Also certain BMWs have active air flaps that help you warm up the engine much quicker. Then when it needs cooling they open up and let air flow through the radiator to provide appropriate cooling.
A neighbour has an OG M2, and often leaves his car idling on his drive for 10-15 mins before he drives it, and then he drives sooooo slow, I wouldn't dream of buying a car from him, it must be carbon coked up like mad. Cars like that (and indeed the M140i) really benefit from a good run/rev once up to temp.
You can still drive it quickly even during warm up, just don’t Rev it hard. You don’t need to with an M140 with all its torque and you can still cover ground quickly
The problem with using a higher viscosity oil (say 40) on a track day is the oil pump is not able to pump the same volume of oil around the engine than if it was a lower viscosity oil. This means less cooling effect and more work for the oil pump.
If you go from 30-40, the oil pump will be fine. It’s well within its limits. But yeah, you’re right if you go from a 5w30 to 10w60 for example, it may struggle.
Very well said 👌let’s not forget about the Transmission getting up to Temperature also. I see so many “petrol heads” who have Zero Mechanical Sympathy.
I forgot to mention the transmission but if you’re waiting for the oil temp to get up to fully operating temperature then the trans fluid will be more than ready to go at the same time 😁👍
With my personal experience from my b58 engine, engine is up to temp within 5-7 min of copying my E92 M3 warm up procedure. Transmission on the other hand takes 20-40 minutes to get to 180ish F depending on streets vs highway. Yes. 40 min driving highway on eco pro mode to get completely up to temp on my 8HP
@@TheMrwinkleberry- I find this too, at least 40 min drive before I can really unleash hell By that time is feels silky smooth And doesn’t feel groggy in between
Actually the B58 with its clever thermal management warms up quicker than most 1.4 Liter 4 Cylinder (VW): Coming from only 2-3Celsius the M140 already has 70 degrees oil after only ca 5min
Hence why I mentioned the heat encapsulation where it can retain heat in the engine for up to 36 hours. This is why it can warm up wicker than some 4 cylinders.
All oil needs to reach 100c (average operating temp) to boil off water accumulated from combustion which in diesels will turn oil acidic(over time) and in petrols will just dilute the oil and create more wear (over time). Anyone guilty of constant short journeys not getting the oil to temp will know the emulsion on the oil cap caused by that water/condensation not being boiled off (more typically seen in winter particularly in diesels driven short journeys, they tend to have a greater thermal efficiency so take longer to see 100c oil temps) . This is why they've always recommended more frequent oil changes if you tend do shorter drives/low miles. Ragging an engine below these oil temperatures also means that parts haven't thermally expanded to 100% causing additional wear as clearances/tolerances are much greater. Bore wash is another symptom of high load/idle on a cold engine. The main reason we don't let cars idle in the winter anymore is because of poisoning the catalytic converter. When an engine is cold they are running rich to help get upto operating temp. engines don't run great from cold as they are nowhere near peak thermal efficiency. This running rich tends to poison catalytic converters (through incomplete combustion/over fuelling) as well as creating excessive blow by gasses for longer periods, this also contaminates/degrades the oil more. I could go into great details. Also I've seen -18°c in Scotland which last time I checked is part of the UK. 🤣🤣🤣 I appreciate this video is just an opinion which I'd take with a pinch of salt. But for some people watching... its wise to research and gain experience before you teach, opinions are often taken as fact. This is a free education...look after your engine and it'll look after you mechanically. If you have no intentions of long term ownership or its a hire car. All the above is completely irrelevant, full send... **Edited to make sense for those reading and to add, if you get the facts nailed down you'll go far on RUclips, natural presenting style. 👍 👍
Guys, just to let you know as he is not explaining it in the video. Driving 4-5 miles is great to warm up the oil BUT, driving 4-5 miles doing 30mph and driving 4-5 miles doing 60-70mph is extremely different! The slower you are, the more time it takes to do 4-5 miles and your oil will be warm, however, while doing 60-70mph doing 4-5 miles is going to take you around about 5 minutes which is not enough for your oil to warm up. Certain brands of oil will make your oil get to optimum temperature faster. For example a Castrol 5w30 LL will warm up a lot faster than a standard Harlfords (or any cheap brands) 5w30 for example. To warm up your oil you have to obviously drive the car for a bit but you can also drive the car at higher revs. (Do not drive the car at higher revs on a cold start) For example, after 5 minutes of driving you could use your engine braking up to 2.5 3k revs without damaging your engine and you'd warm your engine oil up a lot faster. I own a Cupra 290 and the optimum temperature before I drive it 'hard' is 100 -105 degrees. If the car has been running for 10-15 minutes, you've been driving a few miles and the oil is at 95 degrees there's absolutely no problem with you starting the drive it 'hard' just don't push too hard until it reaches the optimum temperature. If you shift at 4.5-5k revs, the engine oil will shoot up to your optimum temperature in a matter of 1 minute then you can enjoy you car and have fun. Hope this helps and makes sense.
@@olaf9063 you seem to know your oils. Anything in-store better than pennzoil 5w20 platinum high mileage?? I heard royal purple sold and isn’t the same anymore.
@@CharlesLarsMusic Depends what engine, what use, what mileage, if it's under warranty, what climate it's used in. It's not that simple :) Where in the world as well - because some European oils might not be available in the US. Long story short - outside warranty? Ravenol RUP 5W-40.
Hi, You don’t need to over think it. Just drive your car carefully for 4/5 miles and then you can drive hard. Yes the higher the speed the higher the engine speed. On the M140i, this doesn’t mean much as there’s 8 gear ratios. So if you’re cruising in 8th at 70, you’ll be at a similar engine rotation speed as you would be at 30 in 4/5th gear. Of course it’s going to take less time to do 5 miles at 70. Everyone’s journey to work (for example) is different. The 5 mile rule is a rough guid. Thanks for your comment though 😎
Thays why i invested in a p3 gauge, i like knowing how warm everything is, but absolutely understand that not everyone has 400 plus quid to be able to do this!. Its also about having a bit of common sense, if youre screaming off your driveway at 7k revs on a cold morning then you shouldn't own a performance car in the first place?! Haha
May i ask is that the coolant temperature or oil temperature which one rises more faster? If the coolant is faster does it hv huge difference between the rises of oil temperature
@@roadreg1820i usually wait until I’ve crossed town before gassing it. This usually is mostly 20 mph with a lot traffic lights.. The temperature gauge is usually just about 90 degrees by then. I’d suggest it’s around 13-15 minutes run time before I’d get on the gas. If I have to shut off the car within a couple of minutes I’ll leave it idling for maybe 30-60 seconds after parking before I get out. Do you think this would cause any issues? It’s a TDI and I use Mobil 1 fully synthetic, think it’s 5w30 with yearly oil changes - around 3000-4000 miles a year. I really love my car a lot and don’t want to damage anything. Any thoughts on this? This most chance I really get to enjoy it is a quick run down the dual carriageway to visit the supermarket 😞
I have a 340i with a Gen 1 b58 so it doesn’t have the integrated exhaust manifold in the cylinder head. But needless to say, I do just about the same procedure as you described when warming up the car. I wait for the cold start idle to drop after like 5-10 seconds then I get going. I keep the car between 1-2 thousand RPM until the oil reaches at least 160 Fahrenheit
Is it fine to immediately put it into gear to move into a new parking bay after a cold start? Because i look at this way. When you start the engine, keep the rpm in mind, and then when u out car in drive, it has merely the same rpm right? I won’t be giving it any gas just coasting with brake. So would that be fine if I do it?
Idling is mostly fine (as long as your cooling system can handle it, see hot summee's day), BUT don't use it as a means of "warming up" the engine before ragging on it. Idle warm-up is uneven, unlike part-load warm-up, which will set you up with the wrong clearances in some places. Not a good way to get to redline...
The specific quantity of oil is lower the bigger the engine. In other words: the quantity each cylinder needs to warm up is bigger the smaller the engine is. The difference is in the efficiency of the engine. The more efficient it is, the less heat it will generate and thus is ‘available’ to warm up the engine. Listen to me: just warm up the engine properly. And by that I mean the oil temperature rather than water. If you have a water gauge only, here the rule of thumb: drive 2-3 times longer than it took you to warm up cooling water.
There is actually a procedure for electric cars as it relates to the batteries. The batteries were not give you the full available strength until they are warmed up.
When you start in cold conditions, say around the freezing point, how fast does the oil heat up when you start driving? I guess the temperature trails behind the coolant temp by a few minutes?
@@roadreg1820 Thanks for the reply. My car doesn’t have oil temp gauge but I run a 5kW Webasto heater so most of my starts in the winter I have between 40-55° coolant temp when I start the engine. I think this should also speed up the temp rise in the oil but not sure how much.
@@roadreg1820 thank Reg. I wasn’t saying your statement is wrong - was just trying to understand this cat heating procedure and what’s the effect if you start driving while it’s active, or code out the cat heating in general
@@roadreg1820 yes that’s my understanding: Cat heating is basically very late ignition timing (ignition when outlet valves are already open) to get maximum heat out of the cylinder into the cat: Cat already has to work after very short time after start (ca 1min) and cat needs temperature to become effective
On a performance car yes. On a everyday driver there is no need to warm anything up - you’re simply wasting time and fuel and actually keeping the engine out of it’s ideal temperature window longer i.e. the aim is to get to that ideal oil/coolant temp as fast as possible, which is achieved faster by driving than by idling. Lesson is don’t sit and idle just drive it slowly and calmy for the first few miles👌
I usually wait about 10-20 seconds before I roll off like a grandma. I try to keep it under 2000 rpm for the first 5 minutes before hitting the highway and I only drive the car hard after 15-20 minutes or so.
Wish I could convince my moron neighbour about this stuff. He likes to sit with his V8 Landcruiser with a dpf delete and muffler delete revving at 3000rpm for about 4 minutes - at 6am on a sunday morning... Sadly the demographic involved in a car like that is also the one too stupid to be told otherwise or be asked to be a bit considerate of neighbours.
Revving it at 3,000rpm on Sunday morning deliberately is a bit far. I’ve never had a complaint about my car. Tbh, once the cold start dies down after about 60 seconds, the valves close and it goes very quite, and it’s not intrusive or loud. It’s the initial start up that’s loud.
@@roadreg1820 Bogans be bogan… I don’t really care he’s only wasting fuel, loading up the DPF (although probably not in his case…) and diluting his oil with diesel past the rings on a rich running cold engine. He is welcome to the repair bills and his kids asthma specialist. I’d also say he’s just loading the egr system, but im tipping he did a delete on that too!
Also certain BMWs have active air flaps that help you warm up the engine much quicker. Then when it needs cooling they open up and let air flow through the radiator to provide appropriate cooling.
This is very true.
A neighbour has an OG M2, and often leaves his car idling on his drive for 10-15 mins before he drives it, and then he drives sooooo slow, I wouldn't dream of buying a car from him, it must be carbon coked up like mad.
Cars like that (and indeed the M140i) really benefit from a good run/rev once up to temp.
A good ol’ italian tune up.
You can still drive it quickly even during warm up, just don’t Rev it hard. You don’t need to with an M140 with all its torque and you can still cover ground quickly
Exactly that.
The problem with using a higher viscosity oil (say 40) on a track day is the oil pump is not able to pump the same volume of oil around the engine than if it was a lower viscosity oil.
This means less cooling effect and more work for the oil pump.
If you go from 30-40, the oil pump will be fine. It’s well within its limits. But yeah, you’re right if you go from a 5w30 to 10w60 for example, it may struggle.
Very well said 👌let’s not forget about the Transmission getting up to Temperature also. I see so many “petrol heads” who have Zero Mechanical Sympathy.
I forgot to mention the transmission but if you’re waiting for the oil temp to get up to fully operating temperature then the trans fluid will be more than ready to go at the same time 😁👍
With my personal experience from my b58 engine, engine is up to temp within 5-7 min of copying my E92 M3 warm up procedure. Transmission on the other hand takes 20-40 minutes to get to 180ish F depending on streets vs highway. Yes. 40 min driving highway on eco pro mode to get completely up to temp on my 8HP
@@TheMrwinkleberry- I find this too, at least 40 min drive before I can really unleash hell
By that time is feels silky smooth
And doesn’t feel groggy in between
Actually the B58 with its clever thermal management warms up quicker than most 1.4 Liter 4 Cylinder (VW):
Coming from only 2-3Celsius the M140 already has 70 degrees oil after only ca 5min
Hence why I mentioned the heat encapsulation where it can retain heat in the engine for up to 36 hours. This is why it can warm up wicker than some 4 cylinders.
All oil needs to reach 100c (average operating temp) to boil off water accumulated from combustion which in diesels will turn oil acidic(over time) and in petrols will just dilute the oil and create more wear (over time). Anyone guilty of constant short journeys not getting the oil to temp will know the emulsion on the oil cap caused by that water/condensation not being boiled off (more typically seen in winter particularly in diesels driven short journeys, they tend to have a greater thermal efficiency so take longer to see 100c oil temps) . This is why they've always recommended more frequent oil changes if you tend do shorter drives/low miles.
Ragging an engine below these oil temperatures also means that parts haven't thermally expanded to 100% causing additional wear as clearances/tolerances are much greater. Bore wash is another symptom of high load/idle on a cold engine.
The main reason we don't let cars idle in the winter anymore is because of poisoning the catalytic converter. When an engine is cold they are running rich to help get upto operating temp. engines don't run great from cold as they are nowhere near peak thermal efficiency. This running rich tends to poison catalytic converters (through incomplete combustion/over fuelling) as well as creating excessive blow by gasses for longer periods, this also contaminates/degrades the oil more.
I could go into great details. Also I've seen -18°c in Scotland which last time I checked is part of the UK. 🤣🤣🤣
I appreciate this video is just an opinion which I'd take with a pinch of salt. But for some people watching... its wise to research and gain experience before you teach, opinions are often taken as fact.
This is a free education...look after your engine and it'll look after you mechanically. If you have no intentions of long term ownership or its a hire car.
All the above is completely irrelevant, full send...
**Edited to make sense for those reading and to add, if you get the facts nailed down you'll go far on RUclips, natural presenting style. 👍 👍
Short journeys are a nightmare for diesels, especially in the winter. Everytime I drive my diesel, I try to get it to operating temperatures.
NO IT DOES NOT, water evaporates even at 20c, just slower, as long as the oils warmed up its enough, super short journeys are not great..
@mojomomo1475 Go to uni and work in the field then try me.
Guys, just to let you know as he is not explaining it in the video. Driving 4-5 miles is great to warm up the oil BUT, driving 4-5 miles doing 30mph and driving 4-5 miles doing 60-70mph is extremely different! The slower you are, the more time it takes to do 4-5 miles and your oil will be warm, however, while doing 60-70mph doing 4-5 miles is going to take you around about 5 minutes which is not enough for your oil to warm up.
Certain brands of oil will make your oil get to optimum temperature faster. For example a Castrol 5w30 LL will warm up a lot faster than a standard Harlfords (or any cheap brands) 5w30 for example.
To warm up your oil you have to obviously drive the car for a bit but you can also drive the car at higher revs. (Do not drive the car at higher revs on a cold start)
For example, after 5 minutes of driving you could use your engine braking up to 2.5 3k revs without damaging your engine and you'd warm your engine oil up a lot faster.
I own a Cupra 290 and the optimum temperature before I drive it 'hard' is 100 -105 degrees. If the car has been running for 10-15 minutes, you've been driving a few miles and the oil is at 95 degrees there's absolutely no problem with you starting the drive it 'hard' just don't push too hard until it reaches the optimum temperature. If you shift at 4.5-5k revs, the engine oil will shoot up to your optimum temperature in a matter of 1 minute then you can enjoy you car and have fun. Hope this helps and makes sense.
Castol 5W30 LL is one of the worst oils on the market. Poor base, bad thermal control, cheap additive package. What a crap comparison.
@@olaf9063 you seem to know your oils. Anything in-store better than pennzoil 5w20 platinum high mileage?? I heard royal purple sold and isn’t the same anymore.
@@CharlesLarsMusic Depends what engine, what use, what mileage, if it's under warranty, what climate it's used in. It's not that simple :) Where in the world as well - because some European oils might not be available in the US.
Long story short - outside warranty? Ravenol RUP 5W-40.
Hi,
You don’t need to over think it.
Just drive your car carefully for 4/5 miles and then you can drive hard.
Yes the higher the speed the higher the engine speed. On the M140i, this doesn’t mean much as there’s 8 gear ratios. So if you’re cruising in 8th at 70, you’ll be at a similar engine rotation speed as you would be at 30 in 4/5th gear.
Of course it’s going to take less time to do 5 miles at 70. Everyone’s journey to work (for example) is different. The 5 mile rule is a rough guid.
Thanks for your comment though 😎
I spoke to millers with regards to my m140i and they recommended 5w 40 as its mapped.
Thays why i invested in a p3 gauge, i like knowing how warm everything is, but absolutely understand that not everyone has 400 plus quid to be able to do this!.
Its also about having a bit of common sense, if youre screaming off your driveway at 7k revs on a cold morning then you shouldn't own a performance car in the first place?! Haha
May i ask is that the coolant temperature or oil temperature which one rises more faster? If the coolant is faster does it hv huge difference between the rises of oil temperature
I would say the coolant by a small amount, perhaps almost the same on a hot day.
@@roadreg1820 alright, thanks bro🙏👍
@@roadreg1820i usually wait until I’ve crossed town before gassing it. This usually is mostly 20 mph with a lot traffic lights.. The temperature gauge is usually just about 90 degrees by then. I’d suggest it’s around 13-15 minutes run time before I’d get on the gas. If I have to shut off the car within a couple of minutes I’ll leave it idling for maybe 30-60 seconds after parking before I get out. Do you think this would cause any issues? It’s a TDI and I use Mobil 1 fully synthetic, think it’s 5w30 with yearly oil changes - around 3000-4000 miles a year. I really love my car a lot and don’t want to damage anything. Any thoughts on this? This most chance I really get to enjoy it is a quick run down the dual carriageway to visit the supermarket 😞
More to do with machined tolerances and uneven temperatures causing differing rates of thermal expansion than oil temp
I have a 340i with a Gen 1 b58 so it doesn’t have the integrated exhaust manifold in the cylinder head. But needless to say, I do just about the same procedure as you described when warming up the car. I wait for the cold start idle to drop after like 5-10 seconds then I get going. I keep the car between 1-2 thousand RPM until the oil reaches at least 160 Fahrenheit
Even when it’s winter?
@@ouzayaza5921 when it’s winter I give it around 3-4 mins or until it comes up off the cold market one notch and drive gently until fully warm.
Is it fine to immediately put it into gear to move into a new parking bay after a cold start? Because i look at this way. When you start the engine, keep the rpm in mind, and then when u out car in drive, it has merely the same rpm right? I won’t be giving it any gas just coasting with brake. So would that be fine if I do it?
Idling is mostly fine (as long as your cooling system can handle it, see hot summee's day), BUT don't use it as a means of "warming up" the engine before ragging on it. Idle warm-up is uneven, unlike part-load warm-up, which will set you up with the wrong clearances in some places. Not a good way to get to redline...
This is correct!
The specific quantity of oil is lower the bigger the engine. In other words: the quantity each cylinder needs to warm up is bigger the smaller the engine is. The difference is in the efficiency of the engine. The more efficient it is, the less heat it will generate and thus is ‘available’ to warm up the engine.
Listen to me: just warm up the engine properly. And by that I mean the oil temperature rather than water. If you have a water gauge only, here the rule of thumb: drive 2-3 times longer than it took you to warm up cooling water.
There is actually a procedure for electric cars as it relates to the batteries. The batteries were not give you the full available strength until they are warmed up.
When you start in cold conditions, say around the freezing point, how fast does the oil heat up when you start driving? I guess the temperature trails behind the coolant temp by a few minutes?
Just slightly but I think after 10 mins of driving your oil is getting there tbh. It depends on the season too.
@@roadreg1820 Thanks for the reply. My car doesn’t have oil temp gauge but I run a 5kW Webasto heater so most of my starts in the winter I have between 40-55° coolant temp when I start the engine. I think this should also speed up the temp rise in the oil but not sure how much.
Reg, what’s that idea to not directly drive the car within ca 40-50s cold start cycle ?
That’s just me, it won’t hurt it if you do.
@@roadreg1820 thank Reg.
I wasn’t saying your statement is wrong - was just trying to understand this cat heating procedure and what’s the effect if you start driving while it’s active, or code out the cat heating in general
@@vollcare4076 I don’t think it would hurt the cat, I think it’s mainly for emissions?
@@roadreg1820 yes that’s my understanding:
Cat heating is basically very late ignition timing (ignition when outlet valves are already open) to get maximum heat out of the cylinder into the cat:
Cat already has to work after very short time after start (ca 1min) and cat needs temperature to become effective
I don’t think I’ve had an oil temperature gauge in a car: coolant yes, and oil pressure, but not oil temperature!
Me neither until I got the 140. It’s a blessing.
On a performance car yes. On a everyday driver there is no need to warm anything up - you’re simply wasting time and fuel and actually keeping the engine out of it’s ideal temperature window longer i.e. the aim is to get to that ideal oil/coolant temp as fast as possible, which is achieved faster by driving than by idling. Lesson is don’t sit and idle just drive it slowly and calmy for the first few miles👌
I usually wait about 10-20 seconds before I roll off like a grandma. I try to keep it under 2000 rpm for the first 5 minutes before hitting the highway and I only drive the car hard after 15-20 minutes or so.
Electric cars need zero warm up time. However, no amount of time will make them as much fun as a combustion engine car!
I agree !
Maybe the only consideration with EV is the tyres.
Wish I could convince my moron neighbour about this stuff. He likes to sit with his V8 Landcruiser with a dpf delete and muffler delete revving at 3000rpm for about 4 minutes - at 6am on a sunday morning...
Sadly the demographic involved in a car like that is also the one too stupid to be told otherwise or be asked to be a bit considerate of neighbours.
Revving it at 3,000rpm on Sunday morning deliberately is a bit far. I’ve never had a complaint about my car. Tbh, once the cold start dies down after about 60 seconds, the valves close and it goes very quite, and it’s not intrusive or loud. It’s the initial start up that’s loud.
@@roadreg1820 If this muppet had a stock exhaust and just let it idle I’d be able to stay asleep…
@@froggy0162 daaaam. I feel your pain.
@@roadreg1820 Bogans be bogan… I don’t really care he’s only wasting fuel, loading up the DPF (although probably not in his case…) and diluting his oil with diesel past the rings on a rich running cold engine. He is welcome to the repair bills and his kids asthma specialist.
I’d also say he’s just loading the egr system, but im tipping he did a delete on that too!