I went from a Kawi liter bike to a Honda 600rr after I wrecked my Kawi (on the street, of course). I was in my mid-seventies, and decided a 600 might be easier on the old bod. What I found was that I had to ride better on the smaller bike -- faster in turns -- because I couldn't just twist the throttle on the big bike and catch up with other riders on the straights. Did my last track day at the age of 78, and still ride the 600 in the hills of northern California almost every weekend.
I believe that one of the most important human factors when riding is fear. The most dangerous is ego. Fear keeps you safe by instilling respect in most cases. Ego gets you hurt or worse.
@@jerryrivera7704 well, im 50 now and started learning to ride at 8. My moms friend was a dirt bike racer and he thought me that fear is necessary. Not only for riding but life. 😎🏍💨👍
I started track days with a R3 300. After a couple track days I moved up to a GSXR 600 for more straightaway speed. Went faster every session with the 600, but was still intimidated by the power and speed as a newbie. After about 6 months of at least 1 track day every month(I live in Florida), I went back to the 300 to learn how to "ride" faster. I plan on starting to race next season on the 300. I highly recommend a 300 if you're brand new to track riding. Main thing is take it easy, go step by step and ride safe and have fun.
For me my best ever all round Track Bike was a GSXR750. I have owned many 1000cc and currently run an MV F3 800 on track but the GSXR750 still takes a lot of beating.
Coming from a zx6r to a Cbr1100xx, i guess something in the middle like a gsxr750 would give the best track performance. 150 hp for a 750 is insane, Even by todays standard.
Yep Gixxer fer sure..... Ive got both 99 750 srad ,, Close to origianal looks, But with mods.. + I have a 05 Cbr 1000 rr, Pipe PC KnN Gixxers a blessing on d twistys .... CBR ,,,, Cant use the extra HP ,,, Wants to launch into the tree tops Scarey
One drunken night at the Nurburgring a few of us got into a conversation of what would be a good bike to not only ride there but what would break the Bridge to Gantry lap record. A 600 superport bike was mentioned (Ok not road legal, which the need to be to do the touristfahn sessions, but it was a suggestion). So when we got home my best mate suggested we use his crashed Suzuki GSXR600 to build a bike to try and set a good lap time. A few more chats with numerous suppliers and a magazine to see if they wanted to print the project and its progress later and the project started. The key was chassis and weight loss more than engine tuning, So a set of larger GSXR750 throttle bodies (from a breakers) and a set of cams from Kent cams and that was as deep as we went into the motor. Durbahn in Germany helped with some carbon weight loss and Bitubo helped with the suspension. The bike was built and as much weight loss as possible was done then the bike was set up at Mallory Park by my best mate and my good friend Luke Stapleford. The bike was about to go to Germany and we just found the MV Agusta 312 had set a new Lap record with Andy Carlisle riding the 312. He was the guy I had lined up to ride the 600 too... After a long conversation with him he felt the 600 would not get close as the MV Agusta was set up for the Nurburgring and carried corner speed higher than the other bikes he had ridden. But the wheels were in motion and Bridgestone had sent 5 sets of tyres to Andy for the article. After a couple of weeks he finally got round to doing a few hot laps... First attempt the video camera had stopped working. The next attempt it worked well enough to show the start and finish of the lap but was a bit dull with shots of the ground or his hand for much of the lap. But it was enough.. The 600 broke the lap record with a 7m 18 second lap. The key was the power was enough to get the speeds needed but not so much torque the bike was trying to spin up and spit you off the bike. It could carry so much corner speed that it was scary. It made the ultimate trackday bike for someone who actually wanted to ride the corners as hard as they dare and not the typical slower trackday throttle twister who wobbles round the corners and drag races on the straights... A good 600 can still lap faster than almost ANY bike at a trackday if you are really trying to improve your riding and want to experience major lean angles and push the grip as hard as you dare. A 600 is a riders bike... A 1000 is for those who are either mega fast on a 600 already or just want to have something that will scare them and not spend hour after hour understanding how to carry corner speed.
Don't believe a 600 can lap faster than almost any bike at a trackday. Because that is the rider, not the bike. Put the same rider on a 1k and he will lap faster.
I was 69 years old running a 1991 TZR 250 at the California Superbike School. There were some cornering situation wherein the little 2T would pass a BMW S 1000 RR. Of course, on the straights I was at about at least 120hp disadvantage. Riding a highly capable small bike to near its limit is much more fun than struggling with a faster big bike that you cannot possibly exploit.
The important thing for me is , when you go to the track , go as fast as you can within your limits, feel you are like Rossi, Marquez or Stoner. Then you , your mates & your bikes go home in the same condition you went . Happy safe riding to all. 👍
There exacly the same thing even same weight in some specs or possibly 15 pounds off. A r1 is better then a r6 in every way. The only difference is one a beginer shouldnt ride because to much twisting of the throttle will make it wheelie and if you dont know how to come down from a wheelie your probaly gonna crash. Idk why everyones so confused about this. It hasnt been since the 90s that a cbr 1000 and a cbr 600 100 pounds apart and that could affect how you lean the bike how easy it is. Now a r6 and r1 a cbr600 and a cbr1000 can be the exact same weight with option or max like 20 pounds off.
My 08 cbr600 seemed to have better if not way better hardware than the 954 i had, or tl i had. I was much more comfortable on it too. But i suppose now im looking for a 08 cbr1k so what do you do.
I love both! I ride a 1000cc bike on the track it’s just for pure emotions! A 600cc is for perfect lines and training just perfec! Good to have both AeroR Entertainment 🎥🏍💨🎬
they can't corner as well as the bike's geometry is set up to be more stable at high speed and more capable of handling more severe weight transfer for acceleration and braking. it's a trade-off. more stable = less agile. to say a 1000 "can't corner" is a bit of a stretch - for most street only riders they're essentially the same in that respect, because street riders don't push them that hard. but when being pressed hard on circuit the 600s can be flicked from side to side faster and are set up for more corner speed, as they're not having to deal with as severe braking and acceleration due to the reduced top speed and power output.
Yes mate, i have CBR250RR, RGV250, CBR600RR and CBR1000RR in my garage right now. Check my channel for track time on the 600. how about your own experience? Do you actually own both at the same time? Methinks you do not.
My first bike was Honda CBR954RR from 2003. Everyone was saying "it is too big for you, you are going to crash", but I didn't, though I wasn't fastest rider but everyone can jump on a 1000cc or 600cc bike if they know to control themselves. 600 is easier for everyday use and around town, and guess what, you can die even from a scooter with 50cc so don't be afraid to try bigger bikes.
Cool. It's true. Just buy what you want and like. Never underestimate and always respect the bike, no matter whatever the bike. Don't be afraid to try, and don't be afraid to switch bikes. Both worlds have ups and downs.
My first 6 or 7 years of riding were done on 2-stroke RD250 and RD350's. My first 4 stroke was an '86 FZ600 which I took to the track. I learned that the 4 stroke had a lot more engine braking compared to virtually none on the 2 stroke. However, even with the engine braking if you are not using the real brakes then you are not going fast enough. My pit bike was a 2 stroke YSR 50 that I used to knee drag all over the public roads. I even passed some 600's on my 50. I later had a 2005 Buell XB12 Lightning which I considered the best handling bike I ever rode with all the weight down low on it. Now that I'm older I don't need all that power so I now ride a 1976 RD400. Love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. :)
A 1000cc is like you're standing on a crest that gets narrower and narrower and narrower: put down the power as HAAARD as you can, while successfully 1) not lifting the front 2) not drifting the rear tire too much 3) not running wide. This is the most entertaining puzzle I've ever had to work out. I went from R6 (which was amazing) to R1 and I haven't missed the R6 one bit. I don't grit my teeth on the 600 like I do on the 1000. I don't stir restlessly, thinking all work week about my last wicked rip on the R6. I don't get off the R6 shaking my head, mumbling single-word questions to myself. I could wax on and on about how much more satisfying the R1 is to me. There is no contest for me.
Sacky Chin definitely not wrong..try riding 600 or 1000cc sportsbike on a busy day in india,vietnam or indonesia..everything depends on the purpose and place (a 155cc yamaha scooter has a better acceleration kick than 125 though)
For me that's the number one attraction of a liter bike. Knowing you can either break traction or bring the nose up with enough throttle. I love getting the rear warm enough to power into a straight while holding the front just inches in the air while trying to lean over the windscreen. Hard to get a higher rush than that...
It’s kind of a insane feeling watching this video in May 2022 now that liter bikes are as light as 600’s but pushing out 200+ hp. And yet, all the electronics makes riding the 1000’s way more manageable while 600’s are going extinct. Really enjoyed watching this video and it’s a solid breakdown.
The weight difference is clear as you move around on the bike. The gyroscopic -- as Ash Filmer mentioned -- as well as basic momentum, can be felt in quick direction changes. Another 'factor' to consider is the size and weight of the rider! My 225 pounds on a 600cc bike will be much more of a factor in performance than it will on the more powerful 1000cc bike. Good overall 'comparison' for a person contemplating a purchase. These differences also make a difference on the street. I often ride with some pretty fast riders { Several of them WERA Racers!} up in the Smoky Mountains! I always ride in the back, because they corner faster than I do...BUT my bike has more mid-range power, and my Exit acceleration speeds usually allow me to 'catch up' on the short 'straights' between curves. On a Track, there is no chance for me, because the straights are longer and they get unto the top of their RPMs/Power Band. [I ride an FZ1 that has been 'tweaked' to about 145rwhp, but my powerband is mid-range power (5,000 to 9,000) although the bike will reach 13,500 for a top end of about 170mph. the supersports blow by on the high-speed sections of the track..]
Floyd Burdett well for myself being over 265lbs I know exactly what your talking about. It takes 1000cc for me to accelerate the same as my friends on 600/750. At the end of the fast roads the extra weight shows in my tires as well.
I like a 600 for track days because it made me have to make sure I was doing everything right, using the right gear for the corner, etc. I felt on a litre bike, I could use the torque to cover any mistakes or sloppiness in my riding. Of course, whichever one, I thought the tires were limiting factor if suspension was properly setup. I would love to see a back to back comparison of 600 vs 1000 on the same tires - I would see more litre bike riders on slicks compared to DOT legal track tires on 600s.
I once had a chat with a local pro-rider, who races on national level tournaments. I asked basically the same question: what is better for having fun on the track and get to a good level of skills and riding technique? His reply was something along the lines of: a 600 is going to be the best-most-balanced track weapon one should want to get. 1000cc bikes tend to get riders into bad habits, while 600cc bikes always keep you on point since you don't have the huge power at your fingertips. He was obviously referring to lines and mid-corner speed.
never owned a 750 and currently ride a 1000 but i think that is a very interesting point to be investigated in a follow up video.... could be a good compromise or a waste of time, I'm not going to pretend to know the answer..
Meh, I've tracked an Endurance-kitted 750. It's nothing more than a bored out 600. In the case of the GSX-R 750's it is *literally* what it is, lol. You still have to keep it revving above the "torque bump" and ride it like a 600 with just slightly more power.
Horses for courses. I've grown up racing 250 2's and then on to prod 600. I'm used to revving the hell out of a bike so the lack of mid range isn't such a problem. For me it's about corner speed so a lack of punch in the mid range to drive out is not such an issue. A 750 getting 140 to the rear wheel is all a fast club level rider needs. Any more than that and you're getting into the land of diminishing returns and starting to really to much on rider aids. At our local track the fastest time for a production 600 ( Wayne Maxwell CBR600RR 2009) is 1:32.3 whereas the fastest time for a superbike (Jonathon Rea ZX10RR 2017) was 1:29.6. That's just over 2.5 seconds difference for 50+hp difference and 8 years of technology.
Loved my R6, it was an early 5SL like yours. But I used to close on the litrebikes into corners only for them to disappear on the straights. Frustrating when you can outride them but you can't beat that power. The R6 as you say wasn't necessarily better anywhere, but it was maybe more accessible. Once a litre rider gets used to how and when he can power on though, they will always win.
Simple as that. Because now a days liters bikes can weight just as light as the 600cc bikes. So it's a matter of rider control and understanding of the machine they possess. I know size doesn't always matter. So that's why in thise case size doesn't matter when it comes to handling but it does matter in the outcome of WHO can handle that much size.
Don’t whine. Get a liter bike and outride them. Proof is on the track. -Matt’s dad 600cc Norton Dominator => Triumph 955i triple Both great in their day & way.
I started on a 99 SV650 about 1 year ago on track days. For me its a matter of comfort zone. I'm staying on the 600's for now...maybe for good. Thanks for the vid.
I ride a 1000 on the street and rode an SV650 on the track this past season. I rode, what I felt was extremely fast for a beginner on a small bike. I was able to pass most 600’s. I accredit my quick skill building and confidence to that smaller bike. This season I will use a gsxr600.
Howard Roark I agree. I just started riding track days on a 2016 gsxr 750 in the USA, but typically it's on club level tracks that are smaller and tighter than U.K. tracks. I really miss my 675r cause even though it would be down on power the way it handles would be much better suited to the tracks I'm riding now...
Agreed. I ride a 96' Ducati 944SS. It is heavily modified, and puts out nearly 82 lbs ft. Since the peak torque also presents itself primarily in the mid-range, I change gears less, and it will leave even new, Japanese bikes behind. In a straightaway, a 600 would smoke me.
It's not about the feeling of speed, it was about getting passed on every straight. So I replaced the 750 engine with an 1100. Same corner speed. Now I get passed on the straights rarely.
Being a long time rider 30 years+ and riding many different displacement bikes, I thought your video was done nicely. And yes all sizes give pure enjoyment at different levels. Riding is fun
I started riding the track back in 2006 on my 94 Ducati 900SS, bike was upgraded to the max, I built engine to 966CC, heads worked over by Guy Martin at MBP , knife edged crank, Carrillo rods, ST2 cams, all balanced, cams degree'd to 106 lobe centers and squish set. All buttoned up and running split manifold flat slides she put out 106HP and a very nice flat torque curve of 90+ftlbs. Suspension was all done up with Ohlins internals and rolled on magnesium wheels. Bike was an absolute blast to ride on the track, power, handling and I could match and overtake just about every bike out there until we would hit the long straights where the liter bikes would chew me up and spit me out, then I would spend the next lap catching and passing once again.
Thank you for your explanation of how it went for you. Ive ridden 600s for decades, both street and track, and my first serious track/race bike was also a 1st gen Yam R6. I loved it for the same reasons you say you loved yours. After some years, and other middleweight bikes (R6, CBR6rr, SV650), i have made the jump to a 3rd gen Kawi ZX10r as a trackbike. I have only ridden it for a weekend on track so far, but i have felt the exact same feelings that you have described. Learning to manage that power is looking to be my biggest challenge. thanks for the video and your thoughts on this adjustment. Since my street bike is a Kawi GTR (basically a ZX14 w/ luggage) i hope that this transition wont take too long.
When I was younger I had a KZ 440. My cousin had a Yamaha raiden 600, I rode his 600 and thought it was the fastest most powerful machine around. Later I bought a KZ 1000 j bike and after riding that for a while I again rode the 600 and thought what a small slow bike. True story.
If you don't think 600s have enough power to scare you then your not riding it hard enough. Even with sticky race tires a modern 600 is plenty capable of highsiding you at 100mph at max lean.
It isn't that a 600 isn't scary, it just isn't the same feeling as a 1000. I daily my R1 in a smallish town though, so I pretty much keep it under 6k rpm which still provides plenty of torque. On the 636 I transitioned on from my 300 to the 1000, I never felt power until like 7-7,500. That just makes the 1000 seem more practical to me in an odd way.
Nice side by side comparison. I have just started track days in March with a FX6Shg. So much fun in the corners but a little frustrating on the straights. I plan on staying with my FZ6 for this year....working on basics and getting smooth. Cheers!
My first bike was a 750, i thought it was crazy fast at first but after a few weeks of riding it felt slow. I recently bought a zx9r and I'm in love. The acceleration at highway speed is awesome. 600cc is fun but I like bikes that will pull the front end up without a clutch
My zx636r does my bro without even trying... I own the bike and still fantasize abt it. One gear got a pull like no other instant missile heading into supersonic talk abt thrill💨🤴
My jump was from a 2013 Daytona 675 to a 07 R1 (built) The handling was a sacrifice, but the power and acceleration was amazing. The 675 was something that I could thrash around corners, the r1 was a freeway missel
Never had an R6. I started out on an YZF 750 back in 1993 by 1999 I had 2 of those and upgraded to a 1999 R1. I've done track days on an FZR 400, FZR 600, YZF 600, YZF 750 and on the R1. The R1 at that time was in a league of its own but the thing I liked the most about it was that the engine character of a 1000CC was much more enjoyable to ride on the road while all bikes allowed me to have a great time at the track.
2:00 first time i got on my dad's cb500 twin (with his permission and supervision). "Okay this doesn't feel much different from the 250 it's just a bit rumblier oh it gets even angrier nearing 7k oh it revs even higher whoooooooAAAAWAAAAIT"
Cheers Blake. I only started regularly posting videos this year and things are growing nicely so far. The goal really is to just keep putting out useful information and see where we end up!
The 1000 riders simply weren't as good as the 600 riders. I forgot the name of the interview but rossi was on this topic and he said 600 and 1000 doesn't have a difference if ur a good rider. He said even on a turn heavt track the 1000 would be better if you can ride it
Good vid - I think its also important to mention engine orientation has a lot to do with the character of the engine and it is not dependent solely on displacement. For example - an SV650 is the swiss army knife of bikes. It can do it all. It has that 650 twin that really isnt a powerhouse, but has fantastic torque that can keep smiles on your face. Then take an inline 675 triple and you're getting a pretty good compromise of corner exit drive and high revving jet engine redlines. :) Not all 600's and not all 1000's were cut from the same cloth. Then you can open the same discussion for the liter bikes with twins, inline 4's, and v4's. Each one is it's own character, and each will keep you grinning from ear to ear. :D
I've startet on a 07 fireblade which works pretty well for me. It's actually not that difficult to control and has nice handling too. Last week I tried both the new R6 and the new R1 and I have to admitt that the R6 was a lot easier to ride due to a very smooth power delivery and even better handling. So I guess it's still easier to start on a 600 these days.
Another thing to consider is 1000's will cost more than double in insurance, are usually 5-8k more expensive (U.S.), and are far more expensive in general upkeep and for upgrades. Personally though, I can't ever see myself going back to a small bike after experiencing the outright brutality of a 1k.
Thats exactly how I feel....my first was a 600 and I crushed in 28 days...then I bought a 1000 a month later....I am currently on my 2nd (1000cc) and I am not going back to a 600cc...HELL NO 👎!!
Im from Australia. I do track days at the famous phillip island track. This is one of the fastest tracks in the world. A good rider on a 600 will destroy a average rider on a 1000. The only place where a 1000 will get you is on the straight.
But if you have 2 riders of equal ability with one on a 600 and one on a 1000, of course the 1000 would win. Guys with 600s preach that a 600 is just as fast, simply put.... it isn't
Kai Petty you're right and wrong. With the same skill, the 600 still weighs less, and also can more effectively put power down in the corners. Therefor able to carry higher speeds albeit less power.
Jordan Erickson i totally understand what you're saying and do agree that you can throw a 600 around more but unless the track is a go kart track, a 1000 is faster than traditional a 600 with equally skilled riders. I ride a 1000 and have never been outrun by an equally skilled rider on a 600. That said I have been outrun many times by better riders on a 600 and it's exactly down to what you're saying, the better riders are able to throw it around and carry more speed then me but if they were on a 1000 the gap would have been even bigger...
Jordan Erickson also i suppose it depends on what era of bikes we are comparing too. With many of the current models there isn't really that much difference in weight between a 600 and a 1000, maybe 20lbs or so which obviously has an impact in the corners but is it enough to allow a slightly lighter and considerably less powerful 600 to beat a 1000 over a full lap? If you do track days/racing and look at the time sheets or some googling to compare times you will see that even on tighter tracks the trend is that the 1000's are quicker (although not by as much as on a more open track with longer straights which is like you say down to corner speeds).
No thats no true. You can brake much later on a 600. also carry higher corner speed. Also a 600 is much less intimidating to ride than a 1000. I have had both. With a 600 you a not scared to open the throttle wide open but with a 1000 you feel bit hesitant to do so
The corner speed thing depends almost entirely on weight. Given equal bhp and same rider the lighter machine will always be capable of cornering faster - that why the fastest GP cornering GP bikes were the old 250s (datalogged).
Yeah, the tires, temperature, ABS, traction control and on, on...are all irrelevant to the weight of the bike and not the fact that 160lbs of pudding riding compared to muscle on the same bike. Also, bikes never have and never will 'corner'.
To learn how to race you need to first learn how to ride a slow bike fast. If you start on a 1000 you won't be beating too may 600's even after some time on it. If you start on a 600 in time you'll be beating riders on 1000's who never raced a 600 first. At any track, and the reason is aggression. Track days lack the aggression factor that comes out in racing and that aggression is what mostly overcomes fear. Riding a smaller bike you fear less the sooner you will be able to ride aggressively. The faster you learn to be aggressive and attack the circuit and give no quarter to the enemy the sooner you will being at the pointy end of the race. Starting on a larger bike it'll be a long time if ever you are game enough to ride it aggressively. A rider on a 600 who is aggressive will beat a rider on a 1000 who less so. Not hard if you lunge at corners and then cross their acceleration line to block them getting to top speed on the straight. Once you become an aggressive rider you have that skill and that will carry through to 1000 too. If you ride the 1000 aggressively 600's wont get around you easily.
AuMechanic why even start at 600. You can get decent 300/400 cc machines nowadays on which you can rip the throttle off way faster than you would on a 600. Then go for a intermediate bike then a 1000. What's the hurry. Start small, ride hard, learn fast.
Smooth is smooth, slow is slow. If you have no-one to pass or no-one trying to pass you then keeping it smooth and maintaining high corner speeds will keep times down and may help put some distance between you and those behind, or help you to catch up to others.. And in the wet being smooth it's everything. But when you get to others you need to aggressively prosecute the pass and ride off the line to do it if need be. If you ride behind others and waiting till they make a mistake, before you know it others will be passing both of you from behind.
+Taher, I could not agree more, I started small capacity stock and ended up on 1000cc superbikes. Racing the smaller bike and racing close to others and in a pack of other riders they get to learn from others. They learn the importance of getting the best start to avoid the fight in the first corner. Slip streaming, the best lines for highest corner speeds, out braking, riding off the race line etc. They learn that every small mistake they see one or two riders pass them. And falling off is a fact of racing. They need to start racing something they can afford to crash and a smaller bike will cost less and do less damage to itself when they do fall. I fell off my smaller bike many times and a straightened bits in the pits in time for my next race. Second fall off my superbike ended in a near write off, many thousands to fix and 3 months no racing. It just destroyed itself with all that weight, speed / momentum in it.
I started on an old gsx600f and learn to ride. At the end I was just limited by the bike. But I never reached the end of limit from my r1 but I knew what's happening because of the knowledge of my gsx time.
Good vid. I owned 600cc for 4 years before selling it to upgrade 1400cc. After few years, i really miss my 600cc and decide to get 636cc for my next bike.
That gen of R6 was sooooooo good. I was sad to see it relegated to the "S" model (i.e. affordable option compared to race tech R6). It had the looks, the nimble feel, and the speed, and oh yes, that engine sound. I loved and miss my '03.
That video will definitely be coming in the future, but it just so happens I released an article on this earlier this week. Check it out here... lifeatlean.com/how-to-break-lean-barrier-on-track
@Heads Mess I have a 2017 YZF R3 and I just passed the 20K Marker without any issues. It is the first bike I ever bought and I absolutely love it. It kinda saddens me that you're experience with this bike wasn't great cause it is the best 300cc bike out there(In my opinion of course). But if a Bike fails you like this then I guess it does deserve this kind of judgement
250 cc is my starting bike. Hope in future I will buy a 600 cc sports bike. Why not 1000cc u ask because they are fuel junkies and I do not want to invest so much in a bike when I can have all the fun in 600cc half the price.
I rode the R1 and R6 at silverstone. I ride in the intermediate group. For me the R1 was thrilling to ride but in some ways I preferred the r6. The straights were an issue at silverstone given how fast they are for the r6. But I felt way more confident on the R6 at corner entry. I felt like I could brake way later and lean the bike more. That’s to do with my experience level I guess. Both fantastic bikes regardless. I now have a Tuono factory v4 and it feels like the R6 for agility but has close to the power of the superbikes. It’s so confidence inspiring on track. It never got out of shape. Moral of the story, buy a tuono factory v4 😀
It Boils down to one thing, The Rider, and His or Her Skill level. The 600? Definitely excellent for honing one's skills. 1000? A monster just waiting to be released, But Only in the right capable skillful hands, If said Rider has learned.
Great choice, I started off on a GPz 550 1982 lol, But Hey, I worked my way up the class until, well you get the picture, You be safe buddy, oh and Have eye's in the back of your head, to many cagers out there. Peace
Never rode or owned a motorcycle before. Bought a new 2012 R1 and learned on that. Wasn't difficult and everything felt natural. Very easy to tame. Got my motorcycle license using the R1 as well. My lines are generally like the 600cc line you shown in the vid and can't really see myself using the 1000cc line.
Many years ago I bought my first (and only) 1000cc sport bike (1999 Suzuki TL1000R) after riding a couple of years on my Suzuki Bandit 600. I quickly felt that the TLR was way too much for street riding - like to have fun on it and ride it hard had me riding at speeds WAY beyond safe for public roads. At safe & legal speeds, it was loafing and seemed to always be “tugging at the leash” so to say. In 2005, I bought a new Ducati Monster S2R - 800cc air cooled, 2 valve per cylinder V-Twin with about 80 hp. I bought race fairings for the TLR and it became my track day bike, the Monster was for the streets. I loved that because I could ride the Monster pretty hard on the streets and not find myself at ludicrous speeds as easily as on the TL. The TL on the track was a lot of work to ride it hard but it was a hell of a lot fun to ride without fear of cops, traffic and dangerous road conditions. Seeing my tires with shredded rubber at the edges gave me satisfaction that the bike was being used for what it was built for when I came off the track exhausted from riding near my limit. I’ve found the Monster is more than capable of any street riding I want from it and is always a pleasure to ride. I never feel like it’s “bored” on the streets like I did with the Suzuki.
A 125. Move up as you improve your skills then stay with the bike you feel comfortable with and enjoy.. Do not ever get seduced by thinking bikes with bigger capacity are 'better bikes', they aren't always. Ride the one you like and ignore the Big Piston macho riders: stay safe.
California super bike school said they use the S1000RR because of the electronics. They can put beginners and experts on the same bike in different modes and they’ll all make reasonable progress.
I raced a 2006 R6 in WERA and CCS. One big advantage of running a 600 for track days and club racing.... cost. They are more common, so spare parts are cheaper. Also, you may have a higher chance of borrowing or buying spares that you may need while at the track. For example, I always brought spares with me in case I had a low side and needed new clip ons, a shift lever, or a tank. Spares on Ebay are much cheaper and easier to find.
Nicely put! i went from a 650 to a 1000cc and yes i mostly agree with you..i still scream into corners but as you mentioned the track i take through the corner changed a little to utilize the 155 horses at the rear wheel better...love my sticky tire...trust your rubber lol
Woa, Aprilia RS250 is my dream bike! Unfortunately they're quite expensive and rare to get so I haven't been able to get one yet . I used to have a 125, loved to ride that one on countryside roads, had to keep shifting gears which made riding more interesting. Rode on a 250 a few times, seemed like a much quicker 125 but just as much fun. The problem I have with the 1000 that I can just keep it in one or two gear(s) when riding on normal roads, everything just seems easier. With my 125 (and few times I rode an 250) I really had to work for it in order to keep up with my mates. Oh, and two strokes are just fun to tinker around with :)
I,m 67 ride a Yamaha FZ1 . Its not as crazy as R1 but I have rode it 135,000k,s never dropped it. It way to fast for street. I still love it Ive never done a track day . But I love the open road.It so much fun coming out of a corner and hitting the limiter.
1000 vs 600 is not track dependant. For example I race at a track called broadford. It s little, tight track. only 2km long. The lap record set here is a guy on a 600. Then at phillip island a 1000 will bet a 600 down the straight but a 600 will bet 1000 everywhere else. The only way a 1000 will bet a 600 is if you have some like rossi ride both bikes and it will only be a few seconds difference.
something1random23 drag strips aren't tracks. They're strips. I'll you have to worry about is going straight. Which i know isn't easy on a drag bike but a stock streetbike on a drag strip vs a track it is much easier to go straight than to ride the track and takes little skill to perform well. Again that is for stock bikes only, not purpose built drag bikes.
Nobody ever said a race track needs to have sharp curves. "A race track (or "racetrack", "racing track" or "racing circuit") is a facility built for racing of vehicles, athletes, or animals (e.g. horse racing or greyhound racing)."
something1random23 but we are comparing actual skill not speed. It's obvious a 1000cc bike will beat a 600 in a drag race. Takes very little skill to make a 1000cc go fast.
Some tracks have more straights than others. That's obvious too, making things track dependent. It takes little skill to make a 1000 cc go fast? I hate to break it to you, but it's a lot harder to reach the limit of the capabilities of a 1000 cc bike compared to a 600 cc bike in general, under any situation, including a drag race. Even the OP of this thread admitted that if you have the skill, the 1000 cc will always be faster.
In my group of friends, I was arguably the fastest, ballsiest of the group. I rode a 600. Now, my mate with a liter bike had far more experience and could catch me on the straights but in the corners, I was gone. The moral of the story, the bikes are about equal with a slight edge given to the smaller displacement with a competent rider. The answer to the question is to have both in your garage and ride the hell out of them. 😀
Simple question - what size are the bikes in motogp? Answer - not 600s. In the real world, it’s what you’re comfortable and capable on. But if we are asking which is faster on a track, all things being equal, obviously the answer is not a 600. If you were to ask me which to buy, I’d be suggesting a 600. Mostly because the majority of people I have crossed paths with were riding a bike with more cc than skill level.
most sport bike riders havent ridden real dirt bikes offroad,they can teach you skill sets which transfer on the street or on road quite well!that being said its about feel,all about feel,which bike,its characteristics,your style how well you feel in sync.the right tune for your style.
I like how you broke it down. It left me wanting to say one thing that is why the 750cc was the best of both worlds. I am not your typical motorcycle rider. I am much heavier than the average rider. I found my FZR 600 to struggle a little bit. When I got the bigger motorcycle it did not seem to be an issue. You do ride a 600 much differently than you do the heavier bikes. It is very interesting to hear you talk about the tricks of the trade. I will tell you it is easier for me to go from my larger bike to the smaller one then it is for me to go from the smaller 1 to the bigger 1 even on the same day. On the smaller bike I feel like I have to take more risk and be more precise. On the larger bike I feel like I can be more comfortable everything seems to happen smoother I do not feel like I have to hold my lean as deep or as long. Also, you do not have to shift as much the powerband is larger.
At the time of thid video I was riding a road bike CBR 600. I wanted a track only bike, not especially a bigger one, but I had a very good opportunity on a GSXR 1000. Now I regret absolutely nothing. The power is massive, such a pleasure to use. Having to fight with the bike to put down the front wheel at high speed is kind of fun. Also after 2 track days I'm already 11s faster per lap. At the end of the day I'm crazy tired though, it's a lot more demanding. Yes I use nowhere near the full potential of the bike, however I'm definitely having more fun
The sheer amount of development that happens in the liter class is reason enough for me to tilt their way. Middleweight sports bikes seem like they're just not receiving as much attention. The R6 in this video can still reasonably hold its own against many middleweights out there today, I'd say - probably not a huge gap. I rode one for a bit (on the street, but still) and I was impressed with how it compared to 600s I'd ridden made in this decade. It felt just as light (if not lighter), steered quickly, inspired confidence, etc. Compare an '00s literbike to one made in the past four years. It's probably down 20+ HP, is heavier, and has no electronic rider aids to speak of. Liter development is just so much more aggressive, IMO. A newer track rider could, if they wish to limit themselves, put their 1000cc bike in "rain mode" so the power is smooth, not "scary," etc. California Superbike School does just this with their BMWs (at least for the first few sessions). On a side note, I've been watching a few videos from this channel as I've recently gotten back into riding and am always looking for refreshers/tips/things that can translate to more fun/rewarding (yet safer) road riding. Keep up the great work! You've got another subscriber.
even in the quarter mile a liter bike has 1.0 seconds of a difference. more horsepower low end torque and top speed yes the liter bike has it.. i own a 600 i have ridden plenty of 1000cc's on the track and street. 60 -120mph is not a big difference. No one with any logical sense is doing 60-120mph on the streets.
I agree with the 0 to 60 assessment. What we are not talking about is that a bike that carries more corner speed (like a 250 gp) doesn't have to accelerate as quickly to match lap times as a bike that has to slow more for the corners. If a bike can take a corner at 30 mph faster than another, that is 30 mph less that it needs to accelerate to match the speed of the other bike on the straights. Six hundreds don't weigh enough less than the liter bikes to make up for the power advantage of that the 1000s enjoy. If the 600s weighed less they could carry more speed in the corners and negate the power advantage more effectively. The Australian race in the 2008 250 gp series was run on the same track (Philip Island) as the 2009 World Superbike and Supersport Australia events. The 250 gp bikes were lapping within half a second of the Superbikes while the Supersports were 2 to 3 per lap seconds slower.
Enjoyed your comments regarding this video, i too, started off on a Honda CB 600F back in the day and still remember the thrills of mixing it in the hills around Brisbane Qlds with mates riding mixed CC powered Bikes. Later i moved up to a GSX1000 and it took me a while to get use to riding confidently in the Hills with mates. The 600 was so much fun, the 1000 you have to be more on your A game. Enjoyed both Machines, but for me the 600 was a lot more fun in tight corners then the 1000. My opinion anyway on the straights, will 1000 all day
Riding a 600 but having taken out a Fireblade SP cannot agree more with the conclusion. The litrebike is a handful when it comes to trying to get the juice to the road without a) picking the front up or b) sliding the rear. Even Michael Dunlop said when he first stepped up to a 1000 in racing, it absolutely took him for a ride and he pretty much just hung on for dear life. And that's from a guy who was already a professional racer by the time he got up to the big bikes.
I agree with most of whats being said here. I had a 2007 R6 SE(yellow flames) it kept up with the 1000cc's until the long straights and the low end torque made the bike leap like a frog!!! Then I moved up to my current '06 GSXR1,so much more obvious power,I really didnt want to come out of 2nd gear
Learned on a VFR400, 2yrs of track days and racing. Then had a break for 4yrs (read had kids). Decided to make a come back, was adamant about getting a 600, got talked into a thou by a mate, picked up a RSV4 and couldn't;t be happier!! No I can't ride it to it's potential... but GOD DAMN do I have the most fun and biggest fuckn smile on my face trying to wrestle it around my locals tracks. Ride what you want, they've all got their pros and cons, decide whats right for you and your ability then fuck everyone else :)
As a bike enthusiast and owner of multiple liter bikes but only one 600cc, the R6, I can definitely attest to the fact that the R6 makes you a better rider and keeps you on point with your shifting and throttle control. With my liter bikes, I tend toward being a bit lazy as they can easily scream out of a corner into a straight and catch/overtake most other riders. With the R6, you need to be on top of your game . That being said, there is that feeling at times with the liter bike that going into a corner too fast gets you nervous which I dont feel on the 600. I will say the bike Matters!! if asked to choose for a race, I would choose my 2017 S100RR over my 2017 R6 ANY day!
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I went from a Kawi liter bike to a Honda 600rr after I wrecked my Kawi (on the street, of course). I was in my mid-seventies, and decided a 600 might be easier on the old bod. What I found was that I had to ride better on the smaller bike -- faster in turns -- because I couldn't just twist the throttle on the big bike and catch up with other riders on the straights. Did my last track day at the age of 78, and still ride the 600 in the hills of northern California almost every weekend.
OG
The GOAT
respect my man, respect
Hope I still have all my marbles to be able to keep riding when I get to that age!
Sir, you sound bad ass.
I believe that one of the most important human factors when riding is fear. The most dangerous is ego. Fear keeps you safe by instilling respect in most cases. Ego gets you hurt or worse.
I think fear also causes accidents, too much fear I mean.
well said man
Well said my friend u seem lk a experience rider ..stay safe
@@jerryrivera7704 well, im 50 now and started learning to ride at 8. My moms friend was a dirt bike racer and he thought me that fear is necessary. Not only for riding but life. 😎🏍💨👍
So true
I started track days with a R3 300. After a couple track days I moved up to a GSXR 600 for more straightaway speed. Went faster every session with the 600, but was still intimidated by the power and speed as a newbie. After about 6 months of at least 1 track day every month(I live in Florida), I went back to the 300 to learn how to "ride" faster. I plan on starting to race next season on the 300. I highly recommend a 300 if you're brand new to track riding. Main thing is take it easy, go step by step and ride safe and have fun.
For me my best ever all round Track Bike was a GSXR750. I have owned many 1000cc and currently run an MV F3 800 on track but the GSXR750 still takes a lot of beating.
Coming from a zx6r to a Cbr1100xx, i guess something in the middle like a gsxr750 would give the best track performance. 150 hp for a 750 is insane, Even by todays standard.
Yep Gixxer fer sure..... Ive got both 99 750 srad ,, Close to origianal looks, But with mods.. + I have a 05 Cbr 1000 rr, Pipe PC KnN Gixxers a blessing on d twistys .... CBR ,,,, Cant use the extra HP ,,, Wants to launch into the tree tops Scarey
Gixxer 750 would be my ultimate pick for a track day bike
One drunken night at the Nurburgring a few of us got into a conversation of what would be a good bike to not only ride there but what would break the Bridge to Gantry lap record. A 600 superport bike was mentioned (Ok not road legal, which the need to be to do the touristfahn sessions, but it was a suggestion). So when we got home my best mate suggested we use his crashed Suzuki GSXR600 to build a bike to try and set a good lap time. A few more chats with numerous suppliers and a magazine to see if they wanted to print the project and its progress later and the project started. The key was chassis and weight loss more than engine tuning, So a set of larger GSXR750 throttle bodies (from a breakers) and a set of cams from Kent cams and that was as deep as we went into the motor. Durbahn in Germany helped with some carbon weight loss and Bitubo helped with the suspension. The bike was built and as much weight loss as possible was done then the bike was set up at Mallory Park by my best mate and my good friend Luke Stapleford. The bike was about to go to Germany and we just found the MV Agusta 312 had set a new Lap record with Andy Carlisle riding the 312. He was the guy I had lined up to ride the 600 too... After a long conversation with him he felt the 600 would not get close as the MV Agusta was set up for the Nurburgring and carried corner speed higher than the other bikes he had ridden. But the wheels were in motion and Bridgestone had sent 5 sets of tyres to Andy for the article. After a couple of weeks he finally got round to doing a few hot laps... First attempt the video camera had stopped working. The next attempt it worked well enough to show the start and finish of the lap but was a bit dull with shots of the ground or his hand for much of the lap. But it was enough.. The 600 broke the lap record with a 7m 18 second lap. The key was the power was enough to get the speeds needed but not so much torque the bike was trying to spin up and spit you off the bike. It could carry so much corner speed that it was scary. It made the ultimate trackday bike for someone who actually wanted to ride the corners as hard as they dare and not the typical slower trackday throttle twister who wobbles round the corners and drag races on the straights... A good 600 can still lap faster than almost ANY bike at a trackday if you are really trying to improve your riding and want to experience major lean angles and push the grip as hard as you dare. A 600 is a riders bike... A 1000 is for those who are either mega fast on a 600 already or just want to have something that will scare them and not spend hour after hour understanding how to carry corner speed.
Richard Vanags this must have taken a day to write
+Ryan D ...and well worth it. An excellent post with great insight, proven by the poster in this case.
Long read, but worth it was a pleasure really.
Don't believe a 600 can lap faster than almost any bike at a trackday. Because that is the rider, not the bike. Put the same rider on a 1k and he will lap faster.
@@adamutuber if he is competent, experienced, and the track is suitable.
I was 69 years old running a 1991 TZR 250 at the California Superbike School. There were some cornering situation wherein the little 2T would pass a BMW S 1000 RR. Of course, on the straights I was at about at least 120hp disadvantage.
Riding a highly capable small bike to near its limit is much more fun than struggling with a faster big bike that you cannot possibly exploit.
The important thing for me is , when you go to the track , go as fast as you can within your limits, feel you are like Rossi, Marquez or Stoner. Then you , your mates & your bikes go home in the same condition you went . Happy safe riding to all. 👍
Sure it depends on the rider but stock or even modified the electronics, suspension tires and overall hardware is better on a 1000
The Muscle Biker thats a big generalisation. A 2018 R6 doesnt have worse gear on it than a 1998 R1.
@@vytas5584 lol 🤡 that's 20 years bro
There exacly the same thing even same weight in some specs or possibly 15 pounds off. A r1 is better then a r6 in every way. The only difference is one a beginer shouldnt ride because to much twisting of the throttle will make it wheelie and if you dont know how to come down from a wheelie your probaly gonna crash. Idk why everyones so confused about this. It hasnt been since the 90s that a cbr 1000 and a cbr 600 100 pounds apart and that could affect how you lean the bike how easy it is. Now a r6 and r1 a cbr600 and a cbr1000 can be the exact same weight with option or max like 20 pounds off.
My 08 cbr600 seemed to have better if not way better hardware than the 954 i had, or tl i had. I was much more comfortable on it too. But i suppose now im looking for a 08 cbr1k so what do you do.
I started in a 1000 and have been working my way back ever since. Smaller engines have really forced me to improve my riding!!
I love both!
I ride a 1000cc bike on the track it’s just for pure emotions!
A 600cc is for perfect lines and training just perfec!
Good to have both
AeroR Entertainment 🎥🏍💨🎬
I have a 2012 ZX10r and an 2011 r6. It is great!
so why a 1000cc cant corner?
they can't corner as well as the bike's geometry is set up to be more stable at high speed and more capable of handling more severe weight transfer for acceleration and braking.
it's a trade-off. more stable = less agile.
to say a 1000 "can't corner" is a bit of a stretch - for most street only riders they're essentially the same in that respect, because street riders don't push them that hard. but when being pressed hard on circuit the 600s can be flicked from side to side faster and are set up for more corner speed, as they're not having to deal with as severe braking and acceleration due to the reduced top speed and power output.
both
Yes mate, i have CBR250RR, RGV250, CBR600RR and CBR1000RR in my garage right now. Check my channel for track time on the 600. how about your own experience? Do you actually own both at the same time? Methinks you do not.
My first bike was Honda CBR954RR from 2003. Everyone was saying "it is too big for you, you are going to crash", but I didn't, though I wasn't fastest rider but everyone can jump on a 1000cc or 600cc bike if they know to control themselves. 600 is easier for everyday use and around town, and guess what, you can die even from a scooter with 50cc so don't be afraid to try bigger bikes.
donmlaaden great bike. Own one too. Using vfr 800 for every day use. 954 is only for nice dry weather 😅
I Began on a cbr500r with 47 ph and switch to a zx10r with about 200 ph and i can drive it , so youre right
Yeah honestly a 600 won’t kill you especially In low rpms
Cool. It's true. Just buy what you want and like. Never underestimate and always respect the bike, no matter whatever the bike. Don't be afraid to try, and don't be afraid to switch bikes. Both worlds have ups and downs.
My first 6 or 7 years of riding were done on 2-stroke RD250 and RD350's. My first 4 stroke was an '86 FZ600 which I took to the track. I learned that the 4 stroke had a lot more engine braking compared to virtually none on the 2 stroke. However, even with the engine braking if you are not using the real brakes then you are not going fast enough. My pit bike was a 2 stroke YSR 50 that I used to knee drag all over the public roads. I even passed some 600's on my 50. I later had a 2005 Buell XB12 Lightning which I considered the best handling bike I ever rode with all the weight down low on it. Now that I'm older I don't need all that power so I now ride a 1976 RD400. Love the smell of 2 stroke in the morning. :)
A 1000cc is like you're standing on a crest that gets narrower and narrower and narrower: put down the power as HAAARD as you can, while successfully 1) not lifting the front 2) not drifting the rear tire too much 3) not running wide. This is the most entertaining puzzle I've ever had to work out. I went from R6 (which was amazing) to R1 and I haven't missed the R6 one bit. I don't grit my teeth on the 600 like I do on the 1000. I don't stir restlessly, thinking all work week about my last wicked rip on the R6. I don't get off the R6 shaking my head, mumbling single-word questions to myself. I could wax on and on about how much more satisfying the R1 is to me. There is no contest for me.
600cc sport bikes are rubbish? Lol so many guys on 1000cc bikes get beat by 600cc riders.
@@Adrenalean767 And so many 600's get beat by me on my R3
@@Abyssdiver u didn't beat the bike.u beat the rider
@@Adrenalean767 exactly it does not matter what you are on if you can ride good
@@Abyssdiver sometimes skills ain't enough tho.
125 gearless scooter is the best. Maybe I'm wrong. Not ridden anything else ever.
aditya thakur definitely wrong
Sacky Chin definitely not wrong..try riding 600 or 1000cc sportsbike on a busy day in india,vietnam or indonesia..everything depends on the purpose and place (a 155cc yamaha scooter has a better acceleration kick than 125 though)
the nmax? No thank you. I'll take my Vario 125
aditya thakur Activa wale😜
I waved to a scooter by accident this weekend. those things look hard these days.
For me that's the number one attraction of a liter bike. Knowing you can either break traction or bring the nose up with enough throttle. I love getting the rear warm enough to power into a straight while holding the front just inches in the air while trying to lean over the windscreen. Hard to get a higher rush than that...
like ghostrider?
Am looking at getting AR 1 Healtech Module ,, Tame / tune the" Beast "
It’s kind of a insane feeling watching this video in May 2022 now that liter bikes are as light as 600’s but pushing out 200+ hp. And yet, all the electronics makes riding the 1000’s way more manageable while 600’s are going extinct. Really enjoyed watching this video and it’s a solid breakdown.
The weight difference is clear as you move around on the bike. The gyroscopic -- as Ash Filmer mentioned -- as well as basic momentum, can be felt in quick direction changes. Another 'factor' to consider is the size and weight of the rider! My 225 pounds on a 600cc bike will be much more of a factor in performance than it will on the more powerful 1000cc bike.
Good overall 'comparison' for a person contemplating a purchase. These differences also make a difference on the street.
I often ride with some pretty fast riders { Several of them WERA Racers!} up in the Smoky Mountains! I always ride in the back, because they corner faster than I do...BUT my bike has more mid-range power, and my Exit acceleration speeds usually allow me to 'catch up' on the short 'straights' between curves. On a Track, there is no chance for me, because the straights are longer and they get unto the top of their RPMs/Power Band. [I ride an FZ1 that has been 'tweaked' to about 145rwhp, but my powerband is mid-range power (5,000 to 9,000) although the bike will reach 13,500 for a top end of about 170mph. the supersports blow by on the high-speed sections of the track..]
Floyd Burdett well for myself being over 265lbs I know exactly what your talking about. It takes 1000cc for me to accelerate the same as my friends on 600/750. At the end of the fast roads the extra weight shows in my tires as well.
I like a 600 for track days because it made me have to make sure I was doing everything right, using the right gear for the corner, etc. I felt on a litre bike, I could use the torque to cover any mistakes or sloppiness in my riding.
Of course, whichever one, I thought the tires were limiting factor if suspension was properly setup. I would love to see a back to back comparison of 600 vs 1000 on the same tires - I would see more litre bike riders on slicks compared to DOT legal track tires on 600s.
I once had a chat with a local pro-rider, who races on national level tournaments.
I asked basically the same question: what is better for having fun on the track and get to a good level of skills and riding technique?
His reply was something along the lines of: a 600 is going to be the best-most-balanced track weapon one should want to get. 1000cc bikes tend to get riders into bad habits, while 600cc bikes always keep you on point since you don't have the huge power at your fingertips.
He was obviously referring to lines and mid-corner speed.
Kid574 thank you for this intelligent structured comment
Well said from that local racer
Well if u put a Rossi on a 600 and a 1000 on a Track, the Winner will be the 1000cc bike but what you do with it is a diferent story.
Another good point
Depends on the track as well
I think Rossi on a KTM Super Duke 1290 R, and on a R1 , the SD 1290 will win.
@@p.chakraborty4453 ya you must be minimum WSBK ready to fight him on random bikes!
@@IBringYouFire 😂
My thoughts? A well sorted 750!
never owned a 750 and currently ride a 1000 but i think that is a very interesting point to be investigated in a follow up video.... could be a good compromise or a waste of time, I'm not going to pretend to know the answer..
Karl Walters 750 = 0-60 in 3 sec and 125-135mph in 10-10.5
What was pointless?
Meh, I've tracked an Endurance-kitted 750. It's nothing more than a bored out 600.
In the case of the GSX-R 750's it is *literally* what it is, lol. You still have to keep it revving above the "torque bump" and ride it like a 600 with just slightly more power.
Horses for courses. I've grown up racing 250 2's and then on to prod 600. I'm used to revving the hell out of a bike so the lack of mid range isn't such a problem. For me it's about corner speed so a lack of punch in the mid range to drive out is not such an issue. A 750 getting 140 to the rear wheel is all a fast club level rider needs. Any more than that and you're getting into the land of diminishing returns and starting to really to much on rider aids. At our local track the fastest time for a production 600 ( Wayne Maxwell CBR600RR 2009) is 1:32.3 whereas the fastest time for a superbike (Jonathon Rea ZX10RR 2017) was 1:29.6. That's just over 2.5 seconds difference for 50+hp difference and 8 years of technology.
Loved my R6, it was an early 5SL like yours. But I used to close on the litrebikes into corners only for them to disappear on the straights. Frustrating when you can outride them but you can't beat that power. The R6 as you say wasn't necessarily better anywhere, but it was maybe more accessible. Once a litre rider gets used to how and when he can power on though, they will always win.
Simple as that. Because now a days liters bikes can weight just as light as the 600cc bikes. So it's a matter of rider control and understanding of the machine they possess. I know size doesn't always matter. So that's why in thise case size doesn't matter when it comes to handling but it does matter in the outcome of WHO can handle that much size.
I hear yah man ,,, The more twisty the better ... Be smooth and consistant .... getter did!
Don’t whine. Get a liter bike and outride them. Proof is on the track.
-Matt’s dad
600cc Norton Dominator => Triumph 955i triple
Both great in their day & way.
I started on a 99 SV650 about 1 year ago on track days. For me its a matter of comfort zone. I'm staying on the 600's for now...maybe for good. Thanks for the vid.
My pleasure!
Good choice. Smart move. Enjoying the bike is everything...
I ride a 1000 on the street and rode an SV650 on the track this past season. I rode, what I felt was extremely fast for a beginner on a small bike. I was able to pass most 600’s. I accredit my quick skill building and confidence to that smaller bike. This season I will use a gsxr600.
To me, this is track dependent. If it is a long, wide track, a 1000. If it is a tight, technical track, 600. This is my take. Awesome video, Sir!
Howard Roark you are absolutely right
Howard Roark I agree. I just started riding track days on a 2016 gsxr 750 in the USA, but typically it's on club level tracks that are smaller and tighter than U.K. tracks. I really miss my 675r cause even though it would be down on power the way it handles would be much better suited to the tracks I'm riding now...
Agreed. I ride a 96' Ducati 944SS. It is heavily modified, and puts out nearly 82 lbs ft. Since the peak torque also presents itself primarily in the mid-range, I change gears less, and it will leave even new, Japanese bikes behind. In a straightaway, a 600 would smoke me.
750: Best of Both Worlds
R7
My zx750. 1995 was the best of both worlds for not crashing pulling out of turns. Fast best paint ever made
It's not about the feeling of speed, it was about getting passed on every straight. So I replaced the 750 engine with an 1100. Same corner speed. Now I get passed on the straights rarely.
Being a long time rider 30 years+ and riding many different displacement bikes, I thought your video was done nicely. And yes all sizes give pure enjoyment at different levels. Riding is fun
I had a BMW K1200r, it had enough torque to pull my arms off when I opened the throttle but it steered like a canal boat
I started riding the track back in 2006 on my 94 Ducati 900SS, bike was upgraded to the max, I built engine to 966CC, heads worked over by Guy Martin at MBP , knife edged crank, Carrillo rods, ST2 cams, all balanced, cams degree'd to 106 lobe centers and squish set. All buttoned up and running split manifold flat slides she put out 106HP and a very nice flat torque curve of 90+ftlbs. Suspension was all done up with Ohlins internals and rolled on magnesium wheels. Bike was an absolute blast to ride on the track, power, handling and I could match and overtake just about every bike out there until we would hit the long straights where the liter bikes would chew me up and spit me out, then I would spend the next lap catching and passing once again.
It would have been nice if you shared with us the difference in your lap times going from your 600 to your liter bike
Thank you for your explanation of how it went for you. Ive ridden 600s for decades, both street and track, and my first serious track/race bike was also a 1st gen Yam R6. I loved it for the same reasons you say you loved yours. After some years, and other middleweight bikes (R6, CBR6rr, SV650), i have made the jump to a 3rd gen Kawi ZX10r as a trackbike. I have only ridden it for a weekend on track so far, but i have felt the exact same feelings that you have described. Learning to manage that power is looking to be my biggest challenge. thanks for the video and your thoughts on this adjustment. Since my street bike is a Kawi GTR (basically a ZX14 w/ luggage) i hope that this transition wont take too long.
When I was younger I had a KZ 440. My cousin had a Yamaha raiden 600, I rode his 600 and thought it was the fastest most powerful machine around. Later I bought a KZ 1000 j bike and after riding that for a while I again rode the 600 and thought what a small slow bike. True story.
Thumbs up from California, where at 55, I'm still enjoying my the '86 Ninja ZX600R that I purchased back in Jan.'90.
The answer is obvious: GSX-R 750. Owned it, loved it, miss it.
GI D
Super awesome bike
I’d love to see 750’s come back to form.
Sucks that they are killing off the 750.
What about the electrical issues? Stators and rectifier
Damn straight! I had one as well, owned it, loved it, miss it.
In the 80s, We used to say our 750s could out handle anything we couldn't outrun.
Then YAMAHA made a 1000, smaller and lighter than our 750s.
Dude, this video was 🔥. Just what I was looking for.
If you don't think 600s have enough power to scare you then your not riding it hard enough. Even with sticky race tires a modern 600 is plenty capable of highsiding you at 100mph at max lean.
Valentin Debise during the 2018 Daytona 200.
It isn't that a 600 isn't scary, it just isn't the same feeling as a 1000. I daily my R1 in a smallish town though, so I pretty much keep it under 6k rpm which still provides plenty of torque. On the 636 I transitioned on from my 300 to the 1000, I never felt power until like 7-7,500. That just makes the 1000 seem more practical to me in an odd way.
Michael Twining bs...my fz07 one wheel till 3rd maxing gears still doesn't scare me...it makes me want more!!
Michael Twining and I haven't lost a light to light or 1/4 run yet...
We aren't talking about scaring yourself on your commute to work here.
Nice side by side comparison. I have just started track days in March with a FX6Shg. So much fun in the corners but a little frustrating on the straights. I plan on staying with my FZ6 for this year....working on basics and getting smooth. Cheers!
I think you need to highlight more about the braking and the weight of the bike. Tyre degradation and even Traction control on more modern machines.
My first bike was a 750, i thought it was crazy fast at first but after a few weeks of riding it felt slow. I recently bought a zx9r and I'm in love. The acceleration at highway speed is awesome. 600cc is fun but I like bikes that will pull the front end up without a clutch
My zx636r does my bro without even trying... I own the bike and still fantasize abt it. One gear got a pull like no other instant missile heading into supersonic talk abt thrill💨🤴
@@rainakingjimg8183 ngl the new 636's are fast af
My jump was from a 2013 Daytona 675 to a 07 R1 (built)
The handling was a sacrifice, but the power and acceleration was amazing. The 675 was something that I could thrash around corners, the r1 was a freeway missel
I know it! same bike
*missile. Simpleton.
If you pronounced it correctly that tells you how to spell it.
@@markfox1545Stop whining.
I just picked up another bike for track day a r1m and the handling I'd say is better than my Daytona 600
Never had an R6. I started out on an YZF 750 back in 1993 by 1999 I had 2 of those and upgraded to a 1999 R1. I've done track days on an FZR 400, FZR 600, YZF 600, YZF 750 and on the R1. The R1 at that time was in a league of its own but the thing I liked the most about it was that the engine character of a 1000CC was much more enjoyable to ride on the road while all bikes allowed me to have a great time at the track.
2:00 first time i got on my dad's cb500 twin (with his permission and supervision). "Okay this doesn't feel much different from the 250 it's just a bit rumblier oh it gets even angrier nearing 7k oh it revs even higher whoooooooAAAAWAAAAIT"
Your channel is amazing im suprised you dont have more subscribers! Great content man keep up the awesome work!
Cheers Blake. I only started regularly posting videos this year and things are growing nicely so far. The goal really is to just keep putting out useful information and see where we end up!
Depending on the track , local track here 600cc holds lap record and has held it for a long time
very interesting! that's great though. It may be a very turn heavy track without many straight aways. Is that the case?
Has to be…
The 1000 riders simply weren't as good as the 600 riders. I forgot the name of the interview but rossi was on this topic and he said 600 and 1000 doesn't have a difference if ur a good rider. He said even on a turn heavt track the 1000 would be better if you can ride it
This video was exactly what I was looking for! Thank you!
Good vid - I think its also important to mention engine orientation has a lot to do with the character of the engine and it is not dependent solely on displacement. For example - an SV650 is the swiss army knife of bikes. It can do it all. It has that 650 twin that really isnt a powerhouse, but has fantastic torque that can keep smiles on your face. Then take an inline 675 triple and you're getting a pretty good compromise of corner exit drive and high revving jet engine redlines. :) Not all 600's and not all 1000's were cut from the same cloth.
Then you can open the same discussion for the liter bikes with twins, inline 4's, and v4's. Each one is it's own character, and each will keep you grinning from ear to ear. :D
my sv650 was a wheelie machine. so much fun.
One of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. Thanks for helping me on the way to choosing my first track bike
I've startet on a 07 fireblade which works pretty well for me. It's actually not that difficult to control and has nice handling too. Last week I tried both the new R6 and the new R1 and I have to admitt that the R6 was a lot easier to ride due to a very smooth power delivery and even better handling. So I guess it's still easier to start on a 600 these days.
I am just getting ready for a track days and kind of getting hooked to watching your channel. Thanks you for sharing!
First video I’ve seen of your channel. Good review. Keep it up. 👍🏼
Cheers Fox! Will do!
Another thing to consider is 1000's will cost more than double in insurance, are usually 5-8k more expensive (U.S.), and are far more expensive in general upkeep and for upgrades. Personally though, I can't ever see myself going back to a small bike after experiencing the outright brutality of a 1k.
Thats exactly how I feel....my first was a 600 and I crushed in 28 days...then I bought a 1000 a month later....I am currently on my 2nd (1000cc) and I am not going back to a 600cc...HELL NO 👎!!
Im from Australia. I do track days at the famous phillip island track. This is one of the fastest tracks in the world. A good rider on a 600 will destroy a average rider on a 1000. The only place where a 1000 will get you is on the straight.
But if you have 2 riders of equal ability with one on a 600 and one on a 1000, of course the 1000 would win. Guys with 600s preach that a 600 is just as fast, simply put.... it isn't
Kai Petty you're right and wrong. With the same skill, the 600 still weighs less, and also can more effectively put power down in the corners. Therefor able to carry higher speeds albeit less power.
Jordan Erickson i totally understand what you're saying and do agree that you can throw a 600 around more but unless the track is a go kart track, a 1000 is faster than traditional a 600 with equally skilled riders. I ride a 1000 and have never been outrun by an equally skilled rider on a 600. That said I have been outrun many times by better riders on a 600 and it's exactly down to what you're saying, the better riders are able to throw it around and carry more speed then me but if they were on a 1000 the gap would have been even bigger...
Jordan Erickson also i suppose it depends on what era of bikes we are comparing too. With many of the current models there isn't really that much difference in weight between a 600 and a 1000, maybe 20lbs or so which obviously has an impact in the corners but is it enough to allow a slightly lighter and considerably less powerful 600 to beat a 1000 over a full lap? If you do track days/racing and look at the time sheets or some googling to compare times you will see that even on tighter tracks the trend is that the 1000's are quicker (although not by as much as on a more open track with longer straights which is like you say down to corner speeds).
No thats no true. You can brake much later on a 600. also carry higher corner speed. Also a 600 is much less intimidating to ride than a 1000. I have had both. With a 600 you a not scared to open the throttle wide open but with a 1000 you feel bit hesitant to do so
The corner speed thing depends almost entirely on weight. Given equal bhp and same rider the lighter machine will always be capable of cornering faster - that why the fastest GP cornering GP bikes were the old 250s (datalogged).
Yeah, the tires, temperature, ABS, traction control and on, on...are all irrelevant to the weight of the bike and not the fact that 160lbs of pudding riding compared to muscle on the same bike. Also, bikes never have and never will 'corner'.
To learn how to race you need to first learn how to ride a slow bike fast.
If you start on a 1000 you won't be beating too may 600's even after some time on it.
If you start on a 600 in time you'll be beating riders on 1000's who never raced a 600 first.
At any track, and the reason is aggression.
Track days lack the aggression factor that comes out in racing and that aggression is what mostly overcomes fear.
Riding a smaller bike you fear less the sooner you will be able to ride aggressively.
The faster you learn to be aggressive and attack the circuit and give no quarter to the enemy the sooner you will being at the pointy end of the race.
Starting on a larger bike it'll be a long time if ever you are game enough to ride it aggressively.
A rider on a 600 who is aggressive will beat a rider on a 1000 who less so.
Not hard if you lunge at corners and then cross their acceleration line to block them getting to top speed on the straight.
Once you become an aggressive rider you have that skill and that will carry through to 1000 too.
If you ride the 1000 aggressively 600's wont get around you easily.
slow is smooth ,,, and smooth is fast
AuMechanic why even start at 600. You can get decent 300/400 cc machines nowadays on which you can rip the throttle off way faster than you would on a 600.
Then go for a intermediate bike then a 1000.
What's the hurry.
Start small, ride hard, learn fast.
Smooth is smooth, slow is slow.
If you have no-one to pass or no-one trying to pass you then keeping it smooth and maintaining high corner speeds will keep times down and may help put some distance between you and those behind, or help you to catch up to others..
And in the wet being smooth it's everything.
But when you get to others you need to aggressively prosecute the pass and ride off the line to do it if need be.
If you ride behind others and waiting till they make a mistake, before you know it others will be passing both of you from behind.
+Taher, I could not agree more, I started small capacity stock and ended up on 1000cc superbikes.
Racing the smaller bike and racing close to others and in a pack of other riders they get to learn from others. They learn the importance of getting the best start to avoid the fight in the first corner.
Slip streaming, the best lines for highest corner speeds, out braking, riding off the race line etc.
They learn that every small mistake they see one or two riders pass them.
And falling off is a fact of racing.
They need to start racing something they can afford to crash and a smaller bike will cost less and do less damage to itself when they do fall.
I fell off my smaller bike many times and a straightened bits in the pits in time for my next race.
Second fall off my superbike ended in a near write off, many thousands to fix and 3 months no racing.
It just destroyed itself with all that weight, speed / momentum in it.
I started on an old gsx600f and learn to ride. At the end I was just limited by the bike. But I never reached the end of limit from my r1 but I knew what's happening because of the knowledge of my gsx time.
Good vid. I owned 600cc for 4 years before selling it to upgrade 1400cc. After few years, i really miss my 600cc and decide to get 636cc for my next bike.
You upgraded to the 636. Good choice.
That gen of R6 was sooooooo good. I was sad to see it relegated to the "S" model (i.e. affordable option compared to race tech R6). It had the looks, the nimble feel, and the speed, and oh yes, that engine sound. I loved and miss my '03.
The golden era
Smart insight! thanks for posting with nice images as a bonus! cheers from canada :)
Please do a tip video or and in depth how to lean your bike! I need to remove my fear of falling when I lean lol.
That video will definitely be coming in the future, but it just so happens I released an article on this earlier this week. Check it out here... lifeatlean.com/how-to-break-lean-barrier-on-track
Good debate. Always comes down to the rider, always. Great vid.
I have 250 I don't have feelings.
lmao same
😂😂😂
I have a 250 too and love hunting guys on 1000cc bikes...
@Heads Mess I have a 2017 YZF R3 and I just passed the 20K Marker without any issues. It is the first bike I ever bought and I absolutely love it. It kinda saddens me that you're experience with this bike wasn't great cause it is the best 300cc bike out there(In my opinion of course). But if a Bike fails you like this then I guess it does deserve this kind of judgement
250 cc is my starting bike. Hope in future I will buy a 600 cc sports bike. Why not 1000cc u ask because they are fuel junkies and I do not want to invest so much in a bike when I can have all the fun in 600cc half the price.
Thank you bro for the best video that has ever been made on this topic period !
loved your style and the video as a whole
Happily subscribed :)
In corners I'm faster with my girlfriends 125 than I am on my 600 haha
I have a Z125 and just bought a ninja 650. I cant wait to get to the track.
Smaller lighter, flicks faster on corners and throttle is forgiving. And smaller tires are key.
I rode the R1 and R6 at silverstone. I ride in the intermediate group. For me the R1 was thrilling to ride but in some ways I preferred the r6. The straights were an issue at silverstone given how fast they are for the r6. But I felt way more confident on the R6 at corner entry. I felt like I could brake way later and lean the bike more. That’s to do with my experience level I guess. Both fantastic bikes regardless. I now have a Tuono factory v4 and it feels like the R6 for agility but has close to the power of the superbikes. It’s so confidence inspiring on track. It never got out of shape. Moral of the story, buy a tuono factory v4 😀
It Boils down to one thing, The Rider, and His or Her Skill level. The 600? Definitely excellent for honing one's skills. 1000? A monster just waiting to be released, But Only in the right capable skillful hands, If said Rider has learned.
Great topic guys, my mind is made up to use a CBR 600 RR to get used to it before even thinking about anything bigger. Super video Thanks
Great choice, I started off on a GPz 550 1982 lol, But Hey, I worked my way up the class until, well you get the picture, You be safe buddy, oh and Have eye's in the back of your head, to many cagers out there. Peace
Never rode or owned a motorcycle before. Bought a new 2012 R1 and learned on that. Wasn't difficult and everything felt natural. Very easy to tame. Got my motorcycle license using the R1 as well. My lines are generally like the 600cc line you shown in the vid and can't really see myself using the 1000cc line.
600 for the track 1000 for the road. And it's not about speed. They will both go much faster than ever required.
Many years ago I bought my first (and only) 1000cc sport bike (1999 Suzuki TL1000R) after riding a couple of years on my Suzuki Bandit 600. I quickly felt that the TLR was way too much for street riding - like to have fun on it and ride it hard had me riding at speeds WAY beyond safe for public roads. At safe & legal speeds, it was loafing and seemed to always be “tugging at the leash” so to say. In 2005, I bought a new Ducati Monster S2R - 800cc air cooled, 2 valve per cylinder V-Twin with about 80 hp. I bought race fairings for the TLR and it became my track day bike, the Monster was for the streets. I loved that because I could ride the Monster pretty hard on the streets and not find myself at ludicrous speeds as easily as on the TL. The TL on the track was a lot of work to ride it hard but it was a hell of a lot fun to ride without fear of cops, traffic and dangerous road conditions. Seeing my tires with shredded rubber at the edges gave me satisfaction that the bike was being used for what it was built for when I came off the track exhausted from riding near my limit. I’ve found the Monster is more than capable of any street riding I want from it and is always a pleasure to ride. I never feel like it’s “bored” on the streets like I did with the Suzuki.
Great and honest vid. A hard topic to conquer, but done well.
Shoud l bigenner start at a 400 or less ?
a lot more
Yea even 400 may be a bit hard but 125-300 is a good start
A 125. Move up as you improve your skills then stay with the bike you
feel comfortable with and enjoy.. Do not ever get seduced by thinking
bikes with bigger capacity are 'better bikes', they aren't always.
Ride the one you like and ignore the Big Piston macho riders: stay safe.
California super bike school said they use the S1000RR because of the electronics. They can put beginners and experts on the same bike in different modes and they’ll all make reasonable progress.
Xingyu Zhang yeah until they realise a litre bike is 10x heavier than something like a 300
Why does everyone in England add the world "Bloody" in front of every word ?!
PS: Your video was Bloody good !
part of the education system
I raced a 2006 R6 in WERA and CCS. One big advantage of running a 600 for track days and club racing.... cost. They are more common, so spare parts are cheaper. Also, you may have a higher chance of borrowing or buying spares that you may need while at the track. For example, I always brought spares with me in case I had a low side and needed new clip ons, a shift lever, or a tank. Spares on Ebay are much cheaper and easier to find.
nah nah nah nah 300 for the track, makes you a way better and faster rider
Nicely put! i went from a 650 to a 1000cc and yes i mostly agree with you..i still scream into corners but as you mentioned the track i take through the corner changed a little to utilize the 155 horses at the rear wheel better...love my sticky tire...trust your rubber lol
I'm mortified of a 1000+cc bike. I have a 650 and I'm just fine with that. I'm not a racer so for my riding i dont need it
You're what? Mortified means "embarrassed". Do you mean terrified, which means "scared"?
That was excellent! I know have a much clearer view of the debate! Thank you!!
Ridden both but prefer my little Aprilia RS250. Not the fastest in straight lines but their easy.
+A_Sensible_Young_Man you should be an English teacher
Woa, Aprilia RS250 is my dream bike! Unfortunately they're quite expensive and rare to get so I haven't been able to get one yet . I used to have a 125, loved to ride that one on countryside roads, had to keep shifting gears which made riding more interesting. Rode on a 250 a few times, seemed like a much quicker 125 but just as much fun. The problem I have with the 1000 that I can just keep it in one or two gear(s) when riding on normal roads, everything just seems easier. With my 125 (and few times I rode an 250) I really had to work for it in order to keep up with my mates. Oh, and two strokes are just fun to tinker around with :)
I love the screams of my 600 at high revs. 1000 sounds the same, but way deeper and louder
neither. superbikes will always be 750cc fours for me!
hold'er Newt - You will not get many arguments about those 750s as superbikes
I,m 67 ride a Yamaha FZ1 . Its not as crazy as R1 but I have rode it 135,000k,s never dropped it. It way to fast for street. I still love it Ive never done a track day . But I love the open road.It so much fun coming out of a corner and hitting the limiter.
1000 vs 600 is not track dependant. For example I race at a track called broadford. It s little, tight track. only 2km long. The lap record set here is a guy on a 600. Then at phillip island a 1000 will bet a 600 down the straight but a 600 will bet 1000 everywhere else. The only way a 1000 will bet a 600 is if you have some like rossi ride both bikes and it will only be a few seconds difference.
Not track dependent? Try a drag strip lol.
something1random23 drag strips aren't tracks. They're strips. I'll you have to worry about is going straight. Which i know isn't easy on a drag bike but a stock streetbike on a drag strip vs a track it is much easier to go straight than to ride the track and takes little skill to perform well. Again that is for stock bikes only, not purpose built drag bikes.
Nobody ever said a race track needs to have sharp curves.
"A race track (or "racetrack", "racing track" or "racing circuit") is a facility built for racing of vehicles, athletes, or animals (e.g. horse racing or greyhound racing)."
something1random23 but we are comparing actual skill not speed. It's obvious a 1000cc bike will beat a 600 in a drag race. Takes very little skill to make a 1000cc go fast.
Some tracks have more straights than others. That's obvious too, making things track dependent. It takes little skill to make a 1000 cc go fast? I hate to break it to you, but it's a lot harder to reach the limit of the capabilities of a 1000 cc bike compared to a 600 cc bike in general, under any situation, including a drag race. Even the OP of this thread admitted that if you have the skill, the 1000 cc will always be faster.
In my group of friends, I was arguably the fastest, ballsiest of the group. I rode a 600. Now, my mate with a liter bike had far more experience and could catch me on the straights but in the corners, I was gone. The moral of the story, the bikes are about equal with a slight edge given to the smaller displacement with a competent rider. The answer to the question is to have both in your garage and ride the hell out of them. 😀
Simple question - what size are the bikes in motogp? Answer - not 600s. In the real world, it’s what you’re comfortable and capable on. But if we are asking which is faster on a track, all things being equal, obviously the answer is not a 600. If you were to ask me which to buy, I’d be suggesting a 600. Mostly because the majority of people I have crossed paths with were riding a bike with more cc than skill level.
You didn't listen to the video did ya
most sport bike riders havent ridden real dirt bikes offroad,they can teach you skill sets which transfer on the street or on road quite well!that being said its about feel,all about feel,which bike,its characteristics,your style how well you feel in sync.the right tune for your style.
Not much difference u r kidding yourself. 1000rr is a monster.
but its harder to ride.. smaller bike you can max it even in cornets. try to flat out 1000 in corner ..off you go ..
I like how you broke it down. It left me wanting to say one thing that is why the 750cc was the best of both worlds. I am not your typical motorcycle rider. I am much heavier than the average rider. I found my FZR 600 to struggle a little bit. When I got the bigger motorcycle it did not seem to be an issue. You do ride a 600 much differently than you do the heavier bikes. It is very interesting to hear you talk about the tricks of the trade. I will tell you it is easier for me to go from my larger bike to the smaller one then it is for me to go from the smaller 1 to the bigger 1 even on the same day. On the smaller bike I feel like I have to take more risk and be more precise. On the larger bike I feel like I can be more comfortable everything seems to happen smoother I do not feel like I have to hold my lean as deep or as long. Also, you do not have to shift as much the powerband is larger.
better ride my 110cc yamaha cub fast than ride a R1 slow ...
At the time of thid video I was riding a road bike CBR 600. I wanted a track only bike, not especially a bigger one, but I had a very good opportunity on a GSXR 1000.
Now I regret absolutely nothing. The power is massive, such a pleasure to use. Having to fight with the bike to put down the front wheel at high speed is kind of fun. Also after 2 track days I'm already 11s faster per lap. At the end of the day I'm crazy tired though, it's a lot more demanding.
Yes I use nowhere near the full potential of the bike, however I'm definitely having more fun
250 is best
250 1 cylinder are the best!! 1 cylinder powwaaa
SlimJimmy That good ole' grom power baby. Str8 Beeaaast.
Maybe if its a 2 stroke
75 dk 2stroke with weight less 150 kg seems fun hahah
91-94 Honda CBR250RR 💪
Best 250cc bike
The sheer amount of development that happens in the liter class is reason enough for me to tilt their way. Middleweight sports bikes seem like they're just not receiving as much attention. The R6 in this video can still reasonably hold its own against many middleweights out there today, I'd say - probably not a huge gap. I rode one for a bit (on the street, but still) and I was impressed with how it compared to 600s I'd ridden made in this decade. It felt just as light (if not lighter), steered quickly, inspired confidence, etc. Compare an '00s literbike to one made in the past four years. It's probably down 20+ HP, is heavier, and has no electronic rider aids to speak of. Liter development is just so much more aggressive, IMO. A newer track rider could, if they wish to limit themselves, put their 1000cc bike in "rain mode" so the power is smooth, not "scary," etc. California Superbike School does just this with their BMWs (at least for the first few sessions).
On a side note, I've been watching a few videos from this channel as I've recently gotten back into riding and am always looking for refreshers/tips/things that can translate to more fun/rewarding (yet safer) road riding. Keep up the great work! You've got another subscriber.
A 1000cc is 0.3-0.5 seconds 0 to 60mph faster than my stock 2007 cbr 600. I have no interest in buying a 1000cc
Do a roll on in any gear and the 1000 will eat a 600. It's not even close (I've owned both and currently ride a R6)
If you are trying to go fast on a 600 you have to use the gearbox.
0-60 on a bike is irrelevant though. 60-120 and the litre bike is gone.
even in the quarter mile a liter bike has 1.0 seconds of a difference. more horsepower low end torque and top speed yes the liter bike has it.. i own a 600 i have ridden plenty of 1000cc's on the track and street. 60 -120mph is not a big difference. No one with any logical sense is doing 60-120mph on the streets.
I agree with the 0 to 60 assessment. What we are not talking about is that a bike that carries more corner speed (like a 250 gp) doesn't have to accelerate as quickly to match lap times as a bike that has to slow more for the corners. If a bike can take a corner at 30 mph faster than another, that is 30 mph less that it needs to accelerate to match the speed of the other bike on the straights.
Six hundreds don't weigh enough less than the liter bikes to make up for the power advantage of that the 1000s enjoy. If the 600s weighed less they could carry more speed in the corners and negate the power advantage more effectively.
The Australian race in the 2008 250 gp series was run on the same track (Philip Island) as the 2009 World Superbike and Supersport Australia events. The 250 gp bikes were lapping within half a second of the Superbikes while the Supersports were 2 to 3 per lap seconds slower.
Enjoyed your comments regarding this video, i too, started off on a Honda CB 600F back in the day and still remember the thrills of mixing it in the hills around Brisbane Qlds with mates riding mixed CC powered Bikes. Later i moved up to a GSX1000 and it took me a while to get use to riding confidently in the Hills with mates.
The 600 was so much fun, the 1000 you have to be more on your A game. Enjoyed both Machines, but for me the 600 was a lot more fun in tight corners then the 1000. My opinion anyway on the straights, will 1000 all day
The answer is... electric.
LS-218 lightning baby!!
I wouldn’t want to ride electric in the streets. Already hard to see me. Can’t hear me coming? Go ahead and t-bone me or cross in front of me.
I guess you only please your girl with electrical toys??
Riding a 600 but having taken out a Fireblade SP cannot agree more with the conclusion. The litrebike is a handful when it comes to trying to get the juice to the road without a) picking the front up or b) sliding the rear. Even Michael Dunlop said when he first stepped up to a 1000 in racing, it absolutely took him for a ride and he pretty much just hung on for dear life. And that's from a guy who was already a professional racer by the time he got up to the big bikes.
1000 > 600.
This was a great video and explaining. I love riding and look forward to check this channel more!
I own a CBR1000RR SP road bike... But have just bought a ZX6R for the track..... Perfect 👌
I agree with most of whats being said here. I had a 2007 R6 SE(yellow flames) it kept up with the 1000cc's until the long straights and the low end torque made the bike leap like a frog!!! Then I moved up to my current '06 GSXR1,so much more obvious power,I really didnt want to come out of 2nd gear
Learned on a VFR400, 2yrs of track days and racing. Then had a break for 4yrs (read had kids). Decided to make a come back, was adamant about getting a 600, got talked into a thou by a mate, picked up a RSV4 and couldn't;t be happier!! No I can't ride it to it's potential... but GOD DAMN do I have the most fun and biggest fuckn smile on my face trying to wrestle it around my locals tracks. Ride what you want, they've all got their pros and cons, decide whats right for you and your ability then fuck everyone else :)
As a bike enthusiast and owner of multiple liter bikes but only one 600cc, the R6, I can definitely attest to the fact that the R6 makes you a better rider and keeps you on point with your shifting and throttle control. With my liter bikes, I tend toward being a bit lazy as they can easily scream out of a corner into a straight and catch/overtake most other riders. With the R6, you need to be on top of your game . That being said, there is that feeling at times with the liter bike that going into a corner too fast gets you nervous which I dont feel on the 600. I will say the bike Matters!! if asked to choose for a race, I would choose my 2017 S100RR over my 2017 R6 ANY day!