Unscripted: The "True Fan" Dilemma
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2023
- What the heck is a "true fan"? In this unscripted video, Heath talks about gatekeeping, the identity people take from their fandom, the importance of community, and how fandom has (or has not) changed over time.
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Is Fandom Broken? • Is Fandom Broken?
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I’ve always thought it was bizarre that people “owned” their fandom and formed their identities around massive billion $ companies whether it was “nerd” things or even sports. I’ve always just been myself and enjoyed what I enjoyed and found way too many people keep themselves in a tiny box with their fandoms.
I think much of this boils down to the neverending story of content consumption. Everything is designed to hook ya, from prescriptions to subscriptions and social media. I’m so hyper aware of this stuff now and only recently been actively breaking the chain of addiction. Fandom is a market like any other, so these studios need you hooked and to experience FOMO in order to keep ya coming back. The solution is freeing ourselves from the addiction to consume. Starve the monster that sucks the life out of us. That requires honest self analysis, recognizing our own habits and tendencies, strategize against those tendencies and break the impulse altogether. Easier said than done, but then you’re free. Free to be a healthy fan that doesn’t feel the need to unnecessarily gate-keep others or brainlessly consume the machine fodder they feed us. Idk man, I’ve been on my own journey lately and this kinda reminded me of it. I think a true fan is a free fan.
I love this comment and there are lines here that stand out so sharply that they could be on a t-shirt:
"Freeing ourselves from the addiction to consume", "Starve the monster," and ultimately, my favorite is "a true fan is a free fan." Preach it, Brother Benjamin!
Well said!
I like it when someone younger than me tries acting like a gatekeeper in regards to horror. "Boy, I've been a fan of these movies longer than you've been alive." lol.
Edit: Lol sorry posted in the wrong spot. I feel ya though man! Scream sequel fans get me.
There are a ton of collectors out there that only collect the product with seemingly no care about the content itself. You've mentioned this about some movie collections. I've wondered if that's becoming a trend because people only crave the instant gratification of purchasing it, but we've lost the attention span to actually sit down and watch/listen to something. The collection grows, the experience stays woefully stagnant.
Unfortunately, Jim, I think that's exactly what's happening. The rush of buying sometimes seems to have overtaken actually enjoying it once we have it.
I totally agree. I know I'm guilty of it and I've stopped collecting because of it. I had/have interest in these movies, but most times a lot of them sit on the shelf still IN THE WRAPPER! It became ridiculous when I realized half of these I wanted because I wanted my collection to look amazing and I forgot to enjoy the movies themselves. Now I only buy the flicks I want in my collection because no one is ever going to see my collection unlike RUclipsrs...
It was an embarrassing, eye-opening experience.
Yup.
@Cereal At Midnight You can partially blame social media and the yearning to "be popular." They want to show it off. They want people to see that they bought it first or they have the most premiere, flashier edition. After that, the movie/record/toy/etc get lost in the sea of the other stuff collected.
The way I see it, if you go out of obligation, you're already priming yourself to dislike it. Best to let it be, and let the movie find you if and when the time comes. That goes for everything, i think, not just this particular movie.
And there's no such thing as a "True" fan of everything. Everyone has their likes and dislikes even within their own fandom, and that's the way it should be. No one has any right to declare rules for someone else's enjoyment of what they love.
Great point, going out of obligation almost never leads to a good experience.
I also agree that there is no such thing as a "true fan" but I sure do see that term being thrown around almost daily.
Nicely put!
I’ve found that a lot of attitudes, both good and bad, that manifest in any fandom is about how realistic your worldview is at any given time. You _can’t_ read *every* comic or fanfic. You _can’t_ collect *every* figure or DVD. You _can’t_ play *every* CCG or video game. You _can’t_ watch *every* anime or movie. And those of us who have *tried* soon learn that the cost in time, money, and energy is not sustainable in the long run… unless you’re one of the legendary _SUPERFANS_ that basically live their lives *only* for the focus of their interests, and that in and of itself speaks to how realistic your perceptions are. Many new, young fans have the “all or nothing” attitude, and that can indeed work for them for a while, and I still smile and think “I remember those days” when i see that enthusiasm, but to try to keep that going indefinitely is not only unrealistic, it’s also unhealthy. Despite what corporations and their advertising may want you to think, there is life beyond “catching them all” 😅 Conversely, the older, long-term fans can also be just as unrealistic in their views, prompting gatekeeping and poo-poo’ing of newcomers. To keep these fandoms alive, they must change, grow, and yes, allow new blood. The old guard, many of whom were there from the start, sadly won’t be around forever, and the legacy they leave behind needs to be handed off to those newcomers. If that requires fandom interaction changing focus from ‘zines copied on a Xerox machine, to blogs posted on Geocities, to an interest group on Facebook, then so be it. NONE of the mythos surrounding the things we fans love have stayed exactly the same as they were when their creators first presented them to the world, they have grown, changed, and adapted with the times and will continue to do so. As long as everyone in the fandoms, both old & new, realize that there’s room enough for everyone to enjoy _what_ they like, _how_ they like it, then we can all have fun for as long as we’re here. 😊
I remember going to Comicon SanDiego when it a small intimate gathering. Now it’s exploded into this massive marketing campaign. I think it has list some of its innocence. I believe you can be a true fan of any genre when you become selective and choosing quality over quantity.
I think part of the fun of being a fan and/or collector is deciding what DOESN’T deserve your attention or money.
Heath, I LOVE your idea for a documentary about the change in fan culture over the decades! Fan culture/identity is something I've become very fascinated with since the rise of the internet and fandoms becoming the new pop culture by means of serving us product. You have a strong voice concerning this issue and I believe you would produce a detailed, honest, and very thoughtful exploration on the subject!
Fandom has to be earned. Disney can pay as much as they want for the property rights, but it doesn’t guarantee the fandom. They still have to work for that.
I'm 49 and have been reading comics since I was 4 and have been collecting since I was 9 and worked at a Local Comic Shop for about 12 or 13 yrs and would've considered myself a huge fan. But as big as a fan as I was I finally got pushed out of collecting by the prices that the companies are charging for books and the amount of titles I was buying each week. I almost cried as I told my Local comic seller who I've had a sub box with for years and regard as a friend that I was gonna have to cancel it. I'm not sure If anything I just typed had much to do with the topic, but it was nice to share with someone how I feel about the comics industry and the effect it had on me.
I know how you feel. Realizing that physical comics are now a luxury was a hard time for me too. With the average comic costing between $4 and $5 now, it will cost a minimum of $100 a month just to stay on top of a handful of titles. But that also meant I got to spend my reading time on comics history, and that's been really, really fun. But I definitely feel the loss of the feeling of community that used to exist around comic book shops. Like you, it was decades of my life.
I'm a couple years younger than you, but a side benefit of getting older is that you just start running out of time and energy keeping up with everything. And as we age, things are no longer being marketed "at us" so it becomes easier to tune out and just focus on what you know you already enjoy. It doesn't mean you become a fossil, but you just focus that energy more on your passion and less what other folks are doing. Myself, I'll keep happily falling down the endless film noir rabbithole and not worry that I haven't tuned into any new Star Wars or MCU content in years. It's not for me, someone else can have it, and at the end of the day, if you're not enjoying it, it's not worth your time.
Yeah I've reached that point too now.
I haven't seen any new Marvel movies or shows since Thor 4 because I haven't enjoyed anything they've been doing in the last few years. But I am definitely seeing Guardians 3 because of James Gunn. I loved the second Guardians more than the first, and the first one got me into the MCU in the first place. I also loved Gunn's The Suicide Squad and liked Peacemaker, so I trust him to make a good Marvel movie even when the rest of the studio's output has grown as stale as it did.
I know what you mean about fandom. I was the "Star Wars Kid" at my school too. And here I am three decades later getting Star Wars memes sent to me by old classmates, even though I haven't watched a lot of the new stuff and gave up on the Extended Universe a long time ago. That's not to say I don't still love the original trilogy, I'm just not real keen on much of the post-Disney purchase stuff. Same with the MCU. I'm still interested, but more in a "I'll get around to watching it eventually" way. When it seems like a chore to watch it, it really cuts down on the enjoyment.
This is the same road that I've been going down over the last few years. I'm an 80s kid and lifelong geek too, but find my interest waning in the face of the tidal wave of media and products aimed at nostalgic geeks. This is especially true for the properties owned by Disney (Marvel & Lucasfilm) where it seems like a lot of what they churn out is middle-of-the-road content to keep "fans" hooked and going to see their movies, subscribing to Disney+, and buying merch. But then every time I say I'm done and not going to pay attention to what they put out, they do something like Spider-Man: No Way Home or Star Wars: Andor that's really good. So at this point, I just ignore the publicity hype, advertising and trailers from the studios and the predictions of doom from the gate-keeping trolls, wait for the thing to actually come out, and then read or watch reviews from thoughtful reviewers who I respect to decide what to watch. I may be late watching these things, but I end up only watching those movies and shows that I end up liking.
I have this dilemma with some tv shows. An example is a teen show I watched when I was younger. Its third and final season had a major cast shakeup and the show became a shadow of itself, so I am not a fan of season 3, only 1 and 2. Some could argue I'm not a real fan of the show. But I think I can argue as the OG charm of seasons 1 and 2 are what makes the show amazing.
I can see this with music as well. Being born in the 90s, and being a fan of 70s hard rock, fans have got 20-25ish years on me with the fandoms of the bands. Yet most of the time, I'm never given a hard time, because Many people have told me I'm passionate about the bands.
It's interesting.
Born in 78.. growing up in the 80’s and a massive horror fan and physical media collector since a teenager.. it’s a challenge for sure. Before social media.. being a horror fan was really tough, my dad was really into it.. but no one else was. None of my friends and no one I could talk to. I was actually made fun of because of it. I’d go to the library and just read about all these films I never thought I’d ever see. Learn everything I could about special effects, directors, actors, foreign films. Even before social media as an adult when I tried to talk to people about a horror movie or try and get them to go I’d get “how can you watch that stuff or why would want Ron go see that” I felt isolated and alone with my passion. I could never go to a convention since there were none near me at the time and also didn’t have a lot of money. Social media has actually helped and broke fandom. Films get wrecked before they are released but we find out about so many films we would have never heard of. The convention scene has exploded. The boutique labels are putting out so much so quickly… I am single( trying to afford to live day by day and there is extreme pressure from companies and studios. I can’t run out and buy every release, would I like to absolutely! I just remember how 80’s and 90’s and up until recently you couldn’t find most of the stuff that is getting released now or it was so high in out of print price. Then they do this crappy extremely limited runs.😢 where maybe I need a week or month to buy something but instead they pigeon hole you into trying to make people buy something they can’t afford at this moment. Then it’s like the companies are competing because they all releases a bunch stuff all at once. Some weeks nothing then the following week everything at once. Then social media fandom of saying if you didn’t buy this you aren’t a fan or making you feel left out.. or on films.. I don’t know how many times I have been called names and just railroaded for saying simply I liked it disliked a film. We then have the big issues of trending. What’s hot today won’t be hot tomorrow so films am don’t have staying power anymore. Films used to be talked about for months now it’s a couple of weeks maybe a month at best… then no one says boo about it again. I don’t , there are many issues and we as fans need to buy and absorb what we like and enjoy each others views. Not be mean and not get sucked into the corporate vacuum of consume….
Thanks for your comments, Melissa. It looks like things are changing and getting better, but I'm sorry you've had to deal with these challenges in fandom, i.e. gatekeeping, stereotyping, and people assuming things about you based on gender. We're the same age so I've seen some of the things you're talking about first hand, but I've also seen a lot of improvement over the last ten years or so. It's still bad though; some kid once told my daughter she couldn't be a Star Wars fan because Star Wars was for boys. What a ridiculous thing to say! Hopefully your next few decades of fandom will be more welcoming than the first few!
We are around the same age, I went to high school in the 90's and I can relate to most of the things in this video. Fan identity these days is too in your face. My best friend for example watches all things Star Wars and too a point I did too... Till Disney bought them and I began to think Disney will do the Disney thing and over produce products, shows and movies to make $. Typically when business see $ they don't see the quality inn their products, stories and can greatly affect their bottom line. Which is what we are seeing with things like the Obi-Wan series, Boba fett, and Mandalorian season 3. Don't get me started on the Disney trilogy sequels 😂. Fandom has become rather toxic or maybe social media has shown more of that in your face nature of it.
The constant bombardment from corporations to consume have damaged nerd culture. Honestly think Chris Gore said it best, nerd culture is dead. So many think it all has to be one way, and as much as I would like things to be the way they use to it's not going to happen. I'll enjoy my old school nerd stuff while trying to find new nerd stuff I know I will enjoy. We're all different and if we were all the same life would be boring. Great video and very thought provoking.
Thanks for the comment! I know Chris Gore has been banging that "nerd culture is dead" and "it was fun while it lasted" drum for a while now, but I'm not sure how it can be dead when people like you and me and even Chris Gore are still here, still connected to our roots, and still talking about what we enjoy. It has certainly been co-opted by corporations (and embraced my millions), but the new corporate geek culture didn't kill my connection to things like Silent Running or Robert E. Howard or Chris Claremont's X-Men comics, or other things that the "true fans" love. How can it be dead if we keep it alive?
It's funny, we're talking about this the day before May the 4th, which is the corporate version of Star Wars Day. Until Disney jumped on the hash tag bandwagon, Star Wars Day was May 25th. It's a perfect example of Corporate Fan Culture. That doesn't mean people who celebrate Star Wars on May 4th are wrong, but there are those of us who are keeping the spirit of 5-25-77 alive.
@@CerealAtMidnight This is very true, never thought like that. How can it be dead? As long as we have our connection and love to what we grew up with and still enjoy them, you're right it's still alive. I shudder to see the arguments that are going to happen on May 4th amongst fans. Like I said a great video, thought provoking, and very relevant at this point in time.
Thanks for dropping some wisdom, Heath. If being a fan requires something other than naturally occurring love or appreciation, maybe we're doing it wrong...
Definitely one of my favorite videos of all you've produced, Heath. I'm even older than you are, but in many respects we share similar histories and that is forever cemented by being part of a pre-internet generation. As such there is a double edged sword when it comes to what we think a "TRUE" fan is. In many respects we fully absorb and cherish discovering there are others like us all over the world and sharing our devotion and appreciation can be exhilarating. But at the same time I think we can also feel threatened by it, that the personal stake in our individual history of being a rooted fan is not as special as we believed. As such, we may eagerly welcome the joy of camaraderie and kindred spirituality, but we may also reject it as being less legitimate than our own faithful investments have been. Thus, we arbitrarily draw the lines of what constitutes a "True Fan." It's just human nature and we are all prone to it, but for me anyway as I get older the "True" part of it means less than the "Fan" part of it. I've learned over the years that you can really miss out on a lot of life when you are a slave to your opinions.
What people need to realize is a large portion of the loudest voices in your fandom are company plants. They are interns and whatnot whose sole job as gatekeepers is to push you to consume more product and talk company propaganda.
I agreed with you 100 percent. I am about the same age as you Heath and liked all the same franchises growing up in the late 70s/80s. It seems like the gatekeeping isn't really from fans who supported these things for.decades. it's from the IP owners and younger fans. When we make observations that certain characters are changed in a negative way we are told by them- "You are old. We don't need you This Star Wars or He-Man etc.. isn't for you anymore" which is pretty sad. But like you said we just accept it and move on. I haven't seen an MCU film since Endgame, and that's fine. I'd like to.see.more content based on classic comics or animation,there is so much to pull from, but Hollywood is going to keep on churning out what they think younger folks want. I have my robust physical media library of older content, like you. I have more than enough to keep me happy for a long time.
I totally agree that that the gatekeeping is usually younger fans
I think y'all may be on to something here. But of course, we do have to allow that, since these properties stick around forever now, new and younger fans will get a different version than what we got. They probably connect with it differently, too.
Heath, another great video. Related to a lot of what you said.
Look forward to more of the short form topic vids.
Knowing oneself is the ultimate super power.
Thanks for bringing up the subject because I feel exactly the same way about it that you do, and it can feel alienating. P.s I had the same Yoda T-shirt. It was a sad day indeed when I outgrew it
Heath, as someone who was collecting Marvel comics and watching Star Trek on black and white TVs in the early '70s, and who saw the original Star Wars 10 times in the theater after it was released, I've never believed in the monolithic "Fill-in-the-blank" fan. I watch ST or SW movies or shows that don't waste my money or time and avoid the rest. Same goes for Marvel stuff. For me it was a revelation when the first Spider-Man and X-Men movies came out, since I'd been waiting a lifetime to see those guys properly put on the big screen. And for a few years after that, Marvel just kept hitting it out of the park. Now, not so much, and I long ago stopped jumping on every new release. Does that mean I'm not a true ST or SW or Marvel fan? Maybe so. But it does make me a fan of what's good and what's worthy of my time. So, whether that means Andor, Mad Men, the French and American New Waves, classic pre-Code flicks or the oeuvres of Welles and Wilder and Godard, I watch what makes me happy, with no obligation to either the corporations or the rabid gatekeepers. Never be afraid to just be you. Life's too short. 🙂
It always makes me laugh when people talk about classic films - which means different things to different people.
Whereas I understand the concept of "gatekeepers", I don't understand why some people allow themselves to be influenced/guided by said gatekeepers. You like what you like, and you collect what you want to collect. Don't let others direct how you spend your time.....and money.
I think everyone wants to feel like they belong to something, and sometimes that leads to manipulation or influence that we're not always aware of. In some ways, I think fan culture has replaced religion among a certain generation.
Hey Heath, your hair looks great. Also awesome and timely video. I once made a t-shirt with a frame from the teaser trailer of Star Wars Episode I on it right after it came out. Love this topic!
Ironically, an ad for how awesome the Disney Star Wars ride is came on during this for me. I try not to gate keep. If the youngsters (and even older) are digging all the new output, good for them. But, when someone asks me if I’m a Star Wars fan, I feel (unlike in say 1995) like I have to qualify my answer and say, “I’m a fan of the original trilogy.” With comic book movies, I vaguely plan to see them all some day, but there’s some I’m years behind on.
Same for me with Doctor Who. I have to say "of the original show". The modern stuff just left me cold for the most part.
@@codyw1 Me too. I was into NuWho for a while, but realized more and more I was really just a fan of classic. I’ve given up a season or two back.
Same here. I'm a classic Whovian, but the new stuff is VERY different and feels way more geared to small children. The old stuff was still a family show, but they had GREAT scripts and big ideas to compensate for their tiny budgets. With the rebooted show, the budget is huge and the story is tiny.
I'm about your age Heath, so we probably had similiar experiences growing up. Being a nerd was the kiss of death to your social status where I grew up/go you bullied, so it's refreshing to see nerd-dom kind of become more mainstream and accepted.
But I have become so burned out from Disney/Marvel/Star Wars anything and everything- for the past two years-ish, Disney has been doing makeup collab after collab and I am *exhausted* to the point I've started to lose interest in new releases. It just feels like a greedy cash grab to me. Wow, yes, release am eyeshadow palette wity a bunch of neutrals and one or two pops of color and slap a Star Wars picture on top and rake in that money!
The constant releases of middle of the road content annoys me because I feel like it's spreading to other parts of the movie industry, so I've started to watch older movies from the 50's-80's that I haven't seen and I've been enjoying it.
But in general, for me, it's just been a general sense of oversaturatuon and burnout. It's everywhere and I can't stand get away from it and it doesn't seem like it'll end anytime soon. 😊
Gatekeepers = People who run fast to stay in one place. One of the biggest issues with a lot of the content that is being put out now is from the people who grew up watching a lot of it. Star Wars, Dragonball Super, Scream, it is all high budget fanfiction for series that have long since been over. So a lot of ideas that make for bad fanfiction is now being put out in official capacities. The purity test of fandom is another crazy thing. I knew life before a lot of these series and I'm glad to say that I have still know it after. We have become stagnate with our pop culture. The most watched thing in 2008 was Game of Thrones. In 2018 the most watched thing was Game of Thrones... That is not a good sign at all and we need to stop being so addicted to nostalgia and constantly looking backwards. It is okay for things to end and peoples tastes do change with age. I think what gets lost in translation of a "true fan" is there is a difference between being a fan of something and being an "active fan" of something.
A problem with the "real fan" thing is that folks like that not only feel obligated to see the movie or show, but feel obligated to love it, even if it isnt up there in quality. I see that a lot with Dragon Ball fans. I love DB as a whole, but I did not like "Super" and didn't collect the episodes. When folks see the DB section in my library, they ask where DB Super is and I tell them I probably won't ever buy them. I don't publicly trash Super. I don't talk down to fellow fans who love it. The Dragon Ball fandom is plagued with a lot of problems, like most fanbases.
As for Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3, I haven't seen that many Marvel films in the theater, but I do have them all on disc. We don't live near a theater, so it's easier and cheaper for me to buy the Blu-ray. If I get to the point where I genuinely hate a movie, I got the option to sell it and at least get $5-10 back. There have been a lot of them that disappointed me. I'm not immune, though. That thought of being a completionist still haunts me a bit, but I've gotten better with that over the years.
I have become more picky on what I’ll see in the theaters, mainly because I seem to enjoy watching movies at home more than in the theater. Having said that, I still get excited whenever I see The Flash ad with Keaton in the cowl. It’s like the kid in me comes out and some endorphins release in my brain. I plan to see it in the theater, but I don’t plan on seeing everything that comes out.
I had the Darth Vader version with the blue font of that shirt. I wore it all the time! Great video
I had that one too! They were the covers of the 1995 VHS THX release and I had Episode IV and Episode VI, but not Empire Strikes Back, which was a stormtrooper.
@@CerealAtMidnight Yep! I had the VHS set too I watched those to death!
They weren't kidding when they said "see them again for the first time...for the last time!"
@@CerealAtMidnight Sadly you're right! It was the last time we got those OG cuts in Widescreen.
Mentioning "Super Friends" and "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends..."
Realizing I'm old.
Current times expect for you to go to anything that comes out from big studios or editorials, depending on the market, and if you don’t like it, disagree with it or you don’t consume the product, then you are labeled as not a "true fan". To begin with, there is really no definition for "true fan", it is subjective and the only one who says if I’m a true fan or not, is me. People is not fixated on the product and not if the consumer is going to like it or not. I am a comic collector and movie aficionado, X-Men is my favorite team, but i haven’t bought a book of them in the past 12 years because there is nothing now that attracts me and makes me want it. Does that make me less of a fan that someone who buys their current books? Absolutely not! Same goes for the movies or any other subject for that matter. At the end, you need to look for the type of fan "you" want to be, see, buy and enjoy what you like and enjoy life :)
And there is a similar kind of gatekeeper-- someone who would expect you to like newer shows of a specific kind/genre, upon learning that you like one show of that kind/genre (e.g. I have Emergency! on DVD [because I truly enjoy that 70s NBC medical/action series]; someone might expect me to enjoy newer series of that genre, like Chicago Fire, Chicago Med, 9-1-1, etc., and that if I don't, I must not be the true rescue show fan [notwithstanding that I have never cared for those newer shows or their content or cast]).
Great video Heath! You make some valid points. For me, I'm just so burned-out on superhero movies and just wish these companies would come up with new ideas. I will still go see Batman because I've always like Batman but that's it. I think the "true fans" get mad when other people like their fandom because a lot of them were ridiculed in the past for liking those things and now they're popular and they feel probably a little upset by that.
Oh, that's a great point! The idea of having to pay dues to get into fandoms. Like, I paid a price for my fandom and it DOES bother me when I see people who are casual fans and haven't "earned it", whatever that means. That's a real thing and even though I'm aware of it, I still contribute to it, even though I try not to.
@@CerealAtMidnight I see this also happen with a lot of hobbies. I loved putting car models together as a kid, and when I got older, I thought I'd join a model club. Went to two sessions and never went back after being told I wasn't a "true modeler" because I didn't use actual auto paint from the dealerships. I've never seen someone literally scoff at something before...but they sure did with Testor's model paint. It was like they reveled in making things difficult.
Apparently this is a huge issue with model train clubs. Certain types of members are called rivet counters...because if the model train they build doesn't have the exact same number of rivets to represent certain eras of actual trains, it's junk. Huh.
Im about the same age as you and what you are saying in this video is so true. When we were growing up there was so little geek stuff available it was easy to watch it all and take an interest in it all, when something like The Crow or Blade movies came out, it was just so amazing and unexpected.Then when my son was growing up I was able to take him to every comic book movie and bought him the dvds or blu-ray for birthdays and Christmas etc.. roll on to even the past 5 years and I can't keep up and there are no surprises, almost everything comic book related is open game. I have stopped going to the cinema now to see comic book movies and I dont watch all the shows, not because I dont want to it... I just wouldn't know where to start so I have to pick and choose wisely.
I think you hit the nail on the head. You like what you like. I learned this with Garfield. I love the comics, and the original TV show. But not the movies, or new TV show. And I have no interest in the Chris Pratt version.
You have noted what to you is 'diminishing returns.' I am curious if it is really Diminishing Returns or the fact that your own tastes have gone their own way as time has passed. Nothing is static.
I can certainly relate to your comment about the number of Spider titles; I had that same issue in the 80s, with X-Men titles. I ended up quitting because the storyline was taking forever and a day and required purchasing more titles than I could, at the time, afford. (I note this to point out that, as popular as it is to say that things are different from when we were kids, in many ways things really aren't... the media companies have always been greedy.)
I also find fascinating your assertion that the companies have built a gate to say that, unless we indulge in everything, we aren't 'real fans.' That is certainly not my experience. I have found it to be the exact opposite; the self-labeled 'real fans' are far more gate-keepy than the studios. "If you watch this, you AREN'T a REAL FAN ... especially if you LIKE IT!!!" Which I tend to do ... these are entertainment, not life.
(And, by the way, the new LITTLE MERMAID looks terrific, and I have every intention on seeing it. And if that upsets someone, that is their problem, not mine.)
I'm not asserting that corporations have built the gate, the fans have. Corporations have one goal: to make as much money as possible. They have certainly trained us to consume, but it's the fandom that guards the gates. Corporations are faceless, soulless, and passionless. Sometimes they hire the right people, but more often than not, they achieve by committee, rather than creator.
Have fun at The Little Mermaid! No judgment here. For me, none of these remakes can hold a candle to the original, but everyone gets to pursue their own joy.
I'm a huge KISS fan. I really think the online KISS community is one of the most toxic fan communities on earth. Whenever I watch anything KISS related on RUclips, I never ever read the comments. The KISS FAQ discussion forums used to be even worse, but again, I haven't looked at that in years. All that being said, the Star Wars community is maybe worse. Being a huge fan of both, I have remained completely confused about this phenomenon. I cannot fathom the idea of devoting so much time and money to something that makes me that unhappy. Where does this anger come from? I get bored when I watch Basketball. So I don't watch basketball. Reality television only reminds me that our species in is decline ...so I don't watch it. I think I might be onto something here. I don't understand the problem, but I think I did find the cure?
Ps- would you ever do a video on leaving a fandom, or not being a fan of X anymore?
Hmmmm. I don't think I've ever left a fandom before! With things like Star Wars, Marvel, and some of the stuff I talk about in this video, I don't actively enjoy new installments but I still enjoy the things that made me a fan in the first place. It's an interesting idea, so I'll keep it in mind if I experience this in the future.
In my case, I have no problem both being a Marvel fan and knowing other people dislike it or are burned out by it. My experience with fandoms online has been the opposite: the people that dislike it are incredibly hostile towards those that do. Like they fell out of love with someone and they want everyone to hate that person too.
That's a version of gate keeping, IMO. "I don't like this, so you can't either."
I saw the first two Guardians of the Galaxy movies and enjoyed them but somehow I don't have a strong desire to see the third one. Just not feelin' it... and I think that's perfectly fine. You should never feel forced into watching something just because you were a fan of a franchise or a company.
"You should never feel forced into watching something just because you were a fan of a franchise or a company."
Which is why I only have two of Star Trek's series on DVD-- the original NBC 1966-69 one (TOS) and Voyager (some would say, however, that I'm not the true Trekkie if I don't have TNG, DS9, Enterprise, or any of the 2010s and 2020s shorter Treks [Discovery, Picard, etc.]).
Just watch what you wanna watch.
Great video. I will only touch on one aspect. I grew up in the 1960's. Saturday morning was my day with the TV. Every cartoon show had ads that were aimed at me convincing my parents to buy: Cereals, Fast Food, Toys, Roller Skates, & anything else aimed at a kid. Get the child hooked on the cartoon and we can sell the parents anything to make the child happy. I am living proof of this. I drove my parents nuts, especially @ the holidays. We have been conditioned since we were kids. It's only a side bonus if what they were telling in these stories actually made us feel good. Disney, Marvel, Star Wars, He-Man, Barbie, etc. We look back on those days with nostalgia but we Were being conditioned as future consumers. When a person grows up they have to recognize it for what it was and is. As an adult you Can step away.
Great video!
It used to be that bonafide "trufan" was someone who READ science fiction.
It's true. I think that term goes back to the 1950s, which proves gatekeeping is nothing new.
I will say that I get turned off of things by other fans sometimes. I like the Harry Potter films/books alright, but a few co-workers are too into it for me and that's made me enjoy it less because it's about all a couple of them really talked about, and all the Harry Potter junk they have. Lanyards, pins, pens, buttons, bumper stickers, window crap on their cars, [Careful: Wizard on board], scarves, cups, straws, multiple messaenger and tote bags, etc. This an the overenthusiasm is too rich for me.
I see rabid fandom all the time especially with remakes and sequels and all that happening now. Like i get that a movie can mean a lot to you but honestly, who cares if they remake it? Who cares if they make a sequel for it? You dont have to watch it, your bluray of the movie still works, its not like a squad is coming around collecting all the old copies of the movie because only the new one would exist. Like chill out for real, its just a movie
I went through the same feelings after endgame. You'll figure out this evenually :)
Yeah I was a bit like this in regards to Doctor Who in the 90s, bought all the books (even though half of them were unreadable), subscribed to the magazine etc. These days I pick up the classic Blu rays and that's it. That said, I've always chafed at the idea of being pigeonholed as any one thing, despise the notion of "fan consensus" and with most of the other things I love don't even bother with their fandoms as I'd rather keep my things mine.
The only thing I feel almost obligated to support is James Bond. In a world of never-ending superhero movies, Bond films have become so scarce, they're in real danger of going the way of the dodo.😅The fact that Eon Productions hasn't even started casting the new Bond is a real testament to that.
I am fan about everything me as geek other than awesome video man 😎.
I feel like Guardians might be the last good Marvel movie for a very long time, so I’m going for the chapter close, as much as anything.
Have you ever seen a fandom bathroom? For an adult? They're a bit much. Tacky. I love Batman, but I knew things weren't ever going to work out when a former gf bought me a Batman emblem soap dispenser, a Batman shower curtain, and she was debating with herself in sime store about getting a Star Wars shower head. I had to talk her out of it. We were both over 30. I can see a parent fixing up a kid's room/bathroom with some gimmickry like that, but it's too silly for me at this stage in my life. And for anyone with all that tacky stuff, that's cool if it really makes you happy. I'm still going to poke fun. 😂
Well you know a documentary filmmaker my friend....
This whole idea of having the proper ID card to be allowed into a fandom is so destructive, but not new. I'll never forget going to my first DragonCon in the 90's and seeing this battle between Star Trek and Star Wars fans and I'm like "where's the Babylon 5 panel?"
I think some fans, a lot of us, wear our fandom like a shield because we have been treated like outsiders. Ww weaponize it against anyone we feel threatened by. I also think pre mcu fans are angered by the mainstream movie fans that represent the people that mocked us before there were movies. I believe most toxic fandom stims from low self esteem.
Also, sadly Disney over saturated the market with mcu content and rushed it so yeah it's pretty bad in general now.
I partially agree. Yes, definitely like what you like and support what you want to support. But humanity has not changed and it's the same ole crap as it was in the 80's and 90's. Marvel and DC more than any other companies taught me that things can go south real fast. Writer gets fired, editor pulls story, variant covers, holofoil, sealed polybags, and the coup de gras: your favorite book gets cancelled. The list goes on and on. I wish there was such a thing as a gate keeper who cared and protected the property but it's always a race to the bottom. You brought up 80's stuff like Transformers and GI Joe, remember the dip in quality after the movies? Headmasters anyone? There are generations who love the SW prequels cause that's their childhood and the same will be true of the new trilogy. Really the thing that is offensive beyond exploitation is the taste making, and every era has it. I remember dudes in the late 90's who grew up on Gigantor and Speed Racer in the 70's absolutely skewering Cowboy Bebop cause they dared to have jazz in the soundtrack. Opinions always need to be taken with a grain of salt or outright ignored. The great thing about now is the variety and opulence of content. You can just move to the next thing. We were very limited back then. People are free to argue but it's a waste of time, although the Little Mermaid was, is, and will always be...trash. 😉Sorry, had to see it 4 times in theaters back in the day. Still have nightmares.
Lot of good points and not sure I know any real answers. I loved the comic movies and grew up with many of them that you mentioned, but just feel like it has been oversaturated. After Endgame, I just started to tune out and now just wait until they show up on a streaming service and even then, I haven't gotten around to watching many of them. Not an attack on the movies or the fans that still like them, just personally I was ready for more of something different. My something different has been digging into older movies (pre-1960's) and some genres that I haven't given a try yet or that I haven't visited in a while.
I love that you're digging into older movies! I was just talking to someone about this yesterday (my buddy Josh Jabcuga) as he was talking about how people with Marvel fatigue can find that they can scratch that itch with so many older movies that are hitting Blu-ray, many of which most people have never even heard of but that have a lot to offer in terms of entertainment value.
@@CerealAtMidnight Absolutely! And I'll plug that lots of suggestions have been from your videos/reviews!
@punkrockmba is great at explaining this concept in heavy metal.
People who call themselves "real fans" are more concerned about themselves and how other people look at them. They care about their place in the community, and their own status.
BTW you should display your movies how you want it.
The problem with the He-man series is when you put agenda before anything else of course fans will get upset. No gate keeping people are just sick of agendas vote with your dollors. Bud light is finding out the hard way.
That interpretation of He-Man really bothered some people, but the real problem, as I see it, is that the people who didn't like it acted like they were the only people who mattered and attacked the people who did like it. Nobody owns fandom and the best way to deal with something you don't like is to starve it of your time and energy, not to go after those that disagree.
@@CerealAtMidnight I agree if you dont like it dont support it with views or dollors. But dont RIP on pepole who enjoy it. Its almost impossible to have a back and forth conversation any more I say something a person dont agree with and its WW3.
There's only so much time and money we can sink into these things. The older we get, the more this becomes a factor. And as much as I love the availability, I think we can all agree that it's also a tremendous glut at this point.
I was born in 1970, and don't remember a Star Wars backlash, or being seen as an outsider. Given a bazillion people when to see the movies, I'm not sure how that would make a person an outlier. I hear the same thing about KISS fans. That they would get beat up for wearing their tshirts. I was a fan of both and never experienced this. Or maybe I was just lucky to be in a class that was more accepting? I know the grade above us had a totally different collective personality than we did.
I experienced the gatekeeping firsthand on Facebook recently. When a music artist made an unpopular choice, and I expressed support amidst the backlash, I had multiple angry fans comment "you don't get to speak for us!!". I wasn't speaking for you, I was speaking for myself. I don't need to run my response by you before I post it...geez.
As a DC nut , I thought Suicide Squad was incredibly refreshing, witty and made by someone who actually reads comics . I’m so excited for a Gunn run DC cinematic universe. I think Marvel is the Universe that’s in major trouble . There hasn’t been a good movie since Endgame minus Spiderman no way home. Love and thunder was one of the worst movies I’ve seen in a long time
And there could be yet another kind of gatekeeper-- someone who would say that you're not a true movie fan if you don't see every film that has every major young star there is (to explain, I'm a huge fan of Joey King, who I believe is a phenomenal young female actor [I have 6 of her pictures on DVD, and 4 of those on Blu]); there are those who would possibly say that I'm not a true movie fan if I'm not the fan of Chloe Grace Moretz and her pictures, Abigail Breslin and her films, or Asa Butterfield and his content (to which I'd say that if you're the fan of those stars, more power to you; I don't think I would have cared for them).
I’m going to skip it. Just tired of comic book movies. I’ll check it out on streaming maybe one day.
I remember being at school and someone in my class I'd known for years said to me I hear you collect comics? I denied it as I thought he was going to tale the piss but he was a collector too and wanted to trade some comics 😆 now everybody it seems is a comic "expert" since the MCU and is happy to tell you your opinion is wrong if you mention what these characters were like originally.
I've tapped out myself. I grew up with the same stuff and still love comics but the movies just don't hold my interest anymore. I actually didn't even finish the last Spider-Man because I thought it was so absurd. I have all of the original MCU films on UHD but once they started getting into things like the Eternals and cranking movies that felt like they could be written by AI, I'm done. I'll still support the characters I like if they have good movies but I'm not going to see every movie or buy every one that comes out just to have I own it. You have to draw a line eventually.
I am the same age as you and grew up in the 80s and what the corporations are trying to sell us right now is that 80s nostalgia because we are the “true” fans right? Wrong! Don’t buy into this. I am a DC fan from the Christopher Reeves Superman and the Tim Burton Batman. I hardly watch the new comic book movies because it’s all for money. Same with Star Wars. I know huge Star Wars fans that were like you, wearing the T-Shirts, etc, but now want nothing to do with this new Star Wars hoopla. They are still fans. What you do best is you tell us to get out of our fan bubble and explore the older stuff. You are still a movie fan but becoming a film historian. Keep up the good work. BTW I only watched the first Guardians of the Galaxy and have no care to watch any more.
I'm with you. Critics can be the worst.
You're probably more of a Disney fan if you don't go and see the new Little Mermaid. True Disney died some years ago. Just remember the good times.
There are things that I'm not a fan of for sure, but the things I like and love they very widely. But never once have I worried about weather anyone else likes it or thinks I'm a fan or know everything about a particular subject or genre. I like to dig into a bunch of different things from time to time. Know a little about a l9t of stuff if you will. For instance I binged 5 Chuck Norris movies last week then today I was watching a bunch of 1970s Doctor Who episodes, lol wouldn't call myself a fan boy of anything really, just really enjoy film and TV from the past
Considering 20 of the first 23 MCU movies were good, but only 1 or 2 of the last 8 have been good (not even mentioning the lousy D+ shows) who can blame you? That said, I have high hopes for Guardians 3, and that Gunn brings it all home with a satisfying end to his trilogy.
I'm gonna go see GOTG 3 because I really enjoyed the first two (as opposed to you, I actually thought part 2 was better than part 1:-)) and it's perhaps my favorite MCU series, but no, I don't feel this urge with any other Marvel movie. Actually, the last Marvel movie i saw in the cinema was the original Avengers. I caught up on most of them later through home viewing and I'm still not caught up with the so-called Phase IV. i also like that GOTG is supposed to have a definite ending and not another placeholder for the next movie. As to Horror fandon, it is so successful for companies because, and do not mean to offend any horror fan in the crowd, horror fans will watch, and pay for, any piece of &*$% as long as its horror. I mean, the level of tolerance is really really high, and horror as a genre has equally a high garbage/quality ratio. So you have many companies putting out bad movies with lavish packaging and lots of special features and they are selling like hot potatoes. Basically any horror title will sell no matter what it is. The horror fan is a very non-discrimanting fan. It's the reason companies such as "horror pack" exist, because fans don't care what they get as long a sit's horror. We don't have Western pack or SF pack or comedy pack, do we? Another question with regard to fandom would be, are we living in a post-modern era where quality is not as important as presentation. Dune for years was considered a bad movie even among most science fiction fans. Even its director disowned it. Now companies both in the US and Europe put out these lavish sets of Dune and that are selling hot. Ishatr, for crying out loud, got a special collector's edition. So I think fandom today is, depending on the age group, really about either the now and only the now, with very little consideration of the past, or simply the persevernce of the past usually with little regard to the actual artistic quality of the pieces in question.
I just like movies. Good movies and a lot of the recent franchise movies are not very good. Just my opinion I find myself going back and watching old movies that I haven’t seen rather than watching new releases. Just my opinion
I agree with you heath except for every nick cage film. It cage man :)
Just let fans do what they want and watch what hey want problem solved
Wait...the other vids are scripted? ;)
I will not see Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3
I’d watch it because of Drax alone.
I'm older than you, so it seems odd to me that anyone older than a teenager would want to be a member of a tribe based on their consumption. With Marvel movies specifically, I enjoyed them for a while, but gave up after Avengers: Endgame. I have a life, and I don't want to spend it sitting in front of a screen. And I genuinely don't expect to enjoy tv shows that I liked in my teens for the rest of my life. Why would I? There is also the issue that not everything transfers from one medium to another. A great book may not make a great movie, not every comic book character has to create a franchise.
I know it's a generational thing. When I was a teenager, we quite liked if no-one liked the music we did (music was the big thing in the 1970s). Liking something offbeat showed how "cool" you were (we thought!). Now, fanboys take the hump if you like stuff that they don't! I commented of one video that I had enjoyed Rings Of Power, and so had a number of people I know. I was called an "Amazon shill". There is a toxic layer to fandom where it's not enough to like the same things - you have to dislike the same things as well. And, tbh, I'm a grown-up, and I don't need it. I've watched Dr Who since the 1960s, but I don't now how I feel at RTD returning; I'm a lifelong Star Trek fan, but I reserve the right to dislike the recent dystopian output. Any adult who defines their identity by their "fandom" seriously needs to look at their priorities - this is leisure and entertainment, once you're past your teens, it just shouldn't be that important. And anyone of any age who spends hours "hate-watching" anything should definitely get out more!
Happy Star Wars Day! May the Schwartz be with you! and don't forget to set your wallet for Fun and possibly lots of debt!
Im pushing 60 so roughly 10 years older than you. I grew up a comic book fan and Star Trek fan. I quit watching Marvel movies after End game and Star Trek shows. These new shows and movies are not for me nor were they made for me. Due to word of mouth I did watch S3 of Picard which is actually my Star Trek. Just say no to Guardians if you dont want to go.
Me sa thinks you funny 👍
You're playing into corporate America's hands, man. Don't do it. If you're playing their game, you will lose. There is too much out there to see every second of every movie and tv show and making of video and behind the scenes find your easter egg videos. It's all too much any more. The man will run this into the ground before they back off for the sake of the characters or the story. They're gonna shovel more, more, more until virtually no one wants it any more. But that's just, like, my opinion, man. 😁
If you don't watch the New Little Mermaid your the Antichist.
I haven't watched a new Marvel movie since Spider-Man: No Way Home. I liked it a lot and it seems like a good place to stop for me. I am looking forward to Across the Spider-verse though.
I might skip The Flash too unless I hear it's really good. The more footage I see, the less interested I become.
I have liked some of the Disney live action remakes, but for the most part, I'd rather rewatch the originals.
On He-Man: Long-time fans were right because Kevin Smith presented it as a continuation. Season 3. It's totally different and it was used/co-opted as a vehicle for propaganda voiced by people with an obvious agenda. Smith and company got the reaction they deserved. Why is there this need to take an existing property and totally change it? Why are fans supposed to simply accept that? Why can't these people who are supposedly creative create original properties for their propaganda that they want to push? I get it, they've tried and failed. Well, perhaps that's because they're hacks and most don't want to support their message. 🤷♂️
But some fans (lots of fans, apparently) DID accept it. And instead of saying "alright, you do you, but I'm outta here" a certain element of fandom threw a tantrum and attacked those who enjoyed it. That's pretty much my point about gatekeeping and "true fan" behavior. When one person is telling another person they're doing it wrong, that's called gatekeeping. It doesn't matter if it's justified or not. I think we're better off just walking away instead of fighting a war with other fans.
@@CerealAtMidnight Yeah, that's just the internet for you, I think. I don't think that would happen that much in real life. I think they're right in that they're the true He-Man/She-Ra fans and the others are "Johnnys Come Lately"who mostly aren't going to stick around. And I honestly don't think there are all that many new fans, just people who watched it because it was on a service they already had, not something they went out of their way to see. And I'll tell you why I believe that. The merch, the toys, the He-Man community. There aren't very many new members versus before the Season 3 cartoon. The toys based more on Kevin Smith's He-Man didn't sell. I saw a TON of those He-Man and Skeletor figures at Ollie's [like Big Lots used to be] for $8 each just sitting there. Yeah, there are some long-time He-Man collectors who will buy literally anything, even if they genuinely don't like it, but they had those figures in Walmarts and they didn't sell. But we still have plenty of MOTU Origins figures and accessories in stores. Heck you may have seen that's getting a Snake Mountain now.
Anyhow, yeah the long-time fans should at least target the right people, Kevin Smith, Netflix, and the ones behind the show, not people who happen to like the newer show. Those people won't stick around anyhow. They'll move onto the next co-opted property being used as a vehicle for someone's agenda/cash grab.
Side tangent. When it came to the old cartoons, I liked the She-Ra Princess of Power episodes more overall than the He-Man episodes. I thought the storytelling was better. They probably weren't under quite the same Parents Censorship Council scrutiny that He-Man faced. I have all the DVDs that have come out except the New Adventures Volume 2. I'm not paying those aftermarket prices. Heard anything about a New Adventures rerelease?
Last side note: Did you happen to buy/read any of the big Dark Horse He-Man books like The Art of He-Man, The MiniComics collection, The Newspaper Comics, etc? I have most of them, although I've skipped the episode guide and I think they're bringing that Origins toy book out too soon. The line isn't done. The Newspaper Comics book is pretty good. I liked the New Adventures strips better than I expected.
I know I've gone on way too long and I totally get it if you haven't the time to reply. Take care.
Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything about a re-release of those shows. They're all with Universal now and I'm not sure they think it's worth their while, but they DID release all of the original MOTU and She-ra shows, so they might as well finish it for the fans who missed those DVDs all those years ago.
Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of those Dark Horse books and I have all of them, including Pixel Dan's action figure guide. Moreover, I've read them cover to cover! The mini comics one was amazing because it was often so different from the cartoon. For my 40th birthday, my wife and daughter made me a He-Man cake from a vintage 1980s Wilton cake pan.
I liked the MOTU: Revelations series (I didn't think it was perfect, but I enjoyed how deep it went into niche areas of MOTU, such as King Grayskull, He-Ro, Scare Glow) and I got attacked by "true fans" for apparently not being the right kind of fan. Hundreds and hundreds of trolls came to my channel and attacked me in the comments and told me I was everything from a soy boy to poseur.
That experience definitely informed this video. I've been a fan of He-Man longer than a lot of those folks have been alive, but they were trying to take my fandom away from me.
Nearly 99% of the time, I'm a satisfied customer... let me share my secret. Ignore ALL online chatter and fan gatekeeping - simply watch what you're interested in AT THE TIME OF YOUR CHOOSING. Simple. There's lots of things I choose to simply watch later, when I find the right mood. Break free from the pressure of advertising and social media bickering, it'll change your life.
I haven't watched a Marvel film in a year... but I was 'in the mood' and feeling it... so the last few weeks, (totally unrelated to VOL 3 coming out, seriously) I decided to rewatch everything since the CIVIL WAR (a lot I know) - I"ve been loving it so much, refreshing myself on films I'd forgotten the details because of - burnout - and now I can get a renewed excitement and take on these newer films without that one thing that kills it for most fans - LOUD NONSTOP Fan Wars.
Example: last night for me was CAPTAIN MARVEL, it was ok, not great but fun... I looked up some reviews and my goodness, I forgot the gender feuding that it created - so ridiculous. But 4 years later, outside that bubble - the weight of all that dialog had no bearing on my viewing last night. It's so refreshing to take a break.