I admire the Grenadier, had the money down, but canceled as we had other priorities. I own a Defender 110 2.2 (2013). I can tell you I will never sell the Defender. I am too attached and have spend plenty of money on upgrading with heavy duty parts, full sound proofing etc etc. The Defender has more (easier) loading space for my use. We will most likely buy a Grenadier in the near future, but it will be mostly my wifes car as she likes to have an automatic.I admire Jim Ratcliffe for having started this. I agree with Mathis and many other Defender owners, it might have plenty of short comings compared to modern cars, but the fact that around 70% of all manufactured Defenders are still registered says something about the car. But to each their own. I hope the Grenadier becomes a success.
If, as some have said, the old Defender was struggling to sell, It made sense for JLR to update the concept. Farmers buy pickups these days to ferry straw and sheep. At a starting price of £79k it’s more expensive than a new Defender and way more expensive than a Landcruiser. It’s more G-Wagen than Landy given the amount of German parts in it ;-)
"I would consider gluing myself to its engine in protest" -> That's the most amazing quote I've head in a while, LOL! Love it! I don't blame you for not "upgrading", there's something special about old iron. Great video, I haven't seen anyone else push a Grenadier on the road yet as much as you did. Looking forward to more videos!
I here what your saying…however after ownership of a beautiful 1966 Series IIa for 28 years I am now looking forward to taking ownership of a Fieldmaster soon! Retirement sees long trips with a bit more comfort and safety, love the ‘old school’ design in this modern capable adventure vehicle. Enjoy your Defender…while you can😉.
@@MathisMotionPictures I got rid of my 2007 Defender 90 Td5 which l bought brand new, due to terminal chassis corrosion in 2020 with the intention of getting the new Defender 90 Commercial when it came out, but at the moment there seems to be problems with them so l looked at the Ineos to be told 4 doors only which is too big for my needs so at the moment l will have to carry on using my new model Suzuki Jimny which whilst it is more refined than my old Defender the car is very cheaply made and rusting very badly after only 3 years!!
What you have to remember is… this vehicle was not built to replace the OG Defender 110…. It was built out of protest in regards to the new Defender. It was out his love of the OG Defender that this was spawned… this was never made to replace it…also…. Maybe a better INEOS VS DEFENDER video would be putting this up to a 2016 Defender lol. Great video all the same… cheers mate
I like your video, it is the first proper comparison between Land Rover Defender and the Ineos Grenadier. I like your cheek to make use of the car and the facilities and then to say that you definitely wont buy one, it is hilarious.
I agree with you, I just can't part with my defender. I have mine since new (Tdci 2.2) and love it. The Grenadier is great but here in Australia it will cost approximately $130,000, way too expensive.
I loved the way you tested and compared the Grenadier to the old Defender 110. I bought my first L88 (Defender 90) in 1972 in Colorado Springs, CO, USA. It was noisy, and it had an under-powered 4 inline-cylinder engine, 3 seats in front, and 2 side benches in the rear good for 6 people. I was always outdone by my friend's Toyota. I bought a new 1999 Discovery II and I loved it, it was heavy, quiet, great stereo with a subwoofer, but it had several mechanical problems. I drove it for 260.000 Km. Then I bought a 2009 RR Sport and drove it for 100.000 Km. (62K miles) Now I have a 2016 Discovery 4 (LR4) HSE Luxury, it has everything! 16 speaker stereo, air suspension, all leather 7 seats, 3 sunroofs... It has now 132.000 KM. (82K miles) I am using your personal impression of your test drive to get a mental picture of your experience with the Grenadier. I was not able to drive one yet here in Florida, USA. I follow the LR Time show on RUclips because I do most of the service and repairs on my LR4. Thank you! I don't know the Grenadier's price yet!
What a lovely review. Oddly, perhaps, I really believe this machine will do much better in international territories than here in the UK. There are some design errors that urgently need correcting, which have put off a lot of people who might otherwise have bought it in the UK - especially the steering and the right hand drive ergonomics, but it is a proper successor to the real Defender. Who knows: once INEOS listen and fix all the poor design choices, maybe it will become popular in its "home" country. I say "home" country because it's built in France using (excellent) German and Italian parts, tech, and engine!
I did exactly this - I sold my Defender 300TDi and bought a Grenadier in June last year. After a lot of trouble with the Grenadier and zero help from Ineos Technical and the dealer, I rejected the Grenadier back to Ineos. As an offering, the Grenadier is not yet ready for market. So now I drive a new Defender 90 hard top - and it is a brilliant vehicle.
Having sat in a Grenadier yesterday, I have to say that it is incredibly well built. Far better than any old or modern day landrover TBH. If I had £70k now I would be ordering a Grenadier 100%.
Know the feeling. In the end I find the Jeep Wrangler to be the only true successor to an old Defender, it's the only 4x4 that evolved yet kept its true values. The Grenadier looks nice and I respect what they try to do but lack of support for parts, unproven reliability keep me away from it
Your video is well done and shows the obvious differences clearly - well done . I think there is something to be said for the simplicity of the Defender - i have had 2 x 300TDI Defenders - but they are flawed - all the things you talk about - but in this world there are intangibles ( unknown stuff ) and the Defender still remains much admired - Jim Radcliff and many people , engineers etc have spent enormous effort fixing some of those problems - the Grenadier stops and in a collision your life will be much better protected . Offroad rollovers in a Defender are very dangerous and basic things like having to swerve for an animal or something in a Defender is certainly compromised . I think the Grenadier will prove itself a worthy transition from the Defender even with some of its compromises - it will sell well as there are simply are not many competitors - even the 70 series Toyota's are flawed out of the box at enormous prices - i think many people will use the Grenadier offroad - the question is have they got the reliability right and only time will tell - i have ordered one
As a Defender lover and owner of 4 series Ills the Grenadier should appeal to a 'softer' audience that knows nothing about cars! Of course the old Defender is outclassed in many ways if you assess it using modern methodology, however, we love them! Why? Because they have character, flaws, and have a no nonsense, throw anything at them attitude. They are fun, they slow you down, and they become part of the furniture! No other car I have owned has done this. Great commentary, thank you!
I’m not convinced about the Grenadier or it’s high price. If you want to go properly off road would you buy a brand new £80K car? And if you want to drive on road, or just dirt tracks and have adventures would you not buy a more comfortable SUV with full worldwide dealer network? But I do understand some people like the Grenadier’s looks and enjoy driving something different from the norm; the new Defender seems to be selling like hot cakes and they’re everywhere so getting to be a bit of a common sight.
first i thought the defender will devaluate with the arrival of the grenadier, but i guess it only proves that no one will be able to build such a simple car anymore these days with all the regulations...
100% agree with you that the new Defender is a Discovery. My Dad had a 1993 Disco diesel as a work vehicle and the new Defender is more like that than either a modern Discovery or the old Defender.
Well… The Grenadier is a very capable English car, no doubt … Engine from BMW… Transmission from ZF Austria… Made in France 🇫🇷 in a old Mercedes Benz Factory … So of course it’s a ENGLISH car 😂 (Just poking fun) … Anyway … I drive a TD5 HT …and it’s a great car … I have a tree slider, side step installed … because I’m not a tall guy myself… and my wife is even shorter then me…😜 Greetings from Germany everybody 👋 … Grüezi … my only complaint for MY Defender is… I have so little space in the footwell… when on long trips… I cannot rest my left food anywhere…😝
I think the Ineos is the best Defender it is possible to make today. The laws and regulations have moved on so much, the classic Defender is like the cowboy was: something that could only exist at a very specific point in history.
Land Rover just didn't want to do the work, and they saw better profit margin in the Disco and Rangy. They also dumped the military market. But you could sell an original Landy in the US the same as you could sell the FJ70. The cheapest NAS 90 I can find is $72,000 for a '94 and the most expensive is $195,000 for a refurbished '94. I didn't look all that hard, but I did use a site that covers the whole of the US. The demand is there. I wouldn't want a Prado, which is called a Land Cruiser in the US for marketing, but I'd buy an FJ70 tomorrow, but they don't bring them here. The issues the NAS 90 had could be fixed, their biggest issue was safety, but a good designer could have fixed that without changing them a lot, just look at the Grenadier. Reliability issues, which Land Rover still has, require a change of cultural attitude to longevity and the care with which they are built. Again that requires investment. Take a 2016 90/110 and put something like the current GM 2.7 turbo with a Getrag 238 manual transmission, which will last the life of the vehicle, Dana 60 axles, with something like Select-A-Lock differential on the back and Torsen on the front. Give it the galvanized chassis the aftermarket has been selling for 40 years, and don't get carried away with the creature comforts.
Nice motor, I used to drive passengers on tour from London to Madrs and I found no fault in the performance of the Defender and for the most part I used to keep two hands on the steering wheel where possible. Only got through 13 minutes of the post and gave up, too nervous about the careless one-hand driving. Perhaps nowadays people are taught to drive that way but I just can't get used to it. i
Buy the Grenadier but keep your old Land Rover in storage for a while. Then, if you decide you'd rather have the old one you can sell the Grenadier (likely for a nice margin) and use the money to do some work on your old 110.
It’s all about the driving you do. In Europe it’s generally very limited 4wd driving whereas in Africa, NEW Zealand and Australia there’s lots more 4wd just by virtue of the environment and geography. So we can expect more sales there, in proportion to market size, than Europe. The first release of a new car brand/model is always problematic in terms of fit out etc. we can expect Ineos will grow/improve the offering with each release. Compare the first model Land Rover to the last. It’s arguably more efficient to drive the Land Rover in this clip to death as it’s not cost effective to replace it
Had landrovers for 38 years...got a 2000 td5 110, Completely agree with you mate. If im in the shit, i want my landy!, even if its just to sleep in the back.
It's my 5th Defender, now owning a Td4 Puma 110 2015, it's definitely a step up from the old Td5's. Was in Dielsdorf too and talked to Lukas D but still waiting for a test drive, like you said they are waiting for a software update. I am more and more hesitant to let my Landy go and probably won't do it until the Grenadier is well proven maybe in 2 years time......if ever, in the meantime I am improving my Landy constantly with modern parts......nice video, cheers Thomas
Do it now, I'm POSITIVE you'll be happy. It'll be your Defender, only with more comforts. Not the ridiculous Discovery 6 the Land Rover now calls a Defender 2023!
Greta 😂 Thanks for your video, you certainly highlighted some issues with the grenadier that I will definitely be on the lookout for. I ordered mine last May and I'm still waiting for it.
Grenadier is cool too! The problem is the delivery delay (parts come from China). The Chinese are blocking because they are collaborating with the Russians??? We'll never find out... Also, the Greens (from Germany) want to introduce stricter emission regulations and are in the EU. (I don't like this party!)... They're trying hard to sell electric cars... weirdly, these cars are all available there. Nobody wants that electric car shit! Greeting from Germany. My heart beats Landy :)
@@vincentnastri7736don’t be silly. You can’t see into the future and the old Land Rover has proven itself over many many decades that it lasts! I know the haters don’t like to hear it but it’s true, they keep on going! Granted the later defenders (pumas) aren’t the same but they will still last.. we have 3 defenders we use for pulling ships mooring ropes and wires and they have a combined age of 56 years and they still give great service despite working in a marine environment… they get washed and have been treated with paint of course. The new grenadier looks a decent truck in all honesty but will it become another legend… well I guess we will have to wait and see won’t we! I did hear it has a BMW diesel so that’s a good start!!! Lol
Only reason defenders are still on the road is because of the amount of aftermarket parts available, and stupid owners keep pouring money into them..!!! My sibling owns and operates two franchises of JLR products in the state and I’ve got a friend who owns a LandRover specialist workshop in Bridgwater UK (not Connecticut US) he’s overrun with work rebuilding them.!
@@Incountry see this is where people like you who really don’t know anything about Land rovers and put some great claims out there’s fall down with the comments! You have different markets like you would in all vehicles… the garage I think you mentioned in the UK I know as I don’t live that far south of it and I’ve even spoken with the owner I think! The reason many garages like this have done so well is they specialise in owners who want to have the trucks they drive better than the next man! People spend thousands on things they don’t need but it looks or sounds better than the guy they pull up to at the lights! What I’m talking about is a Land Rover being used as a Land Rover and I can put my hand on my heart and say that all our trucks we use are still operating with the same axles, engine and gearbox’s and the biggest job which was done on the 2000s was a rear cross member! As for after market parts lol. Obviously all vehicles need parts to keep them going but this is where the difference is between land rovers and the average car… after 15 years it’s pointless putting anymore aftermarket parts on a car or inferior truck to the Land Rover as it’s not worth it anymore and it’s off to the scrapyard! With the Land Rover it’s different as they still keep plodding on and are worth something of value… big difference! Tell that Land Rover friend of yours next time I’m at Dunball wharf I’ll pop in and grab a part or maybe I’ll get him to do a full rebuild because I want a different paint colour or a fancy V8 engine being fitted… nothing wrong with the original tdi but just want to give him my hard earned so it sounds better!!!
@@PillSharks Sure, I don’t know anything about them… People don’t make them better they’re always “repairing” them, it’s not improving because you cannot improve on garbage, as I asked my sibling “why JLR franchise?” reply was they make huge money in “warranty returns” and even more from out of warranty as most workshops don’t want the involvement, and the UK workshop I’m familiar with the owner stated to me “if it weren’t for Landrover repairs” he’d be broke and still be a college lecturer teaching automotive, I know the safety inspector guy which you call an MOT Tester who’s works there (ex-military) and even he states the same, “they’re junk”. You cannot improve on junk, they’ve used Rover Group, BMW and FORD/PSA (Peugeot) made powertrains and now returned back to BMW for the gasoline blocks, chassis’s corrode like crazy, they leak like a Exxon Valdez (albeit lubricating the chassis same time) you’ll die horrifically in a collision anything above 30mph, electrics are atrocious if and when they work, so don’t give me “People like you don’t know anything”, it was me and the guys pulling out your shit* jackals from Afghanistan and Iraq by our superior but also shit*Humvees and that’s saying a lot..
Ineos wins all the way, your opinion is biased to your car (Defender), while " Ineos" is mixture of traditional 4x4 and modern functions, which is totally accepted compare to what is new " Defender" looks like.
The romance of old 4x4 is all well and good until you need to drive them for 10 hours a day. I own a 70 series Landcruiser, which is similar to a Defender or LR series in terms of the vehicle being raw and pure. Although I appreciate how simple the vehicle is, it's tiring to drive on long trips and I think that a vehicle like the Grenadier would be a good upgrade.
It's give and take them old trucks can service yourself and repair at side of road if needed don't think can say that about all this high tech stuff which need very expensive diagnostic and special tools
I praise Jim Radcliff for making what should have been the new Defender. I own a camper-converted 2014 2.2 Defender (my only car), and for me personally I see no advantage in buying a Grenadier.
I would never trade my good old (reliable and rust free) Landy for any other vehicle, not even for an Unimog. Yes, the Grenadier is the true 'New Defender' and I would prefer it to any other of the all-boring-same-looking 4WD today if tragedy would struck my 'Old Defender'. I already fell in love with those great looking somehow unique vehicles when I was a little boy and it was at this time already when I made my decision to buy one when I grow up. Why do people like old vehicles? It is not about comfort or performance, they give you that special feeling which is too hard to describe in a few words. The body is from the sixties and you drive (and 'work') like in the seventies. If two classic Landies pass each other, the owners always greet each other and you never know if that smiling person behind the wheel is a farmer or HRH King Charles himself. Slow? That's ok because I enjoy the drive so much that I am almost never in a hurry. Loud? Isn't that sound of the Diesel engine great? (Btw, this makes it much easier for you to match the revs in case your clutch stops working - with mechanical sensitivity you'll get home without a clutch) And there are many more great things about owning such a unique vehicle. Regards, MM
had a County 110 V8 for several years. Gas guzzler, and quirky, floated at speed, but don't remember it being stiff suspension at all. Paint faded, but bed in the back for the Ex worked well.
Vielen Dank Mathis! Ehrlich direkt! Ich fahre mittlerweile seit über 15 Jahren verschiedene Land Rover Range Rover... Mein erster war ein P38 4.0 und nachher ein L322 4.4 beide Benziner und schon überarbeitet und entwickelt von BMW. Der Defender war für mich nie eine Option, ich bin 195 cm gross und auch mit den obligatorischen verlängerten Sitzschienen ist es für mich unmöglich eine komfortable Sitzposition zu finden. Ich fahre jetzt seit 8 Jahren einen 2008er RR L322 3.6TDV8, Verbrauch, Komfort, Sicherheit und die absolute Offroad capability sind meiner Meinung nach immer noch ungeschlagen. Ich lebe in Zentral-Serbien, einem Land, wo der Begriff "Strasse" nach einem heftigen Regen eine völlig neue Bedeutung bekommen kann..😉 Mein Range hat sich in Marokko oder in Rumänien schon viele Lacher anhören müssen, aber er hat mich noch nie enttäuscht. Klar die Elektronik muss man wie einen älteren PC behandeln, wenn er sich mal aufhängt gibts nur eins, den totalen Shutdown. Danach ein bisschen tätscheln und der ältere Herr Rover ist wieder voll da. Das Luftfahrwerk hat mich in keinem meiner drei Rangies im Stich gelassen (abgesehen v. einem kleinen Eigenbau im P38, war aber präventiv und für die Höherlegung). Wieso soll ich mir einen Ineos antun, noch dazu für diesen Preis? Und wenn ich die straffe Lenkung im Rangierbereich sehe, dann fällt mir nur der X3 meiner Mutter ein, genau das gleiche aus dem BMW Regal. Furchtbar beim Parkieren. Nein danke. Das haben sich die LR Leute nie nehmen lassen, als damals BMW übernahm... Die Offroadqualitäten der Marke dürfen auf keinen Fall eingebüsst werden. (Tata ist wieder eine andere Story) Ich fahre mit meinem Range durch die Wälder Serbiens und danach kann ich direkt mit 150 auf der Autobahn in Dolby Surround in absolutem Luxus und mit relaxter Vorfreude zum Opernabend in Belgrad fahren. Kilometerstand 358'000, Verbrauch im Schnitt 11l. Kaufpreis 2014: 12'900CHF mit 187'000km. Öl/Filterwechsel alle 10'000, keine Kompromisse. Reifen General AT3 255/55/20 AS. Danke nochmals für deine ehrliche Art, neuer Subscriber! Gruss in die Heimat🇨🇭 aus Kragujevac🇷🇸
Corrosion and oil leaks will shuffle the defenders grave in Switzerland particularly! Nothing compares to Landrover defender never has and never will, very true! But despite all that I strongly believe the Grenadier to evolve eventually into a defender replacement! Just wait until the first stripped down army version appears!
About 15ys back my work bought a couple of Defender 110 diesels for their towing capacity. I had the opportunity to do many long trips in them, sometimes towing heavy boats, sometimes offroad in genuinely difficult conditions. They certainly looked the business but after driving them I realised what poorly designed, badly built gutless pieces of crap they were. They also kept breaking down. The inattention to detail was incredible. The drivers seat did not point forward. Ergonomics? None. Even the steering wheel was uncomfortable. It was noisy and breezy with huge uneven panel gaps. The 2.5 turbo diesel was gutless. One changed speed by changing gear. It was the most disappointing car Ive ever driven. I wanted to be impressed. I wasnt. We also ran Land Cruisers and they were better in every way. This is why Landrover in Australia went from 90% of the 4wd market to being niche poser vehicles for city folk who never leave the tarmac or stray to far from the dealer for the inevitable repairs. Ive no experience of the Grenadier or any JLR product since so have no comment of the Grenadier/new Discovery debate other than both would have to be bloody brilliant to beat the Landcruiser. I see no evidence of that.
Great comparison, comparing specific details. It is sad that the Land Rover management do not understand their customer base. The new Defender is 'just another SUV', whereas the old one was all about ruggedness, simplicity and functionality, a car that could be repaired in any back street garage in the world and didn't have much that could go wrong. The Grenadier was an opportunity to do what Land Rover should have done - update the Defender to deal with all its drawbacks but still keep it simple, and cheap. By doing this Ineos could have attracted a huge following from Defender owners but instead they have produced something that looks rather like a Defender and is very capable but is actually a complicated and expensive niche market vehicle.
The windscreen wash without a wipe is a good idea. It's so you don't get a smeared screen if you're washers are frozen or blocked with mud. It's not a fault. I'll take BMW running gear over JLR / old Rover stuff any day. The old TD5 was a pos, the TDi was waaaay under powered and unreliable (but easy to fix) and the 2.2 / 2.4 were Ford engines with all the compromises that that implies. Poor gearboxes, poor diffs and weak half shafts. BTW, I have a series 11 88', an early 90 V8, a TDi 90 and a 2.2 110 crew cab so I'm not a hater, I'm just not a blinkered fanboy.
You're ending statement says it all....Defender is cold, difficult to drive, not reliable...etc. This is a much more modern version and definitely worthy of the traditional Defender, yet improved. I will drive mine well over 20 years as I do my 21 yr old Land Rover and enjoy its unique characteristics.
My 27 year old is easy to drive, warm and extremely reliable. I have modern vehicles to compare it to but for 99% of trips, I take the 1997 Defender and cover 300 miles/500km every week.
I totally get the emotional attachment folks have with the Defender. It’s an icon that has a lot of character. But when commenting about this being heavy and that being heavy or the doors being dull, the thing is built like a tank but delivers an excellent ride that will be appreciated BIG TIME over the length of a long overland trip for sure. It’s also a bit bigger. Can’t wait to get mine. 👍🏻😎👍🏻
Thx Mathis, this is for sure a very hones video, I have been waiting for this kind of test. As much as I desire all the modernity of the Grenadier, I will for sure also never part with my 110 TD4 from 2008. To be fair I must say many of the things you outlined are a bit more comfy in the TD4, but overall the Defender-Feeling is the same. And I also doubt that in 20 years any Grenadier will still be on the road, but probably most of the Defenders will still be, as long as we get some Diesel to buy :D
Nice comparison video. I full agree on your conclusions. By the way where are the forest roads you are driving with the Landrover? Woudl like to experience that as well. Cheers from Urdorf (ZH).
Thank you for this video, I am also a defender addict, from 300tdi, td5 and even the 2,4 puma though not my favorite, what stroke me whilst test driving the grenadier was the all digital feel from gear box to lcd screen without any sort of analog manometer in front of you which I find really disturbing… Then comes the BMW 3l engine which seems impossible to put your hands into if you want to work on it. The whole purpose of the defender is that you can do most of the jobs yourself and spare parts are extremely easy to find and in most cases cheap.
A slight skew in the comparison really. My 2014 defender 110 double cab has electric windows,heated leather seats,traction control,ABS,Heated windscreen,Aircon and an intercooler upgrade,it travels quietly on the road and monsters the work i do offroad.
There are some great features on the Grenadier for sure. However, other than design and some luggage carrying functionality on the exterior, I still don't think it has enough of a 'wow factor' that I would consider this over the new Defender. Despite having a solid rear axle. I grew up with the old Defender at a time when it was simply known as Land Rover and in all honesty, nothing will ever replace the old Defender. That said, the old Defender had become old fashioned, compromised on comfort and safety. It also wasn't selling in enough numbers for it to continue and I think that this might be the same fate that may lead to the Grenadier having a very short span in the market place. Regrettably but realistically, we need the 'Chelsea tractor and school run brigade' to buy them so that they remain on sale. I am not confident that the Grenadier will appeal to the Chelsea tractor and school run markets.
The "wow factor" of the Grenadier is that it is being made, the classic Defender is not. (I own a 2020 Defender, great at many things but it is not a "Defender"). I also have an '86 110 that I rarely drive because of all of its "charm" takes a lot of energy. The Grenadier is what the New Defender should have been. Quite capable and modern enough to be practical.
Looks like the grenadier is a good vehicle, but it is still crawling still gonna go threw teething stages to get better in years to come like any car manufacturer hope the best for them , BUT if you own a I CON like a 110 defender old school you just won't part with it, mine didn't grow on me it crew in me ,I have a 1986 V8 just ❤️ it😁😁 nice video 👍
Great comparison. INEOS appears to have addressed the main problems with the classic Defender. I hope they sell well. On the other hand, my 1995 Defender TD300 seems intent on lasting forever. You set it as you prefer, and there you are. No reason to change.
I had a '95 300TDi 90. Loved it but it fell apart. Transmission problems, rear 1/4 chassis, needed a new bulkhead, engine consumed water and smoked in equal quantities. Sold it, and expecting delivery of my Ineos by the end of this month.
Even Land Rover couldn't sell the old Defender it had very limited appeal to a very small market of new car buyers, They are in the business of moving new metal it's that simple.
The Grenadier is a fake Landrover that will give owners lots of problems in the years to come, Mainly because while it may look like a defender it has too many electronic things that will go wrong and thats guaranteed to happen, I can vouch for that myself, Simplicity is what made the Landy a reliable legend
I'll take a new Grenadier over a 20-year-old defender any day of the week.... and I am. It is for intense and purpose, a modern defender, and would be if Landrover was still british owned and wanted to build an actual new one. Decent vid though. 👌
To be honest all new cars are a computer on wheels .And I don't like it .if my old 4x4 breaks down I can fix it at side of road try that on this new stuff usually need a tow truck and a pocket full of cash
I was a proud owner of a LR - 90 TD5 (2001). My dad has a LR 300Tdi - since 1996 no issues (except rust). I've sold my LR to get a bigger "working/traveling" horse, so early 2021 i set my pre-order for the Grenadier. BUT after joining a couple presentation/ and some testdrives for myself in Germany and Austria - i have withdrawn my order. We tested the Grenadier in really harsh and hard offroad conditions, and holy shit the car is AWESOME ... BUT biggest issues during my/our testdrives !! ---- I AM NOT prejudging and I KNOW !! IT WAS A TESTVEHICLE !! ---- !! - in steep declines the motor often stopped. In one occasion the motor stopped -> the wheels blocked (maybe the system thought its "parking") -> we started slipping downhills. - dirty sensors messed up the whole system -> the Ineos mechanics had to pull the sensor-plugs so we could continue our driving. That was only possible, because it was a test vehicle. It wont be that easy/possible in the "sales" cars! - i don't care about horsepower, i need the raw strength so i prefer diesel -> Europe mandatory ... AdBlue. I talked to the mechanics - yes its possible to "turn" it off, but you have to shortcut the system -> loss of warranty. If you don't refill AdBlue, the power will be cut in half and after some warnings you can start the car 3 times ... after that ... the car is done and has to be towed. - i had the same issues with the windshield wipers. - kind of similar problems with the starting. Crossing karpatian alps in my old LR -> i've loosened up the seat-belt - opened the door - hopped out of the car -> checked the obstacle -> hopped into the car -> drove over/around the obstacle - NO seat-belt on (yes i know ... blablabla safety issue). That was NOT possible in the Grenadier! Door isn't proper closed -> you cant start the car at all. During the testdrive with the Grenadier, low gear crawling mode, I've opened the door to check the distance between the rockslider and an boulder. The car just stopped ... literally it stopped ... and i was like ... "Whaattt ?". We had to close all doors, seat-belts, windows to restart the "system". And if you don't have your seat-belt on, the system goes nuts. - after a long talk with the mechanics ... NO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to turn of 100% of the "electronic-assistance-goodies". - holy shit the "beeps" Yes, sure ... we live in the 21st century, climate issues, safety standards, ... and aside from that ... Europe as a lot of regulations and laws ... so its not easy to design/produce a solid workhorse/off-roader. Compared to LC, LR, G-Wagon and Jeep JK ... the Grenadier is one of the BEST off-road vehicles I've ever driven ! The obstacles we takkeld with the Grenadier, holllllyyy ... shit! Its going to be one, if not the best off-roader vehicles out there, but they have to sort the electronic issues and "rethink" some off the assistance-goodies. For example ... I want to start my car, how i want ... when i want (doors opened, closed, seat-belted ... what ever). - if the motor stops, the sensor/e-features MUST NOT block the wheels! - adjustable beeping (on/off) - adjustable sensors (on/off) -> sensors dirty -> give me the infomassage "sensors dirty" but you must not hardcore interfere into the cars driving capabilities. so let me turn them off
Your defender looks great even though it's not perfect. It's amazing how much these old defenders sell for today. For me I actually like the new defender I think they did a good modern take on the defender.
This man‘s explanation summarizes what’s wrong with those who dislike the new Defender: they like to suffer. So they can’t buy a new defender because that would be too comfortable.
I know how you feel...they are and always will be great. In my world l love the old Jeep Cherokee 1995-2000 diesel or petrol both good . Not perfect by far...but so functional...and reasonably comfortable. They do it all..safe reasonably easy to work on and the petrol emissions are well within limits 👍 So new is not always best. Good video
I understand you like your Defender because it's a bit like a big toy to feel all the basic mechanics of an old fashioned car. To most of those who bought Defenders new when they were built, however, that was not the point: they wanted to go from A to B on rough terrain and carry themselves and their stuff. Not much philosophy about adventurous feeling there. As soon as Toyota built tough and durable off-roaders, for example most Australian customers switched brands - and LR fought to meet increased safety and environmental standards with the ancient design. I think the new Defender is good at what it's supposed to do, as is the Grenadier. If you want a charming but noisy, leaking and rusting toy for 20.000 €, you won't get it from those new models.
You can fix all these "faults" in your Defender. The clutch can be made lighter with a little spring kit for around £20, the ride can be made better by fitting Puma springs and dampers, and a bit of carefully applied soundproofing will reduce the noise at 60mph by 10db, which is a lot. l know this because l did all these things to my 110 TD5. As for leaks, l cured most of them! And if you overhaul the heater you'll find it can be surprisingly good. Not like a Grenadier heater of course, but certainly good enough
If you need noice cancelling headphones when driving Land Rover Defender,you maybe should convert to a Tesla:) I have been driving Landie 109/Defender for 30 years and I love the sound of it everyday:)
I admire the Grenadier, had the money down, but canceled as we had other priorities. I own a Defender 110 2.2 (2013). I can tell you I will never sell the Defender. I am too attached and have spend plenty of money on upgrading with heavy duty parts, full sound proofing etc etc. The Defender has more (easier) loading space for my use. We will most likely buy a Grenadier in the near future, but it will be mostly my wifes car as she likes to have an automatic.I admire Jim Ratcliffe for having started this. I agree with Mathis and many other Defender owners, it might have plenty of short comings compared to modern cars, but the fact that around 70% of all manufactured Defenders are still registered says something about the car. But to each their own. I hope the Grenadier becomes a success.
If, as some have said, the old Defender was struggling to sell, It made sense for JLR to update the concept. Farmers buy pickups these days to ferry straw and sheep. At a starting price of £79k it’s more expensive than a new Defender and way more expensive than a Landcruiser. It’s more G-Wagen than Landy given the amount of German parts in it ;-)
"I would consider gluing myself to its engine in protest" -> That's the most amazing quote I've head in a while, LOL! Love it! I don't blame you for not "upgrading", there's something special about old iron. Great video, I haven't seen anyone else push a Grenadier on the road yet as much as you did. Looking forward to more videos!
😂 thanx!
I here what your saying…however after ownership of a beautiful 1966 Series IIa for 28 years I am now looking forward to taking ownership of a Fieldmaster soon! Retirement sees long trips with a bit more comfort and safety, love the ‘old school’ design in this modern capable adventure vehicle.
Enjoy your Defender…while you can😉.
best to have both!
@@MathisMotionPictures I got rid of my 2007 Defender 90 Td5 which l bought brand new, due to terminal chassis corrosion in 2020 with the intention of getting the new Defender 90 Commercial when it came out, but at the moment there seems to be problems with them so l looked at the Ineos to be told 4 doors only which is too big for my needs so at the moment l will have to carry on using my new model Suzuki Jimny which whilst it is more refined than my old Defender the car is very cheaply made and rusting very badly after only 3 years!!
@@clooperman3745 not a lot of alternatives out there now a days...
What you have to remember is… this vehicle was not built to replace the OG Defender 110…. It was built out of protest in regards to the new Defender. It was out his love of the OG Defender that this was spawned… this was never made to replace it…also…. Maybe a better INEOS VS DEFENDER video would be putting this up to a 2016 Defender lol. Great video all the same… cheers mate
I like your video, it is the first proper comparison between Land Rover Defender and the Ineos Grenadier. I like your cheek to make use of the car and the facilities and then to say that you definitely wont buy one, it is hilarious.
That was nice ... watched it till the end ! Driving a Series III 1974. It's an every day adventure and fits me well!
I agree with you, I just can't part with my defender. I have mine since new (Tdci 2.2) and love it.
The Grenadier is great but here in Australia it will cost approximately $130,000, way too expensive.
You are being generous $130,000 will be a very short and basic spec....I want to replace a Wrangler unlimited Rubicon....So way more than than.
Criminal isn’t it, at that price I’d be looking at a low kay 200 and a GVM GCM upgrade.
Imagine getting parts 1,000 klm's west of Sydney.?
Marvelous side by side with the classic! Thanks!!
The Ineos looks like someone tried to draw a Defender from memory
😅
Very true 😆😆😆
@@barnbuilds7833 🤣
I loved the way you tested and compared the Grenadier to the old Defender 110. I bought my first L88 (Defender 90) in 1972 in Colorado Springs, CO, USA. It was noisy, and it had an under-powered 4 inline-cylinder engine, 3 seats in front, and 2 side benches in the rear good for 6 people. I was always outdone by my friend's Toyota. I bought a new 1999 Discovery II and I loved it, it was heavy, quiet, great stereo with a subwoofer, but it had several mechanical problems. I drove it for 260.000 Km. Then I bought a 2009 RR Sport and drove it for 100.000 Km. (62K miles) Now I have a 2016 Discovery 4 (LR4) HSE Luxury, it has everything! 16 speaker stereo, air suspension, all leather 7 seats, 3 sunroofs... It has now 132.000 KM. (82K miles) I am using your personal impression of your test drive to get a mental picture of your experience with the Grenadier. I was not able to drive one yet here in Florida, USA. I follow the LR Time show on RUclips because I do most of the service and repairs on my LR4. Thank you! I don't know the Grenadier's price yet!
There is only one original and I have it with my 100 td5. It will give me pleasure for many years to come.
Thank you for your comparison. Never seen the direct differences. Each has its own unique characteristics.
What a wonderful, detailed inspection of the Grenadier. Thank you. The best walk around.
What a lovely review. Oddly, perhaps, I really believe this machine will do much better in international territories than here in the UK. There are some design errors that urgently need correcting, which have put off a lot of people who might otherwise have bought it in the UK - especially the steering and the right hand drive ergonomics, but it is a proper successor to the real Defender.
Who knows: once INEOS listen and fix all the poor design choices, maybe it will become popular in its "home" country. I say "home" country because it's built in France using (excellent) German and Italian parts, tech, and engine!
I did exactly this - I sold my Defender 300TDi and bought a Grenadier in June last year. After a lot of trouble with the Grenadier and zero help from Ineos Technical and the dealer, I rejected the Grenadier back to Ineos. As an offering, the Grenadier is not yet ready for market. So now I drive a new Defender 90 hard top - and it is a brilliant vehicle.
Having sat in a Grenadier yesterday, I have to say that it is incredibly well built. Far better than any old or modern day landrover TBH. If I had £70k now I would be ordering a Grenadier 100%.
I regret not bying a defender before it run out of production, What a beautiful simple car it was and what an investment now a days…..
Know the feeling. In the end I find the Jeep Wrangler to be the only true successor to an old Defender, it's the only 4x4 that evolved yet kept its true values. The Grenadier looks nice and I respect what they try to do but lack of support for parts, unproven reliability keep me away from it
Your video is well done and shows the obvious differences clearly - well done . I think there is something to be said for the simplicity of the Defender - i have had 2 x 300TDI Defenders - but they are flawed - all the things you talk about - but in this world there are intangibles ( unknown stuff ) and the Defender still remains much admired - Jim Radcliff and many people , engineers etc have spent enormous effort fixing some of those problems - the Grenadier stops and in a collision your life will be much better protected . Offroad rollovers in a Defender are very dangerous and basic things like having to swerve for an animal or something in a Defender is certainly compromised . I think the Grenadier will prove itself a worthy transition from the Defender even with some of its compromises - it will sell well as there are simply are not many competitors - even the 70 series Toyota's are flawed out of the box at enormous prices - i think many people will use the Grenadier offroad - the question is have they got the reliability right and only time will tell - i have ordered one
Very well said.. Can't wait to get my Trialmaster in July
Yes reliability is key!
of course, you are right!
yep don't swerve in a 110 if you want to live...😢
As a Defender lover and owner of 4 series Ills the Grenadier should appeal to a 'softer' audience that knows nothing about cars! Of course the old Defender is outclassed in many ways if you assess it using modern methodology, however, we love them! Why? Because they have character, flaws, and have a no nonsense, throw anything at them attitude. They are fun, they slow you down, and they become part of the furniture! No other car I have owned has done this.
Great commentary, thank you!
Guter, bodenständiger Beitrag. Vielen Dank. Und ich liebe den Gretha-Seitenhieb zum Schluss 👍🏼😃
😂
Das Beste zum Schluss! 👍😁😉
I’m not convinced about the Grenadier or it’s high price. If you want to go properly off road would you buy a brand new £80K car? And if you want to drive on road, or just dirt tracks and have adventures would you not buy a more comfortable SUV with full worldwide dealer network? But I do understand some people like the Grenadier’s looks and enjoy driving something different from the norm; the new Defender seems to be selling like hot cakes and they’re everywhere so getting to be a bit of a common sight.
Thank you so much for helping confirm the need to acquire another authentic Defender.
first i thought the defender will devaluate with the arrival of the grenadier, but i guess it only proves that no one will be able to build such a simple car anymore these days with all the regulations...
100% agree with you that the new Defender is a Discovery. My Dad had a 1993 Disco diesel as a work vehicle and the new Defender is more like that than either a modern Discovery or the old Defender.
The Discovery was always supposed to be the Defenders successor.
Well…
The Grenadier is a very capable English car, no doubt …
Engine from BMW…
Transmission from ZF Austria…
Made in France 🇫🇷 in a old Mercedes Benz Factory …
So of course it’s a ENGLISH car 😂
(Just poking fun)
…
Anyway …
I drive a TD5 HT …and it’s a great car …
I have a tree slider, side step installed … because I’m not a tall guy myself… and my wife is even shorter then me…😜
Greetings from Germany everybody 👋
…
Grüezi … my only complaint for MY Defender is… I have so little space in the footwell… when on long trips… I cannot rest my left food anywhere…😝
I think the Ineos is the best Defender it is possible to make today. The laws and regulations have moved on so much, the classic Defender is like the cowboy was: something that could only exist at a very specific point in history.
Anachronistic?
70 series landcruiser and jeep still here
Land Rover just didn't want to do the work, and they saw better profit margin in the Disco and Rangy. They also dumped the military market. But you could sell an original Landy in the US the same as you could sell the FJ70. The cheapest NAS 90 I can find is $72,000 for a '94 and the most expensive is $195,000 for a refurbished '94. I didn't look all that hard, but I did use a site that covers the whole of the US. The demand is there. I wouldn't want a Prado, which is called a Land Cruiser in the US for marketing, but I'd buy an FJ70 tomorrow, but they don't bring them here. The issues the NAS 90 had could be fixed, their biggest issue was safety, but a good designer could have fixed that without changing them a lot, just look at the Grenadier. Reliability issues, which Land Rover still has, require a change of cultural attitude to longevity and the care with which they are built. Again that requires investment. Take a 2016 90/110 and put something like the current GM 2.7 turbo with a Getrag 238 manual transmission, which will last the life of the vehicle, Dana 60 axles, with something like Select-A-Lock differential on the back and Torsen on the front. Give it the galvanized chassis the aftermarket has been selling for 40 years, and don't get carried away with the creature comforts.
Nice motor, I used to drive passengers on tour from London to Madrs and I found no fault in the performance of the Defender and for the most part I used to keep two hands on the steering wheel where possible. Only got through 13 minutes of the post and gave up, too nervous about the careless one-hand driving. Perhaps nowadays people are taught to drive that way but I just can't get used to it.
i
Buy the Grenadier but keep your old Land Rover in storage for a while.
Then, if you decide you'd rather have the old one you can sell the Grenadier (likely for a nice margin) and use the money to do some work on your old 110.
Super video and nice to hear your opinions. Thank you for making it.
It’s all about the driving you do. In Europe it’s generally very limited 4wd driving whereas in Africa, NEW Zealand and Australia there’s lots more 4wd just by virtue of the environment and geography. So we can expect more sales there, in proportion to market size, than Europe. The first release of a new car brand/model is always problematic in terms of fit out etc. we can expect Ineos will grow/improve the offering with each release. Compare the first model Land Rover to the last. It’s arguably more efficient to drive the Land Rover in this clip to death as it’s not cost effective to replace it
Had landrovers for 38 years...got a 2000 td5 110,
Completely agree with you mate.
If im in the shit, i want my landy!, even if its just to sleep in the back.
It's my 5th Defender, now owning a Td4 Puma 110 2015, it's definitely a step up from the old Td5's. Was in Dielsdorf too and talked to Lukas D but still waiting for a test drive, like you said they are waiting for a software update. I am more and more hesitant to let my Landy go and probably won't do it until the Grenadier is well proven maybe in 2 years time......if ever, in the meantime I am improving my Landy constantly with modern parts......nice video, cheers Thomas
Do it now, I'm POSITIVE you'll be happy. It'll be your Defender, only with more comforts. Not the ridiculous Discovery 6 the Land Rover now calls a Defender 2023!
Greta 😂
Thanks for your video, you certainly highlighted some issues with the grenadier that I will definitely be on the lookout for. I ordered mine last May and I'm still waiting for it.
Grenadier is cool too! The problem is the delivery delay (parts come from China). The Chinese are blocking because they are collaborating with the Russians??? We'll never find out... Also, the Greens (from Germany) want to introduce stricter emission regulations and are in the EU. (I don't like this party!)... They're trying hard to sell electric cars... weirdly, these cars are all available there. Nobody wants that electric car shit! Greeting from Germany. My heart beats Landy :)
Nice practical review. Thanks
I’d definitely go for ineos
There’s just something about an old 4x4 that makes them special no matter how loud or slow they are it’s a sentimental thing 😂
Yes.
It is like you said, what will the Grenadier be like in 20 years time. Your Landy is still going strong.
A lot better than any Land Rover! It’s a much better vehicle. 🇬🇧🏴
@@vincentnastri7736don’t be silly. You can’t see into the future and the old Land Rover has proven itself over many many decades that it lasts! I know the haters don’t like to hear it but it’s true, they keep on going! Granted the later defenders (pumas) aren’t the same but they will still last..
we have 3 defenders we use for pulling ships mooring ropes and wires and they have a combined age of 56 years and they still give great service despite working in a marine environment… they get washed and have been treated with paint of course.
The new grenadier looks a decent truck in all honesty but will it become another legend… well I guess we will have to wait and see won’t we!
I did hear it has a BMW diesel so that’s a good start!!! Lol
Only reason defenders are still on the road is because of the amount of aftermarket parts available, and stupid owners keep pouring money into them..!!!
My sibling owns and operates two franchises of JLR products in the state and I’ve got a friend who owns a LandRover specialist workshop in Bridgwater UK (not Connecticut US) he’s overrun with work rebuilding them.!
@@Incountry see this is where people like you who really don’t know anything about Land rovers and put some great claims out there’s fall down with the comments!
You have different markets like you would in all vehicles… the garage I think you mentioned in the UK I know as I don’t live that far south of it and I’ve even spoken with the owner I think!
The reason many garages like this have done so well is they specialise in owners who want to have the trucks they drive better than the next man! People spend thousands on things they don’t need but it looks or sounds better than the guy they pull up to at the lights!
What I’m talking about is a Land Rover being used as a Land Rover and I can put my hand on my heart and say that all our trucks we use are still operating with the same axles, engine and gearbox’s and the biggest job which was done on the 2000s was a rear cross member!
As for after market parts lol. Obviously all vehicles need parts to keep them going but this is where the difference is between land rovers and the average car… after 15 years it’s pointless putting anymore aftermarket parts on a car or inferior truck to the Land Rover as it’s not worth it anymore and it’s off to the scrapyard!
With the Land Rover it’s different as they still keep plodding on and are worth something of value… big difference!
Tell that Land Rover friend of yours next time I’m at Dunball wharf I’ll pop in and grab a part or maybe I’ll get him to do a full rebuild because I want a different paint colour or a fancy V8 engine being fitted… nothing wrong with the original tdi but just want to give him my hard earned so it sounds better!!!
@@PillSharks
Sure, I don’t know anything about them…
People don’t make them better they’re always “repairing” them, it’s not improving because you cannot improve on garbage, as I asked my sibling “why JLR franchise?” reply was they make huge money in “warranty returns” and even more from out of warranty as most workshops don’t want the involvement, and the UK workshop I’m familiar with the owner stated to me “if it weren’t for Landrover repairs” he’d be broke and still be a college lecturer teaching automotive, I know the safety inspector guy which you call an MOT Tester who’s works there (ex-military) and even he states the same, “they’re junk”.
You cannot improve on junk, they’ve used Rover Group, BMW and FORD/PSA (Peugeot) made powertrains and now returned back to BMW for the gasoline blocks, chassis’s corrode like crazy, they leak like a Exxon Valdez (albeit lubricating the chassis same time) you’ll die horrifically in a collision anything above 30mph, electrics are atrocious if and when they work, so don’t give me “People like you don’t know anything”, it was me and the guys pulling out your shit* jackals from Afghanistan and Iraq by our superior but also shit*Humvees and that’s saying a lot..
If they sliced you open, it would say Land Rover through your core..... :). :)
🤣
There will not be another defender, a true proper utility vehicle.
I have an old 9 seater 1988 V8, and seems it is going to outlive me.
Looks great and a worthy update to the old defender. Classic or modern equivalent.
Ineos wins all the way, your opinion is biased to your car (Defender), while " Ineos" is mixture of traditional 4x4 and modern functions, which is totally accepted compare to what is new " Defender" looks like.
The romance of old 4x4 is all well and good until you need to drive them for 10 hours a day. I own a 70 series Landcruiser, which is similar to a Defender or LR series in terms of the vehicle being raw and pure. Although I appreciate how simple the vehicle is, it's tiring to drive on long trips and I think that a vehicle like the Grenadier would be a good upgrade.
definitely
It's give and take them old trucks can service yourself and repair at side of road if needed don't think can say that about all this high tech stuff which need very expensive diagnostic and special tools
I praise Jim Radcliff for making what should have been the new Defender.
I own a camper-converted 2014 2.2 Defender (my only car), and for me personally I see no advantage in buying a Grenadier.
I would never trade my good old (reliable and rust free) Landy for any other vehicle, not even for an Unimog. Yes, the Grenadier is the true 'New Defender' and I would prefer it to any other of the all-boring-same-looking 4WD today if tragedy would struck my 'Old Defender'.
I already fell in love with those great looking somehow unique vehicles when I was a little boy and it was at this time already when I made my decision to buy one when I grow up.
Why do people like old vehicles? It is not about comfort or performance, they give you that special feeling which is too hard to describe in a few words. The body is from the sixties and you drive (and 'work') like in the seventies. If two classic Landies pass each other, the owners always greet each other and you never know if that smiling person behind the wheel is a farmer or HRH King Charles himself.
Slow? That's ok because I enjoy the drive so much that I am almost never in a hurry. Loud? Isn't that sound of the Diesel engine great? (Btw, this makes it much easier for you to match the revs in case your clutch stops working - with mechanical sensitivity you'll get home without a clutch) And there are many more great things about owning such a unique vehicle.
Regards, MM
had a County 110 V8 for several years. Gas guzzler, and quirky, floated at speed, but don't remember it being stiff suspension at all. Paint faded, but bed in the back for the Ex worked well.
Had a county V8 too. Abiding memories: huge heat from the V8 in summer and overtaking Aston Martin at 90 mph on the M1.
Vielen Dank Mathis! Ehrlich direkt! Ich fahre mittlerweile seit über 15 Jahren verschiedene Land Rover Range Rover... Mein erster war ein P38 4.0 und nachher ein L322 4.4 beide Benziner und schon überarbeitet und entwickelt von BMW. Der Defender war für mich nie eine Option, ich bin 195 cm gross und auch mit den obligatorischen verlängerten Sitzschienen ist es für mich unmöglich eine komfortable Sitzposition zu finden. Ich fahre jetzt seit 8 Jahren einen 2008er RR L322 3.6TDV8, Verbrauch, Komfort, Sicherheit und die absolute Offroad capability sind meiner Meinung nach immer noch ungeschlagen. Ich lebe in Zentral-Serbien, einem Land, wo der Begriff "Strasse" nach einem heftigen Regen eine völlig neue Bedeutung bekommen kann..😉 Mein Range hat sich in Marokko oder in Rumänien schon viele Lacher anhören müssen, aber er hat mich noch nie enttäuscht. Klar die Elektronik muss man wie einen älteren PC behandeln, wenn er sich mal aufhängt gibts nur eins, den totalen Shutdown. Danach ein bisschen tätscheln und der ältere Herr Rover ist wieder voll da. Das Luftfahrwerk hat mich in keinem meiner drei Rangies im Stich gelassen (abgesehen v. einem kleinen Eigenbau im P38, war aber präventiv und für die Höherlegung). Wieso soll ich mir einen Ineos antun, noch dazu für diesen Preis? Und wenn ich die straffe Lenkung im Rangierbereich sehe, dann fällt mir nur der X3 meiner Mutter ein, genau das gleiche aus dem BMW Regal. Furchtbar beim Parkieren. Nein danke. Das haben sich die LR Leute nie nehmen lassen, als damals BMW übernahm... Die Offroadqualitäten der Marke dürfen auf keinen Fall eingebüsst werden. (Tata ist wieder eine andere Story)
Ich fahre mit meinem Range durch die Wälder Serbiens und danach kann ich direkt mit 150 auf der Autobahn in Dolby Surround in absolutem Luxus und mit relaxter Vorfreude zum Opernabend in Belgrad fahren.
Kilometerstand 358'000, Verbrauch im Schnitt 11l. Kaufpreis 2014: 12'900CHF mit 187'000km. Öl/Filterwechsel alle 10'000, keine Kompromisse. Reifen General AT3 255/55/20 AS.
Danke nochmals für deine ehrliche Art, neuer Subscriber! Gruss in die Heimat🇨🇭 aus Kragujevac🇷🇸
danke dir auch! vielleicht machst du mal ein video über dein auto?
Corrosion and oil leaks will shuffle the defenders grave in Switzerland particularly! Nothing compares to Landrover defender never has and never will, very true! But despite all that I strongly believe the Grenadier to evolve eventually into a defender replacement! Just wait until the first stripped down army version appears!
Army version?😂 Which army would use that shit?
About 15ys back my work bought a couple of Defender 110 diesels for their towing capacity. I had the opportunity to do many long trips in them, sometimes towing heavy boats, sometimes offroad in genuinely difficult conditions. They certainly looked the business but after driving them I realised what poorly designed, badly built gutless pieces of crap they were. They also kept breaking down. The inattention to detail was incredible. The drivers seat did not point forward. Ergonomics? None. Even the steering wheel was uncomfortable. It was noisy and breezy with huge uneven panel gaps. The 2.5 turbo diesel was gutless. One changed speed by changing gear. It was the most disappointing car Ive ever driven. I wanted to be impressed. I wasnt. We also ran Land Cruisers and they were better in every way. This is why Landrover in Australia went from 90% of the 4wd market to being niche poser vehicles for city folk who never leave the tarmac or stray to far from the dealer for the inevitable repairs. Ive no experience of the Grenadier or any JLR product since so have no comment of the Grenadier/new Discovery debate other than both would have to be bloody brilliant to beat the Landcruiser. I see no evidence of that.
Great comparison, comparing specific details. It is sad that the Land Rover management do not understand their customer base. The new Defender is 'just another SUV', whereas the old one was all about ruggedness, simplicity and functionality, a car that could be repaired in any back street garage in the world and didn't have much that could go wrong. The Grenadier was an opportunity to do what Land Rover should have done - update the Defender to deal with all its drawbacks but still keep it simple, and cheap. By doing this Ineos could have attracted a huge following from Defender owners but instead they have produced something that looks rather like a Defender and is very capable but is actually a complicated and expensive niche market vehicle.
The windscreen wash without a wipe is a good idea. It's so you don't get a smeared screen if you're washers are frozen or blocked with mud. It's not a fault.
I'll take BMW running gear over JLR / old Rover stuff any day. The old TD5 was a pos, the TDi was waaaay under powered and unreliable (but easy to fix) and the 2.2 / 2.4 were Ford engines with all the compromises that that implies. Poor gearboxes, poor diffs and weak half shafts.
BTW, I have a series 11 88', an early 90 V8, a TDi 90 and a 2.2 110 crew cab so I'm not a hater, I'm just not a blinkered fanboy.
You have a beautiful car there, I would keep it, Landy prices are rising day by day
You're ending statement says it all....Defender is cold, difficult to drive, not reliable...etc. This is a much more modern version and definitely worthy of the traditional Defender, yet improved. I will drive mine well over 20 years as I do my 21 yr old Land Rover and enjoy its unique characteristics.
My 27 year old is easy to drive, warm and extremely reliable. I have modern vehicles to compare it to but for 99% of trips, I take the 1997 Defender and cover 300 miles/500km every week.
Great video - thanks!!
thank you a great video with comparisons
I totally get the emotional attachment folks have with the Defender. It’s an icon that has a lot of character. But when commenting about this being heavy and that being heavy or the doors being dull, the thing is built like a tank but delivers an excellent ride that will be appreciated BIG TIME over the length of a long overland trip for sure. It’s also a bit bigger. Can’t wait to get mine. 👍🏻😎👍🏻
Just read your comment after leaving my own comment. We're in agreement! cheers from Oz
@@cyclemoto8744, back at you my friend!! Cheers!! 😎
Fair play mate even I enjoy seeing a Land Rover defender old or new , worth silly money in England now though ❤
i would never buy one anymore now in switzerland. the prices are ridicoules
Yes, they are silly money, but they don't depreciate either.
sold my V8 110 for 6k in 1996, paid 10.5k for it in 1987. UK £.
Forgot to mention that it was back in 1962, different motors and a vastly different world.
Thx Mathis, this is for sure a very hones video, I have been waiting for this kind of test. As much as I desire all the modernity of the Grenadier, I will for sure also never part with my 110 TD4 from 2008. To be fair I must say many of the things you outlined are a bit more comfy in the TD4, but overall the Defender-Feeling is the same. And I also doubt that in 20 years any Grenadier will still be on the road, but probably most of the Defenders will still be, as long as we get some Diesel to buy :D
You should check out the new Monro 4x4. More akin to the original land rover but with a cutting edge power train.
the monro looks bad ass!
I've just seen a few stills from the front, and the ground clearance is a bit low!
Nice comparison video. I full agree on your conclusions.
By the way where are the forest roads you are driving with the Landrover? Woudl like to experience that as well. Cheers from Urdorf (ZH).
i asked permission from a farmer, in switzerland there ist not a lot of legal dirt roads....
Thanks bro!
Thank you for this video, I am also a defender addict, from 300tdi, td5 and even the 2,4 puma though not my favorite, what stroke me whilst test driving the grenadier was the all digital feel from gear box to lcd screen without any sort of analog manometer in front of you which I find really disturbing…
Then comes the BMW 3l engine which seems impossible to put your hands into if you want to work on it.
The whole purpose of the defender is that you can do most of the jobs yourself and spare parts are extremely easy to find and in most cases cheap.
You’re talking about things you could do ages ago. The td4 can’t be maintained unless you can connect it to a computer
A slight skew in the comparison really.
My 2014 defender 110 double cab has electric windows,heated leather seats,traction control,ABS,Heated windscreen,Aircon and an intercooler upgrade,it travels quietly on the road and monsters the work i do offroad.
i was just comparing my one...
Unless you’ve lived with a land rover for some time you just can’t appreciate it best car i ever had.
There are some great features on the Grenadier for sure. However, other than design and some luggage carrying functionality on the exterior, I still don't think it has enough of a 'wow factor' that I would consider this over the new Defender. Despite having a solid rear axle. I grew up with the old Defender at a time when it was simply known as Land Rover and in all honesty, nothing will ever replace the old Defender. That said, the old Defender had become old fashioned, compromised on comfort and safety. It also wasn't selling in enough numbers for it to continue and I think that this might be the same fate that may lead to the Grenadier having a very short span in the market place. Regrettably but realistically, we need the 'Chelsea tractor and school run brigade' to buy them so that they remain on sale. I am not confident that the Grenadier will appeal to the Chelsea tractor and school run markets.
The "wow factor" of the Grenadier is that it is being made, the classic Defender is not. (I own a 2020 Defender, great at many things but it is not a "Defender"). I also have an '86 110 that I rarely drive because of all of its "charm" takes a lot of energy. The Grenadier is what the New Defender should have been. Quite capable and modern enough to be practical.
The old Defender never had comfort or safety to compromise on in the first place.
Looks like the grenadier is a good vehicle, but it is still crawling still gonna go threw teething stages to get better in years to come like any car manufacturer hope the best for them , BUT if you own a I CON like a 110 defender old school you just won't part with it, mine didn't grow on me it crew in me ,I have a 1986 V8 just ❤️ it😁😁 nice video 👍
Who is sales them? Where I can buy one, or I should order it? Any information would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
The only thing so far that I REALLY don't like is the automatic gearbox! I'm a manual driver through and through!
Great comparison. INEOS appears to have addressed the main problems with the classic Defender. I hope they sell well.
On the other hand, my 1995 Defender TD300 seems intent on lasting forever. You set it as you prefer, and there you are. No reason to change.
I had a '95 300TDi 90. Loved it but it fell apart. Transmission problems, rear 1/4 chassis, needed a new bulkhead, engine consumed water and smoked in equal quantities. Sold it, and expecting delivery of my Ineos by the end of this month.
great review, but decided to change and will never forget my green old fellow.😪
Lenkrad leicht versetzt zum Sitz - Lada Taiga hat das auch :-)
Other than the fact it's wrong hand drive or cackhanded, I like it.
Defender vs Grenadier , or appreciation vs depreciation lol.
Now will it be sold in the US market too?
No I love my 110 300tdi , it's a trusty work horse , I can imagine the inos becoming another Chelsea tractor
IMO its difficult to compare these two considering the huge price difference (at least in Austria)
Have you test driven the new Defender for comparison?
finally. Thank you!
Even Land Rover couldn't sell the old Defender it had very limited appeal to a very small market of new car buyers, They are in the business of moving new metal it's that simple.
thanks, i never though about that
The Grenadier is a fake Landrover that will give owners lots of problems in the years to come, Mainly because while it may look like a defender it has too many electronic things that will go wrong and thats guaranteed to happen, I can vouch for that myself, Simplicity is what made the Landy a reliable legend
Grenadier makes more sense, proper offroader though we pray for price to come down Abit to 50k, 40k
I'll take a new Grenadier over a 20-year-old defender any day of the week.... and I am. It is for intense and purpose, a modern defender, and would be if Landrover was still british owned and wanted to build an actual new one. Decent vid though. 👌
the grenadier is a fine ride, enjoy! i just did not want to make an other advertisement like all the journalists i have seen
To be honest all new cars are a computer on wheels .And I don't like it .if my old 4x4 breaks down I can fix it at side of road try that on this new stuff usually need a tow truck and a pocket full of cash
Intents and purpose.
Thank you so much for this video!!!
I was a proud owner of a LR - 90 TD5 (2001).
My dad has a LR 300Tdi - since 1996 no issues (except rust).
I've sold my LR to get a bigger "working/traveling" horse, so early 2021 i set my pre-order for the Grenadier.
BUT after joining a couple presentation/ and some testdrives for myself in Germany and Austria - i have withdrawn my order.
We tested the Grenadier in really harsh and hard offroad conditions, and holy shit the car is AWESOME ... BUT biggest issues during my/our testdrives
!! ---- I AM NOT prejudging and I KNOW !! IT WAS A TESTVEHICLE !! ---- !!
- in steep declines the motor often stopped. In one occasion the motor stopped -> the wheels blocked (maybe the system thought its "parking") -> we started slipping downhills.
- dirty sensors messed up the whole system -> the Ineos mechanics had to pull the sensor-plugs so we could continue our driving.
That was only possible, because it was a test vehicle. It wont be that easy/possible in the "sales" cars!
- i don't care about horsepower, i need the raw strength so i prefer diesel -> Europe mandatory ... AdBlue.
I talked to the mechanics - yes its possible to "turn" it off, but you have to shortcut the system -> loss of warranty.
If you don't refill AdBlue, the power will be cut in half and after some warnings you can start the car 3 times ... after that ... the car is done and has to be towed.
- i had the same issues with the windshield wipers.
- kind of similar problems with the starting.
Crossing karpatian alps in my old LR -> i've loosened up the seat-belt - opened the door - hopped out of the car -> checked the obstacle -> hopped into the car -> drove over/around the obstacle - NO seat-belt on (yes i know ... blablabla safety issue).
That was NOT possible in the Grenadier!
Door isn't proper closed -> you cant start the car at all.
During the testdrive with the Grenadier, low gear crawling mode, I've opened the door to check the distance between the rockslider and an boulder.
The car just stopped ... literally it stopped ... and i was like ... "Whaattt ?". We had to close all doors, seat-belts, windows to restart the "system".
And if you don't have your seat-belt on, the system goes nuts.
- after a long talk with the mechanics ... NO IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to turn of 100% of the "electronic-assistance-goodies".
- holy shit the "beeps"
Yes, sure ... we live in the 21st century, climate issues, safety standards, ... and aside from that ... Europe as a lot of regulations and laws ... so its not easy to design/produce a solid workhorse/off-roader.
Compared to LC, LR, G-Wagon and Jeep JK ... the Grenadier is one of the BEST off-road vehicles I've ever driven !
The obstacles we takkeld with the Grenadier, holllllyyy ... shit!
Its going to be one, if not the best off-roader vehicles out there, but they have to sort the electronic issues and "rethink" some off the assistance-goodies.
For example ... I want to start my car, how i want ... when i want (doors opened, closed, seat-belted ... what ever).
- if the motor stops, the sensor/e-features MUST NOT block the wheels!
- adjustable beeping (on/off)
- adjustable sensors (on/off) -> sensors dirty -> give me the infomassage "sensors dirty" but you must not hardcore interfere into the cars driving capabilities. so let me turn them off
Your defender looks great even though it's not perfect. It's amazing how much these old defenders sell for today. For me I actually like the new defender I think they did a good modern take on the defender.
thanks, i guess its always a matter on perspective and preference. i never actually tried the new defender, perhaps i should give it a go!
@@MathisMotionPictures yes do would love to hear your thoughts on the new one
When it breaks down, where do you get parts?
Blasphemy indeed - JLR lost the plot!
This man‘s explanation summarizes what’s wrong with those who dislike the new Defender: they like to suffer. So they can’t buy a new defender because that would be too comfortable.
What utter codswallop and how judgemental.
@@andrewbaker7854 so what’s your rational?
I know how you feel...they are and always will be great.
In my world l love the old Jeep Cherokee 1995-2000 diesel or petrol both good .
Not perfect by far...but so functional...and reasonably comfortable.
They do it all..safe reasonably easy to work on and the petrol emissions are well within limits 👍
So new is not always best.
Good video
I understand you like your Defender because it's a bit like a big toy to feel all the basic mechanics of an old fashioned car.
To most of those who bought Defenders new when they were built, however, that was not the point: they wanted to go from A to B on rough terrain and carry themselves and their stuff. Not much philosophy about adventurous feeling there.
As soon as Toyota built tough and durable off-roaders, for example most Australian customers switched brands - and LR fought to meet increased safety and environmental standards with the ancient design.
I think the new Defender is good at what it's supposed to do, as is the Grenadier.
If you want a charming but noisy, leaking and rusting toy for 20.000 €, you won't get it from those new models.
It would be like swapping a Rolex for a Rotex
Good video. Thanks
You should try out the 70 and 80 series toyota Land Cruiser.
was this a prototype or an actual production model?
You can fix all these "faults" in your Defender.
The clutch can be made lighter with a little spring kit for around £20, the ride can be made better by fitting Puma springs and dampers, and a bit of carefully applied soundproofing will reduce the noise at 60mph by 10db, which is a lot.
l know this because l did all these things to my 110 TD5. As for leaks, l cured most of them!
And if you overhaul the heater you'll find it can be surprisingly good.
Not like a Grenadier heater of course, but certainly good enough
thanks!
Now which one will you do first!
@@oldcargeezer i changed the spring, which is great!
@@MathisMotionPictures Makes quite a difference doesn't it! Good work.
@@oldcargeezer strange at first but when i got used it i love it!
“Cold in the winter, hot in the summer.” And so noisy that you have to wear noise canceling headphones!!! 😮A glutton for punishment, no?
passion😅
BAH.AEM.DEKCE.WAL.PET.LHART
If you need noice cancelling headphones when driving Land Rover Defender,you maybe should convert to a Tesla:) I have been driving Landie 109/Defender for 30 years and I love the sound of it everyday:)
Stick with the Defender.
Interesting!