'Wasted Potential' in Danganronpa
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- Опубликовано: 25 янв 2024
- PATREON: / detectivenyx
DONATE: streamlabs.com/dapoppy42
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this video is a bit more freeform thoughts on the phrase 'wasted potential' and how i feel towards it in this year of 2024 and what i think it adds (or doesn't add) to the discussion of the narrative. i mean i scripted out my freeform thoughts, but it's not like, Big Video Essay despite the length, if that makes sense.
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finished artwork: cohost.org/detectivenyx/post/... 
Игры
My main gripes about Taka are
1. They didn't really flesh out him and Mondo's relationship, they only had one day to vibe, which is weird since the first chapter was more spaced out.
2. They didn't let him greive. Taka had depression, but the second he sees that computer, his entire character went out the window. They basically reset him by making him go super sayan. It's a little upsetting seeing your favorite character get changed completely so they can just get the arc over with before they kill him off.
3. Nobody acknowledged his death. Aoi Asahina cried over Hifumi, but literally couldn't care less about Taka.
It felt less like tragically stopping his ark before it was over so it was thematic, and more like they just wanted to get it over with halfway through so they decided to rush it by using Deus EX Alter Ego.
I'm not upset that he died, he'd just be a worse fuyuhiko if he did live til the end. I'm upset because they had a decent arc, but then messed it all up at the most important part.
Taka’s Free Time Events show that he didn’t really have much friends in the past. So I’m guessing he got clingy and defensive towards Mondo and got in denial over him being a killer was due to Mondo being his first proper friend in a while.
@kaylemathewcomendador6964 I know that, and it is true, but I feel like they could've at least maybe had a few free time events afterwards? I dunno, it just feels like it went too fast
@@monoduck You can’t just do Free Time Events of the guys that just died.
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 I mean after they become friends and before chihro died, sorry if it wasn't clearer!
You know who else has wasted potential in a series..........My Uncle John. He's a good guy.
meow meow meow meow meow
I read "he's a good gay"
John really was the ultimate uncle
Sometimes the tragedy of a life so full of possibilities cut short IS the point. Not that killing characters should be leaned on as a writing crutch, but in a series like this, death and especially the abruptness of it is one of the tools the creators have used to establish the tone and themes. It's one of the reasons why the chatacters are high schoolers. Old enough to be cognizant of themselves and the situation they've found themselves in, but still young enough that the concept of them dying, even the ones you may not personally like, is one loaded with emotion. They're just kids, they haven't even graduated high school yet, there's so much room for them to learn and grow and become their true selves. And only five (or three) of them will live long enough to see it.
Tl;dr why are we all picking up a piece of media with the word TRAGEDY written across the front in bold red font, and then being mad when the contents inside are just that?
I say the same kinda thing XD if you want dangonrompa without the tragedy you just want to fetishize teen murder
I agree with you, Nyx, Sayaka had a role, and honestly, she delivered, it's true that I wanted her to survive too, but like you said, Sayaka left an important legacy and message in the games, good people like her can do bad things in horrible situations to save the people they love from death, even when they were regretting what they did, just like in Sayaka's case, and that doesn't make them horrible persons, just flawed human beings, Makoto understands this, and it's pretty much thanks to Sayaka, the girl he loved and loved him back in his school days (Monochrome answer, a canon love song Sayaka made for Makoto to tell him she truly loved him before the tragedy, being the ultimate evidence, confirmed by Sayaka's japanese VA), and Makoto never forgot Sayaka either, and besides, we have the AUs like IF and danganronpa S where she is still alive and sharing more sweet moments with Makoto.
I see so many people say a character has “wasted potential” just because they died early on in their respective series. Just because a character dies off early doesn’t mean their potential was wasted, they either did what their character was designed to do or they’re not reading the character correctly.
What abt hiyoko
i would argue several characters that survived had wasted potential
i would argue the two options of "thats how they written to be" or "you read it wrong" is literally the same thing and shuts the door for critique or interpertation
i don't really believe in "wasted potential" in this context but rather alternative ways that are interesting, people often talk about "wasted characters" in the context of survivers that they don't like
@@wpbn5613
Like 4/5 of the survivors from DR2?
Also since you mentioned branching narratives, Night In The Woods offers some very interesting choices in setting some of the major themes... def check it out
I'll try to check it out!
@@DetectiveNyx Also, there's this game called process of elimination that I think is really interesting and has well developed themes. sorry
Wasted potential
Byakuya Togami-ultimate imposter
Leon kuwata-ultimate baseball star
Hiyoko saonji-ultimate traditional dancer
⭐️
My favorite character is Yasuhiro Hagakure
He's funny. He's a charlatain. He probably smokes pot.
He's as shallow of a character as you can get, but he's always there if you need a ray of sunshine among all of Danganronpa's death and pink blood.
However, your video made me think about some ways to improve his character, and, as much as I love the fact he survived, I came to the conclusion that he would serve better as a victim. And I have the perfect motive.
Yasuhiro spent all his life fooling people with fake prophecies. So, if he actually predicted something right for once, nobody would believe him. A tragedy could end up happening, and a person, feeling guilty for not preventing the incident, would turn their anger and frustration towards Hagakure and would attack him.
It would be pretty ironic for Yasuhiro, a person that always makes mistakes at his work, to die because he got something right.
this discussion of 'wasted potential' reminds me of a character from an old draft of my fangan. throughout chapter 1, there was a character built up to be the antagonist. he had the opposite stance on the themes of the fangan than the protag, he was incredibly vindictive, and his refusal to so much as acknowledge that the first blackened ever even existed was novel. and then he was the victim of the second case, not even having been targeted for any of the above reasons, his life being cut short before he could have either a redemption for a fall. some may few this as a classic case of a character with wasted potential, but his death plays into the themes of the fangan. one of the fangan's themes was how one's past defines their future, and with his refusal to move on from his past, he was stuck there. ultimately, the killer of this case intended to kill 2 people, but the other was able to avoid the trap in large part due to his drive to move forward (I swear, it's less cheesy in the moment), while the victim was unable to. and while this is imo the worst case I've ever written, it was due to other issues, rather than the victim having 'wasted potential' (those issues being breakneck pacing, confusing/nonsensical motive, fridging the killer, weird case logic, and the fact that a wheelchair bound character got up a flight of stairs with the only explanation being "somehow" (which does fall under weird case logic, but I think it deserved its own point)).
As much as I love Mahiru, her dying was not the issue. It was essential for Hiyoko’s character arc. The problem was the writers never allowed for Hiyoko to complete her character arc, and all because they didn’t want to turn Fuyuhiko into a robot in Chapter 4.
I think it would’ve been better for Sonia to die in chapter 3, because I genuinely can not think of anything she adds to the narrative outside some comedy. Kazuichi could’ve mourned her death, Hiyoko could’ve tried to make amends with Kazuichi and Akane (two of the characters she bullied most besides Mikan), Fuyuhiko and Hiyoko could’ve had some interesting moments about how they both lost loved ones to both tragedies they were involved in. I don’t know. I just think Hiyoko should’ve survived over Sonia.
@@Reynbow11037 i agree, i love sonia but i think hiyoko is a better survivor, plus i wanna see her insult junko
Agreed, I’m a big fan of Mahiru but in any situation except if she was a switch protagonist or protagonist I don’t see her living to have a full on arc and if anything her death is so necessary to the games motive
I love the Imposter! They are one of my favourite characters in the series and I'm glad you brought them up. Like you said, I thought that they were Byakuya initially (and I also thought that Nagito was Makoto in disguise, but Trial 1 shattered that for me kjsdhfkdsj). But now I know differently, I can look at them with fresh eyes and realise how much I connected with them. This character may have been the first victim but was smart, brave and caring, and saw the best in the person they were imitating (though this was different to what Byakuya was like in his killing game). In a way I find relatable, they did not feel that they could show their true self to others, but was anticipating opening up to Hajime in the future. I wouldn't consider them wasted potential because of how much they did, and how they impacted on me in the short time that they were there. Some characters who I would consider wasted potential are those who had a lot more chapters to change/develop, but didn't really do so as much as I would expected (I love and appreciate Sonia, for instance, but I would put her here, and to me Keebo/Tsumugi are quite static and dull until Chapter 6). I wish that Angie had gotten to do more - it would have been great to see the cult try to steer a trial, for example - and I would have loved to have seen Kiyo be a foil to players like Kokichi while not having *that* motive. But those are just subjective choices on my end. Also I love your Angie art, it's so pretty!
Edit: on the subject of Kiyo, one of the things I love about SDR2 is that it shows characters who stay alive despite being responsible for the deaths of others. Nagito tries to start the killing game which indirectly gets the Imposter killed, and even tells the other characters that they're free to kill him if they want to. How the others (especially Hajime) react to him throughout the game is fascinating to watch. Fuyuhiko is jointly responsible for Mahiru's death, and gets slowly earned moments of redemption. As for Kiyo in V3 through... once he had that murder and *that* motive reveal, I couldn't see him sticking around for very long and idk how his character could have changed. I reckon that if he didn't get executed in Chapter 3, soon afterwards he'd likely be murdered by Miu (as she was looking for someone to kill and he would be by far the least sympathetic victim) or executed as a culprit (as he had little left to hide or lose). So based on what the writers did with Kiyo's character, imo the Chapter 3 execution was the right time for him to go.
I agree with what you’re saying,
As a Mikan fan, I wanted Mikan to survive but I understand her position within chapter 3, even if they fucked her up in the last moments
Spoilers for SDR2 Chapter 3
As much as I would've loved for Ibuki to survive, having her die in Chapter 3 made a lot more sense, as she doesn't have much narrative relevance, especially as the killing game continues. Not to mention that from my perspective, her death marked a tonal shift in the story, going from a still murderous but mostly upbeat tropical setting, to a more depressing and gritty tone as more clues show up and bigger twists are revealed. I know not everyone likes this chapter, but I think it's an essential segway into the later game.
Agreed, Ibuki’s death symbolises that there’s no hope no matter how much fun you have to recover it.
Fits pretty well
I guess ill try for hiyoko
Her death symbolizes that no matter how much you try to change or become a better person. Death doesn't care?
Even though it doesn't at all read like that to the ordinary person because nobody freaking cared about her death and didn't care/didn't realize she was slowly trying to change
@@wizardkumaanimations9984 nope.
Swap Hiyoko with Sonia and it becomes this,
Simping for a princess and fighting their lover isn’t worth anything, which can lead to Kazuichi’s cooperation with Gundham
@@wizardkumaanimations9984 Hiyoko never tried to become better. If she did she would apologize to everyone especially Mikan for bullying but she didn't.
@@Alexandra_Westheart That's why i said it doesn't read like that
Since all we got was one scene of her maybe sorta kinda a little somewhat try to be better by going to fuyuhikos whatever it was (i forgot)
The real wasted potential, despite being one of my favourites, is Tsumugi Shirogane. And it’s solely based on the fact there’s no proper build up to her being the mastermind of v3. When it’s revealed, nobody is shocked because nobody cares about her character, she just exists so that there can be someone to be the mastermind. And I don’t really like that
Junko, or mukuro even, had a few hints she was the mastermind, by dying without being a victim or culprit of a case and some of her words “this wasn’t supposed to happen” and her comments about photoshop and how that’s why she looks slightly different
I’d argue hajime not having a talent and wanting one is some sort of evidence behind him being izuru kamakura, dr2s mastermind. It’s because he’s the odd one out, the only one without a proper talent, Kyoto at least gets revealed to be the ultimate detective.
Tsumugi gets no progression where you react shockingly when figuring out she’s the mastermind. She shows no massive interest in Kaede or shuichi which could’ve been some sort of hint. The only thing I can think of is her reference to doraemon episode 53, because v3 is danganronpas 53rd season but that’s about it and it’s incredibly irrelevant. The only time where people call her suspicious at any point during the game is the final trial, and even then there’s no real build up to her being the mastermind.
There’s a lot of stuff they could’ve done with Tsumug based around having her become completely hopeless because her work of fiction, danganronpa, is coming to an end whereas junko looks forward to her death as it’s the final despair someone can feel.
It’d be really interesting to see your take on an analysis video of her because I think there’s a lot that could’ve been done with her, it just wasn’t
I think the reasons why the deaths in this franchise are so impactful is BECAUSE of the potential for growth and development these characters have. One character’s death feels like a potential story prematurely coming to a close, but that is just the nature of this franchise. If these characters were just one-dimensional tropes (like a lot of the haters of this franchise tend to say about these characters), then the deaths would feel artificial and empty rather than tragic. Don’t get me wrong, there are characters that I do wish got to survive their games or be around for a longer period of time, but that just isn’t what the franchise is meant to be.
Happy to see your analysis videos come back :>
I have to agree but there's just one character that i feel had wasted potential truly
Hiyoko
Because her death didn't do... Anything
Nobody even cared to give it a second thought
She didn't HAVE to survive
She could survive for one more trial or even just still die at ch 3
Her trying to be a better person had potential and should have been utilized more
All we got was one scene of her maybe sorta trying to somewhat change
I would love for her to be a part of the surviving cast but
Her just going to fuyuhiko before she died and apologizing like
"Don't tell anybody i said this but... I'm sorry" and him understanding would have been great
And he could notice her kimono not being on right and telling her there's a mirror in the (i forget what it's called)
Or she asks him about a mirror
Then it would become the sonia's account replacememt in the trial
It's not the best (her surviving would have been better i feel) but it would make her death more... Prominent
Like no matter how much you try to be a better person death doesn't care and would further cement the idea of anybody can die
Edit: or better yet instead of the kimono being the problem maybe she sees mikan, follows her, tries to apologize and die
Evidence could be she tells sonia
Says something about mahiru and how she would want hiyoko to apologize and do the right thing
Or have a note in her room written from mahiru about apologizing and doing thw right thing
Hiyoko was originally supposed to be a survivor instead of fuyuhiko, but they thought Peko's sacrifice would be meaningless, so they changed it last minute and had to rush it. That's why her murder weapon wasn't even stablished. I think it was a reasonable decision to make Fuyuhiko survive but swapping him with Hiyoko was a really bad decision
@@douglas4025 It in turn made mahiru's sacrifice meaningless
Even worst when her death was so unexplainable that cast on chapter 3 just mainly focused on mikan and ibuki.
hiyoko doesn't seem like the type of character to outright apologise with the words 'i'm sorry' very often, and she already does when everyone thinks her memorial to mahiru is terrifying - i think there's multiple ways for a character to apologise, and hiyoko doing it more than once cheapens the writing and her character. hiyoko's mean insults definitely slow down in chapter 3, with them mostly going to targets that have absolutely done things to earn her ire (i.e fuyuhiko and nagito). hiyoko's not gonna go 'im gonna do the right thing!' because that's not her character; hell, she outright says "I don't wanna die in a meaningless death" after nekomaru gets curbstomped and is extremely cautious, only to wind up dead exclusively through a single lapse in judgement and luck with nobody to rely on.
(to clarify, just giving my thoughts on this)
@@douglas4025
I can’t believe this misconception is still being spread around in 2024.
Fuyuhiko was NOT originally supposed to die in Chapter 3, Nekomaru was. Fuyuhiko WAS going to die, but not until Chapter 4, where he would’ve come back as a robot, which was an idea they obviously transferred to Nekomaru. What this means for Hiyoko’s fate isn’t completely clear, but she very well could’ve still been a victim.
Also, the reason it was changed WASN’T because the writers thought it undermined Peko’s sacrifice, it was changed because they thought turning Fuyuhiko into a robot was too silly, and they wanted his story to be taken seriously.
I think every character (victims, culprits and survivors) needs to serve a unique purpose in the series with regards to cases, themes and development. "Wasted Potential" is when there is just nothing unique to their role. A character may die early and/or without completing their arc but so long as they serve some unique impact then it is all good. Perhaps because the themes are so debated, is why people argue about wasted potential. Sayaka may have died early but her death was a great subversion/twist and has a majour impact for the first chapter. Compare it to Ibuki who died in the middle but her death meant very little, in terms of themes and narrative.
Of course the grass is always greener in terms of potential "What Ifs". People also want to see their favourites live. You're always going to upset someone and that's a good thing if it means your writing had an impact. Though I do understand getting upset because less interesting characters survived longer. *Glares at comic relief characters* If a character does not have a purpose in the story and/or themes, then the only thing left is personality and that can be hit 'n' miss from person to person.
True, but I feel like Ibuki's death does have some good symbolism.
- Ibuki was very energetic and charismatic in a way.
- Ibuki prepared the recovery party for Fuyuhiko and held everyone together as a group after Mahiru died.
Her death being very dark and gloomy in contrast to her cheerful and out there personality is very sad.
Plus I feel like a character like that dying always makes u feel sad. She also serves as comedic relief and dies mid-way in the game so the game starts to get more serious.
I like that finally someone tálalos about this
When thinking of the first victims and culprits, many people think that they should have lasted longer or they were “dumb” or “evil all along”
They don’t get that the First chapters set the tone, clear spectations and leave messeges. Even characters that could be see as forgotten by the cast of survivors, WE; The players, will Probably remember them
Very unrelated: I LOVE THE ANGIE ART OMG!!!
Love this video. I never really got the wasted potential thing. I loved when Hiyoko died in the story. "Her arc completed though!" Actually. I think her arc was completed when she gave Mahiru a proper memorial stopped being constantly mean to everyone. (i say constantly because she can still be foulmouthed from time to time). She's still mean to Mikan. Even though people become nice, they can't be nice to everyone. This also means Hiyoko still has the same personality, rather than becoming a different person. My thoughts on Hiyoko is that her only missed potential was that she would get brutally murdered by Mikan (Cause Hiyoko caused her to snap) In chapter 4. But oh well, the story's narrative isn't supposed to go the way the viewers hope it to be, where's the fun in that?
I remember feeling so robbed by Rantaro's death.. Because his "ultimate" status was SO mysterious and shocking. But at the same, I understand why they would take him out immediately to preserve the ending "twist". But then again... Why put him in at all?
Also, the HUGE twist of having the protag' die right at the start was CRAZY. As much as having a really cool female protag with fleshed out personality was super fun, it completely flipped my understanding of these games. Pure genius. Sadly, they then went right back to the same old formula for the rest of the title. :/
I'm glad you mentioned how not everyone is gonna get a completed arc. Thats something I've always thought about when people talk about danganronpa, but the way the game is set up, not every character is gonna be fully developed, and even more so, swaping a character to just give a character full growth just means that the character that is now dead is just "wasted Potential". Sometimes as a fangan writer, the hardest thing to do is decide who's arc will be complete by the end of the game, and if it will end on a positive note. As much as people would like every character to go through an arc, but I think in the real world, sometimes people don't get fully developed as we'd like in stories.
I suppose it is a tad selfish to want our faves to survive in a story where death drives the narrative 😅
Deep down we all wanna stick our beloved DR characters in an AU where they all live and be happy
I don't know, I feel like if characters like Mahiru and Sayaka survived longer i'd like them way less.
Yeah, killing off a character with potential is what makes this series tragic and interesting. But at the same time I still wanna see more from those characters. Makes me wish they didn’t scrap the alternate route system. Different characters surviving could result in quite the different scenarios happening which could be interesting to watch. That’s what I like about Steins;Gate (along with Zero) and Your Turn To Die. The story can go on quite the different directions depending on what you choose or who dies.
On the bright side ancillary media like Danganronpa IF & Ultimate Talent Development Plan exists.
While I liked this video for what it discussed, I couldn't help but focus on your comments about YTTD. Do you ever plan to discuss why it is you don't like it, or is it more of an annoyance with how many people have likely asked you about it in the past?
i'm not discussing in a full video because i'd have to buy and sit through the entire game and i have better uses of $25, but suffice to say: i was bored and unimpressed by the first two hours with how cliche it was - anything that wasn't a direct 999 ripoff was generic death game genre stuff, and fan discussions of the later game make it sound equally as generic. it only got attention because rpgmaker horror had just become old enough to be nostalgic retro content & danganronpa was popular and it was kind of like danganronpa. but imo, it's pretty telling that the discussion around the game just fucking died within a month of its steam release.
@@DetectiveNyx I think that's honestly a fair assessment even though I disagree. Thanks for responding
ruclips.net/user/liveMeqEuKLEmcA?si=4FUYsyhc09ZPDqyG
If you want to know, they played the game here.
The biggest wasted potential for me is Hiyoko. If Fuyuhiko died instead of Hiyoko (like originally planned), his arc would still somewhat wrap up. Keeping him around is nice but Hiyoko could have filled his role on top of getting a complete character arc. She doesn’t even get a thematically good death. Mikan gets the Plot Contrivance Disease and kills her… for being a witness to her other murder? Not for bullying her for three chapters? Okay.
apparently the idea that hiyoko was originally going to survive was just totally faked
Welcome back! It's been so long since you've been on hiatus, I hope your doing ok
Hey Nyx are you ever gonna do more fangan advice? like i had an idea in the past where i would do a fangan (which was canon to the hopes peak storyline) where it was a prequel to trigger happy havoc and goodbye despair (practically none of the first games cast was born, plus this takes place before danganronpa 3: despair arc) and the students in the killing game were all originals characters and were one of the earliest classes ever in hopes peak history where the class would go missing and technically be put into a killing game where it was outside of hopes peak and this would technically be the FIRST ever killing game in danganronpa (also the class that participated went reported "missing" as it was the only hopes peak class where nobody remembered any of the names of the students and in the oldest records of hopes peak they were never found and there were never any pictures of them)
I feel like Kiyo's case, living with a murderer isn't a novelty so much as living with someone who committed murder in the context of the killing game without facing execution. I mean, Komaeda may have planned to kill the Impostor and Fuyuhiko may have intended to kill Mahiru, but neither of them ended up doing so. All the other killers did so outside of the killing game.
komaeda wasn't targeting the imposter, he was just trying to kill literally anyone (he probably would've killed hinata if twogami didn't stop him). kuzuryuu killed koizumi in all but the explicit killing blow - the plan was his idea.
the chances are shinguuji would've just been murdered the next chapter; as i said, there's not enough time to redeem him and he's far too despicable to reasonably survive, and he won't target any of the men or iruma/harukawa (he literally expresses that they're not 'virtuous' enough to be murdered at his hand), which leaves his murder targets as 'the girl who's already gone through hell throughout the game' and 'the mastermind'. i imagine the team toyed with the idea of him not being executed but ultimately decided that this was a reasonable point for him to die, and i'm inclined to agree, given the alternatives.
@@DetectiveNyx i worded it very poorly trying to lump Kuzuryuu and Komaeda together in the "almost committed murder" crowd, didn't mean to imply Komaeda was targeting Impostor. I do stand corrected about Kuzuryuu though.
I would say, if that's the case then feels as though they're leaving in a plot thread that leads to nowhere. It feels to me less like wasted potential in this way than wasted time, but that's a different discussion entirely.
Angie be like: "Zetta Flare!"
PS, the art looks great 👍
this is entirely random, but would you ever consider making videos about being a seamstress/the garments you make?? i understand not wanting to cross over videogame disscussion/playthroughs with more irl stuff but with the whole branching-out thing ik id watch tf outta a garment tour
potentially? i'd like to get better at it first, imo - i still do a LOT that's amateurish and i'd just like to kind of get the hang of it better lol
I love the idea that in other circumstances, a character may have developed to be more mature and happy with themselves. Thats something even the developers considered, i think, for at least thh. Why else do you think theres copious official art of class 78 in their school days? That was when everyone in that cast became friends and were able to improve on their hangups as ppl.
Fukawa felt comfortable enough around everyone to let them know about genocider. Celeste went by taeko yasuhiro so much that, when yamada got his memories back via hammer, that was the first name he associated with her. Instead of using her shsl bullshit to dig up dirt on everyone in thh, i wouldnt be surprised if junko was just such good friends with everyone at school that they told her all the info for their first two motives themselves
But like. The fact that the characters all had potential to develop is kind of the point thematically throughout all of danganronpa. Yeah tsumiki SHOULD have been allowed to come to terms with all the horrific abuse in her childhood. But she cant bc hopes peak is an awful school and junko was a master manipulator.
Yeah, angie SHOULD have been a good rival character. She has blind faith in her god and expects her cult to as well, but shes overly distrusting of the other students. Meanwhile momota hates supernatural stuff bc its not scientific but he has blind faith in the students. I think its a more interesting setup for a foil than just the repetitive "trust everyone/trust no one" schtick between momota and ouma at least. But thats kind of the point that angie couldnt be the rival?
She has a lot of cool setup but gets offed bc of dumb luck. Bc shirogane was not and has never been in control of the game. Everything she and team danganronpa meticulously planned out gets sidetracked bc the shot put ball didnt fall in the right place. Or angie just happened to go to the wrong room at the wrong time. Or oumas sticking his little gremlin fingers into everything. Its a running theme in v3 that cool story concepts get ruined by circumstances outside of shiroganes control and she and monokumas left to juggle the less interesting parts. I think angies death fits that.
(I am still very attached to my au where angie doesnt run into shinguji and survives chapter 3. Tenko gets killed and ouma falls through a floorboard and dies lmao. (Jk he dies some other way in chapter 3 but the point is angie takes oumas role) in chapter 4 iruma plans to break out of the school bc her tech was good enough by chapter 4 that idk why she didnt try that in v3? and instead of manipulating gonta into his toilet paper murder angie just shows her the outside world and says theres nothing to go back to which is rly what ouma should have done in canon v3 if the plot wasnt so contrived. Then iruma does smth else that gets her killed ig)
Anyway my point is a lot of missed potential with characters is kind of the point? Thats the point of making them good characters. Theyre layered enough to have a great character arc if only they lived long enough. But they cant bc monokuma is there
Banger video!
Question, would you ever make a critic video about your turn to die ? I know there are problems with it , but i cannot put it into words
probably not lol
God thank you for making thia video. The whole "missed potential thing" has always been wrong to me. And people are like that in total drama's community too. Its super annoying.
Finally someone who agrees that characters dying is a good thing narrative wise and that them dying is what makes them better.
I see it all the time, the outcry over someone's favorite characters dying and that meaning they were ruined or could have been better.
It's so strange to me, you are still playing a game in the death game genre, but you take issue when characters die.
When I write characters I always structure them around a purpose, characters for the sake of characters is bad idea, they can be as quirky and unique as they want, without a purpose, be it a message, to drive the plot further or simply because them dying has an effect on something, they need a purpose.
And guess what over half of danganronpa's characters are written with the purpose to die, but somehow them dying is a bad thing.
Yes I agree it can be unsatisfying, many DR characters have unsatisfying deaths and it feels double as bad if you had genuine investment into the character and their story, but there is more to a death than to write a character out of the story and I think this video did a great job explaining that.
I think the real culprit of missed potential are the characters that leave little impact narrative wise... you could say every death at least had some purpose, because at least them dying drives the plot forward... which means the worst kind of wasted potential is characters that survive without serving a narrative purpose.
With in my opinion the worst offender of this being Sonia who has little to no involvement in any of the cases, no character arc and that the characters tied to her don't influence her in a significant way.
I haven’t encountered anyone say that killing off a character meant “ruining them” at all. Like how does that even work?
@@kaylemathewcomendador6964 Good for you, I wish I wouldn't have to deal with people who are like that.
But from what I understand it's just that these people have an above average investment in any one character and them dying is unsatisfying for them. Taka, Hiyoko and honestly most V3 character are usually in that discussion. It's always, they had so much potential, they ruined the character by killing them off.
Gotta admit, you lost me when you started talking about Hunger Games for a looong time
that's a shame. it's a good series
@@DetectiveNyx I've seen all the movies but haven't read the books
What I always say, when people bring up lost potential, incomplete arcs, ect is...
"Yeah. That's what makes the killing tragic. What, you wanted a death game senario where none of the killing was tragic?" Wanting to remove all the parts of killing that makes them feel *bad* leaves you with fetishizing murdering teenagers, which is not what I'm into dangonrompa for, personally.
I love hearing about your views and analysis on danganronpa, you always have so many fascinating things to say about DR, you everything you say gives such a fresh view on the series that I wish other people on the internet had
True alot off the characters who died deserved more to do, but if they kill characters who are "plot complete" it would be well boring.
You know, I actually guessed that Sayaka was going to die in the first chapter due to how close she was with Makoto. Not gonna lie, I couldn’t solve a single murder in the game, but other stuff ease peasy. Literally guessed that Makoto was the reason the Danganronpa 2 case was on the island because of how Usami said hope a bunch. Then guessed that Chiaki was the traitor based on her personality.
I actually made videos call wasted potential, and I agree with a lot of these characters.
While Tenko is my favorite character I still think she was killed off at a point to make her perfectly tragic. Having her survive would've just removed a lot of tension and drama from the narrative of the later half of V3.
super interesting video! Somewhat tangentially, I wish people would look at characters as representative of themes more often, instead of freaking out that they died. I think it’s really cool. The MC in the first game representing optimism and choosing to trust people who you really shouldn’t, let’s be honest, was one of my favorite parts. Celeste being the only selfish, planned-out killer in that game was interesting too. I don’t know where to go with this because it’s 1 am.
(I will NOT stand for this yttd slander tho!! that games themes are so crazy and interesting. I could talk about it for about ten dozen hours. But uh…agree to disagree.)
When people talk about the cast having a killer among them they usually mean a killer who has killed on of the cast so if kaede used the first blood perk to stay with the group but then they would have to live with her knowing she’s killed one of them already
fuyuhiko
@@DetectiveNyx I mean he didn’t kill one of the cast though that’s what I mean
@@DetectiveNyx so I’m not good at explaining things but I meant was the cast would’ve had to have lived with someone who killed one of their friends who was also apart of the cast at the start
you explained it perfectly understandably, but fuyuhiko is what you are talking about. he fully admitted to setting up mahiru's murder; all he did not do was deliver the killing blow. he isn't the culprit of her murder but he definitely killed her.
@@DetectiveNyx I guess but he did also say he wasn’t planning on killing her he was just gonna talk to mahiru before peko misunderstood the situation and killed her
Personality I think the reason for kios 'wasted potential' is that tenko and andie are people that you know and you see their death, so it's more personal and more important to the rest of the characters, if someone in a killing game killed your little sister and didn't die you would have to live with someone who YOU SAW KILL your sister. You would have to deal with them and someone could be upset enough to kill them, the others killed outside the games and they are dangerous but the characters could forget about it easily, so they don't count for this idea. In summary you get someone who is a killer of someone you know and could have cared about, it's more personal
4:20 RIP Zero Punctuation
long live fully ramblomatic
With Kiyotaka's death I think while problematic with 3 characters having nobody "living" for them, though this can be applied to many others, Kiyotaka's death serves the theme, having hope and then that hope being utterly crushed by despair. I dont really know how to write a conclusion to this comment but those are my thoughts on Taka's death/missed potential
Has nothing to do with my original comment but something I think would be cool for you to do would be a video comparing and contrasting Sakura and Celeste
Bruh what's with the shade thrown at yttd about???
now i know this is quite subtle, but here's a big shock: i do not like YTTD, i think it is a bad story, and i have a wonderful thing called 'my own opinion'
Mahiru deserved more :(
I used to hate mahiru for being hypocrite and bossy until I looked to her free time event. I can see why she hates boys.
Coming from a big fan of yttd, I don’t get why people were debating you for your opinion on it. Small off topic comment but still.
tbf, it was one guy who got all huffy about it lol
Okay, there is a lot of miss potential I wish got explored in the stories but didn't because it seems the writers legit miss many marks.
I'm just gonna state one of those missed potentials. I think it's a shame that dr1 first motive isn't expanded upon and paced reasonably enough to see how the cast reacts to it.
I also think its a bit of a letdown that such a motive like this isn't till lingering after chapter 1. It's forgetton
Plus chapter 1 kinda goes by fast, sayaka breakdown as soon she sees her motive, and later on she dies. Without any build up, it just happens and while you could say characters sying before their arc is okay. I agree, though the payoff & execution has to be just as good.
Characters like Leon, Sayaka, Chihiro, and Mondo could have been explored since they are the early victims & blackeneds.
They can even take this farther by exploring how people like Celeste, Togami, Kyoko or even Aoi react to their loved ones in danger.
Honestly because how Chapter 1 went down, the rest of the game suffers because of writing & pacing thus the payoff/execution is disappointing.
really? i thought the pacing was quite good in danganronpa 1, with v3 being more on the side of dragging its feet around.
- the motive not including a detailed revelation of *everyone's* motivations is to not bog the chapter down with unnecessary bloat - the others are certainly disturbed, but it's most important that sayaka is the one that snaps first under the pressure. additionally, of course the motive kind of gets forgotten - monokuma only offered it up until someone tried to kill over it (which absolutely happened), so there's no longer a reason to kill over it. also there's the PoV rule - makoto's not close enough to everyone else to learn what happened unless they wear their hearts on their sleeves immediately, and by time he is close enough, the information is no longer relevant.
- sayaka already showed her signs of breaking down before the motive - the motive just drives her over the edge and puts her on the mind of murder. she also spends the buildup to her case emotionally appealing to makoto, very clearly in two minds about the whole thing, and there's a perfect amount of time between 'oh sayaka hasn't come to breakfast' to 'OH PISS SHE'S DEAD'.
- sayaka, chihiro, mondo, and leon all serve narrative purposes rather than personal ones - the video kind of outright explains this haha. sayaka and leon serve as the revelations of exactly how far everything in this series will go and chihiro and mondo's case happens because of the horrors of the world they're desperately trying to escape back to. chihiro's contributions also have far-reaching consequences that allows them to haunt the series, as is also the case with sayaka's clue. the murderers tend to be forgotten more because, you know, they took someone's life.
- celestia, togami, and kirigiri don't wear their emotions on their sleeve - they're far more reserved and far less trusting. they're not going to open up about their videos in chapter 1, but they all open up much later about the truth, just not explicitly what they saw in the videos. hina is a bit more open, but not with makoto just yet - she very clearly trusts sakura and you can infer that they may have confided their videos with each other, but hina reacts _on-screen_ to a loved one being in danger - she reacts to that danger having come true in the worst possible way. there's like, a whole chapter about it.
@@DetectiveNyx wow, what a lengthy response.
It will take me a while to respond.
Yes but tabkika 3ayni ya kiyotaka la lanak wholesome laknama 3ayni lajlika bakia
I have so many issues with these takes
1. Angie’s missed potential is NOT that she didn’t become the rival her missed potential is that because she was the chapter’s victim it ultimately made the student council plot go nowhere cause Angie dies before anything could happen with it.
2. Tenko’s arc is getting over her crush on Himiko?! What?! I’ve never met a single person who has that opinion! I think the only people who have that opinion are homophobes.
3. The double murder thing going nowhere is fine because multiple characters are already a killer? Holy mother of god. Do I even need to explain the issue? There is a clear difference between someone in the game who’s murdered people you don’t know years ago and someone in the game who murdered someone you’ve gotten at least acquainted with within the PAST FEW DAYS! Also the issue isn’t that Kiyo killed them both the issue is that the game set up the fact that there was gonna be 2 killers and didn’t follow up on its promise to just have Kiyo kill both of them!
4. I agree with your point on the whole Distrust argument and Danganronpa being linear is not missed potential. But like I don’t think anyone has that opinion so you’re just focusing on an argument that no one has
5. KIYOTAKA BECOMING KIYONDO IS NOT A COMPLETED CHARACTER ARC! Narratively speaking Kiyondo is very clearly not a healthy coping mechanism for Taka. He’s rude to everyone and takes on Mondo’s personality if he actually had time in the story they would’ve 100% had him actually process Mondo’s death and overcome it. The missed potential is the fact that because he got completely sidelined in the chapter until the last 25 minutes he doesn’t get the time to actually at least semi-finish his character arc! I agree with you that him getting killed after finding his footing again is tragic and that’s a reason I think he works as a victim but THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED! He was going through his moment where he gets his footing! That was the set up not the payoff! If he just had more focus in the chapter or the Kiyondo stuff happened earlier then he would’ve had time to get back on his footing and still die in chapter 3!
my issue with a lot of these takes is assuming your experiences match mine.
the student council set up two things; a, that people were still trying to resist the killing game, and b. the character arc for himiko, as the student council and angie became her primary security blanket that she could retreat into that tenko joined so she could rescue himiko from it. just because the student council didn't last more than a chapter doesn't mean it was meaningless.
i fully agree that anyone who has the opinion that tenko getting over her crush on himiko is a homophobe, but homophobes aren't always the ones screaming about how much of a fagdyke she is for having a crush. some people have said that tenko's arc should've been about her getting over her crush on himiko and claimed to be queer allies elsewhere. there's a lot of misogyny and homophobia in the dr fandom
fuyuhiko 100% deserves the credit/blame for killing mahiru; it was his plan, he would've absolutely been the killer if peko didn't intervene at the last second, and his arc is about finding redemption for that fact. mahiru wasn't some random so that take holds no water. i also explained pretty clearly why it wouldn't matter if kiyo did both murders or not; he's done the kill far too late to achieve an earned redemption arc, and he's proven to not care about the survival of the team anyway; nobody in their right mind would actually leave him alive. either he kills someone else and gets executed this time or he gets murdered to save someone else, and by that point why even have him survive chapter 3. just because the possibility of two culprits was brought up doesn't mean there has to be two culprits (especially since two culprits was done in the first game; there's your two-killers plotline)
like the tenko argument, this assumes your experiences match mine. i've legitimately seen people call it missed potential, and by the fact you're the first i've ever seen try to call it out, not only is it a case of assuming our experiences are the same, but you might actually be in the minority here.
the point for kiyotaka was he was in an extremely volatile and vulnerable state and that made it easy for celestia to manipulate events and get him killed. she doesn't give a shit about his character arc, celestia wants ten million bucks. if everyone with a setup to a character arc survived, it would be pretty fucking obvious which characters were going to survive, and then you could pick out which characters were going to die each chapter pretty easily. it's a killing game, some arc potentials are more about the tragedy of not making it through. i don't really see the difference in this instance.
@@DetectiveNyx I see where you’re coming from but a lot of what I’d call “missed potential” is from the fact that the game has a bunch of set up that it fails to pay off. This is why I had a lot issues with V3 chapter 3. It’s sets a lot up that it never follows up on. The Student council didn’t really go out with a bang for me it just kinda fizzled out. Which is disappointing since it would’ve made Angie actually work for me. Like the scrum debates were practically built for a scenario like this. Then there’s the Necronomicon which like I get why they didn’t use it but at the same time if they weren’t gonna do anything with it. Like it’s practically irrelevant because Angie’s death has nothing to do with it or the Student council. I also think it would’ve been the perfect way to flesh out Rantaro more due to how underwritten he was. Then there’s the double murder thing which I genuinely don’t understand why they even brought that up if they weren’t gonna do anything with it! Also as for the Fuyuhiko thing he felt pretty remorseful for Mahiru and Peko’s death and the fact that he tried to kill Mahiru isn’t really focused on in exchange for his amazing character arc. Now let’s say hypothetically in 3-3 that say Kiyo tricked say Kokichi into killing Angie and then he killed Tenko himself. So Kokichi gets executed but now the cast has to live with a remorseless murderer who just masterminded and technically committed 2 murders. That would’ve amped up the stakes so high. Obviously that’s just a shitty hypothetical but it’s far better than them doing nothing with the double murder rule.
for Taka I think him dying in chapter 3 does work but he suffers from an issue THH has in general that the game waits too long to introduce stuff in the chapter. Taka becomes Kiyondo 20 minutes before he gets his head cracked open like a piñata. If they just had the Kiyondo stuff happen earlier that most likely would’ve solved my issue since they would’ve had more time to flesh him out.
@@DetectiveNyx also I don’t think hypothetical chapter three survivor Kiyo should’ve been redeemed at all. It would be far more interesting if he went full evil
i don't think the student council *needed* to go out with a bang, and while i don't think scrum debates were utilised particularly well for the buildup, i don't think it's fair to place the blame for it squarely on angie's shoulders for not surviving long enough; there were plenty of other opportunities it could've been utilised well and was used for pointless melodrama (chapter 4 comes to mind). the necronomicon is incredibly difficult to actually utilise, but chapter 3 kind of is full of decoys; i think they work well for helping himiko's arc and setting up the ultimate twist. as for bringing up the idea of multiple killers, again, chapter 3 of DR1 utilised two murderers, and it's more about getting you considering different worlds than establishing one as the for-sure one. it wasn't a big deal to me, personally.
would it have amped up the stakes very much? again, kiyo kills too late for him to slip into a redemption arc, and if he gets more evil, he's going to die, which would make people go 'well why didn't they just kill him off earlier and spare the trouble'. additionally, in the scenario where kokichi gets executed for the accidental murder of angie, the only reasonable culprit i could possibly see for that hypothetical case is maki, because kokichi was her primary source of antagonistic force; if he dies early then she loses that grind, and the only outcome of her arc after that is that she kills korekiyo to protect everyone else, in a case i think would be more predictable than the canonical chapter 3. it would also make kokichi look like an absolute chump, because quite frankly korekiyo is kind of an idiot and seeing korekiyo of all characters trick kokichi would make me hate both of them even more
the issue is the game's already pretty tight; the only solution would be to have kiyotaka die later rather than set kiyondo up earlier, because chapter 1 is about showing makoto The Horrors and chapter 2 is about setting up what happens to kiyotaka, but chapter 4 is when the group dynamics are really getting finally solidified. his only option kind of is to die in chapter 3 with kiyotaka's death a tragedy, killed before he could properly process everything.
@@DetectiveNyx well, I said Kiyotaka should die in chapter 3 I think that works for the story and he doesn’t really work as a survivor or a later death. but I’m saying that he becomes Kiyondo 20 minutes before he dies. I think he should’ve had his Kiyondo moment half way through the chapter instead of in the last third. Another issue that occurred to me while writing this is that they don’t really focus on him in the trial or feel that distraught over his death and he gets hard sidelined in the trial. I think that’s the same issue Hiyoko, another character I’m ok with dying in chapter 3, has as well. she also gets completely sidelined in the trial.
ummm....nvm
Early
First
awesome video i love the part where you discuss 'Wasted Potential' in Danganronpa