Praying for Jordan Peterson! He has the potential to be the Augustine of our time, and Bishop Barron the Ambrose!!! So many prayers and already so much grace!
Jordan Peterson? The Augustine of our time? Are you serious? If you think a fascist mystic like Jordan Peterson is the Augustine of our time then something has truly gone wrong. www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/
Same here. I was already fading away from the faith and then had to contend with my priest committing suicide, and then just abandoned it. Dr Peterson was the person who made me realize how life needs a purpose other than being happy. It's then that I realized Christ existed to show that purpose
So happy you had this conversation Bishop Barron! I converted to Catholicism this Easter, and a key part of my journey from rationalist atheism and into the Church was Jordan Peterson. I think the key one for me was when I learned a non-fundamentalist reading of the bible, and learning that the bible could be true, and not only that but perhaps the most eternal truths we have. This was pivotal moment in my conversion journey. And later when I did RCIA I found a lot of overlap between sort of JP's psychological analysis and the Catholic church, except of course that the . Catholic church uses less of the rationalist language, and of course also dwelves deeper into the transcendent/metaphysical realm. What I see here is the hope for a future reunification of rationality and Christianity, and that is I think exactly what is needed to bring young people into the church again. We need a more rational church to emerge. It doesn't have to be the whole church, perhaps it will grow straight out of the Word on fire ministry. Or perhaps it needs to come via the Dominicans, who I find has already done the work needed, the only thing needed is really a popularizer and a movement. Anyway, thank you very much again, and I really think there are few areas where you can save souls as effectively as in this part of the world. And I am personally a living testimony to that.
This is pretty much what happened to me as well. As Bishop Barron put it, Dr Peterson certainly was instrumental in opening the door, freeing me from the "weight of atheistic secularism". Indeed he was that bridge that brought me first to consider, and then to embrace Catholicism.
Peterson is right that “belief in God” is a crushing responsibility than no one can bear. Belief in God should strike us down crying out for mercy because of our failures, and there we find Christ has stepped out in history to be crushed in the crucifixion to be the savior of our ineptness and sins. We respond by tears and gratitude. We stand up and walk in meekness and humility.
Well yes but missing it , if not believe , to the experience of His glory in oneself is so gratifying and eternaly loving.Its that fullfillment The nontemporal unity that we have in The Body of Christ in comunion .So that we can , by loving and forgiving unite to our past and future is so undescribable that we can not explain in anyway near a mere psicological point of view or thought , what is like. and this is just avery small part of it. I mean once one decides to accept Him and learn to get close to Him ( GOD)ever so , will never leave Him. Its glorious . Dare to go for it.
I blame the "feel good" Christians, and the "spiritual but not religious" people. They believe in a Santa Claus God - be good and you'll get what you want. Bleh! 🙄
Enrique, I suppose one could say that "belief in God" is a crushing responsibility, crying out for mercy. I don't see it that way. I see it as an exhilarating love affair with God who is madly in love with me and I with Him.
carmen catalano That is beautiful and true, but you still have to deal with your lover causing Noah’s flood, killing the Egyptians in the Red Sea, annihilating the Assyrian army, and coming back to destroy the antichrists and throw the wicked into the lake of fire. As your love said, “unless you repent you will all likewise perish.” Our relationship with God is a beautiful love affair, but the king loves justice and will destroy everything and everyone that harms his bride. God is not a hippie, not passive, will not stand by forever allowing the bloodshed of his bride upon the earth. Both sides of the coin are our God. He is a kind and merciful lover, but will utterly annihilate sin and the sinners who attack his bride and his kingdom. He does not overlook sin forever. I think understanding the gravity of our crimes against God and the punishment we deserve only make us more grateful to our lover for his saving work. A lot of blood, ripped flesh, and piercing limbs went into his rescue. The danger of sin has horrible consequences. The cross displays that. The future lake of fire underscores that. Our relationship with God is not simply like having an exciting relationship with boyfriend or husband. There are similar elements, but something much more powerful and holy as well. It is a both and thing. We are given intimate closeness, but a reverent respect must also cause us to tremble. As St. John the Beloved who laid his head on Jesus chest at the last supper wrote when encountering the same Jesus but in glory, “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.”
How emotional Jordan becomes when he is asked about God, tells me he does and I believe the Holy Spirit is at work - 'God has got his man'. He is a good, good man and I believe God is working in him and through him.
At this point Peterson had also been dealing with his wife's illness which they believed would take her life. I really appreciate Peterson's strength of conviction to his beliefs and work in such a dark time.
Proud to have you Bishop Barron, a man of faith and reason, capable of discussing any issues with the best minds on earth. So proud of Word on fire ministry! God bless you All!
I am SO looking forward to watching this interview. God bless you, Bishop Barron! You and Dr. Peterson are inspiring and so needed in these troubled times.
Peterson seems to understand the gravity of Christian beliefs better than a lot of Christians I know... But since his ethos is adoption of responsibility, living up to such a belief is the ultimate responsibility.
I agree. I think it's fair to say that, for many "Christians", the idea that they believe in Christ functions in a way that let's their conscience rest content; whereas, for Peterson, the idea that he believes in Christ makes it _very difficult_ for conscience to rest content (and this is much truer to older Christianity, I believe).
This whole responsibility debacle is just idealism ("how can i make myself into god?"), something that is divorced from reality. Doctor or any other man won't carry sins of the world they are to grave to bare that's just blasphemous to say. God himself did that and reedemed whole creation in what is known as His Mystical Body (Catholic Church).
@@Regis596 if you don't accept the responsibility to act in a certain way, then what is the point of saying, "I believe in Christ"? What could possibly be the value (to God or to man) for people to say they believe but without accepting any responsibility for action? It is all too easy to just say, "I believe", but it takes real commitment, _real belief,_ to modify your behavior over a lifetime to be in accordance with your belief. You can fake the faith expressed in words, but you can't fake the faith expressed in a lifetime of actions.
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs You know what, true. Do as you preach, take responsibility, examine your conscience and go to Holy Confession, so that through hands of the priest, Christ will forgive your sins, and you may become united with Him. :)
@@TheLeonhamm Dang, if I committed a sin I'm truly sorry. I definitely see where you're coming from, but your assessment doesn't reflect my intended use of those terms. Would you be open to me elaborating my position so we can explore if I actually am in a state of sin or not? Sincerely, Heath.
In order to evangelize, Bishop Barron (and the Church as a whole) have had to water down the religion - what you term "trad Catholic" - to make it attractive to the masses.
13:00, 'hyperstress on sexual sin'. I do not understand how any relaxation around moral teaching of sexual sin can help realize the heroes' quest to which Christianity calls us. Peterson is right to tremble before the magnitude of the fight we have before it we are to profess belief and identity in Christ. It is the fight against all our selfish impulses. You cannot just wave your hand at the massive harm occasioned by the sexual revolution and the resultant weakening of the family.
It broke my heart to see Jordan wrestling with his “yes” to God. It’s funny because it is Jordan who really helped me understand something of the narrow gate and sacrifice - that before freedom we must go through a constrictive or narrowing period. He used the example of a plumber who first has to go to school to learn the trade so when he comes out the other side he can work, provide for himself and his community. He articulated beautifully that we don’t get to choose whether we sacrifice or not, we only get to choose what that sacrifice is. Yes, it’s terrifying to say yes to God... to take on giving up sin and going to confession etc. But now, I look back and I’d never ever take back my yes. The freedom I have now in my soul is what nothing else I had searched for from the world could give to me. God bless, Jordan Peterson. May we pray he says yes and finds his way back home. He’s so catholic it hurts.... come home!
@@urbanitecrusher5709 He wrote Maps of Meaning a long time ago. I suspect his views can change. If you'd asked me what I believed a couple of years ago it would be very different than the answer I'd give you now. He is a pragmatist so he believes in the intrinsic value and usefulness of universal truths - hence why he is so saturated in archetype... because stories communicate something of truth and have worth. I think he is at an existential crisis point... Am I a fan or a disciple? God bless
@@urbanitecrusher5709 Oh no. Pretending would be the last thing he would or needs to do. BTW Do you know that Dr Peterson is a Clinical Psychologist who has been rescuing people from living a lives of pretense etc?
Askmemakeup It looks like that moment of Grace is evading him. Even if we won't witness of him joining a Church there is every chance of him seen by God's eyes as preceeding us on our journey heavenward.
We must evangelize! To use the logistical and truthful pathways of faith to save the world! Spread the truth! Spread the love! Liberation from suffering! I love you all! God Bless!
"So nice to see the participants treat each other with respect." That used to be normal not even that long ago. It's a shame that our society has become so vile that it is not normal anymore.
Sorry, I may be wrong on your site.But I am looking for details about a sect whose members believe i.a.: When they say certain magical words to wine , this wine will turn into the blood of their god, and when they do the same with cookies, these will turn into the real living body of their god and then they swallow it all, it goes through their stomach and the intestines and turns into faeces which they will then deposit in a restroom facility. Do you have any detailed knowledge about this sect and how do they call themselves?
@@annemburada6265 Hahaha, I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to get at. But have you heard of a sect that only believes in the moon god and disbelieves in the sun god? The followers of the moon god imagine that the light of the moon is independent of the sun only because they cannot see the sun in their darkness?
Bishop Barron, Wow. Thank you for being open to such an engaging discussion. You "teach" all how to discuss difficult topics in a non-antagonistic manner. Dr. Peterson's description (reiterated in my words) of believing in God feeling constrictive....and Church or believing feels like suffocation and takes away oneself...puts one in a box...was do heartfelt. I felt sorry for him. I also think many in the world feel as he stated. I pray one day God's love can be felt by those.
Something needs to be said about the intro and outro music.You guys need to spice that music up with some type of classical music and not some ringtone from the 90's.
I genuinely love Jordan Peterson. His psychological look into responsibility as purpose is so good. The way he you can hear the tremble in his voice about the responsibility of following God shows you how deep he thinks about this subject.
@@donna.g7442 Nah, Christ is not some archetype. He is fully human and fully God, a Second Person of Holy Trinity. It was worked out some 18 centuries ago.
@@unacceptablesisterpeter3431 it means that He is not some "enlightened one" or even " idea" as some would like Him to be. Jesus Christ of Nazareth born of Mary is the final revelation of One and Holy Trinity, Word made flesh, God incarnate. God Creator who set all this world in motion at the begining of time, and loves Man the most out of all of His creation. He loves us to such an extent that He sent His Son to die for our sins and give us eternal life, no man could bare sins of all and redeem all of creation. He released Jews from Egipt, sent them manna from heaven and sprung water out of rock for them, gave Moses 10 commandments and yet was crucified by them.
It struck me that Peterson's avoidance of declaring a belief in God because it comes with having to change one's life to reflect that reality, is much like a fear of commitment in terms of marriage. If you love someone and acknowledge it, it means that relationship comes first, it requires fidelity, sacrifice, dying to self. But what are the rewards? A deep and abiding love that gives meaning to your life! True love helps you mature and grow into a better human being! Joy and strength in times of hardship! I don't think Peterson is yet thinking of belief in God as what it truly is, falling in love! It is the ultimate covanental relationship.
Very true. One can easily see in our current society the parallel between an avoidance of commitment and a poor belief in God as Love. There's a reason the 1st Commandment comes before all else: commitment has to come first.
So true! Peterson has definitely shown no understanding of true commitment or servitude by his actions (teaching/actively engaged with the culture and sacrificing himself) and behavior (responsibilities: being married/having children).
@@JH-ji6cj Are you being facetious? As I understand it, Peterson has been married a long time and does have children. I wasn't casting aspersions on his character, merely noting the parallel between his unwillingness to commit and the unwillingness to commit to marriage that is so prevalent nowadays.
@@faithbooks7906 yes, I was most definitely being facetious. To be in a marriage and spout how much you *know* them (your partner) and ignore the complexity of difference in thought, feeling, behavior, goals etc that are necessarily a part of all people's differences, is not only disrespectful, but dangerous. While I think your comparison has some merit, the conclusions you derive from it, esp given Peterson's life and work, I feel are missing the mark on an almost intentional way. To think, all this man has to do for most everyone I see stop criticise him, is admit his allegiance to the tribe y'all subscribe to, and "all would be forgiven" and he would match up in your minds-eye. No different from why both the right and the liberal community dislike him, because he necessarily stratles the fence due to his opinions not being predicated on dogma.
Jesus lives in Jordan Peterson. There is this aching heart in him much like Jesus. It just shows on his face. In this era is there another secular Teacher of whom we may say 'there is no guile in him'?
@Surfdude12 1 Peterson was right: Justice Budweiser lied under oath. He was -- and remains -- unfit (just as the fool who nominated him). Surly, there were other jurists with more integrity.
Insights - Do you believe? Belief requires appropriate action. Israel means those who wrestle with God. Grace means nobly contending with suffering and malevolence. (Nobly contending is what pragmatic Stoicism teaches.) Nobly contending is acting as if God exists (Peterson's viewpoint). Bishop Barron: yes, Dr. Peterson is correct in saying that judgement (responsibility) is neglected in the Christian message today.
What I enjoy most about watching bishop Barron summarise his experience with Peterson is that he is observably humbled by the genuine approach that Peterson has towards belief. Modern society polarises itself into strong groups of a binary yes and no. And to have peterson as a sort of archetypal frog being, an in-between-being, is healthy even to the ones who hold convictions that are noble.
While I think social media is responsible for endless harm, how else could I see two of my favorite people talking. I have followed Dr. Peterson and Bishop Barron for a long time.
Might I share a quotation from the book "Orthodox Worship": "The word mercy in English is the translation of the Greek word eleos. This word has the same ultimate root as the old Greek word for oil, or more precisely, olive oil; a substance which was used extensively as a soothing agent for bruises and minor wounds. The oil was poured onto the wound and gently massaged in, thus soothing, comforting and making whole the injured part. The Hebrew word which is also translated as eleos and mercy is hesed, and means steadfast love. The Greek words for 'Lord, have mercy,' are 'Kyrie, eleison' that is to say, 'Lord, soothe me, comfort me, take away my pain, show me your steadfast love.' Thus mercy does not refer so much to justice or acquittal a very Western interpretation but to the infinite loving-kindness of God, and his compassion for his suffering children! It is in this sense that we pray 'Lord, have mercy,' with great frequency throughout the Divine Liturgy." This has helped me to see that the vision at the center of those two hands is love, as you say Bishop, but love in a particular mode....one that is tirelessly and unwaveringly focused on healing.
J de O, YES!! Yes! This is perfectly spot-on. Thank you for sharing, especially in this context. I’m a huge fan of both BB and JP. Seeing the emotion well up in JP around the belief question was so moving...and telling. Western Christianity (and I’m a Western Christian, specifically RC), for all its beauty, goodness, and truth, frequently (not always) misses this understanding of mercy. The emphasis is typically forensic, with mercy being more about begging for forgiveness, to not be rightly, justly judged, rather than healed over time. No doubt, sacrifice and justice are important elements of the journey (I loved how BB turned the “hero’s journey” on its head), but without the “balm of Gilead,” as it were, we are consumed by God’s holiness. Yes, we should fall to our knees in awe...but also in love at His tenderness. Extreme justice is why our classical Protestant brothers and sisters get so wrapped around the axle of distinguishing between Law and Gospel and unnecessary theories of the atonement. We NEED the balance of Eastern Christianity. The East engages in plenty of sacrificial practices, so it’s not like that element is lost by correctly understanding God’s mercy. Under the Mercy, (as Charles Williams used to note) O.P.
@@oscarprogresso From a secular viewpoint, developing the ability to ask for mercy strikes me as empowering. I think the act of asking for mercy acts to discharge the psychic burden that comes from knowing that we did something wrong. It is in the asking for mercy that the healing occurs and not in the granting of mercy. Which raises an interesting question. If a request for mercy is genuine how could God say no. But if God cannot say no to mercy then . . .
@John OConnor I agree, asking for mercy, even in a more juridical “acquittal” sense, is instrumental in healing and restoration; however, that’s where it often gets “stuck” and remains limited or muted in its efficacy. Forgiveness is a means to an end. The end is healing. I also think asking for mercy carries a necessary therapeutic quality. Surely this partially explains the persistent appetite for psychotherapy and counseling. I’ve experienced the same unburdening, or “psychic discharge,” after partIcipating in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Both entail a sharing (confessing) and acknowledgment of disordered behaviors. Where I differ with the sentiment you expressed is that I believe mercy is also given. This is the sweet spot of reciprocity, where the deepest healing occurs. The fullness of mercy includes receiving. Mercy is the highest order of the very nature of the Divine, namely Love. The origin of mercy is God. Mercy ultimately is relational, not just a logistical or administrative tabulation. Mercy as a need seems to be “hardwired” into our holistic make-up and not just an arbitrary expression of random biology. It goes beyond the purely physical or materialistic need and cure. I intuit the transcendent in mercy. I sense paradox in mercy. It begins monergistically. As the Bard reminds us, “The quality of mercy is not stained; it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven.” But the call to action is synergistic cooperation...”forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” and “to whom much is given, much is required.” “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”
Waaaawwwwww Bishop Barron got 200k subscribers already I remember that for 5 years I think it hasn't gone up for more than 30k subs. Spiritual rebirth in people is a thing now. Thank God.
On my second run through this video, I notice Bishop Barron’s comment about “God’s passionate search for us.” It struck me etymologically and raised this question: “does God suffer?”
"..the two arms of justice and mercy..." [18:50] This struck a chord when I heard it, and I was reminded of it when I encountered some JWs in Birmingham today; looking for the lion St John sees the lamb [Apocalypse5v5-6]. The symbolism echoes eastern martial arts where the Unstoppable fist is brought together with the Immovable open hand, prior to sparing.
Peterson has made a comment or two that has lead me to believe that he is more predisposed to the Orthodox Church. If he ever makes a comment like that to you, please remember to mention that there are Byzantine Catholics.
Yet, the words of our Lord comes to mind: “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:30 How? In so many ways, there is a joy beyond compare, and a promised “strength beyond ourselves” when you accept Jesus’ invitation to follow Him and assist the Church in the most important mission of all (CCC 1040-1055, Matthew 28: 19,20).
“No trial has come to you but what is human. God is faithful and will not let you be tried beyond your strength; but with the trial he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to bear it.” 1 COR 10:13
As a christian I always have an itch when I listen to Dr. Peterson, I have an itch to say something to him, to make him somehow realize what is he actually talking about. But as I think about it, in the greater scheme of things, for him to make the Biblical series while he is still unsettled with things is a greater benefit to everyone, christians and atheists (or whatever). As it provides another perspective of things. Even if you analyze the teaching of the Bible from this side of the Universe you can find out that it is indeed describes life, it understands the human being, the human consciousness, the human brain and the human condition better than any scientist today. And we have to put the question: Why? We of course know the answer for that, but it's indeed marvelous to see the power of Logos how it breeds life into plain text. You analyze the text psychologically, putting aside everything religious and you hit your head in mystery which leads you back to the Power of the Word and how it creates things and give them life. It's true how it is described in the Bible that even if everybody remains silent the rocks will speak about God, because indeed everything was created through the Word. As for Jordan Peterson, I don't know what journey God planned for him, he and his family went thru a lot of bullshit for sure. I hope God will find His way in his heart and in his mind. He has a good grasp on starting to understand the Word, the world, the struggle and reality, he yet needs to understand the grace of God and which is the easiest way to Win the fight. His biblical series remains a very good starting point to engage religion for the modern atheists and skeptics, because it's just hilariously sad that people today are so arrogantly claim and think that we believe in Santa Claus. I'm not really into Catholicism, but dear Bishop you earned my subscription today (after I watched several videos with you), you are certainly a treasure to Christianity. Good thinking, keep oiling your brains.
I think Peterson is a great example of someone who is coming from a completely logical and psychological standpoint. Trying their very best to understand religion and spirituality.
If God Himself wasn’t calling us to a relationship with Him despite our pathetic shortcomings, THEN I would be in the exact same place Jordan is regarding his spiritual struggle.
Both men and women need Jordan Peterson and you, Bishop Barron to speak the truth and to help men be men again. Men need men like you who are strong role models that practice what they preach. Thank God for both of you and I pray that you both will continue to speak up and help men and women re-find their identity in Christ. There’s no other way. The psychiatrists and psychologists, including every other individual nestled within the human sciences will claim that society can be re-engineered to help women and men live better lives but this is not true when it comes to living a moral life, and ultimately, a good life. I’m a woman who began listening to both these men about two years ago and my life has gone from chaos and misery, to order and joy. Thank God!
I'm new to religion. JBP, Paul VanderKlay and Jonathan Pageau took me to this path in the last 2 years. Now I'm a Catholic. Apparently Bishop Barron is one of the most relevant voices representing Catholicism. I'm not familiar with his work yet. Could somebody explain to me why he is especially relevant?
Welcome home! I have been following him for a short period of time and mainly through yt but perhaps any brother or sister in God in the US can answer your question. What I have noticed is bishop's Barron wisdom and passion, love for the Church. It is contagious. God bless you
Peterson is indeed a door opener to the possibility of God. You might say the good bishop is the next door keeper for those whose interests are piqued by Peterson and find themselves in the vestibule, if you will. Related: Listening to Peterson talk about why he cannot make a full, clear proclamation about Christianity struck me as having a mild Augustinian flavor to it. Young Augustine, looking ahead at the seriousness of Christian comittment. Perhaps one day, Mr Peterson. We'd be pleased to welcome you aboard. And could his criticism of the churches' soft sell of the faith been any more spot on?? Sans the real gravity of the following of Christ and membership in His Church being conveyed, no wonder so many today are floating off and away. Many float to a guy like Peterson, who is offering more than milktoast. Maybe Bishop Barron can write a "10 Catholic Rules for Success" to get things going...?
Jordan Peterson doesn't claim or proclaim his belief in God but his approach to life, which may be understood from his talks, is every bit Christian. His classroom attitude is what is dominant to his person to the effect of it perhaps coming on the way of him not recognising THE LORD who is befriending him just all the while. Having been an ideal and hugely successful Educationist his every discussion seems to be held with the attitude of a Teacher. So it is perhaps natural that Peterson has posed this question to Bishop Barron at the conclusion of the Podcast. What if Bishop Barron's answer is one most providential thing too. If Jordan Peterson thinks hard a bit as to why an accomplished brilliant mind like Bishop Barron would set a goal of 'leading people to FULNESS OF LIFE in CHRIST and the CHURCH' and work to bring more people to the Church, it could well be a turning point for Jordan Peterson.
Many people regard to Peterson as the new prophet of our times, and I agree. I agree because I truly believe that God has revealed Himself to Peterson to a degree that most of us people don't, even to priests, theologians, and even to ardent masters of philosophy like Bishop Barron. And I guess that revelation which Peterson saw was both beautiful and terrifying; beautiful because it prompted Peterson to engage in this "adventure" to know more about Christianity, terrified because he saw the majesty of God and saw his own terrible state of iniquity, so terrified that he is willing to stand on the periphery and not to be fully committed to Him. With that, I really considered Peterson a prophet and the weight that he is carrying is indeed heavy. I pray for Peterson. He is both fortunate and somehow "cursed" because of what is revealed to him.
Jordan Peterson, though he is a psycologist, speaks like a classic transcendentalist. This type of speaker will go out of their way to phrase their opinions and theories like a bridge to agreement for his listener. Two critical elements of conversation with a transcendentalist-type speaker 1. How argumentation is introduced 2. Silence, or what is not said
I thought of Catholicism when I first heard JBP for elusive- at -the- time reasons. And I also used the exact word “bridge” to describe him and in excitement for the future of the world. I’m so smart!😎
Where the hell is this interview? There are few things that I want more in this world than Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron. But I can't find the damn interview! Where is it?? WHERE??!!
My parents were committed atheists in my childhood, though they were raised Catholic. My grandfather was one of the first members of Opus Dei, to give an idea of how important the faith was in my family history. Despite their feelings, my parents sent me to Catholic school. I remember thinking, as a small child before Vatican II, that one of the beauties of the faith was the Latin liturgy. I thought that, wherever I might go in the world, the Mass would be the same. It gave me a sense of a very important connection with millions of people on our planet. I'm sorry to say that the church lost me after Vatican II. I have been to mass several times as an adult, for weddings, christenings and funerals, but I have never had the same feeling of mystery and transcendence that I felt as a child going to the Latin Mass with my classmates in primary school. Vatican II was a huge mistake, in my personal view, but I would be very interested in the bishop's perspective on that sea change in the Catholic Church. Jordan Peterson is a thoroughly good and hugely intelligent person, and I admire the bishop for the way he approached the dialogue between them.
JP’s argument that our cerebral capacity can’t explain why humanity would deviate from a zero sum game to be compassionate supports the argument for the Holy Spirit’s whispering that leads us away from the influence of the dark shadow. But, JP stops (just) short of committing to the existence of the HS, and this is where spiritual leaders like Bishop Barron can help the seekers take that next step. Personally, I’ve found A Course in Miracles helped to bridge the gap to commit entirely by putting the ego in its place and by accepting that JC and my HS are there to help navigate my way through this mess. External gratitude for the teachings of both JP and B Barron to help explain the unexplainable.
Listening to these great minds appeared to me that the concept of believing in God becomes a difficult mental challenge. Why not simply believe God like a child trusting his/her parents, who knows everything what is best to the child inflicting even painful medical vaccine for protection of the child from any virus..
Seeing the thumbnail of the video. 2 points: The juxtaposition of images of Bishop Barron. Peterson's image is isolated as Bishop Barron's image 'looks away' from Peterson. Since there is so much harmony between the two great individuals, opportunity to highlight the same.
And by belief in God, it seems that we mean something far deeper than thought and assent intellectually. But to reference John Henry Newman....this is a kind of assent that changes the person because it is trust. Trust is really, afterall, the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the word belief "pistis" or "aman".
I think like most of us, Jordan Peterson fears pronouncing once and for all his belief in God and the commitment that comes with it because of the ultimate failure we will have to face as Christians. But we can't deny the Truth that we know to protect a consistency in our acts and words which we deem makes us honorable. To give that up is painful humiliation but it opens us up to grace and an opportunity to commune with other believers-share are difficulties and joys. He's right though, at the end of the day action is a greater evidence Faith than any proclamation but by that metric who of us can really be called believers?
I have felt what Peterson I think is trying to express. To say that you are a follower of Christ can sound to me as an impossible ideal and also almost triumphalistic. I can never live up to the standard. I don't deserve the name. You want to cringe down to the ground in a defensive position from what may emanate from the sky above. It's taken a long time for me to realize that Christ accepts me as I am while helping me to be better. He's a much wiser, older brother who sticks up for his younger sibling despite all of his many faults. I'm a member of his family, sharing his own flesh and blood and that's what a good older brother does whether you deserve it or not.
Bishop Baron and Jordan Peterson, I’ll add:You have to talk to former Anglican Bishop convert to the Church Gavin Ashendon! Check out his channel. Yes, you cannot be trivial about Jesus, one’s every moment must be given over to Him, but trust and surrender is the hardest thing for those of us raised in materialism.
Min 6:20 Jordan gets it, to be a true Christian it requires action, it seems impossible to meet the requirements, that is the reason we need a Savior. We cannot do it on our own, a Savior is needed, a Good Shepherd
13:45: "If you don't realize you're a sinner, this thing is going to get dysfunctional fast." Beautiful. Chris Hedges, Presbyterian Minister once said something to effect of "I'm not as worried about replacing the concept of God with something else as much as I'm worried about losing the concept of SIN."
Peterson is a smart guy with a very marketable message caught up not unwillingly in a whirlwind of hype. His refusal to identify as a Christian - assuming he shares the faith - is not strategic, it's cynical. And the popular narrative that he just sort of accidentally fell into the limelight by taking a heroic anti-PC stance ignores that he was actively trying to establish a media career for himself as early as 2011. It's regrettable that Christians seem to feel a need to go to figures like this seeking validation.
Young people are hungry for a heroic call to responsibility. Peterson calls out the need for a robust Catholic challenge to young people. Unexpected critique of the spirit of Vatican II.
He nailed the "Spirit of Vat II" church to a cross, didn't he? No place for a self respecting man to stand comfortably in today's church. Yet we know there is no place else to stand. Can't leave. Won't join Peterson, just outside the vestibule doors. Somebody reform this thing!
I'm reminded of Rich Mullins, his work in charity and music, the way he chose to live really made the argument, living this way makes no sense unless God exists.
The reason that I had told him he needs to speak to bishop Barron is that I think he desperately needs a thomistic grounding to assist his view on God. It seems to me to be the piece he's missing
In regards to the second clip of comment with Dr. Peterson. I think he does a more relate-able job of using modern language to convey a vision of hope that their future has some real meaning. Pr 29:18
Has Peterson held up the video? Hope to hear the conversation soon. Or at least an explanation from Peterson on why he hasn't released it. He seems as though he might be a prickly sort.
When is Peterson going to release the podcast?! It's been two months! I'm bursting with anticipation! I've purposely avoided watching this so I can hear the full discussion first.
What strikes me in the podcast with Peterson is his interest in reading books about the architecture of those Cathedrals in Europe. As a seeker, he probably would want to dig into the minds of the architects who designed those Cathedrals. what inspired them to design those structures. What are the subliminal messages in those Cathedrals? I haven't gone to those places at all, but I feel that if I were there, my soul would probably depart from my body to navigate into the details of their construction and to find the reasons behind. After gathering the answers to all my questions, I might probably come back a different person.
Bishop Barron, You said that there is no longer the hyper stress on sexual sins (12:54) as there was Pre Vatican Council? Why would there not be intense focus on sexual sin as premarital sex, for one example is a mortal sin? Or please do correct me if I am wrong on that. Why is sexuality not talked about more in Word on Fire or your youtube videos? It appears to one of the areas of the most basic human temptation and the teaching is being dismissed and dumbed down leading myself and possibly others to be confused? Rubin interview for example. Thank you, God Bless.
Surfdude12 1 this confuses me as to what is a mortal sin and what mortal sin means? If there truly are mortal sins, and they have salvation threatening consequences, are we not to be told of them often and educated?
Hello Deborah,I'm sorry the Bishop didn't have time to answer your questions. If you want some answers though, I strongly recommend looking through his older videos, or typing in the keywords to questions you have into the search bar on his YT page. He has addressed most of those topics already, sometimes several times. I hope this explains why it might seem as though he does not cover certain topics. As Catholics, we believe in a seasonal Gospel and liturgy. This essentially means we do not expound on the same topics weeks after week. Instead we look to the scriptures for guidance on what lesson should be taught each week. I hope this helps!
Thanks to Jordan Peterson i returned to the faith after more than a decade of atheism. Hope he helps more people go back to church.
@Jozo Kulis It hasn't been published yet.
@@reginapontes5672 Yes ma'am
@@medicorene could you provide some source?
@@Regis596 They saidit in the first 5 mins of the video.
Medicorene Humbly I just wanted to correct, in the first 5 minutes they are talking about someone called Leah Labresco Sargeant.
Praying for Jordan Peterson! He has the potential to be the Augustine of our time, and Bishop Barron the Ambrose!!! So many prayers and already so much grace!
Amen, I thought the same thing! Keep pleading to Our Mother, Mary through the Rosary for Her powerful prayers! Jesus will grant Jordan the grace!
Amen!
Alanna Burg - that’s such a beautiful comment ♥️
So true wow! Praying 🙏
Jordan Peterson? The Augustine of our time? Are you serious? If you think a fascist mystic like Jordan Peterson is the Augustine of our time then something has truly gone wrong.
www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/19/jordan-peterson-and-fascist-mysticism/
I asked so many times on twitter for this, thanks to Dr Peterson i returned to the faith. Thank you
Praise God! Welcome home! I imagine Peterson would be happy to know that, even though he is not a Catholic. The journey has only just begun.
Same here. I was already fading away from the faith and then had to contend with my priest committing suicide, and then just abandoned it. Dr Peterson was the person who made me realize how life needs a purpose other than being happy. It's then that I realized Christ existed to show that purpose
@@wkbeats Keep the struggle brother!
So happy you had this conversation Bishop Barron! I converted to Catholicism this Easter, and a key part of my journey from rationalist atheism and into the Church was Jordan Peterson. I think the key one for me was when I learned a non-fundamentalist reading of the bible, and learning that the bible could be true, and not only that but perhaps the most eternal truths we have. This was pivotal moment in my conversion journey. And later when I did RCIA I found a lot of overlap between sort of JP's psychological analysis and the Catholic church, except of course that the . Catholic church uses less of the rationalist language, and of course also dwelves deeper into the transcendent/metaphysical realm.
What I see here is the hope for a future reunification of rationality and Christianity, and that is I think exactly what is needed to bring young people into the church again. We need a more rational church to emerge. It doesn't have to be the whole church, perhaps it will grow straight out of the Word on fire ministry. Or perhaps it needs to come via the Dominicans, who I find has already done the work needed, the only thing needed is really a popularizer and a movement.
Anyway, thank you very much again, and I really think there are few areas where you can save souls as effectively as in this part of the world. And I am personally a living testimony to that.
@Sondre7 Happy to read this. Congratulations!
Welcome home, my friend!
May God Bless .
Welcome home my friend! So happy for you!
This is pretty much what happened to me as well. As Bishop Barron put it, Dr Peterson certainly was instrumental in opening the door, freeing me from the "weight of atheistic secularism". Indeed he was that bridge that brought me first to consider, and then to embrace Catholicism.
Peterson is right that “belief in God” is a crushing responsibility than no one can bear. Belief in God should strike us down crying out for mercy because of our failures, and there we find Christ has stepped out in history to be crushed in the crucifixion to be the savior of our ineptness and sins. We respond by tears and gratitude. We stand up and walk in meekness and humility.
Christ is also God, a Second Person of Holy Trinity. He wasnt "someone" who "picked up a cross".
Well yes but missing it , if not believe , to the experience of His glory in oneself is so gratifying and eternaly loving.Its that fullfillment
The nontemporal unity that we have in The Body of Christ in comunion .So that we can , by loving and forgiving unite to our past and future is so undescribable that we can not explain in anyway near a mere psicological point of view or thought , what is like.
and this is just avery small part of it.
I mean once one decides to accept Him and learn to get close to Him ( GOD)ever so , will never leave Him. Its glorious .
Dare to go for it.
I blame the "feel good" Christians, and the "spiritual but not religious" people. They believe in a Santa Claus God - be good and you'll get what you want. Bleh! 🙄
Enrique, I suppose one could say that "belief in God" is a crushing responsibility, crying out for mercy. I don't see it that way. I see it as an exhilarating love affair with God who is madly in love with me and I with Him.
carmen catalano That is beautiful and true, but you still have to deal with your lover causing Noah’s flood, killing the Egyptians in the Red Sea, annihilating the Assyrian army, and coming back to destroy the antichrists and throw the wicked into the lake of fire. As your love said, “unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”
Our relationship with God is a beautiful love affair, but the king loves justice and will destroy everything and everyone that harms his bride. God is not a hippie, not passive, will not stand by forever allowing the bloodshed of his bride upon the earth. Both sides of the coin are our God. He is a kind and merciful lover, but will utterly annihilate sin and the sinners who attack his bride and his kingdom. He does not overlook sin forever.
I think understanding the gravity of our crimes against God and the punishment we deserve only make us more grateful to our lover for his saving work. A lot of blood, ripped flesh, and piercing limbs went into his rescue. The danger of sin has horrible consequences. The cross displays that. The future lake of fire underscores that. Our relationship with God is not simply like having an exciting relationship with boyfriend or husband. There are similar elements, but something much more powerful and holy as well. It is a both and thing. We are given intimate closeness, but a reverent respect must also cause us to tremble. As St. John the Beloved who laid his head on Jesus chest at the last supper wrote when encountering the same Jesus but in glory, “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.”
How emotional Jordan becomes when he is asked about God, tells me he does and I believe the Holy Spirit is at work - 'God has got his man'. He is a good, good man and I believe God is working in him and through him.
At this point Peterson had also been dealing with his wife's illness which they believed would take her life. I really appreciate Peterson's strength of conviction to his beliefs and work in such a dark time.
Let no man teach you
InstaBlaster...
Jordan Peterson was one of the main reasons I'm a Catholic now after being an atheist for like 10 years. I really enjoyed this interview!
AMJ55 welcome home.
Praise the Lord my friend.
Vogt did a great job. He captured Peterson’s thoughts and gave The Bishop an opportunity to respond.
Brandon Vogt is a great host. He and Bishop Barron make up a terrific Team in these podcasts.
Proud to have you Bishop Barron, a man of faith and reason, capable of discussing any issues with the best minds on earth. So proud of Word on fire ministry! God bless you All!
I am SO looking forward to watching this interview. God bless you, Bishop Barron! You and Dr. Peterson are inspiring and so needed in these troubled times.
Peterson seems to understand the gravity of Christian beliefs better than a lot of Christians I know...
But since his ethos is adoption of responsibility, living up to such a belief is the ultimate responsibility.
I agree. I think it's fair to say that, for many "Christians", the idea that they believe in Christ functions in a way that let's their conscience rest content; whereas, for Peterson, the idea that he believes in Christ makes it _very difficult_ for conscience to rest content (and this is much truer to older Christianity, I believe).
This whole responsibility debacle is just idealism ("how can i make myself into god?"), something that is divorced from reality. Doctor or any other man won't carry sins of the world they are to grave to bare that's just blasphemous to say. God himself did that and reedemed whole creation in what is known as His Mystical Body (Catholic Church).
@@Regis596 if you don't accept the responsibility to act in a certain way, then what is the point of saying, "I believe in Christ"? What could possibly be the value (to God or to man) for people to say they believe but without accepting any responsibility for action? It is all too easy to just say, "I believe", but it takes real commitment, _real belief,_ to modify your behavior over a lifetime to be in accordance with your belief. You can fake the faith expressed in words, but you can't fake the faith expressed in a lifetime of actions.
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs You know what, true. Do as you preach, take responsibility, examine your conscience and go to Holy Confession, so that through hands of the priest, Christ will forgive your sins, and you may become united with Him. :)
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs Or else, first, become baptized to wash off the Original Burden.
God bless you Bishop Barron. "Engaging people in the courtyard of the gentiles"
@@TheLeonhamm Dang, if I committed a sin I'm truly sorry. I definitely see where you're coming from, but your assessment doesn't reflect my intended use of those terms. Would you be open to me elaborating my position so we can explore if I actually am in a state of sin or not? Sincerely, Heath.
In order to evangelize, Bishop Barron (and the Church as a whole) have had to water down the religion - what you term "trad Catholic" - to make it attractive to the masses.
That made my day. God bless you!
Many would call me a trad but I also love Bishop Barron.
13:00, 'hyperstress on sexual sin'. I do not understand how any relaxation around moral teaching of sexual sin can help realize the heroes' quest to which Christianity calls us. Peterson is right to tremble before the magnitude of the fight we have before it we are to profess belief and identity in Christ. It is the fight against all our selfish impulses. You cannot just wave your hand at the massive harm occasioned by the sexual revolution and the resultant weakening of the family.
It broke my heart to see Jordan wrestling with his “yes” to God. It’s funny because it is Jordan who really helped me understand something of the narrow gate and sacrifice - that before freedom we must go through a constrictive or narrowing period. He used the example of a plumber who first has to go to school to learn the trade so when he comes out the other side he can work, provide for himself and his community. He articulated beautifully that we don’t get to choose whether we sacrifice or not, we only get to choose what that sacrifice is.
Yes, it’s terrifying to say yes to God... to take on giving up sin and going to confession etc. But now, I look back and I’d never ever take back my yes. The freedom I have now in my soul is what nothing else I had searched for from the world could give to me.
God bless, Jordan Peterson. May we pray he says yes and finds his way back home. He’s so catholic it hurts.... come home!
amen, well said. His emotion was welling up when he talked about belief in god.
Peterson is an atheist (as he states in "Maps of Meaning", p.1). He pretends to be Christian for marketing purposes.
@@urbanitecrusher5709 He wrote Maps of Meaning a long time ago. I suspect his views can change. If you'd asked me what I believed a couple of years ago it would be very different than the answer I'd give you now. He is a pragmatist so he believes in the intrinsic value and usefulness of universal truths - hence why he is so saturated in archetype... because stories communicate something of truth and have worth. I think he is at an existential crisis point... Am I a fan or a disciple? God bless
@@urbanitecrusher5709
Oh no. Pretending would be the last thing he would or needs to do. BTW Do you know that Dr Peterson is a Clinical Psychologist who has been rescuing people from living a lives of pretense etc?
Askmemakeup
It looks like that moment of Grace is evading him. Even if we won't witness of him joining a Church there is every chance of him seen by God's eyes as preceeding us on our journey heavenward.
"Do you believe in God? "
"Do I believe? I know. " -Carl Jung
One of the single best quotes ever spoken.
A vague cop out, come on man
We must evangelize! To use the logistical and truthful pathways of faith to save the world! Spread the truth! Spread the love! Liberation from suffering! I love you all! God Bless!
"God's on a hero's journey to find us"
Wow. That struck a nerve with me. Thanks Bishop.
(approx 22min)
Honestly. Beautiful language and expression.
That kinda pumps me up!
@@ABB14-11
Same here.
Wow!!! So exciting to see Dr. Peterson breaking out talking about God... Chills!!! Can't wait to see everything.
It is a privilege to hear this message. So nice to see the participants treat each other with respect.
"So nice to see the participants treat each other with respect."
That used to be normal not even that long ago. It's a shame that our society has become so vile that it is not normal anymore.
Wonderful! Looking forward to the entire conversation. :)
Sorry, I may be wrong on your site.But I am looking for details about a sect whose members believe i.a.: When they say certain magical words to wine , this wine will turn into the blood of their god, and when they do the same with cookies, these will turn into the real living body of their god and then they swallow it all, it goes through their stomach and the intestines and turns into faeces which they will then deposit in a restroom facility. Do you have any detailed knowledge about this sect and how do they call themselves?
@@annemburada6265 Hahaha, I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to get at. But have you heard of a sect that only believes in the moon god and disbelieves in the sun god? The followers of the moon god imagine that the light of the moon is independent of the sun only because they cannot see the sun in their darkness?
Bishop Barron, Wow. Thank you for being open to such an engaging discussion. You "teach" all how to discuss difficult topics in a non-antagonistic manner. Dr. Peterson's description (reiterated in my words) of believing in God feeling constrictive....and Church or believing feels like suffocation and takes away oneself...puts one in a box...was do heartfelt. I felt sorry for him. I also think many in the world feel as he stated. I pray one day God's love can be felt by those.
Something needs to be said about the intro and outro music.You guys need to spice that music up with some type of classical music and not some ringtone from the 90's.
I love the theme for his solo videos; maybe a variation of it for these collaborative ones?
This merits multiple listenings.
Very true.
I genuinely love Jordan Peterson. His psychological look into responsibility as purpose is so good. The way he you can hear the tremble in his voice about the responsibility of following God shows you how deep he thinks about this subject.
Lord, help Jordan's unbelief that he may believe!
He believes more than most.
If you don't see that you should be praying for yourself.
@@unacceptablesisterpeter3431 I totally agree. As Ken Wilber points out there are levels of understanding/belief.
@@donna.g7442 Nah, Christ is not some archetype. He is fully human and fully God, a Second Person of Holy Trinity. It was worked out some 18 centuries ago.
@@Regis596 so what does that mean. Words are nice but as St Francis said preach preach preach and only if you must use words. (Paraphrased)
@@unacceptablesisterpeter3431 it means that He is not some "enlightened one" or even " idea" as some would like Him to be. Jesus Christ of Nazareth born of Mary is the final revelation of One and Holy Trinity, Word made flesh, God incarnate. God Creator who set all this world in motion at the begining of time, and loves Man the most out of all of His creation. He loves us to such an extent that He sent His Son to die for our sins and give us eternal life, no man could bare sins of all and redeem all of creation. He released Jews from Egipt, sent them manna from heaven and sprung water out of rock for them, gave Moses 10 commandments and yet was crucified by them.
It struck me that Peterson's avoidance of declaring a belief in God because it comes with having to change one's life to reflect that reality, is much like a fear of commitment in terms of marriage. If you love someone and acknowledge it, it means that relationship comes first, it requires fidelity, sacrifice, dying to self. But what are the rewards? A deep and abiding love that gives meaning to your life! True love helps you mature and grow into a better human being! Joy and strength in times of hardship! I don't think Peterson is yet thinking of belief in God as what it truly is, falling in love! It is the ultimate covanental relationship.
Very true. One can easily see in our current society the parallel between an avoidance of commitment and a poor belief in God as Love. There's a reason the 1st Commandment comes before all else: commitment has to come first.
So true! Peterson has definitely shown no understanding of true commitment or servitude by his actions (teaching/actively engaged with the culture and sacrificing himself) and behavior (responsibilities: being married/having children).
@@JH-ji6cj Are you being facetious? As I understand it, Peterson has been married a long time and does have children. I wasn't casting aspersions on his character, merely noting the parallel between his unwillingness to commit and the unwillingness to commit to marriage that is so prevalent nowadays.
@@faithbooks7906 yes, I was most definitely being facetious. To be in a marriage and spout how much you *know* them (your partner) and ignore the complexity of difference in thought, feeling, behavior, goals etc that are necessarily a part of all people's differences, is not only disrespectful, but dangerous. While I think your comparison has some merit, the conclusions you derive from it, esp given Peterson's life and work, I feel are missing the mark on an almost intentional way. To think, all this man has to do for most everyone I see stop criticise him, is admit his allegiance to the tribe y'all subscribe to, and "all would be forgiven" and he would match up in your minds-eye. No different from why both the right and the liberal community dislike him, because he necessarily stratles the fence due to his opinions not being predicated on dogma.
Jesus lives in Jordan Peterson. There is this aching heart in him much like Jesus. It just shows on his face. In this era is there another secular Teacher of whom we may say 'there is no guile in him'?
@Surfdude12 1
Did you ever hear him clarify his position of that?
@Surfdude12 1
How about listing some of those instances of political expediency created by Jordan Peterson. Sure there ought to be some records.
@Surfdude12 1 Peterson was right: Justice Budweiser lied under oath. He was -- and remains -- unfit (just as the fool who nominated him). Surly, there were other jurists with more integrity.
@Surfdude12 1 Ugh, Canadians pontificating on US politics...
@Surfdude12 1
Still waiting for the list. BTW please include an image of that 'hole made worse'. Hope all is well.
I feel like if Peterson got into Thomas Aquinas, there could be a revolution. Not a violent one, but a cultural revolution.
**Chairman Mao has joined the server**
fragwagon hear, hear👍
To know that Catholic faith heavily nourishes our reason is dizzingly liberating :)
Agreed, and throw in St Augustine's sermons. I believe he'd find it enriching.
Regis596 👍👍
BB & JBP is all I need to see.
Jenuine Yoga JBBP
JBP sounds a bit like Martin Luther before his conversion. He seems to have a genuine sense of the weight of the Holiness of God.
Peterson opened the door. Bishop brought me across the threshold into this whole new understanding of the church.
my dreams have come true!
Insights - Do you believe? Belief requires appropriate action. Israel means those who wrestle with God. Grace means nobly contending with suffering and malevolence. (Nobly contending is what pragmatic Stoicism teaches.) Nobly contending is acting as if God exists (Peterson's viewpoint). Bishop Barron: yes, Dr. Peterson is correct in saying that judgement (responsibility) is neglected in the Christian message today.
Patrick G. Very true. Peterson very emotional about this.
What I enjoy most about watching bishop Barron summarise his experience with Peterson is that he is observably humbled by the genuine approach that Peterson has towards belief. Modern society polarises itself into strong groups of a binary yes and no. And to have peterson as a sort of archetypal frog being, an in-between-being, is healthy even to the ones who hold convictions that are noble.
While I think social media is responsible for endless harm, how else could I see two of my favorite people talking. I have followed Dr. Peterson and Bishop Barron for a long time.
Might I share a quotation from the book "Orthodox Worship": "The word mercy in English is the translation of the Greek word eleos. This word has the same ultimate root as the old Greek word for oil, or more precisely, olive oil; a substance which was used extensively as a soothing agent for bruises and minor wounds. The oil was poured onto the wound and gently massaged in, thus soothing, comforting and making whole the injured part. The Hebrew word which is also translated as eleos and mercy is hesed, and means steadfast love. The Greek words for 'Lord, have mercy,' are 'Kyrie, eleison' that is to say, 'Lord, soothe me, comfort me, take away my pain, show me your steadfast love.' Thus mercy does not refer so much to justice or acquittal a very Western interpretation but to the infinite loving-kindness of God, and his compassion for his suffering children! It is in this sense that we pray 'Lord, have mercy,' with great frequency throughout the Divine Liturgy." This has helped me to see that the vision at the center of those two hands is love, as you say Bishop, but love in a particular mode....one that is tirelessly and unwaveringly focused on healing.
J de O,
YES!! Yes! This is perfectly spot-on. Thank you for sharing, especially in this context. I’m a huge fan of both BB and JP. Seeing the emotion well up in JP around the belief question was so moving...and telling. Western Christianity (and I’m a Western Christian, specifically RC), for all its beauty, goodness, and truth, frequently (not always) misses this understanding of mercy. The emphasis is typically forensic, with mercy being more about begging for forgiveness, to not be rightly, justly judged, rather than healed over time. No doubt, sacrifice and justice are important elements of the journey (I loved how BB turned the “hero’s journey” on its head), but without the “balm of Gilead,” as it were, we are consumed by God’s holiness. Yes, we should fall to our knees in awe...but also in love at His tenderness. Extreme justice is why our classical Protestant brothers and sisters get so wrapped around the axle of distinguishing between Law and Gospel and unnecessary theories of the atonement. We NEED the balance of Eastern Christianity. The East engages in plenty of sacrificial practices, so it’s not like that element is lost by correctly understanding God’s mercy.
Under the Mercy,
(as Charles Williams used to note)
O.P.
@@oscarprogresso From a secular viewpoint, developing the ability to ask for mercy strikes me as empowering. I think the act of asking for mercy acts to discharge the psychic burden that comes from knowing that we did something wrong. It is in the asking for mercy that the healing occurs and not in the granting of mercy. Which raises an interesting question. If a request for mercy is genuine how could God say no. But if God cannot say no to mercy then . . .
@John OConnor
I agree, asking for mercy, even in a more juridical “acquittal” sense, is instrumental in healing and restoration; however, that’s where it often gets “stuck” and remains limited or muted in its efficacy. Forgiveness is a means to an end. The end is healing. I also think asking for mercy carries a necessary therapeutic quality.
Surely this partially explains the persistent appetite for psychotherapy and counseling. I’ve experienced the same unburdening, or “psychic discharge,” after partIcipating in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Both entail a sharing (confessing) and acknowledgment of disordered behaviors. Where I differ with the sentiment you expressed is that I believe mercy is also given. This is the sweet spot of reciprocity, where the deepest healing occurs. The fullness of mercy includes receiving. Mercy is the highest order of the very nature of the Divine, namely Love. The origin of mercy is God. Mercy ultimately is relational, not just a logistical or administrative tabulation. Mercy as a need seems to be “hardwired” into our holistic make-up and not just an arbitrary expression of random biology. It goes beyond the purely physical or materialistic need and cure. I intuit the transcendent in mercy. I sense paradox in mercy. It begins monergistically. As the Bard reminds us, “The quality of mercy is not stained; it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven.” But the call to action is synergistic cooperation...”forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” and “to whom much is given, much is required.”
“Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.”
Waaaawwwwww Bishop Barron got 200k subscribers already I remember that for 5 years I think it hasn't gone up for more than 30k subs. Spiritual rebirth in people is a thing now. Thank God.
On my second run through this video, I notice Bishop Barron’s comment about “God’s passionate search for us.” It struck me etymologically and raised this question: “does God suffer?”
Yes, in the person of Christ he does.
"..the two arms of justice and mercy..." [18:50] This struck a chord when I heard it, and I was reminded of it when I encountered some JWs in Birmingham today; looking for the lion St John sees the lamb [Apocalypse5v5-6]. The symbolism echoes eastern martial arts where the Unstoppable fist is brought together with the Immovable open hand, prior to sparing.
Peterson has made a comment or two that has lead me to believe that he is more predisposed to the Orthodox Church. If he ever makes a comment like that to you, please remember to mention that there are Byzantine Catholics.
Julie Luckey they exist in Canada too.
I saw Peterson’s Praeger U speech and came straight here. Really looking forward to hearing the full podcast.
Yet, the words of our Lord comes to mind:
“For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
Matthew 11:30
How? In so many ways, there is a joy beyond compare, and a promised “strength beyond ourselves” when you accept Jesus’ invitation to follow Him and assist the Church in the most important mission of all (CCC 1040-1055, Matthew 28: 19,20).
“No trial has come to you but what is human. God is faithful and will not let you be tried beyond your strength; but with the trial he will also provide a way out, so that you may be able to bear it.” 1 COR 10:13
As a christian I always have an itch when I listen to Dr. Peterson, I have an itch to say something to him, to make him somehow realize what is he actually talking about. But as I think about it, in the greater scheme of things, for him to make the Biblical series while he is still unsettled with things is a greater benefit to everyone, christians and atheists (or whatever).
As it provides another perspective of things. Even if you analyze the teaching of the Bible from this side of the Universe you can find out that it is indeed describes life, it understands the human being, the human consciousness, the human brain and the human condition better than any scientist today. And we have to put the question: Why?
We of course know the answer for that, but it's indeed marvelous to see the power of Logos how it breeds life into plain text. You analyze the text psychologically, putting aside everything religious and you hit your head in mystery which leads you back to the Power of the Word and how it creates things and give them life. It's true how it is described in the Bible that even if everybody remains silent the rocks will speak about God, because indeed everything was created through the Word.
As for Jordan Peterson, I don't know what journey God planned for him, he and his family went thru a lot of bullshit for sure. I hope God will find His way in his heart and in his mind. He has a good grasp on starting to understand the Word, the world, the struggle and reality, he yet needs to understand the grace of God and which is the easiest way to Win the fight. His biblical series remains a very good starting point to engage religion for the modern atheists and skeptics, because it's just hilariously sad that people today are so arrogantly claim and think that we believe in Santa Claus.
I'm not really into Catholicism, but dear Bishop you earned my subscription today (after I watched several videos with you), you are certainly a treasure to Christianity. Good thinking, keep oiling your brains.
Brandon is always so good at asking the Q’s and following up.
I think Peterson is a great example of someone who is coming from a completely logical and psychological standpoint. Trying their very best to understand religion and spirituality.
If God Himself wasn’t calling us to a relationship with Him despite our pathetic shortcomings, THEN I would be in the exact same place Jordan is regarding his spiritual struggle.
Love Dr. P and Bishop B! Great minds! Hope to see them discussing faith and God more in the future!
Both men and women need Jordan Peterson and you, Bishop Barron to speak the truth and to help men be men again. Men need men like you who are strong role models that practice what they preach. Thank God for both of you and I pray that you both will continue to speak up and help men and women re-find their identity in Christ. There’s no other way. The psychiatrists and psychologists, including every other individual nestled within the human sciences will claim that society can be re-engineered to help women and men live better lives but this is not true when it comes to living a moral life, and ultimately, a good life. I’m a woman who began listening to both these men about two years ago and my life has gone from chaos and misery, to order and joy. Thank God!
"God is actually on a hero's journey to US" What an absolutely profound thought! I just had my mind blown.
So excited to listen to the podcast ! Great interview thank you for this !
Belief is not based on your ability to hold it. It's based on the confidence you have in God to be true to His Word.
I'm new to religion. JBP, Paul VanderKlay and Jonathan Pageau took me to this path in the last 2 years. Now I'm a Catholic. Apparently Bishop Barron is one of the most relevant voices representing Catholicism. I'm not familiar with his work yet. Could somebody explain to me why he is especially relevant?
Welcome home! I have been following him for a short period of time and mainly through yt but perhaps any brother or sister in God in the US can answer your question. What I have noticed is bishop's Barron wisdom and passion, love for the Church. It is contagious. God bless you
Watch his lectures. There's plenty here in YT. His Catholicism series is awesome for those who are curious about the Church.
He's identified root problems, not leaf problems, in our culture and in how the Church relates to it.
Are you familiar with the basic tenets of neo Marxism, the social justice movement, and postmodernism?
There's a common thread in all of them.
When the Bishop said, "Live your life in a way that makes no sense unless there is a God," I thought also of Saint Damien of Molokai
Thanks so much for this. Really connected at the 20th minute conversation. Need more of these discussions today
Peterson is indeed a door opener to the possibility of God. You might say the good bishop is the next door keeper for those whose interests are piqued by Peterson and find themselves in the vestibule, if you will. Related: Listening to Peterson talk about why he cannot make a full, clear proclamation about Christianity struck me as having a mild Augustinian flavor to it. Young Augustine, looking ahead at the seriousness of Christian comittment. Perhaps one day, Mr Peterson. We'd be pleased to welcome you aboard. And could his criticism of the churches' soft sell of the faith been any more spot on?? Sans the real gravity of the following of Christ and membership in His Church being conveyed, no wonder so many today are floating off and away. Many float to a guy like Peterson, who is offering more than milktoast. Maybe Bishop Barron can write a "10 Catholic Rules for Success" to get things going...?
Jordan Peterson doesn't claim or proclaim his belief in God but his approach to life, which may be understood from his talks, is every bit Christian. His classroom attitude is what is dominant to his person to the effect of it perhaps coming on the way of him not recognising THE LORD who is befriending him just all the while. Having been an ideal and hugely successful Educationist his every discussion seems to be held with the attitude of a Teacher. So it is perhaps natural that Peterson has posed this question to Bishop Barron at the conclusion of the Podcast. What if Bishop Barron's answer is one most providential thing too. If Jordan Peterson thinks hard a bit as to why an accomplished brilliant mind like Bishop Barron would set a goal of 'leading people to FULNESS OF LIFE in CHRIST and the CHURCH' and work to bring more people to the Church, it could well be a turning point for Jordan Peterson.
"If you don't realize you're a sinner, this thing is going to get dysfunctional fast."
me: constantly refreshing podcast app....
It's up!
I love to listen to both of these men; it’s deep and not run-of-the-mill pseudo-intellectualism.
Many people regard to Peterson as the new prophet of our times, and I agree. I agree because I truly believe that God has revealed Himself to Peterson to a degree that most of us people don't, even to priests, theologians, and even to ardent masters of philosophy like Bishop Barron. And I guess that revelation which Peterson saw was both beautiful and terrifying; beautiful because it prompted Peterson to engage in this "adventure" to know more about Christianity, terrified because he saw the majesty of God and saw his own terrible state of iniquity, so terrified that he is willing to stand on the periphery and not to be fully committed to Him.
With that, I really considered Peterson a prophet and the weight that he is carrying is indeed heavy. I pray for Peterson. He is both fortunate and somehow "cursed" because of what is revealed to him.
Jordan Peterson, though he is a psycologist, speaks like a classic transcendentalist. This type of speaker will go out of their way to phrase their opinions and theories like a bridge to agreement for his listener. Two critical elements of conversation with a transcendentalist-type speaker 1. How argumentation is introduced 2. Silence, or what is not said
I thought of Catholicism when I first heard JBP for elusive- at -the- time reasons. And I also used the exact word “bridge” to describe him and in excitement for the future of the world. I’m so smart!😎
Where the hell is this interview? There are few things that I want more in this world than Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron. But I can't find the damn interview! Where is it?? WHERE??!!
It's not yet published.
Seek first the kingdom of God.
Be patient, my friend :)
@@Beestonia9 Thank you.
@@jorger7723 Igualmente, Jorge. Un saludo
My parents were committed atheists in my childhood, though they were raised Catholic. My grandfather was one of the first members of Opus Dei, to give an idea of how important the faith was in my family history. Despite their feelings, my parents sent me to Catholic school. I remember thinking, as a small child before Vatican II, that one of the beauties of the faith was the Latin liturgy. I thought that, wherever I might go in the world, the Mass would be the same. It gave me a sense of a very important connection with millions of people on our planet. I'm sorry to say that the church lost me after Vatican II. I have been to mass several times as an adult, for weddings, christenings and funerals, but I have never had the same feeling of mystery and transcendence that I felt as a child going to the Latin Mass with my classmates in primary school. Vatican II was a huge mistake, in my personal view, but I would be very interested in the bishop's perspective on that sea change in the Catholic Church. Jordan Peterson is a thoroughly good and hugely intelligent person, and I admire the bishop for the way he approached the dialogue between them.
Peterson strikes me as Martin Luther, had Luther never read the book of Romans.
Thanks Brandon and Bishop Barron.
JP’s argument that our cerebral capacity can’t explain why humanity would deviate from a zero sum game to be compassionate supports the argument for the Holy Spirit’s whispering that leads us away from the influence of the dark shadow. But, JP stops (just) short of committing to the existence of the HS, and this is where spiritual leaders like Bishop Barron can help the seekers take that next step. Personally, I’ve found A Course in Miracles helped to bridge the gap to commit entirely by putting the ego in its place and by accepting that JC and my HS are there to help navigate my way through this mess. External gratitude for the teachings of both JP and B Barron to help explain the unexplainable.
Bishop Barron, will you do an interview with E Michael Jones?
Listening to these great minds appeared to me that the concept of believing in God becomes a difficult mental challenge. Why not simply believe God like a child trusting his/her parents, who knows everything what is best to the child inflicting even painful medical vaccine for protection of the child from any virus..
we need a reunion now
Seeing the thumbnail of the video. 2 points: The juxtaposition of images of Bishop Barron. Peterson's image is isolated as Bishop Barron's image 'looks away' from Peterson. Since there is so much harmony between the two great individuals, opportunity to highlight the same.
And by belief in God, it seems that we mean something far deeper than thought and assent intellectually. But to reference John Henry Newman....this is a kind of assent that changes the person because it is trust. Trust is really, afterall, the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the word belief "pistis" or "aman".
I think like most of us, Jordan Peterson fears pronouncing once and for all his belief in God and the commitment that comes with it because of the ultimate failure we will have to face as Christians. But we can't deny the Truth that we know to protect a consistency in our acts and words which we deem makes us honorable. To give that up is painful humiliation but it opens us up to grace and an opportunity to commune with other believers-share are difficulties and joys. He's right though, at the end of the day action is a greater evidence Faith than any proclamation but by that metric who of us can really be called believers?
Thank you for these amazing thoughts and for the interview and all the work of Word on Fire! Keep up the good work, God bless you
Yes
I have felt what Peterson I think is trying to express. To say that you are a follower of Christ can sound to me as an impossible ideal and also almost triumphalistic. I can never live up to the standard. I don't deserve the name. You want to cringe down to the ground in a defensive position from what may emanate from the sky above. It's taken a long time for me to realize that Christ accepts me as I am while helping me to be better. He's a much wiser, older brother who sticks up for his younger sibling despite all of his many faults. I'm a member of his family, sharing his own flesh and blood and that's what a good older brother does whether you deserve it or not.
Bishop Baron and Jordan Peterson, I’ll add:You have to talk to former Anglican Bishop convert to the Church Gavin Ashendon! Check out his channel. Yes, you cannot be trivial about Jesus, one’s every moment must be given over to Him, but trust and surrender is the hardest thing for those of us raised in materialism.
Min 6:20 Jordan gets it, to be a true Christian it requires action, it seems impossible to meet the requirements, that is the reason we need a Savior. We cannot do it on our own, a Savior is needed, a Good Shepherd
13:45: "If you don't realize you're a sinner, this thing is going to get dysfunctional fast."
Beautiful. Chris Hedges, Presbyterian Minister once said something to effect of "I'm not as worried about replacing the concept of God with something else as much as I'm worried about losing the concept of SIN."
Peterson is a smart guy with a very marketable message caught up not unwillingly in a whirlwind of hype. His refusal to identify as a Christian - assuming he shares the faith - is not strategic, it's cynical. And the popular narrative that he just sort of accidentally fell into the limelight by taking a heroic anti-PC stance ignores that he was actively trying to establish a media career for himself as early as 2011. It's regrettable that Christians seem to feel a need to go to figures like this seeking validation.
Looking forward to it!!
Young people are hungry for a heroic call to responsibility. Peterson calls out the need for a robust Catholic challenge to young people. Unexpected critique of the spirit of Vatican II.
This so much. If I get time I will comment, but it's what made me a huge fan of Peterson and I hold his exact criticism on the Church as a Catholic.
Yes, please Catholics do something about Vatican ii . No more 60s please :)
He nailed the "Spirit of Vat II" church to a cross, didn't he? No place for a self respecting man to stand comfortably in today's church. Yet we know there is no place else to stand. Can't leave. Won't join Peterson, just outside the vestibule doors. Somebody reform this thing!
I'm reminded of Rich Mullins, his work in charity and music, the way he chose to live really made the argument, living this way makes no sense unless God exists.
In simple words, there is a need for more saints...
The reason that I had told him he needs to speak to bishop Barron is that I think he desperately needs a thomistic grounding to assist his view on God. It seems to me to be the piece he's missing
God is on a hero’s journey for us? Holy crap! 🤯
¡Thank you so much!
que excelente entrevista!
"I don't need to believe it... I know" ~Carl Jung
"Believe that you may understand."
Thanks very much sirs.
Sorry to say but after listening to the JBP podcast the impression that stays is: A Catholic meets a modernist bishop.
Brilliant
Thank you to Bishop Barron, Jordan Peterson, and Ben Shapiro for I came back to my Faith! :)
In regards to the second clip of comment with Dr. Peterson. I think he does a more relate-able job of using modern language to convey a vision of hope that their future has some real meaning. Pr 29:18
Has Peterson held up the video? Hope to hear the conversation soon. Or at least an explanation from Peterson on why he hasn't released it. He seems as though he might be a prickly sort.
I don't think it's available :/
The interview??
@@Catholic-Redpilled-Spaniard not yet
When is Peterson going to release the podcast?! It's been two months! I'm bursting with anticipation! I've purposely avoided watching this so I can hear the full discussion first.
Sunday, June 23 wordonfire.org/peterson
Strange that JBP hasn't uploaded the full interview...
Just attempted to find it and could not. This is highly suspicious that the interview has not been released. I wonder if Bishop Barron knows why?
@@Goodkidjr43 Dr. Peterson is releasing it Sunday, June 23: www.wordonfire.org/peterson/
What strikes me in the podcast with Peterson is his interest in reading books about the architecture of those Cathedrals in Europe. As a seeker, he probably would want to dig into the minds of the architects who designed those Cathedrals. what inspired them to design those structures. What are the subliminal messages in those Cathedrals? I haven't gone to those places at all, but I feel that if I were there, my soul would probably depart from my body to navigate into the details of their construction and to find the reasons behind. After gathering the answers to all my questions, I might probably come back a different person.
#prayforpeterson
Bishop Barron, You said that there is no longer the hyper stress on sexual sins (12:54) as there was Pre Vatican Council? Why would there not be intense focus on sexual sin as premarital sex, for one example is a mortal sin? Or please do correct me if I am wrong on that. Why is sexuality not talked about more in Word on Fire or your youtube videos? It appears to one of the areas of the most basic human temptation and the teaching is being dismissed and dumbed down leading myself and possibly others to be confused? Rubin interview for example. Thank you, God Bless.
Surfdude12 1 this confuses me as to what is a mortal sin and what mortal sin means? If there truly are mortal sins, and they have salvation threatening consequences, are we not to be told of them often and educated?
Surfdude12 1 Thank you
Hello Deborah,I'm sorry the Bishop didn't have time to answer your questions. If you want some answers though, I strongly recommend looking through his older videos, or typing in the keywords to questions you have into the search bar on his YT page. He has addressed most of those topics already, sometimes several times. I hope this explains why it might seem as though he does not cover certain topics. As Catholics, we believe in a seasonal Gospel and liturgy. This essentially means we do not expound on the same topics weeks after week. Instead we look to the scriptures for guidance on what lesson should be taught each week.
I hope this helps!