clarification: this is not a "why the bfb needs to be unnerfed" video, please read the description everyone that thinks that the bfb nerf should be reverted has not played against scouts running at 173% speed with 140 max hp and passive triple-jump back in 2014
...and pyros that can stunlock you while shooting you with a crit shotgun before killing you instantly with an axe, and constant fucking mini sentries, and blah blah blah...
honestly who was claiming this was the case with old bfb, if you rocket jump or sticky jump you go way faster than this and you still don't outrun the hitbox
@@cine-ish This has been disproven numerous times already. The code incorrectly sets the iron bomber's projectile, causing it to have a much bigger hitbox than stock.
@@maxwellbarker9761 wait a minute ok time to be a nerd He said "Just make it that it require 65 to 80 damage to lost all boost" the way he saying is a buff but if u think about something else pls tell me but yeah he should've meant 25 on the 65 part so I was right I think u can counter argument me and making me like a complete moron ok
Well this is amazing! I guess its just easier to believe that the weapon is broken than the fact that you just arent good enough to hit shots reliably on a fast target, especially when the target is the scout.
@@lev7509 The first lesson I taught my son about airbase was to keep your crosshair on the target that's shooting at you. It'll direct the Rocket's or Stickies or whatever back at them. This is difficult especially because a Competent soldier, who is still using rockets, will want to shoot at you from awkward angles that leave you unguarded in spots. It is a very skill based technic. And interesting as well.
i also tested this with cl_interp 0.1 but it didn't really change anything so i thought it was pointless to include though if you're talking about lag compensation from the perspective of the victim, then yes, higher interp time makes it feel like your hitboxes are rewinded even further, because the server has to also compensate for the attacker's view delay, otherwise the attacker would need to lead their shots
Can we bring back the old babyface now? Ik it was still really good even without hitbox lag, but like, I wanna run fast and not lose it all for 25 damage . . .
I wonder if people who complain that you lose all your boost in 25 damage realise you get it all back in a single shot, and it only takes 2 shots to kill 8/9 classes
@@fastcow7013 Yeah, but the scout also dies in 2 shots from most weapons, and scout heavily relies on his speed to get anything done. With the 10% reduced speed, he becomes a lower health engineer running around with a 4-shot shotgun.
@@fastcow7013 I mean you need to be close to someone to deal 100 damage and fill all your boost yet all they need is 2 SMG or pistol bullets and all your speed is gone. plus it's not easy to aim when you're 170% faster than the fastest class in the game
I way I though Valve could make the Baby Face’s Blaster good again is by simply making it so that 25 damage won’t decrease all of your boost and instead raise that damage threshold to...maybe...100 damage? This would make it so that you’ll be punished for not using your speed effectively and getting hit by a single grenade or rocket will make you lose your boost, rewarding the opponent for good aim and punishing you for failing at dodging.
Definitely needs an increase, but 100 is like 80% of Scout's health pool to deplete his boost from full. That's a bit too far in the other direction imo, maybe like 60-75 or something would be better?
@@captaingoomba6907 He would be fast enough to grab a medpack at 50% damage though. scouts rarely keep fighting against someone they clearly have no chance against
I genuinely thank you for enlightening us. Can I ask how can we just give a balanced buff to this weapon ? It's still my go to gun in pubs and I absolutely love this thing but it's way too punishing.
I still believe the meter should just degrade over a certain amount of time, so you need to constantly be in battle to stay fast but running or retreating will be at your slowest. You won't become slow through getting hurt, just your inactivity through combat. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee is basically the idea.
@@sirnarwhal9911 I think that won't cut it. Damage system is nice but as I said it's waay to punishing. And Its easy to get your boost bar filled. Maybe increase boost meter to 200 and increase damage to reduce boost at 100. Demo pipes and soldier rockets still hurt you but at least chip damage won't be a problem anymore.
The damage system was a good nerf on paper, you get to keep your boost if you're good enough to dodge with it, but you're not permanently at 173% movement speed. The amount of damage to empty your boost meter just needs to be upped to something, well, actually reasonable. Maybe like 60? That's about half of your health before you lose your boost, and considering boost is (relatively) easy to gain it seems fair imo
So they ruined a gun that was fun to use. Seriously, I do not understand why all kinds of damage have to affect your boost and in an exaggerated way, if you are on fire the weapon becomes a downgrade of the stock weapon and not satisfied with this you cannot double jump without punishing yourself
@@mikeyes620 I feel like it should take about 95 damage to remove your boost. And building boost should be slightly more faster, say a 2 point increase.
@@silverdededestruction2197 Rebalance suggestion: On Hit: Builds Boost, deal 200 damage to fully build your boost Run speed increase with boost -50% clip size Boost reduced by 100 on air jumps . Boost reduced when hit, takes 100 damage to fully remove your boost, however 2 afterburn damage = 1 normal damage, so it would take 200 afterburn damage to empty your boost. This way you wouldn't be as fast as a sonic by shooting at a heavy once and at the same time you won't lose all your speed due to that engineer sniping you with that pistol or even shotgun at the other side of the map, and tbh 3 shots is already great for a weapon that makes you so fast, since you'll have no problem reloading. Alternatively, double jumps can be just removed completely from the weapon
no, the point of this video is because a lot of people claim that the bfb was nerfed solely because of a bug, when in actuality the bug doesn't exist and it was nerfed purely for balancing reasons a lot of tf2 players today probably didn't get to experience it, but the previous version of the bfb was just busted: it didn't lose boost when damaged and lost only 25% boost on double jump everyone back then agreed that it was very overpowered, idk why people today want it back to that state
@@wgetJane I mean, yeah that sounds busted and all but still, in the other hand the weapon is very fun to use and I don't know why everybody says it's bad, you just need to be stealthy instead of well, the scout strat of going in kill someone and die
@@thepangoddess1914 scouts actually supposed to be a flank class anyway lol, thats why the backscatter is a great concept, it just wasnt delivered well but i still use it
@@wgetJane the nerf is understandable but the damage you need to take to slow down is minimal, they either revert it back forcing the scout to be able to jump only once and dealing much more damage to get to full speed, or they increase the damage you have to take to lose speed
it wasn't a myth, it was reality until they nerfed the bfb and made changes to lag compensation and hitbox integrity, this guy thinks artificial lag on a server he's running on his machine compares to a server with multiple people of varying latency connected to it
@@jimbojones5136 Nah, stop crying you just couldn't hit him. There is absolutely no proof of Scout outrunning his hitbox other than players missing and saying it must be because of a bug. Nothing has ever visually shown Scout outrunning his hitbox because of BFB. I would say git gud, but they nerfed the gun to the ground so you don't need to be good at all to counter it now.
Ok so that means we can go ahead and make the downsides less crippling right? For example: dealing 75 damage for full boost but then only 50 HP for a loss of full boost
@@hunlepto2239 i disagree, scout has 125 health, if scout needs 100 damage to lose his boost, might as well kill him to lose the boost, i think 50 to 75 works.
@@sire6265 Again, the scout would need alot of damage first which is risky without the boost. And if you look at most classes in the game, they can easily do 100 damage with 1-2 hits or in a few seconds. Maybe 75 for boost and loss would be fair too, but 50 would be way too low.
@@hunlepto2239 It's risky if you're just using the scattergun, but remember: All weapons fill your boost meter, that's the whole reason Speed 'N Bleed works. If you pack a Pistol/Cleaver/Wrap Assassin you can gain boost over longer distances where it's safer, mitigating the risk in exchange for aim
I'm curious, I know you've said this video isn't intended as an argument to bring back the old BFB, but do you think it deserves some tweaks/a rework? I've thought about this for a bit, and it just seems poorly designed in a similar vein to the YER. I love the model and the theme of the weapon; deal damage to become extremely fast but lose it all if you don't dodge properly, but it's a huge pain in the ass to have to change your muscle memory around for one specific weapon that neuters a class' main mechanic (cloak/double jump). I think risk/reward weapons should be direct upgrades at full power, and both this and the YER hamper the player even in their optimal situations. The Bazaar Bargain comes to mind as a pretty good sidegrade if not an upgrade for the best snipers. I think removing the double jump penalty wouldn't break the weapon personally, since downsides still include 10% reduced movement speed at base and the clip reduction.
I heard someone else’s idea and I thought it was neat. They said, your boost would drain over time, so you would have to keep running in and getting shots on the enemy to keep your boost up. Not sure on exact stats, but I think that’s a pretty good framework for a weapon.
From what Im thinking, it would have to be a deliberate design decision to allow the ability for the hitbox to lag behind the player model or even move separate from the model at all. I mean you can hear 'player model' and 'hitbox', and view them as separate things because they're handled differently in the source engine, but they should be tied directly to the player position which is just a point in 3d space. If anything, all the server should send and receive would be player positions and their respective class / item choices, receiving a separate hitbox position would just be a waste of memory, and it would make the code more complicated.
I find it interesting how many people believe that Scout got nerfed because of a supposed hitbox bug. Valve themselves know that this bug was a myth, they're not going to nerf anything because of that. It was nerfed because it was simply too damn fast. It's not fun to deal with Scouts at that point, at all. And I say that as someone who plays Scout a lot.
So because a mechanic was annoying to fight they nerf an entire weapon to the point it is effectively a downgrade to stock? I'm sorry, but that's a dumb decision.
@@randoshmuckarias1296 SoundSmith didn't create the rumour. It'd been around for ages before he said anything about it tbh. Baby-face was nerfed back in 2015 during Gun Mettle, whereas Weapon Stereotypes a thing starting in 2017. Unless, of course, he said it somewhere else I missed, in which case nevermind, but if the video you're talking about is Weapon Stereotypes the Baby-face rumour was around for years before then.
i think it's partly the frame rate *and themselves* tricking them into thinking it's the game cause headshots aren't always instant as it needs to verify with the server before playing the animation.
And what if hitbox of someone who runs in 1 direction is something that simply gets extrapolated, and the real problems of dragging behind happen when someone rapidly changes movement in opposite directions?
To me the current BFB is actually fine. I just think it needs to be more forgiving with the boost reduction when taking damage. Maybe have that boost reduction only apply for bullet type damage, so that only Hitscan, Arrows and i think Syringes lower your boost. Or just increase the damage necessary to go from 100% back to 0. I think it's a good choice to be punished for not being able to dodge stuff at 173% speed, but it's a bit frustrating when Soldiers, Demos and especially Pyros can easily hit you without much effort.
The main issue is if a scout at max speed with the baby face blaster starts lagging a decent amount they will not be lag comped. Src engine doesn't lag comp people who "teleport" over 4096 units.
I have two idea on how to fix BFB so it's fun agian but also not overpowered. Idea #1: - Remove the boost loss on hit. - Boost slowly drains overtime. - Boost drains quickly when the weapon is holstered. - Decrease reserve ammo from 32 to 16. Idea #2: - Boost lost on hit is deceased from 4% per point of damage taken to like 1% or 2%. - Decrease the boost loss on air jump from 75% to 25% - 75% boost lost when holstering the BFB.
I left tf2 after meet your match. Came back and they utterly fucked my entire scout loadout. BFB, sandman, cleaver. Garbage, garbage and washed up has been of a weapon it once was.
I don't like the current BFB, but I don't want the busted pre-nerf BFB. I want the the return of the on-release BFB, as cruel and unforgiving as it is.
Tf2 does have issues with any class sometimes having their hit box effectively slightly behind their model due to latency. Going nearly twice as fast makes this more noticable. Thats my hypothesis for why this rumour exists, laggy scouts all using the meta weapon for the time so it was extra noticable and people just assumed scout was the issue, pribably because scout was extra annoyong at the time.
the player model (on the client) and hitboxes (on the server) can be desync if the user experiences high packet loss (so they can't get updated info of enemy player positions) or if the user sets bad network settings: ruclips.net/video/Wxt7XB15CFw/видео.html this video disproves the common claim that the bfb alone causes hitbox desync
@@wgetJane is there's a update note in the Gun Mettle Update that says why the bfb was nerfed? (i know, the gun was very unfun to fight against, i just want a official text that says it)
@@nissanv1663 valve didn't really explain their balance changes back then though very early on, they've made blog posts for specific mechanics, for example... crit heals: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1656 stickybomb damage: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2253 sandvich: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670
@@gangstascout3593 nah there are 2 different hitboxes. 1 for projectiles and one for hitscan. If you want a good idea of how much bigger the projectile hitbox is, go on TR walkway and hit a scout running straight at you with the grenade launcher. Aim a bit to the left and it'll still hit him, whereas if you try the same thing with the sniper rifle you won't hit the scout.
@@gangstascout3593 The hitscan hitbox is the same size as the actual character model while the projectile hitbox is just a huge cube surrounding the model. Which explains why huntsman headshots have weird hit detection compared to hitscan rifle headshot.
It might just be that when the Scout teleports, his hitbox is reset to the same position his model is. When people say his hitbox "lags" behind his model, they probably don't mean that it goes a set distance behind him and doesn't keep falling behind, they mean that his hitbox just literally travels slower than him. Assuming teleporting the Scout "resets" his hitbox, then it might be more accurate to have the Scout run for much longer without teleporting him before shooting.
that makes even less sense because the player's hitboxes isn't a separate entity from the player, so why would it have a different velocity? the player has "bones" (head, pelvis, foot, etc) and each can have a hitbox the hitboxes are part of the player's model, not a separate thing merely following the player
@@whirl3690 I looked around for a tad bit. On RUclips the latest video I could find of someone saying this was a video by Ace TheOcarinaMaker, more recently FishStickOnAStick also said this in his baby face blaster video. On google the lastest search I could find was a reddit page on r/tf2 where somone 6 years ago wrote an essay on why the baby face blaster was overpowered and their third point to their argument they said that the hitbox can be separated from the player model and that it's a "problem with the source engine." And there is probably more, I found all this in 10 minutes and that guy in the reddit post either was making stuff up by mistake or more likely, he saw another post that had the same statement about Bfb so the origin of the Bfb hitbox lag could be older than 6 years ago. Edit: SoundSmith tf2 also said this in his weapon stereotypes video for scout, it would be interesting to find the source for this cause its a piece of information that's been recited a lot.
So rather than fix the hitbox issue they just completely shitted on the weapon? I mean, I hate scouts but you might as well nerf rocket jumping/trimping because you move WAAAAAY faster that way
How can you think you can just comment this on a video showing proof of the hitboxes not being broken? You are literally watching proof that that's not the case, but still insist it is. Nothing is wrong with Scouts hitbox, something's wrong with your aiming. Get better at aiming and stop trying to make shit up in the comments of a video proving you wrong.
clarification: this is not a "why the bfb needs to be unnerfed" video, please read the description
everyone that thinks that the bfb nerf should be reverted has not played against scouts running at 173% speed with 140 max hp and passive triple-jump back in 2014
To be fair the Atomizer's been nerfed so you need to hold it out while triple jumping, and the Pretty Boy's doesn't give a health bonus anymore
@@deeplyt00ting since when was the pretty boy not giving a health bonus anymore?
@@potatoslayer69420 Since like, 2015, the removed the +15 max health like, ages ago.
@@potatoslayer69420 2015, have you played the fucking game?
...and pyros that can stunlock you while shooting you with a crit shotgun before killing you instantly with an axe, and constant fucking mini sentries, and blah blah blah...
honestly who was claiming this was the case with old bfb, if you rocket jump or sticky jump you go way faster than this and you still don't outrun the hitbox
probably some jackass that cant aim for shit, causing the BFB to be nerfed to hell
@@gilgameszh The bfb was a stupid fun weapon back in the day, then they made us objectively useless and a downgrade to literally anything
Same people who said Iron Bomber is more "aerodynamically predicable".
@@Thomas-vn6cr in theory it "should" be due to the way physics are handled but I hit consistently with stock vs iron bomber.
@@cine-ish This has been disproven numerous times already. The code incorrectly sets the iron bomber's projectile, causing it to have a much bigger hitbox than stock.
I am amazed how through this is, you even tested ping AND the older versions of TF2, respect.
Can we send this to valve and get the BFB unnerfed?
@DamnMerasmus boost goes down when you have less than 60% health
@@Politictrolerandenthusiast yeah coz you lost it miserably
@@maxwellbarker9761 yeah it's probably because that I didnt see "just make it" and I am a smaol brain wish i die
@@maxwellbarker9761 wait a minute ok time to be a nerd
He said "Just make it that it require 65 to 80 damage to lost all boost" the way he saying is a buff but if u think about something else pls tell me but yeah he should've meant 25 on the 65 part so I was right I think u can counter argument me and making me like a complete moron ok
@@maxwellbarker9761 no ok u accept defeat I guess
Well this is amazing! I guess its just easier to believe that the weapon is broken than the fact that you just arent good enough to hit shots reliably on a fast target, especially when the target is the scout.
And of course, PyRo iS Op nO SkIlL ClAsS
C'mon, any somewhat competent Scout/Sniper/Heavy can deal with Pyro.
@@lev7509 The first lesson I taught my son about airbase was to keep your crosshair on the target that's shooting at you. It'll direct the Rocket's or Stickies or whatever back at them.
This is difficult especially because a Competent soldier, who is still using rockets, will want to shoot at you from awkward angles that leave you unguarded in spots.
It is a very skill based technic. And interesting as well.
@@macabweu7682 And of course, if you see a bottomless pit behind your opponent, M2.
that scout has horrible lag, he keeps rubber banding.
I can see someone getting wooshed
@@bigbanana9383 Stfu redditor
@@Toons595 reddit bad!1!1!1!111
@@inaki5989 Yes.
Iñaki as someone who used to use Reddit, yes.
default lerp in tf2 is 100~
i also tested this with cl_interp 0.1 but it didn't really change anything so i thought it was pointless to include
though if you're talking about lag compensation from the perspective of the victim, then yes, higher interp time makes it feel like your hitboxes are rewinded even further, because the server has to also compensate for the attacker's view delay, otherwise the attacker would need to lead their shots
Can we bring back the old babyface now? Ik it was still really good even without hitbox lag, but like, I wanna run fast and not lose it all for 25 damage . . .
I wonder if people who complain that you lose all your boost in 25 damage realise you get it all back in a single shot, and it only takes 2 shots to kill 8/9 classes
@@fastcow7013 Yeah, but the scout also dies in 2 shots from most weapons, and scout heavily relies on his speed to get anything done. With the 10% reduced speed, he becomes a lower health engineer running around with a 4-shot shotgun.
@Mr. Man he also has a teleporter, dispenser, and sentry that he doesn’t lose cause of 25 damage
@@fastcow7013 I mean you need to be close to someone to deal 100 damage and fill all your boost yet all they need is 2 SMG or pistol bullets and all your speed is gone.
plus it's not easy to aim when you're 170% faster than the fastest class in the game
@@Rising_Lightning Plus the gunslinger, and the general fact of him being a more defensive-oriented class than scout.
why aren't you working on Valve's Q&A team? How is it possible that the hitbox lag claim gained so much traction withouth ANY refutation from valve?
Valve is too busy delaying Half-Life 3 and printing money from selling other people's games.
I way I though Valve could make the Baby Face’s Blaster good again is by simply making it so that 25 damage won’t decrease all of your boost and instead raise that damage threshold to...maybe...100 damage? This would make it so that you’ll be punished for not using your speed effectively and getting hit by a single grenade or rocket will make you lose your boost, rewarding the opponent for good aim and punishing you for failing at dodging.
It would be a good change. Deal 100 damage to get boost, take 100 damage and lose it.
scout has 125 health, so... he needs to be nearly dead to fan out his boost?
Definitely needs an increase, but 100 is like 80% of Scout's health pool to deplete his boost from full. That's a bit too far in the other direction imo, maybe like 60-75 or something would be better?
@@captaingoomba6907 He would be fast enough to grab a medpack at 50% damage though. scouts rarely keep fighting against someone they clearly have no chance against
@@johnt3606 Fair point, maybe 55 or something seems better then?
I genuinely thank you for enlightening us. Can I ask how can we just give a balanced buff to this weapon ? It's still my go to gun in pubs and I absolutely love this thing but it's way too punishing.
I still believe the meter should just degrade over a certain amount of time, so you need to constantly be in battle to stay fast but running or retreating will be at your slowest. You won't become slow through getting hurt, just your inactivity through combat. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee is basically the idea.
@@sirnarwhal9911 I think that won't cut it. Damage system is nice but as I said it's waay to punishing. And Its easy to get your boost bar filled. Maybe increase boost meter to 200 and increase damage to reduce boost at 100. Demo pipes and soldier rockets still hurt you but at least chip damage won't be a problem anymore.
i don't know who though 25 damage was a good idea, any class can just chip that away so easily it makes the weapon so discouraging to use.
The damage system was a good nerf on paper, you get to keep your boost if you're good enough to dodge with it, but you're not permanently at 173% movement speed. The amount of damage to empty your boost meter just needs to be upped to something, well, actually reasonable. Maybe like 60? That's about half of your health before you lose your boost, and considering boost is (relatively) easy to gain it seems fair imo
So they ruined a gun that was fun to use.
Seriously, I do not understand why all kinds of damage have to affect your boost and in an exaggerated way, if you are on fire the weapon becomes a downgrade of the stock weapon and not satisfied with this you cannot double jump without punishing yourself
Yeah, I feel the amount of damage needed to lower your boost should be nerfed to twice as much.
And also remove the double jump drain mechanic
@@theuserjoan That might be a bit much, imagine a max boost scout, randomly jumping around you as a heavy. Scary.
@@mikeyes620 I feel like it should take about 95 damage to remove your boost. And building boost should be slightly more faster, say a 2 point increase.
@@silverdededestruction2197 Rebalance suggestion:
On Hit: Builds Boost, deal 200 damage to fully build your boost
Run speed increase with boost
-50% clip size
Boost reduced by 100 on air jumps
.
Boost reduced when hit, takes 100 damage to fully remove your boost, however 2 afterburn damage = 1 normal damage, so it would take 200 afterburn damage to empty your boost.
This way you wouldn't be as fast as a sonic by shooting at a heavy once and at the same time you won't lose all your speed due to that engineer sniping you with that pistol or even shotgun at the other side of the map, and tbh 3 shots is already great for a weapon that makes you so fast, since you'll have no problem reloading.
Alternatively, double jumps can be just removed completely from the weapon
so, you are telling me that my favorite scout weapon got nerfed for no reason at all?
no, the point of this video is because a lot of people claim that the bfb was nerfed solely because of a bug, when in actuality the bug doesn't exist and it was nerfed purely for balancing reasons
a lot of tf2 players today probably didn't get to experience it, but the previous version of the bfb was just busted: it didn't lose boost when damaged and lost only 25% boost on double jump
everyone back then agreed that it was very overpowered, idk why people today want it back to that state
@@wgetJane I mean, yeah that sounds busted and all but still, in the other hand the weapon is very fun to use and I don't know why everybody says it's bad, you just need to be stealthy instead of well, the scout strat of going in kill someone and die
@@thepangoddess1914 scouts actually supposed to be a flank class anyway lol, thats why the backscatter is a great concept, it just wasnt delivered well but i still use it
@@wgetJane the nerf is understandable but the damage you need to take to slow down is minimal, they either revert it back forcing the scout to be able to jump only once and dealing much more damage to get to full speed, or they increase the damage you have to take to lose speed
hope you don't mind me asking, but what's your pfp from?
so it's a myth . for the longest time i thought it was true but good to know it was never true but we just need to git gud .
it wasn't a myth, it was reality until they nerfed the bfb and made changes to lag compensation and hitbox integrity, this guy thinks artificial lag on a server he's running on his machine compares to a server with multiple people of varying latency connected to it
@@jimbojones5136
Nah, stop crying you just couldn't hit him. There is absolutely no proof of Scout outrunning his hitbox other than players missing and saying it must be because of a bug. Nothing has ever visually shown Scout outrunning his hitbox because of BFB. I would say git gud, but they nerfed the gun to the ground so you don't need to be good at all to counter it now.
These are as interesting as Shounic's videos
Ok so that means we can go ahead and make the downsides less crippling right?
For example: dealing 75 damage for full boost but then only 50 HP for a loss of full boost
100 damage for full boost and 100 damage for loss of full boost would be the most balanced tbh.
@@hunlepto2239 i disagree, scout has 125 health, if scout needs 100 damage to lose his boost, might as well kill him to lose the boost, i think 50 to 75 works.
@@sire6265 Again, the scout would need alot of damage first which is risky without the boost. And if you look at most classes in the game, they can easily do 100 damage with 1-2 hits or in a few seconds. Maybe 75 for boost and loss would be fair too, but 50 would be way too low.
@@hunlepto2239 It's risky if you're just using the scattergun, but remember: All weapons fill your boost meter, that's the whole reason Speed 'N Bleed works. If you pack a Pistol/Cleaver/Wrap Assassin you can gain boost over longer distances where it's safer, mitigating the risk in exchange for aim
reupload for that little bit at the end of the desc?
i reuploaded it to add clips i've recorded from a pre-gun mettle build of the game 2:07
I'm curious, I know you've said this video isn't intended as an argument to bring back the old BFB, but do you think it deserves some tweaks/a rework? I've thought about this for a bit, and it just seems poorly designed in a similar vein to the YER. I love the model and the theme of the weapon; deal damage to become extremely fast but lose it all if you don't dodge properly, but it's a huge pain in the ass to have to change your muscle memory around for one specific weapon that neuters a class' main mechanic (cloak/double jump). I think risk/reward weapons should be direct upgrades at full power, and both this and the YER hamper the player even in their optimal situations. The Bazaar Bargain comes to mind as a pretty good sidegrade if not an upgrade for the best snipers. I think removing the double jump penalty wouldn't break the weapon personally, since downsides still include 10% reduced movement speed at base and the clip reduction.
I heard someone else’s idea and I thought it was neat. They said, your boost would drain over time, so you would have to keep running in and getting shots on the enemy to keep your boost up. Not sure on exact stats, but I think that’s a pretty good framework for a weapon.
You mean that Valve fucking nerfed the weapon without even trying to investigate the claims that it was faulty?
Even if there was a broken hitbox, couldn't Valve just fix it instead of making the weapon useless?
From what Im thinking, it would have to be a deliberate design decision to allow the ability for the hitbox to lag behind the player model or even move separate from the model at all.
I mean you can hear 'player model' and 'hitbox', and view them as separate things because they're handled differently in the source engine, but they should be tied directly to the player position which is just a point in 3d space.
If anything, all the server should send and receive would be player positions and their respective class / item choices, receiving a separate hitbox position would just be a waste of memory, and it would make the code more complicated.
We need to get the BFB un nerfed soon!
theyll buff it in the heavy update
i hope they would just revert it to when you lost all your boost when you jumped
@@shrekconfirmed5456funniest joke I have ever seen
I find it interesting how many people believe that Scout got nerfed because of a supposed hitbox bug. Valve themselves know that this bug was a myth, they're not going to nerf anything because of that. It was nerfed because it was simply too damn fast. It's not fun to deal with Scouts at that point, at all. And I say that as someone who plays Scout a lot.
So because a mechanic was annoying to fight they nerf an entire weapon to the point it is effectively a downgrade to stock? I'm sorry, but that's a dumb decision.
@@load-bearingcoconut5586 Adding an annoying weapon was the dumb decision, so this is the undoing of said dumb decision.
It was soundsmith who spread the rumor in his video. Dude talks out of his ass all of the time
@@load-bearingcoconut5586 It's a dumb decision for sure, but like... this is Valve. They do this a lot.
@@randoshmuckarias1296 SoundSmith didn't create the rumour. It'd been around for ages before he said anything about it tbh. Baby-face was nerfed back in 2015 during Gun Mettle, whereas Weapon Stereotypes a thing starting in 2017.
Unless, of course, he said it somewhere else I missed, in which case nevermind, but if the video you're talking about is Weapon Stereotypes the Baby-face rumour was around for years before then.
i think it's partly the frame rate *and themselves* tricking them into thinking it's the game cause headshots aren't always instant as it needs to verify with the server before playing the animation.
And what if hitbox of someone who runs in 1 direction is something that simply gets extrapolated, and the real problems of dragging behind happen when someone rapidly changes movement in opposite directions?
extrapolation only happens when there is too much packet loss for interpolation to work
To me the current BFB is actually fine.
I just think it needs to be more forgiving with the boost reduction when taking damage.
Maybe have that boost reduction only apply for bullet type damage, so that only Hitscan, Arrows and i think Syringes lower your boost.
Or just increase the damage necessary to go from 100% back to 0.
I think it's a good choice to be punished for not being able to dodge stuff at 173% speed, but it's a bit frustrating when Soldiers, Demos and especially Pyros can easily hit you without much effort.
The main issue is if a scout at max speed with the baby face blaster starts lagging a decent amount they will not be lag comped. Src engine doesn't lag comp people who "teleport" over 4096 units.
the max speed a scout can run is nowhere close to 4096 units and 4096 units is a relatively massive distance in any tf2 map
you can't teleport more than speed/(23/66) units stupid
I have two idea on how to fix BFB so it's fun agian but also not overpowered.
Idea #1:
- Remove the boost loss on hit.
- Boost slowly drains overtime.
- Boost drains quickly when the weapon is holstered.
- Decrease reserve ammo from 32 to 16.
Idea #2:
- Boost lost on hit is deceased from 4% per point of damage taken to like 1% or 2%.
- Decrease the boost loss on air jump from 75% to 25%
- 75% boost lost when holstering the BFB.
I left tf2 after meet your match. Came back and they utterly fucked my entire scout loadout. BFB, sandman, cleaver. Garbage, garbage and washed up has been of a weapon it once was.
okay
How make this crosshare???
I don't like the current BFB, but I don't want the busted pre-nerf BFB. I want the the return of the on-release BFB, as cruel and unforgiving as it is.
the sniper is a god ngl
Tf2 does have issues with any class sometimes having their hit box effectively slightly behind their model due to latency. Going nearly twice as fast makes this more noticable. Thats my hypothesis for why this rumour exists, laggy scouts all using the meta weapon for the time so it was extra noticable and people just assumed scout was the issue, pribably because scout was extra annoyong at the time.
what "outurns his own hitbox" means?
isn't the player technically his own hitbox?
how broken a game need to be to allow that?
the player model (on the client) and hitboxes (on the server) can be desync if the user experiences high packet loss (so they can't get updated info of enemy player positions) or if the user sets bad network settings: ruclips.net/video/Wxt7XB15CFw/видео.html
this video disproves the common claim that the bfb alone causes hitbox desync
@@wgetJane is there's a update note in the Gun Mettle Update that says why the bfb was nerfed? (i know, the gun was very unfun to fight against, i just want a official text that says it)
@@nissanv1663 valve didn't really explain their balance changes back then
though very early on, they've made blog posts for specific mechanics, for example...
crit heals: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1656
stickybomb damage: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2253
sandvich: teamfortress.com/post.php?id=1670
@@wgetJane well, thanks for take the time to answer
So it IS a myth!
The wrangler would be the same result. Just. Harder.
BUFF THE BFB VALVE
Valve pls fix
I read that in 3kliksphilips voice
agreed Dr Bennett
This is the biggest tf2 bruh moment ever
Hey can you test this with projectile hitboxes?
they are literaly the same thing
@@gangstascout3593 nah there are 2 different hitboxes. 1 for projectiles and one for hitscan. If you want a good idea of how much bigger the projectile hitbox is, go on TR walkway and hit a scout running straight at you with the grenade launcher. Aim a bit to the left and it'll still hit him, whereas if you try the same thing with the sniper rifle you won't hit the scout.
@@cfdeers then that means anything hitscan can hit projectiles can also hit
@@gangstascout3593 The hitscan hitbox is the same size as the actual character model while the projectile hitbox is just a huge cube surrounding the model. Which explains why huntsman headshots have weird hit detection compared to hitscan rifle headshot.
How did you use the older version of the weapon?
github.com/SteamRE/DepotDownloader
100 is big ping? 😭
It might just be that when the Scout teleports, his hitbox is reset to the same position his model is.
When people say his hitbox "lags" behind his model, they probably don't mean that it goes a set distance behind him and doesn't keep falling behind, they mean that his hitbox just literally travels slower than him.
Assuming teleporting the Scout "resets" his hitbox, then it might be more accurate to have the Scout run for much longer without teleporting him before shooting.
that makes even less sense because the player's hitboxes isn't a separate entity from the player, so why would it have a different velocity?
the player has "bones" (head, pelvis, foot, etc) and each can have a hitbox
the hitboxes are part of the player's model, not a separate thing merely following the player
Then how did the "Scout outrunning his hitbox" ever come to be?
@@whirl3690 I looked around for a tad bit. On RUclips the latest video I could find of someone saying this was a video by Ace TheOcarinaMaker, more recently FishStickOnAStick also said this in his baby face blaster video. On google the lastest search I could find was a reddit page on r/tf2 where somone 6 years ago wrote an essay on why the baby face blaster was overpowered and their third point to their argument they said that the hitbox can be separated from the player model and that it's a "problem with the source engine."
And there is probably more, I found all this in 10 minutes and that guy in the reddit post either was making stuff up by mistake or more likely, he saw another post that had the same statement about Bfb so the origin of the Bfb hitbox lag could be older than 6 years ago.
Edit: SoundSmith tf2 also said this in his weapon stereotypes video for scout, it would be interesting to find the source for this cause its a piece of information that's been recited a lot.
@@whirl3690 People just couldn't aim, and therefore blamed it on the hitbox instead of the weapon's stats.
@@whirl3690 because it was that hard to hit a fast moving target that had the ability to move even faster.
So rather than fix the hitbox issue they just completely shitted on the weapon?
I mean, I hate scouts but you might as well nerf rocket jumping/trimping because you move WAAAAAY faster that way
The whole point of this video is to point out how there actually isnt a hitbox issue
The hitboxes are still broken, the bfbf is just worse now
how
How can you think you can just comment this on a video showing proof of the hitboxes not being broken? You are literally watching proof that that's not the case, but still insist it is. Nothing is wrong with Scouts hitbox, something's wrong with your aiming. Get better at aiming and stop trying to make shit up in the comments of a video proving you wrong.
Literally have no eyes and brains
Just remove the double jump penalty from the bfb so it rewards good movement on scout and punished bad movement, juking opponents would be so fun