I tried to keep it within permanent maps but if I was including seasonal ones Sniper's would be Wutville and no other map would even be remotely close. Thank you for the comment though!
As a sniper main, my default map setting is Swiftwater and only Swiftwater. First point/BLU spawn has a tower and some place far in the backlines. BLU snipers can snipe from spawn. Second point, just figure it out. BLU snipers can take the tower. Third point has a bush that is fun to camouflage into and snipe. BLU snipers can sneak around and snipe from anywhere. Fourth point is kind of trash, but it's fun to stop flankers and protect the engineer, benefactor to all snipers alike. BLU snipers can access the "behindlines". Fifth point is a massive, wide-open area with a sniping place decorated with Australium furniture and paintings of the greatest longshots ever and Damascus steel knives for both RED and BLU. Sixth point/final point isn't interesting, but RED can sneak around to that sniping spot on the fifth point and BLU can try to stop RED from doing that.
Fun fact to add on to the water thing in Pier. Water also blocks sentry sight-lines above and below. Meaning any submerged player can’t be seen by an unsubmerged sentry and vice versa.
While most Payload maps are really not that well suited for Scout, I really do think Pier is a good exception and is why I play him there more over koth maps. Thank you very much for the comment though!
I’d argue that for spy to be most effective, there needs to be wide flank routes with plentiful metal, and a lot of places to break sight, which harvest doesn’t really do too well.
Cont. harvest is just a little too open to consistently get away, there aren’t quite enough ammo boxes to support him, and the flank routes aren’t very good, plus it’s also usually dominated by pyros. Not the worst choice for best map, but definitely not the best map.
I would agree which is why I think there are a few CTF and Payload maps he might function a bit better in. I ended up picking Harvest though simply because I do think its at least up there for his good maps and its one I tend to do really well with him one because of the points I stated. thank you for the comment though!
I personally have found spy to be best on maps where the objective is constantly fought over, as it provides a great distraction. This means it'll be a KOTH or PL map. It can't be too open like Upwards as it will be hard to not get caught, nor too closed like Gold Rush as you will have a hard time getting behind the enemy. Larger maps are also better, as this means doing something like sapping a tele entrance is far more detrimental to the poor heavies. It needs good flanks in case the frontlines are too hard to pass, and a lot of ammo reserves, but also a lot of cover. So I'd personally say Pier is where spy is strongest (along with scout). Ammo may not be as plentiful as other maps. but a lot of it is large ammo packs.
I anticipated only well-known hyper-popular (or unpopular) maps to get chosen, but the variety of maps chosen from various eras and gamemodes of TF2 was more than i expected. Who even remembers Freight all that much anymore? Would have been amazing to see upward actually NOT picked at all, even if it was not for the class most might think of.
Sniper's map was originally going to be something like Camber or Suijin, but I ended up with Upward since it was tough to pass on a map he's so good on. Thank you for the comment though I appreciate it!
I encountered "those" Soldiers more on Process than on TM, but the points you made are definitely valid. And seeing the comments, it seems a followup could be a good idea!
Thank you! Process was another map that was immediately thought of for Soldier's part. I ended up choosing Thunder Mountain in the end but honestly both maps have their points of being his best map. Thank you for the comment!
I think that Megaton is also up there for some of his best maps, its tough to tell though because of it being so new to the game and I found being countersniped on that map is so much easier because of how much more predictable Sniper positioning is on it. still a really good Sniper contender though and I thank you for the comment!
Amazing editing as always! Interesting video concept, I'd say in general it's best to play the class you prefer or currently enjoy no matter the map, especially so you can learn to play with specific handicaps which will inevitably make you better at the game. But with the idea of trying to challenge yourself to get a certain amount of kills for example, or when trying to farm an achievement or a strange weapon, yeah I can see why you'd be looking for the best map for a class. Keep up the great content :)
I'd argue that Medic's number one job isn't healing and supporting his team but instead it is building and pushing Uber. There's plenty of overlap there, but a for a map to be the best map for Medic I think we need to take the importance of Uber into consideration too. Granted I'm mostly talking about stock Uber but the other mediguns can apply to this too. I feel like Uber is less important pushing on Altitude then some other maps, you really don't need an Uber to push into A and the typical engie nest at B can be spammed out from the roof above or the stairs below. It's only at C that there's a really strong spot for a nest that is best taken out with an Uber but even then a projectile class could flank on the mountain side and spam in or even cap outside the sentry's view. My vote for Medic's best map would probably be Barnblitz. There's plenty of open spaces where big team fights are happening and you have to focus on healing and buffing multiple players to keep your whole team supported. You're not fully safe from sniper headlines or spies sneaking in but there's still plenty of room to play that stay out of the standard sightlines. First, second and last points against a strong defense with an engineer or two almost require a good uber push to cap. A key stock Uber for Red can be invaluable to either stuff the Blu Uber push or push Blu further back to regain space or a Kritz push has crazy potential to clear out the attackers and push your team's defense forward. And holding a long last point stand on Barnblitz with a Quickfix, Vax or stock is super rewarding.
Barnblitz was an extremely close second for Medic while making this video, I suppose though I wanted to shed some light on a much less notable map and also wanted to more encompass the other less popular play styles for Medic which ended up with Altitude winning over. Still though I think both maps are really good especially with the points you made here about Barnblitz. Thank you for such a detailed comment!
Great video, not something I think of too often but still well thought out and executed nicely (especially the editing!) The only map I've really thought of of a class map would be Fastlane for Scout; relatively obscure but has a fun movement flow. One of my favorite Control Points maps along with Freight (which I was happy to see mentioned!)
Well, the Frontier Justice of the Engineer himself is one of the best weapons engi can use. So it only makes sense his best map is frontier. I ought to try that map more.
I'm a spy main I and harvest definitely is a great pick; I normally play payload because the environment is always changing and it's harder for the enemy to find my route's but most of the time however any map that is good for scout is good for spy. Those king of the hill maps like harvest definitely do provide an advantage for spy. (My opinion)
Great video! I enjoyed watching it and your points made a lot of sense. I'd say that Barnblitz is a really good map for medic. You'll almost always have at least one good player to give uber/kritz. Defending last is the funniest experience for him. He'll always be needed there. Then, Lazarus is probably one of the strongest engi maps. Just put a level 3 on top of the point and you win (that's why I avoid that map as I find camping the point lame and unfun for other players). Most koth maps are good for engi due to: his big area denial, the small map size and the most played class is usually scout. Soldier is really good on 5cp, and also hella fun. You can flank, you can spoon, you can do crazy jumps. I never have as much joy as when I see Process being selected as the next map. He's also really good on Suijin though I hate that map Heavy is really good on Borneo once you learn the map. There's lot of potential for a roamer heavy with tomislav. My highest ks was there. Though you'll probably depend a lot on teleporters. So if it was a koth map, it would probably be... I dunno. Viaduct and Kong King are really good options. Scout is best on maps with flank routes and lots of props to jump on. Maybe Highpass? I don't really play him a lot, but I feel like Foundry is really good for him. Lots of props and flanks, you can backcap easily. I think I'll leave it there. Also, can you do a "worst map for each class" (I already see Dustbowl for spy) and a "most balanced map on tf2"? I'd really love that.
A lot of these are really good picks and I thank you for such a detailed comment! Process was one of the biggest contenders for Soldier on this video and Barnblitz was actually Medic's original map in the script before I last second changed it to Altitude. Perhaps I might make the worst maps video in the future if people want to see that!
I like this video. It gives newer players the potential to try out classes in maps where the class really shines, letting em see all each class can offer and their capabilities. Keep up the good work and move that gear up a notch! 👷♂️🔧
Pier might be one of the only payload maps aside from upward and MAYBE gold rush where I can say that its a valid pick for scout. I literally managed to save a game one time on the map as scout by flanking around this big enemy encampment, doubling back to there spawn, which lead to me taking out an engineers teleporter entrance and the enemy teams medic leading us to take first which eventually caused us to win
As a Heavy main I really like Banana Bay for Heavy. It’s only really got one bad Sniper sightline, other than that it’s pretty enclosed. You get access to the payload card no matter your team, which is great, especially when you don’t have a medic. Plenty of health packs too if you wanna run shotguns instead of Sandvich. Although, I always use the banana on this map, for obvious reasons.
Really good video, I was wondering myself what would be the worst maps for each class would be. I personally struggle making scout work on dustbowl for example.
Heavy’s map being chosen to mitigate hard counters and respawn time rather than making the most of his weapons should tell you everything about the poor state of the class
As a medic main, I really really enjoy pl_borneo, there are so many escape routes littered around the map it's easy to get out of any tough situation, I've gone entire matches without dying on that map
I think he's actually still pretty good on last, in fact that's where I find a good amount of kills from because of how difficult it can be at times to spam a Sniper out from height or the windows on the BLU team's side. Thank you for the comment though! Wutville would of definitely been the better pick though if I was including seasonal maps!
@@androtti1008 didnt realize seasonal maps werent included, but ive found with offense sniper that that main hallway isnt held well enough ever too not get spammed out too much to snipe it, and so you end up sniping anyone that pushes out into the outdoor area and spychecking
this was a fun video idea and I don't really disagree with you picks (maybe spy on harvest tho) also from a map maker's perspective it's interesting to hear this perspective/talk on these maps. obvs maps should try and adhere to all classes, but hearing what makes these maps good for certain classes is useful learning exp.
I have no idea who you are, but this editing is absolutely peak and this is insanely well-produced. Plus, some of my favorite types of videos are TF2 video essays. So, yeah, looks like I'm subbing and subsequently going to watch your entire backlog
I’ve also found scout nice on the new embargo map, which despite seeming like spy paradise has been more fun on scout with how many routes tailor made four his traversal and how much verticality you’re given
Suprisingly, while some of these arn't my #1 picks, they're all either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or ambiguously the top for me. Though I havn't put as much thought into best class maps so I imagine I would iron them out overtime, great video. Subbed and liked.
Nah, pl_wutville is the best map for sniper. Because in pl_upward, at least the good spots are limited and predictable unless the sniper is doing exploits like pixel walking. While pl_wutville, the good spots for sniper is literally everywhere outside spawn, so sniper barely need to mind positioning and maintaining distances. But if the maps need to be in current casual rotation then koth_harvest, plr_hightower and koth_megaton probably win but isn't for some reason.
A lot of the maps you mentioned were definitely in the discussion for Sniper's best map, I wanted to keep it as non-seasonal maps though and also ones found in the main core category of the game which is why I ended up not picking maps like Wutville or Hightower. I figured Upward was a decent pick since it's been in the game long enough to build Sniper's fame on it and does have really good sightlines even if they can be predictable a lot of the time. Thank you for the comment!
It does fit with a lot of maps but personally I didn't think Dustbowl was one of them which is why I ended up shifting his best map to something like Egypt which is sort of the best of both worlds for the class in my opinion. I thank you though for the comment!
As a Medic main. I like stalemate maps Reason #1: I'll be behind my team, and with them being at a stalemate I am less likely to be hit Reason #2: my Uber becomes that much more valuable
As a Medic main, my favourite map has to be Borneo. From my experience, the team likes to consolidate around the healer as the map isn't very flank-oriented.
Really well produced video! You brought up great arguments for some maps I initially disagreed on, like thunder mountain or frontier. Although I gotta disagree on Egypt. I know you wanted to take all playstyles into account, but demoknight is just too different from stock demo to warrant not picking a closed-space map like dustbowl (or junction, uagh.). He's just too op on those choky maps. Also I'm happy altitude was picked for medic. While I don't really know how true that is since for me it's hard to define what makes a map good for medic (intuitively I'd also say choke-heavy maps since they basically require ubers to make something happen), I think Altitude is an underrated map that deservers more love, so thanks. And ever since summer 24, megaton will be the no. 1 sniper map. The sightlines on there are just criminal.
Scout - any CTF map except 2fort, turbine and well (and maybe double cross but there are still enough things for him to pull off there). my personal favorite is landfall. i think i never played pier, but i've seen quite a lot of it and i can confidently say that its even worse (in regard to scout supremacy) than double cross. Spy - not so confidently as with scout, but landfall and sawmill are great options again. i am not saying that they are outright the best, but they are definitely far better than the harvest
Landfall is actually a pretty good pick for Scout. the problem with him and CTF though is a lot of the time on that gamemode you will see sentries cover the entirety of key areas like the middle or the intel room where on other modes there are maps that typically have flanks allowing you to avoid a lot of it. Spy's pick though is very interchangeable which is why I fully understand your opinion and think he actually is really good on CTF too. Thank you though for the detailed comment!
@@androtti1008 tbh i forgot about possible sentries so i could agree now, but then the new CTF maps (frosty and apple jack) come into picture. though i played them very little, there is no spot for 1 sentry that fully denies all possible ways for scout and there still quite a lot of props that let him do crazy shit mid fight
Honestly, as a med main, I'd say medic does *okay* on altitude, But you should've focused more on the flank routes of the map, how they're distributed and how often the team is checking them than specifically how many escape options there is. Metalworks is pretty good, and I find it's a map I least get harassed by scouts and spies in, with plenty of places to stay back and farm uber on retreating teammates!
Harvest? For Spy? It's a close range map filled with pyros and splash damage everywhere. The key aspect of spy, tricking the enemy, the disguise is instantly blown once you are noticed and unless you go back to your defense lines you have a most wanted poster reserved for the enemy team. Harvest is only good as a secondary map for suijin/borneo tryhards
I actually love Mossrock, probably in my top 10 maps of all time. I almost picked it as Spy's best map but ended up going with something a lot more familiar. I appreciate the comment though glad to see another Mossrock enjoyer!
As a Pyro main, i'd personally disagree with picking freight. The intermitent points between mid and last have very long corridors which people most people use when being attacked by a Pyro, it makes it hard to keep them in your range and the ceiling is too low for any mobility options other than the power jack, which is bad to use in combat situations because of the damage vulnerability. I'd personally pick Emerge or Kong because the're excellent for ambushes along with plenty of combat options for Pyro, along with providing a good mix of map openess for diferent Pyro playstyles, and like you said a good balance of map openess for the class.
Since you’re only including year round maps, so Wutville is off the table, I’ll counter your Upward pick with Hoodoo. Hoodoo has some of the most unbelievably stupid sightlines in the entire game, on top of the entire map being played in these sight lines. I will attest that from personal experience, including multiple 100+ kill games, and 1000 hours of playing just Hoodoo, that it is, without question, the best map for Sniper in the game.
great concept, great video, well edited and well scripted! Happy to see quality content coming from the tf2 community (could somebody tell me the name of the song during the engineer sectuon)
This video is so high quality that I didnt even notice that it only has 1,5 mil views after I saw the top comment, great work mate, keep it up, ur gonna be the next elmaxo
I personally believe Steel is Pyro’s best map. Not a ton of big sightlines, shit ton of flank routes, and most of the fighting being close-quarters really compliments Pyro’s ambush-centric playstyle. Freight, in my opinion, doesn’t have an environment that promotes Pyro’s intended ambush-heavy playstyle, or at least not a very good one. Close-quarters is always good, but last and mid will always be Sniper city, mobility gets hindered by the trains just existing, and the best flank route being underwater is hot ass because you’re actively crippling yourself. Freight is a good Pyro map if your only objective is to patrol 2nd.
Viaduct?!?!?!?!?! FOR HEAVY?!?!?!??!! not when theres a decent sniper, it can be a bit painful even. I'd say koth, payload and even attack defend is where he shines but personally mossrock has to be one of his strongest, corridors aren't that cramled, except for a lil portion and punishing flankers is quite nice on heavy. Any map tha doesn't have too crazy open spaces or tight chokeholds has o' plenty of cover and decent yet manageable flank routes is good for heavy. Another good one would be applejack for how short and easy to navigate it is And kong king is very nice, while it does have a big sightline in the middle the flanks and enviroment offer reaaallyy good cover
9:11 am sorry but no just no meds best map is actually barnblitz because of just one simple reason LAST AS A VAC MEDIC IS THE DUMBEST THING EVER im not joking i must have stopped last pushes in this hell MORE TIMES THAN I CAN COUNT and also all this happened on uncletopia so yea its really good (also the map just has good positions for you so)
you missed the part where he said all playstyles, also pointing out meds really good on ONE part of the map is not a good reason. really anything can "stop" pushes on last there.
Barnblitz was actually the map originally written before I ended up changing it to Altitude. I think its easily one of his best maps and one he can be very impactful on, but Altitude does do a better job at building a suitable playing field for his other play styles and is much easier to avoid being sticky spammed or chased down to lose out on key ubers. regardless though both maps could of easily been his best which is why I fully agree with you!
@@androtti1008 yea i played on altitude more after this(20 rounds kill me) and i still like barn more that’s probably jut my buyest( i really don’t like altitude) but i have to agree it is objectively better
I would like to see the opposite of this video. What the worst map for each class. I image it would be somewhat hard to said dustbowl, 2fort and turbine more then once.
Justice for Frieght! Great video, glad you picked some less popular maps. While I agree Koth is great for spy, I'd argue harvest is way to open for it to be spys "best" map. While there are plenty of great flank routes and roofs to jump off, having to run in the open fields near mid to try backstab someone is a death sentence, as you either have to uncloak right behind your enemies, or be a method actor and make it through the open area without being shot. I feel a map like Kong King, with more cover as well as more diverse flank/escape routes would be much better than harvest, as you spend minimal amount of time undisguised in open areas while still having access to dynamic map geometry to work with. Too be honest, as you said, I feel it is totally dependent on your play style, and the opportunities given to you by the enemy team rather than the map, so take this with a grain of salt. Fantastic video nonetheless, you are a super underrated creator!
![[TF2] The Black Box Stigma](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/D18pEDJ_B2g/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Black Box Stigma](/img/tr.png)
![[TC2] rating every subclass in tc2](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hA3E5hRWEYc/mqdefault.jpg)
Sniper not being Wutville is crazy
i think it's better that this video only includes maps in the permanent all-year-round rotation
I tried to keep it within permanent maps but if I was including seasonal ones Sniper's would be Wutville and no other map would even be remotely close. Thank you for the comment though!
As a sniper main, my default map setting is Swiftwater and only Swiftwater. First point/BLU spawn has a tower and some place far in the backlines. BLU snipers can snipe from spawn. Second point, just figure it out. BLU snipers can take the tower. Third point has a bush that is fun to camouflage into and snipe. BLU snipers can sneak around and snipe from anywhere. Fourth point is kind of trash, but it's fun to stop flankers and protect the engineer, benefactor to all snipers alike. BLU snipers can access the "behindlines". Fifth point is a massive, wide-open area with a sniping place decorated with Australium furniture and paintings of the greatest longshots ever and Damascus steel knives for both RED and BLU. Sixth point/final point isn't interesting, but RED can sneak around to that sniping spot on the fifth point and BLU can try to stop RED from doing that.
@@androtti1008 Megaton!
We all agreed that map isn't real it can't hurt you
Fun fact to add on to the water thing in Pier.
Water also blocks sentry sight-lines above and below.
Meaning any submerged player can’t be seen by an unsubmerged sentry and vice versa.
scout being in a payload map instead of a koth map is crazy
While most Payload maps are really not that well suited for Scout, I really do think Pier is a good exception and is why I play him there more over koth maps. Thank you very much for the comment though!
I’d argue that for spy to be most effective, there needs to be wide flank routes with plentiful metal, and a lot of places to break sight, which harvest doesn’t really do too well.
Cont. harvest is just a little too open to consistently get away, there aren’t quite enough ammo boxes to support him, and the flank routes aren’t very good, plus it’s also usually dominated by pyros. Not the worst choice for best map, but definitely not the best map.
Yeah, I'd say Suijin is the best. Very small, yet fluid map and he can get to the rooftop area reliably
im a 400h spy main and i'd say harvest is a nice map, but some payloads are better.
I would agree which is why I think there are a few CTF and Payload maps he might function a bit better in. I ended up picking Harvest though simply because I do think its at least up there for his good maps and its one I tend to do really well with him one because of the points I stated. thank you for the comment though!
I personally have found spy to be best on maps where the objective is constantly fought over, as it provides a great distraction. This means it'll be a KOTH or PL map.
It can't be too open like Upwards as it will be hard to not get caught, nor too closed like Gold Rush as you will have a hard time getting behind the enemy. Larger maps are also better, as this means doing something like sapping a tele entrance is far more detrimental to the poor heavies.
It needs good flanks in case the frontlines are too hard to pass, and a lot of ammo reserves, but also a lot of cover. So I'd personally say Pier is where spy is strongest (along with scout). Ammo may not be as plentiful as other maps. but a lot of it is large ammo packs.
Its a fucking crime a video this well polished dosen't even crack 1k views
It has not even been one full day since it released.
I’m sure it’ll pick up more traction with time.
Appreciate it!
Maybe not in a day, but it will crack 10k. Although deserves 100k
it will don’t worry, videos like this age better and better over itme
Found this at 8k. The algorithm's doing its job.
this channel NEED to blow up, i love the editing and very easy to understand explanation, keep up great the work lads
Thank you!
I anticipated only well-known hyper-popular (or unpopular) maps to get chosen, but the variety of maps chosen from various eras and gamemodes of TF2 was more than i expected. Who even remembers Freight all that much anymore?
Would have been amazing to see upward actually NOT picked at all, even if it was not for the class most might think of.
Sniper's map was originally going to be something like Camber or Suijin, but I ended up with Upward since it was tough to pass on a map he's so good on. Thank you for the comment though I appreciate it!
I encountered "those" Soldiers more on Process than on TM, but the points you made are definitely valid. And seeing the comments, it seems a followup could be a good idea!
Thank you! Process was another map that was immediately thought of for Soldier's part. I ended up choosing Thunder Mountain in the end but honestly both maps have their points of being his best map. Thank you for the comment!
For Spy the best map is actually Harvest Event, because it has explosive pumpkins for surfs. :)
"Gotta get the pumpkin"
For me, Spy is better on maps with lots of verticality since nobody looks up in TF2.
Barnblitz point 3 comes to mind.
I thought Snipers best map would be Megaton, since that map is an entire sightline that you can reach in like 10 seconds
I think that Megaton is also up there for some of his best maps, its tough to tell though because of it being so new to the game and I found being countersniped on that map is so much easier because of how much more predictable Sniper positioning is on it. still a really good Sniper contender though and I thank you for the comment!
Amazing editing as always! Interesting video concept, I'd say in general it's best to play the class you prefer or currently enjoy no matter the map, especially so you can learn to play with specific handicaps which will inevitably make you better at the game. But with the idea of trying to challenge yourself to get a certain amount of kills for example, or when trying to farm an achievement or a strange weapon, yeah I can see why you'd be looking for the best map for a class. Keep up the great content :)
I agree! one's personal opinion is much more important, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
I'd argue that Medic's number one job isn't healing and supporting his team but instead it is building and pushing Uber. There's plenty of overlap there, but a for a map to be the best map for Medic I think we need to take the importance of Uber into consideration too. Granted I'm mostly talking about stock Uber but the other mediguns can apply to this too.
I feel like Uber is less important pushing on Altitude then some other maps, you really don't need an Uber to push into A and the typical engie nest at B can be spammed out from the roof above or the stairs below. It's only at C that there's a really strong spot for a nest that is best taken out with an Uber but even then a projectile class could flank on the mountain side and spam in or even cap outside the sentry's view.
My vote for Medic's best map would probably be Barnblitz. There's plenty of open spaces where big team fights are happening and you have to focus on healing and buffing multiple players to keep your whole team supported. You're not fully safe from sniper headlines or spies sneaking in but there's still plenty of room to play that stay out of the standard sightlines. First, second and last points against a strong defense with an engineer or two almost require a good uber push to cap. A key stock Uber for Red can be invaluable to either stuff the Blu Uber push or push Blu further back to regain space or a Kritz push has crazy potential to clear out the attackers and push your team's defense forward. And holding a long last point stand on Barnblitz with a Quickfix, Vax or stock is super rewarding.
Barnblitz was an extremely close second for Medic while making this video, I suppose though I wanted to shed some light on a much less notable map and also wanted to more encompass the other less popular play styles for Medic which ended up with Altitude winning over. Still though I think both maps are really good especially with the points you made here about Barnblitz. Thank you for such a detailed comment!
Great video, not something I think of too often but still well thought out and executed nicely (especially the editing!)
The only map I've really thought of of a class map would be Fastlane for Scout; relatively obscure but has a fun movement flow. One of my favorite Control Points maps along with Freight (which I was happy to see mentioned!)
Maybe I should start running Fastlane more often then, thank you for the recommendation and the comment!
Heavily agree with Pier for scout, never felt like such a menace while playing Scout
Thought that one would be a more rough pick but glad to see you agree!
Well, the Frontier Justice of the Engineer himself is one of the best weapons engi can use. So it only makes sense his best map is frontier. I ought to try that map more.
you sound like ritcher overtime
(great video btw, the editing is so good.)
Maybe we're the same person (Richter's more talented than me). Thank you though for the comment!
I'm a spy main I and harvest definitely is a great pick; I normally play payload because the environment is always changing and it's harder for the enemy to find my route's but most of the time however any map that is good for scout is good for spy. Those king of the hill maps like harvest definitely do provide an advantage for spy. (My opinion)
I agree! thank you for the comment!
Great video! I enjoyed watching it and your points made a lot of sense.
I'd say that Barnblitz is a really good map for medic. You'll almost always have at least one good player to give uber/kritz. Defending last is the funniest experience for him. He'll always be needed there.
Then, Lazarus is probably one of the strongest engi maps. Just put a level 3 on top of the point and you win (that's why I avoid that map as I find camping the point lame and unfun for other players). Most koth maps are good for engi due to: his big area denial, the small map size and the most played class is usually scout.
Soldier is really good on 5cp, and also hella fun. You can flank, you can spoon, you can do crazy jumps. I never have as much joy as when I see Process being selected as the next map. He's also really good on Suijin though I hate that map
Heavy is really good on Borneo once you learn the map. There's lot of potential for a roamer heavy with tomislav. My highest ks was there. Though you'll probably depend a lot on teleporters. So if it was a koth map, it would probably be... I dunno. Viaduct and Kong King are really good options.
Scout is best on maps with flank routes and lots of props to jump on. Maybe Highpass? I don't really play him a lot, but I feel like Foundry is really good for him. Lots of props and flanks, you can backcap easily.
I think I'll leave it there.
Also, can you do a "worst map for each class" (I already see Dustbowl for spy) and a "most balanced map on tf2"? I'd really love that.
A lot of these are really good picks and I thank you for such a detailed comment! Process was one of the biggest contenders for Soldier on this video and Barnblitz was actually Medic's original map in the script before I last second changed it to Altitude. Perhaps I might make the worst maps video in the future if people want to see that!
I like this video. It gives newer players the potential to try out classes in maps where the class really shines, letting em see all each class can offer and their capabilities. Keep up the good work and move that gear up a notch! 👷♂️🔧
Appreciate it!
This is a seriously well edited video, I really enjoyed it.
Thank you!
Pier might be one of the only payload maps aside from upward and MAYBE gold rush where I can say that its a valid pick for scout. I literally managed to save a game one time on the map as scout by flanking around this big enemy encampment, doubling back to there spawn, which lead to me taking out an engineers teleporter entrance and the enemy teams medic leading us to take first which eventually caused us to win
As a Heavy main I really like Banana Bay for Heavy. It’s only really got one bad Sniper sightline, other than that it’s pretty enclosed. You get access to the payload card no matter your team, which is great, especially when you don’t have a medic. Plenty of health packs too if you wanna run shotguns instead of Sandvich. Although, I always use the banana on this map, for obvious reasons.
HIGHLY UNDERRATED CHANNEL
Really good video, I was wondering myself what would be the worst maps for each class would be. I personally struggle making scout work on dustbowl for example.
Perhaps I'll make a worst maps video in the future. Dustbowl could definitely be a contender for some classes on there!
Heavy’s map being chosen to mitigate hard counters and respawn time rather than making the most of his weapons should tell you everything about the poor state of the class
As a medic main, I really really enjoy pl_borneo, there are so many escape routes littered around the map it's easy to get out of any tough situation, I've gone entire matches without dying on that map
i would agree with a lot of these picks, especially Frontier for engy and Viaduct for heavy
sniper being upward where the last section of the map is almost unplayable as offense vs harvest or wutville is crazy
I think he's actually still pretty good on last, in fact that's where I find a good amount of kills from because of how difficult it can be at times to spam a Sniper out from height or the windows on the BLU team's side. Thank you for the comment though! Wutville would of definitely been the better pick though if I was including seasonal maps!
@@androtti1008 didnt realize seasonal maps werent included, but ive found with offense sniper that that main hallway isnt held well enough ever too not get spammed out too much to snipe it, and so you end up sniping anyone that pushes out into the outdoor area and spychecking
W vid, underrated as hell, hope you blow up soon :)
Odyssey feels like it was designed for soldier
Was actually in my top 3 picks for Soldier when making this video!
this was a fun video idea and I don't really disagree with you picks (maybe spy on harvest tho) also from a map maker's perspective it's interesting to hear this perspective/talk on these maps. obvs maps should try and adhere to all classes, but hearing what makes these maps good for certain classes is useful learning exp.
Glad I could be a fresh perspective for you. Receiving comments from actual map makers is actually awesome!
I have no idea who you are, but this editing is absolutely peak and this is insanely well-produced. Plus, some of my favorite types of videos are TF2 video essays. So, yeah, looks like I'm subbing and subsequently going to watch your entire backlog
I’ve also found scout nice on the new embargo map, which despite seeming like spy paradise has been more fun on scout with how many routes tailor made four his traversal and how much verticality you’re given
How is this so well made bro you do not need to go this hard
Suprisingly, while some of these arn't my #1 picks, they're all either 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or ambiguously the top for me. Though I havn't put as much thought into best class maps so I imagine I would iron them out overtime, great video. Subbed and liked.
Thank you!
There's a couple choices I don't perfectly agree with, but otherwise this video is VERY based and well thought out.
Thank you!
Nah, pl_wutville is the best map for sniper. Because in pl_upward, at least the good spots are limited and predictable unless the sniper is doing exploits like pixel walking. While pl_wutville, the good spots for sniper is literally everywhere outside spawn, so sniper barely need to mind positioning and maintaining distances. But if the maps need to be in current casual rotation then koth_harvest, plr_hightower and koth_megaton probably win but isn't for some reason.
A lot of the maps you mentioned were definitely in the discussion for Sniper's best map, I wanted to keep it as non-seasonal maps though and also ones found in the main core category of the game which is why I ended up not picking maps like Wutville or Hightower. I figured Upward was a decent pick since it's been in the game long enough to build Sniper's fame on it and does have really good sightlines even if they can be predictable a lot of the time. Thank you for the comment!
Heavy=any KOTH map
I disagree as a demo main. Honestly sticky jumper and hybrid knight almost fits with any map
agree
Gully
junction
It does fit with a lot of maps but personally I didn't think Dustbowl was one of them which is why I ended up shifting his best map to something like Egypt which is sort of the best of both worlds for the class in my opinion. I thank you though for the comment!
As a Medic main. I like stalemate maps
Reason #1: I'll be behind my team, and with them being at a stalemate I am less likely to be hit
Reason #2: my Uber becomes that much more valuable
its amazing how many times i played spy good on Odyssey, more than other maps
As a Medic main, my favourite map has to be Borneo.
From my experience, the team likes to consolidate around the healer as the map isn't very flank-oriented.
i found another underrated channel like realest billy
Really well produced video! You brought up great arguments for some maps I initially disagreed on, like thunder mountain or frontier. Although I gotta disagree on Egypt. I know you wanted to take all playstyles into account, but demoknight is just too different from stock demo to warrant not picking a closed-space map like dustbowl (or junction, uagh.). He's just too op on those choky maps.
Also I'm happy altitude was picked for medic. While I don't really know how true that is since for me it's hard to define what makes a map good for medic (intuitively I'd also say choke-heavy maps since they basically require ubers to make something happen), I think Altitude is an underrated map that deservers more love, so thanks.
And ever since summer 24, megaton will be the no. 1 sniper map. The sightlines on there are just criminal.
Well made video, gud stuff!
Yo what is this quality? Chill man you don’t have enough subs to be this good
demoknight on Megaton is awesome, it's a trimp haven, so as a demoknight main I'd recommend Megaton for knight specifically
as a mapper this video was a joy to watch holy moly
I needed this video Thank you
I rarely get Freight so Pyro's best map for me is Harvest
Scout - any CTF map except 2fort, turbine and well (and maybe double cross but there are still enough things for him to pull off there). my personal favorite is landfall. i think i never played pier, but i've seen quite a lot of it and i can confidently say that its even worse (in regard to scout supremacy) than double cross.
Spy - not so confidently as with scout, but landfall and sawmill are great options again. i am not saying that they are outright the best, but they are definitely far better than the harvest
Landfall is actually a pretty good pick for Scout. the problem with him and CTF though is a lot of the time on that gamemode you will see sentries cover the entirety of key areas like the middle or the intel room where on other modes there are maps that typically have flanks allowing you to avoid a lot of it. Spy's pick though is very interchangeable which is why I fully understand your opinion and think he actually is really good on CTF too. Thank you though for the detailed comment!
@@androtti1008 tbh i forgot about possible sentries so i could agree now, but then the new CTF maps (frosty and apple jack) come into picture.
though i played them very little, there is no spot for 1 sentry that fully denies all possible ways for scout and there still quite a lot of props that let him do crazy shit mid fight
Honestly, as a med main, I'd say medic does *okay* on altitude, But you should've focused more on the flank routes of the map, how they're distributed and how often the team is checking them than specifically how many escape options there is.
Metalworks is pretty good, and I find it's a map I least get harassed by scouts and spies in, with plenty of places to stay back and farm uber on retreating teammates!
Another androtti100 banger
Harvest? For Spy? It's a close range map filled with pyros and splash damage everywhere. The key aspect of spy, tricking the enemy, the disguise is instantly blown once you are noticed and unless you go back to your defense lines you have a most wanted poster reserved for the enemy team. Harvest is only good as a secondary map for suijin/borneo tryhards
Thank you for making this video, now if I get killed I can just say that I was playing on a bad map for the class I was playing
Very underrated channel
Moss rock is the goat, unfortunately nobody plays it. That’s the problem with have 100 maps
Every class is S tier on moss rock
Perfect map
I actually love Mossrock, probably in my top 10 maps of all time. I almost picked it as Spy's best map but ended up going with something a lot more familiar. I appreciate the comment though glad to see another Mossrock enjoyer!
i agree with frontier because it was the first place i got a 20+ killstreak and the only place so far
i really should play more tf2
Brilliant video, thanks!
Frontier might be the map that's perfect for every single class IMO
As a Pyro main, i'd personally disagree with picking freight. The intermitent points between mid and last have very long corridors which people most people use when being attacked by a Pyro, it makes it hard to keep them in your range and the ceiling is too low for any mobility options other than the power jack, which is bad to use in combat situations because of the damage vulnerability. I'd personally pick Emerge or Kong because the're excellent for ambushes along with plenty of combat options for Pyro, along with providing a good mix of map openess for diferent Pyro playstyles, and like you said a good balance of map openess for the class.
Gangsterlicious is my GOAT
BANGER VIDEO??
Since you’re only including year round maps, so Wutville is off the table, I’ll counter your Upward pick with Hoodoo.
Hoodoo has some of the most unbelievably stupid sightlines in the entire game, on top of the entire map being played in these sight lines.
I will attest that from personal experience, including multiple 100+ kill games, and 1000 hours of playing just Hoodoo, that it is, without question, the best map for Sniper in the game.
Burghausen was MADE for the Lucksman
I think harvest is an okay pick, but odyssey just has so much potential for spy.
2fort snipers fear me
as they should
Thx
This is fire!
great concept, great video, well edited and well scripted! Happy to see quality content coming from the tf2 community
(could somebody tell me the name of the song during the engineer sectuon)
As a spy main I can say with 100% certainty that 2fort and harvest are not good maps for spy
demoman's best map is degroo keep tho, change my mind
real ones know Degroot Keep is his peak
Commenting for algorithm this video needs to be seen by more people!
no, come on. we all know the best sniper map is wutville
Wutville is easily his best and would of been included if I was counting seasonal maps!
Now what is the best map for ALL classes?
Trying to pick one single map for every class out of TF2s HUGE map-pool is obviously insanely hard. But Pier for Scout... Like...
yeah also disagree with scout on pier. Last and 3rd point are VERY anti scout if you have one good engi in the enemy team
DUSTBOWL IS BEST MAP
This video is so high quality that I didnt even notice that it only has 1,5 mil views after I saw the top comment, great work mate, keep it up, ur gonna be the next elmaxo
thank you!
should get more views
Wow The video was amazing I expected it to have more views
I personally believe Steel is Pyro’s best map. Not a ton of big sightlines, shit ton of flank routes, and most of the fighting being close-quarters really compliments Pyro’s ambush-centric playstyle.
Freight, in my opinion, doesn’t have an environment that promotes Pyro’s intended ambush-heavy playstyle, or at least not a very good one. Close-quarters is always good, but last and mid will always be Sniper city, mobility gets hindered by the trains just existing, and the best flank route being underwater is hot ass because you’re actively crippling yourself. Freight is a good Pyro map if your only objective is to patrol 2nd.
Algorithm give this man views and my life is yours
Wish I could like a video twice ngl.
Scouts best map is payload even though scout usually sucks ass on payload. I was gonna say harvest was his best but i agree on pier now
Viaduct?!?!?!?!?! FOR HEAVY?!?!?!??!! not when theres a decent sniper, it can be a bit painful even.
I'd say koth, payload and even attack defend is where he shines but personally mossrock has to be one of his strongest, corridors aren't that cramled, except for a lil portion and punishing flankers is quite nice on heavy.
Any map tha doesn't have too crazy open spaces or tight chokeholds has o' plenty of cover and decent yet manageable flank routes is good for heavy.
Another good one would be applejack for how short and easy to navigate it is
And kong king is very nice, while it does have a big sightline in the middle the flanks and enviroment offer reaaallyy good cover
Megaton is sniper
I think this video is good👨🍳👨🍳👨🍳👨🎤👨🎤👨🎤🎃🎃🎃🤫🤫🤫🧏♂️🧏♂️🧏♂️🧏♂️
0:18 blur is so aestheticlaly displeasing :/
9:11 am sorry but no just no
meds best map is actually barnblitz because of just one simple reason
LAST AS A VAC MEDIC IS THE DUMBEST THING EVER
im not joking i must have stopped last pushes in this hell MORE TIMES THAN I CAN COUNT and also all this happened on uncletopia so yea its really good
(also the map just has good positions for you so)
you missed the part where he said all playstyles, also pointing out meds really good on ONE part of the map is not a good reason. really anything can "stop" pushes on last there.
Barnblitz was actually the map originally written before I ended up changing it to Altitude. I think its easily one of his best maps and one he can be very impactful on, but Altitude does do a better job at building a suitable playing field for his other play styles and is much easier to avoid being sticky spammed or chased down to lose out on key ubers. regardless though both maps could of easily been his best which is why I fully agree with you!
@@androtti1008 yea i played on altitude more after this(20 rounds kill me) and i still like barn more that’s probably jut my buyest( i really don’t like altitude) but i have to agree it is objectively better
Algorithm comment
Algorithm comment #2
Scout is not a pick class
What's your hud?
ahud
woa, underrated youtuba? dont mind if i sub for more tf2 tips i wont even use
gru
I would like to see the opposite of this video. What the worst map for each class. I image it would be somewhat hard to said dustbowl, 2fort and turbine more then once.
Justice for Frieght! Great video, glad you picked some less popular maps. While I agree Koth is great for spy, I'd argue harvest is way to open for it to be spys "best" map. While there are plenty of great flank routes and roofs to jump off, having to run in the open fields near mid to try backstab someone is a death sentence, as you either have to uncloak right behind your enemies, or be a method actor and make it through the open area without being shot. I feel a map like Kong King, with more cover as well as more diverse flank/escape routes would be much better than harvest, as you spend minimal amount of time undisguised in open areas while still having access to dynamic map geometry to work with. Too be honest, as you said, I feel it is totally dependent on your play style, and the opportunities given to you by the enemy team rather than the map, so take this with a grain of salt. Fantastic video nonetheless, you are a super underrated creator!