It's amazing how the Speciale changes directions and looks so light on the track. It's almost like a F1 car and it doesn't have a bunch of gigantic outrageous aero parts.
I've always considered the GT3 a sportscar, not a supercar (hence the price difference btween the Ferrari and Porsche).You get seating for 4 (sort of), decent boot, all the luxuries, supremely comfortable on the street and docile when you need it to be. Considering that it could keep up with this lot, the GT3 is a formidable weapon. The GT3 RS (and possible 4.0 liter) and the GT2/RS are going to be absolute monsters and will still somehow be cheaper than the Ferrari.
Neezer D With some googling, I did find that some people have been retro fitting backseats into GT3's and GT2's, pretty cool if you ask me. Especially when you have kids like me.
The 458 is my favourite car since the day it was released. I was quite afraid that it will not stand a chance against the Gallardo's successor or the 650S - but the Speciale seems to kill both, which makes me very happy. The Porsche 911 always was precision and perfection itself, which is proven here as well - way less HP and slightly more weight, and still it keeps up with these two. Wonder what the outcome would be if it was the 911 Turbo or even the Turbo S featured here.
ewt415 000Haze Everything I heard about the new Turbo S is being extremely fast (2.8s to 100 kph from standing and 200 in less than 10 secs, what the fuck) in a straight line but also being very fast on track. Easily beats things like a Nismo Nissan GT-R which is not a slow car... well, I hope the 458 is even faster now.
Let's not bother wondering what the outcome would have been if Porsche supplied a GT2 instead of a GT3... It always surprises me, but you get 10 or more clips featuring the GT3, for each and every GT2 clip...
I think one of the most astonishing things is just how fast and how capable the GT3 is with only a 3.8l naturally-aspirated six. Here it is up against two V8's - one 0.7l more capacity, the other with two snails on it, yet the GT3 is one of the fastest track-capable cars there is. How many other atmo six-cylinder cars can hit 100km/h in the 3's, top 300km/h and remain a genuine all-day, all-weather car? Outstanding.
***** don't forget the S on there. the original 458 is still way more expensive and would get dumped by the gt3 in this exercise. tbh the speciale should be compared to the RS or even the GT2 RS, but neither of them are released yet.
***** step above? the ferrari needed 130hp more and 100kg less to beat a car with the engine behind the rear wheels by one second :D technique, engineering and calibration clearly goes to porsche.
1.2 seconds slower than the 458 over a 90 second lap isn't 95% the performance! In real terms, you'd be almost lapped twice in the Porsche over any real race distance
Fantastic video! It's really amazing how Ferrari manages to be one step ahead of everyone else with its cars. The GT3 is great but the Speciale is, well, so special!
well step ahead... 100kg less, 130hp more and the engine in the middle instead of behind the rear wheels and only one second faster? not so special to be honest.
CrimnlBT there literaly no straights on this particular track where the car can pull away and yet due to Ferrari latest incredible handling you can throw a 605bhp monster round corners and get a faster time compared to a foor wheel drive car that's quite something IMO
CrimnlBT It's 1.2 but keep in mind Castle Combe is a relatively short circuit and the engine at the back helps with traction out of the corners. Also, and most importantly, the GT3 is a great car. Very fierce competition. Finally, what makes a car special isn't its lap time. It's the whole package. The looks, the engine, the noise etc
Lorenzo Locchi 1. accelerating out of a corner is also a thing cars with more power profit from^^ 2. it is not only more powerful but lighter as well. 3. the gt3 is rear wheel drive, not all wheel drive. ianiva nothing to complain about :) just to add: the engine in the back also causes massive deceleration... the 991 gt3 is the fastest breaking production car in the world. its braking is on a level over ariel atom, bac mono, koenigsegg one:1, huayra or p1 and on par with the zonda r (yes... with slicks on the zonda, hard to believe, but true) the old 997 gt3rs 4.0 already managed to get from 300km/h to a full stop in 6.5 seconds with street tyres!
Lorenzo Locchi If you watched the video, you would be able to tell that there were obviously sections where straight line speed played at the Mclaren and Ferrari's advantage.
If all 3 of them were exactly same price I would take Ferrari just because of overall package (brilliant to drive and to look at) but GT3 would be close second. Now knowing the price... GT3 takes the first place by miles! I mean look at that price gap! Imagine all upgrades you could do to that car with spare 90,000£! :o Not sure I would want to upgrade it tho :D (maybe proper weight reduction only)
In no way will it *embarrass* the 458S. The 458 was 1.2 seconds quicker on this fairly small track, and an RS will only have slight power increase and slight cornering increase over the normal GT3, which, at most, will pick up a full second on the track, putting it right near the 458S time. So, if anything, the GT3 RS will perform similarly to the 458S on track, nowhere near *embarrass* it.
Jesse Dix Yeah, like the Speciale is anymore of a street car karlmalone11 RS's have always being noticeably faster than the GT3s. That along with how much better they drove is what made the RS models worth so much more than the GT3s in the used market.
Now everybody can see why Ferrari is nr1. Mclaren may be faster at some tracks but it's mostly thanks to it's turbos. GT3 is less expensive but so was GTR against Porsche turbo. It's not a valid point. And GT2 RS is simply turbo again. Anybody can obviously add some big turbos and gain speed. But try doing it with NA engines. Unfortunately since Mclaren only uses turbo engines and Porsche is going the same way, it will force Ferrari to do the same. It's not fair we will lose these wonderful NA engines (it's not because of emissions) just because the competition can't compete on the same level and have to use turbo engines. Despite Ferrari having the most powerful NA engines in the world (for sports cars), all the competition has to do is keep adding bigger turbos. And despite turbo engines they are obviouly still just close.
I saw this a mile away. Turbocharged engines offer a little more flexibility. You have both great torque with nice hp numbers. At the end of the day such engine setup does seem the best decision. N/A engines are like manuals trans to some degree. Both are great but at the same very limited in a lot of ways. Hate to see them go but the new tech is pushing them out.
It doesn't feel like a technology step up regarding engines, but rather the other way. In this case some auto makers simply cheat their way to performance as they don't have the engineering knowledge to extract the high power levels others can from NA engines. So instead of forcing the cheaters to deliver, they are forcing the good ones to give up the good work. If you want the best experience NA engines are the best with sporty feel and with these kind of prices you should get it. After all, these are not race cars but high end sports cars with high prices, so one expects them to deliver. But that is my view of the matter.
Your points are very valid. When I say new tech ,I'm referring the parts or components that allow turbos to be more efficient. All is inline with you said, still really nothing new as far as the engines. Creating a great N/A engine does take time and resources.Opinions are very broad concerning turbos. Their performance numbers actually bridges the gap between race cars and sports cars. You have the best of both world's at a smaller price and lesser development time. The pureness of a high revving N/A can't be denied. Even F1 caved in to all the politics involved with racing. The same is inline with the road cars.
I agree with you but i think turbocharged engines will only do good, of course we will going to miss the amazing sounds of a V8 NA made in Maranello but lower emissions, more torque, more power in the end will put a smile on our faces. Anyway Ferrari said that for their V12 flagship models will keep using a NA engine plus the eletric motors just like LaFerrari
Jeffrey Williams Lorenzo Locchi I do agree with you about the advantages of turbo engines. More torque and hp and easier development. But I was watching a video from Drive about GT3 and the auto journalist were saying for the "a bit above average driver" (which is meaning auto journalists) it's getting impossible to even get near the performance level of such cars as today's GT3 or Speciale. Their capabilities are way higher than even good drivers. can handle You have to be almost a pro to get the most out of these cars. Drifting in corners (which most auto journalist seems like to do) is not as demanding as to actually driving these cars fast. They were saying in comparison a Cayman is much more rewarding as you can explore its potential much more. Personally I think the hp race is not really a step in the right direction. It's rather ruining some of the good parts. These high end cars are made in small numbers and cost a lot to buy. I can understand cheaper performance or sports cars using turbo but not these jewels. And too much torque in a sports car is never a good thing. In a race car yes. A sports car has to be revy and not feel like a diesel car with a tone of torque. You want to change gear and drive it. With too much torque you will change gear much less as you can ride the torque. And these cars have already all the torque they need. But that is my personal opinion guys. Watch that Drive video if you get a chance watch?v=OmHpmGgIooU&list=UU5rBpVgv83gYPZ593XwQUsA
Do not forget that the ferrari was heavily modified before this review by the factory. Better tires, more power, revised gearbox, lighter just to name a few areas where it differs from customer cars.
Because every video with a ferrari review, someone says they modified it. Shut up no one gives a fuck, people just going on what Chris Harris said 4 years ago. And he has driven alot since then and enjoyed all.
Mitch Ruben Doesn't matter if it was 4 years ago. That statement is still valid. Ferrari either pussy out from car battles or they either "win" them. They didn't give a LaFerrari for the 918 vs P1 race, but they were happy their hardcore track version here against 2 base spec road cars.
1.2 Seconds faster than the Porsche over a 90 second lap is MASSIVE in race terms! Over a real race distance of approx 2hrs you'd be lapped twice by the Ferrari almost twice.
Except Porsche proved time and time again that their cars dominate in endurance races. Nothing ever really fades. Everything on the last lap works just as well as on the first.
JAnx01 Obviously, but I expected much better from a team with the most Le man wins ever. Audi is outperforming them in almost every endurance race this time around and that's without considering their LMP1 program.
Autocar you really stepped it up with your videos lately! By far the best youtube channel! And honestly they're all 3 amazing machines let's get real, i'd go for looks,sound and speed so my choise would be the 458 Speciale
These three cars are absolutely incredible, but honestly I think I would take the 458 Speciale. I say this because I like how it looks, I LOVE the sound and it is the evolution of the 458 Italia (which is my favorite car of all time). 650s and 911 GT3 are both ridiculously good cars as well, no discredit to McLaren or Porsche.
Autocar is clearly blessed by Maranello. The fact they were able to run a comparison of the 458 Speciale with the McLaren 650S and Porsche 911 GT3 says volumes about how much they must be in Ferrari's good graces for the privilege of being able to do such a comparison. Every other publication gets their request denied, plain and simple.
Wow, Autocar with the heavy-hitter videos! Absolutely made my Friday with this! What's next? LaFerrari vs 918W vs P1 at Spa? :) Not sure if the manufacturers screwed up with the tires on their respective cars as both the Porsche & the 458S are supposed to be running on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's while the 650S runs P Zero Corsas with its own bespoke compound.. Regardless, brilliant video thanks for posting.
My thoughts exactly on the next car line up and the tires not the same on the GT3. I'm stumped on why Porsche didn't put the Corsa on their best 991 car? I wonder if putting the Corsa would put the GT3 on par with the McLaren on this track? Better grip, better lap times.
925boosting Don't think a Corsa actually grips any harder than a Cup 2 does anyways, probably less but who knows (I'd love to see a comparison by TireRack between these two). Could see the difference coming down more to do with the linearity of the tire and how progressive it is to drive.
The GT3 was not designed to compete with the 458!! The Turbo is. The upcoming GT3 RS is more like a Speciale fighter... Like the old 997 GT3RS was to the F430 Scudaria. :) But still close call
Turbo is a GT ya, but the closes rival to the 458. It have been that sicne the old 996 Turbo came along with the 360 Modena IN 2000. The GT3 is a track car like the speciale. Thats why the upcoming GT3 RS is the closed rivals . The 991 GT3 closed rival might be the upcoming BMW M3 GT3 ( i THINK ITS CALLED GT3..) Now you know. :)
A serious engineering question. How can these lightweight track based supercars still weight as much as and old e46 m3 (1500kg)? Old steel monocoque with 5 seats Vs. carbon fibre shells, lighter wheels, lighter brakes, ligther suspension, lighter engines...WHERE THE HELL IS THE MASS COMING FROM?!
Please upload the onboard timed fast laps for each cars. I'm sure there's many people who would've liked to see the cars at their limit than just take your word for it.
That McLaren is the embodiment of the McLaren company these days. Ruthlessly efficient but, like Ron Dennis, a bit...boring. Make it sound better for starters.
egon olzen You serious? Theyve made 4 different models, and they have all been top 5 cars in their time, road or racing. Thats a better successrate than both Ferrari and Porsche, even if only looking at their better models. Theyve even held the top speed record for many many years. Id say keeping up with a AWD Aventador with a 100bhp advantage with the RWD car on the drag strip is pretty god damned effecient.
So I take it that a GT3 RS will beat both on that track in the same conditions, if the performance improvement is at least in pare of what happened in previous generation, interesting
It would for sure. I mean the GT3 RS has 25 more hp and 3 times to downforce and on top of that less weight. It would sure make for a great video to say the least.
Enjoyed the impressions from the review. As expected, the GT3, is no match for the horsepower of the Speciale and 650s. I believe its more expected rival is the 458 Italia. It will be interesting to see how much more improved the GT3 RS model is over the GT3. IMO, the GT3 RS will still be streetable because at the end of the day, its still a 911.
I would Take the GT3 anyday over any of those simply for its outstanding sexy looks / its outstanding performance and its outstanding price. GT3 sound like a no brainer bargain to me. regarless of who's faster. it's all about driver skills and the excitement you get out of it. this is not Motor GP.
Those other two cars could never be a daily drive. I have 40,000 miles in 7 years on my GT3 - only repair so far radiator connection leak - covered under warranty.
Porsche are great cars at great price but come on, it will never have the flair, the sound and the thrill and heart of a Ferrari. Look at his smiles and excitement of driving a Ferrari. Don't get me wrong you can't really compare the overall qualities of both when one cost twice as much. But I don't understand why some people prefer Porsche (given a scenario money is no problem)
I got a Turbo S for 225k$ and I make 120k$ per year so that is why you see porsche cars on the streets because I can't afford a 300k$ car. Got the idea?
It's unbelievable how good the GT3 is! It takes care of most Supercars at the most important driving tasks. Going fast on a straight is not important in my opinion.
Great video thanks Autocar BUT for that ENTIRE 12 minutes the McLaren and Ferrari were conspicuously chained together by the GT3 holding them up. McLaren and/or Ferrari are scared shitless of actually letting anyone see their products compared to their direct competition. It's so obvious the 458 and 650s were not allowed to race each other on camera it's pathetic considering they are supposedly best in the world. They need to grow some balls and man up. I don't blame Autocar for this, they are not the ones with power and have to do what they are told.
I'd still take the 911. Sounds better than both of them and is less than 1.5 seconds slower on track. When on the road the 911 would be as fast or faster than both the Mclaren and the Ferrari. Not to mention WAY more comfortable.
May be more comfortable than the ferrari, but the mclaren is far more luxurious. The ride in the mac is, i quote, the best ride i have ever seen in a supercar.
Just got my licence so no sadly, what i said is just mainly from my personal love for the brand. My mind would probably after driving them, but this is an opinion as of NOW
GaryDoctor1 Hate seems a bit strong. Surely you must appreciate something about it. I would take the GT3 personally but I still love the other two for completely different reasons.
The problem Steve is an awsome driver, every car he drives he beats his collegues :D But i guess that the 458 is just a bit faster, and also think that the 911 has more soul then the 650S.
Porsche, there is no substitute. Shooting it out on even levels with cars costing so much more, and with a fraction of the practicality. The best engineered motor cars on earth.
One thing we learnt for sure: the McLaren is the least satisfying of these three cars. Even more so if you take into account the price. What I am waiting for is a real match P1 vs LaFerrari, under real and even conditions, with real numbers, not some bs "we destroyed the 918 Spyder's time on the Nordschleife, but sorry, we just can't tell how fast we were". Come on, someone make us a gift!
458 Gt3 Mclaren ugliest piece made yet. Don't tell me about price tag, If your buying a super car your last concern should be what kind of budget you have to play with. Either you can or can can not. Plus bettle comes to mind way too often when I look at any Porsche period
After driving the 991 GT3 yesterday, IMHO it is the top of the top. I have no adequate words to describe how astounding it is and how ruthless, savage, and insane-sounding the engine is, all the while being ultra-smooth. The noise it makes is so ridiculously exciting, I think I prefer it over the shouty Italians. Really! And that PDK and paddles on the GT3, WOW. I've been in some pretty special machinery, but never something as bulletproof in feel as this thing. 997 GT3 included. Oh man, guys, if you're lamenting the loss of the manual, please, just stop. Until you experience the insane PDK in this GT3, you cannot and should not think as such! Trust me. Hats off to the mega engineering. I think it stands alone in the marketplace. People just don't know ... it's the real masterpiece regardless of price. Just wow...is not adequate to say...what a machine.
also this is the main reason why I prefer motor trend's testing as far as track performance is concerned cause they have a real driver....not guys like Steve and Chris hariss(whose reviews I love btw) who just turn off the esc do some powerslides and think...oh yeahhh I'm a pro now let's set a lap time
jordanclarkson2010 Yeah get what you mean mate, but I just have something for the speciale. To be honest I would have to drive them both to see what they're like to me, such a hard choice though :D
The 458 is one amazing car. He says how exciting it is to drive and I love how in Forza for example it is also an very fun car to drive, which makes me happy that they are able to mimic real life driving of the cars so well..
man u should have turned the esc completely off on the mclaren.....motor trend's randy pobst lapped the 40 kilo heavier 650 spider almost 2 seconds faster than the 991 gt3.....but I guess ur not skilled enough to thread such a powerful car around a track with no assistance whatsoever
meh its not just that, most of these journalists despite showing the mask of objectivity are hindered by severe bias in most reviews. Look at chris harris and his love affair with porsche. Also as you said, Just because you enjoy cars a lot and can drive them relatively fast does not make you a proffessional driver. Proffessional drivers are paid to extract the most performance out of a car in a regular fashion and they get to the limit of their cars over hours and even days of practice. But no we are supposed to take the word of semi skilled amateur drivers who lap certain cars a couple of times and then blurt out x car is faster than y car. From reviews, porsches tend to be easier to drive close to their limit and therefore produces good times in the hands of amateur drivers.
please be fair and bring out the GT3 RS or even better the GT2 RS. it's guarranteed humilation to both overpriced mclaren and ferrari. Porsche for life!
+hdidane00 Don't get too excited. The tuned down version of 458(not speciale), with only 470bhp obliterated the 991GT3RS in WEC and other major series for years now. The real world of racing is different to that of videogame.
+Sam R wow ... chump get ur facts right Porsche won both lmp1 and lmgte pro category ..... Ferrari got obliterated....... Trying to change the reality won't work Porsche >>>>>>>> Ferrari in wec
Rah lfc Porsche Won the GTLM in 2015 in the last race only after Ferrari cocked up their QP and fucked their race strategy. Obliterate ?? lmfao Porsche won with less than 4 point difference. in 2014 and 2013, ferrari humiliated the Porsche 991s GT3. Get your facts straight. lmfao. Just wait for 488GTLM to destroy Porsche in 2016. lmao
The review is about great track cars being compared when the cost prices are much different! The build quality on the standard GTR is great, the interior is spot on(if you've ever been in one you'd agree) each engine is hand built and the looks....well that's personal preference! I personally think it looks the part! To say the GTR isn't a quality car is plain ignorance!
Porsche takes it as usual. Ferrari can build decent sportscars but they always lose when they match up against real sportscars. Mclaren brought us the 12C from nowhere, they dominated the sportscar market with their new 650S and the supercar P1. But Porsche has always been the choice for me, they contain what a real sportscar should. They are also affordable compared to Mclaren or Ferrari. This was the GT3 clubsport people, being down this much on power against the Ferrari and not least the Mclaren it really set amazing numbers. And costing "only" arround 100,000£ it is a bargain of a sportscar compared to the others! It is also the most technically advanced.
Gtfo with these biased comments. The Ferrari is clearly the best of these three and i'm glad it's more expensive, because the 'king' of the road should be more exclusive.
Your username already explains everything about this bullshit. Since when does Ferrari "always lose when they match up against real sportcars"? Just to be clear. Ferrari as a manufacturer is an icon. It's a sports car manufacturer, they have an extreme amount of experience in what they are doing. If you put away your Porsche-fanboyness for a second, even you do know that Ferrari is just as much of an icon as Porsche if not more. The difference between Porsche (German) and Ferrari (Italian) products is in their characters. Porsche 911, as the majority of other german cars, is made for perfection. It's made to be a car that behaves perfectly both on the road and on tracks. Ferrari 458, as the majority of other italian cars, is made to be exclusive. Even smaller, cheaper italian cars are like this. Just take an Alfa Romeo MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde and a Volkswagen Polo GTi. The MiTo has way more character, sounds better, while the Polo is just a little bit more reliable and predictable. Same stands here. The 458 Speciale is the optimised version of the 458 Italia, which is known to give its' driver a crazy driving experience. It has that loud V8 sound, that ability to drift, while still being a track weapon. The Porsche 911 GT3 on the other hand, can not be played with as much as the 458, but in return, it's more on the edge, more optimised. But it does not mean it is the better car. It only means that the Ferrari is made for a man who likes adventure and a car that has a soul, which makes every second of driving the car an unforgettable experience. This man wants to have as much fun on a track day as he can, and then go home, get dressed, take the car for a spin to the local bar and have a party, while the Porsche is made for a man who wants to be the fastest on track days, without any surprises, and then go home in his race car like it's a Mercedes saloon and drink the usual beer while watching the local football match.
HugoElders Instead of telling me to "gtfo" give me some proof. Ferrari is bullshit, they lose in a straight line against a Turbo S and gets eaten arround a track by the GT2 or GT3 RS with several hundred horsepower less. They also cost nearly twice as much as the Porsche. I know Ferrari, i have had a few rides in both F430, FF and 458 challange on track. It doesn't get much better, it's not only extremely fast but also a luxury/quailty item. But when you look at the compromises you realize it's not so fun owning one. Porsche is proper sportscar that you can own and drive on day to day, Ferrari is just overpriced, overrated and not really a very functional car. I mean when an oil service costs 3000$ something is wrong.
PorscheSweden 1. Sportscars should not be driven day to day imho. 2. Ferrari is about passion, adrenaline, art and fun instead of "being the idiotic fastest". 3. Exclusivity comes with a price.
HugoElders Sportscars should be driven on any ocasion they were designed for (not in snow, mud etc...), Ferrari is about speed and handling (fun and adrenaline comes along with these two.....), Similar exclusivity and performance comes from Porsche for half the price. Ferrari V12 cars are one of a kind in the car market but really for example the California, F430 or 612 scaglietti doesn't have the most impressive exclusivity or performace. And they cost an awful lot more for nothing. Ferrari has always been the top sportscar maker, but now in 2014 Porsche is far ahead of Ferrari. Soon with upcomming emission restrictions the glory of Ferrari will be an old memory.
I would have thought that the correct competitor for the 458 Speciale from the Porsche stable would be the forthcoming GT3 RS. A head to head battle between those two would be very very close I suspect... Hopefully we'll see a video when they release the RS !
Ferrari is bullshit, always modifying their cars for reviews and refusing to allow access to other cars when they can't control the outcome. You're paying for the brand. Ferrari is for those that care more about showing off than actually racing. The 650s and 911 Turbo S are faster than the 458, on a track or drag. The LaFerrari weights much more than claimed. Ferrari likes to play fast and lose with numbers.
SCARFACE older by what? one year, that's irrelevant. *ALL* cars have different technologies and power so that's irrelevant too. Just change the 650s for the 675 LT... that would be a fair comparison, The last track focused car of each brand.
Behd131 well the f70 and 918 are the two big rivals of the p1 and the p1 is track focused unlike the other two , yet on the track they perform more or less the same . So track focused is irrelevant and if you are gonna replace the 650s with 675LT , you should also replace the 458 with the f12 TDF which is the company's ACTUAL last track oriented car
see what ? mclaren losing...again?FYI , the 458 italia murdered the mc 12 , and so I think the 488 would beat 650 and don't even get me started with f12 tdf vs 675lt
I enjoyed this test, but I thought the hot v8 mid-engined Ferrari has always been put up against the GT3 RS of the time. By that I mean historically it was: Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale VS Porsche 911(996) GT3 RS Ferrari 430 Scuderia VS Porsche 911(997) GT3 RS I know the 991 GT3 RS is not out yet, so will there be a rematch when it is released?
McLaren desperately needs to fix the understeering, and the braking deficits. A bigger contact patch from the front tires would help, but it could probably also do with some suspension and weight distribution changes as well. Smaller front wheels and tires may look good/right, but equal size to rear, or in some cases even larger than rear, can and does work much better. One thing that McLaren could do that would make things a little more controllable is to engineer a pedal for neutral. As far as I know, no manufacturer has done this yet. When you are panicking and out of control, being able to disengage the transmission rapidly, in a way that doesn't require thinking, is an absolute must.
they also should have shuffled the order of these cars to show us how well/not so well they are able to catch up in different part of the track. the 650 could be blocking the 458 for catching up the gt3 and there wasnt much room for 458 to pass the 650 in order to stay in the most efficient line on the track.
Simple physics. 991 GT3 uses a larger turning radius to gain traction. Solution is: Rear wheel steering 458 Speciale, using a sharper turning (smaller turning radius) to gain more speed and a quicker maneuver via tight circane. Solution: Less aggressive stability control (SSC) and gearing strategy to gain more power on specific gear and a larger gear ratio from ie. 4-5 for less power to gain traction. Also I've to point out that the Speciale is a high power short 3,4,5 gear rear wheel drive car. When system allow more understeer, it'll transform to power oversteer like crazy. Actually, similar to BMW ///M5, all you can do is wait for traction. Unlike GTR, Quattro or 4 Matic, you've to wait longer coz those AWD have stability control that brakes 2 inner wheels instead of Ferrari, McLaren, etc.. rear inner only. 650S Pure thrust and traction. Solution: Boosted and tuned 3.8L TT V8 and an aggressive traction/stability control. That's why they are 3 totally different cars. Lap times really based on tracks.
It would be fun to get some team drivers in these and see how they fare. Mark Weber in the GT3, Button in the 650S and Alonso in the Speciale. Who am I kidding, No one would stand a chance against Alonso!
It's the difference at the very top point of the performance triangle that a car costing £200k is only 1.2 seconds faster than one costing £100k. It's the rule of diminishing returns. If I could choose just one car, I would have the Porsche any day as it will be a car that rewards me as a driver but also as an ownership prospect. You need to spend silly money on owning and running the other two and I doubt you would be able to drive them every day.
In all fairness the 650S is not a track focussed car whereas the other two are. There will be a track orientated 650S later down the line. That will be the car that should be competing against the 458S and the GT3.
I went on one of those single seater race car day's at Castle Combe, I highly recommend it, great staff and pure nutty driving instructors, and the single seaters look like they are Airfix models yet could probably give these supecars a run for their money on the handling front! I like the McLaren but yes, it's not quite enough to beat the Ferrari.
The noise the 458 makes is just heaven!
the sound of the Ferrari is just awesome.
No mclaren 650s is awsome
instablaster
It's amazing how the Speciale changes directions and looks so light on the track. It's almost like a F1 car and it doesn't have a bunch of gigantic outrageous aero parts.
Would be a lot faster round a track if it did.
Funny how in 2023 the 650s and 991.1 gt3 aero look subtle compared to what's out these days.
I've always considered the GT3 a sportscar, not a supercar (hence the price difference btween the Ferrari and Porsche).You get seating for 4 (sort of), decent boot, all the luxuries, supremely comfortable on the street and docile when you need it to be. Considering that it could keep up with this lot, the GT3 is a formidable weapon. The GT3 RS (and possible 4.0 liter) and the GT2/RS are going to be absolute monsters and will still somehow be cheaper than the Ferrari.
Gt3/2 911 models are pure 2 seaters my friend.
Neezer D In this you are right, I stand corrected. Thanks.
Neezer D With some googling, I did find that some people have been retro fitting backseats into GT3's and GT2's, pretty cool if you ask me. Especially when you have kids like me.
Christopher Griffin Oh definitely, can be done without a doubt. It's not super cheap and super easy to do, but yeah :)
You have clearly never been in one then. The ride on a Gt3 is seriously harsh, they are not good daily drivers
I drove a 458S on a track. BEST MOMENT OF MY LIFE
The 458 is my favourite car since the day it was released. I was quite afraid that it will not stand a chance against the Gallardo's successor or the 650S - but the Speciale seems to kill both, which makes me very happy.
The Porsche 911 always was precision and perfection itself, which is proven here as well - way less HP and slightly more weight, and still it keeps up with these two. Wonder what the outcome would be if it was the 911 Turbo or even the Turbo S featured here.
Worse probably. GT3 >>>>>>>>>>> turbo at everything except drag racing (and maybe wet weather performance).
Yeah, the Turbo wouldn't have stood a chance against the Speciale. The GT3 RS might have.
ewt415 000Haze Everything I heard about the new Turbo S is being extremely fast (2.8s to 100 kph from standing and 200 in less than 10 secs, what the fuck) in a straight line but also being very fast on track. Easily beats things like a Nismo Nissan GT-R which is not a slow car... well, I hope the 458 is even faster now.
XModHunterX In a straight line the Turbo S is definitely the faster 911 in production right now, but around a track, it still falls short of the GT3.
Let's not bother wondering what the outcome would have been if Porsche supplied a GT2 instead of a GT3... It always surprises me, but you get 10 or more clips featuring the GT3, for each and every GT2 clip...
Ferarri 458 speciale anyday anytime!!
I think one of the most astonishing things is just how fast and how capable the GT3 is with only a 3.8l naturally-aspirated six. Here it is up against two V8's - one 0.7l more capacity, the other with two snails on it, yet the GT3 is one of the fastest track-capable cars there is.
How many other atmo six-cylinder cars can hit 100km/h in the 3's, top 300km/h and remain a genuine all-day, all-weather car? Outstanding.
Why is the rear engine, rear wheel drive Porsche on wide Michelin PSS a genuine all-day, all-weather car and the other two are not?
458 Speciale, no doubt
95% of the performance for 50% of the price? I think I'd go with the GT3.
That 5% is the reason the 458 is considered a step above everything else in the motoring world
***** don't forget the S on there. the original 458 is still way more expensive and would get dumped by the gt3 in this exercise. tbh the speciale should be compared to the RS or even the GT2 RS, but neither of them are released yet.
***** step above? the ferrari needed 130hp more and 100kg less to beat a car with the engine behind the rear wheels by one second :D
technique, engineering and calibration clearly goes to porsche.
1.2 seconds slower than the 458 over a 90 second lap isn't 95% the performance! In real terms, you'd be almost lapped twice in the Porsche over any real race distance
IIXRATEDIIHiTMAN 5 percent or 1.3 percent, their point still remains.
ТHE REAL TEST WILL BE 458 SPECIALE VS GT3 RS VS 675LT!
+radost0514 488 GTB Scuderia/Speciale/CS vs GT2 RS vs 700LT (or something like that). That's what I want to see
+radost0514 Yeah lets see that!
Ferrari would never let that happen, their precious Speciale might actually lose...
i think the speciale will lose and its the oldest. the 2 cars are one step further compared to the speciale
radost0514 no if its 675 lt, then it should br 488 gtb
so basically if you had a gt3 you'd just send it to sharkwerks for a little engine work and you'd have the perfect track weapon
Fantastic video! It's really amazing how Ferrari manages to be one step ahead of everyone else with its cars. The GT3 is great but the Speciale is, well, so special!
well step ahead... 100kg less, 130hp more and the engine in the middle instead of behind the rear wheels and only one second faster? not so special to be honest.
CrimnlBT there literaly no straights on this particular track where the car can pull away and yet due to Ferrari latest incredible handling you can throw a 605bhp monster round corners and get a faster time compared to a foor wheel drive car that's quite something IMO
CrimnlBT It's 1.2 but keep in mind Castle Combe is a relatively short circuit and the engine at the back helps with traction out of the corners. Also, and most importantly, the GT3 is a great car. Very fierce competition. Finally, what makes a car special isn't its lap time. It's the whole package. The looks, the engine, the noise etc
Lorenzo Locchi 1. accelerating out of a corner is also a thing cars with more power profit from^^
2. it is not only more powerful but lighter as well.
3. the gt3 is rear wheel drive, not all wheel drive.
ianiva nothing to complain about :)
just to add: the engine in the back also causes massive deceleration... the 991 gt3 is the fastest breaking production car in the world. its braking is on a level over ariel atom, bac mono, koenigsegg one:1, huayra or p1 and on par with the zonda r (yes... with slicks on the zonda, hard to believe, but true)
the old 997 gt3rs 4.0 already managed to get from 300km/h to a full stop in 6.5 seconds with street tyres!
Lorenzo Locchi If you watched the video, you would be able to tell that there were obviously sections where straight line speed played at the Mclaren and Ferrari's advantage.
Imagine what a 991 gt2rs with around 650bhp would do.
kill the driver
I'm from the future and im here to tell you that the 991 gt2rs has 700 bhp
SicoSniper1912
Yep, and it will be competing with the 488 Pista instead of the 458 Speciale.
If all 3 of them were exactly same price I would take Ferrari just because of overall package (brilliant to drive and to look at) but GT3 would be close second. Now knowing the price... GT3 takes the first place by miles! I mean look at that price gap! Imagine all upgrades you could do to that car with spare 90,000£! :o Not sure I would want to upgrade it tho :D (maybe proper weight reduction only)
at this point why dont you just buy an rs
MrPorcoDio25 Well its not out yet :/
previous versions exist
MrPorcoDio25 Not as good I presume
true but nonetheless pretty damn good
Seeing those 3 supercars blasting around the track together put a huge smile on my face! god that Speciale sounds brutal!
The GT3 RS will absolutely embarrass the 650S and the 458S.
hardly a street car though
Jesse Dix That is totally a valid excuse. Good job, buddy.
***** Says the person who hasn't driven any Porsche. Journalists loath over the lineup.
In no way will it *embarrass* the 458S. The 458 was 1.2 seconds quicker on this fairly small track, and an RS will only have slight power increase and slight cornering increase over the normal GT3, which, at most, will pick up a full second on the track, putting it right near the 458S time. So, if anything, the GT3 RS will perform similarly to the 458S on track, nowhere near *embarrass* it.
Jesse Dix Yeah, like the Speciale is anymore of a street car
karlmalone11 RS's have always being noticeably faster than the GT3s. That along with how much better they drove is what made the RS models worth so much more than the GT3s in the used market.
Now everybody can see why Ferrari is nr1. Mclaren may be faster at some tracks but it's mostly thanks to it's turbos. GT3 is less expensive but so was GTR against Porsche turbo. It's not a valid point. And GT2 RS is simply turbo again. Anybody can obviously add some big turbos and gain speed. But try doing it with NA engines. Unfortunately since Mclaren only uses turbo engines and Porsche is going the same way, it will force Ferrari to do the same.
It's not fair we will lose these wonderful NA engines (it's not because of emissions) just because the competition can't compete on the same level and have to use turbo engines. Despite Ferrari having the most powerful NA engines in the world (for sports cars), all the competition has to do is keep adding bigger turbos. And despite turbo engines they are obviouly still just close.
I saw this a mile away. Turbocharged engines offer a little more flexibility. You have both great torque with nice hp numbers. At the end of the day such engine setup does seem the best decision. N/A engines are like manuals trans to some degree. Both are great but at the same very limited in a lot of ways. Hate to see them go but the new tech is pushing them out.
It doesn't feel like a technology step up regarding engines, but rather the other way. In this case some auto makers simply cheat their way to performance as they don't have the engineering knowledge to extract the high power levels others can from NA engines. So instead of forcing the cheaters to deliver, they are forcing the good ones to give up the good work. If you want the best experience NA engines are the best with sporty feel and with these kind of prices you should get it. After all, these are not race cars but high end sports cars with high prices, so one expects them to deliver. But that is my view of the matter.
Your points are very valid. When I say new tech ,I'm referring the parts or components that allow turbos to be more efficient. All is inline with you said, still really nothing new as far as the engines. Creating a great N/A engine does take time and resources.Opinions are very broad concerning turbos. Their performance numbers actually bridges the gap between race cars and sports cars. You have the best of both world's at a smaller price and lesser development time.
The pureness of a high revving N/A can't be denied. Even F1 caved in to all the politics involved with racing. The same is inline with the road cars.
I agree with you but i think turbocharged engines will only do good, of course we will going to miss the amazing sounds of a V8 NA made in Maranello but lower emissions, more torque, more power in the end will put a smile on our faces. Anyway Ferrari said that for their V12 flagship models will keep using a NA engine plus the eletric motors just like LaFerrari
Jeffrey Williams Lorenzo Locchi
I do agree with you about the advantages of turbo engines. More torque and hp and easier development. But I was watching a video from Drive about GT3 and the auto journalist were saying for the "a bit above average driver" (which is meaning auto journalists) it's getting impossible to even get near the performance level of such cars as today's GT3 or Speciale. Their capabilities are way higher than even good drivers. can handle You have to be almost a pro to get the most out of these cars. Drifting in corners (which most auto journalist seems like to do) is not as demanding as to actually driving these cars fast. They were saying in comparison a Cayman is much more rewarding as you can explore its potential much more.
Personally I think the hp race is not really a step in the right direction. It's rather ruining some of the good parts. These high end cars are made in small numbers and cost a lot to buy. I can understand cheaper performance or sports cars using turbo but not these jewels. And too much torque in a sports car is never a good thing. In a race car yes. A sports car has to be revy and not feel like a diesel car with a tone of torque. You want to change gear and drive it. With too much torque you will change gear much less as you can ride the torque. And these cars have already all the torque they need. But that is my personal opinion guys. Watch that Drive video if you get a chance watch?v=OmHpmGgIooU&list=UU5rBpVgv83gYPZ593XwQUsA
Do not forget that the ferrari was heavily modified before this review by the factory. Better tires, more power, revised gearbox, lighter just to name a few areas where it differs from customer cars.
Just shut up about that and enjoy the review.
Mitch Ruben
Why? Ferrari are known to do this kind of stuff.
Because every video with a ferrari review, someone says they modified it. Shut up no one gives a fuck, people just going on what Chris Harris said 4 years ago. And he has driven alot since then and enjoyed all.
Mitch Ruben
Doesn't matter if it was 4 years ago. That statement is still valid. Ferrari either pussy out from car battles or they either "win" them. They didn't give a LaFerrari for the 918 vs P1 race, but they were happy their hardcore track version here against 2 base spec road cars.
+12389h Mot only that but strictly speaking if the GT3 RS was in this review instead of the standard car, it would still probably much the ferrari
The Speciale is sensational in power and feel.
Mclaren 650s for the journey there and back to the track, 458 Speciale for the fast and fun lap, GT3 for the serious and short lap
1.2 Seconds faster than the Porsche over a 90 second lap is MASSIVE in race terms! Over a real race distance of approx 2hrs you'd be lapped twice by the Ferrari almost twice.
Except Porsche proved time and time again that their cars dominate in endurance races. Nothing ever really fades. Everything on the last lap works just as well as on the first.
Also in a real race, one car rarely has such a huge power advantage over another in its class
JAnx01 Yeah, right. Just like how both their cars in LMP1 failed to finish in this year's Le mans.
Tobi Ogunsanwo there's more to Porsche's racing history than this year's Le mans.
JAnx01 Obviously, but I expected much better from a team with the most Le man wins ever.
Audi is outperforming them in almost every endurance race this time around and that's without considering their LMP1 program.
Porsche fangirls are almost as obnoxious as GTR fangirls it seems. Sad.
oh you are ferrari fanbabygirl
By saying why a Porsche is great rather than blatantly worshipping it? Yeah, EXACTLY the same as GT-R fans.
No one is as obnoxious as Ferrari zealots.
Lol sad when you have to mention the gtr when it's not even in the video.. someone's desperate for attention
Autocar you really stepped it up with your videos lately! By far the best youtube channel! And honestly they're all 3 amazing machines let's get real, i'd go for looks,sound and speed so my choise would be the 458 Speciale
Turbo s vs gt3 please! :)
These three cars are absolutely incredible, but honestly I think I would take the 458 Speciale. I say this because I like how it looks, I LOVE the sound and it is the evolution of the 458 Italia (which is my favorite car of all time). 650s and 911 GT3 are both ridiculously good cars as well, no discredit to McLaren or Porsche.
Autocar is clearly blessed by Maranello. The fact they were able to run a comparison of the 458 Speciale with the McLaren 650S and Porsche 911 GT3 says volumes about how much they must be in Ferrari's good graces for the privilege of being able to do such a comparison. Every other publication gets their request denied, plain and simple.
Very good point, but i can't find the like button!
speciale sound smashes other two
Wow, Autocar with the heavy-hitter videos! Absolutely made my Friday with this! What's next? LaFerrari vs 918W vs P1 at Spa? :)
Not sure if the manufacturers screwed up with the tires on their respective cars as both the Porsche & the 458S are supposed to be running on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's while the 650S runs P Zero Corsas with its own bespoke compound.. Regardless, brilliant video thanks for posting.
My thoughts exactly on the next car line up and the tires not the same on the GT3. I'm stumped on why Porsche didn't put the Corsa on their best 991 car? I wonder if putting the Corsa would put the GT3 on par with the McLaren on this track? Better grip, better lap times.
925boosting Don't think a Corsa actually grips any harder than a Cup 2 does anyways, probably less but who knows (I'd love to see a comparison by TireRack between these two). Could see the difference coming down more to do with the linearity of the tire and how progressive it is to drive.
***** Because they don't need the excessive horsepower to win :) The new GT3RS has 500hp, so there's your answer.
Thanks so much for this treat! Glad we were able to add this onto the normal best handling
Gt3 is designed to compete with 458 italia not the speciale..... its 130 hp down for christ sake... GT3 RS will blow the speciale away in every way.
The GT3 was not designed to compete with the 458!! The Turbo is. The upcoming GT3 RS is more like a Speciale fighter... Like the old 997 GT3RS was to the F430 Scudaria. :)
But still close call
GT3 is naturally aspirated and so is Italia... 911 tubo is a GT....
Turbo is a GT ya, but the closes rival to the 458. It have been that sicne the old 996 Turbo came along with the 360 Modena IN 2000. The GT3 is a track car like the speciale. Thats why the upcoming GT3 RS is the closed rivals . The 991 GT3 closed rival might be the upcoming BMW M3 GT3 ( i THINK ITS CALLED GT3..) Now you know. :)
Also i own a 996 GT3, so im not talking shit. :)
The 996 GT3 rival at the time was the 360 Stradale, Honda NSX-R or the BMW M3 CSL
No it wont. A gt3 RS will only have slight increases in horsepower and cornering ability. Unless you meant GT2 RS. Which is completely different.
A serious engineering question. How can these lightweight track based supercars still weight as much as and old e46 m3 (1500kg)? Old steel monocoque with 5 seats Vs. carbon fibre shells, lighter wheels, lighter brakes, ligther suspension, lighter engines...WHERE THE HELL IS THE MASS COMING FROM?!
These porsches perform so dang good for the power
Please upload the onboard timed fast laps for each cars. I'm sure there's many people who would've liked to see the cars at their limit than just take your word for it.
That McLaren is the embodiment of the McLaren company these days. Ruthlessly efficient but, like Ron Dennis, a bit...boring. Make it sound better for starters.
Actually they are not especially efficient. McLaren has a lot to learn
egon olzen You serious? Theyve made 4 different models, and they have all been top 5 cars in their time, road or racing. Thats a better successrate than both Ferrari and Porsche, even if only looking at their better models. Theyve even held the top speed record for many many years.
Id say keeping up with a AWD Aventador with a 100bhp advantage with the RWD car on the drag strip is pretty god damned effecient.
McLaren was fined for stealing Ferrari technology LMFAO!
InZomnia365 Its only 50hp more in an aventador.
+1
So I take it that a GT3 RS will beat both on that track in the same conditions, if the performance improvement is at least in pare of what happened in previous generation, interesting
I doubt the RS will be 1.2 seconds quicker on this pretty short track than the normal GT3. Thats a good amount of time on this small of a track.
It would for sure. I mean the GT3 RS has 25 more hp and 3 times to downforce and on top of that less weight. It would sure make for a great video to say the least.
Enjoyed the impressions from the review. As expected, the GT3, is no match for the horsepower of the Speciale and 650s. I believe its more expected rival is the 458 Italia. It will be interesting to see how much more improved the GT3 RS model is over the GT3. IMO, the GT3 RS will still be streetable because at the end of the day, its still a 911.
Well nice video but i'm a bit disapointing i was expect a race a battle like best motoring does :(
I would Take the GT3 anyday over any of those simply for its outstanding sexy looks / its outstanding performance and its outstanding price. GT3 sound like a no brainer bargain to me. regarless of who's faster. it's all about driver skills and the excitement you get out of it. this is not Motor GP.
Those other two cars could never be a daily drive. I have 40,000 miles in 7 years on my GT3 - only repair so far radiator connection leak - covered under warranty.
Just ordered new GT3 RS yesterday and cant wait. enjoy your car bro and be safe.
Ferrari and Mclaren got sexy shape more than GT3
Porsche are great cars at great price but come on, it will never have the flair, the sound and the thrill and heart of a Ferrari. Look at his smiles and excitement of driving a Ferrari. Don't get me wrong you can't really compare the overall qualities of both when one cost twice as much. But I don't understand why some people prefer Porsche (given a scenario money is no problem)
I got a Turbo S for 225k$ and I make 120k$ per year so that is why you see porsche cars on the streets because I can't afford a 300k$ car. Got the idea?
It's unbelievable how good the GT3 is! It takes care of most Supercars at the most important driving tasks. Going fast on a straight is not important in my opinion.
The McLaren is nice and all, but the Ferrari and Porsche are arguably the two best cars in the world (barring the insane hypercars)
Great video thanks Autocar BUT for that ENTIRE 12 minutes the McLaren and Ferrari were conspicuously chained together by the GT3 holding them up. McLaren and/or Ferrari are scared shitless of actually letting anyone see their products compared to their direct competition. It's so obvious the 458 and 650s were not allowed to race each other on camera it's pathetic considering they are supposedly best in the world. They need to grow some balls and man up. I don't blame Autocar for this, they are not the ones with power and have to do what they are told.
The sound of that Ferrari though..
McLaren still has a lot to learn, but nice try. The worst thing about McLaren is the design, tho(or lack of design)
Excuse me, got to go buy some lottery tickets now.
A worthy upgrade to the already brilliant 458 Italia.
Ferrari really are at the top of their game right now.
I hope they improve in F1 too
They suck atm
this was the best video autocar has ever done
I'd still take the 911. Sounds better than both of them and is less than 1.5 seconds slower on track. When on the road the 911 would be as fast or faster than both the Mclaren and the Ferrari. Not to mention WAY more comfortable.
May be more comfortable than the ferrari, but the mclaren is far more luxurious. The ride in the mac is, i quote, the best ride i have ever seen in a supercar.
Hunter Folan +10, you certainly get your priorities right!
Excellent video comparison. Loved the editing and the camera angles. You guys at Auto Car are top notch.
Hate that mclaren. Gt3 and 458 all day.
I love the Mclaren
have you ever driven one?
Just got my licence so no sadly, what i said is just mainly from my personal love for the brand. My mind would probably after driving them, but this is an opinion as of NOW
maxjtj31 He has probably not driven all of them.
GaryDoctor1 Hate seems a bit strong. Surely you must appreciate something about it. I would take the GT3 personally but I still love the other two for completely different reasons.
What's that sitting on the dash of the Speciale at 7:01?
The problem Steve is an awsome driver, every car he drives he beats his collegues :D But i guess that the 458 is just a bit faster, and also think that the 911 has more soul then the 650S.
Lets not forget that a GT2 is coming that's closer in price and power to these cars.
Porsche, there is no substitute. Shooting it out on even levels with cars costing so much more, and with a fraction of the practicality. The best engineered motor cars on earth.
Gorilla Jones more weight and 175hp less then the McLaren, yet still almost as fast, that's amazing.
One thing we learnt for sure: the McLaren is the least satisfying of these three cars. Even more so if you take into account the price. What I am waiting for is a real match P1 vs LaFerrari, under real and even conditions, with real numbers, not some bs "we destroyed the 918 Spyder's time on the Nordschleife, but sorry, we just can't tell how fast we were". Come on, someone make us a gift!
458
Gt3
Mclaren ugliest piece made yet.
Don't tell me about price tag,
If your buying a super car your last concern should be what kind of budget you have to play with. Either you can or can can not.
Plus bettle comes to mind way too often when I look at any Porsche period
Why not bring the GT3 RS against the other two for a much fair comparison?
That Ferrari was just itching to be first in the pack... It literally wanted to pass at every second
After driving the 991 GT3 yesterday, IMHO it is the top of the top. I have no adequate words to describe how astounding it is and how ruthless, savage, and insane-sounding the engine is, all the while being ultra-smooth. The noise it makes is so ridiculously exciting, I think I prefer it over the shouty Italians. Really! And that PDK and paddles on the GT3, WOW. I've been in some pretty special machinery, but never something as bulletproof in feel as this thing. 997 GT3 included. Oh man, guys, if you're lamenting the loss of the manual, please, just stop. Until you experience the insane PDK in this GT3, you cannot and should not think as such! Trust me. Hats off to the mega engineering. I think it stands alone in the marketplace. People just don't know ... it's the real masterpiece regardless of price. Just wow...is not adequate to say...what a machine.
I wonder how much tuning Ferrari did to make the 458 perfect for this track. Oh right...
also this is the main reason why I prefer motor trend's testing as far as track performance is concerned cause they have a real driver....not guys like Steve and Chris hariss(whose reviews I love btw) who just turn off the esc do some powerslides and think...oh yeahhh I'm a pro now let's set a lap time
458 speciale ! :)
10:20 edge of green rumble strips -> using a drone to film eh? thats awesome
Tough choice against the GT3 and Speciale for me.
Yeah their just insanely good cars 😁
***** I'm leaning towards the Ferrari too haha
GT3 for me, just love it! 458 Speciale is about twice the price of a GT3 so in that sense you can't really compare them.
jordanclarkson2010 Yeah get what you mean mate, but I just have something for the speciale. To be honest I would have to drive them both to see what they're like to me, such a hard choice though :D
***** haha
The 458 is one amazing car. He says how exciting it is to drive and I love how in Forza for example it is also an very fun car to drive, which makes me happy that they are able to mimic real life driving of the cars so well..
So the GT3 RS should return to be king of the hill then?
It will. It definitely will :)
For some reasons this video remind me of Top Gear Hammond in the 911, Jeremy the 650S & May in the 458 Speciale.
man u should have turned the esc completely off on the mclaren.....motor trend's randy pobst lapped the 40 kilo heavier 650 spider almost 2 seconds faster than the 991 gt3.....but I guess ur not skilled enough to thread such a powerful car around a track with no assistance whatsoever
meh its not just that, most of these journalists despite showing the mask of objectivity are hindered by severe bias in most reviews. Look at chris harris and his love affair with porsche.
Also as you said, Just because you enjoy cars a lot and can drive them relatively fast does not make you a proffessional driver. Proffessional drivers are paid to extract the most performance out of a car in a regular fashion and they get to the limit of their cars over hours and even days of practice. But no we are supposed to take the word of semi skilled amateur drivers who lap certain cars a couple of times and then blurt out x car is faster than y car.
From reviews, porsches tend to be easier to drive close to their limit and therefore produces good times in the hands of amateur drivers.
Very accurate assessment of these cars. Though I haven't been in a Speciale, Its much like a normal 458, just better.
please be fair and bring out the GT3 RS or even better the GT2 RS. it's guarranteed humilation to both overpriced mclaren and ferrari. Porsche for life!
+hdidane00 Don't get too excited. The tuned down version of 458(not speciale), with only 470bhp obliterated the 991GT3RS in WEC and other major series for years now. The real world of racing is different to that of videogame.
+Sam R wow ... chump get ur facts right Porsche won both lmp1 and lmgte pro category ..... Ferrari got obliterated....... Trying to change the reality won't work Porsche >>>>>>>> Ferrari in wec
Rah lfc Porsche Won the GTLM in 2015 in the last race only after Ferrari cocked up their QP and fucked their race strategy. Obliterate ?? lmfao Porsche won with less than 4 point difference. in 2014 and 2013, ferrari humiliated the Porsche 991s GT3. Get your facts straight. lmfao. Just wait for 488GTLM to destroy Porsche in 2016. lmao
+hdidane00 The 650S was faster than the GT3RS when chris harris compared them.
+Leopard95 Yes, you are saying "chris harris" the man is a joke. Imagine he let porsche beat the dressed up mp4-12c, ehm ehm 650s!
GREAT REVIEW!!!
THANKS!!!
So where is the NISMO GTR?!.. the real bargain!!!
puhleeeeeeez kid.......... puhleeez
The review is about high quality cars.
The review is about great track cars being compared when the cost prices are much different! The build quality on the standard GTR is great, the interior is spot on(if you've ever been in one you'd agree) each engine is hand built and the looks....well that's personal preference! I personally think it looks the part!
To say the GTR isn't a quality car is plain ignorance!
Modelo Super It seems like you're wrong. If your statement was right, the GT-R would be in the video but it obviously isn't.
DimensiiioN the GTR is not in the video cause there nothing really new on the new models!.. and it will embarass the other cars
Nice catch up on the Best Drivers Car 2014 - Thank You Autocar ;D
Porsche takes it as usual. Ferrari can build decent sportscars but they always lose when they match up against real sportscars. Mclaren brought us the 12C from nowhere, they dominated the sportscar market with their new 650S and the supercar P1. But Porsche has always been the choice for me, they contain what a real sportscar should. They are also affordable compared to Mclaren or Ferrari. This was the GT3 clubsport people, being down this much on power against the Ferrari and not least the Mclaren it really set amazing numbers. And costing "only" arround 100,000£ it is a bargain of a sportscar compared to the others! It is also the most technically advanced.
Gtfo with these biased comments. The Ferrari is clearly the best of these three and i'm glad it's more expensive, because the 'king' of the road should be more exclusive.
Your username already explains everything about this bullshit. Since when does Ferrari "always lose when they match up against real sportcars"?
Just to be clear. Ferrari as a manufacturer is an icon. It's a sports car manufacturer, they have an extreme amount of experience in what they are doing. If you put away your Porsche-fanboyness for a second, even you do know that Ferrari is just as much of an icon as Porsche if not more.
The difference between Porsche (German) and Ferrari (Italian) products is in their characters. Porsche 911, as the majority of other german cars, is made for perfection. It's made to be a car that behaves perfectly both on the road and on tracks. Ferrari 458, as the majority of other italian cars, is made to be exclusive. Even smaller, cheaper italian cars are like this. Just take an Alfa Romeo MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde and a Volkswagen Polo GTi. The MiTo has way more character, sounds better, while the Polo is just a little bit more reliable and predictable. Same stands here. The 458 Speciale is the optimised version of the 458 Italia, which is known to give its' driver a crazy driving experience. It has that loud V8 sound, that ability to drift, while still being a track weapon. The Porsche 911 GT3 on the other hand, can not be played with as much as the 458, but in return, it's more on the edge, more optimised. But it does not mean it is the better car. It only means that the Ferrari is made for a man who likes adventure and a car that has a soul, which makes every second of driving the car an unforgettable experience. This man wants to have as much fun on a track day as he can, and then go home, get dressed, take the car for a spin to the local bar and have a party, while the Porsche is made for a man who wants to be the fastest on track days, without any surprises, and then go home in his race car like it's a Mercedes saloon and drink the usual beer while watching the local football match.
HugoElders Instead of telling me to "gtfo" give me some proof. Ferrari is bullshit, they lose in a straight line against a Turbo S and gets eaten arround a track by the GT2 or GT3 RS with several hundred horsepower less. They also cost nearly twice as much as the Porsche. I know Ferrari, i have had a few rides in both F430, FF and 458 challange on track. It doesn't get much better, it's not only extremely fast but also a luxury/quailty item. But when you look at the compromises you realize it's not so fun owning one. Porsche is proper sportscar that you can own and drive on day to day, Ferrari is just overpriced, overrated and not really a very functional car. I mean when an oil service costs 3000$ something is wrong.
PorscheSweden 1. Sportscars should not be driven day to day imho. 2. Ferrari is about passion, adrenaline, art and fun instead of "being the idiotic fastest". 3. Exclusivity comes with a price.
HugoElders Sportscars should be driven on any ocasion they were designed for (not in snow, mud etc...), Ferrari is about speed and handling (fun and adrenaline comes along with these two.....), Similar exclusivity and performance comes from Porsche for half the price. Ferrari V12 cars are one of a kind in the car market but really for example the California, F430 or 612 scaglietti doesn't have the most impressive exclusivity or performace. And they cost an awful lot more for nothing. Ferrari has always been the top sportscar maker, but now in 2014 Porsche is far ahead of Ferrari. Soon with upcomming emission restrictions the glory of Ferrari will be an old memory.
I would have thought that the correct competitor for the 458 Speciale from the Porsche stable would be the forthcoming GT3 RS. A head to head battle between those two would be very very close I suspect... Hopefully we'll see a video when they release the RS !
Ferrari is bullshit, always modifying their cars for reviews and refusing to allow access to other cars when they can't control the outcome. You're paying for the brand. Ferrari is for those that care more about showing off than actually racing. The 650s and 911 Turbo S are faster than the 458, on a track or drag.
The LaFerrari weights much more than claimed. Ferrari likes to play fast and lose with numbers.
So you're that much of a blind fanboy that refuses the truth huh? Internet these days i guess *facepalm*
Lorenzo Locchi
You've only displayed that you don't know what a fanboy is, nor truth. The irony is strong with this one.
truth
SilverArrow WilliamsMartini
I obviously know more than you.
Son37Lumiere You must be a fanboy yourself then.
Hmmm still waiting for the 991 gt2. it's going to be a animal. And the RS version will be insane considering the 997 gt2 rs had over 600hp
Ferrari is always on top ;)
Good job italians!!!
Choice depends on the application really.
458s - Track
650s - Daily driver
GT3 - winner because of the price and can do both not much worse.
the 650s was the only car not track focused... and almost win
well the 458 speciale is older and less powerful and yet it won ,
SCARFACE older by what? one year, that's irrelevant. *ALL* cars have different technologies and power so that's irrelevant too. Just change the 650s for the 675 LT... that would be a fair comparison, The last track focused car of each brand.
Behd131 well the f70 and 918 are the two big rivals of the p1 and the p1 is track focused unlike the other two , yet on the track they perform more or less the same . So track focused is irrelevant and if you are gonna replace the 650s with 675LT , you should also replace the 458 with the f12 TDF which is the company's ACTUAL last track oriented car
Irrelevant?maybe for you...put the 650s against the 488 and you will see...btw Mclaren lost with speciale...so
see what ? mclaren losing...again?FYI , the 458 italia murdered the mc 12 , and so I think the 488 would beat 650 and don't even get me started with f12 tdf vs 675lt
God... this job.... Nice work guys, really
Ferrari is nice, pretty and makes such a nice sound... But that porsche Thou.. MmmMMmM,
I enjoyed this test, but I thought the hot v8 mid-engined Ferrari has always been put up against the GT3 RS of the time. By that I mean historically it was:
Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale VS Porsche 911(996) GT3 RS
Ferrari 430 Scuderia VS Porsche 911(997) GT3 RS
I know the 991 GT3 RS is not out yet, so will there be a rematch when it is released?
McLaren desperately needs to fix the understeering, and the braking deficits. A bigger contact patch from the front tires would help, but it could probably also do with some suspension and weight distribution changes as well. Smaller front wheels and tires may look good/right, but equal size to rear, or in some cases even larger than rear, can and does work much better. One thing that McLaren could do that would make things a little more controllable is to engineer a pedal for neutral. As far as I know, no manufacturer has done this yet. When you are panicking and out of control, being able to disengage the transmission rapidly, in a way that doesn't require thinking, is an absolute must.
I'm getting my gt3 in a couple weeks. Can't wait to get it out on the track!
Any one noticed the hilarious laugh of that guy?
Steve, you're one of the best in the industry! Fantastic comparison!
they also should have shuffled the order of these cars to show us how well/not so well they are able to catch up in different part of the track. the 650 could be blocking the 458 for catching up the gt3 and there wasnt much room for 458 to pass the 650 in order to stay in the most efficient line on the track.
You're awesome Autocar :). Best car reviewer on RUclips currently.
Simple physics.
991 GT3 uses a larger turning radius to gain traction. Solution is: Rear wheel steering
458 Speciale, using a sharper turning (smaller turning radius) to gain more speed and a quicker maneuver via tight circane. Solution: Less aggressive stability control (SSC) and gearing strategy to gain more power on specific gear and a larger gear ratio from ie. 4-5 for less power to gain traction. Also I've to point out that the Speciale is a high power short 3,4,5 gear rear wheel drive car. When system allow more understeer, it'll transform to power oversteer like crazy. Actually, similar to BMW ///M5, all you can do is wait for traction. Unlike GTR, Quattro or 4 Matic, you've to wait longer coz those AWD have stability control that brakes 2 inner wheels instead of Ferrari, McLaren, etc.. rear inner only.
650S Pure thrust and traction. Solution: Boosted and tuned 3.8L TT V8 and an aggressive traction/stability control.
That's why they are 3 totally different cars. Lap times really based on tracks.
Yes. Totally true.
It would be fun to get some team drivers in these and see how they fare. Mark Weber in the GT3, Button in the 650S and Alonso in the Speciale. Who am I kidding, No one would stand a chance against Alonso!
It's the difference at the very top point of the performance triangle that a car costing £200k is only 1.2 seconds faster than one costing £100k. It's the rule of diminishing returns. If I could choose just one car, I would have the Porsche any day as it will be a car that rewards me as a driver but also as an ownership prospect. You need to spend silly money on owning and running the other two and I doubt you would be able to drive them every day.
it funny how the zo6 corvette is faster than all 3 of them and cost a fraction less
agreed
In all fairness the 650S is not a track focussed car whereas the other two are. There will be a track orientated 650S later down the line. That will be the car that should be competing against the 458S and the GT3.
Between gt3 and 458s the 650s is like a electric car
I went on one of those single seater race car day's at Castle Combe, I highly recommend it, great staff and pure nutty driving instructors, and the single seaters look like they are Airfix models yet could probably give these supecars a run for their money on the handling front! I like the McLaren but yes, it's not quite enough to beat the Ferrari.
Wow, great Autocar! All are special version. Only the GT3 is normal. Very fair
There's something awesome about cars racing close together in unison
Great video! Can we also have footage of each car's quick lap too?