since i've seen some confusion around, i will clarify: huntsman arrows behave 100% identically between the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the game, there is ZERO difference whatsoever there is NO difference in projectile hit registration, collision box size, or anything at all
... Oh my god, is this why it feels like huntsman is stronger on some sides of a map? Just because being in those parts of the map means that players attacking me will be facing a certain, "bEtTeR" direction?
the way i see this, as someone who learnt about how a map like koth_king is hammergrid-rotated by a certain amount of degrees bc of using the huntsman, is that this means you could spend tons of hours doing research in figuring out what maps/points players are rotated commonly in what ways and then 'abuse' the fact that maps can be asymetrical, but that sounds like more work than i would bother also it means that the 'lucksman' nickname is far more accurate than anyone ever knew since the way someone is facing might dictate a headshot or not, which is a basically random factor in a game like tf2 where maps are never made by the same people, made with different alignments on the grid and of totally different coordinates and shapes (not to mention chaotic nature of tf2 where even on a 'linear' push you might be checking all sorts of directions
the funny thing is basically that point-symmetrical maps are actually biased towards one team because landing headshots is easier from one side than on the other
Imagine if the Huntsman arrow simply drew a line between the arrowhead and the end and it could only interact with head hitboxes and limbs, not bounding boxes.
Thing is, it being able to interact with bounding boxes is kind of important so the weapon feels good to use. The issue is just that most classes dont really fill the areas of the bounding box that matter the most, on top of the box not rotating and being... Well a box. For most other projectiles this doesnt matter since they dont have any mechanics regarding precision, but for the huntsman it makes both hitting your target and getting hit super inconsistent depending on the angle. I feel like a good chunk of huntsman jank wouldnt even really be a thing if player collision hulls would use something more akin to a capsule and if limb and head boxes would rotate properly. Though for the former I wouldnt be surprised if changing the bounding box to a capsule or cylinder wouldnt result in other major issues, Id actually be kinda curious how that would pan out.
It needs to use bounding boxes. That's the only way projectiles work in TF2. The snapping only happens when there's no hitbox in the flight path of the arrow, too. I do think the logic for the snapping is kind of messy, but i feel like no snapping whatsoever might have been a problem, and maybe caused even worse interactions with the arrow.
I've always hated the huntsman because it felt like I would always die from a random headshot from around the corner. Now I see why it's always felt so cheap for so many years. This needs to be patched.
Hahah, reminds me of Mercy's pistol on Tracer or any other hero. It will try to match the closest hitbox possible just because(key point) the projectile's hitbox is big. l notice the Heavy was somewhat to hit and you have to aim higher so you can avoid his upperarm.
@@wgetJane that would imply that valve didn't test that feature, or that maybe, some update broke it, i wonder if you could check the tf2 source code leak for developer comments on this
I figured this was some extreme optimisation by the developers which improves network latency & reduces client/server bandwidth usage (less variables to communicate through), it makes sense since TF2 doesn't have as significant of a pro scene (if at all) as the other games.
There's not really something you can do about this besides learning maps and their general sense of direction according to the game's telling of which and what way these boxes face. There's not realistically much you can do with this information besides have some sort of argument to complain when dying to a Huntsman by saying "its not fair because your map is sided to make the huntsman easier to headshot with" which is some silly stuff like people arguing about the whole old Iron Bomber projectile size difference that got fixed. It's a way the huntsman was made to feel better when shooting it, and probably never came into question or play until now when people have had the time/interest to delve into this stuff. Jane is also just swag and delves into the most interesting stuff anyways.
since i've seen some confusion around, i will clarify:
huntsman arrows behave 100% identically between the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the game, there is ZERO difference whatsoever
there is NO difference in projectile hit registration, collision box size, or anything at all
Oh ok it’s MUCH worse than I thought.
... Oh my god, is this why it feels like huntsman is stronger on some sides of a map? Just because being in those parts of the map means that players attacking me will be facing a certain, "bEtTeR" direction?
yeah
the way i see this, as someone who learnt about how a map like koth_king is hammergrid-rotated by a certain amount of degrees bc of using the huntsman, is that this means you could spend tons of hours doing research in figuring out what maps/points players are rotated commonly in what ways and then 'abuse' the fact that maps can be asymetrical, but that sounds like more work than i would bother
also it means that the 'lucksman' nickname is far more accurate than anyone ever knew since the way someone is facing might dictate a headshot or not, which is a basically random factor in a game like tf2 where maps are never made by the same people, made with different alignments on the grid and of totally different coordinates and shapes (not to mention chaotic nature of tf2 where even on a 'linear' push you might be checking all sorts of directions
the funny thing is basically that point-symmetrical maps are actually biased towards one team because landing headshots is easier from one side than on the other
Wait, koth_king is rotated to nerf the huntsman?
@@chexo3 it's a little more nuanced than that
Huh, this finally explains those clips where a heavy gets an arrow to the face but was actually a bodyshot
can't wait for someone to call a one-loc mistake combined with questionable intentional design "source spaghetti"
comment prompted by the idea of sharing this funny bug somewhere as if folk wouldn't use it as ammunition
@@april-alecsa im hoping it does get fixed immediately since tf2 issues have been getting some attention on the source 1 issue tracker
i also want it to be fixed immediately because im biased for the huntsman and the fix will generally make it easier to land more headshots 🚎
tysm for posting these, we definitely could have gone a few more years without anyone knowing this
I am speechless. That is truly horrendous. Thank you for sharing this with such clear visuals.
This could be a next level tech
"Oh shit, Hunstman" *rotates 90 degrees in relation to map*
this thing is so fucked lmfao
Imagine if the Huntsman arrow simply drew a line between the arrowhead and the end and it could only interact with head hitboxes and limbs, not bounding boxes.
Thing is, it being able to interact with bounding boxes is kind of important so the weapon feels good to use. The issue is just that most classes dont really fill the areas of the bounding box that matter the most, on top of the box not rotating and being... Well a box.
For most other projectiles this doesnt matter since they dont have any mechanics regarding precision, but for the huntsman it makes both hitting your target and getting hit super inconsistent depending on the angle.
I feel like a good chunk of huntsman jank wouldnt even really be a thing if player collision hulls would use something more akin to a capsule and if limb and head boxes would rotate properly.
Though for the former I wouldnt be surprised if changing the bounding box to a capsule or cylinder wouldnt result in other major issues, Id actually be kinda curious how that would pan out.
hello nettalie from blue larry found footage
@@wgetJane Greetings
hope you're having a good day
@@wgetJane true!
It needs to use bounding boxes. That's the only way projectiles work in TF2. The snapping only happens when there's no hitbox in the flight path of the arrow, too. I do think the logic for the snapping is kind of messy, but i feel like no snapping whatsoever might have been a problem, and maybe caused even worse interactions with the arrow.
Pyro fuel tank is so frustrating
What a mess of a weapon.
so every hitbox problem in tf2 comes to just valve being lazy and making everything into non rotating squares?
What the hell is that Pyro hitbox lmao
I've always hated the huntsman because it felt like I would always die from a random headshot from around the corner. Now I see why it's always felt so cheap for so many years. This needs to be patched.
You do realize this is showcasing a bug that favours the PERSON BEING HIT, right?
@@wisbilt1650 or doesn't. Depends where (where as in world coordinate space) the person being hit is being hit from
Hahah, reminds me of Mercy's pistol on Tracer or any other hero. It will try to match the closest hitbox possible just because(key point) the projectile's hitbox is big. l notice the Heavy was somewhat to hit and you have to aim higher so you can avoid his upperarm.
Ah yes, the dynamic hitbox
They are spinning.
why didn't they fix the hitboxes not rotating for this thing
i guess because it was just discovered yesterday
@@wgetJane that would imply that valve didn't test that feature, or that maybe, some update broke it, i wonder if you could check the tf2 source code leak for developer comments on this
thanks, mae borowski
Is this how the Crossbow works in HL2 too?
no
spaghetti is being too generous
I figured this was some extreme optimisation by the developers which improves network latency & reduces client/server bandwidth usage (less variables to communicate through), it makes sense since TF2 doesn't have as significant of a pro scene (if at all) as the other games.
lmao that is NOT the reason
Holy shit
I wonder how this affects degroot gameplay
I knew it
enough spaghetti to feed me for months
Btw "Huntsman players are skilled"
Yeah that's rich. Tired of hearing some lazy n00b babbling how he/she is leading the score (and not helping the rest of the team) while using huntsman
If only it just used regular hitboxes for hit registration, unfortunate
That would make it unusable
but jane, this is more skillful than the sniper rifle, reddit said so
please tell me you just didn't wanna do the math for the bones
amazing...
I guess it's a 50-50 fixed? It's broken for other angles and for the different angle is 👌
it's broken for ALL angles, the hitboxes are not rotated at all, notice how the arm & leg hitboxes are just completely horizontal
oh look it's wget, the command i use to download my por-
What the fuck?
So, in short, if you aim at the top and in the middle of a player's model, you'll hit them in the head?
Got it.
oooooooooooh fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckhhhhhjj
So, your telling me in some cases its better to shoot farther away from the enemies head? 😵💫🤮
no, it's complicated
There's not really something you can do about this besides learning maps and their general sense of direction according to the game's telling of which and what way these boxes face. There's not realistically much you can do with this information besides have some sort of argument to complain when dying to a Huntsman by saying "its not fair because your map is sided to make the huntsman easier to headshot with" which is some silly stuff like people arguing about the whole old Iron Bomber projectile size difference that got fixed. It's a way the huntsman was made to feel better when shooting it, and probably never came into question or play until now when people have had the time/interest to delve into this stuff. Jane is also just swag and delves into the most interesting stuff anyways.
everyclasses is same hulls,25%bigger than hl2,stupidhull setting