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Referees Milenchev and Valiyev are some of the biggest problems with reffing at the international level. 1. Both of them have some clear biases and Valiyev has been know to take part in matches with a conflict of interest 2. Milenchev will never fix his calls, regardless of how incorrect they may be
Misjudgment is a serious problem. I am a fencing player in Japan and have been having serious problems with misjudgments lately. In university student matches and in national tournaments, favoritism by referees is commonplace. Whether in pool or tournament matches, the referees always score the national team players. They are arrogant when I protest. I am confident that the legitimacy of the sabre competition will eventually be questioned. There will be limits to having a single person's eyes judge the order of attacks so quickly. And anyone who has the attitude of favoring either player is not qualified to be a referee.
You are 100% right, and if it is any consolation, it has been much the same in USA for a long time although I dare to say the fairness has improved steadily since maybe 2014-2016. Evidence of this is that more people who aren't "supposed to win" are now winning. Yet somehow, the magical biased calls always come back during Olympic qualification year, every quad. It's almost like the referees are scared to be the one to declare an Olympian/world team member the loser of a bout that could cost them their spot, because if the referee isn't 1,000% right, their career might be over. Then, though unconfirmed, I sense there is conflict of interest in the form of money when you dig deep enough - do I think referees are being directly paid to cheat? No, but 90% of top referees are also coaches, and having high-profile fencers win under their match magically opens up opportunities for them to make lots of money down the line with their own private business and connections gained, and that is historically verifiable. It's complicated and ugly.
Also does anyone feel like this compilation highlights how Milenchev can often overcomplicate calls or needlessly split hairs? Like the "attack stop" call. It's a bit stuttery but jeez if you're calling it that fine I may have to start charging at my opponent if I see their forward momentum stop for a picosecond
Apart from the fencers, this sort of thing isn't good for people wanting to improve their refereeing. I will often watch bouts and try to match how I would call an action with how it actually gets called. If it's different I try to rewatch and understand why. Blatant mistakes can make that learning process really difficult
WTF the whole way through. Emura one didn't look that bad in real time but slowed down, it's not even close. One mistake from a ref in a 15 hit bout, maybe two very worst case is the limit at FIE level, anything more than that and the fencers must be wondering why they are there.
Whaaat is happening? Like this is really disturbing for young aspiring fencers They have to work hell hard to go to such tournaments and lose due to refereeing mistakes!! 🤔😵💫
Oh man some of the ones near the end were infuriating. 1:33 was a super clear parry riposte, 2:25 was so obviously left, and then the halt? 2:43 was either simul or right since left stopped the attack, but right's foot landed before the touch. It's been a while since I've done competitions, but this was always the most frustrating part, especially with different refs making very very different calls.
Lots of Pianfetti calls were also "dubious" at best... specially some bouts where the machine seemed to not want to register head slices.... FIE and IOC NEED to take WAY better action regarding refereeing. Not only we have egregious calls like the ones showed here, but lack of consistency with calls. This also makes the sport difficult you compete in when not only you are fencing vs your opponent, but vs a ref too, and watching this as an spectator is just... yea.
It took me until 0:25 to realize you MUST be trolling...first touch I'm like "Ehh...not what I would've called??" ... second, "What. . .?" 3rd... "Whaaat???" ...4th "WHAAAT!?" etc. etc. etc. You know what I really don't get? How do you as a highly experienced fencer sleep at night taking some of these touches? Do you have no self-respect for your own capability? I don't think i'm unique in having had a coach that vehemently discouraged garbage touches even if it might be yours. I'd understand if it were razor tight middle actions, but some of these are so obviously NOT yours it's baffling. Szilagyi and (more recently) Bazadze are among the most honest sportsmen in Sabre and somehow they manage to win Olympic Golds and/or get #1 Overall. I've seen Szilagyi risk a card to literally give away the next touch in Grand Prix final because he knows the previous call was unfair - only to be heavily applauded, and then win anyway, fair n' square. Man, I just don't get it...
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Looks like referees were under heavy drugs
saber refs always are
the most potent drug of all $$$$
Referees Milenchev and Valiyev are some of the biggest problems with reffing at the international level.
1. Both of them have some clear biases and Valiyev has been know to take part in matches with a conflict of interest
2. Milenchev will never fix his calls, regardless of how incorrect they may be
Was watching this confused as to why I thought most of these calls are really bad, it makes more sense now
Misjudgment is a serious problem.
I am a fencing player in Japan and have been having serious problems with misjudgments lately. In university student matches and in national tournaments, favoritism by referees is commonplace.
Whether in pool or tournament matches, the referees always score the national team players. They are arrogant when I protest.
I am confident that the legitimacy of the sabre competition will eventually be questioned.
There will be limits to having a single person's eyes judge the order of attacks so quickly.
And anyone who has the attitude of favoring either player is not qualified to be a referee.
You are 100% right, and if it is any consolation, it has been much the same in USA for a long time although I dare to say the fairness has improved steadily since maybe 2014-2016. Evidence of this is that more people who aren't "supposed to win" are now winning. Yet somehow, the magical biased calls always come back during Olympic qualification year, every quad. It's almost like the referees are scared to be the one to declare an Olympian/world team member the loser of a bout that could cost them their spot, because if the referee isn't 1,000% right, their career might be over. Then, though unconfirmed, I sense there is conflict of interest in the form of money when you dig deep enough - do I think referees are being directly paid to cheat? No, but 90% of top referees are also coaches, and having high-profile fencers win under their match magically opens up opportunities for them to make lots of money down the line with their own private business and connections gained, and that is historically verifiable. It's complicated and ugly.
Also does anyone feel like this compilation highlights how Milenchev can often overcomplicate calls or needlessly split hairs?
Like the "attack stop" call. It's a bit stuttery but jeez if you're calling it that fine I may have to start charging at my opponent if I see their forward momentum stop for a picosecond
I find it quite interesting that this sort of things happen with the same fencers
Apart from the fencers, this sort of thing isn't good for people wanting to improve their refereeing.
I will often watch bouts and try to match how I would call an action with how it actually gets called. If it's different I try to rewatch and understand why.
Blatant mistakes can make that learning process really difficult
This is more biased than my Canadian commentary streams
0:32 OMG!!!
WTF the whole way through. Emura one didn't look that bad in real time but slowed down, it's not even close. One mistake from a ref in a 15 hit bout, maybe two very worst case is the limit at FIE level, anything more than that and the fencers must be wondering why they are there.
I love this channel.
Please continue to upload some videos of fencing Sabre.
Very cool and informative video.
W as always
Not the refereeing tho😂
Please make a complilation only about Milenchev as a referee for Sondro Bezadze :)
Very cool
Whaaat is happening?
Like this is really disturbing for young aspiring fencers
They have to work hell hard to go to such tournaments and lose due to refereeing mistakes!!
🤔😵💫
Wowee so cool
i have no views on the refereeing stuff, but i find it quite interesting
all i have to say it:
what a beautiful outro
cool
after a bad call i find it interesting that Milanchev tries to overcomplicate the calls, so that the fencer maybe wont understand and wont complain...
❤🔥
Oh man some of the ones near the end were infuriating. 1:33 was a super clear parry riposte, 2:25 was so obviously left, and then the halt? 2:43 was either simul or right since left stopped the attack, but right's foot landed before the touch.
It's been a while since I've done competitions, but this was always the most frustrating part, especially with different refs making very very different calls.
Lots of Pianfetti calls were also "dubious" at best... specially some bouts where the machine seemed to not want to register head slices....
FIE and IOC NEED to take WAY better action regarding refereeing. Not only we have egregious calls like the ones showed here, but lack of consistency with calls. This also makes the sport difficult you compete in when not only you are fencing vs your opponent, but vs a ref too, and watching this as an spectator is just... yea.
I'm not sure of the depths of your emotions
Well if they judged calls how the rules were written then this wouldn't be an issue.
what are these refs smoking loooool?!?
It took me until 0:25 to realize you MUST be trolling...first touch I'm like "Ehh...not what I would've called??" ... second, "What. . .?" 3rd... "Whaaat???" ...4th "WHAAAT!?" etc. etc. etc.
You know what I really don't get? How do you as a highly experienced fencer sleep at night taking some of these touches? Do you have no self-respect for your own capability? I don't think i'm unique in having had a coach that vehemently discouraged garbage touches even if it might be yours. I'd understand if it were razor tight middle actions, but some of these are so obviously NOT yours it's baffling. Szilagyi and (more recently) Bazadze are among the most honest sportsmen in Sabre and somehow they manage to win Olympic Golds and/or get #1 Overall. I've seen Szilagyi risk a card to literally give away the next touch in Grand Prix final because he knows the previous call was unfair - only to be heavily applauded, and then win anyway, fair n' square. Man, I just don't get it...
How to cheat at sabre
Are you being ironic or is this what qualifies as cool sabre touches?
Slicer has been going hard on refereeing lately
The joke is all of these are pretty terrible calls
🤓👆👆
Okay lol @@Dd-ue4ct
Hey, I was looking forward to the best of sabre@@StrawBerry-ks9xe
Why is this vid called "cool saber touches"? Probably should be "bad ref calls."