Incredible Charging Speed But Not Without Issues? Kia EV6 Prototype Charging Testing From 0-100%
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- Опубликовано: 14 сен 2021
- Kyle is back with another DCFC deep dive, this time with the new Kia EV6 with the ~77kWh ~800v battery pack!
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Kyle, Hyundai and Kia said that they vary amperage during charging to prevent Lithium plating. Sometimes it seems to do diagnostic tests (dropping at 80% to 0 for a few seconds). So that's just part of having such an insane charging curve and I don't think you can call them "issues"
Great point to bring up! - Kyle
@@OutofSpecReviews The Ioniq 5 also does battery cell balancing at around 80%, guess the EV6 is the same.
@@Zedilt balancing takes more time…
I took the the time…10 to 80% was 3 min Late. Not 18min. But its still outstanding for the price.
@@susihormon7821 you can't compare 10-80 in a 0-80 charge. You have to start at 10% to get that time. Just watch some Ioniq 5 charging videos. It's the same system
Without a doubt Kyle does the most thorough, useful, and informative EV reviews available to the consumer.
I actually wasnt expecting this to be that impressive but this really has moved the car to the top of my list (Maybe the EV6 GT!)
What country do you live in? I'd love this to go to the top of my list, but I live in the UK and there simply isn't the charging infrastructure in place yet. Unfortunately, the only option for long distance travel is a Tesla. Not saying the Tesla is bad, just it's the only option if you want consistent en route fast charging.
@@yoric7200 I live in the USA near a lot of non Tesla chargers
@@yoric7200 this car accepts any kind of chargers, it will beat a Tesla in this category
@@iargueta1220 I think you've missed my point.
@@yoric7200 I think you didn’t quite understand what I said. If you can charge a Tesla car where ever you live you can charge this one! You can even hook up a regular power cord to this car and charge it so where ever you are or live you should be able to charge this car no problem 😉
A summary:
1- 0 to 10% in 3 minutes (8 kwh total energy put into battery in 3 min)
1.1- 0 to 20% in 5 minutes (16 kwh input)
2- 10% to 47% in 7 minutes (~30 kwh ~ 180 km range in 7 minutes)
3- 10% to 57% in 10 minutes (~38 kwh ~ 238 km (147 miles) range in 10 minutes)
4- 0-63% (50kwh total put into battery) in 16 minutes, with a 17.2 kWh per 100 kilometers efficiency (an optimistic rating though), 230-290 km range in 16 minutes.
5- 0-82% in 26 minutes (66 kwh total put into battery)
6- 10-90% in 33 minutes (74 kwh total put into battery)
7- 0-98% in 43 minutes (81 kwh total put into battery, actual max capacity is 77 so ~ 7 kwh is lost or spent for cooling during charge)
8- 10-98% in 40 minutes (73-8=65kwh total put into battery, may be an actual 60 kwh added)
9- 20-90% in 28 minutes (57 kwh input, an actual 52 might be added, so 230-290 km range in 28 minutes)
"2-": 10% to 47% in 7 minutes (140 km (86 miles) range added) is a good indicator for a realistic quick top-up scenario in city driving when you are in a hurry.
"4-", "6-", "8" or "9-": if the thermal fluctuation is mitigated, this car is able to add 230-290 km (145-to 180 miles) range in 20 minutes in more realistic road trip scenarios ("6-" or "9-"). (0 t0 80%, 0-90% is not realistic)
YOU'RE DOING GODS WORK LOL
~200 miles in 15 minutes, that’s the new king if they keep it for production release and hopefully ensure that’s not damaging the battery hitting the thermal limits (potentially) the way it seems to be. Porsche, Audi and Model 3 can get 200 miles in 18 minutes. That’s an amazing charging lineup! Love it.
What's the problem with the design ? it looks better than the Mach E.
Lets get ready for more exploding batteries!!!
@@mamadouaziza2536 Let’s hope not. Unlike GM Kia didn’t prolong their issue by trying to save face and skimp on replacement costs. We will see what they do moving towards production, it looks like they are definitely on the right track and just need to address the heat concerns and hopefully achieve 250+ miles EPA. If they do both of those, plus what we can see already, this will be one heck of an EV option. Even better if they can manage 300 miles EPA, but that’s a bonus not a necessity. *** CORRECTION *** This was Hyundai Kona, Kia with the same platform didn’t have an issue from the battery supplier (different supplier) so even better news!
Soon it will be 15 seconds ! :)
@T C “already” lol.. “already” .. that’s all that needs to be said about your opinion. “Already” 😂
Another excellent upload. Thanks for taking the time, going into so much detail. Lookin forward to the next upload.
Just found your channel a few days ago and I must admit, this is really fantastic stuff. Really appreciate your style of videos. 👍
This is exciting even for a senior citizen like me. We currently drive a Tesla model Y and we really like the drivetrain, electronics, and charging infrastructure of the Tesla. However, those charging rates appear to be fast, and we are interested in cross country travel so we are looking forward to the seeing the production version.
Beware of the charging infrstructure. Even in Europe its not always very "nice" to us EV drivers. Tesla works, all others are - i surely do hope that they will work when i neded them.
I love your passion nerding out about this. GREAT VIDEO!
Maybe you don’t know why I’m watching this video (as you’re saying 😊), but you most definitely knows more about batteries than I do… so new subscriber right here! - And I got an EV6 GT incoming in Q4 2022, so - IMO - a very interesting video. 👍😊
Thank you Kyle, awesome content. So cool to see you with Kris (and Bjorn...?) too! My fav. RUclipsrs together. Would be so cool if you could visit Norway/The Nordic countrys on your way home. Greetings from a Swedish fan!
It's a great stat for Kia - the are setting the bar for charging - they have a 800V platform too ? I guess.
Now Tesla and VW have to react - living in awesome times
Rimac tech. Same as Porche Taycan. Watch some video from Mate Rimac and he tells the brands that are using his tech. They all have their own department at the fabric in Croatia.
Since you in Norway, try a Kempower charger. It gives you the curve as it charges which is such a good feature.
Thank you for covering this, this car is super impressive
800v tech in provided by Vitesco a Conti spin-off, which happens to go public tomorrow. German car suppliers are switching to electric drive trains, battery management etc. Great to see premium tech now in this segment.
Good that you mentioned this is not the normal for EV owners to charge. So many people just now considering their first electric.
Wow! That is incredible to see those high kWatts!
This has been an incredible trip for you. Now hurry back to (hopefully?) cover the Lucid factory event in a couple weeks.
10 or 20% to 80% would be a more typical charge.
Wow, that was amazing! Thermal throttling seems to make sense but I’m no engineer. Perhaps have an OBDII transmitter attached for the production model to keep an eye on the battery pack temp
Dude. I found my Soul replacement. Thank you.
I have a 2016 Soul. Can't wait for this one!
@@cauthoncrazy have an 18 Soul. Want to trade in a couple of years. Can’t wait to see what the real world production model does.
So you saying that you would sell your soul for an EV6 ?
@@davidedwards4125 Maybe. It’s bigger than I need or want especially since hubs has Mach E and we are empty nest so no need to haul a lot of people. I’m also considering an Arcimoto and keeping the Soul until the end of its life. The Arcimoto would be useable for me three seasons of the year and perfect for my few trips a week out of the house on errands.
The car has an onboard converter to charge its 800v battery from 400v DC chargers, but I wonder what the max charge rate in in this case as the limit may be the converter - would be interesting to do a test on a non-800V high power charger
that's not correct it's only the 400v charger that goes though the inverter and motor then to the battery via the BMS. the 800v charger goes straight to the battery via the BMS. this info was mentioned on the Hyundai E-GIMP video, totally agree with you on the charging tests on a 400v chargers
Very interesting good job as usual
I think I’ll wait for this to come to the US. This would be such a great car for my first EV!
can't wait to see some real world results on really hot summer days and really cold winter nights. But yes, this is a game changer!
@out of spec Reviews Incredible. Time for a new Cannon ball challenge
Me charging my Kona at 25kW DC here in India be like 😳😳😳
Similar... me charging my Kia Niro EV at 24kW... so slow...
Can you camp in the EV6? I’m especially curious about the length of the load floor with the seats folded down.
E-tron and model x both left the chat
Great vid! Charging speed will be the way to go and less battery size.
I've been waiting to buy either ioniq 5 or ev6 because of the charge. I've also been waiting for this video from you. I was a little iffy if this whole 0-80% in 18 mins was a gimmick or not. But these test looks legit.
The wording is 10-80 in 18 minutes, which should hold up pretty much, given sufficient condition on the battery.
@@stigerimikalsen1199couldn't remember off the top of my head. Still impressive
@@BillSauceify Yeah, not many cars which can compete on charging. i.e. The Nissan Ariya which fails to compete on both price, performance and specs
That 800v capacity is what almost convinced me to go for the EV6 rather than the Mach-E, but the design and some other differences kept me with the Ford. That said, I don't plan on keeping the Mach-E for more than 3 years once I get it next summer; by then, more EVs will likely offer 800v charging.
Kyle: Important:
to unlock battery heating while charging in low temperatures, manual says just turn on « Winter mode » in EV Settings both for EV6 and Ioniq 5 . This function is available only if battery heater option is chosen. It is cut off when SOC is too low (value ?)
This is simply amazing 👏
Not to get off the topic of the EV6 (very interested in it) but you mentioned that the ID4 is getting 175kwh charging speed in the future. Where else did you mention that prior to this so I can check it out? Thanks
comparison of to charging sessions:
in second session, after you top-up 17-18 kWh (from 40% to 60%) total energy into car, it slows down from ,~220 kWh per-hour speed to 130 kWh and adds another 18 kWh with this speed until 80%. (40 to 80% in 13 minutes).
in the first session the charging maintained over ~220 kWh per-hour speed for 10 minutes to add 37 kWh energy (0 to 47%).
Wow! All the way to 303 Amp, taken in 234 KW , it is insane. Super cool, the best super charging ever existed. 😲😲
Kyle did you have an OBD reader or does the car indicate that it would preheat the battery in any way if you do navigate to a charger?
Without obd2 reader it is way easier to speculate upon cold battery or battery overheating.
As charge percent goes up, so does voltage. You can only get kw from the volt/amp product. With higher voltage the current is limited by the delta. At low charge lots of delta between battery and charger, approaching the end the voltage delta is very small.
I let go my Model Y and I am on the waitlist for the EV6 First Edition in Urban Yellow.
Me too. Pre-ordered first edition, the "whitish" color with green/black interior
Do you have a price yet?
This is why I am getting the EV6 GT as a replacement to my iPace next year when the lease is up.
cool the Future is promising I would like to know if the EV6 and the Ionic 5 have the same battery supplier because in the Kona and the Niro they are different .
They are the same. Both use the E-GMP base - it's cost effective to develop new vehicles using the same platform. IONIQ 5 has the same charging parameters and has been out for over 4 months now (Korea/Norway/UK/Germany).
Please, what's the car engine temperature while charging 0-100%? And was the temperature changing as it charges or completely stable?
The limit can either be thermal or cell balancing. If one cell gets overcharged (vs others) it needs to balance it, and that would require slowing charging or if it’s very unbalanced, stop charging completely for a few seconds or even minutes.
I had this image of you calling a hockey game.
i tell you crazy dude, filled 68 liters tank and paid for it in less than 5 minutes, wow!!!!!!!!!!!!
From the Ioniq 5 published charging curves, this is a thermal and battery dendrite process. You notice how then step up the power to allow the charging to heat the battery then you have the pauses to keep the battery at optimal charging temperature. My bet is, if they even it out, the charging speed and time will be negatively affected.
is the iconiq5 the same? would you expect it to charge the same way?
Are there going to be any ionity fast chargers in North America anytime soon?
Is the maximum charging power for the Kia EV6 350 kW? Does it preheat the battery when choosing a charging point in the navigator? 🤔🤔🤔
WOW, this is the new EV king. the real tesla killer right here.
@Kyle , under what conditions did you manage to get such charging speed ? No matter what I do - can't charge faster than 130 kW, even at 17°C.
How did you prepare battery, for the charging?
Incredible! If the quality is good inside then this is my next car.
I have sat in one, it is properly nice inside.
Very nice. For road-trip use case, 5-80 or 5-90 is most relevant. That’s how you drive EVs on long trips. Would be great to see how quickly it does 5-80 and then to 90 and 100 (one charge, just get time stamps for 80, 90 and 100)
He already said that in the video.
Where's the range-test you did that you mentioned at the end of this video?
You mention battery preconditioning, but I only see reviews indicating that isn't available on the EV6. Charge in winter is very slow as a result. What was meant by this?
You have to Cannon Ball in the EV6!!!
I'm wondering if there is any way to thermally manage it and keep a flat curve.
It's possible that they looked at this and decided that if your goal is to get in and out of the charger as quickly as possible.
It may be that the fastest way to accomplish that is to dump a bunch of current as fast as the car will allow and then let it rest for and cool and then hit it hard again.
A lot of electric vehicles don't have a glycol radiator like an ice car, they don't have a huge volume of coolant to dump heat into.
They use the air conditioning system to cool a glycol loop that circulates through battery, motor and inverters.
I'm not sure that any air conditioning system you could possibly put in the car would have enough thermal ability to dissipate that much heat input continuously. So the high input and then slowing down and then high input and then slowing down may end up being the fastest way to get the car charged.
It won't present a very nice charging curve but your average person buying the car isn't really going to care about that. All they care about is when they plug in the car and then go to the grocery store or the bathroom when they come back the car is mostly done already.
If I had to pick between a nice charging curve and getting the car charged quicker I'm going to pick quicker .
No. This battery chemistry necessitates a throttling back o fthe charge rate after about 50% to ensure the maximum cell voltage is not exceeded. There is no way to circumventing this without destroying the cells. It is not a thermal issue.
@@nordic5490
Why does it go.. to almost zero then... For period of time. and back to 180kw. Seems like a thermal throttle to me..
To check pack voltage I don't think it would need to go to zero charge rate.
I don't think an AC system could eliminate that much heat energy continuously during charging.
And Kyle mentioned he had not seen that behavior on other cars...
More testing may be needed to see how it regulates.
Maybe it's both.
Does anyone know if the reverse beep sound can be adjusted a bit lower on the 2022 ev-6
Thank you for the review...wish it was feasible and affordable for a rural family, sigh.
at the end of the day, evs need to implement 22kw on board charger in order to enable faster home charging. current 11kw on board charger is still too slow.
this is because countries like malaysia, where i live in, ev public chargers are still in infancy
Kyle based on your experience how do you think the higher charging rates affect battery degradation ?? Ex; I saw a few RUclips vids showing I’d.3 losing 9%after only a year. Seems cooling is a big variable n everyone does it different.
Fast charging kills the battery. There is a 8yr old Model S with 96% of their origional battery capacity, because it was never fast charged.
Excellent, thanks, but the real problem is finding chargers to deliver this rate, but they will come. This car is definitely setting the bar at a very high level.
Electrify America has them on most interstates 50 to 100 miles apart. You can filter on Plugshare by 200+. The network is extensive and only getting larger.
Any info on the efficiency of the car?
I wish all ev cars published standardised charging data .
For heat pumps and solar photovoltaic panels the standard that all manufacturers use is the “solar key mark “ standard.
The data is all on a single web site where you can do apples to apple comparisons.
It’s a range of scenarios that are tested
It's still early days for the E-GMP 800V system and the tech needs to be further "baked" IMHO. Longevity/reliability is certainly a top concern for me - I find it hard to believe that "balls out" DCFC sessions like this is healthy for the life of the pack. That said, sporadic max DCFC sessions makes this a great road-tripper once "battle-tested".
yup NO FREE LUNCH. personally I couldn't care less what a BEV's charging curve does or doesn't do, it's pointless. it's set by Engineers so even if one doesnt like it, it's not like you can do anything to change it. and whatever it IS doing when plugged in i'll be completley unaware of anyway since I'll be wisely using that "idle time" to either be eating dinner...? shopping for groceries...? or running some other errand demanded by adult life. if one is sitting staring at a charging curve then you've got to wonder who's changing the baby...? who's cutting the grass...? etc.
Are the key FOB's rechargeable via the car?
I wonder if one day self-serve washing stations will have chargers. I would love to be charging and cleaning out my car and get done vacuuming and stuff to a nicely charged battery after like 15min cleaning.
My next car for sure. Coming off an 2017 Optima Hybrid. 👍
I wish that we could retrofir the headlights in north America. The reflector LED's are not great
You will need to fast charge to 100% on occasion, depending on where you're located. Thanks for the testing.
That should be less of an issue as time passes. Well depending on if society collapses or not.
PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU WOULD BUY THIS CAR OR THE WV ID 4. LOOKING TO BUY ONE IN 2022. Thank you
The Ioniq5 seems to throttles motor power when the battery max hits 45 plus, at 51C it might be down to 70kW. Expect the same might be happen here too if you jumped in and drove hard straight away.. Something else to watch. The battery cools back to 45 anyway if charged to 100% because the charging KW is way down at the high SOC at the end. Motor throttling in the I5 seems to be when the high KW are being pumped ie when thermal throttling is going on.
Tesla Bjorn says he's seeing issues with pack temperature management and throttling. Can we get a follow-up test with a battery temperature gauge?
Has real potential. 🤔
Do you have any specs on charge time to range?
Meaning.. if I start a trip off full ish battery. Drive for 2 hours.. so that’s 120 miles ish, stop for a bathroom break. And snack. Average time spent 10-15 minutes
If I plugged my car in at that point of 120 miles in, for 10-15 minutes. How many more miles of range do I get?
This is important as if my trip is 300 miles and my destination has NO chargers. I need to ensure I have enough miles once I arrive to head back with same model. Drive 2 hours and stop for quick break.
If you have those specs for: Kia ev6 and Tesla model y…. That would be amazing! Thanks!
Please do a test of anywhere from 10 or 20% to 80 or 100%
I normally charge at home or the odd time at my local charge point 22kw or the fast charger at 50kw. And I try to charge at 20% to 80%.
I love the Kia EV6 but I’m afraid what these charging speeds will do to the battery.
Heat is what damages the batteries. The pack is wired in parallel and series combination so each cell isn't seeing too much C. There's also a buffer at the top end.
@@jghall00 Yes so a 400V Tesla charging at 160kW is more amps than the Kia charging @ 230kW. Providing the temperature is optimal it shouldn’t damage the cells. I mean we’re stll talking 3C charging rates for the Kia and long term that’s going to shorten pack life, but not as much as say continually cycling 0 - 100%.
Wont be a problem unless its 50 Degrees Celcius outside and toy rapid charge all the time. But even then, it wont be that of a issue. It can be adjusted via FW update. Kia offers 7 years warranty of the car. 8 years battery warranty...
Pretty nuts. My MY LR takes around 35-40 min to go from 10 to 80% most of the time and obviously much longer above that. 96 percent in 40 min is batshit.
It does not need thermal management improvement or "smooth" curve or anything like that. This jump is intentional and is there to prevent Lithium buildup on the electrodes. There is actually a research paper on this, and it lists exactly a such charging curve with intermediate dips.
I’d love to see that source also mate if possible? Ta
This reminds me of bad overclock job. Your CPU peaks over 5GHz for a minute or two, then it gets stuck throttled down to less than 1 GHz as the CPU cooler is begging for mercy until the load goes away.
Prototype GUI with Comic Sans. LOL.
This battery chemistry necessitates a throttling back o fthe charge rate after about 50% to ensure the maximum cell voltage is not exceeded. There is no way to circumventing this without destroying the cells. It is not a thermal issue.
What is the effective charge rate for a Nio battery swap? About the only thing that might be faster and safer? Keep up the good work.
Absolutely insane! Polestar peeps, take some notes!
IONIQ 5 does the same thing around 70% they take a short break from charging then come back with 160kW charge in the 70 percentile.
The future is so bright I need to wear sunglasses.
Time to sip a bit of rum, twirl my mustache, and nod approvingly. Quality time
I would be interested to know if this "chaotic" charging curve (likely cooling) affects the durability and longevity of the battery? Only time will tell.
7 years warranty, also on battery // max 150k km
If I get an EV6, I'll do a video of Phoenix summer charging. That'll be interesting.
Kyle love your reviews! Charging speeds are impressive, however, @ $.43 a KW at a fast charging station I would find myself charging my EV at home with much cheaper rates. Kia doesn’t offer 3 free years of charging like VW so in reality, the charging speed is impressive but I do not think it would really benefit me financially. Just plug the car at home while I am sleeping, cheaper & easier, although slower…
It's only for long trips
When you really think about it for a trip it's not bad. You could be at 50% and just charge it enough to get to the next destination. Go in to a convenient store for snacks, bathroom break, etc and after 15min come back to plenty of charge for less than $10.
I'd love to see this and the new Ioniq actually in the US market, and a much more widespread adoption of truly fast vendor-neutral chargers. Do we even know what the Ioniq will cost in the US yet?
$42k base
Do we know who supplies the battery on the EV6? I’m living through a Chevy Bolt recall and their defective LG batteries.
Google says it's SK Innovation.
WELCOME TO WORLD of LG BATTERY completely shut down BOLT 2022 production for a while
Apparently, the Hyundai gets the LG batteries, but not the KIA.
Think it’s thermals, too - also because of the power limit after charging.
The major dip at 80% is on purpose for diagnostics/cooling … I believe the Ioniq5 does it too.
Will you drive/test the Ioniq5 as well? 😍😍😍
yes, same dip like the ioniq.
Yes, he mentioned they are trying to get access to an IONIQ 5 in a few weeks.
@@ScubaSteveCanada awesome!!!
If this so the Kia I wonder what the do for the other sister car the gv60…. Same platform and they have more time for refinement. :)…. Might cop a Kia though for my everyday
A full charge in 47 minutes give or take, that’s actually not that bad. Most people won’t do that kind of charging all the time so a 10% to 80% in 15-30mins? Definitely doable.
how much did it cost t charge?
Now I'm gonna sell my TM3 for EV6 GT lets gooooo :D
Not bad. Just go to piss and take a coffe at the gas station and battery is full ;-)
Why does the charging curve need work? It charges 40 to 80 in 13 minutes! In other words, you can use the entire battery, it virtually doesn't matter at which SoC you plug it in. That makes it so much more useful than cars that you need to plug in at 5% and unplug at 50%. Do you care about the jumps in the charging curve? No, you'll have to hurry up if you want to wee in 13 minutes.