Thank You Chris for video. You made it sound very easy so now I will give it a try. Your videos are so down to earth and interesting. That I didn’t know the motor serial number was there I seen it but I was to dumb to figure it out. I’m so impressed that I asked you about removing this pump and you immediately had a video. I can’t thank you enough!!
I needed something for my Thursday video, and I knew I could throw this together quick and easy, so thank you for the suggestion. The 354 has to be the easiest injection pump to pull.
I worked on an 1850 Perkins, complete overhaul, sleeves, pistons, bearings. I remember trying to pull out the sleeves with a sleeve puller and a 1/2” diameter bolt shaft. No go. My ides was to change to a 3/4” bolt shaft. Came right out. As always, we had a few parts left over to be used next time.
Every 72 revolutions hahah... imagine just wanting to check that to make sure everything lines up and then missing some thing and having to turn it like 70 times to get back to it. Awesome video though Chris that was nice of you to make that for someone Hope you’re having a good week!
I know the hard way. We had a customer bring in one that suddenly died. The bolt had come off the end of the camshaft and the gear moved forward enough to stop driving the cam. A couple of bent push rods and a bunch of turning the crank with a ratchet to get the timing dot right. It might have been faster to pull the front cover!
@@ThatOliverGuyChris haha when you first said that in the video it really made me chuckle. I was thinking it would be faster to re-power the tractor😂All joking aside though those Perkins engines are pretty good in my opinion
Hey Ed! How’s it goin buddy? Yeah it hasn’t been too bad it was in the teens in single digits last week this week pretty much the 20s and then single digits at night.
It is amazing and very detailed to explain the process. If you had the request then that makes it even better! Keeping fingers crossed for that power beyond on a 770 video one day. Thank you very much for the video, detailed and informative as always! Look fwd to more! Thank you sir
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I totally understand that!! No rush at all, you are very busy and the weather there is crazy! Just looking fwd to it, whenever you get it made. It's nice to be able to watch and listen in the detail of your explanation and understand perfectly. Thank you sir, for bringing us along!
It’s been awhile but if work is done that disturbs timing gears there is a tool that sits in place of pump. Once it is set with proper timing the actual gears can then be set so scribe mark is accurate. Another memory, excessive oil burn turned out to be oil pushing up through pump drive into injection pump.
I'm trying to remember the name, I think it has something to do with the advance. It's easy to change, scee it out and screw a new one in, just be careful of the little ball that might come out and get lost .
That would be a shame if true about that pump drive gear. There area lot of 354s still in service out there. Perkins are some of my favorite engines in older equipment, start easy, reliable, inexpensive to repair since parts were made all over the world. Not so much since Caterpillar bought them. Had an 1104c-44t in the shop nice window in the side of the block. Prices ridiculous for new parts. All the cores are being bought up for reman program. You are right about that 310 turbo they sound beautiful. The Alice Chalmers D301 turbo also. They were both using a smaller diplacement engines to compete with the na 404 JD and 414 IH . The turbos built boost fast at the bottom end. Not like today,but good for late 60's
I just recently bought an 1850 and it has a fuel leak. Hopefully, it's one of the washers on the banjo bolt, but It looks suspicious that it might be leaking at the head. So this might be helpful information!
Hey Chris thanks for the video. I'm getting lots of fuel at the bleed screw on the injector pump on my 2-85. Can't seem to get fuel at each injector when lines are cracked after lots of cranking. Any tips or suggestions? Was losing prime to the fuel system so replaced leaking drain cap on fuel filter and installed 2 new gaskets on the bottom of fuel injection pump( didn't have any before and was leaking). Essentially was working fine before and now it's better then ever so i shouldn't taking in any air. Thank you
Hey man, i have a tractor with this engine, and im trying to figure out what the part that the injection pump is mounted to is called. I understand its the block, but it has a shaft that sticks out the back of it that spins when the engine is on and it has a keyway like you could attatch a pulley or gear to it to run an accessory or implement. Mine leaks from there and i need to know what that shaft is for/called. Thanks.
You can get a copy of the original Oliver factory manual from the Floyd County Museum. It goes into more detail than an I&T manual and well worth the extra cost. www.floydcountymuseum.org/?page_id=146
The oil pump is driven by the same shaft as the injection pump, so if the injection pump is turning, the oil pump should be too. Beyond that, you'd have to pull the oil pan and drop the pump to make sure everything is ok. The early Perkins 354 oil pump could be troublesome for getting primed. My 1850 is one of those. I leave the oil filter loose and the fuel stop out and crank it over until oil comes out at the filter base. A bit messy, but it gets it primed. A neighbor was recently telling me it took 3 of them to prime theirs up. One would put air pressure into the crankcase breather, another would be at the filter ready to tighten it down, and the 3rd would start it. The early oil pump only had 4 lobes, later ones had 6 and that took care of the problem.
It doesn't take much more to pull that gear, just need get the timing marks lined up for that one. I've heard that gear is no longer available, so I'd get one in your hands before tearing it down.
Can you do a video on that Bronze gear because that’s what our 1850 does wide open or once you get over about 1600 rpms and it probably doesn’t help the injection pump leaks on it
Not sure when I'll get a chance, but I'll add it to the list. Last I knew, the gear is not available any more, but if the bearings it rides on are worn, that can cause trouble. So can the thrust washer that the worm drive shaft has on the front of it. Grab the stub shaft that comes out the back side and see if you can push it in and out. It should have little to no movement.
Hi Chris, are you back now to working on your purple 1850 project? Also just wondering your opinion about v-8 engines. Do you think that they have as much lugging power as a inline 6 does? I have always heard that the IH 1468 didn't have very good lugging power. Just wondering how the Cat v-8's would compare to the IH v -8 engine.
Yes I am, although I've hit a hurdle with getting the purple paint matched up. My experience has been the v8 diesels don't lug like an equivalent in line 6. I have never used an IH v8, so I don't know how they compare to the Cat. I keep my rpms up and I'm not afraid to use the powershift when they go down a couple hundred. I'm guessing you're pretty cold in South Dakota right now? Fortunately for me, as long as Lake Michigan isn't froze over, the air doesn't cool off as much for us.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Yes we are pretty cold here right now day time highs are averaging about 0 this week. Sunday's high is supposed to be a whopping -10. Next week things are going to warm up to around 30 by mid week.
Those heads are no longer available, but I've heard of guys getting new ones made at a machine shop. Costs a few, but gets them running. They can be switched out to a roosa master with the right parts.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris yes I may have gotten the last one. The gearing is 2:1 inside pump rotor so other pumps can't work in this engine to easily. I tried a industrial Waskashua pump roosta master no good. The 4 cylinder pump is rare . Thanks
Hey Chris. I didn’t know Oliver used Perkins engines. Can you tell me when they started using them and which models plus why did they start.. Thanks for another epic video.
They only had one tractor model that used a Perkins, the 1850. That started in 1964 and went until 1969. Oliver had been powering their "8" sized tractors in house up to that point, but outsourced engines for the higher horsepower models. For the 1850 they decided to go with the 354 Perkins diesel, but gas and LP were still the Oliver/Waukesha 310. The Lanova style head on the 310 diesel was getting to the upper end of its horsepower range, so the Perkins let them go up in power. By the end of the run they had redesigned the 310 diesel to be direct injected with a 6 port intake manifold. They could now build an in house engine for that horsepower, cheaper than they could buy the Perkins. Time would show that they were squeezing a bit too much out of that 310, so when the Oliver name was dropped, the new White tractors used the Perkins in the 2-85 (no turbo) and the 2-105 (turbo). They were used in the newer 2-88 and 2-110, and replaced with Cummins 5.9 B series engines with the introduction of the 100 series tractors in 1987. White also used the Perkins 354 in some of their combines, and it was an option in the Oliver 545 combine, maybe others.
We have 2 diesel tractors one David Brown, the other a Massey Ferguson. Both have CAV pumps. The Massey Ferguson has always been a bear to start in the cold(Perkins, duh!😂) The older David Brown is definitely more forgiving. Not quite as good as a modern engine, but not bad. The David Brown has a switch on the injector pump that helps cold starting(make the idle slower), did Oliver ever utilize that system on their equipment that wasnt a repainted David Brown?
The only bad thing now about the 354 Perkins is the injector pump drive line, No one has any of the parts for them and not even Perkins ! My 1850 had a harmonic vibration in the pump that turned out to be the bearing under the bronze gear was worn , Harry replaced it while it was apart (came out with his fingers had to tap the new one in) and with the injector pump rebuilt she purrs now ! Bandit
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Mine had a flutter about 1600 rpm and a vibration there after. New bearing and rebuilt pump she runs smooth now so I'm sure it was a combination of both being bad. It was interesting my service manual had both the bushing and bearing noted in it ware as Harry's book only showed the bushing under the drive gear. So pays to have old books ! LOL Bandit
Yes. There should be an arrow on the tag that show the direction of rotation. You'll probably have to loosen the injection lines to get it to turn, but the holes are slotted.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
This saved my day. My mechanic friend recently passed and I was stuck until I saw this. Thank you.
Glad to help!
Our Perkins had died before I had a chance to drive it but luckily a caseIH donated it’s heart and now it’s Cummins powered great video Chris
Thanks!
Thank You Chris for video. You made it sound very easy so now I will give it a try. Your videos are so down to earth and interesting. That I didn’t know the motor serial number was there I seen it but I was to dumb to figure it out. I’m so impressed that I asked you about removing this pump and you immediately had a video. I can’t thank you enough!!
I needed something for my Thursday video, and I knew I could throw this together quick and easy, so thank you for the suggestion. The 354 has to be the easiest injection pump to pull.
I worked on an 1850 Perkins, complete overhaul, sleeves, pistons, bearings. I remember trying to pull out the sleeves with a sleeve puller and a 1/2” diameter bolt shaft. No go. My ides was to change to a 3/4” bolt shaft. Came right out. As always, we had a few parts left over to be used next time.
Every 72 revolutions hahah... imagine just wanting to check that to make sure everything lines up and then missing some thing and having to turn it like 70 times to get back to it.
Awesome video though Chris that was nice of you to make that for someone Hope you’re having a good week!
I know the hard way. We had a customer bring in one that suddenly died. The bolt had come off the end of the camshaft and the gear moved forward enough to stop driving the cam. A couple of bent push rods and a bunch of turning the crank with a ratchet to get the timing dot right. It might have been faster to pull the front cover!
@@ThatOliverGuyChris haha when you first said that in the video it really made me chuckle. I was thinking it would be faster to re-power the tractor😂All joking aside though those Perkins engines are pretty good in my opinion
Hello Adam. Hopefully you are staying warm!!
Hey Ed! How’s it goin buddy? Yeah it hasn’t been too bad it was in the teens in single digits last week this week pretty much the 20s and then single digits at night.
@@Adam_Poirier not bad then.. right at freezing now.. rain. Now ice pellets.. ground isn't frozen but everything else is
It is amazing and very detailed to explain the process. If you had the request then that makes it even better! Keeping fingers crossed for that power beyond on a 770 video one day. Thank you very much for the video, detailed and informative as always! Look fwd to more! Thank you sir
I'm planning on doing that one soon, but that barn isn't as warm as my heated shop.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I totally understand that!! No rush at all, you are very busy and the weather there is crazy! Just looking fwd to it, whenever you get it made. It's nice to be able to watch and listen in the detail of your explanation and understand perfectly. Thank you sir, for bringing us along!
Awesome. I’ll have to tackle this job before long.
It’s been awhile but if work is done that disturbs timing gears there is a tool that sits in place of pump. Once it is set with proper timing the actual gears can then be set so scribe mark is accurate.
Another memory, excessive oil burn turned out to be oil pushing up through pump drive into injection pump.
Excellent video keep up the great videos 👍👍👍👍
Thanks, will do!
i have perkins 354 in massey & this vid as well as1650 clutch job very helpful & informative. PLEASE DO A HYDROPOWER OR HYDRAUL OVERHAUL. thanks
Tomorrow's video is of tear down of a hydra power!
Enjoyed this video bro. Safe travels
Thanks!
Your videos are always interesting.... 👍👍
Thank you!
Motor perkins é o melhor motor no Brasil 🇧🇷
Nice video question I’m new to tractors what’s the round part on the pump mine leak fuel from the hole in the middle thank you
I'm trying to remember the name, I think it has something to do with the advance. It's easy to change, scee it out and screw a new one in, just be careful of the little ball that might come out and get lost .
That would be a shame if true about that pump drive gear. There area lot of 354s still in service out there. Perkins are some of my favorite engines in older equipment, start easy, reliable, inexpensive to repair since parts were made all over the world. Not so much since Caterpillar bought them. Had an 1104c-44t in the shop nice window in the side of the block. Prices ridiculous for new parts. All the cores are being bought up for reman program. You are right about that 310 turbo they sound beautiful. The Alice Chalmers D301 turbo also. They were both using a smaller diplacement engines to compete with the na 404 JD and 414 IH . The turbos built boost fast at the bottom end. Not like today,but good for late 60's
G'day Chris great video mate
Thanks Murphy!!
I just recently bought an 1850 and it has a fuel leak. Hopefully, it's one of the washers on the banjo bolt, but It looks suspicious that it might be leaking at the head. So this might be helpful information!
It seems like that CAV pump is more prone to leaking than say a Roosa Master. At least it's easy to take off and on. 😆
@ThatOliverGuyChris and we have a few local guys who work on injection pumps so it's not the worst thing in the world
Good video! Can you run a A/C compressor off the shaft under the injection pump?
Yes, I've seen it done.
Hey Chris thanks for the video. I'm getting lots of fuel at the bleed screw on the injector pump on my 2-85. Can't seem to get fuel at each injector when lines are cracked after lots of cranking. Any tips or suggestions? Was losing prime to the fuel system so replaced leaking drain cap on fuel filter and installed 2 new gaskets on the bottom of fuel injection pump( didn't have any before and was leaking). Essentially was working fine before and now it's better then ever so i shouldn't taking in any air. Thank you
Maybe the shut off got hooked up wrong and isn't in the right spot? Short of that, I can't think of anything external that would be causing a problem.
Hey man, i have a tractor with this engine, and im trying to figure out what the part that the injection pump is mounted to is called. I understand its the block, but it has a shaft that sticks out the back of it that spins when the engine is on and it has a keyway like you could attatch a pulley or gear to it to run an accessory or implement. Mine leaks from there and i need to know what that shaft is for/called. Thanks.
The book just calls it a shaft. The seal is a 165812A in Oliver part numbers.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thank you. What manual would you recommend for these things ?
You can get a copy of the original Oliver factory manual from the Floyd County Museum. It goes into more detail than an I&T manual and well worth the extra cost.
www.floydcountymuseum.org/?page_id=146
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thanks so much for the help
How do u get the oil pump to prime on one of those and verify that the oil pump is turning
The oil pump is driven by the same shaft as the injection pump, so if the injection pump is turning, the oil pump should be too. Beyond that, you'd have to pull the oil pan and drop the pump to make sure everything is ok. The early Perkins 354 oil pump could be troublesome for getting primed. My 1850 is one of those. I leave the oil filter loose and the fuel stop out and crank it over until oil comes out at the filter base. A bit messy, but it gets it primed. A neighbor was recently telling me it took 3 of them to prime theirs up. One would put air pressure into the crankcase breather, another would be at the filter ready to tighten it down, and the 3rd would start it. The early oil pump only had 4 lobes, later ones had 6 and that took care of the problem.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thank you I will give that a try
@@ThatOliverGuyChris my problem was i forgot the cross over pipe when when I changed the oil pan and the oil pump the combine motor didn’t have it
Never knew pulling the pump was that easy on these. My 1850 needs the bronze gear replaced but I’ve been scared to do it so I keep putting it off.
It doesn't take much more to pull that gear, just need get the timing marks lined up for that one. I've heard that gear is no longer available, so I'd get one in your hands before tearing it down.
Can you do a video on that Bronze gear because that’s what our 1850 does wide open or once you get over about 1600 rpms and it probably doesn’t help the injection pump leaks on it
Not sure when I'll get a chance, but I'll add it to the list. Last I knew, the gear is not available any more, but if the bearings it rides on are worn, that can cause trouble. So can the thrust washer that the worm drive shaft has on the front of it. Grab the stub shaft that comes out the back side and see if you can push it in and out. It should have little to no movement.
Chris, Thanks for entertaining us. I'm local to you, any recommendations for Injection pump repair shops, diesel engine machine work in the area?
I've always gotten great service out of Diesel Equipment in Potterville.
Ooh didn't know Oliver used Perkins diesel engines thought it was massey ferguson and later White pretty good engines
Hi Chris, are you back now to working on your purple 1850 project? Also just wondering your opinion about v-8 engines. Do you think that they have as much lugging power as a inline 6 does? I have always heard that the IH 1468 didn't have very good lugging power. Just wondering how the Cat v-8's would compare to the IH v -8 engine.
Yes I am, although I've hit a hurdle with getting the purple paint matched up.
My experience has been the v8 diesels don't lug like an equivalent in line 6. I have never used an IH v8, so I don't know how they compare to the Cat. I keep my rpms up and I'm not afraid to use the powershift when they go down a couple hundred.
I'm guessing you're pretty cold in South Dakota right now? Fortunately for me, as long as Lake Michigan isn't froze over, the air doesn't cool off as much for us.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Yes we are pretty cold here right now day time highs are averaging about 0 this week. Sunday's high is supposed to be a whopping -10. Next week things are going to warm up to around 30 by mid week.
I am having issues with oil pump pto shaft under fuel pump. I can't find info.
Seal
Can you give me more details?
Tachometer seal leaking oil looks like through shaft. I don't know how to remove
Old perkins 354
Is this on an Oliver 1850?
Great info Keep up the good work. Do you have any experience wit parking brake on 2-135 and up?
Yes. Suffice it to say, it's not fun.
Had a 550 with American Bosch pump went bad.
No one in the world had a pump head.
Got a rebuild one in Michigan . $1500 for the head .
Those heads are no longer available, but I've heard of guys getting new ones made at a machine shop. Costs a few, but gets them running. They can be switched out to a roosa master with the right parts.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris yes I may have gotten the last one.
The gearing is 2:1 inside pump rotor so other pumps can't work in this engine to easily.
I tried a industrial Waskashua pump roosta master no good.
The 4 cylinder pump is rare .
Thanks
What is your favorite Diesel engine that Oliver offer?
I know they are notorious, but I really like the 310. They are snappy and will lug, and they have a sound all their own.
Hey Chris. I didn’t know Oliver used Perkins engines. Can you tell me when they started using them and which models plus why did they start.. Thanks for another epic video.
They only had one tractor model that used a Perkins, the 1850. That started in 1964 and went until 1969. Oliver had been powering their "8" sized tractors in house up to that point, but outsourced engines for the higher horsepower models. For the 1850 they decided to go with the 354 Perkins diesel, but gas and LP were still the Oliver/Waukesha 310. The Lanova style head on the 310 diesel was getting to the upper end of its horsepower range, so the Perkins let them go up in power. By the end of the run they had redesigned the 310 diesel to be direct injected with a 6 port intake manifold. They could now build an in house engine for that horsepower, cheaper than they could buy the Perkins. Time would show that they were squeezing a bit too much out of that 310, so when the Oliver name was dropped, the new White tractors used the Perkins in the 2-85 (no turbo) and the 2-105 (turbo). They were used in the newer 2-88 and 2-110, and replaced with Cummins 5.9 B series engines with the introduction of the 100 series tractors in 1987. White also used the Perkins 354 in some of their combines, and it was an option in the Oliver 545 combine, maybe others.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris. Wow I love asking your more information. You never let me down.
We have 2 diesel tractors one David Brown, the other a Massey Ferguson. Both have CAV pumps. The Massey Ferguson has always been a bear to start in the cold(Perkins, duh!😂) The older David Brown is definitely more forgiving. Not quite as good as a modern engine, but not bad.
The David Brown has a switch on the injector pump that helps cold starting(make the idle slower), did Oliver ever utilize that system on their equipment that wasnt a repainted David Brown?
I bet that switch changes the timing. I've never seen one on an Oliver.
didnt 1850s have 310 turbos without coolers?
No, thats wss early 1855s. The 1850 was either a 354 Perkins diesel or a Waukesha 30 that could be gasoline or LP.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris ah I see. Much better tractor I take it?
The 1850 with the Perkins ? Arguably one the best tractors of the 1960s.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris still not better than a red tractor
Well, that's arguable. Lol
Hey Chris what brand pump is that?
IT's a CAV Lucas pump. It appears they are now owned by Delphi, because my local shop put the Delphi tag on when I had it rebuilt.
The only bad thing now about the 354 Perkins is the injector pump drive line, No one has any of the parts for them and not even Perkins ! My 1850 had a harmonic vibration in the pump that turned out to be the bearing under the bronze gear was worn , Harry replaced it while it was apart (came out with his fingers had to tap the new one in) and with the injector pump rebuilt she purrs now ! Bandit
I rebuilt one where those injector drive bearings seemed fine, but several bearings worth of being a little loose added up up to high end flutter.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Mine had a flutter about 1600 rpm and a vibration there after. New bearing and rebuilt pump she runs smooth now so I'm sure it was a combination of both being bad. It was interesting my service manual had both the bushing and bearing noted in it ware as Harry's book only showed the bushing under the drive gear. So pays to have old books ! LOL Bandit
The sad thing is with these old tractors, like anything old, is that at some point parts get harder and harder to find.
Sad but true.
Where do you take your pumps to be rebuilt.
Diesel Equipment in Potterville.
👍👍
That's better than the JD 4010s!! Let's do an offset spade.. that can go together either way 🙄
Don't ask me how I know..
Woah hey Ed nice to see ya here
Ed's like Murphy, he's everywhere!
@@ThatOliverGuyChris that’s true
@@BIBSTERSrepairshop been here a few years 👍😁
@@ThatOliverGuyChris I do my best.. lots of great channels out there
We called the dreaded "Hunting" a real dog.
Is the 1850 the only Oliver tractor that used a Perkins engine? They sure sound "sweet"......
Yes.
Can the timing be advanced by rotating the base of pump left or right?
Yes. There should be an arrow on the tag that show the direction of rotation. You'll probably have to loosen the injection lines to get it to turn, but the holes are slotted.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thank you for the video and info