It is arguably Holst's best piece. I think Vaughan Williams said "it made me want to get up, kiss everyone and then get drunk", and honestly how could anyone disagree? Holst was not religious, his philosophy was closer to eastern thought and mysticism but he sure wrote a lot of religious music! He also studied Indian raga and traditional music, which shows in his use of unusual descending scales. I used to call myself a Holstian but I stand corrected. I am now a Holster.
I like your RVW quote. Reminds of when I read something he wrote along the lines of ".... met Ravel at Waterloo Station, then we went to the pub by platform (...) drank ale and lunched on steak pudding"
Savitri makes use of those Indian "finds" and is also so haunting. Especially the recording with Janet Baker; imogen Holst. I once heard an outdoor performance in rather inclement weather (but it didn't matter) at dusk but the voices were spaced and distanced, the orchestra decent enough; the effect was uniquely mystic and haunting. Though some of Boughton's Immortal Hour has a similar effect.
Delighted that you're promoting Holst the Magician with one of his most scintillating pieces. His choral works especially are real gems, some of them literally out of this world. The haunting Hymns from the Rig Veda (Group 3) with the women's chorus accompanied just by a harp are probably my favourite. Keep listening, friends, to Holst!
Amen to this! Luminously beautiful writing - with the aleatoric elements bringing an added immediacy to the texture. Holst was a genuine visionary - he didn't write for fashion, he wrote from personal conviction. Although his output can be spotty, you never doubt his sincerity. He didn't come from money and knew what it meant to be a jobbing musician - and he had to work hard. He wrote visionary music but also music that amateurs could perform, because he felt that music should be accessible to all. A truly humane individual. See also his sublime choral work The Evening Watch, Egdon Heath, Hammersmith, and beautiful song settings.
So happy to see this (but you'll want to fix the typo in the title of the video - 'of' rather than 'to'). Celebrating Holst with a discussion of the Hymn of Jesus is a great idea. It's an astonishing work and - as you say - all three of the recordings mentioned are excellent. I suppose my favourite is Boult, but Hickox comes with so many other great things. By the way, the 'Ode to Death', wonderful despite its title, was the work that Vaughan Williams thought was Holst's best of all. As well as the Hickox recording of it, the Ode was also on the original release of the Groves Hymn of Jesus, along with some of the Choral Hymns from the Rig Veda, all in very good performances.
I have always considered this to be Holst’s singular masterpiece versus The Planets as accepted by conventional wisdom. Thank you for giving this work the attention it deserves.
Holst was seemingly an agnostic by personal belief, but like most unbelieving western composers, Holst wrote wonderful works in the sacred Christian idiom regardless. (Janacek was a confirmed atheist who nonetheless crafted the remarkable Glagolitic Mass, and of course there are many great “Christian” works written by Jewish composers). Fortunately, old Gus-TAV’s tendency to be a square peg in a round hole resulted in this Hymn, which may not be easily shunted into a genre, and is all the better for it. A compelling work of Christian ecstasy, despite being written by a non-Christian.
Very enjoyable discussion. This is a piece I came across many years ago and it is absolutely amazing, as you say. Other top 20th century choral works are Bernstein Mass, Britten War Requiem, also Britten's Cantata Academica, which does not get nearly enough attention.
Thanks for this David. You have helped me to realize that, in addition to my many favorites there are many wonderful musical compositions that I have not been aware of. You have introduced me to several of them.
David, you're a star! Another great video on a great work. I was a student in Liverpool back when Groves had the Philharmonic (orchestra, not pub, for you Liverpudlians). What I chiefly recall is how self-effacing he was on the podium, also how interesting concert programmes were back then. Mahler one week (a rarity in those days), premier of Rubbra's 8th Symphony the next. And rush tickets at a price even a student could easily afford. Those who think Holst is a bit cold might try The Cloud Messenger. I find it very moving.
Loving this Holst series! For me, the pinnacle of his ‘spacey’ sound is his late, incredibly weird song Betelgeuse - similar in ethos if not sound to Schoenberg’s 2nd quartet. Would love to hear you dissect that one!
What an interesting talk! Just listened to the "Hymn of Jesus" (Groves), afterwards to my beloved "Ode to Death" (also Groves). I'm not sure, which of the two I prefer. Of course, the "Hymn" is the more expansive work. But when I hear "Dark mother" in the "Ode", there's such a spine chilling power that I cannot resist. Holst was a true genius, indeed, and I'm so grateful that not the "Planets" have been my first Holst-encounter but "Savitri" on a vinyl, long ago, because I read thet's the model for Britten's church operas. And it is... Thanks for the talk, it was an inspiration to go back to my old love Gustav!
You're welcome. I heard Savitri right after The Planets, and I loved it because it was so totally different. Holst was like Mahler or Schoenberg in that he never repeated himself, but still always sounds like himself.
This is one of those pieces where the RUclips videos with full score come in handy. You're not going to learn the score obviously, but it's great to see who's doing what and where everything is going, and the "fains" are quite legible! :)
This masterpiece will be performed in the UK soon as 2024 will be Holst's anniversary! In addition, I recommend comparing his four masterpieces: "The Planets", "The Hymn of Jesus", "Ode to Death" and the cappella vocal chorus "This have I done for my true love". These four works were written at a similar time (1914-1919) and in the same place (the town of Thaxted, Essex); "Planets" and "Hymn of Jesus" were both drawn from mysticism (astrology vs Gnosticism); "The Hymn", "This Have I Done" and "Jupiter" show how mystery rituals, the dance, and festive jollity could perfectly interwoven.
Have you ever seen/heard of a performance where the two choirs are "well separated" as Holst recommends? It would be difficult in most venues, but I have recommended it to a local choir which rehearses next to a church which could accommodate it. I sang it at a choir festival back in 1990 and have been wanting to sing it again ever since.
Great talk, David. The first time I heard this piece, I was blown away! And - I have the EMI Groves recording! How about a 'Ten must-have Holst pieces' talk? Just a thought.....
Boy, did you nail THIS one! I can't imagine a better case being made for the greatness of this work. I recall my late brother..somewhat of a mystic himself, copying out Holst's entire text to aid him in listening. For both of us, it was BOULT all the way!....despite the slightly crude sonics. The great British choral singing (in '62) was still full, rich, and "manly" in sound (the ff "GLORY TO THEE" is astounding), Boult's pacing is superb, the placement of the semi-chorus--floating over the murmuring (spoken) chant of the full choruses--is flawlessly captured. Groves' and Hickox's choruses, by comparison, are lightweight. My problem with Groves (as always..sorry) is his overall lackadaisical reading; Hickox is terrific, but his reading is spoiled by a TOO FAST tempo of the recurring processional which, again, BOULT gets exactly right. This was another example of the solemn procession idea that Holst used in Saturn, Egdon Heath, etc., which loses its power if taken too quickly. Groves' recording, however, contains the awesome FUNERAL CHANT from the Rig-Veda Hymns (#2), a great bonus. I have the Boult "Hymn" in a 2-cd set from Decca ("The British Music Collection") which has LOTS of fabulous other stuff: the great Janet Baker/Imogen SAVITRI, Perfect Fool, Edgon H., etc And I'm happy to report that the super-critical Imogen thought very highly of "The Hymn" except for one passage near the end ("Had ye known how to suffer"), in which she felt her dad lapsed back into a somewhat cheesy, Hollywood idiom. But .....this IS HOLST'S MASTERPIECE, and the musical world should thank you for your passionate, enlightening presentation. LR
Thanks! Yes, in that passage (about suffering) Holst commits the unpardonable crime of conveying the emotional sense of the text, rather than something more literally painful. But that is what pisses me off about Imogen generally--too often, she looks at each piece with the attitude of "this bar is great," "that bar is lousy," and there's no sense of the whole or the larger context.
Your description of the logistical difficulties involved in the work being better known (more often performed) put me in mind of Stravinsky's King of the Stars, for many of the same reasons--although in Stravinsky's case we're dealing with a mere 6 minutes! I wonder if you would consider it in the running for a Miniature Masterpiece? I think it is one, but I don't see myself going to the mat for it, either!
I’m not seeing it immediately by searching Google or RUclips, but you could e-mail the BSO with an inquiry. Maybe you’ll get lucky and peak the interest of someone on staff.
THAT'S RIGHT! It was part of that incredible live concert series that included Ives' Fourth Symphony and Crumb's "Echoes of Time and the River"! A decade earlier, the BSO under Leinsdorf did a TV series which included Mahler 3 and 6, plus Schuller's "7 Studies on Themes of Paul Klee" (at which time their commercial RCA recordings were made). SO WHAT'S WITH THE BSO? WHEN ARE WE GOING TO SEE THESE?? LR
@@HassoBenSoba BSO live is gradually releasing these on their streaming platform (which requires a subscription). I posted a link to a site that offers the Evening at Symphony that the Holst was on, but my post was deleted; which is just as well, given that the site wanted a ridiculous amount of money for an audio-only copy of the program when I contacted them. Your best bet is to send an email to Boston Symphony with a list of the broadcasts that you are interested in, and hope that it gets some consideration.
Fain I would be called a Holster when listening to Holst, Fain I would be called an Oyster when listening to the many other beautiful sounds this world has to offer, Fain all this will result in my mind becoming a pearl Fain it will dissolve upon my soul's arrival in the better world
so not a fan of this work - i guess somebody has to not like it ! - i wonder if it is something that I hear missing that maybe Holst was striving for and didn't quite capture (?) - the whole piece feels like it is in some sort of spiritual limbo to me - one foot in chant, one foot in the English choral tradition, and a third foot in some Planets-type sound world - now I'm guessing I might have liked it very much (or even loved it) if he had shaped the whole piece within the style of the Planets sound universe - but fortunately for Holst enough classical music enthusiasts love this work so that my minority opinion will not be tipping any scales - Sir Donald Francis Tovey, I am not
It is arguably Holst's best piece. I think Vaughan Williams said "it made me want to get up, kiss everyone and then get drunk", and honestly how could anyone disagree?
Holst was not religious, his philosophy was closer to eastern thought and mysticism but he sure wrote a lot of religious music! He also studied Indian raga and traditional music, which shows in his use of unusual descending scales.
I used to call myself a Holstian but I stand corrected. I am now a Holster.
I like your RVW quote. Reminds of when I read something he wrote along the lines of ".... met Ravel at Waterloo Station, then we went to the pub by platform (...) drank ale and lunched on steak pudding"
Savitri makes use of those Indian "finds" and is also so haunting. Especially the recording with Janet Baker; imogen Holst. I once heard an outdoor performance in rather inclement weather (but it didn't matter) at dusk but the voices were spaced and distanced, the orchestra decent enough; the effect was uniquely mystic and haunting. Though some of Boughton's Immortal Hour has a similar effect.
@@bbailey7818 Savitri is very beautiful, plus it was meant to be performed outdoors. Hopefully one day I'll get to see a live performance as well
Delighted that you're promoting Holst the Magician with one of his most scintillating pieces. His choral works especially are real gems, some of them literally out of this world. The haunting Hymns from the Rig Veda (Group 3) with the women's chorus accompanied just by a harp are probably my favourite. Keep listening, friends, to Holst!
agreed-they are exquisite.👍
Amen to this! Luminously beautiful writing - with the aleatoric elements bringing an added immediacy to the texture. Holst was a genuine visionary - he didn't write for fashion, he wrote from personal conviction. Although his output can be spotty, you never doubt his sincerity. He didn't come from money and knew what it meant to be a jobbing musician - and he had to work hard. He wrote visionary music but also music that amateurs could perform, because he felt that music should be accessible to all. A truly humane individual. See also his sublime choral work The Evening Watch, Egdon Heath, Hammersmith, and beautiful song settings.
So happy to see this (but you'll want to fix the typo in the title of the video - 'of' rather than 'to'). Celebrating Holst with a discussion of the Hymn of Jesus is a great idea. It's an astonishing work and - as you say - all three of the recordings mentioned are excellent. I suppose my favourite is Boult, but Hickox comes with so many other great things. By the way, the 'Ode to Death', wonderful despite its title, was the work that Vaughan Williams thought was Holst's best of all. As well as the Hickox recording of it, the Ode was also on the original release of the Groves Hymn of Jesus, along with some of the Choral Hymns from the Rig Veda, all in very good performances.
Whoops! Damn articles....thanks.
Thank you, David.
Thanks so much, this is all new to me. Having fun listening to all these versions.
I have always considered this to be Holst’s singular masterpiece versus The Planets as accepted by conventional wisdom. Thank you for giving this work the attention it deserves.
Bravo! Or should I say Amen? Beautiful presentation on an extraordinary musical experience.
Oh that CD you showed is fabulous! I love it! The Cloud Messenger is something else too.
Holst was seemingly an agnostic by personal belief, but like most unbelieving western composers, Holst wrote wonderful works in the sacred Christian idiom regardless. (Janacek was a confirmed atheist who nonetheless crafted the remarkable Glagolitic Mass, and of course there are many great “Christian” works written by Jewish composers). Fortunately, old Gus-TAV’s tendency to be a square peg in a round hole resulted in this Hymn, which may not be easily shunted into a genre, and is all the better for it. A compelling work of Christian ecstasy, despite being written by a non-Christian.
Very enjoyable discussion. This is a piece I came across many years ago and it is absolutely amazing, as you say. Other top 20th century choral works are Bernstein Mass, Britten War Requiem, also Britten's Cantata Academica, which does not get nearly enough attention.
Talking of Vaughan Williams’s Dona Nobis Pacem, I’d be very appreciative if you could talk about that work, sometime, please.
Love me some Charles Groves. A criminally underrated conductor.
I'll take the hint; "YES!!" and thank you for covering this.
Thanks for this David. You have helped me to realize that, in addition to my many favorites there are many wonderful musical compositions that I have not been aware of. You have introduced me to several of them.
My pleasure!
David, you're a star! Another great video on a great work.
I was a student in Liverpool back when Groves had the Philharmonic (orchestra, not pub, for you Liverpudlians). What I chiefly recall is how self-effacing he was on the podium, also how interesting concert programmes were back then. Mahler one week (a rarity in those days), premier of Rubbra's 8th Symphony the next. And rush tickets at a price even a student could easily afford.
Those who think Holst is a bit cold might try The Cloud Messenger. I find it very moving.
Loving this Holst series! For me, the pinnacle of his ‘spacey’ sound is his late, incredibly weird song Betelgeuse - similar in ethos if not sound to Schoenberg’s 2nd quartet. Would love to hear you dissect that one!
What an interesting talk!
Just listened to the "Hymn of Jesus" (Groves), afterwards to my beloved "Ode to Death" (also Groves). I'm not sure, which of the two I prefer. Of course, the "Hymn" is the more expansive work. But when I hear "Dark mother" in the "Ode", there's such a spine chilling power that I cannot resist.
Holst was a true genius, indeed, and I'm so grateful that not the "Planets" have been my first Holst-encounter but "Savitri" on a vinyl, long ago, because I read thet's the model for Britten's church operas. And it is...
Thanks for the talk, it was an inspiration to go back to my old love Gustav!
You're welcome. I heard Savitri right after The Planets, and I loved it because it was so totally different. Holst was like Mahler or Schoenberg in that he never repeated himself, but still always sounds like himself.
This is one of those pieces where the RUclips videos with full score come in handy. You're not going to learn the score obviously, but it's great to see who's doing what and where everything is going, and the "fains" are quite legible! :)
This masterpiece will be performed in the UK soon as 2024 will be Holst's anniversary! In addition, I recommend comparing his four masterpieces: "The Planets", "The Hymn of Jesus", "Ode to Death" and the cappella vocal chorus "This have I done for my true love". These four works were written at a similar time (1914-1919) and in the same place (the town of Thaxted, Essex); "Planets" and "Hymn of Jesus" were both drawn from mysticism (astrology vs Gnosticism); "The Hymn", "This Have I Done" and "Jupiter" show how mystery rituals, the dance, and festive jollity could perfectly interwoven.
8:06 in and love it
Have you ever seen/heard of a performance where the two choirs are "well separated" as Holst recommends? It would be difficult in most venues, but I have recommended it to a local choir which rehearses next to a church which could accommodate it.
I sang it at a choir festival back in 1990 and have been wanting to sing it again ever since.
Great talk, David. The first time I heard this piece, I was blown away! And - I have the EMI Groves recording! How about a 'Ten must-have Holst pieces' talk? Just a thought.....
Boy, did you nail THIS one! I can't imagine a better case being made for the greatness of this work. I recall my late brother..somewhat of a mystic himself, copying out Holst's entire text to aid him in listening. For both of us, it was BOULT all the way!....despite the slightly crude sonics. The great British choral singing (in '62) was still full, rich, and "manly" in sound (the ff "GLORY TO THEE" is astounding), Boult's pacing is superb, the placement of the semi-chorus--floating over the murmuring (spoken) chant of the full choruses--is flawlessly captured.
Groves' and Hickox's choruses, by comparison, are lightweight.
My problem with Groves (as always..sorry) is his overall lackadaisical reading; Hickox is terrific, but his reading is spoiled by a TOO FAST tempo of the recurring processional which, again, BOULT gets exactly right. This was another example of the solemn procession idea that Holst used in Saturn, Egdon Heath, etc., which loses its power if taken too quickly. Groves' recording, however, contains the awesome FUNERAL CHANT from the Rig-Veda Hymns (#2), a great bonus. I have the Boult "Hymn" in a 2-cd set from Decca ("The British Music Collection") which has LOTS of fabulous other stuff: the great Janet Baker/Imogen SAVITRI, Perfect Fool, Edgon H., etc
And I'm happy to report that the super-critical Imogen thought very highly of "The Hymn" except for one passage near the end ("Had ye known how to suffer"), in which she felt her dad lapsed back into a somewhat cheesy, Hollywood idiom. But .....this IS HOLST'S MASTERPIECE, and the musical world should thank you for your passionate, enlightening presentation. LR
Thanks! Yes, in that passage (about suffering) Holst commits the unpardonable crime of conveying the emotional sense of the text, rather than something more literally painful. But that is what pisses me off about Imogen generally--too often, she looks at each piece with the attitude of "this bar is great," "that bar is lousy," and there's no sense of the whole or the larger context.
Your description of the logistical difficulties involved in the work being better known (more often performed) put me in mind of Stravinsky's King of the Stars, for many of the same reasons--although in Stravinsky's case we're dealing with a mere 6 minutes! I wonder if you would consider it in the running for a Miniature Masterpiece? I think it is one, but I don't see myself going to the mat for it, either!
It's too long--I only allowed a 2 minute maximum.
Seiji Ozawa did this on TV with the Boston Symphony back in the 1970 's. I wonder if there's any way to access it on their archives?
I’m not seeing it immediately by searching Google or RUclips, but you could e-mail the BSO with an inquiry. Maybe you’ll get lucky and peak the interest of someone on staff.
THAT'S RIGHT! It was part of that incredible live concert series that included Ives' Fourth Symphony and Crumb's "Echoes of Time and the River"! A decade earlier, the BSO under Leinsdorf did a TV series which included Mahler 3 and 6, plus Schuller's "7 Studies on Themes of Paul Klee" (at which time their commercial RCA recordings were made). SO WHAT'S WITH THE BSO? WHEN ARE WE GOING TO SEE THESE?? LR
I recall seeing this posted here on RUclips a few years ago, but it isn't showing up now. That broadcast was the first time that I heard the piece.
@@HassoBenSoba BSO live is gradually releasing these on their streaming platform (which requires a subscription). I posted a link to a site that offers the Evening at Symphony that the Holst was on, but my post was deleted; which is just as well, given that the site wanted a ridiculous amount of money for an audio-only copy of the program when I contacted them. Your best bet is to send an email to Boston Symphony with a list of the broadcasts that you are interested in, and hope that it gets some consideration.
I sang in that performance! I never saw the broadcast, however.
Has anyone bought the box set of Holst works on Warner called The Collector's Edition? Any comments about it?
It's all the usual EMI stuff, mostly very good, but it's out of print at present.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you!
Fain I would be called a Holster when listening to Holst,
Fain I would be called an Oyster when listening to the many other beautiful sounds this world has to offer,
Fain all this will result in my mind becoming a pearl
Fain it will dissolve upon my soul's arrival in the better world
Fain would I drain the main vein after I riseth up and before I lieth down.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fain would I urgeth you to reconsider for fain would I watcheth another video of yours sometime tomorrow
@@davidbo8400 Fain doeth I my best, thee to satisfy (How d'ya like that contorted syntax!).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fain replieth i to thee none of our syntaxes so grotesquely contorted will stealeth Shakespeare's thunder, but who careth?
@@davidbo8400 Verily, not I!
hi, I wanted to ask you if you could recommend a version of A Summer Tale by Suk. I want to buy a record of this work, ¿but I don't know which one?
Please have a look at my review on ClassicsToday.com. I discuss a bunch of recordings pretty extensively. I love the work.
Did Imogen hate it?
You should ask her.
Includes celeste, piano and an organ; sound familiar!?! . . . I know; the similarities end right there.
No harmonium, though.
The Pines of Rome uses those three,; no Harmonium though
so not a fan of this work - i guess somebody has to not like it ! - i wonder if it is something that I hear missing that maybe Holst was striving for and didn't quite capture (?) - the whole piece feels like it is in some sort of spiritual limbo to me - one foot in chant, one foot in the English choral tradition, and a third foot in some Planets-type sound world - now I'm guessing I might have liked it very much (or even loved it) if he had shaped the whole piece within the style of the Planets sound universe - but fortunately for Holst enough classical music enthusiasts love this work so that my minority opinion will not be tipping any scales - Sir Donald Francis Tovey, I am not