@@Neveah-xm1rk okay but like during 11 Paradise when I'm like Odysseus was going to jump from the ledge I literally like sat there and I'm just like I was crying It was listening to it while I was doing laundry and I listened to a little wolf for the first time and I was like oh my God that's the best song in the entire world we'll be fine it's definitely on the bottom of my tier list mostly it's because it it made me cry and my one of my second favorite song is God games and then it's legendary I cannot put legendary on in the car because I'm literally like 12 years old in my family will be like why the hell are you listen to a song with the word tramp in it
For Penelope, She couldn’t do anything, the ancient greece had a “rule” for hospitality. The guests were sacred, so she was stuck with this rude and violents men for at last 15 years
To add onto this, she's not head of house, and that's why she couldn't kick them out. Since odysseus is alive, even if he's not there, he's still the head of house, and since the suitors were being terrible guests, the gods didn't rebuke him for killing all of them when he came home
Yeah, tons of reactors talk about it like she had a choice. She really would have had to marry somebody eventually. She knows that the kingdom needed a king, and she wouldn't be allowed to fill that role.
They actually didn't go to Ithaca until about the 16th or 17th year I think, at least in the Odyssey. They didn't go until Odysseus' apparent "death" spread around Greece and other areas. He was gone for 10 years for the trojan war and then some years after others returned they realised that Odysseus never made it back so they suspected he was dead and started going to Ithaca to try to court Penelope.
The awkward part is that the existence of different types of love is a BIG part of Greek culture, but in modern day we only think of love as romantic or familial. So if two characters who aren't blood related show any kind of affection, we immediately think they're potential romantic partners.
@@rachelyoung8401 yeah I understand but this is not just a “detail” about Athena. This is basically her identity, and the most famous statue of Athena is called Athena Parthenos which means Athena the Virgin. Athena, just like the goddesses Artemis and Hestia will be forever virgins.
"I hope he takes the puppy, but I feel like the puppy will die." Flashbacks to when Jorge said, "I want to see the dog in Legendary, and then I don't ever want to see that dog again."
Okay. I was reading through the comments. No one has mentioned this yet, but Odysseus was kept prisoner on Calypso's island and...there's a full translation of the Odyssey that explains this better. Sensitive content warning! Calypso basically forced Odysseus to sleep with her for 7 YEARS. And since Odysseus doesn't have any power, all he can do is try to escape it.
While true for the original text, I don’t think it’s what happened in Epic. Mostly based on a song from the next saga (Spoilers Below) In “Not Sorry For Loving You”, Odysseus has a line implying Calypso being a friend or at least some form of positive relationship (“I love you but not in the way that you want me to”). And the whole song in general is just like really weird if in the context of an abuser. I doubt Jorge gave a heartfelt and emotional song to a Calypso that did what she did in the original text
@@germesthegenie8574 Honestly I think that it’s up to your own personal interpretation until Jorge says it specifically. There is a cut song where Ody tells calypso that he’s ready to sleep with her and while she’s getting ready he’s trying to flee the island. Also just the lyric choices in love in paradise imply the power dynamic and also imply what happens. “You’re mine, all mine” idk calypso in general makes me feel gross
Keep in mind Epic is not an exact recreation of the story. So we don’t really know if it was that bad in Epic. He was kept there for 7 years and that part was bad but whether it is just as bad as the Odyssey is debatable. I guess it is just up to what you personally want to think unless Jorge mentioned it.
I feel it should be mentioned that Athena is a virgin goddess and her whole shtick is that she’s not into men at all, so no crushing, I think it’s more of a parental relationship where she realised her wrongs with Odysseus and tries to make it better with his son as a way to kinda reconnect?? Honestly it kinda depends on what animatics you see, they do have a strong impact on how you view things
If you want to see the canon visuals, I believe the livestream is still up on Jorge’s channel. (Not even for a video or anything. Just so you can get a better grasp on some things).
Quick run down- Telemachus is now 20ish. The suitors are getting upset that Penelope still hasn’t chosen one of them to take Odysseus’ place, resulting in the fight between Antinous and Telemachus, and Athena appearing. She heard him call for help. Next, well, yk, there’s no love triangle 😂. Athena went to Telemachus because of the guilt eating at her from leaving Odysseus. She thought if she helped Telemachus instead maybe things would get better for her. Telemachus (unknowingly) convinces her to finally go help Odysseus. Since he was her warrior, she is able to do what is called a “Time Dive”. She saw everything Odysseus went through up until the most recent memory on the cliff. TW for SA- Calypso is pretty much delusional. She was banished to the island after the Titan war. As soon as Odysseus arrives, she clings onto him like a child with a puppy. (“I’m no pet. I’m a married man”). She has complete control over the island, and won’t leg him leave. She reinforces what she wants through lyrics such as “into bed we’ll climb”, “I’m what you want”, “I’m what you need”, that he’s there to “entertain” her, and “you’re mine. All mine.” For years she’s been using him, until one night he can’t take it anymore. He goes to the cliff, ready to jump, _shouting_ at her to go away, until he finally pulls his Hail Mary. A desperate cry to Athena to save him, or he’ll jump. God Games, pretty much self explanatory, except for the end. We don’t know what happened to Athena after Zeus. If it’s still up, I _highly recommend_ checking out the livestream on Jorge’s channel (Jorge Rivera Herrans). It gives context, awesome visuals, and clarification on some things, Love in Paradise, and God Games specifically.
Lol no kidding 😂 Though it’s even weirder in the original myth, Telemachus apparently married Circe after running into her while searching for his dad.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 That's not entirely how it went. It was much worse. This didn't happen in the Odyssey, but in a lost poem basically Odysseus and Circe had a son named Telegonus (which wasn't in the original myth). Telegonus basically grows up and goes to find Odysseus. Odysseus fights him thinking he's an intruder and doesn't know it's his son. Telegonus accidentally kills Odysseus, and Telegonus brings Telemachus and Penelope back with him to Circe's island. There, Penelope marries Telegonus and Telemachus marries Circe.
For some context, Calypso is stuck on her island too (because she helped Titans (her father is Atlas) in the war against gods). Odysseus managed to slip through the cracks of the spell somehow and so she immediately latched onto him, because it was her first time seeing someone in a few thousand years. that's also why she doesn't want him to die. Also I think it's already really cool that you went beyond your typical reaction content to react to the new sagas fully and in order so thanks!
@@davidcarter9959the og commenter is right. Kalypso being trapped because of siding with the Titans is actually in some versions of mythology, but the cursed to fall in love with anyone who washes up is all Percy Jackson
Part of the reason why Penelope can’t do anything about the suitors besides stall them is that she is motivated the head of the house and Ancient Greek hospitality rules. Odysseus, the king and head of house, is missing and even tho she is queen Penelope does not have full power over the house because she is a woman. There are also very strict rules about hospitality in Greece and if they are broken that could be detrimental to both Penelope and Telemachus.
@@v1lsxe I mean the lyrics are well written, like damn I felt shivers hearing the “until the boy stops shaking” I like the lyrics but obviously not the subject in real life.
A few notes on this saga & the sagas after this there are HEAVY allusions to s/a & r@pe, specifically with Calypso to Odyssey & the Suitors to Penelope. Also at the end of Love In Paradise, Calypso uses words/phrases from the important people in Odyssey's life to try & lure him back to her. The nickname Eurylechus called him in Mutiny (Ody), his mother's last thoughts from the Underworld saga (I'll stay in your heart), & of course, for Polities, open arms.
That 2nd part is complete theory btw, in the official animatics, there's no malicious intent with her words, and a few of characters have been calling Odysseus "Ody", they just remind him of who he's lost. And Jorge has explained theres no SA in EPIC, particularly with Calypso.
@matthewbibby8921 She didn't kidnap him...? He was put there by Zeus, neither of them can leave. Plus she took care of him, there's no SA, she does fall in love with him but he ignores her advances every time
1. man’s eyeliner is slaying 2. this musical has grabbed me by the neck and has me in a chokehold thanks for listening 3. all love to the animators, we thrive through the animatics!!!
Btw if anyone tries to tell you that Calypso was cursed to fall in love with anyone who came to her island just know that version was 100% made up by Rick Riordan. And even if it was true it doesn't excuse SA lol.
The reason people were pressed about this specifically is because like Most musicals, it is a story so its like jumping to a random page in a book then being confused as to why you don't understand anything lol
And I mean we don't need a full on reaction video of the past sagas it would be lovely to see However is it really that hard to have some music going in the background while cleaning or while on a drive 😅
@@PistachioPancake right? i dont need an essay on the content, just to give himself context, and also answer quite a few of his questions would be nice
He does it with cartoon reactions too though, this isn’t the only thing people get pressed about. Of course Mathew doesn’t have time to check out everything (so he watches bits and pieces), and he does like watching stuff while lacking context and trying to put it together himself.
@@saddlebagbut when it comes to songs for franchises/musicals he ends up watching them all any way so why not enjoy them the way they're meant to be enjoyed.
@@Giveuponyourdreamsanddie2 Usually musicals aren’t as long as EPIC: The Musical, he did do all of Hamilton but that felt like more of a special occasion. I’d love for him to check out every song, but it’s not my expectation that he will. I also wouldn’t say he ends up watching all of every franchise he checks out either, there’s plenty of series where that’s not the case.
On the relation between Odysseus and Calypso, here is a bit from the original story “In the nights, true, / he'd sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing”
@@Giveuponyourdreamsanddie2 Pretty sure Jorge explicitly said that his adaptation doesn't include Calypso's SA. Not to excuse what she did; she still ignored his wishes and emotionally manipulated him for years. Even if there wasn't malicious intent behind it, she's in the wrong here. But at least she didn't take things as far as in the canon.
@@cojecYeah while she still did things wrong from what we can get in the lyrics (continuing advances after Odysseus’ rejection), it’s very doubtful that she went any further than that based on the first song the Vengeance Saga (Odysseus’ lyrics in that song imply a more positive relationship with Calypso). tbh we need Jorge to make a video clarifying what exactly happened so that this debate on Calypso ends
Also not sure if this was the ruling back in that time or not but I do know that it used to be a thing: 'R@pe counted as cheating' I think it was something to do with the idea that men had the physical strength to push them away and if it was the other way around then it was seen as the woman fault since as they could use words to push the men away and about how they dressed So if this was true in the time period of the musical Athena wouldn't be able to win Hera over with her line of "never once has he cheated on his wife" meaning that nothing like that happened on the island
Athena is one of the virgin gods (basically aroace) and her relationship with Odysseus is more like a strict mother. She becomes friends with Telemecus which was how Odysseus had originally tried being her friend
the only thing that's a slight issue with the Athena's crushing on Odysseus theory is that in mythology Athena is completely immune to love, but hey, you do you, I'm not shipping police
So Apollo didn’t become the Sun God until Roman times. In Greek mythology the Sun God was Helios. Apollo was a God of Music, Theatre, archery, and Medicine
The gods Athena had to convince were mostly those who sided with Troy in the Trojan war, aka the people Odysseus killed Athena is one of the Virgin Goddesses-one of the few never to marry or take a man, ever. I personally see her as aromantic, with Odysseus being the first person to ever view her as a friend. Athena didn’t realize how much that meant until it was gone, until she’d turned her back on Odysseus and realized how right he was: she was alone
okay so... I laughed hardl because like, the "is athena, odysseus and telemachus a love triangle?" question made me almost scream how do you forget the whole point of (Jorge's version of) Odyssey is Odysseus getting back to Penelope
Fun fact since you said you want to hear more of her!! Athena's voice actress actually has her own music stuff. (Teagan Earley. Music channel is TE/MO) Just released an ep and everything
I think the people were so angry in the last songs because it’s honestly not that much to listen to if you do the songs by saga. The sagas only have anywhere from 3-5 songs each. The Troy saga has 5 songs, the cyclops saga has 4, the ocean saga has 4, Circe’s saga has 4, the underworld has 3, the thunder saga has 5 and the wisdom saga has 5.
I’m pretty sure the relationship between Odysseus & Athena is a mother-son one, I think it may be actually referenced somewhere but idk ,also Helios is the sun god and the friend of those cows that were killed, Apollo is actually a the good of sunlight
I am convinced that Aphrodite wasn’t convinced by “a broken heart can mend” but rather Athena’s genuine anger and display of affection towards Odysseus and Telemachus
I saw someone say, that Ares was also defeated in terms of logic the moment he mentions Telemachus because while his points were somewhat correct for Odysseus, a young man who decided to fight for his mother's honour knowing he was gonna lose (with 108 men mocking him) is anything but a coward. Love that theory
I don't want to be mean, but I don't understand the "I don't have time to do research on everything I watch", it literally takes 5 seconds to write on google "epic the musical in order". Anyway, good video, I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Im sorry. still believe you should've listened to the whole thing. takes like 2 hours for the entire thing but it'd be shorter if you skip the ones you've heard before. gives more of an impact to the story and leaves you less confused about whats going on. still watched the video but it does leave something to be desired
Dude, absolutely no pressure or anything and sorry if the insistence was too much last time, but we would absolutely (and evidently) be so down to have you react to the whole thing slowly, one saga at a time, even if you’ve already heard some. Obviously no push if you don’t want to, but I think people wanted less for you to have already had context, but more so to see your reaction from the beginning. I personally love your videos and would be so happy to see you react even more to one of my favourite musicals, I’d never get tired of it.
I wonder what Matthew's understanding of Athena's relationship with Odysseus and Telemachus would be like if he watched the animatics from the livestream. I'm all for each artist having their own interpretation and portrayal, but things can get a bit confusing with so many versions of the events available
even if its not in a video, I think you should just listen to all the sagas by yourself. no animatic necessary, just for some brief context and because you'll really enjoy them.
Ody has been away for 19-20 years when legendary takes place, the trojan war lasted 10 years and the journey home took 10 more years (in the original it was 2 years until calypso, 7 years on ogygia and then another year before he returned)
Well the thing is that the Ancient Greek definition of a hero is very different from the modern one. To the Ancient Greeks, a hero didn't necessarily have to be morally good, a hero was someone who accomplished great feats.
13:25 No, Queens did not have power back then they were just there to have the babies and her *having* any say in who she marries is purely based on Odysseus not yet being confirmed as dead and having made a deal with her father back when her father was getting her married the first time(she would just be killed and her son would be put on the throne) Funny enough, this deal is why Ody was sent away in the first place; he didn't even wanna go
7:55 Odyssey/Epic spoilers That man, Antinous, is actually the first person killed when Odysseus attacks the suitors Odysseus shoots through the 12 axes, then turns and shoots Antinous through the throat The other suitors assume it was a mistake. It was not.
I understand not having the time to react to all of the songs in order. On the other hand, then I wished the reactions were isolated to the music of each song and not the overarching plot. Many of your comments from the last two videos were from analyzing the plot and commenting on how fast odysseus became an asshole and 😭 truly, what did you expect from skipping around 😭😭 anyway I'm still glad you enjoyed what you could edit: oh holy shit it is so satisfying to watch you progress through the songs. athena and odysseus definitely have a mentor/friend relationship, and i want to say it's the same with his son. there are motifs for athena where she duets odysseus, and telemachus unknowingly duets with her, doing odysseus' part but with his own little spin. it's super cute.
I'm just happy you are listening to EPIC. In order is definitely better for context but I'd rather you enjoy the experience the stress about it. Also your eyeliner looks great!
Canonically (as in the animatics that Jorge himself commisioned), when Athena was getting the strength to ask Zeus one more time, she actually sees the first time she held Telemachus as a baby and just how close she was to she and Odysseus's family was.
Okay so this is my third comment on this video but I’m back because I got to Love in Paradise and wanted to share this passage for those who haven’t read/don’t fully remember the Odyssey. “By nights he would lie beside her, of necessity, in the hollow caverns, against his will, by one who was willing, but all the days he would sit upon the rocks, at the seaside, breaking his heart in tears and lamentation and sorrow as weeping tears he looked out over the barren water.” (Book V, lines 154-158)
Gonna be real you are like the first person who thinks Athena had even the slightest thing for Ody I've seen, this is not a love situation, this is Athena's first true friend she's ever had and she's realized "well fuck, shit, I messed up" and wants to atone to it by helping his son at the very least. It's been 20 years since Ody left for war, and his wife believes in him so much she's never going to risk it and her kingdom to these random ass suitors. Who btw, all want to be her husband, forcefully at this point, no love required, either by killing her and leaving the throne finally open, or you know, the worst type of 'your mine.' love.
Ah there was so much you missed from Love in Paradise especially by not having seen the last one. "I don't wanna do homework for my videos" that's what most YTers have to do tho? Research is just part of making videos from what i understood... but yeah, Athena is deffo not crushing haha (nice eyeliner tho!)
9:27 I love this song so much it made sound so y'know *epic* 23:50 I AGREE SO MUCH MATHEW, APHRODITE'S VOICE SOUNDS SO NICE. I love it so much I don't even know how to express it
Athena is one of the virgin goddess’s who’s forever single status was more than a personal choice but was also actively sacred. So she doesn’t do relationships cause that would kinda be considered sacrilegious.
Hmmmmm, actually finding out the context beforehand and not asking stupid questions or just balling it and reaping the sweet sweet hype mula from the views? Ofc we're just gonna ride the hype wave without putting in any effort
You should watch the livestream - it's on Jorge's channel and has all the official animatics! Also, Telemachus is "little wolf" because Ody and hos crew are "the wolf pack" as referenced in Ruthlessness, when Poseidon sings "the pack of wolves is swimming with the sharks now" Jorge also posts shorts. Lately, he's posting shorts with the reference videos he has sent to the animators of the official animatics.
i was not going to say anything until the "no i will" you cant be a reaction channel and not do research its so shamefull to just jump on trends but at least you credited the artists
No need to feel bad, the Matthew McKenna RUclips experience is watching you listen to/watch things out of order and theorize what’s going on, that’s the fun!
It's such a coincidence that I just sat here and watched the other videos of you reacting to the musical, and now you've just watched the wisdom saga as I've just finished the others. It just amazes me, honestly😄
everything's going nuts over here
Same
Ikr
Buddy like the wisdom saga is awesome
@@A_daughter_of_Neptune hell yeah I agree
@@Neveah-xm1rk okay but like during 11 Paradise when I'm like Odysseus was going to jump from the ledge I literally like sat there and I'm just like I was crying It was listening to it while I was doing laundry and I listened to a little wolf for the first time and I was like oh my God that's the best song in the entire world we'll be fine it's definitely on the bottom of my tier list mostly it's because it it made me cry and my one of my second favorite song is God games and then it's legendary I cannot put legendary on in the car because I'm literally like 12 years old in my family will be like why the hell are you listen to a song with the word tramp in it
For Penelope, She couldn’t do anything, the ancient greece had a “rule” for hospitality. The guests were sacred, so she was stuck with this rude and violents men for at last 15 years
To add onto this, she's not head of house, and that's why she couldn't kick them out. Since odysseus is alive, even if he's not there, he's still the head of house, and since the suitors were being terrible guests, the gods didn't rebuke him for killing all of them when he came home
Yeah, tons of reactors talk about it like she had a choice. She really would have had to marry somebody eventually. She knows that the kingdom needed a king, and she wouldn't be allowed to fill that role.
15? Why 15?
They actually didn't go to Ithaca until about the 16th or 17th year I think, at least in the Odyssey. They didn't go until Odysseus' apparent "death" spread around Greece and other areas. He was gone for 10 years for the trojan war and then some years after others returned they realised that Odysseus never made it back so they suspected he was dead and started going to Ithaca to try to court Penelope.
Athena is one of the three virgin goddesses of Olympus so she does not crush on people especially mortals.
Tbf it does change from the of mythos so there is a chance they change some of the details with gods
@@rachelyoung8401true but Jorge doesn’t strike as the type of person to make a character stop being aroace
@@rachelyoung8401 If you ask me the friendship is closer to a strict mother over the course of the songs
The awkward part is that the existence of different types of love is a BIG part of Greek culture, but in modern day we only think of love as romantic or familial. So if two characters who aren't blood related show any kind of affection, we immediately think they're potential romantic partners.
@@rachelyoung8401 yeah I understand but this is not just a “detail” about Athena. This is basically her identity, and the most famous statue of Athena is called Athena Parthenos which means Athena the Virgin. Athena, just like the goddesses Artemis and Hestia will be forever virgins.
This is a cute detail that Telemacus actually looks so simmilar to his dad that Matthew even thought at first that this is Odysseus himself
I literally thought it was Jay singing as Telemachus until I asked my friend (we were watching it together) and she said it wasn’t lmao
Fr 😂
@SauceyRedHN that's how you know Jorge casted fantastic voice that not only sound FANTASTIC but also correlates to the characters
Matthew thinking Athena is crushing on Ody without realising shes a maiden goddess is hilarious (also im LOVING the eyeliner :33)
Eyeliner is popping off today 🔥
thank you sm!
@@MathewMcKenna YOU SLAYYIN
Fr
@@MathewMcKennaSlayyy
@@RiskoPlexusyassss
Fun fact: Hephastus was played by Jorge's dad
Papa Jalapeno
He also was the one that built the studio Jorge uses to record the songs for Epic.
I love his accent
@@Giveuponyourdreamsanddie2a true Hephaestus fr
he sacrificed his uncle hort 💔
"I hope he takes the puppy, but I feel like the puppy will die."
Flashbacks to when Jorge said, "I want to see the dog in Legendary, and then I don't ever want to see that dog again."
I love your profile picture!
@@valentinagutierrez6959 Aww, thank you! 😊
@@PaisleyDoebler Your welcome 😊
"Why do I kinds of love Athena now?"
Character growth.
Okay. I was reading through the comments. No one has mentioned this yet, but Odysseus was kept prisoner on Calypso's island and...there's a full translation of the Odyssey that explains this better.
Sensitive content warning!
Calypso basically forced Odysseus to sleep with her for 7 YEARS. And since Odysseus doesn't have any power, all he can do is try to escape it.
While true for the original text, I don’t think it’s what happened in Epic. Mostly based on a song from the next saga (Spoilers Below)
In “Not Sorry For Loving You”, Odysseus has a line implying Calypso being a friend or at least some form of positive relationship (“I love you but not in the way that you want me to”). And the whole song in general is just like really weird if in the context of an abuser. I doubt Jorge gave a heartfelt and emotional song to a Calypso that did what she did in the original text
@@germesthegenie8574 After 7 years, it's natural to form a bond even if it's toxic.
@@germesthegenie8574 Honestly I think that it’s up to your own personal interpretation until Jorge says it specifically. There is a cut song where Ody tells calypso that he’s ready to sleep with her and while she’s getting ready he’s trying to flee the island. Also just the lyric choices in love in paradise imply the power dynamic and also imply what happens. “You’re mine, all mine” idk calypso in general makes me feel gross
Keep in mind Epic is not an exact recreation of the story. So we don’t really know if it was that bad in Epic. He was kept there for 7 years and that part was bad but whether it is just as bad as the Odyssey is debatable. I guess it is just up to what you personally want to think unless Jorge mentioned it.
Didn't calipso force Odysseus in the original one to have kids? I think I saw that pop up in some other animation💀
I feel it should be mentioned that Athena is a virgin goddess and her whole shtick is that she’s not into men at all, so no crushing, I think it’s more of a parental relationship where she realised her wrongs with Odysseus and tries to make it better with his son as a way to kinda reconnect?? Honestly it kinda depends on what animatics you see, they do have a strong impact on how you view things
She has major "cool aunt" energy. Oddyseus is like her little punk nephew
@wordforger
I mean, Hermes and Athena are siblings and Hermes is a great grandfather of Odysseus.
So technically, they are aunt and nephew.
If you want to see the canon visuals, I believe the livestream is still up on Jorge’s channel. (Not even for a video or anything. Just so you can get a better grasp on some things).
note on this: yes, but iirc the livestream went down during Love in Paradise so the vod is split in two
@@RisingRoseah, yes. That was quite an experience
@@RisingRose Captain!
CAPTAIN!!
CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN! WHY WOULD YOU LET THE STREAM GO DOWN WHEN RUTHLESSNESS IS MERCY
Quick run down-
Telemachus is now 20ish. The suitors are getting upset that Penelope still hasn’t chosen one of them to take Odysseus’ place, resulting in the fight between Antinous and Telemachus, and Athena appearing. She heard him call for help. Next, well, yk, there’s no love triangle 😂. Athena went to Telemachus because of the guilt eating at her from leaving Odysseus. She thought if she helped Telemachus instead maybe things would get better for her. Telemachus (unknowingly) convinces her to finally go help Odysseus.
Since he was her warrior, she is able to do what is called a “Time Dive”. She saw everything Odysseus went through up until the most recent memory on the cliff.
TW for SA-
Calypso is pretty much delusional. She was banished to the island after the Titan war. As soon as Odysseus arrives, she clings onto him like a child with a puppy. (“I’m no pet. I’m a married man”). She has complete control over the island, and won’t leg him leave. She reinforces what she wants through lyrics such as “into bed we’ll climb”, “I’m what you want”, “I’m what you need”, that he’s there to “entertain” her, and “you’re mine. All mine.” For years she’s been using him, until one night he can’t take it anymore. He goes to the cliff, ready to jump, _shouting_ at her to go away, until he finally pulls his Hail Mary. A desperate cry to Athena to save him, or he’ll jump.
God Games, pretty much self explanatory, except for the end. We don’t know what happened to Athena after Zeus. If it’s still up, I _highly recommend_ checking out the livestream on Jorge’s channel (Jorge Rivera Herrans). It gives context, awesome visuals, and clarification on some things, Love in Paradise, and God Games specifically.
My man has never heard of a platonic male/female friendship
Lol no kidding 😂
Though it’s even weirder in the original myth, Telemachus apparently married Circe after running into her while searching for his dad.
@@questworldiangreenknight7455 That's not entirely how it went. It was much worse. This didn't happen in the Odyssey, but in a lost poem basically Odysseus and Circe had a son named Telegonus (which wasn't in the original myth). Telegonus basically grows up and goes to find Odysseus. Odysseus fights him thinking he's an intruder and doesn't know it's his son. Telegonus accidentally kills Odysseus, and Telegonus brings Telemachus and Penelope back with him to Circe's island. There, Penelope marries Telegonus and Telemachus marries Circe.
@@MildlyPerturbed oh yes I was aware of this, it’s very interesting how many different versions there are of the story.
For some context, Calypso is stuck on her island too (because she helped Titans (her father is Atlas) in the war against gods). Odysseus managed to slip through the cracks of the spell somehow and so she immediately latched onto him, because it was her first time seeing someone in a few thousand years. that's also why she doesn't want him to die.
Also I think it's already really cool that you went beyond your typical reaction content to react to the new sagas fully and in order so thanks!
That's the Percy Jackson version, the ancient texts do not mention the curse of not being able to leave Ogyia
@@davidcarter9959 yup, there's no mention of that anywhere within the greek myth
@@junzaragoza608is she also not cursed to love anyone that comes to the island?
@@somedudewatchintv5297 nope, no records of that from any myth is ever found. That's a contemporary or a modern twist for Calypso.
@@davidcarter9959the og commenter is right. Kalypso being trapped because of siding with the Titans is actually in some versions of mythology, but the cursed to fall in love with anyone who washes up is all Percy Jackson
Part of the reason why Penelope can’t do anything about the suitors besides stall them is that she is motivated the head of the house and Ancient Greek hospitality rules. Odysseus, the king and head of house, is missing and even tho she is queen Penelope does not have full power over the house because she is a woman. There are also very strict rules about hospitality in Greece and if they are broken that could be detrimental to both Penelope and Telemachus.
Loving the eyeliner today mathew 😊thanks for reacting to the wisdom saga!
tysmmm
Oh boy, Matthew is not ready for Hold Him Down. (Honestly, neither am I.)
Oh I’m so ready for that song (hate the lyrics but it’s slaps)
@@v1lsxe No it goes so hard and I know I’m gonna jam out then feel really guilty for screaming the lyrics.
@@v1lsxeit's already my favorite before it's even out but the lyrics are so vile 😭
@@v1lsxe I mean the lyrics are well written, like damn I felt shivers hearing the “until the boy stops shaking” I like the lyrics but obviously not the subject in real life.
I heard today is telemachus' birthday 🎶🎵
A few notes on this saga & the sagas after this there are HEAVY allusions to s/a & r@pe, specifically with Calypso to Odyssey & the Suitors to Penelope.
Also at the end of Love In Paradise, Calypso uses words/phrases from the important people in Odyssey's life to try & lure him back to her. The nickname Eurylechus called him in Mutiny (Ody), his mother's last thoughts from the Underworld saga (I'll stay in your heart), & of course, for Polities, open arms.
That 2nd part is complete theory btw, in the official animatics, there's no malicious intent with her words, and a few of characters have been calling Odysseus "Ody", they just remind him of who he's lost.
And Jorge has explained theres no SA in EPIC, particularly with Calypso.
@@LukeBridger As if kidnapping him and trying to pressure him into it for ten years makes it better just because she was unsuccessful.
@matthewbibby8921 She didn't kidnap him...? He was put there by Zeus, neither of them can leave. Plus she took care of him, there's no SA, she does fall in love with him but he ignores her advances every time
1. man’s eyeliner is slaying
2. this musical has grabbed me by the neck and has me in a chokehold thanks for listening
3. all love to the animators, we thrive through the animatics!!!
All of these are so real!!
@@Soda_Fizzy i have never told a lie in my life
25:27 "dont start games if your gonna be pissy when someone wins" allow me to introduce you to zeus
Btw if anyone tries to tell you that Calypso was cursed to fall in love with anyone who came to her island just know that version was 100% made up by Rick Riordan. And even if it was true it doesn't excuse SA lol.
Also I think iin myth she commited suicide after ody left
@@WhiteRussian1613well I guess thats justice to all the fans of polities after she said 'open arms'
The reason people were pressed about this specifically is because like Most musicals, it is a story so its like jumping to a random page in a book then being confused as to why you don't understand anything lol
And I mean we don't need a full on reaction video of the past sagas it would be lovely to see
However is it really that hard to have some music going in the background while cleaning or while on a drive 😅
@@PistachioPancake right? i dont need an essay on the content, just to give himself context, and also answer quite a few of his questions would be nice
He does it with cartoon reactions too though, this isn’t the only thing people get pressed about. Of course Mathew doesn’t have time to check out everything (so he watches bits and pieces), and he does like watching stuff while lacking context and trying to put it together himself.
@@saddlebagbut when it comes to songs for franchises/musicals he ends up watching them all any way so why not enjoy them the way they're meant to be enjoyed.
@@Giveuponyourdreamsanddie2 Usually musicals aren’t as long as EPIC: The Musical, he did do all of Hamilton but that felt like more of a special occasion. I’d love for him to check out every song, but it’s not my expectation that he will. I also wouldn’t say he ends up watching all of every franchise he checks out either, there’s plenty of series where that’s not the case.
On the relation between Odysseus and Calypso, here is a bit from the original story
“In the nights, true, / he'd sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing”
Lets keep in mind we already stayed from the orginal story and not attribute traits to her uness stated otherwise
@lop90ful1 yeah no the lyrics for love in paradise says all you should need to know its basically the same as the odyssey
@@Giveuponyourdreamsanddie2 Pretty sure Jorge explicitly said that his adaptation doesn't include Calypso's SA. Not to excuse what she did; she still ignored his wishes and emotionally manipulated him for years. Even if there wasn't malicious intent behind it, she's in the wrong here. But at least she didn't take things as far as in the canon.
@@cojecYeah while she still did things wrong from what we can get in the lyrics (continuing advances after Odysseus’ rejection), it’s very doubtful that she went any further than that based on the first song the Vengeance Saga (Odysseus’ lyrics in that song imply a more positive relationship with Calypso). tbh we need Jorge to make a video clarifying what exactly happened so that this debate on Calypso ends
Also not sure if this was the ruling back in that time or not but I do know that it used to be a thing:
'R@pe counted as cheating' I think it was something to do with the idea that men had the physical strength to push them away and if it was the other way around then it was seen as the woman fault since as they could use words to push the men away and about how they dressed
So if this was true in the time period of the musical Athena wouldn't be able to win Hera over with her line of "never once has he cheated on his wife" meaning that nothing like that happened on the island
Athena is one of the virgin gods (basically aroace) and her relationship with Odysseus is more like a strict mother. She becomes friends with Telemecus which was how Odysseus had originally tried being her friend
16:38 have you ever heard of the concept of friendship
7:39 "by getting with litterally nobody" i see what you did there
the only thing that's a slight issue with the Athena's crushing on Odysseus theory is that in mythology Athena is completely immune to love, but hey, you do you, I'm not shipping police
So Apollo didn’t become the Sun God until Roman times. In Greek mythology the Sun God was Helios. Apollo was a God of Music, Theatre, archery, and Medicine
Mathew, my dude. loving platonic male-female friendships /lh
"don't you dare call my mother a prude!"
"I just did. Whatcha gonna do about it, dude?"
The gods Athena had to convince were mostly those who sided with Troy in the Trojan war, aka the people Odysseus killed
Athena is one of the Virgin Goddesses-one of the few never to marry or take a man, ever. I personally see her as aromantic, with Odysseus being the first person to ever view her as a friend.
Athena didn’t realize how much that meant until it was gone, until she’d turned her back on Odysseus and realized how right he was: she was alone
Slaying the eyeliner Mathew
WISDOM SAGA YESS (Ur eyeliner is gorgeous i cant😭)
okay so... I laughed hardl because like, the "is athena, odysseus and telemachus a love triangle?" question made me almost scream
how do you forget the whole point of (Jorge's version of) Odyssey is Odysseus getting back to Penelope
Woo!!
Side note, I love your eyeliner
The musical has a bunch of call backs and returning motifs, so watching all of it helps with context and themes. But you good!
Mathew not going crazy over Ayron Alexander's/Antinous' voice is a crime!
I love the eyeliner, also I LOVE epic the musical I can't wait to finish this video!
Fun fact since you said you want to hear more of her!! Athena's voice actress actually has her own music stuff. (Teagan Earley. Music channel is TE/MO) Just released an ep and everything
I think the people were so angry in the last songs because it’s honestly not that much to listen to if you do the songs by saga. The sagas only have anywhere from 3-5 songs each. The Troy saga has 5 songs, the cyclops saga has 4, the ocean saga has 4, Circe’s saga has 4, the underworld has 3, the thunder saga has 5 and the wisdom saga has 5.
Loving the eyeliner this video!! On point.
thank you! haha i've been working on doing it better
@@MathewMcKenna Well it’s paying off!
I’m pretty sure the relationship between Odysseus & Athena is a mother-son one, I think it may be actually referenced somewhere but idk ,also Helios is the sun god and the friend of those cows that were killed, Apollo is actually a the good of sunlight
I am convinced that Aphrodite wasn’t convinced by “a broken heart can mend” but rather Athena’s genuine anger and display of affection towards Odysseus and Telemachus
I saw someone say, that Ares was also defeated in terms of logic the moment he mentions Telemachus because while his points were somewhat correct for Odysseus, a young man who decided to fight for his mother's honour knowing he was gonna lose (with 108 men mocking him) is anything but a coward. Love that theory
I don't want to be mean, but I don't understand the "I don't have time to do research on everything I watch", it literally takes 5 seconds to write on google "epic the musical in order".
Anyway, good video, I'm glad you're enjoying it.
No 👏romance 👏with👏 athena 👏matthew!👏
Im sorry. still believe you should've listened to the whole thing. takes like 2 hours for the entire thing but it'd be shorter if you skip the ones you've heard before. gives more of an impact to the story and leaves you less confused about whats going on. still watched the video but it does leave something to be desired
Dude, absolutely no pressure or anything and sorry if the insistence was too much last time, but we would absolutely (and evidently) be so down to have you react to the whole thing slowly, one saga at a time, even if you’ve already heard some. Obviously no push if you don’t want to, but I think people wanted less for you to have already had context, but more so to see your reaction from the beginning. I personally love your videos and would be so happy to see you react even more to one of my favourite musicals, I’d never get tired of it.
I wonder what Matthew's understanding of Athena's relationship with Odysseus and Telemachus would be like if he watched the animatics from the livestream. I'm all for each artist having their own interpretation and portrayal, but things can get a bit confusing with so many versions of the events available
even if its not in a video, I think you should just listen to all the sagas by yourself. no animatic necessary, just for some brief context and because you'll really enjoy them.
Ody has been away for 19-20 years when legendary takes place, the trojan war lasted 10 years and the journey home took 10 more years (in the original it was 2 years until calypso, 7 years on ogygia and then another year before he returned)
also, Calypso has been sa'ing ody for 7 years, that's the lead up into the ledge part of love in paradise
Woooo!!
Wisdom Saga let's goo!!❤❤❤
YESSSS WISDOM SAGA has been living on loop in my head for days ❤❤❤
Wait i just noticed??? The eyeliner???? looks *fantastic* ✨
Love the eyeliner! You should listen to the Underworld Saga, it’s very good, and has important character development for Odysseus
Well the thing is that the Ancient Greek definition of a hero is very different from the modern one. To the Ancient Greeks, a hero didn't necessarily have to be morally good, a hero was someone who accomplished great feats.
Animatic: Shows Athena's memories how she basicly raised Odysseus.
Mathew: She is crushing.
Mathew really likes spicy drama i guess
13:25 No, Queens did not have power back then they were just there to have the babies and her *having* any say in who she marries is purely based on Odysseus not yet being confirmed as dead and having made a deal with her father back when her father was getting her married the first time(she would just be killed and her son would be put on the throne)
Funny enough, this deal is why Ody was sent away in the first place; he didn't even wanna go
glad i’m not the only one who immediately fell in love with aphrodite’s voice it’s just gorgeousss
7:55 Odyssey/Epic spoilers
That man, Antinous, is actually the first person killed when Odysseus attacks the suitors
Odysseus shoots through the 12 axes, then turns and shoots Antinous through the throat
The other suitors assume it was a mistake.
It was not.
The voice for Aphrodite actually makes her own song you should react to them her name is J. Maya. Her songs are the bomb.
i totally get what you're saying with "We'll Be Fine" seeming kinda romantic, but Athena is a virgin goddess PLUS Ody has his wife
I understand not having the time to react to all of the songs in order. On the other hand, then I wished the reactions were isolated to the music of each song and not the overarching plot. Many of your comments from the last two videos were from analyzing the plot and commenting on how fast odysseus became an asshole and 😭 truly, what did you expect from skipping around 😭😭 anyway I'm still glad you enjoyed what you could
edit: oh holy shit it is so satisfying to watch you progress through the songs. athena and odysseus definitely have a mentor/friend relationship, and i want to say it's the same with his son. there are motifs for athena where she duets odysseus, and telemachus unknowingly duets with her, doing odysseus' part but with his own little spin. it's super cute.
On the one hand, I'm all caught up with your Epic the Musical reactions! On the other hand, I'm all caught up and need to wait for more 😭😭😭
THE MAKEUP IS EATING SO HARD
Mathew! The eyeliner and hair today look soo good 👌🤌
Felicity said hit play and Mathew heard slay✨
mathew PLEASE just start from the beginning of the show😭 i promise everything would make so much more sense
Athena is pretty aroace so she is not crushing on Odysseus but i see where you are coming from
I'm just happy you are listening to EPIC. In order is definitely better for context but I'd rather you enjoy the experience the stress about it. Also your eyeliner looks great!
Canonically (as in the animatics that Jorge himself commisioned), when Athena was getting the strength to ask Zeus one more time, she actually sees the first time she held Telemachus as a baby and just how close she was to she and Odysseus's family was.
Okay so this is my third comment on this video but I’m back because I got to Love in Paradise and wanted to share this passage for those who haven’t read/don’t fully remember the Odyssey. “By nights he would lie beside her, of necessity, in the hollow caverns, against his will, by one who was willing, but all the days he would sit upon the rocks, at the seaside, breaking his heart in tears and lamentation and sorrow as weeping tears he looked out over the barren water.” (Book V, lines 154-158)
Matthew thinking Telemachus was Ody is hilarious 😂😂
everyone is talking about the eyeliner (which is stunning btw!) but can we talk about your absolutely gorgeous eyes??!?!?!?!??!
Gonna be real you are like the first person who thinks Athena had even the slightest thing for Ody I've seen, this is not a love situation, this is Athena's first true friend she's ever had and she's realized "well fuck, shit, I messed up" and wants to atone to it by helping his son at the very least.
It's been 20 years since Ody left for war, and his wife believes in him so much she's never going to risk it and her kingdom to these random ass suitors. Who btw, all want to be her husband, forcefully at this point, no love required, either by killing her and leaving the throne finally open, or you know, the worst type of 'your mine.' love.
Never been this early to an upload EVER but I'm happy I was here to watch your video so soon :D
omg I love the eyeliner, you are slaying! Good video as always :)
Ah there was so much you missed from Love in Paradise especially by not having seen the last one. "I don't wanna do homework for my videos" that's what most YTers have to do tho? Research is just part of making videos from what i understood... but yeah, Athena is deffo not crushing haha (nice eyeliner tho!)
"If I fight these monsters is it you I'll find?"
Odysseus is a monster....
"I am the Monster RAW RAW RAW
I am the Monster RAW RAW RAW
I am the monster
I am the monster
I am the Monster RAW RAW RAW "
9:27 I love this song so much it made sound so y'know *epic*
23:50 I AGREE SO MUCH MATHEW, APHRODITE'S VOICE SOUNDS SO NICE. I love it so much I don't even know how to express it
if storm was the saga of "what" then wisdom is the saga of cliffhangers
Athena is one of the virgin goddess’s who’s forever single status was more than a personal choice but was also actively sacred.
So she doesn’t do relationships cause that would kinda be considered sacrilegious.
“Am I crazy?” No you just forgot that men and women can in fact; be friends
Hmmmmm, actually finding out the context beforehand and not asking stupid questions or just balling it and reaping the sweet sweet hype mula from the views? Ofc we're just gonna ride the hype wave without putting in any effort
IT ISNT APOLLO’S CATTLE ITS HELIOS’ 😭🙏
You should watch the livestream - it's on Jorge's channel and has all the official animatics!
Also, Telemachus is "little wolf" because Ody and hos crew are "the wolf pack" as referenced in Ruthlessness, when Poseidon sings "the pack of wolves is swimming with the sharks now"
Jorge also posts shorts. Lately, he's posting shorts with the reference videos he has sent to the animators of the official animatics.
Janani K. Jha is the voice behind Aphrodite and her music is AMAZING you should check it out, especially Achilles Heel
I know someone already mentioned it but omg your eyeliner is ON POINT today
THE MAKEUP 0:28
IT LOOKS GORGEOUS
BEDAZZLED
THE MAKEUP IS CHEFFS KISS!
i was not going to say anything until the "no i will" you cant be a reaction channel and not do research its so shamefull to just jump on trends but at least you credited the artists
No need to feel bad, the Matthew McKenna RUclips experience is watching you listen to/watch things out of order and theorize what’s going on, that’s the fun!
FIGHT LITTLE WOLF FIGHT
It's such a coincidence that I just sat here and watched the other videos of you reacting to the musical, and now you've just watched the wisdom saga as I've just finished the others. It just amazes me, honestly😄
you actually look so fine with the eyeliner rn i cant
Your makeup looks so good, I wish I had that much skill, I gave up on winged eyeliner 😭
Ive been really obsessed with wisdom saga reactions lately so this is crazy timing lmao
I mean it’s not homework, a simple google search will get you what you need
Isnt that kind of a rabbit hole though😅
7:58 The hand gesture when he said reminded me of Lucifer talking about Eve in Hazbin Hotel 😬
10:49 Yeah, it kinda sounds like if they can't have the mom they'll have him (the Greeks weren't exactly opposed to gay sex or being with kids)
You're a little crazy because Athena's one of the three virgin goddesses but I'll forgive you because you're slaying today
16:29 Yes Matthew you are indeed crazy