The thing that always amused me about the "I threw a rock at him!" Scene is that, in a way, it shows that he is more intelligent, or at least practical, than the others. They all have long complex plans, but Killer Croc is the one who actually came closest by playing to his strengths, literally. He took the most expedient option, and the one that had the best chance of actually doing something. The worst that can happen is he misses, as with a 'really big rock' even a glancing hit would seriously inconvenience or injure Batman. So it almost felt like Bats giving him proper respect in a way that the other crooks didn't or couldn't. Killer Croc knows who he is. Ruthless and direct. Like a very large thrown rock.
Personally I always headcannoned that Batman was telling a story of an encounter he had with Killer Croc that he remembered. Maybe to him that WAS the time that Croc almost got him.
Boring But Practical. And that also exposes the problem with most villains when it comes to dealing with heroes. They always gotta make a grand spectacle out of it. Happens again in the Justice League episode, "Secret Society" when Gorilla Grod and his gang defeat and capture the League. Grodd wants to save the heroes until they can execute them all in front of a large audience. *Clayface (a former movie actor) tells him what a TERRIBLE* idea that is as that's how the heroes always escape in the end, and to just kill them now.
It's like the one time in the Justice League cartoon, where Joker finally gets the drop on Batman by just sneaking up behind him while he's watching the rest of the Legion of Doom and just hits him over the head with a bag full of metal toys. Didn't need exploding fish or what have you for that.
In Sideshow, Croc clearly isn’t used to being treated kindly. He’s rude and manipulative towards his benefactors, but there are scenes where he seems to struggle with pangs of guilt and hesitation that are foreign to him. Most “failed villain reform” episodes spotlight characters who are very articulate in specifying what they want for in life. Croc is so used to living as he does that he doesn’t even seem to realize what he’s been deprived of. Displays of hospitality and human connection may not reform him, but they still affect him. You can’t help wondering if he’d warm up to the other former carnies over time if Batman hadn’t shown up.
I'm of the mind that Croc was gonna Croc with or without Batman, but there's one other thing to consider: Croc was dodging a jail sentence when he found the performers. Not only should Croc have been brought in to uphold law and order and give justice to the victims of his crimes (which, knowing Croc, may have been killer), but if his reaction to Batman coming was to grab a rifle and try to snipe him, then he likely would have been a ticking bomb that would get worse as his fears of being brought in grew over time. If Croc carried out his jail sentence and behaved himself, he likely could have been released and then return to the performers a free man and start over earnestly. Croc didn't want to, though, so I think he always would have been selfish, even if now surrounded by friendly faces. That said, it really is tragic seeing Croc lose a life that could have been good for him, whether he rejected it out of panic or greed.
@SerumLake Maybe I'm riding the same cynical cycle, because I just considered that whether Croc was always going to betray the performers or not...he was dodging a jail sentence. Poor Croc for losing a second chance, but what about "Poor Croc's victims, who may be dead?" He certainly could have reformed in jail and return to the performers after release, but I think his scheming to take the money and resorting to violence when Batman arrived are proof he had no interest in turning things around.
Throwing a rock at him was smarter than the overcomplicated plans that all the other characters did. It was just as effective without requiring a ton of equipment and planning.
So Croc being viewed as dumb is kind of like how Super Friends ruined Aquaman’s reputation for years. The difference is that Croc’s line isn’t even his own.
I think that the most important part of Croc is the "I only think for myself because no one ever did" and he became less and less sympathetic as time went on, sort of a "he was treated like a monster and so he end up becoming one" type of situation. A good interpretation of Croc should have this basis to guide the character's actions.
There's actually a fun alternative way to view the "hit him with a rock" thing. See, while the original line was spoken as Batman, posing as Killer Croc, we have no reason to believe that this event DIDN'T actually take place. In fact, while Croc mentioning it during the trial is almost certainly a callback, it also further solidifies that the rock event did, in fact, take place. This implies that Batman views the rock event as an ACTUAL threat to his life. Hilariously, this means that despite all the convoluted methods of murder that his rogues gallery have attempted through the years, all the fear gas, Joker toxin, giant coins, deadly vegetables, and etc, that one time that Killer Croc threw a rock at Batman was the most legitimately threatened he'd ever actually been. He must have thought to himself "Damn, if that rock had landed even an INCH to the left, I'd have been killed for sure!". And that's just... really funny to think about.
I personally love his story in Joker's Arkham where he escapes and becomes a right hand of mob boss who treats hime like family, only to get manipulated to destroy everyrhing. His parting line " I am not the monster, they are. Put me back in" is heartbreaking in so many ways, saddest being he prefers the cold treatment of Arkham over having to have his hopes destroyed again
I love Killer Croc. He is my favourite Batman villain, but most media usually portray him as an evil sociopath with very little sympathy. I know he was only pretending, but one moment in sideshow shows Croc briefly hesitating stealing the money. It is a blink and you'll miss it a moment but it is there. The exchange between him and Billy was sad. He almost sounded ashamed of himself, like there was a part of him that wanted to stay, but his bad impulses ruined everything. Croc was a very dangerous villain on the show, but I wish they had actually revealed his more sympathetic side on the show. In the comics, Croc becomes more tragic over time, to the point where he actually turns anti-hero a few times. Even in the spinn off comics of TAS, the writers explored the sympathetic side of the TAS version of Croc in 2 issues (one of them involving Croc falling in love with Summer Gleason). Honestly, I think the adventure comics were better than the animated series sometimes.
Yeah, the adventures comics were really good. In some ways I like that Croc is almost entirely irredeemable, and is just a bad person. When presented with the opportunity to start over in Sideshow, it really didn’t take much to tempt him back to his bad behaviour. He couldn’t even keep the facade up for a whole day.
Course, it does bug me that Killer Croc in the tie-ins is less of a confirmed murderous crim in some issues, only to be back on that depiction in others. Really makes it hard to root on which of the tales are canon or not to the rest of the DCAU adjacent stuff.
I really like Croc, he's a big brute but he had some moments where he's smarter than you'd give him credit for, like framing the cop, but also in Sideshow, he knows to steal Batman's belt and even where to find the knock out gas pellets to use on the other freaks. So I like to think that "hit him with a rock" like from the trial was Croc hearing about Batman's shit and wanting some ironic payback by beating him with a rock.
Always liked this scene from Croc's episode with Baby Dahl. Judge: This court finds you capable of murder and legally sane. Croc: Capable? I'm as good as it gets!
Even in arguably its weakest episodes, you can't help but admit that every single DCAU episode has at least one gold quality series of character lines and neat voice acting.
3:16 Not quite. While yes, Croc was never protrayed as the cunning criminal mastermind he was in his first apperances as there were writers who portrayed him as just as dumb big monster for Batman to punch, there were also those who portrayed Croc as more sympathetic character, a misunderstood monster who just wanted to be left alone. One the best exemple is "Requiem for Killer", from Batman 471 in 1991 (which Sideshow takes alot of inspiration from by the way). Much like in the episode, it focus on Croc finding a family, in the case with people from a underground shelter. The difference is that, in the comic, Croc doesn't lie. He truly bonds with the people and treats them like family to the point he help Batman to save them from a flood. The comic even reveals Croc has nightmares, of being chased by Batman and sent to Arkham were his is victim of torture and abuse, making his anger towards the dark knight much more understantable.
I did consider mentioning that comic, but it came out after Croc’s first appearance was written (but you probably saw I did use the cover - never can turn down the opportunity to use some Norm Breyfogle art!) I can see some similarities with Sideshow, but the episode was based on Detective Comics 410 by Neil Adams and Denny O’Neil. The story involved Batman chasing down an escaped convict who stumbled upon a group of former circus people living in the woods. Billy the seal boy and Goliath are ripped straight from the comic - if memory serves Richard was as well, but it’s been a while since I’ve read it.
There was also a comic where he lived peacefully with Swamp Thing in a swamp until Swamp Thing started hitting him because he was distracted by his duties to The Green so Croc left the swamp.
@@SerumLake It's mix of both, very similar to the Laughting fish episode, which takes inspiration from the comic with the same name, as well Joker's Five revenge storyline.
@@Xehanort10 Yeah, and the interaction between Swamp Thing and Batman are very good dillema about what justice truly is, with the hero wanting to arrest Croc so he pay for his crimes while the guardian of the green belives Croc should stay on the swamp where a animal like him belong. Another great Croc stories is the one from Joker Asylum, where he's rescue by couple of mobsters and is manipulate by the woman to kill her husband.The best part is how Croc doesn't even speak until the end of the story, highlighting the humanity of the misunderstood reptile monster.
You know, the "I threw a rock at him" scene is funnier with the context that Croc was Batman in disguise. Because it means Batman couldn't think of a better Almost Got Em story... or that he wanted to draw as little attention to himself as possible; and thus made his story very short so he wouldn't hold the spotlight very long.
there is a theory i saw that posited that croc DID almost kill batman by throwing a rock at him in a quarry, and it was notable enough to batman that he rememebered to recount it in the episode.
Or he was insulting all of the villains around him by pointing out their schemes are to complex and that killer croc was the guy who really almost got ‘em.
I love how DC regularly has ways of redeeming characters that have been trashed and humiliated. It's like they care not only about their characters but about how the fans of those characters feel. One of my favorite examples of this is in the famous Knightfall series. Much like the animated series, when Bane is introduced, they wanted a way to show how dangerous and competent he was in a fight, and just how strong his venom made him. This was done by having him brutally maim Killer Croc, leaving him crippled and humiliated. But it didn't end there. Of course, if they need to establish Bane as dangerous, they need to maintain that Killer Croc is dangerous, and having Bane destroy him easily would undermine their purpose. Later on, Bane chases Batman into the sewers, where Killer Croc spots them, having healed up from his previous injuries. At this point, he barely cares about Batman, and has a serious score to settle. He ambushes Bane, allowing Jean Paul to escape, and fights Bane in HIS territory, where he can show why you don't mess with the Croc. He also isn't stupid. Killer Croc is observant, and he knows how Bane was able to defeat him before. This time, one of the first things he does when he ambushes Bane is break the venom controller on his wrist, leaving him unable to juice up. He then goes to give Bane a thorough walloping, using the sewer environment to his advantage, and forcing Bane to retreat, knowing he can't win. Yes, Bane was established as dangerous, and he soundly defeated Croc the first time. But Croc redeemed himself, showed he wasn't a brainless brute, and let Bane know he isn't the only big bad in Gotham. This undoubtedly was a conclusion satisfying to both the fans of Bane and Killer Croc. Bane continued to be the main focus of the comic... but he never dared go into the sewers again.
It wasn't the really smart plans of some of the other villains but Croc planning to kill Spider Conway and Joey The Snail for testifying against him and frame Bullock for the murders in Vendetta was quite cunning.
In all fairness the other villains didn’t become suspicious of Killer Croc after he said that, implying that that would be in character for him. Further more in the episode, “Trial” Killer Croc says, “hit them with a rock!”
Yeah, that is entirely possible. However, I take it to mean that they didn't think much of his intellect. And the line is Trial is Croc letting Batman know that he's aware of the impersonation. But maybe I'm overthinking it.
I will never NOT find it absolutely hilarious that in ‘almost got him’ Batman disguised as Croc says he almost got him with a big rock, and later in the circus freak episode he attempts to kill Batman…by dropping a big rock on him, lmao And the fact he was SO CLOSE to succeeding if he weren’t pumped full of ridiculous amounts of tranquilizers
There was also a great new batman adventure episode with him teaming with baby doll. It once again shows Crocs selfish uncaring tendencies harming someone who might genuinely care about him.
I like to headcanon that Batman wasn't trying to make Killer Croc look bad. He earnestly meant Killer Croc throwing a rock really was the closest anyone got to killing him.
Just founded this chanel But I stay for more. I love how croc introduction fell like horror movie huge jaws vibes. Also love how you cover the villian original aperences in comics.
Btas Croc isn't stupid, he is just a brute, when his carefully planned revenge failed, he decided "Forget convoluted plans, I'm gonna go for the quickest route to victory, killing"
Great video! The original Croc saga that culminated in Detective 526 is one of my all-time favorite storylines, especially the buildup, as the climax is, though excellent, in some ways a letdown, I think, that doesn't fully resolve all the storylines they had been building up (Dick questioning Batman's attitude in volunteering Jason's parents for as deadly a task as tailing Croc, Batman's growing cynicism and anger, expressed when he told Dick off for his concern over the Todds, going so far as to say that he was sick of citizens not doing their part, the idea that Batman was somehow intimidated by Croc and how the writers were going to believably have Batman overcome a villain who had decisively beaten multiple times at that point), but it was still great. I actually think that Knightfall was probably lifted from it many ways; Croc was the strongest foe Batman had faced, he systematically took over Gotham crime, he pushed Batman further than ever before, during the course of the story, Batman had to face essentially all his foes and in both cases, Bane and Croc beat up Batman enemies to prove how tough they were, with Croc ironically jobbing to Bane the way Catman and others had jobbed to him in 526 (albeit off-screen for the most part). Anyway, great video, great analysis and you've got yourself a subscriber.
The best part about "i threw a rock at him!" Is thar out of all the flashbacks.....hes shown to habe gotten the closest with Batman barelly escpaing by the skon of his teeth more so then the other stories. I think its Batman stating it was the closest hes ever come to being taken out and it was by the simplest most straightforward plan wothout any confultatee mechanisms or showmanship. Its hard to outsmart a mass of pure kinetic energy.
When I watch the episode sidshow Killer Croc he should have realized that he had a new family people for how they look. If Batman never finds Killer Croc I'm pretty sure Killer Croc would have suggested a new family he would know what love is and he would know to say maybe it's time that he won't kill people. What Sad me the most is that when Batman find Killer Croc. And Killer Croc goes back to his own ways again
The 2004 series completely reinvented Croc. A man who was mutated into a literal crocodile man, Croc was both strong and cunning. Prone to dropping southernisms, Croc arrives in Gotham, recruits two thieves into his service, and concocts a clever plan: Reverse the outflow drains in the sewers to flood certain areas of Gotham, so Croc and the boys could rob at their leisure.
Funny thought about "Almost Got Him"? Batman might be relating a real encounter he had with Croc to be more convincing. Meaning amidst all the elaborate, crazy scenes the villains relate about almost killing Batman, Bruce thinks some time Croc got lucky with a boulder was the closest time he ever got to being taken out.
In the arkham verse he did find happiness with a sideshow earlier on his career....but then they were murdered by mobsters. Croc is implied to have killed the mobsters (we see a picture of him walking away from a trash can with a hand sticking out, while croc says "and i never forget a scent")
It’s kinda sad that an objectively hilarious joke (in the fact that it’s funny without the context of Batman and with it as it’s how Batman sees him) has coded everyone’s perception of him in the show
Such is the double edged sword of memetic mutations, and the occasionability of someone only seeing notable clips of the DCAU with little proper context during their lifetime
If you want a rather oddball, but still really good Killer Crock story from the Batman TAS universe, check out Batman Adventures #7, which shows Jones returning to his underground wrestling roots. While the tone is cheeky, it does not reduce Crock to a joke, and it's probably the most sympathetic story to feature this version of the character. You really wanna cheer for him through and through.
yeah, I'm a big fan of the BTAS tie-in comics. I've even ordered the upcoming omnibus, despite owning all of the original issues, and having digital copies. I clearly have a problem...
@@SerumLake I was already a young adult when I got into the TAS comics, so it was rather awkward to be into 'kiddy' comics when everyone else in my comics fanclub was deep into more mainstream stuff... but this was the mid 90s! Comics in general sucked, and the TAS comics were consistently good in contrast!
Yeah, those were the years that I really got into comics. I loved Kelley Jones’ art on Batman, and Shadow of the Bat was usually a good read. Outside of those, Batman Adventures was always at the top of my reading list.
I interpret the "Hit him with a rock!" joke differently. I take it as Batman's impersonation in "Almost Got 'Im" was accurate, and Croc DID try to hit Batman with a rock at some point, and in fact we see him do just that in "Sideshow."
I was waiting to hear about the changes and his connection to Baby Doll in the New series. I thought it was an interesting take pairing him with her, you get almost the same emotional pull that you see with the carnies except more potently affecting him in a way
Most of the time I try to keep BTAS and TNBA separate because I view them as very different shows (despite the DVD/Blurays bundling them together) but I did touch upon Love Is A Croc in my Baby Doll video. I don't really care for the episode that much, but I've had lots of comments from people explaining why they enjoy it and I get it now.
@@SerumLake I feel as though the shows do separate themselves, but they rely on eachother enough that the depictions they offer take care of the characters they present for the most part. Enough so that it's worth commenting on somewhat. Similar to how you cover how Baby reacts in a similar manner to herself in BTAS and New, it's interesting to see a similar dynamic with Croc and relationships
I didn't like Croc's redesign. In BTAS he was a guy with a skin condition, but the New version looks like he's actually a human / crocodile hybrid. And he also has a different voice actor, so it almost seems like a completely different character.
@@KasumiKenshirou weirdly croc DOES look more inhuman and monstrous in the comcis sometimes. although that was explained as specifically the Hush plot infecting him with something that altred his condition.
Discovered your channel through this and HAD to binge through all your past Bat-content - incredible stuff all around! If you're ever in the market for some under-discussed Batman stuff to cover as a BTAS fan, nothing ever quite scratch the same itch BTAS did until I found Batman Unburied on Spotify, and I'd love to hear your thoughts. Great work, as usual! Made an instant fan outta me.
Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. I did listen to Batman Unburied on Spotify and thought it was pretty decent. I remember thinking they took too long to explain the twist, although once Hugo Strange was brought up I had an inkling as to what was going on. It had some strong Perchance To Dream vibes going on!
7:14 I always enjoyed that line. It shows that even with people who are like him and want to help him Croc deep deep down doesn't care and will do anything that benefits himself no matter who gets hurt.
#SerumLake: Great takes on my all-time favorite TV series. Always appreciate the time you take to analyze the ins and outs of what made this show work. If I may be so bold, I've got 2 ideas for a video on BTAS... 1) How real-world places and architecture influenced the look of Gotham City for BTAS. For all the East Coast American influences, the artists on BTAS had fun throwing in some other urban references, as well. Note how the restaurant in the beginning of PROPHECY OF DOOM looks like a certain World's Fair landmark from Seattle. 2) THE EVERYDAY HEROES OF GOTHAM. From JOKER'S FAVOR and P.O.V., right through OLD WOUNDS, the writers and animators of BTAS did a great job of reminding viewers that ordinary citizens have just as much power as someone wearing a cape and utility belt. The ups and downs these citizens went through are stories that were just as compelling as Batman versus Joker or whatever Rouge's Gallery shenanigans we came to expect from BTAS. One side note, if possible, could you let us viewers know the name of the full song that you play a snippet of for the end credits? It definitely has a great 60's instrumental vibe to it. Thanks a million...
Thanks for the kind words and for the suggestions! I’ll keep those bubbling away in the back of my brain. The song is a piece of music called Aptitude from Apple’s free music library.
The "Hit him with a rock" line could simply be true. Thus batman used that line. And when Croc says it later, is because he knew it almost worked last time.
True story: As a kid I remember Sideshow ending much, MUCH differently. Batman still catches Croc, but I recall Croc actually turning good and wanting to live free, settling down with a quiet life. And Batman comes for him in spite of it all, because that's the law. This memory stuck with my so strongly that I thought it was one of BTAS's best episodes. Watching it as an adult years later, I was horrified at how simple and reductive the plot was. The false memory I had created actually made Croc be sympathetic with motivation, and painted Batman as the bad guy. The real version has none of that.
I find the “almost got em” scene very disrespectful to killer croc Batman has very good memory and knows every attempt every villain tried and croc tried stabbing and drowning Batman all almost successful he deserves to throw a boulder at Batman for that disrespect
Thank you, great info about the comic version of the character, I always liked the TAS design of Croc (not much the one in the new adventure though), as for the characterization I think he was well made, but I admit he might've sounded a bit dumb at some points
Honestly, I am shocked that the idea of Croc being a pro wrestler before he fell into crime hasn't become a part of his general lore. There's a lot of potential behind the idea. It can explain his fighting style, how he possibly gained criminal contacts thanks to shady Territory Era dealings, and how he might have been a pain to deal with in the locker room and thus it's not a potential career plan anymore.
@@SerumLakeOn a goofier note, as well as something that might only make sense to people familiar with pro wrestling, I guarantee that if Killer Croc was a wrestler, he would almost certainly be employed by a stand-in for Jerry Lawler. (Lawler is, after all, a very avid fan of both superhero comics and monster movies, and would often book gimmicks for wrestlers based on these interests. I can't imagine him passing on the opportunity to wrestle against an actual crocodile man.)
That's kind of what I like about croc. He's not a Madman or a tragic victim, he's just a goon who is also a mutant and used his strengths to become effective criminal.
I wish more media would stop treating Croc as a big dumb brute and better explore the notion that Croc has a brain behind that brutish exterior Like, i dont know. Have a batman series where you have your "villain of the week" formula going on while weaving a subplot going on in the background and ending things off with the reveal that it's all been Crocs doing as he's been slowing taking over the criminal underbelly of gotham through out the show, even throw the audience a red herring by introducing Croc as little more then a big brute at first in a few episodes but have it so that each time Batman beats him he then pulls his own dissappearing act at the end of each episode until he reveals himself as a brilliant long term planner with power and influence to take over gotham without batman realizing it until hes nearly achieved his goal
Croc is cruel Croc is greedy Croc is vengeful And Croc is selfish That is the perfect way to discribe BTAS Croc. Instead of his comic counterpart where Croc was nurtured into becoming a villain, it's clear that he has a lot of nature in this version. Makes sense. A crocodile's first instinct is to hunt, and that's exactly what he does
While I do prefer his New Batman Adventures redesign a bit more, gotta say his old BTAS design has grown on me. The bumps, the interesting creepy mouth, the really long limbs, yellow eyes and teeth, and that weird green tinted grey skin It may be a bit far from my favorite Killer Croc design, but on its own I respect it a ton.
The original makes him look more like someone with a condition while the redesign makes him look like an actual crocodile. I personally prefer the first one, though i understand why people dislike it
Vendetta has my favorite few seconds of animation in the entire series. After Bullocks car gets totalled, Killer Croc makes a break for it down the sewer and throws the manhole cover back at the car. It's a split second but Batman gets out of the passenger door and darts back in to avoid getting smashed my the manhole cover. I rewind that part repeatedly.
It was another video from this channel about the times villains almost got Batman that I realized the I threw a rock at him was a reference to the episode sideshow where killer croc did indeed throw a really big rock at Batman and almost got him
Potentially! There are some differences, the incident that Batman describes in Almost Got ‘Im took place in a quarry where Croc was hiding from Batman. Batman was unconscious when Croc threw the rock in Sideshow, but he probably realised that the rock almost landed on his head when he came to.
Honestly, Killer Croc is my favourite Batman Villain after seeing him in Arkham Asylum. His line is so cold but so awesome. “A toy collar won’t stop me from killing you Batman… I’ll tear you apart, eat your bones!”
Honestly, I liked the first initial version of Killer Croc from the first two seasons. One, i liked his voice, like some countryside criminal, which I thought was interesting to see him try to make a criminal career in the big city of Gotham. Two, I loved his design, which was very different from any Croc design we would ever see later. I actually liked the gray skin, which I think gave him a unique look which would set him apart from other reptile mutant characters which are seen throught different shows and movies. IDK, to me those two aspects made me really like this version of Croc.
I agree that the grey skin just seems more believable than the green scales we see later on. Not that this children’s cartoon needs to be believable, mind you 😂
Killer Croc can be phenomenal as a villain, tragic or just cool, it's just that the DC universe has shifted more in recent years to doing a cosmic-scale event every few years, save for specific series, not much is given to the more subtle at-home villains like Croc save for maybe a reference, a small role or maybe a temporary power-up to put them on par with the other characters for a time, but that's it. Use him with reasonable heroic foils, put him indoors or somewhere there is limited space? Well, while any villain is obviously gonna be scarier in that scenario, Croc is one of the few who can make a TON of use of that space that a more grounded hero just can't. Just look at Arkham Asylum, the sewer part where you have to avoid Croc. Storywise, there's also an in-built tragic element I feel has very rarely been fully utilized, one where you could very much be made to sympathize with the very thing trying to kill you, but then they mostly undo that by having him be overly murderous and/or more of a monster than he needs to be. Imagine if we got an Arkham or really any Batman game set during a riot, where we are one of many inmates, many others of whom had tormented Croc as much as the cruel guards had, who somehow wind up deep in the sewers, with Croc stalking us thinking we are another cruel inmate after, during the riot, several of them tried to kill him, making his motives for wanting to kill us understandable, even if forged on a misunderstanding.
Yeah, Croc was awesome Pre-Crisis. Then they kind of turned him into an idiot in the 90’s. I personally prefer a smarter and more calculating Croc . I prefer him to be a villain, albeit one who’s not TOTALLY heartless! He should still always be a Batman foe, though .
Killer Croc is my Favorite Batman Villian cause he is just brute force personified and out of the entirety of BTAS he came closest to killing Batman the rock missed Batmans head by inches
5:31 I always interpreted that as him talking about Arkham. Him saying that the Asylum is full of freaks and that he's treated badly. Saying that to make himself sound more sympathetic.
It is a skin condition, but that doesn’t explain his incredible strength and ability to breathe under water! I think that the creators of the show don’t really know for sure 😂
I would really like a mutant approach, with croc being a freak experiment who'd escaped, but he remembers being normal once but now no one can look at him without feeling fear, and that makes him lonely. I would imagine that due to this, he would confine himself to living in the sewers or something. Idk, probably sounds like a generic backstory i know lmao
@@YUN6_V3NUZ to bee fair this IS the DC universe where a serum made from mongoose blood turned a boy green and gave him shapeshfiting powers, so a sin condition being very unusual and giving a perosn literal crocodile traits would work jsut as well XP
I do wonder why they don’t seem to give him a more sympathetic backstory Even in the comics he was far more sympathetic comparably, But in the show he was just a scumbag without much sympathy
I have to wonder if the censors may have put a stop to that - subjects like child abuse and racial discrimination may have been off the table, even for BTAS.
@@SerumLake personally I haven’t read a lot of Batman comics, but killer crock is a character that interests me a LOT I’ve always liked the “misunderstood monster” trope, and the stores I’ve heard of that portray crock as a villain to even antihero really appeal to me Although the comics themselves often portray him in a “he’s just a monster guy” role, he just exists purely to be muscle agaisnt batman It seems like croc on the comics will usually be fairly loyal to people who are kind to him But it really seems me DC just doesn’t know what to do with him, Personally? I’d make him a violent antihero protecting Gotham’s rejected and forgotten, somebody acting as a sort of guardian for the homeless living in the sewers, organizing a plan to fight back against some attempt to destroy affordable housing to build upscale condos maybe? Let croc find a community that accepts him for once that doesn’t end up betraying him
Fun Fact: Killer Croc wasn't originally planned to be a Batman villain. However, Firestorm's comic was cancelled two issues before the Reptile Man would show up.
I find him being in Arkham Asylum in Trial to be out of character, he has no excuse of insanity - he is a violent thug who enjoys cruelty, nothing more nothing less. It felt refreshing to have a rogue go to prison, it kind of made him seem more of a threat.
@@erubianwarlord8208Also, it is shown that when villains are caught by batman, they are usually sent to Arkham. I think the reason he got sent to Arkham is because he pleaded insanity and the courts are a bit more lenient towards insane criminals.
Croc isnt on the level as many other Batman villains in intelect. But he's neither an idiot nor unintelligent. Croc is just a man of average intelect in a world of many chaotic and scheeming people, and is facing one of the most intelligent people in DC. So naturaly he appears stupid and like a dunce among this crowd...
Fun fact - Croc's skin condition is closely related to a real one - "epidermolytic hyperkeratosis". It's a genetic disorder that that (and I quote the Wikipedia page) "initially presents with redness, blisters, erosions, and peeling in a newborn baby. Hyperkeratosis typically develops several months later. Other symptoms include itch, painful fissures, body odor, and absence of sweat. Symptoms vary in severity and extent of skin involvement. Complications include infection and joint problems. Affected newborns are particularly at risk of dehydration, sepsis, and electrolyte imbalance." But Croc's metahuman genes made it so his condition was ultimately beneficial, making his skin extremely difficult to damage rather than being prone to injury.
I think it’s more reasonable to presume that Batman’s impression of Crock was spot on, rather than that Croc was making a clever reference to it after the fact. Batman is a master impersonator and it’s likely he knew of Croc’s affection for hitting foes with rocks.
It was proven in Killer Croc’s first appearance in Batman TAS “Vendetta” that Croc was indeed apart of a carnival sideshow attraction when Batman was doing research on him. So he wasn’t lying when he said he was part of a “freak show.”
Any version of croc would never have been able to lead a normal life, it wouldn’t have mattered who he was as a person, no one would be able to get past his appearance, meaning that in a way he was almost destined to be a criminal.
Let's not forget in the comics Croc managed to talk down a suicidal & returned to heroin addicted Roy Harper after his daughter died, to the point Croc literally talks Roy into getting therapy & going to an addicts anonymous group offering to be his sponsor. It's a weird but human interaction I just can't see some huge dumb brute doing
Honestly, i really like the Killer Croc who is just that awful. That he isnt hurt soul because of his condition. He may be product of his enviroment, but when given chance, he still chooses to scam, steal and hurt. There are many rouges who are deformed and are bad because of it, cos no one ever believed in them. And im fine with Croc remaining this asshole.
This show shows how i view croc as imo evil but tragic, he’s also a twist on the whole juvie regular turned dangerous criminal archetype. His best episodes imo are Vendetta and Sideshow. Aaron Kincaid stole the show imo, plus he got a reform story in the Batman Adventures comics.
Depends on who you ask - that name is only used once in Vendetta. Every time afterwards his name is Waylon Jones. I take the view that Killer Croc Morgan was his wrestling name and that Waylon Jones is his real name.
The stereotype about the south always being extremely racist has been extremely over exaggerated to the point where two of my ex's moved from the north down to the South and ended up in an interracial relationship with me. As the wise man Sir mix a lot once said even white boys got to shout baby got back.
This universe's Killer Croc isn't someone worth homing on well compared to other flashier Rogues Gallery compadres, but one thing I've noticed is that I always appreciated how some of brutish-looking, big guy villains of the DCAU aren't exactly following up on the norms they're somewhat regrettably known for nowadays. Case in point, Gorilla Grodd and Darkseid are not only smart and witty enough to leave memorable impact (and quotes), they're also not stereotypically voiced with unseemly Hulk-like gruffness and growling in mind; thank Powers Boothe and Michael Ironside for that respectively. And in the meantime, you gotta know the full context of the story and the character before you mindlessly picture them from simple impersonal wiki searches and memetic fandom stuff. Trust me on this example: Terry McGinnis' friend and confidante from Batman Beyond Season 2 onwards, Maxine Gibson, is actually not that completely dumbheaded and scrappy if you've watched all of the show on the proper production order... one who does so will end up missing her presence on Return of rhe Joker, even. Addendum: If only the Sideshow folks returned in a notable cameo role in later shows, especially if they ended up as entertaining, morale raising positive role models to the besieged public eye and a good foil to the Justice League's unusual reputation during, say, the crises of the Thanagarian and Apokoliptian invasions plus the CADMUS debacle.
I LOVEd this version of Croc. It’s a shame they didn’t do more with him. Still, Aaron Kincaid killed it
Yeah, he was great, and I too prefer this original design. Much more monstrous than the TNBA design.
The thing that always amused me about the "I threw a rock at him!" Scene is that, in a way, it shows that he is more intelligent, or at least practical, than the others. They all have long complex plans, but Killer Croc is the one who actually came closest by playing to his strengths, literally. He took the most expedient option, and the one that had the best chance of actually doing something. The worst that can happen is he misses, as with a 'really big rock' even a glancing hit would seriously inconvenience or injure Batman. So it almost felt like Bats giving him proper respect in a way that the other crooks didn't or couldn't.
Killer Croc knows who he is. Ruthless and direct. Like a very large thrown rock.
Personally I always headcannoned that Batman was telling a story of an encounter he had with Killer Croc that he remembered. Maybe to him that WAS the time that Croc almost got him.
it's a graceless plan but it's a lot more efficient then most of the rogues gallery
Boring But Practical.
And that also exposes the problem with most villains when it comes to dealing with heroes. They always gotta make a grand spectacle out of it. Happens again in the Justice League episode, "Secret Society" when Gorilla Grod and his gang defeat and capture the League. Grodd wants to save the heroes until they can execute them all in front of a large audience. *Clayface (a former movie actor) tells him what a TERRIBLE* idea that is as that's how the heroes always escape in the end, and to just kill them now.
@@PrinceSilvermanein Side show, Croc literally almost kills Batman with a big rock. So my guess is that was what Batman was referring to lmao
It's like the one time in the Justice League cartoon, where Joker finally gets the drop on Batman by just sneaking up behind him while he's watching the rest of the Legion of Doom and just hits him over the head with a bag full of metal toys. Didn't need exploding fish or what have you for that.
In Sideshow, Croc clearly isn’t used to being treated kindly. He’s rude and manipulative towards his benefactors, but there are scenes where he seems to struggle with pangs of guilt and hesitation that are foreign to him.
Most “failed villain reform” episodes spotlight characters who are very articulate in specifying what they want for in life.
Croc is so used to living as he does that he doesn’t even seem to realize what he’s been deprived of. Displays of hospitality and human connection may not reform him, but they still affect him.
You can’t help wondering if he’d warm up to the other former carnies over time if Batman hadn’t shown up.
I do agree it's totally possible that he would eventually have been able to be reformed through that kind of community support.
Maybe I’m cynical, but I think his true self would have come to light, sooner or later.
@@HMNCLunar very likely. He does hesitate for a moment though.
I'm of the mind that Croc was gonna Croc with or without Batman, but there's one other thing to consider: Croc was dodging a jail sentence when he found the performers.
Not only should Croc have been brought in to uphold law and order and give justice to the victims of his crimes (which, knowing Croc, may have been killer), but if his reaction to Batman coming was to grab a rifle and try to snipe him, then he likely would have been a ticking bomb that would get worse as his fears of being brought in grew over time. If Croc carried out his jail sentence and behaved himself, he likely could have been released and then return to the performers a free man and start over earnestly. Croc didn't want to, though, so I think he always would have been selfish, even if now surrounded by friendly faces.
That said, it really is tragic seeing Croc lose a life that could have been good for him, whether he rejected it out of panic or greed.
@SerumLake Maybe I'm riding the same cynical cycle, because I just considered that whether Croc was always going to betray the performers or not...he was dodging a jail sentence. Poor Croc for losing a second chance, but what about "Poor Croc's victims, who may be dead?" He certainly could have reformed in jail and return to the performers after release, but I think his scheming to take the money and resorting to violence when Batman arrived are proof he had no interest in turning things around.
Throwing a rock at him was smarter than the overcomplicated plans that all the other characters did. It was just as effective without requiring a ton of equipment and planning.
So Croc being viewed as dumb is kind of like how Super Friends ruined Aquaman’s reputation for years. The difference is that Croc’s line isn’t even his own.
Justice for Croc and Aquaman
HELL YEA!
Aquaman and Hawkeye are Actually some of my Favorites
Aquaman is King of the Ocean
Guess what makes up about 70% of the Earth?
I think that the most important part of Croc is the "I only think for myself because no one ever did" and he became less and less sympathetic as time went on, sort of a "he was treated like a monster and so he end up becoming one" type of situation. A good interpretation of Croc should have this basis to guide the character's actions.
There's actually a fun alternative way to view the "hit him with a rock" thing.
See, while the original line was spoken as Batman, posing as Killer Croc, we have no reason to believe that this event DIDN'T actually take place. In fact, while Croc mentioning it during the trial is almost certainly a callback, it also further solidifies that the rock event did, in fact, take place.
This implies that Batman views the rock event as an ACTUAL threat to his life. Hilariously, this means that despite all the convoluted methods of murder that his rogues gallery have attempted through the years, all the fear gas, Joker toxin, giant coins, deadly vegetables, and etc, that one time that Killer Croc threw a rock at Batman was the most legitimately threatened he'd ever actually been. He must have thought to himself "Damn, if that rock had landed even an INCH to the left, I'd have been killed for sure!". And that's just... really funny to think about.
imagine him telling everyone that he considers croc his greatest enemy jsut cause he almsot killed him with a rock once.
@@sarafontanini7051 just fuckin yeets like a javelin, imbed the thing in a wall about 5 mm for bat's face
I personally love his story in Joker's Arkham where he escapes and becomes a right hand of mob boss who treats hime like family, only to get manipulated to destroy everyrhing. His parting line " I am not the monster, they are. Put me back in" is heartbreaking in so many ways, saddest being he prefers the cold treatment of Arkham over having to have his hopes destroyed again
Yes, that’s a really good one.
@@SerumLake Yeah I would love for that to be the standard for the character, I think it has what Batman's rogues gallery is missing
I love Killer Croc. He is my favourite Batman villain, but most media usually portray him as an evil sociopath with very little sympathy. I know he was only pretending, but one moment in sideshow shows Croc briefly hesitating stealing the money. It is a blink and you'll miss it a moment but it is there. The exchange between him and Billy was sad. He almost sounded ashamed of himself, like there was a part of him that wanted to stay, but his bad impulses ruined everything. Croc was a very dangerous villain on the show, but I wish they had actually revealed his more sympathetic side on the show. In the comics, Croc becomes more tragic over time, to the point where he actually turns anti-hero a few times.
Even in the spinn off comics of TAS, the writers explored the sympathetic side of the TAS version of Croc in 2 issues (one of them involving Croc falling in love with Summer Gleason). Honestly, I think the adventure comics were better than the animated series sometimes.
Yeah, the adventures comics were really good. In some ways I like that Croc is almost entirely irredeemable, and is just a bad person. When presented with the opportunity to start over in Sideshow, it really didn’t take much to tempt him back to his bad behaviour. He couldn’t even keep the facade up for a whole day.
Course, it does bug me that Killer Croc in the tie-ins is less of a confirmed murderous crim in some issues, only to be back on that depiction in others. Really makes it hard to root on which of the tales are canon or not to the rest of the DCAU adjacent stuff.
I really like Croc, he's a big brute but he had some moments where he's smarter than you'd give him credit for, like framing the cop, but also in Sideshow, he knows to steal Batman's belt and even where to find the knock out gas pellets to use on the other freaks. So I like to think that "hit him with a rock" like from the trial was Croc hearing about Batman's shit and wanting some ironic payback by beating him with a rock.
Always liked this scene from Croc's episode with Baby Dahl.
Judge: This court finds you capable of murder and legally sane.
Croc: Capable? I'm as good as it gets!
Even in arguably its weakest episodes, you can't help but admit that every single DCAU episode has at least one gold quality series of character lines and neat voice acting.
3:16 Not quite. While yes, Croc was never protrayed as the cunning criminal mastermind he was in his first apperances as there were writers who portrayed him as just as dumb big monster for Batman to punch, there were also those who portrayed Croc as more sympathetic character, a misunderstood monster who just wanted to be left alone.
One the best exemple is "Requiem for Killer", from Batman 471 in 1991 (which Sideshow takes alot of inspiration from by the way). Much like in the episode, it focus on Croc finding a family, in the case with people from a underground shelter. The difference is that, in the comic, Croc doesn't lie. He truly bonds with the people and treats them like family to the point he help Batman to save them from a flood. The comic even reveals Croc has nightmares, of being chased by Batman and sent to Arkham were his is victim of torture and abuse, making his anger towards the dark knight much more understantable.
I did consider mentioning that comic, but it came out after Croc’s first appearance was written (but you probably saw I did use the cover - never can turn down the opportunity to use some Norm Breyfogle art!)
I can see some similarities with Sideshow, but the episode was based on Detective Comics 410 by Neil Adams and Denny O’Neil. The story involved Batman chasing down an escaped convict who stumbled upon a group of former circus people living in the woods. Billy the seal boy and Goliath are ripped straight from the comic - if memory serves Richard was as well, but it’s been a while since I’ve read it.
There was also a comic where he lived peacefully with Swamp Thing in a swamp until Swamp Thing started hitting him because he was distracted by his duties to The Green so Croc left the swamp.
@@SerumLake It's mix of both, very similar to the Laughting fish episode, which takes inspiration from the comic with the same name, as well Joker's Five revenge storyline.
@@Xehanort10 Yeah, and the interaction between Swamp Thing and Batman are very good dillema about what justice truly is, with the hero wanting to arrest Croc so he pay for his crimes while the guardian of the green belives Croc should stay on the swamp where a animal like him belong.
Another great Croc stories is the one from Joker Asylum, where he's rescue by couple of mobsters and is manipulate by the woman to kill her husband.The best part is how Croc doesn't even speak until the end of the story, highlighting the humanity of the misunderstood reptile monster.
@@alexandrefrauches132 That story of Joker Asylum is heart wrenching
Being reminded that it was Bruce who came up with the rock story is just hilarious.
You know, the "I threw a rock at him" scene is funnier with the context that Croc was Batman in disguise. Because it means Batman couldn't think of a better Almost Got Em story... or that he wanted to draw as little attention to himself as possible; and thus made his story very short so he wouldn't hold the spotlight very long.
Great point! And it's sad that none of the other villains think that this is out of character for Croc either. Shows how little they think of him!
I like to imagine that Batman was saying what actually happened the most recent time he apprehended Killer Croc, just before that poker game.
there is a theory i saw that posited that croc DID almost kill batman by throwing a rock at him in a quarry, and it was notable enough to batman that he rememebered to recount it in the episode.
@sarafontanini7051 that is the sort of thing I meant with my comment. I did not realize it had that much traction online.
Or he was insulting all of the villains around him by pointing out their schemes are to complex and that killer croc was the guy who really almost got ‘em.
I love how DC regularly has ways of redeeming characters that have been trashed and humiliated. It's like they care not only about their characters but about how the fans of those characters feel. One of my favorite examples of this is in the famous Knightfall series. Much like the animated series, when Bane is introduced, they wanted a way to show how dangerous and competent he was in a fight, and just how strong his venom made him. This was done by having him brutally maim Killer Croc, leaving him crippled and humiliated.
But it didn't end there. Of course, if they need to establish Bane as dangerous, they need to maintain that Killer Croc is dangerous, and having Bane destroy him easily would undermine their purpose. Later on, Bane chases Batman into the sewers, where Killer Croc spots them, having healed up from his previous injuries. At this point, he barely cares about Batman, and has a serious score to settle. He ambushes Bane, allowing Jean Paul to escape, and fights Bane in HIS territory, where he can show why you don't mess with the Croc. He also isn't stupid. Killer Croc is observant, and he knows how Bane was able to defeat him before. This time, one of the first things he does when he ambushes Bane is break the venom controller on his wrist, leaving him unable to juice up. He then goes to give Bane a thorough walloping, using the sewer environment to his advantage, and forcing Bane to retreat, knowing he can't win. Yes, Bane was established as dangerous, and he soundly defeated Croc the first time. But Croc redeemed himself, showed he wasn't a brainless brute, and let Bane know he isn't the only big bad in Gotham. This undoubtedly was a conclusion satisfying to both the fans of Bane and Killer Croc. Bane continued to be the main focus of the comic... but he never dared go into the sewers again.
It wasn't the really smart plans of some of the other villains but Croc planning to kill Spider Conway and Joey The Snail for testifying against him and frame Bullock for the murders in Vendetta was quite cunning.
In all fairness the other villains didn’t become suspicious of Killer Croc after he said that, implying that that would be in character for him.
Further more in the episode, “Trial” Killer Croc says, “hit them with a rock!”
Yeah, that is entirely possible. However, I take it to mean that they didn't think much of his intellect. And the line is Trial is Croc letting Batman know that he's aware of the impersonation. But maybe I'm overthinking it.
I will never NOT find it absolutely hilarious that in ‘almost got him’ Batman disguised as Croc says he almost got him with a big rock, and later in the circus freak episode he attempts to kill Batman…by dropping a big rock on him, lmao
And the fact he was SO CLOSE to succeeding if he weren’t pumped full of ridiculous amounts of tranquilizers
There was also a great new batman adventure episode with him teaming with baby doll. It once again shows Crocs selfish uncaring tendencies harming someone who might genuinely care about him.
This deserves way more views. Killer Croc is a top 10 Batman villain and DC villain. He’s a total badass beast.🐊
I like to headcanon that Batman wasn't trying to make Killer Croc look bad. He earnestly meant Killer Croc throwing a rock really was the closest anyone got to killing him.
Just founded this chanel
But I stay for more.
I love how croc introduction fell like horror movie huge jaws vibes.
Also love how you cover the villian original aperences in comics.
Thank you! Finally I'm putting 30+ years of useless knowledge to good use :)
Btas Croc isn't stupid, he is just a brute, when his carefully planned revenge failed, he decided "Forget convoluted plans, I'm gonna go for the quickest route to victory, killing"
Great video! The original Croc saga that culminated in Detective 526 is one of my all-time favorite storylines, especially the buildup, as the climax is, though excellent, in some ways a letdown, I think, that doesn't fully resolve all the storylines they had been building up (Dick questioning Batman's attitude in volunteering Jason's parents for as deadly a task as tailing Croc, Batman's growing cynicism and anger, expressed when he told Dick off for his concern over the Todds, going so far as to say that he was sick of citizens not doing their part, the idea that Batman was somehow intimidated by Croc and how the writers were going to believably have Batman overcome a villain who had decisively beaten multiple times at that point), but it was still great. I actually think that Knightfall was probably lifted from it many ways; Croc was the strongest foe Batman had faced, he systematically took over Gotham crime, he pushed Batman further than ever before, during the course of the story, Batman had to face essentially all his foes and in both cases, Bane and Croc beat up Batman enemies to prove how tough they were, with Croc ironically jobbing to Bane the way Catman and others had jobbed to him in 526 (albeit off-screen for the most part). Anyway, great video, great analysis and you've got yourself a subscriber.
Thanks so much!
The best part about "i threw a rock at him!" Is thar out of all the flashbacks.....hes shown to habe gotten the closest with Batman barelly escpaing by the skon of his teeth more so then the other stories.
I think its Batman stating it was the closest hes ever come to being taken out and it was by the simplest most straightforward plan wothout any confultatee mechanisms or showmanship. Its hard to outsmart a mass of pure kinetic energy.
4:01 I can say this design is more simple than drawing almost 100+ scales for 1 character and then animating it
When I watch the episode sidshow Killer Croc he should have realized that he had a new family people for how they look. If Batman never finds Killer Croc I'm pretty sure Killer Croc would have suggested a new family he would know what love is and he would know to say maybe it's time that he won't kill people. What Sad me the most is that when Batman find Killer Croc. And Killer Croc goes back to his own ways again
Yeah, I agree that there were hints that he was going to change his ways, but then Batman showed up!
The 2004 series completely reinvented Croc.
A man who was mutated into a literal crocodile man, Croc was both strong and cunning. Prone to dropping southernisms, Croc arrives in Gotham, recruits two thieves into his service, and concocts a clever plan: Reverse the outflow drains in the sewers to flood certain areas of Gotham, so Croc and the boys could rob at their leisure.
Plus, it has Ron Perlman doing a weird quasi-Cajun voice.
Funny thought about "Almost Got Him"? Batman might be relating a real encounter he had with Croc to be more convincing. Meaning amidst all the elaborate, crazy scenes the villains relate about almost killing Batman, Bruce thinks some time Croc got lucky with a boulder was the closest time he ever got to being taken out.
"It was a big rock." :C
In the arkham verse he did find happiness with a sideshow earlier on his career....but then they were murdered by mobsters. Croc is implied to have killed the mobsters (we see a picture of him walking away from a trash can with a hand sticking out, while croc says "and i never forget a scent")
I threw a rock at him is a slight jab to his villains saying that the closest he almost died was as simple as that
It’s kinda sad that an objectively hilarious joke (in the fact that it’s funny without the context of Batman and with it as it’s how Batman sees him) has coded everyone’s perception of him in the show
Such is the double edged sword of memetic mutations, and the occasionability of someone only seeing notable clips of the DCAU with little proper context during their lifetime
If you want a rather oddball, but still really good Killer Crock story from the Batman TAS universe, check out Batman Adventures #7, which shows Jones returning to his underground wrestling roots. While the tone is cheeky, it does not reduce Crock to a joke, and it's probably the most sympathetic story to feature this version of the character. You really wanna cheer for him through and through.
yeah, I'm a big fan of the BTAS tie-in comics. I've even ordered the upcoming omnibus, despite owning all of the original issues, and having digital copies. I clearly have a problem...
@@SerumLake I was already a young adult when I got into the TAS comics, so it was rather awkward to be into 'kiddy' comics when everyone else in my comics fanclub was deep into more mainstream stuff... but this was the mid 90s! Comics in general sucked, and the TAS comics were consistently good in contrast!
Yeah, those were the years that I really got into comics. I loved Kelley Jones’ art on Batman, and Shadow of the Bat was usually a good read. Outside of those, Batman Adventures was always at the top of my reading list.
I Am Surprised The Crocodiles Of The Sewer King Weren't With Killer Croc!!!!!
I interpret the "Hit him with a rock!" joke differently. I take it as Batman's impersonation in "Almost Got 'Im" was accurate, and Croc DID try to hit Batman with a rock at some point, and in fact we see him do just that in "Sideshow."
I was waiting to hear about the changes and his connection to Baby Doll in the New series. I thought it was an interesting take pairing him with her, you get almost the same emotional pull that you see with the carnies except more potently affecting him in a way
Most of the time I try to keep BTAS and TNBA separate because I view them as very different shows (despite the DVD/Blurays bundling them together) but I did touch upon Love Is A Croc in my Baby Doll video. I don't really care for the episode that much, but I've had lots of comments from people explaining why they enjoy it and I get it now.
@@SerumLake I feel as though the shows do separate themselves, but they rely on eachother enough that the depictions they offer take care of the characters they present for the most part. Enough so that it's worth commenting on somewhat. Similar to how you cover how Baby reacts in a similar manner to herself in BTAS and New, it's interesting to see a similar dynamic with Croc and relationships
I didn't like Croc's redesign. In BTAS he was a guy with a skin condition, but the New version looks like he's actually a human / crocodile hybrid. And he also has a different voice actor, so it almost seems like a completely different character.
@@KasumiKenshirou weirdly croc DOES look more inhuman and monstrous in the comcis sometimes. although that was explained as specifically the Hush plot infecting him with something that altred his condition.
Discovered your channel through this and HAD to binge through all your past Bat-content - incredible stuff all around! If you're ever in the market for some under-discussed Batman stuff to cover as a BTAS fan, nothing ever quite scratch the same itch BTAS did until I found Batman Unburied on Spotify, and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Great work, as usual! Made an instant fan outta me.
Thank you, that’s very kind of you to say. I did listen to Batman Unburied on Spotify and thought it was pretty decent. I remember thinking they took too long to explain the twist, although once Hugo Strange was brought up I had an inkling as to what was going on. It had some strong Perchance To Dream vibes going on!
@@SerumLake Willie watt hates white people
7:14 I always enjoyed that line. It shows that even with people who are like him and want to help him Croc deep deep down doesn't care and will do anything that benefits himself no matter who gets hurt.
1:19 "Falco is a fool and a failure."
"Hey, Einstein, I'm on _your_ side!"
#SerumLake: Great takes on my all-time favorite TV series. Always appreciate the time you take to analyze the ins and outs of what made this show work.
If I may be so bold, I've got 2 ideas for a video on BTAS...
1) How real-world places and architecture influenced the look of Gotham City for BTAS. For all the East Coast American influences, the artists on BTAS had fun throwing in some other urban references, as well. Note how the restaurant in the beginning of PROPHECY OF DOOM looks like a certain World's Fair landmark from Seattle.
2) THE EVERYDAY HEROES OF GOTHAM. From JOKER'S FAVOR and P.O.V., right through OLD WOUNDS, the writers and animators of BTAS did a great job of reminding viewers that ordinary citizens have just as much power as someone wearing a cape and utility belt. The ups and downs these citizens went through are stories that were just as compelling as Batman versus Joker or whatever Rouge's Gallery shenanigans we came to expect from BTAS.
One side note, if possible, could you let us viewers know the name of the full song that you play a snippet of for the end credits? It definitely has a great 60's instrumental vibe to it. Thanks a million...
Thanks for the kind words and for the suggestions! I’ll keep those bubbling away in the back of my brain.
The song is a piece of music called Aptitude from Apple’s free music library.
The "Hit him with a rock" line could simply be true.
Thus batman used that line.
And when Croc says it later, is because he knew it almost worked last time.
Killer Croc: “I THREW A ROCK AT HIM!”
The other bad guys: ?
Killer Croc: “It was a big rock.”
5 seconds later: “BAT MAN?”
Arkham Origins kept the idea that he was an enforcer for the mob
True story: As a kid I remember Sideshow ending much, MUCH differently. Batman still catches Croc, but I recall Croc actually turning good and wanting to live free, settling down with a quiet life. And Batman comes for him in spite of it all, because that's the law. This memory stuck with my so strongly that I thought it was one of BTAS's best episodes. Watching it as an adult years later, I was horrified at how simple and reductive the plot was. The false memory I had created actually made Croc be sympathetic with motivation, and painted Batman as the bad guy. The real version has none of that.
Mandela effect?
@@caranostalgico9249 nothing so exotic. Just faulty childhood memory.
I find the “almost got em” scene very disrespectful to killer croc Batman has very good memory and knows every attempt every villain tried and croc tried stabbing and drowning Batman all almost successful he deserves to throw a boulder at Batman for that disrespect
Thank you, great info about the comic version of the character, I always liked the TAS design of Croc (not much the one in the new adventure though), as for the characterization I think he was well made, but I admit he might've sounded a bit dumb at some points
Honestly, I am shocked that the idea of Croc being a pro wrestler before he fell into crime hasn't become a part of his general lore. There's a lot of potential behind the idea. It can explain his fighting style, how he possibly gained criminal contacts thanks to shady Territory Era dealings, and how he might have been a pain to deal with in the locker room and thus it's not a potential career plan anymore.
I was also pretty shocked that it wasn’t something in the original comics. The closest thing we got was him wrestling alligators in the circus.
@@SerumLakeOn a goofier note, as well as something that might only make sense to people familiar with pro wrestling, I guarantee that if Killer Croc was a wrestler, he would almost certainly be employed by a stand-in for Jerry Lawler.
(Lawler is, after all, a very avid fan of both superhero comics and monster movies, and would often book gimmicks for wrestlers based on these interests. I can't imagine him passing on the opportunity to wrestle against an actual crocodile man.)
That's kind of what I like about croc. He's not a Madman or a tragic victim, he's just a goon who is also a mutant and used his strengths to become effective criminal.
I wish more media would stop treating Croc as a big dumb brute and better explore the notion that Croc has a brain behind that brutish exterior
Like, i dont know. Have a batman series where you have your "villain of the week" formula going on while weaving a subplot going on in the background and ending things off with the reveal that it's all been Crocs doing as he's been slowing taking over the criminal underbelly of gotham through out the show, even throw the audience a red herring by introducing Croc as little more then a big brute at first in a few episodes but have it so that each time Batman beats him he then pulls his own dissappearing act at the end of each episode until he reveals himself as a brilliant long term planner with power and influence to take over gotham without batman realizing it until hes nearly achieved his goal
Ive had a pure channel binge today of 20+ videos….been absolutely fantastic 🦇
Glad you enjoy them!
Croc is cruel
Croc is greedy
Croc is vengeful
And Croc is selfish
That is the perfect way to discribe BTAS Croc. Instead of his comic counterpart where Croc was nurtured into becoming a villain, it's clear that he has a lot of nature in this version. Makes sense. A crocodile's first instinct is to hunt, and that's exactly what he does
His name isn’t just the figure of speech
They should make ‘Never Smile at a Crocodile’ Killer Croc’s theme song in a live action movie (maybe a darker, more ominous version)
While I do prefer his New Batman Adventures redesign a bit more, gotta say his old BTAS design has grown on me.
The bumps, the interesting creepy mouth, the really long limbs, yellow eyes and teeth, and that weird green tinted grey skin
It may be a bit far from my favorite Killer Croc design, but on its own I respect it a ton.
I will always love the original design.
The original makes him look more like someone with a condition while the redesign makes him look like an actual crocodile. I personally prefer the first one, though i understand why people dislike it
Croc. Not a Top Tier Bat Rogue, but a Reall Fun One. When done right.
Agree, I do really like the BTAS version of him
Vendetta has my favorite few seconds of animation in the entire series.
After Bullocks car gets totalled, Killer Croc makes a break for it down the sewer and throws the manhole cover back at the car. It's a split second but Batman gets out of the passenger door and darts back in to avoid getting smashed my the manhole cover. I rewind that part repeatedly.
It was another video from this channel about the times villains almost got Batman that I realized the I threw a rock at him was a reference to the episode sideshow where killer croc did indeed throw a really big rock at Batman and almost got him
Potentially! There are some differences, the incident that Batman describes in Almost Got ‘Im took place in a quarry where Croc was hiding from Batman. Batman was unconscious when Croc threw the rock in Sideshow, but he probably realised that the rock almost landed on his head when he came to.
0:20 damn the joker looks depressed and disappointed ☹️
Honestly, Killer Croc is my favourite Batman Villain after seeing him in Arkham Asylum. His line is so cold but so awesome.
“A toy collar won’t stop me from killing you Batman… I’ll tear you apart, eat your bones!”
Honestly, I liked the first initial version of Killer Croc from the first two seasons. One, i liked his voice, like some countryside criminal, which I thought was interesting to see him try to make a criminal career in the big city of Gotham. Two, I loved his design, which was very different from any Croc design we would ever see later. I actually liked the gray skin, which I think gave him a unique look which would set him apart from other reptile mutant characters which are seen throught different shows and movies. IDK, to me those two aspects made me really like this version of Croc.
I agree that the grey skin just seems more believable than the green scales we see later on. Not that this children’s cartoon needs to be believable, mind you 😂
ironically the grey scales DO match a crocodile's colouration better than green
Killer Croc can be phenomenal as a villain, tragic or just cool, it's just that the DC universe has shifted more in recent years to doing a cosmic-scale event every few years, save for specific series, not much is given to the more subtle at-home villains like Croc save for maybe a reference, a small role or maybe a temporary power-up to put them on par with the other characters for a time, but that's it. Use him with reasonable heroic foils, put him indoors or somewhere there is limited space? Well, while any villain is obviously gonna be scarier in that scenario, Croc is one of the few who can make a TON of use of that space that a more grounded hero just can't. Just look at Arkham Asylum, the sewer part where you have to avoid Croc. Storywise, there's also an in-built tragic element I feel has very rarely been fully utilized, one where you could very much be made to sympathize with the very thing trying to kill you, but then they mostly undo that by having him be overly murderous and/or more of a monster than he needs to be. Imagine if we got an Arkham or really any Batman game set during a riot, where we are one of many inmates, many others of whom had tormented Croc as much as the cruel guards had, who somehow wind up deep in the sewers, with Croc stalking us thinking we are another cruel inmate after, during the riot, several of them tried to kill him, making his motives for wanting to kill us understandable, even if forged on a misunderstanding.
0:20 the Joker's face gets me every time😂
Fuck yeah .We're about that age we're historians like yourself are about to start popping up like crazy from our generation..I love it❤
Thank you!
Before Bane actually broke Batman's back in the comics, Killer Croc wanted to.
I always thought he was a badass!
“What can I tell ya? Being a reptile man ain’t pretty, but it’s got it’s upsides, like having the strength of a crocodile for instance!”
He's one of the few foes in the series that is flat out stronger than batman.
40 years? Honestly, admittedly a Marvel guy, in general ,but, surprised I'd never heard of Croc till TAS.
I've always felt like BTAS Croc owes a lot visually to The Mutant Leader from The Dark Knight Returns
Yeah, I can see that. I remember the first time I flipped through DKR in a book shop as a kid, and I thought the mutant leader was Croc.
Didn't Kevin Michael Richardson, the voice of the Mutant Leader in TNBA's "Legends of the Dark Knight", voice a few Killer Croc iterations?
Comic book origins explains why The Batman series made Croc a mob boss
Yeah, Croc was awesome Pre-Crisis. Then they kind of turned him into an idiot in the 90’s. I personally prefer a smarter and more calculating Croc . I prefer him to be a villain, albeit one who’s not TOTALLY heartless! He should still always be a Batman foe, though .
Killer Croc is my Favorite Batman Villian cause he is just brute force personified and out of the entirety of BTAS he came closest to killing Batman the rock missed Batmans head by inches
5:31 I always interpreted that as him talking about Arkham. Him saying that the Asylum is full of freaks and that he's treated badly. Saying that to make himself sound more sympathetic.
for me my fav take on killer croc like alot my fav takes of batman chars
come from the show the batman from the 2000s
I think Croc has a slow wit, but is really smart on the long term and really cunning
I always wondered was killer croc originally supposed to be a mutant or was it meant to be a skin condition?
It is a skin condition, but that doesn’t explain his incredible strength and ability to breathe under water! I think that the creators of the show don’t really know for sure 😂
I would really like a mutant approach, with croc being a freak experiment who'd escaped, but he remembers being normal once but now no one can look at him without feeling fear, and that makes him lonely.
I would imagine that due to this, he would confine himself to living in the sewers or something.
Idk, probably sounds like a generic backstory i know lmao
@@YUN6_V3NUZ to bee fair this IS the DC universe where a serum made from mongoose blood turned a boy green and gave him shapeshfiting powers, so a sin condition being very unusual and giving a perosn literal crocodile traits would work jsut as well XP
I think how of days he is. A mutant.
I do wonder why they don’t seem to give him a more sympathetic backstory
Even in the comics he was far more sympathetic comparably,
But in the show he was just a scumbag without much sympathy
I have to wonder if the censors may have put a stop to that - subjects like child abuse and racial discrimination may have been off the table, even for BTAS.
@@SerumLake you’d think they could at least do some kind of story about how he was bullied as a kid or can’t get a normal job or something
I’m just thankful that they dropped the “big game hunter bitten by exotic lizard” backstory. Ooooph, that wasn’t good.
@@SerumLake definitely lol
@@SerumLake personally I haven’t read a lot of Batman comics, but killer crock is a character that interests me a LOT
I’ve always liked the “misunderstood monster” trope, and the stores I’ve heard of that portray crock as a villain to even antihero really appeal to me
Although the comics themselves often portray him in a “he’s just a monster guy” role, he just exists purely to be muscle agaisnt batman
It seems like croc on the comics will usually be fairly loyal to people who are kind to him
But it really seems me DC just doesn’t know what to do with him,
Personally? I’d make him a violent antihero protecting Gotham’s rejected and forgotten, somebody acting as a sort of guardian for the homeless living in the sewers, organizing a plan to fight back against some attempt to destroy affordable housing to build upscale condos maybe?
Let croc find a community that accepts him for once that doesn’t end up betraying him
Fun Fact: Killer Croc wasn't originally planned to be a Batman villain. However, Firestorm's comic was cancelled two issues before the Reptile Man would show up.
Killer Croc, Is one of the smarter characters in the Gotham
I find him being in Arkham Asylum in Trial to be out of character, he has no excuse of insanity - he is a violent thug who enjoys cruelty, nothing more nothing less. It felt refreshing to have a rogue go to prison, it kind of made him seem more of a threat.
Arkhan has the facilities to handle him while Blackgate was more for human level villains
@@erubianwarlord8208Also, it is shown that when villains are caught by batman, they are usually sent to Arkham. I think the reason he got sent to Arkham is because he pleaded insanity and the courts are a bit more lenient towards insane criminals.
that seal boy is gonna give me nightmares...
Croc isnt on the level as many other Batman villains in intelect.
But he's neither an idiot nor unintelligent.
Croc is just a man of average intelect in a world of many chaotic and scheeming people, and is facing one of the most intelligent people in DC.
So naturaly he appears stupid and like a dunce among this crowd...
The truth is in this episode that is not Killer Croc, but just Batman in disguise.
Fan: Killer Croc is the first Grey I ever knew on screen in the 90s
Fun fact - Croc's skin condition is closely related to a real one - "epidermolytic hyperkeratosis". It's a genetic disorder that that (and I quote the Wikipedia page) "initially presents with redness, blisters, erosions, and peeling in a newborn baby. Hyperkeratosis typically develops several months later. Other symptoms include itch, painful fissures, body odor, and absence of sweat. Symptoms vary in severity and extent of skin involvement. Complications include infection and joint problems. Affected newborns are particularly at risk of dehydration, sepsis, and electrolyte imbalance."
But Croc's metahuman genes made it so his condition was ultimately beneficial, making his skin extremely difficult to damage rather than being prone to injury.
I think it’s more reasonable to presume that Batman’s impression of Crock was spot on, rather than that Croc was making a clever reference to it after the fact. Batman is a master impersonator and it’s likely he knew of Croc’s affection for hitting foes with rocks.
Killer Croc=The Black Lagoon monster
It was proven in Killer Croc’s first appearance in Batman TAS “Vendetta” that Croc was indeed apart of a carnival sideshow attraction when Batman was doing research on him. So he wasn’t lying when he said he was part of a “freak show.”
Any version of croc would never have been able to lead a normal life, it wouldn’t have mattered who he was as a person, no one would be able to get past his appearance, meaning that in a way he was almost destined to be a criminal.
Actually in Vendetta it was mentioned by Batman that before Croc was a wrestler he was in a Circus Freakshow.
Let's not forget in the comics Croc managed to talk down a suicidal & returned to heroin addicted Roy Harper after his daughter died, to the point Croc literally talks Roy into getting therapy & going to an addicts anonymous group offering to be his sponsor. It's a weird but human interaction I just can't see some huge dumb brute doing
I like the green skinned version of him better.
Honestly, i really like the Killer Croc who is just that awful. That he isnt hurt soul because of his condition. He may be product of his enviroment, but when given chance, he still chooses to scam, steal and hurt.
There are many rouges who are deformed and are bad because of it, cos no one ever believed in them. And im fine with Croc remaining this asshole.
This show shows how i view croc as imo evil but tragic, he’s also a twist on the whole juvie regular turned dangerous criminal archetype. His best episodes imo are Vendetta and Sideshow. Aaron Kincaid stole the show imo, plus he got a reform story in the Batman Adventures comics.
In Batman: The Animated Series, the character’s name was Killer Croc Morgan, NOT Waylon Jones
Depends on who you ask - that name is only used once in Vendetta. Every time afterwards his name is Waylon Jones. I take the view that Killer Croc Morgan was his wrestling name and that Waylon Jones is his real name.
If you want a good killer croc book My friend Killer Croc which revolves around a young boy and croc being misfits it’s really good
He may not be a joke, but he sure is a load of croc.
The stereotype about the south always being extremely racist has been extremely over exaggerated to the point where two of my ex's moved from the north down to the South and ended up in an interracial relationship with me. As the wise man Sir mix a lot once said even white boys got to shout baby got back.
This universe's Killer Croc isn't someone worth homing on well compared to other flashier Rogues Gallery compadres, but one thing I've noticed is that I always appreciated how some of brutish-looking, big guy villains of the DCAU aren't exactly following up on the norms they're somewhat regrettably known for nowadays. Case in point, Gorilla Grodd and Darkseid are not only smart and witty enough to leave memorable impact (and quotes), they're also not stereotypically voiced with unseemly Hulk-like gruffness and growling in mind; thank Powers Boothe and Michael Ironside for that respectively.
And in the meantime, you gotta know the full context of the story and the character before you mindlessly picture them from simple impersonal wiki searches and memetic fandom stuff. Trust me on this example: Terry McGinnis' friend and confidante from Batman Beyond Season 2 onwards, Maxine Gibson, is actually not that completely dumbheaded and scrappy if you've watched all of the show on the proper production order... one who does so will end up missing her presence on Return of rhe Joker, even.
Addendum: If only the Sideshow folks returned in a notable cameo role in later shows, especially if they ended up as entertaining, morale raising positive role models to the besieged public eye and a good foil to the Justice League's unusual reputation during, say, the crises of the Thanagarian and Apokoliptian invasions plus the CADMUS debacle.
"I threw a rock at him"