I used to think this guy was intelligent. Now I am convinced he will perform a scriptural word contortion just to try and be right. Thank you for posting that verse. That is my authority.....not any man.
Apparently you never paid attention to what the word "propitiation" actually means… It means appeased or satisfied...Jesus appeased God's wrath against humanity for the punishment of sin. Whole world is referring to everybody without distinction, everybody out of every tribe, tongue, and nation, not everyone without exception...If Whole world means everybody whoever lived than everybody whoever lived would be in heaven. If God sends 1 sinner to Hell after the Bibles claims God is satisfied by what his Son did to cover the sin debt he demands against humanity then he apparently isn't satisfied or appeased anymore. And if thats your belief then James White is absolutely correct,you believe Jesus only made humanity savable but in reality his death only provided potential atonement and not an actual atonement, thats as heretical as it gets.
The philosophy that God is a capricious god who only loves select people and only died for them is a false gospel and another Jesus; another gospel, and another Spirit. 1 John 2:2 all by itself denies limited atonement; and the false philosophy of Augustinian Gnostic influenced Calvinism.
These Calvinists really accuse God of being unrighteousness. The will of God is stated clearly; He is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. They imply that the sovereignty of God overrides His justice. Furthermore they speak of the Calvary sacrifice as being quantitative ie. as being available only for the “chosen” whereas the sacrifice in essence was not quantitative but qualitative, that is it was perfect. Thus we read in Hebrews that He is able to save to the uttermost all who come unto God by Him. If God is not willing for any to perish but that all should come to repentance, how is it that some end up in hell? Simply because God does not override human will. This is the condemnation that men CHOOSE darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. (John 3:19) How it grieves me that men downgrade God’s love and righteousness simply to twist things to fit their Calvinistic doctrine.
Ask yourself this, if god is willing that no man should be lost and go to hell, disarm still go to hell, did not Jesus talk more about hell than he talked about. If God is willing that none Parish, then none would parish right, but we know those do perish only those chosen by God go on to leave eternal life with him
Who in their right mind would choose to burn in hell forever, there are several passages in the New Testament where it says God chooses do you just overlook those. Also did Paul choose Jesus or did Jesus choose Paul, did Jesus choose the apostles or did the apostles just decide to follow Jesus all the on their own?
This is a wildly stupid answer. Jesus died so that the father would accept his death as the propitiation of all sins for all time. And he was 100% effective in that. People get the benefit of God’s grace, but God decided to wipe away the sins for his own judgment. That forgiveness doesn’t automatically “save” people, we still have to do what Jesus says, repent and have faith. If we do God will grant us eternal life. If we do not he won’t and we’ll take our own eternal death that we’ve chosen to keep.
This says it all! He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2). John's language here is unmistakable. Jesus died for the sins of John's audience (undoubtedly believers in Christ) as well as for those of the entire world.
True context of what John is saying (and has been) is Jesus not only died for Jews, but for Gentiles, every tribe, tongue and nation (world) Book of acts shows how the early Jewish church was amazed God was now pouring his spirit out on Gentiles. Not every single person in the world.
@@FearNot777 contextually the book of 1 John is written to Christians (1 Jn 1:3-4) specifically, John’s spiritual children in the faith (1 Jn 2:1). The words Jew or Gentile don’t even occur in 1 John, not even once. Which is why you have import scenes from Acts onto 1 John, which is classic eisegesis. Nation is ethnos; world is kosmos. They are two completely separate words in both Greek and English. Stop conflating them to fit your presuppositions. Finally, and most importantly, your argument is refuted by Holy Scripture as 1 John 2:2 is not the only verse of Scripture dealing with this issue: 1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJV) 10For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of **ALL MEN,** especially of those who believe. [Note: Christ is the savior of **ALL MEN** not just believers.] 2 Peter 2:1 (NKJV) 1But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who **BOUGHT THEM**, and bring on themselves swift destruction. [Note: how can they be purchased if Christ never died for them?] 1 Timothy 2:4-6 (NKJV) 4who desires **ALL MEN** to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a **RANSOM FOR ALL,** to be testified in due time, [Note: this agrees with 2 Pet 2:1 that Christ purchased all men.]
@@Sentinel517 Scripture interprets scripture. When Jesus entered jerusalem, the Pharisees said - "So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him"john 12:19 You can see here clearly that the "whole world" here didn't mean every single human being on the planet as it was just those in jerusalem. The context of 1 John still stands, as he didn't need to mention "jew & gentile" as the church was still in its early stages, and the early jewish Christians were amazed that the mystery of God (which he revealed to be the gospel) extended to non Jews ie the whole world. Yes, God desires all men to be saved, that is what is known to be his revealed will, but his hidden will is that only some will be saved, hence why Jesus said "many are called, few are chosen" Matt 22 Also my friend, what I have found in these debates, no one deals/discusses with all those verses in scripture re election. They will ALWAYS quote the very verses you just have (when I used to oppose this clear doctrine of scripture, I too would quote the "freewill" verses as well) I would like to hear your exegesis on these verses - Here are a few "44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day" John 6:44 "65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” John 6:6 "When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed." Acts 13:48 "For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” Romans 9:15 "Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." Romans 9:18
@@FearNot777 Except that is not what it says. Why can't you just let the scripture speak for itself without adding to it. The true context is actually saying that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the entire world. Let me ask, if Christ didn't die for everyone then how do you know he died for you?
The problem here is Hebrews says that those for whom he died for, he lives to make intercession for! You are splitting up his high priestly work which the scriptures teach is co-extensive.
1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJV) 10For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of **ALL MEN,** especially of those who believe. [Note: Christ is the savior of **ALL MEN** not just believers.] 1 John 2:2 (NKJV) 2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and **NOT FOR OURS ONLY** but also for **THE WHOLE WORLD.** [Note: John agrees with Paul that Christ died for believers AND the whole world.] 2 Peter 2:1 (NKJV) 1But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who **BOUGHT THEM**, and bring on themselves swift destruction. [Note: how can they be purchased if Christ never died for them?]
Romans 5:18 - Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. In Romans 5, Paul makes it very clear that every person has fallen, but in verse 18 the "all" of the fallen is the same as the "all" justfied. How do you square that with your interpretation of "all"? Even more, Romans 5:15 - But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Says that the gift of Christ is at least as large in application as the trespass, which we all agree must include every person
Verse 19 says many however the word all has its limitations Anyway great joy in heaven Over sinners who repent It's not for us to limit God's Salvation as we don't know Who will be chosen!
To say “whole world” means only the elect is simply illogical it MUST mean all of mankind Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God BEFORE YOU. Jesus says the Pharisees will enter into the kingdom of God even though they did not believe implying that those who are in hell will be punished according to what they have done on earth an then will eventually be allowed into the kingdom of God.
2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” Not willing that ANY should perish. That, in one beautiful verse, DESTROYS the false idea of predestination.
2Pet 3:9: ⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering TO US-WARD, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever shall believe him will not perish, but have everlasting life. If he only died for the chosen ones, it would have read for the chosen, not the world. Remember, God doesn't show favoritism, and by teying to justify that it's only chosen ones, then you're making him to be a liar. And we know God can never lie.
Matt. 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.” Kinda doesn’t gel with White’s comment “Jesus does not fail to save exactly who He intends to save.” So, He desires to save them, but doesn’t ‘intend’ to? Calvinists make you mutilate scripture to fit their man-made theology.
Nope. You misinterpret the text. First, in that text, there is no mention of who Christ died for, or even the topic of atonement. CONTEXT IS KEY. In that context, Jesus is accusing the leaders in Jerusalem of hindering the people from gathering to hear his message. No referent to salvation or the work of the cross! Prove it! Also, you interpret this to contradict Daniel which says what God Wills CAN'T BE THWARTED!
Exactly… Jesus must of had fake tears. Knowing that they could of only accepted him, if he had made them… So basically it’s his fault that they rejected him, according to calvinism. He weeped because they made the choice to reject because ot free will
For the ones that say yes to Jesus, by obeying what he established and ordained with His Apostles. Jesus established with His Apostles baptism, confession and Eucharist. Jonh 6 53:54. Then Jesus said unto them verly, verly I say unto you except you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood ye have no life in you. 54 whose eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day . St Paul also said if we drink from the cup in an anwordly manner we will condemme our soul. Means to recive Jesus in Eucharist we must prepare first by getting rid of sin. That is why Jesus ordained the sacrament of confession with His Apostles. This pastors that took a bible from catholic church and made thousands of counterfeit denominations, are the wolves in sheep clothing.
Whether you're 5 points or no points.. idk what the purpose of this question is. Jesus' sacrifice could save every single soul. It was perfect. The debate should simply be about Gods sovereign choice vs mans free will.
Yes there's a 100 verses that prove God does everything in the Salvation process including choosing those who will be saved from the foundation of the world etc. But you cannot ignore the verses maybe 20 that say man must RECEIVE the gift, must ACCEPT the gift. Why do some Cults do the same thing...., they like these verses yet they ignore the others. Very dangerous practice and reformed theology skirts along the sidelines of that danger.
The problem with your accusation is this: There is no contradiction between God saving some and humans calling all to come and repent! Show the logical contradiction please. Jesus called out to repent did he not? Yet the scripture says Jesus knew who didn't believe! Clear now?
@Soonerking The problem with your lack of comprehension is that because He preaches to all men, God means for all men to come to repentance, not just a select few. Of course, many will harden their hearts, but those that humble themselves before the Lord are considered to repent toward Him
@@SugoiEnglish1 Your response is clear, but it isn't true. Of course Jesus knew who would or would not accept, but He didn't CHOOSE who would or wouldn't. HUGE difference.
He only died for the israelites, he never said to preach to the heathen but to the lost sheep of Israel (aka the gentiles). White people isn't one of the sheep.
Itvis they false premise, that is not evident in all of Scripture that God must make a person able to accept the Gospel. It is their misinterpreting of Romans 9 that leads to this false doctrine.
Wicked Calvinist refuse to believe that you can have a relationship with Jesus. You cannot have any relationship without choice. And it’s a new doctrine as everyone knows
You can have a relationship with Jesus? Calvinism don’t teach that!! What the bible teaches is that we are born in sin and are dead and cannot chose! It’s God who makes us alive!! It’s God who chooses!! So I encourage you to read Gods word ..
@gypsyboy9039 Small problem. What about the chosen who choose regular grade, econo, counted least salvation, instead of blessed sainthood? By Revelation, only those who choose to keep the commandments of God, recieve blessed sainthood. R. 14:12, 22:14. By a man made tradition, salvation. By worship in truth, blessed sainthood. I love rocket science.
The doctrine is as new as the OT. It is Arminianism, based on secular humanism, that is only 500 years old. Unless you wish to count the Judaizers, Pharisees, and Sadducees. LOL.
He died for ALL (1 Tim. 2:6). He died for ALL MEN (Rom. 5:18; 1 Tim. 4:10). He died for US ALL, for ALL OF US (Isa. 53:6). He died for the UNGODLY (Rom. 5:6). He died for CHRIST-DENIERS (2 Peter 2:1). He died for SINNERS (Rom. 5:8). He died for EVERY MAN (Heb. 2:9). He died for MANY (Matthew 20:28). He died for the WORLD (John 6:33,51; John 1:29 and John 3:16). He died for the WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2). He died for the WHOLE NATION of Israel (John 11:50-51). He died for the CHURCH (Eph. 5:25). He died for His SHEEP (John 10:11). He died for ME (Gal. 2:20).
You misinterpret most of those verses. You are also starting at the wrong question. The first thing you need to ask is, what did Jesus accomplish on the cross by His death? Then go back and ask yourself did he accomplish it for each and every person? You will see that that can't be true.
JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE CALLED FREE WILL. YOU CAN CHOOSE LIFE(JESUS) OR YOU CAN CHOOSE DEATH(HELL AND THE LAKE OF FIRE)
Incorrect. You don't get to choose God. He chooses you. You are saved by grace alone lest you should boast of your works. God gives you saving grace to repent, believe through FAITH and endure to the end. You have no choice at all. Only the ones who hear God's call, the chosen ones, are saved. Romans: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified".
@@JohnSmith-zo6ir You should learn God's word. I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 3Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. Jesus died for whosoever will come. Of He knew before the foundation of the world who would receive him and who would not. I hope you don't believe that satanic garbage that only certain people can be saved. The devil will use that to bring many to hell by saying YOU CAN'T BE SAVED BECAUSE GOD DIDN'T CHOOSE YOU.
Who says whole world means each and every person? If it did, then you have a problem because Jesus in his high priestly prayer explicitly says, I do not pray for the world, but for all those who you have given me, and all who will believe in me through their word...Why interpret a text in such a way to make it contradict Hebrews where Jesus sacrificed for those whom he lives to make intercession for? If Jesus died for each and every person, then he would be living and making intercession for each and every person! Meaning no one goes to hell! Are you a universalist? You are making the word of God contradictory. Please study more.
@@SugoiEnglish1 Has it occurred to you that man may not understand the mind of God? He knew from the foundation of the world who would receive Jesus and who would not. That's why Jesus would not commit to certain people as he said in John. because he knows the heart of man. GOD CALLED ALL MANKIND TO TO BE SAVED. New Living Translation The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! English Standard Version The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Berean Standard Bible The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! Berean Literal Bible On the next day, he sees Jesus coming to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God, the One taking away the sin of the world. King James Bible The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. New King James Version The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! New American Standard Bible The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
God gave man free will to choose between good and evil. He did not give free will for salvation. You don't get to choose Christ. He chooses you. The Bible tell us He chooses us before the beginning of time and then He calls us and draws us near. We are saved by Gods grace through faith and He provides sufficient grace for repentance and belief. Only Christ can save us lest we boast through works. So no, you do not have free will when it comes to salvation. It is predestined.
If many (the most) aren't elected or predestined, then what is the purpose of the Great White Throne? What faith has to do in salvation? What does sin have to do in condemnation? Calvinism is so dangerous. Be careful, read the Word. Be a Berean.
What does it say in CONTEXT? I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- 2 for kings and all those in authority...He is talking about those in authority whom many viewed as their oppressors! These does NOT TEACH Jesus removed expiated atoned for each and every person who ever lived or will live. Jesus himself said, I LAY DOWN MY LIFE FOR THE SHEEP...
And he calls himself a "Doctor" from an UN accredited University. People read the Holy Scripture for YOURSELVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE is not willing that ANY should perish , but that ALL should be Saved!! ALL means ALL and thats ALL , ALL means.
But people do end up in hell. Read the end of revelation. Read the parable of the rich man and lazarus. There is a assumption here that people end up in hell and therefore we must not assume that all will be saved. Also consider the voice of the martyrs who died for the faith. Whose faith constantly rings out how long will this sin go unpunished if those who commit such acts were all saved how disingenuous would that be
Read the first verse of 2 Peter to find out who Peter is talking to and about. He’s not talking about everyone in the World! He’s talking to and about those that have obtained the Same faith He has. That God is not Willing that any of THEM Perish and that all of THEM be Saved. Read the beginning of the Book of 2 Peter in the context it is written, then you will understand the Truth of 2 Peter 3:9.
Ezekiel 18:19-23 King James Version (KJV)The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him
What the calvinist doesn't understand is the word BOTH. Yes God initiates and does the entire process and we do nothing for salvation. But we must receive the gift. We must accept the free gift of eternal life. It's BOTH my friends.
What the person who denies the Fall doesn't understand is that humans will not love God while in the flesh or being a natural person. John 3:3 is clear.
Psalm 2 disproves limited atonement, as does the Virginia birth. Jesus was born to humanity and is the high priest of all humanity. Not only that, he is also the Messiah, the king of the earth. He has the authority to judge all. The condemnation that came into the world was that men did not believe because they loved darkness. How can judgment pass upon those to whom belief was withheld? The atonement has to be available to all men for God to be able to judge all based on whether or not they trusted God.
Small problem. The grace of Christianity was declared AFTER grace on the world was. The forgiveness of God is bigger than Christianity, by the word of the one called the truth. Mt. 12:31-32 Mk. 3:28 Lk. 12:10 Forgiveness, is the avenue to salvation, by a sufficient sacrifice. We can talk about the big hole in Calvinism later.
You aren’t recognizing the distinction between God’s common or general Grace that is given to mankind, and His salvific Grace shown to His children. Also the Matthew reference doesn’t say anything about that. He’s talking about the forgiveness of sins
@MattBean-om3qq This is the grace declared on the whole world, long before the word was uttered by the apostles concerning Christianity. Kingdom being hierarchy, there are counted least, and saints. The vast majority of professing Christianity, never considers after salvation, apparently for fear, loving God is considered seeking justification by law?
Small problem. God's grace, like God Himself, is outside time, that is, before the foundation of the world. You can easily find the verses on that. I do not understand what you are attempting to say with your obsession as to when it was declared*. Not understanding the eternality of God and thus His attributes declares a big hole in one's theology. *Your knowing full well that the declaration of God about anything is part of His grace (or wrath, depending on where one is standing in relationship to God). LOL.
when john wrote what he wrote he had NO intention that it would result in a theological point to be debated by "reformers" and theologians. this does not help people get saved. because we can dissect this issue at a conference to justify our divisions from other members of the body of Christ and establish our own sense of academic prowess and pride of doctrine does not mean we are doing the will of God with this text. I know it is argued that this is jealousy for the glory of God, but how does the division this kind of preaching engenders Glorify God?
He died for all. For all to have the opportunity to choose eternal life. That He knew that not all would choose is that and that He knew some would openly oppose that, is Him Being God. Never confuse divine foreknowledge ( The power to know all possible outcomes of any given choice) with things being predestined to be. Divining what a person will do, based on all knowledge of them isn't that hard to do, some people can do that, AI certianly can, why not God ?? To say that God knowing what we will do because He knows us better than we know ourselves is "determanislism" is denying His Omniscience.
@@MattBean-om3qqWasted ? Never ! The gospel is clear. Jesus was given His sheep, those who follow Him and hear His voice. Those which di not hear His voice and do not follow Him he called goats. Jesus also said that the sheep shall be separated from tbe goats. Those that follow the world are goats.Those who follow Jesus do not follow the world. His blood was required to save His sheep. Those who would not follow Him such as the Scripes and Pharisees, He said leave them alone.It is contrary to the gospel to say Jesus shed His blood for everyone.
He died for ALL, much like a parent that sacrifices for all His children, even the ones that he knows will reject his love. Unconditional love is just that.@@MattBean-om3qq
The following verses proves that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the entire world (All of humanity, both the believer and non-believer). It would not make sense for the verse in John 3:16 to say God so loved 'the world', if this only meant believers because if you look at how the phrase 'the world' is referenced in the other verses it is referring specifically to the non-believers. John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. John 17:14-16 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He called Judas a friend to the very end. He gave Judas a free will just as all of us however, HE knew his future since God sees outside of time and space.
If we are going base our doctrine on a statement that rests on Gods ability to save effectually and not anything that man does. Then surely God has failed saving man from sin since man still sins. Here's some sarchasm: man somehow got so powerful to bend Gods saving power and still sin even though man has been saved. This is stupid. Calvinism is stupid. 🤷♂️
JESUS CHRIST is the Spiritual SAVIOUR of the World from Temporal spirits of the Flesh to Eternal Good Spirits in Christ of the LORD GODFATHER in Christ in HEAVEN.the LORD GODFATHER in Christ is SPIRIT and GOOD SPIRIT and as HIS GOOD SPIRITS LIVES Everlastingly so also Your Good Spirits in Christ Lives Continually Everlastingly.
For God so loved the WORLD. That means every man, woman and child who has ever lived. If it didn’t mean that, God would not have said “world”. Whosoever. Means who ever believes. He doesn’t regenerate who He wants, and then they believe. Eph 1:13-14 says that the one who believes THEN receives the Holy Spirit. God wishes that NONE would perish! The cerebral blinders are so thick for some - blinded by deceit and Satan himself.
What does "world" mean in this verse? John 3:16 is the most misunderstood verse in all of the Bible. I think the best brief exegesis of this verse is by a humble Tennessee pastor, viz: ruclips.net/video/BDxRss_v78A/видео.html He that hath ears let Him hear.
Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV)22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
@@JESUS_Saves3747 yes, to judge you, you who call themselves christian. Jesus will be coming again just to judge you. Didn't you understand what the verse refer to?
James misses the big picture, that being, the new covenant in Jesus' blood. I am no Greek expert, but as I understand it: Covenant means a set agreement, with terms, between 2 parties. So this means 2 things. Firstly, we have a responsibility within this covenant. Secondly, because of this God has NOT failed when people reject him. We have to enter into the agreement God has set up. If we don't, we don't get the reward he has promised to those who do. He reconciled the world to himself through his body on the cross. He has not failed. Simple. Plus the obvious: Limited atonement aint in the N/T. It just isn't. Whereas the teaching that Jesus died for all, everyone, and the world is everywhere. Even many calvinst's hold to tuip rather than tulip (another good biblical phrase from calvinist's) choosing to drop L/A. That is why James white's arguement is all philosophy rather than good biblical exegesis.
Limited atonement is easily provable through scripture and Bible logic. Care to hear it? Just let me know, although James White does a really good job at explaining it, Not only does the proof I am talking about deal with limited atonement, but it is one of four proofs that A/P/T is unbiblical, illogical, and a vain philosophy based on secular humanism.
@@Gablesman888 Limited atonement is correct, however if your proof is based on Penal Substitution it is wrongly oriented. The Penal Substitution model is incorrect.
He saves all who choose to come to Him. It's not complicated; "Therefore as by the offense of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [Christ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." -- From Roman's chapter 5, KJV There it is, unless you want to accuse Paul of not knowing what he was talking about. And of course there is John 3:16; "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believerh in him should not perish..." (emphasis mine) It's simple enough that even we little people can understand it. And it's beautiful! And it's logical. It makes sense!
@@MattBean-om3qq Exactly, Christ laid it down for all. See Revelation 22:I7 All who thirsts let them come and drink from the fountain of life freely. I figured In 2 Peter 3:9 Was self explanatory, f Christ doesn't want anyone to perish, He must of die for everyone. Don't just the elect aka first fruits. I Cor I5:20 Matthew 27:52
@@MattBean-om3qq Perish, Their Immortal body cast into the furnace of fire. Not exist any longer. Second death. Rev 20:I4 2I:8 Many will go into perdition.
@@plainwhitepaper3898 not sure how you get annihilation from that singular word perish. It’s apollumi (ἀπολέσθαι) in the Greek, and it’s used to express multiple different things in NT. For example, “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed (ἀπολοῦνται - apollumi).” Luke 5:37 In this verse, he describes that the wine skin is “destroyed” as in it no longer has any use, that it’s useless for any purpose etc. he doesn’t express God’s divine judgment against a wineskin that then ceases to exist from the material and spiritual world lol.
Because God is omniscient, and outside of time, He knows exactly who will choose (or if you like, has chosen) to accept the free gift of salvation. This doesn’t mean that certain people will be saved, and other people are barred from being saved. It means that those who will choose to not accept salvation are already known to God because all of time is already known by God. Before he made me, he knew all of the choices that I would make in my life, and he knew that one of those choices was going to be made in 1993, when I was going to accept him as my Lord and Savior. He also knows everyone who is going to choose to not make that acceptance. Now this truth is not Calvinism, because Calvinism proposes that we don’t have to go into all the world and preach the gospel, but the fact is that we don’t know all of the individuals that God knows, those who will be saved, and God has told us to go out and evangelize the world with the Gospel. The evangelizing of the world is also one of the factors that God knew before the beginning, and therefore that evangelizing is a key factor in why those who accept salvation were known to God at that time.
When A/P/Ts speak of making themselves saveable (making a choice, conjuring up faith, making a decision, etc) they are following original Roman Catholic doctrine about being "inherently righteous" in order to be saved. The hysterical part of that is that the A/P/Ts go a step further by not requiring the assistance of a priest. Thus, the A/P/T schema places the would be believer standing with both feet firmly planted in mid-air. A real hat trick. LOL.
What happened after Jesus gave his life? The world is exactly the same and probably worse off. After the Christian church was formed, virtually every war involving Christians had a religious origin. For example, the 30 Years War (1618) waged Catholic Christians against Protestant Christians and was the bloodiest war in history until WWII. The Christians in that war fought to determine who interpreted the Bible correctly. 8 million people died, and >50% of all Germans. You could even say, "Because of Jesus, people sinned even more."
I’d be careful with you comments blaming Jesus for sin. When he died for sin. Man’s heart is evil and that the reason. My friend once mocked God about killing his son and called him evil. He unfortunately has brain damage now from being run over by my other friend after a fight. Both smoke heroine. He is now doing 15 years. God protects us and provides for us. He really can just take his hand off and just let people live how they wants and hand them over to real darkness, that they chose to love. I plead with you, do not mock God. He loves you and has died for you. If you want to totally reject him and mock him, your on your own and Satan will sweep you into hell and ruin your whole life. My friend is now brain dead because he loved Satan and his tricks and hated God.
was Judas not chosen you are deceived Mr white Jesus chose to die for everyone God is no respect of person we were all created in the image God.hell was created for the devil and his angels men go there when they choose to reject the Lord and his gift of salvation Jesus said he came to his own and his own received him not it's a choice it's whosoever believes.scriptures are clear that Jesus died for all everyone it's clear in the old and new testament humble yourself and accept the truth of scripture and stop calling God a liar
Judas was chosen but he wasn’t chosen for salvation he was chosen to do the job that he was created for. Just like God chose pharaoh and the time of Moses. He is not calling God a liar at all God is sovereign over his creation and if you can’t except that you might be lost yourself
Jesus spoke often of His sheep, those who the Father gave Him. Salvation only comes by grace, grace is not given to all. I personally do not believe in the predestination doctrine, I believe that on the other hand God knew in the beginning who would be obedient and therefore He knew His sheep, those who would hear His voice. History tells us that most do not hear His voice. Jesus said that He lost none of His sheep. Most did not hear His voice even in His time in the flesh. Jeremiah 29:13 " And when you seek Me with all of your heart, I will be found by you declares The Lord.
Proverbs 8 (KJV) 8 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice? 2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths. 3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors. 4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man. 5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart. 6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things. 7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them. 9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. 10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. 11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it. 12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions. 13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate. 14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength. 15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice. 16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth. 17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness. 19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver. 20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures. 22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. 32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. 33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord. 36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
He died to save all who will repent and believe the gospel. These are the elect chosen by God before the foundation of the World. The “all” is referring to both Jew and Gentile but not all people. Christianity is not Universalism! Remember God would be just to send us all to Eternal damnation but he is rich in mercy and gives grace and mercy to whom he chooses. Does this make him unjust? Not at all. It is amazing grace for a reason, because not one of us deserves it!!!🙏❤️.
How can one believe the Gospel, Christs death, burial, and resurrection for our sins, if one is not sure that it was for them? How could one believe Christ bore their sins and be saved if they don’t know if he did?
Believe what? That Christ died for their sins? How can they believe if they don’t know for sure that he did? Paul says in Romans how can someone believe if they have not heard. If Christ didn’t die for everyone then without personal revelation no one would be able to know for sure that he died for them. So are you saying that one needs extra biblical revelation to discern whether Christ died for them? Thankfully God has not left us in the dark on this matter Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the world as the Bible so plainly tells us. Scripture alone is sufficient for any man to know that Christ died for them because when God says in his word in the book of Hebrews that Christ “ tasted death for every man” God is not being deceptive but means exactly what he says in His Word.
This guy is making wrong assumptions and quoting the wrong scriptures. When the scriptures talk about "all" being saved, the context is used in two ways, namely; "all" of humanity and "all" of the chosen ones (the elect) who were predestined before the beginning of time. So, "all" of humanity is divided into "all" the elect and "all" of the non-elect. Clearly, not everyone will be saved, otherwise we would all go to heaven and there would be no hell, which we know is not true. Revelations talks about the Day of Judgement and those who did not believe are thrown into the Lake of Fire (hell). The chosen are called by Christ and those who hear will respond and believe through the grace that God gives them in His sufficiency. Romans 8:30 - "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified". So, only the chosen ones who God foreknew before the beginning of time will be saved. Only the chosen ones are called, justified and glorified.
There is so much wrong with what he says here. Let's just look at the verses James White points out and the fact that he is not understanding these particular scriptures. 0:30 he is ABLE to save. How can you skip such a critical word such as ABLE? 0:50 he has perfected those who are BEING SANCTIFIED. Those who ARE ALREADY SAVED !! How can he miss this ?He's not talking about the unsaved there, those who are being Sanctified are those who are saved. 1:40 of course he's making intercession because he wishes that all would come to repentance. He's Gathering the chicks as a hen but they were not willing etc. Besides, he wouldn't have to make intercession if these elect or chosen folks were already saved. Why make intercession LOL it's already done before the foundation of the world LOL.
Did Jesus die for the sin of everyone or just the chosen? Now certainly limited atonement can be biblically proven through Bible verse exegesis. But what if you could see that the Arminian/Provisionist atonement schema was impossible? I mean impossible like you cannot get there from here impossible? Let's use both Bible passages and Bible logic. First, you yourself most definitely believe in limited atonement. Otherwise, you would believe in universal atonement. And there are some Christians, however mixed up, who believe that everyone is saved. You are most likely a limited man or woman on this issue. But let's put this to the test. Pick your favorite OT lost person. I choose Ahab since we know so much about him. According to Jesus in the NT, where is Ahab right now and what is he doing? He is in Hell, experiencing forever the wrath of God against him, having died in his sins around 880 BC, and now paying for his sinfulness throughout eternity. So far, so good. A/Ps and Calvinists both in agreement. Now back to Jesus. If, say, Ahab is at this very moment experiencing the wrath of God forever and ever for his sins, then how could a just, righteous, and loving God force His wrath upon His Son on the cross 880 years later to pay for Ahab's sins when Ahab has been doing just that already for 880 years before Calvary? To believe that, we have the situation of Christ being crucified again, something really condemned in Hebrews 6. Here A/Ps love to see Jesus placed in theological double jeopardy as He suffers on the cross. Further, we also run afoul of Isaiah 53 wherein we have the depiction of the suffering servant (Jesus) seeing the travail of His soul and being satisfied. Not dissatisfied. Not worrying about Ahab still suffering for Ahab's sins despite what Jesus would attempt to do for him. And we don't have a truly angry Son of God wondering why the Father is making Him die in vain for someone in Hell forever anyway. Do you see the many problems here? In other words, Isaiah 53 is saying that Jesus is not some kind of masochist who just likes to suffer for sin; instead He suffers for the sins of a particular people, in this case, the elect. And only the elect. A limited (like A/Ps and Calvinists would all agree on) albeit large group of people. Jesus prays about this very thing in John 17 when he declines to pray for the world. And our Dear Lord is satisfied in His great work to save these elect people. The people given to Christ by the Father for salvation. Again, John 17. This one teaching from God's word destroys Arminian/Provisionism in one move since we see here from God's word that Christ did not die for everyone. He died for the elect. Have a problem with that? Talk to the judge. That will preach all day. Amen.
1 John 2:1-2 , 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10, 1 John 4:14, John 3:36, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 4:19, John 5:22-23, Jeremiah 29:11-13, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16. All those verses contradict your statement
@@Luke_IVI non contradiction.the Bible doesn't contradict itself. matthew 1:21 only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl. he is a jew right?. aren't the jews Israelites. matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for. romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites. Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation. and I plenty more. in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites hebrews 1:2 "by whom also he made the worldS "s" meaning plural. world means nation in greek. the nation of ppl are the Israelites. go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl. 1 John 4:10 is a precept to acts 5:29-31 it tells you who gets repentance. only the ones under the first covenant. not every nation was under the first covenant. hebrews 8: 7-10 "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law. psalms 147:19-20
@@Luke_IVI no contradiction. the Bible doesn't contradict itself. matthew 1:21 only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl. he is a jew right?. aren't the jews Israelites. matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for. romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites. Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation. "WORLD without end" and there is plenty more. in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites hebrews 1:2 "by whom also he made the worldsssss "s" meaning plural. world means nation in greek. the nation of ppl are the Israelites. go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl. 1 John 4:10 is a precept to acts 5:29-31 it tells you who gets repentance. only the ones under the first covenant. not every nation was under the first covenant. hebrews 8: 7-10 "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law. psalms 147:19-20
@@Luke_IVI no contradiction. the Bible doesn't contradict itself. matthew 1:21 only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl. he is a jew right?. aren't the jews Israelites? matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for. romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites. Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation. "WORLD!! without end" and I have plenty more. in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites hebrews 1:2 "by whom also he made the worldS "s" meaning plural. world means nation in greek. the nation of ppl are the Israelites. go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl. 1 John 4:10 is a precept to acts 5:29-31 it tells you who gets repentance. only the ones under the first covenant. not every nation was under the first covenant. hebrews 8: 7-10 "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah." the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law. psalms 147:19-20
The claim that Jesus died for other people’s sins is nonsensical. How does a minor Jewish preacher achieve such a thing? How exactly does it work? When he was put to death, he would have been terrified and regretting that he allowed himself to be put in that position. The Romans, for their part, would have made sure that he endured extreme pain and would ensure that his body stayed on cross until it rotted. It’s common knowledge that the local population stayed well away from the execution grounds. He was have been terrified and lonely. He would not be thinking of others.
@@michaelharris4101 He did not become deified until well after his death. His resurrection and deification were simply marketing ploys by early Christians to get more followers. This was common in that era. Even if, as you claim, Jesus was a deity his death did not save anyone. I have yet to hear how that would work.
Here’s something - If people didn’t have a choice in accepting or rejecting Him, He couldn’t send anybody to hell. In order for God to be justified in sending someone to hell, He has to have given them a choice. I can’t force my child to do wrong, and then punish her for it. Why is this such a difficult concept to understand for so many? 🤷♂️ Romans 1:20, KJV, “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” If God chose some and not all, those He didn’t choose would have an excuse, and could not be condemned to hell. If they CAN choose, of their own free will, THEN they would have no excuse. Sorry Calvinists, the Bible says your doctrine is false. 🤷♂️ Better get a clue!
If Jesus died for all, then Hell is empty. Actually, in Hezekiah 187:329 it says that Hell became a Chuck-e-Cheez. But today it is an empty parking lot.
@@Gablesman888 Anyone who agrees with Calvinism would agree with you. I do not. I agree with scripture “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.” - 1 Peter 2:1 God sends “strong delusion” to those who do not honestly go with His truth over all else like Paul did (Romans 3:4) And finally “And he (Jesus) is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2
A good number of atheists who set out to disprove Jesus and his claims come to Christ when they decide to investigate. I highly recommend you obtain the book ‘A for Christ’ by Lee Strobel. Lee set out to disprove the existence of Jesus after his wife’s conversion. He tells how he was confronted by the such a weight of evidence he too converted.
@@CSUnger Everything ever written about Jesus was from people who never claimed to have met him, and written decades after his purported death. Best you can say is maybe Jesus existed.
“[16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. [18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.” 2 Peter 1: 16 & 18 Thanks for playing
@@Gablesman888 that I exist is not in question, I pay taxes, I have an NI number, the question is did the Jesus of the Bible exist, and all I am stating is there is not one recorded account, sourced, verified and corroborated by any persons known to have existed by that same criteria that evidences he irrefutably, undeniably, indisputably, conclusively did so. You can believe all you are indoctrinated with, but you cannot evidence what you believe, if you had evidence as such you would not need to have belief. Wriggle like the indoctrinated snake you are, wriggle, lie and sneeze as much as you like, you cannot deny the truth of what I write.
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
I used to think this guy was intelligent. Now I am convinced he will perform a scriptural word contortion just to try and be right.
Thank you for posting that verse. That is my authority.....not any man.
Apparently you never paid attention to what the word "propitiation" actually means… It means appeased or satisfied...Jesus appeased God's wrath against humanity for the punishment of sin.
Whole world is referring to everybody without distinction, everybody out of every tribe, tongue, and nation, not everyone without exception...If Whole world means everybody whoever lived than everybody whoever lived would be in heaven.
If God sends 1 sinner to Hell after the Bibles claims God is satisfied by what his Son did to cover the sin debt he demands against humanity then he apparently isn't satisfied or appeased anymore.
And if thats your belief then James White is absolutely correct,you believe Jesus only made humanity savable but in reality his death only provided potential atonement and not an actual atonement, thats as heretical as it gets.
Does Christianity describe hell, if everyone is forgiven, is hell still required?
@@bashar700bd yes, because not everyone is forgiven
Define whole world
The philosophy that God is a capricious god who only loves select people and only died for them is a false gospel and another Jesus; another gospel, and another Spirit. 1 John 2:2 all by itself denies limited atonement; and the false philosophy of Augustinian Gnostic influenced Calvinism.
Great summary of spiritual truth in Christ. ☦️
Well stated. I agree! 😊
These Calvinists really accuse God of being unrighteousness. The will of God is stated clearly; He is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. They imply that the sovereignty of God overrides His justice. Furthermore they speak of the Calvary sacrifice as being quantitative ie. as being available only for the “chosen” whereas the sacrifice in essence was not quantitative but qualitative, that is it was perfect. Thus we read in Hebrews that He is able to save to the uttermost all who come unto God by Him. If God is not willing for any to perish but that all should come to repentance, how is it that some end up in hell? Simply because God does not override human will. This is the condemnation that men CHOOSE darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil. (John 3:19) How it grieves me that men downgrade God’s love and righteousness simply to twist things to fit their Calvinistic doctrine.
Romans 9:13-23
Ask yourself this, if god is willing that no man should be lost and go to hell, disarm still go to hell, did not Jesus talk more about hell than he talked about. If God is willing that none Parish, then none would parish right, but we know those do perish only those chosen by God go on to leave eternal life with him
@@merrillbartle4174 he wishes. Not all come. He knocks, not all open.
Who in their right mind would choose to burn in hell forever, there are several passages in the New Testament where it says God chooses do you just overlook those. Also did Paul choose Jesus or did Jesus choose Paul, did Jesus choose the apostles or did the apostles just decide to follow Jesus all the on their own?
@@badzs.if he knocks and no one answers then that makes Christ a failure !! Them that are his elect will come to Christ!!
I have received His Holy Spirit and as promised by Jesus have been brought to truth. You can not know truth without the Holy Spirit guiding you.
This is a wildly stupid answer. Jesus died so that the father would accept his death as the propitiation of all sins for all time. And he was 100% effective in that.
People get the benefit of God’s grace, but God decided to wipe away the sins for his own judgment. That forgiveness doesn’t automatically “save” people, we still have to do what Jesus says, repent and have faith. If we do God will grant us eternal life. If we do not he won’t and we’ll take our own eternal death that we’ve chosen to keep.
This says it all!
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2). John's language here is unmistakable. Jesus died for the sins of John's audience (undoubtedly believers in Christ) as well as for those of the entire world.
Amen!
True context of what John is saying (and has been) is Jesus not only died for Jews, but for Gentiles, every tribe, tongue and nation (world)
Book of acts shows how the early Jewish church was amazed God was now pouring his spirit out on Gentiles. Not every single person in the world.
@@FearNot777 contextually the book of 1 John is written to Christians (1 Jn 1:3-4) specifically, John’s spiritual children in the faith (1 Jn 2:1). The words Jew or Gentile don’t even occur in 1 John, not even once. Which is why you have import scenes from Acts onto 1 John, which is classic eisegesis. Nation is ethnos; world is kosmos. They are two completely separate words in both Greek and English. Stop conflating them to fit your presuppositions. Finally, and most importantly, your argument is refuted by Holy Scripture as 1 John 2:2 is not the only verse of Scripture dealing with this issue:
1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJV)
10For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of **ALL MEN,** especially of those who believe.
[Note: Christ is the savior of **ALL MEN** not just believers.]
2 Peter 2:1 (NKJV)
1But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who **BOUGHT THEM**, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
[Note: how can they be purchased if Christ never died for them?]
1 Timothy 2:4-6 (NKJV)
4who desires **ALL MEN** to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6who gave Himself a **RANSOM FOR ALL,** to be testified in due time,
[Note: this agrees with 2 Pet 2:1 that Christ purchased all men.]
@@Sentinel517
Scripture interprets scripture.
When Jesus entered jerusalem, the Pharisees said -
"So the Pharisees said to one another, “See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him"john 12:19
You can see here clearly that the "whole world" here didn't mean every single human being on the planet as it was just those in jerusalem.
The context of 1 John still stands, as he didn't need to mention "jew & gentile" as the church was still in its early stages, and the early jewish Christians were amazed that the mystery of God (which he revealed to be the gospel) extended to non Jews ie the whole world.
Yes, God desires all men to be saved, that is what is known to be his revealed will, but his hidden will is that only some will be saved, hence why Jesus said "many are called, few are chosen" Matt 22
Also my friend, what I have found in these debates, no one deals/discusses with all those verses in scripture re election. They will ALWAYS quote the very verses you just have (when I used to oppose this clear doctrine of scripture, I too would quote the "freewill" verses as well)
I would like to hear your exegesis on these verses -
Here are a few
"44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day" John 6:44
"65He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” John 6:6
"When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed." Acts 13:48
"For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Romans 9:15
"Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." Romans 9:18
@@FearNot777 Except that is not what it says. Why can't you just let the scripture speak for itself without adding to it. The true context is actually saying that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the entire world. Let me ask, if Christ didn't die for everyone then how do you know he died for you?
Jesus died for ALL… but it’s only appropriated to those who believe
The problem here is Hebrews says that those for whom he died for, he lives to make intercession for! You are splitting up his high priestly work which the scriptures teach is co-extensive.
Sins of the whole world means elect from every nation!
1 Timothy 4:10 (NKJV)
10For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of **ALL MEN,** especially of those who believe.
[Note: Christ is the savior of **ALL MEN** not just believers.]
1 John 2:2 (NKJV)
2And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and **NOT FOR OURS ONLY** but also for **THE WHOLE WORLD.**
[Note: John agrees with Paul that Christ died for believers AND the whole world.]
2 Peter 2:1 (NKJV)
1But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who **BOUGHT THEM**, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
[Note: how can they be purchased if Christ never died for them?]
Romans 5:18 - Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
In Romans 5, Paul makes it very clear that every person has fallen, but in verse 18 the "all" of the fallen is the same as the "all" justfied. How do you square that with your interpretation of "all"?
Even more,
Romans 5:15 - But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
Says that the gift of Christ is at least as large in application as the trespass, which we all agree must include every person
Verse 19 says many however the word all has its limitations
Anyway great joy in heaven
Over sinners who repent
It's not for us to limit God's
Salvation as we don't know
Who will be chosen!
Jesus said I pray not for the world john17v9
To say “whole world” means only the elect is simply illogical it MUST mean all of mankind
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God BEFORE YOU.
Jesus says the Pharisees will enter into the kingdom of God even though they did not believe implying that those who are in hell will be punished according to what they have done on earth an then will eventually be allowed into the kingdom of God.
For all who, with free will, receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior. That's the answer.
Free will doesn't exist.
The bu le never speak about free will
2 Peter 3:9 states, “The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.” Not willing that ANY should perish. That, in one beautiful verse, DESTROYS the false idea of predestination.
2Pet 3:9:
⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering TO US-WARD, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
@@JESUS_Saves3747 Not sure what point you are trying to make. Don't see what changing words does either.
And the Answer is:
EVERYONE
☦️🙏🏼😇
Who is elect. And this is easily provable by scripture and Bible logic.
Not so. Only His sheep.
@@francissweeney7318
And let me guess, you are one of His sheep 🐑. But how do you know that you are one of His sheep?
@@st.christopher1155 1. You are african descendent 2. You suffered from white supremacy 3. You know the Father's real name.
As Sproul says, Everyone believes in limited atonement. Either by God or man.
For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son, that whoever shall believe him will not perish, but have everlasting life.
If he only died for the chosen ones, it would have read for the chosen, not the world.
Remember, God doesn't show favoritism, and by teying to justify that it's only chosen ones, then you're making him to be a liar. And we know God can never lie.
the law was wiped and fulfilled. end of story.
Matt. 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.”
Kinda doesn’t gel with White’s comment “Jesus does not fail to save exactly who He intends to save.” So, He desires to save them, but doesn’t ‘intend’ to? Calvinists make you mutilate scripture to fit their man-made theology.
Nope. You misinterpret the text. First, in that text, there is no mention of who Christ died for, or even the topic of atonement. CONTEXT IS KEY. In that context, Jesus is accusing the leaders in Jerusalem of hindering the people from gathering to hear his message. No referent to salvation or the work of the cross! Prove it! Also, you interpret this to contradict Daniel which says what God Wills CAN'T BE THWARTED!
Exactly… Jesus must of had fake tears. Knowing that they could of only accepted him, if he had made them…
So basically it’s his fault that they rejected him, according to calvinism.
He weeped because they made the choice to reject because ot free will
For the ones that say yes to Jesus, by obeying what he established and ordained with His Apostles.
Jesus established with His Apostles baptism, confession and Eucharist.
Jonh 6 53:54.
Then Jesus said unto them verly, verly I say unto you except you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood ye have no life in you.
54 whose eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day .
St Paul also said if we drink from the cup in an anwordly manner we will condemme our soul.
Means to recive Jesus in Eucharist we must prepare first by getting rid of sin.
That is why Jesus ordained the sacrament of confession with His Apostles.
This pastors that took a bible from catholic church and made thousands of counterfeit denominations, are the wolves in sheep clothing.
Whether you're 5 points or no points.. idk what the purpose of this question is.
Jesus' sacrifice could save every single soul. It was perfect.
The debate should simply be about Gods sovereign choice vs mans free will.
Yes there's a 100 verses that prove God does everything in the Salvation process including choosing those who will be saved from the foundation of the world etc.
But you cannot ignore the verses maybe 20 that say man must RECEIVE the gift, must ACCEPT the gift.
Why do some Cults do the same thing...., they like these verses yet they ignore the others. Very dangerous practice and reformed theology skirts along the sidelines of that danger.
for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. No respector of persons it's for the whosoever. Romans 10 vs 13
Does Scripture say go and give my lect the Gospel or does Scripture tell us to go and preach the Gospel to every creature?
The problem with your accusation is this: There is no contradiction between God saving some and humans calling all to come and repent! Show the logical contradiction please. Jesus called out to repent did he not? Yet the scripture says Jesus knew who didn't believe! Clear now?
@Soonerking The problem with your lack of comprehension is that because He preaches to all men, God means for all men to come to repentance, not just a select few.
Of course, many will harden their hearts, but those that humble themselves before the Lord are considered to repent toward Him
@@SugoiEnglish1 Your response is clear, but it isn't true. Of course Jesus knew who would or would not accept, but He didn't CHOOSE who would or wouldn't. HUGE difference.
He only died for the israelites, he never said to preach to the heathen but to the lost sheep of Israel (aka the gentiles).
White people isn't one of the sheep.
Itvis they false premise, that is not evident in all of Scripture that God must make a person able to accept the Gospel.
It is their misinterpreting of Romans 9 that leads to this false doctrine.
Wicked Calvinist refuse to believe that you can have a relationship with Jesus. You cannot have any relationship without choice. And it’s a new doctrine as everyone knows
You can have a relationship with Jesus? Calvinism don’t teach that!! What the bible teaches is that we are born in sin and are dead and cannot chose! It’s God who makes us alive!! It’s God who chooses!! So I encourage you to read Gods word ..
@gypsyboy9039 Small problem. What about the chosen who choose regular grade, econo, counted least salvation, instead of blessed sainthood?
By Revelation, only those who choose to keep the commandments of God, recieve blessed sainthood.
R. 14:12, 22:14.
By a man made tradition, salvation. By worship in truth, blessed sainthood.
I love rocket science.
The doctrine is as new as the OT. It is Arminianism, based on secular humanism, that is only 500 years old. Unless you wish to count the Judaizers, Pharisees, and Sadducees. LOL.
@@Gablesman888 What do you mean by, judiazers?
@@eltonron1558 "Tis a Bible word. You can look it up. Or Google-ize it.
He died for ALL (1 Tim. 2:6).
He died for ALL MEN (Rom. 5:18; 1 Tim. 4:10).
He died for US ALL, for ALL OF US (Isa. 53:6).
He died for the UNGODLY (Rom. 5:6).
He died for CHRIST-DENIERS (2 Peter 2:1).
He died for SINNERS (Rom. 5:8).
He died for EVERY MAN (Heb. 2:9).
He died for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
He died for the WORLD (John 6:33,51; John 1:29 and John 3:16).
He died for the WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2).
He died for the WHOLE NATION of Israel (John 11:50-51).
He died for the CHURCH (Eph. 5:25).
He died for His SHEEP (John 10:11).
He died for ME (Gal. 2:20).
You misinterpret most of those verses. You are also starting at the wrong question. The first thing you need to ask is, what did Jesus accomplish on the cross by His death? Then go back and ask yourself did he accomplish it for each and every person? You will see that that can't be true.
JESUS DIED FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLE WORLD. GOD GAVE MAN A CHOICE CALLED FREE WILL. YOU CAN CHOOSE LIFE(JESUS) OR YOU CAN CHOOSE DEATH(HELL AND THE LAKE OF FIRE)
Incorrect. You don't get to choose God. He chooses you. You are saved by grace alone lest you should boast of your works. God gives you saving grace to repent, believe through FAITH and endure to the end. You have no choice at all.
Only the ones who hear God's call, the chosen ones, are saved.
Romans:
"And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified".
@@JohnSmith-zo6ir You should learn God's word.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
3Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
Jesus died for whosoever will come.
Of He knew before the foundation of the world who would receive him and who would not.
I hope you don't believe that satanic garbage that only certain people can be saved. The devil will use that to bring many to hell by saying YOU CAN'T BE SAVED BECAUSE GOD DIDN'T CHOOSE YOU.
Who says whole world means each and every person? If it did, then you have a problem because Jesus in his high priestly prayer explicitly says, I do not pray for the world, but for all those who you have given me, and all who will believe in me through their word...Why interpret a text in such a way to make it contradict Hebrews where Jesus sacrificed for those whom he lives to make intercession for? If Jesus died for each and every person, then he would be living and making intercession for each and every person! Meaning no one goes to hell! Are you a universalist? You are making the word of God contradictory. Please study more.
@@SugoiEnglish1 Has it occurred to you that man may not understand the mind of God? He knew from the foundation of the world who would receive Jesus and who would not.
That's why Jesus would not commit to certain people as he said in John. because he knows the heart of man.
GOD CALLED ALL MANKIND TO TO BE SAVED.
New Living Translation
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
English Standard Version
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Berean Standard Bible
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Berean Literal Bible
On the next day, he sees Jesus coming to him and says, "Behold the Lamb of God, the One taking away the sin of the world.
King James Bible
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
New King James Version
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
New American Standard Bible
The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
God gave man free will to choose between good and evil. He did not give free will for salvation. You don't get to choose Christ. He chooses you. The Bible tell us He chooses us before the beginning of time and then He calls us and draws us near. We are saved by Gods grace through faith and He provides sufficient grace for repentance and belief. Only Christ can save us lest we boast through works. So no, you do not have free will when it comes to salvation. It is predestined.
If many (the most) aren't elected or predestined, then what is the purpose of the Great White Throne? What faith has to do in salvation? What does sin have to do in condemnation? Calvinism is so dangerous. Be careful, read the Word. Be a Berean.
What does 1 Timothy 2:4 say about it?
What does it say in CONTEXT? I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people- 2 for kings and all those in authority...He is talking about those in authority whom many viewed as their oppressors! These does NOT TEACH Jesus removed expiated atoned for each and every person who ever lived or will live. Jesus himself said, I LAY DOWN MY LIFE FOR THE SHEEP...
Only the ones The Father has given to his Son. God knew who would follow him since before the foundations of the world.
Because of the ones given to his son.
And he calls himself a "Doctor" from an UN accredited University. People read the Holy Scripture for YOURSELVES !!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE is not willing that ANY should perish , but that ALL should be Saved!! ALL means ALL and thats ALL , ALL means.
But people do end up in hell. Read the end of revelation. Read the parable of the rich man and lazarus. There is a assumption here that people end up in hell and therefore we must not assume that all will be saved.
Also consider the voice of the martyrs who died for the faith. Whose faith constantly rings out how long will this sin go unpunished if those who commit such acts were all saved how disingenuous would that be
Read the first verse of 2 Peter to find out who Peter is talking to and about. He’s not talking about everyone in the World! He’s talking to and about those that have obtained the Same faith He has. That God is not Willing that any of THEM Perish and that all of THEM be Saved. Read the beginning of the Book of 2 Peter in the context it is written, then you will understand the Truth of 2 Peter 3:9.
He died for all who choose him. That’s what he said. I don’t care what this person says.
Wrong, he chose those who would believe in them. You can't choose Jesus, he chooses you.
@@Nerdzz-ey7no Amen brother
@@Nerdzz-ey7noHE did, Christianity or no.
Mt. 12:31-32
Mk. 3:28
Lk. 12:10
The truth being corroborated beats non corroborated all day, every day.
@@Nerdzz-ey7noEvery knee shall bow.
@@eltonron1558 No. Every knee "should" bow.
Ezekiel 18:19-23 King James Version (KJV)The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him
What the calvinist doesn't understand is the word BOTH. Yes God initiates and does the entire process and we do nothing for salvation.
But we must receive the gift. We must accept the free gift of eternal life. It's BOTH my friends.
Gary, it’s so painfully obvious that this is true that watching the Calvinist struggle to understand this is difficult
What the person who denies the Fall doesn't understand is that humans will not love God while in the flesh or being a natural person. John 3:3 is clear.
@@SugoiEnglish1 you are absolutely spot-on correct.
Psalm 2 disproves limited atonement, as does the Virginia birth. Jesus was born to humanity and is the high priest of all humanity. Not only that, he is also the Messiah, the king of the earth. He has the authority to judge all. The condemnation that came into the world was that men did not believe because they loved darkness.
How can judgment pass upon those to whom belief was withheld? The atonement has to be available to all men for God to be able to judge all based on whether or not they trusted God.
Small problem. The grace of Christianity was declared AFTER grace on the world was. The forgiveness of God is bigger than Christianity, by the word of the one called the truth.
Mt. 12:31-32
Mk. 3:28
Lk. 12:10
Forgiveness, is the avenue to salvation, by a sufficient sacrifice.
We can talk about the big hole in Calvinism later.
Very New Agey sounding.
You aren’t recognizing the distinction between God’s common or general Grace that is given to mankind, and His salvific Grace shown to His children. Also the Matthew reference doesn’t say anything about that. He’s talking about the forgiveness of sins
@MattBean-om3qq This is the grace declared on the whole world, long before the word was uttered by the apostles concerning Christianity. Kingdom being hierarchy, there are counted least, and saints. The vast majority of professing Christianity, never considers after salvation, apparently for fear, loving God is considered seeking justification by law?
Small problem. God's grace, like God Himself, is outside time, that is, before the foundation of the world. You can easily find the verses on that. I do not understand what you are attempting to say with your obsession as to when it was declared*. Not understanding the eternality of God and thus His attributes declares a big hole in one's theology.
*Your knowing full well that the declaration of God about anything is part of His grace (or wrath, depending on where one is standing in relationship to God). LOL.
@@eltonron1558 Run on sentence. 15 yard penalty plus loss of down. Fourth down. [Helpful hint: Punt.] LOL.
when john wrote what he wrote he had NO intention that it would result in a theological point to be debated by "reformers" and theologians. this does not help people get saved. because we can dissect this issue at a conference to justify our divisions from other members of the body of Christ and establish our own sense of academic prowess and pride of doctrine does not mean we are doing the will of God with this text. I know it is argued that this is jealousy for the glory of God, but how does the division this kind of preaching engenders Glorify God?
He died for all. For all to have the opportunity to choose eternal life. That He knew that not all would choose is that and that He knew some would openly oppose that, is Him Being God.
Never confuse divine foreknowledge ( The power to know all possible outcomes of any given choice) with things being predestined to be.
Divining what a person will do, based on all knowledge of them isn't that hard to do, some people can do that, AI certianly can, why not God ??
To say that God knowing what we will do because He knows us better than we know ourselves is "determanislism" is denying His Omniscience.
Only His sheep hear is voice. His sheep are those that seek Him with all of their hearts. Jeremiah 29: 11-13.
So why would He die for them if He knew they wouldn’t respond positively? That’s saying Christ’s blood was wasted
@@MattBean-om3qqWasted ? Never ! The gospel is clear. Jesus was given His sheep, those who follow Him and hear His voice. Those which di not hear His voice and do not follow Him he called goats. Jesus also said that the sheep shall be separated from tbe goats. Those that follow the world are goats.Those who follow Jesus do not follow the world. His blood was required to save His sheep. Those who would not follow Him such as the Scripes and Pharisees, He said leave them alone.It is contrary to the gospel to say Jesus shed His blood for everyone.
@@francissweeney7318 i absolutely agree with you. The Gospel is clear on this. I was responding to OP
He died for ALL, much like a parent that sacrifices for all His children, even the ones that he knows will reject his love. Unconditional love is just that.@@MattBean-om3qq
The following verses proves that Jesus Christ died for the sins of the entire world (All of humanity, both the believer and non-believer). It would not make sense for the verse in John 3:16 to say God so loved 'the world', if this only meant believers because if you look at how the phrase 'the world' is referenced in the other verses it is referring specifically to the non-believers.
John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
John 17:14-16
I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
He called Judas a friend to the very end. He gave Judas a free will just as all of us however, HE knew his future since God sees outside of time and space.
How did Jesus die for your sins when his beloved companions and apostles were witnesses. Because Mark 14:50 they forsook him and fled
If we are going base our doctrine on a statement that rests on Gods ability to save effectually and not anything that man does. Then surely God has failed saving man from sin since man still sins. Here's some sarchasm: man somehow got so powerful to bend Gods saving power and still sin even though man has been saved. This is stupid. Calvinism is stupid. 🤷♂️
That sarcasm is stupid. Use the scripture please or it is just baseless assertion.
JESUS CHRIST is the Spiritual SAVIOUR of the World from Temporal spirits of the Flesh to Eternal Good Spirits in Christ of the LORD GODFATHER in Christ in HEAVEN.the LORD GODFATHER in Christ is SPIRIT and GOOD SPIRIT and as HIS GOOD SPIRITS LIVES Everlastingly so also Your Good Spirits in Christ Lives Continually Everlastingly.
For God so loved the WORLD. That means every man, woman and child who has ever lived. If it didn’t mean that, God would not have said “world”.
Whosoever. Means who ever believes.
He doesn’t regenerate who He wants, and then they believe. Eph 1:13-14 says that the one who believes THEN receives the Holy Spirit.
God wishes that NONE would perish!
The cerebral blinders are so thick for some - blinded by deceit and Satan himself.
What does "world" mean in this verse? John 3:16 is the most misunderstood verse in all of the Bible. I think the best brief exegesis of this verse is by a humble Tennessee pastor, viz:
ruclips.net/video/BDxRss_v78A/видео.html
He that hath ears let Him hear.
Yes He died for everyone but He has known from the beginning who would respond to His call. Many are called but few are chosen.
Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV)22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name? ' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.
And do you known why he say that ?
@@JESUS_Saves3747 yes, and he is coming for you, to judge you. You all who call themselves christians, he will coming again to just judge you.
@@JESUS_Saves3747 yes, to judge you, you who call themselves christian. Jesus will be coming again just to judge you. Didn't you understand what the verse refer to?
The first 30 seconds or so I completely agree with, the rest was nonsense.
Not true
James misses the big picture, that being, the new covenant in Jesus' blood. I am no Greek expert, but as I understand it:
Covenant means a set agreement, with terms, between 2 parties.
So this means 2 things. Firstly, we have a responsibility within this covenant. Secondly, because of this God has NOT failed when people reject him. We have to enter into the agreement God has set up. If we don't, we don't get the reward he has promised to those who do.
He reconciled the world to himself through his body on the cross.
He has not failed.
Simple.
Plus the obvious: Limited atonement aint in the N/T. It just isn't. Whereas the teaching that Jesus died for all, everyone, and the world is everywhere.
Even many calvinst's hold to tuip rather than tulip (another good biblical phrase from calvinist's) choosing to drop L/A. That is why James white's arguement is all philosophy rather than good biblical exegesis.
You need to read the NT a lot more.
@@lawrence1318 Excellent, detailed response 😄
@@paulmann9154 Just worry about the detail of the New Testament, which you clearly are not across.
Limited atonement is easily provable through scripture and Bible logic. Care to hear it? Just let me know, although James White does a really good job at explaining it, Not only does the proof I am talking about deal with limited atonement, but it is one of four proofs that A/P/T is unbiblical, illogical, and a vain philosophy based on secular humanism.
@@Gablesman888 Limited atonement is correct, however if your proof is based on Penal Substitution it is wrongly oriented. The Penal Substitution model is incorrect.
It's really just semantics or theory, only born again Christians have had their sins paid for ultimately.
He saves all who choose to come to Him. It's not complicated;
"Therefore as by the offense of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [Christ] the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." -- From Roman's chapter 5, KJV
There it is, unless you want to accuse Paul of not knowing what he was talking about.
And of course there is John 3:16;
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that WHOSOEVER believerh in him should not perish..." (emphasis mine)
It's simple enough that even we little people can understand it. And it's beautiful! And it's logical. It makes sense!
I only have one little problem with that, if no one chooses him, would that mean that his blood accomplished nothing ? And it was in vain?
2 Peter 3:9 That all should come to repentance, and none should perish.
So people don’t perish?
@@MattBean-om3qq Exactly, Christ laid it down for all. See Revelation 22:I7 All who thirsts let them come and drink from the fountain of life freely.
I figured In 2 Peter 3:9 Was self explanatory, f Christ doesn't want anyone to perish, He must of die for everyone. Don't just the elect aka first fruits. I Cor I5:20 Matthew 27:52
@plainwhitepaper3898 that’s universalism sir
@@MattBean-om3qq Perish, Their Immortal body cast into the furnace of fire. Not exist any longer. Second death. Rev 20:I4 2I:8 Many will go into perdition.
@@plainwhitepaper3898 not sure how you get annihilation from that singular word perish. It’s apollumi (ἀπολέσθαι) in the Greek, and it’s used to express multiple different things in NT. For example, “And no one puts new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins and it will be spilled, and the skins will be destroyed (ἀπολοῦνται - apollumi).” Luke 5:37 In this verse, he describes that the wine skin is “destroyed” as in it no longer has any use, that it’s useless for any purpose etc. he doesn’t express God’s divine judgment against a wineskin that then ceases to exist from the material and spiritual world lol.
A long-winded way to say that Jesus’s sufferings and death fulfills the legal requirement of the law for anyone wishing to be saved.
Everyone who wants to be saved. Because there are those who rather go to hell than to bow before Christ.
Because God is omniscient, and outside of time, He knows exactly who will choose (or if you like, has chosen) to accept the free gift of salvation. This doesn’t mean that certain people will be saved, and other people are barred from being saved. It means that those who will choose to not accept salvation are already known to God because all of time is already known by God. Before he made me, he knew all of the choices that I would make in my life, and he knew that one of those choices was going to be made in 1993, when I was going to accept him as my Lord and Savior. He also knows everyone who is going to choose to not make that acceptance. Now this truth is not Calvinism, because Calvinism proposes that we don’t have to go into all the world and preach the gospel, but the fact is that we don’t know all of the individuals that God knows, those who will be saved, and God has told us to go out and evangelize the world with the Gospel. The evangelizing of the world is also one of the factors that God knew before the beginning, and therefore that evangelizing is a key factor in why those who accept salvation were known to God at that time.
When A/P/Ts speak of making themselves saveable (making a choice, conjuring up faith, making a decision, etc) they are following original Roman Catholic doctrine about being "inherently righteous" in order to be saved. The hysterical part of that is that the A/P/Ts go a step further by not requiring the assistance of a priest. Thus, the A/P/T schema places the would be believer standing with both feet firmly planted in mid-air. A real hat trick. LOL.
What happened after Jesus gave his life? The world is exactly the same and probably worse off. After the Christian church was formed, virtually every war involving Christians had a religious origin. For example, the 30 Years War (1618) waged Catholic Christians against Protestant Christians and was the bloodiest war in history until WWII. The Christians in that war fought to determine who interpreted the Bible correctly. 8 million people died, and >50% of all Germans. You could even say, "Because of Jesus, people sinned even more."
I’d be careful with you comments blaming Jesus for sin.
When he died for sin.
Man’s heart is evil and that the reason.
My friend once mocked God about killing his son and called him evil.
He unfortunately has brain damage now from being run over by my other friend after a fight.
Both smoke heroine.
He is now doing 15 years.
God protects us and provides for us.
He really can just take his hand off and just let people live how they wants and hand them over to real darkness, that they chose to love.
I plead with you, do not mock God.
He loves you and has died for you.
If you want to totally reject him and mock him, your on your own and Satan will sweep you into hell and ruin your whole life.
My friend is now brain dead because he loved Satan and his tricks and hated God.
was Judas not chosen you are deceived Mr white Jesus chose to die for everyone God is no respect of person we were all created in the image God.hell was created for the devil and his angels men go there when they choose to reject the Lord and his gift of salvation Jesus said he came to his own and his own received him not it's a choice it's whosoever believes.scriptures are clear that Jesus died for all everyone it's clear in the old and new testament humble yourself and accept the truth of scripture and stop calling God a liar
No Judas wasn't chosen. Read John 17:12
Judas was chosen but he wasn’t chosen for salvation he was chosen to do the job that he was created for. Just like God chose pharaoh and the time of Moses. He is not calling God a liar at all God is sovereign over his creation and if you can’t except that you might be lost yourself
@@merrillbartle4174 God is stupid and evil
If Jesus died for all, thenall Iwould be saved, so what about the ones that aren’t saved they have to pay for their sins again in hell forever?
@@merrillbartle4174 Judas could have turned to the Savior and he would have forgiven him, but instead he let despair in and hung himself.
Jesus died for all mankind that all mankind might live. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that He is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Jesus spoke often of His sheep, those who the Father gave Him. Salvation only comes by grace, grace is not given to all. I personally do not believe in the predestination doctrine, I believe that on the other hand God knew in the beginning who would be obedient and therefore He knew His sheep, those who would hear His voice. History tells us that most do not hear His voice. Jesus said that He lost none of His sheep. Most did not hear His voice even in His time in the flesh. Jeremiah 29:13 " And when you seek Me with all of your heart, I will be found by you declares The Lord.
@@francissweeney7318did the father know who would believe before he created us ?
Yes.
Proverbs 8 (KJV)
8 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.
5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.
7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.
8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.
9 They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
11 For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
14 Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15 By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16 By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18 Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
32 Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the Lord.
36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.
Thanks for using the KJB aka God's perfect word!
He died to save all who will repent and believe the gospel. These are the elect chosen by God before the foundation of the World. The “all” is referring to both Jew and Gentile but not all people. Christianity is not Universalism! Remember God would be just to send us all to Eternal damnation but he is rich in mercy and gives grace and mercy to whom he chooses. Does this make him unjust? Not at all. It is amazing grace for a reason, because not one of us deserves it!!!🙏❤️.
How can one believe the Gospel, Christs death, burial, and resurrection for our sins, if one is not sure that it was for them? How could one believe Christ bore their sins and be saved if they don’t know if he did?
@@jesussaves3741 if they have turned to trust and believe that, that itself is the proof that they have been born again.
Believe what? That Christ died for their sins? How can they believe if they don’t know for sure that he did? Paul says in Romans how can someone believe if they have not heard. If Christ didn’t die for everyone then without personal revelation no one would be able to know for sure that he died for them. So are you saying that one needs extra biblical revelation to discern whether Christ died for them? Thankfully God has not left us in the dark on this matter Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the world as the Bible so plainly tells us. Scripture alone is sufficient for any man to know that Christ died for them because when God says in his word in the book of Hebrews that Christ “ tasted death for every man” God is not being deceptive but means exactly what he says in His Word.
Didn’t Jesus die because he said untruth in 24:34?
24:34, what? 😳
@@anothergoldilocks1077 sorry mate missed Mathew 24:34
Amen, God is sovereign 100%
This guy is making wrong assumptions and quoting the wrong scriptures. When the scriptures talk about "all" being saved, the context is used in two ways, namely; "all" of humanity and "all" of the chosen ones (the elect) who were predestined before the beginning of time.
So, "all" of humanity is divided into "all" the elect and "all" of the non-elect.
Clearly, not everyone will be saved, otherwise we would all go to heaven and there would be no hell, which we know is not true. Revelations talks about the Day of Judgement and those who did not believe are thrown into the Lake of Fire (hell).
The chosen are called by Christ and those who hear will respond and believe through the grace that God gives them in His sufficiency.
Romans 8:30 - "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified".
So, only the chosen ones who God foreknew before the beginning of time will be saved. Only the chosen ones are called, justified and glorified.
It was the chosen at first for the black African Israelites. But it was exstended to all.
A loser savior!
There is so much wrong with what he says here. Let's just look at the verses James White points out and the fact that he is not understanding these particular scriptures.
0:30 he is ABLE to save. How can you skip such a critical word such as ABLE?
0:50 he has perfected those who are BEING SANCTIFIED. Those who ARE ALREADY SAVED !! How can he miss this ?He's not talking about the unsaved there, those who are being Sanctified are those who are saved.
1:40 of course he's making intercession because he wishes that all would come to repentance. He's Gathering the chicks as a hen but they were not willing etc.
Besides, he wouldn't have to make intercession if these elect or chosen folks were already saved.
Why make intercession LOL it's already done before the foundation of the world LOL.
Did Jesus die for the sin of everyone or just the chosen? Now certainly limited atonement can be biblically proven through Bible verse exegesis. But what if you could see that the Arminian/Provisionist atonement schema was impossible? I mean impossible like you cannot get there from here impossible? Let's use both Bible passages and Bible logic.
First, you yourself most definitely believe in limited atonement. Otherwise, you would believe in universal atonement. And there are some Christians, however mixed up, who believe that everyone is saved. You are most likely a limited man or woman on this issue.
But let's put this to the test. Pick your favorite OT lost person. I choose Ahab since we know so much about him. According to Jesus in the NT, where is Ahab right now and what is he doing? He is in Hell, experiencing forever the wrath of God against him, having died in his sins around 880 BC, and now paying for his sinfulness throughout eternity. So far, so good. A/Ps and Calvinists both in agreement.
Now back to Jesus. If, say, Ahab is at this very moment experiencing the wrath of God forever and ever for his sins, then how could a just, righteous, and loving God force His wrath upon His Son on the cross 880 years later to pay for Ahab's sins when Ahab has been doing just that already for 880 years before Calvary? To believe that, we have the situation of Christ being crucified again, something really condemned in Hebrews 6. Here A/Ps love to see Jesus placed in theological double jeopardy as He suffers on the cross.
Further, we also run afoul of Isaiah 53 wherein we have the depiction of the suffering servant (Jesus) seeing the travail of His soul and being satisfied. Not dissatisfied. Not worrying about Ahab still suffering for Ahab's sins despite what Jesus would attempt to do for him. And we don't have a truly angry Son of God wondering why the Father is making Him die in vain for someone in Hell forever anyway. Do you see the many problems here?
In other words, Isaiah 53 is saying that Jesus is not some kind of masochist who just likes to suffer for sin; instead He suffers for the sins of a particular people, in this case, the elect. And only the elect. A limited (like A/Ps and Calvinists would all agree on) albeit large group of people. Jesus prays about this very thing in John 17 when he declines to pray for the world. And our Dear Lord is satisfied in His great work to save these elect people. The people given to Christ by the Father for salvation. Again, John 17.
This one teaching from God's word destroys Arminian/Provisionism in one move since we see here from God's word that Christ did not die for everyone. He died for the elect. Have a problem with that? Talk to the judge. That will preach all day. Amen.
Very well put
He’s not wrong. He’s absolutely wicked
?
?
@@Gablesman888 Apparently he doesn't want to explain what he meant.
@@bobbyadkins6983I feel his pain. I think I used that silly term once to explain my golf slice.
If Jesus is alive than he didn't die for anyone's sins.
Acts 5:29-31 tells you who Christ died for
Only the 12 tribes of Israel
1 John 2:1-2 , 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:10, 1 John 4:14, John 3:36, Hebrews 2:9, 1 John 4:19, John 5:22-23, Jeremiah 29:11-13, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16. All those verses contradict your statement
And there are many more🤦♂️
@@Luke_IVI non contradiction.the Bible doesn't contradict itself.
matthew 1:21
only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl.
he is a jew right?.
aren't the jews Israelites.
matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for.
romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for
duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites.
Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation.
and I plenty more.
in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites
hebrews 1:2
"by whom also he made the worldS "s" meaning plural.
world means nation in greek.
the nation of ppl are the Israelites.
go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl.
1 John 4:10
is a precept to acts 5:29-31
it tells you who gets repentance.
only the ones under the first covenant.
not every nation was under the first covenant.
hebrews 8: 7-10
"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."
the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law.
psalms 147:19-20
@@Luke_IVI
no contradiction. the Bible doesn't contradict itself.
matthew 1:21
only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl.
he is a jew right?.
aren't the jews Israelites.
matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for.
romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for
duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites.
Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation. "WORLD without end"
and there is plenty more.
in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites
hebrews 1:2
"by whom also he made the worldsssss "s" meaning plural.
world means nation in greek.
the nation of ppl are the Israelites.
go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl.
1 John 4:10
is a precept to acts 5:29-31
it tells you who gets repentance.
only the ones under the first covenant.
not every nation was under the first covenant.
hebrews 8: 7-10
"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."
the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law.
psalms 147:19-20
@@Luke_IVI
no contradiction. the Bible doesn't contradict itself.
matthew 1:21
only the Israelites are Jesus's ppl.
he is a jew right?.
aren't the jews Israelites?
matthew 15:24 Jesus tells you himself who he is sent for.
romans 9:1-5 tells who salvation is for
duteronomy 7:6 god only loves the Israelites.
Isaiah 45:17 only Israel receives everlasting salvation.
"WORLD!! without end"
and I have plenty more.
in 1 John 1 the "world" in reference are the Israelites
hebrews 1:2
"by whom also he made the worldS "s" meaning plural.
world means nation in greek.
the nation of ppl are the Israelites.
go study genealogy of the different nations/worlds of ppl. the Israelites is just one world/nation of ppl.
1 John 4:10
is a precept to acts 5:29-31
it tells you who gets repentance.
only the ones under the first covenant.
not every nation was under the first covenant.
hebrews 8: 7-10
"I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah."
the new covenant is not with anyone else cause everyone didn't have the law.
psalms 147:19-20
He never answered the question!!
The claim that Jesus died for other people’s sins is nonsensical. How does a minor Jewish preacher achieve such a thing? How exactly does it work? When he was put to death, he would have been terrified and regretting that he allowed himself to be put in that position. The Romans, for their part, would have made sure that he endured extreme pain and would ensure that his body stayed on cross until it rotted. It’s common knowledge that the local population stayed well away from the execution grounds. He was have been terrified and lonely. He would not be thinking of others.
Because Jesus Christ is God (Heb.1;John 1,etc).
@@mr.f6912 That doesn’t make sense. In what way did he save you?
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. What you just said was in a mocking and blasphemous tone.
@@michaelharris4101 He did not become deified until well after his death. His resurrection and deification were simply marketing ploys by early Christians to get more followers. This was common in that era. Even if, as you claim, Jesus was a deity his death did not save anyone. I have yet to hear how that would work.
Here’s something -
If people didn’t have a choice in accepting or rejecting Him, He couldn’t send anybody to hell. In order for God to be justified in sending someone to hell, He has to have given them a choice.
I can’t force my child to do wrong, and then punish her for it.
Why is this such a difficult concept to understand for so many? 🤷♂️
Romans 1:20, KJV, “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”
If God chose some and not all, those He didn’t choose would have an excuse, and could not be condemned to hell.
If they CAN choose, of their own free will, THEN they would have no excuse.
Sorry Calvinists, the Bible says your doctrine is false. 🤷♂️ Better get a clue!
Read Romans 9.
If Jesus died for all, then Hell is empty. Actually, in Hezekiah 187:329 it says that Hell became a Chuck-e-Cheez. But today it is an empty parking lot.
Brian at Faith On Fire channel does a really good job debunking Calvinism.
@@kimwestwood8840 Brian at Faith on Fire should more accurately be called Pants on Fire. He is a false teacher.
@@Gablesman888 Anyone who agrees with Calvinism would agree with you. I do not. I agree with scripture
“But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign LORD who bought them-bringing swift destruction on themselves.” - 1 Peter 2:1
God sends “strong delusion” to those who do not honestly go with His truth over all else like Paul did (Romans 3:4)
And finally
“And he (Jesus) is the propitiation (atoning sacrifice) for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2
Hold your horses. You're talking about Jesus' death, but you haven't proved that he definitively existed.
A good number of atheists who set out to disprove Jesus and his claims come to Christ when they decide to investigate.
I highly recommend you obtain the book ‘A for Christ’ by Lee Strobel. Lee set out to disprove the existence of Jesus after his wife’s conversion. He tells how he was confronted by the such a weight of evidence he too converted.
No first century source refutes that. Don’t you think there would be at least ONE ?
@@CSUnger Everything ever written about Jesus was from people who never claimed to have met him, and written decades after his purported death. Best you can say is maybe Jesus existed.
“[16] For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
[18] we heard this voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.”
2 Peter 1: 16 & 18
Thanks for playing
@@CSUnger Yeah, you just quoted nonsense, so, ok.
No one can prove conclusively ever existed
That you ever existed?
@@Gablesman888 that I exist is not in question, I pay taxes, I have an NI number, the question is did the Jesus of the Bible exist, and all I am stating is there is not one recorded account, sourced, verified and corroborated by any persons known to have existed by that same criteria that evidences he irrefutably, undeniably, indisputably, conclusively did so. You can believe all you are indoctrinated with, but you cannot evidence what you believe, if you had evidence as such you would not need to have belief. Wriggle like the indoctrinated snake you are, wriggle, lie and sneeze as much as you like, you cannot deny the truth of what I write.