Mr. Freeze and Why We Love Sympathetic Villains | Lessons Animation Taught Us
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Inspired by @filmjoy's "Lessons Animation Taught Us" series, I decided to make my own entry. I wanted to take a closer look at one of my favorite animated characters from my childhood: Mr. Freeze from Batman The animated Series.
Time Codes:
0:00 Intro
2:22 Part 1: Origins
3:37 Part 2: Sympathy
8:21 Part 3: Empathy
13:21 Part 4: Redemption
18:10 Part 5: Lessons Mr. Freeze Taught Us
21:52 Part 6: Conclusion
Mikey's Video:
• Lessons Animation Taug...
Lessons Animation Taught Us Playlist:
• Lessons Animation Taug...
Patreon: / selectscreen
Subscribe: / selectscreen
Twitter: / drew_type
#batman #animation #LATU #videoessay 
Кино
Due to the frequent comments I keep getting about Mr. Freeze and his episode of Batman Beyond, I guess I need to address that. Originally when outlining this video, I had planned on covering both that episode, entitled “Meltdown” and his last appearance in BTAS entitled “Cold Comfort”. I ended up not including them because 1) the video was already getting very long, and 2) the three appearances I mentioned in the video already made a pretty natural trilogy in my opinion. (Plus, Cold Comfort is just not a very good episode either).
Because it kept coming up, I actually went back and rewatched Meltdown again, and honestly found it a bit messy and redundant, at least for the purposes of the video I made. In a lot of ways it feels like a compressed 20 minute “greatest hits” version of his character arc from BTAS. We get to see a cured Victor who appears to show honest contrition for his past crimes, a vision of what he could’ve been were he to ever move past his grief surrounding Nora, and then we see him pulled back in to being motivated by revenge, once again donning the role of uneasy villain.
To me, he ends Meltdown in the same place as a character as he ends SubZero, with the only difference being the, presumed, finality of Meltdown with the character’s death as apposed to his uncertain fate at the end of the movie. (Although let’s also be honest, this is a comic property, the only thing that really belies his death is the fact that he never shows up in the series again)
While I do think there is more to explore at the edges, I also think there just isn’t a whole lot new there in Meltdown from a character perspective, and the little bits of new characterization just aren’t given the time to breathe. After all, as is common for Freeze, he isn’t even the primary antagonist of the episode, with a significant amount of the runtime having nothing to do with him. (In fact he doesn’t even appear until the 5 minute mark, ¼ of the way through the episode.)
Ultimately, the most interesting thing I find about Meltdown is how it is a good example of what happened to his character writ-large from here on out. (Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert on the matter, and I’m speaking mostly about his appearances in other animated shows and in video games. I wouldn’t be surprised if his character faired better in the comics). Mr. Freeze as a character was never really able to escape the shadow of Heart of Ice. From here on out he was either stuck reliving the same arc from his BTAS series run, or turned back into a one-note cartoony villain again, such as he was in Cold Comfort. Honestly, when you take a broader, metatextual, look at the character, that is really the final tragedy to him. That he appears to be stuck in this never ending loop of vengeance, remorse, and then vengeance again.
Based on the comments I’ve gotten, I assume this might be a bit of an unpopular opinion, but still it felt like a necessary addendum to the video based on how many people asked about my opinion on Meltdown. Feel free to continue posting comments, or reply to this particular comment with your disagreements should you have them, although I can’t promise I’ll always be able to respond. I’m of course happy people enjoyed the video enough to want to leave a comment, I do also need to try and prioritize actually making new videos as well. (Rewatching the episode and writing this comment has easily eaten up a few hours.) Regardless, as always thank you for watching, thank you for commenting, and hopefully I’ll see you again in video form.
-Drew from Select Screen
Funny, as I think "Heart of Ice", "Deep Freeze" and "Cold Comfort" actually make a good trilogy. They are interesting, b/c Fries' motivation in each story is actually very different each time - which I don't think I saw in any other character from the show. In "Heart of Ice", his motivation is vengeance. We're sympathetic to his plight, but Fries is purely out to punish those he believes wronged him. In "Deep Freeze", once Victor finds out Nora is alive, his motivation is protection. He commits atrocities, but b/c it's done out of a monomaniacal focus to protect Nora, b/c it is motivated by love, we're still sympathetic. In "Cold Comfort" (which I think is a much better episode than you give it credit for), Victor's motivation is pure nihilism. Faced with an eternity alone in a crippled body, he's completely broken and reached the end of his arc. Now he *is* a one note villain of sorts, but not the mustache twirling, evil for the sake of evil villain. He wants to project his own existential despair on the world around him. He gives my favorite Freeze line in this episode. When he breaks into the museum, the paleontologist, projecting that there must be some rational cause for the attack, tells Victor that no museum in the world will pay for stolen fossils - to which Victor replies "I have not come to steal bones doctor. I have come to steal hope..."
My guy you did such a good job on this I am truly impressed
Excuse me? He wasn't a one-note cartoony villain again in Cold Comfort, his heart fell to despair when his wife remarried and his body became unstable.
Joker mutating fish just so he can try to patent them and then take it out on the innocent patent clerk when he's told he can't is one-note cartoonish villainy. Scarecrow using a special variant of his fear toxin that's only activated by a surge of adrenaline to sabotage/rig spots games so he can win the bets with bigger payoffs to pay for his expensive chemicals is one-note cartoonish villainy. Mr. Freeze falling to nihilism and destroying things of great value for no reason just because he can and he wants to share his pain is NOT cartoonish and one-note, it's tragic but not inconsistent turn to his arc of living a curse with what the accident did to his body and no longer having his one tie to humanity.
And then with Meltdown, that hope of having a new life really meant something, he wanted to make amends for all the pain he's caused, of course it's going to be devastating when it slips through his fingers. The fact that the successor to his greatest foe was the only one who even remotely cared about his fate, and that his DNA was simply too irreversibly damaged for him to have any worthwhile future even without back-stabbing people was just too much for him, he WANTED to die. How could he not after everything his life had been?
That's kind of a theme with Batman's rogues gallery, they're irredeemable usually by no fault of their own. Penguin wants to be a productive member of society, but people are just to crappy to him to really give him a chance. Ventriloquist is a psychological prisoner of an externally projected split personality, any attempt he makes to reform his life is immediately undone upon reintroduction of his worse half. Mr. Freeze can never again experience worldly pleasures and to live an immortal life while the world around him ages and dies normally is not a fate he (or most anyone else) can be content with.
For me, the ultimate theme of "Meltdown" can be summarized in one simple statement:
The Universe Hates Victor Fries on a Visceral, Personal Level and Isn't Done Dicking Him Over Yet.
Every appearence of Mr.Freeze moved him forward as a person into different stages of motivation. His last two appearances were important to his storyarch.
Freeze was a thesis statement for something Joker has always believed "all it take is one bad day to turn the right man the wrong way" Freeze wouldn't be a villain if his wife wasn't sick, if he hadn't been cursed by his boss. In one day everything he cared for was taken and he had nothing left to lose.
You want a piece of irony to that?
Mark Hamill's first role on BTAS was as Ferris Boyle. Mr. Freeze's boss that started it all.
Damn
Copper Hamster holy shit that’s actually cool
@@hector3810 Da Comrade, it is.
"All it takes is a little push."
“I failed you. I wish there was another way to say it. I cannot. I just beg you can forgive me, and that somewhere a warm hand waits for mine.”
So great!
It brings to me tears anytime I hear that emotional quote. He was just a everyday guy/incredible scientist who only cared for his wife and only wanted true justice to those responsible for his wife's death. The question of the moment is who wouldn't go out of their way for true justice for someone's loved ones. We're all Mr. Freeze.
sipioc I didn't really understand that quote till my mother died.
@@derrickmcadoo3804 can't really associate him with being emo cause even if we don't think it could happen to certain people or group, anyone who experiences something that in mr freezes case losing the one and in all his only love none less how he lost her and was basically his other half or even his lifeline in a way and when she was gone then part of him was gone as well for instance in how trammatizing it would be for him he not only lost basically someone who was basically part of him but most likely in that moment lost that love in anything else but her and with how it had affected him and what lengths to save her and how long he did so is how honestly any of us would do if that means u can have the one thing or someone who truly is worth it back an in mr freezes case his only true love who kept him going and would do anything and was capable of somehow figuring out how to get her back no matter how long it took and no matter what if we were him in his place would do the same cause ur not truly alive if apart of u is empty cause that's all it'll ever be
I wonder if bruce aid and invest on mr freeze. Maybe freeze will be the best alliance batman ever have
@@danurkresnamurti3598 It happened. Bruce tells Mr. Freeze in TNBA that he and his company had involvement in funding Nora's treatment and recovery, and offers the same to Victor himself. He refused because, in his mind, it was too late for him because he was reduced to a head on spider-like legs and a robotic suit by that point in the series.
You are correct that Nora is not a real person in this story. She is a symbol. She symbolizes everything good, pure, and warm in Mr. Freeze's life. Her symbolism works better when the audience is allowed to project the traits they most associate with those qualities on her. Sometimes you say more with silence.
I get that you wanted to nod toward the woman in the fridge trope but I think there is plenty of context in Batman to show that not all women are props. Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy are perfect examples of deep characters that are more than just plot devices.
Not to mention characters like Barbara Gordon and Selena Kyle, plus (if we count the other DCAU shows) Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, Amanda Waller, Ace, etc.
Would that be more of an honor in today's society, yet is cast as something to be disgusted at.
Is it disgusting to give yourself wholly to something? To be that person in one's life?
Were that I were a Nora in someone's life...
Huzzah to this!
Shut up, bigot.
No one is "irredeemable." But some people choose not to be redeemed.
@ItoMadWorld You're certainly entitled to your own opinion. But respecting someone who does evil because it makes them more "humane". I think tells us less about how to write an anti-villain and more that your perspective of humanity is wrong (at least in my opinion). I believe that people can change. That people can be persuaded by the selfless benefits of charity and cooperation.
...? You just made a circular statement. So there are irredeemable people in fiction and non-fiction.
Percival917 speaking of "redeeming" someone is probably the apex of self-righteousness. What it usually means is "I know what right is, you don't. Do as I say, or else".
@@jehovasabettor9080 I have reasoned that the god of Marvel is incompetent for allowing so many supernatural entities to run amok, and the god of DC is outright evil for getting nasty whenever someone derails "his plan" (there never was one).
"Oh ,you screaming children are all the same thinking you're unforgivable . well here's a shock,i forgive you!"
-the doctor
Doctor who,zygon speech.
Mr Freeze is a good person who was screwed over.
ABSOLUTELY. A SAD FACT THAT HE WOULDN'T HAVE BECOME A MORALLY "GREY AREA" TYPE, IF HE HADN'T BEEN PUSHED THERE.
One bad day
@@ttthttpd I watched a video explaining that Alan Moore does not want us to adopt Jokers theory. The point of The Killing Joke is that the joker is wrong because Gordon did not become insane. The Joker went mad because he was weak. So was Victor Fries.
@@bunceman4613 but Joker can feel things and has no real wife, your example isn't exactly right in context.
@@frank-2martialoffrankoslav151 Well he did have a wife.
for me, that chicken soup joke was the pinnacle of comedy when i was a kid
Lost in a Paradox i thought it was a pretty good line.
its not only funny, but also has layers to it - it makes sense that hot liquid would make cold glass shatter, but its also soup from Bruces father figure given out of familial affection and concern - specifically for Bruce, not Batman. Unlike Freeze, Batman didnt abandon feelings after his tragedy, and therefore still has people who love and care about him.
@@KOTEBANAROT : nuance... He did lost feeling. But, learned them back whit the help of Albert.
It’s still the pinnacle of comedy. Objectively.
@@KOTEBANAROT bruh its a joke about chicken soup fighting cold, you looking way too deep into it
@@JL-ot1kg obviously you haven't studied the intricacies of chicken soup
The way that Fries' voice changes as the chemicals take effect while he calls out to his wife, "Nora... Nora..." Damn.
It would move me to tears if I still had tears to shed.
"Think about it, Batman. To never again walk on a summer's day with a hot
wind in your face and a warm hand to hold. Oh yes....I'd kill for that."
"Nora's capsule to be broken" I gasped in genuine horror at those words.
…and I can't help but feel I may not be the only one who did.
Garrett Hochmuth oh gosh I thought I was the only one 😂
I started my love of Batman with that film, but I'd only remembered the plot, and forgotten. I gasped, too!
That was a heart wrenching moment to watch
Trust me you are not
afraid and anger . . dangerous combination ...
Nora being a plot device is "problematic" but not Batmans or Robins Entire Family?
The fact that Nora doesnt have a "character" is the entire point she is suppose to represent a loved one someone who the audience can fill in and make Mr freezes actions more personal and understandable. she could be anyone and by giving her a "character" it would just not make sense and weaken the message.
This. I understand why people are sensitive about these sorts of topics, but there's no need to assume ill-intent where none need exist.
Amen, brother.
Yeah, Bruce's parents aren't very deep characters. They exist to be good and to be a motivator for Bruce, not for much else. I don't see how that's better than Nora being unattainable, picturesque beauty.
@@MasteringJohn
"there's no need to assume ill-intent where none need exist."
B-but I want to scream and yell at evil racists and misogynists on twitter! I want people to know how good of a person I am! How am I supposed to do that if I give people the benefit of the doubt?!
I agree leaving these things as blank slates makes it more capable for an individual to mold them however they want. It more shows subjective value of the "device" rather than the object level and value of the character.
There was no mention about how Michael Ansara's voice work as Mr. Freeze added so much to the character portrayed on-screen. He was perfectly chosen for that part. R.I.P. Michael Ansara 1922-2013!
Thanks - you ABSOLUTELY said it for me. Ansara was BRILLIANT in the role. RIP, indeed.
A lot of incredible VA for Batman characters are no longer here today, and it's genuinely sad.
"if you crossed andrew ryan with walt disney" they are the same person
I dead ass thought the exact same fucking thing!
@@DomR1997 yeah I too was like "sooo... Walt Disney then"
Mr. Freeze was always the "Coolest" Villain.
*hands your coat*
I neither will condemn or condone this sentence you wrote. 😐
While also getting smacked by soup
Wow dude that joke was just the icing on the cake 😀
He's the most chilling villain
Freeze's depiction in Arkham Knight was damn near heartbreaking
I think there are times in everyone's life where they have to force themselves to be somebody they're not, for good or ill, and that's why he's so relatable.
In the end, Freeze doesn't WANT to be a villain, he just feels he has to be one in order to get what he wants. But no matter how hard he tries, no matter how many people he hurts or how much he tries to bury his emotions, at his core he has always wanted to go back to being Dr. Victor Fries, a good man who simply wanted to live peacefully with his wife. And he'd give anything to be that man again.
I’ve always liked tragic villains more than pure evil or generic villains. They went through a horrible tragedy and suffered so much from someone or something. Some even had a family they cared for until something horrible happened to them. Even those who committed crimes that crossed the moral event horizon they do it because of their suffering or a way of revenge. I even side with the tragic villain sometimes. Mr freeze is a prime example of these villains I like. Some of these villains were hateful until a backstory is revealed and I feel nothing but sympathy for them :’(
What happens when tragic villans are generic
Another tragic villian was Pain, Madara, and Obito from Naruto's series.
*nods* agreed- whereas Villans like the Joker actually tend to break my immersion- its literally inconceivable he wasn't given the chair/transferred to a supermax with ACTUAL security by the time of his 16th killing spree
Gantradies _ the killing joke gives joker a symphatic view
@@AmonsRealm the issue is, anything the joker says or claims about his past is suspect- he's spouted more origin stories (sympathetic or otherwise) then krypton has pieces by this point- and wasn't the entire point of TKJ that he was WRONG/full of crap?
Dismissing redemption as childish because of current world politics is, ironically, the most childish part of this musing.
This was a perfect way to summarize the video's last quarter. Thanks!
I agree, there is nothing wrong with dreaming the dreams of talking things out and working together to accomplish certain goals is foolish. It's not, the problem with the world today is that people don't want to talk for real. Social justice warriors are scaring people to talk and explore what they think. This intern leads to isolation and not living in reality. If anything a lot of 90's shows like BTAS was on point in their lessons.
If only I could like a comment more than once.
@@Dr.Beetlejuice110 well i wouldn't blame it all on SJWs the right does it's own fair share of fear mongering to get what they want.
@@pforgottonsoul If you have examples of that claim, I would love to hear them.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean about Nora being a plot device as a bad thing. Plenty of characters in fiction serve simply as blank names who's impact on the world around them is all the "characterization" they need. Blank slate characters are often silent if they're even put in front of the reader/audience at all. This doesn't dehumanize them. Quite the opposite. The mind impulsively fills in information where none exists for the sake of problem solving. When presented with a blank slate character we unknowingly rationalize that character into existence based on our perception of their impact on their environment.
Nora is to the audience what Batman is to Gotham. It's not that she COULD be ANYONE. She IS a very real, very specific person. She's the presence in your life that keeps you human; wether that's a personification or an actual person. The human mind is ultimately a fragile thing. In Joker's words, Nora is what we have before "one really bad day". Also in his words, her frozen body is "a cruel memory". Nora isn't a depiction of a historical figure (living or otherwise) so using her as a plot device isn't dehumanizing to her. In a way, she's more human than anyone else in the lore because the writers didn't create her. We, the audience, see our very humanity reflected in her icy tomb. She's the best... and the worst... in all of us.
I think he's referring to the fact that it's a particularly literal example of the "woman in the fridge" trope, where a male character is motivated by a bad thing happening to a woman he cares about. People criticize it for the fact that it objectifies and removes the agency of the woman character.
I think part of the reason that he misunderstands Mr. Freeze's and Nora's relationship and characters is that he probably doesn't have just one thing keeping him human. Some people have many strong emotional bonds that have kept them solidly human throughout their whole lives. Other people have had only a few or even no meaningful connections to keep them feeling human and thus can understand Mr. Freeze and Nora more accurately. When you're that close to falling over the edge, you can't help but think about what it is that would push you over it and what the consequences would be. And it's those people that really find meaning in Mr. Freeze and Nora's story.
@@LynetteTheMadScientist Yeah it's probably hasty to call the show out on that point in this case. The criticism is valid but that's no reason to ban the trope altogether. On the one hand it is good to keep it in mind when writing a story like this, but on the other hand bending over backwards to avoid doing it in a story that is clearly suited to it just because you don't want to seem un-PC is just silly.
Torus2112 Not that I’m directing this at you, but I’ve never liked that concept. The “women in refrigerators” thing. I understand the argument behind it, but I disagree on the position.
Death and loss are common things in stories, and male and female characters alike have lost their lives for the sake of pushing the protagonist forward in the history of storytelling. The oldest known story, the Epic of Gilgamesh, saw Gilgamesh’s best friend, Enkidu (who was male) murdered by the gods of Babylon to punish Gilgamesh. So to simply say that this happens to women means that it’s a bad trope is frankly insulting.
Again, I’m not throwing this at you, or the guy who made this video for that matter, but a better way to approach this argument would be to ask “is this example done well or not?” Because there are good ways and bad ways to handle every cliche and story trope, and simply looking at the victim’s gender isn’t the correct methodology.
@@Adorni Adorni You say you're not addressing anyone here but then... who are you addressing? I get that you're trying to be non-confrontational but it really sounds like you didn't read any of the comments on this topic so far.
Good characters: Personified forces of good
Bad characters: Personified forces of evil
Morally grey, nuanced characters: People like us
rapists, murderers etc.
@@alfa01spotivo Rapists and murderers are actually quite evil, they are not like you and me, they have mental problems that make them feel pleasure in pain and suffering, they are the closest to monster and true evil that we can find in reality.
@@williamwolfstein6170 agreed
There seems to be this misconception that 'dark and gritty' means no one can have a sense of humor. Quite the opposite. It makes the characters all the more real and relatable for the darker aspects to contrast to. Rather than everyone moping about brooding and scowling like teenagers trying ot be kewl like in the Snyder DC movies. That's not dark and gritty, just dull.
IKR? Dark Humor like Judge Dredd was made for the setting.
This is exactly why I prefer the BTAS Batman over the TNBA counterpart. The latter was too grim and emotionally distant
I also like Clayface a lot as a sympathetic character from this series, and I feel he’s super underrated. A man who’s lost his ability to work and becomes a slave to addiction is pretty realistic, and then also comes his loss of identity and the insanity that ensues after losing his physical form. He’s super tragic and I feel in mudslide especially Batman’s kind of in the wrong there, cause he doesn’t allow Clayface to save himself, and causes his death.
Yeah, Clayface has been brought up frequently in the comments, and I would agree. After Freeze, he is the next sympathetic villain that comes to mind. But honestly, TAS is just chock full of great villains., enough that someone could probably make an entire video series over just them. Thanks for watching.
@@SelectScreen I find Harvey Dent a great deal more sympathetic than Hagen, but they're both terrific villains. Heck, even the Penguin gets some great sympathetic treatment in 'Birds of a Feather'. And who can fall to feel SOMETHING for Harley in 'Mad Love', no matter how unrelatably crazy she is? TAS was an absolute MASTERPIECE.
I won't lie, I'm a grown man, I have cried and still do for Victor Freeze and his love for Nora. It may be the thing that fuels something darker within him. But like the character of Mad Max, both of which I felt were characters whose only real anchor to sanity were the women they loved, Max on the one hand chose a very similar path. All that was needed was a "Batman" type character in the Mad Max world to give the audience a third party perspective and Max could have easily been labled a madman (No pun intended) the same as Mr Freeze. As a matter of fact, I never compared the two characters until now, and now that I have, I can't really see that much of a difference.
The Lazara storyline in the comics only made it worse... And what Freeze became after that arc.
didnt know mad max had a woman he loved , it never appeared
@@BitmapJack You do know there was an original 1979 movie called Mad Max that the premise was he went crazy after his wife and son got run over and murdered? If not, go check it out. Its worth it.
@@gutz1981 the first an oddly paced film with extremely little dialogue but the end was brutal in the best way... well second that's history
I didn't even know his iconic origin only started in Batman: TAS. Its amazing what that show did for Batman overall.
nora is literally in cryostasis, no shit she lacks agency.
she's not some helpless dolt locked up in a tower somewhere by a mustache-twirling ne'er-do-well.
she's someone who _agreed_ to be put into cryostasis for an indefinite amount of time. show me any other damsel in distress that both:
A) _chose_ to let go of their agency
B) is legitimately _completely_ incapacitated (rather than unwilling to act/inept)
Outstanding video. The redeemable villain, or the one who crosses back and forth over the threshold of villainy, is a favorite literary trope of mine, too. In real life, I think the idea of a threshold is really useful: if it seems impossible to ever change people's minds, it's because there's a long continuum between your position and theirs, and any attempt to change their mind will only, at best, shift them a few tiny ticks in your direction. Eventually, you (or someone else) may bring them across the threshold, but that's usually the product of lots of patient work, not one brilliant argument.
I think one of the reasons we love sympathetic villains is because they're far more relatable. When we can empathize with a villain's motive, really understand why they do the things they do, and it's something we can feel sadness for, it forces us to ask a question- would the same circumstances drive us to the same extremes? If our most treasured loved one in the world was frozen in time, fated to die if ever released, how far would we go to save them? A lot of people would immediately say "no" but it's a whole different story when those circumstances become real. That's why we love sympathetic villains- it's far easier to see ourselves in them, making them far more engaging and interesting.
Michael Ansara was amazing as Freeze RIP.
What you learned was to think critically and try to understand the other person's motivation and perspective. You still may not agree, but it is amazing how much common ground you find when you try.
Great thoughts.
DC needs to have Victor Freeze on the Big Screen again because I really feel like he is an important character that Fans can connect with on an emotional and human level.
Despite being an anti-hero/anti-villain (of which I'm a huge fan of), one of the main reasons why I live Mr. Freeze was his monologues and brilliant one-liners. And who wouldn't cry when he begged for Nora's forgiveness via snow globe ballerina at the end of "Heart of Ice". I just want a live action Batman movie to do justice to such a complex character like how Dark Knight elevated the Joker.
Batman, TaS: when Batman could still crack the odd joke. CAUSE HE WASN'T A PSYCHOPATH
@Ricardo Santos It's the same version of the character. The Justice League shows were a continuation of Batman and Superman animated series.
That's exactly been my complaint of newer Batman stories, his humanity has been taken from him.
@@righthere27 thy made him misterious, but with not showing his human nature beneat the mask
For me it was Clayface in "Feats of Clay" episodes. "I'M NOT AN ACTOR ANYMORE! I'M not even human" Then sobs.
I almost cried with him.
"sheds a single tear"
Both eyes are tearing
Another good example from BTAS is the Mad Hatter.
His fall is slower, damned by small steps. In the end of his debut episode he surrenders, broken after seeing what he's done to the woman he loved.
In a future episode he actually captures Batman, and instead of killing him, or finding out his identity, he just puts him into a dream, where everything he ever wanted has come to pass. he just wanted Batman out of his way.
He's the intelligent, socially awkward, nerd that so many comic fans are. The path he takes to villain-hood is one most of us could easily see ourselves walking.
Mad Hatter is the OG yandere
“You, of all people, have the _gall_ to ask me that question!? You ruined my life! I was willing to give you whatever life you wanted! _JUST TO KEEP YOU OUT OF MINE!”_
I still love the Hatter’s last line from that episode. I don’t know why, but it always stuck with me. :P
When I first heard of the mad hatter I was thinking, “SERIOUSLY?” Then I read and watched his material and now he’s one of my favorite villains.
BtAS Hatter is the only valid Hatter....his portrayal is rather nasty in the comics.
Fun fact. The villain you compared to Walt Disney. It is rumored/urban legend that Walt Disney had his body frozen, which is probably what inspired the character.
HAH
probaly not
I honestly have a hard time deciding between Clayface or Harvey Dent as my favorite villain from the show.
They really let you get used to Harvey being a good guy before his fall from grace. I think I love him because he's someone Batman, ultimately couldn't save despite his best efforts. Because you can save people from themselves.
Clayface just had such an interesting story but despite his eventual lumbering size and massive strength, his biggest strength is his thst he can shapeshift. Combined with him being an award-winning actor it makes him terrifying. Also an example of a villain who was legitimately wronged and became consumed by vengeance.
honestly the episode with Clayface's "daughter" put him above most other villains shown on the show aside from the Joker/Harley Quinn/ Ivy/ Catwoman dynamic when they showed it Clayface was one of the best written villains on the show. If it wasn't for that one episode(Clayface is who I am referring to) Dent and Freeze would have a tie for the best solo villains on the show to me.
Yeah that episode was straight up dark and disturbing. By the time everything is done and Clayface is subdued and arrested. It’s a kick to the gut on how destroyed Tim Drake (I think?) is emotionally that we, the viewer, actually agree to the murder charge.
Harvey Dent is two extremes coexisting not so much morally ambiguous. The way most people handle themselves develops the morally grey/imperfect dynamic but Dent is literally split down the middle. Obviously he has a more sinister tilt but supposedly it’s 50/50. He’s an interesting villain but I never really know how to feel about him. Even when the good outdoes the bad it’s put up to chance not any part of him overcoming his selfish desires.
@@ethanwatson6131 Harvey is not really an extreme either way though, he is a gambler through and through he used to gamble with knowing the law and believing the law was just and that he could use the rules to live a honest life, he kept his evil in check by holding the illusion above it that the law was fair, it was everything to Harvey the illusion of a good life, he repressed his evil side to believe the lie, so when the illusion shattered like a mirror and his monster now could actually show Harvey that the law did not matter with everything crashing around him, his illusion shattered he became Two Face, giving both the good and the bad an equal chance through using the coin as a substitute for the law that had held the evil side at bay as he still needs that illusion in a different form not to completely give in to his darker half, the third personality "The Judge" shows what happens when Harvey reverted back to using the law without the restriction of his good side dictating what Justice is, taking the Law into his own hands.
roe Rethinking it he isn’t a very emotionally or morally based character. More a parody of the human perception of order and fairness. Harvey was perfect in the eyes of law and “justice” but he acted that way indiscriminately. When he becomes Two-Face it’s the same thing except he’s balancing order and chaos like they’re sides of a coin and following whatever he is told is fair. Even though the latter one is of his own making both systems are arbitrary comforts that take away agency and moral dilemmas replacing them with something easier to understand. He’s not fighting his inner demons he’s trying to apply reason to an unreasonable world that he lacks a genuine moral compass to navigate. Instead he just arrives at impasses, flips a coin, and follows to no end. It’s actually more tragic than I realized because he has no conceivable happy ending.
"As a child of the 90's" I'm sold. Waiting every Saturday for a new episode of Batman. Mr. Freeze goes hard.
Wow, I've never met another person who considered Mr. Freeze their favorite villain, and a fellow Oklahoman to boot! What are the odds?
True story: when it came time for me to select a Vo-Tech course to attend after high school, I chose HVAC/Refrigeration specifically because of my love for this character, and wanting to learn how to make things cold. Great retrospective on the character!
What are the odds for a three-for-three on both counts?
Bah, Freeze is NO villain for me [more of an anti-villain]. I pity the man for what he has been through. Almost cried when I re-watched his episode.
As ive told my girlfriend many times "I'd burn down this entire world if it meant you'd be safe" I know I couldnt actually do that but she saved me from myself... And theres almost nothing i wouldnt do to return the favor. And it scares me to think what I'd do if someone ever took her from this world... And that's why I agree... Victor could be anyone... One different choice, And Batman could be who Victor became. Imagine if victor had Batman's resources and years to come up with the perfect revenge. Thats a scary thought for whoever hurt him.
@@KlintKaras as someone burning in your hypotetichal fire, you realyze that doesn't make neither you or mr.freeze good guys right?
@@npc6817
You'd do everything for someone you love, you know very well what you're doing is not good.
@@CEBph5997 cool motive, still murder
I always really loved the episode where they introduced Clayface. It was sad and always left me thoughtful as a child.
Tropes are not evil. You can't say that this is a good story, and then say that the core of the story is 'wrong'. The trope of a character that is 'lost' and another character that will do anything to bring them back is as old as time, something anyone can relate to, and something that cannot be casually discarded because 'omg objectifying women'. Almost every narrative contains 'object' characters. They can be handled poorly, or well. If Nora is so 'problematic' then surely the death of the Wayne family is as well? I guess we can't have narratives featuring dead or incapacitated people as motivation anymore, because they can't fulfill the bechdel test?
Freeze makes a great counterpoint to Batman because he begs the question: would Batman fall as far if he had the chance to save his parents?
Yeah that was kinda awkward in the video despite the majority of the video is good
Kind of agree, i cant help but feel like he would've been more lenient if that was for example a son in that tube. Still, I dont think he was wrong in bringing up the point. A flat charactet is a flat charactet after all, and just because her only role was to become his drive behind his villany she was not handled in a good way
saverio That would be fair criticism, really hit the nail on the head
@@npc6817 Why does it matter? Why is a son ok, but a wife not ok? It isn't really a character, its a macguffin. It doesn't matter what gender your characters and macguffins are, what matters is that they are well written.
What would extra characterization of Nora MacGuffin have brought to the stories here? Nothing. Could you tell a story where it was relevant? Absolutely. Because you didn't tell that story, does it make this story worse? No.
@@capacamaru about the son/wife thing yeah, it shouldn't matter but truth is people look at a character like that and see a disempowered woman oppressed into a role and yadda yadda but if she were a son (or just male) that would not be even brought up.
Also mcguffins only work if you can get the audience to care about them, otherwise they just feel forced. R2d2 is a mcguffin for all of a new hope, but we care about him because he not only contains the plans of the death star, he is also a fleshed character.
Nora is a lifeless body in a tube.
The infinity gauntlet not only represents ten years of stories coming togheter in an epic finale, it embodies thanos's determination and sacrifice in exchange for power, not to mention the two are never separated in the whole film.
Nora is still a lifeless body in a tube.
Tropes are not evil IF handled correctly.
I grew up with this show, and besides mark hamil’s joker, Mr freeze was my favorite villain. Awesome vid, your one of the few channels who “deconstructs” stuff and actually gets it right instead of sputtering off fancy words that no one understands
Thank You!
And the voice acting of Michael Ansara too deserves credit. On the surface he sounds like a robot, but Ansara's delivery also manages to convey the anger, contempt, and most importantly, the hurt and agony of his situation.
The implication that our world has ever been anything other than a chaotic mess
Great video essay man! Pleasure to watch
I kinda feel that Mister Freezes appearances in the Arkham games would also fit in this video, where he mostly takes on a mostly heroic role (even if at one point you fight him in the best boss battle in the series). Additional, the end of his Arkham Knight story could do with a mention for how it concludes his overall story
Me as a kid:
Vegetables bad!!!
Me now:
Why aren't there croutons in my salad!!!
Cool story?
I still hate salad. Cant stand lettuce and tomatoes.
autisonm So you never had tomato sauce?
@Starscream91 he needs to fill all that empty space inside him with something
@@rangerkenny665 If its cooked like on a pizza or spaghetti then its okay. If its cold like marinara or actual tomatoes then I dont like it. Ketchup tastes different enough that it gets a pass.
Yeah Mr. Freeze sure knows how to bring warmth to our hearts.
The second episode of Mr freeze definitely deepens the character. Seeing what Mr. Freeze is willing to do to save his wife despite of his hatred toward Walker is great. And Watching the antagonist Mr. Freeze snaps out of it and teams up with the dynamic duo puts the biggest smile on my face.
However, I can’t help but being pulled out of the story by the villain Walker’s plan. It’s too over the top! A man-made island city? I can totally see that happen in a Batman story. But having enough energy to drop earth temperature into an ice age for 5 years, destroying billions of lives? It’s not want I expect from a Batman villain, wouldn’t the tone be better if Walker only plans to destroy Gotham city?
It's interesting how Freeze was turned into such a sympathetic, and emotional villain. Yet in the comics he was cold, ruthless, an outright murderer who couldnt care less about murdering someone for no reason other than them speaking to him or looking at him. As far as Im concerned they're two different characters at this point.
Was?
Do you mean Freeze before or after his remolding in Batman TAS? I don't read comics
@@concept5631 freeze in the TAS. The comics have him ruthless, at least they did 15 years ago. I havent kept up with the comica anymore either.
I was really relating to the points you made in this vid. It got to me to be honest, because not only did my formative moral compass develop from BTAS, Heart of Ice was the prime example. From the moment I saw that episode it was my absolute favorite, and I based some changes on how I view the world from the plight of Mr. Freeze.
Then you revealed you're from Oklahoma and it all clicked. I originate from Rural Northwest Oklahoma and am a 90's child. It's bonkers that so many of the notes struck true to myself, but it is because I come from literally the same environment.
The closed-mindedness that I grew up with I reflected as a kid, and to harp on an already made point, shows like BTAS shaped me into a better person.
So this lesson learned from animation is definitely something I can relate to, directly.
Thank you for the great vid!
Thanks, this is honestly one of the best comments I've gotten on a video, and always glad when something I made can resonate with people.
Hanson I’m from Claremore.
I'm still hoping for Patrick Stewart to play Victor Fries in a (better) Batman film
He's Anglo, though.
@Split Haven He's German.
perfect casting... Stewart should be allowed to flex as a proper Shakespearean villain.
I'd cast him as Freeze or even Lex anyday. Question is which does he suit more? (accent not withstanding... Lex could've easily been schooled in UK posh school if you want to explain it that way)
after Joker I immediately thought they should make a mr Freeze movie.
This is pretty great! Love Mr. Freeze. A lot of people see him as a one note villain, I hope he’s developed more in comics and Batman media.
In a lot of ways, I feel like I lucked out that The Animated Series was my first exposure to the character. I didn't have time to go over it, as the video was already getting very long, but after TAS ended, his character never really reached the same heights again. It of course never got as bad as it was before TAS, but most of his character arcs are just trying to recapture the magic of "Heart of Ice" and rarely do anything new with him. Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for watching.
Side note, I just realized how fitting Cold As Ice is in regards to Mr. Freeze
No joke, coming up with the ending song is always my favorite part of making videos.
I don't think anybody sees Freeze as a one note villain. His BTAS characterization is pretty much his default one now.
It is true that few people think of themselves as bad, but the reasons usually aren't just their worldview.
For example I have heard many stories of bullies that became ashamed and regretful once they realized the effects of what they were doing.
And as you exemplified through yourself, peoples oppinions and worldviews change and they can learn to understand others better. Is this not exactly what redemption should be based on?
The real world is of course more complex than childrens stories, but Humans are beings of potential.
Really good job on the thumbnail of this video. I'm an illustrator and graphic designer, and Mr. Freeze is one of my favorite character designs, and your thumbnail really caught my attention. I appreciate thumbnails that capture someone's attention without resorting to shit like arrows, circles, or some other gaudy bullshit. Kudos.
Thanks, I think it's probably one of my best thumbnails I've made. Of course I can't take credit for the actual artwork myself, as it is just the title card artwork for one of the episodes, I just did a little touch up around the edges to make it not so obvious it was originally done in a 4:3 aspect ratio. All the artwork for those old title cards still looks amazing, this seems to be a pretty good collection of them here if you're interested. imgur.com/gallery/A3iny
This is my favorite video on this entire site. Thank you. I watch it like once a month and it always feels like I’m watching it for the first time.
This video was well written and spoken. Very formal. I enjoy it quite a bit.
Batman: Sub-Zero is my favorite Batman movie and I still own the VHS.
This was a really fantastic video. I appreciate how you dive so in depth into this show and really bring out so much powerful stuff from it!
Thank you for adding timestamps for each section! Very helpful
19:34 🤣 Oh, you sweet summer child. You had no idea what you were in for. None of us did!
Outside of Victor, what other villains from Batman's rogues gallery seem redeemable to you all? Here is my own personal list of possible ones.
1. Harley Quinn: The reasons why Harley is redeemable have been talked about to near death. So, I won't talk about it too much. The only thing I will add is the fact that she simply has a terrible idea for a soulmate.
2. Poison Ivy: Yes, I know she's done a lot of killing. But it all comes from what she considers good intentions. Humans have, indeed been relentlessly destroying the Green; as of late and very few seem to care.
All she needs is to be around people who can show her the RIGHT way to help her babies blossom...and find a place far from cityscape.
3. Killer Croc: Due to how he was born and how he was treated as a result. It makes sense for someone like Waylon to become so savage. Sadly, in this day and age; it feels like people are being insulted left and right for the dumbest of reasons.
All Waylon needs is for someone to truly show him some empathy, kindness and love. To show him that just because people TREAT him like a monster, he doesn't have to BE one.
4. Clayface (the Matt Hagen version:) Hagen was an accomplished actor who worked for an EXTREMELY shallow industry. The moment he showed any signs of wrinkles or grey, they decide to replace him. Plus, it didn't help the Dagget was giving him a highly addictive and toxic cream that "helped" his complexion.
While it may be near impossible to cure him. He could still use his powers for the greater good. He could still work as an actor, become the new "Man of A Thousand Faces" or even become a spy
5. Catwoman: She's not really evil, she just likes to take things she finds precious. She's like a little kid who steals toys from their sibling's room because it looks cool. Plus, even Batman sees good in her.
6. Two-Face: A man with two voices in his head fighting for control. Add a hideously disfigured face and losing his job as District Attorney, you best believe I'm adding Harvey to the list. What really astounds me is that for all his tech and knowledge, Bats has barely made an effort to fix him.
7. Ventriloquist: It's not the man's fault, it's the dummy. When you have a ventriloquist dummy made from the bark of a tree people have been hanged from for years...would you keep it. Yet somehow; that dummy, Scarface manages to keep a tight grip on Arthur.
But that doesn't mean the man is beyond hope. An episode from the series shows that Arthur is perfectly capable of being a kind person.
8. Deadshot: From my perspective, the guy isn't evil...he just does his job for whoever pays him most. It also doesn't help that that fat cow, Waller forced a bomb into his neck, blackmailed him into becoming her "hired gun" and threatened to kill his own daughter.
Thank goodness Injustice treated him with some respect.
9. Baby Doll: When the show you've worked years on kicks you out, live with a disorder that leaves you looking like a toddler (no matter how old you get) and people don't take you seriously because of how you look; it makes sense to turn to crime.
10. Man Bat
Ivy's killed a lot of people, but look at the kinds of folks she's killed. Corrupt CEOs poisoning the planet, domestic abusers, sex offenders. Basically, she's the female Dexter Morgan. The only folks who should be scared of her in my mind are those who have reason to be.
Tygris he sacrificed himself to save catwoman
@@kassie3320 I remember him...but I thought he went off to live in seclusion, at the end of the episode
@@TheMovieDoctorful Agreed
sadlobster1 So what about Man Bat
Thank you for your work!
this is one of my favorite videos ive watched. the ending really really sold it to me. Thank you for making it
Very insightful. Thank you!
Thanks for watching.
I suppose one positive of Nora not really having a character leaves her as a blank canvas for the viewer to hang an impression of someone they love on, rather than risk having Nora say or do something that makes her unlikeable.
Mr Freeze is really great though.
this was really beautiful! thanks for this
Great video. Thank you!
There's nothing wrong with Nora being a plot device and not a character. Enough with the double-standards.
Agreed.
I agree. For us she may come across as an object. But, for Victor She was his whole world...
100% Agree
Thank You!
She is not the one running around for a cure, she is literally unconscious the whole time, she doesnt need a "personality" to be good for freeze's character. If he and she were switched, vic wouldnt need a character, why would she?
I 1000% agree with Walker's urge to live, even at the cost of Freeze's condition.
A thousand frozen years gives the possibility that medical science may catch up enough to cure the unpleasant effects - death is notoriously irreversible.
I get the feeling Freeze's fate isn't really worth it and would only be desired by those who don't fully understand it.
So nostalgic and such a good new perspective on the simple comics and shows I used to watch. I get to see my favorite on a deeper level. Thank you!
Genuinely one of the best videos I’ve seen on RUclips
The fact they didn’t give her a voice and still made us feel the connection between her and Freeze is amazing.
Stop saying Mr. Frezze's wife died in front of him.
Didn't you watch the episode?
She's not dead, she's still frozen, heck Freeze stealing diamonds is part of trying to keep her alive.
Outstanding video, thank you for this (nice outro song by the way)
This was INCREDIBLE! I LOVE how deep you get into the character of Mr. Freeze and how you give such a thorough explanation of what a good villain and/or redeemable villain truly is!👏😄
"Freezes wife to protect her" ok seems like a decent guy
"Attempts to steal batgirls organs which could prove fatal" Wtf Mr. FREEZE
Mr freeze only cares about him and his wife, no one else matters to him.
@@gageunruh3574 yeah he still agrees and shows some care for some people (like when he helps Batman and Robin)
@@bryanu1737 while yes he can care its still mostly to help himself. If its about his wife she takes priority so if someone must die to save her...he WILL kill them in less than a heart beat.
Mr Freeze is like Hugh Jackman's character in The Fountain
This was great!
This is the best video essay I have ever seen, bar none. The topic flow, the music, and the editing, all of it is perfect.
After watching countless hours of youtube videos about character development, your explanation of why we like a sympathetic villain is the only one that resonated with me.
Excellent video and THE best. Outro. Ever.
Thanks! I always go back and forth about how I feel about my writing. But I'm usually pretty proud of the intros and outros for my videos.
I love this video so much! Your ending is amazing!
One of the best RUclips videos I've ever watched. Truly liked this. Thanks.
I don't understand your beef with Nora being a plot device. If Nora had a voice and wasn't frozen, then Mr. Freeze wouldn't be Mr. Freeze. Also, you're avoiding the idea that Nora is so amazing that Mr. Freeze would be willing to do evil to bring her back. We don't need to know about Nora to understand that Mr. Freeze wants Nora back. If Mr. Freeze had been a Mrs. Freeze, it wouldn't have changed anything. Stop looking for "problematic" things when its not intended.
Great, man. This piece was simply great.
This was a very awesome analyzation on one of my favorite characters!! Very well done!
i grew up with this show and saw these episodes multiple times and am only just now noticing the pun with the names.
“Boyle” is the opposite of “Freeze”
Why the hell don’t you have thousands of subs yet? It was a really really good video. You have earned a loyal sub today my friend.
I have seen this video around 6 times already. Its just this good.
I love your choice of outro music. Very fitting!
"My God what happened?"
"It's the whole crew!"
*NOT QUITE*
I opened this video and saw your subscriber count and then the second I heard the quality of your mic I subscribed immediately cause I knew this was gonna be good and I needed to support this channel
Man you did a hell of a job on this video!
Had this in my watch later for a year, think it's finally time to check it out.
20:48 What about Batman Beyond? I would argue Freeze significantly changed in his brief arc on that show. And it wasn't Bruce that did it...it was Terry MacGuinness.
You can still screwed up when making sympathetic villains. Not all sympathetic villains are well-written. It can get saturated too if the idea of sympathetic villains are getting too mainstreamed. It always depend on the writer.
@@duroorud527 Because they have some kinds of relatability for some people, and therefore they are sometime more likable than your usual villains.
But even then, you can make a compelling pure evil villain. You just need to know what you do and how you do it.
@@alfianfahmi5430 This! A healthy mix of both are required. Everyone likes to watch the pure chaos Joker and Green goblin cause and everyone sympathize with Freeze and Sandman's predicament
Awesome video!!!
This is such a good video!