Riding in armour on a fully barded steed.
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- As a final installment of the videos inaugurating the finishing of the steel bard for my andalusian gelding Maximilian, we actually put the full bard on the horse and rode it in full harness on the man as well.
This video shows the horse being armoured and some tentative equitation with him, as well as some moves with the lance from various historical fencing manuscripts.
This representation is aimed around 1480, German, as a medieval war armour for man and horse (this equipment is not specific for tournament or parade, but functional for protection against arrows and hand weapons).
a video of more historical explanation of the elements of the horse armour:
• A look around a 1480's...
Stats for interest:
horse height: 158 cm / 15hh2"
rider size: 193 cm / 6'4"
field armour weight: 28 kg / 59 lbs (including sword)
horse armour weight: 20 kg / 41 lbs (sans taildragon)
The man armored his horse gently.
Horse: Eating Eating Eating
yes, my Warhorse miight be slightly spoiled :)
I see Augusto cleverly edited out the crane used to get you up on Max ;)
hahaha
I was looking to see the mounting a horse part so bad!
@@IarctusI i might make a specific video about it, maybe
@@airnt would be extremely interesting
Yo Ian I miss your videos so much man.
Quite a sight with every piece on it. Really impressive.
thank you
Nice profile pic, that was an amazing set of armor.
@@GiskardRevenlov thanks. Jiri did an amazing job
dam im jealous. i wanna be fully wearing armor and riding an armored horse with a lance, just, dam
I wonder if there are medieval/hema nerd horses that are like "ahhh, fuck yeahhh!, barding."
I made a set of armor out of cardboard for my horse for Halloween this past year, and it's insanely helpful to know exactly how the real stuff is attached to the tack! I tied the shaffron to the bridle like you did, but I didn't have the idea to tie additional straps from the crinet around his neck. Because of this, it bounced like crazy when we went to trot, and he didn't like that. I also had no idea where to begin with a crupper, so this is a real eye-opener!
thank you, yes this is a really major factor, and actually something that with steel can have dire consequences when the crinet comes off the neck.
"Ooh!" "Wow!" "Bizarre!"
Very nice to actually see it move and with a horse with such experience and a very good rider! It also good to see that you can still work between each other as its all one household in these times.
it is so nice to have good people to make this kind of stuff happen
What a glorious sight. Thank you for sharing this with us all.
Glad you enjoyed it
this is the dude that models for faber castell's pencils
haha, thank you
Girls riding horses: I want one, (5 weeks later) I want a horse
Boys riding horses:
Wow thats amazing. I also ride in medieval style (12th century - with sword and lance) so I can understand what you are doing here. A great work with this horse. Really appreciate that.
I hope to complete my 13th century gear with mail barding too, eventually
could u upload some videos?! :D
Max was pretty big hearted trying all that without a fit! This looked like a lot of fun. Interesting about riding with your seat and leg yields as in western its pretty common, guess I figured everyone does. Awesome video! Glad yt offered it and following! We have a Clyde and Gypsy Drum that has the build that begs full barding lol Probably not historically correct but fun thought anyway. Thanks again!
yeah the neck rein with a crinet is pretty annoying,
but we use a lot of shoulder in, travers and renvers in training horses, obviously a good warhorse was expected to do canter pirouettes and various two-time gallops.
How doesn't this have more recognition? It's great!
thank you, kind words, It is just a little video of a tryout, i am not sure it is life changing :)
I was waiting for the mounting section. Still, very impressive. Thank you. I never thought I would see this in live action. Very interesting.
seriously, AMAZING! the craftmanship is unbelievable
Nowhere near a full bard. Maximilian is rolling in his elaborate sepulcher...
are you referring to the thun scetchbuch version with the whole leg armour? It is somewhat questionable if that one was ever built, and even if it was it was not typical at all, but a one off.
'full bards' are considered in period distinct from 'half bards' yet we know they did not have to have every concievable element to be considered 'full bards' Especialy Flanchards are often omitted in period.
The whole system is a modular set that can be used as needed.
Especially crinets add a lot of weight and complexity and not that much added protection, and are often omitted.
making a choice on that matter might also be a question how much work the horse needs to do and if tiring its' head posture prematurely might be more detrimental than the protection afforded.
@@airntwould a chain-mail or leather crinette be favourable as a lighter option?
@@LeChevalierAnglais mail is generally heavier, especialy at comparable defensive strength.
yet mail is somewhat easier to handle around horses, and the chance of the animal injuring itself on the mail is less.
also through mail you can still give rein aids to some degree, whereas the plate numbs the horse to the neck rein almost entirely.
Mail crinets are known and the underneck is often protected by mail, but those are really of significant weight.
mail peytrals are also known, there is one original in private hands that i have handled.
(obviously earlier full mail caparisons were also known already in the 13th century and perhaps before)
Leather shaffrons are known, sometimes silvered to look like steel, Leather crinets i do not know about, but they could have existed as leather peytrals and cruppers are probably the most common forms of body armour of horses in the period.
the leahter can give some bulk and articulation issues but is less likely to cut the animal itself.
Horse bards from leather (or even rhino hide) are often very thick, so a crinet would have to be distinctly thinner than those. This might really reduce its defensive capabilities to the point where it will not be used at all.
@airnt ah, so steel is lighter, but a Crinette is often unnecessary anyway. I'll take that into account then. I suppose a crinette only be really desired when engaging cavalry as they may try to cut down against the horse neck?
@@LeChevalierAnglais well the underneck is often protected against pikes and whatnot, but it adds a lot of weight and complexity.
just the crinet for the neck is 6 kg + but a full crinet is heavier still and an underneck mail cover is really a lot of weight.
so it could be half the horse armours' weight, in theory.
Essential watching for the topic, and you still make everything look so easy even in full harness. 🙂
thank you, too kind, as always
Superb video, and insight, and excellent riding. Thank you
very kind of you, thank you
German Gothic armor looks so badass.
thank you. i quite like it too :)
You look so cool on that horse in full Armour!
thank you, very kind
I'm blown away! Too much beauty! 🤯😍
Inspiring as always. Thanks Arne et al!
thank you for watching, it always means a lot from the guys who do this to hear their feedback
Thank you for showing this!
I never tried getting on my pony in my full plate, she would probably have killed both of us, she sometimes used to try to buck her saddle off the first time we picked up a trot if it hadn't been put on exactly right, and a noisy clanking barding would have terrified her when she started moving, so if I was going to get her used to barding, we'd have started with her on the lead... When we did pony dress-up for barn parties, I'd armour us both up and lead her, she wore a chamfron I made (the first piece of steel plate armour I ever made) and I repurposed some faulds for a chest piece and also got into my armour in front of her and jumped up and down in front of her so she was used to the amount of noise I made just moving around... she did get used to me swinging a sword ovver her head, though... the only time I ever mounted up while fully armoured was at a medieval festival where the jousting troupe offered pony rides on their jousting horses, I got on fine with hte mounting block but getting off required a little more thinking because I couldn't lift my leg over the saddle!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge 🙏. I'm new to this channel and am enjoying it immensely. 😊
Only if the other guys wear medieval dresses this would look even better
i suppose we could do some videos that are more filmic with backgrounds and stuff, i do have an idea for that, but that project might take a while
Beautiful white horse
How wonderful to see this, (and need to find more videos) but you clearly care so much about your horse being happy with his work!
Wow, absolut genial!
Du erklärst alles sehr gut und professionell, teils sogar besser als manche Dokus. Es freut mich, dass es Leute wie dich gibt, die so interessiert und talentiert sind, so etwas zu machen.
Ebenfalls viele Grüße aus Thüringen! 😊
ah! das schöne Thüringen... ich freue mich total hier zu wohnen. Selber auch im Mittelalterscene unterwegs?
@@airnt Bis jetzt nicht, aber auf alle Fälle sehr historisch interessiert. Habe mir schon zwei Bücher über Friedrich Barbarossa/ das HRR gekauft (fange ich dann an, wenn ich mit Martin Kuckenburgs "Die Kelten" fertig bin).
Aber egal welche Epoche, ich finde das immer super cool, wenn Leute sich die Mühe machen und versuchen, das praktisch nachzustellen. Da kam mir dein Video gerade recht. 😉
Very well done to experience history
7:25 You'll never see Gusto happier than here, believe me.
Очень! Очень показательно и доступно для понимания. Отличный материал для изучения истории. Спасибо.
Letting the other guy handle the back of the horse is a good idea, a kick from that horse would definitely damage that stunning piece of armor.
in fact that armour has had horses trample all over it, years ago. on another occasaion my shin was kicked by another stallion while riding him, and the greave withstood it with no visible damage at all. i think it would withstand a kick quite ok.
What a great horse!
thank you!
Interestingly the 'great horse' bred in Brabant in the 15th century topped out at the size of this guy.
He is my great freind, this last decade, challenged by his body, but a sharp mind and a loyal companion
Awesome work everyone involved!
" Is the Southern German,🇩🇪 Gothic plate,🍽 armor and chainmail,⛓ bulletproof?" "Is the Northern Italian,🇮🇹 Milanese plate, 🍽 armor and chainmail,⛓ bulletproof?"
bullet proofing is seen after longbow and crossbowproofing. This period most knightly harnesses, like one this represents, would be definitely crossbowproof on the breastplate and helmet. (this is a distinctly higher grade than the longbowproof armour)
bulletproofing becomes more common lateron.
this is usually anything over 3 mm thick, but much thicker pieces are made, that are quite simply overengineered on that point.
this breastplate is actually 3 mm thick hardened and tempered carbon steel, so i would imagine it would be pretty bulletproof for anything up to 1850 that falls under a hand held gun. (muskets or whatever)
'pistol proof' is a thing you see in the late 16th century, which is a les sturdy class of bullet proof, and the helmet would definitely also be that, in that is it about 2,5 mm hardened and tempered carbon steel, i think.
This video was cooler than I thought it would be👍
seems like the front of the neck of the horse would be highly exposed to a injury from weapons
i go into this in detail on the walk around talking video
basically there are plate designs that cover this area, but they are somewhat uncommon. They add a lot of weight to the whole armour.
Already the crinet is really the heaviest section.
Mail versions of this coverage is even heavier.
also this section is the most likely to have malfunctions and cause very big issues in the functioning of the horse.
the area is not entirely without protection, though.
even just the presence of the shanks of the bit prevents upwards slashing and the horses' nose and shaffron are covering the frontal arc rather well.
falling shot from bows or crossbows is likely covered by the crinet and its mail fringes.
direct thrusts from the side from poleweapons are rather unlikely to be present due to the position in the formation, and thereby being covered by other riders.
In a skirmish the rider can more easily parry this area with his weapons.
protecting the front of the head of the animal is much harder (though possible) with a parry than the side of the neck, where you can parry with lances, swords and even warhammers.
The more lethal thrusts to the poll and the throat are really high up in the neck and are covered by the crinet already, there is largely flesh that is uncovered.
so though there IS a protective benefit from covering this area, it comes at a large weight penalty and does not add that much security compared to its costs.
I thought the horse was beautiful before with armor on its drop dead gorgeous
thank you
that is very kind
Can you please tell me the horse's name
NVM it's max
Do you guys use him for like movies
I'm sure that in medieval times, if they had invented Cliplocks or at least Pull-The-Dot fasteners, the person who invented them would have been made a landed Baron in gratitude, for all the time saved in donning and doffing armor for both people and horses.
of course clip pins ar seen on period armour, spring pins, detents, etc.
Just the fancy things tend to be the points of failure.
the forces on armour are quite serious at times
Wow that’s amazing!
the "la brida" style is used when riding with armor. You keep your legs more forward on the horse and have your stirrups tied together underneath the horse. Back then you balanced on the horses mouth instead of neck reining him. "a la Jinete" is another style but more for light cavalrymen.
the distinction 'a la brida' vs 'a la jinetta' is slightly later. If you read the works of Don Duarte in 1430 Bem Cavalgar, he talks about the 5 saddles and the 5 ways of riding in them. The jinetta seat is seen in there, i suppose, but the distinction is not just between those two.
the A la brida style as described by duarte mostly applies to raised seat saddles, which i have ridden a faair bit over the years, however this is a 'bravante' saddle, hence the verry often depicted style with an almost 'classical' position however with the toes a little lower.
this is actually remarkably often shown. It is perhaps striking to see the depictions where medieval art shows more extended legs, but htere are plenty where the bravante style seat are shown, in particular in 15th century warfare.
Notable exceptions can be jousting (but also not 100% of the time) but in particular complex maneuvers often shown the legs 'on'
Also in the fencing manuscripts of this particular period we see the maneuvers mostly done with legs 'on'.
(like turning under the lance in particular) there are a whole host of depictions by different authors that do show this.
The Schilling chronicle has 1000s of riders depicted and a large proportion has their legs 'on' maybe 50%
again the Outremer chronicles (1470s France)have a similar 50% split.
the 1480s wolfegger haausbuch has even more legs 'on'.
the 13th century postion is a little more likely to be extended a little forward, but not as consistently as often supposed.
Magnificent. Simply magnificent
thank you very much, i hope some more footage will come out of the september event with several horse armours in a line abreast, charging
Bravo! Giel!
That’s the best thing on you tube today. Thanks for providing a respite from our election apocalypse. 🙂
always glad to be a distraction
Majestic AF
This is amazing
thank you
I was soooo worried the lady would run outta cookies haha. Good sport this. I’d be terrified and hope I had a very long point implements if he came running at me…
Love the square
Nice! Absolutely marvelous!
Wonderful.
I think that a lot of people who want to try out things with their animals get too carried away and want everything to work immediately, rather than gradually and slowly. Love to see how you keep offering the horse a distraction/ peace treaty to tolerate what it probably sees as nonsense :D
true, the funny thing is that the 'slow' way is much quicker. Thorough can be fast.
take your time but don't waste time.
usually an adult horse of good conformation can be trained in about a year to get to 'this' point, aand then builds stamina and other qualities in another 1-2 years.
Of course the first time you train an animal to that standard, you might take longer, and that is ok, but effectiveness is not measured inbeing slower.
BUt the methods used need to be very low in pressure and so forth, like it was described in so many of the manuals of the period describe how warhorses should not be strongarmed into training.
Looks cool, however there was a veterinary article that showed that horses begin to struggle when the weight of the rider and the tack exceeds 25% of the horses weight. I'm pretty sure the rider and the armour here exceed that.
EDIT: Take a look at his answer in the comments, the total weight is actually within the limits!
the actual numbers:
rider armour 25,1 kg (in this configuration)
sword: 1,5 kg
Lance: 2 kg
saddle 5 kg
Horse armour 15,6 kg (the tailguard was omitted here and that adds 2,3 kg) (i mistakingly stated the weight INCLUDING The taildragon in the description, will edit in a moment)
rider 78 kg
total 128,2 kg
horse weighs 521 kg as per veterinarians scales.
This constitutes 24,6%
which study are you referring to? they mostly show 29 or 30 % but most studies are extremely low number cohorts, have very questionable methodology (like only studying two quarter horses that suffer from navicular, for instance) and '29' might be a bit optimistic as a conclusion where 2 significant numbers is very questionable, hence that would really be 30% as well.
most (if not none) do not actually measure that percentage as such, but something else and only refer to this percentage indirectly inthe conclusion... very few studies even weigh the animals in the study.. so it is hard to state a percentage of an unknown (estimated) number with such accuracy.
25 or 30% is a massive practical difference.
There IS a study that merely measures effort, as opposed to proxies for distress or damage etc.
The effort is evident at a lower level of burden, but effort is not a cause for shying away from the work.
The Japanese study actually claims that 48% is still ok, in fact (not sure if i would want to go that far, but that is what they say).
Anyway it is pretty darned cclose but not exceeding the 25% even when counting the saddle, shabrak, sword incl scabbard, underclothing of the rider, etc... i literally weighed all of it.
@@airntthanks for the answer. I have to say I expected a larger total weight. You might be right about it being ~30% and I agree that 48% is definitely too much. Sorry for the quick judgement, I'll make sure I edit my comment so other viewers can learn.
Awesome video and I really enjoyed it! I own a similar suit, four helmets and love wearing it! And I LOVE the two-piece sallet and gorget of all helms. My favorites are those helmets with the protruding "accordion" faces that look bad@$$, and not like the stereotypical "knight in shining armor" enclosed helm.
this is beautiful. thanks for sharing!
That was very informative and fun to watch.
glad you think so, thanks
Could you do an video on the topic of infantry vs mounted knights/men-at-arms? I usually see people arguing that knights would not charge compact and disciplined infantry formations and simply veer off as horses would not charge a wall of shields and pointy objects. Often people argue that battles between infantry and knights were "games of chicken", if the infantry stood their ground and held their formation the knights would be forced to to veer of and try again. On the other hand If the infantry broke they would obviously be ridden down. How much truth is there to this theory? I know of few more knowledgeable youtubers on this topic than you and I think you could shed some much needed light on the topic.
funny that your screenname is 'duke of burgundy' as Phillip the good at Gavere is like one of the best examples of plunging headlong into entrenched pike armed infantry supported by gunners and obliterating them.
@@airnt Interesting, could you go in to more detail about the battle? I am more familiar with the reign of Charles the Bold and the Burgundian wars.
@@dukeofburgundy4229 The original source is very concise, and this is remarkably often what we have, the exceptions are the ones that get more press.
Gavere we have the dispositions (enemy infantry behind a ditch and stake i think) and then how the burgundian archery did very little...
'and then the duke charged and broke his lance and won the battle' or something of that ilk, i need to get the exact words...
anyway, the tendency is to take the simple occurrances and ignore them, simple overwhelming superiority on one side is often not taken as a datapoint.
That man is huge, reminded me the hound from game of thrones
I liked your channel and subbed. I am excited to learn moe from you :)
I am only 193, really!
The two people next to me are blessed with a more compact physique
The squire handing up the lance is over 2 m tall
the girl looks upset that her guy (if thats her guy sorry for assuming a little) enjoys reenactment or something like that.
Beautiful and so impressive !
Thank you very much!
A premiere. This has not happened in centuries. Very special to me. One question: Is there any chance you can show the strapping in more detail? Maybe I can then improve my model even more. Also, you can show me horse armour videos every day, I would appreciate that. Personally, I think the flapping of the peytral and crupper is considerable (uncontrolled up and down motion). I wonder if these were fixed a bit more in some way to prevent this...or maybe the horses just had to get used to that. On my model, I connected the crupper to the saddle at a lower point. I did that because the modern saddlebags I used in real life also had that connection strap to prevent them from uncontrolled flapping. Just a thought...
that can be a restriction of higher front leg lift. The strap just over the wither is commonly seen in originals and the attachment to the saddle is already very low down. Most have buckles that are higher up... by a little.
the attachment straight to the tree has its' merit.
the horse also needs to bend considerably, so this also needs a range of movement.
the crinet is buckled to the saddle and attached by a hinge to the shaffron, it has multiple straps around the throat of the horse.
the shaffron is tied to the bridle and strapped around the nose.
again the crupper has two straps crossing over the croup and then a few places where we pointed it to the saddletree, but normally we see buckles here historically.a strap under the tail really is the only other attachment.
Amazing! Thank you so much for showing this.
Sir, you look great. Please, who made that wonderful armor for you both? It’s unbelievable great. Thanks for this video.
it is a conglomerate of many armourers,
the main armourer for the bard was Isak Krogh, but elements were built and adjusted by Roman tereschenko, Lars and Augusto Boer Bront.
the armour for the man is mostly historic enterprizes, but i have new pieces from Peter Spätling, Craig Sitch, Roman Tereschenko and Luke binks.
i reallllly enjoyed this video ! thank you verry much!
i am glad! thank you for watching
It would make sense riding from the legs and seat considering what we have learned from the old Spanish traditional riders and how they have taught horses. That’s how Western bridle horses became a thing via California and Texas. So that old tradition isn’t lost, it turned into something different. They brought their way of riding in the 1500s to the New World and it stayed.
"Don't forget to convert the savage hostile primitive stone,🪨 age native american tribes of mesoamerica and the andes of South America,🌎 to christianity."💒 "By firing,🔥 a late 15th century to early 16th century renaissance Southern German,🇩🇪 built,🏢 gunpowder and metal lead ball, ⚽ matchlock arquebus with a burning,🔥 wicker cord match attached to the serpentine holder of the matchlock arquebus in order to detonate,💥 the gunpowder inside the arquebus to fire,🔥 the metal lead ball,⚽ from the gun,🔫 barrel and straight into the sky."
there are several traditions that have their roots in this type of work for similar reasons.
all of these traditions have changed over time, to some degree.
What we have done with the Hofreitschule Bückeburg, for instance, is to go back on look at historical sources how we should test those traditional methods, and perhaps recalibrate them back to what their original idea was, and especially clean up some weird things that have slipped into them.
You see a similar process in Californio Vaqueros, like Jeff Sanders, trying to clean up the tradition back to its' roots in a similar process.
Having said that, we are quite unashamedly cherry picking the nicer bits, we are aware of the less savoury parts of history, just recreate the bits we like.
"Alright then."
Even a pike block wouldnt stand a chance against a squadron of barded lancers
pike blocks, known at the time as 'gewalthaufen' (violence heaps) were absolutely huge in order to try and withstand them. We are talking about up to 11000 men in a single unit.
but there are definitely examples of pikeblocks being pierced by cavalry charges, from bouvines in 1214 to Gavere in the 15th cenutry, and others.
yet usually the huge formations were not the main target of cavalry charges, who mostly were concerned with other cavalry.
the thing is... several thousand men huddled in a heap... are not necesarily doing anything usefull on the battlefield, so they can be left standing there whilst the cavalry attacks more important objectives.
when large formations manage to coordinate attacks, like the swiss did in the burgundian wars it gets much more complicated.
but even there the burgundian cavalry attackd in squadron strength im promtu charges and penetrated the pikeblocks, 'and had their hands on the standard' yet they did not defeat the Gewalthaufen and had to retreat and lost the battle.
Inpavia the cavakry runs over an infantry block almost by accident, yet retreats after anyway (though that is a flank charge, i think)
but yes, pikeblocks could be breached by barded cavalry
@airnt very interesting! I didn't realise a pike block was so huge... I doubt any squadron sized force could route one of those! I was thinking of a pike and shotte sized pike block (the sort that winged hussars ran down many times) lol. But can I see how effective barding is now
@@LeChevalierAnglais the winged hussars attacks with very large units.
a squadron was usually 20-25 riders. Having said that medieval lance charges were often 300 or more riders, but the ideal was often about 1500 at a single charge.
Azincourt is a good example, where the French intended to select 1500 riders for the initial charge (before the main assault on foot), but only could find 300 riders in the event.
conversely at the battle of Tewkesbury 300 lancers from the woods behind the hillock attacked somerset in the back of his formation and sessntially won the battle.
@airnt ah I see that the cavalry squadron has varied in size greatly! In more recent times, about 120 men, and in Alexander's era, more like 300. Thanks for the information
@@LeChevalierAnglais it depends also on what you mean with 'squadron'
the 'eskadron' and 'schwadron' of later times is much much larger than the 'banner' that became the 'conroi' or 'Escadre' of the 15th century.
it originally is the number of troopers a count or duke or maybe a 'knight banneret' would field.
So the size is limited by recruting, not a practical limit ont he size of a unit in the field.
these 'banners' were combined into units for the field.
Like a 'vanguard' of anywhere up to 4000 riders, for instance.
later uses of these deliniations are multiples of one another...
tehreby we see squadrons becoming a word for a larger troop, put together in regiments and brigades or divisions.
so the meaning of 'squadron' really shifts.
but even in aircroft today, different nations have rather different numbers of aircraft in squadrons and so forth.
amazing and tremendous
Amazing video.
That's a really beautiful full plate harness you have, may I ask how and where you had it made?
the shaffron and crinet were originally commisioned from Roman Tereschenko 8 years ago. several rounds of adjustments were made to that, now finally being functional
the peytral and crupper were made by Isak Krog and Augusto de Boer-Bont.
Isak had volunteerd to make me the bard (or complete it to go with the shaffron and crinet) as a thank you gift for living/learning/working/riding here for 5 years.
So it was pretty much made on site here in the Armouring workshop here in the garden
@@airnt I was asking more about your personal body harness; apologies, should've been more specific
I wonder if horses knew that armor protected them. There are nailed collars for livestock guard dogs, meant to help them fight predators(and keep the dogs from fighting each other), and they recognize the armor's ability to protect them. As they are flight animals, I find it less likely.
it is a good question, and difficult to say with any certainty.
the vision reduction does mean there is a 'see no evil, hear no evil' effect, which is a different mechanic than the example you describe.
this occurs, that the shaffron means the horse can see where it puts its feet but not that there is a pikeblock arrayed ahead of it.
I do feel the horse kinda acts like that it is more confident, but i don't know if that is just my confirmation bias.
Very interesting video! Good job :)
What is Max's breed? Percheron? I love that roman nose :)
Technically 'horse exported from Spain' (so unpapared andalusian).
Percherons are MUCh larger, have a steeper shoulder, much larger hooves, feathers, etc.
This horse is pretty much as big as medieval warhorses got. There is ONE example in the archeological record of the size of this horse from the 15th century (siege of Utrecht) at 158 cm at the wither. (=15hh2") most warhorses did not really exceed 15hh. Even as taller horses start becoming more available, by the 16th and 17th century, they are NOT selected for warhorses, again 15hh horses being explicitly preferred.
some of the larger horses in that period are used ot pull large artillery trains, though.
moreover the cavalry warhorse is generally selected for ability to collect until the middle of the 19th century or so; hence the warhorse has a shoulder and croup built to collect, a very different chest to a draft, etc, Percherons are lovely horses but not particularly close to medieval warhorses, objectively speaking.
Great LARP video!
i mostly use it for 'live action wargaming' (re-enactment) rather than 'live action role playing' to be honest.
LARP is by its definition based around the playing of a role in a context, and live action in that you get dressed up. This is mostly used in a context of playing at tactical scenario play, like a tabletop wargame is using figures on a tabletop to consider tactical dispositions.
in fact an event i am organizing in September is billed (by an actual veteran and military officer) as 'medieval mil sim'.
all of these activities have definite overlaps, so it depends on what you find defining of them.
but if you want to cathagorize it as LARP i have no real problem with that.
I wonder how different scale or chainmail armor is putting on a horse
well it works differently, a bit more like putting a caparison on, really.
Brilliant! Danke.
Brilliant!!!
danke dir
I wonder how they trained horses for battle? I'm guessing they have agressive instincts the could be used? Did they know to seek and chase enemies? Are they in tune with the riders intentions or dis they have to me managed all the time?
we have a few mentions, like training where the infantry first runs away from the horses giving them confidence, there is a lot more to it.
you place every hoof all the time, really, as footwork to your martial arts, this is why the dressage is so important
All you need is a mastiff in armor and you’ll look like a german lord ready to crush some rebels
well i do live in a German Schloß ;)
Very well done, congratulations to Isak and Augusto (or did someone else make it?) for making this glorious bard. But now inquiring minds want to know: when is the fully articulated horse armor from the Thun Sketchbook coming? 😋
The shaffron and crinet were made by Roman Tereschenko, then adjusted by sven, then adjusted more extensively by Isak and Augusto.
the Peytral and crupper were made by Isak and Augusto entirely.
@@airnt ah well, then congratulations to Roman and Sven to 😁
Amazing
Thank you! Cheers!
Bravo!
grazie
Its like an albrecht durer engraving, jumped off of the page?.
This is very interesting to watch, both to put some context and reality to the source material, but also that age old "infantry vs. cavalry" debate in military history circles. I suspect you are leaning towards (based on some of the comments in this and the historical horse armor video) a logistical interpretation. The expense, training, and time to deploy for armored and mounted men at arms strikes me as a supply officer's worst nightmare.
I would also be interested, if it could be done safely, in seeing how pikemen and lancers actually relate in reach: is it an individual advantage, or is it just that the number of pikemen equal to the cost of the horseman can make it a very difficult for a frontal attack to work?
uhhh!! very nice subjects!
Those indeed need long explanations of my position on them
usually the arguments of why 'knights were actually useless' are rather unconvincing.
the expense and whole structure of society was there to support the production of quality cavalry, so it seems important to them.
also even the prime examples of battles where 'cavalry failed' to a large extant were actually won with cavalry charges )crecy and poitiers the english charged on horseback to decide the matter)
the massive importance of rider war that i keep japping on about for the last decade is a huge thing, and the difference in supply lines issues from modern warfare make cavalry less problematic.
having said all of that, combined arms are the way to go... given that you combine arms correctly for each situation.
infantry is easily left behind, though, with the lack of trains and trucks, they might easily just not be in a place to do anything at all. This even goes for sieges where a swift advance might preclude an enemy to build up the defenses enough to prevent a frontal assualt from succeeding earlyon.
Fredrick the victorious does a lot of that.
Hence... the quintessential plucky chip-on-your-shoulder-against-aristorcatic-repression yeoman archer isn't actually even infantry pre se, in that they are widely used as dragoons, really. The fact that they are horse mobile seems a large part of their value over other archers, which were widespread and used the same bows.
supplying horses was a big deal and the quality and type of said horses. Yet warhorses by the thousands in well structured units, set up for the occasion, almost like a 'kampfgruppe' in WWII parlance, where troops were hand picked for a job, were widely used and generally effective.
anyway, i have done tests to charge cavalry through pikeblocks, even with 6 m pikes vs 3 meter lances (medieval reality seems to only have evidence for 4,5 m pikes and 3,6-4,5 m lances, so this test was stacking the odds against the cavalry) and with lance techniques from the fencing manuscripts you can open up a pikeblock with a committed wedge attack as described and depicted in the period sources.
the size of the formations is key to their ability to resist cavalry attack, at 5000 men strong blocks etc.
also, don't underestimate the complexity of the formations involved, like cavalry wings supporting the infantry, and gunners in the tertios.
pikeblocks do get charged and defeated, like at the battle of gavere.
i think the main thing that makes the 'top trumps' discussion of 'cav v s inf' so rubbish is that people completely ignore the difficulty of controlling large bodies of men in tactical coordination without radios and the like. Hand to hand fighting requires very very tight coordination, and this is essentially based on pre planned maneuvres for the infantry, whereas the cavalry can have tendril-like wedge attacks following a specific commander like a fluid , hence being the only real thing a commander can use to react to the enemies actions.
@@airnt Thank you for the detailed reply.
1). Is this pike and lancer thing something you either have a video of, or can do another one in the future?
This wouldn't just be interesting for the youtube historical scene, but actually of enormous importance for notions of "military revolution", and many other contexts with armored lancers (Indian, Central Asian, Sassanian or Iron Pagoda Horsemen in Jin China).
After all, it is hard for even the best historians to sift fact from fiction without people actually doing the physical actions (Froissart, for instance, has a number of sequences that were "spicing up" events to make them more chivalric and exciting).
It would be great to have a better grasp of what is pure fantasy, and what is reasonably plausible.
2). I think the point about movement for infantry is critical. Especially in Eastern Europe, it would be easy for a mounted army (Scythian, Hun, Mongol, Crimean Tatar, or some Russian and Polish armies) to simply avoid infantry columns, destroy the fodder for their supply wagons, or pick only good engagements.
3). When I was talking about logistics, I meant not only as a relative cost thing within Medieval and Early Modern Western European armies (infantry unit vs cavalry unit), but also a comparative one vs armies in Eastern Europe, Central Asia, Iran, India, and China.
Jos Gommans, for example, estimates that there were between 1-3 million war horses in India and China (each) in the 1100-1800 CE period. The book is "The Indian Frontier: Horse and Warband in the making of Empires", on page 104.
This would obviously not be sustainable in Europe (especially western europe) at this time, and would have a lot to do with rapidly increasing armies becoming proportionally more infantry populated.
@@lachirtel1 just a quick reply: the tricky part of all these topics is that the usual bias is to absolutism... as in... 'pike trump cav' this is not true, but the tendency to be heard to say 'cav trumps pikes' would be equally wrong.
Tryin to make an argument about it is a long discussion to do it justice. I have been trying to gather enough material to really reference enough examples to show the point convincingly, though i need to make sure i have followed up all the examples fully. The annoying thing is to get the original reference, or text without translation errors just takes time. (as i am not a historian, it is more of a faff for me than for most)
the issues with source critiscism are also complicated... just being sceptical of more herioc actions is not good enough. because source critiscism is not just staying in the middle of the road, it is figuring out what the data actually shows through the fog of bias.
hence it is easy to show that things are not 'impossible' but how often things were actuall attempted at all, or when it was applied or if there were other solutions to the problem (that further made it possible) is quite another.
anyway, i will try to make a good video about it. I did cover some of this in my lecture i did a while ago for
@@airnt Outstanding video - I 'found' it via 'Modern History TV' where you did a session with Jason Kingsley which was most impressive.
If I may add just one small observation to this fascinating debate about 'car v inf': I'd suggest that this might eb due to the experience of what would probably be described the last persistent cavalry attacks on infantry, namely the Battle of Waterloo where the British squares, the foot soldiers, acted like pikemen against Marshal Ney's cavalry and beat them back. But that's just my opinion - I'm only now learning about all those thrilling aspects of medieval warfare. See: this is the one thing lockdown is definitely good for: enlarging one's knowledge, especially thanks to outstanding videos by people like you.
lol, Max getting treat after treat while the armour is strapped on. Is there a reason he is being fed so many? I know my boy would probably start getting a bit badly behaved after too many treats.
youre both utterly glorious. :)
just to keep him busy, really, he is a bit spoiled.
he definitely begs, but doesn't seem to be a problem so far
@@airnt I think its great for new experiences like this. :)
@@AdelaideSwordAcademy thank you so much
Thank you for the video. I'm a fighter myself but, I've never been much good with horses. I have no patience. An odd trait for a fighter, I know. Still, I've always been curious about horse barding. How it works, how functional it really is. This certainly seems like it would do a good job of protecting the horse's vital areas and isn't too heavy for a strong guy like this. But I do feel like maybe there should be a piece for the front of the throat. I don't know how fatal throat wounds are for horse, though.
also see the other video linked in the description for a longer discussion.
there are throat protectors, but they are a bit rare, as it all adds up in terms of bulk, weight and faff of putting it on.
just stumbled onto this video and read you're comment. I have got no clue about armour and such stuff spoken about in the vid, BUT i know a bit about those beautiful and strong animals... just, that they are a bit fragile regarding heavy riders and armour, since they are not built to carry enormous(!) weights. For a healthy training it is quite important to not "overload" you're horses, since the back is more fragile than it seems. They injure more easily when overloaded. But everything is relative. Depends on all sorts of things. But normally a rider for everyday work shouldn't be weighing lot more than 70kg. That is the nowadays standard stuff
so, just as airnt pointed out: a lot more protection may be too kuch weigh and hence may even harm the horse on the "long run" :)
I must ask, where did you acquire your gothic armour? It looks immaculate and I would love to see the makers of this magnificent set!
Isak Krogh, Roman Tereschenko, Luke Binks, but multiple people have contributed to this one.
there are others to recommend too.
Currently in a really cool project with George Juliot, and two projects down the line with Augusto Boer Bront and Chris 'plattner' (and another with Isak Krogh).
Thanks so much, it’s hard to find proper knight armour these days, historically accurate and functional!
This was a great look at "how a horse shall be armed". :D I volunteered for ground crew once at Steve Hemphill's Lysts on the Lake, and learned just how sensitive horses are to any environmental input. I think they told me it can take 2 years to properly train up a horse for jousting, melee, etc. activities. They also said that it's not smart to walk behind a horse, where it can't see you and may become nervous (and kick). Maybe this shows a lot of training and mutual trust (and cookies)?
How long did you spend training Max up to some "sufficient" level for your own riding, training, and events? And specifically how many weeks or months did it take to acclimate him to this point of trying on everything at the same time?
And what is Max's take on all this? Does he enjoy the training in gear, or merely tolerate it for the snacks and attention?
max i bought in 2011 and he rode his first joust in 2012.
at that point training wasn't done yet and i took a long time due to my own inexperience at training horses properly. I think it took until 2014 or so for him to really start doing Tummlen at any degree of competence.
In general a competent horseman was explicitly expected to train a horse in 6-8 months (Löhneysen mentions this, as do various other sources) then another 2 years the horse might be polishing the exercizes it could already perform, perhaps, but the exercizes would be in the repetoir. Some styles claim far shorter training scemes, like Nolan, or Baucher, in a matter of weeks. (not so fond of that myself, and they specifically mention they need to allow a lower level of ambition...)
Max is remarkably keen to fence and melée in particular, he really knows when i draw my sword, and really ramps up his keenness, and really expects to mostly canter everywhere.
so yes , he really loves it.
;my main jousting horse, Sultan is also a guided missle.... he really wants to joust .
I notice 2 things. The first that you have wrapped your knees. I am aware that some texts state this. What fabric do you use? Second, I usually see you in breechs in your videos. DO you make them or purchase them? And Third, thank you so very much for your video's. They are very informative. Your horsemanship is impressive. The result of a lot of hard work by the look. Bravo sir
The kneewraps are just a length of wool. 'thin blanket' is mentioned, this is just wool broadcloth.
My riding trousers i just wore through after a year are indeed bespoke. I was trying to make them mself, but due to my student damaging my sewing machine he offered to do them for me on the replacement as my window of opportunity in time had passed. He did a better job than i could have done.
I probably will need to make a few more pairs from this pattern, i hope.
the main features that make these so superior are the legs being cut to be splayed and the length of the trouserleg, this also aids in fencing, moreover the pockets and the victorian cut and high waist work with the dolman i happen to have and the stripe is useful when instructing
@@airnt Thankyou so much fro the thoughtful reply. I'll try that pants cut. It looks regency. Cheers Anthony
@@anthonyclare6750 yeah just at rest the legs should be splayed at least 90°
some earlier ones have full spagat play even.
the large poofy trousers from the 17th century also are all splayed very distinctly
Ah wearing a sword! Nice!
People in harness are always riding without them ^^ or walking without them. Generally not wearing them.
ah yes, the funny thing is that it is way less annoying if you wear the sword stright down or almost straight down. most people get told to have a diagonal carry, this is just a pain.
I mounted with it too, i completely forgot i was wearing it. I suppose i wanted to do the triumpfant sword pose from the Wallace Collection, but i was just too distracted
@@airnt I prefer straight down wear with arming swords when on foot too. With armingswords and short longswords.
Ive been riding with a bad ren-fair-quality scabbard straight down which worked.
I can imagine that canted scabbards would annoy sometimes when mounted.
Wearing my high quality scabbards always works out. I dont even felt my arming sword that much when i wore it while fencing longsword. Ive never ridden with those but will at some point for sure :)
A good scabbard and suspension makes the difference. Like Dominique Humbert or Leo Todeschini make them.
Thanks for the thorough answer!
@@AGermanFencer yes, i very much prefer vertical carry with pollaxe on foot too, or anything, really.
Danilo did a whole video on diagonal carry, so as you can tell, points of view are quite different.
the duke of newcastle is even seen with a sidesword in one of those multi looped suspensions where he only used the front ones to make sure his sword would hang down on horseback
Dude I'm sure that the price of this knight is at least 160 food 140 gold.
Impressive! In the previous video you mentioned armoured reins protecting the throat of the horse, are you planning to add these?
The bit is actually present, it does actually bridge the gap between the chin and the peytral
@@arnekoets3085 Misunderstanding, I meant the reins (not the bit), protecting the sides of the neck (not the throat actually), I had it mind the types reinforced by a chain or articulated steel plates.
i see what you mean, i just wasn't meaning to add them.
i have a set of very broad and short leather ones, so broad it would probably be almost impossible to cut them fully anyway (the attachment would fail first, as it would just the same with an armoured rein) I suppose i could try to ride with that and the armour too, that might make a bit of difference
armoured reins are around, both with chains added to the rein as well as plates rivetted to it. depictions show often that they are not used, so i was not wanting to have more dangling on his mouth than i needed
@@airnt Thanks for the detailed answer!
Отлично! Очень красиво.
how did they train them to be able to carry barding and an armored rider? they must have been the horse equivilent of a bodybuilder
historical riding styles are training very collected movements, the first teach sidemovements, then turns and acceleraating out of tight turns.
they really do muscle up the horses deliberately and make aan effort to be ind so the horse will be relaiable in battle.
The minimum level of ability (in armour one handed) for men-at-arms, and definitely knights, waas to be able to casually ride canter pirouette, mezair, lead changes, things like that.
movements/exercises at or beyond grand prix level of dressage were taken for granted for whole units of cavalry, hundreds or even thousands in a unit.
so yes, they were bodybuilding their horses deliberately for the work.
Does anyone know how I can make the tack around the horses face &mane?!!
the bridle itself or the shaffron and crinet?
the bridle is made of leather strips and attachments with brass plates wrapped around the end and rivetted on (or you could use chicago screws so you can swap bits etc)
the steel parts are much more involved.
those are cut from 1 mm C45 carbon steel sheet, then heated with a gas torch and forged with hammer and anvil into complex shapes, polished and deburred... lining fashioned form padded linen, straps of leather, buckles hand made...
so that is quite involved. the fitting is really critical.
this crinet is a series of ball joints, so particularly complex and sophisticated.
or did i misunderstand the question altogether?
Bonjour en quoi est faite l'armure du cheval en quel matériau ?
C45 steel, Shaffron: Roman Tereschenko, Armure: Isak Krogh
Who made the barding? I have been looking for someone or some company who makes bardings
it is a complicated process, this was made by sak krogh , augusto boer bont, and roman tereschenko
@@airnt Thank you I will try and look him up. Will try to get in touch with him
What about the horses legs?
i go into detail on why that wasn't armoured in the video 'a look around a 1480 full plate horse armour' on this channel, it is a bit of a long story and it is eaasier if i can show the angles in that video
Max looks stunning in the armour. 😍
I just stumbled across this video and it is very interesting and something to take in.
How long have you both been training together and how long has Max been in training altogether? (How old is he?)
Great riding skills you two have got. 👍
i bought Maximilian at 5 years old, now ten years ago, that makes him 15.
i usually ride him 5 times per week, and we mostly do dressage in a more historical fashion.
This horse was the one i trained when learning at court, so the development was perhaps not as quick as it could be as i was learning to train a horse myself.
@@airnt Wenn ich es richtig gesehen habe, habe ich in der Zwischenzeit herausgefunden, dass Sie Deutsch sprechen?
Eine wunderbare Sache, dass Sie sich so viel Zeit genommen haben, auch wenn es vielleicht etwas schneller gehen könnte. Pferde in maximaler Geschwindigkeit auszubilden hat ja noch nie wirklich zu einem langen, gesunden Leben und einer nachhaltigen Ausbildung bei den liebevollen, sanften Nasen geführt.
Alles Gute für Sie, Ihr/e Pferd/e und Projekte. Auf jeden Fall äußerst spannend einen Teil der Geschichte zur Reiterei kennen zu lernen. 😁
@@juliesonnenblume danke sehr
ja ich habe immer gelernt 'take time but don't waste time' und das war in diesen Fall schon die Zeit die ich gebraucht habe.
Pferd ist auch nicht ganz ohne... mit 4,5 hatte er schon Hufrolle auf beide Vorderbeine, aber ist abgekört auf 3 Beine sogar. (eine Menge physio-Arbeit steckt da schon herein)
Immerhin ist es mein zuverlässiges Roß bis zum heutigen Tag, ich hoffe das er mich noch lange Zeit begleiten kann.
@@airnt Sie wissen gar nicht, wie sehr es mich erfreut so etwas zu lesen. Heutzutage werden leider viel zu viele Pferde verschlissen. Diese - auch auf Tiere im Sport - übertragene Wegwerfgesellschaft ist fürchterlich.
Haben Sie ein Video, welches zur Bedeutung der Pferde im Allgemejnen, aber auch speziell für Ritter/... war sowie deren Ausbildung zum Schlachtroß? War die Herangehensweise an ein Pferd sehr anders als heute?
@@juliesonnenblume das ist eine etwas schwieriges Thema, weil die Quellenlage so verstreut ist.
Ich habe das angesprochen in mein Artikel in das Festschrift von die Veste Coburg, wo ich noch einiges belegen konnte.
ich habe auch ein Vortrag gemacht in die Vortragsreihe von Lorica Clothing der da einiges aussagt
am Moment sind wir noch so verblieben das wir Übungen als notwendig für fechttechniken und so weiter sehen, und ein paar aussagen über Pferdeausbildung die zwar sehr kurz sein, aber paralelen finden in die Renaissance, wo die Anleitungen deutlich klarer und ausführlicher sein.
Es gibt eine interessante Entwicklung der Sätteln und Gebiße und denn gibt es ein Paar aussagen von Don Duarte, bzw die ganze Fechtbücher die Roßfechten beschreiben.
klar ist das 'wenden auf den kleinen Teller' und 'Tummeln' eindeutig zum repetoir gülten die man erwartet hatte von einen Ritter oder Reisige.
Weiter wird klar gemacht das Lanzenkampf und Schwertkampf deutlich mehr prezision fragt als Kampf mit Pistolen.
Vorhandwendungen in Galop werdden beisonderes besprochen in verband mit Kampf zu Roß, ins beisonderes Kontragalopvorhandwendungen in starken Versammlung.
denn gibt es Abbilungen von sehr bestimmte Übungen in explizite context des Kampfes. Sachen wie Galop pirouette, terre-à-terre, mezair, courbette, carrière, falcade, sogar halbe Levade.
also, die Reiterliche Fähigkeiten des berittene Kampfwesen gingen deutlich über Grand Prix hinaus.
Außerdem haben wir Belege für alte Pferde die noch großen Wert haben in Erben, und so.
Die Methode des Pferdeausbildung ist sehr congruent mit die Renaissance, und großenteils mit die Barock
Seitengänge und kleine Kreise, beschleunigungen auf Geraden, deutliche Aufrichtung, Suche nach Hohen Versammlungssgrat, Rittigkeit, Freien trittbewegung (und damit Rückenschwung) in hohen Versammlung...
figuren wie Passaden (hin und her gallopieren) Carrés und achten sind sehr üblich.
Es ist manchmal sehr klar das die 'Galopstellung' bevorzügen über 'trabstellung'....
Erste ausbildung ab 5 jahre alt sind wir bei etwa 6 monate, den weitere aufbau und verfeinerung im Durchschnitt von ein weitere 2 Jahre.
üblicherweise arbeiten kriegspferde bis über 20 Jahre alt bis weit in die 30 manchmal.
Es gibt so viel zu sagen, und so weinig eindeutige Beweise.
I've been looking around and you look like a guy who'd know a trusted website to get full plated Knight's armor, to wear comfortably. Where can I find Knights armor without running the risk of getting ripped off, not being able to wear the armor comfortably, or even not be able to move?
usually you would commission a harnes from a reputable armourer. These things these days are usually made bespoke
so it depends a little where you are based, where you could travel for fittings.
in the USA, Europe, Australia?
it does depend on your budget a bit as well.
and what you want to do in it.
I have worked myself with American, Australian, Ukrainian, Swedish, German, Italian, and Danish armourers, but i have had dealings with a bunch more.
In other words, the recommendation list might be a little long, before narrowing it down to locality
Ego sum Regiae Nobilitatis Hungariae Transylvaniee⚜️
Nobilis eques Regis Hunyadi Janos⚔️
MMM hominem raptor ordo pugnavi per me⚔️
Habeo flammeum gladium ⚔️
Pugnavi diaboli ⚔️
Ego pugnabo leonem ⚔️
Im publice #1 Eques Historia Mundi ⚔️
How much did the horse armor DLC cost?
most of it was a trade, so i paid 1000 and 300 euros
I think... the whole project was about.. 8 years?
How much do you weigh?
i myself weigh 78 kg