Everything BJJ has today is known as Kosen Judo. If you want to see where all and I mean all of your groundwork comes from then just search Kosen Judo and it'll all make sense when you see older Japanese Jodokha's from 70, 80 years ago all the moves are there if you want to search it, spider guard, you'll even see some butt scoutting,. Nothing personal just want to keep it real. I've been training for years and crossed trained with some BJJ clubs by me it was good but I went back to just Judo and really enjoy the fight-ending throws we use if its ever needed. Ask Helio Gracie the founder of BJJ how good Judo's grappling is,
Oda developed Kosen Judo way before Maeda travelled to Brazil. The ground game was already very advanced in Judo dojos from Kyoto. The rivalry between stand-up Judo vs ground-game Judo already existed before Carlos and Hello were born. It existed in the Tokyo vs Kyoto Judo rivalry. The Kyoto branch of the Kodokan was highly focused on ground work almost exclusively. Granted, the Gracies certainly popularized the ground game across the world, but 80% of modern BJJ is just a slight improvement of what already existed in Judo ne-waza.
Roman Chumachenko I would think judo would be more “throw and go” so you could move from person to person but I don’t know what takedowns/throws bjj uses so I could be wrong
@@mintyghost8263 You could do " throw and go" I guess but if you are facing a group of people, there is no way to handle the fight with judo. Honestly, I haven't seen a single martial art that would handle more than one opponent for a regular practitioner. In bjj it's either wrestling takedowns or ankle picks from the old school judo.
I think there was a American Olympic judo guy who has a fight with like 6/7 guys many went to hospital from being slammed into concrete. Extreme example but he won the fight
Jujitsu weakness is multiple attackers and amazing strikers who have good defence against being taken down. No art is complete. You still need striking period.
I would really like to see the rift healed. More schools like this that have a Judo program AND a Jiu-Jitsu program, maybe even a wrestling program, to create a school with a complete grappling system. There's no reason BJJ and Judo should be trained a different locations. They are two parts of the same whole.
I did Judo in the 1980-90s. Back then, it was 50/50 standing/ground. I won most of my competitions on the ground with submissions. I stopped for university. I came back post 2000s and it was a different sport. In order to keep itself as an Olympic sport, it made itself different than wrestling, more dynamic, and aimed more as standing. The rules changes they implemented were so significant -- no leg grabs, stand after even five seconds of inactivity, fewer partial points, quick penalties for inactivity, etc. -- while led to Judoka just going into guard assuming a quick stand up. IMO, this was too far removed from reality. Without their rules (even at 30+ and out of it for a decade) I could slaughter teen/twenty year-olds on the ground. I looked ab BJJ, but again, too far removed from reality. Dropping to guard all the time is just asking to be kicked to death. Yes, I can see just training both, and I'm sure some clubs share space. However, it's sad. If Judo didn't go through the 2000s rules changes, I'm pretty sure BJJ wouldn't have taken off. Judo would mostly have coverage it, except maybe no-gi training.
The culture is very different. BJJ guys behave like ghetto bros (courtesy of the Gracie culture), which is quite incompatible with the respectful demeanor of Judo rooted in traditional Japanese culture.
TheSilatiger A young man in my town, from my old judo club in the 90's was honored by police after stopping an attacker with a machete assaulting a woman. He locked up his arm, threw, then pinned the assailant, all with whatever techniques he learned in judo. You are 100% correct: One hard, swift Judo throw on the street and it's game over for the other person. I know a few people and some law enforcement personnel ending situations like this based on one hard throw.
Judo black belt here. Great commentary. I’m into the self defense side of judo like you are. Judo has a lot to offer for someone interested in self defense, and the focus on sport has caused this aspect of judo to be greatly neglected. On the sportive side, we have a lot of BJJ guys join our school to learn the stand up game because it seems that their clubs do not emphasize this. Conversely we have guys who train at BJJ schools to improve their ground game. Each has something to teach someone from the other style. Just like you mention.
What do you think of judo vs wrestling? Ive been training bjj for years but I've always found judo fascinating. I've always wanted to pick it up, but I'm seeing so much wrestling being utilized in mma that it makes me wonder if I'd be better off going that direction. I wonder if it has to do with there being no gi
Freestyle wrestling is excellent to know. No question. I don't think judo is better than wrestling and vice versa. They both provide tools for dealing with the clinch. Judo works fine with no gi once you learn out to apply it without the jacket. I've played no gi with wrestlers. Some I could throw, some I couldn't. There was one guy who was a top college wrestler, and he whipped my ass many times. So ultimately I think it depends on the guy rather than the style. The only criticism I have about freestyle wrestling is that it emphasizes leg attacks too much. This makes it predictable. When someone is predictable it is more easy to defeat him. Consider, you used to see a lot of double leg shots in mma but now you don't see them so much because fighters have honed their double leg defenses. On the other hand, having leg attacks in the arsenal is helpful. That's one thing I don't like about IJF rules. They won't allow leg attacks.
honest lee Can’t go wrong with either. But if you can train wrestling in high school or college, do so. You get more training sessions and more intensity than in most judo clubs. It’s not so much about which is “better”, but about who trains more intensely.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I think you must train for the right purposes ,the right way, and also train a martial art that is effective for it to make a big difference. There are many martial arts that dont give you an edge in a real fight so just being trained under a discipline because you enjoy it could give you a flawed perspectice on how you think you will perform in a fight.
Rustedblade Awwwe their he goes again. A real percieved intellectual living in his head led to speak on things. Getting it wrong you sound bitter of Bjj. If you believe the last part of your comment you'd be better showing self control and keeping that imagined fantasy coming out of your pie hole shut. But hey let free speech be free. It's a great thing to still have.
Judo is pretty cool. I recommend looking into Catch wrestling and Greco Roman wrestling. The western equivalents and just as good as modern Bjj and Judo. Matter of fact look into the origins of the Kimura, i believe in catch it's called Double wrist lock and Kimura did catch wrestling. Or check out Maeda, I'm pretty sure he had experience in Catch wrestling.
I’m a kodokan Black belt, and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belt promoted by GM Reyson Gracie, I live in japan for 22 years , and judokas always tend to forget the fact that Jigoro Kano studied JuJutsu. Mitsuyo Maeda was student of Tomita that trained at Tenshin Shinyo Ryu school that was specialized in newaza , when Mitsuyo Maeda taught the Gracie the Art was called Kano JuJutsu.
As a retired former practitioner of both Judo and JuJitsu (Godan US Judo Assn., Godan Golden Gi JuJitsu Society) I have to say that Idean did a fantastic job of explaining in this video. Too many people today are unaware of the relationship between old style Judo which was known as Kano JuJitsu and the Newaza emphasized art of Gracie JuJitsu.
Judo back in those days isn't the judo you see today. Judo back then looked more like jujitsu today. The rule sets that surround judo today hurt judo with lost techniques and strategies. Hence, there are people that want to bring that back. And you hit a great point about the sport of anything and points.
@@gxtmfa Having sparred with these "nu Judo" types, I can only say they're mostly more GORILLA-LIKE in their approach to Judo. But they lose the subtlety and efficiency. The Japanese Kodokan fighters maintain the traditional spirit in high level competitions a bit better.
Wow that’s super insightful. Grew up doing Judo for most of my childhood. then had a hiatus for 25 years. now entering a journey in JiuJitsu. Purely as a journeyman. I would love to combine these two arts.
Sports aside, Judo is a modified form of Jujutsu with a shifted emphasis, which was made famous and then infamous by the Samurai. At the time of its creation it was still Jujutsu, but that name had a stigma, so the founder removed the "jutsu" and replaced it with "do", which made it seem more philosophical. So that's where we get the name Judo. Judo, is just Jigoro Kano's modified version of the Jujutsu that he was taught. BJJ is Judo, but with emphasis placed on the ground game and with modifications. So when you go out there into the world to learn striking, throws, grappling, and submissions from a plethora of global martial arts, all you are doing is coming full circle and creating your on Jujutsu. Jujutsu Watashi No Michi.
Very well said! Bjj is judo no matter how they try and twist it. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a "do" art , which is nothing but judo newaza with a different rule set.
The Gracies did not to quote the video "developed the ground work of judo to a much higher level", what they did were always judo. Read Oswaldo Alves's interview, he has done more in developing modern BJJ than just about anybody. His most accomplished student was Rolls Gracie. Oswaldo Alves himself spent time studying judo four four years in Japan and under the famous sensei Isao Okano, and there were techniques Master Alves have not seen in BJJ. Even the Sankaku-jime (triangle strangle) was not really used much in competition until Rolls found it is some old judo book and began using it. So it is important to study history first before one teaches it, many instructors are ignorant of the history of this martial art. Furthermore, if the average American black belt in judo has a hard time against blue or purple belt in BJJ, he has not studied judo comprehensively, and not has studied newaza well, period.
Ever wonder why Judo blackebelts are allowed to compete at Blue Belt level BJJ competitions? His comments are valid, yes there are exceptions but most Judo Schools historically much weaker on newaza.
That's some important info I wasn't aware. Another thing people likes to forget is that Mitsuyo Maeda was a Catch Wrestler. The Wrestling (they have their own developed system, Shoot Wrestling) in Japan is somewhat unknow for so many people and for I'm investigating is responsible in more than one way in BJJs birth since wrestling was something popular in brazil too.
Very well spoken video properly explaining the difference between judo and jiu-jitsu.. coming from about 8 years at a traditional judo school I completely agreed with this!.. well done!
Please don't buy into the Gracies narrative saying that Helio invented the guard. He did not invent the guard. The open and closed guard was used in Japan from at least the 1890's through the very early 1900's. Look up the book written by Taro Miyake and Yukio Tani. It's called: "The Game of Jujitsu" and details how to get subs from both the open and closed guard. The book was written in 1906. What Helio did do was develop techniques to defend yourself in vale tudo from the guard position.
isalehyan "Judo is nothing less than a martial art. When a soldier breaks his sword and runs out of arrows, in the end, life and death is determined with newaza.” - Tatsukuma Ushijima
i've only heard one of them say that, but who knows what they all believe. what i've heard most, was that if not for Helio, no one would really be fighting from the guard. not that the concepts and techniques didn't exist before, but that prior to him, no one really did it, is all.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I agree. Helio and his family preserved and also developed Jiu Jitsu to become street applicable. Most people would not know how to fight from various guard positions and defend themselves. Jiu Jitsu in Japan from a century ago eventually turned into the sport throwing judo that we see today and all the guard pulling was banned by Jigoro Kano because it negated his tachi-waza (throws) that he developed and he also felt that judo was becoming too sportive and was losing its self defense aspect. No more guard pulling in Kodokan Judo as a result. The only ones that continue to practice guard pulling in competition is in the Kosen Judo ruleset. Kano allowed this because he also wanted newaza to be developed at the same time. Fun fact: the triangle choke was developed in Kosen Judo in the early 1920's.
My background is Judo, Aikido, and Taekwondo. I'm currently taking Kenpo and Jiu-Jitsu. My judo and Aikido help but not as much as you would think for having 30+ years experience. Thanks for your view on this , I I like hearing other people who are making a transition from one to the other
@@changym1980 i said not always, no "never", idiot. And thats a fucking honor for you? so asshole the judo guys are for consider a guy hurt as a "victory"? come on, fucking stupid. And i didn´t question you
@@marcelodiaz5006 lol when did I say hurting a guy from throw is a victory? I said throwing on the mat can seriously hurt someone. I think u have serious problem in understanding or having English problem!. But well a BJJ guy will not understand what is real jujutsu as to believe what the Gracie said they are doing reap jujutsu, in jujutsu the concept of throwing someone down wearing an armour is an effective way to end his life, the samurai who manage a throw would finish their opponent with a wakizashi, that is the original concept of ippon, u won't want to grapple your opponent on the ground in the battlefield for obvious reasons. Judo is a physical education, not for hurting people.
During the 40s the Japanese government used school P.E. classes to teach military skills, such as grenade throwing and using bayonets, to the youth of Japan. After Japan's defeat, Judo (also Kendo, Kyudo, and Karate) were banned from the P.E. curriculum in schools and universities in an effort to remove nationalistic and military style training. It wasn't until 1950 that Judo was allowed to be taught in schools again. This was only after petitions were made that described Judo as a sport that developed physical and mental faculties and not instruction for hand to hand combat. It's likely that most Japanese Judoka today were introduced to Judo at school where Judo had to exist as a sport not as a combat art. I wonder how much this has influenced the sport aspect of Judo today. It's also interesting to note that BJJ's origins are from earlier pre-war judo.
Judo is starting to get less effective due to all the rules that doesn't allow you to break grips once you establish them, no double legs, single legs, etc. along with not allowing you to be on the ground for long.
Hayashi's Dojo in El Paso TX does traditional judo. We train grip breaks, leg takedowns and techniques that are restricted by IJF. I think it depends on where you train and who you train with.
I've seen a lot of videos on BJJ they just pull guard against a judo, they always try to pull guard every single time. in a fight you'll start by standing up. ronda rousey was good because of her Judo, she will use a Judo throw slam you on the ground in a position to hit an arm bar. the weakness of BJJ is their stand up game. if I was to weight out Judo ground to BJJ stand up then Judo ground game is better. overall in a street fight judo will be more effective.
Close. Kano brought 10 schools of jujitsu together. This was initially called kano ryu jujitsu. Then Kano removed all the techniques that required superior size, strength, or stature. He then infused a spiritual mindfulness to his training and dubbed what he had distilled as "Kodokan Judo"
My jiu jitsu coach is also a black belt in Judo. He brought his judo coach to class tonight to teach us something a little different. I’m a white belt for 10 months and I’ve had terrible anxiety when it comes to standing. I’m definitely going to cross train judo . Absolute game changer for me personally.
@@lordkasten3161 You should train Judo before, mainly for health reasons: BJJ teaches really bad postures and doesn't train you to break falls at all properly. Even BJJ black belts hit the mat like potato sacks.
As someone who trains both. Judo really helps out during bjj competition. The fight always starts standing up. Every bjj tournament I go to the ref always laughs and says your a judo guy! The un orthodox grips really mess people up, and trying to take and not get taken down takes a lot of energy leaves both people tried. Both arts complement each other nicely.
Great video. We do the same at Colossal Fight Company, although currently our Judo classes do not immediately follow jui jitsu classes. Keep up the good work!
Bjj came from Judo.. I do both... but in bjj you focus on ground work, in 3 months of bjj probably you have trained more groundwork than a person than has trained 2 years of Judo. That means a white belt without stripes its in the same of a blue belt.in Judo.
I go to Gracie Barra for BJJ where I live and you can always tell who does or did judo in the past. That hip game, basing, and tilt is unmistakable to me now. Anytime I feel (not see) these things I know a hip toss attempt is coming. Fun competition because until it is on the ground things are pretty exciting at least to me.
Great commentary! I know the rules of competition mold both arts but speaking on the art itself, what techniques does BJJ have that Judo doesn't? If one were to train in just the art of Judo not influenced by competition which includes all the banned techniques of throws and groundwork, do you think one can arrive to the same level that the Gracies did for example? The reason I ask is because I have been to many Judo dojos and you're correct most focus on the next tournament which causes them to neglect much of the groundwork and banned techniques. After this long search I have found a dojo that focuses on Judo as an art includine all the banned techniques like leg locks, even neck cranks and sometimes striking.
Well, it's a complicated answer and I probably can't do justice here. But original Kodokan Judo wasn't a "style" so much as Kano's attempt to integrate and preserve traditional jiu-jitsu when the samurai arts were in decline (Meiji era). So, Judo has nagewaza (throws), katamewaza (pins, submissions), and atemiwaza (strikes), all taken from various systems of jiu-jitsu. In one sense, judo "has it all". But for a whole variety of reasons, that I can't go into depth here, Judo has come to focus more on nagewaza. There is also katamewaza and some schools are better than others; kosen judo focuses on this a lot more. You're lucky you found a school that is well-rounded, but that's not the vast majority of schools. So here is my experience. Yes, I learned newaza/groundfighting in Judo. There is also not much in BJJ that I have 'never seen' (maybe some leg locks and stupid inverted-spider-worm-x-guard stuff). But its a matter of learning the crude mechanics of a technique and the finer details. For example, before I got to Kama, I had learned sankaku jime (triangle choke) from guard in Judo. But seeing Ryan teach it, I saw a bunch of small details I'd been missing. Same with rear naked choke, kesa gatame, armbar from mount, etc, etc. The level of detail is simply amazing, and opened my eyes to a lot of what I'd been missing. That said, most BJJ schools really suck at throws and takedowns--not all, but most. Now, I've seen old videos of Helio Gracie demonstrating jiu-jitsu and he clearly knew how to do throws. Rickson Gracie even entered Sambo competitions. But for whatever reason, that side of things isn't taught as much. So as I said in the video, they come from the same origins, but have come to focus on different things.
isalehyan You're reply is much appreciated sir. Thank you. Normally I troll bjj channels just to get a discussion (argument) going on bjj being fancy newaza but comming from a fellow Judoka my ignorance tends to lessen and I must say your explanation is very eye opening.
Couple of points of expansion.... Maeda went to the US with an older Kodokan instructor to act as an assistant (guy to be thrown, etc--but also guy to take on challengers, since the older instructor was advanced in years). One night, at a pretty high profile demonstration, Maeda stayed back at the hotel because of gastrointestinal problems (he had the runs due to travel...a pretty common problem even today). And at the demo, the older instructor was challenged and then beaten. Maeda took this failure personally, and stayed behind to do challenge matches against all comers after the scheduled tour was over. Kano was basically infuriated by this...Maeda was acting like the jujutsu thugs Kano was trying to differentiate judo from by doing challenge prize fights. Kano pretty much told him not to bother coming back to Japan, so Maeda continued his touring into Brazil, where he hooked up with the Gracie family. Using his own family connections and knowledge of Japanese, he was valuable to the Brazilian government in relating between them and the Japanese immigrant community there. His close ties to the Gracie family led to his teaching the kids judo/jujutsu, which was the start of GJJ. (at the time, the line between "judo" and "jujutsu" was pretty grey... judo was essentially jujutsu, but called by a different name by Kano's Kodokan for PR purposes--jujutsu had a bad public image because jujutsu schools were spending their time prize fighting, brawling in the streets, etc, and just generally acting pretty ghetto....but Kano had much higher aspirations for the practice) But note--there was a large influx of Japanese immigration to Brazil at this time, and Maeda wasn't the only judo/jujutsu practitioner among them. BJJ isn't ONLY directly drawn down into the country through Maeda and the Gracie family.
Judo is great for any fighter to learn as its a great transitional from standing to ground. BJJ might be superior grappling but no one starts on their knees. Saying that a black belt in Judo usually just gets fed to the BJJ white belts and its pretty even until you get to blue when youre considered a very capable fighter. Both are super if you have time to do both. This guy is great and his judo background will make him a superb BJJ guy.
I know a judoka who is a bit older, and competed internationally in the 80s. I had this person watch some BJJ black belts grappling, and she wondered why they didn't just choke off the opponent in many instances when it was completely possible, or why they didn't do certain things on the ground. She said the way she was taught was also groundwork heavy and they did randori with a lot of ground work. It makes me wonder if today judo has been watered down in that department since then? Since you mention that it was at its best in the early 80s.
I study both and love both, my judo sensi who's a fellow student at the BJJ club I train at referred to it as learning a similar game with different rules, he compared it as being like the difference between rugby union and rugby league (I'm based in the uk). Thank you for this great comparison.
Also I know here in the UK judo guys like neil adams and Raymond Stevens (who's a roger gracie black belt) are being hired by BJJ schools to do seminars on the stand up game.
My school teaches judo and bjj. I'm a white belt in both, but I think they go hand in hand. I haven't done nearly as much Judo, but it seems more focused on takedowns.
great commentary. the point advantage you're talking about in bjj comes from folk style wrestlers. it's a longstanding technique/game of the system to "tech" your opponent instead of going for a head to head battle. it's actually respected in the wrestling community, because it shows that you have the ability to dominate your opponent in individual aspects of the sport. we love it because it's an undeniable evidence to the strong character and dedication of an athlete.
I really like the idea of being able to cross train at one school in the same night and from early stages of development. Brilliant business idea. Why didn't I think of it first? lol
Mitsuyo Maeda only changed the name from judo to ju jitsu in Brasil because he wasn't allowed to use judo in prizefighting from his masters so he changed it to Brazilian ju jitsu when he taught the gracies.
People who don’t train always seem to think there’s some sort of beef between BJJ and Judo. In reality, most judo and jiu jitsu guys I’ve met while training love cross training with both and enjoy having members of the other art to learn from. I’ve met Judokas with amazing newaza and some BJJ guys can take down Olympic-style judokas because said BJJ guys shoot double and single legs.
Kozen judo is not taught as much today because of the sport oriented competition. But look for a school that specialize on Kozen judo and there is not that much of a difference.
Ukkun Kun you said it. In Japan, in Mexico we had three senseis that taught that. Mr. Takeuchi who was sent by Kodokan to UNAN. In Baja California we had Ichinoe Masao along his student Campos. Take in account that three teachers for full country is nothing. And haven't heard if any sensei teaching here at U.S.A
Ukkun Kun and thats our problem here. We know that IJF is not the true essence of Judo as many think over here. There is way to much misinformation about what judo is. But thats what they know here, the Olimpyc Judo as they call it. And thanks for the invitation. Will go if able one day :)
Ukkun Kun then why don't you go destroy all the BJJ in their own tournaments then, bitchass. Back up your mouth. There should be decent money in prize money & sponsorship if you can back up what you say.
I’m a white belt judoka and I’m only two lessons in. I know comparatively nothing except what I’m receiving from my instructors. I will offer this though. They have told me there are three ways to throw, in any throw in judo. There’s a polite, competition way of throwing that also maintains control for newaza when you move to the ground, where you throw, hold and control your partner as they go to the mat, then close quickly on them as they can’t get away from your grip and evade your newaza. This is safe, polite and correct. Then there’s the beginner’s mistake, impolite and slightly more dangerous way of throwing, where you throw, but don’t control, let go your grip and increase the risk of hurting an inexperienced judoka by letting them drop. However, an experienced judoka will likely not take any damage, break fall and roll out of any ground danger and come back at you. Then there’s the nasty way to throw. You throw, control and drive them into the ground purposefully, and not necessarily safely, and that’s how you hurt, wind, injure and dominate opponents. I tell myself I need to stick to number one, never do number two because it is unsatisfactory for all reasons and I pray I never get to having to do number three. As a good practice and as a humbling exercise, a huge and very kind black belt took me on a tour of the mat only to work on my grip (for the purpose of improving my technique and control), and after five minutes of him resisting my amateurish attempts to tai otoshi, or de ashi barai, I was wasted. Throughout, he kept encouraging me, pulling me off balance now and then to wake me up to his threat, never hurling me like he so easily could, but helping me understand the value of the grip to me, and telling me it was good when I moved right, held right in the position and despite him being twice my size, I could see how the technique was aiding me mechanically. I’m really getting addicted! I’ll also add I’m 43 and this is my first experience with judo. Anyone reading this wondering if they’re too old, look at it this way - I’m glad I didn’t leave it until I was 44. The glass is half full.
I trained karate and kickboxing as a teenager and young adult. Went into my first GJJ class and felt like a newborn. That school also trained Judo throws, wrestling takedowns, and jiu-jitsu with light striking to learn how to keep a tight guard and avoid getting smacked in the face.
TV and Olympics destroyed Judo in my view. The judo rules are too much focused to generate “exciting throws” to TV audiences who are clueless about the deeper aspects of judo. Judo has fantastic techniques, but the rules encourage judokas to do things that don’t make sense in self-defense sense. Needless to say I prefer the “self-defense” philosophy of BJJ (although one should never, ever go ground in a self-defense situation...)
There is no answer because they are different rule sets. The BJJer would have a small advantage in their slower ground game with it's long buildups but not in the much faster judo ground game where you have to be actively moving or be stood up. The standing game would just be ugly using current rules where you can't touch pants. A friend uses a basketball way of deciding this: he says that the difference between the judoka and BJJer ground game is smaller than their difference standing. But I'm not sure this solves it. I believe that people who practice a martial art under a certain rule should always have an advantage against someone who crosses over from another martial arts.
Back in 2009 I was a study abroad student in South Korea and I ended up finding a Judo club that had their own gym on campus. What baffled me was that when our randori session went to the mat they stopped, while I kept going. They did not practice the newaza portion.
Yeah that turtling up is something i'm still trying to get out of my muscle memory. I realised it was a silly idea even before i started jiujitsu, because i never liked the idea that if i can hold you down for twenty seconds i win, even if i can't actually finish you, so i never tried for the pin. I still studied the immobalisations like any judoka, and i think it's definitely helped in my jiujitsu, but i only ever wanted to use them to tire my opponent and to work towards the submission. And so in judo when people turtle up imm really excited, cos i can get my hooks in or pull of a Jigoku Jime (hell strangle) or do a rolling jujigatame. Even so, i still fall into the turtle position if i get nearly broken down (what i call being taken down, but from the knees). Then i realise (my back's open) so then i start to open up, to roll to my back, then i realise 'no stay there! Your body was tight, now you've given them space to hook in' - then i'm defending the choke. The problem is that because of the jiujitsu i know, even just the little bit i've learned, when we do newaza in judo, i don't often end up needing to turtle. And because of that i never get practice to not-turtle. But in any case, i agree with the sportive habits, i'm trying to identify all the sportive habits i have and try to get rid of them. For example, trying not to turtle up and making sure i never pull guard (thankfully i've never needed to do that because of my judo background). It is definitely important to know if you're training your martial art or your martial sport
Thanks! Turtle is only one example. Try throwing someone who is trying to punch your face! The grips, distance management, and entries into throws are very different from sport judo where strikes aren’t allowed. Early Judo knew all of this stuff, since it was closer to original jiu jitsu.
isalehyan i agree. I've actually preemptively tried to counter this as when i spar i imagine that my opponent's gripping me is them punching me and try to avoid them and control them as if that were the case. I haven't had any practice involving strikes yet, but i have considered after my jiujitsu and judo game improves to look into training MMA, even recreationally, just to get a complete idea of what my skills are and how they can be applied in what is as close to a real streat fight as i will get to practice
Kama Jiu-Jitsu idk if my own personal desire to train MMA should affect the way in which my fellow club members train with me, but i'll give it some thought
Kama Jiu-Jitsu besides, i want to have a good grappling game that's solid before i start complicating things with punches and things involved. I think i won't train MMA until i get a black belt in judo and maybe i'll wait until i get a high belt in BJJ, like blue or purple, before i start to apply what i know to more complicated contexts
I am always curious how people with prior grappling experience assimilate into BJJ. It seems that in most striking arts when a black belt enters a dojo of a different striking art they still wear their black belt and it is more of a training then a learning process. I could be wrong, but it seems BJJ likes people to go through the process though including belt ranks. I’d be curious how it is generally handled, do people go through the belt process, but tend to spar with whoever is on their level, or go through the belt process faster?
Quite out of topic but I remember how I always respected Judo yet it never felt like a sport for me. During my first class of wrestling I would learn about uchi mata (no gi version of course) and I remember our little sparring sessions at the end where I executed it flawlesly and of course I take into consideration the skillset of my opponent who was quite new to wrestling himself but definitely higher in grappling experience. So I executed uchi mata and just by the name got curious of its origin, then I found a little more about Judo and actually loved the sport. You guys are absolute legends!
There aren't really too many people in the world who have a grasp of more than one or two complete systems of fighting. Its pretty difficult to judge styles unless you have direct experience with them.
I don't deny the Gracie's modified and spread jiu jitsu throughout the world, but there were others like, Luis Franca who learned from Mitsuyo Maeda, and not the Gracie's. Also, Oswaldo Fadda was a non gracie lineage that learned and taught almost the same jiu jitsu as the Gracie's. Ryan or Dave, can you tell me if there's any difference in jiu jitsu from the Gracie's side or the Fadda side. Thanks, love the channel!
Should also add Soshihiro Satake and Geo Omori to the list of influences on Franca and the Gracies. Maeda gets all of the credit, but there were other Kodokan black belts in Brazil that contributed to the development of the art.
Very informative video thanks man! I am considering getting myself into judo with my 5 and 7 year old boys. I like the idea of BJJ and judo together. Where are you located at? I am in Sacramento CA there is only 2 judo clubs here. I wish there was a BJJ and Judo like yours together. Keep up the good work!
Here's my experience. I have a blackbelt in Hakkoryu Japanese Jiujitsu and a purple in BJJ. I have visited many Judo schools and while there I had no problem with the nage- waza (throws etc) I actually did well fighting off their grips and such however the defensive pace is taxing. But my JJJ did not help that much in BJJ except being able to throw people and I could hit a lot of armbars. Being on your back and in someones guard your screwed. The ground transitions in BJJ reminded me more of my wrestling history. It's a shame that BJJ has dismissed a lot of the great throws and sweeps, that is the only thing I find annoying.
BJJ practitioners, i would guess, have not "dismissed" a lot of great throws and (foot) sweeps. it's just that when it comes down to it (and it goes back to our "little kid" preferences and tendencies), people seem to have more fun just grappling (vs taking each other down). if an instructor doesn't insist the daily training begin on their feet, left to their own devices, people will naturally just do the ground work. sad, but true.
I would also guess its also a function of the sport rules in BJJ. A takedown is two points regardless of how big or small the throw is. The vast majority of points, let alone submissions, are from the ground. So, given the incentives, why spend a lot of time training massive throwing techniques, when its only worth two points? If BJJ competition rules distinguished between, say a 4-point throw (similar to ippon) and a 2-point throw (waza-ari or yuko), people would start practicing throws more often.
isalehyan Yeah that's kind of my issue with BJJ now. At 46yo I still have the old school mentality and don't like the sport based train for points mentality. Recently I wanted to get back to BJJ after 13 years. I sought out a high ranking Carlson lineaged (mine) instructor. I heard him instructing on how to get points. Carlson was very competitive yes, but for fighting and tapping your opponent. I just don't like where BJJ is heading now. That was last year btw and I havn't stepped foot on another mat since.
thanks ryan, really really on point and an excellent explanation - neutral, objective, and i couldn't agree more - judo and jiu, both excellent, especially if you practice both!
Jesus Christ was a primitive communist. He whipped the money lenders out of the temple and spoke of sharing the means of production. Ie instead of giving a man a fish, teach a man to fish. ie free education. '24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’ [Matthew 19:24, One should ignore the misinterpretation that the ‘eye of the needle’ was a gate at the entry to Jerusalem, such understanding has no scholarly support]. Clearly jesus was an advocate of a resource based economy which is what the highest level of Communism is. I'm fairly certain Jesus didn't want the church system to become another capitalist entity exploiting people for profit and using its special status to dodge tax, not to mention all the mass murdering of other cultures and subsequent enslaving of them for profit, as well as all the sexual abuse.
^^ the level of intelligence we are dealing with, suddenly ideology becomes radiology. The kingdom of heaven is within fool. In communism there is a separation between organised religion and state, people can still retain personal beliefs they just can't force them on each other using the state mechanism. Its funny in AUstralia the private catholic schools still expect as much government funding as public schools. At the end of the day Jesus was not a christian, thats cult personality worship which jesus himself never espoused. He never declared himself to be god and in fact said we are all god as 'the kindgom of heaven is within' Likewise one would imagine the reverse is true too potentially and most people fall somewhere between these extremes.
I will never mock or condem ju jitsu, As a JUDOKA I've seen the benefits of a totally ne waza (Ground) fight art can contribute in street self defence.
I wonder if there's a school that teaches lethal judo techniques for self defense. Because I like stand up grappling techniques and a little ground technique..
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
"A good judo throw is a thing of beauty, it's art."
angel666 if a judo guy flipped you on your ass you would know about it mate
Indeed i do bjj and grappling with judo guys is fun. Before we get to the ground that stand off of who topples who is always so much fun
Judo guy = "I bet you can't take me down"
BJJ guy = "Yes take me down, I dare you."
Now are we talking on a nice, cushy mat, or on asphalt?
@Leo Sim then there's me, who runs really fast.😂
@Leo Sim dude. It was a joke in case it wasn't obvious. I can fight and I've fought quite a bit. 😉
I am personally a judo guy who went to a bjj class I was easily able to take them down, so I was able to have an advantageous position on the ground
How much i have to say JUDO HAVE GROUND TECHNIQUES AND BASED ON JUDO GROUND TECHNIQUES WAS CREATED BJJ.
Bjj and judo can learn from each and they should respect each other's styles and work together
Daryl Fields I’ve heard that judo is like ice cream, and bjj is like the cherry on top.
@@zackiinu7194 It's more like Judo is ice cream and bjj is gelato at least that's from my experiences
Mo Narchis That’s even better!
Everything BJJ has today is known as Kosen Judo. If you want to see where all and I mean all of your groundwork comes from then just search Kosen Judo and it'll all make sense when you see older Japanese Jodokha's from 70, 80 years ago all the moves are there if you want to search it, spider guard, you'll even see some butt scoutting,. Nothing personal just want to keep it real. I've been training for years and crossed trained with some BJJ clubs by me it was good but I went back to just Judo and really enjoy the fight-ending throws we use if its ever needed. Ask Helio Gracie the founder of BJJ how good Judo's grappling is,
@@aymanabaza6475 I know but bjj people won't acknowledge it
Oda developed Kosen Judo way before Maeda travelled to Brazil. The ground game was already very advanced in Judo dojos from Kyoto. The rivalry between stand-up Judo vs ground-game Judo already existed before Carlos and Hello were born. It existed in the Tokyo vs Kyoto Judo rivalry. The Kyoto branch of the Kodokan was highly focused on ground work almost exclusively. Granted, the Gracies certainly popularized the ground game across the world, but 80% of modern BJJ is just a slight improvement of what already existed in Judo ne-waza.
Being thrown onto concrete would be a fight stopper. With Judo you can probably fight more opponents at once.
How?😕
Roman Chumachenko I would think judo would be more “throw and go” so you could move from person to person but I don’t know what takedowns/throws bjj uses so I could be wrong
@@mintyghost8263 You could do " throw and go" I guess but if you are facing a group of people, there is no way to handle the fight with judo. Honestly, I haven't seen a single martial art that would handle more than one opponent for a regular practitioner. In bjj it's either wrestling takedowns or ankle picks from the old school judo.
I think there was a American Olympic judo guy who has a fight with like 6/7 guys many went to hospital from being slammed into concrete. Extreme example but he won the fight
Jujitsu weakness is multiple attackers and amazing strikers who have good defence against being taken down. No art is complete. You still need striking period.
I would really like to see the rift healed. More schools like this that have a Judo program AND a Jiu-Jitsu program, maybe even a wrestling program, to create a school with a complete grappling system. There's no reason BJJ and Judo should be trained a different locations. They are two parts of the same whole.
I agree.
I did Judo in the 1980-90s. Back then, it was 50/50 standing/ground. I won most of my competitions on the ground with submissions. I stopped for university. I came back post 2000s and it was a different sport. In order to keep itself as an Olympic sport, it made itself different than wrestling, more dynamic, and aimed more as standing. The rules changes they implemented were so significant -- no leg grabs, stand after even five seconds of inactivity, fewer partial points, quick penalties for inactivity, etc. -- while led to Judoka just going into guard assuming a quick stand up. IMO, this was too far removed from reality. Without their rules (even at 30+ and out of it for a decade) I could slaughter teen/twenty year-olds on the ground.
I looked ab BJJ, but again, too far removed from reality. Dropping to guard all the time is just asking to be kicked to death.
Yes, I can see just training both, and I'm sure some clubs share space. However, it's sad. If Judo didn't go through the 2000s rules changes, I'm pretty sure BJJ wouldn't have taken off. Judo would mostly have coverage it, except maybe no-gi training.
The culture is very different.
BJJ guys behave like ghetto bros (courtesy of the Gracie culture), which is quite incompatible with the respectful demeanor of Judo rooted in traditional Japanese culture.
Sambo
in the street though a ippon wins a fight quick,landing a person who doesnt know how to breakfall can do serious damage
TheSilatiger A young man in my town, from my old judo club in the 90's was honored by police after stopping an attacker with a machete assaulting a woman. He locked up his arm, threw, then pinned the assailant, all with whatever techniques he learned in judo. You are 100% correct: One hard, swift Judo throw on the street and it's game over for the other person. I know a few people and some law enforcement personnel ending situations like this based on one hard throw.
fhx for reply
Ukkun Kun If flight possible, flee. If not, fight. But if fight is chosen, be prepared for 'Manslaughter' criminal charge, Lawyers, Court, Prison etc.
lol, you guys call it quick landing? wrestlers call it getting tossed on your head, and yeah that's potentially lethal on the street, holy shit.
Going on the ground in street fight is not very good idea
Judo black belt here. Great commentary. I’m into the self defense side of judo like you are. Judo has a lot to offer for someone interested in self defense, and the focus on sport has caused this aspect of judo to be greatly neglected.
On the sportive side, we have a lot of BJJ guys join our school to learn the stand up game because it seems that their clubs do not emphasize this. Conversely we have guys who train at BJJ schools to improve their ground game. Each has something to teach someone from the other style. Just like you mention.
What do you think of judo vs wrestling? Ive been training bjj for years but I've always found judo fascinating. I've always wanted to pick it up, but I'm seeing so much wrestling being utilized in mma that it makes me wonder if I'd be better off going that direction. I wonder if it has to do with there being no gi
Freestyle wrestling is excellent to know. No question. I don't think judo is better than wrestling and vice versa. They both provide tools for dealing with the clinch. Judo works fine with no gi once you learn out to apply it without the jacket. I've played no gi with wrestlers. Some I could throw, some I couldn't. There was one guy who was a top college wrestler, and he whipped my ass many times. So ultimately I think it depends on the guy rather than the style. The only criticism I have about freestyle wrestling is that it emphasizes leg attacks too much. This makes it predictable. When someone is predictable it is more easy to defeat him. Consider, you used to see a lot of double leg shots in mma but now you don't see them so much because fighters have honed their double leg defenses. On the other hand, having leg attacks in the arsenal is helpful. That's one thing I don't like about IJF rules. They won't allow leg attacks.
honest lee Can’t go wrong with either. But if you can train wrestling in high school or college, do so. You get more training sessions and more intensity than in most judo clubs. It’s not so much about which is “better”, but about who trains more intensely.
in the end, i'll choose a trained individual over an untrained individual anytime. train in whatever you have access to that you also enjoy.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I think you must train for the right purposes ,the right way, and also train a martial art that is effective for it to make a big difference. There are many martial arts that dont give you an edge in a real fight so just being trained under a discipline because you enjoy it could give you a flawed perspectice on how you think you will perform in a fight.
There's a judo black belt at our gym and he throws everyone on their ass. It's pretty awesome stuff
Yup. But he also probably has a lot to learn on the ground. I think it’s a shame that the two arts have specialized to such a large extent.
Rustedblade Okay, egomaniac Judoka fool. Whatever you say.
Rustedblade Awwwe their he goes again. A real percieved intellectual living in his head led to speak on things.
Getting it wrong you sound bitter of Bjj. If you believe the last part of your comment you'd be better showing self control and keeping that imagined fantasy coming out of your pie hole shut.
But hey let free speech be free. It's a great thing to still have.
@rustedblade talks the talk but he admitted in another reply he doesn't walk the walk. Take it with a grain of salt. (That rhymed!)
Judo is pretty cool. I recommend looking into Catch wrestling and Greco Roman wrestling. The western equivalents and just as good as modern Bjj and Judo.
Matter of fact look into the origins of the Kimura, i believe in catch it's called Double wrist lock and Kimura did catch wrestling. Or check out Maeda, I'm pretty sure he had experience in Catch wrestling.
I’m a kodokan Black belt, and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu black belt promoted by GM Reyson Gracie, I live in japan for 22 years , and judokas always tend to forget the fact that Jigoro Kano studied JuJutsu. Mitsuyo Maeda was student of Tomita that trained at Tenshin Shinyo Ryu school that was specialized in newaza , when Mitsuyo Maeda taught the Gracie the Art was called Kano JuJutsu.
" judokas always tend to forget the fact that Jigoro Kano studied JuJutsu."
We know exactly where Judo comes from, thanks very much. Jujutsu, Jiu-Jitsu, Judo... all branches of the same tree.
What are you talking about? You mean to day that bjj players tend to forget that bjj comes from judo and Judo is jujitsu
@@Holmesson exactly! Very well said
As a retired former practitioner of both Judo and JuJitsu (Godan US Judo Assn., Godan Golden Gi JuJitsu Society) I have to say that Idean did a fantastic job of explaining in this video. Too many people today are unaware of the relationship between old style Judo which was known as Kano JuJitsu and the Newaza emphasized art of Gracie JuJitsu.
Is it still possible to learn the original jujutsu?
What a great video, thanks for sharing!
Judo back in those days isn't the judo you see today. Judo back then looked more like jujitsu today. The rule sets that surround judo today hurt judo with lost techniques and strategies. Hence, there are people that want to bring that back. And you hit a great point about the sport of anything and points.
There is aspect of it that helps in that by focusing their training to fewer techniques, they are better at those techniques (hypothetically).
Great explanation
@@gxtmfa Having sparred with these "nu Judo" types, I can only say they're mostly more GORILLA-LIKE in their approach to Judo. But they lose the subtlety and efficiency.
The Japanese Kodokan fighters maintain the traditional spirit in high level competitions a bit better.
Excellent info. Was an honour to learn this
As someone who practices both judo and jujitsu I found this video super enjoyable.
Ditto!
Christopher Carpenter would you agree that Judo is good for self-defense or not
yes, it is good for self defense or not
lol
Extremely fair and concise analysis. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
Wow that’s super insightful. Grew up doing Judo for most of my childhood. then had a hiatus for 25 years. now entering a journey in JiuJitsu. Purely as a journeyman. I would love to combine these two arts.
Sports aside, Judo is a modified form of Jujutsu with a shifted emphasis, which was made famous and then infamous by the Samurai. At the time of its creation it was still Jujutsu, but that name had a stigma, so the founder removed the "jutsu" and replaced it with "do", which made it seem more philosophical. So that's where we get the name Judo. Judo, is just Jigoro Kano's modified version of the Jujutsu that he was taught. BJJ is Judo, but with emphasis placed on the ground game and with modifications.
So when you go out there into the world to learn striking, throws, grappling, and submissions from a plethora of global martial arts, all you are doing is coming full circle and creating your on Jujutsu. Jujutsu Watashi No Michi.
Very well said! Bjj is judo no matter how they try and twist it. Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a "do" art , which is nothing but judo newaza with a different rule set.
Man, great video! Really impressed by this gentleman's insight, respect, and articulation.
Many many good points in this video!
The Gracies did not to quote the video "developed the ground work of judo to a much higher level", what they did were always judo. Read Oswaldo Alves's interview, he has done more in developing modern BJJ than just about anybody. His most accomplished student was Rolls Gracie. Oswaldo Alves himself spent time studying judo four four years in Japan and under the famous sensei Isao Okano, and there were techniques Master Alves have not seen in BJJ. Even the Sankaku-jime (triangle strangle) was not really used much in competition until Rolls found it is some old judo book and began using it. So it is important to study history first before one teaches it, many instructors are ignorant of the history of this martial art. Furthermore, if the average American black belt in judo has a hard time against blue or purple belt in BJJ, he has not studied judo comprehensively, and not has studied newaza well, period.
Ever wonder why Judo blackebelts are allowed to compete at Blue Belt level BJJ competitions? His comments are valid, yes there are exceptions but most Judo Schools historically much weaker on newaza.
Great comment. Brazilian guy speaking here. Can you link the interview you mentioned? Thanks
That's some important info I wasn't aware. Another thing people likes to forget is that Mitsuyo Maeda was a Catch Wrestler. The Wrestling (they have their own developed system, Shoot Wrestling) in Japan is somewhat unknow for so many people and for I'm investigating is responsible in more than one way in BJJs birth since wrestling was something popular in brazil too.
Very well spoken video properly explaining the difference between judo and jiu-jitsu.. coming from about 8 years at a traditional judo school I completely agreed with this!.. well done!
Please don't buy into the Gracies narrative saying that Helio invented the guard. He did not invent the guard. The open and closed guard was used in Japan from at least the 1890's through the very early 1900's.
Look up the book written by Taro Miyake and Yukio Tani. It's called: "The Game of Jujitsu" and details how to get subs from both the open and closed guard. The book was written in 1906.
What Helio did do was develop techniques to defend yourself in vale tudo from the guard position.
What were the samurai doing other than preparing for a “street fight”?
isalehyan "Judo is nothing less than a martial art. When a soldier breaks his sword and runs out of arrows, in the end, life and death is determined with newaza.”
- Tatsukuma Ushijima
i've only heard one of them say that, but who knows what they all believe. what i've heard most, was that if not for Helio, no one would really be fighting from the guard. not that the concepts and techniques didn't exist before, but that prior to him, no one really did it, is all.
BigJules89 that is awesome love it
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I agree. Helio and his family preserved and also developed Jiu Jitsu to become street applicable. Most people would not know how to fight from various guard positions and defend themselves.
Jiu Jitsu in Japan from a century ago eventually turned into the sport throwing judo that we see today and all the guard pulling was banned by Jigoro Kano because it negated his tachi-waza (throws) that he developed and he also felt that judo was becoming too sportive and was losing its self defense aspect. No more guard pulling in Kodokan Judo as a result.
The only ones that continue to practice guard pulling in competition is in the Kosen Judo ruleset. Kano allowed this because he also wanted newaza to be developed at the same time.
Fun fact: the triangle choke was developed in Kosen Judo in the early 1920's.
real honest and very intressting . we are not here to compare whitch is best ,but to learn the best of these 2 arts
The most intelligent compersion the topic on the whole internet!!!
Great explanation on the differences! Much appreciated.
My background is Judo, Aikido, and Taekwondo. I'm currently taking Kenpo and Jiu-Jitsu. My judo and Aikido help but not as much as you would think for having 30+ years experience. Thanks for your view on this , I I like hearing other people who are making a transition from one to the other
Total agree with this man. Martial arts are one big family learning off each other.
The ridiculous ijf rules destroy judos takedown defense because there's no need to worry about someones hand on your leg
in th Kodokan leg grabs are still allowed. In many clubs too. It doesn't take long to learn to sprawl.
@@augustineleudar you mean in Japan?
@@mpforeverunlimited yeah at the Kodokan but theres also clubs around the world that follow Kodokan not IJF rules -
As opposed to bjj where you can freely pull guard...
Really good explanation ,well done sir 😎👍🙏
a good throw can end the fight
I bet it will end the fight if the floor is asphalt.
Not always
@@marcelodiaz5006 just yesterday a guy thrown on the mat and he is in hospital. Not even asphalt mind u 😉
@@changym1980 i said not always, no "never", idiot. And thats a fucking honor for you? so asshole the judo guys are for consider a guy hurt as a "victory"? come on, fucking stupid. And i didn´t question you
@@marcelodiaz5006 lol when did I say hurting a guy from throw is a victory? I said throwing on the mat can seriously hurt someone. I think u have serious problem in understanding or having English problem!. But well a BJJ guy will not understand what is real jujutsu as to believe what the Gracie said they are doing reap jujutsu, in jujutsu the concept of throwing someone down wearing an armour is an effective way to end his life, the samurai who manage a throw would finish their opponent with a wakizashi, that is the original concept of ippon, u won't want to grapple your opponent on the ground in the battlefield for obvious reasons. Judo is a physical education, not for hurting people.
Excellent and honest analysis. Well done sir.
During the 40s the Japanese government used school P.E. classes to teach military skills, such as grenade throwing and using bayonets, to the youth of Japan. After Japan's defeat, Judo (also Kendo, Kyudo, and Karate) were banned from the P.E. curriculum in schools and universities in an effort to remove nationalistic and military style training. It wasn't until 1950 that Judo was allowed to be taught in schools again. This was only after petitions were made that described Judo as a sport that developed physical and mental faculties and not instruction for hand to hand combat. It's likely that most Japanese Judoka today were introduced to Judo at school where Judo had to exist as a sport not as a combat art. I wonder how much this has influenced the sport aspect of Judo today. It's also interesting to note that BJJ's origins are from earlier pre-war judo.
well said do vs itsu
Wow. I have been looking for this explanation for a long time. Thank you very much.
I agree both should be taken at the same time. They work very well together.
Work? Have you ever seen a Judo take down in the UFC?????? THats how usless they are
Thank you Mr Salehyan for your very honest and mature explanation of judo and bjj. I enjoyed watching your presentation.
Judo is starting to get less effective due to all the rules that doesn't allow you to break grips once you establish them, no double legs, single legs, etc. along with not allowing you to be on the ground for long.
TapsandTraps This is true if your school focuses on competition only. At Kama we continue to teach all of judo, including leg attacks, gripping, etc.
Hayashi's Dojo in El Paso TX does traditional judo. We train grip breaks, leg takedowns and techniques that are restricted by IJF. I think it depends on where you train and who you train with.
I gave up on IJF nonsense 20 years ago. Using the Kosen Ruleset allows for greater newaza.
Look into 'Freestyle Judo'. It's an alternative rule set that brings judo back to where it was before all the crazy IJF rule changes.
I've seen a lot of videos on BJJ they just pull guard against a judo, they always try to pull guard every single time. in a fight you'll start by standing up. ronda rousey was good because of her Judo, she will use a Judo throw slam you on the ground in a position to hit an arm bar. the weakness of BJJ is their stand up game. if I was to weight out Judo ground to BJJ stand up then Judo ground game is better. overall in a street fight judo will be more effective.
Judo is also a school of Jiu-Jitsu; Kano Jiu-Jitsu.
The main difference and influence here are the competition rules; IBJJF vs IJF vs etc.
Close.
Kano brought 10 schools of jujitsu together. This was initially called kano ryu jujitsu. Then Kano removed all the techniques that required superior size, strength, or stature.
He then infused a spiritual mindfulness to his training and dubbed what he had distilled as "Kodokan Judo"
My jiu jitsu coach is also a black belt in Judo. He brought his judo coach to class tonight to teach us something a little different.
I’m a white belt for 10 months and I’ve had terrible anxiety when it comes to standing. I’m definitely going to cross train judo . Absolute game changer for me personally.
judo is so epic, i love the judo throws
How long should I train BJJ before moving into cross training judo?
@@lordkasten3161 doesn't really matter. They won't contradict each other and it will help your bjj
@@lordkasten3161 You should train Judo before, mainly for health reasons:
BJJ teaches really bad postures and doesn't train you to break falls at all properly.
Even BJJ black belts hit the mat like potato sacks.
Having trained both, I definitely agree that Judo breakfall is more detailed and teaches you how to fall from every side and position.
Great vid. Shows understanding and respect for both disciplines.
As someone who trains both. Judo really helps out during bjj competition. The fight always starts standing up. Every bjj tournament I go to the ref always laughs and says your a judo guy! The un orthodox grips really mess people up, and trying to take and not get taken down takes a lot of energy leaves both people tried. Both arts complement each other nicely.
seeing as how they come from the same "genesis," it makes sense that they would complement eachother...
Great video. We do the same at Colossal Fight Company, although currently our Judo classes do not immediately follow jui jitsu classes. Keep up the good work!
Since they are the same art they should be trained together . As Joe Rogan said Jūdō on the street is lethal in that environment .
Best comparison of GJJ vs Judo ever! Thank you!
usa pokerpro glad you liked it
usa pokerpro wtf
gracie
Bjj came from Judo.. I do both... but in bjj you focus on ground work, in 3 months of bjj probably you have trained more groundwork than a person than has trained 2 years of Judo. That means a white belt without stripes its in the same of a blue belt.in Judo.
usa pokerpro I've rolled no gi with some guys and they really have adapted their judo skills for grappling. I will soon do the same
This guy explains things very well from many angles. .
This guy knows his shit . Good shit.
I go to Gracie Barra for BJJ where I live and you can always tell who does or did judo in the past. That hip game, basing, and tilt is unmistakable to me now. Anytime I feel (not see) these things I know a hip toss attempt is coming. Fun competition because until it is on the ground things are pretty exciting at least to me.
Great commentary!
I know the rules of competition mold both arts but speaking on the art itself, what techniques does BJJ have that Judo doesn't?
If one were to train in just the art of Judo not influenced by competition which includes all the banned techniques of throws and groundwork, do you think one can arrive to the same level that the Gracies did for example?
The reason I ask is because I have been to many Judo dojos and you're correct most focus on the next tournament which causes them to neglect much of the groundwork and banned techniques. After this long search I have found a dojo that focuses on Judo as an art includine all the banned techniques like leg locks, even neck cranks and sometimes striking.
You just might have something good there.
Well, it's a complicated answer and I probably can't do justice here. But original Kodokan Judo wasn't a "style" so much as Kano's attempt to integrate and preserve traditional jiu-jitsu when the samurai arts were in decline (Meiji era). So, Judo has nagewaza (throws), katamewaza (pins, submissions), and atemiwaza (strikes), all taken from various systems of jiu-jitsu. In one sense, judo "has it all".
But for a whole variety of reasons, that I can't go into depth here, Judo has come to focus more on nagewaza. There is also katamewaza and some schools are better than others; kosen judo focuses on this a lot more. You're lucky you found a school that is well-rounded, but that's not the vast majority of schools.
So here is my experience. Yes, I learned newaza/groundfighting in Judo. There is also not much in BJJ that I have 'never seen' (maybe some leg locks and stupid inverted-spider-worm-x-guard stuff). But its a matter of learning the crude mechanics of a technique and the finer details. For example, before I got to Kama, I had learned sankaku jime (triangle choke) from guard in Judo. But seeing Ryan teach it, I saw a bunch of small details I'd been missing. Same with rear naked choke, kesa gatame, armbar from mount, etc, etc. The level of detail is simply amazing, and opened my eyes to a lot of what I'd been missing.
That said, most BJJ schools really suck at throws and takedowns--not all, but most. Now, I've seen old videos of Helio Gracie demonstrating jiu-jitsu and he clearly knew how to do throws. Rickson Gracie even entered Sambo competitions. But for whatever reason, that side of things isn't taught as much. So as I said in the video, they come from the same origins, but have come to focus on different things.
isalehyan You're reply is much appreciated sir.
Thank you.
Normally I troll bjj channels just to get a discussion (argument) going on bjj being fancy newaza but comming from a fellow Judoka my ignorance tends to lessen and I must say your explanation is very eye opening.
You should have asked the Gun Range guys what they thought of Judo & Jiu Jitsu
They built the gun range and the entire building with the jiu-Jitsu studio in mind.
My brothers-in-arms ain't no dummies
A lot of the jiu jitsu guys are also gun range guys.
@@gxtmfa this is the way
Great thoughts and Insides.
Couple of points of expansion.... Maeda went to the US with an older Kodokan instructor to act as an assistant (guy to be thrown, etc--but also guy to take on challengers, since the older instructor was advanced in years). One night, at a pretty high profile demonstration, Maeda stayed back at the hotel because of gastrointestinal problems (he had the runs due to travel...a pretty common problem even today). And at the demo, the older instructor was challenged and then beaten. Maeda took this failure personally, and stayed behind to do challenge matches against all comers after the scheduled tour was over. Kano was basically infuriated by this...Maeda was acting like the jujutsu thugs Kano was trying to differentiate judo from by doing challenge prize fights. Kano pretty much told him not to bother coming back to Japan, so Maeda continued his touring into Brazil, where he hooked up with the Gracie family. Using his own family connections and knowledge of Japanese, he was valuable to the Brazilian government in relating between them and the Japanese immigrant community there. His close ties to the Gracie family led to his teaching the kids judo/jujutsu, which was the start of GJJ. (at the time, the line between "judo" and "jujutsu" was pretty grey... judo was essentially jujutsu, but called by a different name by Kano's Kodokan for PR purposes--jujutsu had a bad public image because jujutsu schools were spending their time prize fighting, brawling in the streets, etc, and just generally acting pretty ghetto....but Kano had much higher aspirations for the practice)
But note--there was a large influx of Japanese immigration to Brazil at this time, and Maeda wasn't the only judo/jujutsu practitioner among them. BJJ isn't ONLY directly drawn down into the country through Maeda and the Gracie family.
That explains BJJ culture a lot:
Brazilian Jewish thugs who learned from a Japanese thug rejected by Jigoro Kano.
Both are great and compliment each other. The best fighters I have seen understand more than just one art.
That is awesome that you teaching Judo at the same school that you teach Brazilian Jiu Jitsu!
That's normal at our academy.
Very interesting, thanks for the great content
Judo is great for any fighter to learn as its a great transitional from standing to ground. BJJ might be superior grappling but no one starts on their knees. Saying that a black belt in Judo usually just gets fed to the BJJ white belts and its pretty even until you get to blue when youre considered a very capable fighter. Both are super if you have time to do both. This guy is great and his judo background will make him a superb BJJ guy.
Try to learn the real one martial art, the Japanese jujitsu not the grappling Bjj.
as judo player of 30 years to me judo ground work was at its best in early 80s
I know a judoka who is a bit older, and competed internationally in the 80s. I had this person watch some BJJ black belts grappling, and she wondered why they didn't just choke off the opponent in many instances when it was completely possible, or why they didn't do certain things on the ground. She said the way she was taught was also groundwork heavy and they did randori with a lot of ground work. It makes me wonder if today judo has been watered down in that department since then? Since you mention that it was at its best in the early 80s.
If I could, I'd do both. They complement eachother to perfection.
Very thorough explanation.
I study both and love both, my judo sensi who's a fellow student at the BJJ club I train at referred to it as learning a similar game with different rules, he compared it as being like the difference between rugby union and rugby league (I'm based in the uk). Thank you for this great comparison.
Also I know here in the UK judo guys like neil adams and Raymond Stevens (who's a roger gracie black belt) are being hired by BJJ schools to do seminars on the stand up game.
In NZ that's how I describe it too. Same martial art different sports
Great comments good perspective
My school teaches judo and bjj. I'm a white belt in both, but I think they go hand in hand. I haven't done nearly as much Judo, but it seems more focused on takedowns.
great commentary. the point advantage you're talking about in bjj comes from folk style wrestlers. it's a longstanding technique/game of the system to "tech" your opponent instead of going for a head to head battle. it's actually respected in the wrestling community, because it shows that you have the ability to dominate your opponent in individual aspects of the sport. we love it because it's an undeniable evidence to the strong character and dedication of an athlete.
I really like the idea of being able to cross train at one school in the same night and from early stages of development. Brilliant business idea. Why didn't I think of it first? lol
Great explanation of difference between Judo and BJJ, as well as sports vs self-defense training. Respect. :)
Mitsuyo Maeda only changed the name from judo to ju jitsu in Brasil because he wasn't allowed to use judo in prizefighting from his masters so he changed it to Brazilian ju jitsu when he taught the gracies.
Well explained. Thank you.
People who don’t train always seem to think there’s some sort of beef between BJJ and Judo. In reality, most judo and jiu jitsu guys I’ve met while training love cross training with both and enjoy having members of the other art to learn from. I’ve met Judokas with amazing newaza and some BJJ guys can take down Olympic-style judokas because said BJJ guys shoot double and single legs.
Great instructive video. I now better understand the fundamental differences between judo and bjj, thank you.
Kozen judo is not taught as much today because of the sport oriented competition. But look for a school that specialize on Kozen judo and there is not that much of a difference.
Ukkun Kun you said it. In Japan, in Mexico we had three senseis that taught that. Mr. Takeuchi who was sent by Kodokan to UNAN. In Baja California we had Ichinoe Masao along his student Campos. Take in account that three teachers for full country is nothing. And haven't heard if any sensei teaching here at U.S.A
Ukkun Kun and thats our problem here. We know that IJF is not the true essence of Judo as many think over here. There is way to much misinformation about what judo is. But thats what they know here, the Olimpyc Judo as they call it. And thanks for the invitation. Will go if able one day :)
Ukkun Kun just wants a free BJJ lesson. Come and pay for it like everyone else.
Ukkun Kun Hi, I would like to do Kosen Judo in Tokyo. I just trained once at Hokudai. Do you have a recommendation?
Ukkun Kun
then why don't you go destroy all the BJJ in their own tournaments then, bitchass. Back up your mouth. There should be decent money in prize money & sponsorship if you can back up what you say.
I’m a white belt judoka and I’m only two lessons in. I know comparatively nothing except what I’m receiving from my instructors. I will offer this though. They have told me there are three ways to throw, in any throw in judo. There’s a polite, competition way of throwing that also maintains control for newaza when you move to the ground, where you throw, hold and control your partner as they go to the mat, then close quickly on them as they can’t get away from your grip and evade your newaza. This is safe, polite and correct. Then there’s the beginner’s mistake, impolite and slightly more dangerous way of throwing, where you throw, but don’t control, let go your grip and increase the risk of hurting an inexperienced judoka by letting them drop. However, an experienced judoka will likely not take any damage, break fall and roll out of any ground danger and come back at you. Then there’s the nasty way to throw. You throw, control and drive them into the ground purposefully, and not necessarily safely, and that’s how you hurt, wind, injure and dominate opponents. I tell myself I need to stick to number one, never do number two because it is unsatisfactory for all reasons and I pray I never get to having to do number three. As a good practice and as a humbling exercise, a huge and very kind black belt took me on a tour of the mat only to work on my grip (for the purpose of improving my technique and control), and after five minutes of him resisting my amateurish attempts to tai otoshi, or de ashi barai, I was wasted. Throughout, he kept encouraging me, pulling me off balance now and then to wake me up to his threat, never hurling me like he so easily could, but helping me understand the value of the grip to me, and telling me it was good when I moved right, held right in the position and despite him being twice my size, I could see how the technique was aiding me mechanically. I’m really getting addicted! I’ll also add I’m 43 and this is my first experience with judo. Anyone reading this wondering if they’re too old, look at it this way - I’m glad I didn’t leave it until I was 44. The glass is half full.
The "pure technique" vs. having to use just "brute strength" (hint - strength is a skill) is a canard but you hear it a lot in Jiu Jitsu and Judo.
That is awesome! I think every Judo and Jujitsu club should do both. And also, very good and fair description of both styles.
I do Judo, BJJ and nogi. I love them all. They've each got different strengths that complement my wrestling and make my training more complete.
I trained karate and kickboxing as a teenager and young adult. Went into my first GJJ class and felt like a newborn. That school also trained Judo throws, wrestling takedowns, and jiu-jitsu with light striking to learn how to keep a tight guard and avoid getting smacked in the face.
TV and Olympics destroyed Judo in my view. The judo rules are too much focused to generate “exciting throws” to TV audiences who are clueless about the deeper aspects of judo. Judo has fantastic techniques, but the rules encourage judokas to do things that don’t make sense in self-defense sense. Needless to say I prefer the “self-defense” philosophy of BJJ (although one should never, ever go ground in a self-defense situation...)
It depends on the coach and strategy.
Some coaches will scream if you do not follow up with groundwork.
On hard surfaces, judo is King. Pavement being my preferred weapon of choice.
So, where can I learn these dangerous techniques that they took out?
not from a jedi
@@MagmaInc fear leads to anger!
I like how he dodges the main question that's on everyones mind, would a bjj practitioner beat a judo practitioner
depends. what's the objective? an ippon, or a sub?
There is no answer because they are different rule sets. The BJJer would have a small advantage in their slower ground game with it's long buildups but not in the much faster judo ground game where you have to be actively moving or be stood up. The standing game would just be ugly using current rules where you can't touch pants.
A friend uses a basketball way of deciding this: he says that the difference between the judoka and BJJer ground game is smaller than their difference standing.
But I'm not sure this solves it.
I believe that people who practice a martial art under a certain rule should always have an advantage against someone who crosses over from another martial arts.
Back in 2009 I was a study abroad student in South Korea and I ended up finding a Judo club that had their own gym on campus. What baffled me was that when our randori session went to the mat they stopped, while I kept going. They did not practice the newaza portion.
I THINK OF IT LIKE THIS:
JUDO: KISS ME ON THE STREET SWEEP ME OFF MY FEET.
JITSU: SWEEP ME OFF MY FEET, SCREW ME ON MY BACK....
No homo, man...
I think pulling guard can be good in self-defense if you use the rubber guard.
Do what works for you.
Yeah that turtling up is something i'm still trying to get out of my muscle memory. I realised it was a silly idea even before i started jiujitsu, because i never liked the idea that if i can hold you down for twenty seconds i win, even if i can't actually finish you, so i never tried for the pin. I still studied the immobalisations like any judoka, and i think it's definitely helped in my jiujitsu, but i only ever wanted to use them to tire my opponent and to work towards the submission. And so in judo when people turtle up imm really excited, cos i can get my hooks in or pull of a Jigoku Jime (hell strangle) or do a rolling jujigatame. Even so, i still fall into the turtle position if i get nearly broken down (what i call being taken down, but from the knees). Then i realise (my back's open) so then i start to open up, to roll to my back, then i realise 'no stay there! Your body was tight, now you've given them space to hook in' - then i'm defending the choke.
The problem is that because of the jiujitsu i know, even just the little bit i've learned, when we do newaza in judo, i don't often end up needing to turtle. And because of that i never get practice to not-turtle.
But in any case, i agree with the sportive habits, i'm trying to identify all the sportive habits i have and try to get rid of them. For example, trying not to turtle up and making sure i never pull guard (thankfully i've never needed to do that because of my judo background). It is definitely important to know if you're training your martial art or your martial sport
Thanks! Turtle is only one example. Try throwing someone who is trying to punch your face! The grips, distance management, and entries into throws are very different from sport judo where strikes aren’t allowed. Early Judo knew all of this stuff, since it was closer to original jiu jitsu.
isalehyan i agree. I've actually preemptively tried to counter this as when i spar i imagine that my opponent's gripping me is them punching me and try to avoid them and control them as if that were the case. I haven't had any practice involving strikes yet, but i have considered after my jiujitsu and judo game improves to look into training MMA, even recreationally, just to get a complete idea of what my skills are and how they can be applied in what is as close to a real streat fight as i will get to practice
easy to do now. just throw punches and slaps while training. slowly take up the intensity as time goes on and your skills increase.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu idk if my own personal desire to train MMA should affect the way in which my fellow club members train with me, but i'll give it some thought
Kama Jiu-Jitsu besides, i want to have a good grappling game that's solid before i start complicating things with punches and things involved. I think i won't train MMA until i get a black belt in judo and maybe i'll wait until i get a high belt in BJJ, like blue or purple, before i start to apply what i know to more complicated contexts
Thank you
Enjoyable video. Ironic what started Japan became separated and is now being brought back together in the melting pot of nations.
I am always curious how people with prior grappling experience assimilate into BJJ. It seems that in most striking arts when a black belt enters a dojo of a different striking art they still wear their black belt and it is more of a training then a learning process. I could be wrong, but it seems BJJ likes people to go through the process though including belt ranks. I’d be curious how it is generally handled, do people go through the belt process, but tend to spar with whoever is on their level, or go through the belt process faster?
Depending upon who you train with, they can be almost identical.
Quite out of topic but I remember how I always respected Judo yet it never felt like a sport for me. During my first class of wrestling I would learn about uchi mata (no gi version of course) and I remember our little sparring sessions at the end where I executed it flawlesly and of course I take into consideration the skillset of my opponent who was quite new to wrestling himself but definitely higher in grappling experience. So I executed uchi mata and just by the name got curious of its origin, then I found a little more about Judo and actually loved the sport. You guys are absolute legends!
There aren't really too many people in the world who have a grasp of more than one or two complete systems of fighting. Its pretty difficult to judge styles unless you have direct experience with them.
I didn’t know Rickson Gracie lost... did Rodrigo Gracie lose to any Japanese fighters?
Mr. Salehyan, how do you think the Japanese Jiu-Jitsu schools compared what the Arts that you teach?
I don't deny the Gracie's modified and spread jiu jitsu throughout the world, but there were others like, Luis Franca who learned from Mitsuyo Maeda, and not the Gracie's. Also, Oswaldo Fadda was a non gracie lineage that learned and taught almost the same jiu jitsu as the Gracie's. Ryan or Dave, can you tell me if there's any difference in jiu jitsu from the Gracie's side or the Fadda side. Thanks, love the channel!
I think at the time, they were largely the same. Not so sure about today.
Kama Jiu-Jitsu thanks!! Love the channel! Keep up the videos...
Should also add Soshihiro Satake and Geo Omori to the list of influences on Franca and the Gracies. Maeda gets all of the credit, but there were other Kodokan black belts in Brazil that contributed to the development of the art.
Very informative video thanks man! I am considering getting myself into judo with my 5 and 7 year old boys. I like the idea of BJJ and judo together. Where are you located at? I am in Sacramento CA there is only 2 judo clubs here. I wish there was a BJJ and Judo like yours together. Keep up the good work!
Here's my experience.
I have a blackbelt in Hakkoryu Japanese Jiujitsu and a purple in BJJ. I have visited many Judo schools and while there I had no problem with the nage- waza (throws etc) I actually did well fighting off their grips and such however the defensive pace is taxing. But my JJJ did not help that much in BJJ except being able to throw people and I could hit a lot of armbars. Being on your back and in someones guard your screwed. The ground transitions in BJJ reminded me more of my wrestling history. It's a shame that BJJ has dismissed a lot of the great throws and sweeps, that is the only thing I find annoying.
BJJ practitioners, i would guess, have not "dismissed" a lot of great throws and (foot) sweeps. it's just that when it comes down to it (and it goes back to our "little kid" preferences and tendencies), people seem to have more fun just grappling (vs taking each other down). if an instructor doesn't insist the daily training begin on their feet, left to their own devices, people will naturally just do the ground work.
sad, but true.
I would also guess its also a function of the sport rules in BJJ. A takedown is two points regardless of how big or small the throw is. The vast majority of points, let alone submissions, are from the ground. So, given the incentives, why spend a lot of time training massive throwing techniques, when its only worth two points? If BJJ competition rules distinguished between, say a 4-point throw (similar to ippon) and a 2-point throw (waza-ari or yuko), people would start practicing throws more often.
isalehyan Yeah that's kind of my issue with BJJ now. At 46yo I still have the old school mentality and don't like the sport based train for points mentality. Recently I wanted to get back to BJJ after 13 years. I sought out a high ranking Carlson lineaged (mine) instructor. I heard him instructing on how to get points. Carlson was very competitive yes, but for fighting and tapping your opponent. I just don't like where BJJ is heading now. That was last year btw and I havn't stepped foot on another mat since.
thanks ryan, really really on point and an excellent explanation - neutral, objective, and i couldn't agree more - judo and jiu, both excellent, especially if you practice both!
I like this explanation of difference of emphasis rather than a fundamental difference between judo and bjj
Oh, c’mon! That’s not something Christ would say, now is it?
Jesus Christ was a primitive communist.
He whipped the money lenders out of the temple and spoke of sharing the means of production. Ie instead of giving a man a fish, teach a man to fish. ie free education.
'24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for
someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’ [Matthew 19:24, One should
ignore the misinterpretation that the ‘eye of the needle’ was a gate at the entry to
Jerusalem, such understanding has no scholarly support].
Clearly jesus was an advocate of a resource based economy which is what the highest level of Communism is.
I'm fairly certain Jesus didn't want the church system to become another capitalist entity exploiting people for profit and using its special status to dodge tax, not to mention all the mass murdering of other cultures and subsequent enslaving of them for profit, as well as all the sexual abuse.
LMAO. okaaay. we can debate this more on my other channel.
Fair enough lol
^^ the level of intelligence we are dealing with, suddenly ideology becomes radiology.
The kingdom of heaven is within fool.
In communism there is a separation between organised religion and state, people can still retain personal beliefs they just can't force them on each other using the state mechanism.
Its funny in AUstralia the private catholic schools still expect as much government funding as public schools.
At the end of the day Jesus was not a christian, thats cult personality worship which jesus himself never espoused. He never declared himself to be god and in fact said we are all god as 'the kindgom of heaven is within'
Likewise one would imagine the reverse is true too potentially and most people fall somewhere between these extremes.
BAHAHAHAHA!!! you're doing a martial arts interview at a gun range? I think I am in love!!!!
boom boom boom...
I will never mock or condem ju jitsu, As a JUDOKA I've seen the benefits of a totally ne waza (Ground) fight art can contribute in street self defence.
Thanks for this.
Excelente. Bjj and judo together. A winning solution.
I wonder if there's a school that teaches lethal judo techniques for self defense. Because I like stand up grappling techniques and a little ground technique..