If there are enough owners with the weld problems, there may be the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Grand Design. With the cost of these units, quality should be their first priority.
Always somebodys answer, sue them, class action lawsuit. Good luck with that, GD has deep pockets and will tie this up in court for years. and you will spend thousands on lawyers. You will have to prove without a doubt it was their fault, they are already mentioning overweight. And if you scale it now and it's ok they will still say you overloaded it at some point. Time to sell the garbage and move on.
The bad thing about class action suits is, the lawyers get $546,000,000 and each plaintiff gets a coupon for $3 off their next purchase of a Grand Design product.
I would sue the crap out of that company, what a joke their quality or lack of quality is. I hope your videos get millions of views, and nobody buys their pieces of crap. Thanks for letting us know these companies are not worth supporting
My local RV dealer has GD products marked down 50% to 60%......lot full of junk.....which all RV's are, they come from factory ready to start falling apart.
Those welds are terrible - why wouldn’t grand designs bring in a welder from the frame/ chassis vendor? They obviously don’t have welders in house. I could make better welds and I took welding 40 yrs ago in HS. Too cold
I think the RV manufacturers have come to the conclusion that it is not in their best financial interests to warranty the junque they manufacture. Plus, if you say anything negative in a public way, you become persona non grata instantly. Where was the number for that attorney???
We had a Grand Design it was cheap garbage. The said they wouldn't honor the warranty after 9 days when it flooded. They lied to us and it was a horrible experience. Never again! Check recalls and class action lawsuits these things are dangerous!
The whole industry needs to be held accountable along with all the RUclipsrs i.e. Josh, JD and others that make excuse after excuse and we can't leave out the GD fan boy forums. My wife and I love the look and layout of our Imagine but it has been nothing to problems from our very 1st trip.
yea those welds are bad ive been a welder for a long time and they wonder way there frames are coming apart if that the kind of work I would get a good lawyer and sue the hell of them but its leppert who built the frame but grand design engineered it
For some reason this big rv community never got together to have a petition to make the rv builders and dealers get regulated. Quality, warranty, service and so on
I would be sick if I had the problems you’re having. Have you thought of finding a law firm that does class action suits? I bet you could gather plenty of prospects that would join you? It’s so sad this happens with such expensive purchases
I will say, I do notice that a LOT of these failures happen on these 45' Momentums that owners have loaded up the front end with big solar/big batteries systems. I believe owners are NOT overweight, but the frames were not designed/constructed to handle how heavy owners are making the nose of the fifth wheel. -------- Grand Design spent 20 years building a great reputation and destroyed it in one year. If I were CEO, we would stop production of any new large momentums until the frame was completely reengineered. At the same time, they need to develop a specific engineered solution to all units already on the road. They need to set up AND TRAIN STAFF to retrofit this solution and have it available to all units no matter how old they are. This would be an investment in Grand Designs future marketing/sales. They COULD have come out looking like heros. Instead, their name is now mud. We were close to buying a Grand Design SPECIFICALLY because of how they had always taken care of their customers. -------- OH, and I would document everything, grab all past weight scale receipts you have and hire one of those mad dog crazy screaming lawyers on TV.
Wow, I've had four Battleborn batteries in our coach now for a couple of years, and never had an issue, so it was sure nice to hear they went over and beyond for you! Any time I had a question, they were good at getting back to me with an explanation, so KUDOS to Battleborn Lithium batteries! As for what I might do, it would be to fix, sell and try a Brinkley perhaps, or one of the other choices that would put a smile on your face!
Geoff, after you weigh and measure your trailer maybe take it to a certified weld shop to get their opinion, on the repairs previously made and the framing
As a Certified RV Tech I have considerable hands on experience with RV's and Horse Trailers. The difference in robustness in chassis is striking and in the cases I've been asked to comment on it is clear that chassis flexion is the cause of many RV chassis failures.
Here in the PNW a lot of us are buying horse trailers with living quarters and converting them into toy haulers for our UTV’s since regular toy haulers are such junk and can’t handle leaving paved roads. A used horse trailer is very cheap and much stronger built then factory toy haulers.
Another grand design frame flex failure. Maybe contact big truck big rv as he's collecting data. Same with paving new paths. They've got some groups forming on this seemingly common grand design issue.
i know people in California with the same frame problems. they hired an attorney to have their 5th wheels lemon lawed. they all got their money and expenses back. i would think the rest of the country should be the same. as far as your fuel pump, it is not the fuel. it is a poorly designed pump. additives will not help. most fuel in the USA is clean. the pump is a cheap piece of crap. buy a ram Cummins. good luck.
I bought a grand design 303 in 2021 because of their supposed quality. It’s a smaller 5th wheel, just hoping the problem is not as prevalent. I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and outcomes.
Lucky you dont have a brand new ford...the engineers decided that it would be better to drive the high pressure pump with the camshaft...so when they fail it locks up the engine... bending all the pushrods when the valves slam into the top of the pistons which bends them also but wait it gets better...the crank gear sprocket is pressed onto the crank which isn't held in position with a keyway so it also spins on the crank when everything else crashes into each other...damn near total rebuild at that point since you can no longer time the engine with that crank gear out of time😂
Per the frame issues applies to all RVs with Lipbert frames you can file a recall notice go to the NHTSA file for a Recall spread this. Once a VIN is on notice and others follow the manufactures will have to no choice but to fix. The NTSHA has an easy to file process just enter the VIN and report this issue. Both Lipbert and the RV manufactures will have to comply and give over their specs and data to the NHTSA for review.
Your videos are the reason I refuse to buy a Grand Design. Once my current RV is paid off/sold/ or destroyed… I’ll never buy another RV again. Ownership of an RV really opened my eyes. It’s as if they’re all built in China. Piss poor quality at best and it only gets worse from there.
I think this thing with frame flex and extreme poor quality started in COVID. We have a 2016 Open Range Light 5th wheel and have had zero problems with it, so far. We've been on several months long, across America trips, and many local area trips but are not full timers. Could fail this year, who knows. But all RVs are not bad.
I am personally in a battle with Forest River that is quite disgusting but I have a neighbor at the park I’m in with a brand new Grand Design. So much is wrong with it they have had to cancel plans and so much more. Looks like the sale of the company changed the great reputation they DID have. It is pathetic what these companies are doing.
you mentioned in this video that you’re going to weigh your RV “have you not done that before ? Ever? Have you never weighed anything that you brought into the RV? have you not weighed every single thing that you put into that RV ? For the last 45 or 50 years? I’ve always had a scale by the steps whenever anything was brought into my RVs. I weighed everything, most people do not do that. I’ve always done that Ive owned in excess of 27 RVs 17 of them fifth wheels I have never ever had an issue with tires, frame, or my hitch assembly, nothing whenever I have friends or newbies that I know that are buying their first RV I always suggest to them that they weigh everything, nope, falls on deaf ears, till the tire wear and blowouts start. One time during a camparama, w 20 of us, one of them had his RV was significantly overweight, by 1147 pounds, a scale will give you a total weight, a scale, a pen and pad will give you a running total weight. I’d suggest you bring your Rv to a heavy duty truck shop w a frame machine, pay them to check it out, open it up. It’s much more ammunition for you instead of novices playing Dr. trying to convince a judge of your novice determination versus a pro. Good luck
Maybe Grand Designs owners need to do like the farmers and Truckers. All drive to the factory, encircle it and refuse to leave until your issues are addressed. Live stream the process to youtube and the media. You have all paid for warrenty in the purchase price. You also all have the right to reasonably expect proper engineering. and design.
Your frame issue is a design flaw. The frames used for your, I assume 42 foot plus rigg, is the same frame support members sizes used in all models of Grand Designs from the shortest, lightest, 5th wheel to the longest, heaviest. Just a little longer and maybe with a few more cross members. But essentially the same frame components. The design of a 5th wheel frame is such that the forces created by the bumps in the road are highest at the points at the start, or beginning of the welds where the upper platform connects to the lower platform. And where the frame cantilevers over the axles. A lot on constant bending / flex. Over time and use the welds begin to "unzip" shall we say. Think of it in simpler terms. When you see a highway bridge you will notice where the steel is over a pier in the center of the highway the steel is thicker and more reinforced. That's where all the weight is sitting. Your axles are no different. The biggest portion of the RV's weight sits right over your axils. The whole back half of you RV has no support. It is like a big springboard. The heavier the RV the greater this effect. The frame components should have been up-sized or reinforced as the riggs got bigger. They are not because of the added weight. So Grand Designs is actually right, it is overweight, and they can't fix it. But is their design, so if they have a structural warranty, they are responsible. There is a limit to size and weight you can go without respacing your axles. Truckers do this all the time. Have fun.
" If you do/did this, you will void your warranty." Well, over the years ALL THE COURT SYSTEMS AND THE FTC have said that is wrong. Last year the FTC sent out seven warning letters reminding major corporations about this. Under federal warranty laws, NOTHING voids your warranty, until and unless the warrantor has proven beyond any question that YOUR MOD was the specific cause for the warranty failure. Somehow it seems all service managers, dealer managers, and their lawyers have not heard about this for over a decade. All it takes to blow out a complete electrical system, is to WELD on a vehicle without disconnecting the battery grounds. GRAND DESIGN knows the problem. Lying about this a criminal fraud. The courts award triple damages plus lawyer and cost fees for triple fraud. And collateral and punitive damages. And you take the case to federal court, in your district, so they have to spend money sending their lawyers and team down to Miami for every court appearance, convenient to you. Pick the lawyer with the most expensive car and sharpest filed teeth. A real sharp one will file a class action suit, with you as the lead plaintiff. That way you get paid first. Could bankrupt Grand Design. TFB.
Wow! I'm so sorry you and many others are having all these issues with poorly designed frames. I had no idea anything like this was happening, I'm very new to RV's and just now learning of the problems.
Man I feel for you. I would say do everything you need to do legally to get this resolved. Years ago I had issues with a Dodge 1500 extended cab truck purchased new from a local dealer.After working with them multiple times to get the issues resolved, I made the decision to take a loss and trade it off for another brand vehicle. The loss stung for quite some time. I just mentally couldn't stand dealing with it. Best of luck. I'll be watching and rooting for you.
And now it’s your responsibility to spread the word about fuel additives. I HIGHLY recommend Hot Shot Every Day Diesel. It’s high quality and can be found in most auto stores and definitely at Tractor supply. It’s not that expensive either. It can also be mixed with their anti gel products if you ever decide to travel in cold climates. ❤❤❤ We got you brother !
@@Billybob50119 It’s actually a great design, unfortunately it’s just meant to run on high sulfur fuel which we do not have here in the US. In Germany they have practically NO issues with them because of the high lubricity of their fuel. So just call it what it is…..a great design but is being improperly implemented by American truck manufacturers. Just run a good fuel additive, drain the separator monthly and change both filters every other oil change.
@pavingnewpaths just posted a video about their GDRV doing nothing for them today. Probably better off not wasting time for it to fail again like yours.
I hauled gas and diesel fuel to stations for 20 yrs , used to be we had #2 and #1 fuel , then it went to off road fuel and dpfo road fuel dyed accordingly. Then came ultra low sulfur diesel fuel , sulfur is a lubricant they started putting bean oil in different ratios b11 b20 b22 etc. Then they came with bio- mass- chicken fat and other nasty stuff, the problem we had was that crap would splash blend while loading and the shit would freeze in the winter and the blends were never accurate. Not sure but I think some of the blends have some ethanol in them now
Regarding the CP4 pump . The pump is just a poor design plain and simple. Fuel quality for sure is a factor in pump failure . If the dealer told you your whole truck warranty would be void if you put in a different fuel pump then he is NOT being truthfull with you . That’s not how it works.
We first saw a Grand Design trailer at a show in 2015 and were very impressed with the quality. Since they sold out to Winnebago they've turned into poor quality like most towable RVs. There's only a few companies I would consider buying and Grand Design is certainly not one of them anymore.
Take all ur problems and documents,go to better business bearu in every state you have had dealings with GD,also go to the attorney General in your state and file a complaint and it never hurts to get your state representative involved,you would be surprised how these people can help u if have a legitimate proublem,and u do
I did not read every comment so this may have been mentioned. It will likely/ be an arduous process but I’d start with creating a list of all owners with this issue. By creating a class and with subpoena power, this list should be easy to obtain. Once you have the class you’ll file in court in Indiana. You should be able to find an attorney who does this stuff. Then you wait it out. My heart goes out to you because you can’t really live in your rig unless you simply park it. I have been in two of these cases as a complainant so I’ve a vague idea how it works. It takes patience and commitment but you have them by the you know what and there’s an army of disgruntled folks behind you. Go get them. So glad we went with Brinkley!
@@MyBucketListDay and I just saw the newest small Z the 3110. It takes the north south bed from the 2900 and the walk through bath with the hall closet. All reasons I rejected the 3100. And it add a bunk house with a door and loads of storage plus a bigger theater sofa and a better fold out bed if needed with a removable dinette. We both snore and hubby has frequent bouts of insomnia plus needing a bathroom so we do not share a bed. This model will give him his own bed and eliminate sofa. And his own tv. Perfect.
My impression is that you have not been getting your rig weighed, and if you do not have certified weight receipts to prove the weight of your rig over a given period of time grand design will use that against you if you ever get to court.
That sounds about right for Grand Design not standing behind their products. We are going through about the some issues with Keystone. We are tired of these lemons.
My wife and I are in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. We liked the model you have & almost bought one in the fall of ‘23 & with all we have been hearing our minds have changed. We will be looking into other brands that are custom built and manufacture their own frames. We wish you all the best and pray this company steps up to the plate.
We hired an attorney do deal with our issues. Different trailer manufacture but Lippert frame and axels. They told us, and had us sign the warranty papers for Dexter ("High Quality Axels") and that was with the price was higher. Axels were Lippert and the wheels were not welded on to the axel straight. The problems went up from there. :( Our court date is in May and we are asking them to but it back. We'll see what happens.
I think I would definitely hire a lawyer and go after Grand design! I can actually say my Forest River toy hauler i bought in 2015 has held up really good!
Forest River i had to throw the keys to them. It was a complete piece of junk. I walked away from it and it cost me big time but i just bit the bullet.
Lawyer Up!!!! Get ALL of the AMMO you can, get everyone that has had problems with their Grand Design RV's and do a Class Action Mass Tort Litigation Lawsuit against GD!
I was part of a class action when computer screens were deceptively advertised and won so I would reach out and try to find grand design owners like you. Maybe you can find a marketing company to get a list of owners. It's worth a try . Good luck.
Sorry about all the problems, one thing to think about now is that if that king pin area completely fails and causes an accident, you have already documented prior knowledge of the damage. Be careful driving that thing around now. Not a matter of IF it fails but when. good luck
Take to to a truck frame straightener, sister in welded steel to strengthen the frame to control the extreme flexing going on. Park it, sell it as repaired to someone willing to accept the risk, and sue for your losses, including a prayer for treble damages to punish them for such a shoddy product. Not a lawyer but what I'd do.
I would contact the National Traffic Safety Bureau and make them aware of the unsafe products on the highway. Nothing gets a companies attention like a NTSB mandated recall.
I was looking for a momentum toy hauler and stumbled across this video and have since watched a few more. Thanks for showing this. Just saved me 100k. I wouldn’t have one if you gave it to me.
They need either a decent fully boxed frame in these things or a frame that continues up the front and over the roof then back down to the sides. Or something. But Way more $$ and no one buys them now because they are way over priced. They are all defective because of being under built.
Just got my 2023 grand design TT back from some "warranty " work. One of the things we had issues with was that the trailer brakes were not adjusted and did not engaged at all. This happened on 2 of my trucks, one brand new. It wasn't an issue with the truck. They refused to pay for a simple break adjustment to eliminate a potentially dangerous issue. I'm not especially happy with their "warranty" or the dealership.
I'm not sure who the STOP signs are for on the bike path as ya''ll blew thru several of them while talking. On a different note, I've heard that Ford has started voiding warranties claiming fuel contamination as the reason for failure of their pumps. Just something you might want to be aware of if you have a CP4 pump failure in the future.
I was ready to pull the trigger on a GD Imagine 3100RD. But after watching yours and other GD owner's videos RE frame flex and a plethora of other shoddy workmanship issues, I'm SO glad I waited to purchase. And then, as though it were manna from heaven, Brinkley descended from the clouds enveloped in golden light and well.....Grand Design who? Gimme shelter @BrinkleyRV!
@@MyBucketListDay We went to the Tampa Super RV show specifically to look at the new Brinkley travel trailer, but decided it was not the floor plan we are hoping for. BUT! We were assured that there are more TT floor plans coming down the pike so we're waiting for those to come out. Then we'll buy. If it's not Brinkley, it's not going to be anything. That's how dead-set I am on buying a Brinkley.
@@MyBucketListDay By the way, I'm not sure a class action suit will be most helpful to you and others who are experiencing the same flex frame issues. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the only ones who benefit from class action suits are the lawyers. The goal for owners is to have the frames fixed *properly* and at the manufacturing company's expense, not the poor owner who purchased the RV in good faith, and the only way I can see that happening is if you take the issue to the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. The NHTSA can and will push the manufacturers for recalls when customers report the same issues and if successful, that is how you can receive satisfaction.
GD is a big company , your only choice is to hire an RV lawyer who specializes in this type of case, big business will only start to take you serious, if you start action and if it comes to that they may in the end not let you tell us about your outcome as they will make you sign a non disclosure agreement , they don’t like lawyers, because they know you are now serious, also add in the settlement , suffering from stress and duress during all these issues, it’s very hard for big business to establish a cost on your health
You come across as a gentleman and a very kind, down to earth guy. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us. I could purchased an rv but have decided against it based on the negatively.
Oh my goodness when they said you were overweight I thought they meant you were to fat for the RV. I had a good laugh at myself whenI realized what they meant.
Time for a large group of people to see your lawyers and start up a class action lawsuit asap. Yes the lawyers will cost you money at first. The longer people leave this, the more dangerous your units will become from all there garbage equipment they supplied you with. I can see this being the end of Grand Designs in 3 years.
Curious to see your weights. Usually full timers carry a lot of xtra weight and with the expansive solar equipment up front as well as a generator u could be overloading your pin
Actually, I weighed everything prior to installing and we only added 187Lb's with all the Victron and batteries, and then another 60Lb's with wiring and battery frame. We removed the lead acid batteries and the factory inverter that weighs 112Lb's, so our net add in weight was only 135Lb's
Time for legal advice. Your rig should be lemon law’ed Geoff. Maybe a class action lawsuit if they will not replace your rig. Now I am seriously concerned about them repairing our frame flex. -Pete
Many things are in motion, yes, be concerned and take many notes and film all you can. Tell them up front you want to see pictures of all work prior to them putting it all back together. I asked for Pictures and got a few but not as many to show all the work they claimed to have done. Had I received pictures, I would have never left the service shop because they clearly did not fix what they said they did.
Lawyer time!!!! Disgusted with Grand Design!!!!
If there are enough owners with the weld problems, there may be the possibility of a class action lawsuit against Grand Design. With the cost of these units, quality should be their first priority.
Yes, I'm asking all who do to email me directly. MyBucketListDay!gmail.com
@@MyBucketListDay also review case law. Every successful class settlement results in precedent setting.
Always somebodys answer, sue them, class action lawsuit. Good luck with that, GD has deep pockets and will tie this up in court for years. and you will spend thousands on lawyers. You will have to prove without a doubt it was their fault, they are already mentioning overweight. And if you scale it now and it's ok they will still say you overloaded it at some point. Time to sell the garbage and move on.
The bad thing about class action suits is, the lawyers get $546,000,000 and each plaintiff gets a coupon for $3 off their next purchase of a Grand Design product.
My thoughts exactly, the more the merrier!
I would sue the crap out of that company, what a joke their quality or lack of quality is. I hope your videos get millions of views, and nobody buys their pieces of crap. Thanks for letting us know these companies are not worth supporting
I would contact Brinkley and see if they are interested. I would be done with grand design, that terrible
My local RV dealer has GD products marked down 50% to 60%......lot full of junk.....which all RV's are, they come from factory ready to start falling apart.
Those welds are terrible - why wouldn’t grand designs bring in a welder from the frame/ chassis vendor? They obviously don’t have welders in house. I could make better welds and I took welding 40 yrs ago in HS. Too cold
I think the RV manufacturers have come to the conclusion that it is not in their best financial interests to warranty the junque they manufacture. Plus, if you say anything negative in a public way, you become persona non grata instantly. Where was the number for that attorney???
LOL, right. Stay tuned
I hope and Pray that everything will work out in your favor 🙏. You all need to get together and get a Great lawyer
We had a Grand Design it was cheap garbage. The said they wouldn't honor the warranty after 9 days when it flooded. They lied to us and it was a horrible experience. Never again! Check recalls and class action lawsuits these things are dangerous!
Sue the shit out of them. Their product is garbage. You’re not the only one dealing with this. You all need to get together and go after Grand Design.
They should be force to have the same warranty as a car. It doesn’t matter what you have all new ones are junk
The company always has the out saying the trailer is overweight, how convienient for them tough for you to prove otherwise.
with so many having issues a class action lawsuit might be a method to get things fixed
The whole industry needs to be held accountable along with all the RUclipsrs i.e. Josh, JD and others that make excuse after excuse and we can't leave out the GD fan boy forums. My wife and I love the look and layout of our Imagine but it has been nothing to problems from our very 1st trip.
👍
The government needs to step in these are matters of life and death on the road
yea those welds are bad ive been a welder for a long time and they wonder way there frames are coming apart if that the kind of work I would get a good lawyer and sue the hell of them but its leppert who built the frame but grand design engineered it
So, an engineer signed off on the initial build and the fix? The engineers need to be fired.
Grand Design just didn’t want to pay any more Repairs.
Play Venice mechanic all my life
Class action lawsuit?
Shocks
Boy I have seen a lot of Grand Design videos of basically junk RV's and not backing their products!
For some reason this big rv community never got together to have a petition to make the rv builders and dealers get regulated. Quality, warranty, service and so on
Find an attorney under the lemon law
Scratch Grand Design off my choice list, screw them.
I would be sick if I had the problems you’re having. Have you thought of finding a law firm that does class action suits? I bet you could gather plenty of prospects that would join you? It’s so sad this happens with such expensive purchases
I'd call it rotten floor flex
Don’t do additives every time. Every other or every third fill
Explain your theory?
I will say, I do notice that a LOT of these failures happen on these 45' Momentums that owners have loaded up the front end with big solar/big batteries systems. I believe owners are NOT overweight, but the frames were not designed/constructed to handle how heavy owners are making the nose of the fifth wheel. -------- Grand Design spent 20 years building a great reputation and destroyed it in one year. If I were CEO, we would stop production of any new large momentums until the frame was completely reengineered. At the same time, they need to develop a specific engineered solution to all units already on the road. They need to set up AND TRAIN STAFF to retrofit this solution and have it available to all units no matter how old they are. This would be an investment in Grand Designs future marketing/sales. They COULD have come out looking like heros. Instead, their name is now mud. We were close to buying a Grand Design SPECIFICALLY because of how they had always taken care of their customers. -------- OH, and I would document everything, grab all past weight scale receipts you have and hire one of those mad dog crazy screaming lawyers on TV.
Wow, I've had four Battleborn batteries in our coach now for a couple of years, and never had an issue, so it was sure nice to hear they went over and beyond for you! Any time I had a question, they were good at getting back to me with an explanation, so KUDOS to Battleborn Lithium batteries! As for what I might do, it would be to fix, sell and try a Brinkley perhaps, or one of the other choices that would put a smile on your face!
No Longer any work . Law Suit.
Geoff, after you weigh and measure your trailer maybe take it to a certified weld shop to get their opinion, on the repairs previously made and the framing
This is the plan, have you been listening to my Phone Calls?? LOL
As a Certified RV Tech I have considerable hands on experience with RV's and Horse Trailers. The difference in robustness in chassis is striking and in the cases I've been asked to comment on it is clear that chassis flexion is the cause of many RV chassis failures.
Yes it is.
how would you suggest these folks form a united front and proceed to get some justice and stop the cheap builds?
@@re7206 Stop buying them.
Here in the PNW a lot of us are buying horse trailers with living quarters and converting them into toy haulers for our UTV’s since regular toy haulers are such junk and can’t handle leaving paved roads. A used horse trailer is very cheap and much stronger built then factory toy haulers.
Another grand design frame flex failure. Maybe contact big truck big rv as he's collecting data. Same with paving new paths. They've got some groups forming on this seemingly common grand design issue.
You look this up. USA has a law that says all aftermarket things cannot void warranty.Sure they will try and scare you but its against law
That trailer is totaled.
I agree
i know people in California with the same frame problems. they hired an attorney to have their 5th wheels lemon lawed. they all got their money and expenses back. i would think the rest of the country should be the same. as far as your fuel pump, it is not the fuel. it is a poorly designed pump. additives will not help. most fuel in the USA is clean. the pump is a cheap piece of crap. buy a ram Cummins. good luck.
they should call it GRAND DISASTER. we will never buy Grand design.
You and paving new paths are in the same boat with broken frames. I was considering GD and now would never buy one
Did they give you a written letter that they are no longer warranying your rig?
The problem is that when they switched to low sulfur diesel. Sulfur was a lubricant, that’s why you need a fuel additive to make up for it.
I would be filing a complaint with the Indiana Attorney General.
That's one place to start, but they are protective of the RV industry in their state, but the National DOT is not as protective.
So sorry to hear. I absolutely avoided GD after watching so many issues. I just bought a 2024 Montana instead.
Good for you
Don’t research Montana issues. They are even worse…
@@Billybob50119 whatever you need to make yourself feel better.
@@gsolo328every rv manufactures are building junk....period
@@gsolo328hope it all works out for you... But there are people in the comments going through the same thing with Keystone
Can grand design do anything right ?
Unbelievable! I've heard SO many things about Grand Design and especially frame flex.
You and me both!
Repair it and trade it in for a Brinkley.
Like your thinking...
I bought a grand design 303 in 2021 because of their supposed quality. It’s a smaller 5th wheel, just hoping the problem is not as prevalent.
I just want to thank you for taking the time to share your experiences and outcomes.
Lucky you dont have a brand new ford...the engineers decided that it would be better to drive the high pressure pump with the camshaft...so when they fail it locks up the engine... bending all the pushrods when the valves slam into the top of the pistons which bends them also but wait it gets better...the crank gear sprocket is pressed onto the crank which isn't held in position with a keyway so it also spins on the crank when everything else crashes into each other...damn near total rebuild at that point since you can no longer time the engine with that crank gear out of time😂
Per the frame issues applies to all RVs with Lipbert frames you can file a recall notice go to the NHTSA file for a Recall spread this. Once a VIN is on notice and others follow the manufactures will have to no choice but to fix. The NTSHA has an easy to file process just enter the VIN and report this issue. Both Lipbert and the RV manufactures will have to comply and give over their specs and data to the NHTSA for review.
Ok, I will try this and do a video on it.
Your videos are the reason I refuse to buy a Grand Design. Once my current RV is paid off/sold/ or destroyed… I’ll never buy another RV again. Ownership of an RV really opened my eyes. It’s as if they’re all built in China. Piss poor quality at best and it only gets worse from there.
Sadly true with most types and manufactures
I think this thing with frame flex and extreme poor quality started in COVID. We have a 2016 Open Range Light 5th wheel and have had zero problems with it, so far. We've been on several months long, across America trips, and many local area trips but are not full timers. Could fail this year, who knows. But all RVs are not bad.
@@barrya5191 my RV is a pre COVID unit and it’s not what I expected out of American manufacturing.
I am personally in a battle with Forest River that is quite disgusting but I have a neighbor at the park I’m in with a brand new Grand Design. So much is wrong with it they have had to cancel plans and so much more. Looks like the sale of the company changed the great reputation they DID have. It is pathetic what these companies are doing.
Agree, they are not what they used to be...
Grand designs was in the running for my purchase, but all the videos I’ve seen, no, absolutely not.
Good call.... Take a look at Brinkley, I think you will be very impressed.
you mentioned in this video that you’re going to weigh your RV “have you not done that before ? Ever? Have you never weighed anything that you brought into the RV? have you not weighed every single thing that you put into that RV ? For the last 45 or 50 years? I’ve always had a scale by the steps whenever anything was brought into my RVs. I weighed everything, most people do not do that. I’ve always done that Ive owned in excess of 27 RVs 17 of them fifth wheels I have never ever had an issue with tires, frame, or my hitch assembly, nothing whenever I have friends or newbies that I know that are buying their first RV I always suggest to them that they weigh everything, nope, falls on deaf ears, till the tire wear and blowouts start. One time during a camparama, w 20 of us, one of them had his RV was significantly overweight, by 1147 pounds, a scale will give you a total weight, a scale, a pen and pad will give you a running total weight.
I’d suggest you bring your Rv to a heavy duty truck shop w a frame machine, pay them to check it out, open it up. It’s much more ammunition for you instead of novices playing Dr. trying to convince a judge of your novice determination versus a pro. Good luck
Yes, I've weighed it several times, but I did it again to prove after the repairs what the new weight is.
Maybe Grand Designs owners need to do like the farmers and Truckers. All drive to the factory, encircle it and refuse to leave until your issues are addressed. Live stream the process to youtube and the media.
You have all paid for warrenty in the purchase price. You also all have the right to reasonably expect proper engineering.
and design.
Your frame issue is a design flaw. The frames used for your, I assume 42 foot plus rigg, is the same frame support members sizes used in all models of Grand Designs from the shortest, lightest, 5th wheel to the longest, heaviest. Just a little longer and maybe with a few more cross members. But essentially the same frame components. The design of a 5th wheel frame is such that the forces created by the bumps in the road are highest at the points at the start, or beginning of the welds where the upper platform connects to the lower platform. And where the frame cantilevers over the axles. A lot on constant bending / flex. Over time and use the welds begin to "unzip" shall we say. Think of it in simpler terms. When you see a highway bridge you will notice where the steel is over a pier in the center of the highway the steel is thicker and more reinforced. That's where all the weight is sitting. Your axles are no different. The biggest portion of the RV's weight sits right over your axils. The whole back half of you RV has no support. It is like a big springboard. The heavier the RV the greater this effect. The frame components should have been up-sized or reinforced as the riggs got bigger. They are not because of the added weight. So Grand Designs is actually right, it is overweight, and they can't fix it. But is their design, so if they have a structural warranty, they are responsible. There is a limit to size and weight you can go without respacing your axles. Truckers do this all the time. Have fun.
" If you do/did this, you will void your warranty." Well, over the years ALL THE COURT SYSTEMS AND THE FTC have said that is wrong. Last year the FTC sent out seven warning letters reminding major corporations about this.
Under federal warranty laws, NOTHING voids your warranty, until and unless the warrantor has proven beyond any question that YOUR MOD was the specific cause for the warranty failure.
Somehow it seems all service managers, dealer managers, and their lawyers have not heard about this for over a decade.
All it takes to blow out a complete electrical system, is to WELD on a vehicle without disconnecting the battery grounds.
GRAND DESIGN knows the problem. Lying about this a criminal fraud. The courts award triple damages plus lawyer and cost fees for triple fraud. And collateral and punitive damages.
And you take the case to federal court, in your district, so they have to spend money sending their lawyers and team down to Miami for every court appearance, convenient to you.
Pick the lawyer with the most expensive car and sharpest filed teeth.
A real sharp one will file a class action suit, with you as the lead plaintiff. That way you get paid first.
Could bankrupt Grand Design. TFB.
Thanks, I will forward to my attorney...
This company should be put out of business.
Many are saying the same thing...
Wow! I'm so sorry you and many others are having all these issues with poorly designed frames. I had no idea anything like this was happening, I'm very new to RV's and just now learning of the problems.
What about the Federal Lemon law, would work?
I checked into that and apparently not.
Man I feel for you. I would say do everything you need to do legally to get this resolved. Years ago I had issues with a Dodge 1500 extended cab truck purchased new from a local dealer.After working with them multiple times to get the issues resolved, I made the decision to take a loss and trade it off for another brand vehicle. The loss stung for quite some time. I just mentally couldn't stand dealing with it. Best of luck. I'll be watching and rooting for you.
A few have suggested that, but I'm not ready to take the financial hit. GD should take the majority of it.
And now it’s your responsibility to spread the word about fuel additives. I HIGHLY recommend Hot Shot Every Day Diesel. It’s high quality and can be found in most auto stores and definitely at Tractor supply. It’s not that expensive either. It can also be mixed with their anti gel products if you ever decide to travel in cold climates. ❤❤❤ We got you brother !
Yes, Hot Shot in on the top 2 of my list.
It’s not a fuel additive issue it’s a horrible design of the CP4 issue. It’s complete junk and Ford is the only one still putting them in new trucks
@@Billybob50119 It’s actually a great design, unfortunately it’s just meant to run on high sulfur fuel which we do not have here in the US. In Germany they have practically NO issues with them because of the high lubricity of their fuel. So just call it what it is…..a great design but is being improperly implemented by American truck manufacturers. Just run a good fuel additive, drain the separator monthly and change both filters every other oil change.
hot shot LX4 LUBRICITY EXTREME is a premium lubricity additive for Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD)
@pavingnewpaths just posted a video about their GDRV doing nothing for them today. Probably better off not wasting time for it to fail again like yours.
Yes, he's having some big issues as well.
I hauled gas and diesel fuel to stations for 20 yrs , used to be we had #2 and #1 fuel , then it went to off road fuel and dpfo road fuel dyed accordingly. Then came ultra low sulfur diesel fuel , sulfur is a lubricant they started putting bean oil in different ratios b11 b20 b22 etc. Then they came with bio- mass- chicken fat and other nasty stuff, the problem we had was that crap would splash blend while loading and the shit would freeze in the winter and the blends were never accurate. Not sure but I think some of the blends have some ethanol in them now
Thanks for the info, this is probably why everyone is telling me to add an additive!
Class Action Lawsuit. Get with youtuber Paving New Paths. Keystone Montana's are having the same issue, just don't see any RUclips videos about it.
I've seen Paving new Path video. I also heard about the Keystones for several others.
Regarding the CP4 pump . The pump is just a poor design plain and simple. Fuel quality for sure is a factor in pump failure .
If the dealer told you your whole truck warranty would be void if you put in a different fuel pump then he is NOT being truthfull with you .
That’s not how it works.
Yea, I hearing that from other as well...
We first saw a Grand Design trailer at a show in 2015 and were very impressed with the quality. Since they sold out to Winnebago they've turned into poor quality like most towable RVs. There's only a few companies I would consider buying and Grand Design is certainly not one of them anymore.
Yep this is what everyone is saying. Go look at the Brinkley, your going to want to buy one right away.
Take all ur problems and documents,go to better business bearu in every state you have had dealings with GD,also go to the attorney General in your state and file a complaint and it never hurts to get your state representative involved,you would be surprised how these people can help u if have a legitimate proublem,and u do
I did not read every comment so this may have been mentioned. It will likely/ be an arduous process but I’d start with creating a list of all owners with this issue. By creating a class and with subpoena power, this list should be easy to obtain. Once you have the class you’ll file in court in Indiana. You should be able to find an attorney who does this stuff. Then you wait it out. My heart goes out to you because you can’t really live in your rig unless you simply park it. I have been in two of these cases as a complainant so I’ve a vague idea how it works. It takes patience and commitment but you have them by the you know what and there’s an army of disgruntled folks behind you. Go get them. So glad we went with Brinkley!
I'm also glad you went with Brinkley. I said you would be happy with that decision. You are right, a long process...
@@MyBucketListDay and I just saw the newest small Z the 3110. It takes the north south bed from the 2900 and the walk through bath with the hall closet. All reasons I rejected the 3100. And it add a bunk house with a door and loads of storage plus a bigger theater sofa and a better fold out bed if needed with a removable dinette. We both snore and hubby has frequent bouts of insomnia plus needing a bathroom so we do not share a bed. This model will give him his own bed and eliminate sofa. And his own tv. Perfect.
Better check on your Brinkley…
Major recall for wheel breaking off on certain models
GD is trading repairs for ndas.
My impression is that you have not been getting your rig weighed, and if you do not have certified weight receipts to prove the weight of your rig over a given period of time grand design will use that against you if you ever get to court.
I have all the weigh receipts, so I'm covered. Thanks
Court ... sue, for damages and or force them to buy it back .
Could happen, we will see
That sounds about right for Grand Design not standing behind their products. We are going through about the some issues with Keystone. We are tired of these lemons.
Send me an email, I have something going. MyBucketListDay@gmail.com
My wife and I are in the market for a 5th wheel toy hauler. We liked the model you have & almost bought one in the fall of ‘23 & with all we have been hearing our minds have changed. We will be looking into other brands that are custom built and manufacture their own frames.
We wish you all the best and pray this company steps up to the plate.
Thanks, but don't ignore the Brinkley Brand. They build an awesome and strong 5th wheel and Travel Trailer.
I would trade that thing in fast ... get something smaller .... you can go a lot more places ...
Size is not the issue, poor quality is the issue!
We had these very same issues with our 2021 399TH. It was repaired by GD back in Elkhart; however, I'm not convinced that we're out of the woods yet.
I think you will win a law suit.
We hired an attorney do deal with our issues. Different trailer manufacture but Lippert frame and axels. They told us, and had us sign the warranty papers for Dexter ("High Quality Axels") and that was with the price was higher. Axels were Lippert and the wheels were not welded on to the axel straight. The problems went up from there. :( Our court date is in May and we are asking them to but it back. We'll see what happens.
I think I would definitely hire a lawyer and go after Grand design! I can actually say my Forest River toy hauler i bought in 2015 has held up really good!
Glad to hear your has held up... Safe travels
So has our 2013 keystone hideout. Zero issues
Forest River i had to throw the keys to them.
It was a complete piece of junk. I walked away from it and it cost me
big time but i just bit the bullet.
Class action there are a lot of people having these problems
Lawyer Up!!!! Get ALL of the AMMO you can, get everyone that has had problems with their Grand Design RV's and do a Class Action Mass Tort Litigation Lawsuit against GD!
Could be happening, can't confirm
All the the RV owners with these issues should drive their Rigs to The Grand design Manufacturer add demand (protest) they address this problem!!
Sounds like Grand Design is selling Grand Garbage. Good to know!
Thanks about the sum of it...
I was part of a class action when computer screens were deceptively advertised and won so I would reach out and try to find grand design owners like you. Maybe you can find a marketing company to get a list of owners. It's worth a try . Good luck.
Sorry about all the problems, one thing to think about now is that if that king pin area completely fails and causes an accident, you have already documented prior knowledge of the damage. Be careful driving that thing around now. Not a matter of IF it fails but when. good luck
Yes, that is an issue.
As common place as these frame issues appear to be, I'd suggest it is a combination of poor/marginal design and shoddy manufacturing.
and a decision to cut costs at the expense of safety...
Take to to a truck frame straightener, sister in welded steel to strengthen the frame to control the extreme flexing going on. Park it, sell it as repaired to someone willing to accept the risk, and sue for your losses, including a prayer for treble damages to punish them for such a shoddy product. Not a lawyer but what I'd do.
Thanks for the comments. Can't sell is the way it sits. I would never put this on anyone else.
I'm somewhat shocked about the poor quality of those Welds. Looks like rookie work.
omg, was the work signed off as checked & approved by a certified welder? sue city man! your lives are on those welds & everyone else on the road too!
I would contact the National Traffic Safety Bureau and make them aware of the unsafe products on the highway. Nothing gets a companies attention like a NTSB mandated recall.
In the works
Right just Bad Fuel, R-U using Shell Fuel.
We need to file class action lawsuits their defective products are dangerous.
I was looking for a momentum toy hauler and stumbled across this video and have since watched a few more. Thanks for showing this. Just saved me 100k. I wouldn’t have one if you gave it to me.
They need either a decent fully boxed frame in these things or a frame that continues up the front and over the roof then back down to the sides. Or something. But Way more $$ and no one buys them now because they are way over priced. They are all defective because of being under built.
This is an easy fix, but to this point, Brinkley is the only Brand doing it right.
You can't with a good conscience sell that rig to anyone else.
Right! I wouldn't but am surprised of how many are suggesting that very idea.
Just got my 2023 grand design TT back from some "warranty " work. One of the things we had issues with was that the trailer brakes were not adjusted and did not engaged at all. This happened on 2 of my trucks, one brand new. It wasn't an issue with the truck. They refused to pay for a simple break adjustment to eliminate a potentially dangerous issue. I'm not especially happy with their "warranty" or the dealership.
Yes, warranty at the dealership is piss poor
warranty papers = bernie madoff papers
I'm not sure who the STOP signs are for on the bike path as ya''ll blew thru several of them while talking. On a different note, I've heard that Ford has started voiding warranties claiming fuel contamination as the reason for failure of their pumps. Just something you might want to be aware of if you have a CP4 pump failure in the future.
Thanks for the tip.
I was ready to pull the trigger on a GD Imagine 3100RD. But after watching yours and other GD owner's videos RE frame flex and a plethora of other shoddy workmanship issues, I'm SO glad I waited to purchase. And then, as though it were manna from heaven, Brinkley descended from the clouds enveloped in golden light and well.....Grand Design who? Gimme shelter @BrinkleyRV!
So did you buy a Brinkley??
@@MyBucketListDay We went to the Tampa Super RV show specifically to look at the new Brinkley travel trailer, but decided it was not the floor plan we are hoping for. BUT! We were assured that there are more TT floor plans coming down the pike so we're waiting for those to come out. Then we'll buy. If it's not Brinkley, it's not going to be anything. That's how dead-set I am on buying a Brinkley.
@@MyBucketListDay By the way, I'm not sure a class action suit will be most helpful to you and others who are experiencing the same flex frame issues. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the only ones who benefit from class action suits are the lawyers. The goal for owners is to have the frames fixed *properly* and at the manufacturing company's expense, not the poor owner who purchased the RV in good faith, and the only way I can see that happening is if you take the issue to the NHTSA and encourage others to do the same. The NHTSA can and will push the manufacturers for recalls when customers report the same issues and if successful, that is how you can receive satisfaction.
GD is a big company , your only choice is to hire an RV lawyer who specializes in this type of case, big business will only start to take you serious, if you start action and if it comes to that they may in the end not let you tell us about your outcome as they will make you sign a non disclosure agreement , they don’t like lawyers, because they know you are now serious, also add in the settlement , suffering from stress and duress during all these issues, it’s very hard for big business to establish a cost on your health
Shame it has to come to this. If only a company would admit their errors and take responsibility of faulty products and repair work.
You come across as a gentleman and a very kind, down to earth guy. Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences with us. I could purchased an rv but have decided against it based on the negatively.
I appreciate that! But don't give up on the Idea. Go look at Brinkley RV, you will be impressed and the quality is outstanding.
Oh my goodness when they said you were overweight I thought they meant you were to fat for the RV. I had a good laugh at myself whenI realized what they meant.
HA HA, LOL. That is funny as shit. I am too fat, so I could see them saying that.
I have a DCR fuel pump recently put in my 2019. Strongly recommend.
Yes, I've heard good thing on that.
Time for a large group of people to see your lawyers and start up a class action lawsuit asap. Yes the lawyers will cost you money at first. The longer people leave this, the more dangerous your units will become from all there garbage equipment they supplied you with.
I can see this being the end of Grand Designs in 3 years.
Could be!
You and "paving new paths" should talk.
We have been on a weekly basis
Curious to see your weights. Usually full timers carry a lot of xtra weight and with the expansive solar equipment up front as well as a generator u could be overloading your pin
Actually, I weighed everything prior to installing and we only added 187Lb's with all the Victron and batteries, and then another 60Lb's with wiring and battery frame. We removed the lead acid batteries and the factory inverter that weighs 112Lb's, so our net add in weight was only 135Lb's
Time for legal advice. Your rig should be lemon law’ed Geoff. Maybe a class action lawsuit if they will not replace your rig. Now I am seriously concerned about them repairing our frame flex. -Pete
Many things are in motion, yes, be concerned and take many notes and film all you can. Tell them up front you want to see pictures of all work prior to them putting it all back together. I asked for Pictures and got a few but not as many to show all the work they claimed to have done. Had I received pictures, I would have never left the service shop because they clearly did not fix what they said they did.