/ davemosstuning what would you recommend for criteria to decide on what we should get as a track bike. Is it based on the bikes we ride now or something completely different?
I second the advice to get suspensions at least sorted out. I could not believe how bad my zx10r was setup and how i could not make it go where i wanted it to. Gave it to professionals which did a bit of work on it and setup the whole lot and lot not only the bike goes faster, gets out of the corners quicker (i shaved 3 seconds off my PB and i know i got more coming, with an average of 2 and a bit seconds of constant pace after only 1 trackday) but also feels safer because it is predictable. Be safe, first of all.
The assumption with the SV650 is that I did the same, hence the preamble to set the stage so to speak. Of course to go racing, the list of to do's and requirements is a lot longer. Agreed on safety checks.
Aloha Dave. My first bike ever was a FZR400, bought brand new in 1989. I was a senior in high school. I then had a FZR600, ZX7R, then an R6. I don't have those anymore, but I still have and ride my FZR400 once in a while. Just thought I'd share. No tracks to ride here, just some really nice all year weather and lots of fun roads here on the Big Island.
@Doubledge007 depending on where you live, there may be track side or local sport bike rental companies. Here in NorCal for example we have "Feel like a Pro" for track side rental and MotoGio who offer sport bike rentals and will deliver the bike to the track and take it back. It takes a little digging sometimes to find the information for some strange reason. You can rent bikes by the session or the day in each case so based on your needs you would rent for the day. Dave Moss Host
Top man, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I really get your point that the track is not for everyone. I will try it with an open mind. If it is not for me then at least I will know.
Just be prepared as best you can for the day itself, not only with the bike but with the organization, their philosophy, staff to ask etc. The more you know before the arrive, the better the experience will be!
The first things i would do as a wannabe track rider is to learn, learn, learn everything about how to set up a bike to most importantly learning how to be a mechanic. If you dont understand what is happening while you drive a bike a BIG bike will make it even harder. Take something easy maintainable and that you can use to almost 100 % and learn how to choosing the right place on the track and why the bike handles as it does. Jumping on a 1000cc FZR or similar will make the learning take years longer, if you dont crash and quit. I rode a RGV250 as a first on track and it made me understand and learn how to get faster laptimes.
Dave - Thank you for doing this... I don't intend to ride competitively (at this point) but I want to really hone my skills on the track. It was helpful advice. I still don't know if I am making the right choice on a track bike, I'm planning on using a TL1000S that I am rebuilding and found for $1000. I managed to grab an Ohlins rear suspension and Showa BPF w/ radial brakes on the cheap ($1000). However, it does make it easy not to cry if I throw it off the track while learning.
You can ride anything you want at the track. One consideration is engine configuration and what you "like":- twins, triples, fours etc? A twin offers great torque and engine braking which are great for the track especially when you are learning. The disadvantage is that the bike is heavy by modern standards but wit correct geometry and set up it is still a very capable bike!
I used to do track days here and there for years on bigger bikes - Super Duke 990 R6 Z1000 Then I bought a Ninja 400 track bike and I am at the track every chance I get. The 400 made it fun again because I learned more in one season than I did in 10 years of track riding. Ninja 400 taught me the error of my ways. Also, it's fun reeling in the liter bikes in the turns.
It is indeed and thanks for sharing. There's so much to learn via a 400 on track especially about entry speed and high lean angles for long periods if time :)
Hello, i just finished my first time at a road course. I have a 2008 gsxr 600, its my first bike but i feel quite comfortable on it. I still need some practice, should turn that into a track bike or go to a smaller bike? Im looking to build a good foundation in my riding style and build from there. Thank you for your time.
Hello and thanks Dave for all your efforts .. I have a BMW S1000R 2017 it wags a lil bit and it scares me a lot on the track so I thought I would fix the Suspension according to my weight .. I wish you can help me with this .. thanks again.
Thanks for the email. Please send answers to the below questions to dave@davemosstuning.com 1. kms/miles on the odometer to date 2. Your weight without gear 3. Changes from stock re gearing and weight savings 4. Stock suspension or? 5. Brand model and sizes of tires used
What displacement bike would you recommend now for someone brand new to motorcycles? Start on a 300-400cc modern race style bike? Possibly a little 250cc? Keeping in mind everything you said to be budget conscious and to learn the proper fundamentals to ride the wheels off the bike before moving up.
Displacement =/= horsepower. There is ergonomics, handling, powerband, weight, so a Honda CB650R with 95 horses and 4 cylinder is easier to ride than a Yamaha MT-07 with 75 horses and plenty of lowend grunt. You wouldn't think a woman with big boobs was more intelligent than a woman with small boobs, so no reason to think more cc gives you more horsepower. ;)
I decided to jump into the water with a SV1000S. Lots of torque, not crazy power but plenty enought, engine is bulletproof and the thing is snappy af with cero electronic aids so it forces you to learn trottle control and smoothness, or die :)
I too race analogue bikes so it is all about my learning, choices and smoothness. I believe this type of motorcycle with no aids has truly helped me win races.
Never ever skimp on safety your life is worth more than the 10 bucks saved. Also, get something you will enjoy riding, not frighten you or bore you either. I used an SV650 for instructing and it is a vastly under rated bike. The Triumph Daytona 675 is really good too. I have a 2017 s1000rr sport, bigger isn't always the best or most fun. So
Dave great video. Question. Can you explain more on renting a trackday bike. I've been wanting to take mine to the track but it makes me very nervous cuz I bought it brand new and I dont want to wreak it. I'm not rich and would like to keep it nice. Renting seems to be the way to go. Thanks
Consider race body work as a track bike option. Get a fiberglass version of your bike and save all the expensive stock plastic in a box at home. Consider body work as an expendable, much as you would with tyres, oil, gasoline, brake pads, etc. Renting is a good option, but after three rentals, you could have purchased the fiberglass body work (plus simple paint job). If its your bike, you can be sure about the maintenance and set-up. A rental just doesn't bring the sense of satisfaction in accomplishment, as does tuning, then riding your own bike. Good Luck.
I don't get why people buy race scrubs, the guys taking them off most likely can't afford to take them off unless they have a big budget/serious sponsors. They are taking them off for a reason, whether that be heat cycles, blueing or what have you. I'd buy them at a big level event if I would buy them as the money would be there and they would be overly cautious, but I wouldn't be buying them off the local club racers at the local track. I just picked up new rubber all round for my r6, in fairness it seems tempting when you see diablo superbikes and power slicks going for less than 150 for set, but I still ask myself if there was that much life left in it why would they sell it.
Ive done several track day on a bmw S1000rr ( 2015) and now I'm looking for just a track bike and yes its been recommended that I use a 250cc. I stated on a Gsxr 600(2011).
You can use whatever you want provided you have the willingness to control the throttle appropriately. Given today's electronics, you can reduce power significantly to make your 1000 a 600. If you want just a track bike, a GSXR 750 is always the go to bike. The 06 and 07 vintage are good ones.
I know this is an older video but @7:36 what did you mean by torquey 600’s are long gone? Like they don’t make them or they’re bought up ? or you’re saying the torque is long gone at high revs ?
You could feel power at 6-8,000rpm and the bike would pull strongly. Modern 600's you get to get to 10,000 and voila! There is the power. 6-10k is where I prefer to ride so when the 636 came out, the engine gave you much better range of torque leading to more power with more rpm.
Dave Moss Tuning so somehow I’ve asked a handful of people and haven’t asked the only one who has a “Tuning” related business. Is there any way to easily add a “low power mode” to bikes with efi? I mean I know there is theoretically, but are there actually any products on the market with a fairly easily implementation that achieves this? Like in the power commanders people always recommend ? I only ask as i would feel far more comfortable buying a bike a little more powerful than I necessarily want to start with if I could limit the room for error as I dial in my own skills... If this doesn’t exist, may I suggest we get to work on a easy piggyback tuner or full fledged ECU swap to offer such options in a properly engineered manner that isn’t just recklessly tweaking fuel trim or something silly? Sorry for the lengthy question this time but I’m embracing my inner 6 year old as you suggested and asking WHY
Dave Moss Tuning that makes sense, thanks for clarifying, i don’t know why I initally took it literally and was wondering where/what happened to torquey 600’s or if emissions laws killed them somehow etc.
hello dave, i just put fresh new pirelli rosso 2 on my z300 (naked ninja 300) and im wondering what is the best tire pressure i should use on track. the track im riding is very hot it has between 33-37C degrees and i was wondering if this kind of tyre can overheat and weather i should go higher then the stock pressures? the current stock manufactorer pressures are 28psi front and 32 psi rear.
With that tire and those temps (based on everything I've seen with same track temps and bike here in California) we would run 36psi hot on the front and 32 to 34psi hot on the rear.
Yes these are pressures we have used on a very large number of Ninja 300's hence my specific answer. Yes, track pressures are significantly different to stock. Stock is about longevity, track is about contact patch size, heat and grip.
Dave Moss Tuning when you say hot, you mean after a session check and adjust? Also can you shortly explain why seting much higher pressure in the front will be more beneficial for track?
Hot ideally means mid session with someone helping to get pressures in the hot pit. Higher pressure in the front tire gives better structure to the tire under braking and cornering loads to allow you to brake and turn verses flattening out the tire and having no steering while braking.
What about if i buy a modern Superbike like R1M or ZX10R I still need to change a lot of things or it is already ready to go fast if we know how to ride it?? Resume: a "old" Supersport 600 or a modern Stock 1000?? That decision is costing me nights of thinking about kkk
Depends what you mean by "lot of things". Most modern open class bikes would be springs and possibly valving, then geometry based on tire brand and size. Once you have done that, ergonomics would be the next criteria and you may or may not need to change something.
@@CatalystReactionSBW so to be fast, I spend more money on the upgrades for a 600cc than with a 1000cc where I can be fast as a stock bike, am I right??
@@HelderFilipe8 skills and pratice is what makes you fast. Faster laptimes is like 96% the rider and only 4% the bike. If seems to me you dont really know what to do bout "racing" a bike, so I d get a 600 or 750 if I were you. Dont spend a lot of money on "upgrades" just sprockets and entrance fees for trackdays
I'm confused, Dave: in your long 'prep' preamble you mention all these must-do items pre-trackday. Then you tell us that you bought a SV650, taped the headlight, slapped a number plate on it, & took it out (racing I assume by the tone!?) Overall I agree with your message, but for the preamble. First & foremost is safety checks & making sure the various systems on the bike are in reliable working order - which you list as least important. Not re-valving the suspension. Not proper gearing, etc.
Not wrong - you chose that path as that's what made sense to you. It may do for all time. It is worth pondering in there's value in a 750 unless you've done years of point and shoot riding style
@@CatalystReactionSBW I stopped going to the canyons, doing the point and shoot . At the same time admiring my friends ability to lean into the corners. I'm refurbishing a 87' FZR 750R, . MY liter bikes are 2003 RC51 and FZR 1000 . Thanks for the encouragement. !
Stellar video! About to get into track days and hopefully racing and this was a great 101 for me.
The first 5 minutes are very helpful. Thanks Dave!
This was exceptionally good advice. Thank you.
I second the advice to get suspensions at least sorted out. I could not believe how bad my zx10r was setup and how i could not make it go where i wanted it to. Gave it to professionals which did a bit of work on it and setup the whole lot and lot not only the bike goes faster, gets out of the corners quicker (i shaved 3 seconds off my PB and i know i got more coming, with an average of 2 and a bit seconds of constant pace after only 1 trackday) but also feels safer because it is predictable. Be safe, first of all.
good advice not many tell you these things it can b a expensive learning curve🖒🖒
Wish I knew you were in Redwood City when I was living in Oakland Dave. Great stuff as always!
The assumption with the SV650 is that I did the same, hence the preamble to set the stage so to speak. Of course to go racing, the list of to do's and requirements is a lot longer. Agreed on safety checks.
Aloha Dave. My first bike ever was a FZR400, bought brand new in 1989. I was a senior in high school. I then had a FZR600, ZX7R, then an R6. I don't have those anymore, but I still have and ride my FZR400 once in a while. Just thought I'd share. No tracks to ride here, just some really nice all year weather and lots of fun roads here on the Big Island.
@Doubledge007 depending on where you live, there may be track side or local sport bike rental companies. Here in NorCal for example we have "Feel like a Pro" for track side rental and MotoGio who offer sport bike rentals and will deliver the bike to the track and take it back. It takes a little digging sometimes to find the information for some strange reason. You can rent bikes by the session or the day in each case so based on your needs you would rent for the day.
Dave Moss
Host
Great advice for the beginner. Thanks.
Top man, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I really get your point that the track is not for everyone. I will try it with an open mind. If it is not for me then at least I will know.
Start small and build up is what I did and then you get to see the light at the end of tunnel.....never stop learning 👍
That's the plan!
Just be prepared as best you can for the day itself, not only with the bike but with the organization, their philosophy, staff to ask etc. The more you know before the arrive, the better the experience will be!
Dave, thank you for all your wonderful help.
👍......nuf said! Thanks for your knowledge!!!!!
The first things i would do as a wannabe track rider is to learn, learn, learn everything about how to set up a bike to most importantly learning how to be a mechanic.
If you dont understand what is happening while you drive a bike a BIG bike will make it even harder.
Take something easy maintainable and that you can use to almost 100 % and learn how to choosing the right place on the track and why the bike handles as it does.
Jumping on a 1000cc FZR or similar will make the learning take years longer, if you dont crash and quit.
I rode a RGV250 as a first on track and it made me understand and learn how to get faster laptimes.
*ride a bike
Got it, thanks.
Dave - Thank you for doing this... I don't intend to ride competitively (at this point) but I want to really hone my skills on the track. It was helpful advice.
I still don't know if I am making the right choice on a track bike, I'm planning on using a TL1000S that I am rebuilding and found for $1000. I managed to grab an Ohlins rear suspension and Showa BPF w/ radial brakes on the cheap ($1000). However, it does make it easy not to cry if I throw it off the track while learning.
You can ride anything you want at the track. One consideration is engine configuration and what you "like":- twins, triples, fours etc? A twin offers great torque and engine braking which are great for the track especially when you are learning. The disadvantage is that the bike is heavy by modern standards but wit correct geometry and set up it is still a very capable bike!
I used to do track days here and there for years on bigger bikes - Super Duke 990
R6
Z1000
Then I bought a Ninja 400 track bike and I am at the track every chance I get. The 400 made it fun again because I learned more in one season than I did in 10 years of track riding. Ninja 400 taught me the error of my ways. Also, it's fun reeling in the liter bikes in the turns.
It is indeed and thanks for sharing. There's so much to learn via a 400 on track especially about entry speed and high lean angles for long periods if time :)
Hello, i just finished my first time at a road course. I have a 2008 gsxr 600, its my first bike but i feel quite comfortable on it. I still need some practice, should turn that into a track bike or go to a smaller bike? Im looking to build a good foundation in my riding style and build from there. Thank you for your time.
Hello and thanks Dave for all your efforts .. I have a BMW S1000R 2017
it wags a lil bit and it scares me a lot on the track so I thought I would fix the Suspension according to my weight .. I wish you can help me with this .. thanks again.
Thanks for the email. Please send answers to the below questions to dave@davemosstuning.com 1. kms/miles on the odometer to date 2. Your weight without gear 3. Changes from stock re gearing and weight savings 4. Stock suspension or? 5. Brand model and sizes of tires used
What displacement bike would you recommend now for someone brand new to motorcycles? Start on a 300-400cc modern race style bike? Possibly a little 250cc? Keeping in mind everything you said to be budget conscious and to learn the proper fundamentals to ride the wheels off the bike before moving up.
Anything you cab afford to crash and fix. 600 is plenty, less is enough.
@@sakariputtonen2683 That is like judging the intelligence of a woman by the size of her boobs.
Displacement =/= horsepower. There is ergonomics, handling, powerband, weight, so a Honda CB650R with 95 horses and 4 cylinder is easier to ride than a Yamaha MT-07 with 75 horses and plenty of lowend grunt. You wouldn't think a woman with big boobs was more intelligent than a woman with small boobs, so no reason to think more cc gives you more horsepower. ;)
I decided to jump into the water with a SV1000S. Lots of torque, not crazy power but plenty enought, engine is bulletproof and the thing is snappy af with cero electronic aids so it forces you to learn trottle control and smoothness, or die :)
I too race analogue bikes so it is all about my learning, choices and smoothness. I believe this type of motorcycle with no aids has truly helped me win races.
One You Can Afford .
Never ever skimp on safety your life is worth more than the 10 bucks saved.
Also, get something you will enjoy riding, not frighten you or bore you either.
I used an SV650 for instructing and it is a vastly under rated bike. The Triumph Daytona 675 is really good too.
I have a 2017 s1000rr sport, bigger isn't always the best or most fun.
So
Dave great video. Question. Can you explain more on renting a trackday bike. I've been wanting to take mine to the track but it makes me very nervous cuz I bought it brand new and I dont want to wreak it. I'm not rich and would like to keep it nice. Renting seems to be the way to go. Thanks
Consider race body work as a track bike option. Get a fiberglass version of your bike and save all the expensive stock plastic in a box at home. Consider body work as an expendable, much as you would with tyres, oil, gasoline, brake pads, etc. Renting is a good option, but after three rentals, you could have purchased the fiberglass body work (plus simple paint job). If its your bike, you can be sure about the maintenance and set-up. A rental just doesn't bring the sense of satisfaction in accomplishment, as does tuning, then riding your own bike. Good Luck.
Which sport bikes can you revalve the suspension ? Every bike I’ve owned seemed like aftermarket was the only option.
Any forks that have rebound as a minimum, and any bike with a shock that has a remote or inbuilt nitrogen cylinder. Those are general rules to use.
Dave, do you know of a track school at which it is possible to rent track bikes ?
www.feellikeapro.com/
I don't get why people buy race scrubs, the guys taking them off most likely can't afford to take them off unless they have a big budget/serious sponsors. They are taking them off for a reason, whether that be heat cycles, blueing or what have you. I'd buy them at a big level event if I would buy them as the money would be there and they would be overly cautious, but I wouldn't be buying them off the local club racers at the local track. I just picked up new rubber all round for my r6, in fairness it seems tempting when you see diablo superbikes and power slicks going for less than 150 for set, but I still ask myself if there was that much life left in it why would they sell it.
Ive done several track day on a bmw S1000rr ( 2015) and now I'm looking for just a track bike and yes its been recommended that I use a 250cc. I stated on a Gsxr 600(2011).
You can use whatever you want provided you have the willingness to control the throttle appropriately. Given today's electronics, you can reduce power significantly to make your 1000 a 600. If you want just a track bike, a GSXR 750 is always the go to bike. The 06 and 07 vintage are good ones.
Thanks for reply I've got some things to do before the whole racing thing but ill keep any eye out for a 750 or from what I've seen 675R.
get the 1st generation 675R as they are oddly underpriced as a used bike and they are excellent.
I bought a 2009 zx6r stock due to the fact most bike were not set up for my weight and seller un willing to test ride.
I know this is an older video but @7:36 what did you mean by torquey 600’s are long gone? Like they don’t make them or they’re bought up ? or you’re saying the torque is long gone at high revs ?
You could feel power at 6-8,000rpm and the bike would pull strongly. Modern 600's you get to get to 10,000 and voila! There is the power. 6-10k is where I prefer to ride so when the 636 came out, the engine gave you much better range of torque leading to more power with more rpm.
Dave Moss Tuning so somehow I’ve asked a handful of people and haven’t asked the only one who has a “Tuning” related business. Is there any way to easily add a “low power mode” to bikes with efi? I mean I know there is theoretically, but are there actually any products on the market with a fairly easily implementation that achieves this? Like in the power commanders people always recommend ? I only ask as i would feel far more comfortable buying a bike a little more powerful than I necessarily want to start with if I could limit the room for error as I dial in my own skills...
If this doesn’t exist, may I suggest we get to work on a easy piggyback tuner or full fledged ECU swap to offer such options in a properly engineered manner that isn’t just recklessly tweaking fuel trim or something silly? Sorry for the lengthy question this time but I’m embracing my inner 6 year old as you suggested and asking WHY
Dave Moss Tuning that makes sense, thanks for clarifying, i don’t know why I initally took it literally and was wondering where/what happened to torquey 600’s or if emissions laws killed them somehow etc.
hello dave, i just put fresh new pirelli rosso 2 on my z300 (naked ninja 300) and im wondering what is the best tire pressure i should use on track. the track im riding is very hot it has between 33-37C degrees and i was wondering if this kind of tyre can overheat and weather i should go higher then the stock pressures? the current stock manufactorer pressures are 28psi front and 32 psi rear.
With that tire and those temps (based on everything I've seen with same track temps and bike here in California) we would run 36psi hot on the front and 32 to 34psi hot on the rear.
what do you mean by hot? and are these pressures specific for a ninja 300 ? because that is a major diffrence then the stock
Yes these are pressures we have used on a very large number of Ninja 300's hence my specific answer. Yes, track pressures are significantly different to stock. Stock is about longevity, track is about contact patch size, heat and grip.
Dave Moss Tuning when you say hot, you mean after a session check and adjust? Also can you shortly explain why seting much higher pressure in the front will be more beneficial for track?
Hot ideally means mid session with someone helping to get pressures in the hot pit. Higher pressure in the front tire gives better structure to the tire under braking and cornering loads to allow you to brake and turn verses flattening out the tire and having no steering while braking.
What about if i buy a modern Superbike like R1M or ZX10R I still need to change a lot of things or it is already ready to go fast if we know how to ride it??
Resume: a "old" Supersport 600 or a modern Stock 1000??
That decision is costing me nights of thinking about kkk
Depends what you mean by "lot of things". Most modern open class bikes would be springs and possibly valving, then geometry based on tire brand and size. Once you have done that, ergonomics would be the next criteria and you may or may not need to change something.
@@CatalystReactionSBW so to be fast, I spend more money on the upgrades for a 600cc than with a 1000cc where I can be fast as a stock bike, am I right??
@@HelderFilipe8 skills and pratice is what makes you fast. Faster laptimes is like 96% the rider and only 4% the bike. If seems to me you dont really know what to do bout "racing" a bike, so I d get a 600 or 750 if I were you. Dont spend a lot of money on "upgrades" just sprockets and entrance fees for trackdays
HelderFilipe8 get a 2007 CBR 1000RR it's nimble light and fast af
I'm confused, Dave: in your long 'prep' preamble you mention all these must-do items pre-trackday. Then you tell us that you bought a SV650, taped the headlight, slapped a number plate on it, & took it out (racing I assume by the tone!?)
Overall I agree with your message, but for the preamble. First & foremost is safety checks & making sure the various systems on the bike are in reliable working order - which you list as least important. Not re-valving the suspension. Not proper gearing, etc.
you look a bit like Iain Glen here, aka Ser Jorah
Damn, I already did everything wrong, starting out with a 1000cc
Bike
Not wrong - you chose that path as that's what made sense to you. It may do for all time. It is worth pondering in there's value in a 750 unless you've done years of point and shoot riding style
@@CatalystReactionSBW I stopped going to the canyons, doing the point and shoot . At the same time admiring my friends ability to lean into the corners. I'm refurbishing a 87' FZR 750R, .
MY liter bikes are 2003 RC51 and FZR 1000 . Thanks for the encouragement. !