300 Savage The ORIGINAL 308 Winchester?
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Welcome to the RSO Podcast! In this episode, I read an article I wrote about an amazing pronghorn hunt I went on in Colorado.
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdo...
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
When the 300 sav. barks you know a 🦌 is down.
I'm so glad this finally came up!! I have a Savage 99 in 300 Savage that I really admire. It was my great grandpa's and I even have a picture of him holding it along the side of an elk!
Love mine ,and my 81 .
Mirror image story for me, wish I could share the photo on here.
@@chrisfenske4051 same!
Love mine!
I have my dad's Savage 99 in .300 too. Got my first deer an antelope with it. It's a genius lever action with great features and strength. It's kind of a "steam punk" looking rifle with a future/retro feel.
.300 savage in a model 99 will always hold a special place in my heart. I took my first deer with one at 11 years old and ever since then I always try to take a deer with the .300 during deer season.
300 savage gets requested of me a lot - I have ever only known one person to own a 300 savage. I have never seen a rifle with my own eyes for sale in 300 savage.
Just got done watching your new video
My father left me a model 99 in 300 savage wouldn't part with it for anything .
They were quite common on the used gun racks during the the closing decades of the last century. They began to command a premium price when Savage closed its doors.
I have a few Savage 99 in . 300 Savage and 250-3000
I see them at every gunshow. Probably 3 to 1 for any other caliber.
The 99 Savage rotary magazine was not removable. The later removable magazine of the Model 99C from the1960's stacked cartridges like a bolt action.
The thing about the 300 sav is NOT the cartridge but the rifle itself. It was and is to this date the superior lever action rifle. The best balanced, handiest and stylish lever gun ever made.
With its sleek, sexy elegance. It carries lite and fits in the hand like a tailored custom knife. It comes to shoulder like an extension of your body. Then tracks a running stag like it's directly wired to your eyes and instincts. The rifle agrees with the shooters heighten instincts like a perfectly paired couple of figure skaters. I as the shooter was always stuned and applauded the rifle upon the incredibly made shot. The rifle in my hands seemed to be proud to be in my hands. We danced a dance in perfect harmony. That brought a respectable end to the reign and the royalty of the superior species of the north woods.
I have taken so many deer and bears with a model 99 300 Sav. That I've lost count. It is absolutely the best and most handy north woods rifle ever made bar none of any action. I NEVER EVER fired more then one round at a game species with it. I squeezed and they fell. The rifle has a vary distinct sound also.
The guys at camp always told each other Russ scored again long before I would get back to camp. Love that old model 99, I finally retired it. Went to a ruger number 1 international. I like it also. Just not as much.
Many moose have fallen in the North Maine Woods to the old 300 savage.
I have lots of guns however dear season comes it’s my savage 99/ 300 savage since I was 10 years old. Still my go to
Dear season starts Feb 14th, right? ;)
No disrespect, just found the typo funny.
The .300 Savage is absolutely one of the finest cartridges ever designed. It was a wonder and miracle especially in it's time, and is still pretty serious medicine in 2022. With modern ingredients it deserves a higher placement in the scheme of things. John Barsness has pontificated on this one a bunch. He ain't wrong. A Remington model 7 in .300 Savage would be one heck of a package.
Ron...the .300 Savage would take almost anything up to 200 yards...still does! It was once said..."Don't ever underestimate a man with a .300 Savage!"
I have a hand built Remington Model 600 Mohawk in 250 Savage. It's my most prized possession.
Take a look at the .30 TC! It's pretty much the modern 300 savage.
At about the same time 270Win was already invented, which specifies MAP at 65,000psi, the limit since not exceeded until to the very recent and only 277FURY which is still vaporware. 300 Savage at 47,000 psi MAP was behind the time since the date it was created, even 30-06 has 60,000 psi MAP.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 except I don't think that stat is correct. The 250 Savage which came out first is 67,000 psi.
Ron...most of the older 300's had 24 " barrels...they would perform almost identical to a 22" 308! You are the Best today...if you can find an old study done by the U.S. Forest Service they tested all calibers for a charging Grizzley.their pick was the .375 H&H at short range...they had Winchester make several for them in 20" barrels...for easy carry. Interesting what came in second was a 220 grain 30/06...all at 20 yards!
I have a .300 Savage on a Mauser 93 action, built in 1960 (per the family friend who gifted it to me) by a gunsmith who most definitely knew what he was doing. It remains topped with its original Weaver K4, as I've never seen a reason to change it. A good ol' rifle.
Glad to see recognition for a true great American cartridge. I had a friend that I hunted with in Pennsylvania 50 odd years ago. It was and is still is a killer.
Not just American. When I hunted New Brunswick, Canada, all the guides there were carrying their Model 99 in .300 Savage and they took everything from partridge to moose and black bear with it.
Excellent as always. My maternal grandpa used an old Savage 99 in 300 as did his son, my uncle. My ant used a 99 in 250 Savage. She took all, or almost all the big game available in MT with that 250 including a moose.
More really big game has been taken with .300 Savage's daddy .250 Savage than some people, my self included, could possibly believe.
A. Savage was a genius who does not get nearly the recognition he deserves. Not only did he make probably the most accurate lever action of all time, along with other guns. but invented the radial tire also. He may not be John Browning, but he was in the same league in my book.
He invented and patented a number of things. The Savage 1895/1899, a magnetic tack hammer, a fiber sorting machine, finished the design on a drive-by-wire torpedo, some 22 rifles, belted tire, etc. An actual renaissance man.
Absolutely love the .300 Savage. Best lever gun ever made was the Savage 99 in .300 Savage. I am leaving mine to my grandsons.
Thank you for informing young shooters of some interesting historic facts that seems to be overlooked. The 250/3000 and 300 Savage are some of the first cartridges that used smokeless powder and still are as good as they always were. The 35 Remington could be added to the list too. It was one of the first autoloader cartridges. I remember seeing it promoted as the perfect bear stopper and moose rifle for woods work. Remington sold a lot of them in the northeast. In 1905 Winchester brought out the 351/ 35 Winchester self-loading rifle; The 350 Legend is a reincarnated 35 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge. Remington’s model 8 (Browning design) came out a year behind the Winchester. You can find pictures of model 8 Remington’s that used box magazines that look like AK-47 magazines. When I hear the words new when it comes to cartridges for firearms I seldom find new is the correct term. It is more correct to say improved.😂😅🤣
Love your channel Ron, always great info. My savage model 1920 in 300 sav is one of my favorite backcountry packing rifles. Hand load and it knocks all my deer down with ease, just picked-up another model 1920 in 250-3000 and can't wait to see how that takes critters down.. Cheers from 🇨🇦
That makes 2 of us I have 7 savage 99's and I have only shot one a lot just got my 250-3000 up and brass reloaded can't wait
Ron, I love your videos! I love how you brought the 6.5 Creedmore back to the .250! Keep it up, I appreciate it.
.300 Savage approximated the then current .30-06 velocity back in 1920 close enough to be interesting to about everybody that liked .30-06 for range and power and gave it to everybody in a lever action rifle. And another consideration was the .300 Savage pushes bullets at speeds that allow low tech cup and core bullets to hold together fairly well. ANY cartridge that does that gets a big thumbs up from me. While at its very best as a deer cartridge, it can do the job on bigger stuff at intelligent ranges too. If a modern .30-06 is a 400 yard gun, and a .308 a 300 yard gun, then a .300 Savage is easily a 200 yard gun anytime anywhere. That's a real deal for most real world hunting.
I honestly never thought about jacketed bullet construction in the early 1900s. That’s a legitimate point that could have been an issue. Is this speculation or is it something you have any resources/citations for? In any case it was probably some sort of factor even if just for lower end manufacture. I’m just getting really curious now!!!
Take care
@@danielcurtis1434 Modern controlled expansion type bullets were only a few years before WWII. CoreLokt pretty much stole the show for decades. All else being equal, a .300 Savage firing an identical bullet as .30-06, stands to exhibit slower expansion on impact simply due to lower velocity and resulting kinetic energy working on the bullet. At really close range this can mean the difference between fragmentation and shallow penetration and a bullet holding together and penetrating to a proper depth while still expanding a reasonable amount at the same time. Its pretty much a balancing act of physics. But it is conceivable that there were many times that a .300 Savage terminally out performed .30-06 or ..300 H&H simply because the bullets weren't driven to destruction on a 47 yard shot. Even in 2022 the science of terminal ballistics, while better known aren't universally known and understood outside of laboratory settings. It is pretty deep science with a lot of variables. Edit: Not speculation on my part. As for specific citations I can't toss one out. I've been studying so many articles on bullet performance for so many years that they all run together at this date. But the stuff I learned from is all over the internet and hiding in the magazine articles I read over the last 40 or more years.
Winchester offered a lever gun in .30-06 before the .300 Savage came out.
You are correct, that with 150gr. bullets, the .300 Savage matched the velocity of the .30-06 _at that time._ (1920) and did it in a _short action_ rifle that was much lighter and handier to carry than the Winchester Model 1895, and didn't have a protruding box magazine.
The combination was a brilliant offering and the Model 99 lasted in production long after the Model 1895 was discontinued.
A Model 99 in .300 Savage is, by far, my favorite _hunting rifle._
@@danielcurtis1434 You can check many sources on the history of bullet and cartridge design (Barnes' "Cartridges of the World" is an excellent one) It is not speculation.
Propellant (powder) and bullet design in 1920 were such that anything more potent than a .30-06 (and there were few such cartridges) would have problems with bullet disintegration. The .300 H&H (AKA "Hollands Super .30"), at the time, barely exceeded the velocity of the .30-06. Propellant powders of the time simply couldn't make use of the additional case capacity. With modern powders, the .30-06 can easily exceed the velocity of the .300 H&H in 1920. Of, course, with modern powders the .300 H&H can exceed anything in the .30-06. And even the shorter .300 Winchester Magnum can exceed the .300 H&H.
As propellant technology improved (mostly during and after WW2) so did bullet technology, and only in relatively recent years do we have bullets that can be used at all velocity levels within the range or cartridges available in a given bore size.
Remington Core Lokt came out in 1939. Nosler partition bullets were one of the first specifically developed to handle higher velocities, they came out in 1948. Weatherby, synonymous with high velocity cartridges, didn't even exist until 1945 and really didn't get going until the early-mid 50s. Which bullets did their proprietary cartridges use? Nosler Partition.
It is no coincidence that the "belted magnum" trend of the 1950s and 60s followed closely behind.
Propellent and bullet technology is still improving, and so are the cartridges being offered.
@@garyK.45ACP the thing is they had solid brass bullets since at least 1898. So even if what you say about bullet technology is true, they had a foolproof solution the whole time.
So glad you touched upon this round Ron. Thank you. Not an owner, but I've always been enamored of the 250/3000, 300 Savage, and the gun they were made for. Hoping you can borrow a prime example and give us a Savage M99 episode one day.
You finally got around to it. Best real world cartridge for any North American game short of big bears. Not my choice for elk/moose, but it was always my backup rifle on those hunts. I wouldn't skip a moose or elk hunt if I only had a .300 Savage rifle. I began using it in the early 60s as a teenager and it has never been replaced despite many, many other rifles I own.
My favorite all time hunting rifle is a 1951 vintage Savage 99 in .300 Savage. I also have a Remington Model 81, both handed down from my grandfather. The Remington is a bit too heavy and not as slim and trim to carry, but I won't sell it.
And to top it off...one of my favorite "smaller bore" cartridges is the .250 Savage. I would choose the .250 any day of the week over the .243 or 6mm Remington.
I have two Savage 99s, one in .300 and one in .250. The .300 hits hard and is very accurate even over iron sights and despite being a take down model made in 1921. Have not shot the .250 yet as I cannot find ammo and it was recently inherited and had been my great grandfather’s. Hopefully I can find some ammo soon and try it out also.
Thanks for giving some love to this still very good and not the least bit obsolete round.
I had a friend who owned a 99 in 300 Savage. He let me use it for hunting for a few years and man I really liked that rifle and cartridge. It was accurate too, unlike my old 30-30 it would easily print 1 to 1 1/2" groups while my 30-30 was only able to do 2 1/2" groups.
Very under appreciated round! Super low recoil and very effective deer round. First gun used by many in our family until ammo so hard to find.
@ Farmer Ted. 300 Savage reloads extremely well. Any decent .308 150 grain bullet and any one of a half dozen medium burn speed rifle powders will work.( IMR 4895 is one of the very best.) And if you have to make brass, it can be done with .308 cases easier than you would believe. Keep that rifle usable. Edit: This cartridge is not powder hungry. About 8 boxes of ammo for a pound of powder is typical. So a lot of hunting and some practice for your investment.
@@johnnorman7708 I can attest to the similarity between the .300 Savage and .308 brass. I had a BLR 81' rifle in .308 and our guide used a Model 99 in .300 Savage. While sighting in my rifle, one of the spent cartridges refused to eject. When I finally got the bugger out, I saw it was one of the guide's .300 Savages cartridges I had accidentally fired in my .308. I freaked out when i realized what happened but the rifle was OK and the cartridge worked fine except for the ejection. The interesting thing was how little the brass had changed when fire forming in the .308 chamber. That's how similar they are.
Read a strange comment on one of those forums a couple years back where someone recalled his grandfather turning his .300 Savage in for the newer(back then) and more powerful 7mm magnum. He later regretted the choice exclaiming how the .300 Savage dropped the deer with just one shot! How do you figure that?
@@steelgila Having used both extensively, I will say at 300 yards or less the 300 savage is a perfect cartridge for deer out west where we as a family hunts and have never once seen a problem on a good shot. Some in our family push further than that and I feel the 7mm mag is better because of range error estimates and faster. As for me I’ve never felt a shot over 300 yards was necessary or warranted. I’ve moved on to a 6.5x55 because of the lack of ammunition for the 300 and I feel that 6.5 is a great middle ground between it and the 7mm some in the family use. That said all in our family started out on grandpa’s Remington in 300 savage and I don’t see it going anywhere soon.
@@steelgila .300 Savage is fast enough to deliver any advantage speed might have in quick knock downs. But that is a downright elusive factor, and it doesn't always prove itself to truly exist. I read an article years ago that offered up the opinion by experiment that they were getting faster knockdowns with reduced speed handloads by 200 fps in their 7x57 rifle than with full power loads. Go figure. He thought it had to do with the bullet spending more time inside the deer. Sounds like more guessing than science to me. There are some things that defy proving theory to be correct or incorrect.
Just love “classic cartridges. Truth be told - all the old time cartridges (because of advances in powders and projectiles) are better than ever! While I have enjoyed hunting with my pre-war Model 70 in ‘06, Remington 141 in 35 Rem, and my most modern cartridge, 270 wcf, - I have mostly hunted NYS with my ‘99 in 300 Savage F. It carries well, is extremely accurate, is a very effective round for whitetails, has mild recoil, is well designed, and enjoys the “cool factor” in such a high tech culture. Thanks for instructing us all on one of America’s all time greats.
The .250-3000 savage is the best idea anyone ever had simply because it went on to father the .22-250
Thanks for the presentation. I love my old Savage model 99 in 300 Savage. I make my brass out of 308 and load a 165 grain bullet. Works great for caribou.
Harvested a Whitetail this last fall with a 300 savage in a Remington model 81 worked fantastic!
This was a eye opener! Love the way you unfold all this history and make it easy and fun knowledge.
I’ve got a pair of Savage model 1920’s in 250 and 300 Savage. Very sleek and light rifles with minimal recoil and fabulous performance. Only bad thing about either cartridge is the difficulty in finding brass/ammo :)
The 1920 is an interesting rifle. I have yet to see one. Only read about it.
My grandfather's last deer was taken with a 300 Savage in a Remington 760. Bought it in 1954...and was still taking deer in the 1980's. Nice cartridge.
A friend of mine had a 300 Savage in 700 Remington he only shot his reloads , I was very impressed.
The spitzer bullets didn't appear from Mauser until around 1904, several years after the Spanish American War.
Interestingly enough, according to Chuck Hawks, it was actually first designed by the French in 1898. We lifted the Mauser rifle design from the Germans, but by 1904-1906, the Spitzer bullet was already being adopted by a number of countries.
Here I set in my small cabin,laptop on my old banged up wood desk, tugging at my long gray beard, staring off at the corner of the room, where my old,old,old Winchester 94 30WCF is propped up, cartridge belt nearby, saying to myself, I, and my rifle are old and antiquated, left behind on the trash heap of history.
I should have upgraded long ago, but kept putting it off.
Great stuff from Wyoming
LOL.. I love that comment. "The 300 Savage.... and friends."
In the interest of authenticity the original 30'06 (1906) load pushing a 150gr bullet was rated @ 2700 fps making the .300 Savage equal in performance when in hit the market (1920). It wasn't until 1925 that the 30'06 saw some improvement yet not in the fps category but in bullet weight (175gr boat tail) that at 2700fps obviously packed significant significantly more punch.
Hi Ron, that 300 savage gun is the one I shot my first deer. I was 13 or 14 years old. That gun is still in the family. It is a very good gun.
Thank you for the history on that 300 savage, I loved it.
Thanks. I have an old remington m 722 in 300 sav. Love the thing. Accurate as heck. I do not use it allot any more but it gets taken out every year for doe season. I dont wanna bang it around allot. Its in good shape. But it has accounted for many many deer. Wallhangers to doe. I reload for it. Up until 2 years ago i shot 100 gr sierra bullets in it. But for idk how many years it threw 150 grain corelocks. Im back to 150 game kings now. I inherited it from my dad. It aint going no where. And i hope my son dont get dumb when he gets it. I used to have a m99 in 243. Got rid of it like a dummy. Great video. Thanks again.
i would love to see you and Steve Rinella in a discussion about everything hunting and shooting.
Love the episode, Ron! 300 Savage out of the model 99 is what my family has always used (there are 5 of us that shoot them) for Minnesota whitetails (plus 1 Minnesota and 1 Canadian moose). 180 grain bullets are preferred where a 100-yard shot is very rare because the woods is so thick and the 150 grain has been known to occasionally deflect. My brother has been reloading old 300 brass but Hornady does sell new. I recently picked up some Barnes 130 grain TTSX to try using Leverevolution powder in the new brass. My nephew wants me to hunt pronghorn with him out West and I'm thinking about bringing the 99. New reloading manuals need updated load charts for the 300.
Love the 99.. I know I always love to hear you thoughts.. Thanks for all you do..
A Challenge for you Ron. This is right up your alley, this will tax all your experience, knowledge and reasoning....
List and examine the best of all these categories just in your opinion, Guns you just love, or regret getting rid of, or they are just plain the best to have. This could be a 10 part series. I'd love to hear it. Think about it.
1 cf lever action rifle
2 gun for varmints
3 gun for big game like elk, moose, grizz
4 side arm for grizz country just in case
5 gun for white tails
6 best rimfire rifle
7 hand gun for white tails,
8 best black powder rifle
9 any gun you want if $$ was no option.
10 most iconic gun in history.
The .300 Savage likely would have been our military round as it passed all Small Arms Trial tests but one. It was found that because of its short neck some bullets were receding back into the case under recoil during machine gun use. Winchester chose to change shoulder angle of .300 Savage and give neck a touch more length for better bullet tension so bullets wouldn't recede. When submitted for testing Winchester called it the .308 Winchester. The changes helped it pass the one test the .300 couldn't. It went on to become very popular with civilians as most military rounds do.
Correct! The .308 is not a "shortened .30-06" it is a slightly lengthened .300 Savage. Best cartridge ever made for 95% of North American hunting
Funny how everything goes full circle eventually. Never owned a .308 and never had any intention of owning one. Along comes the POF Revolution DI, a AR-15 chambered in.308. When you stop and consider how rare it is to shoot a thousand yards even at targets and the fact that I would never take an animal at even half that distance, it starts making a lot more sense. I've always thought the 6xc, itself a necked up 22-250, which is the .250-3000 Savage necked down, would be perfect for this platform.
Absolutely true. After WWII, The U. S. Army wanted a shorter .30 Cartridge to replace the ‘06, and the .300 Savage seemed to fit their needs. But testing showed that for use in automatic weapons the short case neck did not provide enough bullet support and stability. So the case was lengthened, becoming the 7.62 NATO, aka .308 Win. There is also a modest difference in the case shoulder angle. There is no question that the .300 Savage case is the parent of the 7.62/.308 case.
I really enjoy learning the history of all these cartridges. Thank you.
I always learn some thing when I watch your videos, Ron. Thank you for all you do.
I love this cartridge and the rifles chambered in them. Thanks for a wonderful video.
You’re right Ron.
It’s crazy that most modern rounds are built on an old case. But let’s not get into the 7.57/30-06 thing tonight. I don’t have enough beers in the fridge to go about this rounds history and its children.
Appreciate all your info man!
Both got lost in the wash for me, deer hunting with .35 Remington and .30-06, back in the day. One of my hunting buddies swore by the .300 Savage in the 70s. By that time, I had discovered 7 Rem Mag, and never looked back.
ALWAYS AN EXCELLENT VIDEO ! THANKS !
Love the savage 99 cool gun 👍👍 I was gonna mention the radial tire and savage connection
I'd like to see the 250 Savage make a comeback.
New to your channel, Ron. Great watching you! Nice to hear someone talk about the .250 Savage. My Dad bought a Model 99 EG with an aperture sight mounted almost on the stock, right above where the metal seats into the wood. This was in the early '50's. I was just starting to hunt a little on our ranch in South-Central Texas. I actually used a wildcat .219 caliber rifle, built with an 1895 (or so) 25/35 rolling block single shot action, and a .219 barrel. OK, I digress. In '59 he bought me a Savage Model 99 EG, and I've used it ever since, quite often. Best handling, shooting gun for deer I've come across, with 100 grain bullets. As you mentioned. Thanks so much for a great video!
THANKS RON !
Excellent presentation, now I know. Thank you
Great lever action in all calbers.
I have a Remington model 700 classic in 300 savage its my go to deer rifle. In the woods of Michigan's Upper Peninsula the 300 savage is a great round.
GREAT INFO PRESENTATION THANK YOU SIR
The T-65 was developed from the 300 Savage. The rim was taken from the 30-06 because it was proven in machine gun extraction and the neck angle changed to feed better in automatic actions and the neck elongated slightly to give better purchase on the bullet and prevent bullet setback in high bolt feed thrust guns.
Head, the rim and head diameter of the 30-06, 300 Savage, and 308 Win. are all the same because the 300 Savage was built from the 30-06. The 300 Savage inspired what became the 308 Win. and was a part of the original testing and design, but that doesn't mean they took 300 Savage cases and stretched them to make the longer 308 cases. They might have (I wasn't there either) but it seems easier and more sensible to shorten 30-06 cases, which is what they reportedly did. Regardless, it's all in the family.
Ron this was a great video. My favorite rifle cartridges are as follows: 30-06, 308, 30-30, 223 and 22Lr. I have owned multiple rifles in each caliber over the years. I really love the lever action rifles.
Thanks for the comment Eric. I just bought my first rifle and was torn between.308 and Creedmore. Now having mild regrets about going the.308 route. In other videos, Ron seems to paint a clear picture of the .308 being over hyped / substandard. However, many people really like the ‘ol .308. And I see it’s number two for you! Any thoughts Pal? Can the .308 shoot distance, accurately without looking to much steam? (A lot of frontal surface area in the fat bullet)
@@alexpearson8481 That ol 308 is a pretty fat pig. Now that being said, it will surprise you. It can reach out and touch your target. I would suggest using Winchester Super X or Remington ammunition. Also,make sure you always use the same grain to train with as you are using to hunt with. That way you will know what your 308 can do and no surprises from changing ammo size(grain).
@@ericcardinal4788 thanks, appreciate that. Cheers from Canada.
Excellent informative video Ron.
I have a lever action Savage Model 1899 Gentleman’s Gun Takedown Model which came in a nice leather case with a .300 Savage barrel and a .410 shotgun barrel. Beautiful workmanship and a tack driver with the peep site. They made this Takedown Model for easy transport on a train, horse, etc..
I love .300 Savage in a 180gr Core-Lock. Sadly, the only thing out there is 150gr stuff from various manufacturers that I've had mixed results with. Usually, the brass likes to separate from the core and can make for some interesting tracking at times. Too bad the days of $15 boxes are long gone. These days, my local shops that can get the cartridge wants $60 flippin' dollars for 20 rounds...
60 bucks?!? That's insane! Luckily, .300 Savage brass is easy to make from .308 Win. brass. Of course, this presupposes one handloads, or at least has an acquaintance that does.
Cast bullets are your friend. I'd recommend the RCBS .30/180 flat nose. You should be able to push it at 2,000-2,100 fps, and inside 200 yards is a real killer that doesn't destroy too much meat.
Federal 180 grain is available in power shok (Blue Box). Good ammo. Shoots well in my Remington model 760 pump as well as my model 700 even though I handload a 150 grain Hornady interlock for the model 700. 44 grains of Leverevolution will push it over 2,700 fps with a 24 inch factory barrel. Fine Whitetail medicine in anyone's book. Moderate recoil.
In my part of Idaho the 6.5x55 was a very popular starter calibre.
Great information. Thanks
Science is a wonderful thing! Thank you for the casing lesson.
Thanks ron,
The first 8mm Mauser (7.92x57J) was semi-rimmed an had a .318 projectile. The common WW2 8mm Mauser was a rimless .323 round. BTW, I have Savage 99s in 22 Hi-Power, 250-3000 and 308W. All popular here in Aus. My 99c in 308 has an action about a quarter of an inch longer than the earlier ones. 99s were chambered in 243W, 7.08R-P, 284W and 308W, so pressure in lever actions was not an issue in a 100yo rifle.
Thank you.. very nice presentation
Had a friend who's grandad had one chambered in 300 Sav. We took it out one day and I fell in love.
Good on ya Ron for telling the history of progression !
Awesome history lesson. Thanks!!!
Very cool presentation. Thank you
Love any video that brings in the history of the .250-3000, a real classic and a shame it's almost disappeared. Had no idea about the connection to 6.5 creedmoor. I might be restoring a 250 at some point soon and if I can't save the barrel I think I know what I'll replace it with.
My Dad had a Savage 99 in both 250-3000 and 300 Savage. He preferred to hunt dear (Mule Deer) with his long octagon barreled Winchester 30-30. As a youngster (7-8 years old) he had me carry the 300 Savage with 2 cartridges... he claimed as a backup. It was really to get me used to carrying a "big rifle" instead of my little .22 Winchester 1906 pump. I took my 1st small whitetail forked horn with the Savage at 9 or 10 years old. It has always been my favorite.
Been hunting and shooting all my life and learn something new every day thanks for posting
Well said sir 👏
Good video, Ron.
I'm a bit late commenting, but
the Savage 99's did make the transition to 308 Winchester and other high-pressure cartridges so they could handle the pressure.
Around cool guns with cool history.
Thanks again for the video.
My dad has a Savage 99 in 300 Savage, made in 1946, he inherited from his uncle. It's a beautiful machine.
Fantastic. I always learn something…thanks for sharing
My dad killed his biggest buck with a model 99 .300sav at around 500yds with open sights. We have 2 model 99s in the family, my dad's 300sav and my brother's 308win. The 99 Savage is a great rifle for what it's worth.
Thanks Ron for the history lesson. You are a smart guy!
Crazy how the more things change the more they remain the same.
I shoot both cartridges, peas in a pod. Both applicable for same range of game.
Love my .300 savage. It's kept the freezer stocked with venison, black bear and a couple of feral texas hogs.
That was a great video the way you say it is amazing and anybody can make sense of it no matter how dumb I'm not insinuating I'm stupid I'm saying you're well-spoken thanks Ron
Thanks Ron. Learned something. Always appreciate the history of good old cartridges.
I really enjoy hearing someone tell the tale of the 300, and Ron does it as good or better than anyone. My grandfather used the 300 in his 99 most of his adult life, all the way in to his late 70’s, to take deer and moose all over Cape Breton Island, where my family is from. He never placed the scope on his, but it has the “tilt-off” rings with a Weaver K4. He strictly used iron sights and routinely took shots out to about 200 yards. The cartridge itself has more legs than that, but on Cape Breton Island there really aren’t shots beyond 200ish. I now have that 99. The wood and steel are still beautiful and it has the sleek schnabel fore stock and 24” barrel. Great memories of my grandfather, and a family heirloom. I load for it from 308 cases with 150, 168 and 180 grain bullets. My favorite, and seemingly the rifles’ is the 168. Thx Ron for the great storytelling about this classic old cartridge that I still find quite useful.
Has anyone ever done a "family tree" presentation of cartridges?
including, or not including, wildcats?
@@aethertech including. but I'll take excluding too.
Excellent story and info Uncle Ron
Cheers
Rob
Many thanks!
An interesting note to this, some later models of the 99 were chambered for .243 Winchester, .308 Winchester and .358 Winchester. Thanks for the informative video.
The first large rifle I ever saw shot was a 300 Savage. My older cousin got it out to impress us younger guys. A few years later a different cousin got a .270. We went out to shoot jack rabbits on a winter field. He hit two running rabbits in a row, (Years later he confessed to the fact that it was pure luck and he could never do that again). I bought the .270 when I came of age. No regrets.
I have read that the extreme shoulder angle on the .300 was believed to have caused failure to eject in some tests in full auto runs where the reciever gets very hot. I can see how that might occur whereas the moderate angle on the .308 allows for the brass to retract from expansion a bit more efficiently when hot.
No matter to me. I love the .300 more than any other cartridge. I reload with 165gr boattails over 39.5grns 4064. At the bench at 100 yds the holes mostly touch with open sights (corrected by a peep hole taped to my glasses). Couldn't be happier.
I have an m-99 made in 1937, and it is the most intuitive rifle I have ever owned. Points better than any other rifle, with the iron sights almost seeking the eye rather than the other way around. It comes to the shoulder naturally and when aiming, I don't feel the rifle at all because it is so well balanced. Very well made and the features that made it ahead of its time are still valid. It's a timeless masterpiece that very few guns can emulate.
Small fact correction: as far as anyone knows, the Spanish were shooting the 175 gr RN 7x57 military load at us in the war. I don't think any spitzer loads existed yet. The new German 154 gr spitzer 8x57 load (Spitzgeschoss) came out in 1905, and inspired the change from 30-03 220 gr RN (surplus Krag bullets- military ordnance people really were extra frugal back then) to 30-06 150 gr spitzer, with a slight neck change. I assume the word spitzer comes from the German word spitzgeschoss. Anyway, the Mauser trajectory and effective range was better than the Krag, and the stripper clip loading system was fast and effective. (I wouldn't be surprised at all if soldiers fumbled loose ammo under stress- hard to avoid sometimes). I think (key word) 7x57 139 gr spitzer loads came out around 1908. That would make sense, given the German and US switch in 1905 and 1906. I don't have my reference books with me right now to confirm. The Swedes did not switch until the 1930's, interestingly.
Anyway, great how u linked the 6.5 needs more to the 250 Savage. The 300 has always seemed to me to be a 250 yard gun. It seems slightly faster with the newer powders. Certainly, 2-3 generations of hunters made good use of it. I have and love a 99 in 308. Would like to find one in 300 so i could compare them. Only about a thimbleful of difference with 150 or 165 gr bullets, i am sure. Some source material indicates that the Winchester and military design team started with a 300 Savage cartridge and studied the ballistics, since it was the size they wanted. It was smart to design a new cartridge. Even if they had just raised the pressure in the 300 Savage to achieve desired velocity, they would have had to make dimensional changes in order to prevent it from chambering in Savage rifles. So, as you pointed out, they did the smart thing, lengthened the neck a little, gave it some taper for reliable feeding in semiautos and machine guns, and raised the pressure. Interestingly, the commercial debut of the 308 Win was in 1952, 5 years before the 7.62x51 was made a NATO standard with the M14. Both the cartridge and the rifle were ramrodded through by Col. Rene Studler, over the FAL and a 7mm cartridge and the promising 280 British and their EM-2 bullpup, but that is another story......
My brother has our dad’s Remington bolt action in 300 savage, he bought in 1948 , he bought a model 100 in 308 ,in 1970 ,I got that. Thanks Ron, I really like story time with uncle Ron, , but hey my son and my nephews remember me reading Death In The Tall Grass and Ed Zern , Jack O’Conner etc after supper in deer camp. And when I’m around my nephews,it’s tell us a story uncle Henry, story telling is a good thing Ron, that’s why I’m subscribing to your other channel/podcast.
Thanks Henry.
Thank you for doing this!
I have my grandfather's Model 99 Savage in .300 Savage that he bought new in 1940. He used it to take whitetail, elk & the occasional black bear.
I look forward to returning it to the woods & putting some meat on the table.
I have a Savage 99 in 300 Savage too. I bought it new in 1972 with my summer earnings when I was 13 years old. I love the gun. I don't think there was ever a better built lever action. The biggest problem now is finding ammo for it.
I think you are correct about the older 1899 rifle Possibly having weaker steel Because in 1956 that would be the 1st year the 308 was Chambered in the model 99 Savage, I have a 1950 model 99 in 300 Savage and absolutely love it, it's in great condition and a joy to shoot and hunt with easy and carry and well balanced.
Set up with marbles tang peep sight, no scope (not drilled for a scope mount)
Great history lesson.
Glad you enjoyed it
The .30-'06 and other cartridges with the same head dimensions like it, including the 1892 7x57mm Mauser, were all based on the 1888 7.9x57mm German Military Commission cartridge. Even the 1889 7.65x54mm Mauser round designed by Paul Mauser for Belgium beat the 7x57mm out of the gate by 3 years.
Just did some ballistics checking on the .300 Savage Hornady Superformance loads. Not even sure if these are currently available or not with the ammo crisis. However these loads were right in the performance range of .30-06 military M2 ball performance. So even the Century old .300 Savage that approximated .30-06 in1920 can now EQUAL what .30-06 fired from 1903 Springfields and M1 Garands was doing in the late 1930s
The new formulations of powders are taking cartridges to literally the next level. One step up.
Yes, new temp insensitive, cooler burning powders are increasing muzzle velocity in older cartridges. And the new, efficient, higher B.C. bullets are preserving that additional velocity and energy farther down stream! Win win.
That’s Right what goes around comes around, reinventing a cartridge that was introduced over a hundred years ago. When the 30 Tc came out what 20 years ago, I said that’s 300 Savage. Amazing! 👍
30 TC released 2007, largely ignored ever since. Will be best known as the parent case of the 6.5 CM.
I had a Remington 760 chambered in 300 Savage for about a year. I really love that rifle but the reason I sold it was the 300 Savage cartridge had about the same if not less power than my 30-06, with just about the same amount of recoil. However a box of ammunition was almost double the price of a box of 30-06, since I'm not a reloader I just didn't see the payoff and owning that round.
As I understand it, Saami specs are for chamber sizes. You need a little room for it to feed reliably so the cartridges are a few thousandths smaller.
Yes, SAAMI specifies dimensions of both cartridge and chamber with cartridge body tolerance allowed -.008", I believe, and chamber tolerances +.002" on diameters and +.015" on lengths. Extremes at both lead to a rather roomy fit.