Are SLEEP TOKEN saving metalcore? (Doc Coyle of Bad Wolves)
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2023
- Doc Coyle of Bad Wolves joins to talk about Sleep Token saving metalcore
Full interview: • BAD WOLVES: Playing w/...
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Finally I can say I was a fan of a band before they were popular! I can be the gatekeeper!!!!
@@thetroubledmonk bro ur true og 🙌
@@thetroubledmonk damn
Same! hehe isn't it weird?
I've been following them since Jaws and Sundowning. None of my friends got into them for being too "out there" and now they're EVERYWHERE xD
@@frankov_83 OMG FRICKING NEW SONG JUST DROPPED!!!
@@PSZEMKI yeap, pretty interesting one too. I'll wait to tell you what I think of it.
I really feel like Doc did a good job showing how short sighted Finn can be atm. When he explained to Finn that they ARE doing pop as well as maybe even that final part. Showing that there very well COULD be new super stars coming. Finn maybe right about rock losing dominance but at times I think it puts him in a position where he too could waive off up and coming bands/artists (specially to the metalcore scene).
Short sighted.
It's because its prog metal meets trip hop(massive attack, portishead etc), sleep token are from Bristol(well the original band were) the two genres the city is known for is prog music and trip hop and they are like a combo of the two.
I've been listening to Sleep Token since their first full length and knew they would blow up eventually. They're trailblazers. Completely unique and will be the first band to successfully bring the pop and metal world together.
Nu metal is very much so pop and metal together. Also butt rock.
It just seems like trying to laid sort of music. Like a alternative version of Trevor Something.
From the first listen I was hooked on Sleep Token. That song was The Offering (off Sundowning). One of the very few bands I drove a long way see in Sept and now will be flying cross country to see in fall. The lyrics, the music (II is a fantastic drummer), the creativity, the live show - all of it. And I have made some wonderful friends through the community. Agree with Doc that so much sounds the same. Just listen to Octane (sometimes liquid metal, too). So many songs run into each other. Anything new will catch my attention. Good discussion. I may not always agree with you Finn, but I love listening to what you have to say.
I think even moreso than their image what makes sleep token special is how they’ve truly mastered pop songwriting and are able to weave their various heavy/avant-garde influences into that sound. it’s almost a shame they get lumped in with the rest of the metalcore scene - like bad omens or wage war are solid and can write a good chorus but they can’t write a sleep token chorus yakno?
Bad Omens and Wage War are also just kind of generic butt-core where as Sleep Token are actually unique and tasteful
Probably the best description of Sleep Token's music I've ever heard. What makes them special... I agree 💯
The thing that Doc nails here is actually similar to something Tank the Tech said in his episode. Tank said when he tours with non-metal bands, the musicians are musicians in earnest, not just metal musicians who really only know how to play metal. What I think makes Sleep Token stand out is that they have that kind of musicianship, wrapped up in a metal package. They have the metal aesthetic and aura and even some metal sound, but there's this undercurrent that fits in with a pop sensibility in terms of songwriting. And I don't think I really realized that before I finally gave in and sat down and listened to their music a few months ago. To me, the metal part of their music is kinda basic (which is fine, pop music can be super basic too), and what stands out is everything else.
They're a metal band? Since when
We need to show finn all their pop songs. Hell brand new one is straight pop
Tati from Jinjer is basically a pop singer in a metal band. Doc just played with her, I'm surprised he didn't mention her.
Never heard of sleep token honestly. Have to check it.
Not to mention the singer from Sleep Token writes and tracks all the songs vocals and instruments besides the drums
Just as an aside, He does most of the time. There are moments where other members have played on songs on various albums. Also Geaorge Lever played bass guitar as well as produced on the "One' and "Two" EPs.
George did a lot of the synths too
Yea it seems to me like Vessel came to George like I’ve got this idea for a project and here’s the general direction and here’s some melodies and maybe a couple riffs and from there on out was a more or less collaborative effort with Vessel taking the lead and George just helping move it along and build it up with layering and that good production/engineering minded stuff
@@bobbytabernacle
Also, Just another aside (lmao), George is II's best friend, And I believe the one that brought Vessel & II together. III is a mutual friend asked to help out after the "Two" EP, And the original VI the same, Mutual friend they offered the spot to.
@@BLeeFAFO ah yes tale as old as time haha seems like you’ve got a lot of the inside baseball info on this band
Doc is a cool dude
its funny that finn asks why they don't release more pop music and the day the video is put out sleep token drops a new pop song
Yes! And it’s great!!
Instantly recognizable? I have no idea who he is
Exactly he's a pop singer for a metal band
💯 💯 💯
@@Djfmdotcom i don't know why but he reminds me of greg from Dillinger, think its because greg can go from those brutal screams to soulful pop music (like he did with black queen and carpenter brut).
It took me a good minute to get around to even try and listen to Sleep Token. But i finally gave in and had to check it out just for the hype, I was blown away.
Finn, I am a big fan of yours. I respect your work a lot. I think you recognise Sleep Token for their success, but you are trying to generate comments on your channels from ST fand like me, attempting to convince you of how good they are. Good work 😂
Correct!
If The Weeknd is the next king of pop then Vessel is like The Weeknd of metal
Nah that’s bad omens
My friend keeps trying to get me into Invent, Animate and I just can’t do it. They’re fantastic musicians but it just feels like I’ve heard all their stuff a hundred times. I’m glad some people are setting new trends, but get ready for 20 more groups that all sound like Sleep Token but won’t be even close to as good.
If you didn't know Invent Animate until someone tried to show them to you recently, then sadly you might not know that they were ahead of the game in terms of the modern sound. I get why you could say they sound like a generic modern metalcore band now. Their album Everchanger from 2014 is one of my favorites of all time, but if I'd never heard it before today, and someone played it for me, it wouldn't stand out in the crowd. It has a lot of similarities to Singularity from Northlane, which similarly didn't sound quite like anything else at the time except maybe Architects. And unfortunately, as much as I still enjoy Invent Animate's music, they haven't done enough to continue to develop their sound to differentiate from others.
@@claytonmitchell5685 I’ve known about them since 2015, and I still think northlane (with Adrian) did it better but I drifted more towards the Prog side instead of the metal core side, and by the time I came back around it just didn’t hit. The new album is great, and I have a couple songs on repeat, but it just feels like a lack of evolution compared to their peers.
@@mesadrums375 I would not disagree with that. It doesn't sound different enough from that old stuff to say they've evolved. And I'd also agree that Singularity is better, but marginally for me, Singularity and Everchanger are very close.
I just heard this full interview yesterday while I was traveling for work, and I said to myself man I really hope they clip this part I'd love to share it with people. Doc's explanation was perfect. Thanks Finn :)
Proof Finn has never listened to any Sleep Token song besides The Summoning and Alkaline lol
Ah man if only you knew! I met them in 2019 on the Issues tour and have worked with the guy who produced their first few albums for years. But go on!
Hah GET REKT!
Thank you for not being gatekeepy. Everyone hates on sleep token, the Drummer is probably my favorite drummers ever. His fills are absolutely insane.
Lol you release this video the same day they release the hottest pop song of the summer!
Bruh, they have their own written language that they drop song titles in 😅😅
Im the same as Finn when I hear other people like a band but I dont I want to know why others like them. Sleep Token for me does lack a certain something (like the "funk" section of the song Summoning just doesnt quite sound right, its like they have never actually heard real funk, they were just explained how it sounds by someone who has). However after watching some live versions it does sound better live, so Im wondering if it was more of a "production" thing.
ST formed out of a trip hop band, the "funk" influence is more inspired by massive attack doing funk(more post punk than actual funk) than say kool and the gang. The production is trip hop style production as well.
I totally respect your opinion. When I heard that breakdown at first, I was thrown off too! It took a few listens before I understood that the whole song flips genres at least 2-3 times.
I wouldn't necessarily call that end part "funk" tho. More like "blues rock" - think the Jimi Hendrix Experience (note: not comparing their *playing* to Jimi, because he's Jimi - but rather the *tone* of the production).
@DJ FM I thought the "funk part" reminded me of Rag n Bone man lol.
@@lewisb85 I had no idea!
Yeah Im not trying to throw shade at sleeptoken by any means. Im just trying to explain (very badly) what I feel when I hear the song 😋. Im sure they have different layers of ideas from what I have... Im just saying as someone with my musical background and taste some of their recorded ideas fall a little flat for me. But the live shows do hit a little bit closer to home. Which is why I think it has to do with current production trends. But thanks for everyone who replied 😎🤙 I love the different takes
Sleep token is the first band ever to make me get tickets in the aftermarket lol. Really excited for what these guys have in store!
Pop-Edged songs by Sleep Token: Sugar, Fall For Me, DYWTYLM, The Love You Want, Mine, Dark Signs... The thing is though, almost every song has a touch of the Pop element.
I love Sleep Token
Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Did this video start with an appearance by the worst type of Coke?
It did indeed lol
Sleep Token is genreless. Although we can hear a metalcore influence in a few tracks, their catalogue as a whole (which is very eclectic, experimental and distinct) is definitely not what I'd call metalcore.
In fact, the vast majority of ST's songs are not even close to being metalcore.
Turnstile is heavy music?!? 😂😂😂😂
1:44 Finn says he gets it. Finn doesn’t get it. He never gets it. Every take he has is wrong. Metalcore doesn’t need “saving”. Metalcore is doing just fine.
As someone who despises metalcore, you are right, it's the popular subgenre and it's literally everywhere
Sleep Token stans are rough stuff!
Their new song DYWTYLM came out today, their most pop single of the new album yet. You’d probably like it
Yes! It’s great
This band has their finger on the pulse. If you listen to ALL their work, especially the hard stuff... as in hard to hear in the emotional/psychological aspects, but you still get it. They found the undercurrent of the Psyche. And they are going in. The generation coming in knows something is really wrong and they are checking out. Because no one is creating a thriving environment so they are either escaping via screen or mommy and daddy are rich, so they might be getting a heavily in-doctor-nation education. They can see all of it. Not to mention the other side of that pendulum religion.
The big red flag country is creating semi smart people and we are turning their brains to mush... Token if you see this, Kudos but you have lots to do, my friends. I see the symbolism and I am living for IT!! THANK YOU 100000 TIMES!
Hey, dudes talking, can you be bothered to look up what Aqua Regia is...
It's on the alchemical element chart: a mixture of highly corrosive nitric and hydrochloric acids that are designed to desolve metals such as gold and platinum. You guys remember what a Google pipe is, right?? Put some stuff in there and smoke it.
The symbolism they use on their masks are mixes of Runes. There is your first homework assignment. Sygils... I want a full report by the end of the week.
This band is pure brain feed. Why do we love it?? At some point, our DNA structure was alive whilst these were popular... it's sweet subconscious nostalgia. Also... some of us just needed a decent soul haunting from the sound... #bringbancheeback
#TheNightDoesNotBelongToGod
You don't need a reddit account to get this... that is the acid that erodes the soul... this is all free for now. Dig in.
With Saturn in Pisces for the next to years, we will find the more uncomfortable emotions alluring and easier to digest. Pluto is going into Aquarius for the next 20 years... knowledge will be the only currency. If you don't know how to grow stuff get in the dirt..get to know your body and how it inner acts with the environment as it is the environment that creates the cell not the other way around. Aka, clean it up... if you don't know how to start a fire without flammable fluid... all that good ol boy scout stuff that is no longer allowed to exist. Not saying you can't jam out to some tunes whilst doing it but, you need to start understanding sustainability not just because it might hit the fan but, do you really want to let people poison you via food into a slow painful money sucking death? Ya. Cool. This is just not for you.
"You can not eat money" - AURORA.
Xoxo!
Why the rant? Metal crew is the best crew, emotionally evolved... can hold space... they get it... well, some of them.. and if it does hit the fan... I would rather sit quietly next to a metal fan than the alternative on a bus full of blown apart people. You feel me? Totally selfish but, hey if it helps 1 grow a garden... and nothing hits the fan. You are still better off than you were b4 you read the post. Boom!
I love Sleep Token too, but how many shrooms did you take?
Thank you Finn, I do not get Sleep Token either. And for him to reference them as a Ghost, which I don’t care for either makes me OK that I don’t listen to Sleep Token.
This guy obviously hasn't listened to ST if he's complaining that they don't do pop.
I’ve tried a bunch of ST songs, but I just can’t get into them cause of the vocals. A song here and there is cool, but it gets too old for me. Talented group, just not my thing at all.
I think fin doesn't understand music as a musician would it's the is undercurrent language he doesn't speak. The also do more classical turned in to modern pallet.
I have played guitar since 1989 and I run a company that teaches music production FYI
@@prmbapodcast Wow really couldn't tell.
The only thing i disagree with is saying these old bands releasing new albums sound different from the current crop of young bands because theyre still using the modern style of production but just adding that to their older styles of playing metal riffs. I wouldnt call that refreshing people are just nostalgic for those old sounds and expecially if they hate the "modern" sound of the young bands will find comfort in familiar territory from when they were younger. Too many absolutes in some of these conversations that totally miss the point of whats appealing about this younger generation of bands. And i know that us fans of the modern scene now will be just as jaded about whatevers popular in metal in 20 years time
Finn not understanding sleep token is so wild to me.
I’m with you Finn, not a fan of Sleeptoken. With that said, I respect their hustle and creativity.
Boring af but I won't hate people for loving them if they want to.
Don't ever be more "pop" unless you want to make crappy template music.
Please stop talking about Sleep Token. You absolutely you have no understanding of the band or what they are trying to accomplish. I love Doc but this is such an uninformed conversation.
"what they're trying to accomplish"..... Making money for their label who in turn hand it off to a bunch of super wealthy shareholders who do absolutely nothing but collect checks off the hard work of others?
I really don’t understand sleep token. They seem so bland and generic. To each their own. :)
Not at all . I bet you’ve only listened to one song lol
@@TonyTunes95 they make music that most people have heard, under the aesthetic of a metal band. I think the primary reason metalcore people are mindblown is because they haven’t heard anything besides pinch harmonics since 2010 lol
@@hamm8934 I've been listening to Sleep Token since 2019 and I really don't understand the bland and generic take. And this is coming from someone who has been burnt out on metalcore since 2015.
@Hamm that's such a dumb take
@@DichotomicDrummer again, it’s a music taste, like what you like! Don’t let someone else’s opinion impact it. But to me, they seem like they try to do a bunch of different styles and do them all mediocre at best but that’s enough because the metal crowd is so closed off to the rest of music that it seems like the most ground breaking stuff in years. Just my opinion on them :) very underwhelming
Also, wish they had any sense of melody or tension and release. Everything is so compressed and droning. Songs just drag on with no conflict, resolve, or peaks. Just noise chunk after noise chunk. Every switch in tempo or cadence is not surprising because their segments are so drawn out. They could and should seriously cut down each of their sections by 4-8 measures because it ruins any sense of wonder of where the song is going since the call is made for like 40 seconds before getting it’s expected answer.
I will say their visual aesthetic is quite neat. That’s the best thing they have going for them.