Porsche 911 Carrera 4S v Carrera 2S | evo TRACK BATTLES
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- Опубликовано: 18 мар 2014
- In episode 3 of the evo track battles, Richard Meaden takes the ultimate battle of the Porsche 911, the Carrera 4S v Carrera 2S. Who will win?!
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Love the comparison between 2S & 4S, but would have preferred to see a comparison between very similar specs (both PDK, both Sport Chrono, both Sport Suspension, etc) to get a better idea of actual direct comparison.
And both in the dry with same tyres same amount of fuel 😎 maybe we should do our own channel 😂
That ducktail on the C2S makes it look gorgeous
Great track battle. I would love to see a rematch in the dry.
Would’ve been nice to see that though the c4s would’ve still won
Absolutely. Please tell the rest of them that the only reason why the porsche GT cars are rwd is because to save 45kg. Rwd porsche’s understeer more because the front end is light due to no front axle. Sorry for ranting on a Sunday 😂👍🏼
instablaster
comparisons where not fair!!!
BOTH cars should have either been equipped with PDK or with a MANUAL BOX.
still the C4S would be faster because of how corners would be handeled with 4wd
ITS A NO BRAINER
GeorgeVatsos Not necessarily. AWD grip/corner exit speed doesn’t always overcome RWD’s advantages in weight, increased wheel horsepower (less parasitic loss), normally weight distribution but not in this case (although I believe he said it stayed the same, normally the added weight on the front increases understeer; 911’s have a large rear-weight bias so extra weight on the front would be beneficial. Early 911’s actually had otherwise useless weight added to the front bumpers in order to keep the front end planted).
Think about it: almost all of the fastest track cars are rear wheel drive
My_Supercar_Life k
Skylers Supercar Life what is your conclusion?
Is it ever NOT raining in your videos. Guys! Time to move to a dryer climate to test your cars.
The track is cheaper when its raining. They are cutting costs.
I'm guessing this was recorded a few weeks ago, when we were in the middle of our wettest winter on record. :) Not great for testing cars. Weather is better now though.
As a Brit the thing I like about domestic testing is that they use our roads as reference (Although this is not applicable in this video). If you don't know, British roads can be rather bumby so listening to the ride and handling feedback on these roads is vital for me as a consumer.
C4S is always the best...having widebody all wheel drive and without the high maintenance of the turbo.
4S for me represents control for all whether conditions and the 2S represents a crash in your first mistake! A lot of fun until something go wrong... and the 4S let you slide at same!
Carrera 2S for me every single time!
you haven't driven a 4s, trust me, its one of the most tail happy cars I've been in, not the same as a gtr or a golf r, quite a shocker
Djordje Djurovic' I don't doubt that. I still prefer the 2 though. It's a matter of principle :p
@@djurovicgiorgio i've driven 4s 997 pdk, and still its c2s manual 997 that's my dreamcar.
I would definitely spec the 991 in the 2S form, but with a proper 7 speed manual. For that reason, I would rather have a 7MT C4S than a PDK C2S. Great comparison and I'm pretty sure on the dry surface, it would be a great battle as the PDK and RWD would be able to cut that 7 second margin between the 2. At the same time, the C4S would slide less and could make an even better time.
Just bring that comparison somewhere it doesn't rain all the time... It's always raining there and you get a half-assed comparison. Oh great the 4 wheel drive car performs better in the rain... Really!?!?
The guy that does the comparisons is cool people but please get a few day window to do this when it's dry...
Well it does rain quite a lot in the UK. How a car performs in the wet is just as important as how it performs in the dry.
And who gives a shit about how fast a car is in the dry anyway. It's less about balance and more about brute force then. A shit car can be fast in the dry. A shit car will always be slow in the wet.
Is it ever not raining in the UK?
No :0(
I heard it snowed there a few times
Right! Lol
This was the exact review I was looking for... But it was tested only in the wet, which obviously favors the awd c4s.. I would like to see this battle also in the dry. That would make it a much more complete comparison. Not only for how fast the lap times would be, but also the agility and handling differences, in feel and performance. How they handle differ. How good is the c4s's awd system... Etc. Can you do a part 2 of this comparison? Thanks!!
Stupid comparrision due to the wet conditions
-why didnt you start with the 2S!
Simple things........
Excellent video. One of the best I've seen. Unlike many others where they spend half the video talking BS and wasting time, this goes straight into the driving. Secondly, the shots from the outside are amazing and there are enough of them. Not just all from the inside of the car which is some of the most boring videos of all. Fantastic video.
definitely 458 SPECİALE VS GT3 i can't wait this competition
FERRARI 599 GTO VS LAMBORGHINI MURCIELAGO SV! COME ON PUTTING A GTO BADGE IN A FERRARI IS LIKE PUTTING AN SV BADGE IN A LAMBORGHINI! THIS WOULD MAKE IT THE ULTIMATE TRACK BATTLE OF THE CENTURY!!!!!
Surely a Aventador vs F12 ? Pointless comparing rather outdated cars.
Woo wow, calm your caps lock dude.
I love the blue Carrera 4S, especially with a manual trans. Thanks.
I love the ducktail rears end on the C2S... How about an F40LM v. 458 Speciale? That would be an epic battle.
A F40LM may be a tad difficult to aquire...
Why do all these reporters drift the cars when doing a fastest lap test?? Don´t drift and you will get better lap times!! And this test is not ok, 4S vs S on a wet track, no, do this again with a dry track and same spec on the cars, and NO drifting!! Then the S would be faster, less weight and more traction out of corners!!
It's rear placed, rear drive car on wet surface. It's not drifting.
The drifting is for the style shots in the vid. They've said repeatedly in comments of other vids that they don't drift for the actual lap times. Besides, you can see him not drifting during his commentary, just some light countersteer to keep the rear in line.
It will be very close though.. i know that s is lighter and weight is mostly at rear of the car, but the layout is sometimes doing tricky things that you need some control in front wheels.
More traction out of corners. I agree with everything but thats Not right
100%. This stupid drifting is unrealistic and if you did it on a public road you would either crash, die, kill someone or be arrested. You do not see racing drivers setting pole positions drifitng, this isnt rallying.
Great vid Dickie, love the way you can talk and drive at the same time! The track battles are a great idea, how about Exige S vs Cayman S?
Great review and the conditions really did show why many 911 Porsche owners love the 4S. If you live in an area with lots of rain or snow then the confidence and safety the 4S offers makes a huge difference. Even in the dry the 4S offers more confidence in tight corner situations with the extra weight over the front axle along with front tires clawing away allow you to put down the power sooner. 4S is my pick every time. This is a nice spec car too. Only thing i would change for my pick is to put the yellow cars front bumper and ducktail on the 4S. That would be sweeet!! Great review, thanks!!
What about Fiesta ST vs Focus ST?
Awesome video! Really surprised by the gap in times.
Wow that C2S is beautifully specced! Great video!
Suspension stiffness must surely have played a part here as well as accelerative traction? A softer car will usually go faster than a stiffer car in the wet if both are optimised.
Loving the ducktail spoiler on the C2S!
The, err yellow one
Wow finally ...long overdue btw!
it would be nice to see carerra 4s and audi R8 rain battle!
Great video guys!
Great driving! Great video! Cheers from USA
Awesome video but why do you these tests in Europe always seem to be on a wet track? Even Top Gear. It pretty much nullifies all of the results. No one really cares how the car does in the rain. It's the dry warm weather where you can explore the limits of these cars.
thank you.
Well, Evo and Top Gear are both based in England.
If that doesn't answer your question, then you should probably look up how weather in England works.
Does England have sunny days? I really doubt.:-)
Because this is real world weather not some desert climate.
I'm pretty sure the PDK has a fully manual mode, in which it doesn't downshift on its own at all. Anyway, great video, too bad the battle got ruined by the rain :|
Its clear that the C4S is really quick, but would it still be able to hold it in the dry? I'm even more interested now after seeing this huuuge 7 seconds difference. I expected something closer, 3-4 seconds.
Also a GT3 vs 911 Turbos S or at least C2S would be nice... among other milions of car combinations :)
Man of many watches!
Well done for not following the crowd!!
Nice video! - A wish list?
Do this again in the dry!
HAHAHA the configurator thing, so true lol
If a driver could have driven the 2S, the time difference would have been less.
MartinMarsiBooks Maby not 7 seconds but 4wd eat 2wd in rain and snow every day since they have two extra wheels digging for tracktion.
P1 vs LaFerrari vs 918 of course!
Just kidding ;-)
But a 650S vs 458 Speciale battle might be doable - that would be REALLY nice indeed!
Just because a car showed up at the Geneva Auto Show means that it's in anyone's hands.
idh0530
I didn't quite get your point there... Maybe you mean that it does not mean that it's in anyone's hands. But anyway, they promised that they'll get their hands on the 650S, so it shouldn't be too difficult to bring a Speciale along...
Joshua Müller They won't get the 650S anytime soon.
Thank you for the interesting track battle. Would love to see one where a 991 C4S compares to a 991 C4S with power kit. Does the power kit make such a difference in performance and sound ????
As an idea for a track battle, I'd like to see a McLaren P1 vs. Porsche 918. As a more practical track battle, the BMW M235i vs Audi S3 vs MB CLA45 would be interesting.
Carrera 2S please! With the PDK box, and in the blue of the C4S if you could.
The intro is so true LOL
+Snafu did you buy any actually at all?
buying used, practically new car is always smarter ;), what you did was a better choice. Hope you have fun with it!
So? Do I go for a C4S with PCCB, upgraded suspension. and PDK? What would be the ideal spec after this test?
Most of the twitchy reactions of the RWD Carrera come from the fact it has stiffer suspension on a greasy surface that needs a softer setup. This accentuates the reactions of the RWD that would already be more extreme in the wet. This needs a rematch in dry conditions and would be even better if both cars had the same options, like the suspension and the gearbox. Something tells me that in a faster circuit with high speed corners, with the same suspension, the RWD would be as fast as the 4WD even in the wet.
Nice driving dude!
Haven't watched it yet. Betting on 4S.
Where is Tiff?
I would like to see how the new still compares to the evo. The evo was so ahead of its time
I would have preferred to see a C2S with a manual as the enthusiast car vs a C4S with PDK representing the state of the art, both with standard suspension so you can daily drive it.
Need to see both in pdk and dry weather please 🙏🏻
In these conditions, you, Richard, were sliding around more and more confidently, in the C4S. You were noticeably more confident in the C4S as compared to the C2S...
The 4S would be for me.
Very pleased the question of "which is the most fun" was asked, shame it wasn't answered
that 2s.... that bumper is just smashing ;D
nice vid Dickie, as always. love your work mate.
I will be interested to see this again in the dry though.
and also - which was more involving and fun?
Great track comparison, thank you. Can you please compare the new BMW235i and the superseded 135i M sport Coupe. I have the feeling that despite the increase in power, the 135 coupe will win or at least match it. I think that the 135 may be a more focused car but it would be great to see the two go head to head round your track. The 135 coupe certainly feels more focused that M135 Hatch which I think the 235 more closely resembles.
I would like to see a track comparison between the 991.2 manual GT3 and 911R. If it's difficult to find a 911R, the GT3 Touring would be cool too.
Exige S vs 4C! Great driving!
The 4S is manual (although more involved and fun, quite a bit slower and therefore hard to compare), and doesn’t have the sport suspension. The additional drivetrain components necessary to implement all-wheel drive likely add hundreds of pounds as well. Although the cars have equal power output, actual power at the wheels is decreased in the 4S due to parasitic loss.
*Parasitic loss occurs due to mechanical friction that happens in drivetrain components in the process of transferring power from the engine to the wheels. Transmissions, driveshafts, bearings, torque converters (if applicable), differentials etc. Extra rotating mass from the front drive components also result in lost power.
Rough drivetrain loss estimates for a rear-wheel drive manual vehicle run in the 10% range. Traditional torque-converter automatic transmissions add ~5% more, as does all-wheel drive in comparison to front or rear only.
In the case of this comparison, the all-wheel drive 4S is going to have a disadvantage in wheel horsepower due to higher drivetrain loss. The manual will not make up the difference because Porsche PDK transmissions (like the 2S has) aren’t the same as traditional autos; they operate internally similar to a manual, so there is little to no decrease in efficiency in comparison to a manual.
Edit: They also tested in the wet! I get that the slippery conditions give back some of the advantage to the AWD 4S as far as lap times, what it really does is make it even harder for viewers to draw proper conclusions on these vehicle’s comparable performance.
Porsche 991 911 Turbo S vs Ferrari 458 Italia, Please Evo
These two are not in the same league performance wise.
Tiancong Xu You'd be surprised, It would be closer than some think...
Tiancong Xu
0-60 for the Turbo S is faster than the 458 and other performance figures are almost the same. Money wise, they're not in the same league, but performance wise, Porsche takes more out of a flat 6 than Ferrari out of a V8
3ndriago unfort a lot of people on here haven't a clue about this kinda stuff... yes the Ferrari is a masterpiece but that 911 is a beast. again, it would be a helluva compro between the 2
I think I'd be happy with either... lol
Great video! The 4S bares no resemblance to a 2008 WRX I used to own, driving my wrx was easy mode.
For racing, all wheel drive will always be better than rear wheel drive. The price you have to pay for all the benefits, mostly getting out of a turn much faster, is the additional weight that you have to carry. But as we see here, and we can see in several other racing competitions with quattro, all-wheel drive is superior. For going fast in a straigt line or long distance driving, 2 wheel drive proofs to be more efficient.
two wheel drive also transfers more power to the wheels than 4wd
Maybe on wet conditions, snow and gravel. But in most racing RWD is used and is better. You might get better power out of the corners but the uncorrupted steering in a RWD car is to prefer. In all kind of racing on track they all use RWD. The only AWD I've seen is Audi in the German championship DTM.
toko boxua a localized power, not more power. Think venturi.. analogize. RWD also gives a feel like you are pinned into the seat.. the AWD takes some of that away...and still going faster in the end.
bezor Ta Loebs Peugeot 208 T16 is AWD. Im pretty sure that means AWD is superior, right?
Great Video! I would like to see a track battle between jaguar f-type coupe r and a ferrari California T! when the time comes of course...
458 vs 911 turbo S
F12 vs Turbo S
What about compairing a NA Toyota Supra against a Toyota Gt-86, to see if Toyotas cars were better in the earlier days ?
Good video although my favorite is the one with the Toyota GT 86 and the Ford Fiesta ST. I want to see a track battle between the Fiesta ST versus the Peugeot 208 GTI, two great little rockets with a reasonable price tag.
Seemed like he even drove the C4S harder and the weather took factor too.. Too bad it wasn't a better comparison
E92 m3 dct vs 991 c2s pdk. Dickie what was your thoughts on the manual vs pdk?
LaFerrari vs P1 vs 918 Spyder. Pleaseee car makers, let this happen!
4S with manual is always going to be more fun and practical.
Awesome vid, Dickie. Not sure what's better - the plate on the C4S or the Sport Techno wheels haha
You should do that c4s vs a gt3 since they are so similarly priced. In wet conditions the outcome could be very interesting
Finally some good music...:)
Great comparison. I would love Ferrari 458 Speciale vs. MClaren 650s, but I know it might be too early to get the second.
It's like you were reading my mind, thanks.
just like RS4 vs M3 in wet, before ignition you always know which one will win.
Carrera 2S? It's just the Carrera S!
They refer to the Carrera S as a 2S/C2S all the time. Get with it.
Why?
doubletapproductions C4S refers to Carrera 4S and C2S refers to Carrera S, it's easier to say and is a very quick reference to the specific powertrain in that car.
Tripat Sandhu
Oh makes sense
because you also have the base carrera, with bit smaller engine which would be the C2
For future battle, I am curious to see the new GTI with and without the Performance Pack?
Would be good to see the Seat Leon Cupra 280 and the Volkswagen Golf R MK7 at head to head.
Examples of battles: Exige S vs 4C vs C2 vs Cayman GTS, GLA 45 AMG vs Macan S, GT3 vs Turbo (no S), 650S vs 458 Speciale, Zonda R vs Huayra, , and maybe F12 vs BAC Mono....but I think everybody dream is LaFerrari vs P1
I forgot M235i vs CLA 45AMG
GT3 is the only spec 991 I'd be interest in. Steering is average on the rest of them.
However if I definitely wanted a manual Porsche, and now that Porsche has robbed us of the opportunity to have a manual GT3, I'd chose a Cayman GTS manual or just a really nice 997 with proper hydraulic steering.
Maybe it's just an illusion of the camera, but just before the 3:00 mark, there is a ton of heat mirage coming out of the back of the C4S that shows up at multiple different angles. Didn't expect that.
I'm amazed how surprising it was to see a reviewer actually change gear. I'd have the 4S if it was my only car and the 2S if I could afford a few cars in my garage. As for a track battle.. well 918 vs P1 vs Lalalalaferrari obviously. In your own time...
I think the 458 speciale vs 650s might be one of the most desired ones
What are the must-have options on carrera S ?
Great vid as always. I think the comparison would have been more interesting though if they both had the same options. Like the same tires, transmission, suspension, and brake options. I don''t know if the result would have been any different though.
Very cool... Do you think the C4S would still be faster in the dry? Also, which is more fun? Have a car with similar spec to the C2S arriving next week! (Sport suspension, PDCC and power pack)
Love your videos! I agree with the comment below...4S should have had the PDK and the 2s should have been manual.
Did you guys ever do the updated battle with the cars on dry?
Pagani Huayra vs Lambo Aventador... Now that's going to be some specticles....
WANNA SEE THE GT3 VS Jaguar XKR-S GT!
918 vs p1 would be the ultimate track battle
458 Speciale vs 650S vs GT3 or their big brothers (the hybrids). No doubt those would be the best comparisons of the year
i woul love to see the difference with a 911 turbo s PDK vs 911 gt3 on track
I just love that ducktail spoiler.
RS Clio200 Cup vs RS Clio 200 EDC ? Great skills Dickie !
911 GT3 vs 911 turbo S !
GT3 vs. SLS Black!
I would like to see 991 Turbo S vs 991 GT3 in the dry.
More Fast and Furious, drifting-on-a-track comparisons? Sigh.
I guess they think the Fast and Furious crowd can afford these cars and would buy them for nothing more than to slide them around....these vids become more lame. I'm assuming these journalists don't know how to actually put down a good lap so they make up for it with showboating.
Harry Tetzlaff What an absolute load of tosh. Dickie Meaden is a very experienced racing driver across numerous events so I'm pretty sure he can put down a very good lap.....
The Porsches are not meant to be real track cars, they've always been about the driving experience, and driving fun (of course on a track they are excellent, but that's not the point).
For many people, driving fun means drifting, and Porsches are actually amazing at it.
Plus most people buying a Porsche will never use it to do serious laps on a track, the majority will not even go on a lap with it..
So the drifting comparison isn't that much dumb.
Finally, most of the viewers of their videos will never have the chance to buy these kind of cars, so they just are meant to make people dream, drifting with a Porsche is quite good in this field too :)
I take mine to the track all the time
Why is it dumb? That exhibits how the car can be controlled and how nicely balanced the car is. Plus, I'd be hard pressed to say that you wouldn't enjoy a ride in a 911 with someone drifting it
I would like to see GT3 against the Turbo. Too many Porsche's you say? No way!