Tywin Lannister: Machiavellianism, Perception & Power
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- In-depth analysis of Tywin Lannister.
Tywin Lannister was one of the few characters who possessed a keen understanding of how the world truly operates. He could see through the façade of virtues like honor, pride and bravery, recognizing them as mere tools to deceive those idealistic knights. He was well aware of what truly rules the world: fear, wealth, pragmatism and perception. And this demeanor was often seen as Machiavellian.
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Cuz he can and he’s not our bi*ch
It's entirely possible that Tywin was a good man at heart, he simply saw that the security and integrity of the Seven Kingdoms could only be kept if it was fiscally solvent, monetarily in the green and united enough to defend itself against outside invasion from powers wanting to exploit divided realms and conquer them one by one. He saw the threat from the last Targaryen and decided to even ally with bitter enemies like House Martell that he had personally deeply wronged in order to defend the kingdoms from that threat, and I don't assume he would have assumed that would be the last threat. If the fact that he eventually accepted that dragons were real again is any indicator he was probably even preparing to settle his debt with the iron bank through selling titles like Warden of the North to increase his "credit score" for lack of a better term, thereby allowing him to gain enough gold to fight the white walkers. Once that fight was over with, even in Winter, he probably would have invaded Braavos in order to cancel his second debt because of his sheer Machiavellian brilliance, thereby giving him enough capital to conquer the world should he wish it.
His flaw was failing to see how useful Tyrion was and how dangerous he would be if not praised and given land and title. His Machiavellianism failed him there, it was his blind spot.
It was less his ability to recognize his usefulness but rather his inability to overcome his grief over Joanna and thus his hatred of Tyrion. Remember Tywin still granted Tyrion the title of Hand of the King instead of leaving Cersei to rule alone in King’s Landing, he even made him Master of Coin after Blackwater. So at barest Minimum he considered Tyrion more useful than even Cersei in this regard.
To Tywin, Tyrion is an ugly little reminder of his wife’s death, a cruel practical joke from the gods, old and new.
To be honest, i can see his point of view. I dont support him, but i understand.
Tyrion was cursed with being a constant reminder of everything that made tywin angry.
So angry that it overwhelmed whatever rational thoughts he had.
Im not sure if you know of tywins past, but its like everything that happened in tywins life led to him hating tyrion.
Tywins dad was the mockery of the lannisport, he got no respect and it made people conspire against him.
Then tyrion is born as a dwarf and people make fun of him for that.
Then the mad king most likley raped tywins wife and tyrion is born 9 months later.
Then joanna dies giving birth to tyrion.
Joana, the only person who tywin ever loved and the only person who made him smile.
And tyrion is a constant reminder of the rape of his wife and of her death.
Finally, the mad king landed tywin a final blow by making jamie a kingsguard, meaning he couldnt marry, making tyrion the only remaining male heir , in other words, making the bastard son of the mad king the only heir to the lannister name.
cringe. only selfish/jealous/weak ppl need dishoner. its better for selfless ppl to be honorable then dishonorable. otherwise honor would be devalued in society. using this cruel good honor bad messages to get attention its cheap and dishonorable lmao.
Everyone talks about how ruthlessly pragmatic he was. That he outplayed the starks. But his influence DIED with him.
Is it better to be feared or loved? He was feared. Eddard Stark was loved. Stark's influence carried on after his death. Thousands of Northmen seek to avenge the starks or die in the attempt. Tywin's legacy is a house in ruin basically. Cersei will blow the sept and fuck everything up. All three of her kids will die. Kevan - tywin's brother is dead now as well. Jamie will have a redemption arc if he survives stoneheart (which he will obviously). Tyrion is not even a Lannister anymore really.
Of course he is able to see how good Tyrion is, that’s how Tyrion became Hand of the King.
He failed to emotionally understand and connect with his family, and result in not able to predict and control his sons and daughter. This is why he failed.
Undeniably my favorite character in the series. It felt like the show went down the toilet after his demise. Charles Dance literally embodied him, to the point where, if I read the books, I can only imagine his face.
Thats funny considering the Tywin went down in the toilet.
@@mrintrovert5068tyrion confirms tywin's death because of the smell after he went down, so that's your plotline right there. If only tywin did shit gold tho...
There is much to be gleaned from a face.
The books did too
That’s gross. If you read the books, you come to know that Tywin constantly humiliates women for no good reason and orders his guards to gang rape Tyrion’s wife for marrying him. Tywin watches it all like some sort of lunatic.
It’s insane to me how many people see Tywin as intelligent when he’s simply more vicious and vengeful than any other character in the story.
Tywin is worse than every single Targaryen combined into one.
The funny thing is that he fell because he ignored one Machiavellian principle--That yes, "It is better to be feared than to be loved," but Machiavelli only a few sentences later states that one should NEVER allow themselves to be hated--otherwise one's conspirators will multiply. In other words, be tough, but don't push people to the edge... as he did with Tyrion.
Not just with Tyrion. In general Tywin, with his ways, has piled up a lot of hatred under the carpet. After all, it was his fault that Dorne and the Targaryens hated the Lannisters. And the Red Wedding induced only distrust and hatred in the men of the north, not fear. So the truth is that Tywin brought the Lannisters to power but at the same time planted the seeds of their downfall. Because what he created had such weak foundations that killing it was enough to make it collapse like a house of cards.
@@Huhbroski Yeah. But the enemies considered them normal enemies of a normal war. After the Red Wedding it cemented in the minds of men of the north that those of the south are just evil tyrants who don't deserve to be treated like human beings (and it certainly also cemented in the minds of men like Varys that the cause of the Lannister is evil). And Tywin did not foresee either his own death, or that Sansa would flee, or that Bran and Rickon were still alive. Nothing went according to Tywin's plan after the Red Wedding, and in fact the Purple Wedding represents the Lannisters' moment of greatest power before life and karma began to take its toll for the immoral and dishonest things they did to get there. And it was Niccolò Machiavelli who said that a prince must be both feared and loved, that if he cannot have both he must be feared, but that he must not be hated. Because there is a difference between being feared and being hated, and you can be feared even without being hated. And Tywin never understood this, since he thought he could handle any kind of hatred, believing that his enemies would surrender because he had the arrogance to believe that he would have the upper hand forever, without understand that it is impossible.
@@Huhbroski Yes, but the people who betrayed the Starks are not normal people, but dishonest and evil to the core. And Littlefinger had already betrayed even the Lannisters too, contributing to Joffrey's murder and Sansa's escape. And Tywin actually cares somewhat about what others think of him. If you tell him you don't like him he doesn't care, but if you tell him he's not scary then he cares. And that's because when Cat took Tyrion, Tywin devastated the riverlands precisely because he wants people to be so afraid of the Lannisters that they come to consider them above the law. And if Tywin is so skilled, why did he die so humiliatingly? And the decline of the Lannisters was so rapid because he filled his house with enemies and made too much fall on himself, making everything dependent on him and he never teached to his family how to get without him. The truth is that he put his house on the razor's edge just for an easy victory where neither the unexpected nor the long-term consequences of his actions are thought about. Tywin's methods give you power and control, but at the same time they are an encouragement to turn against you in the most extreme and brutal way possible at the first moment of weakness.
@@Huhbroski It seems so to me. Because the Freys had a terrible reputation even before the Red Wedding, which is the worst thing they ever did, but not the only one. And the Boltons had always been the black sheep of the north, and their traditions had focused largely on torture and flaying. And you know that Ramsay was born because his father, when he saw a couple about to get married, killed the groom and raped the bride. And Roose Bolton precisely betrayed Robb Stark because he is a slimy and dishonest being whose oaths are worthless, given that he had not planned to betray him all along, but decided to do so on the moment. And only two extremely evil houses could carry out a plan like the Red Wedding. And Tywin also doesn't know how to think in the long term, since he believed that having allowed the murder of Elia Martell and her children would go unpunished and that Dorne would never be able to take revenge, and therefore would have surrendered. And even the fact that he died for what he did to Tysha, even though it happened years ago, is a long-term consequence, which he had never thought about (since he believed he had brought his children back into line and that if they had both forgotten about it, when instead Jaime never stopped feeling guilty about that story while Tyrion was deeply traumatized by it). And then, as I said, Tywin can't distinguish fear from hate, since it's okay to convey to your enemies that you're a dangerous guy and that if they go against you they'll end badly, but it's not okay to convey to them that you're only an evil tyrant who not deserves to be treated like a human. And Tywin didn't make a perfect decision after Tyrion's kidnapping because, since Tyrion was innocent of the crime he was accused of, all he had to do was resort to legal action to prove his innocence, and Cat would have made a fool of herself. But Tywin didn't do it because he doesn't want anyone to think that the Lannisters are also subject to the law.
@@Huhbroski This is exactly the point. Tywin is intelligent, but he misuses his intelligence, he believes that everything that is immoral, unjust and wrong in society are universal rules of life, he is immature, apathetic, and when he is wrong he never admits it (since Tyrion's successes do not 'have ever induced him to reevaluate him just because he believes that admitting a mistake is weakness).
Another point for him. He orchestrated the Red Wedding, but didn’t publicly take any part in it or actually do it. So, while clever characters like Tyrion could figure it out in the eyes of the masses Tywin’s “honor” was never besmirched. He successfully manipulated the majority of the world with that move, while still getting something he wanted.
He let the Frey and Boltons take the glory of the Red Wedding.
The suspicion that he was involved, however, is enough to make their enemies hostile. After all, the black fish certainly suspects that Tywin is involved.
It's actually doubtful that Tywin had any part in planning the Red Wedding at all. It was primarily a Frey plot with support from the Boltons and the blessing of the Lannisters. Basically, the only thing the Lannisters did was promise to pardon the Freys and Boltons after they betrayed the North, but the horrible plan was cooked up mostly by the Freys and perpetrated by the Freys and Boltons. The Lannisters are still partly to blame, since they agreed to pardon the culprits, but Tywin shouldn't get too much credit for making an incredibly easy decision.
That's bullshit He no more concealed his hand then when he sent Gregor to raid the Riverlands without any sigils. Anyone with half a brain knows that Tywin was behind it, and for those who can't see the obvious, the multiple Lannister-Frey marriages that result are going to reveal it all. Tywin HATES the Freys, and has looked down on them since he was a child. He never believed that Walder's second son was good enough to marry Tywin's sister Gemma, but now Frey's widowed & sluttiest granddaughter is a fine bride for the eldest son of his favorite brother? Kevan did not think Jeyne Westerling was good enough for his YOUNGER sons, but the Freys' family bicycle in acceptable for his heir, and to be lady of the castle his branch has been granted? Another Frey is going to be a bride for the son of the brother of Tywin's beloved wife, the same nephew he said was too good to do the foraging and dirty work of the mercenaries & thugs.
There is no way that Tywin lets two Freys marry into his family, that he gives an ancient castle of great lineage to the same man he objected to marrying his sister, unless the Freys did something huge for him or he desperately needed their help.
And are we really supposed to believe that NO ONE from that house of chucklefucks is going to let it be known that they were playing Rains of Castamere to announce the massacre?
Everyone knows. The only reason every hand is not turning against the Lannisters is that the Freys and Boltons are closer to hand. But I will bet money that Genna, any kids she has with her, and Daven and their Frey spouses are going to die in Riverrun, probably at the latter's wedding. We were not shown a Brotherhood operative taking a job in Riverrun and suggesting Jaime stay there, for no reason.
Besmirched, a fancy word for a fancy man.
This is why I loved Tywin as a character. He was always reasonable and rational. Yes, he was the villain, and yes it's fair to say that he's evil, but when you see things from his perspective, it all makes sense. He was a hard man and a ruthless leader, but he could be fair and reasonable at times. In the book, you see that he can even be judicious towards his enemies. In A Storm of Swords, he tries to tell Joffrey that *'...when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.'* I think that that line sums him up quite well as a ruler.
Tywin's method of ruling and conquering is very similar to Aegon the first. Aegon showed no mercy to his enemies, only fire and blood. But to those who bent the knee to him, he rewarded with utmost graciousness. The only thing that probably prevented Tywin from conquering the world was his lack of dragons.
I wouldn't say it all "makes sense". See his treatment of tyrion.
@@fightingmedialounge519 It's not good, and I'm not saying that Tywin is right in any way, however I understand why Tywin treats Tyrion the way that he does. Firstly, it is because of Westerosi's societal stigmas and perceptions pertaining to dwarfism. That definitely plays a role in it. However, it is also because Tywin associates that with the loss of his late and beloved wife. Tywin obviously blames Tyrion for the fact that he lost Joanna - the only person that he truly and fully loved unselfishly. Now, again, it is not right for Tywin to blame Tyrion for that, and obviously I'm not trying to justify his behaviour towards Tyrion (I actually condemn it and believe that it was despicable), but I can also understand where it comes from. It makes logical sense when you think about it through the lens of everything that Tywin has been through in his life. Tywin probably sees Tyrion as a manifestation of some curse from the gods - which would also make it more understandable why he would turn against the religion in the first place. Tywin is an atheist in the book, and also on the show, though a part of him probably fears that the whisperings are actually true and that Tyrion is a curse from the gods set down to destroy him and everything that he's tried to build. So Tywin projects a lot of fears, insecurities and blame onto Tyrion. It's not right - but I understand it.
@@thecriticalmaester9702 I never claimed you did, so that's irrelevant. Understanding why he does it and it making sense are two very different sentiments. Except nothing about that stigma advocates fathers to have their sons wife's raped. That was all tywin operating under his bruised ego. Again, I'm correcting you on the claim that everything tywin did was rational. Morality has nothing to do with it. Except logic is not predicated on personal views; quite the opposite in fact. What you're describing is his biases dictating his actions. It's only implied in the books, and in the the show he explicitly isn't an atheist considering he says he views tyrion as a punishment from the gods( he may hate God's, but that's not the same as being an atheist who doesn't believe in them). His hatred has very little to do with religious superstition and comes from his personal insecurities( such as his relationship with his father and his own faults he sees in tyrion). To say tywin is always rational and reasonable either requires you to ignore his entire relationship with tyrion, or deliberately misinterpret it to fit your treasured traits of the character.
@@fightingmedialounge519yeah, if everything he did was purely logical, then he would have relied on tyrion a whole lot more. Or he would have had him killed at birth.
While the Red Wedding ended the war quickly and made the Lannister name something to fear again, Tywin missed a point, I think. He showed it's possible to destroy an enemy family with one well-calculated strike. While some were awed by this move and fear Tywin as a result, others surely thought about employing this tactic themselves. And using it on House Lannister eventually.
Lord Tywin's methods and tactics are effective, however, it contrasts with the stellar reputation the Starks have made for themselves. The Red Wedding was a masterstroke, but it left with all of the realm with a deeper animosity for the Freys and Lannisters. It also left Westeros a little worse off than before in tiny ways. Subtle ways, where there is a permanent drop in the quality of life now that guest right has been tainted. Think stricter TSA procedures in a post-9/11 world.
Also, every gain Lord Tywin has won for House Lannister is short-lived. Now that he's dead, every ally, every rival, every enemy of House Lannister is out for blood. Control won through fear lasts as long as the fear exists. People have little to fear from a dead man. Meanwhile, in the North, there are multiple conspiracies to overthrow the Boltons and restore House Stark to power. They are still singing praises of Ned Stark and are working to rescue his children four books after his death. That is loyalty that Tywin Lannister can only dream of.
@@kagekun1198 Yes, loyalty based on fear doesn't last. This decline could have happened in the long term if Tywin lived, but his health and mentality started to fail. Or sooner when the Lannister gold started to run out.
The red wedding didn't make house Lannister feared again, it was looked at with disgust which was directed to the Frays and Bolton's because they commited the act.We as the readers know Tywin orchestrated it the realm doesn't, only rumours and gossips.
I mean as for the purple wedding it's heavily implied either Tywin had a part in it or was unbothered by it, everyone knew Joffrey had to go specifically Tywin who hated the boy who reminded him of the mad king, so I'm sure him dying to keep the Tyrells alliance even if Tywin knew they did it he would turn a blind eye. But the red wedding and purple are very different one is to swiftly end a war and one was to swiftly kill a mad king to strengthen an alliance, both of which positively benifited House Lannister. Of cause Littlefinger taking Sansa is a different story.
@@kagekun1198I have to disagree I mean people blame the red wedding on the Frays and Bolton's not the Lannister's that's why many came to Joffrey's wedding.Thats after the red wedding so it's not like they where not trusted or something.
Sure Ned has love and loyalty from his Bannerman something Tywin doesn't. But that doesn't make his efficient methods and Ned's lack of political awareness any less true. If Tywin wasn't a narcissist, controlling father and he was able to mold his children into him, the Lannister's would win the game of Thrones.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk If you want to be that pedantic, then strictly speaking, the Boltons also escaped the blame as nobody is talking about Roose Bolton being the one to personally kill Robb Stark.
Also, the main attendants of the Purple Wedding are Lannisters, Tyrells and Oberyn Martell and their assorted bannermen. All of which are mandatory invitees as they are formal allies (on paper). None of the smallfolk or non-Lannister affiliated houses attended the event. There was no invitee that did not have a stake in House Lannister.
And the contrast between Ned Stark and Tywin Lannister was the point of the post. Believe it or not, many powerful men cease to be relevant the moment they die. (See Khal Drogo for further details) What sets Ned and House Stark apart from Tywin is the goodwill that they have garnered endures past Ned's death. Sure it sucked for him to die prematurely but in the end, House Stark will outlast this disastrous time because of the support of the Northern houses they have earned.
In the show, yes. In the books, his "understanding of how the world truly operates" is warped by his inflated ego and superiority complex. Leading him to make decisions that are disastrous in both the short and long term by virtue of him underestimating the agency and power of every other faction and individual playing the game.
How so I could argue his far more impressive in the books than in the show?
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk
He loses every single battle against the North during the WoTFK (apart from against Roose) and wins the war solely because Tyrion and Littlefinger arranged a marriage alliance with the Tyrells and both the Freys and Karstarks had abandoned Robb during his return from the Westerlands. He was on the verge of total defeat and played little role in Joffery's victory.
Tywin also massively underestimates just about every single one of his rivals due to his own superiority complex. He deluded himself into believing that Tyrion could just waltz into the North and the Northern lesser houses would just accept it being a Lannister ruled province because Tywin had forced Sansa and Tyrion to marry.
He convinced himself that the Tyrells would just accept being repeatedly undermined despite the massive amount of leverage they had over the crown and that they would just accept Cersei marrying Willas of Highgarden, Jaime marrying Margaery and believed that they were little more than lackies. And he would face no consequences for this belief.
For all his idle bickering over legacy, he manages to completely destroy his relationship with all three of his children. He disowns Jaime when Jaime refused to eject himself from the Kingsguard and marry Margaery (a plan that would never have worked since Mace Tyrell wanted her to be queen, not some Lannister lady). He makes Tyrion's life a living hell - a move that turns out to be *literally* suicidal. He also admits he sees Cersei as little more than a breeding machine - a mentality she has internalised and herself become an incredibly selfish, miserable and scheming individual who isn't as clever as she thinks she is.
Overall, Tywin was by no means a tactically incompetent person (see what happened to the Reynes and Tarbecks). But he was an absolutely terrible judge of character and this is primarily due to his enormous superiority complex.
@@AdamNoizer He loses every battle against the Northerners in the war, true but Lord Tywin isn't really portrayed as a great general more off a political mastermind
Wins the war solely because Littlefinger and Tyrion arranged a marriage with the Tyrrell's??? Firstly how does this win them the war? Secondly do you really think Tywin would be unable to realise the Tyrrell's could be ally's, I mean throughout his life he's been making matches for his sons and daughters. Tywin came up with the red wedding he caused the Frays and Bolton's to betray the Starks. Tyrion was ordered by Tywin to make sure the small council was loyal to the crown which led to Tyrion making that arrangement with Littlefinger.
Read chapter 53 SOS Tywin actually planned for the Stark loyalists to fight the Bolton's and Greyjoys, and when thier all weakened he would declare Tyrion and Sansa's son as Lord of Winterfell as he would be the only living Stark aside from Jon I suppose. Tywin was planning on taking the North by force if it came to that. I knew Tywin wanted Cersei to marry Willa's which is honestly not that far fetched especially considering he had other choices and when Mace Tyrell denied him he reacted calmly and in a understanding manner, I don't think he had a infuriaty complex and if he did he didn't make stupid decisions because of it. But he intended for Jamie to marry Mergeery???? That would be crazy what chapter
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk
The marriage alliance with the Tyrells wins them the war because it adds another eighty thousand men to Joffery's army and is the reason Stannis lost at the Battle of Blackwater. The Red Wedding was not what defeated Robb Stark. Robb Stark lost the war when half of his army (the Karstarks and the Freys) deserted him en masse during his return from the Westerlands. By the time of the Red Wedding, Robb had been forced to abandon all of his gains in the war and return North to retake his kingdom from the Ironborn. Tywin's orchestration of the Red Wedding was essentially just the killing blow after Robb had already lost.
Which "Stark Loyalists" would bend the knee to Tyrion Lannister as Lord of Winterfell? Sure, they may recognise Sansa but that's about it. Expecting Stark Loyalists to bend the knee to the Iron Throne after Joffery murdered Ned is crazy enough, but the North bending the knee to a Lannister Warden of the North is pure fantasy. Tywin believing he could simply "take the north by force" is delusional. He correctly assess that the Boltons would be unable to do this because of its size and decentralisation, but believes that he would be somehow free from such limitations.
In summary, Tywin was a fairly competent politician, an average military commander and an absolutely poor judge of character.
*Edit:* Per your question, he demanded that Jaime renounce his position as LC of the Kingsguard and suggested he marry Margaery in ASOS Jaime VII.
@@AdamNoizer But you fail to realise the reason the Frays left the Starks course because Robb broke his oath when he married Jeyne which Tywin and Sybelle Spicer where conspiring together about to lose him the alliance with the Frays and to make sure Tyrion get's Winterfell, and he was already conspiring with Roose at the time and I believe even without the red wedding they would have found another way to kill Robb, so the fact that Tywin is the reason Roose and Walder even want to betray Robb is enough to say he orchestrated it.
"Which Stark loyalists would bend the knee" they wouldn't have a choice and if Tywins plan of attacking at thier weakest they would literally be destroyed if they fought back, the Lannister's combined with the Tyrrell's have 90 000 man in King's Landing alone.
Tywin does not believe in honour or any type of morality like he told Wayman Manderly they should bend the knee or end up like the rain's of castemere.
Tywin isn't a poor Judge of character he just wants things to go his way all the time, his description of characters like Roose Bolton, Tyrion, Oberyn, Robb, Joffrey and Doran are extremely accurate. I mean I just read the chapter and it's not like Tywin is demanding for Jamie to marry Mageery he offered it as a suggestion, if Mace Tyrell refused he wouldn't he would probably understand same way he reacted when they refused the Cersei and Willa's I'd he's more opportunistic than having a inferiority complex because if he did he would find Mace denying his proposal as an insult
You missed Tywins greatest victory.
When he put down a rebellion by sending a musician to play the rains of castamere.
Not only did he put down the rebellion, and made the rebelious lord submit...
-He did it without a drop of blood spilled on either side.
-He saved the lives of his troops, but also the lives of the rebellious lord's troops, which also happen to be lannister troops if he ever needs to call their banners.
-He also saved money by not having to mount a full military campaign.
-He prevented commerce from being interrupted since armies are composed mostly of common folk.
-Whatever plans he had at the time didnt get derailed by a war.
-he won the respect and fear of the realm.
-His house name was greatly improved by the tactic
-And he won a subservient lord who wont dare cross him in the future.
Not just that, It would be impossible to gather enough military and financial support after word spread of what happened. The lord's bannermen would not heed his call knowing the danger involved, and his ravens would be left on "read"
This is a great victory in my book, as well ans in sun tzu's book, the art of war.
Super power move
Exact. And this is because that lord was not only afraid of him, but he TRUSTED him. He trusted that Tywin had the resources and the mind to carry out his threat to him, and he trusted that he would leave him alone if he submitted. What do you think he would have done if he thought Tywin would still kill him and his entire family even if he surrendered?
@@lavellelee5734 But Otto high tower was far better and succeded in places where Tywin failed that too in a more difficult circumstance where odds weren't in his favour in comparison to tywin .
"a dozen at dinner"
My brother you slaugthered the whole army and nobles you didnt just kill a dozen
I think he was referring to the morality of it, most people call it dishounarable because they where killed in a wedding when they where given guest rights. But those same people wouldn't have a problem with more than that on the battlefield. I think the main point he was making was that death is death.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk No he was genuinely deluding himself.
Ther eis NO morality in what he did. And turned the war of the Five Kings into something close toa war of GODS.
Like WHY people keep ignoring that Magic is real?
A Brazilian saying: Independente irmão.
@@facundogonza5740 "deluding himself" magic isn't a common thing in the Westeros world you only think it is because you're looking at it from a reader's perspective, but it's crazy to think a guy as pragmatic as Tywin would believe in such.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk And that costs him everything.
Charles Dance was phenomenal...
The only ever true failing Tywin had was never being able to separate his work and ideology from his personal life and relationship with his family. Ultimately Tywin has isolated himself from everyone that COULD love and care for him but because he has to remain as the almighty Lord of the Westerlands he died and his family imploded soon after
This is my perspective of his character too a man who was worried too much on perseption rather than his actual family and if you look at his entire life this has been biting him for years.Tywin didn't care about his actual family at all he only cared about legacy so he uses them as pawns and wants them to be like him without any emotional attachments. But as soon as he dies we see his family's legacy was all a lie, it was his legacy that was good not the family's everyone feared and respected him not his family. Though he did leave his family in a relatively safe spot before he died they where not capable enough to hold it because of him. The Targaryens ruled with fear and formed a dynasty because they had dragons to keep that fear while the Lannister have that fear and respect because of Tywins competence as a lord something he failed to mold in his children due to his tyrannical way of raising them.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk But the Targaryens continued to reign for many years even after losing the dragons. And this is because they were both feared and loved. The Lannisters with Tywin were only feared, but they were also hated. This is why their decline has been so rapid. Tywin may have brought the Lannisters to power, but at the same time he planted the seeds of their downfall.
But Tywin's view came back to bite the lannisters in a big way
Both Tywin and Ned were only half-right
You can't rull the smallfolks with only fear or with only honor either
Tywin rules with ironfists, smallfolks were terrified of them
But while people in westeros recognize their power, but no one likes them
The Lannisters are as powerful as their gold would last
The moment they show weakness, they'll become vulnerable
Meanwhile, the starks honor and affection from the others, is why so many plans are put in action to restore a Stark in power
Well, Tywin while really ruthless he actually treat anyone who serve him graciously and reward them for their contribution, he also not sadistic who will kill anyone who fail at their mission or not meet his standard. The reason why he can make his house strong (trusted by many Lords) and prosperous. Even also made the Westeros prosperous and reach the golden age when he become the Hand of the King. The issue with Tywin is, just don't be his enemy or stand on his way, and he also a bad a father for their children basically the first step of his house destruction.
And then they betrayed the Starks.
"Casterly Rock does not suffer betrayals, not since Tywin Lannister was old enough to go to war."
@@georgeprchal3924Mainly the Boltons, Ryswells, part Umbers and part Karstarks
Rest of them are still loyal to the Starks and absolutely hate the Boltons for betraying them
@@ilphi08 Bolton it's basically a rival house in the north for Stark for a many centuries before GoT. They basically second powerful house after Stark, and only follow Stark when it's safer options. But since Stark become weak the longer war progress. Then yes they very likely will take the chance to take over Stark position.
@@Ilyas-ty6cy My point was, Most of the northern lords besides the boltons love the starks not because the starks were the most powerful house
But the same can be said about the lannisters
Lords in the westerlands obey Tywin not because they love the lannisters, it was because the lannisters were the most powerful and the most ruthless house
But if there comes a day, when the lannisters show weakness and no longer as powerful, westerlands would react opposite to the northern lords
Westerlands lords are as loyal to house lannister as the degree they are powerful
Basically Tywin had it all figured out...except for his children, especially Tyrion. That was his achilles heel.
Tywin's absolute mistreatement of Tyrion, purely for blaming the sad misfortune of Joanna dying during Tyrion's birth, and the 'little Lion's misformed body made Tywin blínd to Tyrion's actual potential and intelligence?
Tyrion knéw he wouldnt ever be a great fighter like Jaime, and as 2nd Son, also not lord of Casterly Rock, thus Tyrion realized he had to be good at other things: Politics, reading people and understanding the world! Tyrion knew he always had a general disadvantage, thus Tyrion read, and learned to creáte himself an advantage towards those who héld that general advantage: Knowledge, to expand his intelligence!
Tyrion, at a fairly young age, did an excellent job as Acting Hand, in Tywin's absense.. yet instead of realizing Tyrion's value, Tywin picked on the one slight he could pin on Tyrion: 'he brought a whore into the Tower of the Hand"... Not how Tyrion just danced around the Small Counsil and held them in an Iron Grasp, not his brílliant planning in defending the Capitol against Stannis...gréat features!! No that insignificant slight about f*cking a whore... A meaningless blame vs the great achievements Tyrion made, when 'being thrown before the lions' in King's Landing's politics.
Even if Tyrion hadent brought Shay, or even laid with a single woman in his time as Acting Hand, Tywin would have found sómething to slight and blame Tyrion of, isntead of actually giving him praise....
Tywin's mockery to Tyrion, after the battle of 'jugglers and singers need applause'....Tyrion didnt care for applause or praise from the commoners: 'a Lion doesnt concern himself with the opinion of the sheep'.. No Tyrion had expected a bit more respect or reckognition from the person that mattered to him: his Father, Tywin! Actually the one man that mattered MOST in Westeros! Tywin didnt give Tyrion any credit at all... yet without Tyrion...any other 'acting Hand', would it have been Tywin's brother Kevan, or his son Jaime: neither would have come up with that Wildfire-bombboat...From all the 'capable rulers' in the Westerlands, none could measure up against Tywin...except one: Tyrion!
That was Tywins gréatest mistake
@@thegreenreaper6660 you described it perfectly. Tyrion was completely screwed over by almost everyone, but most of all his own father. This did ultimately cause Tywin's ultimate downfall - causing the most feared man in Westeros to die a most humiliating death on a toilet.
I admit I do have mixed feelings about the show, but I absolutely love Tywin Lannister's character. Fiercely intelligent, calculating, ruthless and intimidating. And I take my hat off to Charles Dance for his phenomenal portrayal of the character. That man should take a bow
Brilliant video, the comments have been a blast to read as well. Also, can we all just acknowledge how perfect Charles Dance was for the role of Tywin on the show? His time on Thrones was considered peak adaptation of a source material its like he brought some of Tywin's perfection to the show, it declined after he left, among other reasons. GRRM used Tywin as a proxy to just do the most major story propelling actions across atleast half of everything he's written so far. His death directly leads to the coming of chaos in the realm, you could argue that if he hadn't died literally nothing that happened to the Realm afterwards would have. A one-man powerhouse holding the realm down through sheer will and ruthlessness. One of the most compelling characters ever conceived, period.
When it comes to playing the game of thrones Tywin was one of if not the best at it.
Till the last seasons 😂😂😂
@@24framedavinci13 if he didn't have to look after his idiot grown adult kids. He would've been good to go, lol.
Nah Otto High Tower was the best in that regards who defied all odds and ruled from the iron throne throwing orders against Targaryen prince and princess like a champ !!! And successfully making his daughter as a queen during the time when targaryans had dragons and were in peak of their powers after king jaheryes rule !!!
Tywin is baby in comparison to guy like him though !!!
@@sameersheriff7078 oh forsure man. I wasn't really taking house of the dragon into consideration when I wrote that comment. You are correct tho good sir! I agree.
Tywin was a true genius, easily my favorite character in the entire show
Too bad he was immature, apathetic, superficial, and never thought about the unexpected and long-term consequences of his actions.
@@lpallad1 he did, thats why he forged alliances and spared those who rebelled in the war of the 5 kings. His untimely death lead to cersei taking power which drove everything to shit, but tywin would never have allowed such an idiot to take control. He knew what he had in jaime and kevan, if jaime had taken over as the head of house lannister house lannister would have continued it's legacy. A legacy that never wouldve been restored if it wasnt for tywin
@@dawn1424 Too bad that if Cersei took control and didn't know what to do it was Tywin's fault because he didn't raise her better (since the only thing he taught her is that since she is a Lannister she is above any law and all non-Lannisters are just inferior beings to be crushed under her foot). Because Tywin never taught his family to get along without him. And Tywin died as a result of something he did. And what actually happened is that his death left his family at the mercy of the consequences of his actions. After all, whose fault is it that Dorne hates the Lannisters? Whose fault is it that the North and the Riverlands hate the Lannisters? Then it was he who filled the court with traitors, turncoats, and people who bowed to him with gnashed teeth. What he actually did was put his family in the spotlight, but without him they got burned. To put his family on the throne he filled it with enemies who did not hesitate to take advantage of his death to take revenge for the suffering he inflicted on them, and some of them would have moved even if he had still been alive. What the Purple Wedding represents is in fact the moment of maximum power of the Lannisters before life and Karma begin to take the toll for all the dishonest and immoral things they have done to get there.
But overall in GOT I prefer Otto Hightower to be better in every regards !!!
Arya: "Have you ever lost before?"
Tywin: "Is my name Tylose Lannister?"
I'm not a fan of tywin but I have to admit it's hard to not respect him for what he achieved in his life.
Big fan of Tywin here. He is the most realistic “bad guy” ever portrayed in media. His own house was on the brink of collapse because of his father but he saved it and Post Targaryen overthrow returned the realm to peace as well so it’s not like he’s even a bad ruler. Can be a huge asshole but generally does well for everyone close to him (except Tyrion lol)
I find ironic everything he achieved in his long life is going to be quickly ruined by his 3 children
@@MiguelLopez-yc2rhThe three children that HE failed to raise.
Too bad he neglected his kids so bad their daddy issues drive all he did to ruin.
@@TheDONing1 Which means his biggest failure will ruin all his great achievements.
Karma is a bitch
You know a character is fascinating when even after doing the most cruel and disgusting things imaginable people still like them. Tywin is probably my favorite character, i hate his actions but I love him as a character and a player of the game of thrones. ❤🦁
The scariest character in a series that contains Dragons and Zombies
Faxxtsss😂😂😂
Tywyn, Little Finger and Varys are my favorite characters in the franchise. Through scheming and strategy they achieve what some others try with brute force or old traditions. But while Tywyn ultimately to his own weak spot, which was underestimating Tyrion, the other two fell prey to writers who just didn't understand (or respect) subterfuge and intricate games of power.
All three of them were just too smart for D&D to handle.
I wish Tywin & Tyrion could team up, they would be unstoppable...
No tyrion is useless
Machievellianism isn't just about ambition, but also a fundemental understanding of order.
Being complacent, misguided or overly symphatetic as a ruler can have severe consequences that costs the people you are ruling
The fact that after his death, his house went to the drain. He was the sole person who was holding his family's name and legacy, people actually feared HIM more than his house. Tywin actually evolved more than his house, yes he made a mistake regarding Tyrion which led to his demise, but he was so egoistical that he never imagined his son would actually have the balls to shoot him. But, he never defamed anyone from his house in front of other people. He called Tyrion so many bad things all alone, but there was a deleted scene, a conversation between Tywin and Grand Maester Pycelle. Where Pycelle said some bad stuff about Tyrion and Tywin instantly sided with his son and defended him, shutting Pycelle then and there. Such a beautifully written character, so gray yet so morally correct in his own twisted ways.
Closest anyone came to "winning" the Game. He was almost there, on the cusp, but he couldn't set aside his hatred for Tyrion.
Technically he is partly responsible for what happened after his death. it's his fault that the north hated the south after the red wedding, it's his fault that Dorne hated the Lannisters, and he, by putting his family on the throne, made them a target of many enemies, precisely because it was also Tywin who filled the court with traitors, turncoats, and people who bowing to him with gnashin teeth. His victory was only an appearance, and what he had created had foundations too weak to last. As Ultron say, Tywin confusing peace with quiet.
Bronn is the winner. Started as a mercenary and ends up one of the most powerful lords.
Despite his ruthlessness, his years as hand of the king were very prosperous for the realm, and relatively peaceful, with small rebellions and wars that were quickly dealt with.
Already. But when he managed to put his daughter on the throne, things went terribly wrong. And in fact, as Ultron would say, Tywin confuses peace with quiet.
His interaction with Arya shows a once softer side that briefly emerged but almost always buried. What happened to him and his wife in relation to the Mad King really darkened his heart to the world.
Tywin controlled Westeros due to some circumstances he also was involved in:
1. No strong royal power: Robert was not a good King and everyone knew it. As was Aerys. A strong King would have leashed Tywin and this never happened without a good strong candidate. Rhaegar may have been able to, but who knows.
2. Use of intimidation: like the Targaryen with their dragons the old lion used intimidation to get his way and did this by extinguishing 2 strong and ancient houses in the Westerlands. After the Reynes and Tarbecks no one could stand up to him due to fear
3. Cersei: without her he wouldnt have so much influence on Robert and the capital. He had no seat in the council so he needed to rely on Cersei
He also set up his house to fail in the long run.
1 A strong king wouldn't have leashed Tywin a strong king would realize his wisdom and cunning to maintain peace and to better the realm like the 20 years he caused during Aerys reign instead of being jealous why not utilize your servents strengths? People don't realize every atrocities Tywin made he was never the aggressor it was always his enemies or family.
3 It was because of Tywin Cersei became queen his decision to kill the Targaryan children for Robert made them royalty.
He did perfectly set his house up for failure for a guy that pragmatic and smart you would think he'd be smart enough to realize he won't be alive forever and actually focus on the people that will carry on his legacy 😂
@@sylvesterlukoto1437 Already. Because Tywin never thought about the contingencies and long-term consequences of his actions. And he filled his house with enemies who did not hesitate to take advantage of his death. Under Tywin's policies men like Gregor Clegane, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton always go unpunished.
I’d say he set his house up to succeed but his kids botched it
@@bigpictureguys8415 And it also happened because he has always been a terrible father. And then he never knew how to understand the difference between fear and hate.
Machiavelli teaches good princes how to hold onto their power in order to not let evil ones rule. He realized that evil always have an advantage because they employ unrestricted tactics.
Finally a good comment.
Machiavelli technically also said that a prince must be both feared and loved, that if he cannot be both he must be feared, but that he must not make himself hated. Because there is a difference between being feared and being hated, and that one can be feared even without being hated. However, Tywin broke this rule because he is apathetic, immature, superficial, and has never been able to understand the difference between fear and hate.
7:34 only mistake you made, presidents don’t prioritize their country’s interests, they prioritize their owners interests
Which is the people of their country.
@@birdstwin1186 in theory. That’s how it was designed to operate. In practice they’re beholden to big money/corporations. If you don’t see that I don’t know what to tell you.
Best analysis of Tywin I've ever heard. Couldn't agree more.
I like that the Tyrells managed to achieve success without people being threatened and (openly) hating them. No doubt they're every bit Macchiavelian as Tywin but they found a middle ground where they can operate while maintaining good PR.
I think that has to do with them having capable children while Tywin keeps getting dragged into Unwin able conflicts by his children where he is forced to employ these cruel things.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jkIf Joanna had lived the Lannister kids would have 200 iq each. But that's exactly why she had to die
@@arunakoyanbron8927 exactly the seeds of house Lannister's doom was right after she died, not only did Tywin become cold and emotionless towards his family according to Genna, Cersei and Gerion, it also left the Lannister children without a mother for emotional and personal support. This is made pretty obvious when Jaime reveals that Joana found out and tried to stop thier incestuous relationship, imagine if she was alive how many things could have been prevented. No mother would allow thier kids hating each other imagine the Lannister's working together as the Tyrells do Cersei's ruthlessness and dedication to family, Tyrions political cunning and Jaime's battle talent would made for a great generation for house Lannister.
@@MphoLukoto-lx9jk Yeah. The mistakes Tywin made were being a terrible father and not knowing the difference between fear and hate. This ruin the Lannister.
One of the greatest performances for one of the greatest character of all time. Charles Dance was amazing
Agreed. To write such a character in a script is one thing. But the way Charles Dance brought that character to life, in such an astonishing way; Every single scene he was in, he OWNED it! HE Was the centerpoint, évery single thing went EXACTLY as Tywin Lannister wanted, and the whole manner of how Charles Dance portrayed thát intimidating authority, was just a pure masterclass!
From the introduction: skinning a Stag(wonderful symbolism!), or climbing the steps to the Iron Throne, and make that little shit of a Goffrey, crawl away in that chair out of FEAR for Tywin, to literally 'sending the most powerful man in Westeros, to bed without his supper'... Even the viewers would get a bit intimidated by such a character... You would start to háte Tywin for being such a ruthless man, but you understood his motives and respected it!
To portray such a huge character, in such a way is just an enormous skill!
@@thegreenreaper6660 Technically not everything went the way Tywin wanted, because he didn't want Sansa to escape, for Tyrion to kill him, and for what he created to end with his death. He wanted the Lannister rule to last for centuries, but he failed in this regard.
IIRC Machiavelli also said something like you should try not to be hated too much or it's.going to bite you in the ass...exactly what happened to Tywin.
Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei: Are you ashamed of us?
Tywin: Very!
Them: So what's more important? Us or legacy?
Tywin: Legacy!
Jaime: Ouch.
Tyrion: He didn't even need think about it.
Cersei: No he did not.
The problem with Tywin is that he never understood that the methods he used to achieve power (betrayal, breaking of tradition, murder, etc) could also be used against him.
Tywin thought he could break every rule to become a ruler, and then everyone would just go back to following the rules once he was in charge.
Nope. Once you break the rules (honor, tradition, etc), then no one else will follow them.
People may disagree but to me GoT was the best when Tywin was still alive
Tywin Was Unbeatable. His Only Flaw Was Not Killing Tyrion On The Day He Was Born.
No instead. If he had killed Tyrion, he would not have won the Battle of the Blackwater. His mistake was that he should have treated him with love and respect and helped him realize his potential.
I dont understand the idolization of Tywin, sure he achieved great power but the way he operated essentially created the collapse of his entire house. Everything he achieved crumbles with his death because when you rule from fear that power ceases to exist after your death. But the Starks ruled through respect, and in the books after they're essentially wiped out they still have vassals plotting to put them back into power.
Tywin is pretty much Princess Leia's warning of, "The together you grip the more people slip through your fingers" come to life.
Every thing he did worked SHORT-TERM.
In the end, he died on the shitter, leaving behind two incestuous half-wits and a resentful son as his legacy. He burned every bridge he had so he could build a house on sand.
@@randomcenturion7264 Real. This is because Tywin was a terrible father who raised his children poorly, was immature, apathetic and superficial, never thought about the long-term consequences of what he did, and thought so much about the family's political position that he ignored any other needs. He always underestimated the hatred and resentment of his enemies and the gravity and horror of what he did. And in fact the Purple Wedding represents the moment of maximum power of the Lannisters before life and karma begin to take the toll for everything they have done.
In a gentler time/life perhaps he could have been as successful without being ruthless.
He is the kind of person whom adapts to the world he is in.
I'd like to watch more about Tywin from you please 🙏 🎉🎉😂😂❤❤❤
Why not??
@@ValaritasYT you make Tyrion sound like such a problem, but then don't explain why Tywin never killed him. It's not like he couldn't afford it.
It's mostly from Tywin's perspective + he already said it in the show why he didn't kill him. @HisameArtwork
An audio book of Robert Greene's "The 48 Laws of Power", narrated by Charles Dance as Tywin, would be beyond awesome.
Tywin also hated Tyrion because Tyrion represented the real Tywin not the symbol he had carefully cultivated over his life. Tywin’s father slept with commoner women and even bought them jewelry, Tyrion does this and in the climatic final scene he is in Tywin has slept with Shae whilst having Shae rock his chain of office. The guy lived in shame behind closed doors and probably hated Tyrion for daring to live a life true to himself, consorting with commoners and even bedding them.
I still subscribe to the theory that Tyrion wasn't Twin's son, but was the result of Aerys rape of Joanna. Tywin couldn't admit that Tyrion wasn't his son without also pretty much telling everyone what happened to Joanna, which he would have considered to be disgraceful to Joanna's memory, and that is where his resentment comes from.
Tywin would never continue as hand of the king, if Aerys dared do anything of such.
He ruthlessly understood the grand scale of things perfectly, but he misunderstood the most basic of human bonds between child and parents.
It was bolted into him eventually, while doing one of the most basic needs.
The ends justify the means. It's not a belief, it's an observation. If you win, you can write the history.
Not always. After all, Spartacus and Guy Fawkes lost, but history still remembers them as heroes fighting a corrupt system, not as criminals. And that saying doesn't even apply because Tywin's give positions of power to corrupt, evil, dishonest, and untrustworthy men.
first time i see someone uses music in a fun and useful way.
Machiavelli, historically, was not a proponent of what we now call "machiavellianism". His writings are a critique to show how cutthroat tactics lead bad people to rise to powet while the virtuous shoot themselves in the leg. His solution is not ruthlessness but a calculated politics based on virtue and understanding of intrigue
Yeah. Because Tywin broke one of Machiavelli's rules. The latter had said that a prince must be both feared and loved, that if he cannot have both he must be feared, but that he must not make himself hated, because there is a difference between being feared and being hated, and one can be feared even without being hated. Tywin has never known the difference between fear and hate.
Great video! I can’t say I wholly agree with the concluding remark on how presidents today prioritize on what’s best for the country, as it seems to me most of them prioritize on what’s best for the special interest groups that support his position (lobbies, political flank their party is rooted, etc.)
I don't get if Tywin was that ruthless and his current children were "disappointing". Why did he never remarry and make more potential heirs?
Line of succession
u should never have childrean i am serious.
@@aaad3552neither should you lol you can’t even spell children correctly
How ironic that Niccolo Machiavelli quote in the opening fits Tywin perfectly. To his family he appears a true leader,to us intelligent and ruthless this thanks to Charles Dance stellar performance,to the realm he is a tyrant with out a crown and a lannister Maegor. In truth deep down behind the "lion doesn't concern himself with the opinion of the sheep" facade there is still the insecure little boy still feeling and suffering the shame and weakness brought to his family by his meek and mediocre father. A boy who whenever he hears laughs any laughs be it kindhearted or for a joke he only hears the laughs from the other noble families and lowborn to his family as a joke. And he is so desperate at this that to remove this laughs he responds to any thing that might threat the family name with unneccessary brutal and bloody force. Not even his family are spared from this response. This comes to bite him back as his own son kills him in his privy while taking a shit and not only the north but also alf of the realm want the lannisters gone. By trying to undo what his father did which he did with the rains of castamere he achieved the opposite of what he was trying to accomplish.
3:02 You CANT read the full machiavelli quote and then STILL go with interpertation that it is always better to rule with fear...machiavelli was saying you need both
3:21
@@ValaritasYT Ah apologies I see it so much a jumped the gun
@@ValaritasYT However, Machiavelli also said that one can be feared even without being hated, that there is a difference between being feared and being hated, and that a true prince must not make himself hated. Tywin on the other hand has make accumulate a lot of hate under the rug with some of his actions, hate that it exploded with his death.
Machiavellianism isn’t just about who the best cameras. The prince is also a guide on how to deal with certain situations and different types of people.
In hell Tywin Lannister is furious and very angry. His golden son and daughter are dead. The son whom he hated and murdered was the hand of the king and the Lord of Casterly Rock. The family he thinks he wiped out from the world rules the seven kingdoms.
Hopefully none of those things happen in the books.
@@georgeprchal3924 Well Cersei at the least is absolutely dying. Though I'm betting my money on all three of them biting it.
@@bookswithike3256 hopefully Jaime realizes his dreams and strangles her.
I feel his biggest failure was how distant he was in raising his grandchildren. He didn’t get Jaime to quit after 15 years of beings a kings guard.
I gotta disagree with your conclusion at the end because ultimately he did everything just feed his own pride and arrogance.
Plus his lack of empathy ultimately made all of his effort be in vain as he broke his children who were supposed to inherit his legacy.
He was both a great and horrible noble for all of the reasons you listed.
Tywin was my favorite character. His control of power grew by simply knowing how to manipulate The world. Recognizing weaknesses and flaws and exploiting them was his gift.
Tywin is a sociopath. That gave him an upper hand in many conflicts which non-sociopathic people. In the end, it's the ability to make yourself numb to other people's suffering that allows you to ascend the social ladder.
But at the same time it is the cause of your downfall, because the truth is that Tywin did many dishonest and immoral things to bring the Lannisters to power, never thinking about the long-term consequences or the risks he faced if something went wrong. And in fact the defeat of the Lannisters is the definitive consequence of his actions, because he put his family in the spotlight, but without him they got burned. Because he thought so much about the family's political position that he ignored any other needs and wants of the family.
@@lpallad1 But there was small chance of Tyrion passing by Tywin's privy that night. If it wasn't for that, Tyrion would have been dead and Tywin a big boss kicking asses around
@@pushista9322 That was Karma, and his death was a consequence of what he did. And anyway there are enemies who would have moved anyway, even if Tywin had been alive, and his death was just an unexpected stroke of luck for them.
@@lpallad1 GRRM doesn't have the concept of karma in his books.
@@pushista9322 I would say yes. After all, Joffrey died after everything he did, and having deluded himself into thinking he was invincible and unpunished. Then Martin himself said that actions have consequences, regardless of whether the people who perform them are good or bad.
If Tywin’s priority truly was to make an enduring legacy, then he totally failed. He knew how to get short-term solutions and that’s about it. You can’t kill ALL of your problems.
Yep, just like the red wedding, it may have ended the war outright but those who survived or heard about it never forgot the crime
@@Alan-wj5zc Yeah. Tywin with that crime did not inspire fear and awe but mistrust and hatred. And even if he won THAT war he still destroyed any possibility of diplomacy for any future war with the north.
I would like him to be my grandfather and teach me how to rule
Tywin is my favorite character in the show 🖤
This video was my introduction to your channel and have gone down the content rabbit hole. Good stuff brother 🤝🏾
Welcome aboard!
This video is exactly what Tywin wants you to think. It is not true.
Tywin was extremely emotional, and he was driven by emotion to an extreme degree. He adopted his counterproductive strategy of fear-mongering because of his shame and embarrassment over his father, and his inability to cope with being laughed at or thought less. EVERYTHING Tywin did was about his ego, and NOT House Lannister. If he had prioritized the good of the family, he'd have, for one thing, remarried, especially after Jaime was taken to the Kingsguard and he was unable to accept his remaining son as his heir. He also had a need for allies, but his refusal to marry closed off that method to obtaining them.
Tywin also got very lucky throughout his career. The massacre of the Reynes and Tarbecks was a war crime, and he was only the heir to Casterly Rock, having no legal authority to act as he did. He got lucky because the king was weak and sickly and died not long after the massacre, to be replaced by Aerys who was Tywin's best friend and notably unconcerned with the rights or lives of his subject lords, so Tywin got away with his crimes scot free. He pissed away the good will of King Aerys with his pride as Hand and his plots against the king, he failed to make any alliances with other Great Houses, and only managed to marry his daughter to the king because his first fiancee happened to die.
Because of the reputation Tywin garnered, Ned was always ready to believe the worst of him, and moved at every turn to check or curtail the power and influence of House Lannister. He was primed to believe the lies or hints of Lannister wrongdoing passed on by Varys and Littlefinger Because the Starks were willing to believe the worst of Tywin and his family, Catelyn ended up arresting Tyrion on false evidence, and might have got him killed at Lysa's hands or by the mountain clans.
When the War of Five Kings began, Tywin benefited from enormous strokes of luck that had nothing to do with his reputation or skill, from events that he did nothing to arrange or bring about. He started the war alone, fighting without allies, and survived to see his grandson on the Iron Throne as long as he did entirely because of events outside his control.
- Tywin got lucky that Robert never learned that he had defied his ruling that the Starks and Lannisters cease their conflict. Had Robert not been away from court, he'd have been forced to demand answers for that insult.
- He got lucky that Robert died before learning that Tywin had attacked men carrying the royal banner, on the business of the Iron Throne. Had Robert survived his hunting trip, the Lannisters would be facing a united Westeros.
- He got lucky that when he attacked the Tullys, their allies were distracted, and he did not have to face the Arryns as well, or the Starks under Ned, much less the Baratheons, who would not have claimed the throne without Tully aid.
- He got lucky that the Baratheon brothers fought each other, when the Lannisters were their common enemy, and both of them needed Joffrey out of the way to claim the throne themselves.
- Finally, Tywin got lucky that Balon Greyjoy decided to attack the one king who was amenable to his dreams of ruling his own lands as a king, and that he did so without any agreement or promise on Tywin's part, basically giving the Lannisters a free army, that would fight the Starks and inflict damage at no cost to the throne.
Meanwhile the allies Tywin used to get to an apparent victory were weak reeds and serpents in his bosom. He is forced to heavily reward the Freys he despised, and the Boltons who are not impressed by his power. He has to raise Littlefinger to the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and Lord of a once-royal castle, and give him a free hand in the Vale, and the means to carry out his treacherous agenda with the end goal of raising a rival power bloc under himself.
Finally, there are the Tyrells, who kick off their alliance making heavy demands of lands, castles, Small Council seats and tax breaks for themselves and Mace's closest friends. After all the casualties the Lannisters have taken from the Tullys and Starks, their military is depleted and they NEED the Tyrells, and have to make massive concessions.
- Mace can insult royal authority by saying that the king's guests and his fellow councilor may not cross his lands coming to court
- Tywin cannot prevent the Martells from replacing the Grandmaester with one of their kin or snatching up Sansa's claim to Winterfell via marriage, all he can do is stick in his own poor substitutes and pretend he didn't know he was balking them.
- He admits to Jaime that he can't make a marriage pact with House Martell without Mace's permission. - He has to swallow the rejection of Cersei as a bride for Mace's heir, and the deliberate insults Olenna intends they hear.
- Finally, he had to turn over Tyrion's council seat to a Tyrell. The Tyrells poisoned his grandson, framed his son, and then made fresh demands on Tywin in recompense for Tyrion's crimes!
People like to say that his children piss away the power structure he built, but it was Tywin who trained them, Tywin who raised them, and it is Tywin they try to emulate. It's not that they are not as smart as he is, or too emotional or driven by their appetites or passions, it's that they are not lucky. Jaime and Cersei are not the unworthy heirs who are squandering the fortune their father amassed, they are the kids who are expecting an enormous inheritance, but are instead being presented with all the part-due bills their father ran up pursuing vanity projects.
one true king of seven kingdoms! his misfortune was there was not smart enough people except for Tyrion.
I think Machiavelli is a little mythologized as a sociopathic political thinker. He was a republican (small r) and makes a point of saying that it is beneficial for a prince to be feared but should avoid being hated. Fear brings compliance while hatred brings revenge.
Exact. Tywin never understood the difference between fear and hate.
GOT made me realize that while House Lannister are in a way at their weakest in history. Tywin’s Father almost ruined the house, their mines are depleted and their only future was to secure the throne.
However Tywin made the best of every situation. He got the results however his children could not maintain the power he had build up and needed to keep enemies at bay
Though GoT is not history, the way it has portrayed power, violence, royalty and kingship is very historical.
Ancient and mediaeval ages were the times when politics and violence must have to go hand in hand for the continuity of power. Violence during this period was intrinsically linked to kingship.
Just like Machiavelli, Chanakya from India wrote a political and economic doctrine titled 'Arthashastra'. This book highlights assassinations as legitimate options for the kings.
If we take some examples from history, most kings had both good and bad images. They were seen as good in their own homeland for the development and progress he made, and were considered evil in the places he conquered. Historical figures are often multifaceted, so is Tywin Lannister.
Every character from GoT was inspired by history.
People often leave out the last part of Machiavelli’s quote ‘but never hated’
The subtleties and nuances of ‘the prince’ are often lost on people, like for example Machiavelli believed that the common people were much more honest in their motivations and thus were a more reliable support base for a ruler.
You got it wrong. He actually proves that honour and dignity are part of the mix. The Starks may have been destroyed brutally but retain loyalty and respect eg how the North largely supports Stannis to avenge the Starks while every Lannister relationship is transactional and no one will ever have their back in a tight spot.
Tywin is known for his stoic, extremely intelligent and calculating attitude, and also his cold, manipulative and often unrestrained personality, even towards his family.
The character insists that everything he does is because of his family. Tywin's own father, Lord Tytos, was a generous and caring man whose misinvestments and indecision brought House Lannister to ruin. As a result, when admitting to Arya Stark that Tytos was "a good man", Tywin regarded his father's kindness as a source of weakness. Therefore, he successfully rebuilt his family's fortune almost single-handedly, and this, coupled with his total destruction of House Reyne, led him to embrace ruthlessness as a principle of keeping the family in power.
Ironically, his harsh actions and unwillingness to serve as a caring father figure have resulted in severe emotional problems in all three of his children, who are terrified of him. Tywin only sporadically visited his home at Casterly Rock, and on the occasions when he returned, he would deal with severe punishment for any transgressions his children committed while he was away. Overall, however, for a man who claims to value family above all else, Tywin hypocritically destroyed his relationships with his own children.
And even though he was a very efficient ruler, Tywin made FIVE (5) COLOSSAL MISTAKES:
I) he always seeks to promote the interests of his house, even at the expense of the kingdom (for example, he would not forgive the crown's debt to House Lannister);
II) his methods are excessively cruel: he employs extremely brutal warriors like Mountain and Lorch, gives them freedom to commit atrocities while carrying out his orders and has no qualms about killing small children, babies or even entire houses;
III) even though he believes that family is the most important thing to him, he mistreats his children and sees his legacy as more important to him than family, that his house needs so many heirs to build House Lannister;
IV) although Tywin is powerful and respected, his power was only built on fear, which made his house vulnerable after his death;
V) Tywin's power, arrogance and stubbornness made him believe he was more superior than anyone or anything, even the gods, old and new. Committing acts, such as the Red Wedding, believing that no consequences would follow from their actions, even disregarding the words "Northerners will never forget", never realizing that their hold on the North would be lost and their home would be brought into a dangerous situation by their daughter in her mad quest for power.
In the end, his infinite prioritization of his legacy over his children ended up destroying his goal and killing him as well: after many years of abuse, hatred and disrespect, Tyrion killed him and thanks to Cersei's foolishness and selfishness, destroyed Jaime, the rest of the family and Cersei herself.
All of this can again be attributed to Tywin's arrogance, because he never believed that any of his children could actually oppose him, or even kill him, and also never really understood the extent to which in terms of cruelty, incompetence and deep selfishness Cersei was willing to go for power. Ironically, Olenna's relationship with her granddaughter Margaery showed how Tywin could relate to his children without being mean, overbearing, or cruel; and again, his fiercely conservative nature prevented him from understanding how important a positive relationship with them was and,...
Now the head of House Lannister, Lord Paramount of the Westerlands and Lord of Castelry Rock is Tyrion, the son Tywin never wanted to be his heir, although everyone - except Tywin and Cersei - recognized as best suited for the role, perhaps even better than Tywin himself would ever have been.
Other power moves:
1- never ask permission!
2- make yourself so independent that you don’t need them
3- make yourself indispensable
4- power is in the way you stare, your voice, your walk, your posture.
5- you must have courage to be powerful
6- have the courage to walk away from what doesn’t serve you.
7- have strong boundaries.
Tywin and Olenna had the one common failing that is unforgivable for people trying to create dynasties --they had very few children and either overindulged or completely neglected to raise their few children (Olenna bet everything on Margery, a girl who couldn't really carry the family name and let Loras do whatever he wanted without thought of family. Given her complete domination of her family she should have made her useless son have more children). Tywin should have put his sadness aside and quickly remarried a younger woman and made more children, especially after Jamie became a kings guard and left him with only Tyrion who he hated.
If dynasty matters to you then HAVING A LOT OF CHILDREN is your first goal. Have as many spare children as possible raise them attentively and at no point should they all be away from home at once (basically spread the risk of losing everything through a single mishap)
Outstanding father as well
In order to understand Machiavelli we have to remember that his ultimate aim was the establishment of a strong republican government whose object had to be the common good (not the particular good of a family or a party), and yes, to achieve this Machiavelli thought that, if necessary, every possible mean could be used. So, every mean is not used to reach what I want, but to reach a higher good that is common. As things stand, what is said at 0:30 does not properly represent Machiavelli’s thought but Machiavellism which is a rough copy of it. Then I would also link Tywin to Guicciardini, a florentine thinker and historian, with whom Machiavelli had an epistolary rapport, who believed that the highest thing a man could reach in life is good reputation, to be honoured and respected by other men: this is something, according to Guicciardini, that makes us similar to the shape of God.
Machiavelli gives me a whole new perspective on Tupacs actual character. The fact that he is praised is also very interesting. Especially when he was a big Machi fan
I would give every season of criston cole just to have more seasons of Tywin
Tywin biggest mistake is not killing tyrion as an infant think about it he raised something he disgraced if tywin was machavielian he would drown the dwarf and raise the twins as a single father where they wouldn't end up as incest lovers
If he had killed Tyrion as an infant the Lannisters would have lost the Battle of the Blackwater. having always been cruel to him and not recognizing his merits or helping him develop his potential was his fatal mistake. And then Tywin did other things wrong, having acted with apathy, superficiality, and not thinking about the unexpected and long-term consequences of his actions.
His biggest weakness was not recognizing incest.
Wishing you luck for the channel. I hope to see more videos like this one. To me there is some resemblance of Julius Ceaser but Tywin from the series kind of looks like Niccolo.
Great video up until the end. I highly disagree that a president does what's best for his country no matter what. I believe they do what's best for their hidden interests and the people paying them. The 'country' as a whole is more something they act like they are working towards. It's quite unfortunate really.
All that being said, this was an excellent video, and good job!
Tywin understands "power is power ."
Too bad that Tywin is apathetic, immature, superficial, believes that everything that is immoral, unfair and wrong in society are universal rules of life and never considers the unexpected and long-term consequences of what he does. He underestimates the importance of fairness and cannot distinguish fear from hatred and thought so much about the family's political position that he did not think about the family itself.
MR. Dance is a very intelligent actor! I met him in real life and such a great conversationalist! FYI, totally separate and polar opposite of the actual Tywin Lannister in real life lol. He is a very intelligent actor! I love when he talks about his death and he always says “Tyrion, that stunted ungrateful little short fool” 😂
One thing to note is once the dirty deed was done you never really heard him bring it up again or relish in it. He wasn't Joffery who visibly enjoyed someone else's shame or torment. Tywin knew what he had to do and no matter the cost it was going to be done and afterwards he marched on to the next obstacle. I dare say he wanted to build this sort of Lannister Roman Empire and spread his influence across the entire continent. Even in kingdoms like the north whose people he had just slaughtered, he was willing to have Tyrion rape the heir to Winterfell if it meant a half Lannister would rule there one day.
Yeah. Tywin doesn't look at anyone and has no problem hurting everybody to get what he wants, and he considers everything that is immoral and wrong in the world as universal rules of life.
Lannisters always gave me Roman vibes. lol.
If you like Tywin Lannister/ Charles Dance (like I do) and you like House of the Cards, you should watch House of cards... UK version from 1991. Ian Richardson british actor, play very well his role.
great video! keep up with your good work gjjjjj
Tywin is my fav character in the series, even the books. Love to hate em and his brothers Kevin is even worse when you think about it. 😭
People constantly throw “ Machiavellianism“ around rather freely these days. it is not totally selfish viewpoint of running a country. It’s more so of how to acquire or imperialized other areas and how to connect them to your empire. Speaking in the eyes of a king. One of the first rules of Machiavelli was to when conquering an area that does not share your values or language, colonize it, and have your king live in that area, but do not change the laws that the common people are accustomed to you will not have uprising basically make the commoners, and if you are to conduct violence, ensure that the violence is swift and quick and not drawn out over multiple years where the people will grow to hate you. We see this when sent the mountain after the remaining Targaryen family in Dorn. The mountain killed the rest of the offspring which was called a swift violence of action. Tywin did that to secure his place.
He spent so much time looking at the outside world, he didn't see his own children. Jamie and Cersei's secret, and Tyrion's hatred undid everything he worked for in the end.
Great analysis Sir
he was killed by the one thing he couldn't calculate.
Great analyse thank you.
He didn't even solve his own family. All of his major battles were losses, and he was executed by someone on death row.
That last joke you put in at the end there was great.
Thoughtful analysis. Well done.
Tywin was a bit overrated imo, is own decisions and mistreatment and hatred of his own son led to his downfall, Of all his children it was Tyrion who took after him the most in terms of intelligence, if he had recognized that Tyrion had nothing to do with the Kings death he could of kept Tyrion by his side and used and manipulated him to do his bidding, they could have solidified House Lannister has the true royal family for hundreds of years, but he underestimated both Jaimies loyalty to Tyrion and Tyrion himself and his own selfish actions led to not only his downfall but the downfall of House Lannister as a whole, in the end it was he that secured the destruction of his own house
Exact. After all, he was the one who created various enemies of the Lannisters (enemies who did not hesitate to take advantage of his death) and swept a lot of hatred under the carpet, cheating even when he could have won fairly. Tywin's rule is corrupt and immoral, because under his rule, men like Gregor Clegane, Roose Bolton, and Walder Frey can commit all the crimes and atrocities they want as long as they do it in favor of the crown. Tywin thinks more about appearance than substance. And he always underestimates the cruelty of what he does. He brought the Lannisters to power, but at the same time planted the seeds of their downfall. He thought so much about the family's political position that he ignored any other needs and wants of it. In fact, Tywin's is only a fascist and totalitarian regime.
You should never create enemies in the family because they know your every weakness.
He lost a handful of times. Particularly when came to his kids.
If you would’ve sent Circe off to Casterly rock like he said he was going to and not blamed Tyrion instantly and without proof and actually done an investigation you would’ve won the Game of Thrones because with Marjorie married to Tommand uniting the two most powerful houses and the two riches houses with the biggest armies in the marriage alliance with Dorn would have gone throw And with him alive, he would’ve sent support for the Boltons keeping their power over the north and keeping Tyrion and Sansa married just in case he wanted to get rid of the Boltons and have Laster rule the north that would’ve made little finger actually marry Lysa giving him control over the veil and he could’ve raised up. Whoever was most loyal to him in the storm lands and he would’ve had control over all the seven kingdoms besides the iron Islands, which really don’t matter that much with him in charge of all the other kingdoms even if they didn’t decide to side with him, they wouldn’t have opposed him
I’ve just seen your channel
I am normal dune’s FC , watch your clip about Leto II Golden Path - nice explanation and easily understandable. Suddenly I see this clip about Tywin , how wonderful when I watched GoT I feels how of his administration to shape his power and resources, I love the scene that he explained Arya (in boy cover) that made him respectful
Now I add good channel in my YT follows. Keep channeling 👍🏼🎉
Welcome aboard!