America's Secret MiG-23s | Behind the Wings
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Watch Part 2 • The Secret MiGs at Are...
America's Secret MiG-23s | Behind the Wings
Join Wings' curator Chuck Stout as we go Behind the Wings of a Soviet-era jet fighter designed for high-speed interception - the Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23.
We’ll also dive into a top-secret US Air Force Training program - CONSTANT PEG - and meet one of the pilots who flew the MiG-23 as part of the first of its kind adversary training program. THIS is going to be cool!
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Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum:
wingsmuseum.org
Would not object to a 1 or 2 hour interview or talk by John Mann!
Museum would have a huge audience with this
So much #BDE
Facts. I’m surprised they didn’t even cover the history of Constant Peg and how we came about these Soviet aircraft
Creo que perdisteis un f18 por derribo de mig 25, en la guerra del golfo, dan prohibió a sus pilotos que os interceptaron así que casi no hubo combates aire aire, fue una masacre, enterraron sus aviones en el desierto.
Why so short? Are Americans attention spans really that short? Should be much more to say!
This MiG-23 was bulgarian, it was based in Gabrovnitza air base near my home town.Probably was fueled by my uncle in the early 90's :) Great video!
Hey, I was in Uzundjovo and worked on Mig-21s . I got to see these a few times when they were visiting from Gabrovnitca... fun times.
This mig 23 is most likely an MLA variant of the mig 23's
@@MiG-23_enthusiast Negative, it is an MLD, export sub variant. The MLDs for the Soviet Air Force had a small "saw-tooth" on the leading edge of the wing-root to serve as vortex generators, giving a slightly higher permissible angle of attack, + additional external flare dispensers ontop of the center fuselage. Funny fact, this aircraft #217 was the third to last MiG-23 to roll off the production line. The very last one being #219, resold to Cote d'Ivoire in 2004.
@@georgimarkov2953huh really?, I don't see the tooth edge on the wing
@@MiG-23_enthusiast Correct. There are two versions of the MLD - one for the Soviets, one for the Warsaw-pact countries. #217 was from the very last batch ever produced, in 1986, from which Bulgaria got #204, 205, 209, 211, 212, 215, 217, 219 as new from the factory. In 1991 Bulgaria recieved 5 more MLD second-hand from a soviet unit that served in Afganistan (#300, 301, 302, 305, 308 - all 5 scrapped in 2007) in exchange for 3 MiG-25s (1 RU trainer and 2 RBT reccon-bombers). Those second-hand MLDs had the tooth on the wing-root, +2 flare dispensers on the back and dark grey nose cone and stabilizer tips, instead of the white ones you see on #217.
12:12; I hate being a spring butt, however, I feel I must insert a comment reference what John Mann said about “loosing zero airplanes to enemy aircraft” during OPERATION DESERT STORM. I’m not sure when this interview took place, which is relevant, because we later determined that the US did, in fact, loose a plane and it’s pilot. Navy Cmndr Scott Speicher was flying an F/A-18 Hornet fighter when he was shot down by an Iraqi Air Force aircraft around 100 miles west of Baghdad in the early hours of 17 January 1991, the first night of Operation Desert Storm.
That story has always been odd to me, dozens of US aircraft got shot down by SAM's, why hide a single incident? With other craft and E-3 coverage, I'm not saying the Mig didn't shoot him down but there were an awful lot of fuck ups there.
Who cares?
@@daveballin I would think that Navy Cmndr Scott Speicher cared, for one.
Yes as you said. The USN lost one F/A-18 Hornet to the Iraq Mig-25 Air to Air Missile.
skill issue tbh
Great presentation! I wish I could meet John and talk with him about the Flogger. There are several items I'd like to humbly point out. The 4477th flew a first-generation Flogger, The Mig-23MS. The airplanes they got, 8 of them were sitting out in the desert for 5 years in Egypt and were pretty fried. Also, very few spares. What they did to keep these flying is amazing. The seat being so low IS NOT a standard feature, there is an electrical motor for the seat(Km-1) that raises it on the left side of the cockpit. It looked to be in the lowest position. The Flogger also has a two tier taxing selection. It can turn VERY tight on the ramp with the proper selection, otherwise you do get wide radius turns. Oil pressure is located on the lower part of the panel as well as an annunciator light that not only indicates low pressure but debris in the oil. Pretty cool. As far as speed on Flogger was reported to hit M3 in a dive, it is a VERY powerful plane! Also, THIS Flogger is an ML which is a VERY VERY different animal than the MS,MF or UB. The ML is ONE TON lighter than the `standard` Flogger and has the `big` R-35 engine at 28.6K thrust and VERY improved systems and flight characteristics. Thanks guys. Will Ward
And there was the latest version MLD with the additional vortex generators at the LERX and the Pitot tube. The MLD max AoA was above 33deg, it has automatic leading edge flap controll and a way more advanced fire control system. What could be confusing is the designation, since the MLD itself means an ML "Dorabotanniy" -> "Reworked", so there were a lot of used MLs which had the upgraded avionics package, called as MLD; and a lot of new airframe MLD, with the modified aerodynamic layout (plus the upgraded avionics).
You are correct! Nice job! Everybody lumps the Floggers into one group when they were actually different and improved. The program within the 4477th for the Floggers was called HAVE PAD for the MSs and HAVE BOXER for the BN. They received the designation YF-113E and YF-113B respectively.
Thank you for this supplemental info. My biggest question, which was not addressed at all in the vid, was how the Migs were acquired. I was always impressed with the Mig 23 and Mig 25 and absolutely love how they look.
by modern standards the cockpits in the MiG-23 looks really dated
but how do they compare with their contemporaries of the time such as F-4 and F-14 ?
How does it compare with the MiG-29 ?
@@kolbolaДа МЛД делали для противодействия ф-15 и Ф-16. И по некоторым параметрам он даже превосходил их хотя конечно это более старое поколение.
This exact mig was in the bulgarian airforce. When we first joined NATO back in 2004, we had a bunch of these, which were brand new. They were kept in storage and not operating, because we didn’t have enough money to maintain all of the aircrafts that we had at that time. And soon after we joined NATO, americans told us to scrap our migs (almost all of them) and we cut them to pieces, literally. I’ve searched this particular mig and it was with our airforce until 2008-2009 probably…
Бараны
I think from Russia, Bulgaria will not receive more gifts.
What a fatal mistake joining nato ! They are a joke and your country will be destroyed via them
The roundels suggest otherwise.
I think mig 23 was the worst interceptor ever buit.
I'm from Czech republic (former Czechoslovakia). 23s were huge part of my childhood. I enjoyed watching them while I was hiding in the field
near landing path. These planes could accelerate verticaly into the clouds right after takeoff. With wings still in wide position. Their silhouette during landing were so rectangular that they had nickname "BOX". Realy strange plane.
Two interesting facts which I don't think were covered in the video itself:
9:12 John mentioned previously that this particular MiG did NOT find its way to the US via the CONSTANT PEG program - as you can see clearly in this shot, it sports post-1991 Bulgarian Air Force markings. Just for the folks out there who may not recognize all the different roundels (esp. that for a time three Warsaw Pact members - Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria - used different type of markings - a red star with a national tricolor in the middle, - which sometimes makes it difficult to differentiate those nations on blurred or black & white pictures)
And 9:14 you can clearly see another distinct feature of MiG-23, a folding lower fin. In flight, it extended lower down than the landing gear. They were wired together, so that when the gear was retracted, the fin would fold down, and when it was lowered again, the fin would fold up - otherwise every landing would end up with a very nasty case of a tailstrike.
8:55 you can also just about make out the lower fin folding down as well in the back of the shot.
@@BritishTeaLover I'm British and I also love tea. Strange coincidence, eh?
Thanks to John Mann for helping us tell this story about the MiG-23 and CONSTANT PEG. We answered many of your questions in Part 2 ruclips.net/video/E2PFDyF1Yzk/видео.html
He was an excellent interview! Would actually love to hear a longform interview about that whole program in general...or at least the parts he is allowed to discuss. So much cool aviation history going on in that time
@@CMFL77 We have been getting lots of comments like this, so we may do it as a bonus video, or as a podcast interview on our Behind the Wings podcast!
@@Wings_Museum sounds like a good idea, I'll keep an eye out! Thanks!
Bulgarian air force mig23 🎉🎉🎉
My old Army buddy owns one of these he bought several years ago, after buying it he invited my to come to Amarillo Tx to see it, not being one to turn down the opportunity for a motorcycle road trip I packed up my bags and jumped on my Ultra and took off from Pennsylvania and headed down there.
The ironic thing is him and I were Air Defense gunners (Vulcan) back in the early/mid 80's, back then never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I'd be so close to one (unless it was dropping bombs on me) much less get to sit in the cockpit of one.
As soon as we walked into the hangar where it was at I looked at him and said "Gimmie your gun, I feel like I should be shooting it full of holes!!!" What really struck me about it as soon as I saw it was how massive it was for a single engine single seat aircraft, I mean that thing was BIG, another impressive thing about it was looking in the exhaust, it was like looking into a cave.
It was part of a 5 or 6 plane package deal, some of them were still disassembled outside but the other one that was assembled that was inside the same hangar was the two seater variant.
Something else that struck me about it was how tight the cockpit was for such a massive aircraft, all I had on was jeans, a t-shirt, boots and a ball cap, I couldn't imagine being in one of those things in a flight suit and a helmet on and fly an hours long mission, that had to be exhausting being that confined for hours at a time in one.
It's a complete aircraft minus the weapons of course but the engine was at the end of it's service life, but he didn't buy it to fly, it was destined to be part of a static Cold War display he was donating it to, some of the other one's that were still disassembled outside were missing engine's or parts of the avionics from being canabalized by the country they got them from to keep them flying, they were in the process of finding homes for them, places they could be put on display like in front of Amvets lodges or wherever they could find someone who'd take them as display pieces.
After all these years later actually standing there and looking at one of those things that I had to learn how to identify and take aircraft recognition tests on years ago was one of the most surreal moments of my life, I still look at the pictures I have of me standing in front of it and sitting in the cockpit and still can't believe it.
But even better than that, several months before I got my picture taken sitting in the actual Sanford and Son pickup truck, it's still in the exact condition it was in when the show was filmed, that beat out getting my picture taken sitting in that Flogger, because there's only one of them.
Terrific feature. The 23 is an awesome looking aircraft and from an outside perspective a formidable foe. There really is no substitute for training like you fight.
Board 217 is a Bulgarian MiG 23 last seen in 2008 in Dobroslavci airbase.
Great job!
When the museum flushed the fuel system they still found some rakia in the fuel tank....😏
This exact MIG 21 at 0:54 is still in service today. I had the luck to see it few times up close and in flight in 2005 during my service. But they will soon be replaced with Dassault Rafale f3r.
Hello, actually none of them are in flying condition anymore. Croatia has delivered its MiG 21 to Ukraine for overhaul. And instead of overhauled MIG21, Ukraine returned the aircraft in worse condition than they were. All aircraft before the Ukrainian overhaul were in flying condition, after the Ukrainian overhaul, only 2 remained in the flying condition. Of those 2, one crashed last year, after which the only remaining MIG in flight condition was grounded.
As for the delivery of new aircrafts, the big question is when they will arrive, because there will be a big deficit of aircrafts among NATO members after the mass delivery of F16 to Ukraine, which is the most mass-produced plane among NATO members. After the end of the war, even if some F16 planes remain in the arsenal, their usability will be very limited, because normally Russia will get access to this technology, after Russia examines their real capabilities in the air, parts, technology, some will be kept as museum specimens, and some will be transported to China. All this calls into question when Croatia will finally have its turn, until then Croatia will be without aviation, and its airspace will be guarded by other NATO countries - which Croatia has to pay for...
@@goldenprincess3564 Nope, they are still flying. Yes, the Ukrainian overhaul job was very controversial at the time, but as far as I remember additional airframes were acquired and there are still a few flying over Croatia. In fact, I have seen them many times over the past few years. Just a few days ago I heard one flying above Zagreb, but I couldn't see it. The sound is very distinct, though, as it is much, much louder than commercial airplanes, so it definitely was a MiG, even though I didn't manage to see it.
@@MaxCroat "I heard from my grandmother that Cleopatra was black and she said - no matter what others tell you, Cleopatra was black"
@@goldenprincess3564 I'm sorry, of course, but have you ever wondered if the F 16s will fight against the Russian Federation, then they will naturally be a legitimate target for the Russian Air Force. And...also, the legitimate target will be those airfields where they will be based, whether it is Ukraine or, for example, Poland, etc..... Has anyone thought about it? But in vain. Europe is at risk......in the nuclear risk zone. America will not help . She herself will also get the full. It is a pity that NATO does not think about this due to the lack of its brain...
@@goldenprincess3564yet atleast with their example they could make a distinction due to the irl sound he was hearing compared to a centuries old question lol
11:40 The elephant in the room there is dispatch reliability. Assuming the same level of maintenance, the MiG-23 doesn't do badly. That was true of a lot of Soviet aircraft.
Good video. Interesting guy. Another thing for those interested: look up and Australian pilot called Phil 'Frawls' Frawley. Once the world's oldest fighter pilot, he has a lot of experience in the Mirage and the F/A-18. But Frawls also flew the MiG-21 and had a lot of very positive things to say about it. His assessment was that if well flown, it would have been an extremely tough customer for the Mirage. I guess we are fortunate that most of the air forces who operated these types did not have the same levels of training and maintenance that we did.
5:00 He has the seat all the way down. Having been an ejection seat mechanic and having had some hands-on time with a couple of Soviet ejection seats, including the K36, it is easy to tell. The gap between the back cushion and the headrest is as far as it can go. This seat does not go through the canopy so the helmet would actually be higher than the top of the seat.
There was a loss of an F-18 to a MiG-25 in the Desert Storm...
There were few allied losses, the Soviet planes and Soviet tanks were in a pretty one sided war.
I love the lanyards on the noses of the planes. Makes it so much easier to just carry your jet with your when you're not using it.
Love this museum, every time I'm I. The area I try and make it inside.
I live about 15 min. from wings over the rockies small museum but great planes. Love the veterans breakfasts and more. Great place.
It’s truly special.
Fantastic video thanks!
This MiG-23 looks to have belonged to the Bulgarian Air Force, based on the roundel, which is wild.
We need longer version
We may do this on the Behind the Wings podcast, or as a bonus video!
the curator seems like a very sweet old man, Gbu always Mr. Stout!
Este engenheiro Russo esta muito afrente resto mundo,do faz naves espetacular ❤
Good video, am forwarding.
I remember that c. 1985 a USAF general insisted on flying a MiG-23 without much preparation. Because he was a few days from retirement, there seemed no valid reason for the flight but of course (to quote a captain at the time) "Yessir yessir three bags fuller!"
Great talk, fantastic to have one of the pilots to take us through it! Minor thing & I could be wrong, but I was under impression the Su-17 was the first soviet jet fighter with variable sweep wings.
Su-17 started production in 1969 but the Mig-23 started in 1967.
They said 'Mig Line', not 'Soviet Fighter'.
@@Witnaaay said @1:15 “first Soviet jet to have variable sweep, swing wings…..” The Su-17 flew first and was in production first, so this video is incorrect. Su-17 first flew in 1966. MiG-23 was 1967. Production of the Su-17 began in 1969 and the MiG-23 was 1970.
The utilization of cutting-edge military technology is essential for maintaining peace and security.
Great video presentation! As was said, give it to the maintenance crews as always, people tend to forget about them in keeping our frontline running!!👍🏽🇺🇸
P. S. I was in the USAF but not in A/C maintenance!
I just discovered this channel, fantastic job. All the studies on aircraft focus on technical details, but almost never information from the pilot's perspective, especially from such a unique perspective of an American pilot trained on American aircraft flying Soviet aircraft
Here is some interesting info about what I felt was omitted from the video, and that is HOW the US managed to acquire such aircraft in the midst of the cold war: despite the declassification of the Constant Peg program in 2006, Foreign Aircraft Technology operations still remain classified and it is not known exactly the actual number or types of aircraft involved, where they came from, or the complete history of the program.
They came from Egypt. Everyone knows that.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4477th_Test_and_Evaluation_Squadron
If you look a little farther down in the Wikipedia article, from where you copied and pasted your comment, under the heading "MiGs acquisitions" you'll see where the various Mig models came from in the 70's.
@@user-br3ou2cs9oRazor sharp sarcasm at its VERY BEST! Ha. Ha. Ha.
Cheers!
Egypt, maybe Iran. Heck Saddam Hussein probably had some spares the US could borrow. Edit according to Wikipedia they came from Syria, Indonesia, Algeria and Morocco
Really enjoyed the video and the first person knowledge of constant peg was great.
A minor point MIG 23 was not the first variable geometry wing in soviet forces Su 17 (8-2-1966 ) a year before the MIG 23 (10-6-1967) not by much but still first.
Instant subscribe. That was fascinating. I’d love to see an interview with a maintainer to get a more in depth overview of the mechanical and avionics aspects of the MiG. Also, an interview with a pilot that trained against them…. Great content!
Thank you for your service John, and thank you for your work keeping history alive Chuck, I think many people disregard history. This video clearly shows the diffrence in philosophy between the soviet and american air forces and their engineering.
My son lives in Aurora, Co. and I've been to Wings Over The Rockies several times over the years and it has always been a wonderful experience. When my kids were young and living in New Jersey, Armed Forces Weekend was always a treat, going to Fort Monmouth and to McGuire AFB for airshows and static displays. My daughter now lives in Florida and I take my grandkids to Valiant Air Command in Titusville at least once a year and that is another wonderful experience. The other great thing is that I'm able to look at restorations in progress and last year They had just finished restoring the only XP-82 in existence and heard the story how they ended up getting the right Packard Merlin needed because it needed to be the opposite of the other one. Very interesting. I also saw the finish of the restoration of an F-105 by the pilot and crew chief of that specific aircraft while in Viet Nam during the war. Wings Over The Rockies has a magnificent collection, from the B-52 on pylons out front to the Douglas B-18 Bolo and everything in between.
Crazy that one just crashed at an airshow outside of Detroit today :(
I thought a Iraqi Mig-25 Foxbat shot down Cdr Speicher’s F/A-18 Hornet the first night of Operation Desert Storm?
The way he plants that stick on the line you can tell he had to do it in real life a few times 5:58
John did a great job! God bless him and TYFYS!
I just came across this channel and I love it, thank you so much for such excellent videos! I'm putting together a plan to visit the museum.
Wonferful video, I already knew the CONSTANT PEG story but never had the chance to hear it from a real life U.S. pilot who flew DACT. Thank you so much.
That old Flogger deserves a new paint job, tires, and canopy because of its importance fighter pilot training.
Just learned that this museum is in Denver, I'll have to drive down and check it out!
Or if you fly commercially to Denver airport and rent a car there, it's conveniently about halfway between the airport and the city, as I recall from 5+ yrs ago. Loved the small museum with lots to see, plan a few hours ! Wonder if they still show the video/movie near the entrance featuring Harrison Ford in his? small plane.
Great interview. The MiG-23 is my all time favorite fighter jet. I was so happy to see when I went here.
WTF ? Get some rest -
It's a worthy fighter,nice choice!
My favourite is Миг-31 interceptor
Nice choice bro 😉
@@carvadonair Mig-31 is salvaged Mig-25. But it's slower an even more useless.
@@bobwilson758need a hug little buddy?
❤ The best presentations from legend fighter pilot Mig-23 ...❤
What a great mini doc. So cool to see these platforms getting the same attention the American ones got. Soviet engineers did so much with drastically lower resources. Smart pilot, tricky plane is such a different philosophy from the US which is so fascinating.
So glad I found this channel
"We were led to believe they would turn on a dime. They did not." 😂
Awesome clip! John is such a great guest, gracious, smart and articulate. The perfect teacher!
Really loved this video! Thanks for sharing all this info!
Absolutely brilliant interview, any viewers visiting England please give Cosford Air Museum a visit: there is a whole hangar dedicated to the Cold War. Nearby is Ironbridge, the cradle of the Industrial Revolution, some truly excellent sites all very suitable for families. Visiting the Rockies both for the hiking and the air museum now firmly on my bucket list!
Yes!! I have been there multiple times, its incredible, they have alot of prototypes such as the pegasus (prototype harrier) B.A.C TSR.2 (basically a british valkyrie: never caught success) and plenty cold war aircraft like the lightning, mig 21 mig 15 sabre and alot of soviet, american and british aircraft and tanks i cannot name off the top of my head
Yes, I've been to Cosford, I might go back again. The Cold War exhibit is interesting, and they have the TSR2 exhibit as well.
It's one of my unfulfilled ambitions to visit Cosford. My dad served there for a while during his RAF stint.
They never said where they ‘acquired’ the Mig 23’s from, not exactly off the shelf and I’m sure the Soviet Union wouldn’t have willingly handed one or more over to the US
There's an episode of the Fighter Pilot Podcast about Constant Peg where the guest tells about it.
Some were aquired from allied nations after a Soviet pilot defected. All done pretty hush hush (of course)
They also just bought the planes from other nations that used it
Probably the same way they got their hands on the MiG 15 that defected to the US. Might have been captured in Europe.
The 4477th got their Migs from Egypt. They were traded for F-4s and sidewinders.
As a soldier in the Army in the late 1970s, We examined Soviet equipment that we had acquired from Egypt as that country was turning away from the USSR. It's possible the planes came from there.
Oops! Should have read all the other comments. LOL
This is the best aviation show on the internet! Thank you
Excellent interview!, and exciting topic, I liked it so much that I was left wanting more!. It would be interesting a more extensive special with more information about Constant Peg! Congratulations!
Thank you for the video!
Just a little info on the program Constant Peg. The way it got its name is the first word Constant was the call sign of the General at the Pentagon who was responsible for the program. The word Peg is the name of the wife of the first commander of the 4477th. I knew a number of maintenance people assigned to Area 51. It was a marriage killer. Leave Nellas AFB for work at oh dark thirty on Monday morning and return at oh dark thirty Friday evening. In the meantime, your wife was stuck in Vagas.
I hear you brother that's why I was older when I got married the 1st time
Not sure if I missed something, but... How and where they got the Russian aircrafts from???
Is new to me the fact that the US had "real" Russian airplanes in US soil for training.😲
I believe they got them from countries that bought Migs from the Soviet Union at the time.
I was amazed when I saw that this MiG-23 in the video is one of the MiGs of the Bulgarian Air Force!
I'm a 20 year Major Mission Crew Commander Air Battle Manager on AWACS and we control all military aircraft, including allies and all services and direct them how to kill, where the friendlies are, how to get them air refueled, and search and rescue missions, etc. I've been to 4 RED FLAG exercises and we sometime bring in 2 AWACS, one to control Blue Air and one to control Red Air (Bad Guys). They also have a museum on base at Nellis that had a section classified and had no public access we called the "petting zoo" that was filled with Russian equipment and planes to climb on and sit in to get a better understanding our their capabilities and limitations. There is a lot more than Mig-23's that we have.
Loved your museum so glad I went and loved this aircraft.
What an awesome video. Thanks for your hard work😊
Absolutely awesome!
Thank you so much!
Vancouver, Canada.
Great video man, thanks for sharing
Wow. I'm so thankful I came across this. Great video.
Great interviewer and interviewee. Just straight to the point, clear, and the right level of technical.
Thanks to John Mann for helping us tell this story about the MiG-23 and CONSTANT PEG. We couldn't cover everything, so leave your questions and comments and we'll get to as many as we can!
A couple of questions after this excellent video that left me wanting to know more
1. From where did the US get hold of these Mig 23’s? Bought them from soviet allies or did Israel capture them
2. How many 23’s flew in the US? Where there also 27’s
3. How did you train the pilots flying the 23’s? Did US get hold of any 2 seat trainers or just relied on passed down information from experienced pilots to the new ones taking over?
4. Did the soviets know about these USAF flown 23’s? The F5E Tiger 2 aggressor squadrons where general known about but this Constant Peg was a black program right? But a lot of people must have known about it. Where the “standard” aggressor squadrons a completely different unit or did these work together?
Great video!
The Mig-23 came from Egypt. The US pilots didn't learn to fly the Mig-23. They learned how to shoot it down. It's a big difference.
@@ichimonjiguy Thanks for the answer about where the units came from BUT regarding the question about how the US pilots learned how to fly the Mig 23 is related to how the US aggressor pilot learned to fly it. I know that it was not the general USAF pilot that got this training of flying the 23’s. It cannot be easy to sit in a completely new aircraft with a total different philosophy. I suppose experienced pilots passages down the particular quirks to new pilots.
@@holgernetterby4863 The Air Force picked experienced pilots to fly the Mig-23. It's like test pilots flying a new aircraft.
Very interesting interview. My two take aways would be:
1. Surely these Constant Peg pilots were possibly better trained than even the best Soviet pilots on these aircraft, and
2. Soviet engineers were super impressive buy they always seemed to get the hard part right (speed, durability etc) but the easier part arseways (ergonomics for example)
Really interesting topic
It makes me wonder if the Soviets had anything similar - Maybe they got F4's and F14's and others from Iran and elsewhere. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be a maintainer on this Mig-23 - I'm guessing that any parts you needed would have to be fabricated somehow.
Interestingly, 'human factors' or 'man-machine interface' is actually one of the harder parts of good aircraft design. Tens of thousands of man hours went into designing, refining, and finalizing the F-16's first of its kind HOTAS, and had heavy input from active duty pilots. Getting all the things a pilot needs - and none that he doesn't - in the right place at the right time is quite tricky.
@@toastrecon not sure, the Soviets didn't have a ready source of western aircraft like the US had with Israel having taken dozens of them in their wars against the Arabs (which is where Constant Peg got its aircraft, plus possibly a very few North Vietnamese defectors).
Some western aircraft were left behind in Vietnam at the end of that war, but nothing more advanced than some F-5s from the South Vietnamese Air Force, I don't know what happened to those, if they ever made it to the USSR or China, some probably did.
Iran wasn't a reliable client state to the USSR, neither was India. Pakistan has always been closer to China than the USSR.
And those are pretty much the only countries they could have gotten western equipment from.
Right now there is a risk of western equipment falling into Russian hands through capture in Ukraine and through the extremely unreliable NATO member that is Turkey. But that wasn't of course the case in the 1970s and 1980s.
Quite likely the Soviets got their hands on some western equipment by capturing it from the Taliban (then called the Mujahideen in the west) during their adventures in Afghanistan, but those guys only ever got small arms and some light mortars and shoulder fired surface to air missiles.
Obviously the billions of dollars worth of modern equipment left behind when the Americans fled Afghanistan probably made its way to China and Russia in exchange for who knows what, but that was way after the 1970s and AFAIK no modern jet aircraft were left behind.
Part of Soviet doctrine was overwhelming mass production like the T34 Tank when it came out in 1943; you lose one, you get a replacement. Same doctrine on military aircraft, never mind the ergonomics.
@@jwenting USA is the most unreliable member of NATO.
This was an amazing video. Thank you.
The recent film “devotion” did an excellent job showing how terrified p-51 mustang pilots were of early jet migs over Korea
I love this channel! How come i did not know about it since today????????????????????????? Btw, my father flew MiG23 in the days, it really was a beast.
Just discovered this channel! AMT here. Great job on these videos. Big fan now!!!
N desert storm the mig 25 proved itself to be a complete surprise as it was so fast our first encounter was one downed F18 and missing pilot for many many years til we occupied Iraq and some bedouins told us they buried the dead pilot that night.
The mig 25 had the long range radar, the incredible high speed and the complete advantage from very far away. Only drawback was it's engines required overhaul after hitting speeds exceeding mach 2.5
The mig 25 if I'm not mistaken remains the only aircraft that gave us trouble over Iraq as it not only shot down 1 aircraft but the following sorties it weyt up it diverted some ground attack assets and jammers as well
Museum looks amazing and as a PPL holder and aviation buff would love to visit one day.....thanks for the video!
Great video, thanks and cheers from Uruguay.
Great video, very informative for any aviation fan/expert/historian. This kind of level of production requires a thumbs up! .... and I will subscribe! I only have just 9 or 10 hours under my belt private training (best years and moments of my life) ,I could listen and talk airplanes all day this way all day...
Outstandin episode, thanks for posting!
This aircraft was once owned by the Bulgarian Air Force .Best Regards from Sofia Bulgaria
Re. "First Soviet swing wing fighter to fly". Su-17 first flight was on August 2, 1966, almost a year ahead of the Mig.
^ This.
MAGNIFICENT,INFORMATIVE AND ENTERTAINING VIDEO!!!!!!!!!❤😃
Oh this was AWESOME, thank you very much for the upload (subscribed immediately). Reading now HOW these airplanes ended up in the USAF and it's fascinating
Fascinating video. Thank you for sharing. 😊
I cannot believe I missed this last time I was driving through Colorado... Thanks for this video!! Definitely on my 2024 trip map!
very interesting vid - thanks guys!
Great clip on the 23! I'd love to visit the Rockies aircraft museum...
Many thanks!👍👍
Mig looks so rough, while Phantom looks so sophisticated.
I saw then brand new MiG-29s and SU-27s at the 1989 Paris Airshow and was not impressed with the quality of the finish. Rivet heads were round instead of flush, big panel gaps and it looked like they were brush painted with semi-gloss house paint. These were brand new airshow birds!
I my university there were 6 of those and I used to look on many it's systems from inside. There were so many things designed in a very smart way, especially for it's time, like hydro accumulators or pilot's life support system...
Subscribed. Nice job gentlemen! The first thing you realize when something has big brakes/braking chute, is that it needs to be operated at high landing speeds for stability. It looks like a handful even standing still.
Fantastic video !
Excellent
I have never been to the museum, I guess I will this week sometime.
Bloody well documented !
Loved this video, I read the book on the 4477th and to hear one of the pilots first hand accounts? Perfect !
Incredible video!
Great video. Really interesting.. well done.
THANK YOU, John Mann!! Your viewpoint in this, shows that the US Military does Value it's Personnel by Training them to Survive.
Cool plane!
In India mig 23 and 27( advance version) were used by IAF. Beautiful war bird.
Nice one Chuck 👍
I've always loved the MiG-23, but I love the B-18 even more, If you haven't already, would y'all consider doing a video about the history of the Museum's B-18 and how it came to be at the museum?
I believe they have a video from years ago with their previous curator on the B-18, I think it was a mid restoration video
@@BlackHawkBallistic Still, would be nice to see a full tour!
Agreed, Pima air and space has on hanging from its roof, so be nice see a video tour of one on the ground
Great video!
I can't believe Spirt airlines got me stuck in Denver for 8 hours and I didn't stop by! I'll be checking this out next time I'm in town for sure!
Excelente!!!!!! Felicitaciones!! Excelente 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
This is one of the coolest videos ive ever seen
I saw the short for this video and immediately though. "God I hope they make full length videos".
Glad you found us!
@@Wings_Museum any B-47s out there?
Most informative. Thanks
10:26
that's a MiG-27, a ground attacker variant of the MiG-23, but not really comparable
It's more likely a MiG-23BN, the MiG-27 has slightly smaller fixed intakes without the variable intake ramp/splitter plate extending forward of the intake.
EXCELLENT VIDEO !!!!!!