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You have to look at why some players solo play. Everyone solos at some point during game play. If not then you are not maximizing your online time. For me, I don’t pay $15 to wait on queues or get shamed by other players. If Blizzard gives me an alternative to getting my high end crests, I’m no longer forced to wait or play with toxic players. This could have a positive impact on the game. I still have a way to upgrade my character and toxic players must learn to chill out, relax and have fun. It’s a game.
Dungeons and raids are toxic. I've been playing since 2005, and when no one knew what they were doing, dungeons were a blast! But in devolved into screaming matches between players. It wasn't fun anymore. That's why I went solo around Cataclysm. I play the main story line, until a dungeon is required to progress. I enjoy the open world fights were players gather to burn down a dragon or something. Like the caves in the Siren Isle are fun. I am hoping in the future they will let solos do dungeons with their warbands.
I do not understand the ideology of impeding one style of play, solo, for some perceived harm it does to another style, group play. If players are “using” delves to earn crests rather than the mythic route, then the issue isn’t delves its why are the other routes so unappealing that people don’t want to use them. There are thousands of videos out about the miserable mythic+ PUG experience, yet people keep insisting on limiting options for people who just want to run challenging solo content as some kind of solution to force people into mythic content.
Just running with the common mentality - the "hardest" content in mmos give the strongest rewards. With or without the cap there's still going to be a roughly 7 item level difference between a solo player and a group player as opposed to the roughly 20 item level difference on average. We've heard plenty of stories from players who do keys and raids for the experience, not necessarily the rewards. But that journey feels compromised when the gearing doesn't come from their content but by doing something else cause it's easier. Yeah yeah we can say just don't gear from Delves but let's be realistic, that's like telling the no-fly people to just never use their mounts and we don't get anywhere with something so facetious. And I wouldn't suggest to those people "okay just do harder content" cause we'll have come around this full, ironic circle.
@@SoulSoBreezy honestly drop the ilvl difference and tell people tp get over it. Let delves reward equivalent gear to the other ways to get gear and lets move on.
@@SoulSoBreezy why should a mythic raid be considered harder than a mythically tuned delve? If the challenge for a given player is exactly the same (same dps, same healing, same mecanics, same time spent, same "lock out" system) then why should there be a difference in item level reward? The only difference between both is the social interaction which has nothing to do with the game content itself. The reason I stopped playing in a guild is because there was too much hassel and drama every week in putting the right group together. I'd rather play solo most of the time, and occasionally play with others, for the fun of it. Not the other way around.
Solo player and I see no difference in awarding gilded crests for Delves or Mythic. The solo players doing Delves do so because they don't want the drama and toxicity associated with timed mythic rums. Yes, your guild mythic runs with players you know will probably be just fine, but all of us have seen the multitude of complaints about toxic players when pugging. Some of us have been playing our toons since WOW came out and know our class inside out. What difference is a higher powered solo player going to make to mythic players? We are not there to out do them and we don't give a crap about your IO score.
I love delves. I have had so many bad experiences with dungeons and raids, because I'm not really good at them. Nothing like being screamed at by a kid 1/4 my age because I missed something in a boss fight.
I’m so happy about delves and the fact that the part they have in the game is growing. I’m a mythic raider and I feel like I have to do 8 or at least 4 m10 a week to keep up gearwise with my guildies and I really don’t find m10’s fun.. I would much rather do 8 t11 delves a week than 4 m10’s to get a chance of mythic tear gear (if they were to add that at some point)
I am a heroic raider and I despise M+ so I geared strictly through delves and raids. It was great until I hit the need for gilded crests. I totally agree they should add some mythic track gear to T11 delves. But in the meantime this will be super helpful as I can finally upgrade my hero track gear all the way up. Being stuck at 4/6 on every slot sucks
Ive said it before and I'll say it again. If I can have the equivalent to 636 fully crafted + 626 Hero (vault) Tier set from catalyst by playing solo delves. I'm gquitting, never joining another toxic mythic+ group again, and playing with my small group of IRL friends or solo in delves. It would be absolutely amazing! Turning all chat off. heaven.
I mean...yeah that's what looks like is gonna happen next season. I'm just exploring what I think are minor details that'll ensure that happens but other players (who were ignoring right) aren't adversely affected.
They need to stop catering to Forced Group Content. I will never do Mythic+ or Raids because I won't pug it and I don't want to be in a Guild. Delves should also have 15 Tiers and they should have the same lvl of rewards/challenge as Keystones. Soloing Delves is MUCH more enjoyable than LFR, Mythic+, or Random Dungeons Queuing. Why? Because there is no Toxicity due to the non-existence of other players during the content. Its all about how good you are and there is no one to blame for failure but yourself. When you overcome the challenge you feel good about your accomplishment.
True, I had a hard time doing zekvir hard mode, but i wanted to solo it for the achievement and mount skin. After 100+ attempts i was finally able to do it and it felt like killing mythic raid boss because thats basically the pinnacle of solo content right now. I also got every achievement and reward that comes from delves simply because i dont have to deal with toxic players and i can progress on my own. Also the existence of solo rbg and solo arena is great because u can choose what type of content u want to play and do it solo. I personally like bg's and have done a lot of them and also world pvp. All of my friends stopped playing the game long time ago, so if I had been forced to play with random players, I would have quit the game once again as well.
Honestly, the toxicity in m+ and raiding is getting out of hand that blizzard seems to handle poorly due to people leaving on the first wipe and the groups not willing to correlate. I find delves more enjoyable to just do solo without the headaches
agree, and the flexibility of group size as well is amazing, I can do 11s with my oldest wow mate and we get the same happy as mplus challenge used to give but we dont need to deal with toxic when we just want to chill and challenge ourselves
To be more precise, you can only open 4 bountiful coffers per day - assuming you have the keys. You can run many more (bountiful) delves per day for vault
@@gregorycafiero9688 is it every run? or every run you open the bountiful chest? can't remember off the top of my head. But regardless 2 crests is a joke. even if it takes 5 minutes to slam through.
So currently, if you fill out at least three boxes in the Great Vault (Raids, Dungeons, World) you can choose up to six tokens of Merit instead of a piece of gear. Those tokens can be used to get 90 Carved crests or 45 Runed Crests. Why not also have the option to say, get 15 Guilded crests? You still need to acquire the appropriate level gear to be able to use the crests as well as Valorstones.
Uncertain. I know I'd use merits to buy gilded instead of runed which counts towards the season cap, and also trade in runed for gilded once I graduate. I'd sort of double dip and maybe they don't like that?
@@SoulSoBreezy Well Blizzard has certainly kept the highest tier crests off the menu for merit purchases. I just wonder given that Blizzard is now giving everyone a shot at Hero gear and making the highest tier crests obtainable in every pillar of content, as well as lowering the crest exchange rate, are their prior reasons still valid at this point?
I'm surprised you didn't consider the fact that when you see delve only players have a cap that's less than everyone else, they're going to be feeling left out. Why should we even propose this idea that delve only players should get less rewards for what they're doing? That just shows that they are inferior players and we should not even consider that at all. It should be the same cap for everyone regardless of what they are doing.
You have to consider risk vs reward. Delves are easy content in comparison to raiding and M+. If the rewards are made to be the same, the difficulty of delves need to be brought up to match.
@@williamcolgin1987Run a 10 or 11 on a non tank class that doesn't autoheal from attacks. As gilded would only come from 11, it is actually harder than M+.
@@williamcolgin1987 the difficulty is already high when you solo play plus there is a lives limit. If this is going to run parallel to m+ and taiding then it should have equivalent reward. Im not an elitist whos gonna get butthurt by solo players getting the same rewards i have from group content.
Depends on how you frame it. You know I'm not a very cynical person and I accept there are rewards I won't get access to like gladiator gear or cutting edge titles. But I don't feel left out of those things cause I don't do em. Personally even if I ran only delves I know I wouldn't have that feeling of being left out because....what am I feeling left out of? Tier 11s are right there for me to do. Regardless of gilded income I can keep climbing. If I happened to gear slower, I won't notice the limit because of the hero gear and spark income. And later season caps will be lifted anyway. I'll illustrate some of these theoretical models and share my findings. And ill point out gilded from rng was pretty crap. But I won't gaslight people into thinking they're being left out. Youre not wrong for feeling that way but it's up to the viewer to decide. Once the ptr is up and we have facts and findings to share, I'll be back to talk about it.
@SoulSoBreezy I'm not saying you specifically, just the player base in general. The perception of a player is seeing that they get half the rewards for doing their version of a high-end content versus Mythic plus players and raiders gives the perception that blizzard still does not care about non-competitive players. That's my main point of not even proposing a limit on delves and just make it a base cap for gilded crest regardless of what content you're doing
I started treating WoW just like MMOs that have horizontal gear progression, and it's been so much better. Once you jump off the gear treadmill, you can focus on all the other fun aspects.
Yes! Best move I ever made was taking a six month break from playing WoW to play Guild Wars 2. Came back to WoW with a totally different playstyle and it’s been 90% more fun.
I've basically played that way for ages. Been over raiding since Cataclysm, I just don't enjoy trying to do wacky mechanics for 10 - 15 minutes at a time without fucking up. Mythic+ has never been for me, although I haven't tried the current version. PVP is pointless for me to try because I'll never get anything good from it. So I just casually enjoy leveling alts and farming mounts, pets, transmog, and toys.
we can get Gilded, but at the current rate of 2-3 Crests per Delve, that's gonna mean 30-45 Tier 11s just to get the Gilded Crafting Crest for ONE Gear Piece. they need to increase the # of Crests that drop in a Delve to AT LEAST 5, that would knock it down to 18 for a Piece of Gilded Gear. though tbh i'd rather that they buff it to 10, matching it ALMOST with M+ Crest acquisition.
Depending on how this goes were gonna see strats for speed running the "easiest" delve, the best delve to grind out when it appears, meta comps for fast group clears, omg tanks op for gilded farming etc. Lots more we can talk about but I'll wait till ptr.
As the gearing discussion continues, I feel it should be pointed out that delve people aren't the ones trying to gatekeep rewards. I hope the notion of 'undeserved rewards' goes away when they see how difficult tier 11 will be.
every single time I take an mplus only player into a 10 delve we have lost all our lives. They have no clue how to cc multiple targets at once or how to slow pull or use half their kits, they just go burrrrr hit things fast and wipe us every time lol
@@silasrobertshaw8122 I do them because I like pain, and I wanted those titles. High explorer is about right for my season one on medical weed and the immortal one just sounds rude so I had to have it lmao
I love Delves. Also love the idea as in Retal you can be a solo player in an online world. You do not want play alone today ? you have the options ! You want to be more competetive with other players ? you have the options. You want to be PVP ? you have the options ! The beauty of Retail as every type of player found their own way in the game.
I would like to see an upgrade path from Hero to Myth. Something like require a 6/6 Hero piece and cost 15-30 Gilded Crests to make that piece 1/6 Myth. That would benefit everyone who maybe got that rare piece but at a lower upgrade track and the fully solo player who would want to put in the time to grind it out.
That would mean well over a hundred crests per slot which is pretty insane imo (currently it's 75). I'm all for accessibility but your suggestion isn't so different from the current crest income which is super super grindy. Accessibility doesn't mean much if people just don't have that kind of time to grind.
Ok... so handicap one playstyle by saying you can only get 30 while other playstyles can get all 90 with their chosen playstyle. I get it. I was once in the only raiders get the good loot, screw the group type idea. But... perhaps old age, perhaps changing with the times, but I don't see the big deal in delvers getting the same as raiders/key people. Make it somewhat equivalent difficulty to get the same loot. (Don't know how you quantify dealing with others issues.) Put some big disadvantage on if you are in a delve in a tank spec... (sorry tanks, but you have a much easier time in delves then dps/heals). But make them equal. Want to slap a 30 per week on delvers? Why not do the same to raiders and key pushers? Oh you want more? Go do something you might not like doing. One of the biggest hold outs is people worried about how it makes them look. I'm awesome because I did X to get my phat loot. Grow a real sack? dunno.
From the very beginning, Blizz should have made all levels of dungeons and raids including Mythic, available through LFG, contingent on gear score, xp and some simple training runs where you run through the instance with an NPC explaining the mechanics "Don't stand there, stand HERE" etc. Because all players pay the same $$$ and have a reasonable expectation to access endgame content. Imagine if the rest of the business community were ran like this where everyone paid the same $$$ for a Tesla, but Musk only gave access to high end features to a small handful of elitists who actually may not be elite since Mythic access is more political than anything else.
I believe that the majority of people who really enjoy Delves are not the same people who do Mythic+ nor do they care to do Mythic+. I am one of those people. I love to raid, do delves, but I have zero interest in the current way Mythic+ is functioning. Why should Delves be somehow nerfed when it comes to crests in comparison to Mythic+? High level Delves should be rewarding and a viable way to gear up. Now, people who do Delves are still forced to do Mythic+ too if they want to get their gear maxed out in a reasonable amount of time.
Don't see a problem with delves giving full gear, even myth vault... I do Mythic raiding. So it's really no problem to me... The people who actually like M+ aren't about the crests or the myth track gear, it's about the rating, pushing keys... I also don't do Mythic raiding for the Myth gear either, I wouldn't mind if mythic didn't even give actual gear, the difficulty curve would be much smoother and nicer without mythic gear at all and it would be about your skill a lot more than getting your mythic gear and the rewards could be vanity, titles and such... I actually find doing tier 11 with my husband much harder than any 10 key I've been in, so please... Give it myth track and gilded and let me never ever have to touch M+... M+ people trust me, you don't want me playing your content, I am mostly just in a bad mood while doing it cause I feel forced in to doing it, not doing it cause I want to... I refuse to look up mechanics or caring about knowing what to interrupt... And even with that, I still do +10s easy... And tier 11 is same difficulty for me, but I actually have fun and I think that's what games should be.. Play what you have fun playing and get everything that you need from the content that you enjoy playing... I would never ever gatekeep gear, everyone even the open world only guy wants to solo all the stuff in the world like I can and I see no damn problem in letting him if he puts in the time with his world quests and what not... It doesn't matter to me at all... A perfect world to me is no different gear levels at all, just get gear from normal and that's it and difficulty settings is just that... A difficulty challenge with no gear upgrades.... But that's just me.
Bottom line...we ALL pay the same amount to play this game...whether we are mythic + raiders or solo players...we should ALL have access to the highest gear levels
That's exactly what I have felt, you've become a massive elitest over delves. Why should we be foreced into mythic+ to upgarade our gear? I haven't done mythic plus since they were called challenge mode in mop. In mop I had a guild, i raided and challenge mode was accessable. Now Mythic+ on a hunter not at all accessable. I can't get a group. I'm not even going to try anymore, and nothing they can do other than a solo que will get me into mythic +.
I would ideally like to see every endgame track reward the same level gear, and let people decide what they want to do based on what’s the most fun and/or gives the desired challenge. Unfortunately for many, their identity is wrapped up in how strong their gear is, and for many others, they will optimize the fun out of it.
As someone who's become an almost pure solo player, I agree solo progression should be slower, MUCH slower than group play, but making progression beyond a certain point a "practical impossibility" is ridicules. The Map Nerf completely killed Gilded Crest acquisition and although dropping the trade up cost helped a lot, only the absolute most dedicated solo players can fully gear that way within a season. The only argument for keeping Gilded crests completely out of reach of solo players is because the M+ scene has become SO overwhelmingly toxic and hateful, that Gilded crests are the ONLY carrot on the stick left to drive people into your group so you can rage at and belittle them till they can't take it anymore. It's not about the Crests or the gear, it's people being threatened that they won't have an iron grip on progression anymore and will have to start acting like reasonable human beings or their M+ group will be empty.
hard disagree. Doing stuff solo is actually harder than leaning on a tank to hold aggro and a healer to pick you back up. Takes less coordination and communication sure. But those things are not really a game skill and shouldn't have in game rewards attached to them. Eg. Zekvir ?? must be done solo for the achieve. because a tank and healer (and 2-3 kicks) would trivialize the content. We just THINK that group stuff is harder because it's literally larger health pools and more damage incoming, But our group composition is designed to make those things almost not matter. (I basically just explained the entire premise of a dungeon, sorry). But thats also actually the point. If you can do a +10 in a group and you get 15 crests, Why can't someone do something else of equal difficulty, solo, and get that too. Your rewards shouldn't have anything to do with how many mates you had along with you. It should be similar rewards if you are playing at the similar level.
@ElCapitanGames I completely agree there's no good logic behind completely cutting off someone's ability to progress unless they're willing to deal with the nightmare of pugging M+ and M raids. People will tell you, "Do guild runs then!", but modern wow guilds all have their little social cliques and people to kiss up to for a a slot just as well. The only reason Blizz holds back isn't because top level solo stuff is somehow _more_ trivial than group content, it's because M+ and M raid people would totally revolt and unsub.
its already happening, I have seen a dozen "delves are the problem" or "why isnt anyone pugging why cant mplus groups fill, nerf delve gear prog" vids but not one that says "hey guys, why did all the heals and tanks leave pugging mplus, are we the problem? Could it be that we sit in look for group lists for hours because no one wants to run with us anymore?"
I really love the delve system I can sort my run how I want to. Nothing toxic but the boss if I fail I can blame me. I can learn from that fail. I can remember when mythic plus came out and Raiders were ticked off. We just roll with it. Let me play my way, delves. And they can play there way. I look at it this way, if I want something from the raid I go raid I come prepared now not just an under-geared mess.
14:06 Exactly! is if i was getting mad because pvp players have better gear in pvp. Its childshit. I rather see people gearing this way than going away. We don't need less people in the game. Just add different ways of progressing and let people be!
If they come from bountifuls its a functional limit. Say 1 crest from any 11 and 10 from Guilded (average) So while no HARD limit would exist it would soft limit to roughly 50-60ish a week. Which would be WAY less efficient than raiding or mythics. (as it should be imo)
@@shawnc292 there is a lot of ifs in your statement. The only thing most people agree with, is that m+ should reward them faster than delves. However, i disagree it should be abysmally slow- like some people seem to hope.
@@kantace5198 agreed, Casuals have Alts after all, we're not out to see how many Keys we can do, we technically cant even get Tier anymore unless we're lucky and in S1 i only got 2 Tier Set pieces from Vault, it's unlikely that we Casuals will be getting Tier Sets in S2, so why restrain us on Crests much?
Allowing other people to earn gear/crests isn't the end of the world. I really don't understand this mentality. I don't solo play or even do delves, but idc if that's how people want to approach the gearing process. It doesn't affect me nor you - and I honestly have not heard anyone complaining about this. Maybe delves are more fun for someone; Maybe M+ is, or raiding? Let people decide.
Love the TLDW at the end! Gonna watch the full video later today on lunch but it's really nice to have a quick summary on changes before heading into work.
As a former high end raider, but now delve only player, I wouldnt mind a cap at half the weekly. Delves are stupidly easy with 5 people. I do them solo for more of a challenge, but i still run them with my friends on my alts. I never thought about doing tons of crsfted gear with crests, but with the change that a definite option now, and my alt is an armorsmith. With Souls proposed system, the 7 IL difference is significant enough for the differentiation between mythic raiders and me i think. I dont know about y'all who are delve only people, but on my ret pally at 620 T11 with lives left is near impossible. I was getting wrecked by the trash mobs. Though i am sure now someone will tell me T11 is a walk in the park. My only change to Souls proposal would be 45 per week instead of 30. I have issues with the keys and bounty system, but thats a different discussion i think.
I'm a demo lock main at 620, I wouldn't say t11 solo is easy, just doable. I finally got my Immortal Spelunker achievement a few days ago, a Christmas miracle, lol. When I decide that I want to do an 11 solo I have to make sure to carve out about an hour of my playtime to be able to get it done.
Hi, healer and tank main here. We didnt leave for delves because of bad gameplay, its not the first season where its sucked to heal. we left because pugging mplus as heal or tank sucks with how rude people are, and the moment we had content we could do without putting up with that we quit en masse
just make it so that the crests you earn are connected with the reward you pick from the great vault. With this you cant spam farm crests from multiple play styles anymore and its done. You pick a reward on the reset and you get the crests with it from the work you did the week before.
Having to wait the whole week to mess with upgrades would feel really odd. Like I'd be considering not just the crests I'm getting for current upgrades but new gear I might get from the vault I have to somehow anticipate. Yeah the feeling of feeling I'm getting an incremental upgrade each day would feel lost.
In my mind if you allow easier access to gilded crest and thus mythic gear you can make mythic gear cooler, and then make the reason you raid and do mythic plus other things. ie a raid renown track (which you can get from raid finder). but still you can encourage raiding without making gilded crests the main incentive, and i think the renown track is kinda on the right path
As a day 1 player and ex-raider hearing that ppl might be crying over weather they can get this ilvl or that the others guys able to get that ilvl makes me realize how childish it all is.
Okay great gilded crests, yay! Or yay? My biggest problem isn’t crests. It’s more flight stones. I feel like there isn’t a quick way to get those. Few from quests and weekly/daily quests/events. Dungeons. Delves. But those take longer to complete. Need more daily outdoor activities that are quick to farm. Also should be awarded from those little floating mote things you can get while flying. Also make them transferrable!
I've observed the complailnt to sum up to a "feast or famine" kind of relationship with valorstones so at worst, a nuisance. But at least everyone has access to those.
Scale the guild crests in the delves 9,10,11. Personally, I can do a delve 9, struggle a lot on a 10 and haven't been able to do an 11 yet; help me get my power so I can do some of this advanced delve activity. (We're all not "elites"), and some of us (me included) don't have the ability to reach elite, as a player.
First mythic plus I ran with a guildie and myself last week after being talked into it, the group left after first death and lowered poor dudes key. No one was happy. Solidified my view on not wanting to do it anymore.
Knowing tank Brann will be a thing makes me wonder, but hard to give a take without some hands on testing. I wanna know if a class with decent dps and strong off healing would be TOO effective and make those classes way too good at clearing 11s. Broadly, solo content simply can't be balanced.
@@SoulSoBreezy agreed, but i think what we ALL can agree upon is that 2-3 Crests per Delve is way too slow. it doesnt have to be AS fast, but the notion that you have to group for Crests is dogshit. M+ Players just want to push keys and they'll continue to get held back by us Casuals because we're only there for the Crest drops.
Brann will die in 11s. He was made so healers can have a tank to do delves with... A dps shouldnt just have a tank that survives everything in an 11 for them to just burst and win.
If the delves only give a third of the weekly cap as in your example, then it would be fair that m+s would also only supply a third, and the mythic raid the final portion. If making people play other game styles is considered, then it should be across the board.
You're actually suggesting keys don't award myth track gear, which i would disagree with. Don't gaslight yourself into thinking this is a question about comparing difficulties. It's about how many crests these game modes actually use before caps are lifted
I do, do high end content and I still feel that everyone should be able to progress to max gear for that season regardless of your content. The only thing that should effect it is the rate at which you acquire it. Also why personally I think all gear should do x/14 or whatever like it did in season 4 so once you get that item you can upgrade it given enough time. Effort and time are related in my mine regardless if you are doing cutting edge raiding or just want to endless spam out delves or world current. Sure those lower levels of content don't need the gear but it always feels good to know you could be progressing and not just cock blocked.
S4 still required crests from the appropriate difficulty. You're suggesting the same gear drops regardless of difficulty which is a separate but possibly fun conversation to have
Based on my recent experiences I would probably go for M+ in season 2 instead of Delves. With a nice group a M+ runs take 20 minutes for 12 gilded crests. If I get 2 gilded crests per Delve on Delve 11, I would need to do 6 Delves to get the same number of crests. In this situation I would do M+ for sure for two reasons. Delves will get boring much quicker than M+ as I have to grind the same content much more often. Furthermore M+ will give me more satisfying direct loot. I’m not going to do 23 Delves for one crafted mythic item. Especially because I play on multiple characters.
When mythic + started in legion, mythic + gear should have only upgraded INSIDE of the mythic+ dungeon. Not scale out on the world of azeroth. It made the ilvl range waaaaaay to wonky to balance. If I remember, there was a stat squish near the end of legion because damage numbers were like hundreds of millions in number. If you keep the gear only upgrading in its specific content, the world ilvl doesn't get so skewed. If they did it like I suggested then they could still have mythic raid highest, then heroic raid, then mythic+, then normal raid, then heroic dungeon gear and so on. So full mythic+ gear would be a good start to heroic raid or something like that. They also shouldn't have so many modes. Mythic raid, heroic raid, normal raid, LFR raid. If you do progression only inside of the mode, it saves ALL ilvls from getting left behind so badly.
If we go by this logic then mythic + earned crests should also be limited below the amount that can be earned by raiding, because dungeons are lesser content than raids. For example: Raid cap 90 / week M+ cap 60 / week Delve cap 30 / week Maximum weekly cap 100 - 120. (Btw i used to raid and did some m+ aswell but now completely burned out of those and became a delve player so i'd like to see less and less distance between rewards.)
No, the logic behind delve caps is that delves don't give myth track gear that warrants farming so much gilded. It has nothing to do with what we think is "lesser content"
I think delves should give increasingly higher rewards for higher difficulty. Right now there is zero reason to go above tier 8 and tier 8 have become fairly easy to beat now.
Rather do delves. Than having to do mythic plus. Make it the same as mythic. Everyone should mention it as feedback to blizzard that cap is cap no limit or forced group content if you dont want to. Blizzard should also provide enough gilded or any of the currency within 8 runs not having to run 20 to cap.
I have been stuck at max item level for me for about two months now. Can't get gilded and upgrade because i don't want to do m+ and doing heroic palace does not give anything more either.
i think blizz need to rethink the whole gearing thing now that they have a variety of different "end game" activities. Getting high level gear should be consistent across all end game activities and then you have the choice of how to get them. So cap the ilvls to things like delve 10s, +10 keys, rating 2000 in pvp and clearing heroic raids. That gives you the ilvl stuff which will enable you to progress to the higher levels if you so choose and then just give really cool cosmetic and/or unique rewards. If you only care about ilvl - you get let out of jail earlier to do whatever you like: level an alt, go farm mogs/mounts/pets/whatever or just unsub and play a different game. If you want to do higher level content it's because you want the challenge or the actual prestige or bragging rights to say that you did it. This way you would reduce the toxic thoughts out of the systems where X is better than Y because it gets the higher ilvl gear. There will always be the "this game mode is better than that one because reasons" but at least it becomes more personal choice rather than chasing ilvls (which when you get past a certain point don't matter really anyway). If you wanna do the higher level stuff to prove you're a better gamer - go for it. If you don't have enough time in your week but want to max out your ilvl so that you can try higher level stuff when you get extra time - this system should allow you to do that.
As a solo player, I would rather raid/mythic be the easier option for gearing but then also having the same potentially to reach the same ilvl just with a little more effort/time Id like if delves got a bit harder, once I was able to do t8 they got easy really fast, most deaths was from just pulling multiple packs of mobs by choice. id have liked more reasons to do higher tiers beyond achivements.
I think it should be easy for everyone outside of the hardcore players who do high keys and mythic raiding to be able to have access to the resource for upgrading gear to the highest level like them. but not everyone should have access to mythic raiding gear because then it wouldn't be no variation in wow content if everyone able to attain the same loot as hardcore keys pusher and mythic raiders. they should keep the gap between casual and normal players and high keys players and mythic raiders go. at the same time still offer a way for everyone to at least gain access to the same resources to upgrade gear. such as in delves maybe offer some ways to attain glided crest to upgrade gear maybe by small amount compared to mythic raiders and high keys players. if not then you have players whining and complaining there no chase or incentive to chase anything because everyone have access to the same gear or loot. so no don't let everyone have access to the same loot as high-end players beside the resources goes by a small amount. also, I'm a normal player who doesn't push keys or mythic raid, I like the chase and progression for myself to keep getting better. my own personal opinion.
I'll just say if a player forces themselves into delves if they do not enjoy them, they deserve to be bored. We need to stop worrying about how the insane will ruin themselves and their own fun. Let the other 95% use it like a normal person
Regardless of play style (I'm a solo Delver myself), getting angry with fellow players because they had an idea that doesn't strike somebody as ideal is just crummy. I'm not new to the Internet or anything, I just dislike it when a content creator (or anybody else) feels the need to apologize for their opinion or idea about some aspect of game design.
My opinion is “who cares which way is faster”. The people gearing in delves to start will have a better chance of getting into groups with a higher item level The problem isn’t with delves or with mythic plus. The problem is the player base because of all the gatekeeping. Delves wouldn’t be the path of least resistance if mythic plus players stopped inviting solely based on item level. Personally, I think WoW devs should completely remove the players ability to see a players item level. Instead, they should update the group finder to set a recommended item level range for each mythic plus variant, and only allow players within that range to apply for a group for a particular dungeon. This way, the group creator will only have to focus on inviting the class or player. Additionally, players won’t have to waste a bunch of time applying for groups, and constantly getting denied. The result will be more traffic through group finder, and a lot less down time.
They should just make it equal reward wise. Players shouldnt be punished for wanting to go solo. Blizz themself see a huge % of their players are solo players so they added delves to gear up. Simple solution to this is give M+ best in slot rings and neck. And mythic raid gets the bis weapons and trinkets. DELVES gets the same ilvl as M+ and raid. But they dont get BIS items. Boom we have a power difrence and everyone can be happy. Also gonna point out that majority of delvers are altoholics so only thing that will happen when they get the best ilvl gear.. they will just log a new character and gear that one. Meaning in no shape or form will the majority of delvers come and take the M+ player's spot. Or the raider's spot. Simply because they have no interest in that spot.
My prediction: With tier 11 delves having a reward beyond a one time achievement, people will quickly become frustrated with the nature of that content because it highlights the inconsistency in difficulty that delves can have across many classes as well as for how it can play out with certain encounters. When I did my first 11 delve, I had to reroll the delve a couple times because one of the mini-bosses had a poison that I just couldn't deal with on that character.
Yes, the recommended gear level for Tier 11 Delves in season 1 was Mythic level. It was not realistic to expect every class/spec to do tier 11 Delves by just using the gear and crests obtained by doing Delves alone. Hopefully in season 2, it will be more realistic to get through all eleven tiers of Delves using just the gear and crests you earn when doing Delves.
One extra comment. Mythic raiding is harder than anything else people do in wow. Just heroic raiding is pretty bonkers. I dont mind people doing that having higher level gear than me. That gap just needs to be smaller. As it is right now, T11 delves arent even technically difficult for the most part. The mobs just hit super hard and you have a life limit.
As a solo player what i found delves are ok and fun , but the gear that drop is not fun or good , for example all the time drop the same trinkets and if drops other gear like helmets or whatever there uselles because all of us we have tiers now , it will be nice if the delves drop gear with some special bonus or abilittys to help us for delves and outside the word like tier but specific for this . .
I say that for months now. 5 Crest per T8 Delve. I would guess most "normal" players need 10-15 Minutes, depending on the Delve, version and ilvl, to finish one. That would mean you get one upgrade every hour. The datamining shows you get gilded crests with Tier11 and Tier8+ Maps. If a Tier 11 just give 2 crest they can keep it because it would be the same brainless grind. M+ currently gives 5 Crest for a non timed and 12 for a timed iirc. A Tier 11 Delve should give 8 Crests if you consider difficulty, playerskill requierment and ilvl you need so you need only 2 Tier 11 Delves to get an upgrade and Tier9 should give 6 and Tier10 7 runed crests. Maps would start at Tier8 and would always give 10 Crests. From my personal experience i would say i get one T8 Map for every 6-8 Delves. So you could even farm gilded crest when you are not good enough for t9+ but would take much more time. For sure it would never happen but i think its a fair solution to give Solo players more progress and a goal.
I'm pretty sure they did something like this before but in PvP with conquest points... You can only get so many conquests doing battlegrounds in a week .. compared to people who are doing arenas if I remember correctly
I was a hardcore raider back in the day but all those friends have moved on and I do not like the Mythic scene at all dungeons or raids. I don't care about the dungeon or raid players let them have their fun how they like it and let the solo or small group players have fun the way they want because we all pay for the game and no one's fun is more important than another's so I do not see any issue with delves becoming more protonate in the gearing scene because blizzard will still make their money and I bet they will make more because of the less toxic and hassle delves are compared to the others. I would like to see the numbers on the amount of solo or small group players vs mythic+/Mythic raiding....whoever the larger group is should be a main focus but still make sure the rest are taken care of.
Why is this a thing? A game should be about having fun on your own time. I have 2 kids and I'd love to raid but i simply cannot promise my presence on any specific day. So Delves are all i've got. I used to LFR and thats about all i would be able to do and it kinda sucked. I am challenged and feel like im not lagging too far behind. Also a great way to do things if you do not play a meta spec. Waiting for hours to do a key simply cuz you would rather play a spec you like is just dumb. Delves are all good for all the right reasons and mythic people can do their mythics if thats what they wanna do.
There is no way they allow more than just a few gilded crests a week. 10 or 15 tops. They have been stingy with runed crests in season 1, I doubt they will be generous with a higher tier
Maybe they should give delve gear the pvp gear treatment and make it have a ilvl boost while only in delves. I just don't want the content I can access solo get nerfed because mythic plus/raider people abuse it.
Having Brann capped during season 1 was annoying. And then they slowly increased the cap a little every week. Also annoying. Thumbs up for great videos.
I dont expect delves will provide a lot of gilded. They already don't give out a lot of crests per run as it is. My guess is the gilded that drop from delves will be doing so, so delvers aren't stuck at 4/6 H upgrades and a path to max level crafted pieces.
I won't be surprised to see the crest income scale similarly to keys, where they drop more runed the higher tier you go until 11, when we get X number of gilded. The question is whether they'll give a low amount and we grind our faces in, or have this separate cap but higher drop rate.
I straight delve on some alts, so if they're going to keep it where there is no access to mythic track gear (not add access via vault), then my straight delving alts wouldn't need near as many guilded as my main for their gear. I don't think a delve cap would really impact straight delvers. Plus gives raid/+ers an alternative avenue to supplement their weekly gilded.
@@SoulSoBreezy Looks like they're going even stingier...18 a week from delves. 3 weeks to save up for a crafted piece and making no other upgrades. Ouch.
people keep talking about guilded crests from delves. You get two crests from delves as it is now. If that continues and you get two crests from 11s.....
why do you need more ? its 8 per day x 6 which is 48 excluding maybe the map that gives more , which you still need to do some m+ , like 3 timed keys to max out the week , they said in their delve announcement that they wanna make m+ still the best endgame content.
@@sharkstaint1373 then they will continue to have more and more people leave and the rest of you sit in lists waiting for groups longer and longer. Why do you care what a delver needs anyway? Will my gear effect your sub?
@@ericmats4662 4 bounty delves gives you 2 as you said , so it should be 2 x4 which is 8 per day , unless they buff it , which i assume they wont since its free gear on delves.
@@LizzieLeish calm down , your getting mad over a comment , like they take feedback from youtube comments , why do you need upgraded maxed out gear ? explain me this , you character concept is to get stronger and clear harder content , delves are not harder content , you can solo them , plus you get tank bran now , if you give too much crests on delves , people will not bother to do m+ keys that much for crest farm , means less players available on +8 range keys , you got a brain tho , you should understand why they give you 2 crests per delve , they didn't make the number "2" cause its small , its to make m+ the king of endgame , you will have to do it.
Slowly, Bliz has learned there is more than one way to play their game, and addressing the slighting those other playstyles have suffered for decades. To piss on any other playstyle is the definition of elitist, so if you are doing it, you are an elite snob, if you are doing it, own it.
I play wow solo for the most part and have been using delves as my main source of gear since they became available on my main tank and a couple alts, they are not "that" easy when you get up past level 8 they are like doing a heroic dungeon or mini raid by yourself. So to see that the gear level stops increasing past 603 after you hit 8 is a deterrent for me to bother going to level 11 since the reward isn't any better, To be given a better reward would be incentive to go higher. Their is no reason to be bothered by people getting gear any way they choose to everyone has a choice and who is anyone to look badly upon someone else because they didn't get their gear by raiding or doing mythic + its all about jealousy when it doesn't have to be.
The problem with the current system was hitting that point where there was no where to go without a truly monotonous grind. Champion and Hero track both stop at 619 if you are only getting runed crests. So once every slot has champion or hero there isn't really a big need to keep pushing. I have a main I do all content on and alts I was just doing delves on. If I am playing an alt I don't want to sit in queues, I just want to goof off. I have a Blood DK alt I enjoy playing, but am not great on and wouldn't push keys on. I did delves on this character and had a blast, but I stopped playing my DK because I capped out months ago. I had all champion and some heroic pieces from my vault, but it wasn't worth doing 8 delves to for a heroic piece because I wasn't going to get it past 619 anyways. The path forward would be to go into high keys I wasn't qualified to tank, even with the changes no one wants me tanking an 8 on my DK, including me. To keep playing delves, I'd be stuck turning my vault into runed crests and every other week turn that into 15 gilded crests. Even now with the reduced costs it's just not worth the effort. With gilded in delves I'd have played a lot longer. I could have maxed out heroic gear, chased some mythic crafted pieces, I wouldn't have been done for months.
The only people who complain about delvers getting hero gear and gilded crests are mythic players because they want to think they're elite and they want to hoard the best stuff for themselves. It shouldn't matter to them what gear anyone has who isn't in a group with them. Allowing delves to reward better gear should be a good thing, as they can get geared faster by having two tracks in which to do it. Are they worried about "shit players" getting good gear from delves and sneaking into their high keys and bricking the keys? There's an easy solution: make everyone put in a key in each mythic run, and have everyone's key increase/decrease. Then you'll know if someone has mythic experience in addition to a high iLevel.
i might be a sadist but I run mythic because I enjoy it, not for gear or rating. I like to challenge myself to learn new classes or specs and play them up to a high level. the gear is just securing future transmogs and earning reward mounts. getting seasonal gear that is only useful for 5 to 6 months should never be the goals
Considering how painful keys are nowadays, slowing down solo players shouldn’t be the goal. Also if you can’t do +8s or mythic raiding at least with better solo rewards you could max out hero track gear for starters?
Why “gear,” if you have no desire to kill end game bosses. They would have to make more Zekvir style encounters. Would be an odd way to write a story. We all gear up to kill the bad guy. So far there are no bad guys in a delve. Change that and make the delve hard. People will be happy I would think.
love solo content like delves but not when it forces you to have to play a spec you dont want to. Main a resto druid and hate having to switch to tank just to finish a delve. So only do delves when the blue quest for completing 5 is active. Then i just run 5 quick 1's and move on.
Soul first let me say love your content. My background is I do some pluses (never higher than 10) and some heroic raids.And in the past I've done some mythic raiding. I dont think that delves will give the same amount of crests as +s or raids, because they dont today. A successful 8 gives you 2 runed crests. Even if they double it (which most folks would appreciate) that would still be 4. And you only get them from bountiful delves so at most you can make 16 a day if they double it. You typically can get to 7-8 bountiful a week, and thats your built in cap. There are of course some unknowns in S2 including: - Will you still be able to buy keys for bountiful with you current rep or is there some new rep you'll need to do so? I'd bet a new rep as I have a crap ton of coffer key shards and undercoat, if they don't make a new currency/rep requirement, I can hit 90 gilded a week for 2-3 weeks consecutively. - How hard are 11s going to be? Right now 11s are very difficult delves if you are not a tank. Healers and cloths dps can not solo them. Heck I've seen groups fail in them because those named mobs are BRUTAL. If 11s are as difficult as they are right now will be super challenging to get your hands on those gilded crests. - Delves still need work. I don't claim to be the worlds greatest player but I'm KSM, I've got AOTC and as a 632 Shadow Priest there are still T8 delves I can not solo.
As a shadow priset myself I can pretty easily do t8, but mindcontrole is needed to compete t11s and splitting/sniping mobs is needed.. though some end bosses I can’t do because of the raw damage I have to medigate For t8 my advice is MC a powerful mop and take it slow if you have a hard time 🫡
@@LærkeJensen-g4p The one that sticks out in my mind, well the couple are there is one where the final group is three mobs, that one is a problem for me because I can't MC them. The other is the mine one where the final boss has a ton of movement. Like every one of them the dungeon itself isn't so hard, but the final bosses are more work than 2 runed crests is worth.
Had multiple pieces of Myth gear at the end of Dragonflight, I had all Hero Gear by like the sixth week through delves only in TWW, as of right now my hero gear still isnt leveled all the way and I dont have a single peice of Myth gear and probably still wont by the end of the patch. W o n k y.
It hurts no one to allow solo players and casuals the opportunity to get good gear. My guild is an AOTC guild only. We are casual with a mix of players. Some are very good players and some are very bad. The better players carry our weaker players. Our weaker players can not run higher mythic plus. Being able to gear our weaker players gives them more stamina to help them survive better in raid and maybe even out DPS our tanks. As for me (an average player), I am burned out of mythic plus and have only done a few this season to help out some guildies with breaking the meta. I am at a point where I’m out geared by the other healers and only have raid trinkets (which this season most raid heal trinkets are not as good as M+ trinkets). It feels bad to be behind gear wise, but it’s not worth running M+ to me. I would love it if delves could give the highest crest with the proper delve level. Maybe even make a trinket for each role that’s actually decent that drops in delves only.
Not totally related to your video but a general feeling, the "snobby," M+ players used to insult people and tell them to stick to solo content... now that delves allow people to stick to solo content M+ players are whining there aren't enough people in M+ and they have to wait in queue for hours.
Someone explain to me why people who only want to do delves even need mythic lvl gear? Delves can be clearing mindlessly in heroic gear. The point of grinding out mythic gear is to do high lvl mythic content that these people don’t want to do..
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You have to look at why some players solo play. Everyone solos at some point during game play. If not then you are not maximizing your online time. For me, I don’t pay $15 to wait on queues or get shamed by other players. If Blizzard gives me an alternative to getting my high end crests, I’m no longer forced to wait or play with toxic players. This could have a positive impact on the game. I still have a way to upgrade my character and toxic players must learn to chill out, relax and have fun. It’s a game.
Dungeons and raids are toxic. I've been playing since 2005, and when no one knew what they were doing, dungeons were a blast! But in devolved into screaming matches between players. It wasn't fun anymore. That's why I went solo around Cataclysm. I play the main story line, until a dungeon is required to progress. I enjoy the open world fights were players gather to burn down a dragon or something. Like the caves in the Siren Isle are fun. I am hoping in the future they will let solos do dungeons with their warbands.
I do not understand the ideology of impeding one style of play, solo, for some perceived harm it does to another style, group play. If players are “using” delves to earn crests rather than the mythic route, then the issue isn’t delves its why are the other routes so unappealing that people don’t want to use them. There are thousands of videos out about the miserable mythic+ PUG experience, yet people keep insisting on limiting options for people who just want to run challenging solo content as some kind of solution to force people into mythic content.
Just running with the common mentality - the "hardest" content in mmos give the strongest rewards. With or without the cap there's still going to be a roughly 7 item level difference between a solo player and a group player as opposed to the roughly 20 item level difference on average.
We've heard plenty of stories from players who do keys and raids for the experience, not necessarily the rewards. But that journey feels compromised when the gearing doesn't come from their content but by doing something else cause it's easier. Yeah yeah we can say just don't gear from Delves but let's be realistic, that's like telling the no-fly people to just never use their mounts and we don't get anywhere with something so facetious.
And I wouldn't suggest to those people "okay just do harder content" cause we'll have come around this full, ironic circle.
They try to force players to be friendly to elitists.
@@krisofamericabro a +8 isn’t elitist 💀
@@SoulSoBreezy honestly drop the ilvl difference and tell people tp get over it. Let delves reward equivalent gear to the other ways to get gear and lets move on.
@@SoulSoBreezy why should a mythic raid be considered harder than a mythically tuned delve? If the challenge for a given player is exactly the same (same dps, same healing, same mecanics, same time spent, same "lock out" system) then why should there be a difference in item level reward? The only difference between both is the social interaction which has nothing to do with the game content itself. The reason I stopped playing in a guild is because there was too much hassel and drama every week in putting the right group together. I'd rather play solo most of the time, and occasionally play with others, for the fun of it. Not the other way around.
Solo player and I see no difference in awarding gilded crests for Delves or Mythic. The solo players doing Delves do so because they don't want the drama and toxicity associated with timed mythic rums. Yes, your guild mythic runs with players you know will probably be just fine, but all of us have seen the multitude of complaints about toxic players when pugging. Some of us have been playing our toons since WOW came out and know our class inside out. What difference is a higher powered solo player going to make to mythic players? We are not there to out do them and we don't give a crap about your IO score.
You should be able to play content you enjoy. At the end of the day the gear only affects world content.
totally... they keep on favoring M+ group content that is not enjoyable to most people...
I love delves. I have had so many bad experiences with dungeons and raids, because I'm not really good at them. Nothing like being screamed at by a kid 1/4 my age because I missed something in a boss fight.
I’m so happy about delves and the fact that the part they have in the game is growing.
I’m a mythic raider and I feel like I have to do 8 or at least 4 m10 a week to keep up gearwise with my guildies and I really don’t find m10’s fun..
I would much rather do 8 t11 delves a week than 4 m10’s to get a chance of mythic tear gear (if they were to add that at some point)
I am a heroic raider and I despise M+ so I geared strictly through delves and raids. It was great until I hit the need for gilded crests. I totally agree they should add some mythic track gear to T11 delves. But in the meantime this will be super helpful as I can finally upgrade my hero track gear all the way up. Being stuck at 4/6 on every slot sucks
My guild only do3s heroic but every season I'm forced to do mythic plus if I want to gi Past the cap. Lol
Ive said it before and I'll say it again. If I can have the equivalent to 636 fully crafted + 626 Hero (vault) Tier set from catalyst by playing solo delves. I'm gquitting, never joining another toxic mythic+ group again, and playing with my small group of IRL friends or solo in delves. It would be absolutely amazing! Turning all chat off. heaven.
I mean...yeah that's what looks like is gonna happen next season. I'm just exploring what I think are minor details that'll ensure that happens but other players (who were ignoring right) aren't adversely affected.
They need to stop catering to Forced Group Content. I will never do Mythic+ or Raids because I won't pug it and I don't want to be in a Guild. Delves should also have 15 Tiers and they should have the same lvl of rewards/challenge as Keystones. Soloing Delves is MUCH more enjoyable than LFR, Mythic+, or Random Dungeons Queuing. Why? Because there is no Toxicity due to the non-existence of other players during the content. Its all about how good you are and there is no one to blame for failure but yourself. When you overcome the challenge you feel good about your accomplishment.
True, I had a hard time doing zekvir hard mode, but i wanted to solo it for the achievement and mount skin. After 100+ attempts i was finally able to do it and it felt like killing mythic raid boss because thats basically the pinnacle of solo content right now. I also got every achievement and reward that comes from delves simply because i dont have to deal with toxic players and i can progress on my own. Also the existence of solo rbg and solo arena is great because u can choose what type of content u want to play and do it solo. I personally like bg's and have done a lot of them and also world pvp. All of my friends stopped playing the game long time ago, so if I had been forced to play with random players, I would have quit the game once again as well.
Honestly, the toxicity in m+ and raiding is getting out of hand that blizzard seems to handle poorly due to people leaving on the first wipe and the groups not willing to correlate. I find delves more enjoyable to just do solo without the headaches
agree, and the flexibility of group size as well is amazing, I can do 11s with my oldest wow mate and we get the same happy as mplus challenge used to give but we dont need to deal with toxic when we just want to chill and challenge ourselves
It’s not going to matter as you’ll be getting 3 gilded crests for each bountiful +11. So maybe 1 or 2 upgrades a week.
We need to consider that you can only run 4 delves per day, whilst you can spam mythical+
To be more precise, you can only open 4 bountiful coffers per day - assuming you have the keys. You can run many more (bountiful) delves per day for vault
@@kantace5198doesn’t only the level of the delve matter to count toward your vault?
@@dnord76yes, that is what I mean. You can run more delves per day than 4
If it's similar to how Runed work currently, you get 2 runed in every run in 8+. Hopefully gilded behave in a similar manner at 11(+?)
@@gregorycafiero9688 is it every run? or every run you open the bountiful chest? can't remember off the top of my head. But regardless 2 crests is a joke. even if it takes 5 minutes to slam through.
So currently, if you fill out at least three boxes in the Great Vault (Raids, Dungeons, World) you can choose up to six tokens of Merit instead of a piece of gear. Those tokens can be used to get 90 Carved crests or 45 Runed Crests. Why not also have the option to say, get 15 Guilded crests? You still need to acquire the appropriate level gear to be able to use the crests as well as Valorstones.
you can chose 45 Runed Crests and with that buy 15 Guilded crests
@@spectre5872 True, but only after you have fully geared out in Champion level gear first.
Uncertain. I know I'd use merits to buy gilded instead of runed which counts towards the season cap, and also trade in runed for gilded once I graduate. I'd sort of double dip and maybe they don't like that?
@@SoulSoBreezy Wait, there's also a season cap for crests? Wtf is this clownery...
@@SoulSoBreezy Well Blizzard has certainly kept the highest tier crests off the menu for merit purchases. I just wonder given that Blizzard is now giving everyone a shot at Hero gear and making the highest tier crests obtainable in every pillar of content, as well as lowering the crest exchange rate, are their prior reasons still valid at this point?
I'm surprised you didn't consider the fact that when you see delve only players have a cap that's less than everyone else, they're going to be feeling left out. Why should we even propose this idea that delve only players should get less rewards for what they're doing? That just shows that they are inferior players and we should not even consider that at all. It should be the same cap for everyone regardless of what they are doing.
You have to consider risk vs reward. Delves are easy content in comparison to raiding and M+. If the rewards are made to be the same, the difficulty of delves need to be brought up to match.
@@williamcolgin1987Run a 10 or 11 on a non tank class that doesn't autoheal from attacks. As gilded would only come from 11, it is actually harder than M+.
@@williamcolgin1987 the difficulty is already high when you solo play plus there is a lives limit. If this is going to run parallel to m+ and taiding then it should have equivalent reward. Im not an elitist whos gonna get butthurt by solo players getting the same rewards i have from group content.
Depends on how you frame it. You know I'm not a very cynical person and I accept there are rewards I won't get access to like gladiator gear or cutting edge titles. But I don't feel left out of those things cause I don't do em.
Personally even if I ran only delves I know I wouldn't have that feeling of being left out because....what am I feeling left out of? Tier 11s are right there for me to do. Regardless of gilded income I can keep climbing. If I happened to gear slower, I won't notice the limit because of the hero gear and spark income. And later season caps will be lifted anyway.
I'll illustrate some of these theoretical models and share my findings. And ill point out gilded from rng was pretty crap. But I won't gaslight people into thinking they're being left out. Youre not wrong for feeling that way but it's up to the viewer to decide.
Once the ptr is up and we have facts and findings to share, I'll be back to talk about it.
@SoulSoBreezy I'm not saying you specifically, just the player base in general. The perception of a player is seeing that they get half the rewards for doing their version of a high-end content versus Mythic plus players and raiders gives the perception that blizzard still does not care about non-competitive players.
That's my main point of not even proposing a limit on delves and just make it a base cap for gilded crest regardless of what content you're doing
I started treating WoW just like MMOs that have horizontal gear progression, and it's been so much better. Once you jump off the gear treadmill, you can focus on all the other fun aspects.
Yes! Best move I ever made was taking a six month break from playing WoW to play Guild Wars 2. Came back to WoW with a totally different playstyle and it’s been 90% more fun.
I've basically played that way for ages. Been over raiding since Cataclysm, I just don't enjoy trying to do wacky mechanics for 10 - 15 minutes at a time without fucking up. Mythic+ has never been for me, although I haven't tried the current version. PVP is pointless for me to try because I'll never get anything good from it. So I just casually enjoy leveling alts and farming mounts, pets, transmog, and toys.
As dirty solo lfr scrub I am happy of these changes. I am able to get mythic transmog by just soloing delves and I am happy for that
we can get Gilded, but at the current rate of 2-3 Crests per Delve, that's gonna mean 30-45 Tier 11s just to get the Gilded Crafting Crest for ONE Gear Piece. they need to increase the # of Crests that drop in a Delve to AT LEAST 5, that would knock it down to 18 for a Piece of Gilded Gear. though tbh i'd rather that they buff it to 10, matching it ALMOST with M+ Crest acquisition.
Depending on how this goes were gonna see strats for speed running the "easiest" delve, the best delve to grind out when it appears, meta comps for fast group clears, omg tanks op for gilded farming etc.
Lots more we can talk about but I'll wait till ptr.
they need to boost it up to like 10 per delve i think thts fair and doesn't feel to bad
@@Dan-iy2nrthats way too much considering a good player clears a delve in around 5 minutes. 2 is absolutly fine
As the gearing discussion continues, I feel it should be pointed out that delve people aren't the ones trying to gatekeep rewards. I hope the notion of 'undeserved rewards' goes away when they see how difficult tier 11 will be.
The people that want top rewards for little effort won’t be around when you want to play the game.
T11 is already near impossible for a solo player, except for the top tier of players.
every single time I take an mplus only player into a 10 delve we have lost all our lives. They have no clue how to cc multiple targets at once or how to slow pull or use half their kits, they just go burrrrr hit things fast and wipe us every time lol
@@silasrobertshaw8122 I do them because I like pain, and I wanted those titles. High explorer is about right for my season one on medical weed and the immortal one just sounds rude so I had to have it lmao
@LizzieLeish I haven't completed a t11 with lives left yet. T10 yes, but an 11 has eluded me so far.
I love Delves. Also love the idea as in Retal you can be a solo player in an online world. You do not want play alone today ? you have the options ! You want to be more competetive with other players ? you have the options. You want to be PVP ? you have the options !
The beauty of Retail as every type of player found their own way in the game.
I would like to see an upgrade path from Hero to Myth. Something like require a 6/6 Hero piece and cost 15-30 Gilded Crests to make that piece 1/6 Myth. That would benefit everyone who maybe got that rare piece but at a lower upgrade track and the fully solo player who would want to put in the time to grind it out.
That would mean well over a hundred crests per slot which is pretty insane imo (currently it's 75).
I'm all for accessibility but your suggestion isn't so different from the current crest income which is super super grindy. Accessibility doesn't mean much if people just don't have that kind of time to grind.
@SoulSoBreezy That's very true. I'm all for making it cheaper, the upgrade path is the important part.
Ok... so handicap one playstyle by saying you can only get 30 while other playstyles can get all 90 with their chosen playstyle.
I get it. I was once in the only raiders get the good loot, screw the group type idea. But... perhaps old age, perhaps changing with the times, but I don't see the big deal in delvers getting the same as raiders/key people. Make it somewhat equivalent difficulty to get the same loot. (Don't know how you quantify dealing with others issues.) Put some big disadvantage on if you are in a delve in a tank spec... (sorry tanks, but you have a much easier time in delves then dps/heals). But make them equal.
Want to slap a 30 per week on delvers? Why not do the same to raiders and key pushers? Oh you want more? Go do something you might not like doing. One of the biggest hold outs is people worried about how it makes them look. I'm awesome because I did X to get my phat loot. Grow a real sack? dunno.
From the very beginning, Blizz should have made all levels of dungeons and raids including Mythic, available through LFG, contingent on gear score, xp and some simple training runs where you run through the instance with an NPC explaining the mechanics "Don't stand there, stand HERE" etc. Because all players pay the same $$$ and have a reasonable expectation to access endgame content. Imagine if the rest of the business community were ran like this where everyone paid the same $$$ for a Tesla, but Musk only gave access to high end features to a small handful of elitists who actually may not be elite since Mythic access is more political than anything else.
I believe that the majority of people who really enjoy Delves are not the same people who do Mythic+ nor do they care to do Mythic+. I am one of those people. I love to raid, do delves, but I have zero interest in the current way Mythic+ is functioning. Why should Delves be somehow nerfed when it comes to crests in comparison to Mythic+? High level Delves should be rewarding and a viable way to gear up. Now, people who do Delves are still forced to do Mythic+ too if they want to get their gear maxed out in a reasonable amount of time.
Don't see a problem with delves giving full gear, even myth vault... I do Mythic raiding. So it's really no problem to me... The people who actually like M+ aren't about the crests or the myth track gear, it's about the rating, pushing keys... I also don't do Mythic raiding for the Myth gear either, I wouldn't mind if mythic didn't even give actual gear, the difficulty curve would be much smoother and nicer without mythic gear at all and it would be about your skill a lot more than getting your mythic gear and the rewards could be vanity, titles and such... I actually find doing tier 11 with my husband much harder than any 10 key I've been in, so please... Give it myth track and gilded and let me never ever have to touch M+... M+ people trust me, you don't want me playing your content, I am mostly just in a bad mood while doing it cause I feel forced in to doing it, not doing it cause I want to... I refuse to look up mechanics or caring about knowing what to interrupt... And even with that, I still do +10s easy... And tier 11 is same difficulty for me, but I actually have fun and I think that's what games should be.. Play what you have fun playing and get everything that you need from the content that you enjoy playing... I would never ever gatekeep gear, everyone even the open world only guy wants to solo all the stuff in the world like I can and I see no damn problem in letting him if he puts in the time with his world quests and what not... It doesn't matter to me at all... A perfect world to me is no different gear levels at all, just get gear from normal and that's it and difficulty settings is just that... A difficulty challenge with no gear upgrades.... But that's just me.
Bottom line...we ALL pay the same amount to play this game...whether we are mythic + raiders or solo players...we should ALL have access to the highest gear levels
Wow…
None of these S2 changes are going to being me back...grind...grind...grind
That's exactly what I have felt, you've become a massive elitest over delves. Why should we be foreced into mythic+ to upgarade our gear? I haven't done mythic plus since they were called challenge mode in mop. In mop I had a guild, i raided and challenge mode was accessable. Now Mythic+ on a hunter not at all accessable. I can't get a group. I'm not even going to try anymore, and nothing they can do other than a solo que will get me into mythic +.
Also, Delves could drop 0.02% of a gilded crest.. and I would still rather run Delves than pug Mythic+
I would ideally like to see every endgame track reward the same level gear, and let people decide what they want to do based on what’s the most fun and/or gives the desired challenge.
Unfortunately for many, their identity is wrapped up in how strong their gear is, and for many others, they will optimize the fun out of it.
As someone who's become an almost pure solo player, I agree solo progression should be slower, MUCH slower than group play, but making progression beyond a certain point a "practical impossibility" is ridicules. The Map Nerf completely killed Gilded Crest acquisition and although dropping the trade up cost helped a lot, only the absolute most dedicated solo players can fully gear that way within a season. The only argument for keeping Gilded crests completely out of reach of solo players is because the M+ scene has become SO overwhelmingly toxic and hateful, that Gilded crests are the ONLY carrot on the stick left to drive people into your group so you can rage at and belittle them till they can't take it anymore.
It's not about the Crests or the gear, it's people being threatened that they won't have an iron grip on progression anymore and will have to start acting like reasonable human beings or their M+ group will be empty.
hard disagree. Doing stuff solo is actually harder than leaning on a tank to hold aggro and a healer to pick you back up. Takes less coordination and communication sure. But those things are not really a game skill and shouldn't have in game rewards attached to them. Eg. Zekvir ?? must be done solo for the achieve. because a tank and healer (and 2-3 kicks) would trivialize the content. We just THINK that group stuff is harder because it's literally larger health pools and more damage incoming, But our group composition is designed to make those things almost not matter. (I basically just explained the entire premise of a dungeon, sorry). But thats also actually the point.
If you can do a +10 in a group and you get 15 crests, Why can't someone do something else of equal difficulty, solo, and get that too. Your rewards shouldn't have anything to do with how many mates you had along with you. It should be similar rewards if you are playing at the similar level.
@ElCapitanGames I completely agree there's no good logic behind completely cutting off someone's ability to progress unless they're willing to deal with the nightmare of pugging M+ and M raids. People will tell you, "Do guild runs then!", but modern wow guilds all have their little social cliques and people to kiss up to for a a slot just as well.
The only reason Blizz holds back isn't because top level solo stuff is somehow _more_ trivial than group content, it's because M+ and M raid people would totally revolt and unsub.
@@xaulted1 I say let em. well miss all 6 of those guilds.
its already happening, I have seen a dozen "delves are the problem" or "why isnt anyone pugging why cant mplus groups fill, nerf delve gear prog" vids but not one that says "hey guys, why did all the heals and tanks leave pugging mplus, are we the problem? Could it be that we sit in look for group lists for hours because no one wants to run with us anymore?"
@LizzieLeish Bingo. If you feel giving people another option deletes _your_ option, than your option was bad to begin with.
I really love the delve system I can sort my run how I want to. Nothing toxic but the boss if I fail I can blame me. I can learn from that fail. I can remember when mythic plus came out and Raiders were ticked off. We just roll with it. Let me play my way, delves. And they can play there way. I look at it this way, if I want something from the raid I go raid I come prepared now not just an under-geared mess.
14:06 Exactly! is if i was getting mad because pvp players have better gear in pvp. Its childshit. I rather see people gearing this way than going away. We don't need less people in the game. Just add different ways of progressing and let people be!
What item level do you need to unlock the badge trade up for Runed to Gilded badges?
Get all gear slots to 619
I dont think delves will have a lower crest limit. They will just reward fewer of them and making them less efficient to farm via delves.
If they come from bountifuls its a functional limit. Say 1 crest from any 11 and 10 from Guilded (average) So while no HARD limit would exist it would soft limit to roughly 50-60ish a week. Which would be WAY less efficient than raiding or mythics. (as it should be imo)
@@shawnc292 there is a lot of ifs in your statement. The only thing most people agree with, is that m+ should reward them faster than delves. However, i disagree it should be abysmally slow- like some people seem to hope.
@@kantace5198 agreed, Casuals have Alts after all, we're not out to see how many Keys we can do, we technically cant even get Tier anymore unless we're lucky and in S1 i only got 2 Tier Set pieces from Vault, it's unlikely that we Casuals will be getting Tier Sets in S2, so why restrain us on Crests much?
Limit per day, already limited
Allowing other people to earn gear/crests isn't the end of the world. I really don't understand this mentality. I don't solo play or even do delves, but idc if that's how people want to approach the gearing process. It doesn't affect me nor you - and I honestly have not heard anyone complaining about this. Maybe delves are more fun for someone; Maybe M+ is, or raiding? Let people decide.
Any idea on the launch date yet for season 2?
Love the TLDW at the end! Gonna watch the full video later today on lunch but it's really nice to have a quick summary on changes before heading into work.
As a former high end raider, but now delve only player, I wouldnt mind a cap at half the weekly. Delves are stupidly easy with 5 people. I do them solo for more of a challenge, but i still run them with my friends on my alts. I never thought about doing tons of crsfted gear with crests, but with the change that a definite option now, and my alt is an armorsmith. With Souls proposed system, the 7 IL difference is significant enough for the differentiation between mythic raiders and me i think.
I dont know about y'all who are delve only people, but on my ret pally at 620 T11 with lives left is near impossible. I was getting wrecked by the trash mobs. Though i am sure now someone will tell me T11 is a walk in the park.
My only change to Souls proposal would be 45 per week instead of 30.
I have issues with the keys and bounty system, but thats a different discussion i think.
ANd that is ret pally, of all things
I'm a demo lock main at 620, I wouldn't say t11 solo is easy, just doable. I finally got my Immortal Spelunker achievement a few days ago, a Christmas miracle, lol. When I decide that I want to do an 11 solo I have to make sure to carve out about an hour of my playtime to be able to get it done.
Takes hours to get a m+ or raid going thanks to bad tank / healer gameplay
Hi, healer and tank main here. We didnt leave for delves because of bad gameplay, its not the first season where its sucked to heal. we left because pugging mplus as heal or tank sucks with how rude people are, and the moment we had content we could do without putting up with that we quit en masse
I appreciate your positivity in your videos
Where did that screenshot in the thumbnail come from?
Not real, just a mockup
Personally I think in the next year or so, Delves will surpass Mythic+ in popularity.. just like Mythic+ did to raids.
Don't really care what 'badass' players can do. They're bassass for a reason. But at least the Casuals can eventually get there.
just make it so that the crests you earn are connected with the reward you pick from the great vault. With this you cant spam farm crests from multiple play styles anymore and its done. You pick a reward on the reset and you get the crests with it from the work you did the week before.
Having to wait the whole week to mess with upgrades would feel really odd. Like I'd be considering not just the crests I'm getting for current upgrades but new gear I might get from the vault I have to somehow anticipate.
Yeah the feeling of feeling I'm getting an incremental upgrade each day would feel lost.
I've tried Into the am shirts and I can say they are nice shirts. Especially if you can get them on sale. Worth the buy if you like graphic tees.
In my mind if you allow easier access to gilded crest and thus mythic gear you can make mythic gear cooler, and then make the reason you raid and do mythic plus other things. ie a raid renown track (which you can get from raid finder).
but still you can encourage raiding without making gilded crests the main incentive, and i think the renown track is kinda on the right path
As a day 1 player and ex-raider hearing that ppl might be crying over weather they can get this ilvl or that the others guys able to get that ilvl makes me realize how childish it all is.
Okay great gilded crests, yay! Or yay? My biggest problem isn’t crests. It’s more flight stones. I feel like there isn’t a quick way to get those. Few from quests and weekly/daily quests/events. Dungeons. Delves. But those take longer to complete. Need more daily outdoor activities that are quick to farm. Also should be awarded from those little floating mote things you can get while flying. Also make them transferrable!
I've observed the complailnt to sum up to a "feast or famine" kind of relationship with valorstones so at worst, a nuisance.
But at least everyone has access to those.
Spent most of the video shopping on IntotheAM 😅 Guess I could just rewatch it lol
According to data mining it is 18 a week from delves… 18 of the 90 available weekly
Scale the guild crests in the delves 9,10,11. Personally, I can do a delve 9, struggle a lot on a 10 and haven't been able to do an 11 yet; help me get my power so I can do some of this advanced delve activity. (We're all not "elites"), and some of us (me included) don't have the ability to reach elite, as a player.
First mythic plus I ran with a guildie and myself last week after being talked into it, the group left after first death and lowered poor dudes key. No one was happy. Solidified my view on not wanting to do it anymore.
i like GCs from delves. But 11s may be too high. They are certainly not simple or easy or fast.
Knowing tank Brann will be a thing makes me wonder, but hard to give a take without some hands on testing.
I wanna know if a class with decent dps and strong off healing would be TOO effective and make those classes way too good at clearing 11s. Broadly, solo content simply can't be balanced.
@@SoulSoBreezy agreed, but i think what we ALL can agree upon is that 2-3 Crests per Delve is way too slow. it doesnt have to be AS fast, but the notion that you have to group for Crests is dogshit. M+ Players just want to push keys and they'll continue to get held back by us Casuals because we're only there for the Crest drops.
Brann will die in 11s. He was made so healers can have a tank to do delves with...
A dps shouldnt just have a tank that survives everything in an 11 for them to just burst and win.
If the delves only give a third of the weekly cap as in your example, then it would be fair that m+s would also only supply a third, and the mythic raid the final portion. If making people play other game styles is considered, then it should be across the board.
You're actually suggesting keys don't award myth track gear, which i would disagree with.
Don't gaslight yourself into thinking this is a question about comparing difficulties. It's about how many crests these game modes actually use before caps are lifted
I do, do high end content and I still feel that everyone should be able to progress to max gear for that season regardless of your content. The only thing that should effect it is the rate at which you acquire it. Also why personally I think all gear should do x/14 or whatever like it did in season 4 so once you get that item you can upgrade it given enough time. Effort and time are related in my mine regardless if you are doing cutting edge raiding or just want to endless spam out delves or world current. Sure those lower levels of content don't need the gear but it always feels good to know you could be progressing and not just cock blocked.
S4 still required crests from the appropriate difficulty. You're suggesting the same gear drops regardless of difficulty which is a separate but possibly fun conversation to have
Based on my recent experiences I would probably go for M+ in season 2 instead of Delves. With a nice group a M+ runs take 20 minutes for 12 gilded crests. If I get 2 gilded crests per Delve on Delve 11, I would need to do 6 Delves to get the same number of crests. In this situation I would do M+ for sure for two reasons. Delves will get boring much quicker than M+ as I have to grind the same content much more often. Furthermore M+ will give me more satisfying direct loot. I’m not going to do 23 Delves for one crafted mythic item. Especially because I play on multiple characters.
When mythic + started in legion, mythic + gear should have only upgraded INSIDE of the mythic+ dungeon. Not scale out on the world of azeroth. It made the ilvl range waaaaaay to wonky to balance. If I remember, there was a stat squish near the end of legion because damage numbers were like hundreds of millions in number.
If you keep the gear only upgrading in its specific content, the world ilvl doesn't get so skewed. If they did it like I suggested then they could still have mythic raid highest, then heroic raid, then mythic+, then normal raid, then heroic dungeon gear and so on. So full mythic+ gear would be a good start to heroic raid or something like that. They also shouldn't have so many modes. Mythic raid, heroic raid, normal raid, LFR raid. If you do progression only inside of the mode, it saves ALL ilvls from getting left behind so badly.
If we go by this logic then mythic + earned crests should also be limited below the amount that can be earned by raiding, because dungeons are lesser content than raids.
For example:
Raid cap 90 / week
M+ cap 60 / week
Delve cap 30 / week
Maximum weekly cap 100 - 120.
(Btw i used to raid and did some m+ aswell but now completely burned out of those and became a delve player so i'd like to see less and less distance between rewards.)
No, the logic behind delve caps is that delves don't give myth track gear that warrants farming so much gilded. It has nothing to do with what we think is "lesser content"
Gilded crests can be locked with bountiful keys if they want to make it more fair
I think delves should give increasingly higher rewards for higher difficulty. Right now there is zero reason to go above tier 8 and tier 8 have become fairly easy to beat now.
Rather do delves. Than having to do mythic plus. Make it the same as mythic. Everyone should mention it as feedback to blizzard that cap is cap no limit or forced group content if you dont want to.
Blizzard should also provide enough gilded or any of the currency within 8 runs not having to run 20 to cap.
I have been stuck at max item level for me for about two months now. Can't get gilded and upgrade because i don't want to do m+ and doing heroic palace does not give anything more either.
i think blizz need to rethink the whole gearing thing now that they have a variety of different "end game" activities. Getting high level gear should be consistent across all end game activities and then you have the choice of how to get them. So cap the ilvls to things like delve 10s, +10 keys, rating 2000 in pvp and clearing heroic raids. That gives you the ilvl stuff which will enable you to progress to the higher levels if you so choose and then just give really cool cosmetic and/or unique rewards. If you only care about ilvl - you get let out of jail earlier to do whatever you like: level an alt, go farm mogs/mounts/pets/whatever or just unsub and play a different game. If you want to do higher level content it's because you want the challenge or the actual prestige or bragging rights to say that you did it.
This way you would reduce the toxic thoughts out of the systems where X is better than Y because it gets the higher ilvl gear. There will always be the "this game mode is better than that one because reasons" but at least it becomes more personal choice rather than chasing ilvls (which when you get past a certain point don't matter really anyway). If you wanna do the higher level stuff to prove you're a better gamer - go for it. If you don't have enough time in your week but want to max out your ilvl so that you can try higher level stuff when you get extra time - this system should allow you to do that.
As a solo player, I would rather raid/mythic be the easier option for gearing but then also having the same potentially to reach the same ilvl just with a little more effort/time
Id like if delves got a bit harder, once I was able to do t8 they got easy really fast, most deaths was from just pulling multiple packs of mobs by choice.
id have liked more reasons to do higher tiers beyond achivements.
I think it should be easy for everyone outside of the hardcore players who do high keys and mythic raiding to be able to have access to the resource for upgrading gear to the highest level like them. but not everyone should have access to mythic raiding gear because then it wouldn't be no variation in wow content if everyone able to attain the same loot as hardcore keys pusher and mythic raiders. they should keep the gap between casual and normal players and high keys players and mythic raiders go. at the same time still offer a way for everyone to at least gain access to the same resources to upgrade gear. such as in delves maybe offer some ways to attain glided crest to upgrade gear maybe by small amount compared to mythic raiders and high keys players. if not then you have players whining and complaining there no chase or incentive to chase anything because everyone have access to the same gear or loot. so no don't let everyone have access to the same loot as high-end players beside the resources goes by a small amount. also, I'm a normal player who doesn't push keys or mythic raid, I like the chase and progression for myself to keep getting better. my own personal opinion.
I'll just say if a player forces themselves into delves if they do not enjoy them, they deserve to be bored. We need to stop worrying about how the insane will ruin themselves and their own fun. Let the other 95% use it like a normal person
Regardless of play style (I'm a solo Delver myself), getting angry with fellow players because they had an idea that doesn't strike somebody as ideal is just crummy. I'm not new to the Internet or anything, I just dislike it when a content creator (or anybody else) feels the need to apologize for their opinion or idea about some aspect of game design.
My opinion is “who cares which way is faster”. The people gearing in delves to start will have a better chance of getting into groups with a higher item level
The problem isn’t with delves or with mythic plus. The problem is the player base because of all the gatekeeping. Delves wouldn’t be the path of least resistance if mythic plus players stopped inviting solely based on item level. Personally, I think WoW devs should completely remove the players ability to see a players item level. Instead, they should update the group finder to set a recommended item level range for each mythic plus variant, and only allow players within that range to apply for a group for a particular dungeon. This way, the group creator will only have to focus on inviting the class or player. Additionally, players won’t have to waste a bunch of time applying for groups, and constantly getting denied. The result will be more traffic through group finder, and a lot less down time.
They should just make it equal reward wise. Players shouldnt be punished for wanting to go solo. Blizz themself see a huge % of their players are solo players so they added delves to gear up. Simple solution to this is give M+ best in slot rings and neck. And mythic raid gets the bis weapons and trinkets. DELVES gets the same ilvl as M+ and raid. But they dont get BIS items.
Boom we have a power difrence and everyone can be happy.
Also gonna point out that majority of delvers are altoholics so only thing that will happen when they get the best ilvl gear.. they will just log a new character and gear that one. Meaning in no shape or form will the majority of delvers come and take the M+ player's spot. Or the raider's spot. Simply because they have no interest in that spot.
My prediction: With tier 11 delves having a reward beyond a one time achievement, people will quickly become frustrated with the nature of that content because it highlights the inconsistency in difficulty that delves can have across many classes as well as for how it can play out with certain encounters. When I did my first 11 delve, I had to reroll the delve a couple times because one of the mini-bosses had a poison that I just couldn't deal with on that character.
Yes, the recommended gear level for Tier 11 Delves in season 1 was Mythic level. It was not realistic to expect every class/spec to do tier 11 Delves by just using the gear and crests obtained by doing Delves alone. Hopefully in season 2, it will be more realistic to get through all eleven tiers of Delves using just the gear and crests you earn when doing Delves.
One extra comment. Mythic raiding is harder than anything else people do in wow. Just heroic raiding is pretty bonkers. I dont mind people doing that having higher level gear than me. That gap just needs to be smaller. As it is right now, T11 delves arent even technically difficult for the most part. The mobs just hit super hard and you have a life limit.
As a solo player what i found delves are ok and fun , but the gear that drop is not fun or good , for example all the time drop the same trinkets and if drops other gear like helmets or whatever there uselles because all of us we have tiers now , it will be nice if the delves drop gear with some special bonus or abilittys to help us for delves and outside the word like tier but specific for this . .
I say that for months now. 5 Crest per T8 Delve. I would guess most "normal" players need 10-15 Minutes, depending on the Delve, version and ilvl, to finish one. That would mean you get one upgrade every hour. The datamining shows you get gilded crests with Tier11 and Tier8+ Maps. If a Tier 11 just give 2 crest they can keep it because it would be the same brainless grind.
M+ currently gives 5 Crest for a non timed and 12 for a timed iirc. A Tier 11 Delve should give 8 Crests if you consider difficulty, playerskill requierment and ilvl you need so you need only 2 Tier 11 Delves to get an upgrade and Tier9 should give 6 and Tier10 7 runed crests. Maps would start at Tier8 and would always give 10 Crests. From my personal experience i would say i get one T8 Map for every 6-8 Delves. So you could even farm gilded crest when you are not good enough for t9+ but would take much more time. For sure it would never happen but i think its a fair solution to give Solo players more progress and a goal.
I'm pretty sure they did something like this before but in PvP with conquest points... You can only get so many conquests doing battlegrounds in a week .. compared to people who are doing arenas if I remember correctly
I was a hardcore raider back in the day but all those friends have moved on and I do not like the Mythic scene at all dungeons or raids. I don't care about the dungeon or raid players let them have their fun how they like it and let the solo or small group players have fun the way they want because we all pay for the game and no one's fun is more important than another's so I do not see any issue with delves becoming more protonate in the gearing scene because blizzard will still make their money and I bet they will make more because of the less toxic and hassle delves are compared to the others. I would like to see the numbers on the amount of solo or small group players vs mythic+/Mythic raiding....whoever the larger group is should be a main focus but still make sure the rest are taken care of.
Why is this a thing? A game should be about having fun on your own time. I have 2 kids and I'd love to raid but i simply cannot promise my presence on any specific day. So Delves are all i've got. I used to LFR and thats about all i would be able to do and it kinda sucked. I am challenged and feel like im not lagging too far behind. Also a great way to do things if you do not play a meta spec. Waiting for hours to do a key simply cuz you would rather play a spec you like is just dumb. Delves are all good for all the right reasons and mythic people can do their mythics if thats what they wanna do.
There is no way they allow more than just a few gilded crests a week. 10 or 15 tops. They have been stingy with runed crests in season 1, I doubt they will be generous with a higher tier
Maybe they should give delve gear the pvp gear treatment and make it have a ilvl boost while only in delves. I just don't want the content I can access solo get nerfed because mythic plus/raider people abuse it.
I wish they just used ranks for crests and gear tracks. Im an AoTC and keystone hero player each season and still no idea whats what with them.
I wonder why blizzard hate solo players so much? How about they design the game around ppl wanting to do certain content rather than having to do it?
Why does it matter so much if solo players get their stuff another way seriously? How does it effect the people that get them from dungeons and raids?
Having Brann capped during season 1 was annoying. And then they slowly increased the cap a little every week. Also annoying. Thumbs up for great videos.
I dont expect delves will provide a lot of gilded. They already don't give out a lot of crests per run as it is. My guess is the gilded that drop from delves will be doing so, so delvers aren't stuck at 4/6 H upgrades and a path to max level crafted pieces.
I won't be surprised to see the crest income scale similarly to keys, where they drop more runed the higher tier you go until 11, when we get X number of gilded.
The question is whether they'll give a low amount and we grind our faces in, or have this separate cap but higher drop rate.
I straight delve on some alts, so if they're going to keep it where there is no access to mythic track gear (not add access via vault), then my straight delving alts wouldn't need near as many guilded as my main for their gear.
I don't think a delve cap would really impact straight delvers. Plus gives raid/+ers an alternative avenue to supplement their weekly gilded.
@@SoulSoBreezy Looks like they're going even stingier...18 a week from delves. 3 weeks to save up for a crafted piece and making no other upgrades. Ouch.
people keep talking about guilded crests from delves. You get two crests from delves as it is now. If that continues and you get two crests from 11s.....
why do you need more ? its 8 per day x 6 which is 48 excluding maybe the map that gives more , which you still need to do some m+ , like 3 timed keys to max out the week , they said in their delve announcement that they wanna make m+ still the best endgame content.
@sharkstaint1373 must have missed that delve announcement..so 8 per delve now?
@@sharkstaint1373 then they will continue to have more and more people leave and the rest of you sit in lists waiting for groups longer and longer. Why do you care what a delver needs anyway? Will my gear effect your sub?
@@ericmats4662 4 bounty delves gives you 2 as you said , so it should be 2 x4 which is 8 per day , unless they buff it , which i assume they wont since its free gear on delves.
@@LizzieLeish calm down , your getting mad over a comment , like they take feedback from youtube comments , why do you need upgraded maxed out gear ? explain me this , you character concept is to get stronger and clear harder content , delves are not harder content , you can solo them , plus you get tank bran now , if you give too much crests on delves , people will not bother to do m+ keys that much for crest farm , means less players available on +8 range keys , you got a brain tho , you should understand why they give you 2 crests per delve , they didn't make the number "2" cause its small , its to make m+ the king of endgame , you will have to do it.
Slowly, Bliz has learned there is more than one way to play their game, and addressing the slighting those other playstyles have suffered for decades. To piss on any other playstyle is the definition of elitist, so if you are doing it, you are an elite snob, if you are doing it, own it.
I play wow solo for the most part and have been using delves as my main source of gear since they became available on my main tank and a couple alts, they are not "that" easy when you get up past level 8 they are like doing a heroic dungeon or mini raid by yourself. So to see that the gear level stops increasing past 603 after you hit 8 is a deterrent for me to bother going to level 11 since the reward isn't any better, To be given a better reward would be incentive to go higher. Their is no reason to be bothered by people getting gear any way they choose to everyone has a choice and who is anyone to look badly upon someone else because they didn't get their gear by raiding or doing mythic + its all about jealousy when it doesn't have to be.
I left the game after due to the grind, but the new changes and up coming changes made me come back, delves rocks!!
The problem with the current system was hitting that point where there was no where to go without a truly monotonous grind. Champion and Hero track both stop at 619 if you are only getting runed crests. So once every slot has champion or hero there isn't really a big need to keep pushing. I have a main I do all content on and alts I was just doing delves on. If I am playing an alt I don't want to sit in queues, I just want to goof off. I have a Blood DK alt I enjoy playing, but am not great on and wouldn't push keys on. I did delves on this character and had a blast, but I stopped playing my DK because I capped out months ago. I had all champion and some heroic pieces from my vault, but it wasn't worth doing 8 delves to for a heroic piece because I wasn't going to get it past 619 anyways. The path forward would be to go into high keys I wasn't qualified to tank, even with the changes no one wants me tanking an 8 on my DK, including me. To keep playing delves, I'd be stuck turning my vault into runed crests and every other week turn that into 15 gilded crests. Even now with the reduced costs it's just not worth the effort. With gilded in delves I'd have played a lot longer. I could have maxed out heroic gear, chased some mythic crafted pieces, I wouldn't have been done for months.
The only people who complain about delvers getting hero gear and gilded crests are mythic players because they want to think they're elite and they want to hoard the best stuff for themselves. It shouldn't matter to them what gear anyone has who isn't in a group with them. Allowing delves to reward better gear should be a good thing, as they can get geared faster by having two tracks in which to do it. Are they worried about "shit players" getting good gear from delves and sneaking into their high keys and bricking the keys? There's an easy solution: make everyone put in a key in each mythic run, and have everyone's key increase/decrease. Then you'll know if someone has mythic experience in addition to a high iLevel.
God forbid people go into storm mode on siren isle if they’re struggling with low tier delves
i might be a sadist but I run mythic because I enjoy it, not for gear or rating. I like to challenge myself to learn new classes or specs and play them up to a high level. the gear is just securing future transmogs and earning reward mounts.
getting seasonal gear that is only useful for 5 to 6 months should never be the goals
Considering how painful keys are nowadays, slowing down solo players shouldn’t be the goal. Also if you can’t do +8s or mythic raiding at least with better solo rewards you could max out hero track gear for starters?
Why “gear,” if you have no desire to kill end game bosses. They would have to make more Zekvir style encounters. Would be an odd way to write a story. We all gear up to kill the bad guy. So far there are no bad guys in a delve. Change that and make the delve hard. People will be happy I would think.
If it’s for “solo” players crests should only drop while solo.
love solo content like delves but not when it forces you to have to play a spec you dont want to. Main a resto druid and hate having to switch to tank just to finish a delve. So only do delves when the blue quest for completing 5 is active. Then i just run 5 quick 1's and move on.
Soul first let me say love your content.
My background is I do some pluses (never higher than 10) and some heroic raids.And in the past I've done some mythic raiding.
I dont think that delves will give the same amount of crests as +s or raids, because they dont today. A successful 8 gives you 2 runed crests. Even if they double it (which most folks would appreciate) that would still be 4. And you only get them from bountiful delves so at most you can make 16 a day if they double it. You typically can get to 7-8 bountiful a week, and thats your built in cap. There are of course some unknowns in S2 including:
- Will you still be able to buy keys for bountiful with you current rep or is there some new rep you'll need to do so? I'd bet a new rep as I have a crap ton of coffer key shards and undercoat, if they don't make a new currency/rep requirement, I can hit 90 gilded a week for 2-3 weeks consecutively.
- How hard are 11s going to be? Right now 11s are very difficult delves if you are not a tank. Healers and cloths dps can not solo them. Heck I've seen groups fail in them because those named mobs are BRUTAL. If 11s are as difficult as they are right now will be super challenging to get your hands on those gilded crests.
- Delves still need work. I don't claim to be the worlds greatest player but I'm KSM, I've got AOTC and as a 632 Shadow Priest there are still T8 delves I can not solo.
As a shadow priset myself I can pretty easily do t8, but mindcontrole is needed to compete t11s and splitting/sniping mobs is needed.. though some end bosses I can’t do because of the raw damage I have to medigate
For t8 my advice is MC a powerful mop and take it slow if you have a hard time 🫡
@@LærkeJensen-g4p The one that sticks out in my mind, well the couple are there is one where the final group is three mobs, that one is a problem for me because I can't MC them. The other is the mine one where the final boss has a ton of movement.
Like every one of them the dungeon itself isn't so hard, but the final bosses are more work than 2 runed crests is worth.
Had multiple pieces of Myth gear at the end of Dragonflight, I had all Hero Gear by like the sixth week through delves only in TWW, as of right now my hero gear still isnt leveled all the way and I dont have a single peice of Myth gear and probably still wont by the end of the patch. W o n k y.
Young Kypto is in the background 😮
They have confirmed that there will not be crest caps in S2 and beyond. The crest caps are gone for good.
Any source for this?
@ I can’t post links in comments cuz they’re auto deleted but … WoW Forums > General Discussions > Crest Acquisitions Improvements.
We'll have to wait and see if they keep the same difficulty scaling as s1. If they do, tier 11 delves are out of reach for the general player anyways.
It hurts no one to allow solo players and casuals the opportunity to get good gear. My guild is an AOTC guild only. We are casual with a mix of players. Some are very good players and some are very bad. The better players carry our weaker players. Our weaker players can not run higher mythic plus. Being able to gear our weaker players gives them more stamina to help them survive better in raid and maybe even out DPS our tanks. As for me (an average player), I am burned out of mythic plus and have only done a few this season to help out some guildies with breaking the meta. I am at a point where I’m out geared by the other healers and only have raid trinkets (which this season most raid heal trinkets are not as good as M+ trinkets). It feels bad to be behind gear wise, but it’s not worth running M+ to me. I would love it if delves could give the highest crest with the proper delve level. Maybe even make a trinket for each role that’s actually decent that drops in delves only.
what dose having a cap even do, theirs fixed item slots
Not totally related to your video but a general feeling, the "snobby," M+ players used to insult people and tell them to stick to solo content... now that delves allow people to stick to solo content M+ players are whining there aren't enough people in M+ and they have to wait in queue for hours.
Someone explain to me why people who only want to do delves even need mythic lvl gear? Delves can be clearing mindlessly in heroic gear. The point of grinding out mythic gear is to do high lvl mythic content that these people don’t want to do..