I love the slow movement of the 1st violin concerto. Very haunting and mesmerising as the various sections are added like musical building blocks amid a slow building crescendo.
Based on the definitions of a melody repeated over and over, or a rhythm repeated over and over, Ravel's Bolero also comes to mind. Or, perhaps the scherzo from Bruckner's 8th.
When listening to maximal minimalism, such as the more extreme examples on your video, I'm reminded of the story about the lost person asking the old Mainer, "Say, Mister, where does this road go?" The answer: "Don't go nowhere. Stays right here."
Thanks - really thoughtful, fascinating talk. At the risk of getting shot down in flames, I've often thought Bruckner is proto-miniminalist (the Scherzo of the 9th for instance) he's use repetitive patterns to an almost OCD degree (his obsession with numerology). Can I also shout out a vocal piece by Steve Reich called Proverb that takes just 11 words from Wittgenstein 'How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life' and weaves it into a beautiful moving 14 minute work. Stunning.
Yes yes yes yes!! I love minimalism, and this video will surely widen my knowledge and hearing list. On another note: YAYYYYYY YOU MENTIONED INDONESIAN GAMELANN!!!! i want to claim my right to be overproud please. I don't know if you remember but I suggested to you some time ago to make a video about the influences of gamelan on western classical music. And although it's only a 'subtopic' in this video, I'm very happy that you spent time to explain it. Thank you so much Dave! With love from Indonesia ❤️🇮🇩❤️🇮🇩
Thanks for a really wide-ranging talk. I'm not sure if you know that I participated in Canto Ostinato's first New York performance, with four pianos, even! If you want a (relatively) short version pared down to a single piano, look for the recording by Ivo Janssen. The physical CD on VOID classics may be hard to source, but you easily can find it on RUclips or Spotify.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Canto Ostinato has a large and rather convoluted discography. For instance, trying to sort out all of the recordings involving Jeroen Van Veen (and various solo and ensemble configurations) is like untangling the Sviatoslav Richter discography...not an easy task!
This is a maximalist list of minimalist masterpieces! As someone with very little familiarity with these works, I really appreciate this user’s manual video and will refer back to it in the future. Many thanks Dave!
You covered all my favorite "minimalist" repertoire. I would also add the "occassional" minimalist, Ligeti, who has some pieces like the Continuum for Harpsichord or some etudes which are fundamentally minimalistic.
Thanks for this. In college, I was part of a chain gang of pianists organized by Steve Drury to play Vexations, so you brought back memories. Reich's Different Trains is one of my all-time favorites--the Kronos version would be within my "faves."
The longest version of Canto Ostinato I have heard was in the 90's in the city of Utrecht with the composer in the audience, and it lasted about 8 hours. Halfway we went eating in the city and when we returned we were refreshed for the last couple of hours to go. The same was true for the lesser known compositions Horizon and Lemniscaat by Simeon Ten Holt. Nowadays, it seems more convenient to fill a concert or CD with a length of 90 minutes, which makes the music too predictable IMHO. There is no surprise when the next section will take place.
I’m glad you mention the Ars Nova/Percurama ‘In C’. It’s great! Percurama has another one out that’s great: Per Nørgård’s ‘A light hour’, conducted and arranged by Gert Mortensen. In the curious department is Rued Langgard’s ‘Carl Nielsen, vor store komponist!’ (Carl Nielsen, our great composer!’ for choir and orchestra, where that’s all they sing for as long as you want. Needless to say, Langgard was being sarcastic. There, I said it anyway. Thanks for the recommendations!
My introduction to Philip Glass was via the post-punk rock band/album POLYROCK, which Glass produced. Then I heard Glassworks, though it was Koyaanisqatsi that caught my ear most. Other encounters with minimalism were rock oriented though: Brian Eno’s ambient music (Eno was very influenced by Glass), Robert Fripp’s League of Gentlemen, and Glenn Branca’s Symphony 1. I recall liking Michael Nyman’s The Piano soundtrack…for about five minutes. Classical-Minimalism music never really did it for me, though truthfully I’ve not paid much attention to the standards of its repertory, such as discussed in this video. Post-war Avante-garde-wise I do lean more towards Boulez (who’s music I know Mr. Hurwitz hates), Ligeti, Takemitsu, some Messiaen, etc), plus the progressive ends of jazz, rock, klezmer rather than the Glass-Reilly-Reich axis. I agree on Morton Feldman, and this was yet another informative and terrific video
I don't hate Boulez's music. That would require far more emotional energy than it deserves. Besides, there are a couple of pieces I really kind of mildly like (Rituel especially).
Really great video. I'm already a lover of Steve Reich (particularly Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices and Organ and Octet) and have the Glass Koyaanisquatsi on the surround sound DVD-A... now have a good idea of what to explore next. 👍🙂
I'm not the type of person to walk out during a live performance, but I once walked out on Morton Feldman. It was in the chamber hall of the National Auditorium in Madrid, Spain. The program consisted of a single work for piano lasting around 100 minutes. It basically went like this: Burst of sound. Silence. Burst of sound. Silence. Burst of Sound. Silence. And so on. After about half an hour, maybe sooneer, I said to myself: This ain't for me. So I quietly took off my shoes, took them in my hand and tiptoed my way out. There are many other things that are not for me, for instance Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. So I just close the book and say, Maybe a few years down the road, or maybe never, but not now.
This was a thoroughly engaging talk. The first John Adams work I got was Harmonium back in the mid-1980s. Just bought it on a whim. Luckily the next Adams album I bought also had Reich on it. This opened up a whole world I had no idea existed, one I too infrequently return to.
Thanks for getting me to start pulling my minimalist CDs off the shelf and listening to them for the first time in probably 30 years. I got into them in the 80s, listened to them a lot and then I guess the vagaries of interest drift left them behind. Today so much sounds familiar it can't help but bring up warm fuzzy nostalgic feelings, over and above the plain old enjoyability of the music. Reich, Glass and Adams was mostly what I'd gotten back then. Thanks also for the list of what to explore now.
I really enjoyed that and your enthusiasm Dave :) Of course you couldn’t mention everything but I know why you couldn’t! The late Andriessen might be interesting to some people - de Stijl etc further developing the rock and jazz elements and his operas are a bit more interesting than Glass’ more recent efforts. The influence on Ligeti (Abrahmsen is a ligeti student) and even Boulez (sur incises) is interesting. “Come un meccanismo di precisione” (hopefully I got that right, sorry Italians if not). I mean the influences seem to have gone two ways also - the Ligeti metronomes work is oddly very listenable to. I have sat through “Music in Twelve Parts” but never again - it’s not just the serialists who did basically academic exercises sometimes! Your Germans in black turtlenecks remind me of that Saturday Night Live character called Dieter who was exactly like that and reminds me of how much of this relates to electronics and dance culture from the 1970s on. I’m not sure what I think about “Schnee” either, but I’ve certainly already listened to that Storgards disc now at least 4 times, so that is presumably telling me something re underlying quality. It does, like Steve Reich, have a thought through structure (Canons) and also gets shorter, not longer, as it progresses which is interesting.
I was laughing about the gay Germans in turtlenecks too-maybe the younger ones became European dance music producers in a decade. There's some back and forth on exactly how much minimalism was an inspiration or a parallel development of how popular music would evolve post-Krautrock (and certainly the hated European avant-garde was influential to the likes of Faust/Can), but yeah, it's hard to listen to this and not think about parallel development in popular music at the same time.
Great talk on an interesting subject. I know this is not intended as an exhaustive list of composers in any way, but I just wanted to mention a composer here whom I enjoy quite a bit and who has some "originality", as far as minimalism permits that: Moondog. The closest thing that could ever be to an American Erik Satie.
My favorite (somewhat lapsed) minimalist is Michael Nyman, who is actually often credited with originally coining the term “minimalism” way back when. His scores for Peter Greenaway’s films in particular show that the form is capable of profound beauty and excitement. His opera based on The Tempest “Noises, Sounds, and Sweet Airs” is in my opinion his masterpiece. Give him a listen if you haven’t already!
Wonderful talk Dave. I’ve been a fan of Glass for years and more recently exploring Reich with the ECM set you featured. The 2 albums of Glass’ piano works played by Jenny Lin on the Steinway label are well worth a listen.
Thanks for this nice talk. Maybe you already know it, maybe you don't but an excellent example of Dutch minimalist music I think is Hoketus by Louis Andriessen preferably performed by Bang On A Can on Sony.
Great selection! And I find quite accurate to classify "Carmina Burana" as minimalism. I think that the second prelude from Op. 74 by Alexander Scriabin would also qualify as minimalism, with the thoroughly repeated parallel fifths in the bass and the perpetual melodic theme (with only minor changes of texture but no variation).
I remember sitting in a hall at the Adelaide Festival years ago with my much older German boyfriend, the minimalist composer C C C C C C Bach. I noticed that his turtleneck collar needed adjusting, and as I turned to fix it, noticed that Steve Reich was sitting directly behind me, clapping. (Half of this story is true)
I attended a wind ensemble concert at our local university today. The group performed David Maslanka's Symphony No. 8. What a fun performance! The concert was my first ever experience with any of Maslanka's pieces. All of the ostinati in the work reminded me of this talk and has me wondering what you think of the piece.
Great video Dave, I have to admit you threw me off with the inclusion of Glinka, but I get it. I also agree about Sibelius and Tapiola and you could even add the Night Ride section of that tone poem before the Sunrise. I would love more talks on Feldman especially, but why no mention of Louis Andriessen? I figured Workers Union or De Staat would have made your ideal list...great overview nonetheless!
Very interesting talk. Would you have included Webern ? I tend to think of him as a minimalist given the brevity or the extreme compression of his compositional output. Perhaps minimalism does not necessarily equate with brief highly condensed musical pieces. Would be interesting to hear your take on that. Great video David !
Definitely not Webern. He was a miniaturist, not a minimalist, especially since the very essence of his method avoids literal repetition. He tried to pack as much variety as he could into a very small space, and that's quite different from minimalism.
I dismissed the genre until I was taken ( against my will) to SATYAGRAHA (Glass) in Chicago and was CLUBBED SENSELESS. The hypnotic, trance- inducing nature of repetition turns out to work wonderfully in a theatrical setting. It producing a physical response as well, if you let it wash over you. Sitting and listening at home is challenging but greatly enhanced by an " herbal launching pad" ( if legal in your state). Thanks for this, as I admit my knowledge is limited to a few pieces by Glass and Reich. In the opera, Glass is becoming less and less minimal. Aknaten is almost a " normal" opera!
I’d add La Monte Young to this list. One of my great musical experiences was listening to an hour.s long performance by him in NYC. Also , Fellow commenter who mentioned Moondog deserves a shout out. That takes me back. We could also stray into jazz. There was so much interesting and crazy music in the sixties and beyond once you look at music without the labels and just listen
I think LMY despite his historical importance is one of those guys who absolutely hates recordings of his music and barely lets anything get released. Who knows why. Cage isn't a "true" minimalist but should probably be represented (even if it's sitting in total silence for 4'33") - I think everyone in the first wave of American minimalism more or less idolized him.
@@harrycornelius373 they sell for ridiculous amounts now, so if anyone wants to listen to LMY I recommend uh, "other ways" of getting his music that don't involve paying a Discogs collector $1500
I adore "Harmonielehre" and have a number of recordings of it. It's surprising, however, how often the percussion in the first movement tends to get lost.
This (rather late) comment regards film music by Satie. The 1924 film 'Entr'Acte' features music by Satie and in this film he composed music reminiscent of Philip Glass (decades before Glass was Glass). The video is on Vimeo and Satie's repetitious composition accompanies altered tempo film footage which anticipates Koyaanisqatsi, Powaqqatsi and Naqoyqatsi (and the filmmaker Godfrey Reggio too).
Tubular Bells is often considered the first true example of rock minimalism. At the time (1973) it was often compared to Riley, who was certainly an influence, altho Oldfield's score was constructed in the studio, whereas In C is fully realized only thru improvisation. Oldfield's subsequent work was much more fluid and doesnt qualify as minimalist.
To the Schnee theme of the last two composers I would love to add my favorite minimalist piano piece by Debussy, “Des pas sur la neige,” from of his first book of Preludes. It even might be a good candidate for your Miniature Masterpieces.
I love Glass and that's it. His Symphonies. OH, his violin concerto and quartets are also great. But the others not to my taste. By the way I also have the Glinka disc andI love it... Good talk Dave.
As a young lad I attended a "happening" in Minneapolis featuring John Cage, and I got to meet the great man and shake his hand. There may have been a performance of 4'33" but who would know? I don't recall.
WOW!! from two years ago. Don't know how I missed this one. Would you consider HOWARD SKEMPTON'S "Lento" to be minimalism music? It's basically the same tune over and over again. For some reason I've seemed to take a liking to it. C ya, Dave...
JL Adams is one of my favourite recordings. It was the first of his recordings that I bought simply because I liked the title. Then I listened to For Lou Harrison which got me into Harrison. You talk mention of landscape music in connection with Adams made me think of Sonic Seasonings by Wendy Carlos a very fun recording. Not exactly minimalist but close? How about a video on landscape music from Handel, Beethoven, Liszt to Adams and Carlos and all over the map. What are the different ways compeer approach landscape?
Does anyone agree that Bach's Prelude #1 in C Major (BWV 846) from W.T.C. is pretty darn minimalist? On the basis of this piece and others (Prelude from 1st Cello Suite, e.g.), we could potentially root (European) minimalism all the way bach to Bach.
Thank you for this talk. I have recently discovered your channel and love the informative and informed and funny reviews. Please keep going on and on about classical music, love the music and the fun. I really like Minimal [and ambient] music there are pieces here I know and new music and composers I need to investigate, and what more can a brilliant channel do, inform, educate and entertain. Thank you.
Thanks for this wonderful talk Dave! I have been waiting since I first stated watching you for this video. I was wondering if you are familiar with Glass' (now) 15 symphonies?
I've been waiting for this video for a long time! Minimalist music has been one of my great teen passions before I went back to listening mostly classical western music. I would like to add to your list La Monte Young and his fascinating Compositions (especially #5) and Louis Andriessen, who's "Workers Union" was truly revolutionary. I also would like to mention austrian living composer Bernhard Lang, who's style "broken disc-like" I like a lot, I think his opera "I Hate Mozart" is really something. Do you know him and what is your opinion in him? thanks, cheers!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Nah... that's pop music, a commercial spin off from what was originaly started by Neu!. In fact, La Dusseldorf was the later band of Klaus Dinger, a founding member of Neu! who basically 'invented' the 'motorik' or 'apache' style of drumming (or rather was the first to show that it could somehow be interesting.) There is a clear link between the German early seventies avant garde pop scene and modern minimal music. Michael Rother, the other member of Neu! and producer Conny Plank were very influential in substantiating this connection. Also people like Konrad Schnitzler, Dieter Moebius, Hans Joachim Roedelius, (Cluster, Harmonia) the early Kraftwerk and Manuel Götsching (in particular his inventions for electric guitar) played an important role. In Italy at the time works of particular importance were created by Roberto Cacciapaglia (in particular his Sonanza) and Franco Battiato (Click.) Then Brian Eno jumped on the bandwagon and took things even further and made it all commercial. The movement died as suddenly as it started in the mid eighties, when synthesizers became ever more accessible, and New Age took over, allowing a lot of people of very limited talent to produce some very boring music. Hans-Joachim Roedelius is probably the last and longest lasting protagonist of the creative era, still giving very minimalist improvised piano recitals in a very personal and recognizable style. (and great interviews too!) Michael Rother does not seem to be making new compositions anymore, but is increasingly recognized by famous guitarists around the world as a major influence for his innovative style of music making. More recently a 'drone' style has emerged, driven by the likes of Nils Frahm, Dustin O'Halloran and Adam Wiltzie (A Winged Victory for the Sullen) and others, that even made it to the BBC Proms! That style too is firmly rooted in the German minimalistic avant garde from the seventies. Anyway. Great talk of very wide ranging scope, with lots of great insights. So thanks a lot for that, David! Still, I think György Ligeti should be part of every discussion on minimal music.
I love this talk but I disagree with you that it is performer proof :-) I was in a performance of a minimalist work 'coming together'about the Attica riots, the performers lost track of where we were ended up getting hopelessly lost because there was no way to get back on track..
OK. "Almost" performer proof. I think I was pretty clear about how in this case--perhaps I should have said "interpretation proof" because I was thinking more of expression that technical execution.
I think I agree. Proper tempo seems vital. And it must be HELL on the orchestra. Wonder ( with Glass) how they keep track, since in the scores it often gives a pattern and a number ( 10 times, for example) I would think messing up would be a constant worry, after boredom and idiocy set in. Like how string players think of Bruckner as an arm killer with the constant, fast " chug chug chug" of tremelo.
I will forgive music virtually any transgression, but I draw the line at boring. Sorry, guys. I think of minimalism as the aural equivalent of those autostereograms that were once popularized under the moniker Magic Eye - a bunch of shifting patterns that don’t make much sense unless you stare at them long enough. Getting there - before zoning out - is the part I haven’t figured out yet...
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
The Polish master Henryk Górecki did wonderful minimalist orchestral and choral works
My absolute favourite work of Glass’ is his violin concerto. I just love that wood block in the finale! His piano etudes are great fun too.
I love the slow movement of the 1st violin concerto. Very haunting and mesmerising as the various sections are added like musical building blocks amid a slow building crescendo.
A great talk, I immediately dusted off my album of “A rainbow in curved air” by Terry Riley.
Thanks so much for this survey, which will expand my collection beyond Reich & Part!
Based on the definitions of a melody repeated over and over, or a rhythm repeated over and over, Ravel's Bolero also comes to mind. Or, perhaps the scherzo from Bruckner's 8th.
When listening to maximal minimalism, such as the more extreme examples on your video, I'm reminded of the story about the lost person asking the old Mainer, "Say, Mister, where does this road go?" The answer: "Don't go nowhere. Stays right here."
Thanks - really thoughtful, fascinating talk. At the risk of getting shot down in flames, I've often thought Bruckner is proto-miniminalist (the Scherzo of the 9th for instance) he's use repetitive patterns to an almost OCD degree (his obsession with numerology). Can I also shout out a vocal piece by Steve Reich called Proverb that takes just 11 words from Wittgenstein 'How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life' and weaves it into a beautiful moving 14 minute work. Stunning.
Yes yes yes yes!! I love minimalism, and this video will surely widen my knowledge and hearing list.
On another note: YAYYYYYY YOU MENTIONED INDONESIAN GAMELANN!!!! i want to claim my right to be overproud please. I don't know if you remember but I suggested to you some time ago to make a video about the influences of gamelan on western classical music. And although it's only a 'subtopic' in this video, I'm very happy that you spent time to explain it. Thank you so much Dave! With love from Indonesia ❤️🇮🇩❤️🇮🇩
It's my pleasure. Gamelan music is amazing--it really deserves a video of its own. I'll get to it. Kechak too.
Gamelan and Ketchak: I experienced it in Indonesia many, many years ago. Still a cherished memory of being overwhelmed by the impact.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Kechak needs to be a "How they did it piece., maybe paired with Spem in Alium. Both will give you whiplash on first hearing.
Thanks for a really wide-ranging talk. I'm not sure if you know that I participated in Canto Ostinato's first New York performance, with four pianos, even! If you want a (relatively) short version pared down to a single piano, look for the recording by Ivo Janssen. The physical CD on VOID classics may be hard to source, but you easily can find it on RUclips or Spotify.
Thanks Jed. That's great to know.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Canto Ostinato has a large and rather convoluted discography. For instance, trying to sort out all of the recordings involving Jeroen Van Veen (and various solo and ensemble configurations) is like untangling the Sviatoslav Richter discography...not an easy task!
This is a wonderful reference and I'm going to back to it from time to time.
This is a maximalist list of minimalist masterpieces! As someone with very little familiarity with these works, I really appreciate this user’s manual video and will refer back to it in the future. Many thanks Dave!
"Satie's Vexations" - Music for Ents! (Tolkien's slow-living tree-people-beings.)
You covered all my favorite "minimalist" repertoire. I would also add the "occassional" minimalist, Ligeti, who has some pieces like the Continuum for Harpsichord or some etudes which are fundamentally minimalistic.
Thanks for this. In college, I was part of a chain gang of pianists organized by Steve Drury to play Vexations, so you brought back memories.
Reich's Different Trains is one of my all-time favorites--the Kronos version would be within my "faves."
The longest version of Canto Ostinato I have heard was in the 90's in the city of Utrecht with the composer in the audience, and it lasted about 8 hours. Halfway we went eating in the city and when we returned we were refreshed for the last couple of hours to go. The same was true for the lesser known compositions Horizon and Lemniscaat by Simeon Ten Holt.
Nowadays, it seems more convenient to fill a concert or CD with a length of 90 minutes, which makes the music too predictable IMHO. There is no surprise when the next section will take place.
I’m glad you mention the Ars Nova/Percurama ‘In C’. It’s great! Percurama has another one out that’s great: Per Nørgård’s ‘A light hour’, conducted and arranged by Gert Mortensen. In the curious department is Rued Langgard’s ‘Carl Nielsen, vor store komponist!’ (Carl Nielsen, our great composer!’ for choir and orchestra, where that’s all they sing for as long as you want. Needless to say, Langgard was being sarcastic. There, I said it anyway. Thanks for the recommendations!
My introduction to Philip Glass was via the post-punk rock band/album POLYROCK, which Glass produced. Then I heard Glassworks, though it was Koyaanisqatsi that caught my ear most. Other encounters with minimalism were rock oriented though: Brian Eno’s ambient music (Eno was very influenced by Glass), Robert Fripp’s League of Gentlemen, and Glenn Branca’s Symphony 1. I recall liking Michael Nyman’s The Piano soundtrack…for about five minutes. Classical-Minimalism music never really did it for me, though truthfully I’ve not paid much attention to the standards of its repertory, such as discussed in this video. Post-war Avante-garde-wise I do lean more towards Boulez (who’s music I know Mr. Hurwitz hates), Ligeti, Takemitsu, some Messiaen, etc), plus the progressive ends of jazz, rock, klezmer rather than the Glass-Reilly-Reich axis. I agree on Morton Feldman, and this was yet another informative and terrific video
I don't hate Boulez's music. That would require far more emotional energy than it deserves. Besides, there are a couple of pieces I really kind of mildly like (Rituel especially).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Ouch!
Oh how I’d love to read the original version of your review of that ‘Music in 12 Parts’ concert!
Really great video. I'm already a lover of Steve Reich (particularly Music For Mallet Instruments, Voices and Organ and Octet) and have the Glass Koyaanisquatsi on the surround sound DVD-A... now have a good idea of what to explore next. 👍🙂
I'm not the type of person to walk out during a live performance, but I once walked out on Morton Feldman. It was in the chamber hall of the National Auditorium in Madrid, Spain. The program consisted of a single work for piano lasting around 100 minutes. It basically went like this: Burst of sound. Silence. Burst of sound. Silence. Burst of Sound. Silence. And so on. After about half an hour, maybe sooneer, I said to myself: This ain't for me. So I quietly took off my shoes, took them in my hand and tiptoed my way out.
There are many other things that are not for me, for instance Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace. So I just close the book and say, Maybe a few years down the road, or maybe never, but not now.
A great one
Wonderful Topic! Big Fan of the Canto Ostinato…. and of course Philip Glass and Reich! :)
This was a thoroughly engaging talk. The first John Adams work I got was Harmonium back in the mid-1980s. Just bought it on a whim. Luckily the next Adams album I bought also had Reich on it. This opened up a whole world I had no idea existed, one I too infrequently return to.
Thanks for getting me to start pulling my minimalist CDs off the shelf and listening to them for the first time in probably 30 years. I got into them in the 80s, listened to them a lot and then I guess the vagaries of interest drift left them behind. Today so much sounds familiar it can't help but bring up warm fuzzy nostalgic feelings, over and above the plain old enjoyability of the music. Reich, Glass and Adams was mostly what I'd gotten back then. Thanks also for the list of what to explore now.
I really enjoyed that and your enthusiasm Dave :) Of course you couldn’t mention everything but I know why you couldn’t! The late Andriessen might be interesting to some people - de Stijl etc further developing the rock and jazz elements and his operas are a bit more interesting than Glass’ more recent efforts. The influence on Ligeti (Abrahmsen is a ligeti student) and even Boulez (sur incises) is interesting. “Come un meccanismo di precisione” (hopefully I got that right, sorry Italians if not). I mean the influences seem to have gone two ways also - the Ligeti metronomes work is oddly very listenable to.
I have sat through “Music in Twelve Parts” but never again - it’s not just the serialists who did basically academic exercises sometimes! Your Germans in black turtlenecks remind me of that Saturday Night Live character called Dieter who was exactly like that and reminds me of how much of this relates to electronics and dance culture from the 1970s on.
I’m not sure what I think about “Schnee” either, but I’ve certainly already listened to that Storgards disc now at least 4 times, so that is presumably telling me something re underlying quality. It does, like Steve Reich, have a thought through structure (Canons) and also gets shorter, not longer, as it progresses which is interesting.
I was laughing about the gay Germans in turtlenecks too-maybe the younger ones became European dance music producers in a decade.
There's some back and forth on exactly how much minimalism was an inspiration or a parallel development of how popular music would evolve post-Krautrock (and certainly the hated European avant-garde was influential to the likes of Faust/Can), but yeah, it's hard to listen to this and not think about parallel development in popular music at the same time.
Great talk on an interesting subject. I know this is not intended as an exhaustive list of composers in any way, but I just wanted to mention a composer here whom I enjoy quite a bit and who has some "originality", as far as minimalism permits that: Moondog. The closest thing that could ever be to an American Erik Satie.
My favorite (somewhat lapsed) minimalist is Michael Nyman, who is actually often credited with originally coining the term “minimalism” way back when. His scores for Peter Greenaway’s films in particular show that the form is capable of profound beauty and excitement. His opera based on The Tempest “Noises, Sounds, and Sweet Airs” is in my opinion his masterpiece. Give him a listen if you haven’t already!
Wonderful talk Dave. I’ve been a fan of Glass for years and more recently exploring Reich with the ECM set you featured. The 2 albums of Glass’ piano works played by Jenny Lin on the Steinway label are well worth a listen.
Thanks for this nice talk. Maybe you already know it, maybe you don't but an excellent example of Dutch minimalist music I think is Hoketus by Louis Andriessen preferably performed by Bang On A Can on Sony.
Great selection! And I find quite accurate to classify "Carmina Burana" as minimalism. I think that the second prelude from Op. 74 by Alexander Scriabin would also qualify as minimalism, with the thoroughly repeated parallel fifths in the bass and the perpetual melodic theme (with only minor changes of texture but no variation).
Another interesting recent take on the genre is Max Richter's Sleep. I frequently use it to induce that very thing.
I remember sitting in a hall at the Adelaide Festival years ago with my much older German boyfriend, the minimalist composer C C C C C C Bach. I noticed that his turtleneck collar needed adjusting, and as I turned to fix it, noticed that Steve Reich was sitting directly behind me, clapping. (Half of this story is true)
Comparing the Koyaanisqatsi CD cover to the opening of Key & Peele was brilliant! That is cross-cultural virtuosity!
I attended a wind ensemble concert at our local university today. The group performed David Maslanka's Symphony No. 8. What a fun performance! The concert was my first ever experience with any of Maslanka's pieces. All of the ostinati in the work reminded me of this talk and has me wondering what you think of the piece.
I like a lot of his music.
Great video Dave, I have to admit you threw me off with the inclusion of Glinka, but I get it. I also agree about Sibelius and Tapiola and you could even add the Night Ride section of that tone poem before the Sunrise. I would love more talks on Feldman especially, but why no mention of Louis Andriessen? I figured Workers Union or De Staat would have made your ideal list...great overview nonetheless!
You have to draw the line somewhere, so I did. Andriessen never impressed me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fair enough
@@DavesClassicalGuide Hoketus by Andriessen is a certainly a masterpiece of some kind. Perhaps the lovechild of minimalism and rock.
@@phomchick I'll give it another shot.
This was a fabulous talk. Thank you!
You're very welcome.
Very interesting talk. Would you have included Webern ? I tend to think of him as a minimalist given the brevity or the extreme compression of his compositional output. Perhaps minimalism does not necessarily equate with brief highly condensed musical pieces. Would be interesting to hear your take on that. Great video David !
Definitely not Webern. He was a miniaturist, not a minimalist, especially since the very essence of his method avoids literal repetition. He tried to pack as much variety as he could into a very small space, and that's quite different from minimalism.
Thanks Dave for the clarification. Very interesting
Great stuff, thank you!
I dismissed the genre until I was taken ( against my will) to SATYAGRAHA (Glass) in Chicago and was CLUBBED SENSELESS. The hypnotic, trance- inducing nature of repetition turns out to work wonderfully in a theatrical setting. It producing a physical response as well, if you let it wash over you. Sitting and listening at home is challenging but greatly enhanced by an " herbal launching pad" ( if legal in your state). Thanks for this, as I admit my knowledge is limited to a few pieces by Glass and Reich. In the opera, Glass is becoming less and less minimal. Aknaten is almost a " normal" opera!
I’d add La Monte Young to this list. One of my great musical experiences was listening to an hour.s long performance by him in NYC. Also ,
Fellow commenter who mentioned Moondog deserves a shout out. That takes me back. We could also stray into jazz. There was so much interesting and crazy music in the sixties and beyond once you look at music without the labels and just listen
The problem with La Monte Young is the difficulty in sourcing recordings. He seems to have disappeared from the discography.
I think LMY despite his historical importance is one of those guys who absolutely hates recordings of his music and barely lets anything get released. Who knows why.
Cage isn't a "true" minimalist but should probably be represented (even if it's sitting in total silence for 4'33") - I think everyone in the first wave of American minimalism more or less idolized him.
@@samuelheddle As I recall head some self-produced recordings that were flogged at concerts. I remember buying one - which was stolen or lost
@@harrycornelius373 they sell for ridiculous amounts now, so if anyone wants to listen to LMY I recommend uh, "other ways" of getting his music that don't involve paying a Discogs collector $1500
I adore "Harmonielehre" and have a number of recordings of it. It's surprising, however, how often the percussion in the first movement tends to get lost.
This (rather late) comment regards film music by Satie. The 1924 film 'Entr'Acte' features music by Satie and in this film he composed music reminiscent of Philip Glass (decades before Glass was Glass). The video is on Vimeo and Satie's repetitious composition accompanies altered tempo film footage which anticipates Koyaanisqatsi, Powaqqatsi and Naqoyqatsi (and the filmmaker Godfrey Reggio too).
This subject of minimalism makes me wonder what you think of Tubular Bells? And how would you categorize it?
Tubular Bells is often considered the first true example of rock minimalism. At the time (1973) it was often compared to Riley, who was certainly an influence, altho Oldfield's score was constructed in the studio, whereas In C is fully realized only thru improvisation. Oldfield's subsequent work was much more fluid and doesnt qualify as minimalist.
To the Schnee theme of the last two composers I would love to add my favorite minimalist piano piece by Debussy, “Des pas sur la neige,” from of his first book of Preludes. It even might be a good candidate for your Miniature Masterpieces.
Who knew minimalism could be so interesting…
I love Glass and that's it. His Symphonies. OH, his violin concerto and quartets are also great. But the others not to my taste. By the way I also have the Glinka disc andI love it... Good talk Dave.
What are you apologizing for. I like a lot of them too.
As a young lad I attended a "happening" in Minneapolis featuring John Cage, and I got to meet the great man and shake his hand. There may have been a performance of 4'33" but who would know? I don't recall.
WOW!! from two years ago. Don't know how I missed this one. Would you consider HOWARD SKEMPTON'S "Lento" to be minimalism music? It's basically the same tune over and over again. For some reason I've seemed to take a liking to it. C ya, Dave...
JL Adams is one of my favourite recordings. It was the first of his recordings that I bought simply because I liked the title. Then I listened to For Lou Harrison which got me into Harrison. You talk mention of landscape music in connection with Adams made me think of Sonic Seasonings by Wendy Carlos a very fun recording. Not exactly minimalist but close? How about a video on landscape music from Handel, Beethoven, Liszt to Adams and Carlos and all over the map. What are the different ways compeer approach landscape?
Does anyone agree that Bach's Prelude #1 in C Major (BWV 846) from W.T.C. is pretty darn minimalist? On the basis of this piece and others (Prelude from 1st Cello Suite, e.g.), we could potentially root (European) minimalism all the way bach to Bach.
A Mollie Bloom "Yes!" for this video! Great breadth, although I was disappointed you did not include any mention of Aaron Jay Kernis.
Maybe because he's not a minimalist, although I enjoy a lot of his music.
Thank you for this talk. I have recently discovered your channel and love the informative and informed and funny reviews. Please keep going on and on about classical music, love the music and the fun. I really like Minimal [and ambient] music there are pieces here I know and new music and composers I need to investigate, and what more can a brilliant channel do, inform, educate and entertain. Thank you.
Thank you! Will do!
Thanks for this wonderful talk Dave! I have been waiting since I first stated watching you for this video. I was wondering if you are familiar with Glass' (now) 15 symphonies?
Yes, absolutely.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Do you have any particular favorites of Glass' symphonies?
I've been waiting for this video for a long time! Minimalist music has been one of my great teen passions before I went back to listening mostly classical western music.
I would like to add to your list La Monte Young and his fascinating Compositions (especially #5) and Louis Andriessen, who's "Workers Union" was truly revolutionary.
I also would like to mention austrian living composer Bernhard Lang, who's style "broken disc-like" I like a lot, I think his opera "I Hate Mozart" is really something. Do you know him and what is your opinion in him? thanks, cheers!
How far would a piece like Rheinita by La Düsseldorf fit in this category?
You tell me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Nah... that's pop music, a commercial spin off from what was originaly started by Neu!. In fact, La Dusseldorf was the later band of Klaus Dinger, a founding member of Neu! who basically 'invented' the 'motorik' or 'apache' style of drumming (or rather was the first to show that it could somehow be interesting.)
There is a clear link between the German early seventies avant garde pop scene and modern minimal music. Michael Rother, the other member of Neu! and producer Conny Plank were very influential in substantiating this connection. Also people like Konrad Schnitzler, Dieter Moebius, Hans Joachim Roedelius, (Cluster, Harmonia) the early Kraftwerk and Manuel Götsching (in particular his inventions for electric guitar) played an important role. In Italy at the time works of particular importance were created by Roberto Cacciapaglia (in particular his Sonanza) and Franco Battiato (Click.)
Then Brian Eno jumped on the bandwagon and took things even further and made it all commercial.
The movement died as suddenly as it started in the mid eighties, when synthesizers became ever more accessible, and New Age took over, allowing a lot of people of very limited talent to produce some very boring music.
Hans-Joachim Roedelius is probably the last and longest lasting protagonist of the creative era, still giving very minimalist improvised piano recitals in a very personal and recognizable style. (and great interviews too!) Michael Rother does not seem to be making new compositions anymore, but is increasingly recognized by famous guitarists around the world as a major influence for his innovative style of music making.
More recently a 'drone' style has emerged, driven by the likes of Nils Frahm, Dustin O'Halloran and Adam Wiltzie (A Winged Victory for the Sullen) and others, that even made it to the BBC Proms! That style too is firmly rooted in the German minimalistic avant garde from the seventies.
Anyway. Great talk of very wide ranging scope, with lots of great insights. So thanks a lot for that, David!
Still, I think György Ligeti should be part of every discussion on minimal music.
Could Ravel's Bolero be considered minimalist?
No. There's a difference between minimalism and mere repetition.
I love this talk but I disagree with you that it is performer proof :-) I was in a performance of a minimalist work 'coming together'about the Attica riots, the performers lost track of where we were ended up getting hopelessly lost because there was no way to get back on track..
OK. "Almost" performer proof. I think I was pretty clear about how in this case--perhaps I should have said "interpretation proof" because I was thinking more of expression that technical execution.
I think I agree. Proper tempo seems vital. And it must be HELL on the orchestra. Wonder ( with Glass) how they keep track, since in the scores it often gives a pattern and a number ( 10 times, for example) I would think messing up would be a constant worry, after boredom and idiocy set in. Like how string players think of Bruckner as an arm killer with the constant, fast " chug chug chug" of tremelo.
I will forgive music virtually any transgression, but I draw the line at boring. Sorry, guys. I think of minimalism as the aural equivalent of those autostereograms that were once popularized under the moniker Magic Eye - a bunch of shifting patterns that don’t make much sense unless you stare at them long enough. Getting there - before zoning out - is the part I haven’t figured out yet...