the Cleveland Orchestra is phenomenal, truly one of the best on the planet. This original version of Bruckner's Eighth Symphony is a challenge, which the musicians overcome with brilliance. Franz Welser Möst, extremely serious, is courageous in defending this original version. Great video
@@jamesbattista1466, it was in August 2010, as a free concert. I don’t know if they did it more than one night, but it wasn’t a regular subscription concert.
@@markwolf1374 I was there in May, not for the special August concerts. I’m still trying to figure out if the video shown here was from that (made for dvd) concert or the normal subscription concerts in May.
This is the first time I have listened to this version of this symphony. There are big differences with later versions. What surprised me the most was the two times three cymbal hits in the adagio. I really didn't expect that from Bruckner. It's of course very interesting to hear this version. I prefer the final versions, but is that because they are better or just because I know them better? One listen is certainly not enough to judge. In any case, thank you for posting it. 🙏
@@gottfriedheumesser1994 I did not know these two sentences by Bruckner. I knew that he had written, on the score of the 7th, opposite the added cymbal hit: "not valid". Which poses the problem of the versions of this 7th. Then, he wrote two cymbal hits in the adagio of the 8th and one in the cantata Helgoland. The second sentence seems to say that he accepts the cymbals. But when did he say that? At the time of the 7th or the 8th? I suppose the version of the video the cymbal hits are Bruckner's. He reduced the number to two in the following versions.
@@selcano0575 Excuse me, but it was my error to mix the cymbal with the harp. In German a 'Zymbal' (Hung. 'Cymbalom') is a Hungarian cord instrument to be beaten with some hammers that also exists in Slovakia, Romania, Moldova, Belarus, and Ukraine. with similar names. Zoltan Kodaly used it in his 'Hary Janos Suite, but also Liszt and Stravinsky. Originally Bruckner's sentence was: "Eine Harfe gehört in kein Symphonieorchester!" After his Eighth: "Ich habe mir nicht anders helfen können." (A harp does not belong to a symphony orchestra / I could not help myself otherwise).
It's been many years since I listened to the Eighth Symphony as Bruckner initially wrote it. For Welser-Möst to keep playing it, he must regard it as having value. To my ears, I hear a brighter, less ominous sound than the final version that we all know well. The slow tempo brought out details that normally get concealed in what one critic called the final version's "sonic onslaughts". Bruckner seems a less overbearing composer, and I was sometimes reminded of the gentler Second Symphony, also in C minor. On the debit side, there are many places where the initial version seems awkward, even gauche compared to the final version. But then, personal awkwardness and gaucherie seem consistent with the portrait of the composer described by some of his contemporaries. It was refreshing to hear this again, but I wouldn't choose it over the final version for repeated listening.
Whoa, love the split screens! Just wish they were bigger and filled up the whole screen. Also like the pans & close-ups... Of course, the conducting is wonderful TOO. :D
The video director proved that he had planned every detail according to the score. I remember a "seventh' taken in St. Florian. At the climax of the second movement with cymbals, they showed the marvelous baroque paintings. Not a true masterpiece!
1:12:45 Since Tokyo, October 20, 1990 (Nowak Critical Edition,1955), for Chelibidache/Munich Phillarmonic Orchestra, I hadn't heard the March with same tempo and solemnity. Fact: Nowak Edition (1972)
Wonderful performance. Thank you to all. A suggestion for the director would be to skip the split screens and closeup cutaways of architectural details of the concert hall, all of which only serve to distract from the musical art.
Boring, poor and mediocre, the interpretation is not Bruckner. Deficient managerial resources to extract the great possibilities of the wonderful Philadelphia orchestra
Fascinating to hear what now sounds like a preliminary sketch for the actual work.
the Cleveland Orchestra is phenomenal, truly one of the best on the planet. This original version of Bruckner's Eighth Symphony is a challenge, which the musicians overcome with brilliance. Franz Welser Möst, extremely serious, is courageous in defending this original version. Great video
I was in the audience for this!
Mark, which day was this? I was there Friday and also Saturday.
@@jamesbattista1466, it was in August 2010, as a free concert. I don’t know if they did it more than one night, but it wasn’t a regular subscription concert.
@@markwolf1374 I was there in May, not for the special August concerts. I’m still trying to figure out if the video shown here was from that (made for dvd) concert or the normal subscription concerts in May.
Me too!
This is the first time I have listened to this version of this symphony. There are big differences with later versions. What surprised me the most was the two times three cymbal hits in the adagio. I really didn't expect that from Bruckner. It's of course very interesting to hear this version. I prefer the final versions, but is that because they are better or just because I know them better? One listen is certainly not enough to judge. In any case, thank you for posting it. 🙏
Bruckner: A cymbal does not belong to a symphony orchestra!
later: I couldn't help myself otherwise!
@@gottfriedheumesser1994 I did not know these two sentences by Bruckner. I knew that he had written, on the score of the 7th, opposite the added cymbal hit: "not valid". Which poses the problem of the versions of this 7th. Then, he wrote two cymbal hits in the adagio of the 8th and one in the cantata Helgoland. The second sentence seems to say that he accepts the cymbals. But when did he say that? At the time of the 7th or the 8th? I suppose the version of the video the cymbal hits are Bruckner's. He reduced the number to two in the following versions.
@@selcano0575 Excuse me, but it was my error to mix the cymbal with the harp. In German a 'Zymbal' (Hung. 'Cymbalom') is a Hungarian cord instrument to be beaten with some hammers that also exists in Slovakia, Romania, Moldova, Belarus, and Ukraine. with similar names. Zoltan Kodaly used it in his 'Hary Janos Suite, but also Liszt and Stravinsky.
Originally Bruckner's sentence was:
"Eine Harfe gehört in kein Symphonieorchester!"
After his Eighth: "Ich habe mir nicht anders helfen können." (A harp does not belong to a symphony orchestra / I could not help myself otherwise).
@@gottfriedheumesser1994 OK. Thanks for your answer
It's been many years since I listened to the Eighth Symphony as Bruckner initially wrote it. For Welser-Möst to keep playing it, he must regard it as having value. To my ears, I hear a brighter, less ominous sound than the final version that we all know well. The slow tempo brought out details that normally get concealed in what one critic called the final version's "sonic onslaughts". Bruckner seems a less overbearing composer, and I was sometimes reminded of the gentler Second Symphony, also in C minor. On the debit side, there are many places where the initial version seems awkward, even gauche compared to the final version. But then, personal awkwardness and gaucherie seem consistent with the portrait of the composer described by some of his contemporaries. It was refreshing to hear this again, but I wouldn't choose it over the final version for repeated listening.
wunderbarer Bruckner
Whoa, love the split screens! Just wish they were bigger and filled up the whole screen. Also like the pans & close-ups... Of course, the conducting is wonderful TOO. :D
The video director proved that he had planned every detail according to the score.
I remember a "seventh' taken in St. Florian. At the climax of the second movement with cymbals, they showed the marvelous baroque paintings. Not a true masterpiece!
Bruckner nos acerca a Dios. Sublime.
1:12:45
Since Tokyo, October 20, 1990 (Nowak Critical Edition,1955), for Chelibidache/Munich Phillarmonic Orchestra, I hadn't heard the March with same tempo and solemnity.
Fact: Nowak Edition (1972)
Can someone tell me what day this was? Thursday, Friday, or Saturday?
Wonderful performance. Thank you to all. A suggestion for the director would be to skip the split screens and closeup cutaways of architectural details of the concert hall, all of which only serve to distract from the musical art.
I love the shots of Severance Hall. I don't think they distract at all from the music. It's a thrill every time I enter that glorious place.
このクライマックスには驚きました‼️
I assume it's the Nowak 1973 edition based on the longer 1887 manuscript? Most interesting.
Honte à vous
フィナーレは終結のところが問題なのですがこれは上手く処理してますね😊 コーダの
スケルツオ主題再現は最終稿はやや唐突なのに対し初稿のほうが管弦が勢いづいてからの再現なので自然です。
OMG WHEN WILL YOU LEARN HOW TO USE STERO????? this channel has so many great performances, all RUINED by poor sound!!!!!
Boring...poor...mediocre? Don't be shy! Tell us what you REALLY think! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
prise de son mauvaise
Poor poor
Do you refer to the performance here?
Boring, poor and mediocre, the interpretation is not Bruckner. Deficient managerial resources to extract the great possibilities of the wonderful Philadelphia orchestra
Are you saying it's NOT the Cleveland Orchestra, as it says?
@@terryquinn1419 He is the master of confusion!