Thank you very much for watching and special thanks to Neon for making me that sweet intro! To answer some of your questions or confusions; "OmG buT ssj4 woUld Lose so Hard!" Keep in mind, I am only using DBZ Super Saiyan Blue Goku, which has different scaling than Super. I stated this at the very start of the video. "Uhh, but Heroes showed Blue and SSJ4 to be somewhat equal!"- Game characters are FAR stronger than GT or Super characters, so that is irrelevant, "Why did you downplay Kid GT Goku?" I said he would be 50x of SSJ3 Z Goku at least, meaning he would still be above Super Buu and the majority of Buu saga characters. So the Infant Baby>=Super Buu argument is not contradicted whatsoever. "Why did you give Goku a 10x boost for training?" Explained this in the video, but Goku got at least 8-10x more powerful as his MSSJ state>Majuub who was>SSJ3 Baby Saga Goku. Then, in Super, we see that Goku got at least 10x stronger from the U6 arc to the end of the Goku Black arc since he needed kaioken x10 to keep up with Hit, then, in the rematch he didn't need it whatsoever. "GT can be scaled to the movies" That can be argued, but the series only takes in account a few movies and the main events of Z happened, meaning several movies could not have taken place at the same time. I will do a video on this at some point though. ""Where did you get SSJG=SSJ3 Vegito?" It is the only way to calculate SSJG 's power using the official multipliers and statements. Never claimed that God multiplier was official or anything of the sorts. Regardless, I still proved that even with insane lowballing, SSJ4 is just BARELY stronger.
Hay Chuck, I can't help but feel that somebody should make a video on how powerful highballed Super Goku could be. If you applied all the biggest head cannon Multipliers that are reasonable. Think of it this way: I want you to make me die of a heart attack just looking at how big the numbers get.
Video was innaccurate. Your first mistake was using a BOG MOVIE line even after bog movie was retconned, because in Super goku said he dosent THINK fusion would be enough. never included the fact that rage vegeta used 10% of berrus. But never minding all of this missed information, Ssj4 > ssj blue. And that's indisputable facts. I don't care what you are or what following you have, or even what you think you are in this community. If you dare challenge me, you're going to get exposed and debunked. I don't know if you want to be embarrassed in front your sucribers...
When makin vids on numbers explain the outcomes then show a chart with the math on so people can double check it for themselves cause people get confused with all the numbers i agree SSB is far stronger then SS4 but alot people dont think so
Just a Robot I'm glad I found your channel a while ago, you gave me videos to listen to while I'm at work where I'm not allowed to wear earphones 10/10
I agree with this. But, despite SSJ4 being weaker, I still like the design of SSJ4 much more. Especially considering it has to do with the saiyan's roots, involving the great ape form and stuff.
Super saiyan god is also less of a primal form so it doesn’t have that cool of a design. Although given the look of super saiyan blue evolution, if super saiyan blue 2 looks like a more refined, spiky, and electrified version of super saiyan blue evolution, then it could potentially look really really cool. I kinda wished super saiyan 2 was much spikier tho so it could be much easier distinguished from super saiyan 1.
Considering the fact that Son Goku is the japanese translation of the chinese name Sun Wukong, also known as the Monkey King, the buddhist god of battle I would say SSJ4 has a much better design. It pays homage to the actual god. Considering most of Goku's personality, abilities and design in general are already taken from that god it only makes sense that his final form should be a more literal interpretation of that. Just my opinion though. If you don't believe me there's a great youtube series on Sun Wukong you can watch.
@@exoticspeedefy7916 dragon ball z heroes isnt a show. Did you mean super dragon ball heroes? Also its not an equal comparison due to the fact that goku:xeno and Vegeta:xeno are stated to have far more experience than goku and vegeta and therefore that is partially why there was a power difference. Another thing to note is that ssj4 is a dead end. It doesnt get any more powerful than it is. Look at super saiyan blue and the variants to itn
@@blackbird7781 Which proves my point xeno goku ss4 is on par with blue. I would go as far to say slightly more powerful because of how xeno goku and vegeta held up against cunber (Xeno goku base is actually stronger than goku) However it takes much more effort as you stated fighting experience to do so. The reason xeno goku never had the training to become ssgb only because he was never visited by berus in that universe. Ultra instinct however is far beyond ss4
You forgot something important. In GT Goku is a kid and said when he was facing Super Android 17 that he could beat him pretty easily if he was in his adult form
Masterkjmoney It doesn't need to beat everyone to be good. Look at UI. It lost on its first appearance and once it got mastered but never failed to maintain that godly feeling of being in a whole new realm of power. SSB and SSJ4 seemed dominating in the beginning but then Baby was too strong for Goku as an Oozaru and in the end RoF Golden Freeza was stronger than Blue. And the forms just kept getting overused to the point where it didn't even feel as an important thing when they transformed.
Yeah but some GTtards will still tell you since Goku was getting beat up by kefla that means his weaker then buu saga fusions. Even though Goku pratically had 0 stamina and Ki at the time and could only sustain ssjb kaioken for like 3 seconds. 🤣
@@relentlesschaos835 also kefla is actually powerful... her ssj1 is equal to the spiritbomb that is far above pre zenkai X20 Goku blue, and ssj2 had enough power to kill omen 2
Why do i not understand the gt hate? I enjoyed it wasnt perfect but wasnt all that bad. I still need to watch the buu arc from z though...soon i will. Soon.
I don’t know it’s pretty bad tbh and I watched gt all the way through it’s just a major downgrade from z . The fights , the characters , gt is exclusively a story about goku too which hasn’t been the case since the og dragon ball . They introduced all these amazing characters just for gt to sideline literally every single one of them . Make them all useless in fights outside of goku and even the goku fights were so slowly/poorly choreographed that they aren’t even as fast paced as original dragon ball fights which is weird considering they should be much stronger and faster in gt . Moronic plot lines that were made for children which again is kind of wierd considering z was quite mature and even brutal at times . It’s like they forgot how to make characters look powerful . The Frieza fight alone from z has more work put in it than every fight in gt combined battles no longer have much hand to hand and instead of fusing martial arts they just do really lazy simple choreography even the radditz and vegeta battles had more meaningful choreography . The hand to hand combat in gt is literally almost non existent
I liked GT mostly for first Arc, which was basically original Dragon Ball IN SPAAAAAAAACE, which I kinda liked - the Buu arc bored shit out of me - and the Shadow Dragons Arc. Mostly for it actually. And that's becouse it has show the real consequences of overusing the Dragon Balls. You know, those things that the SHOW was called after and was in the most part just a mass res/status quo device thingy so people would not die out. And that great ending - damn, I love that soundtrack from the japanese version of GT.
BaranZenon yes this is true I’ve actually been re watching some gt lately and if they had put a little bit more effort in the fight choreography gt could have been great . The baby saga is honestly badass
@@123NERDZ I think people that love dbs love the aspect of action comedy more in z Why people that love gt love action comedy +a lingering adventure theme form original
*Solgaleo* Because people are idiots that is why. I'm sure someone is going to give the lame excuse of "opinion", but I'm don't bite it. After all it is used when someone has nothing valid to say.
This is really well thought out, and the multipliers just end up being insanely high on both sides! I’m a fan of both forms, and seeing them both get the credit they deserve is awesome!
I actually very recently re-watched the Goku vs Syn/Omega Shenron fight from GT. Goku's SSJ4 was amped significantly when he fought Omega Shenron because he had received ki from SSJ Gohan, Goten and Trunks. IIRC they even called it Goku "going beyond his limits", as Gohan was worried Goku was taking too much ki for his body to handle. Goku named this amped state "Ultra-full-power Saiyan 4" in the Japanese version. Goku went from his SSJ4 being weaker than Syn Shenron to be able to mop the floor with him, which is what forced Syn to absorb the Dragon Balls to turn into Omega Shenron.
Exactly. Plus they forgot to mention *_Full-Power SSJ4_* as mentioned when Goku battled against Baby. Resulted SSJ4 Goku taking no damage from " _Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta's:_ *_Final_* _Revenge Death Ball_" ... which is dramatically stronger than the Original " _Revenge Death Ball_ " due to Golden Oozaru transformation
@@aercaux226 it doesn't matter tournament of power goku or resurrection of friends goku can still beat ssj4 goku and post top goku shots on ssj4 in base form
A black shinobi?! Of course, we know Ssb Goku is stronger but I just hate when people downplay ssj4 Goku and on top of that ssj4 Goku has so much more potential to tap into
Edititing was good, the information was mis consutreded and his conclusion comeptlyl innaccurate. GT fodders stomps super. BASE KEFLA is shown to be stronger then than ssj god, THEREFORE SSJ GOD in BOG WASN'T AS STRONG BASE VEGITO (Since Bog only takes place a few months after Buu), and in the anime goku needed kaioken x 20 to combat an ssj kefla. Baby great 1 was already stated to be above ssj vegito, and ssj4 was way stronger. so ssj4>>>>>ssj blue, these are facts only.
Your logic makes no sense goku and vegeta got massive power boosts in those “few months after buu” that’s just in base too, put forms on top of that and their power is way above GT level
I feel like you're overlooking the fact that because Battle of Gods is a movie and thus takes place in the movie dimension, Goku could have been referring to Gogeta rather than Vegito. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta would both know the fusion dance and Goku would (or should) have known that he can't just obtain the potara for the Vegito fusion, arguably increasing the chance he's referring to Gogeta.
I mean I know Gogeta isn't canon which was the whole point of bringing up the movie universe, but I've never heard any of those statements so I have no idea who says they're what. I just know they *are* movies which is where I drew my conclusion.
supersoniclegend dude (or girl) he isn't saying EVERYONE who likes gt is a normie but saying that if u actually think that ssj4 wins in battle u gotta get some mental help, now stop being salty. Also only normies like this get so salty
supersoniclegend dude he clearly said that he was talking about before that event occurred. Plus only those at the peak of normies would literally search in the comments for someone to pick at.
BASE KEFLA is shown to be stronger then than ssj god, THEREFORE SSJ GOD in BOG WASN'T AS STRONG BASE VEGITO (Since Bog only takes place a few months after Buu), and in the anime goku needed kaioken x 20 to combat an ssj kefla. Baby great 1 was already stated to be above ssj vegito, and ssj4 was way stronger. so ssj4>>>>>ssj blue, these are facts only.
A black shinobi?! I don’t entirely know man, I don’t even think ultimate Gohan in dbs is ssg level cause Goku was holding back considerably. Remember how Ssb Goku heavily suppressed beat Toppo easily and ultimate Gohan AND 17 couldn’t beat a suppressed Toppo but then again Gt Gohan can be stronger than Gt Goku
SSJG/SSJB > SSJ4! Goku went from being multi solar system buster in SSJ3 to at least multi galaxy buster and high ball Universe buster in SSJG! SSJB is pretty much proved to be 50x multiplier of SSJG. A guide stated that Super Vegito (buu saga) rivaled or might even surpassed SSJ4 (probably talking about the form) also GT never showed any Universe busting feats, Omega shenron was at least a multi galaxy buster.
Except ssb isn't 50x ssg as ssbk goku was weaker than suppressed ssj kefla who was only 50x her 10,000x base form, dbs goku is only a low universe buster with mui as before that he's been weaker than the gods who aren't even macroversal as they fear macroversal destruction and beerus was stated to be obliterated by macroversal destruction not to mention that astral zamasu only became one macroverse and was stated by the kais to have godly power beyond their comprehension which further confirms that macroversal>gods>dbs goku pre mui The guide was referring to a what if scenario in which goku and vegeta became vegito in gt, we know this because it states they become super vegito and not became super vegito and it states that goku and vegeta were the strongest warriors when they only time they were the strongest warriors was in gt, the guide upscales the ssj4 form as it's saying that even vegito as a ssj may not be enough for the base version of ssj4, which confirms base ssj4 multiplier>potara multiplier amped by ssj>ssbk>ssb>ssg, and if u really want to get technical xenoverse even has the ssj4 form above both ssb and ssg as stated by goku that he never felt anything as strong as ssj4 which puts it above ssg and when ssb goku admits that ssj4 goku is too strong, both were rof Gt goku in his base form casually shook the afterlife while simply powering up which is a casual multi universal feat as the afterlife dwarfs the living universe in size, and since powering up Is a miniscule portion of a users power and shaking an area is destroying it overtime this means that a fullpower blast from base gt goku in the s17 arc would scale much higher than this, let alone as a ssj4, base sd arc goku pushes base nova to his final form, this same base nova was stated by goku that he's far stronger than any of the dragons he met up until now which includes black smoke shenron who was stated by elder kai and toei themselves to have POWER capable of destroying the entire macroverse, hell omegas sheer existence was destroying the macroverse lmao, the fact that you claim gt has nothing universal just shows that you didn't watch the series Gt>super
Djames Whis stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the universe 7 spirit bomb which in that case was more powerfull than SSJB Kaioken x20! SSJB Goku was able to swap hands with Kefla what pretty much proves that SSJB is indeed 50x multiplier or he would be outclassed! It was stated many times that SSJB (SSJG + SSJ). U.I Goku was stated to shake the entire world of void (same with Jiren) which is a 4th dimensional feat what way above Universal. Beerus and Champa stated to destroy universes if they fought each other, for you to say they arent even macroversal is obviously you being a GTard. M.U.I Goku > Jiren > SSJ2 Kefla >>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ4 Goku. The guide is was clearly referring to (buu saga Vegito) *After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto* This clearly meant for buu saga Vegito since GT Goku and Vegeta already can ascend to SSJ4. The guide even states that Potara multiplier >/= SSJ4 which means you obviously bullshiting (what the most GT fanboys known for). SSJG was stated many times to be superior than (Buu saga Vegito) and showed feat that blows Vegito away which confirms that SSJG > Super Vegito > SSJ4, Goku went from Multi solar system buster in SSJ3 to multi galaxy buster - Universe buster in SSJG which proves it gave a much higher increase. Xenoverse is also non canon to the story of DB just like GT! Just show me scans or screenshot were it was stated that Goku shook the entire afterlife you assume garbage without having any evidence, GT SSJ4 Goku is at least galaxy buster - multi galaxy buster. Omega Shenron can only destroy a universe “over time” which isnt considered to be Universal you fucking idiot. Omega Shenron was stated to be 10x stronger than before which means Omega Shenron (Multi Galaxy buster) > SSJ4 Goku what equals garbage.
Bro man... SSB is clearly over a 50x boost from ssg. Goku went from getting outright speed blitzed by Kefla to being able to swap hands with her in while she was in ssj, which is a 50x boost. In other words, this essentially PROVES that ssb is more than a 50x boost. What are you even talking about? If he can cover that much of a power distance with one form, SSB is more than x50.
I've only got one piece or criticism for this: the given multiplier for SSG Goku is only what he gets at the very start of being in his new form. Throughout the fight against Beerus, Goku's SSG power increases several times by an unspecified amount, but it's implied that from the start of it to right before Goku lost the transformation, he has become a *lot* more powerful than he used to be, continually pushing into several attacks with the power to destroy the universe. In the case of the baby arc, we know for a fact that SSJ4 Goku's power ends up being a fixed one, because he goes from holding back to fighting on par against Golden Oozaru Baby, with no apparent increase to his power, not counting Super Full Power, since what that does is break the limits of his transformation by getting ki from other saiyans. This also makes me wonder why you don't talk about feats that much, because that's a really big part of how a character's power is gauged in DB, too.
Super Saiyan 4 is the most overrated transformation in all of DB both in power and design and it's shame when it's compared to Super Saiyan Blue because that form is the most over hated in all of DB and half the time it's really unnecessary hate. Alot of people that hate Blue hate for dumb reasons such as being a "recolor palette swap" which is stupid as hell if you're talking about simplicity. Literally every single Super Saiyan design in Z is so plain that there's barely any difference between them. Super Saiyan- spiky blonde hair Ascended Super Saiyan- same hair but big muscles Super Saiyan 2- same hair again but spikier and added electricity Super Saiyan 3- extra long hair and no eyebrows Half the time you can't even tell the difference between Super Saiyan 1 and 2 with certain characters unless they have an aura but yet Blue has the "trash design" At least Blue and the rest of the God forms in Super have some originality to it that makes it different from all the other classic Super Saiyan forms by changing colors. I will give Super Saiyan 4 on the other hand SOME credit for trying to be unique but I honestly don't see why it's so hype in the fandom and honestly is my least favorite form. It's waay too over the top(golden ape but ends up having red fur and black hair???) It's confusing as hell(where do goku's clothes come from when he reverts back) it tries too hard to be "cool and edgy" it's a form that came out of nowhere with no backstory or build-up just "hey elder kai knows about ssj4 all of sudden" and on top of that it's a literal asspull(when they pull goku's tail out his ass). At the end of the day I'd much rather have simple designs then overcomplicated ones anyday
@@guythatgoesbythenamekay7954 No i say that why Blue is really Shit that looks like an normal Super saiyan with Blue Hairs the ssg looks so much better than the Blue.
@@supersaiyajin4goku263 you have got to be the dumbest person ive ever met🤣 you said ssj blue looks like shit because it look's like ssj with blue hair then u said ssj god looks better EVEN THOUGH ssj god looks like base form fucking goku with red hair dye and somehow that's better than ssj blue? Yeah gtfo🤣🤦♂️☠
Because people don't understand how to porperly power scale in the community SSJ4 is way stronger then ssj blue. Facts only. Seth said BoG movie was retconned but then eneded up using a line excerpt from the BoG movie to prove his point. That's wank. Base kefla is already stronger then ssj god THEREFORE Base potroa fusion >>>> ssj god. Super great baby 1 was stated to already be above super vegito and ssj4 is like many times stronger than that. ssj kelfa was ale to match an ssj x 20 kaioken goku, this means that ssj4 > super great baby 1 > ssj portra fusion = ssj blue kaioken x 20 > ssj blue > base potra fusion > ssj god.
I disagree tbh, I think if you go by feats ssj god completely shit stomps ssj4. Omega Shenron was a macroversal threat over time whereas Beerus clashing with a Goku fresh ssj God form was threatening the macroverse instantly
Escanor Lion's Sin of Pride Base Goku (Super) (RoF Arc) could probably take SSJ4 Gogeta. If Omega was going to universe bust overtime and he was about 10x stronger than SSJ4 Goku, then SSJ4 Gogeta is only about 2.4-9.6x Omega. Going by the "dozens of times" statement in the GT perfect files. It's generous to say that SSJ4 Gogeta is universal, and to be even more generous I'll say SSJ4 Gogeta = SSJG Goku (BoG Arc). Goku was stated stronger than when he fought Beerus in his base, so logically Base Goku (RoF Arc) > SSJ4 Gogeta.
Ssb is faaaaaaarr stronger. Ssb is a lot stronger than Ssg. Super Saiyan God Goku is stronger than Super Vegito from Z. That means the increase would have to be bigger than the A x B x 50 (Base Goku x Base Vegeta x ssj multiplier. Basically a z Vegito) which is actually downplay since the mssj multiplier is bigger than 50 times. Also Super Saiyan Blue was proven to be bare minimum 50 times Super Saiyan God, when Base Kefla was shown ahead of Ssg Goku, but in when Goku is in Ssb he can take on fully controlled Berserk Kefla. And the Berserk multiplier was proven to be huuggge. So yeah power wise Ssb godstomps Ssj4
Dank memester He just talked about ssb power he didn’t talk about Goku’s power cause I’m GT kid Goku’s power could also be comparable to vegitos power since just a base Goku as a kid in Gt was much higher than a ssj3 Goku from z
Black Saiyan God and beginning of super goku was stronger than ssj vegito because he said potara cant fight beerus but god could so it would make him stronger than an end of z super vegito so super is still stronger in his base form since he absorbed it unless your talking about the manga
Dank memester It’s hard to pinpoint which one we’re talking about. Ok so in the movie (even if it isn’t reliable) the vegito statement was actually never made and in fact Beerus and Super Saiyan god was much weaker in the BOG movie. How much stronger I’m not entirely sure but I know I’m the BOG movie Goku was NEVER universal, he never had a clash with Beerus that threatened the universe which honestly they should’ve went with in the show because they made the God forms too powerful in Super for them to ultimately lose in fights. But in Super, Goku just absorbed all the power of the ssj god and stacked ssj on it. In the movie he just retained SOME power. Personally I’d say it’s like this Super Goku > Full Powered Super Saiyan 4 Goku (dragon balls absorbed) > BOG Goku
Ssj4 May be weaker, but I’ll be damn if it isn’t THE coolest form ever! Also, I’ve been saying forever that God and 4 are matched, and Blue was probably stronger.
BOB IGOR RUINED STAR WARS NOT JUST KATHLEEN Could you cite your source on where you found out that Super’s universes only contain 28 planets? Also, according to the Kanzenshuu, Omega is not Universal at all, he could potentially destroy everything in the universe in ~30 days, but not the actual universe.
Super saiyan 4 looks cool as hell. Far better than blue, but i still think blue is stronger. Also Zeno deleted a couple universes in a few seconds so... well.... you cant say that omega is more powerful. Especially when Zeno can kill that which is unkillable
Did they ever retcon the whole " the absorbed God power into their base"? Cause it makes no sense that Future trunks would be equal (or at least comparable) to a Base Goku/Vegeta also if you have God power in base, how can you stack SSJ God ontop of that? dont you already have it?
MedicEne I think what they meant, sorry if I’m wrong since it’s confusing, that Goku absorber the power of imperfect God and turned it into regular Ki. So he’s able to use God Ki now, not sure where he pulls it from, but is just stronger in general as well. Going Saiyan God is like using all his God Ki that he can and going Blue is going Super Saiyan on top of that.
What I find interesting about the god ki, and using it in base form, is that while Goku and Vegeta trained with Whis they learned it by accident in their base forms as well. So that would mean that they can even basically boost their power in their base forms at a whim, although it won't be as strong as their transformations since their base does still have a limit. It's just using a "different" ki.
Powerscaling in Super just sucks too much. Ssjg 320k times stronger than ssj3? Thats why a shitty potara fusion of 2 weaker saiyans stomped goku ssjg in base form. Which is supposed to be TENS of times stronger than both individuals together. (Stated by Vados).. pls don't comment with "goku was tired" shit again even at 1% of his max power he should stomp them. This kinda debunks all of this again. In terms of design and everything else basically ssj4 >>> all of supers forms
Unlike ssjb at least ssj4 has more character and feels more like a god 😐, idc if blue shit stomps ssj4. Personally I say ssj4 design and transformation is miles above blue
Tbh Gohan Calvo or Gohan Blanco 100 por ciento is stronger so these videos are worthless. I won't even get into Shaghan or Shaghan verde not to mention Shaghan Calvo. Not to mention Duracell or Cell Perffecion.
Hold up you said that the ss4 multiplier isnt what we think it is, its actually much higher and you're going to cover it in the next video but you still used the 8-10x multiplier for ss4. So if thats the case isnt the second half of the video where you discuss the gt scaling completely pointless? (if i missed something im sorry lol)
being able to use god ki means they dont have to take damage from normal ki blasts, though thats never shown in the series for whatever reason beerus said it himself that god ki nulifies normal ki
Yes, but now that super is concluding we can look back with hindsight. We have a better understanding of the power levels now than 1-2 years ago when those videos were made.
Didn’t expect dis vid I’m waiting on da SSJ4 multiplier vid doe Nice vid I would have a comment on the power but I’ll save dat pretty good & good in-depth on ssj4 haven’t seen GT in a while
IMO Power: Super Saiyan Blue > Super Saiyan 4 > Super Saiyan God Design: Super Saiyan 4 > Super Saiyan Blue >>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan God Name: Super Saiyan God > Super Saiyan 4 >>>>>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan Blue / Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Edit: I am going solely on the forms themsleves and not Goku at the time
Super Saiyan God is stronger than Super saiyan 4 Super Saiyan 4 have the same strength as vegito ssj goku after be defeated by beerus in ssj3, he admitted that even with the fusion they could not beat him and the super saiyan god surpassed their expectations, saying that he had never felt such power.
Goku said fusion wouldn't work. For starters, Goku couldn't even sense Beerus power level so how would he actually know whether or not fusion would work? Also when I think fusion I think both Potara and just regular fusion. I'll grant you that Gogeta would have gotten spanked by Beerus but I refuse to believe Beerus could beat Vegito. The only reason you assume Vegito would lose is because Goku, who couldn't even tell how powerful Beerus was, said it probably wouldn't work. When Beerus hit Bulma Vegeta attacked Beerus and hit him hard enough to draw blood, but I'm supossed to believe Vegito stands no chance? Yeah right lol
There is no way in hell that GT Goku was still weaker than Vegito after training for 15 years. Especially since he trained against an equal power to his own for 5 of those years. His power boost should have been way higher than that. Also he totally glossed over the powered up versions of SSJ4. Full Power SSJ4 and Ultra Full Power SSJ4 give him a good boost and that fact was completely ignored. He applied the Dragon Fist multiplier without even considering the boost from obtaining these power ups.
2 androids fusing was holding his own against ssj4 so if that is the case who is to say that its wrong dont blame the form blame the logic of gt which is why its not cannon
@@stormyluffy7046 Those same to Androids were able to fuse hell and heaven together by simply powering up. And are hundreds of times stronger than a Goku who was able to destroy a universe and shake Heaven and Hell but yeah sure Android Saga villains.
@@waffleten9750 since somebody deleted the other thread, ill reply here. goku didnt destroy a universe, or even a dimension. in the japanese version, the dimension was already being torn apart. all he did was open a doorway with a kamehameha. he also didnt shake heaven, just hell.
vegito was the culmination of vegeta and goku in a potara fusion, which is more efficient than the metamorese fusion dance. we also never saw his max power as he did have the ability to go ssj3 since goku was able to. he was also able to take a beating from buuhan without a scratch to show for it while in base form. buuhan combined not only buu's power, but gohan and the kids. gohan in ultimate form was more than a match for ssj3 goku. as for gt kid goku being equal to buu, the best theory i have heard so far was that he was referring to kid buu. ssj3 goku was able to go toe to toe with kid buu and even blow him apart several times while he was able to fend off attacks from kid buu with little actual physical damage. he did succeed in overpowering him several times. kid buu had one thing that uub, even majuub, never had. magical regeneration of stupid proportions. it took a spirit bomb powered by an entire planet to overwhelm his regen and destroy him completely. so saying that kid goku in base is equal to kid buu isnt as great as people make it out to be. plus, the only thing that even ssj4 gogeta did that was even remotely considered universal, quite generously at that, was kicking away omega's attack and transmuting it from negative to positive energy. that only really effected the planet. ssg goku was considered at least galaxy, if not universal level just by his fight with beerus alone. then you gotta take into account the difference in power between baby vegeta and beerus. beerus would have beaten the snot outta baby vegeta easily, and was easily capable of destroying a planet utterly by accident and not even noticing. baby vegeta, even in golden ape form, blasted all the way through earth with a gallick gun without destroying it, even though such an attack should have done so. ssj3 goku blasted all the way through the kai planet in a similar fashion. the planet of the kais was also larger than earth, and withstood a super spirit bomb powered by an entire planet of people, although heavily damaged.
Now, before I start I love Chuck's content and is extremely accurate on a lot of things. He does however low ball SSJG Goku, Goku states that if he fused with Vegeta, Vegito still wouldn't even stand a chance. BUt Goku was confident enough to fight Beerus as SSJG, and he even held back, which he revealed to Beerus when they were in the cave fighting. This would put Goku well above Vegito and I think he would be significantly stronger than what Vegito could be at that point, even as SSJ3
@@Fade12 I know, I just don't want people watching the video and underestimating him. Chuck has always been good at scaling, I just don't want people to lowball him or anything like that. And if I can help out I always try to. No hate on Chuck's part (he's actually one of my inspirations for me getting into power scaling)
and ur argument about goku being 10x stronger which u got from his fights with Hit is wrong for multiple reasons. 1 goku went kaioken x 20 not 10... 2 u don't take into account that Hit also got stronger... so if u were basing goku's strength of the fact that he didn't use kaioken then the multiplier would be greater than u stated in ur video. 3 the above 2 statement don't really matter tho because the only reason goku didn't use blue in the 2nd fight is because he didn't need to. and he didn't need to because hit didn't use time skip in the 2nd fight.... goku only used kaioken x 20 in the first fight because Hit was using time skip. it was stated that goku and vegeta were both more powerful in their blue forms that Hit was... the only reason Hit was winning is because he had timeskip. but in the 2nd fight Hit said he wasn't gonna result to using time skip so goku didnt have to use kaioken x 20. so using the fact that he didn't use the kaioken x 20 to say that goku was 20x stronger isn't a valid argument......
Look at it THIS way: SUPER SAIYAN 4: The more INTIMIDATING transformation. SUPER SAIYAN BLUE: The more POWERFUL transformation, because it uses GOD KI that can't be sensed.
LOOK at it THIS way: SUPER SAIYAN 4: The more INTIMIDATING transformation and stronger transformation due to the fact that he was able to beat a Shenron which is clearly a divine being in the form dimensional Dragon. SUPER SAIYAN BLUE: The more lesser tranformation. Just because it has God Ki doesn't mean that he is all strong. Yes, you might not be able to sense his Ki, but SSJ4 Goku has found ways to fight people without the use of his eyes once. He can focus on sound and use his Ki to feel differences in waves on the air...
does anyone play xenoverse? i think these guys have the answers to alot of future DB leaks, everytime i fight as ssj4 goku against whiz, he will say " Ah that form, yes, maybe now you can best lord berus"
GAMER F2P yeah a skilled player can shit stomp UI goku with a saibamen illogical lmafo same could be said when you fight all the forms of goku and vegeta they go ssj4 then gogeta ssj4 then defuse and fight in ssgss but....
I don't like your leaps in logic. We've never seen ssj3 vegito, not even ss2. Neither vegeta nor goku could even imagine how strong that version of vegito would be, so to say that ssjg Goku is equal to ssj3 vegito is plain ridiculous and bullshit. That makes literally zero sense. Yes false god goku is the strongest energy they ever felt, and a proper ssjg Goku was stronger than that initial burst, however, the ONLY energy that is stronger than, is Super Vegito and NOTHING else. Going from ssj1 vegito to saying that ssjg Goku is equal to ssj3 is a huge flaw in logic.
Z vegito is confirmed to be way inferior by feats alone so the best thing for God Goku to be scaled is a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito as a bare minimum with God Goku's abilities. Even then, a mere 8x multiplier to Vegito ain't going to cut it. And why do you say that none of the 2 of them would be able to imagine how powerful Vegito is when they themselves are basically a part of him, more or less having the memory of that battle. Buu had to resort using his hax to destroy the universe and most likely his full power. Goku and Beerus managed it by just brute force from being enhanced by God Ki and they were still testing the waters.
" _Z vegito is confirmed to be way inferior by feats alone_ " By your Logic, Jiren is vastly stronger than 17 through feats alone .... yet 17 still damaged Jiren Goku & Vegeta has never witness nor transformed into a SSJ3 while in Vegito - and DBH is a literally spin-off series that never happened. GT is more canon than DBH ... so don't even try to use that Canon Bullsh!t SSGSS Goku have been beaten by countless foes - mainly Hit - who does NOT use " _God Ki_ " - the term " _God Ki_ " is irrelevant. The most critical thing you - and most people - have forgetten... is that Goku never clarified which Fusion he was talking about - Fusion Dance or Potara Fusion. Plus, SSG Goku still loss to Beerus. Whose to say SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ2 Vegito could win ? Its just a lot of Guess work - with no solid evidence. Henceforth, the basis of this entire Vegito-segment ( in the video ) ... is Hypothetical - a literally guess that crumbles on itself once examined further
Aercau X the point of the video is to clarify if blue is strong than 4, i don't know people are bringing up stuff like this if it's already been settled
@Dr. Bright Anims exactly. So why do people claim SSGSS is stronger than SSJ4 if its already been settled ? is there a Thread/ Discussion/ Forums Site you'd like to mention ?
How about Goku after 100 years. That would be a great follow up to this video! While keeping in mind that Goku got a zenkai after the dragon saga. I wonder how massive his power must be!
SSJ4 should be made canon in the future. I mean they kind of already made Broly canon as a fan tribute when they introduced Kale, I don't see why not, especially since we know new saiyans are going to be introduced now in the upcoming movie. I really hope they consider it.
change hair color and power up wow so easily i like GT develop Super Saiyan form character is different in dragon ball super just only dye hair color =.....="
Ah yes, the dragon ball community: People with dyed hair screaming and flexing All kinds of neon hair colors and auras Alien monke people Insane fanmade transformations And math.
Ssj4 is meant to be the FINAL saiyans form. It’s supposed to be the ultimate form. That’s why gt goku keeps saying that ssj4 is his ultimate form. Gt may or show that much feats but you need to hear the statements. Also take into the account that gt goku is also connected to the movie dB universe while dbs goku is not
If we go by numbers alone, that would mean Android 17 got several quadrillion x stronger in the span of a couple years, just kickin around on an island. So I don't think numbers are really the best quantifier here. I think that from a narrative and story standpoint, aswell as what we've seen from the anime's: full power ssj4 is stronger than blue by only a little bit, but blue kiaoken and blue evolution are stronger than full power ssj4 by a definitive amount.
For anyone wondering why SSJ4 and SSJB seemed to be evenly matched in the Heroes trailer remember this is really Xeno Goku vs DBS Goku. Xeno Goku is a fucking monster even in his base form.
I have a story : GT goku faces off Super goku. However, super saiyan 4 goku is easily outclassed by super saiyan god goku. It was after this vegeta, gohan, trunks, pan and others come to learn how this god form is summoned. So, they did whatever they had to do(I don't remember clearly). So ssj4 goku now transforms into super saiyan god on top of ssj4. He is easily much stronger than dbs ssg goku but dbs goku had much more training as a god. So he transforms into super saiyan blue and put up a good fight against ssj4 god goku and defeats him. Now for everyone's suprise ssj4 goku stands up again and he has white eyes and white aura around him. Beerus was extremely shocked and said "Is that ultra instinct!!!!!!" Whis was shocked and replied:"No, it is something much more than that!!!" Beerus:"Much more than that?!!" Goku starts powering up and the earth shattered and the whole universe was shook while dbs goku and others were terrified. He powered up further while the whole universe was shaking and with a huge explosion goku achieves a completely new transformation with white long hairs like ssj3 and with buffed body and a monstorous look in his eyes(Super Saiyan 5). Ssb goku as well as ssb vegeta instantly decided to jump in and attacked him with all of their power. But he took all of it like it was nothing and didn't even move. He then tightened up his fist gathered some power and within a fraction of nanosecond appered behind ssb goku and vegeta and landed a punch that was so powerful that the whole solar system crumbled and goku and vegeta instantly died. Beerus decides to join in but super saiyan 5 goku was dodging all of his attacks (ultra instinct). Ssj5 goku then started powering up for a kamehameha which was as big as a planet. But instantly goku's body exploded and died immediately. The side effect for ultra instinct on top of ssj4 god form was too much that it killed goku. Whis then came back 2 minutes in time and stops ssj4 goku from ever transforming. I know this contains a lot of flaws like How can he achieve ultra instinct right away or how can god form and ssj4 be mixed. But I just find it interesting this way. Feel free to change the story so that it makes more sense. I just had the idea that what if ssj5 goku was actually a evolved form of ultra instinct (due to its white hair).
If GT would've gone the "SUPER route" - meaning SSj4 = New Base Form - Going SSj on SSj4 (A Goldish SSj4) - Then being able to do Kaioken then GT would've been more awesome.
why do supertards always say that? they are always like "ssjb stomps 4 cant wait to see the fanboys rage" it just making you sound like the biggest idiot
No real way. Super Saiyan God Goku near his maximum power was able to destroy the entire universe so that's around 7 universes when compared to our own. GT Goku on the other hand is cannon to not only the original show (not Kai) but also the movies and Super Saiyan 3 Goku in Fusion reborn was able to shake heaven and Buhan was able to destroy the universe. And because GT Goku is stronger than his old self and buhan in base that makes his Super Saiyan transformation far stronger than God Goku in BOG and remember Goku gets stronger than that in his base form and that's just continues in GT. The guy in this video is mega wrong
SSJ4 Goku can tank the heat of the sun, adapt to attacks so that they won't work twice (sometimes), react to an opponents movement before they even make it (even blind), and stay durable against opponents much more powerful than he is. These feats are impressive and unique to this form. I'd say that he would stand his ground against his SSJ Blue counter part (Goku in DB Super)
@@pinkdoe1725 Wow you treated this video like Toriyama himself made it, all my arguments are from the show itself and all I said was that he'd "hold his ground". Why'd you get all butthurt? Did I hurt your feelings because I made valid points?
Not necessarily. I’m DBS Gohan was able to beat Lavender blind as well. And SSG Goku tabled Beerus’s big ball of death which would’ve possibly destroyed the universe (assuming he was actually putting in more than 10% of his full power)
Thank you very much for watching and special thanks to Neon for making me that sweet intro!
To answer some of your questions or confusions;
"OmG buT ssj4 woUld Lose so Hard!"
Keep in mind, I am only using DBZ Super Saiyan Blue Goku, which has different scaling than Super. I stated this at the very start of the video.
"Uhh, but Heroes showed Blue and SSJ4 to be somewhat equal!"- Game characters are FAR stronger than GT or Super characters, so that is irrelevant,
"Why did you downplay Kid GT Goku?"
I said he would be 50x of SSJ3 Z Goku at least, meaning he would still be above Super Buu and the majority of Buu saga characters. So the Infant Baby>=Super Buu argument is not contradicted whatsoever.
"Why did you give Goku a 10x boost for training?"
Explained this in the video, but Goku got at least 8-10x more powerful as his MSSJ state>Majuub who was>SSJ3 Baby Saga Goku. Then, in Super, we see that Goku got at least 10x stronger from the U6 arc to the end of the Goku Black arc since he needed kaioken x10 to keep up with Hit, then, in the rematch he didn't need it whatsoever.
"GT can be scaled to the movies"
That can be argued, but the series only takes in account a few movies and the main events of Z happened, meaning several movies could not have taken place at the same time. I will do a video on this at some point though.
""Where did you get SSJG=SSJ3 Vegito?"
It is the only way to calculate SSJG 's power using the official multipliers and statements. Never claimed that God multiplier was official or anything of the sorts. Regardless, I still proved that even with insane lowballing, SSJ4 is just BARELY stronger.
Hay Chuck, I can't help but feel that somebody should make a video on how powerful highballed Super Goku could be. If you applied all the biggest head cannon Multipliers that are reasonable. Think of it this way: I want you to make me die of a heart attack just looking at how big the numbers get.
Wow so even ssjg being low balled ssj4 is BARELY stronger. Ssj4 is still way more powerful than I thought.
Video was innaccurate. Your first mistake was using a BOG MOVIE line even after bog movie was retconned, because in Super goku said he dosent THINK fusion would be enough. never included the fact that rage vegeta used 10% of berrus. But never minding all of this missed information,
Ssj4 > ssj blue. And that's indisputable facts. I don't care what you are or what following you have, or even what you think you are in this community. If you dare challenge me, you're going to get exposed and debunked. I don't know if you want to be embarrassed in front your sucribers...
When makin vids on numbers explain the outcomes then show a chart with the math on so people can double check it for themselves cause people get confused with all the numbers i agree SSB is far stronger then SS4 but alot people dont think so
... Should i post the Comment here ? Definitely worth the read
Don't let this distract you from the fact that Baby Vegeta had silver hair before it was cool
Nameless Anonymous He was the OG ultra instinct until Goku wrecked his ass with Beerus hacks xD
His hair was actually white.
Nameless Anonymous 😂😂
Andre Ware ISSA JOKE DON'T RUIN IT
Nameless Anonymous its actually grey
But ssj5 is more powerful than ssjgb.... I know because I guy told me with no proof.
Just a Robot lol same as super fans
Just a Robot I'm glad I found your channel a while ago, you gave me videos to listen to while I'm at work where I'm not allowed to wear earphones 10/10
Dia Sabah they do have proof gt fans don’t
ssj5 is fan made. Not canon... -.-
Just a Robot aye its u
I agree with this. But, despite SSJ4 being weaker, I still like the design of SSJ4 much more. Especially considering it has to do with the saiyan's roots, involving the great ape form and stuff.
Super saiyan god is also less of a primal form so it doesn’t have that cool of a design. Although given the look of super saiyan blue evolution, if super saiyan blue 2 looks like a more refined, spiky, and electrified version of super saiyan blue evolution, then it could potentially look really really cool. I kinda wished super saiyan 2 was much spikier tho so it could be much easier distinguished from super saiyan 1.
@@myusername3689 You say it like SSBE isn’t SSB2. (It is. Say it isn’t and I’ll burn down your house)
Respectfully homie. It ain't weaker, I promise
@@el_hehe9581how
@@el_hehe9581how
Suoer saiyn 4 definitely wins in terms of design tho.
Mufaro M nah
Yeah honestly,I’ve seen blue so much now it doesn’t even feel like a cool form ..
To be compleyely honest I don't like how ss4 looks like at all. It looks like ass to me.
ssj3 has the best design
Mufaro M faxs
So in short:
Power
SSJ4 < SSGSS
Design
SSJ4 > SSGSS
.......I added the design part...
Considering the fact that Son Goku is the japanese translation of the chinese name Sun Wukong, also known as the Monkey King, the buddhist god of battle I would say SSJ4 has a much better design. It pays homage to the actual god.
Considering most of Goku's personality, abilities and design in general are already taken from that god it only makes sense that his final form should be a more literal interpretation of that. Just my opinion though. If you don't believe me there's a great youtube series on Sun Wukong you can watch.
Yes but I love ssj blue ssj4 is nothing but a trash
You got it all wrong... SSJ4>SSGSS
iiPanda Dubs sure buddy
@@Binks7077 Yes, Im sure.
SSJ4 is more attractive tho. 4 wins women(and men probably).
I mean aesthetically 4 is amazing. I dont think its stronger than Super saiyan blue but yeah
Ssj4 is my favorite design in dragon ball.
@@blackbird7781 Then watch Dbz hero's
@@exoticspeedefy7916 dragon ball z heroes isnt a show. Did you mean super dragon ball heroes? Also its not an equal comparison due to the fact that goku:xeno and Vegeta:xeno are stated to have far more experience than goku and vegeta and therefore that is partially why there was a power difference. Another thing to note is that ssj4 is a dead end. It doesnt get any more powerful than it is. Look at super saiyan blue and the variants to itn
@@blackbird7781 Which proves my point xeno goku ss4 is on par with blue. I would go as far to say slightly more powerful because of how xeno goku and vegeta held up against cunber (Xeno goku base is actually stronger than goku) However it takes much more effort as you stated fighting experience to do so. The reason xeno goku never had the training to become ssgb only because he was never visited by berus in that universe. Ultra instinct however is far beyond ss4
Power scaling Xenoverse would be neat
it would be terrifying
100 People lol
Please no, Xenoverse makes no damn sense. RoF Arc SSJ4 Goku was able to get the upper hand on post Black Arc SSB Goku.
100 People definitely but that would be hell
BlazingAnimations lol calm down
You forgot something important. In GT Goku is a kid and said when he was facing Super Android 17 that he could beat him pretty easily if he was in his adult form
i think by adult form he meant ssj4
@@gokutard6801 No, he meant as a literal adult. Goku was turned into a kid in GT.
@@TheLegendaryNomad except earlier he points out that being a child didn’t actually weaken his power
@@ryanrzjr Didn't weaken him, but it did limit him by a lot. He wasn't able to use some techniques because of his body.
@@TheLegendaryNomad except once he had the tail that became irrelevant as the tale kept his stamina and everything else in check.
Ssjb, the most defeated form in super.
real_g 30 I mean... SSB is just the SSJ4 of Super. None of them actually got a good win under their belts.
Do you consider every form that doesn't beat anybody wasted???
Masterkjmoney Ultra Instinct would be on that list. Ultra Instinct Omen wouldn't. Crazy, ain't it?
Masterkjmoney It doesn't need to beat everyone to be good. Look at UI. It lost on its first appearance and once it got mastered but never failed to maintain that godly feeling of being in a whole new realm of power.
SSB and SSJ4 seemed dominating in the beginning but then Baby was too strong for Goku as an Oozaru and in the end RoF Golden Freeza was stronger than Blue. And the forms just kept getting overused to the point where it didn't even feel as an important thing when they transformed.
Seth Davis Jiren admitted defeat.
I love how he used BOG Goku instead of Post TOP, shows you the insane gap between the two different versions.
Yeah but some GTtards will still tell you since Goku was getting beat up by kefla that means his weaker then buu saga fusions. Even though Goku pratically had 0 stamina and Ki at the time and could only sustain ssjb kaioken for like 3 seconds. 🤣
@@relentlesschaos835 also kefla is actually powerful... her ssj1 is equal to the spiritbomb that is far above pre zenkai X20 Goku blue, and ssj2 had enough power to kill omen 2
@@someedgyaccount3589 Yeah so the GTards need to stop eith that oH wOw keFLa wAs giving Omen a run for his money. When kefla would literally solo GT😂
@@relentlesschaos835 for real. Base Goku from episode 15 onwards solos GT
@@someedgyaccount3589 yeah smh love gt to but like base goku solos GT easily and Kefla should 🤡 on GT as a whole.
Why do i not understand the gt hate? I enjoyed it wasnt perfect but wasnt all that bad. I still need to watch the buu arc from z though...soon i will. Soon.
I don’t know it’s pretty bad tbh and I watched gt all the way through it’s just a major downgrade from z . The fights , the characters , gt is exclusively a story about goku too which hasn’t been the case since the og dragon ball . They introduced all these amazing characters just for gt to sideline literally every single one of them . Make them all useless in fights outside of goku and even the goku fights were so slowly/poorly choreographed that they aren’t even as fast paced as original dragon ball fights which is weird considering they should be much stronger and faster in gt . Moronic plot lines that were made for children which again is kind of wierd considering z was quite mature and even brutal at times . It’s like they forgot how to make characters look powerful . The Frieza fight alone from z has more work put in it than every fight in gt combined battles no longer have much hand to hand and instead of fusing martial arts they just do really lazy simple choreography even the radditz and vegeta battles had more meaningful choreography . The hand to hand combat in gt is literally almost non existent
I liked GT mostly for first Arc, which was basically original Dragon Ball IN SPAAAAAAAACE, which I kinda liked - the Buu arc bored shit out of me - and the Shadow Dragons Arc. Mostly for it actually. And that's becouse it has show the real consequences of overusing the Dragon Balls. You know, those things that the SHOW was called after and was in the most part just a mass res/status quo device thingy so people would not die out. And that great ending - damn, I love that soundtrack from the japanese version of GT.
BaranZenon yes this is true I’ve actually been re watching some gt lately and if they had put a little bit more effort in the fight choreography gt could have been great . The baby saga is honestly badass
@@123NERDZ I think people that love dbs love the aspect of action comedy more in z
Why people that love gt love action comedy +a lingering adventure theme form original
*Solgaleo* Because people are idiots that is why.
I'm sure someone is going to give the lame excuse of "opinion", but I'm don't bite it. After all it is used when someone has nothing valid to say.
This is really well thought out, and the multipliers just end up being insanely high on both sides! I’m a fan of both forms, and seeing them both get the credit they deserve is awesome!
This is so obvious
It’s popo
*farmer with a shotgun
yes i agree no yamcha
yes i agree Farmer with a shotgun was reckoned to be only Jiren level not angel
CreepyTim Wrong. He was reckoned to be Jiren level, not ZENO level.
@@mrblazeapound7856 dont lowball fanbow hd is massively superior to Azathoth
Last time I drink and watch one of these. Got 5 mins in before my head started hurting......I’ll catch you tomorrow bro
i like ssj4 more , but i have to admit ssb wins, Guys we all love db , dont fight from a little thing like this :)
I agree
God Christ Jesus bless you : D
Lmao dbs fanboy.
I'm not gonna fight but i disagree
@@tino1954 Any good reason?
I had the perfect ad placement ever. At 17:35 chuck says "with immense downplay and *nerf advert appears*" and i'm lmao
Lmao hahahaah
Great video Chuck
Glad your covering this to help people in the community
I actually very recently re-watched the Goku vs Syn/Omega Shenron fight from GT. Goku's SSJ4 was amped significantly when he fought Omega Shenron because he had received ki from SSJ Gohan, Goten and Trunks. IIRC they even called it Goku "going beyond his limits", as Gohan was worried Goku was taking too much ki for his body to handle. Goku named this amped state "Ultra-full-power Saiyan 4" in the Japanese version. Goku went from his SSJ4 being weaker than Syn Shenron to be able to mop the floor with him, which is what forced Syn to absorb the Dragon Balls to turn into Omega Shenron.
Exactly. Plus they forgot to mention *_Full-Power SSJ4_* as mentioned when Goku battled against Baby. Resulted SSJ4 Goku taking no damage from " _Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta's:_ *_Final_* _Revenge Death Ball_" ... which is dramatically stronger than the Original " _Revenge Death Ball_ " due to Golden Oozaru transformation
@@aercaux226 it doesn't matter tournament of power goku or resurrection of friends goku can still beat ssj4 goku and post top goku shots on ssj4 in base form
A black shinobi?! Of course, we know Ssb Goku is stronger but I just hate when people downplay ssj4 Goku and on top of that ssj4 Goku has so much more potential to tap into
Light Instinct exactly
It's all good it wouldn’t be a complete blowout tf. Now against ultra instinct no shit he’d lose but blue wouldn’t automatically win against ss4
Great video as always chuck!!
This is a damn good video, that is some great editing and accurate information, thanks for all of the great content.
Edititing was good, the information was mis consutreded and his conclusion comeptlyl innaccurate. GT fodders stomps super.
BASE KEFLA is shown to be stronger then than ssj god, THEREFORE SSJ GOD in BOG WASN'T AS STRONG BASE VEGITO (Since Bog only takes place a few months after Buu), and in the anime goku needed kaioken x 20 to combat an ssj kefla. Baby great 1 was already stated to be above ssj vegito, and ssj4 was way stronger. so ssj4>>>>>ssj blue, these are facts only.
Kefla is way stronger than Buu saga Vegito.
Your logic makes no sense goku and vegeta got massive power boosts in those “few months after buu” that’s just in base too, put forms on top of that and their power is way above GT level
Yo true that
4 Gt tard😂
I feel like you're overlooking the fact that because Battle of Gods is a movie and thus takes place in the movie dimension, Goku could have been referring to Gogeta rather than Vegito. Not to mention Goku and Vegeta would both know the fusion dance and Goku would (or should) have known that he can't just obtain the potara for the Vegito fusion, arguably increasing the chance he's referring to Gogeta.
hishunxy of fairytail Why are you trying to argue whether Gogeta is canon or not? That isn't even the point
Yeah BoG was intended as a canon continuation of DBZ where Gogeta never happened so they weren't referring to him.
I mean I know Gogeta isn't canon which was the whole point of bringing up the movie universe, but I've never heard any of those statements so I have no idea who says they're what. I just know they *are* movies which is where I drew my conclusion.
Since Super, BoG isn't canon anymore.
I don't know what the fuck is what around here anymore
Wow ur vids r really informative
And I can tell even without watching that blue stomps...hear me normies??
Aditya R lol this was a stupid argument anyways
supersoniclegend dude (or girl) he isn't saying EVERYONE who likes gt is a normie but saying that if u actually think that ssj4 wins in battle u gotta get some mental help, now stop being salty.
Also only normies like this get so salty
supersoniclegend dude he clearly said that he was talking about before that event occurred. Plus only those at the peak of normies would literally search in the comments for someone to pick at.
BASE KEFLA is shown to be stronger then than ssj god, THEREFORE SSJ GOD in BOG WASN'T AS STRONG BASE VEGITO (Since Bog only takes place a few months after Buu), and in the anime goku needed kaioken x 20 to combat an ssj kefla. Baby great 1 was already stated to be above ssj vegito, and ssj4 was way stronger. so ssj4>>>>>ssj blue, these are facts only.
supersoniclegend there is no proof that goku got stronger from that normie
Thank you for making this video to clear up the "confusion" and favoritism using factual evidence.
@ER - 07DG - Robert H Lagerquist Sr PS (1473) super yes z no
A black shinobi?! I don’t entirely know man, I don’t even think ultimate Gohan in dbs is ssg level cause Goku was holding back considerably. Remember how Ssb Goku heavily suppressed beat Toppo easily and ultimate Gohan AND 17 couldn’t beat a suppressed Toppo but then again Gt Gohan can be stronger than Gt Goku
Great video question could you and Seth so a video on how strong would hypothetical ssblue 4 would be I know it's a bit of a stretch
DAMN NICE INTRO!
Awesome vid!!
SSJG/SSJB > SSJ4! Goku went from being multi solar system buster in SSJ3 to at least multi galaxy buster and high ball Universe buster in SSJG! SSJB is pretty much proved to be 50x multiplier of SSJG.
A guide stated that Super Vegito (buu saga) rivaled or might even surpassed SSJ4 (probably talking about the form) also GT never showed any Universe busting feats, Omega shenron was at least a multi galaxy buster.
Except ssb isn't 50x ssg as ssbk goku was weaker than suppressed ssj kefla who was only 50x her 10,000x base form, dbs goku is only a low universe buster with mui as before that he's been weaker than the gods who aren't even macroversal as they fear macroversal destruction and beerus was stated to be obliterated by macroversal destruction not to mention that astral zamasu only became one macroverse and was stated by the kais to have godly power beyond their comprehension which further confirms that macroversal>gods>dbs goku pre mui
The guide was referring to a what if scenario in which goku and vegeta became vegito in gt, we know this because it states they become super vegito and not became super vegito and it states that goku and vegeta were the strongest warriors when they only time they were the strongest warriors was in gt, the guide upscales the ssj4 form as it's saying that even vegito as a ssj may not be enough for the base version of ssj4, which confirms base ssj4 multiplier>potara multiplier amped by ssj>ssbk>ssb>ssg, and if u really want to get technical xenoverse even has the ssj4 form above both ssb and ssg as stated by goku that he never felt anything as strong as ssj4 which puts it above ssg and when ssb goku admits that ssj4 goku is too strong, both were rof
Gt goku in his base form casually shook the afterlife while simply powering up which is a casual multi universal feat as the afterlife dwarfs the living universe in size, and since powering up Is a miniscule portion of a users power and shaking an area is destroying it overtime this means that a fullpower blast from base gt goku in the s17 arc would scale much higher than this, let alone as a ssj4, base sd arc goku pushes base nova to his final form, this same base nova was stated by goku that he's far stronger than any of the dragons he met up until now which includes black smoke shenron who was stated by elder kai and toei themselves to have POWER capable of destroying the entire macroverse, hell omegas sheer existence was destroying the macroverse lmao, the fact that you claim gt has nothing universal just shows that you didn't watch the series
Gt>super
FCBrock 101 ssg goku almosted DESTROYED the universe
Djames Whis stated that SSJ Kefla rivaled the universe 7 spirit bomb which in that case was more powerfull than SSJB Kaioken x20! SSJB Goku was able to swap hands with Kefla what pretty much proves that SSJB is indeed 50x multiplier or he would be outclassed! It was stated many times that SSJB (SSJG + SSJ). U.I Goku was stated to shake the entire world of void (same with Jiren) which is a 4th dimensional feat what way above Universal. Beerus and Champa stated to destroy universes if they fought each other, for you to say they arent even macroversal is obviously you being a GTard. M.U.I Goku > Jiren > SSJ2 Kefla >>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ4 Goku.
The guide is was clearly referring to (buu saga Vegito) *After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto* This clearly meant for buu saga Vegito since GT Goku and Vegeta already can ascend to SSJ4. The guide even states that Potara multiplier >/= SSJ4 which means you obviously bullshiting (what the most GT fanboys known for). SSJG was stated many times to be superior than (Buu saga Vegito) and showed feat that blows Vegito away which confirms that SSJG > Super Vegito > SSJ4, Goku went from Multi solar system buster in SSJ3 to multi galaxy buster - Universe buster in SSJG which proves it gave a much higher increase. Xenoverse is also non canon to the story of DB just like GT!
Just show me scans or screenshot were it was stated that Goku shook the entire afterlife you assume garbage without having any evidence, GT SSJ4 Goku is at least galaxy buster - multi galaxy buster. Omega Shenron can only destroy a universe “over time” which isnt considered to be Universal you fucking idiot. Omega Shenron was stated to be 10x stronger than before which means Omega Shenron (Multi Galaxy buster) > SSJ4 Goku what equals garbage.
Djames you really need to start putting out your sources because you might be bad shit crazy my guy.
Bro man... SSB is clearly over a 50x boost from ssg. Goku went from getting outright speed blitzed by Kefla to being able to swap hands with her in while she was in ssj, which is a 50x boost. In other words, this essentially PROVES that ssb is more than a 50x boost. What are you even talking about? If he can cover that much of a power distance with one form, SSB is more than x50.
I've only got one piece or criticism for this: the given multiplier for SSG Goku is only what he gets at the very start of being in his new form. Throughout the fight against Beerus, Goku's SSG power increases several times by an unspecified amount, but it's implied that from the start of it to right before Goku lost the transformation, he has become a *lot* more powerful than he used to be, continually pushing into several attacks with the power to destroy the universe. In the case of the baby arc, we know for a fact that SSJ4 Goku's power ends up being a fixed one, because he goes from holding back to fighting on par against Golden Oozaru Baby, with no apparent increase to his power, not counting Super Full Power, since what that does is break the limits of his transformation by getting ki from other saiyans. This also makes me wonder why you don't talk about feats that much, because that's a really big part of how a character's power is gauged in DB, too.
He specifically lowballs super goku just to give an understanding of how fucked ssj4 would be
Great video glad I took the time to watch.
Super Saiyan 4 is the most overrated transformation in all of DB both in power and design and it's shame when it's compared to Super Saiyan Blue because that form is the most over hated in all of DB and half the time it's really unnecessary hate. Alot of people that hate Blue hate for dumb reasons such as being a "recolor palette swap" which is stupid as hell if you're talking about simplicity. Literally every single Super Saiyan design in Z is so plain that there's barely any difference between them.
Super Saiyan- spiky blonde hair
Ascended Super Saiyan- same hair but big muscles
Super Saiyan 2- same hair again but spikier and added electricity
Super Saiyan 3- extra long hair and no eyebrows
Half the time you can't even tell the difference between Super Saiyan 1 and 2 with certain characters unless they have an aura but yet Blue has the "trash design" At least Blue and the rest of the God forms in Super have some originality to it that makes it different from all the other classic Super Saiyan forms by changing colors. I will give Super Saiyan 4 on the other hand SOME credit for trying to be unique but I honestly don't see why it's so hype in the fandom and honestly is my least favorite form. It's waay too over the top(golden ape but ends up having red fur and black hair???) It's confusing as hell(where do goku's clothes come from when he reverts back) it tries too hard to be "cool and edgy" it's a form that came out of nowhere with no backstory or build-up just "hey elder kai knows about ssj4 all of sudden" and on top of that it's a literal asspull(when they pull goku's tail out his ass). At the end of the day I'd much rather have simple designs then overcomplicated ones anyday
You must be really dumb if you think that
@@supersaiyajin4goku263
Said guy with Ssj4 as PFP
@@guythatgoesbythenamekay7954 No i say that why Blue is really Shit that looks like an normal Super saiyan with Blue Hairs the ssg looks so much better than the Blue.
@@supersaiyajin4goku263 you have got to be the dumbest person ive ever met🤣 you said ssj blue looks like shit because it look's like ssj with blue hair then u said ssj god looks better EVEN THOUGH ssj god looks like base form fucking goku with red hair dye and somehow that's better than ssj blue? Yeah gtfo🤣🤦♂️☠
@@RoseRose-cc6ys Bruh wtf dude The Aura of the Ssg looks so cool and the Red Hair looks better than the gay Hair of ssb.
Ssj4 looks more badass, so that's good enough for me
My head hurts after all that lol. Thanks for posting boss!
Looks like a MJxTV made thumbnail
Ichigo Kurosaki hi ichi
what are u doin here
Why is this even a question?
Shake Zula because people are in denial that blue is stronger
Because people don't understand how to porperly power scale in the community
SSJ4 is way stronger then ssj blue. Facts only. Seth said BoG movie was retconned but then eneded up using a line excerpt from the BoG movie to prove his point. That's wank.
Base kefla is already stronger then ssj god THEREFORE Base potroa fusion >>>> ssj god. Super great baby 1 was stated to already be above super vegito and ssj4 is like many times stronger than that. ssj kelfa was ale to match an ssj x 20 kaioken goku, this means that ssj4 > super great baby 1 > ssj portra fusion = ssj blue kaioken x 20 > ssj blue > base potra fusion > ssj god.
You use the term denial like someone is going through grief.
K, and are you talking about ssjblue anime Goku? Cause he stomps all of GT.
Shake Zula Except he dosen't, and if you actaully had IQ and read what I said, I proved he dosen't. FACTS.
I disagree tbh, I think if you go by feats ssj god completely shit stomps ssj4. Omega Shenron was a macroversal threat over time whereas Beerus clashing with a Goku fresh ssj God form was threatening the macroverse instantly
Isn't Base goku from super stronger than ssj4 with this logic lmao?
When frieza had to think on a strat to beat base goku idk tho super is too op
Escanor Lion's Sin of Pride Base Goku (Super) (RoF Arc) could probably take SSJ4 Gogeta. If Omega was going to universe bust overtime and he was about 10x stronger than SSJ4 Goku, then SSJ4 Gogeta is only about 2.4-9.6x Omega. Going by the "dozens of times" statement in the GT perfect files. It's generous to say that SSJ4 Gogeta is universal, and to be even more generous I'll say SSJ4 Gogeta = SSJG Goku (BoG Arc). Goku was stated stronger than when he fought Beerus in his base, so logically Base Goku (RoF Arc) > SSJ4 Gogeta.
Austin Smith you guys are fucking crazy and smoking crack or something to believe that
Coming from a person that has a ssj4 pfp, nah i don't think so lol
Escanor Lion's Sin of Pride exactly ssj4 fanboy
John Belardo exactly, it kills millions of braincells just reading that
Ssb is faaaaaaarr stronger. Ssb is a lot stronger than Ssg. Super Saiyan God Goku is stronger than Super Vegito from Z. That means the increase would have to be bigger than the A x B x 50 (Base Goku x Base Vegeta x ssj multiplier. Basically a z Vegito) which is actually downplay since the mssj multiplier is bigger than 50 times. Also Super Saiyan Blue was proven to be bare minimum 50 times Super Saiyan God, when Base Kefla was shown ahead of Ssg Goku, but in when Goku is in Ssb he can take on fully controlled Berserk Kefla. And the Berserk multiplier was proven to be huuggge. So yeah power wise Ssb godstomps Ssj4
And... Where is your proof
Terry Covington he gave proof read it
Dank memester He just talked about ssb power he didn’t talk about Goku’s power cause I’m GT kid Goku’s power could also be comparable to vegitos power since just a base Goku as a kid in Gt was much higher than a ssj3 Goku from z
Black Saiyan God and beginning of super goku was stronger than ssj vegito because he said potara cant fight beerus but god could so it would make him stronger than an end of z super vegito so super is still stronger in his base form since he absorbed it unless your talking about the manga
Dank memester It’s hard to pinpoint which one we’re talking about. Ok so in the movie (even if it isn’t reliable) the vegito statement was actually never made and in fact Beerus and Super Saiyan god was much weaker in the BOG movie. How much stronger I’m not entirely sure but I know I’m the BOG movie Goku was NEVER universal, he never had a clash with Beerus that threatened the universe which honestly they should’ve went with in the show because they made the God forms too powerful in Super for them to ultimately lose in fights. But in Super, Goku just absorbed all the power of the ssj god and stacked ssj on it. In the movie he just retained SOME power. Personally I’d say it’s like this Super Goku > Full Powered Super Saiyan 4 Goku (dragon balls absorbed) > BOG Goku
So you are finally making vid subbed
Ssj4 May be weaker, but I’ll be damn if it isn’t THE coolest form ever! Also, I’ve been saying forever that God and 4 are matched, and Blue was probably stronger.
Omegas auea alone was universal,an actual universe. Zenos best feat is those tiny universes in super of only 28 planets each -_-
BOB IGOR RUINED STAR WARS NOT JUST KATHLEEN Could you cite your source on where you found out that Super’s universes only contain 28 planets? Also, according to the Kanzenshuu, Omega is not Universal at all, he could potentially destroy everything in the universe in ~30 days, but not the actual universe.
Yeah it was nice to see a transformation that wasn't just a different color palette
Super saiyan 4 looks cool as hell. Far better than blue, but i still think blue is stronger. Also Zeno deleted a couple universes in a few seconds so... well.... you cant say that omega is more powerful. Especially when Zeno can kill that which is unkillable
Nah ultra instinct
SSJ4 Kaioken x10 😂 I’d like to see that.
But what about super saiyan god super saiyan 4 kaioken times 20
@@redbutterfly7959 nah ultra instinct 4 kioken x50
Yea u right
Impossible
Subscribed!
GOD DAYUM 128billionx imagine how strong MUI goku is or even blue vegito
Yup..and remember how Jiren molly wopped ssjbluekkx20 goku, ssjblueevolution vegeta, golden Freiza and 17 all at the same time while surpressed.
Current MUI is around 18 septillion ... SEPTILLION! lmao. It's insane how strong he is in MUI.
@@yamahakid450f now he’s probably over twice that with the training he did in the moro arc and the training he’s currently doing with whis it’s insane
Makes sense to me, I never gave it much thought before this. Though I gotta say I VERY much prefer ssj4's design.
I’ve seen a lot of video s on this, but this is by far the best one I’ve seen
Loving your new Minecraft intro
Derick Burgos love your face
Are you gay?
I was scrolling through and read your name as "Dick Burgers" lmao
Did they ever retcon the whole " the absorbed God power into their base"?
Cause it makes no sense that Future trunks would be equal (or at least comparable) to a Base Goku/Vegeta
also if you have God power in base, how can you stack SSJ God ontop of that? dont you already have it?
MedicEne
I think what they meant, sorry if I’m wrong since it’s confusing, that Goku absorber the power of imperfect God and turned it into regular Ki.
So he’s able to use God Ki now, not sure where he pulls it from, but is just stronger in general as well. Going Saiyan God is like using all his God Ki that he can and going Blue is going Super Saiyan on top of that.
MedicEne he absorbed the power of the form but not the actual form itself,he has the power of ssj2 with normal ki basically
All it did was give his base a boost, but his base is definitely NOT SSR level.
MedicEne he pretty much just got a zenkai
MedicEne just bad writing no changes
wow! i knew this all along...i calculated this along time ago but was too afraid to publish it...guess its official now. thanks man
What I find interesting about the god ki, and using it in base form, is that while Goku and Vegeta trained with Whis they learned it by accident in their base forms as well. So that would mean that they can even basically boost their power in their base forms at a whim, although it won't be as strong as their transformations since their base does still have a limit. It's just using a "different" ki.
Dragon ball power levels is like modern medicine, every time something new comes out you have to restudy the entire field again
WELL SAID
Powerscaling in Super just sucks too much. Ssjg 320k times stronger than ssj3? Thats why a shitty potara fusion of 2 weaker saiyans stomped goku ssjg in base form. Which is supposed to be TENS of times stronger than both individuals together. (Stated by Vados).. pls don't comment with "goku was tired" shit again even at 1% of his max power he should stomp them. This kinda debunks all of this again. In terms of design and everything else basically ssj4 >>> all of supers forms
Unlike ssjb at least ssj4 has more character and feels more like a god 😐, idc if blue shit stomps ssj4. Personally I say ssj4 design and transformation is miles above blue
Tbh Gohan Calvo or Gohan Blanco 100 por ciento is stronger so these videos are worthless. I won't even get into Shaghan or Shaghan verde not to mention Shaghan Calvo. Not to mention Duracell or Cell Perffecion.
Perler Bear shaghan calvo is weaker that shaghan verde
Spanglish 🤑🤑🤑
Love the new intro.
Hold up you said that the ss4 multiplier isnt what we think it is, its actually much higher and you're going to cover it in the next video but you still used the 8-10x multiplier for ss4. So if thats the case isnt the second half of the video where you discuss the gt scaling completely pointless? (if i missed something im sorry lol)
being able to use god ki means they dont have to take damage from normal ki blasts, though thats never shown in the series for whatever reason beerus said it himself that god ki nulifies normal ki
Debunking Jotoro Kujo Vs. Kenshiro when? (also great vid)
Man I forgot how much fun power scaling can be.
wasn't this done alredy? like hundred times
LiTTlleJeiKKie no
Yes, but now that super is concluding we can look back with hindsight. We have a better understanding of the power levels now than 1-2 years ago when those videos were made.
There’s never been a real battle between them so shut up
Didn’t expect dis vid I’m waiting on da SSJ4 multiplier vid doe Nice vid I would have a comment on the power but I’ll save dat pretty good
& good in-depth on ssj4 haven’t seen GT in a while
The intro is my ringtone. I thought my phone was going off
IMO
Power:
Super Saiyan Blue > Super Saiyan 4 > Super Saiyan God
Design: Super Saiyan 4 > Super Saiyan Blue >>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan God
Name: Super Saiyan God > Super Saiyan 4 >>>>>>>>>>>> Super Saiyan Blue / Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan
Edit: I am going solely on the forms themsleves and not Goku at the time
Super Saiyan God is stronger than Super saiyan 4
Super Saiyan 4 have the same strength as vegito ssj
goku after be defeated by beerus in ssj3, he admitted that even with the fusion they could not beat him
and the super saiyan god surpassed their expectations, saying that he had never felt such power.
Goku said fusion wouldn't work. For starters, Goku couldn't even sense Beerus power level so how would he actually know whether or not fusion would work? Also when I think fusion I think both Potara and just regular fusion. I'll grant you that Gogeta would have gotten spanked by Beerus but I refuse to believe Beerus could beat Vegito. The only reason you assume Vegito would lose is because Goku, who couldn't even tell how powerful Beerus was, said it probably wouldn't work.
When Beerus hit Bulma Vegeta attacked Beerus and hit him hard enough to draw blood, but I'm supossed to believe Vegito stands no chance? Yeah right lol
I would put ssjg over ssjb in design
You can't put fucking opinions over facts you just can't damn idiot
Seriosly? It would be better if you did gogeta ssj 4 vs goku ssj god maybe that would be a little fair
There is no way in hell that GT Goku was still weaker than Vegito after training for 15 years. Especially since he trained against an equal power to his own for 5 of those years. His power boost should have been way higher than that. Also he totally glossed over the powered up versions of SSJ4. Full Power SSJ4 and Ultra Full Power SSJ4 give him a good boost and that fact was completely ignored. He applied the Dragon Fist multiplier without even considering the boost from obtaining these power ups.
2 androids fusing was holding his own against ssj4 so if that is the case who is to say that its wrong dont blame the form blame the logic of gt which is why its not cannon
@@stormyluffy7046 Those same to Androids were able to fuse hell and heaven together by simply powering up. And are hundreds of times stronger than a Goku who was able to destroy a universe and shake Heaven and Hell but yeah sure Android Saga villains.
@@waffleten9750 since somebody deleted the other thread, ill reply here. goku didnt destroy a universe, or even a dimension. in the japanese version, the dimension was already being torn apart. all he did was open a doorway with a kamehameha. he also didnt shake heaven, just hell.
vegito was the culmination of vegeta and goku in a potara fusion, which is more efficient than the metamorese fusion dance. we also never saw his max power as he did have the ability to go ssj3 since goku was able to. he was also able to take a beating from buuhan without a scratch to show for it while in base form. buuhan combined not only buu's power, but gohan and the kids. gohan in ultimate form was more than a match for ssj3 goku.
as for gt kid goku being equal to buu, the best theory i have heard so far was that he was referring to kid buu. ssj3 goku was able to go toe to toe with kid buu and even blow him apart several times while he was able to fend off attacks from kid buu with little actual physical damage. he did succeed in overpowering him several times. kid buu had one thing that uub, even majuub, never had. magical regeneration of stupid proportions. it took a spirit bomb powered by an entire planet to overwhelm his regen and destroy him completely. so saying that kid goku in base is equal to kid buu isnt as great as people make it out to be.
plus, the only thing that even ssj4 gogeta did that was even remotely considered universal, quite generously at that, was kicking away omega's attack and transmuting it from negative to positive energy. that only really effected the planet. ssg goku was considered at least galaxy, if not universal level just by his fight with beerus alone.
then you gotta take into account the difference in power between baby vegeta and beerus. beerus would have beaten the snot outta baby vegeta easily, and was easily capable of destroying a planet utterly by accident and not even noticing. baby vegeta, even in golden ape form, blasted all the way through earth with a gallick gun without destroying it, even though such an attack should have done so. ssj3 goku blasted all the way through the kai planet in a similar fashion. the planet of the kais was also larger than earth, and withstood a super spirit bomb powered by an entire planet of people, although heavily damaged.
@@johnboggs1164 In the Japanese dub thats never stated. The game was going to break and Goku was going to fall into limbo.
But doesn’t the gt perfect files state that SSJ4 is putting his power to its limit that his body can take instead of it being a multiplayer
That was before goku and vegeta god god ki
Michael Rosasco gt and dbs where they have god ki are too different things gt is non cannon so their is no god ki
Awesome video.. really appreciate your patience for using all those multipliers and calculating correctly
👉🥳👈
Now, before I start I love Chuck's content and is extremely accurate on a lot of things. He does however low ball SSJG Goku, Goku states that if he fused with Vegeta, Vegito still wouldn't even stand a chance. BUt Goku was confident enough to fight Beerus as SSJG, and he even held back, which he revealed to Beerus when they were in the cave fighting. This would put Goku well above Vegito and I think he would be significantly stronger than what Vegito could be at that point, even as SSJ3
Yeah, he had lowballed him just for the video.
@@Fade12 I know, I just don't want people watching the video and underestimating him. Chuck has always been good at scaling, I just don't want people to lowball him or anything like that. And if I can help out I always try to. No hate on Chuck's part (he's actually one of my inspirations for me getting into power scaling)
@@boomboombro1015 Alright then, glad you're enjoying.
and ur argument about goku being 10x stronger which u got from his fights with Hit is wrong for multiple reasons. 1 goku went kaioken x 20 not 10... 2 u don't take into account that Hit also got stronger... so if u were basing goku's strength of the fact that he didn't use kaioken then the multiplier would be greater than u stated in ur video. 3 the above 2 statement don't really matter tho because the only reason goku didn't use blue in the 2nd fight is because he didn't need to. and he didn't need to because hit didn't use time skip in the 2nd fight.... goku only used kaioken x 20 in the first fight because Hit was using time skip. it was stated that goku and vegeta were both more powerful in their blue forms that Hit was... the only reason Hit was winning is because he had timeskip. but in the 2nd fight Hit said he wasn't gonna result to using time skip so goku didnt have to use kaioken x 20. so using the fact that he didn't use the kaioken x 20 to say that goku was 20x stronger isn't a valid argument......
everyone doin' tough until ssj4 blue walks in.
Look at it THIS way:
SUPER SAIYAN 4: The more INTIMIDATING transformation.
SUPER SAIYAN BLUE: The more POWERFUL transformation, because it uses GOD KI that can't be sensed.
LOOK at it THIS way:
SUPER SAIYAN 4: The more INTIMIDATING transformation and stronger transformation due to the fact that he was able to beat a Shenron which is clearly a divine being in the form dimensional Dragon.
SUPER SAIYAN BLUE: The more lesser tranformation. Just because it has God Ki doesn't mean that he is all strong. Yes, you might not be able to sense his Ki, but SSJ4 Goku has found ways to fight people without the use of his eyes once. He can focus on sound and use his Ki to feel differences in waves on the air...
does anyone play xenoverse? i think these guys have the answers to alot of future DB leaks, everytime i fight as ssj4 goku against whiz, he will say " Ah that form, yes, maybe now you can best lord berus"
really ?! ...
yea its in the game but the game is not cannon, just like dragon ball heroes XD
GAMER F2P yeah a skilled player can shit stomp UI goku with a saibamen illogical lmafo same could be said when you fight all the forms of goku and vegeta they go ssj4 then gogeta ssj4 then defuse and fight in ssgss but....
GAMER F2P games are not cannon tho
GAMER F2P nah
"Maybe"
Not even close
How do you keep track of all here numbers!?
Probably he wrote them on a paper.
I don't like your leaps in logic. We've never seen ssj3 vegito, not even ss2. Neither vegeta nor goku could even imagine how strong that version of vegito would be, so to say that ssjg Goku is equal to ssj3 vegito is plain ridiculous and bullshit. That makes literally zero sense. Yes false god goku is the strongest energy they ever felt, and a proper ssjg Goku was stronger than that initial burst, however, the ONLY energy that is stronger than, is Super Vegito and NOTHING else. Going from ssj1 vegito to saying that ssjg Goku is equal to ssj3 is a huge flaw in logic.
I'm glad you payed attention to this part.
Z vegito is confirmed to be way inferior by feats alone so the best thing for God Goku to be scaled is a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito as a bare minimum with God Goku's abilities. Even then, a mere 8x multiplier to Vegito ain't going to cut it. And why do you say that none of the 2 of them would be able to imagine how powerful Vegito is when they themselves are basically a part of him, more or less having the memory of that battle. Buu had to resort using his hax to destroy the universe and most likely his full power. Goku and Beerus managed it by just brute force from being enhanced by God Ki and they were still testing the waters.
" _Z vegito is confirmed to be way inferior by feats alone_ "
By your Logic, Jiren is vastly stronger than 17 through feats alone .... yet 17 still damaged Jiren
Goku & Vegeta has never witness nor transformed into a SSJ3 while in Vegito - and DBH is a literally spin-off series that never happened. GT is more canon than DBH ... so don't even try to use that Canon Bullsh!t
SSGSS Goku have been beaten by countless foes - mainly Hit - who does NOT use " _God Ki_ " - the term " _God Ki_ " is irrelevant.
The most critical thing you - and most people - have forgetten... is that Goku never clarified which Fusion he was talking about - Fusion Dance or Potara Fusion.
Plus, SSG Goku still loss to Beerus.
Whose to say SSJ3 Vegito or SSJ2 Vegito could win ?
Its just a lot of Guess work - with no solid evidence.
Henceforth, the basis of this entire Vegito-segment ( in the video ) ... is Hypothetical - a literally guess that crumbles on itself once examined further
Aercau X the point of the video is to clarify if blue is strong than 4, i don't know people are bringing up stuff like this if it's already been settled
@Dr. Bright Anims
exactly. So why do people claim SSGSS is stronger than SSJ4 if its already been settled ?
is there a Thread/ Discussion/ Forums Site you'd like to mention ?
How about Goku after 100 years. That would be a great follow up to this video! While keeping in mind that Goku got a zenkai after the dragon saga. I wonder how massive his power must be!
Just subs great vid
SSJ4 should be made canon in the future. I mean they kind of already made Broly canon as a fan tribute when they introduced Kale, I don't see why not, especially since we know new saiyans are going to be introduced now in the upcoming movie. I really hope they consider it.
change hair color and power up wow so easily
i like GT develop Super Saiyan form character is different in dragon ball super just only dye hair color =.....="
Happy birthday ma dude
You did forget about ssj4 full power when he has red aura glowing around him
That still wouldn't be enough
CJC7 It would help, I think if Gt Goku was in the tournament he’d content with ultimate Gohan and 17
Light Instinct lol no pretty sure he’d be way higher than that
@@lightinstinct707 no manga gohan was stronger than ssjblue goku
Dönermann Ali Manga Gohan was not stronger than BlueKu lol
In the manga it was like this
Kefla=Gohan
Base Gohan? You mean he lost his ultimate state? As far as I knew, in GT Gohan can stack SSJ on top of his ultimate form
He can!!!
Which doesn't even make sense
Heres why this debate can never be answered.
Because nobody can define both Mathmatically or in theory how strong BASE goku in GT actually was.
Also, for those passing through, Goku was de-aged into a childs body which nerfed him quite a bit.
@@matthewbreytenbach4483 and as a Child he was still STUPIDLY strong. Geekdom101 did a vid on it
lol do people still talk about this?
yes
Honestly...yeah...
Ah yes, the dragon ball community:
People with dyed hair screaming and flexing
All kinds of neon hair colors and auras
Alien monke people
Insane fanmade transformations
And math.
Don't forget when people suddenly turn into astro physicians *JUST* to prove you wrong.
@@justlucas5665 The type of people to pull up calculations are like the dumbest types.
Ssj4 is meant to be the FINAL saiyans form. It’s supposed to be the ultimate form. That’s why gt goku keeps saying that ssj4 is his ultimate form. Gt may or show that much feats but you need to hear the statements. Also take into the account that gt goku is also connected to the movie dB universe while dbs goku is not
John Belardo can't tell if this is a troll or not
GT was ok. 2 arcs kind of sucked and the other 2 were good
I’d say 2 arcs suck
1 was subpar
1 was great
If we go by numbers alone, that would mean Android 17 got several quadrillion x stronger in the span of a couple years, just kickin around on an island. So I don't think numbers are really the best quantifier here. I think that from a narrative and story standpoint, aswell as what we've seen from the anime's: full power ssj4 is stronger than blue by only a little bit, but blue kiaoken and blue evolution are stronger than full power ssj4 by a definitive amount.
No just no xd.
@@bash1009 what chu mean
For anyone wondering why SSJ4 and SSJB seemed to be evenly matched in the Heroes trailer remember this is really Xeno Goku vs DBS Goku. Xeno Goku is a fucking monster even in his base form.
Goku in ressurection f Ssj blue is more powerful than ssj4 goku
Am I the only one who actually doesn't like SSJ4's design that much? When I see it I just think "emo SSJ3"
FINALLY. SOME ONE GETS IT.
Fax
I have a story :
GT goku faces off Super goku. However, super saiyan 4 goku is easily outclassed by super saiyan god goku. It was after this vegeta, gohan, trunks, pan and others come to learn how this god form is summoned. So, they did whatever they had to do(I don't remember clearly). So ssj4 goku now transforms into super saiyan god on top of ssj4. He is easily much stronger than dbs ssg goku but dbs goku had much more training as a god. So he transforms into super saiyan blue and put up a good fight against ssj4 god goku and defeats him.
Now for everyone's suprise ssj4 goku stands up again and he has white eyes and white aura around him. Beerus was extremely shocked and said "Is that ultra instinct!!!!!!"
Whis was shocked and replied:"No, it is something much more than that!!!"
Beerus:"Much more than that?!!"
Goku starts powering up and the earth shattered and the whole universe was shook while dbs goku and others were terrified.
He powered up further while the whole universe was shaking and with a huge explosion goku achieves a completely new transformation with white long hairs like ssj3 and with buffed body and a monstorous look in his eyes(Super Saiyan 5).
Ssb goku as well as ssb vegeta instantly decided to jump in and attacked him with all of their power. But he took all of it like it was nothing and didn't even move. He then tightened up his fist gathered some power and within a fraction of nanosecond appered behind ssb goku and vegeta and landed a punch that was so powerful that the whole solar system crumbled and goku and vegeta instantly died.
Beerus decides to join in but super saiyan 5 goku was dodging all of his attacks (ultra instinct). Ssj5 goku then started powering up for a kamehameha which was as big as a planet. But instantly goku's body exploded and died immediately. The side effect for ultra instinct on top of ssj4 god form was too much that it killed goku.
Whis then came back 2 minutes in time and stops ssj4 goku from ever transforming.
I know this contains a lot of flaws like
How can he achieve ultra instinct right away or how can god form and ssj4 be mixed. But I just find it interesting this way.
Feel free to change the story so that it makes more sense. I just had the idea that what if ssj5 goku was actually a evolved form of ultra instinct (due to its white hair).
Ssj5 doesn't have UI. It's another multiplier from ssj4.
@@mohammadmehmood3092 i know, but since ssj5 is a fan made transformation I decided to modify its origin.
If GT would've gone the "SUPER route"
- meaning SSj4 = New Base Form
- Going SSj on SSj4 (A Goldish SSj4)
- Then being able to do Kaioken
then GT would've been more awesome.
“ but itachi “😂😭
Justin Holman Itachi solo’s
@@julienfoussereau937 hahahaa
Emmanuel Román ;)
This was lit
Can't wait to see GT-Tards rage.
TBalpha22 alpha gamer same lol
TBalpha22 alpha gamer super tard 😂😂
Sec Tec what’s a super yard? And why is it funny? Is it longer than a normal yard?
*GT iS aFtER SuPeR REEEEEEEE*
why do supertards always say that? they are always like "ssjb stomps 4 cant wait to see the fanboys rage" it just making you sound like the biggest idiot
Ssj4 fanboys incoming
i think i shit myself ssjb fans incoming
@@awesomezeke769hd8 nah I just read all the section comments and it's mostly gt fans saying shit
mr saitama exactly
It's all good eh, it’s more blueku and super dickriders than anything else
I get how people enjoy gt and are fans but there's no actually realistic way that the gt characters could fight the super characters
No real way.
Super Saiyan God Goku near his maximum power was able to destroy the entire universe so that's around 7 universes when compared to our own.
GT Goku on the other hand is cannon to not only the original show (not Kai) but also the movies and Super Saiyan 3 Goku in Fusion reborn was able to shake heaven and Buhan was able to destroy the universe. And because GT Goku is stronger than his old self and buhan in base that makes his Super Saiyan transformation far stronger than God Goku in BOG and remember Goku gets stronger than that in his base form and that's just continues in GT.
The guy in this video is mega wrong
MUI goku stomps both
togo pogo UI Omen stomps. We definitely don't need to bring MUI into this.
togo pogo SSB Evolution and SSB Kaioken X20 are plenty enough. Mastered SSB from the manga is plenty too.
No shit
SSJ4 Goku can tank the heat of the sun, adapt to attacks so that they won't work twice (sometimes), react to an opponents movement before they even make it (even blind), and stay durable against opponents much more powerful than he is. These feats are impressive and unique to this form. I'd say that he would stand his ground against his SSJ Blue counter part (Goku in DB Super)
lol nah after god ritual base goku from super is at least 20.000 times stronger than ss 3 goku from majin boo saga
@@derekurbina7371 did you not watch the video?
Purely ignorant GT fanboy
@@pinkdoe1725 Wow you treated this video like Toriyama himself made it, all my arguments are from the show itself and all I said was that he'd "hold his ground". Why'd you get all butthurt? Did I hurt your feelings because I made valid points?
Not necessarily. I’m DBS Gohan was able to beat Lavender blind as well. And SSG Goku tabled Beerus’s big ball of death which would’ve possibly destroyed the universe (assuming he was actually putting in more than 10% of his full power)