Reminds me of what Totalbiscuit said during the Cata beta. "I don't want the game to lower to my level, I want to raise myself to the level of the game"
Aka spend your life on it just so you can get the best items in the game. Not caring about balance is so goofy. Why? Instead of the game being balanced already you have to spend a lot of time to get the best items just to balance it out.
covenants are going to be forgettable too... i'm so sick and tired of expansion features becoming the new player power only to go away at next expansion pre patches.
Yeah but can you imagine building an alt if you needed to do every xpacs progression system just to do current raids? Like needing to get a mop cape, do wods story for the passives and getting the ring, then power up an artifact, then azurite neck, then covenant and runecarving. On EVERY alt, potentially multiple times if you use different specs. And that's just the systems I know about because I started in Mists of Pandaria
On Part 4, The Loot - This was THE nail in the coffin for me. I loved the old tier sets where you had to really think things out in order to get BiS, and the moment you think you know a thing or two, the meta shifts because some asstwerp figured out if you use these particular pair of green level 12 gloves with a certain hawk feather, you get a machine gun... or some shit. Now, it is just pick the one with the bigger numbers... yay.
This. I was replaying classic last year, and one of the best feelings for me was getting a level 23 blue chestplate which gave like +10 strength over a more balanced defensive spread with stamina as the focus. It was a specific drop, not just the next upgrade but a specific item from one dungeon which gave really nice stats for a DPS playstyle. It dropped, I won the need roll against the rat hunter needing it to sell, and walked away with a nice upgrade and a sense I found an item which was really good and wore it for like the next 10 levels. Now in most MMO's, even ones I like and still play such as FFXIV, I rarely even look at the gears stats or even what items drop from where. Just if the game says 'this is better' I equip it until I get to end game, and even then usually endgame gear is all copy pasted stat swaps and you are just looking for the highest mainstat/secondary stat combo
loot was interesting in classic-wrath because you were trying to balance that "checklist" (hit, expertise, etc...) with maximizing your primary stats, trade off tier bonuses, and having to re- gem or re-enchant, it made your character really feel like you m made them instead of just oh new gear with higher iLvL blindly right click and keep facerolling.
that fact that the 4 strength 4 stam leather belt meme shows how meaningful the loot was compared to when you didn't get corrupted gear in retail when you get and up grade in classic you feel it its meaningful
on the pvp section, looking back i really think the best time was with PVP resilience pieces that you could buy. Ppl who had solid pve gear, could go in and be successful in many ways, but those who spent more time in pvp would still be rewarded for their time spent doing PVP with their increased survivability and they had choice of gear they wanted to spend their earned currency on. Not only that, but every class is not able to be built (well...meaningfully) to be able to take on all classes solo without a substantial amount of expertise. Gear can help tip the balance, but so can teammates....which is why PVP is often not a solo adventure. As much as we might want it to be. Turn warmode on and have fun i guess?
Me too. I had the best PvP experience in BC and I think resilience gear was a fantastic idea. Time and progress was rewarded with gear that excels at the content you did. Gear mattered, skill mattered and item progression made sense. I think the worst thing developers do is to listen to complaints and making the game more forgiving for inexperienced players
@@Thelaretus the point of MMOs is to have the ability to stand out and be unique. That's why there are classes. If everyone had the same abilities in WoW nobody would play it.
It's quite ironic. Blizzard makes sure all classes can do everything, because they're afraid to bring the "bring the class, not the player" mentality back, yet they incentivize making alts and other multiple characters (and even go as far as to sell level ups) to do other kinds of content? Come on. Blizzard needs to scrap this "jack of all trades, master of none" bullshit and make classes more unique again. It's not like it used to be where it took forever to level your character anyway..
Gotta keep in mind that they did that for a reason. People don't like to be outright gimped for certain content for the classes they play. The RP factor in RPGs means players develop a connection with their characters and if they like playing resto druid they wouldn't want to have to be turned down because their class is dogshit at tank healing, for example.
Luis Urdiales well make them kind of viable if u play good and make content easyer its stupid that theres mythic which idk 80% of people never see until the next expansion comes out
Cataclysm Patch 4.0.1 (2010-10-12): Spell power has been removed from all armor (except [Feathermoon Headdress]). Wrath of the Lich King Patch 3.0.2 (2008-10-14): All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spell Power. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant "increased spell damage and healing" such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
Well if the endgame of WoW is based on groups, then they would have to balance the game around groups, meaning multiple classes are present. It seems like people are mad that the game isn't balanced at an individual level, when in fact that's not the point at all?
i always remember the moment i got Shadowmourne on my warrior in wotlk first thing i did was entering in a BG and hitting 10k+ mortal strikes on low geared people was the best feeling ever
Taeschalach was the last weapon I got that I remember being excited about and that was for lore and aesthetic reasons; not stats or being useful...especially because I didn’t get it to drop until several months into BfA.
"How is loot nor boring in classic wow" Bro if you play the game 24/7 for months and don't even touch suboptimal pieces because everything has been prepicked months before release EVERYTHING is boring. For the time when it was made the loot in vanilla was great. Even in classic during the levelling the loot was very interesting and if you didn't play by guide 100% it was fun in endgame too. Even playing with a guide you still had interesting descisions during the gearing process. LOOT IS ALWAYS BORING ONCE YOU HAVE THE BEST LOOT.
@@greekgodx6560 The game's design was made at that time. We are supoosed to have learned a lot since then, so we should have different standards. Also i am pretty sure i mentioned that it is still good today. It's just that the game has been out for so long and everyone knew how to powerlevel, skipping most itemisation descisions during leveling and then knew the BIS in endgame, skipping most itemisation in endgame. Even given ALL THAT i still feel like overall i had more fun with the items in classic than i had when i played during legion and bfa.
@@greekgodx6560 In order for it to be a fair comparison, you have to look at classic in its historical context from when it was new content when comparing it to contemporary content.
I also agree the core idea behind Corruptions is actually very good and interesting. However, the way you get corruptions is extremely bad. At first it was pure RNG or buying a 2 million gold boe. Now it's an absolutely insane grind and then you can't even get it because you have to wait for the rotation. Blizzard just loves ruining good ideas.
Classic Druid is my favorite class ever made in an mmo. Remained that way for long time. Why? Because it was exactly what I pictured a Druid being in that world, that fantasy. A shapeshifter. Capable of damage, defense, and healing & buffing. The Swiss Army knife of classes. Once they gutted the shapeshifting aspect of the class it was completely ruined imo. If you knew how to play the class correctly you could take on anyone 1v1 and have a good chance at survival.
We want balance, water puts out fire, fire burns grass, water makes grass grow. Blizzard heard balance and thought we wanted water to be the same as fire...
It's cool that you can find uses for bad items in classic like the corn staff from bwl with 40 int is super good for aoe farming mages. Also the overall feeling of getting lets say onslaught belt is way better than getting a generic mythic belt from the current raid tier in retail which is kinda weird because it's not like onslaught belt has anything that's that exciting.
Fun note he mentions demon hunter tanks don't have a "thing" but I would argue they are self sustain tanks. I am often the designated off tank of raids, and my self heal can allow the healers to not focus me long enough to stop a raid wipe
17:00 Which is exactly why Final Fantasy 14 is not alt friendly. The grind is 1:1 for all characters. That was months is still months. Gotta do the whole story, the whole grind, ALL OF IT again. 1 character can do literally everything. There are absolutely zero systems for alts. You can't even send mail to yourself! You gotta use the market board and buy your own stuff to transfer stuff and funds between characters. And remember, blizz wants to be more like FF14.
@@kubi0461 Some people would like to play with buddies across data centers or simply to play as something other than whatever their first character is. Like what if you wanna play a midlander girl and a hrothgar? These grinds are made as if the very notion of having multiple characters doesn't exist. Even the moggle shop to a very large extent does this. 3 or 7 dollars for an emote PER CHARACTER among other things. Systems that WoW has been trying to imitate since Legion. The most abhorrent thing about this is that WoW is still on top. They have no reason to be more like FF14. Anyone who knows WoW knows the players won't like it.
Other topics may be more complex but loot is simple, when you make it all about just plain number increase (aka offstats) people will just check if the number is bigger or if the addon says +x% increase and equip it. Whenever you had gear sets or random effects, either you run full simulations (which 90% playerbase won't do) or have a tiered list of gear (which won't matter to most casual/average players) or you just have to make a choice to use it or not (which makes the item meaningful). That's what makes the game interesting imo.
One of my most memorable days in gaming was back in vanilla when I had the blue warrior pvp set with lion heart, MC girdle etc and I got the zin rohk destroyer of worlds, server first. I went to ironforge, respeced to sword spec in arms, queued arathi basin and deleted people for hours. The weight of items in vanilla made the game fun and memorable. I miss those days.
I only REALLY played warlock, but even then I could feel when they made big balance changes as this class, even when my class was hardly touched. When I started playing in early BC I quickly grew to love destruction spec, and mained it for a majority of my time with WoW. Back in BC I was topping most damage meters in most expansions I played (skipped some expansions, and don't play anymore). Took a break when MoP came along, and rejoined with WoD... WoD KILLED my love for the game. I may have been a tad rusty when I returned, but proper spell rotation is like riding a bike, you don't forget it! I would squeezing in every drop of damage I could between queuing up spells between global cooldowns, and getting best in slot versions of gear. Even then I was regularly being out damaged by classes that previously struggled to keep up with me, and they beat my damage in their sleep.
24:32 THIS is why i loved the weapons that dropped in cata, they were cool, they looked cool, they had awesome effects. We need more weapons like this, all the time, cool shit that actually is good. Weapons should always be epic like that. It's a god damn joke
I think you loved it better put remember loving them so much because the graphics upgrade from wotlk to cats type weps was immense. Now the weps are even better, but it all can look cool and it's all the same and we have 10000 of em so meh
Reminds me of one raid event where after demon hunters was unlocked. The raid was flooded with demon hunters. Was an interesting time playing as a guardian tank during those fights.
Same... I played BFA a lot but somehow I never really reached endgame content. I have so many characters with fragments of the mainstory done but non with all. I have like one character that did the essence quests & story so that one has more than just the very first essence. And all characters are geared with the same world quest shit. One character did the visions pre quest but had so bad gear that the visions were just no fun and I never farmed stuff to enter again... I really only do alt stuff this expansion. Feels so weird. Like I played a lot during BFA but never really BFA content D:
@@TrippinAlpaca i get what you mean,the classes are so boring for the first many levels and ofc its a problem but the game starts becoming way way better at higher lvls
@@alexvoyd1132 yeah, I hear that from friends a lot, but games like WoW and OSRS suck you in quick with immersion and stories. That has a lot to do with themes of the games themselves though. I dont have any interest in the final fantasy series, so the art style and world dont really do it for me. I enjoy taverns and ale as a place to live out another "life" so to speak. But I may give it another try after I'm done with valheim
@@TrippinAlpaca it surely is a flaw of the game. You can't ask from the player to play 30h before the game starts being good!! Other games have less gametime than that. But it surely becomes better later so its up to anyone's patience
But how is that a bad thing? just let players do like a 1h grind of some sort to change cov, with no timegate on it. That way you can change your class depending on what you want to do. Nobody is unique anymore because of the classes, why keep that mentality?
Balance does not exist. It is ephemeral phantom, its very existence based on subjectiveness. True "balance" exist in constant, cruel changes + lack of player's ability to try everything in a game without any difficulties. Talent changes should not exist. Leveling should be hard, long lasting. Fraction should be 1 server only, there should be no opportunity to change it for money. Etc, etc, etc. And the more popular game becomes, the more people are experienced in it; ballance will require more sacrifices for its existence. Because ballance exist in either infinite possibilities or in New environment.
You don't understand. Retail = bad, everything else = good. You can say "Unbalanced = good" because it makes you unique and groups can compensate each others' weaknesses, but only if you say "Retail = bad, not unique, too balanced". If Retail becomes unbalanced, you can't say that anymore because Retail must always = bad. People have been pointing out these logical fallacies for a long time, but the majority still screech when they hear Retail and always spam Pog when they show any other (literal trash) MMO.
I miss the time in 2005 when your friend killed you 10 times in a duel because he pulled some new moves and you got raving mad at him then later you meet up at the skate park, smoke weed and everything was good.
I'd choose making things viable as opposed to balanced. Nothing will be perfectly balanced, but when I enter a group I'd rather people say "Oh a shaman." as opposed to "Oh, a shaman.".
Perfect balance is not boring, it's the dream of every videogame. Every time a game is perfectly balanced it is a great game. Look at rock/paper/scissor or chess or some other balanced game. They are pretty simple compared to our games now days, but the balance makes them awesome and fun. If you wanna argue with me about that i'm open too. The perfect balance is the way to success.
items in classic are so much better. he forgot that you have an defensive bonus aswell to base stats like agility(dodge) and str(block). so for pvp you pick agy and str ( raw stats) over attack power or crit. just a little example.
Blizzard can't seem to force the player to adapt to the game any longer. Covenants are a good example of this, they wanted you to chose one and not change things. Players scream and they take it back a step so you have the option to change but if you want to join the original one again it takes time. Players don't care about uniqueness they just want the option to choose what is the best for every single situation with no weakness. The same happens with people talking about their class, they point out all of their weaknesses and ignore or downplay their strengths. They want everything to be the same and homogenized. You can't just blame Blizzard here but the player base itself.
There is no reason why Resilience, Hit, Spellhit, Resistance, and Penetration shouldn't be in the game. While Asmon wasn't entirely wrong about them being just a benchmark you felt like you needed to hit, but that was part of what made it interesting. You had many gearing paths to reach those benchmarks based on how lucky you were, how committed you were, what class you picked, and what reputations you chose to grind. If you prioritized Hit above all else, like in the cases of Rogues and Priests in PvP for example, where a Kidney failing, a Fear failing, multiple offensive Dispels failing, could really toss a wrench into your strategy; then you had to figure out a different combination of gear, sockets, and in some cases invest talent points to reach that benchmark in order to play optimally. And when you finally got the missing piece of gear you wanted, you could then swap out the sub-optimal makeshift pieces of gear you had in place simply to meet the soft-cap you wanted for ones with other stats that bring you closer to completion. Meta-gems for example, what happened to those? I found that they were really interesting, and could potentially be more interesting with the newer expansions. It wasn't uncommon to swap out gems on your whole gear every single time you got an item upgrade, and that just funneled straight into the economy. You'd often have to lose on socket-bonuses simply to get a meta to function. The same goes for enchants, be they through enchanters, leatherworkers, or just tiresome reputation grinds. That's why I have such a great fondness for TBC, as slow-paced as it was, it really taught players the value of +10 hit whenever we'd swap out entire pieces of gear, gems, and enchants simply to meet a stat benchmark or to not overcap on it. Not to mention the progression raiding system that meant certain items, particularly trinkets, were always sought after no matter how outdated the content was; think Quagmirran's Eye from heroic UB being a make-shift Skull of Gul'dan until you were lucky enough to get it. That also ties into personalized loot and how being showered with gear and rewards just makes upgrades so much less rewarding and memorable. Older expansions just did a much better job of providing a fun and engaging MMO experience that was propelled by player-agency.
"Shamans are OP" the classic andys shout in Arathi Basin while their plate wearing healer pops his third invuln spell and continues healing through the teamfight with 5 people comboing on him mid-cast.
I haven't played WoW much (never paid for it), but have played quite a lot of rpg's. Balancing isn't always boring. With imbalance you'll end up with some classes/ races barely being played because they are weak. It depends on how you balance things. You can give everyone the same kit, but that would be boring indeed. DPS classes can have the same max output, but the way you get to that damage could be way different. Same ofcourse for other type of classes. Itemsets can be good. I think that the best in slot equipment should not be part of a set. This way a lower tier equipment with a set bonus can be viable to some point, but should still be worse than best in slot equipment set without set bonus. This way the player has to think about when it's worth to equip the better in slot items. Also each individual item of the best in slot gear is more noticeable than if it were in a set with a bonus.
Im so sad that Reforging didnt come back in shadowlands.. you can still get "better" items with totally wrong stats, so you will loose dps from equiping them
I remember really good when rogues and warriors start healing passiv like warlocks in cata... game was done for me at that point it's so muc hbetter if not everyone has everything...
@@tegridyfarmer2581 soo? They all work differently and franky are easily counterable by specs that dont even have one like arms warriors whhich had one in TBC btw and was OP af. in TBC healers gained 30% of spell power coming from ehaling power, the obvious answer was giving away self heals to other dps by the same reason healers gained damage lol.
15:06 This is the reason why I quit the first time after logging everyday for the last 12 years. I put months into my character to get the BiS item for PvP in every slot, each with sockets and corruption, all the rank 3 essences that I need. And I didn't feel any stronger than other players in PvP. Still losing 1v1 against some undergeared classes. I'm not saying I'm very good in PvP. But back in WotlK, I remember dominating bg's and winning 1v3, just because I had full s6/7. And that took me about 2 weeks to get. At that time I was still a little noob kid that had no clue about the game and was clicking most of the buttons. Your time and effort you put into the game/your character are so devalued nowadays.
This is exactly why pvp needs the gear flattening/templating. If you're the worse player in pvp you should lose. If you want to win, get better. Gear should be the reward for being good, not the requirement to even compete.
oh, i feel that, i played from tbc on free server, mainly pvp, it was so great to one shot people, or as i was healer, be unkillable by non geared pvp players
@@ArborusVitae Why should pvp needd gear flattening/templating if the timesink required to be competitive isnt even that big? At least before it you could actually see yourself become both, better and stronger at the same time. I myself really enjoy basic character progression even in endgame. Why wouldnt you want the same flattening and templating for pve then.. the better the player the easier the raid.. why overcome a raid solely because the entire raidgroup is completly overgeared? I experienced it first hand during legion. My guild was filled with clueless people who didnt even know how to properly gear their characters, didnt know how to play their characters, were too lazy to really focus on how mechanics work etc.. when we finally beat en on hc, basically everybody had so good gear that only titanforged/warforged gear couldve been upgrades for them.
@@ArborusVitae no, it's an MMORPG. The time and effort you put into your character and it's progression should matter. If you want skill to be the only thing that matters, you should play something like cs:go or league.
@@kuhnandreas5694 It does matter. The more time you've put in, the better you'll get as you master your character. You also get rewarded for that skill progression with gear progression. It's just that the gear shouldn't matter in ranked formats (arena, RBGs) to ensure good competition. If I'm playing PvP I want good matches. Stomping or being stomped are both boring.
@@brianviktor8212 what are you smoking, its verbetim what asmongold said. He cant make up his mind, and he cant follow through. Whatever is popular in chat is his current opinion and åpoint of view
@@vikingjack9994 I disagree given he can't even really see what chats saying due to the delay on streams, that, and he often has different reactions to things that chat goes on about, its actually the other way around- whatever he thinks is funny the chat thinks is funny, etc. He's also balding so he probly forgets his opinions every now and then.
You know, the loot in current comes off far worse when you consider that the colours of the items are referred to as rarity is most games. Grey = junk, White = Common, Green = Uncommon, Blue = Rare, etc etc. When you apply that to current wow you come to the realisation that the colours are basically meaningless now. Rather than having shitloads of greens that are a dime a dozen, a large collection of blues that are more powerful but still fairly quantiful, and then the purples which are WAY more significant but in tiny amounts by comparison (and of course the legendaries that are literally legendary in the sense that you'd see so few of them,) in current you have just a bunch of items of damn near equal quantity where the colour is only relevant to the Ilevel, not the actual significance of the item. Sure there are some more interesting items out there, but those are far and few between and not really of any remark by comparison.
1 thing is for sure, classic is more about consumeables and enginerring more than class balance (in pvp) Meaning those factors can outscale imbalance more than class variety
My favorite weapon in classic? The Nightblade. Level 39 Epic 2H Sword. Enchanted with Crusader. I will never forget twinking level 39 BG's on my Arms warrior.
frost mage has a legendary in shadowlands that makes frost nova not break from your dmg, and they are frozen, so every ice lance crits for 5k.. and u can spam it. and u can have 2 charges of frost nova. so 16 seconds of critting instant casts
I will never forget Robes of Insight dropping for me. I was playing Vanilla, trying all the classes trying to decide what I liked to play. While leveling a priest one randomly dropped of trash. I remember almost shitting myself over seeing the purple item text. I mained that priest all the way through cata.
6 months later Paladin explodes people and warriors are a fking 1 shot monster 😂😂😂 my poor hunter kites like that kid being chased by chickens, the diablo inferno meme.
The difference between wow and battlefield balances is that the m4 is the best rifle in real life so the game should reflect that because it tries to be realistic
I feel like Asmons chat literally just reacts the same way he does instead of thinking for themselves. Like, If he found something very funny but made an angry face, his chat would hate it 🙃
@@benrakow3396 Well, that is group thinking humans. It is the same thing for politicians, parties, movements, actors, community leaders. If you identify with a group, then you are more likely to just go with their narrative.
I think this just a case of people saying if they agree rather then them all agreeing. Openly disagreeing about anything in a friendly place is kinda a dick move unless its something serious. Just another effect of the lovely twitch parasocial relationships lol.
I would have to agree with you. I don't play WoW and in the Caterpillar video he said that most of his fan base doesn't play wow. Put simply, I just agree with Asmon because I have no base in WoW to judge it off of nor do I have time to build one.
In classic fire spec is much preferable in phase 5 (AQ) 6 (Naxx). Fire mages won't deal as much dmg as arcane mages casting frostbolt (if they have similar spell power) but its preferable not spending 100g for respec just to do a BWL every week when you do AQ, Naxx raids which requires fire
If every class is unique and not specs having defensives and be able perform any task needed, people will class stack and be like wow classic with all warriors
kinda disagree with the whole "balance is boring" thing but i see why you said that, in my mind balance isn't boring if not matter which class you pick you have the tools to beat any class in the game and it all comes down to how you use them. It truly rewards skill and game mechanics understanding. But the thing is we are talking about perfection right here, and this is really unlikely that any game will be THAT balanced. So yeah i feel like the closest thing we can call a "balanced" game is basically a game where some classes can never defeat some classes but can never loose to other ones / some classes will just go in an endless and pointless fight because nobody has the tools to kill the other one. And in that case yeah it is boring and i agree with you, so yeah the whole "let each class shine" does make sense. But i feel like balance is still something to go for in games because i know no better feeling than a hard won battle where you know skill is what made the difference between victory and certain death. There is other way to make a game balanced that are still to be explored or discovered that can give that feeling of "always" having a chance and still be entertaining.
I really don't feel a lot of need to do most daily and weekly chores, but I really like Island Expeditions and knock those out every week on 6 characters. But I also want to push my Heart of Azeroths as high as I can to put off replacing it in Shadowlands.
16:43 That's probably why they don't let you swap alts easier. Since you'd play the class that's stronger a lot more usually, and balance issues would become significantly more blatant.
I find that I watch more Asmongold then I do anything else here on RUclips. His content and chat sperg are super entertaining to watch and I also enjoy bigtime when McCool joins in. These videos are on a triple A level of entertainment in my opinion :)
Rock, paper and scissors is best way to balance RPG's i think. So u can have your fun facerolling some classes, while u wont ragequit being facerolled by other. WHILE u can beat them if u have massive skill or gear.
The scaling exists because a newly dinged level 120 has about 1/4th-1/6th the amount of HP of a fully geared one. If it was no scaling, a 120 with gear would kill a 120 without gear about as easy as a level 60 kills a level 20 in classic.
At least Classic nerfs class stacking with its loot system. Half the raid being warrs isn't so great a comp when most of them are still wearing dungeon blues, so you'd have to be specifically aiming for a record clear by using multiple groups to gear the warrs for it to work.
Most memorable mmorpg weapon that I ever had was in Asheron's call I built the top tier Siliphi of Crimson Stars. Took forever to farm out top mats. Had the top tier rubies in every slot. Had the top tier armordillo spine. It was fun. I loved my S.R.A.
Diverse Loot in classic... Faster Running Boots, Staff who lets you breath underwater, Staff which conjures foot, Furbolg Transformation, Stun Procs, Whirlwind Proc, Summon Tentacle or Dragon Proc, Breath of Fire Trinket, Lightling throwing Hemet, Double Attack speed Proc, Transform into Fish, Sword which lets you hear voices, Fairyfire casting Blade... Sereously, how can you say its not more diverse?
i got a good laugh from the " i wish these things were account wide so all of my characters could use them" and watching the "so play ffxiv" in chat, so true. this is exactly FFXIV, granted its the same toon but overall if you earn sometyhing on your alt 99% of the time you can use it on your main or vice versa. I really hope the asmongold community doesnt scare him off :/
the problem around 24:00 is not that big of a deal tho... 3 years from now people will still remember a trinket called drestgath lol. Like most of us still remember diamond prism right
Everything in that video is pretty much right except the loot section, there is plenty of gear I can specifically remember in bfa that had extra effects that even had weird stats on it from the raids, its just not as common anymore.
I like that they make you choose between alts and having stuff like corruptions. Makes it more time consuming for people to reroll the meta every patch
Well I for one think the balance WAS "perfect" in vanilla or so good that people complaining about it are just unaware of the main truth: Not every class _requires_ the same cost in time/gold/consumables/repairs/equipment/role. A warlock in p1 does the same as a warlock in p6, show up cast shadow bolt and get loot. The commitment your main tank needs making Thunderfury in phase 1 is more than is required over the entirety of classic wow for just about every other class, and it is compounded by FR gear, NR gear, tank/dps gear, the list goes on. The balance is created where people that can and do play exponentially more than another is better served playing a class that requires and it turn rewards it.
I started late into 8.3. . Like July or something. And looking back in time I do wish it was the way it was in wotlk whereby my starting late was cause for me to experience everything from nax,ulduar, toc and the frozen thrine!
The whole loot situation regarding classic is probably because it's all over the place most of the time. You can get really good gear for certain slots from different places, be it BRD, crafting, zul, MC or DM. Not necessarily BiS equipment, but just good stuff from different places. Also a lot of janky items with weird procs or use effects. You could and can still map out your character, check all the places you want to go to get decent gear to get into raiding and so on. I gotta go here, farm HoJ, gotta get gladiator chain and a lions helmet yada yada. In retail it's more like, I gotta cap X different caps, pray to RNG gods that the right secondaries are on the gear and usally equip the highest iLvL possible (unless corruption). Not to mention a lot of janky meme builds possible for the hybrid classes, with fringe gear that gets interesting IMO. Is it inherently good, no. Do I think it's better than retail ? Probably. I miss caring about loot as well, the sheer quantity one get's drowned by in terms of items is staggering. But it's rough with LFR, farmable M+, Arenas and BGs as well as regular raids to not be knee-deep in loot. I think we need more diverse loot, more stats, more different distribution, more janky trinkets, less epics, maybe reforging, old gems and such back. But that's just on the loot front, WoW has many more problems IMO, that need some attention. They made it so easy to play the game solo. So hard to connect to people. They kinda cut away the RPGey nature of the game more and more in the pursuit of balance. On the PvP issues. Just give PvP gear PvP stats, give everyone a base set, or a craftable set that is better than lets say normal / heroic gear, because it gets 30iLvL boost (blues). Don't escelate gladiator gear / high rating stuff into oblivion and widen the gap unnecessarily. Now you have noobs who can jump into pvp and not get immediatly dumpstered yet are at an disadvantage against seasoned pvp players and you can get rid off the weird scaling stuff. PvP players get their gear via PvP. PvE players don't need to play PvP because the iLvL boost only works in PvP. Done.
I wouldn't really say it's easy to play the game solo, unless you consider doing LFR and LFD to be "playing the game". You obviously can pug m+ and raids, but you could pug raids and dungeons in vanilla just as well as now. And let's be honest, you are not really gonna push keys or progress mythic by puging, which is the actual pve endgame. You still need friends and/or a guild for that.
@@MrFuckingKololo What I meant was, that I don't have to communicate for most content at all. you can pug keys up to +15 and do heroic clears without ever writing with someone. It doesn't really matter what endgame is, when only a fraction of players actually do that content. It's about the majority. And blizzard implemented a ton of systems that let's you skip most social aspects of the game. Dungeon finder, LFR, the LFG tool in general. People pop into and out of groups instantly, no one actually talks anymore, that was different for me in classic, where I frequently quested with strangers, helped them or got help myself, finding groups for dungeons, or chatting along during downtime, when some needed to fly to the instance and so on. They made it really convenient to play by yourself, not necessarily solo though, maybe that fits better.
Nobody wants to play a BG at lvl 51 fighting lvl 59 players that also outgear you and you have no chance to win. The same thing was when people made twinks in classic to never lose to anyone except for a twink if the classes had a chance against eachother. One shot new players on trial accounts who probably thought they were cheating and then quit the game. In World pvp however / Duels i do like these things and ofc in PvE this should allways be a thing. I do like the old loot where there were more unique items when it came to stats and looks. Or a chance to win that legendary item of Scarlet that is what motivated you to do the same dungeon a lot. It is also a shame that every season some clases were very bad and some very good, if that happened to be your main that was bad and you didnt have a lot of time, you might as well quit or level a new character while leaving your favourite behind. By the time you were max you were so far behind you didnt have a achievement to participate in raids. they should have given every class a group buff and a nice role / combo in PvP so every class allways had a need to be in every Meta.
in wrath is when the homogenization started. Wotlk was the first expac when multiple classes had the same buff. Examples of this are Horn of winter / Strength of earth (Agil Str), Blessing of might / Battleshout, Icy talons / windfury totem.
Ive been complaining for years saying that the only differences between the classes now are the particle colors rendered during the cast of a spell. Priest is like warrior, except for the fact that priests spell causes white particles and Warriors ability produces red particles. The end of MoP was tolerable but not optimal. After MoP it all just went to shit and kept falling off at a rapid rate. There were some points in the last couple years that the game wasnt garbage, BfA was an improvment, but shadowlands was not. Shadowlands made me grateful for WoD lol.
'bring the player not the class' really fucked up class design in cata. But MoP class design was really fun and then it went downhill again especially legion then bfa to the point where most just arent fun anymore
I just want tiers sets and special effect on weapons. Hit chance and stuff too. I still remember how good it felt to reach the CRAZY hit cap you needed on fury warrior.
Reminds me of what Totalbiscuit said during the Cata beta. "I don't want the game to lower to my level, I want to raise myself to the level of the game"
Dude left at the perfect time to leave.
@@HierophanticRose there was never a perfect time T_T
Yea, I agreed with him. I enjoyed the early Cata dungeons. You had to actually think.
and that was one of the main reasons cata bombed.
Aka spend your life on it just so you can get the best items in the game. Not caring about balance is so goofy. Why? Instead of the game being balanced already you have to spend a lot of time to get the best items just to balance it out.
Anytime asmon talks about wow balance his eyebrows start flying lmao
Its whenever he talks lmao
Legend says of he flaps them enough times they will fly away.
Anytime asmot talks his eyebrows are flying
Pew, pew pew, pew pew pew...
Don't do drugs kids
Imagine Asmongold having a kid with Emilia Clarke, the eyebrows on that kid would have a life of their own.
See? I can do that too
"Everyone has everything"
My broken ass outlaw rogue feels offended at a spiritual level
My retail rogue wants to speak with you good sir
yup all because "every class need range" bring back combat, outlaw is booty cheeks.
@@orionbrown6766 play vanilla or bc
@Valek O'Keefe I play vanilla you dumbshit
@@van.deaux.1694 we’re all dumb shits down here.
It is kind of funny, I haven’t played classic WoW in 15 years and I still know the names of T1, T2 and T3 rogue armor by heart.
The timing on “except warriors” and “except the class I play” was perfect
covenants are going to be forgettable too... i'm so sick and tired of expansion features becoming the new player power only to go away at next expansion pre patches.
Yeah but can you imagine building an alt if you needed to do every xpacs progression system just to do current raids?
Like needing to get a mop cape, do wods story for the passives and getting the ring, then power up an artifact, then azurite neck, then covenant and runecarving.
On EVERY alt, potentially multiple times if you use different specs. And that's just the systems I know about because I started in Mists of Pandaria
On Part 4, The Loot - This was THE nail in the coffin for me. I loved the old tier sets where you had to really think things out in order to get BiS, and the moment you think you know a thing or two, the meta shifts because some asstwerp figured out if you use these particular pair of green level 12 gloves with a certain hawk feather, you get a machine gun... or some shit.
Now, it is just pick the one with the bigger numbers... yay.
This. I was replaying classic last year, and one of the best feelings for me was getting a level 23 blue chestplate which gave like +10 strength over a more balanced defensive spread with stamina as the focus.
It was a specific drop, not just the next upgrade but a specific item from one dungeon which gave really nice stats for a DPS playstyle. It dropped, I won the need roll against the rat hunter needing it to sell, and walked away with a nice upgrade and a sense I found an item which was really good and wore it for like the next 10 levels.
Now in most MMO's, even ones I like and still play such as FFXIV, I rarely even look at the gears stats or even what items drop from where. Just if the game says 'this is better' I equip it until I get to end game, and even then usually endgame gear is all copy pasted stat swaps and you are just looking for the highest mainstat/secondary stat combo
loot was interesting in classic-wrath because you were trying to balance that "checklist" (hit, expertise, etc...) with maximizing your primary stats, trade off tier bonuses, and having to re- gem or re-enchant, it made your character really feel like you m made them instead of just oh new gear with higher iLvL blindly right click and keep facerolling.
that fact that the 4 strength 4 stam leather belt meme shows how meaningful the loot was compared to when you didn't get corrupted gear in retail when you get and up grade in classic you feel it its meaningful
on the pvp section, looking back i really think the best time was with PVP resilience pieces that you could buy. Ppl who had solid pve gear, could go in and be successful in many ways, but those who spent more time in pvp would still be rewarded for their time spent doing PVP with their increased survivability and they had choice of gear they wanted to spend their earned currency on. Not only that, but every class is not able to be built (well...meaningfully) to be able to take on all classes solo without a substantial amount of expertise. Gear can help tip the balance, but so can teammates....which is why PVP is often not a solo adventure. As much as we might want it to be. Turn warmode on and have fun i guess?
Me too. I had the best PvP experience in BC and I think resilience gear was a fantastic idea. Time and progress was rewarded with gear that excels at the content you did. Gear mattered, skill mattered and item progression made sense. I think the worst thing developers do is to listen to complaints and making the game more forgiving for inexperienced players
The goal of any RPG should be to balance imbalanced classes each with their own strenghts
Thats kind of the dota2 situation, everything is broken, so nothing is
@@Thelaretus the point of MMOs is to have the ability to stand out and be unique. That's why there are classes. If everyone had the same abilities in WoW nobody would play it.
How is balancing classes going to improve role playing?
It's quite ironic. Blizzard makes sure all classes can do everything, because they're afraid to bring the "bring the class, not the player" mentality back, yet they incentivize making alts and other multiple characters (and even go as far as to sell level ups) to do other kinds of content? Come on. Blizzard needs to scrap this "jack of all trades, master of none" bullshit and make classes more unique again. It's not like it used to be where it took forever to level your character anyway..
Yeppers.
Gotta keep in mind that they did that for a reason. People don't like to be outright gimped for certain content for the classes they play. The RP factor in RPGs means players develop a connection with their characters and if they like playing resto druid they wouldn't want to have to be turned down because their class is dogshit at tank healing, for example.
Luis Urdiales well make them kind of viable if u play good and make content easyer its stupid that theres mythic which idk 80% of people never see until the next expansion comes out
quite*
@@fameus4423 thanks
Cataclysm Patch 4.0.1 (2010-10-12): Spell power has been removed from all armor (except [Feathermoon Headdress]).
Wrath of the Lich King Patch 3.0.2 (2008-10-14): All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spell Power. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant "increased spell damage and healing" such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
Well if the endgame of WoW is based on groups, then they would have to balance the game around groups, meaning multiple classes are present.
It seems like people are mad that the game isn't balanced at an individual level, when in fact that's not the point at all?
what about pvp? thats not directly group content. can be 2v2's or 3v3's
freja Lenschow 10v10 rbgs btw
@@TrixAreForKicks 2v2 and 3v3 are literally group content.
Flame War:
*ENGAGE*
Retail: every body got a heal to use in combat but arms warrior.
Victory Rush?
True Falcon only works if we get a kill. Impending Victory is the other option but it’s also not very good, good CD though.
I'm pretty sure impending is the trade off for vic rush? But its the only heals in combat I believe
Mage does too?
@@insanodeathguy2160 they fixed that with the blink azerite trait. also Shields
i always remember the moment i got Shadowmourne on my warrior in wotlk first thing i did was entering in a BG and hitting 10k+ mortal strikes on low geared people was the best feeling ever
Taeschalach was the last weapon I got that I remember being excited about and that was for lore and aesthetic reasons; not stats or being useful...especially because I didn’t get it to drop until several months into BfA.
"How is loot nor boring in classic wow"
Bro if you play the game 24/7 for months and don't even touch suboptimal pieces because everything has been prepicked months before release EVERYTHING is boring.
For the time when it was made the loot in vanilla was great. Even in classic during the levelling the loot was very interesting and if you didn't play by guide 100% it was fun in endgame too. Even playing with a guide you still had interesting descisions during the gearing process.
LOOT IS ALWAYS BORING ONCE YOU HAVE THE BEST LOOT.
because you are comparing in your head but to me we are talking about the game that work pretty well for YEARS
Why is it that 90% of the time someone defends classic, they have to say, "For it's time" in some fashion or another. It's not 2008 anymore.
@@greekgodx6560 The game's design was made at that time. We are supoosed to have learned a lot since then, so we should have different standards.
Also i am pretty sure i mentioned that it is still good today. It's just that the game has been out for so long and everyone knew how to powerlevel, skipping most itemisation descisions during leveling and then knew the BIS in endgame, skipping most itemisation in endgame. Even given ALL THAT i still feel like overall i had more fun with the items in classic than i had when i played during legion and bfa.
@@greekgodx6560 In order for it to be a fair comparison, you have to look at classic in its historical context from when it was new content when comparing it to contemporary content.
@@greekgodx6560 no it's not 2008 hence why people say it
Blizzard is in Cali, where people think you should be born in at the same item level as a wealthy businessman. This is reflected in Retail WoW.
I also agree the core idea behind Corruptions is actually very good and interesting.
However, the way you get corruptions is extremely bad. At first it was pure RNG or buying a 2 million gold boe. Now it's an absolutely insane grind and then you can't even get it because you have to wait for the rotation.
Blizzard just loves ruining good ideas.
Would have been a lot better if Mother was a vendor for corruption from the start and not just the last leg of the expansion.
Tychus last leg? What the fuck
Classic Druid is my favorite class ever made in an mmo. Remained that way for long time.
Why? Because it was exactly what I pictured a Druid being in that world, that fantasy. A shapeshifter. Capable of damage, defense, and healing & buffing.
The Swiss Army knife of classes.
Once they gutted the shapeshifting aspect of the class it was completely ruined imo.
If you knew how to play the class correctly you could take on anyone 1v1 and have a good chance at survival.
wheres the mention of the lack of diminishing return days and Rogues dominating you in wedding dresses while keep you in a never ending stun lock
We want balance, water puts out fire, fire burns grass, water makes grass grow. Blizzard heard balance and thought we wanted water to be the same as fire...
It's cool that you can find uses for bad items in classic like the corn staff from bwl with 40 int is super good for aoe farming mages.
Also the overall feeling of getting lets say onslaught belt is way better than getting a generic mythic belt from the current raid tier in retail which is kinda weird because it's not like onslaught belt has anything that's that exciting.
Fun note he mentions demon hunter tanks don't have a "thing" but I would argue they are self sustain tanks. I am often the designated off tank of raids, and my self heal can allow the healers to not focus me long enough to stop a raid wipe
17:00 Which is exactly why Final Fantasy 14 is not alt friendly. The grind is 1:1 for all characters. That was months is still months. Gotta do the whole story, the whole grind, ALL OF IT again. 1 character can do literally everything. There are absolutely zero systems for alts. You can't even send mail to yourself! You gotta use the market board and buy your own stuff to transfer stuff and funds between characters. And remember, blizz wants to be more like FF14.
@@kubi0461 Some people would like to play with buddies across data centers or simply to play as something other than whatever their first character is. Like what if you wanna play a midlander girl and a hrothgar?
These grinds are made as if the very notion of having multiple characters doesn't exist. Even the moggle shop to a very large extent does this. 3 or 7 dollars for an emote PER CHARACTER among other things.
Systems that WoW has been trying to imitate since Legion. The most abhorrent thing about this is that WoW is still on top. They have no reason to be more like FF14. Anyone who knows WoW knows the players won't like it.
Other topics may be more complex but loot is simple, when you make it all about just plain number increase (aka offstats) people will just check if the number is bigger or if the addon says +x% increase and equip it. Whenever you had gear sets or random effects, either you run full simulations (which 90% playerbase won't do) or have a tiered list of gear (which won't matter to most casual/average players) or you just have to make a choice to use it or not (which makes the item meaningful). That's what makes the game interesting imo.
One of my most memorable days in gaming was back in vanilla when I had the blue warrior pvp set with lion heart, MC girdle etc and I got the zin rohk destroyer of worlds, server first. I went to ironforge, respeced to sword spec in arms, queued arathi basin and deleted people for hours. The weight of items in vanilla made the game fun and memorable. I miss those days.
I only REALLY played warlock, but even then I could feel when they made big balance changes as this class, even when my class was hardly touched. When I started playing in early BC I quickly grew to love destruction spec, and mained it for a majority of my time with WoW. Back in BC I was topping most damage meters in most expansions I played (skipped some expansions, and don't play anymore). Took a break when MoP came along, and rejoined with WoD... WoD KILLED my love for the game. I may have been a tad rusty when I returned, but proper spell rotation is like riding a bike, you don't forget it! I would squeezing in every drop of damage I could between queuing up spells between global cooldowns, and getting best in slot versions of gear. Even then I was regularly being out damaged by classes that previously struggled to keep up with me, and they beat my damage in their sleep.
24:32 THIS is why i loved the weapons that dropped in cata, they were cool, they looked cool, they had awesome effects. We need more weapons like this, all the time, cool shit that actually is good. Weapons should always be epic like that. It's a god damn joke
I think you loved it better put remember loving them so much because the graphics upgrade from wotlk to cats type weps was immense. Now the weps are even better, but it all can look cool and it's all the same and we have 10000 of em so meh
@@Wowbeezz nahh I just loved the proc on the weapons. Only weapon visually I liked was gurth because it was a big boi
Reminds me of one raid event where after demon hunters was unlocked. The raid was flooded with demon hunters. Was an interesting time playing as a guardian tank during those fights.
i played alts all bfa so i didn't really get to mess around with corruptions
Same... I played BFA a lot but somehow I never really reached endgame content. I have so many characters with fragments of the mainstory done but non with all. I have like one character that did the essence quests & story so that one has more than just the very first essence. And all characters are geared with the same world quest shit. One character did the visions pre quest but had so bad gear that the visions were just no fun and I never farmed stuff to enter again... I really only do alt stuff this expansion. Feels so weird. Like I played a lot during BFA but never really BFA content D:
+1
Bro i've tried doing alts but the grind is just asinine
@@EnderGoku9001 ive done the cloak quest like 20 times
I feel like every proposition Asmo makes for WoW already exists in FFXIV! Its really a shame he doesnt give it a chance.
Ffxiv is boring tho. I tried for over 10 hours to get into it, just doesnt do anything for me
@@TrippinAlpaca i get what you mean,the classes are so boring for the first many levels and ofc its a problem but the game starts becoming way way better at higher lvls
@@alexvoyd1132 yeah, I hear that from friends a lot, but games like WoW and OSRS suck you in quick with immersion and stories. That has a lot to do with themes of the games themselves though. I dont have any interest in the final fantasy series, so the art style and world dont really do it for me. I enjoy taverns and ale as a place to live out another "life" so to speak.
But I may give it another try after I'm done with valheim
@@TrippinAlpaca it surely is a flaw of the game. You can't ask from the player to play 30h before the game starts being good!! Other games have less gametime than that. But it surely becomes better later so its up to anyone's patience
I think the big jump was to mist of pandaria when they even toke away the talent tree
But then, people want to just have permanent access to every covenant class ability bc "I need to be able to adapt on the fly"
This is why you shouldn't allow angry gamers to design your video game for you.
But how is that a bad thing? just let players do like a 1h grind of some sort to change cov, with no timegate on it. That way you can change your class depending on what you want to do. Nobody is unique anymore because of the classes, why keep that mentality?
If you like changing spec on the fly then covs should be the same way
Balance does not exist.
It is ephemeral phantom, its very existence based on subjectiveness.
True "balance" exist in constant, cruel changes + lack of player's ability to try everything in a game without any difficulties.
Talent changes should not exist. Leveling should be hard, long lasting.
Fraction should be 1 server only, there should be no opportunity to change it for money.
Etc, etc, etc.
And the more popular game becomes, the more people are experienced in it; ballance will require more sacrifices for its existence.
Because ballance exist in either infinite possibilities or in New environment.
You don't understand. Retail = bad, everything else = good. You can say "Unbalanced = good" because it makes you unique and groups can compensate each others' weaknesses, but only if you say "Retail = bad, not unique, too balanced". If Retail becomes unbalanced, you can't say that anymore because Retail must always = bad. People have been pointing out these logical fallacies for a long time, but the majority still screech when they hear Retail and always spam Pog when they show any other (literal trash) MMO.
I miss the time in 2005 when your friend killed you 10 times in a duel because he pulled some new moves and you got raving mad at him then later you meet up at the skate park, smoke weed and everything was good.
For real
frfr
i still go to the skatepark tho
I'd choose making things viable as opposed to balanced. Nothing will be perfectly balanced, but when I enter a group I'd rather people say "Oh a shaman." as opposed to "Oh, a shaman.".
Perfect balance is not boring, it's the dream of every videogame.
Every time a game is perfectly balanced it is a great game. Look at rock/paper/scissor or chess or some other balanced game. They are pretty simple compared to our games now days, but the balance makes them awesome and fun.
If you wanna argue with me about that i'm open too. The perfect balance is the way to success.
items in classic are so much better. he forgot that you have an defensive bonus aswell to base stats like agility(dodge) and str(block). so for pvp you pick agy and str ( raw stats) over attack power or crit. just a little example.
Blizzard can't seem to force the player to adapt to the game any longer. Covenants are a good example of this, they wanted you to chose one and not change things. Players scream and they take it back a step so you have the option to change but if you want to join the original one again it takes time. Players don't care about uniqueness they just want the option to choose what is the best for every single situation with no weakness.
The same happens with people talking about their class, they point out all of their weaknesses and ignore or downplay their strengths. They want everything to be the same and homogenized. You can't just blame Blizzard here but the player base itself.
There is no reason why Resilience, Hit, Spellhit, Resistance, and Penetration shouldn't be in the game. While Asmon wasn't entirely wrong about them being just a benchmark you felt like you needed to hit, but that was part of what made it interesting. You had many gearing paths to reach those benchmarks based on how lucky you were, how committed you were, what class you picked, and what reputations you chose to grind. If you prioritized Hit above all else, like in the cases of Rogues and Priests in PvP for example, where a Kidney failing, a Fear failing, multiple offensive Dispels failing, could really toss a wrench into your strategy; then you had to figure out a different combination of gear, sockets, and in some cases invest talent points to reach that benchmark in order to play optimally. And when you finally got the missing piece of gear you wanted, you could then swap out the sub-optimal makeshift pieces of gear you had in place simply to meet the soft-cap you wanted for ones with other stats that bring you closer to completion.
Meta-gems for example, what happened to those? I found that they were really interesting, and could potentially be more interesting with the newer expansions. It wasn't uncommon to swap out gems on your whole gear every single time you got an item upgrade, and that just funneled straight into the economy. You'd often have to lose on socket-bonuses simply to get a meta to function. The same goes for enchants, be they through enchanters, leatherworkers, or just tiresome reputation grinds. That's why I have such a great fondness for TBC, as slow-paced as it was, it really taught players the value of +10 hit whenever we'd swap out entire pieces of gear, gems, and enchants simply to meet a stat benchmark or to not overcap on it. Not to mention the progression raiding system that meant certain items, particularly trinkets, were always sought after no matter how outdated the content was; think Quagmirran's Eye from heroic UB being a make-shift Skull of Gul'dan until you were lucky enough to get it. That also ties into personalized loot and how being showered with gear and rewards just makes upgrades so much less rewarding and memorable.
Older expansions just did a much better job of providing a fun and engaging MMO experience that was propelled by player-agency.
My favorite time was gemming my hunters gear
"Shamans are OP" the classic andys shout in Arathi Basin while their plate wearing healer pops his third invuln spell and continues healing through the teamfight with 5 people comboing on him mid-cast.
Blizzard just needs to bring "Epic" gear "Epic" again
MEGA
Make epics great again
Yes. I can't name a single piece of gear that my character has except for the Wrathion trinket because it has cool wings
I haven't played WoW much (never paid for it), but have played quite a lot of rpg's. Balancing isn't always boring. With imbalance you'll end up with some classes/ races barely being played because they are weak. It depends on how you balance things. You can give everyone the same kit, but that would be boring indeed. DPS classes can have the same max output, but the way you get to that damage could be way different. Same ofcourse for other type of classes.
Itemsets can be good. I think that the best in slot equipment should not be part of a set. This way a lower tier equipment with a set bonus can be viable to some point, but should still be worse than best in slot equipment set without set bonus. This way the player has to think about when it's worth to equip the better in slot items. Also each individual item of the best in slot gear is more noticeable than if it were in a set with a bonus.
Im so sad that Reforging didnt come back in shadowlands.. you can still get "better" items with totally wrong stats, so you will loose dps from equiping them
Modern game developers are simply unable to implement effective loot systems. Absolutely unable.
I remember really good when rogues and warriors start healing passiv like warlocks in cata... game was done for me at that point it's so muc hbetter if not everyone has everything...
that never happened though.
Warlocks have healthstones, and had way betetr self healing. And portals.
@@rickroll9705 And now everyone has selfheal? That actually happend in cata and is still in the game...
@@tegridyfarmer2581 soo? They all work differently and franky are easily counterable by specs that dont even have one like arms warriors whhich had one in TBC btw and was OP af.
in TBC healers gained 30% of spell power coming from ehaling power, the obvious answer was giving away self heals to other dps by the same reason healers gained damage lol.
@@rickroll9705 soo? And now everyone has everything and feels the same?
Class design in Wotlk was way better than in Wod, Legion or BFA.
@@rickroll9705 Bay the way did u see the video?
15:06 This is the reason why I quit the first time after logging everyday for the last 12 years. I put months into my character to get the BiS item for PvP in every slot, each with sockets and corruption, all the rank 3 essences that I need. And I didn't feel any stronger than other players in PvP. Still losing 1v1 against some undergeared classes. I'm not saying I'm very good in PvP. But back in WotlK, I remember dominating bg's and winning 1v3, just because I had full s6/7. And that took me about 2 weeks to get. At that time I was still a little noob kid that had no clue about the game and was clicking most of the buttons.
Your time and effort you put into the game/your character are so devalued nowadays.
This is exactly why pvp needs the gear flattening/templating. If you're the worse player in pvp you should lose. If you want to win, get better. Gear should be the reward for being good, not the requirement to even compete.
oh, i feel that, i played from tbc on free server, mainly pvp, it was so great to one shot people, or as i was healer, be unkillable by non geared pvp players
@@ArborusVitae Why should pvp needd gear flattening/templating if the timesink required to be competitive isnt even that big? At least before it you could actually see yourself become both, better and stronger at the same time. I myself really enjoy basic character progression even in endgame.
Why wouldnt you want the same flattening and templating for pve then.. the better the player the easier the raid.. why overcome a raid solely because the entire raidgroup is completly overgeared?
I experienced it first hand during legion. My guild was filled with clueless people who didnt even know how to properly gear their characters, didnt know how to play their characters, were too lazy to really focus on how mechanics work etc.. when we finally beat en on hc, basically everybody had so good gear that only titanforged/warforged gear couldve been upgrades for them.
@@ArborusVitae no, it's an MMORPG. The time and effort you put into your character and it's progression should matter. If you want skill to be the only thing that matters, you should play something like cs:go or league.
@@kuhnandreas5694 It does matter. The more time you've put in, the better you'll get as you master your character. You also get rewarded for that skill progression with gear progression. It's just that the gear shouldn't matter in ranked formats (arena, RBGs) to ensure good competition. If I'm playing PvP I want good matches. Stomping or being stomped are both boring.
16:40 that rant reminds me of the Final Fantasy mmo. I don't play mmos but that _IS_ pretty useful sharing all that stuff on one character.
"they make it too easy!!"
"i love that you can 1 stat things and be a god"
asmon has more continuity errors then blizzard
@@brianviktor8212 what are you smoking, its verbetim what asmongold said. He cant make up his mind, and he cant follow through. Whatever is popular in chat is his current opinion and åpoint of view
@@vikingjack9994 I disagree given he can't even really see what chats saying due to the delay on streams, that, and he often has different reactions to things that chat goes on about, its actually the other way around- whatever he thinks is funny the chat thinks is funny, etc. He's also balding so he probly forgets his opinions every now and then.
You know, the loot in current comes off far worse when you consider that the colours of the items are referred to as rarity is most games. Grey = junk, White = Common, Green = Uncommon, Blue = Rare, etc etc. When you apply that to current wow you come to the realisation that the colours are basically meaningless now.
Rather than having shitloads of greens that are a dime a dozen, a large collection of blues that are more powerful but still fairly quantiful, and then the purples which are WAY more significant but in tiny amounts by comparison (and of course the legendaries that are literally legendary in the sense that you'd see so few of them,) in current you have just a bunch of items of damn near equal quantity where the colour is only relevant to the Ilevel, not the actual significance of the item. Sure there are some more interesting items out there, but those are far and few between and not really of any remark by comparison.
1 thing is for sure, classic is more about consumeables and enginerring more than class balance (in pvp) Meaning those factors can outscale imbalance more than class variety
My favorite weapon in classic?
The Nightblade. Level 39 Epic 2H Sword. Enchanted with Crusader. I will never forget twinking level 39 BG's on my Arms warrior.
Some gonna complaint class stacking if Blizzard actually made the change
I thought this was gonna be a spiffing brit video.
frost mage has a legendary in shadowlands that makes frost nova not break from your dmg, and they are frozen, so every ice lance crits for 5k.. and u can spam it. and u can have 2 charges of frost nova. so 16 seconds of critting instant casts
Rock Paper Scissors balance is best for RPGs.
Hard counters aren't bad if every class has one.
Please shave your head Zack, it's over. I'm saying this because I care.
OMG, now that i looked better I cant but feel bad for him
The sad thing is that he wouldn't look half bad if he'd fcking shave his had. Idk if he's ashamed or something, ageing is natural.
Let the man live ffs
He would def look better with it shaved, but probably won't shave it.
Heisenberg Image change incoming? ;D would look pretty cool ■|B-{
The worst is, Blizz have perfect example of account wide practice - Diablo3. You have account wide stuff, and specific , class bases achievs or weps.
Survival is the red headed step child.
Mommy doesn't give him any milkies.
I will never forget Robes of Insight dropping for me. I was playing Vanilla, trying all the classes trying to decide what I liked to play. While leveling a priest one randomly dropped of trash. I remember almost shitting myself over seeing the purple item text. I mained that priest all the way through cata.
6 months later Paladin explodes people and warriors are a fking 1 shot monster 😂😂😂 my poor hunter kites like that kid being chased by chickens, the diablo inferno meme.
The difference between wow and battlefield balances is that the m4 is the best rifle in real life so the game should reflect that because it tries to be realistic
I feel like Asmons chat literally just reacts the same way he does instead of thinking for themselves. Like, If he found something very funny but made an angry face, his chat would hate it 🙃
thats not asmons chat thats twitch chat basically
@@benrakow3396 Well, that is group thinking humans. It is the same thing for politicians, parties, movements, actors, community leaders. If you identify with a group, then you are more likely to just go with their narrative.
I think this just a case of people saying if they agree rather then them all agreeing. Openly disagreeing about anything in a friendly place is kinda a dick move unless its something serious. Just another effect of the lovely twitch parasocial relationships lol.
I agree with whatever you said in your comment.
I would have to agree with you. I don't play WoW and in the Caterpillar video he said that most of his fan base doesn't play wow. Put simply, I just agree with Asmon because I have no base in WoW to judge it off of nor do I have time to build one.
3:42 mage cast fireball on nef
In classic fire spec is much preferable in phase 5 (AQ) 6 (Naxx). Fire mages won't deal as much dmg as arcane mages casting frostbolt (if they have similar spell power) but its preferable not spending 100g for respec just to do a BWL every week when you do AQ, Naxx raids which requires fire
@@azerith221 nef is immune to fire damage
If every class is unique and not specs having defensives and be able perform any task needed, people will class stack and be like wow classic with all warriors
kinda disagree with the whole "balance is boring" thing but i see why you said that, in my mind balance isn't boring if not matter which class you pick you have the tools to beat any class in the game and it all comes down to how you use them. It truly rewards skill and game mechanics understanding. But the thing is we are talking about perfection right here, and this is really unlikely that any game will be THAT balanced.
So yeah i feel like the closest thing we can call a "balanced" game is basically a game where some classes can never defeat some classes but can never loose to other ones / some classes will just go in an endless and pointless fight because nobody has the tools to kill the other one. And in that case yeah it is boring and i agree with you, so yeah the whole "let each class shine" does make sense.
But i feel like balance is still something to go for in games because i know no better feeling than a hard won battle where you know skill is what made the difference between victory and certain death. There is other way to make a game balanced that are still to be explored or discovered that can give that feeling of "always" having a chance and still be entertaining.
Asmon has the most active brow of any man on planet Earth.
I really don't feel a lot of need to do most daily and weekly chores, but I really like Island Expeditions and knock those out every week on 6 characters. But I also want to push my Heart of Azeroths as high as I can to put off replacing it in Shadowlands.
16:43 That's probably why they don't let you swap alts easier. Since you'd play the class that's stronger a lot more usually, and balance issues would become significantly more blatant.
3:00 "is this secret of mana?" asmon, have you ever played any game but WoW in your childhood?
I find that I watch more Asmongold then I do anything else here on RUclips. His content and chat sperg are super entertaining to watch and I also enjoy bigtime when McCool joins in. These videos are on a triple A level of entertainment in my opinion :)
I love his chat, it's perfect twitch chat
exactly again i dont agree with the stuff he says but he is funny as hell lol
Rock, paper and scissors is best way to balance RPG's i think. So u can have your fun facerolling some classes, while u wont ragequit being facerolled by other. WHILE u can beat them if u have massive skill or gear.
that frost mage against the terminator is funny as hell
The scaling exists because a newly dinged level 120 has about 1/4th-1/6th the amount of HP of a fully geared one. If it was no scaling, a 120 with gear would kill a 120 without gear about as easy as a level 60 kills a level 20 in classic.
At least Classic nerfs class stacking with its loot system. Half the raid being warrs isn't so great a comp when most of them are still wearing dungeon blues, so you'd have to be specifically aiming for a record clear by using multiple groups to gear the warrs for it to work.
the classes were definitely complete in wotlk. THats why i LOVE wotlk more than tbc and classic. THe classes feels so fucking good
Most memorable mmorpg weapon that I ever had was in Asheron's call I built the top tier Siliphi of Crimson Stars. Took forever to farm out top mats. Had the top tier rubies in every slot. Had the top tier armordillo spine. It was fun. I loved my S.R.A.
Diverse Loot in classic... Faster Running Boots, Staff who lets you breath underwater, Staff which conjures foot, Furbolg Transformation, Stun Procs, Whirlwind Proc, Summon Tentacle or Dragon Proc, Breath of Fire Trinket, Lightling throwing Hemet, Double Attack speed Proc, Transform into Fish, Sword which lets you hear voices, Fairyfire casting Blade...
Sereously, how can you say its not more diverse?
"Rocks are OP and need to be nerfed; paper is fine." -Scissors
What i don't like about Retail wow is that EVERY SINGLE CLASS has an interupt/kick/silience or even all of them.
i got a good laugh from the " i wish these things were account wide so all of my characters could use them" and watching the "so play ffxiv" in chat, so true. this is exactly FFXIV, granted its the same toon but overall if you earn sometyhing on your alt 99% of the time you can use it on your main or vice versa. I really hope the asmongold community doesnt scare him off :/
the problem around 24:00 is not that big of a deal tho... 3 years from now people will still remember a trinket called drestgath lol. Like most of us still remember diamond prism right
i dont play wow but im here to say i thought the deadly premonition whistle song at the start of the video was a great touch
Fun fact. Every piece of cloth and leather armor that you craft has the exact same stats in classic. Armor rating, main stat, and stamina.
Everything in that video is pretty much right except the loot section, there is plenty of gear I can specifically remember in bfa that had extra effects that even had weird stats on it from the raids, its just not as common anymore.
I like that they make you choose between alts and having stuff like corruptions. Makes it more time consuming for people to reroll the meta every patch
Well I for one think the balance WAS "perfect" in vanilla or so good that people complaining about it are just unaware of the main truth: Not every class _requires_ the same cost in time/gold/consumables/repairs/equipment/role. A warlock in p1 does the same as a warlock in p6, show up cast shadow bolt and get loot. The commitment your main tank needs making Thunderfury in phase 1 is more than is required over the entirety of classic wow for just about every other class, and it is compounded by FR gear, NR gear, tank/dps gear, the list goes on. The balance is created where people that can and do play exponentially more than another is better served playing a class that requires and it turn rewards it.
I started late into 8.3.
. Like July or something.
And looking back in time I do wish it was the way it was in wotlk whereby my starting late was cause for me to experience everything from nax,ulduar, toc and the frozen thrine!
Hunter beats warlock.
Ha. Hahaha. Hahaha. Ha.
And dies immediately to dots.
The whole loot situation regarding classic is probably because it's all over the place most of the time. You can get really good gear for certain slots from different places, be it BRD, crafting, zul, MC or DM. Not necessarily BiS equipment, but just good stuff from different places. Also a lot of janky items with weird procs or use effects. You could and can still map out your character, check all the places you want to go to get decent gear to get into raiding and so on. I gotta go here, farm HoJ, gotta get gladiator chain and a lions helmet yada yada. In retail it's more like, I gotta cap X different caps, pray to RNG gods that the right secondaries are on the gear and usally equip the highest iLvL possible (unless corruption).
Not to mention a lot of janky meme builds possible for the hybrid classes, with fringe gear that gets interesting IMO.
Is it inherently good, no. Do I think it's better than retail ? Probably. I miss caring about loot as well, the sheer quantity one get's drowned by in terms of items is staggering. But it's rough with LFR, farmable M+, Arenas and BGs as well as regular raids to not be knee-deep in loot.
I think we need more diverse loot, more stats, more different distribution, more janky trinkets, less epics, maybe reforging, old gems and such back.
But that's just on the loot front, WoW has many more problems IMO, that need some attention. They made it so easy to play the game solo. So hard to connect to people. They kinda cut away the RPGey nature of the game more and more in the pursuit of balance.
On the PvP issues. Just give PvP gear PvP stats, give everyone a base set, or a craftable set that is better than lets say normal / heroic gear, because it gets 30iLvL boost (blues). Don't escelate gladiator gear / high rating stuff into oblivion and widen the gap unnecessarily. Now you have noobs who can jump into pvp and not get immediatly dumpstered yet are at an disadvantage against seasoned pvp players and you can get rid off the weird scaling stuff. PvP players get their gear via PvP. PvE players don't need to play PvP because the iLvL boost only works in PvP. Done.
I wouldn't really say it's easy to play the game solo, unless you consider doing LFR and LFD to be "playing the game". You obviously can pug m+ and raids, but you could pug raids and dungeons in vanilla just as well as now. And let's be honest, you are not really gonna push keys or progress mythic by puging, which is the actual pve endgame. You still need friends and/or a guild for that.
being easy to play solo was one of the main selling arguments of vanilla compared to competing mmos
@@MrFuckingKololo What I meant was, that I don't have to communicate for most content at all. you can pug keys up to +15 and do heroic clears without ever writing with someone. It doesn't really matter what endgame is, when only a fraction of players actually do that content. It's about the majority. And blizzard implemented a ton of systems that let's you skip most social aspects of the game. Dungeon finder, LFR, the LFG tool in general. People pop into and out of groups instantly, no one actually talks anymore, that was different for me in classic, where I frequently quested with strangers, helped them or got help myself, finding groups for dungeons, or chatting along during downtime, when some needed to fly to the instance and so on. They made it really convenient to play by yourself, not necessarily solo though, maybe that fits better.
Nobody wants to play a BG at lvl 51 fighting lvl 59 players that also outgear you and you have no chance to win.
The same thing was when people made twinks in classic to never lose to anyone except for a twink if the classes had a chance against eachother.
One shot new players on trial accounts who probably thought they were cheating and then quit the game.
In World pvp however / Duels i do like these things and ofc in PvE this should allways be a thing.
I do like the old loot where there were more unique items when it came to stats and looks.
Or a chance to win that legendary item of Scarlet that is what motivated you to do the same dungeon a lot.
It is also a shame that every season some clases were very bad and some very good, if that happened to be your main that was bad and you didnt have a lot of time, you might as well quit or level a new character while leaving your favourite behind.
By the time you were max you were so far behind you didnt have a achievement to participate in raids.
they should have given every class a group buff and a nice role / combo in PvP so every class allways had a need to be in every Meta.
can't watch the video unless the bald man reacts to it
in wrath is when the homogenization started. Wotlk was the first expac when multiple classes had the same buff. Examples of this are Horn of winter / Strength of earth (Agil Str), Blessing of might / Battleshout, Icy talons / windfury totem.
Ive been complaining for years saying that the only differences between the classes now are the particle colors rendered during the cast of a spell. Priest is like warrior, except for the fact that priests spell causes white particles and Warriors ability produces red particles. The end of MoP was tolerable but not optimal. After MoP it all just went to shit and kept falling off at a rapid rate. There were some points in the last couple years that the game wasnt garbage, BfA was an improvment, but shadowlands was not. Shadowlands made me grateful for WoD lol.
Condition the mind for compliance. Remove merit, remove exceptionalism, remove will. And ultimately, remove existence.
'bring the player not the class' really fucked up class design in cata. But MoP class design was really fun and then it went downhill again especially legion then bfa to the point where most just arent fun anymore
I just want tiers sets and special effect on weapons. Hit chance and stuff too.
I still remember how good it felt to reach the CRAZY hit cap you needed on fury warrior.
I think a raid that can only be beaten with alliance ad a dungeon for Horde based on class ability would be universal.