PENALTY Charge Notices on Public Land (Not Parking Charge Notices!) | BlackBeltBarrister
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- This video discussed Penalty Charge Notices (not to be confused with a Parking Charge Notice which I will deal with in another video. For this video I will discuss where a Local Authority can issue PCNs for cars illegally parked on PUBLIC land. Subscribe for more videos on this subject!
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I got one in a council carpark and decided to have a gamble with £500 only if I have to pay to get my vehicle back, I made a few representations that were rejected but couldn't be bothered with the independent appeal, I'm now 6 months in with a warrant of control and one enforcement agent has called but only acting as a debt collector, I'm really enjoying this challenge so far, resist, defy do not comply
When I challenged several of these against Canterbury City Council, I was informed by the Independent Parking Adjudicator that over 83% of tickets issued in this country are actually unlawful and will be quashed if challenged. All 3 of mine went unchallenged by CCC, as they knew full well they were unlawful and not enforceable, but they hope that most people will be scared by their lies and threats into paying the ticket.
What did you say to them.?
Someone I know actually said for her it is cheaper to pay £25 once every few weeks than to pay £4 for the park and ride in canterbury so she overstays the 4 hour limit in the area around the Waitrose and premier inn in canterbury.
I cut four clamps off on private land , never heard anything about it them , still got two they’re great for my caravan tho 🤗
We don't use wheel clamps. We dump a load of cow shit over the car.
Recycling at its finest. Congratulations to you sir.
A mate of mine had a row with some bigwig in the council over one of his private rented places. I registered my work van in his name and started generating tickets... After a few weeks I parked right on a bus stop and gave the stink eye to a couple of parking wardens... Come back 10 minutes later and they were still there trying to issue the tickets, they were frantic, the computer just said no... After a bit of research I found out that top council bods can put their cars on a list not unlike the diplomatic immunity list... For a year after that I was driving a van with diplomatic immunity, bus lanes, red lights, anything goes.
Looking forward to your video about penalty notices on private land where cctv records you in and out especially in large retail stores
Under law they can only prosecute the driver, not owner or reg keeper and therefore they need a name.
Data protection act 1998 precludes the Reg keeper from divulging driver details and unless the prosecution know who to serve and as you cant be charged for an offence committed by someone else , a case cant be brought.
Me too.
I keep hearing stories about these... Aldi use them a lot and at my local store there is always someone going off at the staff because the camera said the car was there overnight or several nights when everyone knows no car is ever left there overnight.
Received 2 tickets for being over permitted time at retail parks (approx 15 mins each time over the time) they judged on photo entering and leaving, I challenged both and won. As retail parks pointed out as my passengers were disabled with appropriate badges it takes longer to get around and that the retailers themselves would have lost our custom if sticking to said time limits never heard anything back so both got squashed. My disagreement on these private car parks at retail parks obtain their driver detail info from dvla so where is rulings of private info been given out to these sometime cowboy parking companies, data protection means nothing in these circumstances
@@tillybobs2 They would also lose under the Equalities Act for failing to take into consideration your passengers' disabilities requiring that you need more time therefore discriminating against you on the grounds of disability. Shocking. I am sure no supermarket or major business would want the bad publicity this would inevitably attract.
There is really not much hope for humanity, is there?
There is, if can afford to pay for it!
A few years back I received a letter from Birmingham City Council stating that I was being fined for parking somewhere I’d never parked in my life. I duly wrote back to point out their error. The following 18 months went from farcical to sinister. The parking attendant who issued the ticket was dismissed, my car was vandalised on several occasions and all the time BCC insisted I was guilty and ended up threatening me with bailiffs to recover the debt. At this point I stopped being nice and told the executive in charge of transportation that if they pursued this line I would treat any attempt to recover funds from my dwelling as an attempted burglary and that I would use a three foot ornamental sword to defend myself and my property from those attempting to gain entry. Miraculously, 5 days later, I received a letter stating that all charges had been dropped although they still insisted I had parked illegally. Baffling, frustrating and corrupt to the core. To this day, I have received no explanation and obviously nothing even resembling an apology.
My understanding of the appeal process is:
Step 1: you file an appeal with the traffic warden’s company, with a detailed explanation of why this should not apply to you.
Three weeks later the company sends you a standard response saying “we have carefully considered your appeal and have decided it does not apply”.
Step 2: You have to take a day off work to go to court.
Not strictly true! I've known, and been personally involved...in a case which dragged on for TWO YEARS of threats, even visits to my home....all of which resulted in them dropping the case....because I knew they were wrong!
These leeches resort to all manner of threats, BOLD PRINT, in Red ink, anything which may, and often does work. They've even been known to let matters proceed to court...then not turn up to contest the case.
If you believe it's an injustice...fight it but if you're in the wrong, pay up!
My local council still charges for parking with a blue badge in some areas of the town centre. It's got to the point where I have not been in the town centre now for years. In my previous city, I lived in a permit only parking area got 14 tickets and never had to pay any of them as it was due to the council dragging their feet over issuing me a permit every time.
We got PCNs (private) for parking on our 125 years long-leased parking bays by Capital Car Park Control appointed by Managing Agent. They claimed that we failed to display "permit" issued by them. We paid a yearly rent according to the lease to our landlord. We are being chased by debt collectors and now are being taken to courts.
Cant wait to see your video on this subject!
So you are renting the land in effect ? They can do one, surely if you just show up to caught with ya lease agreement they will throw the case out.
How about a vid on the difference between 'Penalty Notice', and 'Fine' and the possible consequence of either if not paid.
I haven't paid ANY parking penalties or parking fines for years. I just don't believe I should have to pay. I pay enough in road tax and council tax so I believe that these should cover me to park anywhere in the UK. I've got tones of notices and letters over the years from enforcement organisations over public and private issued parking fines and I've just ignored them all and never paid for any of them. I've probably saved myself thousands of pounds.
I agree parking should be free but there's no such thing as road tax
Great,do you just return to sender?
@@patrickfitzpatrick6511 Nope. Ignore ignore ignore. But if you're guna commit to ignoring it, don't change your mind once you start getting threats of legal action. It may turn into a debt collectors visit and if you manage to keep your doors and windows locked so they can't enter and start taking control of goods, it'll eventually result in a CCJ. So if you can handle these things, carry on. I've had many debt collectors at my locked door and they couldn't do a thing. I then got a CCJ that stays on my record for 6 years before it becomes statute barred. Which I wilfully accepted in order to keep my money in my pocket where it belongs.
@@stevie-b You pay a tax to use the roads regardless of what it is called it is a tax ergo it is a ROAD TAX
@@ashleelmb A debt collector went into one of my mates houses he was very lucky to be able to walk out of that house and he never ever came back
I love your channel.i love all the things you teach me. And I love your no bullshit attitude.indeed I do! Of course you are not hard on the eyes. What a fortunate woman, your wife,oh I love your accent also. So I look forward to your videos everyday. Good wishes and vibes coming your way ,to keep up your awesome work. Thank you. very bes
Very good information. With the parking on private land there is a Road Traffic Act (1968?) that makes it unlawful for anyone to drive or park a vehicle on private land more than 15 yards from a public road without the owner's permission. Some years ago a significant number of vehicles appeared in our yard and when I asked them to move they said the gates were open, when in fact they had cut the padlock and thrown it away. I went to the local police headquarters and initially was told it was a civil matter but after a two hour wait with discussions going on behind the scenes, an inspector came out and said she would "get the troops out to have them moved". And moved they were. It might be interesting to have a video covering this Act sometime in the future.
It'd fairly different in Scotland, so this is really only relevant to England & Wales.
Never paid one, and NEVER will. Unenforceable.
A mate of mine had a row with some bigwig in the council over work he did at one of his private rented places. I registered my work van in the dude's name at the address as we had keys and started generating tickets for a laugh... After a few weeks I parked right on a bus stop and gave the stink eye to a couple of parking wardens... Come back 10 minutes later and they were still there trying to issue the tickets, they were frantic, the computer just said no... After a bit of research I found out that top council bods can put their cars on a list not unlike the diplomatic immunity list... For a year after that I was driving a van with diplomatic immunity, bus lanes, red lights, anything goes. This was all about 15 years ago BTW.
Quality. I have waited for them to start issuing the ticket and then just jumped in van and drove off before they could photograph it on my windscreen, which is required for evidence.
@@cuckingfunt9353 you registered your works van in a mates name? Did you use a different address?? I dont understand?
@@PilotChris06FW Sorry, didn't write that very well. A friend had a row with his customer, we put the van in the customer's name at the customer's address. The customer had some connections, and it was easier for him to just stop the tickets being issued to the vehicle than to fight all of them once they had been issued. Literally could park anywhere, never got a ticket.
@@cuckingfunt9353 ahhh I see, so was it a council employee with diplomatic immunity? And did he ever find out?
Remember when Charlie Veich was blocked in and prevented from leaving private land. Would that have been illegal under this section of the R.T. Act?
That would be false arrest.
No, that was just unlawful detention and BBB covered that in one of his videos.
@@1peterpope you ought to study English lol
@@1peterpopeTry learning how to spell and speak before schooling someone else. I've seen all the other comments you've left other people. You're less than nothing, you have no value.
@@CableWrestler he just a troll keyboard warrior hard man more like a little bully boy full of bs shame they can't stop assh#@
All of them can do one...just chain your vehicle to something like a pipe at night = they can never tow it....Also keep an angle grinder handy in the boot incase they try and clamp it....
Learn to pick locks, that way you can't be done for criminal damage.
Long story short, I parked outside my apartment but received a notice for overstaying by half an hour. In essence, I fought. Lost. Got stubborn, they sent bailiffs. Still not paying. Finally got a text saying they were attending my property so I offered to pay them in full later in the month. They ignored me, attended clamped, then towed my car, damaging it in the process. My car is worth possibly 25grand, they gave me 7 days or it would go into auction, all because I was stubborn. Cost a grand to get back. They will tow. and they did. Equita enforcement. They have ignored all of my emails saying I want the damage sorting. Moral, I will always pay them in future!!
Many thanks for this excellent and how representation may challenge a PCN via an infraction.
I once got a parking charge by parking eye limited and the carpark had always been free untill recently where they stuck one sign that can be easily missed with a camera on the entrance. I went in there on 3 different occasions and had not seen the sign. A few days later I received 2 parking charge notices for 100 pounds each which at the time and couldn't pay so I had to save up to pay it off. By that time it had gone to court so they demanded 275 pounds. I payed it off a month later so problem solved. Over a year later I then get a new letter in the post involving a 3rd charge demanding 175 pounds. That's 450 pounds in total. I was in that carpark for a grandtotal of 30 minutes over the course of those 3 days. I was only 18 years old and at the time only worked part time. In my opinion this is criminal
I worked for a cash in transit company and often parked on double yellows but there was meant to be an understanding about parking as close as possible to collect cash.We still got the odd PCN but sometimes they got cancelled.
So, the traffic warden who stood in front of my car to prevent me from driving off so he could write a ticket was naughty.
@Nick The thought of filling in more forms put me off.
@Nick I wish he had
A traffic warden tried that with me once so I reversed out and away, see ya! Never did get a ticket.
I’ve had both Jabs Peter. The telly changes channel when I walk past now but on the plus side I get free Netflix.
What's your last name brother🤔
looking forward to your Parking Charge Notices video (private land), just found my mum at 84 years has just had a final demand dated 22june , no 1st demand, she's totally confused over this, as it doesnt even say where the offence took place. she tried to pay £160 online, but was unable to pay, ( she's not good on the internet) .im now stepping into this on her behalf
The first line is to ask for proof of when and where the alleged event took place. If they refuse to supply this and they get shirty you have a potential case for harassment.
In the area covered by Christchurch City Council NZ the VADE model is applied whenever a person responsible for the vehicle returns to the vehicle before the notice is completed. The officer may either walk away without talking to the driver or may discuss with the driver the reason that they were in the process of issuing the notice, without completing the notice.
If the driver is willing to move the vehicle Voluntarily no further action is required. An officer may Advise that the vehicle needs to be moved and failing to get compliance from the driver may Direct the driver to move the vehicle. If all of this fails to achieve a positive outcome the remaining option is Enforcement. The exception to this is if the officer is abused or threatened, and they already have sufficient evidence, they can walk away, complete the notice at a safe location and post out the notice.
We have a site near a football stadium, of course signs are put up informing people this is a private car park and is not to be used for access to the stadium. The reason is once we finish work, the last employee activates.the electric gates and the site is secure, anyone without a fob can not now access the car park or leave the car park. There is no magnetic pad system to open the gates, as the system is a security device not an access barrier.
My daughter has suddenly started getting PCNs for “parking in a restricted street in hours of prohibition” for parking in a car park bay accessed by driving across newly-painted double yellow lines. Her car is not overhanging the street, not overhanging the double yellows, but the kerb around the 3 or 4 parking bays now has double yellows, so you cross them to get to the parking space. She has just become a mum and is tired and stressed so this is really upsetting her - so far 4 tickets at £70 each! It seems mad that this can be correct - if so every driveway on roads with double yellows is unusable surely?
Interestingly in Australia wheel clamps are illegal for vehicles you don't own, effectively car park operators & city councils can't legally clamp vehicles.
That might depend on the State. I'm pretty sure it is not illegal in Victoria.
@@turbo.panther That doesn't surprise me, some laws in Victoria just defy common sense, like you can be rear ended by another vehicle & be ruled to be at fault. In most other states it's the person who does the rear ending(unless the car in front reverses) that is at fault, it is your legal duty as a road user to drive to the conditions & leave a safe following distance, While it is not recommended that you stop the car for trivial reasons, it legally doesen't matter why the car in front is stopped, if you hit it that is 100% on you.
@@milksheihk The current Victorian position is that if you rear end another vehicle you will generally be considered at fault. However, if the crash was unavoidable, eg the vehicle ahead suddenly swerved into your lane, the fault may be placed on the other driver. It depends on the facts, and the percentages of fault will usually be decided by insurances companies or a court.
Please can you describe what constitutes "parked" especially in terms of people or animals in the vehicle.
I took that to mean a non mobile vehicle or a vehicle not currently in motion. So the bit about being parked with engine running is a no win as you have to start the engine before the vehicle can be moved.
Got a PCN affixed to the rear seat of my motorcycle which is made of a special material to keep it dry in the rain. When I came back to my motorcycle I found the PCN under the bumper of a car nearby and decided to challenge it since it wasn't appropriately 'served'. Challenge was rejected, apparently them having a photo of it on your vehicle (regardless of how well it was attached) is sufficient evidence for them, even if there was no attempt made to prevent the notice from being removed either by nature or another person.
It sounds like I may have shot myself in the foot in this case by picking up the PCN. In the future I will take a photo of it as evidence that the notice was not properly served and challenge it if/when I receive a letter by post.
a notice is just an offer of contract ? when they "serve" you they are waiting for you to reply. if you dont reply within the (28days usually) it taken as consent to contract with them. (in law silence is taken as consent as we are all competent to speak for ourselfs) and you agree to pay them money. send back a "notice of conditional acceptance" agreeing to pay the money if they can prove that a valid contract exists between you and them wet ink signed by both partys confirming bilateral consent... obviously they cant provide you with this and you win it really is that simple. if it goes to court you will win every time
@@sonnyward2426 that is not true in the case of a Penalty Charge Notice, and is only applicable to a Parking Charge Notice
If you get a ticket, pay it over the phone, then call your bank and tell them you've been pressured to pay it. They will give you your money back and its up to the parking company to get the money back. They will have 3 months. If they don't challenge it your in the clear, if they challenge it , its down to you to challenge it. I ended up in court, and judge threw it out.
This might have worked for you but I wouldn't advice doing this as it will likely amount to an offence in its own right and many judges will not be so kind.
Namely you violate s2 Fraud Act 2006 since Dishonest only means that a reasonable person thinks its dishonest which most will, and misleading does not need to be literally false. The section reads:
(1)A person is in breach of this section if he-
(a)dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b)intends, by making the representation-
(i)to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii)to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2)A representation is false if-
(a)it is untrue or misleading, and
(b)the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
(3)“Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of-
(a)the person making the representation, or
(b)any other person.
(4)A representation may be express or implied.
(5)For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).
Section 1 of the Act makes the maximum sentence 10 years, a fine, or both.
@@PCDelorian this was a rough outfit, agents had criminal convictions, and I wasn’t actually parked on private land. Fight fire with fire.
@@stevemcilroy9518 like I said in your specifics it may have been exactly the right thing to do, however, I'm saying others should be cautious as it may attract liability if done generally.
@@PCDelorian agreed, point taken
@@PCDelorian It would be paying under threat though wouldn't it so not really misleading or a falsehood. If you don't pay you will be harassed. Though I guess it would be for a court to rule on that.
4:22 - we no longer have to display a permit in residents' parking zones - our permits are now virtual [but that doesn't stop those without a virtual permit receiving a penalty charge notice!]
It’s unlawful to fine someone before they have had their time in court and tried!
I always wait for the letter demanding excessive amounts of money to land on the doorstep, then I cross out my name with a pen or stick an address label over it and write the words No Contract Return To Sender, then I pop it in the post box no stamp required because we are governed by consent statute and acts require me to consent, no signature no fine I refuse to contract with them
Thats exactly right Chris and i have just commented on the same before reading your post.. It works every time.
A neighbor got a "Parking Charge Notification" from some cowboy parking enforcement firm running the car parks at a local shopping mall. It was one of those free parking for 2 hours when shopping jobs. What had happened was he walked out of the store then back in again as he'd forgotten something so has not got back to his car 15 minutes after he first walked out. He had the proof (a receipt) of exactly that. They were calling him and writing letters a couple of times per week and would not stop when I stated to them that legal action would be taken for harassment if they did not stop. I put together an accurate timeline with documents (letters sent by recorded delivery) to prove it while he found a suitable solicitor. The judge was to say the least "not amused". In fact he stated in the court something like "I am not in the least bit amused by the treatment of Mr X at the hands of your company" or words to that effect. He awarded damages plus costs. So instead of getting £200 out of someone or whatever the amount ballooned to they ended up several thousand out of pocket.
@@gordonlawrence1448 Simply ignore any communications as you are not obliged to answer their mail, simply put a cross over your address and repost with NO CONTRACT RETURN TO SENDER written on the front , without a stamp. That will cost them around £1¬50 each time.
I have been fighting these companies for over a decade and have never paid one and indeed, drove one company out of business by posting the above on their website.
Mmmm - I went to do a quote on a property in a residents parking zone, not noticing or realising this - and was there for 20 minutes and received a ticket. I appealed as I thought no problem I'm on legitimate business, and produced photos of the work etc. My appeal was rejected - was this just and fair? I did pay up. Great video about a thorny subject!
I loaned my car to a friend. A long story but it got clamped outside his house because the road fund licence had expired. He was hopping up and down and using lots of language you wouldn't repeat in front of your Mother. He gave me the phone number on the ticket which I rang. The nice lady said that I had to pay all road fund licence that was due and then she would connect me with 'Tommy the clamper, and after charging my debit card she put me through. Tommy the clamper said it was £120 to have clamp removed which I also paid with my debit card over the phone. He then gave me the number to appeal to DVLA as there was an anomaly. 6 mins later the clamp was removed.
My friend inquired as to how I had managed to have the clamp removed so fast. I said 'Easy, I was nice and polite and gave them £400 !.
Money talks !!.
Respects to 'Tommy the Clamper'.
There is no Legislation allowing Parking companies or the Residential Management to fine their residents, whether those tickets are Self-ticking or by warden attended the side. The Authority for Eye Parking does apply to Public places but does not apply to Resident.. many Judges do not know this and the Parking company are fooling the court and the Residents when the matter goes to court.
They are simply an offer to contract, null and void them, rescinding them to the status quo ante, destroying that offer to contract.
No one can force you to accept any contract if you know who sent you any correspondence by Mail, it will always have a return address on the back, so, what I do is on the front of that envelope top left is write "Refused," and send it back, if you refuse service then there's no contract.
If they can force a contract on you, and it's either legal or lawful, I would be doing it myself, beats working for a living.
Always challenge Penalty Charge Notices ! I have successfully won 6 of 7 PCN's I've received from Local Authorities.
Latest win was today - PCN for not displaying a Parking Time Disc in a Disc only bay. I didn't have a Disc and there was no where local for me to get one from so I clearly put a piece of paper on my dashboard with the time of arrival on it. It was a PCN Code 35 not displaying a disc in a disc only bay. I appealed stating I clearly displayed my arrival time and did not deceive the Council from any payment as it was a free bay to park in.
Email back today to say the charge had been cancelled.
I just wanted to say that your local authority has got incorrect information about contravention "05 - Parked after expiry of paid for time". The observation time is not 5 minutes. It is 0 minutes. However, there has to be a "grace" period of 10 minutes. So, if the CEO gets to your vehicle and you are only 1 minute over the expiry time, they cannot issue a PCN; but if they get to your vehicle and 15 minutes have elapsed since the pay and display expired they can issue the PCN immediately
In NZ Parking Enforcement Officers have a third option to serve the notice, and that is by post. Because in addition to issuing to parked vehicles we are authorised to issue to vehicles driving in a bus lane or bus only lane. We can carry out this duty by means of fixed cameras or by a mobile camera.
The ability to post out a notice extends to parking offences and enables the officer to disengage from any potential abusive situation without simply letting the perpetrator of the abuse off the notice. The evidence of the offence needs to have been gained and the explanation for posting out the notice needs to be provided in the officers notes.
The notice can also be posted out if there is a printer malfunction, which occurs in severe weather and simply when technology lets the officer down.
Notices are always posted out to registered keepers where the offence is having no plate affixed, this is in order to ensure the vin number recorded matches the vehicle description and that the notice goes to the correct person.
Great information & advise. Parking on private land causes a minefield of confusion, best kept for another video. 👍😀
I got about 14 parking tickets in Glasgow in the past 2 years, appealed them all and they all got cancelled by the council. So now I get free parking in the city center! happy days!
Although many car parks allow free parking for solo motorcycles (without a sidecar) many also charge. A problem I have is where to display my ticket? I take it with me but first take a picture on my phone (timestamped automatically) with the ticket and my registration plate both in view. Strictly speaking I could be issued a PCN for not displaying my ticket but could provide evidence that I had paid at the time. It still causes me anxiety though.
I'd be really interested to see similar video on rail ticket infocent
Fare dodgers are scum. They deserve all they get.
Applicable to presumed agents of government a quote from hr wayde “ the crown itself have little or de legal powers except in the capacity of employer “
I like how you have slowed down speaking 👍
Thanks yes I realised I might speak a little quickly, force of habit! 👌
Very useful! Thankyou for sharing on a Friday night,
Living in central London the local Authority introduced residents permit parking in designated bays. The permit at that time costs £150 per annum.
It later transpired that the number of permits issued far exceeded the number of bays available. Would this be Fraudulent ❓
I got one of these on my bicycle once .Just to take the piss it was chaind to a bicycle rack. The intilegence of these CEO's is questionable as in the reg number on the ticket they had written ''bicycle''.
Great story. Didn't happen...
Hi, Can you do a video on littering fixed penalty notices under section 87/88 Environmental Protection Act 1990?
Great channel by the way!
The taffic warderns in my area take phtos of the cars parked before and after the pcn is applied to the windscreen witnessed a few upset car owners.
Have you got a vid on Disabled Parking Bay abuse in both shopping centre car parks and public land? Cheers
If any of you are interested there is currently a petition on the government e-petitions site re the DVLA selling info to parking companies.
Might be worth your signature???
How can you challenge a posted PCN on the basis that the CEO hasn’t started writing? How could you prove that he/she hasn’t started writing it?
I get one ,i don't open it , i repost it back to the parking shop at the council. reserved.
I just got an NIP today for “failed to comply with soiled white line road markings” it has no photo or evidence I can view. I have no idea what it’s about as I can’t remember so would like to see a picture so I can be at peace with myself before accepting points and paying a fine. But I’m told I can’t see it unless I choose to contest the case. If I do contest it then I can see the evidence but at which point if I then plead guilty the fines and penalties will be much higher. I genuinely have no idea about the infraction and seems very in just to say accept our word for it or pay more to see out evidence
You mean "solid". You parked on a road with double white lines down the middle, at least one of which was "solid". This is illegal even if there are no other signs saying no parking.
No driving. Not parking. Don’t know if it means a centre white line, a stop line, who knows 🤷♂️. I got no idea. I’m just supposed to pay the fine and take the points or if I have the audacity to want to see some proof and know where I went wrong so I don’t make the same mistake again then my fine will likely be triple what I can just pay now
Who issued the penalty notice? As you mentioned points i assume that it was the Police in which case a photo should be available.
I got a ticket at a supermarket for staying over there stated time i took into the store and they cancelled it.
Thank you. I shall try this. I didn't over stay I just genuinely thought the car park was free and got hit twice on successive evenings. Now face paying £100 for each.
Parking on pavement is a criminal offense since driving on pavement is illigal however you must prove it was driven on pavement.
Will address on ruclips.net/user/blackbeltsecrets !
The ticket machine had malfunctioned, accepting neither cash nor card, I called the local council office and was told that since I could pay using a smart phone app, I would still receive a penalty for failing to display. I complied, but this seems unreasonable, since many of the older generation would struggle to do this on the spur of the moment. Is there no such defence as having demonstrated the intention to comply, but been unable?
A fixed barrier is lawful authority... so if you have one of those locking barrier posts on your driveway, and someone parks there without authorisation while it's down, does that mean you can legally raise and lock it to block them in?
They're scamming people by sticking the yellow plastic on the windscreen but it's umpty, then they take a photo to prove that they served you with a ticket, this incase you come back to your car quickly, It happened to me, I stopped at tescos to buy jus a bottle of water paid in self scanning so I was about 2 minutes, when I came back to the car I found the warden taking photo of pcn,I told him he should be cleaning toilets is more decent than what he is doing, anyway when I got home it was empty only the plastic was stuck on the windscreen, I never paid it, I dragged it until the court could not enforce the fine.
A question for your PCN video when you make it: a parking charge is an invoice requesting payment (not a penalty) therefore should attract VAT. But no PCN that I have seen has had VAT added. Surely this is an offence under VAT laws?
Is it law to break down the vat? Is a vat number at the bottom enough?
@@breachofthepeace1829 NOT...according to the bills of exchange act...1888
There is no mention of Vat or VAT number on a PCN.
@@etiennelabeille - a simple search on Google will inform you that there is no VAT charge on Authority land; it is VAT Exempt, and thus does not need to include or even refer to VAT
@@danielcrafter9349 I was referring to Parking Charge Notice for parking on private land.
That video is all correct minus one thing:
A PCN issued on public land is a civil dispute and cars are not parked "illegally". They are parked "in contravention of a particular rule"
Parking on a double yellow or being 3 hours over the prescribed time in a bay does not mean you are parking "illegally" but again; in contravention.
If it were "illegal" the police would be able to do something about it but again- it isn't.
PCN ticket related issues were de-legalized in 19XX to free up police time and to allow petty things like this to be dealt with in a civil manner ie: pay the fine or we'll see you in a non criminal offence court (I don't know the particulars when it comes to legal definitions/buildings)
Source: ex-CEO
The information about it being de-legalized can be found on the internet so I'd advice you to correct that minor error.
I'm afraid that's not true. Something can be illegal without requiring police intervention.
@@BlackBeltBarrister You're the trained barrister not me so I'm not going to argue but unless my training was incorrect then I was told that parking contraventions are not illegal and are a simple civil dispute
We were shown during initial training the document stating that the parking contraventions were de-legalized in 19xx
@@Elliot0666 “illegal” is simply contravention of any law, rule, or regulation
@@BlackBeltBarrister Then I apologize for my ignorance
I can stop grinding my teeth at people calling something "illegal" parking now
I was parked on a farm gate entrance 7 feet from d
Can you do one on fare evasion?
Yes - good one!
What about the likes of lowell and other debt collectors I dont have a contract with them people yet they can take me to court for not paying them
I noticed that fines are at 50% if paid promptly. I thought there was something in law saying that fines could not be increased once issued. Is this a way of getting around that or have I mis-remembered...?
They aren't increasing it after the fact they are reducing it for early payment. A clever way of getting the same result
I was parked in a farm gate entrance in Cumbria I was 7 feet away from double yellow lines and not blocking access to the gate. What is the legal limit you can park with receiving a parking ticket. Thanks mick fox
And what about bayliff clamping owners vehicle on owners own private property? Do they have a lawful excuse?
Hey BBB, how about some info regarding Blue Badge Permit holders?
administrate property without a right who is ??
Who assumes liability for the damages ???
####🤬😡😡 Can you go though the rules of making a successful claim over damages to ones vehicle to the council due to potholes on a public road.
The driver is the registered "keeper" of the vehicle and not the "owner".... the DVLA own the vehicles that are on the road, therefore this is misinformation, also the land that they're parked on (unless it's private land owned by someone) belongs to the public (NOT your council) therefore the PCN is null and void.
my understanding of vehicle 'ownership' is that which is written in the vehicle's Registration Doc., and that is 'KEEPER'. There is no mention of owner. Fines, in my limited experience, are addressed to 'the owner'. Can the fining authority have it both ways?
The ower os DVLA and this is made clear on your Reg Doc.
Another excellent video, informative and well explained..
BUT.........7min...
Having a vehicle in a bright hi viz yellow jacket is not a ticketable offence. Weird Yes. 🤣😅🤣
if you do a video on blue badge parking, don't forget the City of Westminster has its own rules
@@1peterpope no you all ready got one TWAT
I got Penalty Charge Notice back in January. I paid using the app on my phone which is provided by the Royal Borough of Greenwich on the pay and display ticket machine. I did appeal and showed proof of payment, but the Royal Borough of Greenwich rejected my appeal, on the basis, I hadn't put a valid Pay and Display ticket/ Payment to park nor a valid permit was visible on my vehicle. But if you pay using the app on your phone you don't get given anything to display on your vehicle. But the Royal Borough of Greenwich considered the PCN as correctly issued. What can you do in this situation?
notices are just offers of contract im sure black belt barrister will tell you this. send back a "notice of conditional acceptance" asking them for: (a bill signed and dated) and (proof of a valid contract wet ink signed by both partys confirming bilateral consent) both of which they cant possibly provide you with. you will be off scott free..... (this is for any fine or ticket you will ever get in your life time) hope you all have a great day. dont let the pirates win !
I’d like to enquire as to the pay and display ticket. Where would I stand if I paid and displayed on a motorcycle but the ticket was either blown away or removed/stolen? I would obviously have a receipt for the purchase, but if a warden sees no ticket and issues a penalty, what would the process be?
What about parking on double yellow lines that are broken or part missing or have no T bar at the end. Can you legally park on them because the lines are not continuous or is this an urban myth
If the enforcement officer knows their stuff they would not issue a notice, but many would because they hope that the driver will not know the requirements. You just have to get hold of the specifications which relate to the requirements for signage and line markings from the Council. Once they know that you are aware, you may be surprised how fast the ticket is withdrawn.
I bet it changes from council to council.
@@peterpikesley4907 , do you mean the adjudicator at the Council who decides on requests for reviews of the matter, or a Magistrate coming to a decision based on law? Courts have ruled previously that the lines must comply with the specifications, and Council staff should be basing their decisions on those precedents, not on personal bias. If a driver knows that the lines do not comply then there is actually no reason preventing them from parking as legally the lines do not exist.
Round the round circles look I just like to know do I have to pay on private land or not that's all there is to it
In the 80s my dad broke a wheel clamp on his car. 6 months later the police came and tried kicking our front door down to arrest him. 🤣
Well It was that or arresting ppl like Savile and they can't be seen tackling that now can they.
@@toshiroyamada2443 very true!
Parked in public car park shopping centre ..was 20 mins over my time Sunday !..car park empty..only a few cars !..not council owned an usually free on Sunday.!. £60 fine now £160 ..25 letters..3yrs ago !.still gettin letters same reply waste bin..!..threading me etc giving me stress ..help..
give them the owners details as most people are only register keeper, so its mr s hits c/o then a address
Really good video 👍
in others words there is virtually no get out.but what if yr broken down waiting for rescue
And they wonder why there is a divide between the public and authorities!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi there are so many things people don’t know about what goes on I worked in London for many years I can tell you that clamp vans used to get big bonuses for the most clamps issued many cars were taken away illegally with permits and tickets they used to just open the vehicle and move the permits and tickets so they could not be read and when people came in screaming they would take them to the vehicle and show them the ticket on the floor of the car or permits and badges not on display the little books you mentioned would be filled out after the car arrived at the pound there was even photo editing where in some cases the permit was removed from the picture I know this for a fact I done it at the request of managers there was even a period where some removal drivers were taking cars from the estates let’s say near Vauxhall for scrap and pocketing the money it’s not known for how long it was going on but they were asked to leave it was never mentioned or talked about I’m not sure if many people are still alive from this time I can tell you before the council took over the parking the police that wrote tickets were a lot more forgiving and gave people a chance unless the parking was serious or dangerous and sometimes rather than take cars away they would ask us to reposition them in a safe place nearer that time there was a program yellow line on BBC they talked to me and decided there was to many implications to interview me council’s and parking a legal way to do illegal stuff.
Any thoughts on the Fixed Penalty Notices slapped on the windscreen by the Rozzers ?
Eg. they claiming a car was an obstruction (when wasn't), while no yellow lines or restrictions in the area.
I think I heard of that case. I don't have any details though.
Parking is a mine field you cannot hope to cover it in a few videos. It would need its own channel, with hundreds of videos. As per usual the appeal system does not work and it is just a money making racket.
Truly is and in some places like think it's Stansted airport there's a car park where the McDonalds and Starbucks is but they are actually two separate car parks and they don't really make that clear. Thing is if you park in one then go to the other you get a ticket. So it's really kinda entrapment as unless you know about it before you go there you will likely get fined or whatever it is.
Dear Barrister Black Belt,
What happens if a pcn is served by post from parking in private land in England but residing in Scotland. What should one do?
Did anything happen with your ticket or was it written off?
I had a ticket parking on double yellows In s Town that's public place
Could I refuse to pay it
When you make your next video on PCN try to explain charges please. Iv been asked to pay £100 for not displaying a parking permit. It’s private land and a free car park for residents or visitors. I was visiting. My friend who lives there. The fine is £100 + £70 admit fee. What would happen if it went to court. Would I only have to pay the £100. Assuming guilty. It’s the admin fee I cannot understand. Can they get away with a £70 admin fee. Either way I’m not paying it.
I have private car parking,for shop customers,right outside my door.There is signage to this effect.On 2 occasions I temporarily parked there as no street parking available,then moved my car after a few hours. My car was not parked in a bay or obstructing,but was parked parallel to my property within 6 inches of my property wall. First I knew of any problem was through the post,as no ticket issued on screen but operative took a photo. Two £60 pcn's were issued,which I appealed,to no avail. The matter went to DRP a debt recovery firm,and fine now stood at £200.I told them not paying and to stop hassling me and take me to county court if they thought they had a case. They ignored me and passed onto a firm of solicitors,who eventually issued me a county court summons,for an amount of £435.43. I duly completed the court papers and got it switched to a local county court,200 miles from the litigator's solicitors.I wanted my day in court and would pay only if the judge ruled I should have to. 3 days before the court date I received a Notice of Discontinuance from the claimants solicitors,they were no longer pursuing the claim.It was a relief as had been going on for nearly two years,but I was determined not to be bullied into paying.A small part of me regrets being denied my day in court,but ultimately my perseverance paid off
@@3999MILES wow. I’m glad it turned out good for you. I think most of what they do is just scare tack tics. I just ignore the letters as I’m convinced any appeal would always be denied. Also no contact is always best. A weird thing happened recently. The letters starting coming through the post in the wrong name lol. Mr Jim coke. I have no idea how they got the name wrong but it’s quite funny.
I visited London then TFL sent me a PCN saying I turned left where it prohibited I looked at the photo and Google i turned right where its prohibitied, I didn't see the sign as I was concentrating on mad uber eats mopeds weaving about , not sure if the PCN is valid still as technically I turned right where I shouldn't but the wording on the PCN says left
I suppose you could write to them and point out that they have created a false and misleading document. You could also use the defence of "unintentional error" or "reasonable but mistaken belief of fact".
I've never heard the law so eloquently put. I have a blue badge, in fact it was in the first 2 months I got a parking ticket. I was half a tyre over the white, loading only road painted sign. I live in a small sleepy Welsh town and was less than a minute going to boots to get my meds. And came back to, a ticket worth more than the old Renault I was driving. Shame on those ppl
In my home town if you are disabled and have a blue badge but use a parking bay so as to minimise road obstruction, you get charged for it. So I find your story consistent with the nefarious shenanigans perpetrated by the council here. Anyone that does not believe you can rearrange the following into a well known phrase or saying - stuffed get.
Just a quick question, Penalty Charge Notice? I thought a notice was to bring something to your attention nothing more, so since when was it acceptable to add a charge to a notice.
Isn’t it also true that a notice can be discharged legally with a notice of your own. Please respond.
The notice is bringing the penalty charge to your attention.
What happens if they damage your car (e.g. the drivetrain) when they tow it away?
What about supermarket car parks, can the CEO ticket you ?
Hi
I got a pcn from the council but it was posted to my home address. The ceo failled to serve the pcn due to not having anything to serve. I drove off and a few days later the pcn letter is posted. How can i word it best for me to challenge it.
Person and vehicle are legalise/ legal terms and do not apply to the living wo/man. Simple, send affidavit of status to relevant body, must be rebutted point for point and in substance (which they cant do!) no need for notary just state, witnessed by father son and holy ghost, he is your witness, do not sign it use an autograph :****: across your thumb print from top left to bottom right
So I return to my vehicle in a car park after pushing my 81yr old uncle to a shop in his wheel chair to find a parking warden hovering around. I was only there around 10 minutes He told me he had put a ticket on my car but some youths had removed it. He suggested that I should approach them to get it back where I said 'is that not your job'? Besides I am 68 so should he be inviting me to a confrontational situation? I drove off picked up the old boy round the corner and went about our day. 14 days later I get a notification from our local authority with 2 photo's showing my car in a car park with clearly no ticket attached. at this I had no idea that this was council land as it was at the back of retail premises? I have appealed it because according to this video I believe I was not served as described I believe that the burden of proof that I was ticketed is on them. A notification does not cut it in my opinion. I know opinions are like backsides as everyone has one but opinion anyone?
I'd say it was never served as if this did constitute being served what is to stop wardens putting it on the car taking a pic the taking it off. You would never know it had been issued then incur other fees or whatever. Surely you have to be aware of the presence of the ticket like seeing it on the car.
@@toshiroyamada2443 thank you maybe he never got the time to serve it before I arrived so concocted the story of the theft ?