I've noticed a lot of my losses could have been wins if I had been more willing and open to adapt to evolving situations instead of trying to prematurely grasp the first possible win con
And I quote Happy Chaos, "I don't care about winning, I'm here for the pleasure. Not of the fight, but of you." As long as my deck gets to do its thing, and I'm not helpless or crippled due to poor deck construction or luck, I'm peachy. It's people getting along and showing off their cool stuffs that excites me.
It's like my zombie deck. I just love seeing it in action. I understand a resolved rest in peace would borderline remove me from the game, and I totally accept that kind of weakness. Hilariously though, as long as i'm not getting starved or flooded, I'm probably just enjoying the gears spin.
@@bobby45825 The people are the most important, if they are cordial and reasonable, anything goes! I recently pulled off a 5C poison storm combo on my friends. I had 3 copies of Swarm Intelligence in play (thanks to Mirrormade and Myth of Illuna), I played Thousand-year Storm and Regrowth my Myth of Illuna, turn cast it on Thousand-year Storm, resulting in 5 copies of it. Dug deep with Mystic Confluence, and exploded with Caress of Phyrexia. Was a blast. Always wanted to play storm, but wanted something outside burn or mill. My playgroup's power level is somewhat below Game Knight's.
How can you not talk about the infamous “math is for blockers” during Too Cocky? Feels like a missed opportunity. LOVED this episode, though. Definitely gonna share with some friends. 🙌🏻
My favorites games are the ones where I end-up second place after dominating most of the game. I really dislike playing tutor, tutor, combo/win. I wanna do big, splashy, powerful play's, I LOVE the Shock-and-Awe moments...
Counted the number of “you know”s Craig said in the episode and it is 117 for anyone wondering. Assuming Craig talked for about 25 minutes in this episode, that’s 4.68 “ya know”s per minute
Not sure if this has been pointed out, but. The graphic at 9:08 is actually communicating the exact opposite of what you were trying to say. The base of the pyramid is for the absolute mandatory fundamentals, like food and water. Basically the person that image is describing, if they lost, they would start crying and screaming.
Love the "is my deck built to win versus my deck can win" discussion there, I have a sahili the gifted deck that wants to cast big fireballs, if I do that and I happen to kill my opponents while doing so great, but generally speaking even if I don't win I'm pretty satisfied as long as I got to cast an x spell where x was at least 15
yeah I think that's a really important talking point, and it kind of ties into rule 0 as well. You might be playing to win but if your deck isn't built to win, you're not going to feel satisfied. Likewise if you're playing with someone else whose deck is built to win, that could be why you're losing
Congrats Craig! I found out today that I am having my second boy 👦. I hope you enjoy parenthood as much as I. I have loved being a dad so far, and my first little boy, Hugo, asks to see my dinosaur and angel decks daily. I cant wait to teach him the ways of the game and of course this content
What affects my fun level is just sitting there for 20 minutes while someone else goes thru their infinite wincon. It's happened so much lately that I have decided to embrace the blue so at least I can do something during this time instead of asking 'you win yet?' over and over again :-)
To your point, many players including friends I've seen are turning to anti combo decks which is more indicative of the game design I think. Its to the point where everyone is either comboing or building to stop combos. Seems like every set has a combo piece for some old card coming out and its to the point now where if you aren't using infinite combos to win you simply won't
@@breakingtide At cEDH tables, definitely. Those games are basically just Legacy, where it's "Are you playing Blue? No? Are you playing Combo then?" and that's it; there are no other viable alternatives. I'd love to see more stax decks but they just don't seem popular.
Hi fantastic episode. One thought I got when I listened that can be an interesting part is that you are not meant to win every game. If we strive to have fun and equally good decks, you should only win a quarter of the games. And with this thought, it can be easy to end up in the thought that I never win because you often remember bad things easier than a good.
I know for me something I did to stop losing so much in general was just to start watching more magic content. Whether casual, competitive, or even just paying attention to how other players play out their turn, knowing my matchups and what cards do in the right hands really helped me to become a better player, which meant losing a lot less than I used to. Hope that helps! Merry xmas everyone!😁
NGL, I really wished they talked about the price gap. Some players don’t have the disposable income to buy these expensive cards, both in quality to keep up against stronger players and in quantity to buy more cards and play with versatility. Like when they casually just play a $500+ dual land, the price gap becomes super apparent. Not everyone has had a chance, per say, to die by mana crypt. I would love it if they had an episode of GK or ET where they had budgets imposed on their deck designs.
Learning my decks definitely helped me win a LOT more. When you can't play against people often enough to get real data, i solitaire my decks against each other. I play test decks against my most consistent deck to get an idea how well the handle combos/slight control and it has increased my win rate and deck building skills. Also congrats!
Love that Mr. Infect is an awesome human and a real solid dude. Thanks for sharing the IVF struggles and congratulations on the babies! I’m think Yawgmoth for the boy and Atraxa for the girl.
As someone who feels that winning is a big part of one's motivation to play, I am actually cool with the idea of losing in Commander. In a table of four, you only have a default 25% chance to win. In a duel, you will win 50% of the games you play against an equally skilled player anyway so my personal goal is to at least not be the first to get eliminated in a Commander game. Anything above that would be gravy in addition to just being able to hang out and having fun with friends.
There's also the random elements of top decks, bluffing, sandbagging, etc. I had a game last week where I was playing an elf deck and friend of mine playing azorious enchantments. We both drew so many cards and had stalemate boardstates to each other that my friend hilariously killed us both with a Windfall while I had 53 cards in hand. The last 2 players in the game played it out and we were all laughing. It was a crazy unpredictable game and it's hilarious losing with a double K.O. like that. I also had 250+ life too.
The one thing that I noticed that the commander you play or even your overall reputation does play a part. I have played decks with well-known commanders and players can overreact and as a result you lose very quickly or just get locked out. While your reputation as a player does affect the environment. An example you play mill, discard, infect or steal cards, most likely people will target you because your well known to play those strategies. Power level also affect this aswell. If your known to play higher power decks, players can be worried that you will control the game or even win very quickly so they think your a threat when your doing nothing or playing a deck that was designed around the power level. This episode does show how important it is to learn from your mistake and learn from this episode.
I think that's why rule 0 is important. I'd everyone is closely equal in skill and deck power is pretty balanced then no targeting should occur because everything is a threat at the table.
37:00 one of the best things that work in our meta is 'if you win, next game pick a deck that's powered-down. If you lose, for next game feel free to pick a deck that's powered-up'. It works surprisingly well.
The thing I like most in Commander (not winning) is being involved. In Magic, I can play on other peoples turn! I'm not a blue player, but my mono-green Yeva, Natures Herald deck is one of my favorites for this reason. I'm constantly reading, evaluating, planning, biding my time, and talking to people. It feels great having the answer at the right time or influencing the other players in general. Playing at sorcery speed means that you have to watch other people play magic until it comes back to you, which is way less fun to me.
Firstly, congrats Craig! One thing I’ve done is make sure that I’m more focused when building. I build to a specific strategy and sometimes incorporate a secondary strategy that I parallels the first. Tertiary strategies or a second secondary strategy just wrecks the deck synergy. When I do get to play, I’m usually the winner or the first out because I want to be the villain of the table. It’s like the archenemy, but there is a difference. The good villain progresses the game along. They take whatever value thing you thought you were doing and says no, we’re doing this instead, usually taking damage of some sort. I like to be a threat and don’t take offense should it turn into 3 vs 1. That means I’m doing my job. I really think lifegain is undervalued. I built a Licia deck that has gigantic life swings and it catches a lot of people off guard. That’s a big part of why I love building Mardu decks, I don’t fall into the same standard tactics and strategies and get to use cards you’ve probably never heard of and don’t have an answer to. My “least powerful” deck is Karona, but she might be my “least fun” to play against. She’s a Voltron strategy that basically controls your attack phase. She’s not the sort to pop off turn four, but if you’re not careful, she can be very VERY oppressive. The main problem with her is protecting the pieces that prevent a crack back, as three attacks, buffed with her ability, on an otherwise empty board is enough to knock someone out via commander damage. I really want to test out my new Queen Marchesa deck that does something similar. It’s forces combat using Maddening Imp, Fumiko the Lowblood, Angel’s Trumpet or the like. Attack an opponent and you’re good. Attack me, however, and you’ll be… punished. I use the monarch and cards like Coveted Jewel as an enticement to attack me anyways. As for politics, I don’t engage much with them. Again, I’m usually trying to get them to gang up on me. I do have a couple cards in each deck that I can use as political levers. For instance, what would you agree to if I could save you from dying?
The biggest reason for me is when I have the chance to pull out a win, I hesitate. Like when I have the chance to tutor for a win con or can pull off a combo, in the back of mind is, "Well that's not super fun for everyone else. Let me grab something else to do something cool but not necessarily win."
@@betamite I'm not pulling punches, per se. Like how would you know I'm pulling punches unless I told you? It's just a subconscious thing I do because I've had some bad experiences with playgroups where I've won via combos and anything outside of combat based wins cause so really intense feel bars.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING if ive played against your deck before and I know generally whats in it and see your purposefully avoiding grabbing the right choice for a situation I’d feel patronized by that. Like if the whole board was full of artifacts and enchantments and I knew you had a bane of progress in the deck but you decide to tutor something else I’d feel annoyed that you feel like you need to go easy on me.
@@betamite Well I'd still do that, I'm not saying I purposefully avoid winning and setting people back. But if it's like I have the opportunity to go from 0 board state to win in one turn while everyone is still trying to set up I won't. If it's late game and we've been through a board wipe or two and there has been some good back forth I'll go for the win. But if it's like turn 5 and I can win and people are still trying to set up and haven't done anything I'll usually go for something other than my infinite combo or win now combo.
I actually do the same if i won the previous game. 🤔 1 win per evening is enough. Unless it's a very competitive playgroup, then i just assume they don't bother if someone wins multiple times.
What have you done to loose less? - playing at least 36 lands no matter what - having decks of each power level - increase the amount of 2 cmc draw spells - at least 6 instant removals or counter plays per deck - a couple surprising cards like inkshield - no slow tutors (3 cmc or more) - only a few cards with no immediate impact, less than 5 per deck - no win more card - only a few very threatening cards like doubling season and improving the timing of them - no craterhoof wincon so my playgroup is less scared
We all like to win our share, I think, but I love seeing a deck go off, even when it's not mine. When you have a range of decks, some decks want to win and others like to grind or durdle towards a wincon (and will lose to decks going for the win mostly) as the power level varies. I have fun, win or lose, unless I didn't like the deck. I tend to prefer aggro to control, and sometimes favor janky wincons, like this deck wants to win by bouncing/flickering Omnath, Locus of the Roil and recasting it with a bunch of elementals on the field. Great episode, guys!
I loved this one so much because it just speaks to me on so many levels. As someone who got into Magic/Commander because of the artworks and designs on the cards it really reflects on how I like to build my decks by making them functional but still VERY flavourful. So no, I don't win a lot of games but telling a story through my deck or playing new cards that fit the theme makes me super giddy and happy. I also don't mind losing and am always happy to take the opportunity to learn. On the other hand what used to make me a bit salty is bad threat assesment as in killing my commander on sight because it is/was a strong card in another format while it is actually quite tame here. But thankfully we figured that out in our playgroup so it doesn't really happen anymore.
Friend relatively recently freaked out because he was taken out after making a new zombie deck... been trying to tell him all of these things to have a better time and effectively play better. Absolutely love this episode and wish he cared enough to watch//have a supercut exist so reinforce the points to really make the game more fun rather than just win//making the "perfect" deck.
My Jeska, warrior adept deck. Jeska suited up with blackblade reforged, sword of body and mind, and grafted exoskeleton, with Kediss on board and a Simic player to target.
I recently had a game where I actively contributed to keeping the most threatening player (With an Aesi deck) alive, so everyone had a target other than me. We then proceeded to pick off 2 players until it came down to a 1v1 where I was able to assemble a combo win. I really shouldnt have won that game, my deck had bad matchups all around, but sometimes putting your opponents against each other can give you just enough time and ressources to win :)
One of my favourite decks doesn't win, it threatens to win. But that's the point. It LOOKS threatening a lot of the time and people throw removal at it and everyone feels great to have defeated the Boss. I love RPing the arch enemy for a while and getting everyone to come together to overthrow me. Sometimes losing is winning 😃
In my experience the biggest reason to be on a long losing streak is not having an appropriately powered deck for the playgroup. Having a variety of decks at different power levels to switch between can be very helpful. If you are stuck with a bunch of wealthy Cedh people don't feel bad to just proxy what you need After all it should be about deck building and play skill, not the size of your bank account LOL.
I started playing MTG during New Phyrexia, so I’ve been in love with Infect since day 1. On that note, my number 1 commander is now Fynn the Fangbearer and dubbed it Mr Infect after Craig.
Anyone who says they don't care about winning . . . Why are you watching this episode? The better way to say it is that you don't care about winning every game, but you do care about winning
The hierarchy of needs example is backwards. Maslows Hierarchy doesn't rank needs in order of importance with the most important on TOP. It ranks the most important on the BOTTOM, with each level going up only being achieved if the level below it has been met. With the chart Command Zone gave, they are saying that "Having fun" can only happen if you have FIRST had a desire to win. [You can't for instance meet Self-actualization needs UNTIL basic physiological needs like food / sleep are met]
my favorite take on this was from an episode of playing with power i watched. in cedh, even if you play really well, a deck in the meta, in a pod of people who know what they’re doing, and you play 3 games every friday, you might go an entire month without winning just by chance!
I hate loosing so i built a urza deck and it wins a lot and i ranked 48 at the cedh world championships in Denmark and i am only fourteen years old and i am currently working on upgrading my urza list and i have considered starting a yt channel on all the aspects on edh both with proxy's and without i would just ask before i went you know all in on it what the community thinks😊😊
I like to fight hard to win - it's the process of fighting the hardest I can to win no matter the circumstance. It has much less to do with the result and more with the process itself
another thing i learned was when i built a quasi najeela deck. i consistently lost because i would just “go for it” or cast najeela at completely inappropriate times and just get board wiped or countered when i could have easily avoided that. just learning to be patient flipped that switch!
you should of mentioned the art of being second best. similar to your not coming on too strong early, it's the concept of deploying things just under the highest power on the board. this insulates you from removal and leads to a dominant position later often.
When deck building, not putting in enough finishers, ramp and draw to get there, or protection against interaction appropriate to the power level and threat types you expect to face. When playing, revealing a combo piece too soon unless you expect to die if you don't take the risk of exposing it. Also, not directing other players attention to opponents' combo pieces, value engines, and the tutoring/draw they've done. Also, using sorcery speed removal on a strong permanent that that will invite retribution from its controller, when you could instead get the controller to to use it mainly or only on one of your opponents. Using scarce removal too early so that you don't waste mana. Also not bluffing removal to deter attacks.
I suggest building and piloting your decks in MTG forge. Can get a decent feel for how your deck plays against different deck types. How your draws feel and any substitutions you could make to improve the deck if some cards underperform. In general just understand how and why the deck does what it does.
I think it's most important to assess the possibility for removal before trying to make your game-winning play. I won a game where someone was handing out cards with the new Selvala and I kept flipping lands while everyone else revealed counterspells I could wait for them to use. Using these kinds of small bits of free information and waiting for mana to be tapped has been a great boon for me in the past.
Here’s my thing about this and I’m actually on a huge losing streak. Winning 100% isn’t fun, HOWEVER what I really don’t enjoy is losing first every game. No matter what deck, boardstate, deals I’ve had or made my playgroup targets me out of the game. All removal is pointed my way and I’m only the one only attacked until I’m out of the game. This isn’t fun and looking for a new play group.
I've got a similar problem. But mine is because whenever we play my knowledge is what causes me to be the target. The other player who's in my group just has ridiculous game luck so whenever he or targeted just held him
Really enjoyed this episode, very interesting and thought provoking subject matters. Makes me take note that some aspects of my game, that I can improve! Nicely done with this one boys! P. S congratulations Craig!
"Am I trying to win?" and "Does winning/losing effect my fun level?" are not the same question. I think Craig touched on this but not enough. I am a competitive person. When I start a game, I don't care if I have the jankiest deck ever or how casual the playgroup is, I am trying to win. The process of trying to win is what makes games fun for me, but whether or not I actually win does not affect that fun level.
A lot of my losses were usually attributed to bad card inclusions, usually based around how "cool" or "fun" the card seemed, just general inexperience with a new deck, or just learning where the cracks are in my deck based on what my friends bring to the table.
The two most common reasons I’ve seen: -Going full Dunning-Kruger when it comes to the game in general -Not running enough interaction Other than that, its a game with a heavy luck factor, so, you’re bound to lose from time to time...
Congrats to Craige on becoming a dad... Sheoldred and Urabrask Blanchette are some good choices for kids names I'm sure the other kids will love them! :D
I win more than I should statistically, part of the reason why I think that is is because I seek out content like this, and I take it to heart. But these are the main things: The difference between running 36 lands and 34 is huge. The difference is even bigger from 34 and 32. Another thing is that card draw is more important than tutors if your deck is built with enough synergy and interaction. You shouldn't need to tutor for an answer if you have a sufficient amount of card draw. and if you do tutor for an answer you are 2 for 1ing yourself. Basically be prepared so you can play proactively, not reactively. Lastly, try and get to a point where most of the non land cards in your deck have some sort of synergy with your commander, or can act as a replacement for your commander. That way if it gets incapacitated somehow your gameplay doesn't lose steam.
Regarding rule zero conversation... I had one a while ago where we all agreed to play our "dirty bastard" decks. It was a lot of fun because we all had the expectation that things would get evil and nasty. I think that's what rule zero conversations are really about, avoiding unpleasant surprises.
I won with my home brew Sedris deck when I was dead on board. Stone Fangs drained my opponent for 1, they were at six. Unearthed my Hellkite Courser (after casting Sedris) and swung in for exactly 6. I also won with my modified Kathril Precon but I forget how. Those were the only ways I won at my LGS
I play in a weekly commander league that runs 12 week seasons for points and prizes. It frowns on cEDH level, but encourages everyone to play at an 8-9 level if you want to compete. Going in knowing the expectations helps a lot.
Biggest thing for me is just running through game iterations. Too many players just build deck after deck and don’t play them but 1-2 times. I’ve been working on/playing some of lists for 6-7 years. I know exactly what my decks can and can’t do in a given situation. That has directly led to more and more wins
Last night I knew I was going to die and lose, so I decided to make that death interesting!!!! Instead of killing another player I left him on 1 health.... that round became the most fun round of mantic negotiations on who should attack who, what could happen if someone lived or died, 10 min later we had a winner and everyone sat there loving it!!! Moral of the story, its not about winning, it's about playing magic in the most enjoyable way for everyone
I prefer Cedh because I am not responsible for everyone’s level of fun. Everyone understands we will all play to win at all costs. This does not mean we cannot team up against someone that is in the lead, but that type of partnership tends to dissolve quickly as a new leader arises. Cedh players appreciate and acknowledge brilliant play, and will usually congratulate someone that makes a great play regardless of how that play stopped the one currently attempting to win. Better sportsmanship is a lot easier to come by when everyone understands that there are no holds barred. If you don’t win the game you brush it off and shuffle up for the next game.
On the topic of of playing slowly to avoid becoming archenemy, definitely be careful of gaining a reputation for coming from behind to win. I've developed that reputation and it results in me being pummeled even when I actually am low on resources! Sometimes I have to offer deals to promise not to play cards I don't even have in my hand...
If you cascade into Doomsday turn five with no win-con pile you assuredly loose. BUT, the tension and excitement around the table as you die hilariously is the BEST.
I am 100% in the "I'm trying to have a fun and interesting game" camp with almost no concern for winning. I want to get my "achievement unlocked" goals that seldom have anything to do with winning. Still enjoying the video though because I do need to actually put some wincons in some of my decks that currently have no plan beyond durdle.
My beautiful baby girl is an IVF baby... we are so thankful for the people in our lives that helped us accomplish our dream of being parents. @CraigBlanchette Congratulations!
For a long time I played decks in a way where I went off super early on, died for it, then my other friends would win after every game due to blue bullcrap. I found there are two solutions to this problem, one being when you go off you win that turn, or you just play more carefully and assess your options. That's my experience at least
i always keep an alt wincon. whether thats a simple combo or mass damage. it does help especially when you hit that wall when playing staxy players. also i love interaction/removal. ive become way more of a control player over the years but i just love having the answers and ive been stuck in way too many pods that no else did have any answers. stopping other people win is always the best way to win.
I actually noticed I win way more than the rest of the players in my playgroup. I've started to analyse the situation and I realised that the decks I build are way more powerfull than my opponents. I decided to build some weaker decks to play with my friends to keep the fun in the group. Losing your share of the games is very important for everyone to have fun!!!
The most important thing is: If you are going to get ahead of the other players you have to own it. If you're not ready to tackle the other players at the table then you should play more defensively because of course they are going to try and deal with you. If you become arch enemy it is because you most likely put yourself in that spot, but that's okay. Because if that happens you should be player who is the closest to win.
9 times out of 10 I can tell how I lost(usually due to overextension) but there's always that 1 time that I have no idea how I've lost other then it had to be due to the "Heart of the Cards" working for my opponent(s).
I have a friend who will just focus on you if you just play the game like assess a threat he has and if you blow it up he just will go after you over something small like the tap diamonds so our group does a fine dance of maneuvering around this.
I screwed myself for this. When my group first started playing, I already had a bunch of optimized decks for 2 player games so I tended to win really fast. They had pre builds. Now they have built good decks and I tend to lose the first have dozen games of the night
436 is not the number of the episode but the times Craig said "You know"
(At 11:00 he starts an insane combo)
Hooooly, we found Craig's filler words
i just was noticing that and come to here to check if somebody else notice it.
I also noticed and came to see if anyone had commented about it.
Damn, give him the combo breaker PLEASE.
I laughed out loud at the doubles, haha
I've noticed a lot of my losses could have been wins if I had been more willing and open to adapt to evolving situations instead of trying to prematurely grasp the first possible win con
And I quote Happy Chaos, "I don't care about winning, I'm here for the pleasure. Not of the fight, but of you."
As long as my deck gets to do its thing, and I'm not helpless or crippled due to poor deck construction or luck, I'm peachy.
It's people getting along and showing off their cool stuffs that excites me.
It's like my zombie deck. I just love seeing it in action. I understand a resolved rest in peace would borderline remove me from the game, and I totally accept that kind of weakness. Hilariously though, as long as i'm not getting starved or flooded, I'm probably just enjoying the gears spin.
@@bobby45825 The people are the most important, if they are cordial and reasonable, anything goes!
I recently pulled off a 5C poison storm combo on my friends. I had 3 copies of Swarm Intelligence in play (thanks to Mirrormade and Myth of Illuna), I played Thousand-year Storm and Regrowth my Myth of Illuna, turn cast it on Thousand-year Storm, resulting in 5 copies of it.
Dug deep with Mystic Confluence, and exploded with Caress of Phyrexia.
Was a blast. Always wanted to play storm, but wanted something outside burn or mill.
My playgroup's power level is somewhat below Game Knight's.
How can you not talk about the infamous “math is for blockers” during Too Cocky? Feels like a missed opportunity.
LOVED this episode, though. Definitely gonna share with some friends. 🙌🏻
Classic Jimmy wong tactics “math is for blockers” how many episodes of game knights have been thrown away to people saying math is for blockers
1000% thought Professor would be part of the episode 😂😂😂
Shots fired😂
He lost the match that determined who would get to host this one.
All said tho prof is my favorite underdog
@@jarrenberrett8381 nah bro I didn’t mean it like that 😂😂😂🙈🙈🙈 real shit though Prof is my dude. He’s one of my favorite people when it comes to MtG
@@leveloct882 facts 💯💯
My favorites games are the ones where I end-up second place after dominating most of the game. I really dislike playing tutor, tutor, combo/win. I wanna do big, splashy, powerful play's, I LOVE the Shock-and-Awe moments...
Non-land tutors just make EDH incredibly lame. Unless you're in a cEDH pod, I personally find it hard to justify.
I get knocked out fast all because of one artifact that people hate or ramp hard
In the end magic is a hobby for fun. Whatever makes you have the most fun
Agreed. This is tabletop bro. Relax. Save it for gp lol.
Me, an intellectual: well, I’ve never lost a game cause I have no friends to lose against
Also because I build decks all year and never go out to the gameshop to play them...
Outstanding move
*cries in goldfishing commander decks against myself*
One artifact got me banned by ppl I use to call friends but I barely get chance to use it
That is an alpha move
Counted the number of “you know”s Craig said in the episode and it is 117 for anyone wondering.
Assuming Craig talked for about 25 minutes in this episode, that’s 4.68 “ya know”s per minute
Not sure if this has been pointed out, but. The graphic at 9:08 is actually communicating the exact opposite of what you were trying to say. The base of the pyramid is for the absolute mandatory fundamentals, like food and water.
Basically the person that image is describing, if they lost, they would start crying and screaming.
Love the "is my deck built to win versus my deck can win" discussion there, I have a sahili the gifted deck that wants to cast big fireballs, if I do that and I happen to kill my opponents while doing so great, but generally speaking even if I don't win I'm pretty satisfied as long as I got to cast an x spell where x was at least 15
yeah I think that's a really important talking point, and it kind of ties into rule 0 as well. You might be playing to win but if your deck isn't built to win, you're not going to feel satisfied. Likewise if you're playing with someone else whose deck is built to win, that could be why you're losing
Congrats Craig! I found out today that I am having my second boy 👦. I hope you enjoy parenthood as much as I. I have loved being a dad so far, and my first little boy, Hugo, asks to see my dinosaur and angel decks daily. I cant wait to teach him the ways of the game and of course this content
What affects my fun level is just sitting there for 20 minutes while someone else goes thru their infinite wincon. It's happened so much lately that I have decided to embrace the blue so at least I can do something during this time instead of asking 'you win yet?' over and over again :-)
To your point, many players including friends I've seen are turning to anti combo decks which is more indicative of the game design I think. Its to the point where everyone is either comboing or building to stop combos. Seems like every set has a combo piece for some old card coming out and its to the point now where if you aren't using infinite combos to win you simply won't
Long drawn out turns are not something I like to see at the table. Because of it I am trying to make my turns cleaner and faster myself.
If you know that they are infinite and you don't have any responses why not just concede, and play a new game?
I just lose to Xenagos, God of Revels with one creature that does +20 damage in one hit
@@breakingtide At cEDH tables, definitely. Those games are basically just Legacy, where it's "Are you playing Blue? No? Are you playing Combo then?" and that's it; there are no other viable alternatives. I'd love to see more stax decks but they just don't seem popular.
Hi fantastic episode. One thought I got when I listened that can be an interesting part is that you are not meant to win every game. If we strive to have fun and equally good decks, you should only win a quarter of the games. And with this thought, it can be easy to end up in the thought that I never win because you often remember bad things easier than a good.
CRAIG IS GONNA BE A DAAAAD OMGGG 😭😭😭 BEST OF LUCK TO YOUR FAMILY CRAIG AND MAY YOU ALL BE COMPLEAT
What a pretty family this will be. Daddy will be so proud of his kids, Vorinclex and Sheoldred Infect.
I know for me something I did to stop losing so much in general was just to start watching more magic content. Whether casual, competitive, or even just paying attention to how other players play out their turn, knowing my matchups and what cards do in the right hands really helped me to become a better player, which meant losing a lot less than I used to. Hope that helps! Merry xmas everyone!😁
NGL, I really wished they talked about the price gap. Some players don’t have the disposable income to buy these expensive cards, both in quality to keep up against stronger players and in quantity to buy more cards and play with versatility.
Like when they casually just play a $500+ dual land, the price gap becomes super apparent. Not everyone has had a chance, per say, to die by mana crypt.
I would love it if they had an episode of GK or ET where they had budgets imposed on their deck designs.
Learning my decks definitely helped me win a LOT more. When you can't play against people often enough to get real data, i solitaire my decks against each other. I play test decks against my most consistent deck to get an idea how well the handle combos/slight control and it has increased my win rate and deck building skills. Also congrats!
Love that Mr. Infect is an awesome human and a real solid dude. Thanks for sharing the IVF struggles and congratulations on the babies! I’m think Yawgmoth for the boy and Atraxa for the girl.
As someone who feels that winning is a big part of one's motivation to play, I am actually cool with the idea of losing in Commander. In a table of four, you only have a default 25% chance to win. In a duel, you will win 50% of the games you play against an equally skilled player anyway so my personal goal is to at least not be the first to get eliminated in a Commander game. Anything above that would be gravy in addition to just being able to hang out and having fun with friends.
There's also the random elements of top decks, bluffing, sandbagging, etc. I had a game last week where I was playing an elf deck and friend of mine playing azorious enchantments. We both drew so many cards and had stalemate boardstates to each other that my friend hilariously killed us both with a Windfall while I had 53 cards in hand. The last 2 players in the game played it out and we were all laughing. It was a crazy unpredictable game and it's hilarious losing with a double K.O. like that. I also had 250+ life too.
20:57 timing is everything. Yes exactly and most new (and some veteran) players rush their combo, aggro or counter plays and wonder why they lost
The one thing that I noticed that the commander you play or even your overall reputation does play a part. I have played decks with well-known commanders and players can overreact and as a result you lose very quickly or just get locked out. While your reputation as a player does affect the environment. An example you play mill, discard, infect or steal cards, most likely people will target you because your well known to play those strategies.
Power level also affect this aswell. If your known to play higher power decks, players can be worried that you will control the game or even win very quickly so they think your a threat when your doing nothing or playing a deck that was designed around the power level.
This episode does show how important it is to learn from your mistake and learn from this episode.
I think that's why rule 0 is important. I'd everyone is closely equal in skill and deck power is pretty balanced then no targeting should occur because everything is a threat at the table.
Winning or losing doesn’t affect me, but I like playing well. If I play well and lose, that’s great, but if I play bad and still win… feels rubbish
37:00 one of the best things that work in our meta is 'if you win, next game pick a deck that's powered-down. If you lose, for next game feel free to pick a deck that's powered-up'. It works surprisingly well.
The thing I like most in Commander (not winning) is being involved. In Magic, I can play on other peoples turn! I'm not a blue player, but my mono-green Yeva, Natures Herald deck is one of my favorites for this reason. I'm constantly reading, evaluating, planning, biding my time, and talking to people. It feels great having the answer at the right time or influencing the other players in general. Playing at sorcery speed means that you have to watch other people play magic until it comes back to you, which is way less fun to me.
It's not about winning, It's about building the biggest board just to see It being wiped the next turn.
Found the Timmy
New drinking game!? Take a drink every time Craig says “You know” 😂
11 minutes in and I'm sloshed lol
@@SwamPassMagic true lol
Everyone in the magic community needs to see this! Commenting for the algorithm!
I like Craig, you know ;)
Firstly, congrats Craig!
One thing I’ve done is make sure that I’m more focused when building. I build to a specific strategy and sometimes incorporate a secondary strategy that I parallels the first. Tertiary strategies or a second secondary strategy just wrecks the deck synergy.
When I do get to play, I’m usually the winner or the first out because I want to be the villain of the table. It’s like the archenemy, but there is a difference. The good villain progresses the game along. They take whatever value thing you thought you were doing and says no, we’re doing this instead, usually taking damage of some sort. I like to be a threat and don’t take offense should it turn into 3 vs 1. That means I’m doing my job.
I really think lifegain is undervalued. I built a Licia deck that has gigantic life swings and it catches a lot of people off guard. That’s a big part of why I love building Mardu decks, I don’t fall into the same standard tactics and strategies and get to use cards you’ve probably never heard of and don’t have an answer to.
My “least powerful” deck is Karona, but she might be my “least fun” to play against. She’s a Voltron strategy that basically controls your attack phase. She’s not the sort to pop off turn four, but if you’re not careful, she can be very VERY oppressive. The main problem with her is protecting the pieces that prevent a crack back, as three attacks, buffed with her ability, on an otherwise empty board is enough to knock someone out via commander damage.
I really want to test out my new Queen Marchesa deck that does something similar. It’s forces combat using Maddening Imp, Fumiko the Lowblood, Angel’s Trumpet or the like. Attack an opponent and you’re good. Attack me, however, and you’ll be… punished. I use the monarch and cards like Coveted Jewel as an enticement to attack me anyways.
As for politics, I don’t engage much with them. Again, I’m usually trying to get them to gang up on me. I do have a couple cards in each deck that I can use as political levers. For instance, what would you agree to if I could save you from dying?
Haven't even started watching. But I hope Jimmy is your point of reference 🤭
The biggest reason for me is when I have the chance to pull out a win, I hesitate. Like when I have the chance to tutor for a win con or can pull off a combo, in the back of mind is, "Well that's not super fun for everyone else. Let me grab something else to do something cool but not necessarily win."
Tbh I’d find that super patronizing. Pulling punches because you don’t want feel bads is rude to the other players. Always try you best in a game.
@@betamite I'm not pulling punches, per se. Like how would you know I'm pulling punches unless I told you? It's just a subconscious thing I do because I've had some bad experiences with playgroups where I've won via combos and anything outside of combat based wins cause so really intense feel bars.
@@SHADOWCLOUDGAMING if ive played against your deck before and I know generally whats in it and see your purposefully avoiding grabbing the right choice for a situation I’d feel patronized by that. Like if the whole board was full of artifacts and enchantments and I knew you had a bane of progress in the deck but you decide to tutor something else I’d feel annoyed that you feel like you need to go easy on me.
@@betamite Well I'd still do that, I'm not saying I purposefully avoid winning and setting people back. But if it's like I have the opportunity to go from 0 board state to win in one turn while everyone is still trying to set up I won't. If it's late game and we've been through a board wipe or two and there has been some good back forth I'll go for the win. But if it's like turn 5 and I can win and people are still trying to set up and haven't done anything I'll usually go for something other than my infinite combo or win now combo.
I actually do the same if i won the previous game. 🤔 1 win per evening is enough. Unless it's a very competitive playgroup, then i just assume they don't bother if someone wins multiple times.
Set looks awesome for the holidays, nice work to whoever was in charge of that! Great topic. Congrats to Craig!
Gotta love the "ornaments" on the trees...Adult Gold Dragon, Mox Sapphire, Fire Diamon, Moat, Candleabra of Tawnos...as you do.
What have you done to loose less?
- playing at least 36 lands no matter what
- having decks of each power level
- increase the amount of 2 cmc draw spells
- at least 6 instant removals or counter plays per deck
- a couple surprising cards like inkshield
- no slow tutors (3 cmc or more)
- only a few cards with no immediate impact, less than 5 per deck - no win more card
- only a few very threatening cards like doubling season and improving the timing of them
- no craterhoof wincon so my playgroup is less scared
But slow tutors can be quite good...
We all like to win our share, I think, but I love seeing a deck go off, even when it's not mine. When you have a range of decks, some decks want to win and others like to grind or durdle towards a wincon (and will lose to decks going for the win mostly) as the power level varies.
I have fun, win or lose, unless I didn't like the deck. I tend to prefer aggro to control, and sometimes favor janky wincons, like this deck wants to win by bouncing/flickering Omnath, Locus of the Roil and recasting it with a bunch of elementals on the field.
Great episode, guys!
Craig "You know" Infect Guy
Two of my favorite spicy bois
Congratulations!! So happy for you Craig; if you read this, much love from Scotland!!
I loved this one so much because it just speaks to me on so many levels. As someone who got into Magic/Commander because of the artworks and designs on the cards it really reflects on how I like to build my decks by making them functional but still VERY flavourful. So no, I don't win a lot of games but telling a story through my deck or playing new cards that fit the theme makes me super giddy and happy. I also don't mind losing and am always happy to take the opportunity to learn. On the other hand what used to make me a bit salty is bad threat assesment as in killing my commander on sight because it is/was a strong card in another format while it is actually quite tame here. But thankfully we figured that out in our playgroup so it doesn't really happen anymore.
Friend relatively recently freaked out because he was taken out after making a new zombie deck... been trying to tell him all of these things to have a better time and effectively play better. Absolutely love this episode and wish he cared enough to watch//have a supercut exist so reinforce the points to really make the game more fun rather than just win//making the "perfect" deck.
Congrats Craig. Enjoy every moment!!!
My Jeska, warrior adept deck. Jeska suited up with blackblade reforged, sword of body and mind, and grafted exoskeleton, with Kediss on board and a Simic player to target.
I recently had a game where I actively contributed to keeping the most threatening player (With an Aesi deck) alive, so everyone had a target other than me. We then proceeded to pick off 2 players until it came down to a 1v1 where I was able to assemble a combo win. I really shouldnt have won that game, my deck had bad matchups all around, but sometimes putting your opponents against each other can give you just enough time and ressources to win :)
New drinking game: take a shot every time Craig says "you know".
One of my favourite decks doesn't win, it threatens to win. But that's the point. It LOOKS threatening a lot of the time and people throw removal at it and everyone feels great to have defeated the Boss. I love RPing the arch enemy for a while and getting everyone to come together to overthrow me. Sometimes losing is winning 😃
In my experience the biggest reason to be on a long losing streak is not having an appropriately powered deck for the playgroup. Having a variety of decks at different power levels to switch between can be very helpful. If you are stuck with a bunch of wealthy Cedh people don't feel bad to just proxy what you need After all it should be about deck building and play skill, not the size of your bank account LOL.
one of the best, recent, videos on here in a while. That's not a shot, this was just really a great video that i think was needed.
I started playing MTG during New Phyrexia, so I’ve been in love with Infect since day 1. On that note, my number 1 commander is now Fynn the Fangbearer and dubbed it Mr Infect after Craig.
Anyone who says they don't care about winning . . . Why are you watching this episode?
The better way to say it is that you don't care about winning every game, but you do care about winning
The hierarchy of needs example is backwards. Maslows Hierarchy doesn't rank needs in order of importance with the most important on TOP. It ranks the most important on the BOTTOM, with each level going up only being achieved if the level below it has been met. With the chart Command Zone gave, they are saying that "Having fun" can only happen if you have FIRST had a desire to win. [You can't for instance meet Self-actualization needs UNTIL basic physiological needs like food / sleep are met]
my favorite take on this was from an episode of playing with power i watched. in cedh, even if you play really well, a deck in the meta, in a pod of people who know what they’re doing, and you play 3 games every friday, you might go an entire month without winning just by chance!
I think this was well done and great advice for new and experienced players 👏
I hate loosing so i built a urza deck and it wins a lot and i ranked 48 at the cedh world championships in Denmark and i am only fourteen years old and i am currently working on upgrading my urza list and i have considered starting a yt channel on all the aspects on edh both with proxy's and without i would just ask before i went you know all in on it what the community thinks😊😊
Oh snap! Congrats to Mr. Infect! I wish you and yours a prosperous and healthy future!
Drinking game: When mr Infect says "you know" take a drink
I like to fight hard to win - it's the process of fighting the hardest I can to win no matter the circumstance. It has much less to do with the result and more with the process itself
The green Triumph of the hordes in your jeskai zedruu deck, classic!
another thing i learned was when i built a quasi najeela deck. i consistently lost because i would just “go for it” or cast najeela at completely inappropriate times and just get board wiped or countered when i could have easily avoided that. just learning to be patient flipped that switch!
you should of mentioned the art of being second best. similar to your not coming on too strong early, it's the concept of deploying things just under the highest power on the board. this insulates you from removal and leads to a dominant position later often.
When deck building, not putting in enough finishers, ramp and draw to get there, or protection against interaction appropriate to the power level and threat types you expect to face. When playing, revealing a combo piece too soon unless you expect to die if you don't take the risk of exposing it. Also, not directing other players attention to opponents' combo pieces, value engines, and the tutoring/draw they've done. Also, using sorcery speed removal on a strong permanent that that will invite retribution from its controller, when you could instead get the controller to to use it mainly or only on one of your opponents. Using scarce removal too early so that you don't waste mana. Also not bluffing removal to deter attacks.
"When you are not good at something, you tend to lean away from it." Oh Craig, I wish that was true :D
I suggest building and piloting your decks in MTG forge. Can get a decent feel for how your deck plays against different deck types. How your draws feel and any substitutions you could make to improve the deck if some cards underperform. In general just understand how and why the deck does what it does.
I think it's most important to assess the possibility for removal before trying to make your game-winning play. I won a game where someone was handing out cards with the new Selvala and I kept flipping lands while everyone else revealed counterspells I could wait for them to use. Using these kinds of small bits of free information and waiting for mana to be tapped has been a great boon for me in the past.
Here’s my thing about this and I’m actually on a huge losing streak. Winning 100% isn’t fun, HOWEVER what I really don’t enjoy is losing first every game. No matter what deck, boardstate, deals I’ve had or made my playgroup targets me out of the game. All removal is pointed my way and I’m only the one only attacked until I’m out of the game. This isn’t fun and looking for a new play group.
I've got a similar problem. But mine is because whenever we play my knowledge is what causes me to be the target. The other player who's in my group just has ridiculous game luck so whenever he or targeted just held him
Really enjoyed this episode, very interesting and thought provoking subject matters. Makes me take note that some aspects of my game, that I can improve! Nicely done with this one boys!
P. S congratulations Craig!
"Am I trying to win?" and "Does winning/losing effect my fun level?" are not the same question. I think Craig touched on this but not enough.
I am a competitive person. When I start a game, I don't care if I have the jankiest deck ever or how casual the playgroup is, I am trying to win. The process of trying to win is what makes games fun for me, but whether or not I actually win does not affect that fun level.
A lot of my losses were usually attributed to bad card inclusions, usually based around how "cool" or "fun" the card seemed, just general inexperience with a new deck, or just learning where the cracks are in my deck based on what my friends bring to the table.
Congratulations Craig !
The two most common reasons I’ve seen:
-Going full Dunning-Kruger when it comes to the game in general
-Not running enough interaction
Other than that, its a game with a heavy luck factor, so, you’re bound to lose from time to time...
Best End Step Ever! Congrats Craig!
Congrats to Craige on becoming a dad... Sheoldred and Urabrask Blanchette are some good choices for kids names I'm sure the other kids will love them! :D
I win more than I should statistically, part of the reason why I think that is is because I seek out content like this, and I take it to heart.
But these are the main things: The difference between running 36 lands and 34 is huge. The difference is even bigger from 34 and 32. Another thing is that card draw is more important than tutors if your deck is built with enough synergy and interaction. You shouldn't need to tutor for an answer if you have a sufficient amount of card draw. and if you do tutor for an answer you are 2 for 1ing yourself. Basically be prepared so you can play proactively, not reactively. Lastly, try and get to a point where most of the non land cards in your deck have some sort of synergy with your commander, or can act as a replacement for your commander. That way if it gets incapacitated somehow your gameplay doesn't lose steam.
Regarding rule zero conversation... I had one a while ago where we all agreed to play our "dirty bastard" decks. It was a lot of fun because we all had the expectation that things would get evil and nasty. I think that's what rule zero conversations are really about, avoiding unpleasant surprises.
I won with my home brew Sedris deck when I was dead on board. Stone Fangs drained my opponent for 1, they were at six. Unearthed my Hellkite Courser (after casting Sedris) and swung in for exactly 6. I also won with my modified Kathril Precon but I forget how. Those were the only ways I won at my LGS
My favorite quote from "Moneyball"...
"...and I hate losing. I HATE IT. I hate losing even more than I like winning...and there's a difference" 😆
Congratulations Craig
6:51 I always knew the ducks were trying to win!
I play in a weekly commander league that runs 12 week seasons for points and prizes. It frowns on cEDH level, but encourages everyone to play at an 8-9 level if you want to compete. Going in knowing the expectations helps a lot.
Biggest thing for me is just running through game iterations. Too many players just build deck after deck and don’t play them but 1-2 times. I’ve been working on/playing some of lists for 6-7 years. I know exactly what my decks can and can’t do in a given situation. That has directly led to more and more wins
Last night I knew I was going to die and lose, so I decided to make that death interesting!!!! Instead of killing another player I left him on 1 health.... that round became the most fun round of mantic negotiations on who should attack who, what could happen if someone lived or died, 10 min later we had a winner and everyone sat there loving it!!!
Moral of the story, its not about winning, it's about playing magic in the most enjoyable way for everyone
Congrats to Craig and new fam
Our group usually allows you mulligan an additional time at each card down: 7, 6, 6, 5, 5…
I prefer Cedh because I am not responsible for everyone’s level of fun. Everyone understands we will all play to win at all costs. This does not mean we cannot team up against someone that is in the lead, but that type of partnership tends to dissolve quickly as a new leader arises. Cedh players appreciate and acknowledge brilliant play, and will usually congratulate someone that makes a great play regardless of how that play stopped the one currently attempting to win. Better sportsmanship is a lot easier to come by when everyone understands that there are no holds barred.
If you don’t win the game you brush it off and shuffle up for the next game.
On the topic of of playing slowly to avoid becoming archenemy, definitely be careful of gaining a reputation for coming from behind to win. I've developed that reputation and it results in me being pummeled even when I actually am low on resources! Sometimes I have to offer deals to promise not to play cards I don't even have in my hand...
If you cascade into Doomsday turn five with no win-con pile you assuredly loose. BUT, the tension and excitement around the table as you die hilariously is the BEST.
Congratulations Lord Infect just make sure you pass along your infectious traits along! :)
I am 100% in the "I'm trying to have a fun and interesting game" camp with almost no concern for winning. I want to get my "achievement unlocked" goals that seldom have anything to do with winning. Still enjoying the video though because I do need to actually put some wincons in some of my decks that currently have no plan beyond durdle.
My beautiful baby girl is an IVF baby... we are so thankful for the people in our lives that helped us accomplish our dream of being parents. @CraigBlanchette Congratulations!
For a long time I played decks in a way where I went off super early on, died for it, then my other friends would win after every game due to blue bullcrap. I found there are two solutions to this problem, one being when you go off you win that turn, or you just play more carefully and assess your options. That's my experience at least
i always keep an alt wincon. whether thats a simple combo or mass damage. it does help especially when you hit that wall when playing staxy players.
also i love interaction/removal. ive become way more of a control player over the years but i just love having the answers and ive been stuck in way too many pods that no else did have any answers.
stopping other people win is always the best way to win.
I actually noticed I win way more than the rest of the players in my playgroup. I've started to analyse the situation and I realised that the decks I build are way more powerfull than my opponents. I decided to build some weaker decks to play with my friends to keep the fun in the group. Losing your share of the games is very important for everyone to have fun!!!
The most important thing is:
If you are going to get ahead of the other players you have to own it. If you're not ready to tackle the other players at the table then you should play more defensively because of course they are going to try and deal with you.
If you become arch enemy it is because you most likely put yourself in that spot, but that's okay. Because if that happens you should be player who is the closest to win.
"You know?" Craig 2021. Lol love you Craig.
9 times out of 10 I can tell how I lost(usually due to overextension) but there's always that 1 time that I have no idea how I've lost other then it had to be due to the "Heart of the Cards" working for my opponent(s).
I have a friend who will just focus on you if you just play the game like assess a threat he has and if you blow it up he just will go after you over something small like the tap diamonds so our group does a fine dance of maneuvering around this.
True humility was demonstrated here. It takes a real man to admit his faults. This game is definitely complicated.
A good way of learning your own deck is actually playing someone else’s while they play with yours.
when playing a game the goal is to win. but it is the goal that is important, not the winning.
> Dr Reiner Knitzia
I screwed myself for this. When my group first started playing, I already had a bunch of optimized decks for 2 player games so I tended to win really fast. They had pre builds. Now they have built good decks and I tend to lose the first have dozen games of the night
My friends just find it funny when I die first