You all prolly dont give a damn but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can give me.
@Kayden Richard Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and Im in the hacking process atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Great testing kind sir. May I suggest from being in the east where there is a lot of trees, I would like to suggest maintaining a line of sit with the goggles and the quad by elevating more and more as you increase distance. Any trees between you and the quad will mercilessly eat up the signal. No matter what antennas you use, the trees are doing you in! Hope this helps.
Thanks. I will definitly! I just had bad judgement on the height needed to stay LOS all the time. 50m felt really high when I started. Generally you should be 10% of distance in height - this way we can go much further. I didnt trust the autonomous flight of this drone enough to fly higher and further ;)
Great antennas Henrik - thanks for stopping by! Excuse my test failure once again - I'm sure the 7turns would have done very well if I just flew 100 or 150m high.
@@Rcschim thanks! Yes Im sure they would too, the forest seems to have blocked the free line of sight, probably where the mbit is diving as it was solid 25.4mbit to the point were it just drops like crazy. Also that would explain why you did not see an advantage with the 7turn over the 3 turn
Thank you Mario for bring to us another interesting adventure with antennas, old school (helicals/ crosshair) always wins, although new PCB antennas like the Pagoda triple feed, menaceRC and AXI2 HD patches are catching up. I had gd results with pcb biquads (with air gap) and linear dipoles (on air unit).
thank you for doing this gargantuan job that is actually very useful to all of us DJI owners! Now i know what i'll use for everyday vs the long-range days
You're welcome! Not 100% happy with how I tested - especially the fact that I didnt fly high enough... Preparing the next test video atm. Not such a big one, but still with a surprising result ;)
Hallo RCSchim, vielen Dank für das ausführliche Video! Beim Test der 7-Turn Helical ist mir bei 9:27 aufgefallen, dass die Antennen etwas steil nach oben ausgerichtet sind. Vielleicht war das mit Ursache für das schlechte Ergebnis bei den 7turns, neben der fehlenden Höhe? Allein so ein kleiner Faktor kann so viel beeinflussen und ist so leicht zu übersehen. Deshalb weiß ich deine Tests sehr zu schätzen, du bist immer sehr gewissenhaft und gründlich! :-) Weiter so, bitte! ;)
Have you also been doing Euler angle movements with head and body to notice a difference? Also I am impressed how far you get with 25mW. This looks really far with 25mW and beautiful landscape. myself fly between 200(summer) 400 - 800 - 1600mW(winter) with AKK race ranger vtx and fatshark Scout goggles. My maximum distance in ~30meter height is about 1.8km. My rc car (LRP twister) with 25mW vtx (betafpv) has maximum distance about 100meters thats ok.
yes, I kind of did here: ruclips.net/video/OBfRZwrsz0c/видео.html On this test here (the one with waypoints) I messed up the testing because I flew to low to the ground. But I'm motivated to do new tests soon. These days it's become so easy to do proper testing: fly consistant with a copter, have GPS telemetry logged, use the OpenTX Log analyzer site online and get a comparison: GPS Distance vs. DJI Bitrate. So cool, I love it. And I got a few new things to try out. greets, Mario
Hello RC Schim. Thank you for excellent antenna testing. This is really apreciated. Keep up with the good work. We follow you all the time. Best reg. John Lee in Norway.
Thanks for taking the time to say hi! Norway is a beautiful country. Hope we can travel there some time! I love antenna testing. I need more time but already got good idea how to better compare antennas in real flight...
@@Rcschim Hello again. Thank you very much. It is my pleasure to do so, since i understand all the work you put down, in this very interesting field. I am a technican and gründer in many fields and I have built up 5 companies. Working very hard for many decades. I have been working with RF communication and antennas for many years in many RF bands related to different projects. I am 65 years now, so it has been many interesting tasks over many years. I have also been in the RC business for very many years, both in business and has also been my hobby. A fantastic hobby out in our beautiful nature. Now, i enjoy many off the DJI drones, iFlight drones etc ... So much interesting happening now in these days regarding RF and especially up in the Ghz bands as can give us really interesting projects. Also in the battery field as now finally is more or less exploding with very interesting products as we benefit from. I wish you all the best! Yes, thank you, Norway is a fantastic nice country. Have a nice evening. Best reg. John Lee - Norway.
SRT files are really a nice option on DJI - the converter is really simple but effective. Make sure to also use the XLSM file I provide - so you can import a lot of SRTs at once and compare them easy in the XLS sheet. And I'm right now working on the next test ;)
Hi Mario, thanks for the SRT converters, I tested all of them and modified the closest one which produces the desired columns in excel. I used a new computation method which is able to better represent the delta in performance for your future proximity-flying test, let me know what you think. watch?v=KeNDYksZQp4&t=250
The problem with doing it "right" and flying higher, is you would then run into the max distance of the firmware. All antennas tested will get you there with perfect LOS conditions. So your test is completely valid in my mind. This is always the way it is. Once LOS is broken, a better antenna only gets you marginally further. The question is if that extra bit is worth it to you. I'm glad you verified what I've tried to tell folks. The Singularities really are special. They outperform the other omni's I've tested.
Sorry. Didn't realize this was at 25mw. So you wouldn't likely max out the firmware range,...... but I still feel the test is valid. Something I'm wondering about: Is the track depiction actuals? Where the 7 turn went the furthest?,...but the 3 turn isn't shown.
@@rcrdps8144 the 3 turn gut slightly further, but they all ran into the same problem at around 1km (the trees blocking los). Even my crossfire complaint there :) Considering the size, the singularity is really a special antenna!
@@Rcschim On the group, you mentioned Tommy's recent testing, and his results are much the same as these, but with even smaller margins. There just comes a point in flying where something blocks or interferes with your signal, and the performance at that point is what separates the good and bad antennas. With that in mind, it is very odd that the 7 turn didn't do better than the 3. Seems like you're far enough away that it wouldn't be a multi-pathing advantage, so then you wonder what it is? Is it what Bruce mentioned about lack of turning? Or maybe just the orientation of the four antennas with narrow beams leaves a hole in the middle,....? I have the 5 turn coming,...if it ever makes it through customs.
with 25mw you will not reach the max range limit, so free line of sight testing does make sense. And the limit does not seem to be carved in stone, talked to a guy yesterday claming over 14km wich is more than the max range limit would allow
@@rcrdps8144 the angles of the towers are different on the 3, 5 and 7turn version. There is no deadzone inbetween the beams, infact the beams are overlapping well into the - 3db zone on all versions. Probably the reason for the 7turn not performing as good as the 3 turn is that even tho the flightpath was very consistent, lets say the quad flew a couple of meters more to the left on the 7turn run the signal might have to penetrat a few more trees than on the 3turn run. This is just speculations but it could defenatly be the reason. But im mostly pissed on that damn tree at the second test, if not for that tree my 3turn had made a perfect 25.4mbit flatline😅
Great Mario! As allways: Best Antenna-Tester ever. Could You test the "Menace RC Digital HD Antenna Pack (DigiPack)" also? Because it would be a very cheap an easy mod. Mach weiter so! Grüße von der Ostsee!
Funny coincidence / nice motivation for me! I'm currently working on comparing a lot of antennas for DJI goggles - with the most accurate way to measure performance yet. I guess you will love it! Patrons already see a glimpse ;) just sayin ;)
While I'm sure this has something to do with fresnel zone, you could see that in the predictable bitrate change over the trees for the first 2 antenna sets. I'm guessing it also has something to do with the way dji processes everything. In one of the firmware updates they mentioned changing some things after 1km. So I'm guessing when a packet takes more than so much time it assumes loss. Perhaps that window of time was something they made auto adjust. That all is just speculation but it's clear that a normal signal wouldn't fall off like that at the longer distances so it's clearly distance and therefore has to be related to timing and not signal strength. I'm only referring to the last 20 secs or so of each flight. It's a shame we can't see an actual rssi like we're used too, using the bitrate measurement like this clearly has its quirks. Great job though, keep it up. One idea for the future is to take a directional and measure it at say 500m then rotate 45deg or something and measure again. Do the same thing near the edge of the range and see if you see a similar change. If it's simply antenna strength you'll see similar changes by rotating but if it's timing then the rotation at the far measurement won't change much.
I think what you refer to is the "sync pulse" related hard distance limit of 6.2km (on older firmwares) and now 13.4km on 50mbit firmware (they doubled the syncpulse time as I understand). In my later tests (ruclips.net/video/NoSAm22bs5E/видео.html) I made sure to fly high enough not to have problems with Mr Fresnel :) if you didnt see it yet, check out this test. Even later I wanted to rule out all flying related uncertainties and mounted an airunit on my balcony and went 2.3km away (couldnt change the distance much due to geographic issues) - this one is here: ruclips.net/video/RQML-azG4bQ/видео.html greets, Mario
Hi Mario, very strange. On my static testing top performed better than bottom. I verified it on another day with same result. Would like to see another test at higher altitude and comparing those ones. BTW, I already told you that I tested range on my 2 X-Airs, after 4km on 25mw I turned back due to low battery :D
Thank you very much for having kept your unique style over all those years. You‘re a gem in the FPV world :-) Regarding the video: If patches should go to the bottom, wouldn‘t that make sense for the helicals as well? Wouldn‘t it be a good day-to-day setup to go with the TrueRC stubbies on the top, and 2 helicals on the bottom? So you get the best out of both worlds.
Thanks for your kind words! You're right, helicals are no other than patches so you could also use 2 on bottom and 2 stubbies on top. But from my experience with the 3turn helicals I'd say: just use 4 of them. To mount them good, you have to make such a mount like Henrik did, and if you have this - why not use 4 helicals. Also: you dont have to mount the helical device other than screwing in 4 antennaports - they support the structure. only 2 would mean you have to mount them in other manners on the goggles...
@@Rcschim My thought was to keep the flexibility to fly all around you, while still have that beam of higher reception within 180° in front of the goggles. So i can just keep the same antennas on for every flight, without having to change antennas before the flight.
@@eyeflytinkerings even with 3turn helicals only you can fly around you. behind you will not have the greatest range - but good enough. and normally on flying I decide roughly where I wanna fly and face that way. if you fly around you, use your ears to turn your head in the approx direction - works good enough.
Top , danke , wieder ein sehr guter Test ! Wûrde mich freuen , wenn du bald die „Antennfreund“ Antennen mit in den Test nehmen würdest! Haben einen sehr guten Namen und sind weit verbreitet ...
Makes me wonder. When they assemble the goggles in the factory do you really think the worker checks which antenna connector goes up and which goes down? I bet whoever does this it just takes the two wire from one side and connects to the first two connectors and takes the two from the other side and connects them randomly on the second two connectors. So it's possible to get different results.
Great video!! I'm curious about what you said at the end, about the entnennas, having one left and one right. Per dji and everyone I have talked too and videos I've seen, the consensius is all 6 antenna must be the same directional wise. Now your test did confirm something I was pretty sure of after some reseach, and that is the patch/directional antenna work better on bottom and omni on top. I read somewhere that's it a little due to them being a tad higher but mostly becasue top two transmit and receive, the bottom two only receive. So the top two being omni antenna's does the transmiting and recieving better.
now I can get you confused again: watch my most recent antenna tests with stationary airunit and me being 2.3km away. see what I found there: the LEFT side is dominant, top/bottom tests give you just random results (depending if your top patches might look more to the left = better, or if you had your patches on bottom and looked more left whilst doing so). Still not 100% sure myself how the goggles work and how they determin which antennaports to use. They also asume that the goggles have 4 ominis (the stock ones) - and that's how their algorithm is programmed I guess. if we're using aftermarket antennas (and have an "asymmetric" setup) - it's our fault for messing with the system :) ruclips.net/video/RQML-azG4bQ/видео.html
@@Rcschim, Awesome yeah I have that video already saved in my "watch soon" folder. Just to make sure I'm not confusing you, when saying "left" or "right", are we only referring to left and right physically on the goggles, the same as top and bottom antenna. If so, I think it is me who is at fault for the confusion, the first part of my question, I was referring to the polarization of the individual antenna(LHCP vs RHCP), because most antenna, no matter what you use them on are polarized either left or right. All DJI stock antenna are left hand polarized, but patch or directional antenna can be left or right polarized too. If the antenna on RX and TX don't match polarization then they're not supposed to work. Either way, I can't wait to watch your other video when I get off work. In a comment section today, I saw that Stingy (fpv pilot, has own channel StingersSwarm) stated he looked up the FCC license info that is public record, and that only the top left RX antenna on the DJI goggle sends and receives, others still say that two of them do, sound like your video might point to what Stingy is claiming. I know English is probably not your first language, but you're leaps n bounds better than I am at my 2nd language, so thanks again!!
There will be an absolute limit in how far you can go with 25mW due to all the crap in the air you have to compete with noise-wise at such distance. The area where you lose signal likely has a more powerful source of noise, ie, cell tower or similar nearby. The air unit must receive the return packets from the goggles, the onboard omni's of the quad can pick up just about anything to drown out the goggles.
hi, I know - but here it was really my fault: when flying only 50m high, even 15m high trees near me get a problem when you're out a bit further. In my next testvideo I flew much higher and had better range. In the video I post today, I had a fixed installation and got to 2.3km with 25mw and the stock antennas (barely)
ja, da muss ich erst selbst ein paar interessante Tests machen (z.B. ob V1 brille gleich gut ist wie V2 brille im V1 Modus) V2 modus (occusync3) ist nochmal kompizierter zu testen, weils ja multiband (2.4 und 5.8) ist. Eigentlich aber wurscht wenn man im FCC mode unterwegs ist passt die Reichweite (hab ich gehört) im CE Modus ist's etwas bescheiden...
You're welcome! Which gyro do you mean? The ones on this copters fc? At the moment I don't even know which copter I used here, but it should be in the description. Gyro is stock on most copters.
Thank you for all of your hard work. I have 2 questions. 1. How would the maple patches work with the single Vista antenna? You cannot use one of each. I suppose just like your test. 2. Would the longer true rc antennas see any significant increase in range? Would it be worth the ease of use compared to the stubbies? Thanks again.
hi, to 1.: if you fly in the open air, no - different polarization would not gain then. if we fly bando style, maybe directly in between city skyscrapers (not that anyone should do this) - the many reflections would be picked up by all antennas. Why? Each time a RF signal is reflected, it changes polarization (from L to R and other way round). So having 2 different polarizations actually helps. This is theory to me - which yet has to be tested. But speaking with the engeneer behind maple - I have a lot of confidence in his RF knowledge! 2: which loger trueRCs do you mean? So far I only noticed differences on the foxeer lollipops: the short stubbies performed worse than their "normal" lenght versions. Possibly because their active element is further away from (reflective?) goggles surface...
Thank you for the comparison, really nice, I still am using the stock antennas and was able to get out over 1 mile 1730 meters up a hill and absolute no image loss with constant 50mb stream the entire time, was using the 1000mw setting. Is it worth getting crossfire if you do not plan on going over 2 miles, or can the DJI receiver be good enough? I was pretty much at my limit with the xm+.
if you always have enough range with video, DJI for control will work just fine. XM+ didnt work so well for me (but my taranis RF module was fading I guess). for me DJI as control is just too expensive with to little options (bigger radio, not programmable).
Ja, mir taugen die 3t auch. Wenn der Rucksack etwas Platz hat, können die auch gleich montiert bleiben, sonst halt die TrueRCs. SMA Staubkappen mit sehr guter Reichweite ;) Henrik hat keinen Shop - schick ihm einfach ne Mail. Bilder davon hab ich auf Facebook reingestellt.
Mario... mid-rolls again???? I got to 9:52 before the first mid-roll so I don't know what happened in the rest of the video but I'd suspect that the helicals were not performing up to expectations because they were not properly impedance-matched to the transmitter in the goggles. Impedance mismatches (ie: high VSWR) has far less effect on a receiver than on a transmitter and looking at the data-rates it appears that the helicals were receiving a strong signal from the quad but the data going from the goggles to the quad was quite weak (hence the rapid decline in bitrate). It's much harder to make a good transmitting helical than a good receiving one and to do the job properly, each individual transmitting antenna should have the feed-point adjusted so as to get the minimum VSWR. I suspect this has not been done with the helicals you tested.
@@MCsCreations As far as I am aware, they haven't done that with my vids. What sometimes happens is that creators have mid-rolls enabled by default and forget to disable them. Just requires you to change your default settings.
@@MCsCreations They shouldn't... if they do, please try to do a screen-capture if you can and make a note of the time where they appear. I'll rip RUclips a new one!
Thanks for the test! Question: When the signal comes back do the goggles pick it back up quickly? On my first flight when I lost connection the screen went black. I have been afraid to use my DJI goggles ever since. Thanks!
sorry, I was to afraid to let the connection drop fully, so it never went to a black screen (even if I had GPS rth I didnt wanna loose video - it's just against my instincts :) I think it's back quite soon - but you need autolevel or position hold at least not to crash. on a normal 5" betaflight copter - I'd switch to angle mode and increase throttle a bit to survive a few seconds in the air until connection comes back. even if you unplug the goggles and replug them - it doesnt take longer than a few seconds...
I thought this was an excellent test. for many of us that fly quads that occasionally fly out a number of KM's then id say flying at 50m was fairly true to life. the further we go its true that we would then need to fly higher and higher to keep the signal strength and benefit from the different types of antennas that you tested. however the further and higher we fly then we are increasing our risk of incidents with manned aircraft (A very small risk) and also possibly breaking the rules regarding maximum height. id say most of us er on the side of caution and average around the height you tested at. this been the case id say that the stubbies would also be my daily antennas. interestingly and frustratingly these dji specific antennas seem to be very expensive so i would be very interested in a comparison of the lower cost antennas such as the foxeer 3 and others with the true RC Stubbies and compare the differences and then we can consider price/value to bitrate. many thanks great video.
Thanks Jason, nice words. It was unfortunate tho - if I only had the balls to "send it" and chose 100 or 140m alt for the waypoints... Now I have to wait again for better weather and calm air to test more... I had also the foxeer antennas in my basket, but testing took me too long because first hour or so was wasted with higher winds... maybe on the next session.
You dont need to go very high if there is nothing blocking the signal, if the forest had not been there 50meters would have been fine. Yes you would be in the fresnell zone but it would still have worked pretty good. Blocked line of sight are much worse for the signal than the fresnel effect
@@Rcschim well it would be better to stay low and fly over a field without trees or to stand at higher ground above the forest canopy. If you are anywere close to a forest and standing below the canopy you need ALOT of hight to fly really far. Its a big problem where I live as there are forests everyware and no highgrounds and only "small" fields
I have the same frustration, and encountering promotion only serves to aggravate it. Check out the ORT pagoda stubby set for DJI. $44.99 for a set of 4. I've had some very interesting, and positive, results with these antennas. Haven't taken them off since I got them. I fly with the DJI controller. What's interesting is that with this antenna set, the signal for the DJI controller doesn't budge from full bars, rock solid. (Funny that different antenna on the goggles drastically change the behavior of the controller signal. I think theres some insight to be had here.) The signal meter for the quad drops one bar, way earlier than the stock antennas would, and this had me concerned on the first flight. Interestingly, after it drops the one bar, it doesn't budge, and stays rock solid far past where the stock antennas drop more bars and bitrate. With the ORT, bitrate and latency are unaffected by the one bar drop, so video is great until I max out range (max for my nerves anyway.) My flight scenario that yields these results is unique. I'm in a very noisy environment. My max altitude is 0, and for nearly all of the flight path, the aircraft is far below home point, as I fly down in a big, rocky, desert draw, often in close proximity to the rocky cliff edges, at the sides of the draw. Flying 25Mbps, I turn around when bitrate hits about 16 Mbps, which is 1.92km out. At this range, an altitude of "0" would actually put me a little over 300 ft above the ground at the end of the draw, but I'm never that high, usually around 100ft above the ground, so over 200ft below home point. Haven't tested a more traditional flight path. In my typical scenario, this antenna set, without doubt, outperforms stock, and the price for the set is far more considerate than other offerings. I'd love to see this ORT set in a shootout with the other popular offerings, though over more and more time, its conspicuous absence from such testing may prove to be revealing.
@@24kJames ORT makes decent antennas - that's for sure. DJI controller link doesnt need a lot of bandwidth - so it's included in video feed and will be in good state for long I guess. Why the video RSSI bars vs. actual bitrate is so disconnected leaves me wondering also. I learned quickly that the CH signal bars are only distracting. I now actually hate that they go red and would much rather see the bitrate larger, and go from gree to yellow and finally red at certain tresholds... Your flying location sounds awesome (but also challenging). I'll see if I can get those ORT pagodas... greets, Mario
i was thinking you might be too low, then when the helical's dropped off a cliff i thought maybe height is ok but signal strength/signal quality is the issue, if quality is good all the way to the end with the helicals then basic strength of signal is whats failing. i dont know what mr fresnel would say... ps i got a km on my eachine tx805 and lost radio, but i seen video clearly all the way down to the ground... long thick grass.. pps i forgot to flip up nirvanas antenna.
I'm quite sure that I got behind LOS when I left the wood behind me (around 1km) - on this comparison shot of real world and google earth (with red lines being my flights) we see quite clear now that ALT was to low. It was not so obvious to me there while testing... If I just had set 100m as a waypoint ALT default - this test would have been so much better.... I even got crossfire complaining when the trees where in the line of sight. But since it was very windy in the beginning I was nervous and thought I have to abort testing at all. Then I flew a few rounds with my normal 5" non waypoint copter to compare at least that way. during this testing wind got calmer and I finally flew WP missions. The day before I almost crashed in GPS hold mode - because the battery lead was too close to the compass gps unit... this all added to my insecurity while flying :)
@@Rcschim i wonder if fresnel effect is worse over trees, i think you still had los but it was very close. it such an easy mistake to make when you increase the distance, even when i sit and look and study things far away, when i get there it all looks so different, my last mountain session had at least 3 times i lost los, but no drop outs, signal must have bounced. anyway the tests are still useful, the helical's held 25mbs all the way, and nobody wants to fly with bad signals, especially with a turn around.
This is a fantastic video, but I'm confused about your test half way through on the issue with the curvature of the earth? Did you fix this issue after you discovered it in the other half of the video? I've also seen videos were output power doesn't make a difference in the total possible range of the DJI system. How far do you think the 3 turn helical or 7 turn helical can go on 1000mw. (As i'm flying in the us an we aren't limited by the 25mw rule). I've been able to fly about 2 miles on 1000mw with the iflight patch antennas. (3.1km) I've heard of people here in the us getting close to 3 miles. I'd really like to be able to fly 5 miles (8km) with DJI. Do you think the deathray would get that reach at 1200mw?
With some decent antennas (like the 3turn) you should easily get 3miles. I heard the new hardlimit with 50mbit mode is now double the range like it was before (fixedwing FPVers were stopped abruptly around 4miles because there is a sync pulse - very fast - and if the distance is to much the system get's out of sync and looses it - even if received signal is still pretty good. Now it should be ~ 8miles... that being said, I think my furthest flight until now were 3km - because I'm a chicken :) see my other range test video here - there I flew much higher - so nothing get's in the way: ruclips.net/video/NoSAm22bs5E/видео.html
also check this comparison of range with the different antennas at different powerlevels. it's an interpolated estimate - but you see for example: increasing from 700mw to 1200mw doesnt give you a huge gain in range ;) bit.ly/3iKdlch
@@Rcschim OMG that sync pulse totally explains the reason output power doesn't affect total distance. I agree though, you can get further on 50mbs. I'll checkout those helica's and give them a try. Thank you!
I understand it's been awhile, but with the Avata now out, the discussion had turned to connect patch diagonally. As I understand it V2 receives from upper right and lowers left (from behind the goggles view) Curious if you have thoughts on this.
Hi Brandon, I heard the theory of diagonal being better. This russian guy here made an impressive testflight: Diagonal Omni / Patch Combo (Omni: left top, right bottom from inside!) as suggested by RS and seen by Anik FPV ruclips.net/video/yNMMQkyqfRE/видео.html I have a lot of thoughts on antenna-tests but hadn't have the time to do these time consuming tasks sadly. Now O3 is out and I wanna test it. And I'm quite sure it will perform so well that the whole antenna discussion is a bit less important (it just works ;) The weather also isn't really helping these days. short days - and mostly foggy or snowy ;)
@@Rcschim I ended up talking with a Dji tech who also said diagonal is the correct way. So I tried both diagonal setups and was unimpressed. Then I went patch to the top 2 and omni original on the bottom and was blown away. Of course, I don't have technical empirical statistics, but anecdotally I gained not only about 2x the distance, but also now have below the horizon connection, which is a game changer for me flying in the canyons of west Texas. Thank you for all you do to keep us all informed!
Any chance of testing some linear antennas? I use linear dipoles on my quad and two Biquad directional antennas on the goggles (left ports). Has worked well out to 6+ miles at 1W. But I'm curious how my setup stacks up to the 3/5/7 turn helicals.
well, technically I already tested linear antennas. check the video I linked at the endroll (right bottom corner) where I drive around with my RCcar. I used ordinary linears ;) I suspect that the stock DJIs are also not to much circular and that DJI can use linear antennas quite well since multipath interference doesnt matter too much (or maybe even help) in their system it seems...
i have a fat shark dominotor 2 im new in fpv what set of antenna if i want to upgrade my antenna, wich one should i get? the cheapest on the market. thank's
Hi Jay, and welcome in a great hobby, I wanna suggest this antennatest video I did: ruclips.net/video/inXNLnGXewo/видео.html ►OVERVIEW (with pics & links) bit.ly/2XI0PRq
Hi, Im considering buying a new anntena for my fpv goggles. Which one would you suggest out of the "Lumenier AXII 2 long range right-angle antenna" or the "Foxeer lollipop 3 15cm right-angle antenna" The Lumenier is $27 and the Foxeer is $15. Is the Lumenier a much better antenna? If yes, why? Thanks!
You're talking about analog fpv right? It's hard to say if the Lumenier is almost double as good as the Foxeer without having it tested ;) Until now I think I only had Foxeers on my bench, and they at times cloned Lumenier (axii) when they stopped doing this their antennas performed worse (Lollipop2 vs 1). Br, Mario
@@Rcschim Yes analog fpv. I really like my lollipop 3 antennas. They seem to work great, but Im curious if the lumenier AXII ones are actually twice as good.
Didn't ignore it, but it is too expensive for me if I already have good antennas and don't like how bulky it is. But I would definitely test it if Alex would send it over ;)
Wait, there’s left and right hand? (I’m new), great, more things to add to my confusion. Should I just order the axii combo? (I think it’s a patch and stubby combo? Sorry I’m new) Or will 4 stubby be still better than stock (and more than enough for noobs like me?)
hehe, if you want to buy DJI airunit antennas they are sometimes labeled as HD digital antennas, or DJI digital, then they are normally LEFT. All the "older" antennas on the market which we used for analog FPV were defaulted to RIGHT. That's what most pilots used. So if you get a lot of old Analog antennas, they can still work fine for you, but you need to swap the copters antenna as well to RIGHT. And it sure adds to the confusion that you have different connectors: SMA, RP SMA, mmcx and UFL Got me thinking that this might be worth an short explanation video for guys like you. greets, Mario
Please help out a noob like me, save me from more confusion. If I were to upgrade my antenna, which one should I get? Nothing too expensive, and if possible something that will work with bpi analog adapter? (I don’t have them yet but likely to buy in the future) I see some combination, th axii ( combination of stubby and patch?)
cheapest and best overal working combo for me is the iFlight CrystalHD pack (with Stubbies). around 70$. or the Axii HD patch + stubbies. will reply with a link in seperate comment. It will also work with analog adaptor - but remember that you also need LEFT antennas then on your analog copter to match - else you will have reduced range (about 50% less I estimate).
here's the link to crystalHD (I like it since it looks nice and comes in different paint jobs): de.banggood.com/IFlight-Crystal-HD-Patch-5_8GHz-9dBi-Directional-Circular-Polarized-High-Gain-Flat-Panel-FPV-Antenna-LHCP-RP-SMA-With-Casing-Mushroom-Antenna-Combo-for-DJI-FPV-Goggles-p-1763005.html?ad_id=530578876031&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1dGJBhD4ARIsANb6OdlW9u3OgZwiXH_3O2CHvDXobbfPP_BeFnpp7jz7cF-r4MFctfY4JQQaAv-xEALw_wcB&cur_warehouse=USA&ID=6303749
do you mean the video where I tested many antennas while driving with an RC car? I think I also stated there that patch testing with the car wasnt really conclusive there ;) With the RCCar I just didnt get far away to see any real difference - rather the random propagation of reflections...
I guess the 3turns are similar maybe a bit below the Xair. Xair should be between 3 and 5turn helicals. The 3turn helicals are among the most convenient "longrange" antennas for these goggles! VAS sent me the new cyclops v2 - they now look decent (small compared to v1) and I will test their performance soon.
@@uscskierbro the test is online - but Vas cyclops performed below expectation here. in my stationary test the cyclops are a bit better than the 3turn helicals... this new test should be online in a few days.
Normally I fly with the Tango2 on auto mode - so max 250mw... but when CF gave me warnings I really left LOS and got behind the treetops (which I didnt consider since I thought I fly high enough...)
nope, my TrueRC Singularity stubbies are LHCP (TrueRC uses different colors for RHCP vs LHCP) Only back in the days I used RHCP when I wanted to use my old analog antennas (as there were plenty to choose from) that's where I chose to install RHCP on the copters. But at some point I swapped to everywhere use LHCP. Well: at least that was my intention! Some of the RTF copters lable their Copter TX Antennas with LHCP where they clearly have RHCP inside!!! So I opened all my antennas to verify. For example my RekonFPV Hexplorer was one of those with wrong antennas... greets, Mario
@@Rcschim wow very interesting, thanks for clarifying! i checked out your other video where you open up all the antennas (older video) and i saw mostly RHCP antennas .. wanted to buy the speedybee antennas (also now in a V2 version available), but they are all only RHCP unfortunately, so will get other ones .. which one do you recommend for best range (if money doesn't matter) - thanks!
@@shotbyarian Recently I bought the TrueRC Singularity (with 12cm long cable) for my planes VTX (Airunit with 2 Ant). It has really good range compared to other plane with vista and one normal antenna). On the RX side (goggles) I still prefer the 3turn Helicals. But I guess the Axii HD2 or chrystal patches are not bad either. Wanted to do another comprehensive antenna testing - already started, but didnt have enough time...
@@Rcschim great thanks! will check them out! i already own the 3turn helicals since early 2022 when i saw your comparison video, they are really good and also still compact! just need to upgrade the short antennas to longer ones for long range, thanks! really looking forward to the new comparison video - already subscribed since a year or so, so will def. see it when released, thanks!
Are you sure those trees didn't get in the way? that was a fast fall off on those helicals. *Well...seems I should have watched the rest of the video before making a stupid comment. Why don't you just stick an attenuator on the transmitter side? That's the way we used to test our gear YEARS ago. Can cut your measurements from hundreds of meters to only tens of meters.
that only shows you came to the right conclusion way quicker than I while testing :) but on the field it's always more difficult... 10db attis on all 4 ports would be worth a test. I need to order a few - I guess I only have 1 or 2. Will think about this - could make testing really much easier.
@@slinkyfpv sure - on the source rather than on the 4 antennaports of the goggles. sometimes I'm a bit slow at thinking ;) Will do so and see what kind of range I'll get then. Maybe suddenly my smaller flightfield will just do! Thanks for your feedback!
@@Rcschim I wouldn't say your slow at thinking at all! You take your time and are more thorough than many. I watch your content before JB's when it comes to measurement and weighing results.
@@Rcschim yes very good idea as you would not even have to fly, you could just have the quad stationary but the question is how far away it would have to sit
This just proves that DJI got it perfect first time and the others cost but give zero improvement. Altitude is irrelevant if all were tested at the same height.
Yep, it was dissapointing to me that my faulty test setup invalidated the results. But since all antennas had the same disadvantage it's still not a total waste of time (I hope). Also you could have learnt here how to easily convert your SRT files to CSV and load them into Excel - if you're nerdy enough ;)
@@Rcschim thanks! By the way, since only bottom left is really used for longer range, is directional worth it for others 3 antennas? I've got crystal, thinking of cyclops mini, but maybe just need a patch on bottom left!?
@@fpvwing I admit I still dont fully understand how those 4 antennaports really work. In tests we just saw that the bottom left is quite important. I dont think that the other 3 are not needed. Using just 1 patch or 3turn on the lower left didnt give me the same worry free range than using 4 directionals. Cyclops mini is also a good choice! Single Patches are mostly not convenient enough to mount or not pointing in a good direction...
What u clearly see is - that u spend too much money for nothing. There ist NO really more range - but u loose ~ 100$. Thats it. Thats true. Thats reallity. Stop all that forum antenna hoaxes...
Nope, wait for my next video, probably tomorrow. There i use the same antennas but this time flying higher. There the difference is greater... Greets, Mario
Nope not true at all, I tested mine with like 4 different brands in a bunch of configurations, and got noticblly bettery signal/distance using aftermarket antenna. I settled on Triump stubby omnis on top and Lumenier Axii patch on bottom. (standard white patch ones, not ones made for dji goggle) There's also many youtubers that have ran distant test, all with similar results.
It’s technicaly impossible that we gain signal power(we know that by transmition speed) with no range extension. At some point Mario had some big signal loses from trees. In open air signal should not go down so rapidly.
Thanks for always being thorough and as precise as you can be about the tests you do.
You all prolly dont give a damn but does any of you know of a trick to get back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can give me.
@Zander Bronson instablaster :)
@Kayden Richard Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and Im in the hacking process atm.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Kayden Richard It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account !
@Zander Bronson Glad I could help :D
Great testing kind sir. May I suggest from being in the east where there is a lot of trees, I would like to suggest maintaining a line of sit with the goggles and the quad by elevating more and more as you increase distance. Any trees between you and the quad will mercilessly eat up the signal. No matter what antennas you use, the trees are doing you in! Hope this helps.
Thanks. I will definitly! I just had bad judgement on the height needed to stay LOS all the time. 50m felt really high when I started. Generally you should be 10% of distance in height - this way we can go much further.
I didnt trust the autonomous flight of this drone enough to fly higher and further ;)
Impressive! So far the most scientific and the best designed test ever seen. So many differient types of antenna analyzed. Well done!
Great test Mario! Awesome to see my helicals tested! Kind regards Henrik
Great antennas Henrik - thanks for stopping by! Excuse my test failure once again - I'm sure the 7turns would have done very well if I just flew 100 or 150m high.
@@Rcschim thanks! Yes Im sure they would too, the forest seems to have blocked the free line of sight, probably where the mbit is diving as it was solid 25.4mbit to the point were it just drops like crazy. Also that would explain why you did not see an advantage with the 7turn over the 3 turn
Thank you Mario for bring to us another interesting adventure with antennas, old school (helicals/ crosshair) always wins, although new PCB antennas like the Pagoda triple feed, menaceRC and AXI2 HD patches are catching up. I had gd results with pcb biquads (with air gap) and linear dipoles (on air unit).
RCSchim Would love to see more linear testing, specially in multi-path environment, since the RC car had promising results
I was hesitant to upgrade my stock DJI goggle antennas but this test shows a substantial improvement when using TrueRC Stubbies so I’ve ordered a set!
thank you for doing this gargantuan job that is actually very useful to all of us DJI owners! Now i know what i'll use for everyday vs the long-range days
Thanx
TrueRC Stubby wins again. Great video RCSchim!
Well I would say the 3turn heleical won in both range and highest mbit, the stubbys wins in backpackability for sure
Thanks for the work you did on this I’ve been waiting for a test like this
You're welcome! Not 100% happy with how I tested - especially the fact that I didnt fly high enough...
Preparing the next test video atm. Not such a big one, but still with a surprising result ;)
Hallo RCSchim, vielen Dank für das ausführliche Video!
Beim Test der 7-Turn Helical ist mir bei 9:27 aufgefallen, dass die Antennen etwas steil nach oben ausgerichtet sind.
Vielleicht war das mit Ursache für das schlechte Ergebnis bei den 7turns, neben der fehlenden Höhe?
Allein so ein kleiner Faktor kann so viel beeinflussen und ist so leicht zu übersehen.
Deshalb weiß ich deine Tests sehr zu schätzen, du bist immer sehr gewissenhaft und gründlich! :-)
Weiter so, bitte! ;)
Fantastic flying and testing, Mario! 😃
Thanks a lot for all what you do!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks for you comment and that you helped me defend my unintentional midrolls against Bruce ;)
@@Rcschim Don't worry, my friend. 😊
Thanks a lot! You sure put a lot of effort into your testing, it's being picked up by people and it's appreciated ;)
love how you described the design of the product. I might be able to build my own helical.. thank you so MUCH!! SUBBED!!!
Have you also been doing Euler angle movements with head and body to notice a difference? Also I am impressed how far you get with 25mW. This looks really far with 25mW and beautiful landscape.
myself fly between 200(summer) 400 - 800 - 1600mW(winter) with AKK race ranger vtx and fatshark Scout goggles. My maximum distance in ~30meter height is about 1.8km.
My rc car (LRP twister) with 25mW vtx (betafpv) has maximum distance about 100meters thats ok.
yes, I kind of did here: ruclips.net/video/OBfRZwrsz0c/видео.html
On this test here (the one with waypoints) I messed up the testing because I flew to low to the ground.
But I'm motivated to do new tests soon. These days it's become so easy to do proper testing: fly consistant with a copter, have GPS telemetry logged, use the OpenTX Log analyzer site online and get a comparison: GPS Distance vs. DJI Bitrate. So cool, I love it. And I got a few new things to try out.
greets, Mario
Do a complete test of the Maple Wireless,which is very popular in China
will do for sure!
Hello RC Schim. Thank you for excellent antenna testing. This is really apreciated. Keep up with the good work. We follow you all the time. Best reg. John Lee in Norway.
Thanks for taking the time to say hi! Norway is a beautiful country. Hope we can travel there some time!
I love antenna testing. I need more time but already got good idea how to better compare antennas in real flight...
@@Rcschim Hello again. Thank you very much. It is my pleasure to do so, since i understand all the work you put down, in this very interesting field.
I am a technican and gründer in many fields and I have built up 5 companies. Working very hard for many decades. I have been working with RF communication and antennas for many years in many RF bands related to different projects. I am 65 years now, so it has been many interesting tasks over many years. I have also been in the RC business for very many years, both in business and has also been my hobby. A fantastic hobby out in our beautiful nature. Now, i enjoy many off the DJI drones, iFlight drones etc ... So much interesting happening now in these days regarding RF and especially up in the Ghz bands as can give us really interesting projects. Also in the battery field as now finally is more or less exploding with very interesting products as we benefit from. I wish you all the best! Yes, thank you, Norway is a fantastic nice country. Have a nice evening. Best reg. John Lee - Norway.
Really comprehensive video! Good job! And thank you for your SRT converter as well! Wait for your next test!
SRT files are really a nice option on DJI - the converter is really simple but effective. Make sure to also use the XLSM file I provide - so you can import a lot of SRTs at once and compare them easy in the XLS sheet. And I'm right now working on the next test ;)
Hi Mario, thanks for the SRT converters, I tested all of them and modified the closest one which produces the desired columns in excel. I used a new computation method which is able to better represent the delta in performance for your future proximity-flying test, let me know what you think.
watch?v=KeNDYksZQp4&t=250
The problem with doing it "right" and flying higher, is you would then run into the max distance of the firmware. All antennas tested will get you there with perfect LOS conditions. So your test is completely valid in my mind. This is always the way it is. Once LOS is broken, a better antenna only gets you marginally further. The question is if that extra bit is worth it to you.
I'm glad you verified what I've tried to tell folks. The Singularities really are special. They outperform the other omni's I've tested.
Sorry. Didn't realize this was at 25mw. So you wouldn't likely max out the firmware range,...... but I still feel the test is valid. Something I'm wondering about: Is the track depiction actuals? Where the 7 turn went the furthest?,...but the 3 turn isn't shown.
@@rcrdps8144 the 3 turn gut slightly further, but they all ran into the same problem at around 1km (the trees blocking los).
Even my crossfire complaint there :)
Considering the size, the singularity is really a special antenna!
@@Rcschim On the group, you mentioned Tommy's recent testing, and his results are much the same as these, but with even smaller margins. There just comes a point in flying where something blocks or interferes with your signal, and the performance at that point is what separates the good and bad antennas. With that in mind, it is very odd that the 7 turn didn't do better than the 3. Seems like you're far enough away that it wouldn't be a multi-pathing advantage, so then you wonder what it is? Is it what Bruce mentioned about lack of turning? Or maybe just the orientation of the four antennas with narrow beams leaves a hole in the middle,....?
I have the 5 turn coming,...if it ever makes it through customs.
with 25mw you will not reach the max range limit, so free line of sight testing does make sense. And the limit does not seem to be carved in stone, talked to a guy yesterday claming over 14km wich is more than the max range limit would allow
@@rcrdps8144 the angles of the towers are different on the 3, 5 and 7turn version. There is no deadzone inbetween the beams, infact the beams are overlapping well into the - 3db zone on all versions. Probably the reason for the 7turn not performing as good as the 3 turn is that even tho the flightpath was very consistent, lets say the quad flew a couple of meters more to the left on the 7turn run the signal might have to penetrat a few more trees than on the 3turn run. This is just speculations but it could defenatly be the reason.
But im mostly pissed on that damn tree at the second test, if not for that tree my 3turn had made a perfect 25.4mbit flatline😅
Fantastic video Mario thank you! 👍
notes:
black petg
double sided copper/fiberglass pcb board
1.4mm solid copper wire
semi rigid RG402
gold plated RPSMA 90 degree connectors
Spitzen Video . Des war wieder ein super Test . Mega !!!!
Fresnel zone!
Thanks for all the hard work Mario!
Now that's a freakin test man. Great work
Good video. You look just like the guy from “Practical Engineering” RUclips
Great Mario! As allways: Best Antenna-Tester ever. Could You test the "Menace RC Digital HD Antenna Pack (DigiPack)" also? Because it would be a very cheap an easy mod. Mach weiter so! Grüße von der Ostsee!
Thanks! I already have measured at least the rhcp version of the menace. it was not bad. check out my other large antennatest from August.
Nice testing! Love it!
Ok I will check your video's for the links to buy the stuff we talk about in email
nice comparison!
amazing, thanks for all your effort
Funny coincidence / nice motivation for me! I'm currently working on comparing a lot of antennas for DJI goggles - with the most accurate way to measure performance yet.
I guess you will love it! Patrons already see a glimpse ;) just sayin ;)
While I'm sure this has something to do with fresnel zone, you could see that in the predictable bitrate change over the trees for the first 2 antenna sets. I'm guessing it also has something to do with the way dji processes everything. In one of the firmware updates they mentioned changing some things after 1km. So I'm guessing when a packet takes more than so much time it assumes loss. Perhaps that window of time was something they made auto adjust. That all is just speculation but it's clear that a normal signal wouldn't fall off like that at the longer distances so it's clearly distance and therefore has to be related to timing and not signal strength. I'm only referring to the last 20 secs or so of each flight. It's a shame we can't see an actual rssi like we're used too, using the bitrate measurement like this clearly has its quirks. Great job though, keep it up. One idea for the future is to take a directional and measure it at say 500m then rotate 45deg or something and measure again. Do the same thing near the edge of the range and see if you see a similar change. If it's simply antenna strength you'll see similar changes by rotating but if it's timing then the rotation at the far measurement won't change much.
I think what you refer to is the "sync pulse" related hard distance limit of 6.2km (on older firmwares) and now 13.4km on 50mbit firmware (they doubled the syncpulse time as I understand).
In my later tests (ruclips.net/video/NoSAm22bs5E/видео.html) I made sure to fly high enough not to have problems with Mr Fresnel :) if you didnt see it yet, check out this test.
Even later I wanted to rule out all flying related uncertainties and mounted an airunit on my balcony and went 2.3km away (couldnt change the distance much due to geographic issues) - this one is here: ruclips.net/video/RQML-azG4bQ/видео.html
greets, Mario
Hi Mario, very strange. On my static testing top performed better than bottom. I verified it on another day with same result.
Would like to see another test at higher altitude and comparing those ones.
BTW, I already told you that I tested range on my 2 X-Airs, after 4km on 25mw I turned back due to low battery :D
Thank you very much for having kept your unique style over all those years. You‘re a gem in the FPV world :-)
Regarding the video: If patches should go to the bottom, wouldn‘t that make sense for the helicals as well? Wouldn‘t it be a good day-to-day setup to go with the TrueRC stubbies on the top, and 2 helicals on the bottom? So you get the best out of both worlds.
Thanks for your kind words!
You're right, helicals are no other than patches so you could also use 2 on bottom and 2 stubbies on top. But from my experience with the 3turn helicals I'd say: just use 4 of them. To mount them good, you have to make such a mount like Henrik did, and if you have this - why not use 4 helicals. Also: you dont have to mount the helical device other than screwing in 4 antennaports - they support the structure. only 2 would mean you have to mount them in other manners on the goggles...
@@Rcschim My thought was to keep the flexibility to fly all around you, while still have that beam of higher reception within 180° in front of the goggles. So i can just keep the same antennas on for every flight, without having to change antennas before the flight.
@@eyeflytinkerings even with 3turn helicals only you can fly around you. behind you will not have the greatest range - but good enough. and normally on flying I decide roughly where I wanna fly and face that way. if you fly around you, use your ears to turn your head in the approx direction - works good enough.
@@Rcschim Good point. I'll do some testing myself with good old helicals i still carry around from chipsgrips and rabe2000 ;-)
Nice work
great video. It would be great if your videos had Spanish subtitles
Top , danke , wieder ein sehr guter Test !
Wûrde mich freuen , wenn du bald die „Antennfreund“ Antennen mit in den Test nehmen würdest!
Haben einen sehr guten Namen und sind weit verbreitet ...
Makes me wonder. When they assemble the goggles in the factory do you really think the worker checks which antenna connector goes up and which goes down? I bet whoever does this it just takes the two wire from one side and connects to the first two connectors and takes the two from the other side and connects them randomly on the second two connectors. So it's possible to get different results.
i do not think that cable connection is happening randomly. i really dont.
Awesome test, could you also try with 2 Truerc x-air ?
I see if I can borrow some from a friend the next time I do test stuff.
Great video!! I'm curious about what you said at the end, about the entnennas, having one left and one right. Per dji and everyone I have talked too and videos I've seen, the consensius is all 6 antenna must be the same directional wise.
Now your test did confirm something I was pretty sure of after some reseach, and that is the patch/directional antenna work better on bottom and omni on top. I read somewhere that's it a little due to them being a tad higher but mostly becasue top two transmit and receive, the bottom two only receive. So the top two being omni antenna's does the transmiting and recieving better.
now I can get you confused again: watch my most recent antenna tests with stationary airunit and me being 2.3km away. see what I found there: the LEFT side is dominant, top/bottom tests give you just random results (depending if your top patches might look more to the left = better, or if you had your patches on bottom and looked more left whilst doing so).
Still not 100% sure myself how the goggles work and how they determin which antennaports to use. They also asume that the goggles have 4 ominis (the stock ones) - and that's how their algorithm is programmed I guess. if we're using aftermarket antennas (and have an "asymmetric" setup) - it's our fault for messing with the system :)
ruclips.net/video/RQML-azG4bQ/видео.html
@@Rcschim, Awesome yeah I have that video already saved in my "watch soon" folder. Just to make sure I'm not confusing you, when saying "left" or "right", are we only referring to left and right physically on the goggles, the same as top and bottom antenna. If so, I think it is me who is at fault for the confusion, the first part of my question, I was referring to the polarization of the individual antenna(LHCP vs RHCP), because most antenna, no matter what you use them on are polarized either left or right. All DJI stock antenna are left hand polarized, but patch or directional antenna can be left or right polarized too. If the antenna on RX and TX don't match polarization then they're not supposed to work.
Either way, I can't wait to watch your other video when I get off work. In a comment section today, I saw that Stingy (fpv pilot, has own channel StingersSwarm) stated he looked up the FCC license info that is public record, and that only the top left RX antenna on the DJI goggle sends and receives, others still say that two of them do, sound like your video might point to what Stingy is claiming. I know English is probably not your first language, but you're leaps n bounds better than I am at my 2nd language, so thanks again!!
Great work !
💪🙌✈️you keep up flying drone
There will be an absolute limit in how far you can go with 25mW due to all the crap in the air you have to compete with noise-wise at such distance. The area where you lose signal likely has a more powerful source of noise, ie, cell tower or similar nearby. The air unit must receive the return packets from the goggles, the onboard omni's of the quad can pick up just about anything to drown out the goggles.
hi, I know - but here it was really my fault: when flying only 50m high, even 15m high trees near me get a problem when you're out a bit further.
In my next testvideo I flew much higher and had better range.
In the video I post today, I had a fixed installation and got to 2.3km with 25mw and the stock antennas (barely)
Is better to keep stock for long range free of structures
heck yes! thank you for doing my homework for me haha :)
wirst du zur Dji V2 Brille auch ein paar Sachen erklären? da ist das Thema Antennen ja sehr spannend!
ja, da muss ich erst selbst ein paar interessante Tests machen (z.B. ob V1 brille gleich gut ist wie V2 brille im V1 Modus)
V2 modus (occusync3) ist nochmal kompizierter zu testen, weils ja multiband (2.4 und 5.8) ist. Eigentlich aber wurscht wenn man im FCC mode unterwegs ist passt die Reichweite (hab ich gehört) im CE Modus ist's etwas bescheiden...
Hi thanks for your helpful information great video. Please what gyro you are using
You're welcome! Which gyro do you mean? The ones on this copters fc?
At the moment I don't even know which copter I used here, but it should be in the description. Gyro is stock on most copters.
Thank you , what antennas do you recomend for DJI FPV Drone that has 2.4Ghz as well?
Thank you for all of your hard work. I have 2 questions.
1. How would the maple patches work with the single Vista antenna? You cannot use one of each. I suppose just like your test.
2. Would the longer true rc antennas see any significant increase in range? Would it be worth the ease of use compared to the stubbies?
Thanks again.
hi, to 1.: if you fly in the open air, no - different polarization would not gain then. if we fly bando style, maybe directly in between city skyscrapers (not that anyone should do this) - the many reflections would be picked up by all antennas. Why? Each time a RF signal is reflected, it changes polarization (from L to R and other way round). So having 2 different polarizations actually helps. This is theory to me - which yet has to be tested. But speaking with the engeneer behind maple - I have a lot of confidence in his RF knowledge!
2: which loger trueRCs do you mean?
So far I only noticed differences on the foxeer lollipops: the short stubbies performed worse than their "normal" lenght versions. Possibly because their active element is further away from (reflective?) goggles surface...
Thank you for the comparison, really nice, I still am using the stock antennas and was able to get out over 1 mile 1730 meters up a hill and absolute no image loss with constant 50mb stream the entire time, was using the 1000mw setting. Is it worth getting crossfire if you do not plan on going over 2 miles, or can the DJI receiver be good enough? I was pretty much at my limit with the xm+.
if you always have enough range with video, DJI for control will work just fine. XM+ didnt work so well for me (but my taranis RF module was fading I guess).
for me DJI as control is just too expensive with to little options (bigger radio, not programmable).
Link für die 3 turns helical wär noch fein !!! Die sind ah super kompromiss gell von grösse und reichweite sowie stabilität in den bitrates
Ja, mir taugen die 3t auch. Wenn der Rucksack etwas Platz hat, können die auch gleich montiert bleiben, sonst halt die TrueRCs. SMA Staubkappen mit sehr guter Reichweite ;)
Henrik hat keinen Shop - schick ihm einfach ne Mail. Bilder davon hab ich auf Facebook reingestellt.
Yes you can email me at henrikjaderstrom84@gmail.com
Mario... mid-rolls again???? I got to 9:52 before the first mid-roll so I don't know what happened in the rest of the video but I'd suspect that the helicals were not performing up to expectations because they were not properly impedance-matched to the transmitter in the goggles. Impedance mismatches (ie: high VSWR) has far less effect on a receiver than on a transmitter and looking at the data-rates it appears that the helicals were receiving a strong signal from the quad but the data going from the goggles to the quad was quite weak (hence the rapid decline in bitrate). It's much harder to make a good transmitting helical than a good receiving one and to do the job properly, each individual transmitting antenna should have the feed-point adjusted so as to get the minimum VSWR. I suspect this has not been done with the helicals you tested.
The RUclips is inserting them even if you mark you don't want them, Bruce. 😕
It's getting really boring, but... There's no much you can do for now. 😕
@@MCsCreations As far as I am aware, they haven't done that with my vids. What sometimes happens is that creators have mid-rolls enabled by default and forget to disable them. Just requires you to change your default settings.
@@xjet Well... They showed up for me during your videos as well... 😬
@@MCsCreations They shouldn't... if they do, please try to do a screen-capture if you can and make a note of the time where they appear. I'll rip RUclips a new one!
@@xjet I watch videos on my Smart TV... It's a bit more complicated, but if it happens again I'm going to take pictures and send you!
Of course, you fly at 25 milliwatts! which really is a pain!
👍
Thanks for the test! Question: When the signal comes back do the goggles pick it back up quickly? On my first flight when I lost connection the screen went black. I have been afraid to use my DJI goggles ever since. Thanks!
sorry, I was to afraid to let the connection drop fully, so it never went to a black screen (even if I had GPS rth I didnt wanna loose video - it's just against my instincts :)
I think it's back quite soon - but you need autolevel or position hold at least not to crash. on a normal 5" betaflight copter - I'd switch to angle mode and increase throttle a bit to survive a few seconds in the air until connection comes back. even if you unplug the goggles and replug them - it doesnt take longer than a few seconds...
were the dji goggles set to 25mW or more? thank you for your great video!
yep, Test setup: 25mw in 25mbit mode
There's something at the end of the woods. All antennas has the same result once it passed the end of the woods.
I thought this was an excellent test. for many of us that fly quads that occasionally fly out a number of KM's then id say flying at 50m was fairly true to life. the further we go its true that we would then need to fly higher and higher to keep the signal strength and benefit from the different types of antennas that you tested. however the further and higher we fly then we are increasing our risk of incidents with manned aircraft (A very small risk) and also possibly breaking the rules regarding maximum height. id say most of us er on the side of caution and average around the height you tested at. this been the case id say that the stubbies would also be my daily antennas. interestingly and frustratingly these dji specific antennas seem to be very expensive so i would be very interested in a comparison of the lower cost antennas such as the foxeer 3 and others with the true RC Stubbies and compare the differences and then we can consider price/value to bitrate.
many thanks great video.
Thanks Jason, nice words. It was unfortunate tho - if I only had the balls to "send it" and chose 100 or 140m alt for the waypoints...
Now I have to wait again for better weather and calm air to test more...
I had also the foxeer antennas in my basket, but testing took me too long because first hour or so was wasted with higher winds... maybe on the next session.
You dont need to go very high if there is nothing blocking the signal, if the forest had not been there 50meters would have been fine. Yes you would be in the fresnell zone but it would still have worked pretty good. Blocked line of sight are much worse for the signal than the fresnel effect
@@Rcschim well it would be better to stay low and fly over a field without trees or to stand at higher ground above the forest canopy. If you are anywere close to a forest and standing below the canopy you need ALOT of hight to fly really far. Its a big problem where I live as there are forests everyware and no highgrounds and only "small" fields
I have the same frustration, and encountering promotion only serves to aggravate it. Check out the ORT pagoda stubby set for DJI. $44.99 for a set of 4. I've had some very interesting, and positive, results with these antennas. Haven't taken them off since I got them.
I fly with the DJI controller. What's interesting is that with this antenna set, the signal for the DJI controller doesn't budge from full bars, rock solid. (Funny that different antenna on the goggles drastically change the behavior of the controller signal. I think theres some insight to be had here.) The signal meter for the quad drops one bar, way earlier than the stock antennas would, and this had me concerned on the first flight. Interestingly, after it drops the one bar, it doesn't budge, and stays rock solid far past where the stock antennas drop more bars and bitrate. With the ORT, bitrate and latency are unaffected by the one bar drop, so video is great until I max out range (max for my nerves anyway.)
My flight scenario that yields these results is unique. I'm in a very noisy environment. My max altitude is 0, and for nearly all of the flight path, the aircraft is far below home point, as I fly down in a big, rocky, desert draw, often in close proximity to the rocky cliff edges, at the sides of the draw. Flying 25Mbps, I turn around when bitrate hits about 16 Mbps, which is 1.92km out. At this range, an altitude of "0" would actually put me a little over 300 ft above the ground at the end of the draw, but I'm never that high, usually around 100ft above the ground, so over 200ft below home point. Haven't tested a more traditional flight path. In my typical scenario, this antenna set, without doubt, outperforms stock, and the price for the set is far more considerate than other offerings. I'd love to see this ORT set in a shootout with the other popular offerings, though over more and more time, its conspicuous absence from such testing may prove to be revealing.
@@24kJames ORT makes decent antennas - that's for sure.
DJI controller link doesnt need a lot of bandwidth - so it's included in video feed and will be in good state for long I guess.
Why the video RSSI bars vs. actual bitrate is so disconnected leaves me wondering also. I learned quickly that the CH signal bars are only distracting. I now actually hate that they go red and would much rather see the bitrate larger, and go from gree to yellow and finally red at certain tresholds...
Your flying location sounds awesome (but also challenging).
I'll see if I can get those ORT pagodas...
greets, Mario
i was thinking you might be too low, then when the helical's dropped off a cliff i thought maybe height is ok but signal strength/signal quality is the issue, if quality is good all the way to the end with the helicals then basic strength of signal is whats failing. i dont know what mr fresnel would say... ps i got a km on my eachine tx805 and lost radio, but i seen video clearly all the way down to the ground... long thick grass.. pps i forgot to flip up nirvanas antenna.
I'm quite sure that I got behind LOS when I left the wood behind me (around 1km) - on this comparison shot of real world and google earth (with red lines being my flights) we see quite clear now that ALT was to low. It was not so obvious to me there while testing... If I just had set 100m as a waypoint ALT default - this test would have been so much better....
I even got crossfire complaining when the trees where in the line of sight.
But since it was very windy in the beginning I was nervous and thought I have to abort testing at all. Then I flew a few rounds with my normal 5" non waypoint copter to compare at least that way. during this testing wind got calmer and I finally flew WP missions. The day before I almost crashed in GPS hold mode - because the battery lead was too close to the compass gps unit... this all added to my insecurity while flying :)
@@Rcschim i wonder if fresnel effect is worse over trees, i think you still had los but it was very close. it such an easy mistake to make when you increase the distance, even when i sit and look and study things far away, when i get there it all looks so different, my last mountain session had at least 3 times i lost los, but no drop outs, signal must have bounced. anyway the tests are still useful, the helical's held 25mbs all the way, and nobody wants to fly with bad signals, especially with a turn around.
With the 7 turn i get only 200 meters further than the stock dji antennas
This is a fantastic video, but I'm confused about your test half way through on the issue with the curvature of the earth? Did you fix this issue after you discovered it in the other half of the video? I've also seen videos were output power doesn't make a difference in the total possible range of the DJI system. How far do you think the 3 turn helical or 7 turn helical can go on 1000mw. (As i'm flying in the us an we aren't limited by the 25mw rule). I've been able to fly about 2 miles on 1000mw with the iflight patch antennas. (3.1km) I've heard of people here in the us getting close to 3 miles. I'd really like to be able to fly 5 miles (8km) with DJI. Do you think the deathray would get that reach at 1200mw?
With some decent antennas (like the 3turn) you should easily get 3miles. I heard the new hardlimit with 50mbit mode is now double the range like it was before (fixedwing FPVers were stopped abruptly around 4miles because there is a sync pulse - very fast - and if the distance is to much the system get's out of sync and looses it - even if received signal is still pretty good.
Now it should be ~ 8miles...
that being said, I think my furthest flight until now were 3km - because I'm a chicken :) see my other range test video here - there I flew much higher - so nothing get's in the way: ruclips.net/video/NoSAm22bs5E/видео.html
also check this comparison of range with the different antennas at different powerlevels. it's an interpolated estimate - but you see for example: increasing from 700mw to 1200mw doesnt give you a huge gain in range ;) bit.ly/3iKdlch
@@Rcschim OMG that sync pulse totally explains the reason output power doesn't affect total distance. I agree though, you can get further on 50mbs. I'll checkout those helica's and give them a try. Thank you!
I understand it's been awhile, but with the Avata now out, the discussion had turned to connect patch diagonally. As I understand it V2 receives from upper right and lowers left (from behind the goggles view) Curious if you have thoughts on this.
Hi Brandon, I heard the theory of diagonal being better. This russian guy here made an impressive testflight:
Diagonal Omni / Patch Combo (Omni: left top, right bottom from inside!)
as suggested by RS and seen by Anik FPV ruclips.net/video/yNMMQkyqfRE/видео.html
I have a lot of thoughts on antenna-tests but hadn't have the time to do these time consuming tasks sadly.
Now O3 is out and I wanna test it. And I'm quite sure it will perform so well that the whole antenna discussion is a bit less important (it just works ;)
The weather also isn't really helping these days. short days - and mostly foggy or snowy ;)
@@Rcschim I ended up talking with a Dji tech who also said diagonal is the correct way. So I tried both diagonal setups and was unimpressed. Then I went patch to the top 2 and omni original on the bottom and was blown away. Of course, I don't have technical empirical statistics, but anecdotally I gained not only about 2x the distance, but also now have below the horizon connection, which is a game changer for me flying in the canyons of west Texas. Thank you for all you do to keep us all informed!
Any chance of testing some linear antennas? I use linear dipoles on my quad and two Biquad directional antennas on the goggles (left ports). Has worked well out to 6+ miles at 1W. But I'm curious how my setup stacks up to the 3/5/7 turn helicals.
well, technically I already tested linear antennas. check the video I linked at the endroll (right bottom corner) where I drive around with my RCcar. I used ordinary linears ;) I suspect that the stock DJIs are also not to much circular and that DJI can use linear antennas quite well since multipath interference doesnt matter too much (or maybe even help) in their system it seems...
@@Rcschim Haven't seen any Biquads yet though. :-)
i have a fat shark dominotor 2 im new in fpv what set of antenna if i want to upgrade my antenna, wich one should i get? the cheapest on the market. thank's
Hi Jay, and welcome in a great hobby, I wanna suggest this antennatest video I did: ruclips.net/video/inXNLnGXewo/видео.html
►OVERVIEW (with pics & links) bit.ly/2XI0PRq
Hi, Im considering buying a new anntena for my fpv goggles. Which one would you suggest out of the "Lumenier AXII 2 long range right-angle antenna" or the "Foxeer lollipop 3 15cm right-angle antenna" The Lumenier is $27 and the Foxeer is $15. Is the Lumenier a much better antenna? If yes, why? Thanks!
You're talking about analog fpv right? It's hard to say if the Lumenier is almost double as good as the Foxeer without having it tested ;) Until now I think I only had Foxeers on my bench, and they at times cloned Lumenier (axii) when they stopped doing this their antennas performed worse (Lollipop2 vs 1).
Br, Mario
@@Rcschim Yes analog fpv. I really like my lollipop 3 antennas. They seem to work great, but Im curious if the lumenier AXII ones are actually twice as good.
Why did you ignore the VAS cyclops? We've gone 3.6mi plus on it for the 700mw
Didn't ignore it, but it is too expensive for me if I already have good antennas and don't like how bulky it is. But I would definitely test it if Alex would send it over ;)
Wait, there’s left and right hand? (I’m new), great, more things to add to my confusion. Should I just order the axii combo? (I think it’s a patch and stubby combo? Sorry I’m new)
Or will 4 stubby be still better than stock (and more than enough for noobs like me?)
hehe, if you want to buy DJI airunit antennas they are sometimes labeled as HD digital antennas, or DJI digital, then they are normally LEFT.
All the "older" antennas on the market which we used for analog FPV were defaulted to RIGHT. That's what most pilots used.
So if you get a lot of old Analog antennas, they can still work fine for you, but you need to swap the copters antenna as well to RIGHT.
And it sure adds to the confusion that you have different connectors: SMA, RP SMA, mmcx and UFL
Got me thinking that this might be worth an short explanation video for guys like you. greets, Mario
@@Rcschim yeah, too many acronyms (same reason I’m thinking of buying same brand or at least the ones I see in video’s that people make a pair of)
Please help out a noob like me, save me from more confusion. If I were to upgrade my antenna, which one should I get? Nothing too expensive, and if possible something that will work with bpi analog adapter? (I don’t have them yet but likely to buy in the future)
I see some combination, th axii ( combination of stubby and patch?)
cheapest and best overal working combo for me is the iFlight CrystalHD pack (with Stubbies). around 70$. or the Axii HD patch + stubbies.
will reply with a link in seperate comment.
It will also work with analog adaptor - but remember that you also need LEFT antennas then on your analog copter to match - else you will have reduced range (about 50% less I estimate).
here's the link to crystalHD (I like it since it looks nice and comes in different paint jobs):
de.banggood.com/IFlight-Crystal-HD-Patch-5_8GHz-9dBi-Directional-Circular-Polarized-High-Gain-Flat-Panel-FPV-Antenna-LHCP-RP-SMA-With-Casing-Mushroom-Antenna-Combo-for-DJI-FPV-Goggles-p-1763005.html?ad_id=530578876031&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1dGJBhD4ARIsANb6OdlW9u3OgZwiXH_3O2CHvDXobbfPP_BeFnpp7jz7cF-r4MFctfY4JQQaAv-xEALw_wcB&cur_warehouse=USA&ID=6303749
@@Rcschim thanks, so other antennas can work in combination, I thought brands would have to be the same. Thank you
In an earlier video you concluded that patches on the left was best and now you don't mention anymore, what changed?
do you mean the video where I tested many antennas while driving with an RC car? I think I also stated there that patch testing with the car wasnt really conclusive there ;)
With the RCCar I just didnt get far away to see any real difference - rather the random propagation of reflections...
How do you think the 3 turn helicals would do against the TrueRC X-Air antennas?
I guess the 3turns are similar maybe a bit below the Xair. Xair should be between 3 and 5turn helicals.
The 3turn helicals are among the most convenient "longrange" antennas for these goggles!
VAS sent me the new cyclops v2 - they now look decent (small compared to v1) and I will test their performance soon.
@@Rcschim Interesting! Thanks for the quick response!
I’ll be looking out for that cyclops v2 performance test!
@@Rcschim very excited to see the VAS Cyclops 2 test as well! Thanks for all the testing and analysis!
@@uscskierbro the test is online - but Vas cyclops performed below expectation here. in my stationary test the cyclops are a bit better than the 3turn helicals... this new test should be online in a few days.
@@Rcschim Excited to see your new test! Thank you!
.....I'll be back!
What power level was your crossfire on for this test?
Normally I fly with the Tango2 on auto mode - so max 250mw... but when CF gave me warnings I really left LOS and got behind the treetops (which I didnt consider since I thought I fly high enough...)
did you use different antennas on the quad? since the helicals are LHCP and the TrueRC Singularity f.e. are RHCP
nope, my TrueRC Singularity stubbies are LHCP (TrueRC uses different colors for RHCP vs LHCP)
Only back in the days I used RHCP when I wanted to use my old analog antennas (as there were plenty to choose from) that's where I chose to install RHCP on the copters.
But at some point I swapped to everywhere use LHCP.
Well: at least that was my intention! Some of the RTF copters lable their Copter TX Antennas with LHCP where they clearly have RHCP inside!!! So I opened all my antennas to verify. For example my RekonFPV Hexplorer was one of those with wrong antennas...
greets, Mario
@@Rcschim wow very interesting, thanks for clarifying! i checked out your other video where you open up all the antennas (older video) and i saw mostly RHCP antennas .. wanted to buy the speedybee antennas (also now in a V2 version available), but they are all only RHCP unfortunately, so will get other ones .. which one do you recommend for best range (if money doesn't matter) - thanks!
@@shotbyarian Recently I bought the TrueRC Singularity (with 12cm long cable) for my planes VTX (Airunit with 2 Ant). It has really good range compared to other plane with vista and one normal antenna).
On the RX side (goggles) I still prefer the 3turn Helicals. But I guess the Axii HD2 or chrystal patches are not bad either.
Wanted to do another comprehensive antenna testing - already started, but didnt have enough time...
@@Rcschim great thanks! will check them out! i already own the 3turn helicals since early 2022 when i saw your comparison video, they are really good and also still compact! just need to upgrade the short antennas to longer ones for long range, thanks! really looking forward to the new comparison video - already subscribed since a year or so, so will def. see it when released, thanks!
@@Rcschim where did you buy them since you also live in austria? i can't find them anywhere .. only on n-factory, but they are sold out
Good video
Can share a link to the 7turn antennas?
there's no online shop - just mail Henrik with questions or order this way. henrikjaderstrom84@gmail.com
some details are in my video description.
Are you sure those trees didn't get in the way? that was a fast fall off on those helicals.
*Well...seems I should have watched the rest of the video before making a stupid comment. Why don't you just stick an attenuator on the transmitter side? That's the way we used to test our gear YEARS ago. Can cut your measurements from hundreds of meters to only tens of meters.
that only shows you came to the right conclusion way quicker than I while testing :) but on the field it's always more difficult...
10db attis on all 4 ports would be worth a test. I need to order a few - I guess I only have 1 or 2. Will think about this - could make testing really much easier.
@@Rcschim Not all attenuators are going to be exactly the same. You better off only getting one and placing it at the source of the signal.
@@slinkyfpv sure - on the source rather than on the 4 antennaports of the goggles. sometimes I'm a bit slow at thinking ;)
Will do so and see what kind of range I'll get then. Maybe suddenly my smaller flightfield will just do! Thanks for your feedback!
@@Rcschim I wouldn't say your slow at thinking at all! You take your time and are more thorough than many. I watch your content before JB's when it comes to measurement and weighing results.
@@Rcschim yes very good idea as you would not even have to fly, you could just have the quad stationary but the question is how far away it would have to sit
This just proves that DJI got it perfect first time and the others cost but give zero improvement. Altitude is irrelevant if all were tested at the same height.
@@voxtelnismo Perhaps you missed what I wrote here. "Altitude is irrelevant if all were tested at the same height".
:( I watched but didn't figure what I was meant to learn.. trees block signal?
Yep, it was dissapointing to me that my faulty test setup invalidated the results. But since all antennas had the same disadvantage it's still not a total waste of time (I hope).
Also you could have learnt here how to easily convert your SRT files to CSV and load them into Excel - if you're nerdy enough ;)
@@Rcschim :) thanks. Not yet but I will. I'm still hopeful to export BF logs to SRT.
@@fpvwing do you know Gal Kremers nice website tool which does exactly this? kremerfpv.info/#subtitles
@@Rcschim thanks! By the way, since only bottom left is really used for longer range, is directional worth it for others 3 antennas? I've got crystal, thinking of cyclops mini, but maybe just need a patch on bottom left!?
@@fpvwing I admit I still dont fully understand how those 4 antennaports really work. In tests we just saw that the bottom left is quite important.
I dont think that the other 3 are not needed. Using just 1 patch or 3turn on the lower left didnt give me the same worry free range than using 4 directionals. Cyclops mini is also a good choice! Single Patches are mostly not convenient enough to mount or not pointing in a good direction...
7:52 ı want buy!
I suggest the 5turn but just check my infobox to find heriks email. He doesn't have a shop yet. Greets
@@TheYoukill I dont sell them, email Henrik: henrikjaderstrom84@gmail.com
@@Rcschim I'm sorry, I thought you sold it.
What u clearly see is - that u spend too much money for nothing. There ist NO really more range - but u loose ~ 100$. Thats it. Thats true. Thats reallity. Stop all that forum antenna hoaxes...
Nope, wait for my next video, probably tomorrow. There i use the same antennas but this time flying higher. There the difference is greater...
Greets, Mario
Nope not true at all, I tested mine with like 4 different brands in a bunch of configurations, and got noticblly bettery signal/distance using aftermarket antenna. I settled on Triump stubby omnis on top and Lumenier Axii patch on bottom. (standard white patch ones, not ones made for dji goggle)
There's also many youtubers that have ran distant test, all with similar results.
It’s technicaly impossible that we gain signal power(we know that by transmition speed) with no range extension. At some point Mario had some big signal loses from trees.
In open air signal should not go down so rapidly.
Wow impressive thanks for doing this !
hehe: funny co-incidence! In my mailbox I see youtube comments. Yours came after another user. his Nick is FPV_addicts - and you go with FPV REHAB ;)