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He's fun Kanye...Ye from when he was eccentric and annoying, but kinda lovable... He can be our replacement Kanye to take over from the now broken Ye no one wants to be!
I am always in awe of how people's sketchbooks are so neat and filled with finished works. Mine are filled with rough sketches, concepts and even text describing said concepts sometimes. I could never show it to anyone lol
Honestly, you're learning more by having a messy sketchbook then worrying about making it presentable. I had to stop caring about making it look nice, because it held me back from improving.
@@elk3407 I've had the same experience actually. I tried to make neat art and colour it perfectly, but it really didn't make me happy nor did I learn anything from it. However, sometimes it's just nice to look at some neat sketchbooks. Even if I'll never have one hahah
Honestly, your sketchbook is I think of when I think artist sketchbook. You learn more from concepts and sketches. From drawing a concept over and over to figure it out.
I’m not sure how this went from “what makes great art” to “can you tell if this is a real Wikipedia page” 🤣 feels like a giant gap to bridge there. It did answer whether we can pick up on fakes on the internet and unsurprisingly we definitely cannot haha
Sure, the answer to that question wasn’t answered outright but the greater context of the video answers the question of “what makes art great?”. That answer being the authenticity attributed to the art and the story that it is telling. Hope that helps :)
I only knew the tumbler one, because she said she was scouring Pinterest, and like really only the most insane ones are posted there, the other ones seemed too tame or too fake to have been the actual posts 😂
as an art major i can tell you that the discussion around the definition of art (and whether its something inherent in a piece or not) has been going on for centuries. also, you overlooked the possibility that even though you made these as fakes intended to dupe your friends, they are still works of art in their own right.
I have to agree. But I also know I'm bias in this regard, since I've always been of the mind that a piece doesn't have to be made by a famous name for it to be elevated to the status of "art".
I also find it interesting that she chose relatively "layman" art like memes, tweets, and Wikipedia posts which more people are familiar with but also have the ability to create their own, exactly like what Sabrina did. She just as easily could have chosen to do more "high culture" art forgery like a Rauschenberg or Rothko (I mean obviously her Van Gogh couldn't pass for a forgery). Then that could be a counterpoint to her point around 13:00 about "what makes art great" and how what people say about an art piece affects how we perceive it. But if we aren't told anything, then how much of a role do "aesthetics" play in picking out a forgery?
@@TheEvanAndrews Frankly that aspect of what we are told about the piece affecting the perception of it is probably a subcase of the more general perceptual priming effect. I mean we already know that doing things as simple as tweaking the colours on the label of food or drink packaging can shift the subjective perception of the taste. So it is clear that even information that isn't in any way causally connected to the sensory information we are constructing our perceptive model of the input from still affects how we model it internally. Put simply it is clear that all perception is combining both the live sensory data and a bunch of pre-existing beliefs pulled from memory. I guess that a lot of that is probably part of the brains cognitive shorthand to reduce just how much processing it has to do in real time. In computing terms a kind of space vs time tradeoff basically doing a kind of surface level analysis then doing a fuzzy match to memory to blend in the details from past experience for things that seems similar or related enough. From an evolutionary perspective if something is familiar, nonthreatening, and not consciously being focused on (ie stuff relevant to a current conscious goal) figuring yup know what that is, slapping a good enough label on it and moving on was probably helpful. We probably take in more information than the brain can realistically process in full in real time, better to focus on stuff that resembles known threats or is novel and thus needs to be evaluated more carefully. Prioritising in that way probably improves the odds of remaining not dead which evolution is biased towards promoting.
@@thenoises1604 while you may be right for now, the historical trend when anyone declares that something is not art, this something becomes art sooner or later. Some may argue that Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q., where he drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa that was printed on a post card, is an artwork that uses the same recycled content logic of contemporary low-brow meme culture. A more recent example from a few years ago is Richard Prince who made art from other people's Instagram posts.
I was today years old when I learned that Michael Angelo didn't paint the Sistine chapel alone. I mean logically it makes a lot of sense that he would have had assistants but I had never even conceived of it.
i mean, it’s kinda the same as mangakas, there’s only one name stated in the credits but they have assistants to do part of the art (filling color, drawing the text effects etc)
Another great fact is that the picture of jesus on the Sistine chapel is the likeness of his boyfriend. Honestly i would totally do the same thing lmao
I'm borderline embarrassed to say that at 27, although I have heard people say "go piss girl" a bunch, I have literally never seen the actual meme and have just been confused about it the whole time. And this video is a year and a half old. I don't understand how that's possible, but I am glad to finally understand wtf "go piss girl" comes from, so thank you.
Why are you so sure that you would you be able to recognise your own Facebook posts or comments, Tweets or RUclips comments or replies from weeks, months or even years later? Without your name, username or handle attached to them, of course. I think you might be slightly overestimating everyone's recollection abilities.
@@nutelllla_ If you bothered listening to what Taha said, he was asking if it was his and he obviously didn't know for sure. That is exactly the whole point.
This is becoming more relevant now that Ai art is becoming a "trend." I feel bad to the art majors, small artists, and professional artists trying to make a living out of their careers...
it's so sad because we're seeing it happen in real time and it doesn't feel like people are listening to artists, like if you go on Twitter, you'll see AI 'art' images and artists showing their original art that the AI was fed to create said image. The debate of what constitutes as art has been a long-lived one but l feel like this is where the line us being drawn.
I will say, as a young teen who's dreamt of being a proffesional artist for nearly her whole life, shit's terrifying man. It's scary to bank your whole dream on this one skill you have only for someone to make an AI that can steal and replicate drawings, and with the majority of people not listening and even supporting it. It's enough to make people (including myself) contemplate just giving up on a lifelong dream entirely
Perhaps the 'importance of human creation, conversation, articles, thought, so on. . . In the sense of creating 'for other people, decreases, Though there 'would still be value in an individual creating, for their 'own development of self, As I think there is something gained by 'doing, compared to reading. Not that reading isn't useful, But the effect is different than doing, Not 'worse maybe, just different.
I'm studying for an art degree. 😢 But hey at least it's a degree and I can create comics and illustrate my own stories, and know how to sell them since my uni teaches you how to produce and sell your art. I just don't think I will get a full-time job creating illustrations or concept art for people if they start just using Ai for everything.
Wait, so if the issue with art fraud is how it impacts the original author, is it also possible for frauds to increase the value of the original author’s work (by enhancing the story, or drawing more attention)?
There's a very cool, tiny museum in Boston that had an art theft a decade or so ago and the pieces were never recovered and the places they used to be are left empty. Not fraud, but a huge story that adds to the reputation of the museum and I think books have been written about that case. And I think the Mona Lisa almost being stolen is a large part of how it became so famous and revered. I think a fraud could work similarly to those cases, whether found out or successful.
I mean the theft of the Moana Lisa is what made it so popular. It was one of his least valued paintings, which left it less guarded, thus it was stolen. It became famous because of that theft and recovery.
I think art fraud generally and primarily hurts buyers. The only way I can imagine art fraud hurting a living artist is if sales of fraudulent works reduce the demand for their real works, but that's not really how art markets work anyway; or if low-quality works were deliberately (& thus fraudulently) misattributed to a high-quality artist, perhaps out of spite or as the underhanded tactic of a rival artist. This seems like a fairly rare occurrence. Perhaps there are other scenarios, but none come to mind.
I think it's important to note that there is a difference between the Historical value of Art and the monetary value of Art. The Art market and Art History aren't the same thing at all. The monetary value of a specific Art piece is defined by the Art Market (trend, demand, rarity,...) where the Historical value of an Art piece is based on its context within the evolution of different art trends, techniques, themes, etc. As an Art Historian, I don't really pay attention to how much pieces costs (also, I didn't specialise in contemporary Art so I have little interest in the Art market). As someone who likes Art... Art is what you like. If it evokes feelings, if you think it looks great, etc. It can be Art to you. Masters in museums are great, but if you'd rather buy your neighbor's lovely flowers painted on wood that she sells at the farmers market to hang in your house. Don't buy a reproduction of the Mona Lisa just because it's in the Louvres and EVERYONE want to see it.
Why not buy the reproduction of the Mona Lisa? If we take as a given that taste is subjective and arbitrary then it's as inherently valuable as your neighbour's "horrid" flowers painted on wood. Even if you only like the reproduction because the Mona Lisa is popular. After all, that's as valid a reason for liking something as any other one.
Well said. I think the same can apply to music or even theatre. Art is highly subjective yet we do have this bizarre social construct which tends to only place monetary value on certain "flavors" of art deemed acceptable for the current cultural trends. In summary, heavy metal is the only acceptable music. Thank you.
Speaking of wine, I once saw something involving """""professional"""" wine testers (or tasters... whatever), where they gave them 6 wines, 3 of them white, and the other 3 were the exact same ones, but colored red. And with that, all the testers were really convinced the red ones were actually red wines, and tasted and smelled like red wine.
"I hope you liked that video. If you did, please consider sharing it with a friend. If you didn't, consider sharing it with an enemy." That was pretty good 18:19
I would have never thought about whether Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel alone until you’d mentioned it, and I suspect a lot of people are the same way. Similarly, in the modern era, most people believe that Dale Chihuly is the sole artist behind his works when really he paints up a rough sketch and then has dozens of skilled (and uncredited) glass artists actually make it.
It’s almost like how musicians gets all of the credit publicly for making an album when there are typically dozens of producers, songwriters, engineers, instrumentalists, etc… for some reason we always attribute it to one person
Yeah, You mostly only credit the top dog. But i don't see something wrong about it. Like an architect obviously needs an army of construction workers. But he's still a great architect.
Famously Michelangelo DID paint the Sistine Chapel alone, because fresco is a very niche technique and he couldn't find any suitable assistants who were both skilled enough painters and familiar with the technique.
Well... To be fair: Memes are actually easier to fake/forge than other forms of art for two simple reasons: 1: They usually follow a certain format ("Bottom Text") 2: More often than not they are created from pre-made assets (1x Picture, 1x horrible deep fried filter, 1x bottom text). So whilst there is no direct scientific difference between art that is simply good and art by depressed dutch people that somehow ends up selling for millions, you can still very much tell a Van Gogh apart from a lot of other pictures than might depict the very same thing, simply because Van Gogh has a unique style.
@@chuckbizzert9098 you're only talking about the painting auction market, the art industry is much larger than that and has literally nothing to do with money laundering
No? No he doesn’t? He has a style that’s easily learned and imitated. In fact many teachers encourage students to attempt it and others’ on your way to finding your own. It’s harder if you see colours perfectly, because he was likely colourblind, but it’s absolute doable.
@@ashtonrooks7899 yet how would it be fraud if she wasn't claiming it was real? As long as she isn't claiming it's real and admits to it being fake, it's just a knockoff not a fraudulent piece
@@lucyla9947 having not read the entirety of the federal criminal code and being aware that the department of justice gave up attempting to figure out how many separately identifiable crimes there are, i would avoid relying on logic alone to guide ones ideas about what is or is not a crime
You are an amazing editor-director, and I feel this is your art and it's beautifully done. I can't wait to see what you create next! I believe that is what makes an artist is when they make something people look forward too! I appreciate you making this a great place to discuss how art has been taken to a new level. I cannot tell you how.much I appreciate your research, thank you so much!💕
Okay I got the wikipedia one, and most importantly, THE TUMBLR ONE. I never seen this post, but anus georg had the strongest tumblr energy i've seen in years.
I could tell it was real just by the absurd way the replies are set up. But those weird lines and the descending order that kind of looks like a pyramid is absolutely iconic to Tumblr.
You really got me with the “things to release at a wedding ceremony” one, i was like “yeah this is real, I’ve seen this post” and didn’t notice “prisoners” were swapped out with with “georg”
3:25 can we talk about how that is actually not a bad painting. It’s not anything crazy, but you can differentiate everything properly, it’s interesting, and colorful.
Taha at 12:23: "Did you not just create new memes? Baby memes? What I'm trying to get to is..." Me: Ah, I see where this is going, it's about collaborative art and how memes are a medium of the people Taha: "...I am Kanye."
"when was the last time you thought about the Mona Lisa" well technically last night because I was rewatching an episode of miraculous ladybug where a fake cat noir steals the Mona Lisa. And I was rewatching this episode to do research for a soulmate au fanfic so I feel like there's some sort of irony about the meaning of art somewhere in there
@@musicbyella3769 one time I was legit looking at google maps trying to figure out where Marinette's house was, and basically I think she lives near Victor Hugo's house also any fic that requires research about funeral homes and cemeteries must be filled with angst and I'm kinda here for it
@@maixck genuinely, what do you care? If you don't like something, that's fine. You don't have to get upset at people for liking things you don't like, not everyone has the same tastes. You don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't like it, it's as simple as that
i remember reading malcolm gladwell's 'blink' and he mentioned that some art experts can recognise (traditional) fake art from real art in an instant, like in a blink of an eye, based on instincts alone, due to how familiar and knowledgeable they are with art.
That's why: 1- "Art" is a useless word, as vague, overrated and propaganda driven as horoscopes. 2- The aesthetic experience and the history of the work aren't the same thing. 3- Author and work should't be judged toghether. 4- The art market is a normalized scam. 5- "Great art" is a misleading phrase. A lie. There is not "great" art, because there is not "small" art. There are works intentionally made to affect people's emotion, individual subjective aesthetic experiences, and temporary paradigms that sometimes unites them for a while. The rest is commercial advertisement.
13:18 Unfortunately, this is why NFTs are a thing now. Get enough people to agree that a thing is rare, unique, and in demand, no matter how absurd -> sell to someone who buys into that belief -> profit
Actually, famous artists having a workshop of people doing the less important parts of the artworks was a very common thing. These were often for example pupils that the artist taught. The great master would design the composition and paint or sculpt the most important parts (like for example people or people's faces) and things like foliage would only be supervised by them, but done by the workshop.
"My sense of humor was long since consumed by nihilism, and now only ironic things taken to the point of unironic effort bring me any joy" -Heck of a line.
I've thought a bit about this. Does painting a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa mean you put in all the work to learn how to do it, and therefore you should be able to sell it for a huge sum of money? Like, if you can't tell that it's a fake, then is it a fake?
Oh definitely. Creating an exact or near exact copy isnt actually the problem. It's trying to sell that copy as if it were the original that is the problem. You could create perfect copies of the mona lisa and sell them for 100k$-10 mil while advertising they are copies, depending on how many you created and how perfect they are ofcourse. The current worth of Mona Lisa is nearly 1 billion$, so a perfect copy should be worth a lot. Art fraud isnt fraud untill you try to pass the work as someone else's.
@@Predated2 lol that's why I was so confused during this whole video. It's not fraud if you recreate the same thing. It's only fraud if you say it's by the original creator. I dont really understand this video, is she TRYING to sell them as the originals or something???
@@Predated2 I also think while the video started off cool, but using some random digital meme photos as an example of "fraud" is misleading. Some of it sounds more like a copyright issue (digital copy of a digital copy) to me, and in most cases no-one is going to call it "fraudulent".
Generally the people who would do that type of forgery are great artists already, or study a long time to be able to copy a very specific persons style. Yes it's incredibly hard to make any kind of living from art but I feel like they could put that talent into original pieces. Or even make fakes pieces but with some differences, and not exactly try to copy the original, then sell them as pieces to display at home or something.
"Great Art" isn't just art that is better at being art than other art, its art with a significant story/history (including influence on its respective medium and beyond). art can be great without being "Great Art". And "Great Art" can be pretty mediocre when viewed in a vacuum. People need to just stop with the elitism in the art world and like what they like. The stuff they like (or affects them in some way) being the stuff they engage with gives that stuff an inherent value to them much greater than "Great Art" may have edit: I just added in a part in parenthesis to make part of it clearer
I mean, actual great art will change the way people create art. A modern example is Joel Haver. He used existing techniques in a new way and combination, and thus creating great art. Great art is groundbreaking. Just like great science is groundbreaking. That doesnt mean forged science is bad science. The elitism in art is like "oh, lets launder money by making chanting this painting is worth 15 million dollars, even though we paid only 1 million for it, then donating it to a museum for a tax write-off. Btw, anyone doing something similar is 100% evil as they arent posh enough."
Actually, people won't agree on the simplest definitions, which makes everything ever so more difficult. You look at the textbook 7 traditional types of art, and meme doesn't even fit into any of those categories (maybe photography?). To me it is easy there are three types of art: High Art (Intellectually based art), Pop Art (Art meant to be consumed or sorta the mix of High art and craft art), and Craft Art (Art meant to be used, mass produced, not really thought about after designed) Let take Film as a great example and put it into the categories: High Art are more like your Indie movies and art house. Pop art is your marvel movies, mainstream cinema. Craft art is like a workplace training video. They all involve a camera and possibly actors and a story. High Art is element driven, pop art is emotionally driven, and craft art is functionally driven. What is considered great and what makes money is independent of the type. Look at shoes, shoes are art. Your High Art shoes will probably be the antiques, those that will be studied. Pop art are your Nike Michael Jordans, and Craft Art are pretty much anything else. While definitely you'll pay a lot more for the pop art for an individual pair, over all the pair that going to make the most money for the artist/company will definitely just be one that is mass produced(Craft Art). Now on to the question at hand: What makes art great? Well to the answer depends on the type. What makes High Art great? Since High Art is element driven, we have to look at the elements : Composition, Color, Shape, Pattern, Line, Texture, Visual weight, Balance, Scale, Proximity, Movement etc. What makes Pop Art great? Since it is emotionally driven: Does it the story connect with the audience? Does it reflect the current culture? What makes Craft Art great? Functionally driven: Does it serve a purpose? Does it sell well? Does it have many uses? People don't have to agree with my assessment, but I think people who try to lump all art into one category are just doomed to be arguing in circles.
Modern art is shit it has no history and the fools that pretend to like it, can be tricked into liking children's scribbles it's been proven over and over
Yup elitism is bullshit. The example Sabrina poses (about a newly discovered Beethoven work) shouldn't bother us at all. I mean Beethoven is great, but at the end of the day he was composing Pop for his era. We think of him as "elite" because of biased music education. This is a good video, but I think the discussion should've been about how "great art" is a forged concept
I think that the statement, "I don't know what great art is, but I know what I like." is the truest definition of art. So much historic art is simply what survived. So much current great art is marketing. If I see something someone created as art, and it sparks joy in me, that is art.
Fck the historians. The memes are alive now, *we* are alive now. It is beautiful, and that is enough. For though _I shall only encounter the future in dreams, at least I have memes_
I felt this video jumped from "authentic" as an ineffable quality that makes art good (it seems "real" in that it genuinely speaks to us) to "authentic" as in anything that wasn't altered or passed off as something it isn't. Kanye's tweet may be "authentic" in that it's really from Kanye, but Taha's relabeled tweets are just as authentic in the sense of what makes something "art".
Upon thinking about this video more I have to agree. This wasn't a test of "artness" this was a test to see if people could evaluate forgeries. Which is a valuable thing, but it doesn't really approach the subject she said she wanted to study.
Little did we know that she was actually the original artist of all paintings and sculptures went back in time to multiple dates and all the artist did art fraud of her work. Well done 👍
There’s a saying “You’re not paying for the art you’re paying for the signature at the bottom.” Like Andy Warhol, he painted a can of soup for christ sake. And of cause people want to believe they have a real masterpiece. Would you rather have a $80 dollar painting or an $8000 dollar painting.
The artist in me is like, this is not fraud it's art, it's transformative in the commentary of what makes art worth selling, what makes things authentically art and other things just rip offs
Ikr, I can’t imagine how they can come up with all of these briliant video ideas and concepts, and the execution are always on point too! What an underrated channel.
third. i remember watching the very early content of nerdy and quirky (the first video i watched of yours was your one about sirens lol). i feel like we kind of grew together and that’s cool
I feel bad, I got all of them right in the game except the Tumblr one, which is ironic because I've been on Tumblr since 2013 and even active until now. But it's still such a fun game and this is very informative Sabrina, great work. ❤️
I got all of them right except the Tumblr one, I have never even so much as touched Tumblr, but it has such strong Reddit energy that I kinda want to now
It would have been iconic if one of the "real" answers was actually false - to emphasise your point at 17:20 and throwing your viewers under the bus, but alas. Awesome video!
I knew that the "7 bilion people, 14 bilion buttholes" post was the real one How? It was the only one that made me laugh out loud (a thing achieved almost exclusively by real tumblr posts)
if a Person were to make a "copy" of a famous art piece (by hand, near perfection) since there are extremely minor differences.. doesn't it still count as a new piece of art? It's like when two files look similar but have different names..
That my friend is what we in the online art community call heavy inspiration instead of tracing or art theft. Those minor differences make it different enough to not be considered an exact replica, but still something that makes heavy inspiration so incredibly frowned upon. Since it’s basically the original piece with a few barely noticeable differences, it’s still considered a copy of the original that lacks any effort to change it and make it unique.
You can't really "forge a meme", unless you just meant misatribution. What you did in the video was to create you own memes out of existing materials, just like the creators of the "originals" did in the first place.
I believe it’s an exploration of the idea of what makes art “valuable” through a modern lens of memes. It’s an examination of how “value” is often impacted by what information we’re given about a piece, and what that means. It’s a discussion that has happened before, but I don’t think that makes it less of a good video. The lens of memes was the most accessible way Sabrina could explore this, but I understand why that may be confusing for some folks.
@@frostyskeletons8950 I agree that this is what the video is trying to say. It is a terrible way to show it, to the point that it proves a completely different point, i.e. that neither Kanye's tweets, nor Tumblr posts, nor memes, nor Wikipedia pages are art. Because they are not built with an artistic intent, i.e. they are not connecting emotions and messages to mediums and society. Of course I cannot understand if a tweet is Kanye's, there is nothing peculiar about Kanye's tweets other than the fact they are weird. The travel starts with her looking at her sketchbook, and realizing that she was not making art. While it is difficult and far from objective to qualify something as art, she did not get artistic vibes from her sketches. This is a very relevant question, a deep question. How the fact that it is difficult to distinguish Kanye's tweets from those of some British guy somehow related to the relevant question? Can she fake Kanye's _songs_ however? Can she create a Van Gogh painting? Not _replicate_ an existing Van Gogh, but make a _new one_ . That would say something about art. It would not be a conclusive point, but it would be _a_ point.
This video seemed to confuse the idea of copying an original piece and creating something new in the same style. The memes aren't forging existing ones, that would just be making slight changes to already popular ones and trying to tell the original. Creating the new memes is more like seeing the style of Van Gogh, then making a completely original artwork in a similar style, which is completely fine and done a lot. Otherwise there would only ever be one artwork in a style and everyone else would forever be stuck 'creating forgeries'.
This reminds me of the scene in the movie Mona Lisa Smile when Julia Roberts as an art teacher asks her students, "What is art? What makes it good and bad and who decides?" and one student answers, "Art isn't art until someone says it is" and Julia Roberts just goes, "It's Art!" I loved that movie just as I love this video. Thank you for making it. PS: I had 0 points
10:51 of Melissa saying she doesn't think she understands the assignment. I literally watched this part so many times because SAME THATS HOW I FEEL ALL THE TIME
as someone who has edited screenshots of tumblr and twitter posts before, i could tell the fake tumblr posts immediately. the real text has jpeg artifacts around the letters that is not present in the text that sabrina added. i dont know how to recreate that effect because usually i dont do anything about that but idk i thought that was interesting
I feel like certain art pieces are placed on a pedestal because powerful people find them amazing, but whether one enjoys a piece of art varies from person to person and is innate. That's my opinion, I'm not really an artsy person so I could be wrong
Yeah the same thing is true about which foods are considered "cultured" or what clothing is thought of as fashionable. For example, in the US, lobster was considered undesirable food that only poor people would eat until it became popular among rich people.
As far as I'm concerned, greatness of art is a construct of power. I don't know a whole lot about fine art but this video put no caveat on comparing this to classical music which I do know about. If there is any measure of what a good piece of music is, you could say it is one that people enjoy to listen to and would return to listen to it again and things similar to it. While a lot of the items in the classical music canon did meet that criteria in their own era, 'greatness' is attributed onto them by structures of institutional power and reinforced over generations. Myths and tales get created over the historio-aesthetic significance of a singular composer and you get to narratives of 'greatness' in music depending on a the works and 'genius' of individual men. The reason why this canonisation starts to happen is quite interesting but convoluted so I'll leave that out for someone to ask. The actual point is: you cant fake a meme; you just end up with another meme. And that's because there is no canon of greatness bestowed onto memes and which is backed up by real institutional power like with fine art and classical music. Therefore there cannot be any Great Memes. This is not to say no meme can have a deep aesthetic and philosophical substance when investigated in isolation, but memes are not subject to the same system as fine art so they're not really comparable for the question this video started out with. One key difference is in how canons of art are obsessed with authorship. That's the whole reason why a forgery is important to fine art; it's a question of who made it because of the narratives about the genius of individuals. Memes however dont see authorship as very important and authorship is mostly irrelevant or impossible to reasonably pin onto one person. When actual art is real organic cultural contexts is happening it's common that authorship is a complicated and unanswerable question. It's only canonisation that puts such importance on it. In this view, copyright is kind of like a next-level of authorship where the art gets treated like private property
Everyone I have to admit something, I watch this channel mainly for my backround for practicing my aim in computer games cause I like informational videos especially like this
Interesting video, I only missed the Kanye tweet, but I feel like I was aided immensely by watching the video prior to the quiz. You literally gave two away, and then your approach/ style came through in several others. I don't think I would have done as well if I had come in cold, like your friends did.
I feel like I just watched an 18 minute video essay where I never figured out the thesis. If the point was about what makes "great art", I'd say it's about how well a work evokes the feelings and emotions it was intended to, achieves its functional purpose, or how impressive its execution is. The Mona Lisa is great art, but so is an accurate forgery of it. Propaganda can be great art. Even deep fried memes can be "great art" as long as they achieve something of worth. It's all about execution. But it doesn't seem like that's what the video was about. If the thesis had something to do with what makes a piece "real", I'm also confused. All pieces of art a real or "true" art. Doesn't matter if it's a forgery, a fake, an original work, a piece of propaganda... it's still undeniably a work of art. What it's passed off as might not be true to what it actually is, but that doesn't change how "real" it is in any way. Art is art, its lineage and "authenticity" is irrelevant to that, barring perhaps if it was made by an AI, in which case it may not qualify because something without consciousness doesn't have thoughts to express as "artistic expression". I'm assuming at this point that the thesis had something to do with how we perceive a piece's value and "quality", and how for many that's heavily influenced by ideas of its "pedigree" and lineage. But what the thesis statement is in itself I'm unclear on.
Personally, I think that Sabrina's video connected those 3 points while in search of an answer on a topic which is inherently complex due to human mentality being complex. Such might also be the source of confusion, as there is a goal to the video, a question asked at the start, but the main content is the search for the answer which, as stated, is inherently complex and as such gives a seemingly shifting purpose to the video. Perhaps though, the best way to see the video isn't using a rigid guideline such as 'documentary,' 'essay,' or 'commentary,' but rather as its own piece of art, whose meaning and value is still left to the beholder
I wouldn't completely dismiss authenticity as irrelevant. While it may not have any effect on the material 'art' itself, the perception of authenticity definitely has an impact on how the viewer of the 'art' receives it. And so in how well it manages to, for example, evoke certain feelings and emotions.
I like your first premise the most. Evocative art that stirs the emotions has always been my personal barometer of a pieces worth. Whether that is Venus de Milo or Michelangelo's David or a spicy Bitcoin meme or the Big Brain Chair guy. To this extent, I personally find music to be some of the most "Valuable" and gratifying "Art"... Chopin's Prelude in E minor, Clair de Lune, Moonlight Sonata, Gymnopedie No. 1, Toccata & Fugue in D minor, etc... all the way to Radiohead, Enya, or Megadeth,... whatever moves you.
Yeah, I’m not sure it proved anything. But I also didn’t think any of this was “art”. I was confused how we were comparing real vs fake with great. But I could see how people see fake trainers as not great trainers, but still was a little lost in this. I liked the example of the wine, but if you thought the wine was good but it was cheap… that doesn’t mean it’s not good. It means the wine is good and it’s cheap, probably underprice and very good value.
The only reason I got 3 out of 4 was that I saw you editing the bottom text meme in Photoshop so I omitted it, even though I was sure I'd seen it before. Darn!
Hope you liked that video! Who's your favourite artst?
Also, if you want to see Melissa and Taha be grumpy and confused, consider supporting our Patreon: www.patreon.com/answerinprogress
I HAD THE SAME EXACT ANSWERS AS MELISSA WHAT
Cezanne, because I like the new computer gadgets
swag 😎
Love your old sketches
I googled it, that was a good reference. well played
Sabrina: "Is what I'm doing illegal"
Expert: "From my point of view no"
Sabrina: "Great!" (Hangs up)
/
expert: no, i
sabrina: *yea thanks byeeeee
LMAOOOOO IKRR THE ABRUPT CUT-
Lol phone conversations in movies be like:
Lol that was art
LMAO
The sheer self-betrayal of Taha finding out three posts were his own…
He’s Kanye though..
I AM STILL REELING
@@trevordeshane9257 is
Taha might want to retract the “I am Kanye” statement 💀
That did not age well…..
He's fun Kanye...Ye from when he was eccentric and annoying, but kinda lovable...
He can be our replacement Kanye to take over from the now broken Ye no one wants to be!
That's Kanye West at his Kanye Best
@@chelsea6329 basically we have Kanye (Ye) and the cooler Kanye (Taha)
The funniest part is Hank Green being referred to as Tik Tok star
I appreciated that joke :D
Especially put together with the Hank and John DFTBA sketchbook cover
+
Lol I was thinking same thing. Like he never was host and producer of scishow.
@@dssjr85 or creator of vidcon
I am always in awe of how people's sketchbooks are so neat and filled with finished works. Mine are filled with rough sketches, concepts and even text describing said concepts sometimes. I could never show it to anyone lol
Honestly, you're learning more by having a messy sketchbook then worrying about making it presentable. I had to stop caring about making it look nice, because it held me back from improving.
And you shouldn't. That's what a sketch book is for
@@elk3407 I've had the same experience actually. I tried to make neat art and colour it perfectly, but it really didn't make me happy nor did I learn anything from it.
However, sometimes it's just nice to look at some neat sketchbooks. Even if I'll never have one hahah
Honestly, your sketchbook is I think of when I think artist sketchbook. You learn more from concepts and sketches. From drawing a concept over and over to figure it out.
same
I’m not sure how this went from “what makes great art” to “can you tell if this is a real Wikipedia page” 🤣 feels like a giant gap to bridge there. It did answer whether we can pick up on fakes on the internet and unsurprisingly we definitely cannot haha
Sure, the answer to that question wasn’t answered outright but the greater context of the video answers the question of “what makes art great?”. That answer being the authenticity attributed to the art and the story that it is telling. Hope that helps :)
I can't believe I failed the Tumblr round, 10 years of academy training wasted. Curse you spiders Georg.
I knew because tiktok star Hank Green mentioned it in a video.
I only knew the tumbler one, because she said she was scouring Pinterest, and like really only the most insane ones are posted there, the other ones seemed too tame or too fake to have been the actual posts 😂
I knew because anus georg has been scorched into my memory for many years unfortunately
I knew because I was overly familiar with the other three and knew their original content was not Georg
the-
the tumblr one was the only thing I got correct--
"I don't think I understand the assignment."
Girl I feel that so hard...
I have not stopped laughing at that "go piss girl" meme for 20 minutes, and I am grateful that you have bestowed this meme unto me, Sabrina.
"Go piss girl" is probably said about 4 times a day in my house on average and it makes me cackle every time
😂
as an art major i can tell you that the discussion around the definition of art (and whether its something inherent in a piece or not) has been going on for centuries. also, you overlooked the possibility that even though you made these as fakes intended to dupe your friends, they are still works of art in their own right.
I have to agree. But I also know I'm bias in this regard, since I've always been of the mind that a piece doesn't have to be made by a famous name for it to be elevated to the status of "art".
I also find it interesting that she chose relatively "layman" art like memes, tweets, and Wikipedia posts which more people are familiar with but also have the ability to create their own, exactly like what Sabrina did. She just as easily could have chosen to do more "high culture" art forgery like a Rauschenberg or Rothko (I mean obviously her Van Gogh couldn't pass for a forgery). Then that could be a counterpoint to her point around 13:00 about "what makes art great" and how what people say about an art piece affects how we perceive it. But if we aren't told anything, then how much of a role do "aesthetics" play in picking out a forgery?
@@TheEvanAndrews Frankly that aspect of what we are told about the piece affecting the perception of it is probably a subcase of the more general perceptual priming effect. I mean we already know that doing things as simple as tweaking the colours on the label of food or drink packaging can shift the subjective perception of the taste. So it is clear that even information that isn't in any way causally connected to the sensory information we are constructing our perceptive model of the input from still affects how we model it internally. Put simply it is clear that all perception is combining both the live sensory data and a bunch of pre-existing beliefs pulled from memory. I guess that a lot of that is probably part of the brains cognitive shorthand to reduce just how much processing it has to do in real time. In computing terms a kind of space vs time tradeoff basically doing a kind of surface level analysis then doing a fuzzy match to memory to blend in the details from past experience for things that seems similar or related enough.
From an evolutionary perspective if something is familiar, nonthreatening, and not consciously being focused on (ie stuff relevant to a current conscious goal) figuring yup know what that is, slapping a good enough label on it and moving on was probably helpful. We probably take in more information than the brain can realistically process in full in real time, better to focus on stuff that resembles known threats or is novel and thus needs to be evaluated more carefully. Prioritising in that way probably improves the odds of remaining not dead which evolution is biased towards promoting.
I beg to differ. Memes are not art.
@@thenoises1604 while you may be right for now, the historical trend when anyone declares that something is not art, this something becomes art sooner or later. Some may argue that Duchamp's L.H.O.O.Q., where he drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa that was printed on a post card, is an artwork that uses the same recycled content logic of contemporary low-brow meme culture. A more recent example from a few years ago is Richard Prince who made art from other people's Instagram posts.
I was today years old when I learned that Michael Angelo didn't paint the Sistine chapel alone. I mean logically it makes a lot of sense that he would have had assistants but I had never even conceived of it.
I guess it speaks of his greatness. That the idea that he singlehandedly painted all that is just something we accept by default.
i mean, it’s kinda the same as mangakas, there’s only one name stated in the credits but they have assistants to do part of the art (filling color, drawing the text effects etc)
@@antniomanso Coloring mangas must be the cushiest job on the planet.
He was actually standing on top of two other artists in one big trenchcoat, that's how he reached the ceiling.
Another great fact is that the picture of jesus on the Sistine chapel is the likeness of his boyfriend. Honestly i would totally do the same thing lmao
I'm borderline embarrassed to say that at 27, although I have heard people say "go piss girl" a bunch, I have literally never seen the actual meme and have just been confused about it the whole time. And this video is a year and a half old. I don't understand how that's possible, but I am glad to finally understand wtf "go piss girl" comes from, so thank you.
I appreciate that Sabrina states she’s going to do crime and then appears in all orange. Well done
Orange is the new Sabrina..
Not a criminal... yet
TAHA NOT RECOGNIZING HIS OWN TWEETS ADFJDIZDDDSK
STOPPP
Why are you so sure that you would you be able to recognise your own Facebook posts or comments, Tweets or RUclips comments or replies from weeks, months or even years later? Without your name, username or handle attached to them, of course.
I think you might be slightly overestimating everyone's recollection abilities.
@@dj1NM3 When they're THAT random, you remember... Taha even admitted "I think I've posted that" to the white friday post.
@@dj1NM3 taha remembered the oldest of the tweets so there's no reason time would be the cause of him forgetting them
@@nutelllla_
If you bothered listening to what Taha said, he was asking if it was his and he obviously didn't know for sure.
That is exactly the whole point.
This is becoming more relevant now that Ai art is becoming a "trend." I feel bad to the art majors, small artists, and professional artists trying to make a living out of their careers...
it's so sad because we're seeing it happen in real time and it doesn't feel like people are listening to artists, like if you go on Twitter, you'll see AI 'art' images and artists showing their original art that the AI was fed to create said image. The debate of what constitutes as art has been a long-lived one but l feel like this is where the line us being drawn.
I will say, as a young teen who's dreamt of being a proffesional artist for nearly her whole life, shit's terrifying man.
It's scary to bank your whole dream on this one skill you have only for someone to make an AI that can steal and replicate drawings, and with the majority of people not listening and even supporting it. It's enough to make people (including myself) contemplate just giving up on a lifelong dream entirely
i believe human art is better as there's a message behind it and knowing someone with a soul created it rather than ai
Perhaps the 'importance of human creation, conversation, articles, thought, so on. . .
In the sense of creating 'for other people, decreases,
Though there 'would still be value in an individual creating, for their 'own development of self,
As I think there is something gained by 'doing, compared to reading.
Not that reading isn't useful,
But the effect is different than doing,
Not 'worse maybe, just different.
I'm studying for an art degree. 😢 But hey at least it's a degree and I can create comics and illustrate my own stories, and know how to sell them since my uni teaches you how to produce and sell your art. I just don't think I will get a full-time job creating illustrations or concept art for people if they start just using Ai for everything.
Wait, so if the issue with art fraud is how it impacts the original author, is it also possible for frauds to increase the value of the original author’s work (by enhancing the story, or drawing more attention)?
Theoretically, if the fraud is known to be a fraud. Usually, though that info isn’t freely given
That seems familiar somehow, but I don't know if it was in real life or in a fictional work...
There's a very cool, tiny museum in Boston that had an art theft a decade or so ago and the pieces were never recovered and the places they used to be are left empty. Not fraud, but a huge story that adds to the reputation of the museum and I think books have been written about that case. And I think the Mona Lisa almost being stolen is a large part of how it became so famous and revered. I think a fraud could work similarly to those cases, whether found out or successful.
I mean the theft of the Moana Lisa is what made it so popular. It was one of his least valued paintings, which left it less guarded, thus it was stolen. It became famous because of that theft and recovery.
I think art fraud generally and primarily hurts buyers. The only way I can imagine art fraud hurting a living artist is if sales of fraudulent works reduce the demand for their real works, but that's not really how art markets work anyway; or if low-quality works were deliberately (& thus fraudulently) misattributed to a high-quality artist, perhaps out of spite or as the underhanded tactic of a rival artist. This seems like a fairly rare occurrence.
Perhaps there are other scenarios, but none come to mind.
I think it's important to note that there is a difference between the Historical value of Art and the monetary value of Art. The Art market and Art History aren't the same thing at all. The monetary value of a specific Art piece is defined by the Art Market (trend, demand, rarity,...) where the Historical value of an Art piece is based on its context within the evolution of different art trends, techniques, themes, etc.
As an Art Historian, I don't really pay attention to how much pieces costs (also, I didn't specialise in contemporary Art so I have little interest in the Art market). As someone who likes Art... Art is what you like. If it evokes feelings, if you think it looks great, etc. It can be Art to you. Masters in museums are great, but if you'd rather buy your neighbor's lovely flowers painted on wood that she sells at the farmers market to hang in your house. Don't buy a reproduction of the Mona Lisa just because it's in the Louvres and EVERYONE want to see it.
This. Thousands of times this.
Why not buy the reproduction of the Mona Lisa? If we take as a given that taste is subjective and arbitrary then it's as inherently valuable as your neighbour's "horrid" flowers painted on wood. Even if you only like the reproduction because the Mona Lisa is popular. After all, that's as valid a reason for liking something as any other one.
@@pascalausensi9592 I meant that you should buy whatever you want. I wasn't putting a value on either. Just enjoy what you enjoy.
Well said. I think the same can apply to music or even theatre. Art is highly subjective yet we do have this bizarre social construct which tends to only place monetary value on certain "flavors" of art deemed acceptable for the current cultural trends.
In summary, heavy metal is the only acceptable music. Thank you.
This!
i think the fact that i only got the tumblr one right speaks volumes about my character. and i don't know if i like those volumes.
Came down here to say the same
I got that one and the deep fried memes one right, but only because I know that meme from Tumblr lmao
Speaking of wine, I once saw something involving """""professional"""" wine testers (or tasters... whatever), where they gave them 6 wines, 3 of them white, and the other 3 were the exact same ones, but colored red. And with that, all the testers were really convinced the red ones were actually red wines, and tasted and smelled like red wine.
Yeah that's not profesional wine taster
Wine tasting is phony.
placebo effect
Wait a minute, how was that possible? If you pour the wine you'll immediately know its color.
@@OmegaF77 pour the wine into a glass. put coloring in the wine in the glass. give it to the wine tasters.
"I just woke up for a nap." is going to be my life's motto starting now.
"I hope you liked that video. If you did, please consider sharing it with a friend. If you didn't, consider sharing it with an enemy." That was pretty good 18:19
Love love love your work. Always such a worthwhile journey.
Love your cgi work dude. Interesting to see you here as well.
3rd
I would have never thought about whether Michaelangelo painted the Sistine Chapel alone until you’d mentioned it, and I suspect a lot of people are the same way. Similarly, in the modern era, most people believe that Dale Chihuly is the sole artist behind his works when really he paints up a rough sketch and then has dozens of skilled (and uncredited) glass artists actually make it.
It’s almost like how musicians gets all of the credit publicly for making an album when there are typically dozens of producers, songwriters, engineers, instrumentalists, etc… for some reason we always attribute it to one person
Yeah, You mostly only credit the top dog. But i don't see something wrong about it. Like an architect obviously needs an army of construction workers. But he's still a great architect.
Same with like Thomas Kincade. He has built an empire out of uncredited apprentices.
Famously Michelangelo DID paint the Sistine Chapel alone, because fresco is a very niche technique and he couldn't find any suitable assistants who were both skilled enough painters and familiar with the technique.
2 minutes in, and the basic summary of this video is “we are gonna look at fake art and dank memes for science.” Love it.
"Do we need to be told that great art is great, or is it something innate?"
Nate: ".... I'm good with being told"
My personal answer to that: It depends.
Old masters: it's innate.
Modern art: you better tell me.
Well... To be fair: Memes are actually easier to fake/forge than other forms of art for two simple reasons:
1: They usually follow a certain format ("Bottom Text")
2: More often than not they are created from pre-made assets (1x Picture, 1x horrible deep fried filter, 1x bottom text).
So whilst there is no direct scientific difference between art that is simply good and art by depressed dutch people that somehow ends up selling for millions, you can still very much tell a Van Gogh apart from a lot of other pictures than might depict the very same thing, simply because Van Gogh has a unique style.
Faked memes are just essentially also memes
And his unique style is goddamn bad
The whole art industry is just disguised money laundering. There is no discernable difference between "bad" and "good" art.
@@chuckbizzert9098 you're only talking about the painting auction market, the art industry is much larger than that and has literally nothing to do with money laundering
No? No he doesn’t? He has a style that’s easily learned and imitated. In fact many teachers encourage students to attempt it and others’ on your way to finding your own. It’s harder if you see colours perfectly, because he was likely colourblind, but it’s absolute doable.
I love how this video is discretely educational while also being interesting!
Today We Colonize w/ phineas and ferb is a dank meme if ever I saw one.
I really thought I saw it somewhere
@@thenastypineapple3260 Right?
I've spent too much time on the English Internet, I have definitely seen something like that several times before.
"I know what we're gonna do today!"
Jimmy Neutron with the "Bottom text" text is a piece of art at its own.
i thought for sure that it was real
Creator : Is what I'm doing illegal?
Not a lawyer: Eh probably not
Creator: Good enough for me!
I have a feeling considering
What they are
they are sort of judges
It's not Illegal as she isn't claiming that her fake art is the real thing, she is openly admitting to it being fake.
@@lucyla9947 trust this - when statutes are involved there is often a tenuous relationship between logic, goals, and outcomes
@@ashtonrooks7899 yet how would it be fraud if she wasn't claiming it was real? As long as she isn't claiming it's real and admits to it being fake, it's just a knockoff not a fraudulent piece
@@lucyla9947 having not read the entirety of the federal criminal code and being aware that the department of justice gave up attempting to figure out how many separately identifiable crimes there are, i would avoid relying on logic alone to guide ones ideas about what is or is not a crime
You are an amazing editor-director, and I feel this is your art and it's beautifully done. I can't wait to see what you create next! I believe that is what makes an artist is when they make something people look forward too! I appreciate you making this a great place to discuss how art has been taken to a new level. I cannot tell you how.much I appreciate your research, thank you so much!💕
Okay I got the wikipedia one, and most importantly, THE TUMBLR ONE. I never seen this post, but anus georg had the strongest tumblr energy i've seen in years.
Same, and same. And I'm not even *on* tumblr xD (just seeing stuff from it shared everywhere *ALLLLL THE TIME* )
Also, the Wikipedia one had the strongest Wikipedia energy.
I could just imagine PM Seymour reading it and that’s when I knew it was real
I could tell it was real just by the absurd way the replies are set up. But those weird lines and the descending order that kind of looks like a pyramid is absolutely iconic to Tumblr.
@@noizepusher7594 yeah ! ace gang !
How were your sketchbooks so organized as a literal child?? I'm almost 30 and my sketchbooks still look like the scribblings of a madperson
different personalities
perhaps you are one
right? sketchbooks shouldn't be organized, they are SKETCHbooks after all :D
isn't that the point of a sketchbook? if it's too neat, it becomes more like an art journal rather than a sketchbook
@@worstusernameintheworld9871 that’s an interesting way to look at it.
This was the best ad segment I’ve ever seen because I completely didn’t hear anything you said
Damn, Sabrina is a true sigma female. She’s openly admitting she did art fraud to prove a point
Sigma balls
@@yewchoob6575 sugmapilled
Play sigma background music
this dude really just said “sigma female”
@@XxLinkinrapxX glizzyhands?
You really got me with the “things to release at a wedding ceremony” one, i was like “yeah this is real, I’ve seen this post” and didn’t notice “prisoners” were swapped out with with “georg”
Thanks, I was wondering what it was supposed to be!
12:29 that didnt age well
Taha's deep dive into Hume's concept of true judges to attempt to justify his response need not be so relatable
3:25 can we talk about how that is actually not a bad painting. It’s not anything crazy, but you can differentiate everything properly, it’s interesting, and colorful.
Taha at 12:23: "Did you not just create new memes? Baby memes? What I'm trying to get to is..."
Me: Ah, I see where this is going, it's about collaborative art and how memes are a medium of the people
Taha: "...I am Kanye."
"when was the last time you thought about the Mona Lisa" well technically last night because I was rewatching an episode of miraculous ladybug where a fake cat noir steals the Mona Lisa. And I was rewatching this episode to do research for a soulmate au fanfic so I feel like there's some sort of irony about the meaning of art somewhere in there
I feel very called put by this as someone who spent a good half hour researching funeral homes and cemeteries in Paris for my ML fic last night
@@musicbyella3769 one time I was legit looking at google maps trying to figure out where Marinette's house was, and basically I think she lives near Victor Hugo's house
also any fic that requires research about funeral homes and cemeteries must be filled with angst and I'm kinda here for it
This morning a girl in my class told us she doesn't know what the Mona Lisa is and she just thought the art was pretty...
What is you guys obsession with Ladybug?
@@maixck genuinely, what do you care? If you don't like something, that's fine. You don't have to get upset at people for liking things you don't like, not everyone has the same tastes. You don't have to participate in the discussion if you don't like it, it's as simple as that
i remember reading malcolm gladwell's 'blink' and he mentioned that some art experts can recognise (traditional) fake art from real art in an instant, like in a blink of an eye, based on instincts alone, due to how familiar and knowledgeable they are with art.
That's why:
1- "Art" is a useless word, as vague, overrated and propaganda driven as horoscopes.
2- The aesthetic experience and the history of the work aren't the same thing.
3- Author and work should't be judged toghether.
4- The art market is a normalized scam.
5- "Great art" is a misleading phrase. A lie. There is not "great" art, because there is not "small" art. There are works intentionally made to affect people's emotion, individual subjective aesthetic experiences, and temporary paradigms that sometimes unites them for a while. The rest is commercial advertisement.
"TikTok star Hank Green" is a sentence I never expected to hear and one that is surprisingly unwelcome
As someone who is still on Tumblr, the Georg one was easy, D had the Tumblr humor while the others didn't quite hit it properly
I don't use tumblr and I thought D was trying to hard to be tumblr humour.
Yeah the humour was spot on tumblr
Actually the one about cows and coyotes was a real post that she edited the replies too so I felt like she kinda cheated with that one
as a nine year long tumblr user, i got that one correct because i've actually seen that very post in its natural habitat XD
as a tumblr user, i knew it was D because it was the only one that made me laugh out loud when reading it
13:18 Unfortunately, this is why NFTs are a thing now. Get enough people to agree that a thing is rare, unique, and in demand, no matter how absurd -> sell to someone who buys into that belief -> profit
With the meme forgery, I could HEAR Sabrina's voice when I read "ya like Heinz Beans?" So that ruled that one out pretty quickly.
Actually, famous artists having a workshop of people doing the less important parts of the artworks was a very common thing. These were often for example pupils that the artist taught. The great master would design the composition and paint or sculpt the most important parts (like for example people or people's faces) and things like foliage would only be supervised by them, but done by the workshop.
I love how she just set up a meeting to ask if she's doing something illegal and was like k thx bye
"My sense of humor was long since consumed by nihilism, and now only ironic things taken to the point of unironic effort bring me any joy" -Heck of a line.
I've thought a bit about this. Does painting a perfect copy of the Mona Lisa mean you put in all the work to learn how to do it, and therefore you should be able to sell it for a huge sum of money? Like, if you can't tell that it's a fake, then is it a fake?
Oh definitely. Creating an exact or near exact copy isnt actually the problem. It's trying to sell that copy as if it were the original that is the problem.
You could create perfect copies of the mona lisa and sell them for 100k$-10 mil while advertising they are copies, depending on how many you created and how perfect they are ofcourse. The current worth of Mona Lisa is nearly 1 billion$, so a perfect copy should be worth a lot.
Art fraud isnt fraud untill you try to pass the work as someone else's.
@@Predated2 lol that's why I was so confused during this whole video. It's not fraud if you recreate the same thing. It's only fraud if you say it's by the original creator. I dont really understand this video, is she TRYING to sell them as the originals or something???
'ship of theseus' is a philosophical discussion dealing with originality and reproductions/copies.
@@Predated2 I also think while the video started off cool, but using some random digital meme photos as an example of "fraud" is misleading. Some of it sounds more like a copyright issue (digital copy of a digital copy) to me, and in most cases no-one is going to call it "fraudulent".
Generally the people who would do that type of forgery are great artists already, or study a long time to be able to copy a very specific persons style. Yes it's incredibly hard to make any kind of living from art but I feel like they could put that talent into original pieces. Or even make fakes pieces but with some differences, and not exactly try to copy the original, then sell them as pieces to display at home or something.
Amazing ad integration, first time I’ve actually watched an sponsor in a long time (and I actually enjoyed it)
I think everyone that has seen modern abstract minimalist art worth thousands of dollars knows that the value of art is subjective.
Either subjective or money laundering…
"Great Art" isn't just art that is better at being art than other art, its art with a significant story/history (including influence on its respective medium and beyond). art can be great without being "Great Art". And "Great Art" can be pretty mediocre when viewed in a vacuum.
People need to just stop with the elitism in the art world and like what they like. The stuff they like (or affects them in some way) being the stuff they engage with gives that stuff an inherent value to them much greater than "Great Art" may have
edit: I just added in a part in parenthesis to make part of it clearer
I mean, actual great art will change the way people create art. A modern example is Joel Haver. He used existing techniques in a new way and combination, and thus creating great art. Great art is groundbreaking. Just like great science is groundbreaking. That doesnt mean forged science is bad science.
The elitism in art is like "oh, lets launder money by making chanting this painting is worth 15 million dollars, even though we paid only 1 million for it, then donating it to a museum for a tax write-off. Btw, anyone doing something similar is 100% evil as they arent posh enough."
Actually, people won't agree on the simplest definitions, which makes everything ever so more difficult. You look at the textbook 7 traditional types of art, and meme doesn't even fit into any of those categories (maybe photography?). To me it is easy there are three types of art: High Art (Intellectually based art), Pop Art (Art meant to be consumed or sorta the mix of High art and craft art), and Craft Art (Art meant to be used, mass produced, not really thought about after designed) Let take Film as a great example and put it into the categories: High Art are more like your Indie movies and art house. Pop art is your marvel movies, mainstream cinema. Craft art is like a workplace training video. They all involve a camera and possibly actors and a story.
High Art is element driven, pop art is emotionally driven, and craft art is functionally driven.
What is considered great and what makes money is independent of the type. Look at shoes, shoes are art. Your High Art shoes will probably be the antiques, those that will be studied. Pop art are your Nike Michael Jordans, and Craft Art are pretty much anything else. While definitely you'll pay a lot more for the pop art for an individual pair, over all the pair that going to make the most money for the artist/company will definitely just be one that is mass produced(Craft Art).
Now on to the question at hand: What makes art great? Well to the answer depends on the type. What makes High Art great? Since High Art is element driven, we have to look at the elements : Composition, Color, Shape, Pattern, Line, Texture, Visual weight, Balance, Scale, Proximity, Movement etc.
What makes Pop Art great? Since it is emotionally driven: Does it the story connect with the audience? Does it reflect the current culture?
What makes Craft Art great? Functionally driven: Does it serve a purpose? Does it sell well? Does it have many uses?
People don't have to agree with my assessment, but I think people who try to lump all art into one category are just doomed to be arguing in circles.
Modern art is shit it has no history and the fools that pretend to like it, can be tricked into liking children's scribbles it's been proven over and over
Yup elitism is bullshit. The example Sabrina poses (about a newly discovered Beethoven work) shouldn't bother us at all. I mean Beethoven is great, but at the end of the day he was composing Pop for his era. We think of him as "elite" because of biased music education.
This is a good video, but I think the discussion should've been about how "great art" is a forged concept
@@TheBaldr this was such a good breakdown, thank you for sharing!
I think that the statement, "I don't know what great art is, but I know what I like." is the truest definition of art. So much historic art is simply what survived. So much current great art is marketing. If I see something someone created as art, and it sparks joy in me, that is art.
In a thousand years historians won’t be able to understand the memes we’ve created.
Which makes you think. There must be lots of memes and in-jokes in historical texts that are just completely wooshing over our heads.
In 10 years we won't be able to understand the memes we make now
Fck the historians. The memes are alive now, *we* are alive now. It is beautiful, and that is enough.
For though _I shall only encounter the future in dreams, at least I have memes_
Reminds me of how historians still can't figure out why there are so many Medieval illustrations that depict knights fighting giant snails.
I don't understand them now
I felt this video jumped from "authentic" as an ineffable quality that makes art good (it seems "real" in that it genuinely speaks to us) to "authentic" as in anything that wasn't altered or passed off as something it isn't. Kanye's tweet may be "authentic" in that it's really from Kanye, but Taha's relabeled tweets are just as authentic in the sense of what makes something "art".
Upon thinking about this video more I have to agree. This wasn't a test of "artness" this was a test to see if people could evaluate forgeries. Which is a valuable thing, but it doesn't really approach the subject she said she wanted to study.
@@toketsupuurin Agree. It really bothers me.
@@toketsupuurin Agree. But it doesn't bother me. 😉
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I love how you are so real about your sponsors. You put that blue progress bar and the chapter title is paying the bills lol
Little did we know that she was actually the original artist of all paintings and sculptures went back in time to multiple dates and all the artist did art fraud of her work. Well done 👍
There’s a saying “You’re not paying for the art you’re paying for the signature at the bottom.” Like Andy Warhol, he painted a can of soup for christ sake. And of cause people want to believe they have a real masterpiece. Would you rather have a $80 dollar painting or an $8000 dollar painting.
@Bubo Bubobubo I think about this every time I think of picasso. looks like children's drawings now but very new concept back then
First time finding your channel and I absolutely love where your thought process went at the end!
The artist in me is like, this is not fraud it's art, it's transformative in the commentary of what makes art worth selling, what makes things authentically art and other things just rip offs
It'd be so cool if she did a video about how she does all this research. Like, where do you even start?
Ikr, I can’t imagine how they can come up with all of these briliant video ideas and concepts, and the execution are always on point too! What an underrated channel.
poop
Reminds me of Nardwuar's TEDTalk.
That was hands down the best ad read I’ve ever watched. Very engaging!
"Bottom text" was the only one I got right, too 😂 it just seemed to be too meta to be very likely as a fake.
Those other memes are great though lmao
For me it was the distortion, bottom text was the only one that had that authentic feeling quality loss from being shared to much
third. i remember watching the very early content of nerdy and quirky (the first video i watched of yours was your one about sirens lol). i feel like we kind of grew together and that’s cool
1:43 I freaked out because rn I am waiting in a zoom call "Please wait for the host to start this meeting." for a final lol
only Taha can get to an answer by thinking of philosophical theories on questions about tumblr
*Kanye
I feel bad, I got all of them right in the game except the Tumblr one, which is ironic because I've been on Tumblr since 2013 and even active until now. But it's still such a fun game and this is very informative Sabrina, great work. ❤️
I got all of them right except the Tumblr one, I have never even so much as touched Tumblr, but it has such strong Reddit energy that I kinda want to now
Until now? Did this video alone make you quit Tumblr?
@@AkashWShah I mean even until now, I'm still in Tumblr, although I'm not as active, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding 😅
Just found this channel and I love Sabrina. Taha and Melissa, too.
The coolest room in the Louvre Museum is life-size art. Seeing the large paintings took my breath away.
There's that gigantic Seurat in the AIC, too. It's surreal!
It would have been iconic if one of the "real" answers was actually false - to emphasise your point at 17:20 and throwing your viewers under the bus, but alas. Awesome video!
You could make a followup and ask these questions again through the lens of ai image generation
I knew that the "7 bilion people, 14 bilion buttholes" post was the real one
How?
It was the only one that made me laugh out loud (a thing achieved almost exclusively by real tumblr posts)
I’m ashamed… I knew it was real because I’ve seen it before
I never got into tumblr but it sounded like something from reddit
@@sorenkair yea the randomness is very humane lmao
@@sorenkair Reddit is just tumblr but they hate themselves. Tumblr is just shitposts all the way down
i got it right as well, that and the wikipedia one, but i mean... the wikipedia was kind of easy because of what we saw in the vid before the quiz
get an expert to tell you “no, it’s not illegal” and end the call 😅
Power move.
if a Person were to make a "copy" of a famous art piece (by hand, near perfection) since there are extremely minor differences.. doesn't it still count as a new piece of art? It's like when two files look similar but have different names..
That my friend is what we in the online art community call heavy inspiration instead of tracing or art theft. Those minor differences make it different enough to not be considered an exact replica, but still something that makes heavy inspiration so incredibly frowned upon. Since it’s basically the original piece with a few barely noticeable differences, it’s still considered a copy of the original that lacks any effort to change it and make it unique.
Answer in Progress: "authenticity and provenance"
Me: *happy archivist noises*
Not the sponsored bit being called “paying the bills” 🤣🤣🤣
As an active Tumblr user the use of Spider Georg gave me unfiltered joy
waiting for sabrina to come to the conclusion that art is just our perception of it bc its inevitable
You can't really "forge a meme", unless you just meant misatribution.
What you did in the video was to create you own memes out of existing materials, just like the creators of the "originals" did in the first place.
Yes.
What the hell is this video trying to say?
I believe it’s an exploration of the idea of what makes art “valuable” through a modern lens of memes. It’s an examination of how “value” is often impacted by what information we’re given about a piece, and what that means. It’s a discussion that has happened before, but I don’t think that makes it less of a good video. The lens of memes was the most accessible way Sabrina could explore this, but I understand why that may be confusing for some folks.
@@frostyskeletons8950 I agree that this is what the video is trying to say. It is a terrible way to show it, to the point that it proves a completely different point, i.e. that neither Kanye's tweets, nor Tumblr posts, nor memes, nor Wikipedia pages are art. Because they are not built with an artistic intent, i.e. they are not connecting emotions and messages to mediums and society. Of course I cannot understand if a tweet is Kanye's, there is nothing peculiar about Kanye's tweets other than the fact they are weird.
The travel starts with her looking at her sketchbook, and realizing that she was not making art. While it is difficult and far from objective to qualify something as art, she did not get artistic vibes from her sketches. This is a very relevant question, a deep question. How the fact that it is difficult to distinguish Kanye's tweets from those of some British guy somehow related to the relevant question?
Can she fake Kanye's _songs_ however? Can she create a Van Gogh painting? Not _replicate_ an existing Van Gogh, but make a _new one_ . That would say something about art. It would not be a conclusive point, but it would be _a_ point.
@@bobon123 wow you just summarized everything i felt watching this video!!
This video seemed to confuse the idea of copying an original piece and creating something new in the same style.
The memes aren't forging existing ones, that would just be making slight changes to already popular ones and trying to tell the original.
Creating the new memes is more like seeing the style of Van Gogh, then making a completely original artwork in a similar style, which is completely fine and done a lot. Otherwise there would only ever be one artwork in a style and everyone else would forever be stuck 'creating forgeries'.
I came from the future to warn about Kanye.
3 points!
The memes screwed me up because while I know the "bottom text" format, I had no doubt in the inevitability of "Ya like Heinz BEEEZ?"
Right? Like she may not have gotten that image from the internet but I feel 100% certain that it already exists on the internet somewhere.
@@ekuu8918 well it does in this video
Yall are so underrated fr like u spend so much energy and so much work on yalls channel
This reminds me of the scene in the movie Mona Lisa Smile when Julia Roberts as an art teacher asks her students, "What is art? What makes it good and bad and who decides?" and one student answers, "Art isn't art until someone says it is" and Julia Roberts just goes, "It's Art!" I loved that movie just as I love this video. Thank you for making it.
PS: I had 0 points
10:51 of Melissa saying she doesn't think she understands the assignment. I literally watched this part so many times because SAME THATS HOW I FEEL ALL THE TIME
as someone who has edited screenshots of tumblr and twitter posts before, i could tell the fake tumblr posts immediately. the real text has jpeg artifacts around the letters that is not present in the text that sabrina added. i dont know how to recreate that effect because usually i dont do anything about that but idk i thought that was interesting
Sabrina: surprised Hank Green sent her something
Me: The vlogbrothers is the reason I started following NerdyandQuirky...
I am so mf happy I found this channel. Time to watch every single video at once and melt my brain
I really admire the lengths of research you do 😍
I feel like certain art pieces are placed on a pedestal because powerful people find them amazing, but whether one enjoys a piece of art varies from person to person and is innate. That's my opinion, I'm not really an artsy person so I could be wrong
Yeah the same thing is true about which foods are considered "cultured" or what clothing is thought of as fashionable. For example, in the US, lobster was considered undesirable food that only poor people would eat until it became popular among rich people.
There is a poem by Eduardo Galeano that says (paraphrasing because it is in Spanish): "The Nobodies: ..don't do art, they do handicrafts."
As far as I'm concerned, greatness of art is a construct of power. I don't know a whole lot about fine art but this video put no caveat on comparing this to classical music which I do know about. If there is any measure of what a good piece of music is, you could say it is one that people enjoy to listen to and would return to listen to it again and things similar to it. While a lot of the items in the classical music canon did meet that criteria in their own era, 'greatness' is attributed onto them by structures of institutional power and reinforced over generations. Myths and tales get created over the historio-aesthetic significance of a singular composer and you get to narratives of 'greatness' in music depending on a the works and 'genius' of individual men. The reason why this canonisation starts to happen is quite interesting but convoluted so I'll leave that out for someone to ask.
The actual point is: you cant fake a meme; you just end up with another meme. And that's because there is no canon of greatness bestowed onto memes and which is backed up by real institutional power like with fine art and classical music. Therefore there cannot be any Great Memes. This is not to say no meme can have a deep aesthetic and philosophical substance when investigated in isolation, but memes are not subject to the same system as fine art so they're not really comparable for the question this video started out with.
One key difference is in how canons of art are obsessed with authorship. That's the whole reason why a forgery is important to fine art; it's a question of who made it because of the narratives about the genius of individuals. Memes however dont see authorship as very important and authorship is mostly irrelevant or impossible to reasonably pin onto one person. When actual art is real organic cultural contexts is happening it's common that authorship is a complicated and unanswerable question. It's only canonisation that puts such importance on it. In this view, copyright is kind of like a next-level of authorship where the art gets treated like private property
crediting Hank Green as "TikTok-Star" is such a chad move lol
Everyone I have to admit something,
I watch this channel mainly for my backround for practicing my aim in computer games cause I like informational videos especially like this
You aren't alone
i'm somewhat confident that a method that's kinda like this *might* be used in a future classroom setting lmao
Every Sabrina video
Ridiculous Question
Research Montage
Does something Ridiculous
Fails
What went wrong
WAIT I learned something
Sponsorship
Interesting video, I only missed the Kanye tweet, but I feel like I was aided immensely by watching the video prior to the quiz. You literally gave two away, and then your approach/ style came through in several others. I don't think I would have done as well if I had come in cold, like your friends did.
Taha : "I am Kanye"
Me : I believe you
I feel like I just watched an 18 minute video essay where I never figured out the thesis. If the point was about what makes "great art", I'd say it's about how well a work evokes the feelings and emotions it was intended to, achieves its functional purpose, or how impressive its execution is. The Mona Lisa is great art, but so is an accurate forgery of it. Propaganda can be great art. Even deep fried memes can be "great art" as long as they achieve something of worth. It's all about execution. But it doesn't seem like that's what the video was about.
If the thesis had something to do with what makes a piece "real", I'm also confused. All pieces of art a real or "true" art. Doesn't matter if it's a forgery, a fake, an original work, a piece of propaganda... it's still undeniably a work of art. What it's passed off as might not be true to what it actually is, but that doesn't change how "real" it is in any way. Art is art, its lineage and "authenticity" is irrelevant to that, barring perhaps if it was made by an AI, in which case it may not qualify because something without consciousness doesn't have thoughts to express as "artistic expression".
I'm assuming at this point that the thesis had something to do with how we perceive a piece's value and "quality", and how for many that's heavily influenced by ideas of its "pedigree" and lineage. But what the thesis statement is in itself I'm unclear on.
Personally, I think that Sabrina's video connected those 3 points while in search of an answer on a topic which is inherently complex due to human mentality being complex. Such might also be the source of confusion, as there is a goal to the video, a question asked at the start, but the main content is the search for the answer which, as stated, is inherently complex and as such gives a seemingly shifting purpose to the video.
Perhaps though, the best way to see the video isn't using a rigid guideline such as 'documentary,' 'essay,' or 'commentary,' but rather as its own piece of art, whose meaning and value is still left to the beholder
I wouldn't completely dismiss authenticity as irrelevant. While it may not have any effect on the material 'art' itself, the perception of authenticity definitely has an impact on how the viewer of the 'art' receives it. And so in how well it manages to, for example, evoke certain feelings and emotions.
I like your first premise the most. Evocative art that stirs the emotions has always been my personal barometer of a pieces worth. Whether that is Venus de Milo or Michelangelo's David or a spicy Bitcoin meme or the Big Brain Chair guy. To this extent, I personally find music to be some of the most "Valuable" and gratifying "Art"... Chopin's Prelude in E minor, Clair de Lune, Moonlight Sonata, Gymnopedie No. 1, Toccata & Fugue in D minor, etc... all the way to Radiohead, Enya, or Megadeth,... whatever moves you.
Yeah, I’m not sure it proved anything. But I also didn’t think any of this was “art”. I was confused how we were comparing real vs fake with great. But I could see how people see fake trainers as not great trainers, but still was a little lost in this.
I liked the example of the wine, but if you thought the wine was good but it was cheap… that doesn’t mean it’s not good. It means the wine is good and it’s cheap, probably underprice and very good value.
damn bro that’s a long comment and i’m not gonna read that, good on u for being passionate ig
The only reason I got 3 out of 4 was that I saw you editing the bottom text meme in Photoshop so I omitted it, even though I was sure I'd seen it before. Darn!
“I started questioning what it meant to be real. To be authentic.” Mood.