Do carbide blades ACTUALLY last longer than cheaper ones?
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
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#woodmizer 
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After years of using standard steel blades on my band saw I bought a very expensive carbon tipped resaw blade this winter. It cuts through walnut and Pa. Black Cherry like butter. Very smooth and the finish cut is very fine. I’m sold.
On your previous video I provided the information to your closest resharpening company that can keep those blades up and running without having to replace or throwing them away, give them a call before you discard the idea of changing over.
When you and your sister installed this blade I noticed you didn’t adjust the blade guides or the blade depth rollers , these carbide tipped blades are not the same thickness and proper adjustments are a must for optimal performance. Not only have I seen boards with scalloped cuts across the boards every half inch or so but you mentioned that at times the blade will dig into the wood when dulled by a nail, these blades if properly installed, can handle most common nails without damage. I would suggest that whomever does the maintenance on this machine pulls out the manuals and go over this machine and set all the required points for better performance.
On your owners manual you will find this note:
Make sure the blade screw in the top center of the C-frame is 1/16" (1.5 mm) away from the blade. If not, loosen the nut and adjust the screw as necessary. Check the screw every 500 hours of operation. Failing to maintain this adjustment will lead to early blade breakage.
I hope this explains what may have caused the breakage.
Geez this family is great. Emerald always has great commentary. Jade and Emerald work like a machine!❤
They make welding machines for band saw blades. Look into them.. you might be able to extend the life of a blade with a simple weld. We did it in a woodworking shop and they have machine for the bigger blades as well. Good Luck & stay safe..
You are very informative and talk at a level normal people can understand...we love you from Powell River BC Canada
Take a look at Matthew Cremona sight 😊he uses all carbide blades buys them from wood miser he frequently has nails and it goes thru them and keeps cutting. I am sure he would respond to you.
Thanks Emerald, sad that it broke, could have just had a defect. But you never know. Be interesting to see how many hemlocks it will cut, if it would go more than a week then it would be fantastic. Thanks to Jade for her camera work and you ladies have a great weekend! TTFN
I do not know anything about milling logs, but I am learning stuff I never knew. Thank you.
You may find that you need to run the mill feed a bit slower when using the carbide blades. If you get a spot welder from Granger or Harbor Freight, you can reweld that blade yourself. Grandpa should have no problem with that.
its pretty difficult to weld up a blade and have it perfectly straight.. also i think from what she said about the weld being on the other piece its in 2 pieces and you can see its bent so .. hey it happens .. i wish she mentioned if other blades have snapped on them.. i'm sure they have.
When you weld a blade together you also have to heat the weld up to around 1200 degrees to soften it so it is flexible. If not it would just snap.
@@mgbill793 you aneal it
@mgbill793 Back in 1967, I was a machinist in a shop back in New Jersey, and we spot welded bandsaw blades often with no problems until the spot welder ceased to work. No breakage problems with blades. After the welder broke, we brazed the blades. That worked well also.
@@mike97525 yes, that is the it.
😆Love the shirt! "Don't worry I hugged it first" That's great!
Yep..Boss Man needs one too;)!
Uhhh.....yes. I have been using carbide tipped blades for right around 50 years and it's not in question anymore. The same shops that should be in your area by the dozens that can sharpen your carbide blades can also reweld them if needed. Cost should still be a tenth what a new blade costs. For that reason alone they are the smart purchase.
Having Christ as your Lord is necessary before the time of death
@@Islandwaterjet Texas - standard carbide blade sharpening is by the tooth and geometry but a 30 tooth rip blade which costs ~$100 will cost ~$0.50-0.75 per tooth to get sharpened and I havre some I've had sharpened 7-8 times. Someone doing enough bandsaw blades to put in the automatic feed advance sharpeners will be getting roughly half that per tooth. The only $30 blades for my bandsaw (18" Jet) are plain steel (no carbide). I sharpen them with a Dremel and chain saw stones once, in situ on the saw, and then toss them.
@@Islandwaterjet $25 for a blade that large?
Are you sure they are carbide?
Stellite is far superior and more likely if you have been using for 50 years. As for sharpening. Wet grinder is the only option.
@@jamesoliver6625 in another 50 years where will you be ? Heaven or hell?
Blades develop cracks in the gullets due to all the flexing take place. You can run a blade for a full day and it does not go dull, but cracks form. If you are planning to use your blade to the fullest, you must only put around two to three hours on it even if it still working fine. The sharpening of the blade incudes the removing of material in the gullets which removes these cracks.
I occurs to me that buying your favorite blade in bulk rolls, then cutting to length and welding onsite might be an answer since you do a lot of processing with the same machine. Grandpa might even go so far as to cut out bad sections and splice 2 resharpened sections together !
That's a good idea. That would reduce the cost per blade significantly, and not thar hard to do. I suspect there is a fixture available somewhere that would make that relatively easy.
A full day of Hickory is probably equivalent to 3 days of Hemlock so essentially you got 6-7 days before it broke. I would say you should be using carbide, also you can use a dremel tool with a diamond wheel to resharpen them.
Thanks for the tech followup!!
👍🧙♂️
Thanks Emerald for the comment's on blades and great camera work Jade hope u have a good weekend
I just have to chime in off subject, as a native Texas, everytime Em says "Log Yawd" I still chuckle, now on to my carbide blade lesson
That is the best shirt you've made. Love it❤️
I held off on my opinion until you had your own experience. Essentially, your experience is mine. It's a nice treat to run a carbide on my LT40, and I do keep a couple on hand for special situation logs, but for daily use, I can't justify the cost.
If You take into consideration the extra downtime to make the changes? I am not familiar with milling wood or steel or other metals, but often we do not take the cost for downtime due to tool change and set up, time is money and every minute that the mill is not cutting it is just another bucket of money going to waste.
Thanks for the feedback. Your shirt cracks me up too, lol.
Enjoy U'r weekend. Greetings from South Africa.
I was pretty sure the carbaide Blade would last longer, some fire companies have carbide chainsaw blades, because they last longer and dont dull as much cutting threw nails etc. This video was very interesting to watch for me
LOL - I love that shirt!! Don't throw the blade away. Especially if there is still life in it. It can be easily repaired if it broke clean. All it takes is a TIG welder and 5 mins. They can also be brazed. I've repaired them both ways with broken and cut blades quite often with no issues. Some blades would have multiple joints where we replaced sections of bad or missing teeth. Personally, I would invest in carbide and the ability to sharpen them. Although the initial cost is greater, carbide blades have longer life expectancies with lower overall lifetime costs when properly maintained. Often we the reason we tossed blades wasn't because it couldn't be repaired or sharpened, but because it would wear to a point that it was too thin to safely use. Good luck. Love seeing a family business thrive. Especially in this economy.
It cannot be easily repaired, if it could be, I would’ve said on the video
That is a fair assessment of the blade’s performance. The probability is high simple metal fatigue killed your blade. Track the performance of multiple blades and compare them to the longevity and speed of the blades you normally use. The numbers will tell you which blade is the best investment. It is called a cost benefit analysis.
Question...
Are you running the blade at the same speed, and feed rate as normal blades.
Do you have the option to increase the speed ?
Might be the reason the blade broke 🤔
I would contact Woodmizer customer support concerning the blade break.
They are not going to do anything other than make excuses or blame it on improper operation...
When I was running a band saw at a shake and shingle mill the advice I got was to sharpen it every day, regardless of how sharp it was.
This was to remove microfractures in the gullet, which could expand and eventually break the blade.
Apparently the steel being flexed a few times each second to go around wheels then straight for the cut is not good for it.
Company I worked for added ice to the lubricant on metal saw. Later that saw was running almost 24/7 and they decided to installed cooling unit for lubricant to keep a whole 250 gallon IBC around 5*C
The reason is, the hot blade expands and softens making it dull a lot faster
"diamond wheel" could also mean an MDF wheel charged with diamond polishing compound, though.
Em, you’re wearing one of the blue tees I bought! Cool, all followers need your merch! I know little about metal fatigue but maybe a fluke. Try another and see. Nice subject matter and LCLY always is a joy to watch.
I'm snort laughing watching the safety barrel walking across the yard on your web site. Nice!
Good job Em and Jade! Have a great weekend LCLY! 👍👍
All you have to do is weld it back together, grind it smoothly, and put it back on the lt 40. When I was 18, that was the job I did. It's was for cold rolled steal, not wood, however.
Peace and Ahev
Great update! Thumbs up! Jim
Use a GREEN STONE grinding wheel to sharpen Tungsten Carbide, they're $25 apiece. To fix a broken blade: Grind the ends 90° or square, then angle ground so the 2 halves come together nicely with no additional thickness. Then, mig weld, braze or even solder together. Be careful not to heat up the blade too much by using heat sinks but then after the welding, anneal the area by heating it and slowly slowly cool it down. ben/ michigan
Based upon the previous comments, please continue to experiment with the carbon blades and let’s see if we can zero in on the problem; there’s some valuable lessons to learn here.
You also have to admire woodmiser for donating the blades, that makes this experiment very affordable!Reno
Em, you can probably fins a diamond wheel for carbide for around $40- $50.
Time for Em to learn how to weld the blade ends together. As manufacturing cut costs so do the carbide blades. It's a great market for a much improved Milling blade.
Good teaser! Watch for next time. Maybe Woodmiser can take a look at it and help diagnose why it broke.
If it cost twice as much but last over 2 times as long it seems better. The softer wood will saw better for a longer time. Excellent video review ladies thank you.👍♥️♥️
Ha! Love your shirt, and it looks so good on you Em.😘
So cool ,I asked about Carbide blades and in a couple days you had a video about them! At my old wood shop we had a spot welder and grinder on the band saw! Just to fix broken blades. I was from the 1940s when they made things to last. You'll get spoiled using them and I think the product quality and out put will in the long run be more cost effective. Just like in Construction, no one uses a steel blade on their saws.
0:14..........👍
I thought the carbide tip blade would last longer.
I'm sure there are fans below with a lot of knowledge on this subject.
Great channel Em..........learning so much.
Seems a lot of comments are generally suggesting the same thing, but carbide in rolls, weld it yourself and sharpen as needed. From my understanding you will be looking at spending hundreds as an investment not thousands on a welder and sharpening. Don't know about the rolls. But, of course, run more tests then run the costs and see what the facts say in your particular case. You guys are smart you'll figure it out.
I was disappointed that you did not show a good close up of the condition of the cutting edges on the blade. Regardless of why it actually broke, Roland Pinette seems to have it covered, it would have been good to examine it for wear. Is it possible there is metal in the log that broke it? Carbide is hard enough to just cut through small pieces if the feed isn't too high. About sharpening, investigate CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) wheels instead of diamond. It may be a better value proposition.
Love the shirt Emerald 😊
I must say that hearing the numbers thrown about for the cost of the cheap and expensive blades, versus the cost of labor here in the big city it would seem to me that kicking the broken/worn-out blade to the side and installing new is the way to go!
Of course doing a cost benefit analysis may be warranted considering your labor is your family etc., etc. And money isn't everything. Around here it is the only thing! Love your show!
For them, money is important but they said they can sharpen around 4 of their previous blades per hour. They cost around 30-40 I think, so that is a savings of over 120 per hour. They just wait until they have a large amount then do a batch at once it seems. And it only takes one person to resharpen. So it is definitely viable to resharpen, until the blades got below $15. Then it would be questionable. But you do have the idea of reduce/reuse, and that itself is valuable unless then blade gets below $10, and I doubt they will get that cheap for a new one.
The carbide blade can be welded with a tig, then the excess material can be ground down by a hand grinder. Any certified welder can do this. It's a 10 min job
Bandsaw blades are very easy to weld.. Just have it TIG welded, grind it smooth and you're good to go.. Any Machine shop or Welding shop should be able to take care of it in about 2 minutes...
Only thing is though usually teeth break when the band comes off or breaks. I think from hitting metal that brings them to an abrupt stop. Worth checking the blade though in case I guess!
@@isaiahshaffer HUH? "usually teeth break off when they come off or break," I'm not that advanced...
@@twistedhillbilly6157 sorry, I worded that poorly. Every time I have a blade break or come off, there is usually broken teeth involved too from the blade hitting the metal inside the covers after it comes off 😂
Maybe because the carbide blades are sharper and cut through wood easier, they don't require as much tension put on them to cut as bimetal blades do.
So... is the diamond wheel needed to sharpen your carbide blades 5" or 8"? I have a supplier who can possibly get one for Grampa. (no charge) Wheels are new from Wood Mizer. Let me know, ok?
Try a Stellite tipped blade (it's actually Cobalt. Stellite is a brand name), almost as hard as carbide and can be sharpened with a grinding wheel (pink aluminum oxide with simulated ruby wheel).
Great video girls
Very informative and interesting
I don’t think 🤔 I would make my decision on one blade
You can buy " green stone " grinder wheels.
I sharpen carbide stump grinder and lathe tools no problem.
Cost $100+- for a bench grinder.
Must say " Green stone" which has diamond dust.
Don't breath dust.
Machine shops supply has them .
You should be able to weld it back together ❤😂🎉😢😮😅😊
yes it should be reweldable if the l the base metal is steel. carbide is typically braised with flux. technology keeps changing np .it might be different
With the production of industrial diamonds, the cost of diamond cutting tools has come down dramaticaly. Today, diamond blades should not be that expensive and should outlast conventional carbide blades by a long shot, making them a viable, cost-effective solution to carbide blades. Your test should tell you which way to go as to cost and longevity. Kind Regards,
Dave
my question for emerald and grand pa. what sharpener do they use and what kind of wheels do they use what kind of wheel deesser do they use depending on wear on the grinding wheels.
Isn't vibration an issue with diamond?
@@mrwaterschoot5617 Did you not notice? THE BOSS MAN shut the post down. No new post today. Definitely not getting an answer from Emerald or GrandPa. The Boss Man is back in control.
it is what it is. i am looking for knowledge for me when i get out of forced retirement back to the land i loved for over 50 years. i apologize to the boss man. emerald is one of his jewels and possibly grand pa got called to heaven. if that happened a lost of a good father takes time to heal. you lose the mortal physical body, yet their spirit continues to live in out souls. i know first hand my dad got taken 11 years ago. and on tomorrow may 24 my brother left earth for heaven. he chose 4 days of hospice care and a guaranteed death sentence. than taking life extending dialysis and feeling his body deteriorate until it failed later. he had complications of high blood pressure many years ago. the meds prescribed were not kidney friendly and eventually the kidneys did fail. it took a long time and medical professions prepared for that day and set up a port for dialysis and a possible kidney transplant. my brother eddie is ab+ and i got the ab- version. we were lead to believe that my rarer blood type would kill his rare blood type would kill
ab+ type makes less than 4% of the world population and ab- and ab+ combined is still less than 4%. one fact is ab folks can only donate to ab folks. yet they accept from a, b, and the universal o folks. my mom is a or b and had female plumbing issues and was within hours of going to heaven for severe blood loss. with the help of surgery and blood donations. she survived. my brother and i became blood donors in the late 1970s or early 1980s. he and i 250 miles apart donated over a 100 gallons of blood each in our life time. eddie did it the slow way with the 2 hour long process of draw and spin and extract plasma and other blood components and return the rest back. this allows every 4 weeks donation. i donated whole blood which is a 15 minute donation time and a 15 minute recovery and rehydration time and a rest bit before moving on. a whole blood donation is quicker but it can only happen if you build up the iron in the blood and all is well . but it requires about 4 months.
eddie was and i still am alive as organ donors.
mom is still alive at 88 with memory care issues.
my public service announcement. donate blood if you can. become an organ donor for after god calls and takes your mortal life. if you have a family member in need of an organ and you have a two of them check to see if you can donate one. it could be a gift of a longer life on earth. instead of letting your mortal body return to dirt. consider being an organ donor and/or donate the mortal remains to science. when they are done they can have the remains respectfully cremated and the ground bones and ash returned to earth. yes it depends on your spiritual beliefs and the necessary healing for your loved ones left behind in your life and legacy as you transition for eternity.
I have a question. Why are the boxes for honeybees always made from pine. And hemlock is better in the weather. Is the cost a big difference. Thanks in advance.
I noticed the kink in the carbide blade at 3:15. Is that normal?
You mentioned a couple days ago that the blade guide was not perfect. Could that have contributed to the blade failing?
The BOSS must be very impressed with Emerald and Jade.
Emerald tell your Grandpa he can use a green wheel to sharpen Carbide cheaper alternative it will break down a lot quicker though. But it might just get the job done.
Yes green wheels .. I use them.
Good luck with your channel
I see a lot of post on welding blades. I would like to learn that. And how to sharpen a carbide blade.
You are looking pretty all in blue 👍
From today's comments and some of your previous, maybe going through and checking all your mill adjustments plus look for worn parts, eh?
you dont weld your broken blades?
Blade can be welded if not bent to bad to be straighten .
Might be worth doing .
Keep up the great work .
Keep the sawdust flying .
We welded our blades together ourselves in the machine shop I worked at. The blades came on rolls
Good info. Can you weld the blade back together? How useful are fixed blades? Thanks for sharing
Does Woodmizer resharpen their carbide blades. Years ago I worked at a boy scout camp and we could send in our old steel blades. Fun days they were.
Send it back to get welded . Check with a 10x eye loop for micro fractures on the metal blade . Check your guide tensions for clearance . Carbide on wood is the best investment for you guys.
reweld it , grind it smooth and have another go :)
Very good Video 👍 👍
I just looked up the price of a diamond grinding wheel and the 5" is $180 and the 8" is $350. That does not seem that bad to me but hey I dont do this for a living.
And if properly cared for the wheels will last much longer than a regular aluminum oxide wheel.
Dam technology
I would bet my socks that it was metal fatigue that broke it. It happens when you use it more then 3-4 hours a day. In Norwegian we call it "metalltretthet". the metal gets stretched and needs to rest for about a day for not to snap and brake.
The carbide portion of the blade is just the cutting tip the rest of the blade is the regular spring steel that all blades are made from. the carbide tips are brazed on to the blade so the fact that blade broke was not the fault of the carbide.
Is it possible that you had a bad blade?
Too bad it broke might of got the week out of it ❤🪵👍Have a wonderful weekend everyone 😉
I was never interested in logging outfits until moving to the Northwoods. It's this nice family business with down to earth personalities drawing me into the Lumber Capital folks. Ken might want to consider sending Emerald and Jade to college for both to become Communication Majors. I see a natural skill with the "Blade Babes!" ❤
Either one could become an anchorwoman. 😊
You should consider longer videos than 4-5 minutes
Are the teeth still sharp? If so, you can contact the vendor, describe the blade tension, feed rate and speed you used to see if your settings were good or at fault. Also a good look at the failed blade ends ( under magnification) can tell you a lot about why the blade failed. Good luck, but remember that luck improves with increased understanding.
Love the shirt...
great review..
Check the broken blade for gullet cracks beyond where it broke . This maybe a indicator it’s time was over anyway. Be safe
Talk with Woodmizer and see if they have any special recommendations for feed and speeds. It might be different for carbide teeth blades.
You might try the carbide on the LT 15
Whadda ya do with hemlock ??
Hey girl do y'all reset the kerf when you sharpen ?
Can’t you weld those back together? I know that we used to weld smaller blades together.
Not in this circumstance
Simple learning curve for them, Unless we were there and saw what happened fist hand we have no idea of what caused this happen. The breakage could have been caused by many factors including a defective blade.
So sit back down in your easy chair and take another sip of whatever you are drinking and enjoy the show.
Weld it back together.
Hello Emerald from Sydney Australia.
Are the rollers inline?
🪵🌏
Are you going to weld the blade back together?
No, I had to cut it in multiple places to get it out of the mill and it was extremely bent
I own a sawmill company aswel in the neterlands i run a forestor pilous ctr100 h60 and i got a question what kind of blade wood you uouse for knotty oregeon pine large logs i hope you will reply to me with friendly regards glenn hatzman from the Netherlands 🇳🇱
On the moment I'm running ripper saw blades
It is easy to tell that you cut hemlock a lot , it cuts like butter . You can get away with running a blade a long time .
Most blades new or after being sharpened should only be run 2-3 hours before they should be sharpened .
I have not tried carbide myself but that seams like you were pushing a dull blade to far .
Just my opinion from my experience .
how much are the carbide blades?
I said that one good thing you have to something that make sense yourself working on crafts for wood amazing wondering that's awesome
What a cliffhanger. Now I am curious about the lifetime without it breaking... We'll see.
Yeh, need more iterations to see if it was a fluke or the break is common in addition to other aspects of it behavior.
I would still save the blades even if you cant sharpen them right now. Either you can sharpen them later or when you collect enough, you can send them to somebody else to resharpen.
Not like they take up too much space.
I don’t think that you understand what happens when a blade snaps. It was so bent I had to cut it out of the mill in multiple places to get it out.