Peterson's greatest worth is that he has made Biblical teaching accessible, engaging and intellectually serious to a widespread audience -- many of whom would otherwise be disinterested or dismissive of Christianity. Seeing the Bible, even from the theoretical and archetypal view, as an antidote to the utterly devastating moral / spiritual nihilism of our age is drawing a great many people back to the faith (myself included).
You might want to check this channel out from a youtuber with a similar experience who is critiquing "12 rules" and "jordanetics" ruclips.net/video/mQYTsdkRbIQ/видео.html
Barky London: JBP asserts SOME Christian ethics (accepts homosexuality and abortion) but asserts that the Existence of God or Jesus Christ or His and our Resurrection) is NOT necessary. Nietzsche and St. Paul saw the futility of such an endeavor. 1 Corinthians 15:12-19 New International Version (NIV) The Resurrection of the Dead 12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. In other words, JBP should be pitied for believing something which is grounded in nothing.. Nietzsche ridiculed the Victorians and other Bourgeoisie who believed that one can retain Christian ethics and morality and jettison the Christian religion in which the former is grounded.
Loved Peterson’s lectures on Genesis and can’t wait for Exodus. I can see why some more exacting Catholics are not into him, but his work really inspired me to return to the church.
@Brian N I've always been a Catholic and I really like JBP. He explains ideas I already share in a completely new way to me, so he makes me think over them. Glad you returned to the Church! No better place :)
Bishop Barron’s points are great. To build from the ethic and archetype to the flesh is essential. Peterson did, however, enrich my understanding of our own myths and narratives, and in so doing, reinforced my faith, helped refine my concept of belief, and elucidated my concept of Roman Catholicism in its best moments as a profoundly human, deeply philosophical, affirming and moderate tradition.
Bishop Barron, when are you going to interview Jordan Peterson in person? Looking forward to getting you two together...and one last thing, Go Redwings!
I can't wait to see Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson sitting together having a conversation. I deeply admire both, and I think that Peterson's intellectual honesty is a key in any approach to truth.
Yes! Saw JP a couple of weeks ago and felt sadder in person because he is just short of pushing into the deeper truth that Christ is the myth come alive and is who He says He is.
The profundity of the myth must be reawakened before gravity of its reality can be appreciated...as it was with our ancestors. JP has an important role to play here.
@@DonkeyKong8 : I don't see how you differ your ancestors from our forefathers. I know I have 10 shares inheritance not 10% by your associations. JP has nothing on Me
The contemplative practices.....take you even deeper. Lectio Divina, the Rosary, Centering Prayer, etc. The sacrament of the present moment. The Eucharist itself even.
As a non-believer ( raised as a Roman Catholic), I like how Peterson tries to figure out the inherent wisdom in Scripture (and not just the Christian stories). This makes sense. Scriptural accounts are ancient and pervasive. We have clung to them because they attempt to enhance our survival and reduce our suffering in an often hostile world. Peterson puts scriptural accounts into meaningful and pragmatic origin scenarios. I eagerly anticipate a podcast of Bishop Barron and Professor Peterson.
JBP knows believing in the real life of Jesus would lead to prayer. Prayer would transform his well trained scientific mind and put him on the unfamiliar side of Lessing’s gulf. Very scary indeed. He does humanity a great service from his side of the gulf. Be gentle Father.
Humble Joes , Bishop Barron is very gentle and careful which makes him a very responsible leader. I think leading JBP to the Holy Spirit and the Eucharist would only allow God to do greater things through him.
Humble Joes: A person (JPB) who does not believe that Jesus Christ existed in contrast to the overwhelming historical evidence is NOT "a well trained scientific mind". JBP is no different than Holocaust deniers...... JBP does great harm to humanity because he asserts that science, not belief in God and His Revelation will save humanity. This was tried in the late 19th and early twentieth centuries and led to Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
@@Goodkidjr43 Yeah that's a lie. He does believe Jesus was a real historical person, and has NEVER asserted some kind of human salvation found in science. His interest is in understanding archetypes, and myths. He has no interest in promoting a complete Christian, or Catholic social domination on everything in social, and political life. Like you, and the fundamentalists would like. When he says myth what he means is narrative he isn't claiming true or false. He's reading the mental substrate behind said "myth". I am no Christian, but I am avidly in your favor when you have been oppressed, and avidly against you when you attempt to oppress that is to say claim no-one but you is competent in making the world better; which ALOT(not most) of you CONTINUE to do.
For the listener that called and asked and compared Christianity to Hindu being more peaceful. First of ALL we Catholic Christian follow Our Lord Jesus, that means we carry the Cross and sometimes we Catholic forget that but God will give us strength to continue. Someone once told me this person was a convert from Protestant and he said, being a Catholic is harder because as soon as he converted things got harder. Well that shows we follow the right path. ✌
The test of a religion isn’t the amount of “peace” it brings, rather the amount of truth it contains. Christ Himself said he came not to bring peace but a sword, by which He means that His teachings would divide men like wheat from the chaff. Christians are persecuted because their beliefs have real meat to them. Its not fluff like Hinduism or Buddhism.
I wish you had touched upon the following with regards to the caller question: 1) Even if it were true that 'Hindu' civilization had fewer wars and violence (which is debatable), they were also much more restrictive and rigidly stratifying. We did not form the same form of Caste system in the West that formed in India, partially because, unlike in Hinduism, peasants and kings are put on the same spiritual footing. According to Hindu beliefs, one of the reasons the rich and powerful were born into a higher class is because they were spiritually superior to others. Christians believed everyone started on the same spiritual footing from birth and are subject to the same judgment in death, regardless of their station in life. By having your class be considered ordained by the gods based on YOUR own actions in a previous life and stating that fighting/denying this in any way will only further condemn you in the next life, it reduces the social unrest between classes that you might normally see in a freer society. 2) Even though there were different rulers, most of India was culturally indistinct from the rest. In Europe you had a small space of extremely disparate cultures living side by side. Is it not likely that THIS is more responsible for greater number of wars between Christian Kingdoms, rather than an inherent trait of Christianity? 3) British taking India as a colony was not BECAUSE they were Christian. Colonies and Tributary states (India was closer to a tributary state than a colony) have existed for thousands of years. Indians also conquered other places when they could, so it is not a 'feature' of Western Christianity. 4) Slavery was ENDED by the Christian West, and not by any other civilization. In fact, many MODERN DAY Indians seem to still support that institution, so much so that India has the MOST modern day slaves in the world, so I find it laughable to use THAT as an attack on Western Christianity. 5) The holocaust.... the West wasn't the first and won't be the last civilization to have genocide as a feature in its history. The holocaust was performed in direct contradiction of Christianity, which is why we found it so horrific and allow ourselves to be brow-beaten over this unjust attack.
Dr. Peterson describes himself as a Phenomenologist with regard to his philosophy. I believe that the writings of Edith Stein, JP2 and Ratzinger would provide the best intersection for Peterson and his audience.
Bishop and Brandon, thanks for another great Peterson discussion! I think he evades the metaphysical question in similar fashion to Viktor Frankl, who wanted his theory to stand apart from whatever his personal belief system is, and to avoid being labeled or typecasted. Peterson is very sharp and knows his lane is as a psychologist not a theologian. He speaks about what he knows and doesn’t venture into areas he has not sufficiently studied. The bracketing technique is common in qualitative forms of psychological inquiry: state your limitations and biases upfront and then get to what you found in the research. And yes, I would love to see a Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson convo! God bless
Bishop Barron, if you miraculously happen to see this, I hope you'd consider applying a Girardian critique of Jung and Peterson. I always wondered what a serious engagement between all of those thinkers would look like.
Maybe I have a simple faith, Jesus was born, lived , died and came back to life. He did this so that I should have life and have it to the full. Jesus wasn’t complex in that his message is straight forward in that we need to love our neighbour like ourselves and to love God. It makes my heart weep the way the world operates on self absorbed way. I love to meet people who strive to love like Jesus. They are there and it excites my spirit.
I wanted to clarify my question at the end (23:25) of the show. The statements I was attributing to my Hindu friends were hypothetical, and were based on some of the arguments that I have heard elsewhere. My question was in the context of Bishop Barron's recent talks/book about arguing religion, and I was looking for an appropriate response. One of the points Bishop Barron makes is that people ask questions from a frame of reference that is biased, but often there is some truth to what they are saying. Our response, in Christian charity ought to get to that kernel of truth, so that we can clear any misunderstanding, instead of proving the other person wrong, which he/she very well might be. I thought Bishop Barron's answer was simple and direct. I suspect even he did not get the true intent of my question, which makes his answer even more genuine! Case in point where things went awfully wrong while arguing religion - I was following the trail of comments to a RUclips trailer of "The Least of These: The Graham Staines Story" about an Australian missionary and his two sons who were burnt to death in India. The comments are laced with obscenities. Both sides of the fence fared badly, attacking each others religion, and I would say everyone came out alienated even further.
Good question. You could've used Buddhism or Jainism which has much less violence history compared to Hinduism. But I'm not convinced with his answer though. Felt more like an evasion
I like Bishop Barron a lot. I think that Catholicism, particularly today has found a very able spokesman for what I like to call enlightened orthodoxy. I find his approach akin to that of many writers and teachers esp. in Tibetan Buddhism who are the proponents of what is being termed Modern Buddhism. This discussion about bracketing metaphysics is the perfect place to watch another form of bracketing which I find Bishop Barron and some Buddhist teachers share with fundamentalists of every stripe. I was fine with this interview right up to the moment when Barron, in his own words appeared rather “flip” in answering a question by declaring that Christianity is true. Christianity is true as opposed to Hinduism which is false? Not false as in an evil perversion of the Truth but false as in, “those poor buggers over there they just haven’t had the good fortune to have embraced Jesus, the Christ as the supreme example of a being truly pleasing to God.” Statements like God is real; Jesus is real; the resurrection from the dead is real stagger me with a level of incongruity that is in stark contrast with his previously enlightened stance. Peterson points out along with Voltaire that uncertainty, the dance between the chaos of Pure Reason and the order of Thomistic practical reason is an uncomfortable position. Out of that discomfort emerged the great narratives of our society including the Bible. Voltaire and Peterson go on to point out however that a position of certainty esp. of the type Bishop Barron is offering is an absurd one.
Outstanding discussion. Here is how I have suggested to Jordan Peterson that he might bridge Lessing's Gap. It is to grapple with Jesus' questions to his disciples about his identity. First, "Who do men say that I am?" The answer is, perhaps, an historical one, one which deals with an objective reality, regardless of whether the answer is acceptable to all observers. Now, the second and far more important question, "But, who do you say that I am?" The "but" here is absolutely critical. Jesus is saying "There are two ways to perceive who I am, and only one of these really matters in the long run." Jordan Peterson needs to answer both questions as honestly as he can. Yes, Jesus is an archetype of the person who completely fulfills the will of God. But... he is more than that. He is... well, what insight does this same passage say had been revealed - revealed - to Peter? This is what Jordan needs to ponder.
It would be so epic if Fr. Robert Barron and Jordan Peterson could talk. They are both very smart and an intellectual conversation between the both of them would be very interesting indeed.
I don't know that Christianity was all that unreflective. If you've read the Letters of Paul he is pretty harsh about demanding the 1st century believers figure out how to think and act like they believed God raised Jesus from the Dead. Not really that unreflective or uncritical.
@@Volcanic47 okay, cool, thank you for clarifying. Yea, I decided to spend less time listening to Peterson after those comments. Although on the surface his comments seem to support religion, I actually think they deny it. Just listen to his attempts to not explain the Resurrection.
20:01 "It happened" Thats because you believe in it (faith). In practice, "I act as if God exist" Peterson. What is thw difference between what you belive (faith), what you claim to believe, what you say you believe? Didn't Jesus say “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." "Act as.." = "does the.." Gin,
I loved those Harris/Peterson debates. Particularly the points that are made about not aiming a gun at someone even when you think it’s unloaded. Demonstrating the practicality of religious stories that can’t be proved via science.
I think we all have to deal with the question, 'and who do you say I am?' - the answer to this is a life challenging & changing, sometimes terrifying and sometimes comforting thing. It's not only answering who Jesus is but also a very ground shaking notion of our own identity in light of the realisation. Peter said when asked about the hard teaching on the Eucharist, 'Lord, to whom shall we go?' In other words, there is no other. This in and of itself goes hand in hand with Jesus saying He is the way, the 'truth' & the life. It's easier to live on the surface of ourselves and perhaps many of us ask 'what is truth', like Pilate. Answering that question, and accepting that there is a truly 'Holy God' who loves us makes us have to answer truths about ourselves in relation to how we choose to live, examine our relationships etc with this knowledge. That can be a frightening thing sometimes in a world that relativism is a very wide path that many are on.
Super super interesting analysis. I think I’m incidentally Kantian. When I get frustrated with what I perceive to be trivialities or arbitrary and ineffectual practices in the Christian faith, or struggle with any real sense of relationship to a real God, I fall back on the “regulative idea” approach.
Huge thanks Bishop Barron for this awesome video! From Jordan Peterson's teachings I am learning a lot as to how person of an 'integrated personality' sees human behaviours and expresses different facets of it. All Christians must do well to give due important to Sciences, very specifically to behavioural sciences. My prayers of course that Sir Peterson may have an encounter with Jesus as well.
If God did not become Man, did He have a son? Since He is able to do all things, He should be able to have a son. However, this claim reduces God to the lowly status of His creation. Creatures procreate by giving birth to mini versions of themselves that later grow up and reproduce copies of themselves, and so on and so forth. Dogs have puppies, cats have kittens, cows have calves, and men have children. So, what does God have - a baby God? Gods must give birth to Gods. But, for God to have a son, there has to exist another God besides Him. It is not befitting for God to have a son as such an act equates Him with His creation. Everything other than God comes into existence by the commandment of God, not that God becomes His creation or a part of God becomes creation. God does not become His creation nor does God give birth to creation. God is God, the Creator, and man and the contents of the universe are His creation. Although humans cannot grasp the concept of creation from nothing, that is exactly what God did and does. He alone creates from nothing, which is among the attributes that make Him unique and distinct from His creation. His act of creation is entirely different from that of human beings. This was the essence of the message of all the true messengers and prophets of God sent to humanity - Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad - as well as those sent throughout the world whose names are now unknown to humanity - may God’s peace and blessings be on them all. Today, this precise message can only be found in the Quran; the last scripture revealed by God to humankind. The message remains loud and clear only in the Quran because it has remained unchanged since the time of its revelation, one thousand four hundred years ago, until today. God states in the Quran for those who make Him like His creation or vice versa: “…There is nothing similar to Him...” (Quran 42:11) He also states for those who attributed to Him a son: “But it is not suitable for Ar-Rahman (the Most Beneficent - God) that He should beget a child.” (Quran 19:92) He further states for those who believe that He created the world from Himself: “If He wishes anything to exist, He merely commands it: ‘Be’, and it is.” (Quran 36:82) For the polytheists He states: “…There was no other god along with Him, for if there were each would have taken away what he created and tried to overcome the other…” (Quran 23:91) He asks the atheists: “Did nothing create them or did they create themselves?” (Quran 52:35) And in reference to Jesus and his mother, Mary, He confirmed their humanity by saying simply: “…They both used to eat food…” (Quran 5:75) The concept of God not becoming man is very important for every human being to grasp because it lies at the foundation of the difference between Islam and all other existing religions. All other religions have a distorted concept of God, to one degree or another. The most important idea which needs to be understood, is that God did not become man. God is unique; He alone deserves to be worshipped by His creation. To believe that a man is God or that a man became God and to worship that man is the greatest sin and the greatest evil that humans can do on this earth. This understanding is most important because it forms the foundation for salvation. There can be no salvation without it. However, this belief alone is not the key salvation. True, correct belief must be translated into practice, and not merely remain in the realm of knowledge, for it to become pure faith. A person has to live a righteous life based on the correct belief to attain salvation. Nevertheless, the starting point is, knowing who God is, knowing that God never became and will never become a human being.
Malak Yosre The Father,Son and the Holy Spirit = God Jesus was not a prophet. He said I am the son of God He declared that and because of that he was crucified but he had to die because he would become the ultimate sacrifice in order to save the souls of the world. God sent so many prophets before him and none could do His will. They all failed. Why? Because they were human. By making His word flesh was the only way for salvation. No other prophet before him did the miracles he performed. He brought a man back from death, that was through the power of his Father. There were thousands that witnessed His miracles. I feel blessed to know the Truth. I am a sinner but every day I trey to be the best human I can be but I still fall short of the glory of God but because of the death and Resurrection of His son I know I am saved. My Faith in Jesus has saved me. I pray for all non believers that maybe at the hour of their death, the Father has mercy on their souls and may they come to know the Truth. Peace to you brother and may the Light Of The World shine upon you.
@@peacemaker-cx6dn MUSLIM PRAYER POSTURES FOUND IN THE BIBLE Prayer holds a very important place in the religion of Islam. It is the second pillar of Islam and the act of ritual prayer is performed five times every day. There is great power entrenched in the postures of prayer not the least of which is that it establishes and reinforces our connection to God. This is a connection that God Himself established when he created human beings. Our ancestor Adam was responsible for teaching his family how to worship God in the correct way which included praying. All the prophets and messengers God sent to the nations on earth spread the same message, "O my people, worship God, you have no other God but Him" (Quran 11:50). They all spoke words of wisdom, guiding the people and reminding them that God is One, without partners, sons or daughters. Most of the prophets mentioned in the Quran are recognisable to people of the Christian and Jewish faiths and they all prayed in much the same way that Muslims pray today. Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, is the final Prophet and that his mission and message was slightly different to the message of all the prophets before him. While each prophet was sent specifically to guide his own nation, Prophet Muhammad was sent to guide all of humankind. He said, "Every prophet was sent to his nation exclusively, but I was sent to all mankind".[1] Once we understand the connection between all the prophets of God it is not surprising to learn that they all prayed in basically the same way. What is surprising however is that even though there are descriptions of prayer in the Bible, Christians and Jews no longer pray the way their own prophets prayed. The remainder of this article will examine passages from various books of the Bible and compare them to the way Muslims pray. The most recognisable posture in the Muslim prayer is touching the forehead to the ground. It is the apex of a person’s prayer and it is mentioned in the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad as the position in which a believer is as close to God as it is possible to be. "The nearest one comes to his Lord is when he is kowtowing."[2] Consider the following verses from the Bible.[3] "And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..." (Matthew 26:39) "And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..." (Joshua 5:14) "And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces…" (Numbers 20:6) "And Abraham fell on his face..." (Genesis 17:3) "…and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God." (Revelation 7:11) "…then they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground." (Nehemiah 8:6) "…Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces." (1 Chronicles 21:16) In many others places in the Bible where we find the method of prayer mentioned, it calls to mind the way Muslims pray. In the Bible book entitled Daniel we are able to read a description of Daniel praying to God in a time of great crisis. "Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did a foretime." (Daniel 6:10) It is interesting to note that Prophet Daniel prayed towards Jerusalem. In the early days of Prophet Mohammad’s mission the faithful also prayed towards Jerusalem. However the Muslim direction of prayer changed. About sixteen months after Prophet Muhammad and his followers migrated from Mecca to the city of Medina the direction was changed to facing the sacred House of God in Mecca. Descriptions of the positions Muslims adopt in the five ritual prayers per day can be found throughout the Bible. Many are mentioned in the book of Psalms. "Stand in awe, and sin not."(Psalms 4:4) "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker." (Psalms 95:6) "…all that go down to the dust shall bow before him…" (Psalms 22:29) And in the book of Kings we find Prophet Elijah casting himself upon the earth in the position of kneeling before touching the forehead to the ground. "…and he cast himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees." (1 Kings 18:42) This is a position very familiar to Muslims. So too is the position Jesus adopts during prayer in a moment of fear and uncertainty. "And he (Jesus) was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed." (Luke 22:41) Even though the Jews and Christians today do not pray as we read in the Bible, Muslims continue to pray in a similar way to the prophets, as intended by the Creator of the heavens and the earth.
@@peacemaker-cx6dn Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, and not all-knowing, since he had some limitations. Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown except few things: “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.” (Mark 6:5). Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (see Mark 8:22-26). Therefore, although we hold a great love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God. Mark’s Gospel also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge. In Mark 13:32, Jesus declared that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that (see also Matthew 24:36). Therefore, Jesus could not have been the all-knowing God. Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell. But that complicates matters further. Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell. Instead, he said that he does not know. We must believe him. Jesus does not lie at all. The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52). In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience. But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things. He knows everything always. So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God. Another example for the limited knowledge of Jesus is the fig tree episode in the Gospels. Mark tells us as follows: “The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.” (Mark 11:12-13). It is clear from these verses that the knowledge of Jesus was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees. Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2). Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6. Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).
I have a question for his Excellency. I just heard that a family applying for a spot for their child in a parochial school in Kansas City have had their application denied. The reason for the denial is that the parents are a same sex couple. The Pastor deferred to the bishop of Kansas City seeking his guidance on how to handle the application and the petition which is now circulating in the school community requesting that the school administration, the Pastor and the Bishop reverse their decision. I wonder if bishop Barron would speak to this issue.
Jordan peterson changed my life, thank you father for bringing attention to him, maybe thanks to him more people will find their way back to holy mother church as i did.
I want to know what Rene Girard would think about archetypes, considering that he believes mythology is built on collective violence. Perhaps they reveal a limited moral virtue, but Peterson misses many uniquely Christian virtues and themes (Grace, forgiveness, etc). Girard also grounds the historical necessity of revelation, and why narrative alone isn't enough.
Christ represents the archetype of the Messiah, but also the archetype of the Leader, the Savior and so much more. Like a real person, he represents archetypes within his life, but as the person, he is rightfully no archetype.
But the core of Christianity is the person of Christ, not the archetype. That's why it isn't just a modern version of Platonism. The archetype of the savior is no savior.
In his book "12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos", Peterson writes about his dream inside a Cathedral (Overture, p xxxii-xxxiii). Connect this to what he told you about his interest in reading books about the Cathedrals during the recent podcast with him, is he searching for the most profound meaning of that dream? Could his interest be considered a trajectory to his appreciation of the Beauty, Goodness, and Truth in the Catholic faith?
Many people (including myself) in America were raised with some kind of fundamentalist Christianity. Fire and brimstone, rapture, billions dead, you better make yourself right with God or else you're gonna burn, etc. Its taken me years to find my way out of that from the standpoint of religious education and spiritual contemplation. Now that I'm able to look back on it now from a more objective viewpoint, I tend to think that that kind of Christianity has undermined the religion as a whole and might have even provided some impetus for the efforts of the New Atheist crowd. I sometimes wonder, is that the weakness of Protestantism itself, or is it just because its something that's rooted in the stripped down (perhaps necessarily) Christianity that the colonists had during the Puritan days, back when American civilization was almost in a kind of mini-Dark Age? You almost see a reflection of that when you go into the really rural areas of America where the old "snake charming" fear-based Christianity is taught.
24:45 Wrong. What justifies someone to be christian? One who denies Yeshua Hamasiach, can claim he is a christian, can he? What people claim, say, does not change reality. It is what people do that change reality. Gin,
I once heard Jung said to Freud “I don’t get the catholic’s” Freud said “you won’t get the catholic’s they have confession” . Guilt can make people ill .
If i'm wrong, you are free to correct me. I get the impression that Mr. Peterson hasn't understood God's plan for us humans yet, which is to make us part of His family, to make us His sons and daughters, to live forever with Him, to enjoy His goodness continuously, to worship Him forever, to make us kings and priests to Him, to rule creation and manage His grace and mysteries, and of course, to love Him and everybody. Maybe he doesn't know the nature and the purpose of Christ's Church (His Body) which is formed by all believers. Kind of trying to see how the moral teachings of the Bible fit in the supposed evolutionist point of view of humanity. This is the mindset that i think Mr. Peterson has.
Bishop Barron states that there is plenty of space that we can explore in between fundamentalism (the shadow of religion) and chaotic relativism (the shadow of secularist rationalism). Some possible way in into this area of exploration is: Is the story of Jesus really the story of the archetype of a man pleasing God? Did Jesus really exist? Was Jesus, in his life, really the embodiment of the archetype of a man pleasing God? Is it possible for a man to fully embody an archetype? Can the archetype of the man pleasing God be fully embodied and enacted by a man? What all of this possible say about Jesus?
Aristotle - the GOLDEN MEAN. Moral behaviour is the MEAN between two extremes - at one end is excess, at the other deficiency. Find a moderate position between those two extremes, and you will be acting morally.
Before that Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson conversation happens I would say that Peterson needs a crash course in Aristotelian metaphysics. Without that Peterson's naturalism is going to keep bumping heads with the idea that such a thing as the Ressurection is even possible. Aristotle and St. Thomas' philosophy of nature lays the ground for something like that in a way that naturalism does and cannot.
This is good. I love, love, love JBP, but we also need to listen to how his approach to Jesus/God is also Kantian. :) I just met a very astute, good, ethical man on a plane, baptized Catholic, who goes to Mass every Sunday, but doesn't believe Jesus is God. Me: "So, you're not a Christian." He was shocked and showed me the cross around his neck. I asked him who he worshipped at Mass. He said: "Well, I don't go to church to worship, I go because I get a good feeling." He told me Jesus was the best moral teacher he knows and a very good man. Me: "But he was also either a liar or lunatic for claiming to be God. How could he also be a good, moral teacher at the same time?"
Still waiting for the dialogue between Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson. And, clearly, many, many others as well. But it needs to be a direct, one-on-one, in-depth, personal dialogue - not a debate, not a mediated conversation on "hot topics". Instead, a conversation on the fundamentals.
Everything Jordan Peterson says about life etc can be achieved without invoking the bible or God. I love this guy whose 12 rules for life and maps of meaning have worth and meaning on just about every aspect of life, but all of what he says can be achieved without religious invocations.
If, anything, Bishop Barron has demonstrated how much further everyone has to go in my education, to have this correct knowledge available, fluid and articulated to such an extent, that every Christian can convincingly represent the faith to unbelievers and naysayers.
Dr Peterson has the high moral ground when it comes to any Catholic Church official. I’m sure this bishop is a good man but the history of the Catholic Church both ancient and recent, for me, takes away any relevance. The bishop would do well to study Dr. Peterson’s work.
Jordon Peterson say he acts as though God exists. Not a bad idea. It's probably the best most folks can do. Let's face it - Christians forever talk about their personal relationships with God but that's not much help for the 99% who never hear God whispering in their ears.
@@reasonablespeculation3893 > Depends on the instructions. If my name is Abraham and God instructs me to kill my son Isaac I would suspect that the orders are either fake or unlawful. If convinced that the order is authentic I'd probably regard God as an unfriendly who ought not be obeyed. Consider that people routinely blow themselves to atoms with explosives because they think God told them to. Such people would just as happily blow up the world if they had the means. Obeying the voices in one's head is risky business. History is full of people that got it wrong.
The point of acting like God exists means that you can't rationally process or explain it, but you know better than to suppress your irrational nature, so you act out your conscience even if you can't explain it. It's the only way for a highly Open to Experience person to be Conscientious. In a lot of ways you want to have your cake and eat it too, but in his case, the more you act out as if The Lord exists, the more insight you peek into the shadow of his absence, that is the price of high Intellect and poking your nose where it doesn't belong, it's what keeps you humble and grants the wisdom of the Lord in your Foolish pursuit of endless knowledge of the Stars of the Universe. PS: Lol, I wrote this nonsense before even watching the video, Father Barron essentially boiled it down to Kantian rationale, which I'm fine with, I never read Kant.
Tin Man .. If your God is Yahweh, most of the evidence describes him as irate, annoyed and extremely violent... The Canaanites and Amalekites could attest to that. So if the voice in your head clearly says thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, it's most likely God.
Peterson has said on a few occasions that the moral archetypal interpretation of the bible likely POINTS to an underlying metaphysical reality. Harris tried to rip this out of him and sort of missed it when he finally made the admission that he sort of mentally concludes what he acts out. I think JBP's focus doesn't quite fall within the scope of the metaphysical, so any serious exploration along these lines could be a mere distraction from the message he is attempting to deliver. Why open oneself to ad hominem attacks that weaken a position which can be had without said distraction?
Christian Fundamentalism usually refers to people who believe everything in the Bible is literal Truth. So for example, they tend to believe the Earth is roughly 6,000 years old, or that Moses lived to be 800 (something like that), since that is what the Old Testament says. Basically it's a way to classify people who strictly adhere to the literal word of Scripture, as opposed to people who may take more metaphorical interpretations.
I agree, but you have to understand that for many people it's not that easy. I'm a white South African so culturally accepting Christianity has always been easy. But for many colonised people Christianity is seen as part of colonialism. It took over local faiths. It destroyed customs related to that faith. It brougut with it "Christian" rulers who oppressed people. You have this constant idea of a Christianity as some foreign "other" dominating and taking over. I don't agree with this, but that's the perception. So for many people becoming Christian is seen in a way as subjecting yourself to some foreign evil and abandoning your culture
@English Teacher I'm American but of Indian, Catholic origin like the guy who asked the question. You are correct, the culture I was raised in is dramatically different from those cultures which have Christianity at its root. For example, in the Indian (and I've noticed in African culture as well) there is a proclivity towards violence as a form of discipline. We see this most towards children. They ought to realize consequentialism is opposed to Christian love. But we in India have been surrounded by Hindus for millenia so we didn't know any better. And worse, we thought we did. No one knows any better until the love of Jesus transforms every part of your life. My mother used to hit me, bless her, but I don't lay a finger on my two girls (to my mother and MIL's detriment). As I got older, my mother (and father) would have me say the prayer for humility and take me to church every Sunday. That's what started me on this beautiful, captivating journey towards the Objective Truth. I'm so far from a model mother, but I'm doing everything in my power to be better and I know only the grace of God will save me and my children from the veil of deception. My point is, I never realized the apparent cultural disparity was in fact a religious one. Now since the early 1970s when the US decided to permit abortion and contraception, culture has deteriorated rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised if on the fringes of American society there's a reactionary increase (because they blame the non-assimilation of foreign culture and possibly lower collective IQ of some other races) in the number of those alt-right, "conservative", white supremecists. If they don't realize Western culture is great because it is Christian and not because it's Caucasian, they're in for it. If they don't toss out the contraception, they're tossing out their nation. Those Caucasian Americans are just as responsible as those other races infiltrating the US with idiot cultures. They have created their own moral vacuum. We all need to turn to Catholicism, stat. Our loyalty, whatever our race or culture, should be to the new Israel.
@English Teacher Christianity includes Judaism, so yes, I would argue if in fact the disparity is deeply religious at it's root, as I've come to believe, it's a Christian one. We can say Judeo-Christian, if you insist, but the term is redundant for Christians. I do despise current toxic femininity and the rampant racism from the media and SJWs against Christian straight, white males. I do think it's worth bearing in mind, though, that the descendants of 12 tribes of Israel (Europeans, if we take your claims to be true) aren't the only victims of the zeitgeist. It's bloodlust is directed at all effective proponents of conservative, Christian values. Makes sense, since satan has dominion over the Earth.
Very well done, Bishop Baron. I agree, Petersen is Jung and Kant rolled into one Sorry, though Gandhi was thoroughly inspired by Jesus ( my Lord and yours too) and accepted his divinity ( one of many sons of God), his ideas of non-violence came from Jainism. Sam Harris talks about Jainism as a perfect religion without understanding much of its basic assumptions. To begin with, Jainism does not believe in a personal or impersonal God although they subscribe to the principle of Karma. Would Sam Harris accept as an idea. He works on consciousness which Francis Schaffer dismisses ( Patiencd witj God) as wishywashy nonsense whiich pleases me.
I think to convert Peterson, you need to introduce Tolkien to him. Because Tolkien talks about myths, facts, and how myths present a supernatural truth to our imprisoned minds
I've been Blessed with the knowing, God is. It wasn't the Bible who needed tell me so! Last March 8th, 2018, (Anniverary of her passing) as I Prayed my Mom was sleeping in God's hand? I felt the feeling, ( familiar to me),...pressure, and took photos of the sky swirling into two letters, M A! As clear as if written on a chalkboard by Sister Angelas at Racine Wisconsin's St. Joes School. I find Mr. Peterson's faith in Jesus to be affirmed, if not his affiliations with a certain church. I'd love for him or anyone to tell me what to do with the Proof of not only I AM's Existence but Proof He hears our Prayers, and that He Answers. The Trinity Blessed my Prayers for Double Reignbows over half a dozen times. Has saved me as often when, evil non believing folks have tried harming my son and I, dropping His sky from blue into black, ever since I was 5 to now at 61. If I can't Prove it? I don't mention it... Why hasn't New York been bombarded by a Billion Christians descending to stop the Partial Birth Murders, by our current Pope, every Cardinal, and Priest gathered Christian Worldwide? Why are the same being Silent about the Dangers of 5G? Older people need to let the young, (I'm 61, an Anti Vatican II Cradle Catholic, so know what my Church was, as the young DON'T!), to dream... I see the future degradation of A1, s being accepted as if they AREN'T SOULLESS machines. Do these, [¿~*sorosians☆*# ] think the Innocent Souls of their Murdered/Aborted can be transferred? As if God Almighty wouldn't know who was born in His Image? (It's the base of my next crazy sounding book) I've sounded crazy ringing my bells and hammer of warning before, until it's proven I'm right. God knows how I've tried! You must admit that A1 Sophia the robot being Baptised, would be the Grandfather of all their... Machiavellian MACHINations. PRAY with me that I'm wrong this time. That it's all due to of my Hometown, or my Mom's, Herzogenhauerach Deutschland's Jews...
I hope that Barron and Peterson may someday talk face to face. There really is no other way to bridge the gulf, if bridging be possible. At any rate they will share the opportunity civilly to agree to disagree.
Before listening: I was a little disturbed when Peterson said that "You can't just say to people in the modern world, 'No sex till you're married.'" He says this in a RUclips video entitled, "Abortion is clearly wrong. But it's not that simple."
Peterson also said perhaps in the same video that there is a big technical problem involved in that women know about birth control. There are many technical problems involved with sex in general!
The Hindu question is disingenuous. Hindus are not more tolerant than Christians; the British Empire ended slavery, and sathi, where widows were burned alive on their husbands' funeral pyres. Hinduism justifies the oppression of the poor by saying they deserve their lot in life. Worst of all, Hinduism has a serious problem with possession, which you only hear about when you talk with them personally.
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
Peterson's greatest worth is that he has made Biblical teaching accessible, engaging and intellectually serious to a widespread audience -- many of whom would otherwise be disinterested or dismissive of Christianity. Seeing the Bible, even from the theoretical and archetypal view, as an antidote to the utterly devastating moral / spiritual nihilism of our age is drawing a great many people back to the faith (myself included).
@BarkyLondon I completely agree with you.
I’m really glad to hear you’ve come back to the faith. Would you mind sharing the process? Thanks
wow. well stated. Thanks.
You might want to check this channel out from a youtuber with a similar experience who is critiquing "12 rules" and "jordanetics" ruclips.net/video/mQYTsdkRbIQ/видео.html
Barky London: JBP asserts SOME Christian ethics (accepts homosexuality and abortion) but asserts that the Existence of God or Jesus Christ or His and our Resurrection) is NOT necessary. Nietzsche and St. Paul saw the futility of such an endeavor.
1 Corinthians 15:12-19 New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead
12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. In other words, JBP should be pitied for believing something which is grounded in nothing..
Nietzsche ridiculed the Victorians and other Bourgeoisie who believed that one can retain Christian ethics and morality and jettison the Christian religion in which the former is grounded.
Illustrates precisely why the book is first all people at all times. Relevant, always....just needs practical exposition.
Loved Peterson’s lectures on Genesis and can’t wait for Exodus. I can see why some more exacting Catholics are not into him, but his work really inspired me to return to the church.
@Brian N I've always been a Catholic and I really like JBP. He explains ideas I already share in a completely new way to me, so he makes me think over them.
Glad you returned to the Church! No better place :)
He who is well do not need a physician.
His work inspired me to investigate the Church (raised Protestant; agnostic since 19,20 yrs old).
@@oambitiousone7100 : Should I be glad for the church ?
Same, I am soon to go through Orthodox Catechis because of first JPB, then more importantly Jonathon Pageau's symbolism lectures.
Bishop Barron’s points are great. To build from the ethic and archetype to the flesh is essential. Peterson did, however, enrich my understanding of our own myths and narratives, and in so doing, reinforced my faith, helped refine my concept of belief, and elucidated my concept of Roman Catholicism in its best moments as a profoundly human, deeply philosophical, affirming and moderate tradition.
“Pure reason just can’t reach these things.” Exactly!
Bishop Barron, when are you going to interview Jordan Peterson in person? Looking forward to getting you two together...and one last thing, Go Redwings!
I think Dave Rubin is setting up a meeting for them sometime.
@@TheLeadhound I really hope so.
The bishop is a Blackhawks fan, TYVM
I hear that it will be soon! I wanted Bishop Barron to be part of the ITDW.
Sr. Helena Burns Yes I am sure he is a Blackhawk fan as am I, but I high school we were both Redwings...as in Benet Redwings 77. 🙂
I can't wait to see Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson sitting together having a conversation. I deeply admire both, and I think that Peterson's intellectual honesty is a key in any approach to truth.
It's the "true myth" as described by Tolkien and Lewis. Logos became flesh.
.. and man forgot that shall not live by bread alone ?
Yes! Saw JP a couple of weeks ago and felt sadder in person because he is just short of pushing into the deeper truth that Christ is the myth come alive and is who He says He is.
The profundity of the myth must be reawakened before gravity of its reality can be appreciated...as it was with our ancestors. JP has an important role to play here.
@@DonkeyKong8 : I don't see how you differ your ancestors from our forefathers. I know I have 10 shares inheritance not 10% by your associations. JP has nothing on Me
@@DonkeyKong8 I agree with you.
One of my favourite thinkers discussing one of my favourite thinkers
I'm waiting for these dialogue. Congratulations Bishop Barron , your wisdom is incredible.
The contemplative practices.....take you even deeper.
Lectio Divina, the Rosary, Centering Prayer, etc.
The sacrament of the present moment.
The Eucharist itself even.
As a non-believer ( raised as a Roman Catholic), I like how Peterson tries to figure out the inherent wisdom in Scripture (and not just the Christian stories). This makes sense. Scriptural accounts are ancient and pervasive. We have clung to them because they attempt to enhance our survival and reduce our suffering in an often hostile world. Peterson puts scriptural accounts into meaningful and pragmatic origin scenarios. I eagerly anticipate a podcast of Bishop Barron and Professor Peterson.
JBP knows believing in the real life of Jesus would lead to prayer. Prayer would transform his well trained scientific mind and put him on the unfamiliar side of Lessing’s gulf. Very scary indeed. He does humanity a great service from his side of the gulf. Be gentle Father.
Humble Joes , Bishop Barron is very gentle and careful which makes him a very responsible leader.
I think leading JBP to the Holy Spirit and the Eucharist would only allow God to do greater things through him.
Peterson talks about prayer a lot.
Humble Joes: A person (JPB) who does not believe that Jesus Christ existed in contrast to the overwhelming historical evidence is NOT "a well trained scientific mind". JBP is no different than Holocaust deniers......
JBP does great harm to humanity because he asserts that science, not belief in God and His Revelation will save humanity. This was tried in the late 19th and early twentieth centuries and led to Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.
@@Goodkidjr43 Yeah that's a lie. He does believe Jesus was a real historical person, and has NEVER asserted some kind of human salvation found in science. His interest is in understanding archetypes, and myths. He has no interest in promoting a complete Christian, or Catholic social domination on everything in social, and political life. Like you, and the fundamentalists would like. When he says myth what he means is narrative he isn't claiming true or false. He's reading the mental substrate behind said "myth". I am no Christian, but I am avidly in your favor when you have been oppressed, and avidly against you when you attempt to oppress that is to say claim no-one but you is competent in making the world better; which ALOT(not most) of you CONTINUE to do.
@@Goodkidjr43 awful, awful take. wrong on so many levels. begone russian bot!
For the listener that called and asked and compared Christianity to Hindu being more peaceful. First of ALL we Catholic Christian follow Our Lord Jesus, that means we carry the Cross and sometimes we Catholic forget that but God will give us strength to continue. Someone once told me this person was a convert from Protestant and he said, being a Catholic is harder because as soon as he converted things got harder. Well that shows we follow the right path. ✌
The test of a religion isn’t the amount of “peace” it brings, rather the amount of truth it contains. Christ Himself said he came not to bring peace but a sword, by which He means that His teachings would divide men like wheat from the chaff. Christians are persecuted because their beliefs have real meat to them. Its not fluff like Hinduism or Buddhism.
I wish you had touched upon the following with regards to the caller question:
1) Even if it were true that 'Hindu' civilization had fewer wars and violence (which is debatable), they were also much more restrictive and rigidly stratifying. We did not form the same form of Caste system in the West that formed in India, partially because, unlike in Hinduism, peasants and kings are put on the same spiritual footing. According to Hindu beliefs, one of the reasons the rich and powerful were born into a higher class is because they were spiritually superior to others. Christians believed everyone started on the same spiritual footing from birth and are subject to the same judgment in death, regardless of their station in life. By having your class be considered ordained by the gods based on YOUR own actions in a previous life and stating that fighting/denying this in any way will only further condemn you in the next life, it reduces the social unrest between classes that you might normally see in a freer society.
2) Even though there were different rulers, most of India was culturally indistinct from the rest. In Europe you had a small space of extremely disparate cultures living side by side. Is it not likely that THIS is more responsible for greater number of wars between Christian Kingdoms, rather than an inherent trait of Christianity?
3) British taking India as a colony was not BECAUSE they were Christian. Colonies and Tributary states (India was closer to a tributary state than a colony) have existed for thousands of years. Indians also conquered other places when they could, so it is not a 'feature' of Western Christianity.
4) Slavery was ENDED by the Christian West, and not by any other civilization. In fact, many MODERN DAY Indians seem to still support that institution, so much so that India has the MOST modern day slaves in the world, so I find it laughable to use THAT as an attack on Western Christianity.
5) The holocaust.... the West wasn't the first and won't be the last civilization to have genocide as a feature in its history. The holocaust was performed in direct contradiction of Christianity, which is why we found it so horrific and allow ourselves to be brow-beaten over this unjust attack.
Dr. Peterson describes himself as a Phenomenologist with regard to his philosophy. I believe that the writings of Edith Stein, JP2 and Ratzinger would provide the best intersection for Peterson and his audience.
JP2? Is he friends with C3PO and R2D2?
Henry Swanson John Paul 2. Not a reggae/dancehall singer nor a robot.
@@ThomCoe .
Not a reggae/dancehall singer ?
C3PO ? I am a big reggae fan, but have never heard of any artist with a name like that.
I was thinking the same😊
Thom Coe lol, I know, I was just kidding.
Bishop and Brandon, thanks for another great Peterson discussion! I think he evades the metaphysical question in similar fashion to Viktor Frankl, who wanted his theory to stand apart from whatever his personal belief system is, and to avoid being labeled or typecasted. Peterson is very sharp and knows his lane is as a psychologist not a theologian. He speaks about what he knows and doesn’t venture into areas he has not sufficiently studied. The bracketing technique is common in qualitative forms of psychological inquiry: state your limitations and biases upfront and then get to what you found in the research. And yes, I would love to see a Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson convo! God bless
Great insight. And solid video on jp's thoughts. Can't wait for you two to meet!
Bishop Barron, if you miraculously happen to see this, I hope you'd consider applying a Girardian critique of Jung and Peterson. I always wondered what a serious engagement between all of those thinkers would look like.
Maybe I have a simple faith, Jesus was born, lived , died and came back to life. He did this so that I should have life and have it to the full. Jesus wasn’t complex in that his message is straight forward in that we need to love our neighbour like ourselves and to love God. It makes my heart weep the way the world operates on self absorbed way. I love to meet people who strive to love like Jesus. They are there and it excites my spirit.
What is the name of the professor at Loyola MaryMount LA that you mentioned? At 18:39
I wanted to clarify my question at the end (23:25) of the show.
The statements I was attributing to my Hindu friends were hypothetical, and were based on some of the arguments that I have heard elsewhere.
My question was in the context of Bishop Barron's recent talks/book about arguing religion, and I was looking for an appropriate response.
One of the points Bishop Barron makes is that people ask questions from a frame of reference that is biased, but often there is some truth to what they are saying. Our response, in Christian charity ought to get to that kernel of truth, so that we can clear any misunderstanding, instead of proving the other person wrong, which he/she very well might be. I thought Bishop Barron's answer was simple and direct. I suspect even he did not get the true intent of my question, which makes his answer even more genuine!
Case in point where things went awfully wrong while arguing religion - I was following the trail of comments to a RUclips trailer of "The Least of These: The Graham Staines Story" about an Australian missionary and his two sons who were burnt to death in India. The comments are laced with obscenities. Both sides of the fence fared badly, attacking each others religion, and I would say everyone came out alienated even further.
Good question. You could've used Buddhism or Jainism which has much less violence history compared to Hinduism. But I'm not convinced with his answer though. Felt more like an evasion
I like Bishop Barron a lot. I think that Catholicism, particularly today has found a very able spokesman for what I like to call enlightened orthodoxy. I find his approach akin to that of many writers and teachers esp. in Tibetan Buddhism who are the proponents of what is being termed Modern Buddhism. This discussion about bracketing metaphysics is the perfect place to watch another form of bracketing which I find Bishop Barron and some Buddhist teachers share with fundamentalists of every stripe. I was fine with this interview right up to the moment when Barron, in his own words appeared rather “flip” in answering a question by declaring that Christianity is true. Christianity is true as opposed to Hinduism which is false? Not false as in an evil perversion of the Truth but false as in, “those poor buggers over there they just haven’t had the good fortune to have embraced Jesus, the Christ as the supreme example of a being truly pleasing to God.”
Statements like God is real; Jesus is real; the resurrection from the dead is real stagger me with a level of incongruity that is in stark contrast with his previously enlightened stance. Peterson points out along with Voltaire that uncertainty, the dance between the chaos of Pure Reason and the order of Thomistic practical reason is an uncomfortable position. Out of that discomfort emerged the great narratives of our society including the Bible. Voltaire and Peterson go on to point out however that a position of certainty esp. of the type Bishop Barron is offering is an absurd one.
Beware of false teaching.
Lord have Mercy on us. Amen.
Greeting from Indonesia
Outstanding discussion. Here is how I have suggested to Jordan Peterson that he might bridge Lessing's Gap. It is to grapple with Jesus' questions to his disciples about his identity. First, "Who do men say that I am?" The answer is, perhaps, an historical one, one which deals with an objective reality, regardless of whether the answer is acceptable to all observers. Now, the second and far more important question, "But, who do you say that I am?" The "but" here is absolutely critical. Jesus is saying "There are two ways to perceive who I am, and only one of these really matters in the long run." Jordan Peterson needs to answer both questions as honestly as he can. Yes, Jesus is an archetype of the person who completely fulfills the will of God. But... he is more than that. He is... well, what insight does this same passage say had been revealed - revealed - to Peter? This is what Jordan needs to ponder.
It would be so epic if Fr. Robert Barron and Jordan Peterson could talk. They are both very smart and an intellectual conversation between the both of them would be very interesting indeed.
I don't know that Christianity was all that unreflective. If you've read the Letters of Paul he is pretty harsh about demanding the 1st century believers figure out how to think and act like they believed God raised Jesus from the Dead. Not really that unreflective or uncritical.
Acting like God exists is ridiculous. What is acting in that context? Fakery.
@@Volcanic47 nope, I didn't say act like God exists. I said act (take actions) that demonstrate they believe Jesus was raised from the dead by God.
@@darrelmiller8865 Sorry, I was referring to Peterson's comments on it more than yours specifically. Should have made that clearer, my bad.
Isn’t the entirety of Christianity pro self reflection in a sense...forgiveness, repentance, salvation.
@@Volcanic47 okay, cool, thank you for clarifying. Yea, I decided to spend less time listening to Peterson after those comments. Although on the surface his comments seem to support religion, I actually think they deny it. Just listen to his attempts to not explain the Resurrection.
20:01
"It happened"
Thats because you believe in it (faith).
In practice, "I act as if God exist" Peterson.
What is thw difference between what you belive (faith), what you claim to believe, what you say you believe?
Didn't Jesus say “Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."
"Act as.." = "does the.."
Gin,
great, intelligent critique. please do more in the future.
So when are you going to have a meeting talk with Peterson. Would find this very interesting!
Would love to listen to a conversation between B Barron and JP
definitely!
If its possible for Bishop Baron to have an online discussion with Dr Peterson or invite him on ewtn I would like to watch it.
I loved those Harris/Peterson debates. Particularly the points that are made about not aiming a gun at someone even when you think it’s unloaded. Demonstrating the practicality of religious stories that can’t be proved via science.
I think we all have to deal with the question, 'and who do you say I am?' - the answer to this is a life challenging & changing, sometimes terrifying and sometimes comforting thing. It's not only answering who Jesus is but also a very ground shaking notion of our own identity in light of the realisation.
Peter said when asked about the hard teaching on the Eucharist, 'Lord, to whom shall we go?' In other words, there is no other. This in and of itself goes hand in hand with Jesus saying He is the way, the 'truth' & the life. It's easier to live on the surface of ourselves and perhaps many of us ask 'what is truth', like Pilate. Answering that question, and accepting that there is a truly 'Holy God' who loves us makes us have to answer truths about ourselves in relation to how we choose to live, examine our relationships etc with this knowledge. That can be a frightening thing sometimes in a world that relativism is a very wide path that many are on.
I would sooo love to see a one on one discussion with Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson
Just because JP talks about the Bible does not make him a Christian.
Super super interesting analysis. I think I’m incidentally Kantian. When I get frustrated with what I perceive to be trivialities or arbitrary and ineffectual practices in the Christian faith, or struggle with any real sense of relationship to a real God, I fall back on the “regulative idea” approach.
What’s the name of the Dominican priest at 6:40?
You didnt happen to catch the professor friend of his at LMU, did you? David something? At 18:39
Bishop, I would love to see you have a chat with him, maybe on Rubin's show as they are close.
Huge thanks Bishop Barron for this awesome video!
From Jordan Peterson's teachings I am learning a lot as to how person of an 'integrated personality' sees human behaviours and expresses different facets of it.
All Christians must do well to give due important to Sciences, very specifically to behavioural sciences. My prayers of course that Sir Peterson may have an encounter with Jesus as well.
So who has the cooler map in the background?
Is the one behind Brandon the map of Middle Earth?
@@jakfan09 Yes
@@csm8245 Brandon's then.
Any former atheists here?? "Converted" in part by Dr. Peterson??
Right here.
If God did not become Man, did He have a son? Since He is able to do all things, He should be able to have a son. However, this claim reduces God to the lowly status of His creation. Creatures procreate by giving birth to mini versions of themselves that later grow up and reproduce copies of themselves, and so on and so forth. Dogs have puppies, cats have kittens, cows have calves, and men have children. So, what does God have - a baby God? Gods must give birth to Gods. But, for God to have a son, there has to exist another God besides Him. It is not befitting for God to have a son as such an act equates Him with His creation.
Everything other than God comes into existence by the commandment of God, not that God becomes His creation or a part of God becomes creation. God does not become His creation nor does God give birth to creation. God is God, the Creator, and man and the contents of the universe are His creation. Although humans cannot grasp the concept of creation from nothing, that is exactly what God did and does. He alone creates from nothing, which is among the attributes that make Him unique and distinct from His creation. His act of creation is entirely different from that of human beings.
This was the essence of the message of all the true messengers and prophets of God sent to humanity - Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad - as well as those sent throughout the world whose names are now unknown to humanity - may God’s peace and blessings be on them all. Today, this precise message can only be found in the Quran; the last scripture revealed by God to humankind. The message remains loud and clear only in the Quran because it has remained unchanged since the time of its revelation, one thousand four hundred years ago, until today.
God states in the Quran for those who make Him like His creation or vice versa:
“…There is nothing similar to Him...” (Quran 42:11)
He also states for those who attributed to Him a son:
“But it is not suitable for Ar-Rahman (the Most Beneficent - God) that He should beget a child.” (Quran 19:92)
He further states for those who believe that He created the world from Himself:
“If He wishes anything to exist, He merely commands it: ‘Be’, and it is.” (Quran 36:82)
For the polytheists He states:
“…There was no other god along with Him, for if there were each would have taken away what he created and tried to overcome the other…” (Quran 23:91)
He asks the atheists:
“Did nothing create them or did they create themselves?” (Quran 52:35)
And in reference to Jesus and his mother, Mary, He confirmed their humanity by saying simply:
“…They both used to eat food…” (Quran 5:75)
The concept of God not becoming man is very important for every human being to grasp because it lies at the foundation of the difference between Islam and all other existing religions. All other religions have a distorted concept of God, to one degree or another. The most important idea which needs to be understood, is that God did not become man. God is unique; He alone deserves to be worshipped by His creation. To believe that a man is God or that a man became God and to worship that man is the greatest sin and the greatest evil that humans can do on this earth. This understanding is most important because it forms the foundation for salvation. There can be no salvation without it. However, this belief alone is not the key salvation. True, correct belief must be translated into practice, and not merely remain in the realm of knowledge, for it to become pure faith. A person has to live a righteous life based on the correct belief to attain salvation. Nevertheless, the starting point is, knowing who God is, knowing that God never became and will never become a human being.
Malak Yosre The Father,Son and the Holy Spirit = God Jesus was not a prophet. He said I am the son of God He declared that and because of that he was crucified but he had to die because he would become the ultimate sacrifice in order to save the souls of the world. God sent so many prophets before him and none could do His will. They all failed. Why? Because they were human. By making His word flesh was the only way for salvation. No other prophet before him did the miracles he performed. He brought a man back from death, that was through the power of his Father. There were thousands that witnessed His miracles. I feel blessed to know the Truth. I am a sinner but every day I trey to be the best human I can be but I still fall short of the glory of God but because of the death and Resurrection of His son I know I am saved. My Faith in Jesus has saved me. I pray for all non believers that maybe at the hour of their death, the Father has mercy on their souls and may they come to know the Truth. Peace to you brother and may the Light Of The World shine upon you.
@@peacemaker-cx6dn MUSLIM PRAYER POSTURES FOUND IN THE BIBLE
Prayer holds a very important place in the religion of Islam. It is the second pillar of Islam and the act of ritual prayer is performed five times every day. There is great power entrenched in the postures of prayer not the least of which is that it establishes and reinforces our connection to God. This is a connection that God Himself established when he created human beings. Our ancestor Adam was responsible for teaching his family how to worship God in the correct way which included praying.
All the prophets and messengers God sent to the nations on earth spread the same message, "O my people, worship God, you have no other God but Him" (Quran 11:50). They all spoke words of wisdom, guiding the people and reminding them that God is One, without partners, sons or daughters. Most of the prophets mentioned in the Quran are recognisable to people of the Christian and Jewish faiths and they all prayed in much the same way that Muslims pray today.
Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, is the final Prophet and that his mission and message was slightly different to the message of all the prophets before him. While each prophet was sent specifically to guide his own nation, Prophet Muhammad was sent to guide all of humankind. He said, "Every prophet was sent to his nation exclusively, but I was sent to all mankind".[1] Once we understand the connection between all the prophets of God it is not surprising to learn that they all prayed in basically the same way. What is surprising however is that even though there are descriptions of prayer in the Bible, Christians and Jews no longer pray the way their own prophets prayed.
The remainder of this article will examine passages from various books of the Bible and compare them to the way Muslims pray.
The most recognisable posture in the Muslim prayer is touching the forehead to the ground. It is the apex of a person’s prayer and it is mentioned in the authentic traditions of Prophet Muhammad as the position in which a believer is as close to God as it is possible to be. "The nearest one comes to his Lord is when he is kowtowing."[2] Consider the following verses from the Bible.[3]
"And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..." (Matthew 26:39)
"And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..." (Joshua 5:14)
"And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces…" (Numbers 20:6)
"And Abraham fell on his face..." (Genesis 17:3)
"…and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God." (Revelation 7:11)
"…then they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground." (Nehemiah 8:6)
"…Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces." (1 Chronicles 21:16)
In many others places in the Bible where we find the method of prayer mentioned, it calls to mind the way Muslims pray. In the Bible book entitled Daniel we are able to read a description of Daniel praying to God in a time of great crisis.
"Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did a foretime." (Daniel 6:10)
It is interesting to note that Prophet Daniel prayed towards Jerusalem. In the early days of Prophet Mohammad’s mission the faithful also prayed towards Jerusalem. However the Muslim direction of prayer changed. About sixteen months after Prophet Muhammad and his followers migrated from Mecca to the city of Medina the direction was changed to facing the sacred House of God in Mecca.
Descriptions of the positions Muslims adopt in the five ritual prayers per day can be found throughout the Bible. Many are mentioned in the book of Psalms.
"Stand in awe, and sin not."(Psalms 4:4)
"O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker." (Psalms 95:6)
"…all that go down to the dust shall bow before him…" (Psalms 22:29)
And in the book of Kings we find Prophet Elijah casting himself upon the earth in the position of kneeling before touching the forehead to the ground.
"…and he cast himself down upon the earth, and put his face between his knees." (1 Kings 18:42)
This is a position very familiar to Muslims. So too is the position Jesus adopts during prayer in a moment of fear and uncertainty.
"And he (Jesus) was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed." (Luke 22:41)
Even though the Jews and Christians today do not pray as we read in the Bible, Muslims continue to pray in a similar way to the prophets, as intended by the Creator of the heavens and the earth.
@@peacemaker-cx6dn Christians and Muslims agree that God is all-powerful and all-knowing. The Gospels show that Jesus was not all-powerful, and not all-knowing, since he had some limitations.
Mark tells us in his gospel that Jesus was unable to do any powerful work in his hometown except few things: “He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them.” (Mark 6:5). Mark also tells us that when Jesus tried to heal a certain blind man, the man was not healed after the first attempt, and Jesus had to try a second time (see Mark 8:22-26).
Therefore, although we hold a great love and respect for Jesus, we need to understand that he is not the all-powerful God.
Mark’s Gospel also reveals that Jesus had limitations in his knowledge. In Mark 13:32, Jesus declared that he himself does not know when the last day will occur, but the Father alone knows that (see also Matthew 24:36).
Therefore, Jesus could not have been the all-knowing God. Some will say that Jesus knew when the last day will occur, but he chose not to tell. But that complicates matters further. Jesus could have said that he knows but he does not wish to tell. Instead, he said that he does not know. We must believe him. Jesus does not lie at all.
The Gospel of Luke also reveals that Jesus had limited knowledge. Luke says that Jesus increased in wisdom (Luke 2:52). In Hebrews too (Hebrews 5:8) we read that Jesus learned obedience. But God’s knowledge and wisdom is always perfect, and God does not learn new things. He knows everything always. So, if Jesus learned something new, that proves that he did not know everything before that, and thus he was not God.
Another example for the limited knowledge of Jesus is the fig tree episode in the Gospels. Mark tells us as follows: “The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs.” (Mark 11:12-13).
It is clear from these verses that the knowledge of Jesus was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, he did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.
Can he become God later? No! Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting (see Psalms 90:2).
Someone may say that Jesus was God but he took the form of a servant and therefore became limited. Well, that would mean that God changed. But God does not change. God said so according to Malachi 3:6.
Jesus never was God, and never will be. In the Bible, God declares: “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10).
YES! DO IT! Jordan Peterson and Bishop Barron would be so cool!
God bless you. All the best
I have a question for his Excellency. I just heard that a family applying for a spot for their child in a parochial school in Kansas City have had their application denied. The reason for the denial is that the parents are a same sex couple. The Pastor deferred to the bishop of Kansas City seeking his guidance on how to handle the application and the petition which is now circulating in the school community requesting that the school administration, the Pastor and the Bishop reverse their decision. I wonder if bishop Barron would speak to this issue.
Jordan peterson changed my life, thank you father for bringing attention to him, maybe thanks to him more people will find their way back to holy mother church as i did.
Peterson is saving the West.
eeeeh
@JT566 No he isn't. Go read Mark 9 starting at verse 38. He is bringing atheists back to the Church.
Too secular.
No he isn't lol
Jordan Peterson is probably doing good for young men to a certain extent. But there are many sound critiques of him on RUclips
Jordan Peterson is the best thing that happen to this world for long time
Anyone know where I can see a picture of that map behind Bishop Barron
I want to know what Rene Girard would think about archetypes, considering that he believes mythology is built on collective violence. Perhaps they reveal a limited moral virtue, but Peterson misses many uniquely Christian virtues and themes (Grace, forgiveness, etc). Girard also grounds the historical necessity of revelation, and why narrative alone isn't enough.
Yes!!! Peterson vs Bishop!!!! Can’t wait !!!!
I like how Peterson said it, paraphrased: I act as though He exists.
Chastity is not obsolete,chastity is always attractive!
You`ve been in Krakow? And I didn`t know it? Nooooooo. Much love from Poland, Bishop Robert
To quote David Bentley Hart, the archetype of Christ is NOT Christ.
Christ represents the archetype of the Messiah, but also the archetype of the Leader, the Savior and so much more. Like a real person, he represents archetypes within his life, but as the person, he is rightfully no archetype.
But the core of Christianity is the person of Christ, not the archetype. That's why it isn't just a modern version of Platonism. The archetype of the savior is no savior.
@Jack Clare I understand that.
In his book "12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos", Peterson writes about his dream inside a Cathedral (Overture, p xxxii-xxxiii). Connect this to what he told you about his interest in reading books about the Cathedrals during the recent podcast with him, is he searching for the most profound meaning of that dream? Could his interest be considered a trajectory to his appreciation of the Beauty, Goodness, and Truth in the Catholic faith?
Many people (including myself) in America were raised with some kind of fundamentalist Christianity. Fire and brimstone, rapture, billions dead, you better make yourself right with God or else you're gonna burn, etc. Its taken me years to find my way out of that from the standpoint of religious education and spiritual contemplation. Now that I'm able to look back on it now from a more objective viewpoint, I tend to think that that kind of Christianity has undermined the religion as a whole and might have even provided some impetus for the efforts of the New Atheist crowd.
I sometimes wonder, is that the weakness of Protestantism itself, or is it just because its something that's rooted in the stripped down (perhaps necessarily) Christianity that the colonists had during the Puritan days, back when American civilization was almost in a kind of mini-Dark Age? You almost see a reflection of that when you go into the really rural areas of America where the old "snake charming" fear-based Christianity is taught.
24:45
Wrong.
What justifies someone to be christian?
One who denies Yeshua Hamasiach, can claim he is a christian, can he?
What people claim, say, does not change reality.
It is what people do that change reality.
Gin,
I am the Seat of Wisdom,i am not ignorant, i am a wide reader and very studious !
I love listening to both BB and JP but I can't see it being a great debate to be honest as they agree in so much.
9:44 Trump call out?
I once heard Jung said to Freud “I don’t get the catholic’s” Freud said “you won’t get the catholic’s they have confession” . Guilt can make people ill .
Also Peterson vs. Marianne Williamson !!!
I am the Virgin Mary of Bukidnon,Philippines!
I was hoping this would be a Barron Peterson interview
If i'm wrong, you are free to correct me. I get the impression that Mr. Peterson hasn't understood God's plan for us humans yet, which is to make us part of His family, to make us His sons and daughters, to live forever with Him, to enjoy His goodness continuously, to worship Him forever, to make us kings and priests to Him, to rule creation and manage His grace and mysteries, and of course, to love Him and everybody. Maybe he doesn't know the nature and the purpose of Christ's Church (His Body) which is formed by all believers. Kind of trying to see how the moral teachings of the Bible fit in the supposed evolutionist point of view of humanity. This is the mindset that i think Mr. Peterson has.
Bishop Barron states that there is plenty of space that we can explore in between fundamentalism (the shadow of religion) and chaotic relativism (the shadow of secularist rationalism). Some possible way in into this area of exploration is: Is the story of Jesus really the story of the archetype of a man pleasing God? Did Jesus really exist? Was Jesus, in his life, really the embodiment of the archetype of a man pleasing God? Is it possible for a man to fully embody an archetype? Can the archetype of the man pleasing God be fully embodied and enacted by a man? What all of this possible say about Jesus?
Check out Jay Dyer's youtube channel
Aristotle - the GOLDEN MEAN.
Moral behaviour is the MEAN between two extremes - at one end is excess, at the other deficiency. Find a moderate position between those two extremes, and you will be acting morally.
Kant finished?
The reason to become Christian is to know who you are in God....and who God is in you. This is a knowing and not just a concept.
Religion is naturally fundamental. Even for Catholicism. So focus on the teachings rather than the nature of religion.
Before that Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson conversation happens I would say that Peterson needs a crash course in Aristotelian metaphysics. Without that Peterson's naturalism is going to keep bumping heads with the idea that such a thing as the Ressurection is even possible. Aristotle and St. Thomas' philosophy of nature lays the ground for something like that in a way that naturalism does and cannot.
This is good. I love, love, love JBP, but we also need to listen to how his approach to Jesus/God is also Kantian. :) I just met a very astute, good, ethical man on a plane, baptized Catholic, who goes to Mass every Sunday, but doesn't believe Jesus is God. Me: "So, you're not a Christian." He was shocked and showed me the cross around his neck. I asked him who he worshipped at Mass. He said: "Well, I don't go to church to worship, I go because I get a good feeling." He told me Jesus was the best moral teacher he knows and a very good man. Me: "But he was also either a liar or lunatic for claiming to be God. How could he also be a good, moral teacher at the same time?"
At 9:45 Barron gives an unintended description of Trump.
Still waiting for the dialogue between Bishop Barron and Jordan Peterson. And, clearly, many, many others as well. But it needs to be a direct, one-on-one, in-depth, personal dialogue - not a debate, not a mediated conversation on "hot topics". Instead, a conversation on the fundamentals.
Everything Jordan Peterson says about life etc can be achieved without invoking the bible or God. I love this guy whose 12 rules for life and maps of meaning have worth and meaning on just about every aspect of life, but all of what he says can be achieved without religious invocations.
If, anything, Bishop Barron has demonstrated how much further everyone has to go in my education, to have this correct knowledge available, fluid and articulated to such an extent, that every Christian can convincingly represent the faith to unbelievers and naysayers.
When is this guy gonna film "bishop breaking bad"
Dr Peterson has the high moral ground when it comes to any Catholic Church official.
I’m sure this bishop is a good man but the history of the Catholic Church both ancient and recent, for me, takes away any relevance.
The bishop would do well to study Dr. Peterson’s work.
Jordon Peterson say he acts as though God exists. Not a bad idea. It's probably the best most folks can do. Let's face it - Christians forever talk about their personal relationships with God but that's not much help for the 99% who never hear God whispering in their ears.
Tin Man... If they did have "God whispering in their ears",,, would you want them to follow through with the instructions??
@@reasonablespeculation3893 > Depends on the instructions. If my name is Abraham and God instructs me to kill my son Isaac I would suspect that the orders are either fake or unlawful. If convinced that the order is authentic I'd probably regard God as an unfriendly who ought not be obeyed. Consider that people routinely blow themselves to atoms with explosives because they think God told them to. Such people would just as happily blow up the world if they had the means.
Obeying the voices in one's head is risky business. History is full of people that got it wrong.
The point of acting like God exists means that you can't rationally process or explain it, but you know better than to suppress your irrational nature, so you act out your conscience even if you can't explain it. It's the only way for a highly Open to Experience person to be Conscientious. In a lot of ways you want to have your cake and eat it too, but in his case, the more you act out as if The Lord exists, the more insight you peek into the shadow of his absence, that is the price of high Intellect and poking your nose where it doesn't belong, it's what keeps you humble and grants the wisdom of the Lord in your Foolish pursuit of endless knowledge of the Stars of the Universe.
PS: Lol, I wrote this nonsense before even watching the video, Father Barron essentially boiled it down to Kantian rationale, which I'm fine with, I never read Kant.
Tin Man .. If your God is Yahweh, most of the evidence describes him as irate, annoyed and extremely violent... The Canaanites and Amalekites could attest to that. So if the voice in your head clearly says thou shalt not suffer a witch to live, it's most likely God.
John 16:2
Peterson has said on a few occasions that the moral archetypal interpretation of the bible likely POINTS to an underlying metaphysical reality. Harris tried to rip this out of him and sort of missed it when he finally made the admission that he sort of mentally concludes what he acts out. I think JBP's focus doesn't quite fall within the scope of the metaphysical, so any serious exploration along these lines could be a mere distraction from the message he is attempting to deliver. Why open oneself to ad hominem attacks that weaken a position which can be had without said distraction?
Bishop Barron (or anyone else) It would be nice to hear a definition of Fundamentalism...particularly Christian Fundamentalism.
Thank You.
Christian Fundamentalism usually refers to people who believe everything in the Bible is literal Truth. So for example, they tend to believe the Earth is roughly 6,000 years old, or that Moses lived to be 800 (something like that), since that is what the Old Testament says. Basically it's a way to classify people who strictly adhere to the literal word of Scripture, as opposed to people who may take more metaphorical interpretations.
I am a devout Catholic but the religion of God is Love and i am a female God,a Goddess!
the questioner at the end needs to discover the basic concept of an objective Truth.
I agree, but you have to understand that for many people it's not that easy. I'm a white South African so culturally accepting Christianity has always been easy.
But for many colonised people Christianity is seen as part of colonialism. It took over local faiths. It destroyed customs related to that faith. It brougut with it "Christian" rulers who oppressed people.
You have this constant idea of a Christianity as some foreign "other" dominating and taking over. I don't agree with this, but that's the perception. So for many people becoming Christian is seen in a way as subjecting yourself to some foreign evil and abandoning your culture
@English Teacher I agree. I'm just saying how these people _feel_. Not that they are right to do what they do or reject Christianity
@English Teacher I'm American but of Indian, Catholic origin like the guy who asked the question. You are correct, the culture I was raised in is dramatically different from those cultures which have Christianity at its root. For example, in the Indian (and I've noticed in African culture as well) there is a proclivity towards violence as a form of discipline. We see this most towards children. They ought to realize consequentialism is opposed to Christian love. But we in India have been surrounded by Hindus for millenia so we didn't know any better. And worse, we thought we did. No one knows any better until the love of Jesus transforms every part of your life. My mother used to hit me, bless her, but I don't lay a finger on my two girls (to my mother and MIL's detriment). As I got older, my mother (and father) would have me say the prayer for humility and take me to church every Sunday. That's what started me on this beautiful, captivating journey towards the Objective Truth. I'm so far from a model mother, but I'm doing everything in my power to be better and I know only the grace of God will save me and my children from the veil of deception. My point is, I never realized the apparent cultural disparity was in fact a religious one. Now since the early 1970s when the US decided to permit abortion and contraception, culture has deteriorated rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised if on the fringes of American society there's a reactionary increase (because they blame the non-assimilation of foreign culture and possibly lower collective IQ of some other races) in the number of those alt-right, "conservative", white supremecists. If they don't realize Western culture is great because it is Christian and not because it's Caucasian, they're in for it. If they don't toss out the contraception, they're tossing out their nation. Those Caucasian Americans are just as responsible as those other races infiltrating the US with idiot cultures. They have created their own moral vacuum. We all need to turn to Catholicism, stat. Our loyalty, whatever our race or culture, should be to the new Israel.
@English Teacher Interesting comment. What are your sources for this?
@English Teacher Christianity includes Judaism, so yes, I would argue if in fact the disparity is deeply religious at it's root, as I've come to believe, it's a Christian one. We can say Judeo-Christian, if you insist, but the term is redundant for Christians. I do despise current toxic femininity and the rampant racism from the media and SJWs against Christian straight, white males. I do think it's worth bearing in mind, though, that the descendants of 12 tribes of Israel (Europeans, if we take your claims to be true) aren't the only victims of the zeitgeist. It's bloodlust is directed at all effective proponents of conservative, Christian values. Makes sense, since satan has dominion over the Earth.
I am the Lady of All Nations !
Very well done, Bishop Baron.
I agree, Petersen is Jung and Kant rolled into one
Sorry, though Gandhi was thoroughly inspired by Jesus ( my Lord and yours too) and accepted his divinity ( one of many sons of God), his ideas of non-violence came from Jainism. Sam Harris talks about Jainism as a perfect religion without understanding much of its basic assumptions. To begin with, Jainism does not believe in a personal or impersonal God although they subscribe to the principle of Karma. Would Sam Harris accept as an idea. He works on consciousness which Francis Schaffer dismisses ( Patiencd witj God) as wishywashy nonsense whiich pleases me.
Funny, Peterson really got me into Kierkegaard. Thought I'm not sure he mentions him much.
@@garygrant6987
Gary , Petersen is not into leap of faith. I would have thought he would lead you to Nietzsche. That will be more like him.
I think to convert Peterson, you need to introduce Tolkien to him. Because Tolkien talks about myths, facts, and how myths present a supernatural truth to our imprisoned minds
I've been Blessed with the knowing, God is. It wasn't the Bible who needed tell me so! Last March 8th, 2018, (Anniverary of her passing) as I Prayed my Mom was sleeping in God's hand? I felt the feeling, ( familiar to me),...pressure, and took photos of the sky swirling into two letters, M A! As clear as if written on a chalkboard by Sister Angelas at Racine Wisconsin's St. Joes School.
I find Mr. Peterson's faith in Jesus to be affirmed, if not his affiliations with a certain church. I'd love for him or anyone to tell me what to do with the Proof of not only I AM's Existence but Proof He hears our Prayers, and that He Answers. The Trinity Blessed my Prayers for Double
Reignbows over half a dozen times. Has saved me as often when, evil non believing folks have tried harming my son and I, dropping His sky from blue into black, ever since I was 5 to now at 61. If I can't Prove it? I don't mention it... Why hasn't New York been bombarded by a Billion Christians descending to stop the Partial Birth Murders, by our current Pope, every Cardinal, and Priest gathered Christian Worldwide? Why are the same being Silent about the Dangers of 5G? Older people need to let the young, (I'm 61, an Anti Vatican II Cradle Catholic, so know what my Church was, as the young DON'T!), to dream... I see the future degradation of A1, s being accepted as if they AREN'T SOULLESS machines. Do these, [¿~*sorosians☆*# ] think the Innocent Souls of their Murdered/Aborted can be transferred? As if God Almighty wouldn't know who was born in His Image? (It's the base of my next crazy sounding book) I've sounded crazy ringing my bells and hammer of warning
before, until it's proven I'm right. God knows how I've tried! You must admit that A1 Sophia the robot being Baptised, would be the Grandfather of all their...
Machiavellian MACHINations. PRAY with me that I'm wrong this time. That it's all due to of my Hometown, or my Mom's, Herzogenhauerach Deutschland's Jews...
The human relationship in Jesus makes all the difference.
I hope that Barron and Peterson may someday talk face to face. There really is no other way to bridge the gulf, if bridging be possible. At any rate they will share the opportunity civilly to agree to disagree.
Before listening: I was a little disturbed when Peterson said that "You can't just say to people in the modern world, 'No sex till you're married.'" He says this in a RUclips video entitled, "Abortion is clearly wrong. But it's not that simple."
This is his secular pragmatism talking.
Peterson also said perhaps in the same video that there is a big technical problem involved in that women know about birth control. There are many technical problems involved with sex in general!
The fact that Peterson denounced abortion as morally wrong means he is in principle aligned with Catholic social teaching.
Id rather listen to JP.
I love You Father Barron 😍 💖 ( + Brandon 😘)
drop the awkward music breaks
Jordan Peterson himself tweeted this video: twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/1107800356577308674
Phenomena, doo dooo doo doo doo, Phenomena, doo doo doo doo
Sorry, I'm easily distracted. XD
🤣Hilarious!🤣
The Hindu question is disingenuous. Hindus are not more tolerant than Christians; the British Empire ended slavery, and sathi, where widows were burned alive on their husbands' funeral pyres. Hinduism justifies the oppression of the poor by saying they deserve their lot in life.
Worst of all, Hinduism has a serious problem with possession, which you only hear about when you talk with them personally.
Bishop, according to Kant, why can't we reason to God?
It's interesting to me that you each have maps behind you. Middle Earth on the left and plain ole Earth on the right.
Did I hear "Brandon vodka host"?