Mystery Deer Cartridge is Dying
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Welcome to the RSO Podcast! In this episode, I read an article I wrote about an amazing pronghorn hunt I went on in Colorado.
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. 
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I have been hunting with the 257 Roberts for years. The performance of this cartridge is outstanding .
.257 Roberts paired with a 35 Whelen would be a great combo for North America. They don't have the razzle dazzle of today's sexy cartridges. All they have going for them is that they work.
Could eliminate most all cartridges and use a 45-70 for everything, just fill it with a light bullet and Trail Boss. Or crank it up to 500 grain T-Rex toppling loads. Well, it might be a tad overkill for varmints.
While I'm not a lover of them or have any interest in building them myself, an AR-15 in .223, 6.5 grendel or 6.8 spc, and .450 bushmaster literally just about handles it all in a "one gun" setup. No, you cannot just swap barrels and mags and go, but I completely understand the intrigue to running a platform like this.
@@bryantitus6634 AR 500 from Big Horn Armory? haha
@@exothermal.sprocket isn't the ar500 built on a ar10 chassis? I know it's not a standard AR-15. The ones I mentioned are standard AR-15 setups. For the cost of an ar500 by itself you could own all the other setups, and maybe even optics too.
I just researched it, and the ar500 is $1,999. There are some standard chambering ar-15s well into that range. But building a relatively high end AR-15 in 5.56, 6.5 grendel, and .450 isn't going to be all that much more expensive, if at all, than buying a single bighorn armory ar500 that likely you'd still have the itch to modify to a certain degree as well.
The ar500 is awesome. Not gonna lie. But two boxes of ammo alone will get you half way to a .450 bushmaster complete upper. It's a very expensive gun to shoot period, and then in an AR setup..... Yikes.
Ruger made their M77 in .257 Roberts for a few years , my Uncle purchased one , installed a Timney trigger and a 4-12x Burris Scope and now swears by it ! Uses it for everything from Elk to Coyotes .
the 257 Roberts. I have one in a 1950's Remington 722 deluxe. i love it and it is my go to rifle. Using 100 grn TTSX projectiles it is devastating on deer ,pigs etc. The 25.06 is more powerful but ask the deer if they noticed the difference.
I have my grandfather's Remington 722 in 257 Bob and reload for it exclusively. Iirc Ruger still chambers rifles in it. Don't quote me though...
I inherited the same rifle from my dad. I’m having fun with it. I spent some money on a new bolt etc but such a good gun.
One of the most knowledgeable hunters I have ever known, thought the 257 Roberts was one of the best cartridges of all time.
Flat shooting and low recoil. I don't know about the best, but it would be sweet for whitetail mule deer. Elk? You better be good at placement with the right bullet.
@@sylviajones3355 I knew this guy when I lived in New Mexico. He hunted deer and antelope, I don't think he went elk hunting.
@@chriscosby2459 wasn’t the .257 Roberts developed by a New Mexico native?
@Lazy Way Yes I like gunblue, especially about handloading ammo.
It was originally supposed to be a standard action with a 3" overall length... more powder. This put it just behind a 25-06, which is why Remington and SAAMI hamstrung it by giving it a docile chamber pressure and classifying it as a short action. The BOB wasn't the only rifle using 'old' mauser actions at the time... wink!
Love my 257 Roberts. I have a 1981 Winchester Featherweight I wouldn't trade for anything. Absolutely love it. One of the best firearm, cartridge combos ever made. Shame so many have never experienced it. Thanks Ron.
I have the same one from 1982. My favorite!
I managed to find a 7600 last year in 257 Roberts (wanted it partly because it was my grandpa's caliber) and a classic PA deer rifle (grew up going to big woods camp with my dad). After shooting it all I can think is why this isn't more popular. It meets all the points of a wonderful east coast deer cartridge.
Central PA checking in, I have two 760s chambered in 30-06, and I agree 100%, it is definitely PA's deer rifle.
Beat the 250 Savage... But I still love my 300 Savage.
. 25-45 Sharp's is interesting. Fits AR platforms. Functions through stanag mags. Only barrel change needed. Matches 250 Sav with light bullets.
My 257AI with 85gr Barnes for all my deer and antelope hunting and 70 gr Nosler ballistic tip for rock chucks and prairie dogs. It’s a real tack driver. And very little recoil. Great caliber
Ron, thanks for the video. The .257 Bob is near and dear to my heart. I have one, that my Grandpa built out of an 1891 7.65×53 Argentine Mauser. It's my absolute favorite deer rifle, and has put many Ozarks whitetails in the freezer.
You forgot the mighty .25ACP. When I feel that the raw man killing power of the 32 ACP is just too much for the tactical situation, I always fall back on good old 25.
Lets not get carried away, my wrists can't take that kind of blast. Personally, I carry a single shot, Crossman air pistol. You pump that up over 10 times, you can unleash some (almost) lethal power.
6.5 Bergmann-Bayard
the 303 necked down to 25 in a cheap surplus smle action was one of the most popular post war rifles here in Australia right up to the late sixties. there were companies selling converted rifles ready made and factory made ammo was readily available. i recently saw an ad for currently produced factory ammo. the 303\25 has similar case capacity to the roberts but was never loaded as hot due to the rear locking smle action.
It has to be the 257 Roberts. My first hunting rifle is my 257 Roberts that has been passed down through the family. I hope I get to pass it down the family one day as well.
I'm up for adoption...
Acquiring a rifle in this caliber has been on my bucket list for a long time...despite the ease of getting 243 ammo, I'm committed to handloading for this little jewel. Now I just need to find one! Great show Ron, stellar as always!
I have one of the Cabla's 50th Anniversary Model 70 Winchester Rifles in .257 Roberts. I have used it very little, but the two whitetails I shot with it did not move a muscle, except to fall straight down. 117 grain Plus P rounds did the job as good as any other larger caliber deer rifles I own. And, there is hardly any recoil. That particular Model 70 rifle is a shooter and has one of the prettiest super grade walnut stocks you have ever seen. Great rifle and cartridge combination.
The .257 doesn't get the respect it deserves, and that is a shame.
Don't forget about the 25-45 Sharps as one of the "newest" quarter bores on the market! Started as the 257-223 wildcat for years and was SAAMI accepted around 2015-2016. The SAAMI approved load is unfortunately in the lower levels of the cartridge's potential, but it still faithfully replicates the performance of the 250 Savage with the same 87gr Hotcor SP bullet pushed to approximately 3,000 FPS out of a 20" and 22" barrel. My personal favorite load for the 25-45 for general purpose use and deer is a 100 grain Nosler BT Hunting bullet over 25.8 grains of Accurate 2200 powder and backed by a CCI #450 Magnum Small Rifle Primer. Velocities average 2,700 FPS in 18" and 20" barrels and I have used the round to great effect on deer. The best part is it places the performance of a "modern" loading for the 250 Savage inside of an AR-15, "micro" action bolt gun, or similar sized auto-loading action otherwise designed for the .223/5.56 with the swap of a barrel. It's a fun cartridge to load and just as fun to shoot and hunt with. Honestly overlooked many times because it is not "exotic" enough.
Interesting. I've completely ignored it because, well, I don't enjoy hunting with ARs much and if I'm running a bolt, lever, or single-shot, why handicap myself with a slower, weaker set up? But I can see why AR shooters might like it or micro-bolt runners, although I'd still run the 6 ARC or 6.5 Grendel. And were I really serious about deer and hogs with an AR, I'd look hard at the 30 AR Rem., Lots of options.
Ehh, it's very nice in my Savage short action. Lots of room to load long COAL.
Yep. Got it in rifle and pistol uppers.
Be nice if 25-45 Sharps was a common offering
@@FISHUNTREECOUNTRY if you can hand load or order a lot of factory ammo at once, it’s a great cartridge. Hand loading is a breeze for the cartridge.
My best friend and hunting buddy hunts with a 257 Roberts and I hunt with a 25-06. Old dudes rule. Strangely, we both own 444 Marlins and Thompson Center Encores from the original "tight" tolerance machining. We both shoot black powder as well. Hard to find friends like that.
I've got a 257 bob, a 250 Savage and a 257wby, I'm 57 and all the young uns think I'm crazy for not using "the big magnum"!
I always reply, "you don't need a big magnum if you know how to hunt"!
@@Drivapete Correct, I'll be 66 this year and I prefer precision.
@@Drivapete that .257 wby is as big a magnum as anyone could ever need in north American (short of targeting big bears). It's a round that would benefit from a heavier more modern projectile that they don't really produce in .257 cal yet.
It would run 130-140gr boat tail bullets like it was made for it should they come out.
My 25/06 bull barrel Encore is pretty hard to beat in my estimation. It's all about shot placement and delivering a bullet with maximum shock to vital organs in your quarry with great speed and consistency. My buddy loves his 257 Roberts and I haven't had the chance to take his to the range or field. I own a lot of varying sizes/loads of 25/06. I'm afraid I would like the 257 too much and have to spend even more money. I'll just borrow his and keep mine. Love the discussion, thanks Ron you hit it out of the park again.
@@bryantitus6634 I think theres a 135gr Berger, it requires a 1:7 or 1:8 twist rate, which to my knowledge is unavailable in factory rifles. I have no interest in Berger bullets anymore, I'm 100% Barnes bullets biggest fan. For me they simply work.
I have a Kimber Hunter in .257 Roberts. I stock piled a bunch of ammo when I first got it. Glad I did, hard to find ammo for it now and when you do it's expensive. That will further push the cartridge into obscurity. I have 90 rounds of Federal 120gr NP's They are my Fav load. I also have some Cor-Loks, SST's & Accubonds.
Kinda crazy how fickle people are when they dump a great cartridge in favor of a new one that pushes a bullet 100 or so feet per second faster.
No kidding, I've got a 257 why that I absolutely love. I've shot scads of deer and elk with no problem.
However, the 25-06 is only approximately 2 to 300 fps slower and burns waaay less than the 75.5 gr of powder the 257 wby does, has brass waaay cheaper and more available ammo waaay cheaper!
What the hell was I thinking!
@@Drivapete Bullet fast = good probably
I think a lot of it is marketing hype. Shooters have been conditioned to believe that faster is always better, and will this jump in a 100 fps or so increase. Pffft. Stand aside, 38-55 coming through
@@Drivapete Exactly. That is why i did not buy a 257 Wby years ago when a gunsmith friend had one for sale. I knew i would mostly be loading it to 25-06 levels, in mote expensive brass. Granted, i would probably only need 100 cases, but i wasn't sure what i would do with it anyway. Passed. And i still have not gotten a 25-06
It's a world shattering thing when you realise barrel life is measured in seconds once you do the math.
I’ll never live long enough to shoot that barrel out. I don’t throw 100’s of rounds down range just so I can say I burned a barrel out. Lol. I’m a hunter not a match shooter.
Thank you for making me think of this and wanting to do the math now.
It's actually pretty cool to think about when you put it like that.
Wow that's depressing 😕
Say you have a 24" barrel and whatever cartridge you shoot is moving at 3000 fps. That would take 1500 shots for bullets to move through your barrel for just one second! So really a lot of barrels can only handle one to two seconds of moving bullet!
@@dougkahler7152 always handy to have a hunting rifle you don't take to the range. I've done 3 barrels in the last 12 months on my 7 rem mag paper puncher.
That was my grand dad's pet caliber, he had this Mauser chambered for it, and boy was he deadly accurate! He used to reload, and his loads would kick way more than commercial loads!!!!
Thanks Ron , did not know a lot of the history on the 25 caliber cartridges ! That’s probably why they never made a 25 08 , because of the Roberts .
.25 Souper. Yes, it is spelled right. It is still a wildcat but who knows?
@@thomasreilly4345 Yes , that cartridge is in P.O.Ackleys. Handbook for shooters & Handloaders . I’m wondering why there is not a .25 credmore with say a 1 in 8 twist ? The.25 bore has been neglected somewhat after the 2506 by the manufacturers because it is hard to beat . I love my 2506 !…..
The .257 Roberts is a great cartridge, my grandfather loved it and hunted with it for years.
I have shot a 25-45 Sharps and I am following the 25 creedmoor and the Blackjack bullets. These are a couple of modern 25 caliber examples that are of more recent origin that have tried to break out of the wildcat category.
I had a Winchester 70 featherlight for awhile in the Roberts.I wasn't a big fan of the rifle,but I did love the Roberts.I really liked what a 120 gr partition could do.Like an idiot,I traded the rifle instead of changing the things I didn't like about it.My brother also had and still has,a Ruger M77 in the Roberts,and that is a great little rifle.I would like to have another one,because I think they are about ideal for deer,which is most of my hunting now.Itd be a shame to see this cartridge disappear,but it never was loaded to it's full potential,which is what I think is the true reason for it's demise.Great video,keep up the good work.
Ron, your boyish enthusiasm and unquestionably genuine character, combined with generations of firearms & hunting knowledge, should be recognized as a national treasure. You stood on the shoulders of giants to not only push the industry forward, but to ensure future generations appreciate whom and what came before. I wasn't alive during the hey-day of Jack O'Connor and his contemporaries, but I sincerely believe you are carrying on their great work into the 21st century. Thank you.
The .257 Roberts really was a heck of a cartridge when loaded to the +P level. Still is. Probably is more balanced than either .250 Savage or .25-06 for a wide range of applications. I could see it as practical for coyotes all the way up to the annual elk when using good performing bullets for the task at hand.
I’m not sure it’s more balanced than my 25-06 that has bullets designed for fox all the way to pronghorn and will reach out touch a prong from a long way, but my oldest hunting friend uses one and it gets the job done quite well. I wouldn’t kick either one out of my gun safe for sucking. LOL!!!!
@@patriotichunter6434 When I used the word "balanced" I was thinking that it wasn't extremely over gunning or under gunning on the extreme ends of its application. It does a workman's job. In an EDC ranchers or farmers rifle, it could do a real job on varmints and big game all in the same week.
@@johnnorman7708 the buddy I spoke of owns a family ranch of pretty good size passed down 4 generations and that’s exactly what he uses his Roberts for. He can take a coyote out to about 300 yards easily. My 25-06 is a little faster and I have shot a yote on his place at 400 yards that was stalking lambs, and I even took a pronghorn at 575 yards. That shot was made when I was in my 30s and it was perfect conditions, evening of last day for our hunt and the ground was so flat I couldn’t get closer. Put them on Buffalo sticks and made an amazing shot. Of course now I wouldn’t even attempt that with my eyes and body aging. The Roberts and 25-06 are really comparable with recoil and both are accurate. We learned to hand load together 20 years ago from another older friend and he now has a badass round that’s good for deer, pigs and varmits. Coyotes fold like a clean shirt! LOL! I have about 17 different calibers but never owned a Roberts and after I learned reloading and ballistics I always wondered why. It’s a versatile cartridge for certain. I guess it’s because my 25-06 is also very versatile and low recoil.
@@patriotichunter6434 loaded to +p levels, which basically every bolt gun made in it with more modern higher quality metals can handle, it is right on the heels of the 25-06 performance wise.
The Hornady superformance 117gr sst in .257 +p is rated at 2945 fps.
The Hornady interlock 117gr in the 25-06 is rated at 2990 fps. I get that the superformance is an 'extra-hot' load but it shows the gap as it could be.
In most load data, the 257 is about 100-150 fps behind the 25-06 with any given bullet weight. Both are sweet calibers. Im in no way knocking the 25-06. It will be far more destructive on the light weight end of the game/bullet scale, but you don't shoot 25 cal to save pelts either.
Another caveat. Many standard rifles carry 22" barrels. A 22" barreled 25-06 carries nearly zero ballistic advantage over a 24" barreled 257 Roberts. The 25-06 loses substantial velocity as barrel length decrease and muzzle blast dramatically increases as well, not that any non-magnum in a 22" barrel is an issue but it's a thing. And if you handload, a 25-06 burns a good bit more powder for that relatively small ballistic gain. Certain rifles in 25-06 can utilize the new heavyweight boat tails in the 130-135gr range where at that point, the .257 won't keep up and potentially won't stabilize them.
Same general comparison as the .308 vs 30-06 but being made in .25 cal.
@@bryantitus6634 but in 25-06 the 117gr sst SF by hornady supposedly you can get 3100 FPS. I haven’t tested it and I doubt either caliber gets what hornady shows on their chart. I know in 270 win the SF 130 gr sst is about 70 FPS slower than advertised. BUT in a 25-06 I can hand load a 100gr ballistic tip at around 3300-3350 for varmits and even deer, and a 120 grain partition for deer, antelope and get 3000-3100 and be moa or better in both. I have a load right now avg 3040 for deer and pronghorn and it’s tack driver. Again I’m not knocking the 257 Roberts but in a world where 200-300 FPS matter the 25-06 is just a little better. You would be pushing hard to get a 120 gr partition in a 257 Roberts to 2800 FPS. That being said a deer would never know the difference and if I had a Roberts caliber I would not hesitate to hunt with it. I guaranteed that caliber has killed a bunch of game since it came out.
The 257 Roberts is the cartridge and the 257 Weatherby magnum is the cartridge that smoked it 10 years later when it was introduced by none other then Roy Weatherby. He stated the 257 Weatherby was his favorite of all his magnum cartridges. And dropped a Cape Buffalo with it too.
Right-o Jeff!
It'll never die at my house. I've got two of them and they have ushered more than a couple of people into the world of deer hunting.
I've got at least a half dozen standing offers to buy them when I get bored with them. Not gonna happen.
I knew it pretty quickly, but people are definitely missing out on a great deer cartridge. I love my kimber in 257-roberts. I'm hoping to make a Remington 700 in it soon
Yes do what u like. I love 6.5grendel. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I just shoot it and love it. Might want to look at reloading
@@justinlance4174 6.5 Grendel? Lol ok.
Ummm I’m not so sure, in Australia Ruger, Mossberg, Savage, Weatherby and others are selling rifles in 257 Robert’s. I know most are being long throated to shoot longer better bc bullets. They seem to move off the shelves pretty quickly. I don’t know if they are being dumped here, but aussies seem to like the caliber. 25.06 is another caliber that was nearly gone 30 years ago here, in the last 4/5 years it’s had a comeback with every manufacturer offering rifles in this caliber 👍😎
Good info on the 257roberts,,, couple things to add ,,, it was chambered in short and long actions ,, hand loaders could get a substantial amount more out of it by being able to seat bullets out farther in long actions,,, also chamber pressure was set low ,, hand loaders could improve on that as well , I have a Ruger mod 77 in long action loves nosler 115 gr partition seated out and a good dose of 4350
Love the history lesson Ron. You always teach me something.
I've read about that record book buck shot with a .25-20, many shots required as he tracked the wounded deer to its final end.
I am shooting my Bob at the range each weekend this winter. It is still very much alive on my reloading bench.
I never had one or shot one but I have friend been using his for 50 years since his grandad gave him the rifle as a Christmas gift when he was a kid. I’ve seen it kill a lot of deer and var it’s for 35 years. Good caliber with a cult following of sorts
Hey Ron,
could you please make a video about the 8x57IS?
It is still, after about 120 years, one of the most used hunting cartridge here in Europe.
And maybe you can compare 120 year old ballistics to modern ballistics. How did the cartridge improve over time?
Thanks a lot.
257 Roberts. I think 25 Creedmoor will actually go commercial soon (assuming manufacturers release some more modern bullet designs). Everyone that talks about them seems really pleased with them. I’d like one myself.
Hey, I actually figured it out before the end. Making me feel smart there Ron.
Correct me if Im wrong but technically I believe the Bob "should" be in an intermediate action like the Spanish '93 or Yugo Mauser. I expect that is at least part of the reason that manufacturers began giving it the cold shoulder after the introduction of the 243. Because no one wants to make an intermediate action, only a short or long. Actually all intermediate cartridges have been dying on the vine for decades including the 6mm Remington. It would be nice to see something in a 1/4 bore being offered again. It really has become something of a red headed step child. Thats ok, my 257 ain't going anywhere.
You can build a Bob on one of the early German Kar. 98 small ring actions which is an intermediate length action. I have a 7x57 built on one of those. You'll get the ability to seat the bullet further out taking advantage of case capacity and still clear the receiver opening for easy feeding and ejection. Also with the 98 Mauser action you can heat up the Bob and 7x57 somewhat, but don't get crazy with any small ring Mauser action. I have a Savage 99 250-3000 and I love it but I still want a Bob. If I wanted a screaming hot 25 I'd buy an '06 or a Weatherby.
257 caliber was put in the weatherby caliber niche that gave it the full range of bullets. If you reload this niche is the best one up to the 308 caliber. I love the the variety from light to heavy duty bullets that can stop anything from a prairie dog up to a moose. This is a nail driver, I have shot the tacks off my target at 100 yds. You have to load this down so you didn't blow blood clots all through a deer. the 1:10 twist will handle anything in my 722.
A 6.5x55 SE rifle with a 1-220mm (8.66”) OR a 1-9” twist will outperform the .257 Roberts as a hunting cartridge, with heavier maximum bullet weights, lower pressures and longer barrel life. Sako hunting rifles were actually made with 1-10” barrels until the advent of the Model 75. The .270 Winchester has the same advantages over the .256 Newton. Still fun to play around with different cartridges though, for those of us who reload! 🙂 Who wants to stay with the most common items on the shop shelf?
Seeing those old cartridge boxes makes me miss my grandfather.
I feel the same way. I have a lot of those old boxes. Some of dad and grandpa's hunting rifles and antlers. They were both gone before I got to know them. I can always take them with me though, every October, just by taking one of those old rifles.
The nostalgic part of me that daydreams about blued steel, walnut-stocked rifles chambered for the .222 Remington, or .257 Roberts, or maybe even a Winchester Model 71 in .348 Winchester is usually outvoted by the practical part of me that instead purchases a Remington Model 700 Mountain SS in 6.5 Creedmoor and puts a 3-9 Trijicon on it. ;-)
Thank You Ron 😊
I used a 257 Roberts on a couple of whitetail hunts as a youngster. Great deer harvester. My friend would not sell his rifle to me. I wound up using the 6.5x55 SE and still do but my "Scout" rifles are a 260 Rem. and a 6.5 Grendel. I really love 6.5 mm bullets whether it's really 6.5mm (257 Roberts) or 6.7mm (6.5x55 Swede or 6.5x39 Grendel). The SD & BC is far superior to larger popular calibers.
Another fun video Ron. I think I guessed it about halfway through. I've got a 250-3000 Savage 99 but it's the 14" inch twist version so allegedly it won't stabilize bullets weighing over 100 grains. I've got brass for a Roberts, but no rifle so it's on my list of classic cartridge wants.
Both the 250 Savage and the 257 Roberts, like the 7x57 Mauser and 300 Savage were originally hamstrung by relatively low maximum working pressures. Also the Savage, much like the original 244 (now 6mm) Remington was hurt by barrel twist rates not fast enough to stabilize the heavier bullets available in their respective calibers. Because there wasn't much difference between the Savage and the Roberts in their original loadings some critics referred to the Roberts as the 250 Improved.
As you stated, now with modern powders the performance of both can be significantly improved. Add modern bullets and they both deserve more respect as hunting cartridges. Of course a lot of other cartridges have been improved proportionally in the same way, so the Savage and the Roberts are never going to equal the 25-06 or the 257 Weatherby, but they will continue to hold their own in the field.
With a modern powder one of my Hornady reloading manuals shows 3000 fps for a 100 grain bullet out a 24 inch barreled Savage 99 with the 14" twist. That equaled the the Plus P load in the same manual for the 257 Roberts with the same 100 grain bullet out a 22" barreled Winchester Model 70 with a 9.5/1 twist. Ain't modern science and technology great?!
Both the Savage and the Roberts can really come into their own with medium or longer action bolt guns such as 95 or 98 Mausers, Winchester 70 or Ruger M77 which allows those longer, heavier, high B.C, higher sectional density bullets to be seated further out to efficiently use their maximum case capacity. I know that's a hand loaders game and with the current shortages of both factory ammo and reloading components it's going to be pretty tough for newbies to get into the game. On the positive side the Remington 100 grain CoreLokt 250 Savage at a factory alleged 2850 fps, which I was accumulating before the pandemic, consistently groups under one inch at 100 yards out of my 1956 Savage Model 99 with its original K-4 Weaver and I'm happy with that. If you newbies want to get into the fun to shoot, light kicking 25's I think guns and ammo will be easier to find for the Savage, but no matter what you choose, good luck to all. You won't regret it.
I have a K-98 in .300 Savage.
.257 roberts, i have never owned it but was always intrigued by it.
I dearly love my .25-06 Remington. I have taken deer at over 300yds . I have watched several of your videos that refer to the 7mm cartridges. I was wondering what ever happened to the 7mm STW . You just don't hear or see anything on it anymore.
Stw 86.0 grains of powder it’s by far a smoking 7 mm
I really enjoy your energy in your videos. Informative and entertaining.
The Gentleman's rifle the 257 Roberts. I will never give mine up. Thinking about having it smith to the A.I. Great Show.
Hi Ron if Adolf was German or Austrian I believe Niedner Arms Corporation is pronounced with a long "e" on the first syllable. If the spelling was Neidner then it would be pronounced with a long "i". I'm stretching back to my "sprechen sie deutsch" days form the early 90's. I just recently posted a video on my Mauser action 25-06 and in it I had some old reloads that my uncle likely made. I state in the video that that they are 50 to 60 years old. That was before I went and looked up the 1969 standardization year. So the 60 years would have fallen into the wildcat days and it could have been probable with all of his load development and testing that he did, but I feel it was closer to the 50 year mark. I can't recall when my father got the rifle from my uncle, but I'm assuming it was between 1970 - 72. Anyway, I couldn't guess the cartridge although I am familiar with it due to using the 257 Roberts brass in some of my 6mm Remington reloading. Thanks for the video, but now I'm melancholy due to another round fading away.
Well done Ron! This was an interesting video about a cartridge I have never shot but heard many senior shooters talk highly about.Thanks for the history on the .257 Roberts.
The 35 Remington is another dead cartridge that I will always have and hand load for. Grandpa may be old but he’s been getting it done longer with less than anyone shooting the latest and greatest.
At first I thought it would be the .280 remington ,until you said short action.a lot of people have no idea their is even .25 caliber firearms ,in existence .I was in rural kings gun barn ,asking for a bore brush for my 2506 and the youngins working there laughed and told me they had never heard of a .25 caliber firearm.all they know is 6.5 and 5.56 .
A few years ago, Winchester offered the .257 Roberts in the Model 70 Featherweight, and I snapped one up. It can do anything my 6mm Remington can do, and a little bit more.
25-45 Sharps is great in an AR platform. Depending on barrel length, one can achieve very near .250 Savage (250-3000) velocities with 87gr bullets. All you need is a barrel and set of dies. No noticeable increase in recoil, but considerably more smack on the steel/critters down range.
Great old round. Thank you for covering it.
Man, what a great cartridge. I have one in a Remington 7600 that I think Grice made in the 90s. With my handloads, it is amazingly accurate for a pump-action rifle. In my quarterbore collection, it is one of the best ones. Nobody can make a mistake selecting the ,257 Bob for any deer hunting.
Fantastic caliber the .257”!! Underrated everywhere.
The 257 Roberts, I currently own 3 rifles chambered in that great cartridge. Took my first and second deer with a BLR 81. Love it more than any other cartridge I hunt with.
I think for size, weight and most common range, the 6.8SPC is rapidly becoming a favorite for deer and hogs. In a bolt action, it's super lightweight, and excellent out to 500yds. For multi-use, including home defense, it's popular in Texas where you can take multiple hogs per day, and the AR-15 platform is perfect for it.
Was working Ron, I’ll catch this one tonight as I try to unwind from the day. Great stories with good information on these. Thanks again Ron for sharing your adventures and knowledge. 🎥👍💯
How about a 25 Nosler? If they made that cartridge with a fast twist rate so you can use longer heavier bullets, you will have a winner.
My go to is the 257 bob. I have one built by a friend of mine and given to me. Awesome caliber.
I have an old Ruger 77 in 257 Roberts. It is so fun to whitetail hunt with. Light recoil and just a pleasure to shoot. I take it out a couple of times a year. The 117 grain Hornady will do some damage. I will never get rid of it.
When you said rifles were manufactured before official Saami specs were released i immediately thought 22-250, but then I remembered the “only 15 cartridges chambered” requirement. I wouldn’t have guessed 257 Roberts. Nice format Ron!!!
Thank you for doing this. I know it is not the most popular out there, but as I mentioned on Patreon, I recently purchased a Ruger Mark 2 chambered in the .257 Roberts. This is very helpful.
Thanks for nudging me to cover the Roberts, Mr. Benson.
Ron, wonderfully fun video. Great hints in the game. I did guess it straight away, even though it's one of the few I've never had, but aways wanted. Recently started playing with a couple of 257 WBY. The Bob on steroids. Unfortunately the 25s are the illegitimate child at the family reunion. What no Covey, come on buddy.
Cheers, Jeff
Hey Ron, like your podcast, very interesting relating those stories from the past!
Thanks SJ
Mr. Spomer I love watching your videos. You are very knowledgeable about all things on guns. It would be a dream come true to go on a hunt with you
There are a handful of PRS shooters that shoot 25 Creedmoor as they call it and also 25 Dasher, which is the 6 mm Dasher necked up. They are shooting 130 to 135 grain bullets. Extremely long bullets with high bc.
I've been looking into a Ruger No1 in .257 Roberts. I'm a nostalgic kind of person and dig the older guns and cartridges. I'm also a "get closer" kind of hunter (from all my bowhunting) so a 200-300 yd effective range cartridge is more than plenty for me. I do love the 25-06 best though for deer hunting.
You'll love the Roberts. It is all business and very mild on the recoil. My 8 year old son took his first deer with the .257 Roberts. It's a classic. And, if you handload for it, you can really get it's full potential. There are some guns that I could part with but the Roberts is NOT one of them. I hope you get one.
I have a Remington Model 14 in .25 Remington.. Its a deer killer for sure.. Great little pump gun.. My DAD bought it for me, as my first deer rifle when I was 10, 46 years ago..
It's still my favorite deer cartridge and I use it quite often for coyotes. I must be getting old, I carry a 41 Magnum quite often and the 257 Roberts. I'm looking for a Kimber 84M in it also to complement my Ruger M77.
Ron could you do an episode on the 300 weatherby magnum and perhaps the 240 weatherby magnum and maybe suggested a different weatherby for me to add to my collection. I have things like;22Lr and22 Winchester automatic, 30-30, 30-06, 300 black out and of course 223\556. So anything that could fill in the gaps would be great. thanks for sharing your knowledge with all of us and I look forward to seeing more from you
I have hunted with a Ruger M77 chambered .250 Savage for almost 30 years. Evening taking a 325 aoudad, dropping him where he stood. Just recently picked up a custom barrel for my T/C Encore in .257 Roberts. Looking forward to this fall hunting season and seeing how well the "Bob" performs on whitetail in TX.
Love my little "Bob" ;)
The 25-06 and 257 Roberts are two of my favorite rounds. Add the 6mm Remington and 243 to round out my favorites.
I've been gathering brass for 6mm Remington along with 257-roberts brass when I can find either. Along with a 700 in 257-roberts I want to get one in 6mm Remington too
6mm remington is getting hard to find in Canada now. 6mm creedmore seems to have replaced it.
@@maddog3080 it seems to be getting hard to find here as well. I've never found a rifle in it as a matter of fact.
Still have my remington 700 classic in 257 Roberts, does well with 115 grain bt at 2800fps
I have a Ruger M77 MK II in . 257 Roberts. My Ruger is a long action. It kills deer as well as any larger caliber. I also have a Remington 700 Classic in .250 Savage and Ruger M77 MK II Stainless in .25-06. Yes, I love the . 25 caliber rifles. I have a Winchester M 70 featherweight in 6.5x55. Love old classic rounds.
The 257AI is still quite a popular chambering. Thanks for sharing!
No bragging rights for me this time though I had some good guesses. Still, the video was great fun and very informative. I love your mystery/trivia pieces. Now I need to go research the .256 Win Mag as I had never heard of it. Thanks, Ron.
Edit: OK, I am back after doing a little research. I can see why this cartridge did not make it because it just did not do as well what its peers could do. Still, it is an interesting cartridge and would be a fun shooter in a carbine or ranch rifle.
I built a custom rifle in 257 Roberts a few years back based on a Spanish Model 95 Mauser action. Given the strength of the action I could never load it to higher pressure levels. Despite that it was a very accurate and well balanced hunting rifle. I only killed one buck with it. It was a 150 yard crossing shot, and I hit it in the lungs. I sold that rifle and used the proceeds to for my next custom build, a 280 Remington on a 98 Mauser action.
Another 25 is the 25-45 sharps made for the AR platform (as far as I know it's literally just a 5.56 case necked up to 25 caliber)
The name was a play on words due to the manufacturer's name (sharps rifle co) the parent case was 5.56x45 and since it was just the same case necked to 25 it became the 25-45 to pay homage to the old cartridge naming convention like 30-30 or 45-70.
It was touted as the best possible hunting cartridge that could fit in the AR, but fell by the wayside fairly quickly (sharps still makes it, but to my knowledge no one is buying them anymore)
I’ve been reloading since 1970 , and the reason I don’t own any of the 257 s,or six mm Remington is case neck stretch was a pain in the rear compared to many other cartridges,,sold them all and never looked back.
Had it after the 2nd clue !!! I love the 250-3000 and the 257 Bob, though I don't have anything chambered for the 257....
I still love my Remington 700 bdl 25-06 though.
Other .25 caliber cartridges that immediately spring to mind for me are the .25 acp, .257 WBY and .25-45 sharps.
One of my mentors used a Winchester M54 in Roberts to take antelope and deer for many years.
One mistake I made years ago was not buying a Ruger #1 in Roberts at a relatively low price 🙄
It is still a fine cartridge that is suited for what is was designed to do.
I've been to Old Ephraim's grave many times. Beautiful country and really cool history. I believe his skull is still in the USU library on display
It's one cartridge I've never owned because the 25-06 is that and more...But I do love the nostalgia surrounding it.
I actually am considering building my first bolt action bull bore rifle in . 257 Roberts Ackley Improved for varmints and whitetails here in Pennsylvania. I still love my Remington model 7600 in 30-06. But for varmints I'd like to keep the damage to the pelt small.
Just did a couple hours of research into the 257 Roberts and looking for one to buy just the other day. Many videos of people hunting varmints to elk with it. On paper the .257 caliber seems to be the most versatile caliber, would love to see in depth tests
I have a 257 bob in a ruger m77 and LOVE it, many many deer coyotes and my first cow elk taken with it.
Thankyou Ron
Cheers
Rob
I had a pretty good idea it was gonna be a 25 caliber after the very first clue, and I guessed it by number 2, which is pretty exciting for me! I have always wanted one, it seems like a great cartridge.
Holy Primers! I got it RIGHT? My late father was a big fan of this cartridge and always said it was ahead of its time.
When I turned 10 in 1955, I got a job delivering the Sunday Oregonian in NE Oregon and made about $12 a month. The owner of the local hardware store sold me my first rifle, a .257 Roberts (Remington, I think.) on credit. $9.75 of that $12 went to make that payment. First buck that year.
How cool! Was that in the Wallowas? La Grande or Enterprise, perhaps? Spectacular country.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Enterprise. A few years later, I traded that rifle in for a .264 WM. Sadly, I sold that one after joining the military (probably needed beer money). I saw the guy I sold it to a couple of years ago and he did let me fondle the old .264 WM. :-)