Did I overrate Shanna? A re-analysis

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  • Опубликовано: 19 дек 2024
  • Remember that old Pitfalls video I made on Shanna? I got into a discussion on her viability on Reddit that made me rethink her as a unit, and replay FE6 to see how bad her training arc actually is. Here's my conclusions!
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Комментарии • 237

  • @Mekkkah
    @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +17

    My full Shanna training arc can be found here: ruclips.net/p/PLkANSCXtj-wnulVOFlvD6FqPJ9qLrjP1W
    It's only chapters 1 through 7.5, but since Shanna ends up at level 8 it's pretty easy to see she can reach level 10 in the easy part of Ch7 and the whole of Ch8.

    • @DD151
      @DD151 8 месяцев назад +11

      I like how there's a Shanna chapter 1
      Mistake??? or PSYOP HMMM checkmate elitists there's no coming back from this

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +2

      @@DD151it's full transparency!

  • @UsualHRS
    @UsualHRS 8 месяцев назад +274

    You can't fall into a pitfall with Shanna. She has a flying horse

    • @Zakuzelo
      @Zakuzelo 8 месяцев назад

      Checkmate, atheists.

  • @TheMadRedHatter
    @TheMadRedHatter 8 месяцев назад +256

    Me arising from my 2,000 year slumber to bring up Thea’s 40% strength growth and reignite the ancient conflict before returning to the crypt from whence I came.

    • @shine-ub6eb
      @shine-ub6eb 8 месяцев назад +13

      The unsong hero

    • @Luigiofthegods
      @Luigiofthegods 8 месяцев назад +21

      Me blessing fortune upon the stationary enemies near the boss in 12x for getting three-rounded by Thea's javelins and supplying her an entire level worth of EXP at no risk

    • @MrCactuar13
      @MrCactuar13 8 месяцев назад +8

      @@Luigiofthegods Yeah I think Thea's training arc is a bit overstated. Depending on their stat rolls, she can 1 round some cav reinforcements with the horse slayer, or team up to take down the promoted pally for more juicy EXP. And while gaiden chapters are very slow and boring, they're also filled with relatively weak enemies that are perfect for bringing up any training projects.

    • @Luigiofthegods
      @Luigiofthegods 8 месяцев назад +5

      @@MrCactuar13 I think it ends even earlier than that, since she has plenty of opportunities in 12 and 12x. Yes, she has to fight axebros without an Axereaver, but with a Slim Lance she still doubles them with ~75 hit, and it's easy to weaken them for her with other units because of how beefy they are. Yes, she has to deal with a lot of Archers, but it's not exactly impossible to kill an enemy type you're weak to (and if you're me and like her enough to give her the second Angelic Robe, she doesn't even get one-shot by the Steel Bow guys). There are also just a lot of Thieves in 12x that she can snack on and get EXP that way

    • @Kryptnyt
      @Kryptnyt 8 месяцев назад +4

      @@MrCactuar13 I definitely remember missing a cav with a horseslayer and getting crit killed in response on the bridge chapter

  • @BTypeHStyle
    @BTypeHStyle 8 месяцев назад +146

    This 97 year old youtuber still argues on Fire Emblem boards the old-fashioned way.

  • @2tehnik
    @2tehnik 8 месяцев назад +85

    > then reap the rewards for the next four maps like the Dread isle arc.
    Fe7 constitutes so much of Mekkah's life that it even seeps into an fe6 video.

    • @TheRameniSBuRNT
      @TheRameniSBuRNT 8 месяцев назад +16

      he says it again here lol: 13:09

    • @Zakuzelo
      @Zakuzelo 8 месяцев назад +13

      "S-stupid FE7, it's not like I LIKE you or anything!"

  • @aggressivelymediocre350
    @aggressivelymediocre350 8 месяцев назад +91

    You don’t train Shanna because she’s a fantastic combat unit. You train her so you can use Sin without going to Sacae

  • @swiftbuizel
    @swiftbuizel 8 месяцев назад +46

    The person on reddit ragging on trained Shanna having similar combat to Marcus is funny considering base Marcus is still like a top 5 deploy for the Western Isle. Trained Shanna is awesome but it is a drag to get her to promotion. Setting up kills is generally pretty simple in fe6 but it sucks having to rely on like a 70% hit rate with the iron lance for them. To go back to the Lance (the character) comparison, even if the stat difference is minimal, Lance still has a major advantage in being able to use swords. I find that in my most recent fe6 playthroughs, my Shanna is level 7 by chapter 8, and after spoon feeding her on that map, she can promote by 8x. Overall I think its worth the training, but there are obvious downsides to training her in chapters 2-8 that warrant this conversation.

    • @jemolk8945
      @jemolk8945 8 месяцев назад +15

      It's a better argument than you're giving it credit for. If Shanna catches up to Marcus just in time for Marcus to start falling off, and never really surpasses him, that's a pretty weak payoff for a lot of effort. It's not _no_ payoff, like me insisting on training Sophia is, but it's still less than the effort involved in getting her kills, largely because it doesn't even last very long.

    • @MrCactuar13
      @MrCactuar13 8 месяцев назад +2

      It's also quite the understatement considering that, since she'll be doubling most enemies, trained Shanna literally fights like 2 Marcuses.

    • @AlexT7916
      @AlexT7916 8 месяцев назад +1

      ​​@@MrCactuar13no she won't, if she on average has similar stats to base Marcus then she'll fight just as well as he is, hell she might be worse than hin at doubling due to having lower CON

    • @MrCactuar13
      @MrCactuar13 8 месяцев назад +10

      @@AlexT7916 Assuming she has 19 speed, she'll still have 14 AS when using a Silver Lance or Steel Sword. Marcus would need to gain 3 speed to match that, so assuming you have a level 9-12 Marcus by Chapter 9 then that's just not gonna be the case. And since Shanna is mostly using swords throughout the Western Isles anyway, she's not gonna be weighed down and will be fighting with her full 19 AS with Iron Swords.

  • @Chaotixs11
    @Chaotixs11 8 месяцев назад +37

    I think the whole route split thing is understated in importance. If you want to train Shin(and there is good reason to want to do that): training Shanna is a no-brainer. Illia is just that much easier than Sacae, and that's compounded extra by how well Shin performs in Illia.
    Then she's a solid utility unit in her own right which is pretty snazzy. In terms of pure pragmatics, I think early EXP and deployment slots are cheap enough that training Shanna is purely the right thing to do. The only real cost is the mental effort of feeding her kills, which can't be measured. So it's entirely personal preference if you think she's worth the headache.

  • @electricvgc3146
    @electricvgc3146 8 месяцев назад +49

    if i had a nickel for every time mekkah called the western isles the dread isle i would have a lot more than two nickels

    • @bvd_vlvd
      @bvd_vlvd 8 месяцев назад

      I scrolled to comments for this. Like, am I living in a Mandela effect?

    • @butteredsalmonella
      @butteredsalmonella 8 месяцев назад +14

      This is a message from Lord Arcardo, I await you on the Western Isle.

  • @isuckatgaming1873
    @isuckatgaming1873 8 месяцев назад +94

    You bring up milady in the comparison, but you gotta remember that milady cannot rescue the promoted cavs or majority of slightly heavy grounded units
    Shannas lower con means that she can rescue more people than milady, even after promotion

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад +1

      That doesn't matter lol

    • @isuckatgaming1873
      @isuckatgaming1873 8 месяцев назад +10

      @@mysmallnoman it doesn't matter for you, but remember, different people play differently. It comes up quite a bit for many other people, including myself.
      Common examples are trying to fly percival over the forests and rivers in chapter 18 illia route, or dual warping in chapter 21 by having a flier Carry percival, where they then proceed to handle combat in the south and take pressure off the north. Miledy is the only flier who cannot do this, in fact, she cannot do so with the majority of combat carries in the game. She cannot rescue dieck if he is in danger, cannot rescue any warrior nor berserker, heck, even if you're playing less efficiently and using goofy units like wendy, miledy cannot rescue wendy. As such, for people who play high efficiency or people who like their units to have the utility of a Swiss army knife, shanna is more valuable.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@isuckatgaming1873 this is extremely a nothing burger of a point, and it's not because " it's not my preferred play style bro " it's just not that useful
      " She can't rescue people like the warrior and Berserks and Wendy around " do you even hear yourself

    • @isuckatgaming1873
      @isuckatgaming1873 8 месяцев назад +9

      @@mysmallnoman you claim it's "a nothing burger of a point" and that its "not that useful" but you provide no proof of why it's not useful. I provided 2 examples that play into high efficiency ganeplay (and thus, indisputably factor into the rankings of units) and multiple examples of how it is useful for casual play by showcasing units that a casual player may use that cannot be rescued by miledy.
      Instead, you choose to attempt to bring me down, as if you are above me and making fun of me. I ask you to be a better person in the future, as this community does not need any more toxicity than it already deals with.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      @@isuckatgaming1873 because your examples aren't useful
      Why would you use a unit like wendy lol, it's hard to take your argument seriously when you say shit like " Miledy can't rescue units like Wendy " like it matters ever
      As for ch21 example you don't specifically need Percival to defeat the enemies, you can use other strong units you have

  • @MrEntinen
    @MrEntinen 8 месяцев назад +22

    As the biggest Lot enjoyer in the universe, saying he is better than Shanna is ridiculous

    • @cerealbeforemilk3566
      @cerealbeforemilk3566 8 месяцев назад

      Lot enjoyer? What a chad

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  7 месяцев назад +2

      lotke

    • @prismaticpaul
      @prismaticpaul 5 месяцев назад

      I use lot often too (a lot), bonus points for having support with Shanna.
      That being said he can run into strength issues which is unusual for a fighter... so in case that happens I save an energy ring.
      Lot is nowhere near as good as her tho, even if he had stats and growths like fe7 geitz that wouldn't change the fact that he can't fly and doesn't have a horse. Nor can he climb peaks but that's less of an issue. Generally I promote Lot at lv15 or after because any stats he can get are going to help out tremendously, despite the juicy warrior promo bonuses.

  • @Klaire_Fluffle
    @Klaire_Fluffle 8 месяцев назад +29

    I know this video is about a standard Hard playthrough, but seeing her in a draft race setting really opened my eyes to how good her utility is. Straight up she's the best unit on Normal; Hard not quite but she's still really good.

    • @merlinthetuna
      @merlinthetuna 8 месяцев назад

      Which draft race was that, out of curiosity? Part of my Shanna Bad-brainedness comes from Dondon's 4-way draft against himself. That was on normal mode and included some comments about "Shanna is no longer the carry, Roy is the carry now." Which was a real moment of: oh, this dubious early game combatant is also a dubious late game combatant? And people S rank her, on hard?
      FWIW I do like her flier utility and rank her around Chad, similar to Mekkah's placement. But I don't think there's a strategic role in investing in her aside from having not-much-else to do with the early whip.

    • @cartooncritic7045
      @cartooncritic7045 8 месяцев назад +3

      @@merlinthetuna Keep in mind that same Draft demo had Team Miledy in by far the least generous position and she came in last place despite her generally being seen as a Top 3 unit at minimum on Hard Mode Tier Lists.

    • @skyeschlueter9877
      @skyeschlueter9877 8 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@merlinthetunathe commenter was originally one of the people who was going to be involved in the FE6 draft race but had to drop out. She very likely did a large amount of prep work and research for the draft race even if she didn't end up participating, so her statement on the topic probably comes from personal experience.

  • @Irysan
    @Irysan 8 месяцев назад +5

    I think bare minimum everyone should be trying to train her earlygame in case they get lucky and get some good strength levels on her because she is pretty much just better than other training targets if you get that. If you don't get strength levels then I agree with the argument that the strategic effort to train her vs the strategic effort reduction in what you get afterwards is not very clear, but my perspective in rating units has never really factored in how much less strategic effort the player is expected to put in to get results; it feels like a lazy vague argument to say that it's too much "effort", when we can quantify how reliable or unreliable a strategy is, and once a strategy is known then simply copying it doesn't require effort either.

  • @RefaTheGreat
    @RefaTheGreat 8 месяцев назад +14

    It's definitely worth bringing up that unlike most of your training projects early on, Shanna has literally (...almost literally) no competition for her promotion item; you get so many Elysian Whips in quick succession during the Western Isles that you'll be able to promote 2 out of Tate/Milady/Zeiss whenever you need them. I'd put her above Alan/Lance who also peak around the same time as she does but with less unique contributions (and you could always have a bad Alan/Lance in the form of Noah if you want), making her better overall. I'm assuming supports aren't taken into account though, because the Roy/Alan/Lance support triangle is actually insane.

  • @scalarmotion
    @scalarmotion 8 месяцев назад +3

    "Training Shanna was a psi-op" was a psi-op

  • @chandlerholloway2047
    @chandlerholloway2047 8 месяцев назад +7

    Honestly the mere fact that Shanna is your only flier for...what, 10 chapters? 'Cause that's when you get Tate? That and the fact that you want to go to Ilia over Sacae always is enough to convince me that she's worth training. You don't even have to slow down very much to do it, if you even need to slow down at all. I also think FE6's deployment limits are generous enough to keep deploying her up to about the time you get Percival and if, finally after 20 or so chapters, it's time for her to retire for better units that can use legendary weapons better than she can? Fine. Retire undefeated. She's the second best flier in the game when you take into account availability, combat, and utility, as well as cost of investment. The cost of using her is practically zero - you don't even need to give her stat boosters for her to do fine.
    Anyway I could rant more, but this is turning into a novella, so. Great video! Much love.

  • @PeevedLatias
    @PeevedLatias 8 месяцев назад +12

    I once did a draft where I used Shanna from the start to the end of the game where she did not get a single point of strength for the entire playthrough and she was still very usable. She's fine. She's not necessarily S tier, but she's also far from C tier trash.

  • @glowstickofdestiny1290
    @glowstickofdestiny1290 8 месяцев назад +15

    I think a lot of discussions like this throughout the community (and the internet in general) go through a sort of pendulum effect, where our efforts to push back on an idea we think is wrong lead to us overcorrecting for a while before finally evening out.
    Same sort of thing Ocarina of Time or FF7 went through, where they were overhyped as the perfect pinnacles of video games until some got sick enough of hearing it that they started unfairly hating on the games, before it all seems to have settled just as a matter of time.
    Maybe it's because we think a more nuanced and less extreme take won't shake things up as much as we want, maybe it's something else, who knows?
    Anyway, Shanna: Yeah she's definitely good, but even being midway through Normal so that I can even gain access to Hard mode, I've found that more for the sake of Rescue's flexibility. She might be better off for combat if her low Strength was offset by the ranks for early access to better weapons (like WLv-era Caeda), but as-is she spends an unfortunate amount of time stuck with weak weapons that barely damage or heavy ones that nuke her most notable combat stat IMO.

  • @dbylamn
    @dbylamn 8 месяцев назад +12

    All FE6 units are overrated except for Bors, he's the best unit in the game of course

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +6

      you mean Lyn

  • @Hiiyapow
    @Hiiyapow 8 месяцев назад +9

    Really good video tbh. Definitely interesting to see you go back and have a look over your old analysis. Respect both for saying the parts where you think you missed something or where you think your opinion is still correct.
    I find that early pegs in general are really interesting to analyze as they tend to get both underrated and overrated depending on what standard people use to judge the game. Someone who doesn't mind the issues you mentioned with regards to reliability and ease of use and instead is focused just on getting the turn number lower will think she's amazing, while someone who highly values a unit that is consistent, easy to use and reliable in all contexts might have a more average opinion of her.
    As someone who hasn't played FE6 that many times (so looking in as a relatively outside observer), your tier list placement seems fair and well reasoned. Despite her weak early combat, those early maps look to have enough exclusive utility to make her useful, and she also has a strong performance in the western isles. Just looking through fe6 map pool really makes you notice how many times there are to use fliers as well. But how bad her early combat is (especially on hard mode- I'm imagining she gets much better on NM), can't be ignored.

  • @cartooncritic7045
    @cartooncritic7045 8 месяцев назад +24

    I understand that most FE6 unit discussion assumes Hard Mode LTCs, but Shanna I think is a unit who benefits a lot from Normal Mode and Supports, as a B Support with Roy can seriously make up any Strength deficiencies she might have early on.

  • @lagspike7763
    @lagspike7763 8 месяцев назад +45

    That whole fates tier list series was a psy op of Zoran trying to see how much he could get away with

    • @shiina4826
      @shiina4826 8 месяцев назад

      tell em

    • @thomastrautman5855
      @thomastrautman5855 8 месяцев назад +5

      Yeah I felt like Mekkah deferred a lot there and didn't challenge much

    • @cartooncritic7045
      @cartooncritic7045 8 месяцев назад +6

      @@thomastrautman5855Mekkah's done that with every single Tier List Review video he's ever done.

    • @cartooncritic7045
      @cartooncritic7045 8 месяцев назад +5

      LagSpike I'm sorry that Leo and Peri weren't Top 2 of the tier list but you gotta let it go, man.

    • @lagspike7763
      @lagspike7763 8 месяцев назад

      @@cartooncritic7045 That Ophelia placement is a travesty

  • @Tuffkid42
    @Tuffkid42 8 месяцев назад +2

    I use the Shanna’s and Vanessa’s of FE so much more now than I used to because of your old Shanna video, so if nothing else, I appreciate how this discussion has opened up more options in these games for me

  • @LadyB_20
    @LadyB_20 8 месяцев назад +1

    I love this! Re-Analyzing characters. Started playing FE 6 on my phone so I don't have to turn on my data when I need to and Chapter 7 haf me in about 10 retsrts already.

  • @SyRose901
    @SyRose901 8 месяцев назад +4

    My experience with Shanna:
    First run, instantly benched in favor of units that are way better at attacking the enemy. Alen hard carried with capped STR and SPD before ch.20 hit. Ultra blessed.
    Second run, I decide to train her just for the shits and giggles and hot damn, she's actually good! Well, now I know who to use next time.
    Third run(now), she's been blessed with good stats overall, will promote at Ch.8 for the sword unlock and 8 move. Learned to rescue chain to carry units much farther, Shanna is almost unbeatable at that.
    A very fringe situation where she cannot rescue a promoted Barthe or Gonzales(not as fringe) could come up, where unpromoted Shin is needed, but literally everyone else, Shanna can carry, which is probably her strongest point.
    Not to mention that with some training or promotion, she can fight alongside you. She is also Ilian, so level her up more than the nomads for the Ilia chapters, which people seem to find much easier. I just happen to be Mongolian, so I go to Sacae just to see my home nation be represented... as an enemy. Lol. Oh well. At least they're cunning as fuck with the ambushes.

  • @runaway74
    @runaway74 8 месяцев назад +1

    I love this format so much. I'm a huge sucker for unit analysis

  • @oscarcapac1786
    @oscarcapac1786 8 месяцев назад +10

    Hey Mekkah ! I'm the person who argued with you on Reddit about Shanna ! Thanks a lot for making a follow-up video about this subject, I really appreciate it.
    I agree with everything you said in the video. In the end, it mostly comes down to how much you value flying rescue-drop in the early game, and whether you think an easier western isles arc is worth the added difficulty of training Shanna in Lycia.
    The early game of FE6 is the hardest part of the game, and training a project unit during a difficulty spike is not a good idea in my opinion. But training Shanna does make chapter 11A and 14 way easier, andthose are also a difficult maps, so there is a payoff. It mostly comes down to your playstyle and long term strategy in the end, I will admit that I generally favor unit with strong overall combat that you don't have to worry about in enemy phase, like Dieck, over pegasi in most games.
    About flying utility, I was mostly trying to disprove the "exclusive flier, instant S tier" stance a lot of other people have on Reddit. The fact that several maps in early FE6 have absolutely no terrain means that Shanna's noncombat utilty is more comparable to Chad : useful on some maps, not on others.
    I agree with your final placement in B tier. I would put her below Dieck and Lugh but that's nitpicking. For Lot, I completely agree I'm biased towards this guy, he was really good in my first playthrough. But realistically he gets benched because of the hero crest competition and in that scenario, Shanna contributes more than him even untrained
    Sacae is a complete walk in the park if you have Nosefera-tank Sophia online, but that's a discussion for another day 😂

  • @ZetoTarken
    @ZetoTarken 8 месяцев назад +7

    Okay you made a lot of points but there's one thing you overlooked. Shanna is very cute.

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +3

      wdym I showed that at 0:00

    • @ZetoTarken
      @ZetoTarken 8 месяцев назад

      @@MekkkahYou said she's very interesting but you never said she's very cute.

  • @krows-love
    @krows-love 8 месяцев назад +14

    A few things you overlooked:
    Melady has worse flier utility her lower aid prevents her from picking up a lot of people shanna can
    The robe debate, shanna is probably the best user of the early robe if your training her, it makes her live stuff like steel bow archers in the western isles and later on after promotion. It also makes training her in 6 and 8 way easier as she lives 2 soldier hits.
    Shanna can use effective weaponry to one round mid game and if you work on her sword rank in western isles she can pick up the wyrmslayer for meladies join or a bit later which she is a pretty good user of as a flier.
    In the event you do go sacae shanna is unironically pretty good as she has the speed to double nomads and swordmasters on pp and on ep you can be cute and do lightbrand/javelin delphi shield not that it one rounds.
    Also shanna silver lance in western isles is nice I guess and shanna vs christmas cavs for early exp is like ehh christmas cavs imo are already 2 "psyop" units it really depends on their level ups their value because their bases and growths are so mid and you can always replace them with noah its honestly not like their combat is even that drastically different and noah has like B swords post promotion too.

    • @MagikarpPower
      @MagikarpPower 8 месяцев назад +2

      I'll second robe use, I gave it to rutger last time and he definitely doesn't need it.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      1) that doesn't matter, it's not like you NEED to rescue units around all the time or something
      2) why would you ever let her get hit by an archer anyway ?
      3) she won't round because she's not strong enough, nvm how there's like only one horseslayer and it only has 16 uses lol, there's also one wyrmslayer in the game before ch19 and it only has 15 uses, by which time other units already used it lol
      4) there won't be enough silver lance uses by the western isles because not only it has 20 uses but also Marcus/zealot already used most of them to deal decent damage to non axe enemies in the early game
      5) " their bases and growths are mid " funny how you say that because while you're not wrong the only advantage she has over them is 12 base spd which is negated by her 4 con.....so lol
      6) noah is much worse than them ( dude has +1 base spd over Lance and +1 base str over Alan and he joins 6 maps later and 6 levels higher ) and his growths are much worse, also his sword rank means nothing because the killing edge and the silver sword is pretty much Rutger's lol

    • @krows-love
      @krows-love 8 месяцев назад +5

      @@mysmallnoman
      1) rescue is good, like ch14 and 21 are all about rescue and even outside of that it gives more flexibility sorry your not like utilizing it well?
      2) because like shanna handles every other enemy in the western isles so living an archer allows more ep flexibility and also allows more rescue flexibility on maps like 11a and 12, also allows her to live ballista which again is more flexibility for rescue/combat.
      3) no one in fe6 aside from like percival melady and rutger 1 round, shanna is a better user of effective weapons than most of the army because she can actually double the targets like horseslayer into enemy paladins and she can actually fight wyverns in the sea of chapter 13 or in the desert in ch14. 15 uses for each is plenty to go around.
      4) you get 40 silver lance uses you will be fine manage your resources better even 10 is good enough for burst combat for shanna.
      5) you get 2 killing edges and rutger can use the wo dao not that he even needs them for non boss enemies and then they are buyable in 12 what is the issue.
      6) noah 10/1 over allen and lance only has less of speed/strength depending on cav and again 2 killing edges and a wo dao.
      7) shanna has the same as lance with iron lance and is faster with slim and has +15% speed over lance. Her bases are fairly comparable the main difference is swords and the fact shanna can fly which is far more useful utility and more worth facilitating than a mediocre cav whos rescue utility is easily replaced.
      You dont seem to be managing your resources very well you get enough of weapons to get what you need from them and most fe6 units need killers to one round anyway so like???

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      @@krows-love 1) i said " it's not like you need to rescue ALL THE TIME or something ", i never said it's not good
      2) or you can just not let her get hit by said balista or said archer lmao
      3) " no one other than Percival Rutger and Miledy one round " other than the fact that this is not true, this isn't an excuse for her awful str
      " Shanna is a better user of effective weapons because she can actually double enemies like with the horseslayer" lol, math time
      10/1 Shanna has 19 spd and 5 con and the horseslayer has 13 wt, so she has 11 AS lol, which is only 2 points faster than base marcus and 2 points slower than average 10/1 Lance, furthermore enemy paladins have 12-13 AS in ch13 so she won't double jack shit with the horseslayer anyway lol
      " She can fight the wyverns" they have +13 def and average 10/1 shanna deals 4 dmg per hit lol, just use Klein/Shin you dummy after you bait the wyvern
      4) " even 10 uses is enough " ok she needs to double to deal any meaningful damage, which means she has basically 5 rounds with it lol, that's so low
      5) " she's faster with slim " yes and that weapon has low damage lol
      " Main difference is sword " them being able to use swords is a huge deal because they have much more reliability against most enemies in the early-mid game ( fighters and brigands ), nvm how some early game maps ( ch2, 4, 5, 7 ) has forests and forts that give them 20% avo and +1/2 def, something shanna can never have
      " Flying is far more useful utility " not in the early game lol
      Ch2 : useless
      Ch3 : useless especially indoors
      Ch4+5 : useless, i made a comment on this video that explains why, go read it
      Ch6+8 : useless for the same reason as ch3
      Ch7 : actually useful because you have so much villages to visit and too much combat ( so most of your units won't be free to visit a village) and Shanna is the only one who can fly over the villages making visiting them way faster, especially since you have reinforcements up your butt
      6) it's not about me not managing my weapons well lol it's about the fact that the silver lance and the killing edge have few uses and will be used a lot unless you want Marcus to deal like 7-8 dmg to an enemy cav in ch4 ( that he's not already doubling btw ) and Rutger to take much longer time taking down ch4+5+6 bosses ( and he already needs to be lucky to land that crit anyway, so you may use more uses than you anticipate since he's promoted yet ), you're not going to use them all the time obviously but they will be close to breaking
      Also you don't need killers to one round in FE6 lol unless if your whole strategy is just relying on critical hits

    • @krows-love
      @krows-love 8 месяцев назад +2

      @@mysmallnoman ok Im gonna hone in on the effective weapons:
      1) if your using 10/1 shanna for combat in rescue mission thats like your own fault lol at I think its 13/3 or 12/3 with the body ring she doubles paladins with the horseslayer which no one else does and is valuable since your pretending that shanna is alone in needing to double to kill with effective weapons. Rescue mission paladins have 41 hp and 10 defense at minimum. You need at lowest roll 18 strength to one hit with horseslayer your strongest lance user by rescue mission allen needs to be 20/1 to do this on minimum roll to double their 10 speed not even ohko. To kill max roll paladins with the horseslayer shanna needs the body ring. No strength levels and 13/6 for average speed which is the only stat she needs a levels for.
      Allen for max roll paladins needs 29 strength which is impossible or needs a body ring and 19 speed which he will get at 20/7. Lance gets this earlier but you still need to level cap cav and get a few promoted levels.
      Meanwhile for wyrmslayer to ohko wyverns with it you need 19 strength for low roll rescue mission wyverns.
      Also fun fact 0% shanna at 10/1 with wyrmslayer always doubles the level 12 wyverns with wyrmslayer for at lowest 18x2 and she doubles the steel lance equipped ones if they dont max roll speed in their range of 10-14 and have steel lance equipped. Shanna with 1 speed level and 2 strength levels always kills ch13 wyverns with the wyrmslayer.
      Her competition in the sea is geese and gonzales who do it easier bc avoid bonus but shanna has to drop in the sea.
      For land no one orkos apart from rutger with killing edge crit (likely) or lancereaver crit (slightly less likely) kills without wyrmslayer or aircalibur and your aircalibur users arent exactly good.
      I literally dont see how shanna is worse than other people with effective weapons/crit reliance. I will admit last time I played fe6 was on like boosted enemy growths so I might be wrong on one rounding but I can 100% tell you shanna vs promoted enemies is usually the same or better than other units not named rutger fir or percival. Theres a reason why fe6 killer weapons and effective weapons are good.

  • @DoTtA1123
    @DoTtA1123 8 месяцев назад +3

    Really good vid. you shouldn't have to worry about the pitfalls series ever losing relevance. if anything, more people who discuss these games and units nowadays need to watch the pitfalls to begin with.

  • @grauenritter9220
    @grauenritter9220 8 месяцев назад +1

    the thing is with Shanna, I like how she can instantly promote with the elysian whip. I really like the marcus drop in ch 5 going the long way because the alternative of dropping someone to block the nomads can be pretty difficult.

  • @mathturtle37
    @mathturtle37 8 месяцев назад +5

    The one time I got really far in FE6... level 14 Shanna still had 4 strength when I got the whip. I decided she wasn't worth promoting and switched to training her sister instead. I realize that I got majorly RNG screwed but it did bias my opinion of her a bit, especially since I was expecting Florina's usual training arc than ends in "I delete all the things". At least I went to Ilia?

    • @cartooncritic7045
      @cartooncritic7045 8 месяцев назад +8

      Florina benefits from being in an easier game with weaker enemies and a tutorial scenario where she joins very early and has a much longer stretch being your only flier and the second-best investment target after the Christmas Cavs.

  • @twigz3214
    @twigz3214 8 месяцев назад +12

    Personally, I don't think you overatted her, I think she is indeed a bit better on Normal than hard but I'd put her as top 3 in the game on Normal and still not below a top 10 unit in Hard. Feel like she falls off more on hard but Killer lances are still a great weapon later on even if her strenght feels a little lacking later. She's easily the best peg knight in the game at least and the only flier who competes with her on hard is Melady who I could see being better on hard but Shanna is close behind with her being around far longer if not above her.

    • @jimjimson6208
      @jimjimson6208 8 месяцев назад +1

      Even considering availability as a metric of judgement I would rank Milady a good bit higher than Shanna to be honest, and this is as someone who loves using Shanna and trains her in every run.

  • @ilovenierreplicant2983
    @ilovenierreplicant2983 8 месяцев назад +3

    I think Shanna for me is a top 5 unit in fe6, I think her combat being just good enough is neat and I think she helps a lot throughout the entire game on hard mode for being a good unit. Sure her strength is always lacking but I think because of her high speed and all that she usually can reach orko thresholds on all the enemy units you want her to kill through the stronger weapons you get throughout fe6. I like using her and I don't ever really struggle finding a use for her if I just use her when she contributes the most, and I have brought her to the end game about every single run of fe6 hm I have done (which is like 6-7 times at this point) and felt pretty happy about it. The only thing I give her is an angelic robe, but I think she is the best candidate for it in the early game because she is a flier and her bulk becomes solid enough afterwards.
    She is my favorite peg knight in the series because I think she highlights a lot of what I enjoy in fe6 unit design, shanna fire emblem u will keep being my go to unit. (i'd have Marcus, rutger, milady, and the dancers above shanna though.)

  • @BerserkerRohan
    @BerserkerRohan 8 месяцев назад +2

    Shanna is my favourite Fire Emblem unit since last playthrough, she was my best unit for a majority of the playthrough. I say she is a good unit on Hard since her flying utility is valuable since you can never complain about having more flying units on FE6's giant maps, I find, but she isn't a required unit to train since her combat isn't so good that you have to train her like Rutger so I agree with putting her in the B tier.
    I remember in the last video that Shanna would probably be considered a top unit on Normal mode and I wonder if that still holds true now.

  • @Neenscrame
    @Neenscrame 8 месяцев назад +3

    The letter her name literally starts with is the tier she should be in smh

  • @daveo311290
    @daveo311290 8 месяцев назад +2

    In my experience, I would put her as high A tier. While I do tend to favour her in the early game, I find that she always snowballs for me, so it's worth it. I usually train Thea as well, and they never disappoint me.

  • @clovermite
    @clovermite 5 месяцев назад

    I'm just starting out my Fire Emblem journey (beat FE7 a few weeks ago and am currently working on FE6) and I find it funny learning that units I immediately latched onto are considered weak by the rest of the community. Oswin was my bro in FE7, I briefly dropped him early, but brought him back after Merlinus got surprise attacked on a map and I kept in my party through the end fight (he was instrumental in killing Ursula by face tanking her bolting spells).
    In FE6, my immediate reaction to Shanna was "Oh shit, it's a Pegasus knight that doesn't die at the slightest attack like Florina, she's gonna be one of my main troops." So I heavily invested in her and don't regret it. Trying to babysit Thea/Tate now is a pain though, but ever since I read about triangle attack it was the number one thing I wanted to do.

  • @otherevan296
    @otherevan296 8 месяцев назад +1

    I never expected to hear a Library of Ruina here of all places. A nice surprise, especially since Tiphereth's theme is my favorite of all the floor themes~
    Anyways, I personally believe Shanna to be worth training. Her flier utility shines in those maps you talked about with all the gaps and terrain. If you promote her before or at the Western Isles, you have a great place to train up sword rank with all the axe pirates. I personally also got a lot of mileage out of Gant's Lance; with good speed levels, the reduction from the weight wasn't that bad, tho similar results can be gained with every other lance unit, of course. All in all, i'll give her an avoid-archers-at-all-costs/10

  • @jackcorrigan8201
    @jackcorrigan8201 8 месяцев назад +1

    personally play ironman style: I usually support Shanna and Roy together, cause it brings good mobility to Roy, it's nice to have that ejector seat from combat, though sometimes she ends up being Roy's personal bodyguard with no other support, while Roy supports with other friend (usually on a horse). Combat is usually mid. She usually picks off kills cause its the safest (unless it's an outlier Shanna level-ups that equals a Marcus). Every now and then my combat is off and she dies early by a bow, or too many attacks. It's an easy slip up that 'll make you go to Sacae cause who doesn't try to get the good ending? Though I'd choose Ilia first, cause Shanna's my go to vs. Sue and Shin. But Sue and Shin are still very fun units haha great game

  • @pksprite6401
    @pksprite6401 8 месяцев назад +4

    Shanna is definitely worth the training. Her bases are tricky, but there’s enough exp to go around and no other unit gives as much of a return on investment as her. Long term her strength can be sus, but honestly, speed is a more important stat for long term combat excellence. Strength can be offset by using higher quality lances or swords that Shanna can reasonably reach, or by supports, speed has no such fix.
    On your list, the absolute lowest you can really put Shanna is top of A, above the Christmas Cavs. Their combat is just not meaningfully different enough in the early game to offset the unique things Shanna brings to the table, and Shanna is 100% more relevant long term than either of them. I’d put her in top 3 though, she just opens up so many strategies both when her niche is purely unique as isn’t. Literally zero competition for promotion is also a thing most units in this game would kill for.
    The whole “is she necessary” thing is weird. No unit is absolutely necessary in this game. But if you remove Shanna from the equation, you lose your one source of flight for nearly half the game.
    Melady’s lower aid also makes her worse at pure flier utility overall. Shanna and Melady really don’t compete for a deployment slot.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      " their combat isn't that better than hers " lol
      Also no the only stronger lances she can use are steel ones, which suck and silver ones which are already used by Marcus/Zealot in the early game and barely have any uses, so she's literally stuck with iron lances until ch17

    • @pksprite6401
      @pksprite6401 8 месяцев назад

      @@mysmallnoman I did not say “their combat isnt better than hers”, I said that their isn’t a meaningful enough difference in their combat to justify them being placed a tier apart. They really aren’t that far apart. Early on they feel better due to swords, but due to how similar their bases are, they are both liable to their stats tapering off in the long term as well, and unlike Shanna, cannot leverage the unique role of flight or overkill speed to make up for it.
      I rarely see the need to use the silver lance even once with the Paladins in the early game, so Shanna can easily rock with Silver Lances. Her flight makes her a better user of them anyways. Even besides that, she rocks with the Killer Lance, Horseslayer, or even some swords like the Wyrmslayer or Armorslayer.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      @@pksprite6401 1) being able to use swords is actually a massive deal when you fight tons of axe users lol, overkill speed isn't an advantage when you remember she has literally 6 points of con lower ( for example, 10/1 lance has 14 AS with an silver lance, while 10/1 Shanna has 14 AS with it too
      " I rarely see any need for the paladins to use the silver lance " yeah man i also like Marcus dealing 7-8 dmg to a 30 hp enemy cav that he can't double instead of dealing over half of his health with a sliver lance instead!!
      Also most of what you fight in the western isles are axe users, the silver lance isn't much for you there
      " She can use the wyrmslayer " she needs 100 wexp for that and if you're planning to use the silver lance as you said you would get a C rank even slower lol
      " She rocks with the killer lance and horse slayer " anyone is good with any killer weapon ( as long as they're good unit ), and the horseslayer has like 13 wt and slows her down by 8 points lol

    • @pksprite6401
      @pksprite6401 8 месяцев назад

      @@mysmallnoman 1) indeed swords are a massive deal, but Alen and Lance’s base stats are also not spectacular or anything. They’re more useful against the common axe users which can help them snowball, but it’s not like they’re really self-sufficient either for a while anyways. Other than that, there’s plenty of non-axe user enemies. Shanna can still contribute in a useful way during her training period, not having swords in the early game is far from a damning fate. And this is purely looking at her from a combat perspective.
      The overkill speed is more of a long term thing and value proposition. It definitely matters long term, as doubling thresholds grow. Con can be avoided and shifted around, speed cannot.
      2) Get good I guess lol 🤷‍♂️. Chapter 4 is hard but the last few times I play I haven’t used Marcus’s Silver Lance once. He’s better off with axes there anyways (Halberd gaming). And even if you do use the Silver Lance in the early game, I think it’s ridiculous to say it’s unreasonable to have any uses left of it for the mid game (plus you get a second one with Chad in chapter 6 iirc).
      3) Shanna conveniently uses swords :). But that aside, there are still plenty of threatening units in the Western Isles who don’t use axes. The Cavalier reinforcements in the village 10A/11B come to mind (though tbf Shanna and others can function well there with the Horseslayer), but there are still Shamans, Archers, and Mercenaries to dent. Besides, she can keep doing this beyond the mid-game as well. By then it’s basically her property, right? Zelot and Marcus have fallen off, Melady and Thea can’t use it for a while, and Alen and Lance kind of struggle with achieving weapon ranks.
      3) Genuinely easy to get on chapter 9 and surrounding chapters with how crazily well she does with swords. Wyrmslayer might be a bit ambitious but tbf she has a lot of time to reach that level before dragons and wyverns start showing up aplenty. Armorslayer and Steel Sword are more attainable, though, and she does quite well with those.
      4) It is not uncommon for her to still be able to double stuff with the Horseslayer, especially thanks to the her speed. Other than that, I’d say Shanna is a uniquely good user of both the Horseslayer and especially the Killer Lance thanks to her speed and flight. Reliable doubling, full mobility, and the ability to crit twice? Oh baby.

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      @@pksprite6401 there's so much load of crap here i don't know where to begin
      But my favorite thing is you saying " Miledy and Tate can't use it for a while "
      Ah yes It's not like the horseslayer is D rank and Miledy/tate already don't have C/D ranks respectively!!

  • @derrosenkavalier8890
    @derrosenkavalier8890 8 месяцев назад +1

    I'd train Shanna just so I never have to go to Sacae, even if her stats and growths were actually bad.

  • @EdwardoFE
    @EdwardoFE 8 месяцев назад +1

    I like how the Shanna debate has gone back and forth for years and will continue to go back and forth because its a great question.
    I'm still of the opinion that "shanna good because sacae bad".

  • @johan662
    @johan662 8 месяцев назад +21

    No you didn't. You were right the first time. Us FE6 players are starting to see her as the best unit in the game above Miledy at high level play. I'll watch the video now

    • @shiina4826
      @shiina4826 8 месяцев назад +2

      interesting

    • @johan662
      @johan662 8 месяцев назад +13

      @@shiina4826 You know how Typhoon Carter said that Marcia is better than Titania in FE9 LTCs? It's kind of like that, Where in casual play Miledy is better bc most casual players won't know what to do with Thani in their first playthrough but once you get to high level play such as efficiency or LTCs Shanna has a lot of turn saves.
      I myself find FE6 LTCs very interesting as it changes the meta of what you thought was FE6 originally. Rutger isn't even top 10 in efficient play. It's a tough pill I had to swallow too.

    • @shadownite3378
      @shadownite3378 8 месяцев назад +5

      When you say "high level play" are we talkin ltc? Cause if so as Mekkah pointed out we're more so judging her in the context of a more casual playthrough. I myself judge units in a more ironman context. For the record I agree with you Shanna is hella good and I rank her as top 5 in the game but ltc isn't the only context that matters for ranking units.

    • @johan662
      @johan662 8 месяцев назад +3

      @@shadownite3378 yeah LTCs I just finished the video so I was just assuming that he was talking about High level play as he usually does. This time he purposefully went more towards casual play and also in the mind of those people he talked to on reddit.
      As you what you said about how to judge units. I just make different tier lists for each game for each context of play. Casual play, efficiency/ltcs, and speedrunning all have different tier lists. So Rutger in Casual play is top3 or top 5 and in efficiency is not even in top 10.

    • @MagikarpPower
      @MagikarpPower 8 месяцев назад

      ​@@johan662i don't know much about fe6 LTC other than rutger isnt used but I do think he's massively overrated in HM. he feels really good to use and he does have a solid niche. I would keep him in S tier just bc of that. however, he's a win more character IMO; by the time you need him somewhere marcus/zealot/miledy/alance have already done his job. no 2 range and unreliable crits narrow his niche a great deal. boss killing is also not nearly as tricky as ppl make it out to be, tho he's still nice to have for mage bosses.
      i way prefer to give exp to other units bc stats aren't his issue, its his lack of 2 range, relatively low movement, lance weakness, and crit rate that can have him suffering from success as a wall.

  • @GiantFrog
    @GiantFrog 8 месяцев назад

    I train every pegasus knight I get because I love them. It was cool using triangle attacks for an actual benefit for the first time in fe6. Either they don't happen in other games or you have to engineer them when you could have just done anything else anyway.

  • @acephilosopher9186
    @acephilosopher9186 7 месяцев назад

    I trained her on Mekkah’s recommendation, but I agree that you do have to kinda go out of your way in early maps to feed her kills, making those maps a little harder than they otherwise would be. In exchange, you make future maps easier than they otherwise would be. So things seem roughly equal either way…She’s not a “no-brainer” but just one of those units that creates a juncture of what kind of play-through you’ll experience. But because of the Ilia/Sacae argument, I think it’s more pragmatic to train her-that’s not to say that Ilia makes her a good unit, but that Ilia does make it worth training her.

  • @machoria4034
    @machoria4034 8 месяцев назад +1

    I'm always training flyers tbh. rescuing from spots where your other units can't be is so huge. The only thing that sucks is the low con on pegasus knights. I always used shanna when I played FE6

  • @memoryunlimit6591
    @memoryunlimit6591 7 месяцев назад

    I play FE6 for the first time right now and Shanna is one of my best units. She got really lucky level ups that she consistently hits hard and avoids attacks. Even when I mess up and do not notice an archer or ballista, she just dodges their attacks. She is great

  • @Nico-xc3rg
    @Nico-xc3rg 8 месяцев назад +2

    Library of Ruina music goes so crazy

  • @wazzledog1007
    @wazzledog1007 8 месяцев назад

    I have only played fe6 normal blind. I like Shanna, but ended up not deploying her past the mid game. A large portion of why is because I made the decision to funnel kills into Roy and Lillina. And used Lillina's nuking power to boss kill fairly soon after. With all that exp spent suboptimally, I really ended up relying on the core of units who have exceptional combat and utility at base.

  • @samu1414
    @samu1414 8 месяцев назад +1

    I think Shanna is very good. First if all, near perfect availability is incredibly good. Secondly, while I do think Flight isn't incredible early game outside of what you mentioned, it's still good, and so is 7 move rescue Canto. Her Western Isle niche is her at her peak, and the more you use her the more flexible you can be with Shin unless you want to go to Sacae. She has zero competition for the promotion she gets (outside of a pair of boots lol) and she can take more of a backseat when the Western Isle come around to focus on ferrying people around and give kills to maybe other carry units like Gonzalez, Fir or Shin. Milady, as you said has the best combat in the game, and so it's better to have her on the front lines for it, meanwhile Shanna can actually still operate in that niche. There's also just so many maps where you want flight, 14x, most of the Ilia maps have dense mountains, 21, 23. Is her combat steller? No, but you constantly have access to 8 movement canter, arguably the most valuable trait in Gba Fe. Training her gets you one extra movement, which isn't huge but is nice, and some combat utility. Also who else are you training early game? Most training projects don't have enough promotion items to justify using more then one of their archetype. Usually you can only afford on trained cav unless you want to struggle with 2 until 15 when you have two other Paladin. There's only 1 Hero Crest since the first one is going to Rutger. Her resource is completely uncontested. I don't think there's a great reason not to train Shanna personally

    • @cerealbeforemilk3566
      @cerealbeforemilk3566 8 месяцев назад

      That is a very good point. Training shana is a good idea, since even if she doesn't turn out amazing, you don't lose anything by doing so. Who else is competing with that exp in the early game?

  • @frostbitex23
    @frostbitex23 8 месяцев назад

    I ping-pong between the A and B-tier depending on how her stats are cooperating for the current run.
    I personally enjoy bringing Shanna along my FE6 runs as she is my favorite among the GBA Pegasus Knights. Rescuing or flier utility aside, watching her dodgetank like a madman if leveled up is just so funny to watch.

  • @watercrystals9744
    @watercrystals9744 8 месяцев назад +4

    imo one big point in thany's favor imo is that her promotion item is completely uncontested
    people can say allance, deke, the fighters or whoever else are better deployment slots than she is early in the game but at the end of the day, thany will be an 8 mov unit that bypasses terrain no matter what if she's trained whereas early promo someone like deke has direct competition with rutger and will give you a considerably harder experience against some bosses like henning or god forbid scott with his 60% crit rate while sitting on a throne (yeah he has a hand axe but you're still giving him a free turn to potentially crit someone to bait him into using it)

  • @shiina4826
    @shiina4826 8 месяцев назад +5

    no we love shanna mekkah

  • @Itzpapa
    @Itzpapa 8 месяцев назад +5

    I read this as Tana, and i rushed in here with my pitchfork and torch! No alarm! Take my like and view instead!

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +6

      Tana is way more fun to use than Shanna haha

    • @hajoeijgenraam295
      @hajoeijgenraam295 8 месяцев назад

      @@Mekkkah I've played a fair amount of sacred stones ironmans with increased enemy growths. There is no unit barring seth that so consistently becomes a one man army in my experience. She's not just a flier, she's not just a giant ball of stats, she is both. And that is extremely valuable in such a playthrough.

    • @IschmarVI
      @IschmarVI 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@hajoeijgenraam295 but she does need training. I guess, that kinda makes her a "flying est seth", lol.

  • @tesnacloud
    @tesnacloud 8 месяцев назад

    I think there is one aspect to her that you don't bring up enough. Shanna can sit on terrain that renders her immune to attack, and then skirmish in for kills and support any front where you are having unexpected problems. In the early game, that can be great for taking the pressure off of a bad luck miss by one of your main combat units. Of course, you need to be careful when doing that, but it is still valuable for increasing the survival rates of your army.

  • @mouthwateringpe
    @mouthwateringpe 8 месяцев назад

    You ranked her pretty fairly, I’d personally even put her above Niime. Great video ❤

  • @AscendedBagels
    @AscendedBagels 8 месяцев назад +1

    I give Shanna the chapter four angelic robe, this allows me to pretty easily get her to level 15+ before promoting usually. Last time she got a lucky with strength level ups (+3 I think?) and she pretty much carried for the whole game. She was about average in everything else I think.
    Now, is this favoritism? Yes, but I can't think of anyone else I'd want to put the angelic robe on anyways. Maybe Roy, but I'd rather he just not see combat after the midgame for the most part until he promotes anyways.

  • @quinnlee-miller9792
    @quinnlee-miller9792 2 месяца назад

    Here's the thing
    I use Shanna because she feels good to use. She's fast, accurate, flies, she's cute, and supports Dieck and Lot

  • @graemetang4173
    @graemetang4173 8 месяцев назад +1

    Calling her better than Rutger is Gordon Ramsay levels of cooking

  • @kwagar9810
    @kwagar9810 8 месяцев назад +1

    I will not tolerate Shanna slander

  • @manolito.7zip
    @manolito.7zip 8 месяцев назад +1

    Honestly I might be higher on Shanna's combat, early availability means high weapon ranks and access to reliable silver lance doubling is great even with her poor strength taken into account

  • @aclashoffireandice4084
    @aclashoffireandice4084 8 месяцев назад +1

    You know, I actually had this argument myself not long ago. I think where you put Shanna is pretty fair - I could only think of 9 units I'd rate above her, but thinking about her contributions vs. Niime's ridiculous warping once she exists, I think they're probably roughly equivalent. I'm a little surprised Clarine is up there, but I can see it.
    She's still way better than Thea, though. Thea's pretty bad.

  • @Funami2006
    @Funami2006 7 месяцев назад

    So I know people don’t take how I tend to play into consideration because of how inherently inefficient it tends to be but I am going to say this anyway.
    I have a nasty habit of overtraining the hell out of my units through any means necessary. For Shanna, that means I arena abuse her to about level 19.5 and let the following chapter get her to 20 by the time she opens the Elysium Whip chest to promote on the spot. This gives me all the utility of early promotion on top of the easier late game benefits of having a higher Illya weight. I then proceed to do the same for her sister on her join chapter and end up with two lv 20 promoted Falco Knights that can work together to achieve goals. I then do it once more with Miledy. Just in time to have two lv 20 promoted falco knights and one lv 20 promoted Wyvern Lord for the desert map.
    Why do I do this?
    I hate the desert map so much. I find it better to have potentially three strong flyers around on that map to help ferry other people around and do some carnage on the map itself.
    This is admittedly time consuming on its own but damn is it satisfying to have three good flyers around. Yeah Shanna is typically not as strong as the other two would end up being by the end but by that point she’s fulfilled her purpose for me and she can take a lovely vacation.

  • @jierdareisa4313
    @jierdareisa4313 8 месяцев назад

    I love ALL Mekkah videos!!!! ❤

  • @davidcole2913
    @davidcole2913 8 месяцев назад +5

    She is the early joining flyer in a GBA fire Emblem. She should be trained. If her stats are average or better you continue using her. If the RNG gods curse her, another flyer takes her place, and she gets relegated to a flying taxi with occasional clean up duty on enemies who survive a round of combat.
    It’s really not complicated.

  • @MrCactuar13
    @MrCactuar13 8 месяцев назад +1

    From my perspective, I just have to ask: Why not train Shanna? The only units she's really competing with for EXP are the xmas cavs. And because the second knight crest is pretty far off from the first, you really don't benefit that much from rushing both ALance to level 10+. Bottom of A tier or top of B tier seems perfectly reasonable to me.

  • @jonahj9519
    @jonahj9519 8 месяцев назад

    I like having a trained Air Force. Ultimately Miledy’s Killer Lance will fail to crit some units, so having a trained Shanna and Thea there to pick up her kills is nice. She’s never a unit I fail to train and I almost always deploy her. I think she’s better than the Christmas Cavs.

  • @jemolk8945
    @jemolk8945 8 месяцев назад +1

    What makes Shanna good isn't her combat. I also think most people are overly afraid of Sacae. Shanna is overrated because Sacae isn't actually that bad (a small number of bosses excepted), and because she can do all the stuff she's actually good at without training. If you want to train a pegasus knight, Thea is just so much better, largely because she can actually fight well when trained, and doesn't absolutely require high rank weapons to be good. And if you're really _that_ concerned about Sacae, just limit your use of Shin. It's not like you're obligated to use Sue much either, so if you rely more heavily on Thea than Shin prior to the route split, you'll still probably go Ilia route.
    I also think saving turns is very much overrated on tier lists and so forth. Reliability is more important than speed, IMHO. The times when Shanna's flight matters are in chapter 9, to reach the villages via rescue-drop, and chapter 10a/11b to get over the walls ahead of schedule. After that, you have a better pegasus knight with Thea, and before that, slowing down relative to the movement boost you can get from a flier isn't a problem. None of those benefits require her to be trained, and I think you get a larger benefit from training your other units instead.
    Now, I'm _not_ saying to not train Shanna. I do silly things like training Sophia on a regular basis, just because I like her character and design. But if what you want is to make the game easier, it's not really worth it. The cost is higher than the benefit IMHO.

  • @KazanmaTheSilverWind
    @KazanmaTheSilverWind 8 месяцев назад +1

    Promoted Shanna's the best unit to act as Douglas bait without someone dying

    • @jemolk8945
      @jemolk8945 8 месяцев назад +1

      Unpromoted Shanna works fine too. Heck, if you just lead him into the forests left of your starting position, anyone with a decent movement lead and/or less movement penalties from terrain can keep him occupied completely trivially. You barely even have to think, at that point. Meanwhile, if you're willing to plan around his positioning just a little more, an unpromoted cavalier can lead Douglas on an indefinite wild goose chase in the castle entranceway without much difficulty. And all this is assuming you're not willing or able to just put him to sleep once you've got him out of position.
      Basically, yes, this is a job promoted Shanna can do, and yes, flight and eight move makes it slightly easier than it would be otherwise, and yes, this frees up your paladins to fight, but you've got access to a lot of tools that can trivialize that particular task almost as much while requiring far less investment, so I wouldn't rate it very highly.

    • @KazanmaTheSilverWind
      @KazanmaTheSilverWind 8 месяцев назад

      @@jemolk8945 That is true. It's not really a selling point in favor of Shanna, since others can do it. Lance doesn't even need a promo to use an iron sword for that job, and someone like Zelot is perfect for the job
      It's just that when I played that chapter fof the first time (not ironman), most of my resets were due to Douglas dying on my steel by attacking someone like my heavily favoritized Lilina. So Shanna made that a cakewalk & i thought it was funny.
      Regular Shanna can do it, but I prefer having WTA for that just to lower chances of getting hit I suppose.
      Personally I like Shanna, but from my first playthrough I wouldn't say she's nearly as good as Rutger, or Melady, or the Jagens (who i have a tendency to bench a bit too early ngl).

    • @jemolk8945
      @jemolk8945 8 месяцев назад +1

      @@KazanmaTheSilverWind Oh, my preferred tactic is to just stay very slightly outside his range. He never even gets to attack. He just chases me around and never catches up.

  • @johan662
    @johan662 8 месяцев назад +1

    Mekkah when is that FE6 Tier list review coming? If you make that video I promise you people will watch it. I will like the video and send the video to everyone. I'll be like Jehovah's Witness except instead of asking people about whether they heard the good news I will ask them if they recently watched peak Fire Emblem content made by Mekkah

  • @SunshineRey
    @SunshineRey 3 месяца назад

    I will say no matter how much people might say Shanna is bad or overrated, I will always get excited at her hitting 7 crits out of 10 hits she did on one map with only a 7 or 8 percent critchance. She held my team together for a few chapters and though I’m still playing through the game, I might bring her to later chapters even just for map objectives solely because of how much of a nice impact her early chapters have affected my run so positively.

  • @mikewazowski7024
    @mikewazowski7024 8 месяцев назад

    Speaking from experience I will always hold the belief that a trained Shanna is supremely useful even in hardmode. Having a second 8-move flier besides Melady that doesn’t get 1HKO’d is just too useful in so many maps.

  • @shadownite3378
    @shadownite3378 8 месяцев назад +2

    Trained Shanna's combat really isn't that much worse compared to the trained christmas cav's for it to matter all that much in my experience. The only thing that really holds her back is her bulk and even then she's one of the best candidates by far for the angelic robe you get in chapter 4, which helps patch up her bulk substantially. The ability to use silver and killer lance's helps a lot once you get her lance rank up. I think she's top 5 or 6 in the game and this is coming from someone who doesn't care about ltc.

    • @krows-love
      @krows-love 8 месяцев назад +1

      Even for bulk lance only has 3-5hp on her for most of the game post promo and allen is 5-7 and maybe 1 defense and some ppl gonna get annoyed but shanna has way more avoid to where she can 0 out enemy hit under certain circumstances

    • @shadownite3378
      @shadownite3378 8 месяцев назад

      @@krows-love I will say however that hp difference does matter a bit, as that is the difference between getting two shot or one shot by certain enemies that otherwise Lance and Allen would be able to take no problem. I agree overall though that her bulk being "bad" is hella overstated

    • @mysmallnoman
      @mysmallnoman 8 месяцев назад

      " in my experience " lol

    • @prototipolq-84i46
      @prototipolq-84i46 7 месяцев назад

      ​@@mysmallnomanyes...

  • @quinnlee-miller9792
    @quinnlee-miller9792 2 месяца назад

    You never brought up how Shanna's insanely low CON lets her rescue drop more people than anyone else!

  • @ZarbtheBard
    @ZarbtheBard 8 месяцев назад

    I think B is a pretty fair spot for her. If nothing else she has utility and availability going for and even without training her, her ability to rescue drop frees up Marcus, Lance, or Sword from having to do that allowing them to potentially do something else. However in my heart, she's an S-tier unit and I always use her.
    ... I should play FE6 again it's been a while.

  • @ignisol47
    @ignisol47 8 месяцев назад +1

    Funny how you called the Western Isles the Dread Isle this entire video

  • @Neonlight3934
    @Neonlight3934 8 месяцев назад +2

    13:50 This is straight up incorrect. Ch12 is a universal map with a Sniper that doesn't move with Magic units behind them. For not talking Klein + Base Thea reliable bases can combine to kill everything in the way to that sniper in the first 2 turns.
    Training Thea is not only easier numerically but in her singular training map is exponencialy easier than Shannas earlygame axe hell and Thea can reach with just this a few extra levels on top of the initial 2 without costing you any real effort.
    Thea is only not competing with better units because the other horses (Noah and Treck) are even worse than her
    Also the western Iles are some of the easiest maps in the game so that pay off isn't even that useful to begin with.

  • @Norysto
    @Norysto 7 месяцев назад

    Counterpoints that I feel were not raised by this video;
    1. Shanna's training takes place in the hardest part of the game where you may want to play safer and not risk Shanna killing herself in the line of combat.
    2. Training Shanna means giving her exp over other units you may want to train up, particularly growth units. Basically, give exp to units whose level ups help them contribute in combat .
    3. Western Isles are actually not hard, especially compared to the previous chapters. Shanna being good in Western Isles combat isn't particularly impressive. I argue against using Shanna in combat during the Western Isles as the chapters, especially the first one, can be used to train up Fir aka Rutger 2.0 or even *gasp your mages (Lilina or Lugh)!
    4. Thea is the superior combat unit hands down. Having fliers is a good idea, so if you want a non Milady flier who can fight, invest in Thea!
    5. Even if I ignore the above points, the tedium of training Shanna doesn't have a big payoff because its only a few chapters before you get other fliers who can serve her function without the annoyance.

  • @theduker5926
    @theduker5926 8 месяцев назад

    I enjoyed this video a lot, and reopening cans of worms lol. My thoughts after playing FE6 around 25 times, I think she is almost always worth training, but not always using the first Elysian whip on her. Feeding her a kill every once in a while isnt that hard and she doesnt have much competition early game for units I really want to level up.
    If she gets good level ups and gets some early str procs, yeah I'm probably going to promote her. Like in your example she had 6 str at lvl 4. Probably on track for me to use it and her being a super relevant combat unit in midgame. But if she hasnt gotten any and shes lvl 7 or 8 (which happens), Im just going to use her for rescue drop utility until Thea comes and use it on her.
    I kinda think about it like Lance and Alan. I'm definitely using both early game and one of them is probably going to get better levels than the other and that will be the one who gets the knight crest.

    • @RIAN10287
      @RIAN10287 8 месяцев назад

      There isn't really any downside in using it on Shanna though? You get an Elysian Whip from Tate's side objective in 10B/11A, and another one in Chapter 12 for Miledy, and Zeiss gets recruited directly at the Secret Shop in Chapter 16 where you can buy one for him on the spot. If anything, Tate would logically be the one who should get her promotion skipped since Pegasus Knight combat falls off right around when she joins anyway and she gets relegated to flier utility which Shanna is already doing just fine.

  • @corey9784
    @corey9784 8 месяцев назад +20

    No you didn't

  • @butteredsalmonella
    @butteredsalmonella 8 месяцев назад +3

    TIL Shanna has the same Str growth as Rutger. Wtf.

  • @08Fist
    @08Fist 8 месяцев назад

    I like using Shanna, but in my experience she doesn't usually wind up a whole lot better statwise than Thea by the time you get her, at least on hard mode, with her main advantage being that training Thea on the couple maps after she joins is pretty difficult, while a trained Shanna can have swords already at that point.

  • @MagikarpPower
    @MagikarpPower 8 месяцев назад +3

    after just beating fe6 HM for the first time, shanna is extremely useful for some tough levels. she's necessary in chapters 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 14, 14x, and doesnt really fall off until you get zeiss. i dont think id give her the #3 spot but shes definitely S tier for how much easier shes made the early game.
    "shanna is a weaker marcus" is a horrible argument. she can fly, cross water, etc. on top of that, axe users cant really hit her with a sword which is huge in the western isles and chapter 14. it doesnt matter what your stats are when the enemy has zero chance to hit. i would always train her just for that.
    of.course, you could just train thea in chapters 12-13. but i dont know to whom youre giving all this experience youre not giving shanna bc rutger doesnt need it, marcus & zealot could use a little bit, sue is fine and the other xmas cav youll want to drop anyway bc you cant promote them. the rest dont have the movement to pick off units like shanna in the early game.
    edit: more on chapter 5. if you go the gate route shanna is indispensible. personally its my favorite part of fe6 and while tricky, I find it way more enjoyable than going the long way around and would be MUCH harder without shanna rescues.
    with regards to your list, I think Shanna is A tier. she's much better than dieck bc he falls off fairly fast as soon as she starts going while already having provided a similar amount of utility. I would love to hear more from the person who rates Rutger relatively low bc I completely agree.

  • @Kryptnyt
    @Kryptnyt 8 месяцев назад

    The game gives you an Elysian Whip pretty early, so it's worth considering that there's opportunity cost in not using her; you're provided with a powerful resource that only she can make use of, and you get more of them when the other fliers are joining. This makes the decision to use her a lot more forceful than for units in other games that have generic promotion items or levelup promotions; the game is practically deciding for you that you use her. It's actually part of why I don't enjoy Binding Blade as much as the other titles in the series, among other reasons. Not a lot of creative freedom here.

  • @macmac8222
    @macmac8222 8 месяцев назад +2

    Based opinion at the end, seeing ppl put shanna above the christmas Cavs drives me nuts. I feel like a lot of Shanna's value is not going to sacae and that's why it's worth to train her even if its a bit difficult bc she wants swords so much.

  • @jedimasterpickle3
    @jedimasterpickle3 8 месяцев назад

    Yeah....I'm gonna abstain. The one time I played FE6 I didn't use any Pegasus Knights or Nomads and somehow got to Ilia anyway.

    • @RIAN10287
      @RIAN10287 8 месяцев назад

      Whether you go to Illa or Sacae is based on which class type gained more experience in the playthrough and if they're equal, you get Ilia by default. The route split isn't optional content like the gaiden chapters, one of the two routes is mandatory no matter what.

    • @jedimasterpickle3
      @jedimasterpickle3 8 месяцев назад

      @@RIAN10287 Figured Ilia had to be the default in that case, yeah. Ngl I might try and go for Sacae in a future playthrough anyway just for variety's sake.

    • @RIAN10287
      @RIAN10287 8 месяцев назад

      @@jedimasterpickle3 You can also control somewhat it by purposefully letting the characters die for the route you don't want to go to, if letting units die doesn't bother you at least. Killing off Shin/Sue is sometimes done by people doing ironman runs, so they force themselves to Ilia for an easier completion.

    • @jedimasterpickle3
      @jedimasterpickle3 8 месяцев назад

      @@RIAN10287 That's...an interesting strat lol. FE6 is wild.

  • @stetstetstitstreats
    @stetstetstitstreats 8 месяцев назад

    this is what big shanna doesn't want you to know

  • @Following1000
    @Following1000 8 месяцев назад

    Of course Shanna is great, all ya gotta do is feed her as many stat boosters as you can buy in the Chapter 21 secret shop and BOOM!
    Max Stat Shanna! NO problem!
    In serious mode, yeah, I still think that Shanna is a help more than a hindrance. Even on Hard Mode, the map design terrain doesn't change, meaning that flier utility is still just as good no matter what.

  • @ryanreyes3085
    @ryanreyes3085 8 месяцев назад

    Shanna is always one of the first to get to level 20 in my runs lol. High speed and luck is so good. Killer Lances / Swords do well enough.

  • @quickpawmaud
    @quickpawmaud 8 месяцев назад

    I get into a lot of arguments about early pegs in GBA specfically and why I think people overrate them. They bring up the stats and use that to argue Shanna is just as bulky and good at combat as Lance for example. I think the stats don't actually matter that much. Swords are important and also something I have never seen anyone besides me bring up being terrain. Flying actually has big downsides in early game especially since you can't use terrain bonuses like forts which are core to my Allance and Franz strategies and why I prefer them over Shanna and Vanessa. I just use the early pegs for utility only then use a later wyvern instead.

  • @ScubaLuigi
    @ScubaLuigi 8 месяцев назад +1

    Personally I find Shanna's availability in the Dread Isle arc of the game to be very poor.

  • @BobbyCorwen42
    @BobbyCorwen42 8 месяцев назад +2

    I still don't understand why we're talking up the early contributions when all the units are freely deployed in the first few chapters. There is no opportunity-cost to anyone there.
    On an unrelated note, flier utility doesn't factor in her stats, so she usually doesn't see much combat at all in my playthroughs, and still does her job just fine without requiring training. In fact I don't remember ever promoting her, and I don't recall wishing I'd trained her up.

  • @renegaderaven3777
    @renegaderaven3777 8 месяцев назад

    I’m rather partial to the early game fliers. I try to use them nearly every time myself.

  • @furyon9816
    @furyon9816 4 месяца назад

    my Shanna had 4 strength at lvl 20. It was a pain to level her

  • @user-pv9pv4xf9c
    @user-pv9pv4xf9c 8 месяцев назад

    Who dares to disrespect Sailor Mercury!?

  • @charsage1036
    @charsage1036 8 месяцев назад

    For me i use shanna and try to get her some levels until i get thea for simple reason i find it annoying and painful to train shanna and base hard mode thea is far easier to train and can actually do decent combat at base especially with the horseslayer and this also means i can give more exp to alen,lance,deick,lugh and rutger.
    All and all from my experience use shanna try to get some levels on her so you can get to ilia easier then have thea take her role later.

  • @miata646
    @miata646 8 месяцев назад

    Where are you posting the full gameplay?

    • @Mekkkah
      @Mekkkah  8 месяцев назад +1

      I forgor to link it, it's in the pinned comment now!

  • @TheEcoolarg
    @TheEcoolarg 8 месяцев назад

    There was a vaike saga? hell yes

  • @movezig5
    @movezig5 8 месяцев назад

    I'm not good enough at Fire Emblem to get very far in FE6 hard mode, so I can't really give an opinion on this.