@@JHarris I’m just making a joke on the GamerNexus complaining when one of the Labs employee had said to a visitor that LTT’s testing was the best in the industry and this made GamerNexus very mad and he made a video on it or something, I think this was before the LTT-GamerNexus drama
Y'all will probably think of this, but I don't like to assume anything... Please test fan noise levels with and without a charger plugged in. I have an HP laptop that is quiet enough while on battery power, but it gets SUPER loud when it's plugged in, even at idle with no programs open.
This applies to most laptops On charge they pull more power and run at a higher performance And thus, they heat up and fans work harder Your HP is weird for doing it on idle, though
As said, on battery a laptop will cut its performance down A LOT, so not unexpected that it's louder when plugged in. However, I will say that noise testing is probably #1 or #2 in my own priority for deciding on a laptop. Performance is important, but I'll take something less if it means it won't be a jet engine. I have a big chonky ASUS with a 970M GPU, it doesn't get very loud at all and in its day could play anything. Got my wife an Omen with a 3070 and it sounds like a hair dryer, it's unusable loud. I wish it was twice as thick like the ASUS if it meant it didn't sound like that.
Love what LTT is doing with the labs. We do need media teams who thoroughly test devices in a repeatable manner. I also really enjoy these behind the scenes type of videos that go over these processes.
agree, never let a butter-finger camera staring NO situational aware screeches like a banshee at anything above ambient sound levels near testing labs. I wonder how many times his voice and reaching for his little indexing game controller dongle thing, screwed up someone's test.
i did some signs for a company that does environmental testing various ways like defense aerospace space ect and they had tons of these giant chambers and its so weird being inside with the door closed. noise is just dead inside. It was awesome
$5300 for a max spec Titan 18 HX laptop. It's literally the most high end thing you can buy and I'm sure it will be just right for one type of person lol.
Planned Target audience: People who want the most powerful laptop currently in existence Actual Target audience: People who want to brag that they have the most powerful laptop in existence, then use it 5 hours a week to play Minecraft or Indie games
10:35 here’s something that would be really neat to include (and Notebookcheck does when they’re making laptop content instead of complaining about PS5 equivalents): coil whine. A lot of Thinkpads I’ve seen have no coil whine out-of-the-box, but as soon as you put a load, it gets coil whine that persists throughout the lifetime of the laptop; alternatively I’ve seen laptop docks make coil whine worse (possibly from a dock w/ really bad coil whine) Maybe once the device goes through all the performance testing, have a test on coil whine during idle (load coil whine does occur more often but isn’t as big of an issue because the fans would be spinning)
Absolutely love Labs updates! Am wondering if it's possible to get more detail on any of the specific setups. There's so much cool tech in there and I'm sure also so many cool stories from the folks developing it that I would absolutely _love_ to hear each of the different Labs techs geek out about their particular niche for longer ❤
There's no doubt that labs is one of the best things that has happened to the tech space, yes there is still a ton of work to do but even with what they currently have the amount of data that will be EASILY available to consumers is great. Keep the good work guys, you are AWESOME.
Hope the Labs guys love getting feedback cause HOLY this video already has a ton of suggestions. Good luck with this, guys! Looking forward to this, especially seeing the transparency with every single test!
If you are to ever update your testing methodology further into the future, it would be lovely to have which revision of methods were used, in case you don't retest all previous devices.
Something you guys should add to the testing suite is audio (driver) performance. For example dell laptops such as the xps line post-process the crap out of your audio with their almost impossible to remove "waves maxxaudio" software, which makes any headphones/iems sound distorted, even if you're using an external DAC/AMP. This isn't something you can just check on a spec sheet but if you buy a laptop to work on audio this is important information. Actually maybe just add a full laptop bloatware test suite.
Does revo uninstaller get rid of it? I've never seen a program survive after revo, but I also worked with Dell and they will try their best to force you to keep their bloatware.
@@fateunleashed9680 The audio driver refuses to work if the program isn't there. If you install general drivers then there is no jack detection so you can't plug in earphones. But if you reboot with the earphones plugged in then it'll just work so dell just fabricated this way.
I don’t understand why the battery test is in a closed « chamber » cooled to maintain a certain temperature. The battery will consume less since components are cooled and fans are consuming less power
You know what might be out of scope but pretty cool to use the data creating a partpicker type dealio where you take your best value for your money components throw them into a configurator that can recommend changes based on performance and as youre consistently updating labs info and adding to the archive and creating an API that grabs part vaules from different vendors.
didn't think I'd enjoy this video as much as I did, the lab is super interesting and the team behind it looks passionate and robust. you don't notice the quality of ltt's testing until you watch other channels and get somewhat vague answers. thank's ltt!
LMAO!!!!! Why do LTT fans and LTT themselves always do this? They always try and Highlight they're better then the other when In reality they are not. They get a lot of stuff wrong and Their test Results are all over the place. The fact LTT Liked this comment too shows how much they think of themselves LMAO!!! Go watch Gamers Nexus for test or even the other ones. LTT is good for Entertaining content not actually Tech testing.
If it’s really good, and I mean really really good, I want to see Gary host a video on Battlemage GPUs, perhaps him hosting a review of what he finds in the labs about their performance.
Yeah, web content can impact hardware very differently. To the point that when I open twitter on Firefox, my laptop fans immediately get going. Doesn't happen the same with with many other sites, but just an example.
It'll be fun to have a competitor to Rtings for many products. Headphones like Bose, Sony, and Apple would be a fun test as it appears to be coming soon. You guys should put mouse coming soon too as there are no products to display.
Hey LTT, Great video! I can definitely see myself using the info on your new website to make future buying decisions, a great win for the community! I saw that you were building a sound chamber, which is a great benchmark given that that mic is really sensitive. Having said that though, I think making use of a Binaural Microphone for the test chamber makes more sense here since your ears are not in the center of the screen and the noise can actually be a little deceptive I think if captured by a single mic. Basically a binaural microphone are microphones within a mall of human ears so you have a head with anatomically correct ears and you have two very sensitive and specialised mics in the "ear" canals so you can perceive the audio as you would percieve it like you were there. I could see myself listening to noise clips from these mics to determine whether I find the noise acceptable or not. Because sometimes it is not really the dB level but more the pitch of the noise for example, which I reckon is determined by the shape of the fan(ducts). Being able to listen to short snippets of the noise would be a huge benefit for me. Moreover, I think it would then also be useful to make sort of "standard environments" like an office space or perhaps a small room that really captures the acoustics that will be faced by a lot of people, because measuring the noise coming from a device in a soundproof room is one thing, but it is another to actually measure it in a more or less standard environment where the acoustics of the room play a role in the amount of annoyance you will get from the device noise. Because I reckon that if the exhausts are directed in a certain way the reflection could become important for the user, say a small room vs a roomy office space. I totally understand that this all would require some more investments, but I think getting at least the binaural microphone would give a more accurate measure and would benefit the community probably more. In any case thank you all for being so awesome and good luck with finishing the lab! ❤
I hope the batterylife testing can be expanded one bit more. The near minimum power and max power are good but maybe something that is more balanced like having a web-browser open, a youtube video in the background and some other app open would be a decent middle ground for "typical use". Other than that, its already sounding pretty good. Look forward the the flir camera being implemented and everything else. Will be a great place to gauge hard specs of a laptop
Regarding endurance, do you verify that Optimus is enabled and that the GPU is disblabled? I think the power profile you people choose does but I just want to make sure 🙃. Also, I'd personnaly would like to know the power consumption of that laptop during the test. I feel that knowing power consumption (mean, max, min, standard deviation etc...) better allows me to identify ideal power limits for custom power profiles.
I don't like the test being a 720p youtube video. Is it VP9 or AV1? What if its encoding/bitrate changes? What if the buffering strategy changes? Ads, browser version etc, it's too variable of a thing and too long of a testing period, I think it will certainly vary enough to make the tests unreliable.
A-tier product placement, good job. You delivered the talking/selling points as expected, but it made total sense with the surrounding video and had 0 "here's the commercial" -bs on top.
A suggestion I have is to use binaural audio recording for your mic setup. Many laptops claim ‘surround sound’ or have uneven sound profiles (like a right fan louder than a left). Multi mic recording like this can also allow you to pinpoint the source of a sound by correlating the intensity of a sound in each mic and the distances between them. I would also argue that it would more accurately simulate what a user would experience with the hardware considering that we have two ears. Anyway, great to see you all upping your game. Very exciting stuff
Can you add Linux compatibility for software on labs. Example: Steelseries Apex 5 It needs custom software to setup macros, however it only works on macos and windows. Would be nice if you made them finally port over the software to linux! Also if you can include information such as USB passthrough. My current setup current relies on that
I doubt that they will test for Linux support. A proper check for linux support would take a lot of time with installing and testing many components, finally creating a feature matrix, and Linus wont think many viewers (and visitors of the website) would be interested. If you want a big list for Linux support in Laptops, Canonical has an enormous database on laptops that support Ubuntu (so very likely Linux in general)
@@tedzards509 I meant more on the labs website. Just listing if the software says it supports linux. They dont need to actually test that. Just like they currently do for windows and macos
Not really for Labs I'd fear, but I've long wanted info on the software side when reviewing gaming mice or keyboards. I play mmorpgs and use a lot of keybinding to extra buttons, sometimes a macro or 40, or switch to productivity and change profiles. The software options, or lack of, plays a large part in whether I'd keep using a brand.
This is great! Another thing to test is hinge durability, they have machines that will open and close a laptop hinge and graph out hinge fatigue over time. Some laptops will probably just break. Also maybe repeated drops 3 inches off a table.
Do you plan on having something like a brand trustworthiness rating? If a brand's claims about a product are accurate they get a good score and if the opposite is true they get a bad score. Edit: To be VERY clear. Some of these replies are misunderstanding my initial comment. I am talking about a brand's claims about their own product, not that product being a good or bad one compared to other products of the same category.
I think the problem with that would be that a new brand might get a bad score for their early products, then improve but still be affected by their old scores. Then you could include recency bias - only count the last year of product. But, some companies release dozens of laptops in that time, Framework releases a couple of high end ones.
I checked the website and i really like it, good work, i hope you achieve your vision in terms of equipement and methodology and test a lot of products!!
I work in a textile laboratory and I see many similarities to my work. Such climate chambers as shown in your video are usually intended for simulating extreme environmental conditions. Instead of these, we use a room which is permanently brought to a standard climate, this could be, for example, 20°C and 50% humidity. This way, several products could be tested in parallel. The climate chamber could thus be transferred to another use. Such a “climate room” in our company consists of a heating or air conditioning system and a humidifier or dehumidifier and many climate sensors which communicate with each other.
With all this effort I wonder how you’ve not mentioned how messed up the different Snapdragon X Elite/Plus SKU’s are due to fan limitations, yet Max Tech gave a great video on it.
I really hope you develop an endurance test for laptop hinges as well. I had the worst experience ever with an MSI Raider where the hinges would utterly wreck the plastic chassis and break the laptop. I lost count of the number of times I had to RMA my laptop only for it to break again a few months later, and sponsored video or not that experience has put me off MSI laptops for life!
I've never understood why they're always trying to do a new version of the hinge, instead of using the reliable designs over and over, and just testing new designs for a couple of years. It's such a strange thing to get wrong, given that there must be plenty of reliable, easy to use designs out there and probably some standout ones. Are you really going to be the engineer who invents the next great leap in hinge technology? It seems doubtful. Just assume that your new design for a better hinge, probably isn't going to work and don't put it in your expensive machines.
Sounds like it would be outside their scope. Probably easy enough to figure out a way to rig a robot arm to open and close the lid repeatedly, on a bench with some movable stoppers to keep it in place. Setting that up for each type of laptop would be a bit of pain, and easy to get the arm movement wrong by just enough to give a bad result. It would also need quite a long run time, since just continuously opening and closing it would likely introduce undue strain, but maybe could do a 30 second cycle for open to close and repeat. That over a 24 hour test, would give 1440 open and closings, which is quite neatly almost exactly the same as once a day for 4 years.
@@jonevansauthor The hinges themselves are actually perfectly fine and there's only minor changes to them, basically you can reconfigure the screw down points and that's it. The problem is specifically whole-enclosure design. Where you want THICK plastic around the hinges, to not allow brass inserts to break out, and enough rigidity as a whole, but that would add more weight, introduce dimples and waves in the casting, and make casting finer details more difficult. I actually think it's time for a new approach there somewhere, a completely new one. Like a laptop is expensive enough that they could afford an extra process to reinforce the area. The hinge problem is decades old at this point and it just keeps reappearing. Nobody wants a laptop that weighs extra 200g and is 1mm thicker. It only matters how it looks and feels on the store display, apparently, not whether it's actually usable as a computer to go.
I noticed that when a macbook was listed in battery life comparison, it was not set to low power mode while the windows laptops are set to battery saver mode. As a macbook for work and hp spectre for everything guy, I think its not fair especially because low power mode on arm macbooks has insane endurance!
I think something that may be worthwhile for keyboards & mice is their actual noise level. I have sensory issues and finding a silent mechanical keyboard that's ACTUALLY quiet enough to not bother me while typing has been a very hard challenge, I've found that Corsair is silent enough to not cause issues, but would like to not get stuck with one brand. Lot's of keyboards market themselves as silent or having silent switches, that end up being obnoxiously loud that I'm not even sure a typewriter compares. Not a huge thing, but would go a long way for those of us looking for silent keyboards that aren't just lies, without having to switch to a different type of keyboard & lose the tactile response of a mechanical.
I’d like to see some low temp stress tests (0- subzero temps) mostly because I work in construction and a lot of the Engineers and higher management staff will use mid to high range gaming laptops
Given the tests performed out in the open, it might be a good idea to have temperature probes at each bench that measure the ambient temperature of the room. It's stats for nerds, but it might come in handy if temps are disputed.
I hope you give meta scores too. I don't care about the colour curve details of laptop, just tell me if i can use it near a window without wanting to gouge my eyes out.
It would be interesting to see which laptop manufacturer comes pre-installed with software that greatly impacts performance. For example, compare how a laptop behaves out of the box and how it behaves after a clean windows install
You should also somehow measure the heat transfer on the ground under the laptop over a prolonged use period. People who use it on their lap can get burned without knowing it.
Are you guys going to make an llt labs channel and do quick shorts on each item with links to the place where all data is. So someone searching youtube for a device can find it thru RUclips search?
I think they've already done that for power supplies for that reason so I think it's safe to say that they'll be making videos as well as website articles.
I know the money involved is insane, but it blows my mind that nobody has really done something like this to this scale before. Most reviews for things like laptops, even from specific people whose opinions are worth a damn, are more of a vibe check than a rigorous data driven conclusion. I have no reason currently to think this will change, but the only way this can work in the long run is if the good will and trust LTT have accrued over the years will continue. Acting in good faith isn't hard to do yet many companies and individuals struggle with it nowadays. All in all, I'm excited to see more informative videos stem from these results, and appreciate the explanations and transparency about your testing methodology.
There aren't really many that could take the step to invest so heavily on something that. Certainly not all the equipment and the technicians at nearly the same time.
Take a look at RTINGS and Gamers Nexus. Both have done similar things although they don't all test the same stuff and not with the same amount of rigor
Would have preferred the sponsor bits to be a bit less heavy on a video like this. The amount of MSI BS throughout the video is a bit much when you're literally making a video about your unbiased testing lab. There are plenty of sponsor spots the channel does that wouldn't have include random MSI bullshit thats not related to the video.
i think you should add somthing with compiling code or software (ex. gentoo) and or engineering like cad, most people actually buying powerful "gaming" laptops are people that also do either of those thing that i mention earlier. yes, there are people that buy gaming laptop for gaming
Your review of the different snapdragon processes used the laptop uptime for how power efficient the processor was. But there’s so many other factors like battery size, LCD power efficient, resolution, etc. that effect those results
They specified the battery capacity in Wh allowing the viewer to have an idea of the overall machine efficiency, not a single person even enthusiasts will go as far as considering display efficiency.
@@HappySlappyFace it would make a lot of sense to rate the laptop on efficiency for the battery size though. You can look it up with electric (and petrol) cars - if they're more aerodynamic, and the mechanics and wheels are more efficient, you get more distance for your unit of power. No reason you can't do similar calculations for laptop or phone batteries.
Can you do a video on laptop power modes. I want to know if there is a actual measurable difference between Balanced, High Performance, and Extreme power profiles that are managed by Windows, which is different to the profiles in a tool like Armory crate or Msi Dragon software. I very much appreciated this video as I am a laptop enthusiast and I like to get the most preformance during charging, also maxing my fan RPM.
The only battery test is 720p video playback? That‘s awful. It uses specific hardware on the chip so it doesn‘t measure the CPU power usage at all really, and if one CPU doesn‘t have hardware for the specific format used and another does, it makes it totally useless for evaluating general endurance. I know this kinda testing is hard to do in little time, but that test is just not it.
Someone didn't watch the video. Apparently, you didn't see the part where they max everything and run dedicated GPU and CPU software to see how the laptop lasts under load.
That's all well and good, but what's the point? Some manufacturers do not hesitate to change certain components (screen, battery, etc.) without informing consumers and without changing the model number of the computer (or other device). Sometimes these changes occur after a few months, sometimes they depend on the region where the device is sold, and sometimes they are based on component availability. So in the end, you test a computer model, and later we find ourselves buying this same model but which was manufactured with different components than the one you tested...
Well, I can tell you the results on laptops right now. They are more expensive than laptops, speakers are worse than headphones or desk speakers, if you did use the speakers everyone in the coffee shop will hate you, the screens are tiny even if you get the largest one and useless for productivity, they can't take the heat, they come with manufactured e-waste trackpads instead of mice, if it says gaming on it that's the same as having a gaming mini-PC without a graphics card e.g. old and very low requirement games only for casual gaming, and it will turn out most people use them on the same desk all the time anyway. So yes, fundamentally pointless testing laptops because they're inherently garbage that has very limited use case and most people who own one, should have bought a desktop. But if you're going to test them, they are on the right path and as long as they can make money doing so and providing this information, that's fine. There's also no reason they couldn't have a section on LTT Labs where they point out significant hardware changes within a model if they are made aware of them (for instance, you might know in advance that the model sold in Asia is different to the NA one).
I remember Linus on a quest to track down the various versions of some SSD that kept the model number, but kept changing the components. I can't remember seeing a followup beyond that of the couple he had, they varied significantly. I guess the companies get away it by just changing a revision number, but it's a pretty low tactic when there's a large performance hit.
Seeing as how laptops seem to be the new hot thing, id love to see you test out laptop cooling pads. So many of them are scams, and actually blow air INTO the laptop, rather than helping to pull the hot air out.
0:56 You should not remove anything. Test it as shipped. If the manifacturer decides to worsen the performance / experience for a quick buck, they should get their reward for it with a worse score.
One thing that would be very useful to have on the labs website is a chapter by chapter technical explanation of methodology based on the type of device used. So that way anyone who wants to explore it for the first time and doesn’t have the pre-wreck requisite knowledge would be able to quantify what is being tested. Also, including why these metrics are important and then leaving the decision of to the user based on what they need. As well as maybe a forum area to discuss things that are topic based.
Thinking of this for why a certain test might exist for a GPU, or a CPU, to give a concise platform for understanding information and displaying that information.
can't wait to see more added on lttlabs, its gonna be such an awesome resource. well done to the whole team. 👏 (one suggestion after looking through the photos gallery of "In the Box" section, many dark areas are looking crushed and can't see details. Would be great to see products captured in a shooting tent/light box with even soft lighting/non distracting background to help capture photos.)
Compiling a simple C++ program could help with the load for CPU (would probably be considered a heavy load). You'd need to compile once with Conan/CMAKE before testing to download the dependencies first, then run the compiler each time. The run of Conan will clear out artifacts on new builds (though you can also just delete the build folder to make sure it's clean each time). Just an additional suggestion, but I think in general your testing is solid! 🙃
It might be nice if the page on the LTT Labs website shows how much (and which specific) bloatware had to be removed in order to set the laptop back to its “pristine” state for the best-efficiency power test
I'd suggest 1080p instead of 720p for video. With screen resolution so high these days, 720p would be the very low end & 1080p would be nice decent standard. Even for testing rpi or any fruit alternatives should have 1080p as base (and mobiles too)
Those black triangles do not absorb sound. You need actual sound absorptive materials like rockwool or sonopan or something more hefty. Sound absorption is *necessarily* associated with mass, so a flimsy sponge will NEVER absorb sound.
Add a true 'laptop' thermal stress test ie. set the laptop on cloth covered heating pad set to body temp... to simulate use on busses & trains & car pools etc without tray tables.
Why it took TWO YEARS to Build a Laptop Test Lab is a way better title, gives you an idea of the timeframe rather than the other one that was just "why its so hard to test laptops" or something
I clicked because linus was holding it with one hand in the thumbnail and I thought he might drop it in the video
I wish I could see the alternative thumbnails 'cause thats not what I got
it's clickbait.
Probably only in the long version on theire premium page thingy
I only kept watching because he was on the left
I only watched the entire video because the thumbnail showed Linus holding a small child and a nuclear reactor in his left hand.
Time for me to quit.
Nah but for real though this gives me some good ideas to improve!
If only some other RUclipsr could have looked at it the same way as you did…
@@manaylodha ahahahaha LMAO dude you made my day, you catch me weak with that one ahahahaha 😂
Nope we can't only trust one source keep doing what you do.
@@manaylodhawho was it? What’d i miss? I can’t find anything else?
@@JHarris I’m just making a joke on the GamerNexus complaining when one of the Labs employee had said to a visitor that LTT’s testing was the best in the industry and this made GamerNexus very mad and he made a video on it or something, I think this was before the LTT-GamerNexus drama
the ones that can burn your thighs off are the worst
fr
Any powerful one basically
@@stanislasflipo7214 Or weak but really small
So.... any good laptop?
@@onepunchman6165 MacBook pro may be the exception but you have to like apple
9:50 The Arc joke with Gary never gets old
Never fails to get a full laugh out of me
The April fools stockades joke was the best.
First time looking Gary, looks so sweet our dude.
Quite a hire, cool that he goes along with some of the sillyness there even though has been with a lot of serious companies.
@@benwu7980He’s not with intel anymore?
Y'all will probably think of this, but I don't like to assume anything... Please test fan noise levels with and without a charger plugged in. I have an HP laptop that is quiet enough while on battery power, but it gets SUPER loud when it's plugged in, even at idle with no programs open.
This applies to most laptops
On charge they pull more power and run at a higher performance
And thus, they heat up and fans work harder
Your HP is weird for doing it on idle, though
I feel like Steve (Gamers Nexus) will be doing something similar, if LABS doesn't.
As said, on battery a laptop will cut its performance down A LOT, so not unexpected that it's louder when plugged in. However, I will say that noise testing is probably #1 or #2 in my own priority for deciding on a laptop. Performance is important, but I'll take something less if it means it won't be a jet engine.
I have a big chonky ASUS with a 970M GPU, it doesn't get very loud at all and in its day could play anything. Got my wife an Omen with a 3070 and it sounds like a hair dryer, it's unusable loud. I wish it was twice as thick like the ASUS if it meant it didn't sound like that.
My Lenovo does it on idle too
@@bradhaines3142well that's the point - at least you had a game open
It was very cool to see our PAM mentioned for the power analysis side of their testing! I can't wait to see the results
Love what LTT is doing with the labs. We do need media teams who thoroughly test devices in a repeatable manner. I also really enjoy these behind the scenes type of videos that go over these processes.
Linus in a lab? Uh oh
Drops nitroglycerin
agree, never let a butter-finger camera staring NO situational aware screeches like a banshee at anything above ambient sound levels near testing labs. I wonder how many times his voice and reaching for his little indexing game controller dongle thing, screwed up someone's test.
They let him into a CPU fab plant and a GPU plant lol
A other two years added 😂to the testing
it's worse than that.... it's his own lab! he gets to go in here whenever he wants! Truly terrifying.
i did some signs for a company that does environmental testing various ways like defense aerospace space ect and they had tons of these giant chambers and its so weird being inside with the door closed. noise is just dead inside. It was awesome
$5300 for a max spec Titan 18 HX laptop. It's literally the most high end thing you can buy and I'm sure it will be just right for one type of person lol.
what do you mean by one person?
@@Pakistani890 That's all who'll be able to afford it.
@@Pakistani890 It means it is not two people.
Planned Target audience: People who want the most powerful laptop currently in existence
Actual Target audience: People who want to brag that they have the most powerful laptop in existence, then use it 5 hours a week to play Minecraft or Indie games
You can buy a (potentially slower) Macbook for more than that
9:07 who did the Pokemon drawings lol there lookin good!
I love the Derpy Bulba and Cyndaquil I want them
@@bittern4464 100% kinda want that in a new sticker pack!
@@MakeOrBreakSociety copyright surely wouldn't be a problem lmao
@@bittern4464 lol just change them enough. Seemed to work for palworld 😂
10:35 here’s something that would be really neat to include (and Notebookcheck does when they’re making laptop content instead of complaining about PS5 equivalents): coil whine. A lot of Thinkpads I’ve seen have no coil whine out-of-the-box, but as soon as you put a load, it gets coil whine that persists throughout the lifetime of the laptop; alternatively I’ve seen laptop docks make coil whine worse (possibly from a dock w/ really bad coil whine)
Maybe once the device goes through all the performance testing, have a test on coil whine during idle (load coil whine does occur more often but isn’t as big of an issue because the fans would be spinning)
Absolutely love Labs updates! Am wondering if it's possible to get more detail on any of the specific setups. There's so much cool tech in there and I'm sure also so many cool stories from the folks developing it that I would absolutely _love_ to hear each of the different Labs techs geek out about their particular niche for longer ❤
When I saw Linus hold the laptop with one hand without dropping it I almost thought it was a fake video
#lienus
its simply another take where he didnt drop it
There's no doubt that labs is one of the best things that has happened to the tech space, yes there is still a ton of work to do but even with what they currently have the amount of data that will be EASILY available to consumers is great. Keep the good work guys, you are AWESOME.
Nice. Just slapped my laptop and now it's blinking. Damn slaptop.
good luck buddy
Wait It's bLINKING
Ya it even made a little screaming noise . Like "Ack!" And turned red
rip hard drive?
It looked back and smiled I think it's ok
Hope the Labs guys love getting feedback cause HOLY this video already has a ton of suggestions. Good luck with this, guys! Looking forward to this, especially seeing the transparency with every single test!
Flippin love the labs updates
If you are to ever update your testing methodology further into the future, it would be lovely to have which revision of methods were used, in case you don't retest all previous devices.
Something you guys should add to the testing suite is audio (driver) performance. For example dell laptops such as the xps line post-process the crap out of your audio with their almost impossible to remove "waves maxxaudio" software, which makes any headphones/iems sound distorted, even if you're using an external DAC/AMP. This isn't something you can just check on a spec sheet but if you buy a laptop to work on audio this is important information. Actually maybe just add a full laptop bloatware test suite.
Does revo uninstaller get rid of it? I've never seen a program survive after revo, but I also worked with Dell and they will try their best to force you to keep their bloatware.
@@fateunleashed9680 The audio driver refuses to work if the program isn't there. If you install general drivers then there is no jack detection so you can't plug in earphones. But if you reboot with the earphones plugged in then it'll just work so dell just fabricated this way.
I don’t understand why the battery test is in a closed « chamber » cooled to maintain a certain temperature. The battery will consume less since components are cooled and fans are consuming less power
More Lab videos please!!
A livesteam staring through the window of the thermal chamber would feel just like work.
Agreed, they should make a seperate LTTLabs channel and post more bts/vlogs
You know what might be out of scope but pretty cool to use the data creating a partpicker type dealio where you take your best value for your money components throw them into a configurator that can recommend changes based on performance and as youre consistently updating labs info and adding to the archive and creating an API that grabs part vaules from different vendors.
didn't think I'd enjoy this video as much as I did, the lab is super interesting and the team behind it looks passionate and robust. you don't notice the quality of ltt's testing until you watch other channels and get somewhat vague answers. thank's ltt!
Kinda like today's "not just yet/ coming soon" answers huh?
LMAO!!!!! Why do LTT fans and LTT themselves always do this? They always try and Highlight they're better then the other when In reality they are not. They get a lot of stuff wrong and Their test Results are all over the place. The fact LTT Liked this comment too shows how much they think of themselves LMAO!!! Go watch Gamers Nexus for test or even the other ones. LTT is good for Entertaining content not actually Tech testing.
@@BU532 lmao Gamers Nexus is absolute shit. not scientific at all
@@BU532bro didn't they make a comeback? Whatever was in the past, LTT is improving on it
@@paradoxine6287I agree. They've invested a hefty sum to provide us consumers objective data to utilize in considering what to purchase.
I love the Gary Arc timeline
The fun with that running gag is one of things I'll be looking forward to with release of Battlemage, just to see how they continue it
If it’s really good, and I mean really really good, I want to see Gary host a video on Battlemage GPUs, perhaps him hosting a review of what he finds in the labs about their performance.
Can we get a battery test consisting of eight chrome tabs and a Word doc?
I feel like the real killer would be how complex those tabs are.
Yeah, web content can impact hardware very differently. To the point that when I open twitter on Firefox, my laptop fans immediately get going. Doesn't happen the same with with many other sites, but just an example.
It'll be fun to have a competitor to Rtings for many products. Headphones like Bose, Sony, and Apple would be a fun test as it appears to be coming soon. You guys should put mouse coming soon too as there are no products to display.
Nice setup. I love the quiet room, looking forward to seeing what whacky videos Dennis can cook up with it.
PLEASE dont forget to test the screen hinges. They broke on my last three laptops. But thanks for your videos and i am looking forward to the tests.
Hey LTT,
Great video! I can definitely see myself using the info on your new website to make future buying decisions, a great win for the community!
I saw that you were building a sound chamber, which is a great benchmark given that that mic is really sensitive. Having said that though, I think making use of a Binaural Microphone for the test chamber makes more sense here since your ears are not in the center of the screen and the noise can actually be a little deceptive I think if captured by a single mic. Basically a binaural microphone are microphones within a mall of human ears so you have a head with anatomically correct ears and you have two very sensitive and specialised mics in the "ear" canals so you can perceive the audio as you would percieve it like you were there. I could see myself listening to noise clips from these mics to determine whether I find the noise acceptable or not. Because sometimes it is not really the dB level but more the pitch of the noise for example, which I reckon is determined by the shape of the fan(ducts). Being able to listen to short snippets of the noise would be a huge benefit for me.
Moreover, I think it would then also be useful to make sort of "standard environments" like an office space or perhaps a small room that really captures the acoustics that will be faced by a lot of people, because measuring the noise coming from a device in a soundproof room is one thing, but it is another to actually measure it in a more or less standard environment where the acoustics of the room play a role in the amount of annoyance you will get from the device noise. Because I reckon that if the exhausts are directed in a certain way the reflection could become important for the user, say a small room vs a roomy office space.
I totally understand that this all would require some more investments, but I think getting at least the binaural microphone would give a more accurate measure and would benefit the community probably more.
In any case thank you all for being so awesome and good luck with finishing the lab! ❤
I appreciate the hard work on ltt labs
No link in the description to the labs website.... :P
I see it in there. But it should definitely be closer to the top
@@CaraiCuebiyar Yeah, they must've added it later. :) Wasn't there when I looked.
LINUS holded the laptop in one hand and didnt drop , he is EVOLVING
I hope the batterylife testing can be expanded one bit more. The near minimum power and max power are good but maybe something that is more balanced like having a web-browser open, a youtube video in the background and some other app open would be a decent middle ground for "typical use". Other than that, its already sounding pretty good. Look forward the the flir camera being implemented and everything else. Will be a great place to gauge hard specs of a laptop
For Desktop replacements you could add a folding@home test.
Regarding endurance, do you verify that Optimus is enabled and that the GPU is disblabled? I think the power profile you people choose does but I just want to make sure 🙃. Also, I'd personnaly would like to know the power consumption of that laptop during the test. I feel that knowing power consumption (mean, max, min, standard deviation etc...) better allows me to identify ideal power limits for custom power profiles.
These are all solid suggestions! I hope they notice this comment
I don't like the test being a 720p youtube video. Is it VP9 or AV1? What if its encoding/bitrate changes? What if the buffering strategy changes? Ads, browser version etc, it's too variable of a thing and too long of a testing period, I think it will certainly vary enough to make the tests unreliable.
@@handle32169 I'd love to see your work, it must be close to perfection.
@@tempacc9589 I agree. Most of the people don't go to such extremes with their laptops.
@@handle32169 what do you propose for a "light use" endurance test?
A-tier product placement, good job. You delivered the talking/selling points as expected, but it made total sense with the surrounding video and had 0 "here's the commercial" -bs on top.
Huge improvement in transparency and the metodology, mostly appreciated!
A suggestion I have is to use binaural audio recording for your mic setup. Many laptops claim ‘surround sound’ or have uneven sound profiles (like a right fan louder than a left). Multi mic recording like this can also allow you to pinpoint the source of a sound by correlating the intensity of a sound in each mic and the distances between them. I would also argue that it would more accurately simulate what a user would experience with the hardware considering that we have two ears.
Anyway, great to see you all upping your game. Very exciting stuff
Can you add Linux compatibility for software on labs.
Example: Steelseries Apex 5
It needs custom software to setup macros, however it only works on macos and windows.
Would be nice if you made them finally port over the software to linux!
Also if you can include information such as USB passthrough. My current setup current relies on that
I doubt that they will test for Linux support. A proper check for linux support would take a lot of time with installing and testing many components, finally creating a feature matrix, and Linus wont think many viewers (and visitors of the website) would be interested.
If you want a big list for Linux support in Laptops, Canonical has an enormous database on laptops that support Ubuntu (so very likely Linux in general)
@@tedzards509 I meant more on the labs website. Just listing if the software says it supports linux. They dont need to actually test that. Just like they currently do for windows and macos
Not really for Labs I'd fear, but I've long wanted info on the software side when reviewing gaming mice or keyboards. I play mmorpgs and use a lot of keybinding to extra buttons, sometimes a macro or 40, or switch to productivity and change profiles.
The software options, or lack of, plays a large part in whether I'd keep using a brand.
"How LTT Labs Tests Laptops" is a better tittle. Thanks DeArrow guy! :D
I'm so excited for labs. It's going to be such an amazing service to the community. Massive props to you all! Keep up the good work!
This is great! Another thing to test is hinge durability, they have machines that will open and close a laptop hinge and graph out hinge fatigue over time. Some laptops will probably just break. Also maybe repeated drops 3 inches off a table.
Do you plan on having something like a brand trustworthiness rating? If a brand's claims about a product are accurate they get a good score and if the opposite is true they get a bad score.
Edit: To be VERY clear. Some of these replies are misunderstanding my initial comment. I am talking about a brand's claims about their own product, not that product being a good or bad one compared to other products of the same category.
Interesting...
IMO, brand doesn't matter. Only the individual product does. Buying based off brand is the worst thing to do.
@@Hathos9 Very true, every company known for making good products has some misses and vice versa.
considering the video its self is sponsored by a laptop mfg... i wouldnt hold your breath
I think the problem with that would be that a new brand might get a bad score for their early products, then improve but still be affected by their old scores. Then you could include recency bias - only count the last year of product. But, some companies release dozens of laptops in that time, Framework releases a couple of high end ones.
Gary's devotion to arc really makes me want to try one.
I checked the website and i really like it, good work, i hope you achieve your vision in terms of equipement and methodology and test a lot of products!!
every episode, mindboggling level , seriously impressive amount of schitzo talk ! (exclamation point) (4xROFL)
I work in a textile laboratory and I see many similarities to my work.
Such climate chambers as shown in your video are usually intended for simulating extreme environmental conditions. Instead of these, we use a room which is permanently brought to a standard climate, this could be, for example, 20°C and 50% humidity. This way, several products could be tested in parallel. The climate chamber could thus be transferred to another use. Such a “climate room” in our company consists of a heating or air conditioning system and a humidifier or dehumidifier and many climate sensors which communicate with each other.
With all this effort I wonder how you’ve not mentioned how messed up the different Snapdragon X Elite/Plus SKU’s are due to fan limitations, yet Max Tech gave a great video on it.
How is the labs website not linked in the description??
Two years and the testing setup and methodology of Notebookcheck is still WAY better lol
9:20 Press F for poor Gary. 669th comment. Nice!
I really hope you develop an endurance test for laptop hinges as well. I had the worst experience ever with an MSI Raider where the hinges would utterly wreck the plastic chassis and break the laptop. I lost count of the number of times I had to RMA my laptop only for it to break again a few months later, and sponsored video or not that experience has put me off MSI laptops for life!
I've never understood why they're always trying to do a new version of the hinge, instead of using the reliable designs over and over, and just testing new designs for a couple of years. It's such a strange thing to get wrong, given that there must be plenty of reliable, easy to use designs out there and probably some standout ones. Are you really going to be the engineer who invents the next great leap in hinge technology? It seems doubtful. Just assume that your new design for a better hinge, probably isn't going to work and don't put it in your expensive machines.
Sounds like it would be outside their scope. Probably easy enough to figure out a way to rig a robot arm to open and close the lid repeatedly, on a bench with some movable stoppers to keep it in place. Setting that up for each type of laptop would be a bit of pain, and easy to get the arm movement wrong by just enough to give a bad result.
It would also need quite a long run time, since just continuously opening and closing it would likely introduce undue strain, but maybe could do a 30 second cycle for open to close and repeat. That over a 24 hour test, would give 1440 open and closings, which is quite neatly almost exactly the same as once a day for 4 years.
Yes, absolutely. They even have machines that do this and can graph hinge fatigue over time.
The problem is in controlled environment hinge would probably last for ever but each person will wear those devices differently too many variable.
@@jonevansauthor The hinges themselves are actually perfectly fine and there's only minor changes to them, basically you can reconfigure the screw down points and that's it. The problem is specifically whole-enclosure design. Where you want THICK plastic around the hinges, to not allow brass inserts to break out, and enough rigidity as a whole, but that would add more weight, introduce dimples and waves in the casting, and make casting finer details more difficult. I actually think it's time for a new approach there somewhere, a completely new one. Like a laptop is expensive enough that they could afford an extra process to reinforce the area. The hinge problem is decades old at this point and it just keeps reappearing. Nobody wants a laptop that weighs extra 200g and is 1mm thicker. It only matters how it looks and feels on the store display, apparently, not whether it's actually usable as a computer to go.
I noticed that when a macbook was listed in battery life comparison, it was not set to low power mode while the windows laptops are set to battery saver mode. As a macbook for work and hp spectre for everything guy, I think its not fair especially because low power mode on arm macbooks has insane endurance!
Please keep doing what your doing looking forward to the lab in full force thanks for the updates and keep working hard guys
I think something that may be worthwhile for keyboards & mice is their actual noise level. I have sensory issues and finding a silent mechanical keyboard that's ACTUALLY quiet enough to not bother me while typing has been a very hard challenge, I've found that Corsair is silent enough to not cause issues, but would like to not get stuck with one brand. Lot's of keyboards market themselves as silent or having silent switches, that end up being obnoxiously loud that I'm not even sure a typewriter compares. Not a huge thing, but would go a long way for those of us looking for silent keyboards that aren't just lies, without having to switch to a different type of keyboard & lose the tactile response of a mechanical.
Is it possible to test battery degradation?
Sample size of one wouldn't tell much.
I’d like to see some low temp stress tests (0- subzero temps) mostly because I work in construction and a lot of the Engineers and higher management staff will use mid to high range gaming laptops
You guys are next level stuff, as always. I trust you for like a decade since I started watching you, keep it up! You do good for this industry
Given the tests performed out in the open, it might be a good idea to have temperature probes at each bench that measure the ambient temperature of the room. It's stats for nerds, but it might come in handy if temps are disputed.
I hope you give meta scores too. I don't care about the colour curve details of laptop, just tell me if i can use it near a window without wanting to gouge my eyes out.
What are meta scores?
It would be interesting to see which laptop manufacturer comes pre-installed with software that greatly impacts performance. For example, compare how a laptop behaves out of the box and how it behaves after a clean windows install
Cool, Labs is starting to take off. Love to see it.
You should also somehow measure the heat transfer on the ground under the laptop over a prolonged use period. People who use it on their lap can get burned without knowing it.
Are you guys going to make an llt labs channel and do quick shorts on each item with links to the place where all data is. So someone searching youtube for a device can find it thru RUclips search?
I think they've already done that for power supplies for that reason so I think it's safe to say that they'll be making videos as well as website articles.
For laptop fan noise, please try to publish a spectrum together with the dB value.
Happy this is progressing, but the amount of sponsor moments (internal + MSI) in this is insane
It's a commercial, so...
Its because all that testing and machines are very expensive. Be thankful we can watch all of it for free
Doing a fresh install but not adjusting the fans at all feels like an inconsistency to me.
3 laptop videos back to back
This one is paid for
2 videos, 1 stream
Well Canadians do like the hat trick
Laptops winning
@@NizaSiwale and?
I’ve clicked on this video twice, I prefer the title about how it took 2 years to build the lab, more than, “it was hard”
Very exciting to see this come together!
I still don't understand how the labs make a financial sense, but I am glad we will have reliable data source when buying tech.
I know the money involved is insane, but it blows my mind that nobody has really done something like this to this scale before.
Most reviews for things like laptops, even from specific people whose opinions are worth a damn, are more of a vibe check than a rigorous data driven conclusion.
I have no reason currently to think this will change, but the only way this can work in the long run is if the good will and trust LTT have accrued over the years will continue.
Acting in good faith isn't hard to do yet many companies and individuals struggle with it nowadays.
All in all, I'm excited to see more informative videos stem from these results, and appreciate the explanations and transparency about your testing methodology.
There aren't really many that could take the step to invest so heavily on something that. Certainly not all the equipment and the technicians at nearly the same time.
Take a look at RTINGS and Gamers Nexus. Both have done similar things although they don't all test the same stuff and not with the same amount of rigor
You should contact a few of the major manufacturers to try and get 'LTT lab validated' scores on new laptops. Could be a good side hustle.
Anyone else find the choice to make this video a lengthy ad spot for MSI a bit out of touch? It doesn't really shout independent reviewer.
The LTT lab initiative is great, but I think put MSI laptop as a sponsor product for this video wasn't a good call
Would have preferred the sponsor bits to be a bit less heavy on a video like this. The amount of MSI BS throughout the video is a bit much when you're literally making a video about your unbiased testing lab. There are plenty of sponsor spots the channel does that wouldn't have include random MSI bullshit thats not related to the video.
i think you should add somthing with compiling code or software (ex. gentoo) and or engineering like cad, most people actually buying powerful "gaming" laptops are people that also do either of those thing that i mention earlier. yes, there are people that buy gaming laptop for gaming
Your review of the different snapdragon processes used the laptop uptime for how power efficient the processor was. But there’s so many other factors like battery size, LCD power efficient, resolution, etc. that effect those results
They specified the battery capacity in Wh allowing the viewer to have an idea of the overall machine efficiency, not a single person even enthusiasts will go as far as considering display efficiency.
@@HappySlappyFace it would make a lot of sense to rate the laptop on efficiency for the battery size though. You can look it up with electric (and petrol) cars - if they're more aerodynamic, and the mechanics and wheels are more efficient, you get more distance for your unit of power. No reason you can't do similar calculations for laptop or phone batteries.
Can you do a video on laptop power modes. I want to know if there is a actual measurable difference between Balanced, High Performance, and Extreme power profiles that are managed by Windows, which is different to the profiles in a tool like Armory crate or Msi Dragon software. I very much appreciated this video as I am a laptop enthusiast and I like to get the most preformance during charging, also maxing my fan RPM.
The only battery test is 720p video playback? That‘s awful. It uses specific hardware on the chip so it doesn‘t measure the CPU power usage at all really, and if one CPU doesn‘t have hardware for the specific format used and another does, it makes it totally useless for evaluating general endurance. I know this kinda testing is hard to do in little time, but that test is just not it.
There is also a stress test to see battery life when under load.
Someone didn't watch the video. Apparently, you didn't see the part where they max everything and run dedicated GPU and CPU software to see how the laptop lasts under load.
14:28 LOL that one drop of spit on the lens
That's all well and good, but what's the point? Some manufacturers do not hesitate to change certain components (screen, battery, etc.) without informing consumers and without changing the model number of the computer (or other device). Sometimes these changes occur after a few months, sometimes they depend on the region where the device is sold, and sometimes they are based on component availability. So in the end, you test a computer model, and later we find ourselves buying this same model but which was manufactured with different components than the one you tested...
If you buy one down the line you can test against their results to make sure you are getting the product you expected....
It's never gonna be perfect but saying there's no point is laughable.
Well, I can tell you the results on laptops right now. They are more expensive than laptops, speakers are worse than headphones or desk speakers, if you did use the speakers everyone in the coffee shop will hate you, the screens are tiny even if you get the largest one and useless for productivity, they can't take the heat, they come with manufactured e-waste trackpads instead of mice, if it says gaming on it that's the same as having a gaming mini-PC without a graphics card e.g. old and very low requirement games only for casual gaming, and it will turn out most people use them on the same desk all the time anyway.
So yes, fundamentally pointless testing laptops because they're inherently garbage that has very limited use case and most people who own one, should have bought a desktop. But if you're going to test them, they are on the right path and as long as they can make money doing so and providing this information, that's fine.
There's also no reason they couldn't have a section on LTT Labs where they point out significant hardware changes within a model if they are made aware of them (for instance, you might know in advance that the model sold in Asia is different to the NA one).
@@jonevansauthor Just because you don’t care about laptops doesn’t mean others don’t. Simple solution: just ignore the laptop testing.
I remember Linus on a quest to track down the various versions of some SSD that kept the model number, but kept changing the components. I can't remember seeing a followup beyond that of the couple he had, they varied significantly.
I guess the companies get away it by just changing a revision number, but it's a pretty low tactic when there's a large performance hit.
Seeing as how laptops seem to be the new hot thing, id love to see you test out laptop cooling pads. So many of them are scams, and actually blow air INTO the laptop, rather than helping to pull the hot air out.
0:56 You should not remove anything. Test it as shipped. If the manifacturer decides to worsen the performance / experience for a quick buck, they should get their reward for it with a worse score.
Heck yes!!! you guys are awesome!!
15 minute MSI ad disguised as talking about testing laptops.
this
Because all their testing and machines cost a lot of money. Be thankful you can watch their videos for free
One thing that would be very useful to have on the labs website is a chapter by chapter technical explanation of methodology based on the type of device used. So that way anyone who wants to explore it for the first time and doesn’t have the pre-wreck requisite knowledge would be able to quantify what is being tested. Also, including why these metrics are important and then leaving the decision of to the user based on what they need. As well as maybe a forum area to discuss things that are topic based.
Thinking of this for why a certain test might exist for a GPU, or a CPU, to give a concise platform for understanding information and displaying that information.
It would be helpful if you could share the time needed on average to complete this comprehensive testing for each laptop.
Is there any other company RUclips or not that provide this level of testing? It’s quite impressive to see
GN
MSI must be paying big for this vid, has anyone count how many times they have mention “stealth 18 AI studio”?
can't wait to see more added on lttlabs, its gonna be such an awesome resource. well done to the whole team. 👏 (one suggestion after looking through the photos gallery of "In the Box" section, many dark areas are looking crushed and can't see details. Would be great to see products captured in a shooting tent/light box with even soft lighting/non distracting background to help capture photos.)
Compiling a simple C++ program could help with the load for CPU (would probably be considered a heavy load). You'd need to compile once with Conan/CMAKE before testing to download the dependencies first, then run the compiler each time. The run of Conan will clear out artifacts on new builds (though you can also just delete the build folder to make sure it's clean each time). Just an additional suggestion, but I think in general your testing is solid! 🙃
It might be nice if the page on the LTT Labs website shows how much (and which specific) bloatware had to be removed in order to set the laptop back to its “pristine” state for the best-efficiency power test
I'd suggest 1080p instead of 720p for video. With screen resolution so high these days, 720p would be the very low end & 1080p would be nice decent standard. Even for testing rpi or any fruit alternatives should have 1080p as base (and mobiles too)
Those black triangles do not absorb sound. You need actual sound absorptive materials like rockwool or sonopan or something more hefty. Sound absorption is *necessarily* associated with mass, so a flimsy sponge will NEVER absorb sound.
Add a true 'laptop' thermal stress test ie. set the laptop on cloth covered heating pad set to body temp... to simulate use on busses & trains & car pools etc without tray tables.
Why it took TWO YEARS to Build a Laptop Test Lab is a way better title, gives you an idea of the timeframe rather than the other one that was just "why its so hard to test laptops" or something
I use furmark on all my PC for years and it does a great job for CPU and GPU tests.
After taking a year break from Linus, I can safely say things feel like the old times again