Most pros on tour that swing upright have to drop it into the slot on the downswing. That takes amazing timing (that I don’t have). I have a very flat swing and I don’t have to feel like I’m dropping the club on the downswing because it’s already down in the first place.
Corry, I've been swinging this way for over 20 years and it has worked well for me. At one point, I was the number two golfer at my club for years. This method really works and I'm so glad you use the gentleman to prove the point. His swing looks exactly like mine and even at 59 years old I'm still one of the longest hitters and I hit the ball as straight as straight can be. Thank you again for sharing this video, I think you are a fantastic teacher of this method.
Very smart way to play...Doug Sanders played something like this and he was (for a time...) one of the most accurate strikers ever. He had 20 PGA Tour wins.
Corey. I have been trying to cure coming over the top for years with no results I watched your video, went out and shot 10 strokes below my consistent average. I was amazed at how straight I hit the ball, I usually hit a nasty slice or big cut at best. The shots of you moving your hands slowly back behind your lower back in the backswing is what really helped me understand how to flatten my swing plane. Thanks for this awesome video!
I've always been a golfer who swings flat and has my left arm below my shoulder at the top. Tried the inside out and outside in loop swing to no avail. Staying on the clubs plane and swinging flat has always been natural to me. My club fitting came up 5* flat due to my long torso and short legs. Thank you so much for showing me my natural tendencies aren't crazy! Any advice on chunking (my plague) and getting a little more distance?
kingfrenzo thanks and glad you liked the video. As far as distance and good old solid contact, I would direct you to my video The Untold Secret to Perfect Impact... I explain the difference between wrist cock and wrist hinge... wrist cock can lead to a lot of fat shots where wrist hinge will either be solid or a bit thin... thanks again and hope it helps!
I watched the video and keeping a little right angle in my wright wrist at impact was powerful. (not 100% sure hitting foam balls in living room), but ball went a lot faster than normal. Still hitting the ground at the ball though instead of after it or topping.
kingfrenzo keep the club head low and straight as you take it away, you don’t need to do anything, because anything you do on the takeaway or the backswing has to come out on the downswing.
@@kingfrenzo - Chunking I'd check your head movement. At transition through impact there should be zero head movement. I think a flat swing and flat swing plane will by design have more chunked shots. Any surface but a pristine fairway will setup for a chunk. You'd better have a steep swing in your bad to get out of any kind of rough for sure.
With the flat swing, which I have, are you still hinging the wrist (radial deviation) at the top of backswing? Wondering if doing so opens up the club face? I have always been told to get more vertical but feel like I hit best flatter. But I’m not sure what to do with wrist. I use to purposeful try to keep straight during back swing.
Take a look at this other video of mine where I talk about the wrist position. It’s about understanding what happens vs understanding what you think you have to do. Thanks for watching hope the explanation helps. ruclips.net/video/ru-uvZFWHoc/видео.htmlsi=dJ3pYA6GhbHJfNpk
l like this video. I tried for my wife this before I saw this. This works great for my wife who failed all other method. Then I tried myself it even worked well with me. Now I can swing and hit the ball as hard as I can.
At 1:52, the left arm has clearly moved independently, but that's a quibble. The reason your club goes "up" if you don't lift it is that you have a tilted spine. Also because of the way joints in the arms and shoulders work. But I think you're talking about _extra_ up beyond what would happen naturally because of the tilted spine. Having said that, I agree that what you say is mostly true. Flatter and more compact go together well, and some of the best ballstrikers in history have done it. What's more, if you look back at some of the more famous midcareer shifts in swing technique among prominent players -- Hogan, Nicklaus, O'Meara, Faldo, et al. -- all of them involved some combination of flatter and more compact. However, to advance this theory very far, you would need to account for what John Jacobs said, and what innumerable teachers since, have repeated, with regard to the arms swinging on a somewhat different plane than the shoulders are on. He would insist there _does_ need to be a certain amount of "lift." I know the one-planers want to do something different, but invariably the people they cite as examples don't have literally one-plane swings, or even swings that match the shoulder plane in a full backswing. However, that doesn't change the fact that generally a flatter plane -- something closer to the plane of the shoulders -- tends to give a player more ability to hit the ball squarely in the back and drive it forward, rather than come in steep with a glancing blow, and too much force directed downward. If you're too upright, it gets really, really hard to hit the ball solidly with any consistency. The toe is always trying to work toward the ball, for one thing. It's true that if a downswing is oriented the right way, the pulling forces tend to pull the club into plane anyway, but there's no particular advantage, or really anything other than the potential of added complication, why a player should want to be very much (or at all) upright from the address shaft plane as the backswing progresses and at the top. If you're staying close to that plane, it just requires fewer adjustments on the way down to the ball. If you haven't read Xichao Mo's Decoding the Golf Swing Plane, you might find it interesting. IMHO it's the absolute state of the art in explication of the swing plane. Could've used some judicious editing in aspects of terminology and (I think) when it shifts from analysis to prescriptive instruction, but those are minor criticisms. It's an absolutely fascinating book by a guy who comes at it from a seriously science-and-engineering perspective. As for the demo swings, I'm hoping those are intentionally a bit extreme, since some of them involve a very VERY flat backswing with an over-the-top move back to the ball. (The two swings into the net at 5:10 are more like it.) I think the right approach is the _right_ plane, not an infinitely flat one. But for somebody who's been overlifting and too upright, it's definitely going to feel like you're trying to get them swinging way too flat. Once they hook into it, though, they'll usually find that a lot of other stuff irons itself out. When you're actually on-plane, you tend to do things like turning your upper body, resisting appropriately with the lower, rotating the arms appropriately, etc., without thinking so much about them directly. The more upright and off-plane you get, the less that happens, and the more you have to direct individual parts, or at least that's been my experience both in competition and with students.
Matt Kuchar is about as flat as can be and he's a great ball striker. Today I went to the range and made up my mind I had to find something more consistent. It dawned on me that what I needed to do was get my swing more around my body and like magic I started hitting a sweet little draw. It's so much easier to swing that way and at age 66 it takes the stress off the back.
Hi Patrick if you check out Chris O’Connells appraisal of Matt kutchers swing ,you will learn that his swing is actually very steep ,it looks flat due to the amount he bends over at address That being said l agree with your points about swinging flat being good for the back 👍
This is a valuable method that works very well - especially for senior golfers. I would like to visit the channel you mentioned but could not find the links in the comments. Could you give it please.
I like swinging more vertical for balls on the ground by standing closer and connecting my upper arms and elbows to my torso more, and a little flatter when they’re off the tee by letting the arms and elbows come free more.
My best ball striking years was a flat swing. I thought being more upright would give me more distance. Went from a scratch to 5 handicap with horrible ball striking. Looking to get some flatness back into my swing
Pretty much mirrors me. I have played to single figures for years but always felt my swing should be a little more upright, so I worked on steepening the back swing and taking the club away outside the line to then drop it back on plane. After about a month, I tossed it in the bin and went back to autopilot and immediately found rythym and consistency again. I should have know better but if it aint broke, don't fix it. I guess we all look for improvement which is no bad thing but sometimes we should accept what we have from a natural stand point. When you look at the guys on tour, it is clear they all work with what they have, hence you have so many different styles. Looking at these videos also makes me realise that actually my swing is not what I would describe as flat but actually on lane and neutral for my size. Which is a good thing.
If one is a slicer with a steep backswing, the best remedy is to overhaul the swing with a flat backswing. Though the arm speed will reduce, you can add speed by pushing your arms with your right shoulder very fast like you are hitting a baseball bat or an ax to cut the big tree.
Vinz Deevy yes this is a very good start once the player gets why getting flatter has made a difference then you start working towards finding something in between flat and steep based on lot of different variations depending on the student
Vinz Deevy yes, I was fighting a weak fade/ slice and just swung more around my body and I feel now in transition my left hips clears and everything Falls into place. Hitting a true draw now
I swing exactly like this Asian guy. It’s consistent and holds up under pressure very well, almost swing better under pressure. Just get the club behind you, than naturally swing over the top to steeping the club. Same principle as steep to shallow, only shallow to steep. I’m a 5 handicap for twenty years and play great when money is in play. Downside is it’s hard to get out of deep rough and fairway bunkers as well as green side bunkers are tough. Leagues that roll the ball are the best because the angle is shallow so lies each day are more important than anything else. Distance control will be spot on but direction is tougher. Anyway, it’s an OTT move that would help 90% of golfers.
If one goes to a flatter swing, do the clubs have to be adjusted to a flatter lie? It would seem that if the standard clubs are built for upright, the contact with a flatter swing would be off and hitting hosel first then flipping the toe over. Just my findings after I had my clubs adjusted (forged irons).
Hank Bass yes of course but now we would be getting into a whole other video maybe even many videos!! This video is a very general and simple foundational thought that will help certain players with some very basic issues... such as Marry Had A little Lamb on the piano just because you get that down doesn’t mean you can play piano, but you are now ready to revive more information based on the knowledge established by the thought brought on Pryor... John Erickson goes into detail on the exact thing your comment relates to and I would check him out and he is really good about replying to questions... advancedballstriking.com John Erickson on RUclips
Can’t swing too flat!? I was hitting it fat, and an instructor told me I was too flat? Then, I started shanking the ball and another instructor told me I was too flat? I’m wondering what you know that they don’t know. What has to happen to make your claim true? An answer to that will shut me up.
Richard Charles it is a way to play for sure, but based on this video we are really just learning a fundamental that helps with becoming a master ball striker
@@stephjo99 Thanks for posting this video. This is the first time I've seen what the concept is on this swing. I will give it a go, I'm much too steep now.
Richard Charles keep it simple and remember that this video is not in itself exactly how you want to try and hit every shot, but is a very good foundation to start from!! Cheers and best of luck!!
Sorry but the gentleman swinging definitely opens the clubface on the backswing then rolls his arms, closing the face as he turns thru. You can’t have a flat swing whilst keeping the clubface looking at the ball, you can only do that with an upright swing.
Richard Little yes you are correct, but once you could strike it solid from the flat position you can then start to synchronize an arm lift into the rotation ... watch the video “on the road to recovery” I show a swing from different angles with the face not opening with a flat swing with a blend of very subtle arm lift.. the mans name in the video is Tang he lifts only with his right arm... trades a little distance for consistency
@Career Conversations Her swing is flat because she is only 5'4". She would pick up club head speed if she could produce a more upright swing. She is also gorgeous.
Most pros on tour that swing upright have to drop it into the slot on the downswing. That takes amazing timing (that I don’t have). I have a very flat swing and I don’t have to feel like I’m dropping the club on the downswing because it’s already down in the first place.
Corry, I've been swinging this way for over 20 years and it has worked well for me. At one point, I was the number two golfer at my club for years. This method really works and I'm so glad you use the gentleman to prove the point. His swing looks exactly like mine and even at 59 years old I'm still one of the longest hitters and I hit the ball as straight as straight can be. Thank you again for sharing this video, I think you are a fantastic teacher of this method.
Anderson McCant thank you very much appreciate the kind words. Glad that you were able to find validation of your own method!
Hi. do you feel or do you come over the top with ur swing?
@@TomSmith-yt8ce not if I’m focused on powering the move from the ground up
I play like this I’m off 1 hcp, it works.
Very smart way to play...Doug Sanders played something like this and he was (for a time...) one of the most accurate strikers ever. He had 20 PGA Tour wins.
Corey. I have been trying to cure coming over the top for years with no results I watched your video, went out and shot 10 strokes below my consistent average.
I was amazed at how straight I hit the ball, I usually hit a nasty slice or big cut at best. The shots of you moving your hands slowly back behind your lower back in the backswing is what really helped me understand how to flatten my swing plane. Thanks for this awesome video!
Absolutely!
I've always been a golfer who swings flat and has my left arm below my shoulder at the top. Tried the inside out and outside in loop swing to no avail. Staying on the clubs plane and swinging flat has always been natural to me. My club fitting came up 5* flat due to my long torso and short legs. Thank you so much for showing me my natural tendencies aren't crazy! Any advice on chunking (my plague) and getting a little more distance?
kingfrenzo thanks and glad you liked the video. As far as distance and good old solid contact, I would direct you to my video The Untold Secret to Perfect Impact... I explain the difference between wrist cock and wrist hinge... wrist cock can lead to a lot of fat shots where wrist hinge will either be solid or a bit thin... thanks again and hope it helps!
I watched the video and keeping a little right angle in my wright wrist at impact was powerful. (not 100% sure hitting foam balls in living room), but ball went a lot faster than normal. Still hitting the ground at the ball though instead of after it or topping.
kingfrenzo keep the club head low and straight as you take it away, you don’t need to do anything, because anything you do on the takeaway or the backswing has to come out on the downswing.
kingfrenzo there is some good stuff in the video The Untold Secret to Perfect Impact explained in detail, or the video on the Takeaway...
@@kingfrenzo - Chunking I'd check your head movement. At transition through impact there should be zero head movement. I think a flat swing and flat swing plane will by design have more chunked shots. Any surface but a pristine fairway will setup for a chunk. You'd better have a steep swing in your bad to get out of any kind of rough for sure.
With the flat swing, which I have, are you still hinging the wrist (radial deviation) at the top of backswing? Wondering if doing so opens up the club face? I have always been told to get more vertical but feel like I hit best flatter. But I’m not sure what to do with wrist. I use to purposeful try to keep straight during back swing.
Take a look at this other video of mine where I talk about the wrist position. It’s about understanding what happens vs understanding what you think you have to do. Thanks for watching hope the explanation helps. ruclips.net/video/ru-uvZFWHoc/видео.htmlsi=dJ3pYA6GhbHJfNpk
l like this video. I tried for my wife this before I saw this. This works great for my wife who failed all other method. Then I tried myself it even worked well with me. Now I can swing and hit the ball as hard as I can.
At 1:52, the left arm has clearly moved independently, but that's a quibble.
The reason your club goes "up" if you don't lift it is that you have a tilted spine. Also because of the way joints in the arms and shoulders work. But I think you're talking about _extra_ up beyond what would happen naturally because of the tilted spine.
Having said that, I agree that what you say is mostly true. Flatter and more compact go together well, and some of the best ballstrikers in history have done it. What's more, if you look back at some of the more famous midcareer shifts in swing technique among prominent players -- Hogan, Nicklaus, O'Meara, Faldo, et al. -- all of them involved some combination of flatter and more compact.
However, to advance this theory very far, you would need to account for what John Jacobs said, and what innumerable teachers since, have repeated, with regard to the arms swinging on a somewhat different plane than the shoulders are on. He would insist there _does_ need to be a certain amount of "lift." I know the one-planers want to do something different, but invariably the people they cite as examples don't have literally one-plane swings, or even swings that match the shoulder plane in a full backswing.
However, that doesn't change the fact that generally a flatter plane -- something closer to the plane of the shoulders -- tends to give a player more ability to hit the ball squarely in the back and drive it forward, rather than come in steep with a glancing blow, and too much force directed downward. If you're too upright, it gets really, really hard to hit the ball solidly with any consistency. The toe is always trying to work toward the ball, for one thing. It's true that if a downswing is oriented the right way, the pulling forces tend to pull the club into plane anyway, but there's no particular advantage, or really anything other than the potential of added complication, why a player should want to be very much (or at all) upright from the address shaft plane as the backswing progresses and at the top. If you're staying close to that plane, it just requires fewer adjustments on the way down to the ball.
If you haven't read Xichao Mo's Decoding the Golf Swing Plane, you might find it interesting. IMHO it's the absolute state of the art in explication of the swing plane. Could've used some judicious editing in aspects of terminology and (I think) when it shifts from analysis to prescriptive instruction, but those are minor criticisms. It's an absolutely fascinating book by a guy who comes at it from a seriously science-and-engineering perspective.
As for the demo swings, I'm hoping those are intentionally a bit extreme, since some of them involve a very VERY flat backswing with an over-the-top move back to the ball. (The two swings into the net at 5:10 are more like it.)
I think the right approach is the _right_ plane, not an infinitely flat one. But for somebody who's been overlifting and too upright, it's definitely going to feel like you're trying to get them swinging way too flat. Once they hook into it, though, they'll usually find that a lot of other stuff irons itself out. When you're actually on-plane, you tend to do things like turning your upper body, resisting appropriately with the lower, rotating the arms appropriately, etc., without thinking so much about them directly. The more upright and off-plane you get, the less that happens, and the more you have to direct individual parts, or at least that's been my experience both in competition and with students.
Where is the link?
I do find that a flat swing is better, for me... as soon as i lift my arms, i will go over the top
Exactly, I had the same problem.
Matt Kuchar is about as flat as can be and he's a great ball striker. Today I went to the range and made up my mind I had to find something more consistent. It dawned on me that what I needed to do was get my swing more around my body and like magic I started hitting a sweet little draw. It's so much easier to swing that way and at age 66 it takes the stress off the back.
Hi Patrick if you check out Chris O’Connells appraisal of Matt kutchers swing ,you will learn that his swing is actually very steep ,it looks flat due to the amount he bends over at address
That being said l agree with your points about swinging flat being good for the back 👍
It works! Shot my best round yet!
Rolando Evans glad it was able to make a difference!
This is a valuable method that works very well - especially for senior golfers. I would like to visit the channel you mentioned but could not find the links in the comments. Could you give it please.
I like swinging more vertical for balls on the ground by standing closer and connecting my upper arms and elbows to my torso more, and a little flatter when they’re off the tee by letting the arms and elbows come free more.
My best ball striking years was a flat swing. I thought being more upright would give me more distance. Went from a scratch to 5 handicap with horrible ball striking. Looking to get some flatness back into my swing
Pretty much mirrors me. I have played to single figures for years but always felt my swing should be a little more upright, so I worked on steepening the back swing and taking the club away outside the line to then drop it back on plane. After about a month, I tossed it in the bin and went back to autopilot and immediately found rythym and consistency again. I should have know better but if it aint broke, don't fix it. I guess we all look for improvement which is no bad thing but sometimes we should accept what we have from a natural stand point.
When you look at the guys on tour, it is clear they all work with what they have, hence you have so many different styles. Looking at these videos also makes me realise that actually my swing is not what I would describe as flat but actually on lane and neutral for my size. Which is a good thing.
If one is a slicer with a steep backswing, the best remedy is to overhaul the swing with a flat backswing. Though the arm speed will reduce, you can add speed by pushing your arms with your right shoulder very fast like you are hitting a baseball bat or an ax to cut the big tree.
Vinz Deevy yes this is a very good start once the player gets why getting flatter has made a difference then you start working towards finding something in between flat and steep based on lot of different variations depending on the student
Vinz Deevy yes, I was fighting a weak fade/ slice and just swung more around my body and I feel now in transition my left hips clears and everything Falls into place. Hitting a true draw now
I swing exactly like this Asian guy. It’s consistent and holds up under pressure very well, almost swing better under pressure.
Just get the club behind you, than naturally swing over the top to steeping the club.
Same principle as steep to shallow, only shallow to steep.
I’m a 5 handicap for twenty years and play great when money is in play.
Downside is it’s hard to get out of deep rough and fairway bunkers as well as green side bunkers are tough. Leagues that roll the ball are the best because the angle is shallow so lies each day are more important than anything else.
Distance control will be spot on but direction is tougher.
Anyway, it’s an OTT move that would help 90% of golfers.
The first guy to teach me how to swing had my swing very steep. I’ve been fighting that ever since.
If one goes to a flatter swing, do the clubs have to be adjusted to a flatter lie? It would seem that if the standard clubs are built for upright, the contact with a flatter swing would be off and hitting hosel first then flipping the toe over. Just my findings after I had my clubs adjusted (forged irons).
Hank Bass yes of course but now we would be getting into a whole other video maybe even many videos!! This video is a very general and simple foundational thought that will help certain players with some very basic issues... such as Marry Had A little Lamb on the piano just because you get that down doesn’t mean you can play piano, but you are now ready to revive more information based on the knowledge established by the thought brought on Pryor... John Erickson goes into detail on the exact thing your comment relates to and I would check him out and he is really good about replying to questions... advancedballstriking.com John Erickson on RUclips
Swinging flat isn’t the best technique for hitting out of thick rough. Club gets caught up but that’s the only exception
Finish is with high hands though?
Harsh Toke the face stays square until the arms reach their full extension and then they go up as the body rotates
depends on the shot
As right arm bends it lifts the left arm naturally
Exactly 👍
Can’t swing too flat!? I was hitting it fat, and an instructor told me I was too flat? Then, I started shanking the ball and another instructor told me I was too flat? I’m wondering what you know that they don’t know. What has to happen to make your claim true? An answer to that will shut me up.
I play with a golfer that does this. Plays pretty good, no miracle, but seems to work.
Richard Charles it is a way to play for sure, but based on this video we are really just learning a fundamental that helps with becoming a master ball striker
@@stephjo99 Thanks for posting this video. This is the first time I've seen what the concept is on this swing. I will give it a go, I'm much too steep now.
Richard Charles keep it simple and remember that this video is not in itself exactly how you want to try and hit every shot, but is a very good foundation to start from!! Cheers and best of luck!!
Sorry but the gentleman swinging definitely opens the clubface on the backswing then rolls his arms, closing the face as he turns thru. You can’t have a flat swing whilst keeping the clubface looking at the ball, you can only do that with an upright swing.
Anyone interested in hearing about the new and exciting developmental golf tour thats starting up... Let me know
It’s the litzke move
Hi guys here is the link to the man with the beautiful swing in the video... ruclips.net/video/xAb6L7W-SbY/видео.html
That guy perfectly copied my swing. For years I've tried to swing steeper. It seems that was a waste of time.
I'm starting to move to a flatter Effortless swing
Big mistake
Flat back, regular down.
Regular back, regular down
Steep back,regular down
Always regular down swing.
😆
Flat backswing = over the top downswing
Not if you keep right arm in flexed position
You dont show any results or any ball flights or speak about score improvement. To be fair.
Flat swing produces less club head speed every time.
Richard Little yes you are correct, but once you could strike it solid from the flat position you can then start to synchronize an arm lift into the rotation ... watch the video “on the road to recovery” I show a swing from different angles with the face not opening with a flat swing with a blend of very subtle arm lift.. the mans name in the video is Tang he lifts only with his right arm... trades a little distance for consistency
@Career Conversations Her swing is flat because she is only 5'4". She would pick up club head speed if she could produce a more upright swing. She is also gorgeous.
Impossible to even hear what you’re saying.
John Wheeler sorry about that... I can hear it, but I agree that it’s not the best audio quality. Just used my phone