Sydney Metro Vlog 33: New Siemens Metro Trains Coming Our Way - Western Sydney Airport Line
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Sydney Trains Vlogs
Sydney Metro Vlog 33
New Siemens Metro Trains Coming Our Way
Western Sydney Airport Line
#travel #travelvlog #sydneymetro
I love the concept of the 2 X 2 bus-style seating. Being able to sit facing the direction of travel.
I don’t understand why they didn’t just extend the future Sydney to parramatta metro line out to the airport, more directly linking the 2 CBDs to both airports
Because Sydney Metro West to Parramatta opens in 2032 and the airport opens in 2026.
It is mooted to construct that line as the airport develops its second runway and much larger capacity by the 2060s. If you look at some of the drone footage of the airport online you can see how allowance has already been left for it to run parallel with the St Marys Metro. Note the four track width Elizabeth Drive underpass, and how space has been left under bridges and alongside (eastern side) of the metro line currently being built through the Airport Business Park, before they both dive underground.
Also suggest we all stop thinking about "connecting the two CBDs" as the primary role of the Airport Metro. It's meant to be the transport spine running north to south through Western Sydney. Western Sydney already has a bigger population than the rest of Sydney and is rapidly expanding into the area around the new airport. It's a city in its own right. The old days of 'everyone needs to be able to go into harbourside Sydney to get work" are increasingly disappearing.
It's planned for the future
Money, like everything. It's not a high priority given a connection already exists, although it is easier for a single journey without having to change trains so we'll see how appealing airport metro is to driving. Also, imagine the added flexibility if not every new line had to be driverless? It would allow for easier connections to other parts of the city. Northwest is the same, it would have been much easier to sort out the bankstown link if and connect it all to Liverpool and Lidcombe if it wasn't completely incompatible. Stupid planning
Western Sydney airport will not have night flight restrictions. So it is expected that this airport will become an airport of low-cost international airliners arriving or departing late night and also low-cost airlines like Scoot availing cheap early morning or late night slots. Business travellers or premium international airline customers may still prefer Kingsford Smith Airport.
It also seems like the Government is not only expecting mainly the Western Sydney population to patronise the Western Sydney airport but also discouraging the Eastern and Northern Sydney people from using the Western Sydney airport.
Once the pressure ease up on KSA, the Government will invite some more international players to set up shop in KSA.
I can see the Metro being tested at Central Station just today. Looks like the line between Chatswood and Sydenham is almost ready.
Yeah the trains are now through running to Sydenham and picking up passengers at Chatswood!
@@SYDTrainsFilms no they are not, they still under test conditions
@@davidandrewartha6002 I assumed he meant the north-bound test trains were the trains that provided passenger service.
Definitely great to have variety in the fleet, but I am a bit skeptical of the 3 car concept.
Yeah bit like going back to the old 4 car red rattlers.
imo should be fine for now. Apart from the airport, there is really not much demand for the metro as the surrounding land of many of the stations are either undeveloped or low density.
@@jeremelee1862 In the mid twentieth century that was true of everywhere west of Strathfield. Now major suburbs further west and south west were then isolated villages connected by rail lines running to Albury and to Bathurst and beyond.
Western Sydney developed along those lines running as far as placeslike Penrith and Liverpool and Campbelltown, turning them into the western cities and suburbs of today. The West now outnumbers people in the rest of greater Sydney. That’s the effect rail lines have in urbanisation.
Go for a drive and see the development already happening from Narellan to St Marys filling in the less developed space even before the airport is open. Higher capacity metros, like along the Bankstown line will also transform the area, to gentrify and create mostly high rise living within a decade or two of opening.
Platforms are designed for four carriage trainsets and the vehicles (like the existing CSW metro stock) can easily be lengthened. Running three carriage trains isn't an issue so long as you run them at closer frequencies (more seats per hour). Something a driverless metro system can easily achieve.
I did a reply to this same query elsewhere here.
If you look at the official estimates for people travelling, the airport will start with handling about 10 million a year from 2026 (slightly less than Adelaide, or more than Canberra and Gold Coast airports combined) and end up at about 80 million in the 2060s (equivalent to London Heathrow and around twice the current Sydney Airport.)
The metro has 3 cars, expandable to 4 (just like the current metro has 6 expandable to 8). It will initially operate about every 6 minutes each way. That requires about 10 of the 12 trains to achieve on the short run between St Marys and Bradfield.
By 2063, the highest usage of transport into the airport is at about 9am, at about 13,000 / hour, with an average during the day of around 6000 / hour.
Initially from 2026 it will peak at only about 1700 per hour and average 750. Remember that's spread over 10 trains per hour, so a peak train load of about 170, and an average of about 75. That's not a big load; most people will get seats.
The total (crowded) capacity of the system initially will be nearly 7700 per hour each way. By 2063 its capacity (using more trains sets, all with 4 cars, with services every 2 minutes each way) is about 22,000 per hour. That means, even at the peak of the day, most or all people will still get a seat.
If anything it seems underloaded, especially when most people will not be using the train, but being dropped off, parking, in a cab or on a bus, etc.
However, the extra capacity is there because it needs to help bring in staff (though not usually during peaks) and is designed for travel other than just to the airport. It forms the core of Western Sydney connecting from Schofields to Macarthur for work, study pleasure and shopping all along the route.
All the above estimates are available online in the environmental impact statement developed for the airport and its transport.
For a short haul line they are more suitable than the current rolling stock, this design should have been used on the soon to be switched on Bankstown/Sydenham/city/Chatswood line, more seating is a move in the right direction.
What is the government doing 🤦🏼 bringing in 2x2 seating for an airport train where there will not be enough room for luggage while the current line has the sideways less seats but those would allow easy storage for luggage. If anything these trains should be on the current line with the current trains on the airport line.
Yep they should use the current alstrom metro train and why 3 CARRIAGE that is tooo little for a airport
I doubt people on the CSW Metro will end up travelling more than 45 minutes from A to B. You need standing capacity for the busy North Shore, City and Inner-West segment, something transverse seating inhibits.
@@Aarav_Vispute If you look at the official estimates for people travelling, the airport will start with handling about 10 million a year from 2026 (slightly less than Adelaide, or more than Canberra and Gold Coast airports combined) and end up at about 80 million in the 2060s (equivalent to London Heathrow and around twice the current Sydney Airport.)
The metro has 3 cars, expandable to 4 (just like the current metro has 6 expandable to 8). It will initially operate about every 6 minutes each way. That requires about 10 of the 12 trains to achieve on the short run between St Marys and Bradfield.
By 2063, the highest usage of transport into the airport is at about 9am, at about 13,000 / hour, with an average during the day of around 6000 / hour.
Initially from 2026 it will peak at only about 1700 per hour and average 750. Remember that's spread over 10 trains per hour, so a peak train load of about 170, and an average of about 75. That's not a big load; most people will get seats.
The total (crowded) capacity of the system initially will be nearly 7700 per hour each way. By 2063 its capacity (using more trains sets, all with 4 cars, with services every 2 minutes each way) is about 22,000 per hour. That means, even at the peak of the day, most or all people will still get a seat.
If anything it seems underloaded, especially when most people will not be using the train, but being dropped off, parking, in a cab or on a bus, etc.
However, the extra capacity is there because it needs to help bring in staff (though not usually during peaks) and is designed for travel other than just to the airport. It forms the core of Western Sydney connecting from Schofields to Macarthur for work, study pleasure and shopping all along the route.
All the above estimates are available online in the environmental impact statement developed for the airport and its transport.
It’s important to note also that the middle carriage has longitudinal seating like the Alstoms, so there’s a mix depending on needs
Nice video Phil I can't for the metro line at the T3 line Bankstown for 2024 or 2025
Fur an airport train there seems to be limited specific spaces for luggage. The current Metro seat layout makes travelling with luggage relatively easy as it can sit immediately in front of you but with 2x2 not as easy to get larger luggage out of the way unless you use a seat which is not a good habit to encourage. Can’t tell it the carriage has larger overhead luggage racks but it should.
They did promise (as if they'll keep it) that the metro line would be operational on the first day of airport operations. (Don't hold your breath)
When dose the metro run under sydney harbour.
Cool but even though it’s 3 cars why 3
Because of demand. The airport will not have a lot of flights in the first years of operations and Bradfield City has yet to be built. 3 cars are sufficient to serve the rest of the line.
The market for flights out of Western Sydney is constrained by the lack of new planes that Qantas and Virgin don't have. These airlines slowly receive new stock by end of decade.
They might be coupled into 6 car sets, but that's just my theory.
3:00 why would they do 2x2 when people have massive luggage??
I’d say there would be luggage racks.
I hope so anyway.
There’s still time for design changes too
Feels like a mistake having the interchange at St Mary's. I see they are doing some upgrades, so hopefully it will make it feel more like an interchange and can handle the traffic that is bound to occur.
I wonder if they’ll change the Blue Mountains trains to stop at St Mary’s? Instead of Penrith?
Another opportunity Missed. Future of Western Sydney gets a Sydney Monorail lookalike
1. 10 x 3 carriages so NSW Govt ,expect this service will be a dud.
2. Not interoperable design.
3. As an Airport shuttle service as well as servicing Bradfield city & Aerotropolis. the seating depicted is FIXED one direction . Yuck!
4. not provision of luggage "revealed" . Just a BASIC Train style metro. Not seen at another major airport shuttles!
I have heard that they are only 3 car trains with only provision for 4 car trains. This is stupid & shows absolutely no foresight what so ever. Should have provision for 8 car trains. I much prefer the whole thing to have been double deck Sydney Trains anyhow. The whole Privatised single deck Metro is a massive backward step anyhow.
There should be no seats that face each other. Melbourne trains do this, and it's bloody uncomfortable. Your legs are in front of another persons legs. Tram seats face each other too & this is also very uncomfortable.
The one thing that makes Sydney's heavy rail trains so unique and so praised by reviewers around the world is the reversible seats. I, for one, cannot sit backwards on public transport as it causes motion sickness. It's such a shame that we are losing that function in the new Metro systems.
Agreed, the Sydney Suburban train seats are much more comfortable than these newer Metro style trains', we are progressing backwards in terms of passenger comfort here.
A train like this would he perfect for the hunter line with growth happening here and if Newcastle ever did a metro this would be perfect for it
I wouldn't jump to assuming that those photos are 100% accurate. All of them look to be a reworked version of the Alstom trains, from the louvred roof to the exposed and protruding anti climb buffers and the passenger doors being on a external sliding system rather than being of the plug style. This could just be Sydney Trains specifications though, (if so some ugly choices on the part of ST). We'll have to wait and see what they turn out to look like
One major thing they're missing are luggage racks, being used for an airport line, there's going to be lots of people with luggage. 3 cars does feel way too short for the use that they're going to get.
I wonder if they'll sound anything like the Desiro Class or the Desiro Cities (in DC mode) that we have over here in the UK.
does seem short but depends on frequency therefore. if its every 4 mins then it is fine.
They will have luggage racks.
Should I try to set myself a challenge to model these in Trainz before they enter service?
That would be so cool!
Hi Phil 👋 this looks like the "sporty" version of the current Metro trains. I think 3 cars won't be sufficient for an airport line with 6 cars being preferable. I like the seating plan which is preferable to the longitudinal seating in the current fleet, although I thought I could see longitudinal seating in the longshot (middle car).
Hi John!
I was just thinking that maybe they’d couple two sets together to make 6 cars but with the number of sets they are building vs the length of the line and frequency of service i don’t think it’s likely.
To have these trains 3 cars and to carry everyone the frequency must be high
Another thing i thought of is the New York JFK AirTrain.
That is a massively big airport and the automated AirTrains are from 1 to 3 cars in length.
They are used to take passengers around to different terminals at JFK but also to carry passengers to Jamaica or Howard Beach Subway stations.
Surprisingly these short Airtrain sets carry a lot of people.
They are quite frequent too (3-8 minutes apart).
@sydneytrainsvlogs I do agree with you, and frequency is the key to its success.
Great one Phil. Been waiting for a bit more info on these. From what I've read, Siemans seems to have a reasonably good reputation. Initially they will be three car sets, expandable to 4 when required. The stations will accommodate 4 cars. (Similar to the 6 car, but expandable up to 8 car sets approach, on the existing metro).
3-4 cars sounds about right to me. Mini-metros like this are designed for lots of frequent service rather than big train capacity. For those who think it's too little, I've ridden the Copenhagen driverless metro which is a city/suburban system similar in size and capacity (smaller if anything) and it does just fine.
12 trains = 6 per direction. The distance of the currently under construction track is 23 km, and there are six stations, so that basically means the next metro is just leaving the station before in each direction as each one departs. It's probably under a 30 minute run each way including stops and turning back, so that's a service around every 5 mins or so, each way.
As a 3 car operation I estimate it will seat around 250 with a total capacity of 500 or so, on each set. In an hour a set will do 2 trips each way (total of 4). That's 500 seated or up to 2000 per set each hour. With 12 sets that's 6000 seated or 24,000 total per hour.
Assuming they run normally for 18 hours per day, (not counting say 6 hours of single track running to facilitate maintenance each day), that's an annual capacity of over 2 million passengers seated or 8 million total each year. Like Sydney KSA airport only about 25% of people are likely to use the train, so it could cater for airport usage of 8 million sitting and 32 million a year using 3 car sets, or over 10 million seated, or 40 million with 12 x 4 car sets. That again could be multiplied by up to about 2.5 if more train sets were added enabling say 2 minute headways.
The initial airport usage is estimated at 10 million per year, rising to 80 million in 30 to 40 years time. The system will easily cope with the initial passenger loads (even after adding airport employees), and at a pinch could carry its entire expected passenger load by the 2060s if needed.
Keep in mind also that a second metro pathway is provided for through the airport (e.g. the Elizabeth Drive underpass can easily fit four tracks). By the time the second runway is needed, the additional metro extension from Westmead will probably be under construction.
Like Sydney KSA airport only about 25% of people are likely to use the train--What is your evidence? These 2 are so different. You can even walk to Central from Kingsford Smith in 90 minutes.
@@steveding2006
Great question Steve. I used the old actual figures for Sydney Airport (can't find them now, but you are welcome to search) which gave an actual for rail of about 24% IIRC, but it is several years old.
As for WSI, if you look at the Western Sydney Airport Environmental Impact Statement Vol 3 Chapter 33 Traffic, Transport and Access pages 87-93 (available online) you can see all the estimates, between different modes of transport for both passengers and staff, even broken down to indicate variations during each day. They are little more conservative, suggesting about 20% for rail. These are used to inform the capacities needed for stations, trains, parking, drop-off points and so on.
If you don't want to look it up, the summary for 2063 Domestic travel is Kiss'n'Fly 22%, Park'n'Fly 20%, Taxi 20%, Train 20%, Bus 13% and shuttle 5%. International differs slightly, but not greatly, and they explain how they, for example, allowed more dwell time for Kiss'n'Ride to be longer for International than Domestic passengers.
The EIS is very detailed, makes fascinating reading, and answers so many of the "why aren't they..---." or "why haven't they..." questions people pose online.
Are they signaling low patronage of the airport and have only allocated 3 car sets??
Seating would have made more sense if the metros "swap over".
Longitudinal seating for airport metro given it's a relatively shorter route and for passengers to "hold on to their luggage in front of them", and a mix of face-forward seating for the much longer Tallawong-Bankstown M1
Hi Phil,
I take it these Siemens trains were not made here. Nonetheless, they look fine with better seating than the current Metros. I wonder if these Siemens will replace the Alston Metros later on as I'm sure the residents between Tallawong to Bankstown would love to ride the Siemens instead of the Alstons. If only the seats on the Siemens were reversable. I guess we can't have everything.
Hey mate, generally I like your videos and this video has good info, but the background music was unnecessary and a bit distracting. You also need to put more effort into your voiceovers, at times you trailed off or lost your train of thought. Not a massive issue, just some feedback I hope you might find useful. Keep up the good work.
Hey mate :)
Thank you for your feedback!
I see what you mean about losing my train of thought for sure!
With the background music, would it be better if there was none at all? That’s something that i was curious about :)
Cheers for watching mate :)
They should continue the line to Leppington at least so it can connect to the main line going to Sydney Kingsford Airport via Wolli Creek connecting to the T4 line.
leppington is a south west station that does not have any route going to the airport. but only going via glenfield station that's it's only servicing that line going to the city. because if you build another line for that. it would not make any sense for that route because they have only one line at glenfield station that is going to that airport. it probably disturb too much of the network if they were too make another line going to Kingsford airport via leppington. because it would cost a lot of money to build a line & needs to be approved for anything to be built like that if it to exist but is not viable. because the network is already heavily congested. because we only got another new metro on the way now being built to the new aeroptropilos. its the government who's building this project that are not investing in anymore new suburban airport line because they only focusing on the new metro aeroptropilos line.
Looks pretty. But I don’t see any space there for luggage. So as per normal for this stupid state, we’ll have to navigate our way around luggage left in the aisle. Reminds me of school bags down the aisle of a bus!
Here is the problem I see…. What is the frequency of these services? And is 12 trains enough for this metro?
Initial operation is every 6 minutes in both directions. St Marys to Bradfield is not a long route, and that rate can be sustained by 10 out of the 12 x 3 car sets. As the line is extended to Schofiields and Macarthur, 4 car sets can be introduced (that's the platform size) and/or frequency can be increased to 2 trains per hour (with additional sets) over coming decades as demand increases.
I've done the numbers and provided the references in other posts here, but the peak load per train is about 170, and the average is 75 to service airport passengers. There will also be airport staff, but most of them start and finish outside the peak.
As the line is extended it will increasingly be the core of Western Sydney's transport system, rather used an just an airport train. People will use it to get to work, entertainment, shopping, studies and so on all along the route.
There is also provision already on the site for a second metro from Westmead to the airport, probably around when the second runway opens, which increases capacity significantly more
@Sydney Trains Vlogs will you do a ride-on video where you look out the front window of the new train in the future?
should have used Waratah reversible seats
3:00 why are there quad tracks, if the line only has two parallel?
Good question.
I guess the artist impression is more focusing on the train itself not what the line will look like :)
will they be asking for feedback on this train or is being built already? if not why didn't they, presumably the original metro did.
Very nice, however bring back the blue white S sets lol , nah just kidding sort of, 👍🍷
I prefer the Astlom one
Also they will likely add luggage racks
Hi Phil, great video. Are most of he seats fixed in place on these new trains or can the directions be changed? I only wish they would get the airport trains running here to Tullamarine. Anyway, take care. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
Those trains do look nicer. Supposedly they’re a different width though, so I dunno how they’re expecting to connect st marys with schofields.
I personally much prefer the 2x2 seating, as I can actually sit in the right direction. Sometimes when I sit sideways I end up feeling sick after
I still think it's bizzare that a state that exclusively uses 1500V DC electrification is planning to build a metro line powered with 25kV AC, it makes it impossible to interoperate in the future.
An airport train with no allowance for luggage! Meanwhile the long distance Tallawong trains would be much better for luggage cos you could place it in front of you. Can they swap them? Oh no cos they're different voltages and not compatible. Well done NSW Liberals who wouldn't catch trains anyway
Hopefully they've made provisions for expansion like they have with the six-car sets of the M1 becoming eight-car sets. I'm not a fan of the row seating for an airport, it's not a great use of space if people are lugging around, well, luggage. But it looks like the middle carriage will have longitudinal seating at least, so it's good if passengers will have some choice.
I certainly hope these trains are an improvement on the current Metro ones, which I have found to be noisy, draughty and uncomfortable. And as a dedicated airport line, they must surely have extra space for luggage.
Are those true scale " photos " or just Artist's impression ? They seem to be a LONG WAY wider than it should realistically be.
Obviously a versatile and trusted company are Siemens who have been manufacturing scientific and medical equipment for a very long time. Having a lifting squab of the seats makes for added options.
Such a shame to see so many of these rolling stock all over our Metro sstems not being manufactured in Oz..we had such great manufacturers in the early days of Oz made stainless steel skins.
The NSW government always under estimates patronage. They need to think long term, not short term. The Western Sydney precinct is projected to grow with another 1 million people within the next 20 years . A 6 carriage configuration is a no brainer from the start, expanding to 8 carriages in the future. This metro train line is the future of mass transit in the Western Sydney Precinct. Just like housing governments are short sighted unfortunately.
How not to plan.
How long will it take in total for how many transfers up and down stairs with all your heavy luggage and how long to get into the CBD? Compared with a bus or taxi.
Why the multiple models of trains? To add cost for maintenance?
I am surprised at the sitting configuration shown in the artist's impression. I saw detailed drawings that were submitted for an unsuccessful competitor and they had the two seat configuration as shown on one side only and longitudinal seating on the other. The layout between the middle and third door was the mirror image of that between the first and middle door. BTW does anyone know if the underground platforms are being constructed to accommodate a 6 or 8 car configuration in the future? I have ridden on the driverless Lyon metro with either 3 or 4 car trains (can't remember exactly) but the photo I took on the train shows that the platforms had been built to accommodate much longer trains but were currently blocked off to suit the length of the shorter trains.
3 car sets on such an important piece of infrastructure makes no sense. It would be better to have gone down the path of at least the six car units. The artist impression of the 3 car set showed only 1 pantograph to supply power to the train - if if is damaged, the train is toast. Also, many years ago, we had 2 car silver sets running around and it was realised that if the one compressor it had failed, the train died. This looks like a disaster waiting to happen. 6 or 8 cars with multiple pantographs and more than one compressor is a minimum needed.
The trains look a little bit like the Siemens trains in Melbourne but the interiors look more like a suburban train which I prefer.
TBH I like the look of these trains better than the trains on the Northwest Metro line.
Also have any viaducts or above ground sections of the Western Sydney Airport line been built yet?
According to Sydney Metro Western Sydney Airport Project construction update newsletter: April 2024, Sydney Metro services will begin "When Western Sydney International Airport opens for passenger services". And according to the airport website, "Western Sydney International will be a world-class smart airport, built to service 10 million passengers a year from the day we open in 2026."
the current airportlink is already been a busy rail hub running from macarthur to the city & city to Macarthur. & also to revesby. which was always a convenient line of those commuters heading to the airport including during morning & afternoon peaks. their the most busiest routes there. while the new metro service for the western Sydney airport will eventually be a busiest hub too. that is it will be driverless train instead of a driver driving it. one of the first in our state for the new airport. these trains will offer passengers much safer boarding with the new automated gates that allows them to board the train without falling down the gap. because like conventional suburban services. they are pretty much a normal passenger platforms where this no safe guards for passengers but instead they have yellow line. this new type of rail transport is part of the nsw government project to transform the aeroptropolis into a busy working hub. to transport passengers to the new airport. because it will eventually create new residential areas that's combined together for residents to live around the area & make it more a living hub. it's the only first in a century that we get these new automated driven trains in Sydney. they 'll be more being built coming in the future linking north Burwood & Parramatta to the city.
Just as well these trains are being used by people who fly with no luggage.
So long as there's enough room for airport baggage where you sit.
Some of the facing seats will have tables between them for families.
The fact that there’s no common standard for electrification or train width for all Metro lines is a recipe for future chaos (see Light Rail)
25Kv AC is THE standard for modern electric railways. It has numerous advantages, including being much cheaper to build and run (e.e. needs far less transformers along a route to feed power into it, lighter overhead lines, etc.) It is even more the 'go to' system for long distance HSR.
The current metro probably had to stay with 1500v DC (still a quite functional system) because it mixes so close with existing services (at Epping and Chatswood, and a 1500v DC power supply already existed between them)
The WSA Metro and West Metro don't mix like that, so it's a no-brainer to go 25Kv AC, much like the more recently electrified rail systems in Perth, Brisbane and Adelaide.
There is some talk of the WSA Metro having a wider gauge (loading, not rail gauge). But I've also heard Metro honchos say they can all run on each others tracks (which suggests it might not be at platform level where one is fatter).
One thing about metros though. They are usually (but not always) designed to operate as quite separate, not interconnected lines. That facilitates independent operations, so a problem on one doesn't affect another. Most metro lines are built years apart and use different generations of rolling stock, and need upgrades at different times. Having them separate facilitates that better.
Sydney Trains is a world class system, but one of its weaknesses is strong inter-connection between lines. That means breakdowns in one part can easily knock large parts out of service. The old Clearways Project was designed to minimise that, but it's not an easy task. Separate lines lessens chaos.
@tacitdionysus3220 1500 dc is pretty common among metro systems and for short lines like this one 1500 dc is adequate and it means issues around rolling stock not being transferable isn't there and it allows for future connections. Defending the decision of the 2500 ac is more post rationalisation than an actual justification. Even the the sydney metro west will have a different loading gauge and won't be transferable either. You should watch rm transits video on it
@@mathewferstl7042
I very much value RMs clips. He has an incredible ability to summarise a complex system in under an hour. However, that doesn't mean he always has all the relevant information to hand, or always has unchallengeable views
The relevant Sydney Trains Plan indicates:
"Spacing of traction substations varies between one every 4 kilometres in high load areas, to one every 15 kilometres for outer suburban rail passenger transport.
Substation spacing is a complex issue which must consider variables such as electrical loads, gradients, OHW types, energy losses, voltage drop, rail to earth voltage, and electrolysis."
25Kv AC needs only about one fifth the number of power supply inputs as 1500v DC. Metro systems are very frequent and that will affect the supply they need
For example, last reference I saw about the Sydenham to Bankstown metro conversion is it will have five for a distance of about 12 km.
That would mean the 23 km St Marys to Bradfield Metro might need many more if it was 1500vDC. That distance will increase by 2 to 3 times with extensions to Schofields and MacArthur. It also has lighter construction due to the high voltage needing less current to deliver the same power. (Ohms Law and all that). Using 25v AC is usually the cheapest proposition with current technology
Metro lines are predominantly built separate from each other, making them more resilient than highly inter-connected systems like Sydney Trains, where a problem in one location can affect numerous lines.
Separate metro lines can and should be designed to match the anticipated needs of those lines (e.g. train length), not use a 'one size fits all' such as on highly inter-connected systems. The cost advantage of the former can be significant.
The M1 is 1500v DC because of its intimate closeness to existing Sydney Trains lines. The West Metro and WSI Metro are not, and can be built as 25v AC with significant savings. Rail engineers are more likely to be motivated by cost than choosing 25Kv AC on a whim.
Long distance HSR almost virtually requires 25Kv AC. So at some stage, if you are a fan of HSR, you need to consider how that will best interact with cities like Sydney and Melbourne that still retain their 1920s 1500v DC systems.
I'm yet to be convinced about the 'wider loading gauge' issue on the WSI line, because I've heard Metro people comment that stock could run on any line if wanted. Loading gauge is complex - you can have a train that is wider in places to facilitate greater passenger space but still be the same width at platform level. It could also be simply that it is a 'wide' model by Siemens production standards, but normal by Sydney standards. Not saying that's what it is; but they are possibilities.
Can I ask where this information was obtained from?
I thought they were gonna be the same as the ones on the Tallawong to Chatswood
i wonder if there will be a surcharge for the airport stations.
I’d say there would be yes.
@@sydneytrainsvlogs thanks, thats a shame.
This is in New South Wales and not like the new one for Perth.Airport !!!
2x2 seating is a disaster for any airport train. The only saving grace would be if the trains have significant luggage storage areas or racks in each car.
Background music is a bit creepy
Great vid. It highlights major planning issues in my mind. 1. Parallel seating design. An airport without curfew is attractive to international flights. International flights to Australia = 20kg minimum baggage per passenger. Who is going to lift 20kg to a luggage rack (even if they exist). Parallel seating allows for everyone to place their bag in front of them, rather than block off 2 seats, or disabled areas. 2. Voltage. Why would any planner deliberately build a new metro at a different operating voltage than the existing metro, meaning they will always require a change of train. 3. Connections. It seems to me that the metro should be connecting the spokes of our heavy rail from T8 campbeltown, through T5 leppington, T5 St Mary’s and onto T1 Schofields, and through the existing M1 to Tallawong, T9 Epping, T1 Chatswood and city and Bankstown. A separate very high speed maglev line could connect Western Sydney International directly to Mascot and the city, allowing WSI to operate almost as another terminal of SYD. Think Big and do it properly. Please.
Last school holiday, I flew into Sydney having 2 x 23kg luguages. Because my airline allowed a maximum of 23 kg.
I agree with this advantage of longitudinal seating. Also given the short journey.
I definitely prefer the 2 x 2 seating.
❤ please try this one is George Washington
why does the exterior looks like Singapore's upcoming train for the Jurong region line 🤣
Probably the same train
@@harrygroundwater2590 its not trust me
I was going to go to vivid right now but the rain is making me think no, I’m now going all the way back to Wollongong and it’s disgusting weather
Yeah i was going to go last night or tonight but it’s still wet and yucky weather unfortunately.
Hopefully next year will be dry during Vivid.
@@sydneytrainsvlogs I agree with you, I went 2 years ago and it was lovely! No rain and no huge crowds on Circular Quay platform 2, but I am sad I couldn’t make it
Looks like Melbourne trains … The seating layout looks more like an AirPort Express rather than a people mover metro… 3 carriage, probably good to start with but hopefully it’s extendable in the future once patronage picks up.
Look wider than the toy Metro trains currently in use. Is this correct?
WHY would anybody want to travel from the Sydney CBD, Eastern, Southern and Norhtern suburbs. . . . . . . all the way to St Mary's to take a train to the AIRPORT? No wonder they are only going to be THREE CAR TRAINS! he line is a waste of money. Why not a more direct line from the Sydney CBD to that airport?
Sydney Metro West will likely be extended to St Marys in the future, and in the meantime there isn't much development in that area anyway and the airport won't have heaps of flights.
Now I gotta get used to sitting forward on a metro train
Oh my god the thumbnail looks so cool 😎😎😎😎😎😎
Let’s Make this metro train appear irl!
when is the next para light rail series
The train does look slick.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for watching and for your support! 😊😊😊
This is a great video Phil
Great vid
I see the new independent west metro is going to be 25kv instead of the standard 1500v DC
I think you mean 1500v DC. But yes 25KV AC is the new line
@@SYDTrainsFilms yep corrected cheers
Why they didn't do an artist impression with luggage for an airport line is beyond me...
Any comparison on performance versus the other metro?
Siemens Inspiro!
The lack of interoperability will surely kick us in the butt decades from now.
Hi I didn't mind your video it's okay accept the background music, why not a bit of classic music or 1950s music like Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin what's wrong with you bed taste in music;)
Is it just me? Given it only joins up with the rest of the suburban network at St Mary’s, this airport will be an Uber/Taxi hub for the foreseeable future. I think a 1 car set/tram would be more than adequate. No one will use it unless you live around the said area.
Ello first comment i love ur vids Very good vid btw. also please pin Btw i was the first viewer.
How do you watch a 6min video in 3minutes
@@SydneytrainEnjoyer2263 i have 1.5x mode on i watched 5.25minutes but i finished the vid now
Sorry but the prize of a pack of chewing gum has been claimed.
They look a bit better then butt ugly other metro trains