George commented that he was only used to seeing Batman serious and dark. When this came out, this WAS serious and dark. For 30 years prior to this, our only live action Batman was Adam West. This was a radical departure from what we knew. 35 years later, looking back, yes it's a little corny compared to the more modern iterations of the character. But in 1989, this was IT. EDIT: This came out before the creation of the Harley Quinn character. She came from Batman The Animated Series. This movie paved the way for that show.
Burton nailed it in terms of atmosphere ( _set design, costumes, dramatics_ ). Nicholson's joker is the closest portrayal of the original comic book Joker. The later Jokers ( _Ledger, Leto and Phoenix_ ) were grittier versions and not true to the original comic.
@@aimmethod My favorite reaction of the Joaquin Phoenix Joker was from Ralph Garman, who does a podcast with Kevin Smith, but has also written for DC Comics (including "Batman '66"). He said, "The Joker is someone who has panache. He has charisma. He's not some sad loser who rides the bus!"
@aimmethod actually Ledger was probably the truest. In the original comic The Joker was a murderous genius with a clown theme. His plans were elaborate but not silly like Nicholson. There were many years of stories portraying him like this, but this was not how he was originally in 1940.
I was going to make this same reference! I grew up with the Adam West Batman and remember vividly when these films came out. To us, these were dark but with just enough humor and cartoon quality to make the crossover for us at the time.
Guys, you have to understand that when this movie came out for the vast majority of people, their only image of Batman was the comical campy tv show from the 60s. This version of Batman was completely new, and radically different.
The darker, more gritty version of Batman around that time in the comics was the one with the blue cowl & grey suit with the spotlight chest logo. It was after this time when it started becoming more gothic and mature (more bc of Frank Miller and Alan Moore's stuff than these films I should add), but sometimes in a kind of goofy & overwrought way as per 1990s comic books lmao.
The TV show, as kids we didn't realize how campy it was. It's a fun show to watch as an adult, the campiness was intentional. Eartha Kitt as Catwoman was fun. Cesar Romero was Joker, Burgess Meredith ( Rocky's trainer in the movies ) was the Penguin, Frank Gorshin was the Riddler.
Harley Quinn first appeared in the Batman cartoon in 1992, 3 years after this movie came out. Whether her civilian designed was based on this actress, I dunno
It was cool seeing that character develop into an icon real time,when you go back to her first appearance it’s obvious they had no idea how important she would become to the lore
I saw it in the theater opening weekend, and when he said "I'm Batman" the entire theater started clapping and cheering. It's hard to explain to someone younger who has been bombarded by superhero movies most of their lives, how big a deal this was. Kinda like being a kid and seeing Star Wars when it came out in 1977, and experiencing something new and incredible for the first time.
Awesome man... Those are the moments like being around the first week. Song comes out from In artist people barely know and you hear it like the first Day or so and you just know it's gonna be a classic... And you can always say you were there for that... Big ups
@@ApexG321 Yes they were, after Tim Burton's movie came out, the books shifted to a darker noir tone for a while. Jack's Joker is a mix of the original gangster Golden Age version and the Dark Knight Returns psychopath. The Batman TV show made every character a childish caricature of their 50's versions. Nothing like this film.
Vicki Vale's first comics appearance was in 1948, and she lasted until 1963. Bruce's early 1940's love interest was actress Julie Madison, but she didn't last long.
To add, Vicki still shows up from time to time in the comics and adaptations, bit rarely as a serious love interest anymore. She pretty famously showed up in the first issue of Frank Miller's All-Star Batman and really brought the fanservice
The Hollywood legend I have heard on that one is that one of the show’s writers created the character specifically for his partner, a professional voice actress to play in the show.
@@timhibbard4226 I don't think that's completely accurate. I read that the writer was a friend of Arleen Sorkin and based Harley on a scene she had been in on another show where she dressed up as a clown - I think she was mainly a normal actor rather than a voice actor. I believe originally Harley was meant to be a one-off character, but the character was so popular they brought her back.
@@stephenhumphreys9149 Harley was supposed to be a one-off character. It was when Arleen Sorkin came up with the character's voice that Dini and Timm realized Harley's potential and made her a series regular. Cartoons have to have much more lead time than live-action, so Harley's appearances were already locked in before the show aired.
@@reidmason2551 Yeah, that's just about what I'd heard too - particularly that she had been planned beforehand but once Dini got Sorkin hired they then altered the character to fit her better. I actually read somewhere that Timm wasn't a big fan after the first episode but warmed up to the idea of bringing her back as time went on, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Vicki Vale is one of the older Batman characters she was from the late 1940s. She was pretty popular in the silver age not so much in the last 30 years or so and was many of Bruce Wayne’s love interest over the years.
Whats interesting for this movie , is they had chose Sean Young , from Blade Runner to play the part of Vicki Vale . But she got injured before filming , so Kim Basinger was given the role at the last minute . I can understand why she was upset for decades about losing the part . It was a big deal at the time this movie .
Visually Burton went for a more timeless aesthetic pulling heavily from the 1930s mixed with the 1980s from fashion, vehicles, weapons, and technology. Gangsters with Tommy guns, Death of the Waynes everyone is wearing 1920s to 1930s clothes. This is heard in the sound effects as well such as the bullets sounds, very 1930s noir film. Gotham itself was designed by Anton Furst who gave it a very timeless Art Deco meets Gothic Revival designs. In return giving Gotham a very Deco Punk look and feel. This style was also captured in the Batman: Animated Series (1992) but they dived deeper into the timeless aesthetic by having more 1930s to 1940s elements such as people driving around in retro 30/40s cars to blimps flying across the Gotham skyline. The Animated Series was also more Art Deco, dubbing it Dark Deco and using the Chicago World Fair as inspiration, A world where the fair never ended. Funny enough for the Superman: Animated Series also used Art Deco but they gave it a more 1950s retro-futurism look to showcase Metropolis being the city of tomorrow. The cars for example were very 1950s retro-futuristic like a mix of Fallout and even some 1980s sports cars. While people dressed like a mix of the 1950s to the 1990s. This was something the Nolan films lacked for me. Begins featured a cool art deco-like tram system and the narrows looked cool but Dark Knight (Love the film) just looked like Chicago while Dark Knight Rises was just New York City. The city lacked any personality for the sake of Nolan wanting to showcase that “Gotham could be any city” which just removes any uniqueness from this amazing city. Thankfully The Batman (2022) captured Gotham pretty well with heavy amounts of Gothic Revival being filmed in the UK within Liverpool and more importantly Edinburgh a VERY Gothic-looking city. Combined with Chicago as well but edited enough with unique Gothic and Art Deco skyscrapers so it doesn’t just look like Chicago.
In 1989 - this WAS our "dark" on screen Batman. Hard to gather I'm sure, but this is where we were - and Tim Burton and the screenwriters nailed it. I was obsessed with this as an 11 year old. Which means a lot of us over the age of 40 will always love this movie. I can understand though that for younger generations used to the Nolan trilogy - it isn't really going to cut the mustard. Very much enjoyed the reaction though - :)
I didn't think Nolan's films were particularly dark. Grounded yes, but that's not the same thing. Burton's Batman was dark in a highly stylised way that felt like it nodded to a comic book feel, but again that doesn't make it less dark.
@@nebularain3338 Yeah i agree. Nolan's are grounded and somewhat gritty, but still on par with any kinda thriller/crime movies that allready was in the begining of the 2000's. They did some cool things, but nothing really ground breaking, it was down to the actors performances, Bale is really good, Nesson was not bad as Rhaz, if somewhat a bit of a misscast, and Ledger was great has the Joker that is the Anarchist Agent of Chaos. But Nolan's isn't particularly "Dark", itys just, Crime ridled New York like city.
It's very interesting that this movie was considered 'Dark' when it first came out. I actually watched Batman '89 for the first time last night and while there was some dark and gritty elements to it the movie feels more campy and goofy in terms of the general tone to me. I don't say that as a criticism though because I quite liked this movie and I thought it was a lot of fun! I think I still prefer the Nolan movies (Even though I thought The Dark Knight Rises was a bit messy and disjointed) but I need to re-watch them because I haven't watched that trilogy in ages and I want to compare them to the Tim Burton movies!
You two should definitely watch Batman Mask of the Phantasm and Batman the Animated Series. Both feature Kevin Conroy as my favorite Batman and Mark Hamill as my favorite Joker.
There are a bunch of BTAS episodes that are really good especially in the first season or two. After a while they started changing the design and trying to tone it down on the more adult themes. The first round of Clay Face, Man-Bat, and HARDAC are all pretty memorable to me. The ending to the first Baby Doll episode is pretty bitter sweet as well. "Robin's Reckoning", "Night of the Ninja", "Day of the Samurai", "His Silicon Soul" and "Perchance to Dream" as well. Anyway, I would say "Under The Red Hood" and "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" are really good as well. Ra's al Ghul with Talia is also interesting.
@@parker469aI forget what season it is (I’m pretty sure it’s season 2 but due to “production code” or something it might be considered season 3) but one of the best episodes is “Trial”. Anybody else agree? Disagree?
Tim Burton's "Batman" films still has best atmosphere there is. Music, gothic-horror style, color palette added with Danny Elfman's intense theme. Never fails to give me goosebumps. Also, not just a Jack Nicholson dance routine, a Jack Nicholson dance routine set to a Prince song. This movie is gold.
Harley Quinn didn't exist yet as a character at this point. She was created for the Batman animated series that started around the time of this movie's sequel. She was an original character for that series.
Vicki Vale is a DC Comics character who is a journalist and reporter for the Gotham Gazette. She is often depicted as a love interest of Bruce Wayne, Batman's alter ego. Vale first appeared in August 1948 as Batman's equivalent to Lois Lane. She is often romantically attracted to Batman and Bruce Wayne, and she eventually proves that they are the same person in the story Bruce Wayne: Road Home.
Not quite. Richard Donner's *Superman* had already been out for 11 years by that time, and it was a massive success. It was more that a serious Batman was a risky venture because the Adam West show was still so popular and had shaped people's view of the character.
Joe Chill is historically the murderer of the Waynes not the Joker. Nolan uses the character in his first movie and how he portrays him is typically how is portrayed, as a desperate street level crook. Burton was probably aware of the character but wanted to make the story in his film a little more self contained and also more dramatic.
Chill is in the movie, as Napier's sidekick during the origin sequence. This is per co-producer Michael Uslan, who's still involved with the Batman movies to this day.
For many of we older fans the 60's TV Joker was Cesar Romero. He refused to shave of his trademarked pencil mustache and so they just powdered over an obvious mustache. That's how camp it was.
@@martynhill3479 It wasn't just "basically" a comedy, it was *literally* one. Directly pulled from the censorship-enforced silliness of the superhero silver age comics. They made the best they could with the limited source material of the time.
It can't be overstated how huge this movie was when it came out - I'm not really talking about box office (though it was the highest grossing domestic film of that year) - I'm talking about culturally. As others have said, the superhero landscape was pretty barren after Superman. But like Supes, Batman was (and is) one of those iconic fictional characters that transcended every medium - everyone on Earth knew him. To have such an iconic character appear on screen for the first time was massive. You literally only needed the logo to advertise. It was a movie that was able to bridge the gap between the campy live action 60s Batman everyone knew and the grittier, gothic tone of then-contemporary batman comics. Having someone like Michael Keaton - a popular actor many thought was miscast - play the lead only added to the allure. Finishing it off by featuring a top-billed, Oscar caliber actor like Jack Nicholson was the cherry on top. All the stars aligned. Batman merchandise was literally everywhere - you couldn't take two steps without seeing that logo on hats, belt buckles, happy meals, toys etc. Prince's songs charted on Billboard. Posters, art, etc. were plastered on every surface that summer. When I was little, this was the first film in my area that theaters used to test raising ticket prices, and no one cared. The closest comparison in terms of hype/awareness at the time would probably be Jurassic Park. Obviously, when we look back, it doesn't compare with modern day blockbusters - but at a time with no social media and no internet, this was a real pop culture "moment."
Also Batman is more interesting as a character honestly. He's a man with flaws and in gripes with his own demons and Traumas, who tries to make a better world even if he has to use methods that would also earn him to be thrown in jail. Superman is just, OP...
@@Mugthraka It's kind of funny to me that because Superman is so overpowered, the only real personal emotional struggle the writers could come up with for him is staying grounded and "human" in an attempt to keep himself from just going full dictator and taking over the world. Supposedly, that's the _real_ reason he works at the Daily Planet as Clark Kent.
@@Grayskul04 I think he is very good tbh, his take on Joker fits the overall vibe of the movie. Ironically the fact that we've all come to expect that the Batman universe should be gritty and darkly realistic is kind of funny when the source material is in actual fact very goofy.
@@Grayskul04 He is great for how Joker had largely been written before the more "realistic" Joker took hold in the comics. This is much more the Clown Prince of Crime Joker longtime readers would have been familiar with at the time.
@@Grayskul04 please get off their --s . They were good but not better than Jack. Not sayin Jack was the greatest thing since peanut butter but neither one of them is better than him. They couldn’t even get the laugh right. Heath was trying but barely could do it. Phoenix couldn’t do that shit at all. He just resorted to laughing annoyingly hard and calling it a disability. Which was so corny to me. The standard ,imo is mark hamil. And the person who was closest to him was Jack. Jack had the jokes, the laugh and craziness. That makes him better than both Heath and Phoenix. And plus they tried too damn hard with those two. Joker isn’t some wet haired, drugged out looking dude that cut his own face and told 19 different stories about somebody else doing it. Or some mental patient with family problems who has a laughing disability. The joker (imo) is a regal, well dressed and hilarious psychopath. Who was once a regular dude who went through a Traumatic day and became the joker. Thats Jack Nicholson. Besides being a regular dude who went through something traumatic. He’s the joker I grew up watching in the cartoon. I don’t see heath or phoenix as that. They’re both modern 2000s , generic run of the mill dudes who chose to throw on some makeup and call themselves the joker. And if you actually studied all three , you would see how they both took pieces from Jack. Heath growling when he talked (just like Jack talking to his “number one guy”) or when Phoenix shot Robert deniro and danced after. That was literally Jack while shooting his boss. You may say they’re better but they know/knew they were following after him.
Joaquin Phoenix is Joker in name only. His movie only used the names Joker, Wayne, Arkham Asylum to bring in broader general audiences. His movie is based on Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. No inspiration from the comic source material. It's a bit of a pity, honestly, that people lump him in with everyone else because they end up missing the message of the film; a man struggling with mental/emotional issues while living in a society that fosters those issues. General audiences wouldn't have seen that movie though. It's kinda like if Requiem for a Dream was presented as a Spider-Man movie it would've had much greater box office success.
I think the main reason for Batman not showing a lot of martial arts stuff was that Keaton literally couldn't do it in the suit. As a massive rubber monstrosity it looked great, but seriously limited mobility. (Nolan's Batman is the first live-action one to get full movement of his head, and even that took more than one movie to get right)
Keaton also injured his back in a horse riding scene that got deleted from the film, so they had to use a stuntman for most of the Batsuit scenes (apart from the close ups) while he healed up.
Came here to say this. But weirdly, I feel like the immobility of the suit added a weird, other-worldliness to Batman, his whole body having to rotate to look around or navigate corners. I know it wasn't specifically the case, but I could see Tim Burton making the suit very constricting just to make movement seem creepy and alien.
@@taejaskudva2543 The Batsuit in the 1989 film weighed between 80 and 90 pounds. Carl Newman, the ballet dancer who doubled for Keaton in many scenes, had to use all of his dance training to make the suit flow as needed. (Newman's involvement with the franchise was limited to this film, due to the sequels filming in Los Angeles instead of England.) In *Batman Returns,* the suit got whittled down to 55 pounds. In *Batman Forever,* they got the suit down to 35 pounds (although Val Kilmer thought it felt heavier because it was still painful and constrictive to wear). In *Batman & Robin,* they switched over to using a latex foam for the bodysuits as opposed to using straight latex, resulting in a 14-pound costume that was easier to move in. But between the latex foam and the neoprene undersuit, the suit was still unpleasant to wear and felt heavier than it actually was. George Clooney remarked that even lifting his arms over his head was uncomfortable, and that he felt like a little kid could beat him up easily.
The main reason for no martial arts stuff is that Batman '89 was made well before that kind of combat became a thing in Hollywood movies. AFAIK Blade is the movie where that really started, a decade after Batman.
I love to see young people trying to wrap their brains around these classic movies. I was 26 when this movie came out and the whole world went Batmania. The younger generation not having lived it and experienced it at the time need to understand that they will never understand how monumental this movie became in 1989. Even though I do love the Nolan Batman trilogy, Batman and Batman Returns will always have a special place in my heart.
@@Stogie2112 I've never put the Sutherlands in that "villain" community because most of their roles are "good" or good-ish characters. But they definitely have the look.
He was a great ! also when Simone says she thought Jack N. was a big guy ? is just because Palance was almost 6'4 so he made Jack look smaller . He was 6 foot tall so he's not short .
@@reidmason2551 This is true. It's what made his Curley role so freaking hilarious. We were so used to him being a villain that they used that as part of his role's characteristics. So good.
It's important to remember for context that at the time this was the first onscreen depiction of Batman since the campy Adam West version. By contrast, this was dark and a novel approach. I saw this at the theaters when I was 7, so this is the definitive version of Batman for me.
Not only did Prince make songs for the movie, but he also made a song to promote the movie "Batdance". It went to number one on the charts for one week in 1989.
Also a "Batman" album - he played "Partyman" and "Scandalous" live throughout much of the rest of his career but the rest of the songs he barely (if ever) played.
Yep. He was supposed to basically be “scoring” the movie until Burton realized pretty late in the process that the music Prince had written didnt match the vibe he wanted. So he tapped Elfman, who had never scored a movie before. I’m pretty sure that all the diegetic music in the film (at least with words) is all music Prince wrote for the movie.
When it was announced that Michael Keaton was going to be Batman, fans were furious because he was just in Beetlejuice and they couldn't see him as Batman. But that's what makes it so genius, Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne, I would believe it if someone said he was Batman. Keaton's Bruce Wayne would be the last person I'd suspect of being Batman.
Keaton is a better Batman than Bale. Keaton was able to change his entire persona between Wayne and Batman, giving the impression that he was dual personality. All Christian did was just talk in that raspy voice.
When Heath Ledger was announced as the Joker fans had a similar reaction to the reaction my generation had to Keaton. Both turned out to be fantastic in their roles.
@@Deegee_1969 The only way you could have used West in this movie would have been to cast him as Commissioner Gordon. He would have been too old to play Thomas Wayne and never would have agreed to the role even if he'd been offered it (and it would have come off as an insult to older fans), and having him play an older Batman was never an option. In fact, one of the TV show's producers pitched a movie sequel to the series to WB around this time, and the pitch was so awful that WB doubled down on doing a full reboot with a new cast. (One of the proposed gags in that failed pitch? Bruce and Dick burning their crotches on the Batpoles due to not having used them in years. You can see why WB was less than impressed.) Keep in mind, DC Comics at the time was very hateful toward the Adam West version of Batman in general, and was hellbent on pushing Frank Miller's psychotic, villain-in-hero's-clothing reboot of Batman. So overlooking and disregarding West was intentional at the time. It took decades before DC finally was forced to accept that the West version of Batman was never going to go away and made peace with it.
This film plays so differently now compared to when it came out. In 1989, superhero TV and movies had mostly been pitched at kids. The Christopher Reeve Superman wasn't a kids film really, but it was definitely kid-friendly and wholesome. Then Burton came out with this film, which had a far darker edge to it, and more complicated themes. It wasn't "adult" in the sense of an R rating, but it was pitched for adults moreso than kids. So yeah, it's definitely got its campy side and its humor... but it was a new thing in its maturity, and it was both a huge hit and had a good bit of critical acclaim. The later films in this series (culminating with Batman and Robin) leaned more and more into the campy side, which turned them into jokes in the end (as George rightly calls out). I think after that bombed, the lesson was learned that people didn't need so much of the silliness to enjoy the films, and that they could lean into the more serious tone. So now that we've had Nolan and Bale and Ledger and Phoenix, the dark and gritty side is completely ingrained for us. But this was completely surprising and different at the time.
Many great points here, but as a kid from the 80s, the one thing most of these comments seem completely oblivious to is Adam West's Batman from the TV series. I vivdly remember at the time this Batman movie came out, many parents were drawing fond comparisons to that show and Burton's many nods to its camp humor, while also embracing Burton's darker edge (as you noted).
@@Liofa73 A 1960's DC superhero comic book feel, to be more correct. Comic books were always far more than just simple plots with costumed people being silly for child audiences.
Billy Dee "Lando Calrissian" Williams took the small roll of Harvey Dent because he understood what villain he'd become. Unfortunately Burton never did more than 2 Batman movies and Williams never got the chance. He did get some redemption by voicing Two-Face in the Lego Batman movie (which many unironically consider to be one of the best adaptions of Batman to the big screen).
They actually recently did a comic miniseries titled Batman ‘89 and it was written as Tim Burton’s unmade sequel. The story features William’s Dent becoming Two-Face. The artist for the series is really good at likenesses/caricature too, so his art of Dent looks like 90’s Billy Dee. There is a sequel coming out now and it stars a certain Dr. Crane drawn to look like he is played by Jeff Goldblum. It’s definitely worth a read for anyone who likes comics and was bummed we never got that sequel.
He also got paid a lot of money due to his contract which guaranteed he'd play Two-Face, but when Joel Schumacher (aka the man who killed Batman) wanted Tommy Lee Jones they had to buy him out of the contract.
thanks to Mcdonalds!they paid a couple of millions to endorse the 3rd movie, so they had a say in it!they didnt wanted a darker movie than the 2nd which Burton was moving towards!they didnt want the baddie to kill anyone in the movie, so WB paid back the money and got sued since they probably already had made bat toys for Kids Meal!
I really cannot explain just how popular this was when it came out. I finished an exam, caught a bus, went downtown, and waited in line for my friends to see it. They even handed out free comic books at the theatre and I just remember our minds being blown away by this! Still one of the best cartoon-themed comic book movies ever!
Nolan's Trilogy may be "realistic" (in tone, if not in concept or plot execution), but Burton's two films are unsurpassed when it comes to sheer gothic mood and personality. This film manages to be both a fun superhero film, and take itself seriously with some pretty subtle work and acting when it comes to Bruce's trauma. And Jack Nicholson's Joker is supremely quotable. Also, the acclaimed animated series was clearly founded on Burton's vision. So it deserves a lot of props.
Supposedly, Jack Nicholson loved playing the Joker. He seemed to put a lot into the character, so the feeling that things seem forced is probably either a bit of 80s humor not quite landing for you or a purposeful character choice to complicate his personality. Joker is, after all, born out of a real person who probably didn't like losing himself to madness. It's an interesting idea, that Napier is still in there somewhere, fighting against losing himself.
Michael Keaton surprised me, I was so used to his comedic roles, I didn't think he would make a good batman. I saw this and he killed it. He is the best Batman to date.
Anybody who says this is too cartoonish or campy, you GOTTA look at what Batman had been before this came out: the Adam West TV show, and Super-Friends. That was it! That was all the exposure the general non-comic reading public had to the character. Given what had come before, this was mind-blowing at the time.
In the comics, Batman's parents were killed by an ordinary criminal called Joe Chill. The movie decided to switch it to Joker for the "I made you? You made me!" symmetry. Fyi, they were killed on the way home from the cinema, having just watched The Mask of Zorro. Clark Kent was also at the same cinema that night with his parents, but they watched To Kill A Mockingbird. Don't forget to also give a react to the 1966 Batman: The Movie. It's what these four movies are in opposition to, and the Clooney one purposely leans back towards it. For thirty plus years, to the general public, this was Batman.
In one of his interviews, Jack Nicholson said that Batman is one of his favorite films because the studio and the director had no influence on him and he just had fun and got drunk until he lost consciousness. Nicholson was drunk in all scenes of the film.
The Wayne family are one of the founding families of Gotham. The reason many people aren't aware of Bruce Wayne is because comic book-wise, the lore is that after his parents death, he travelled the world learning criminology, hunting/tracking, martial arts, etc., so people don't really know much about him or what he does because his family name was out of the public eye for many years. Also, in the comics, it was a common criminal known as Joe Chill (same as in the Nolan movies) that was responsible for the Wayne's murder.
In this version Batman is more detective. I watch another video that points out that Jack becoming Joker didn't change him. It just made the outside match the inside and be himself. Also Bruce is more of a confident person as Batman implying Batman is the real him.
Bruce is more confident as Batman because Batman is his true (internal) identity. Bruce Wayne is the mask. That version of hin died with his parents in the alley.
Young Jack Napier was free and able to just have fun, his psychotic murderess carefree-ness, his true and enjoyed nature of chaos and anarchy Old Jack Napier was restricted and confined, and was dead inside within that criminal business system/group, trying to work his way up, having lost his youthful "freedom" and fun "innocence" in becoming the Joker (his acid-bath/chemical-mutation), Jack Napier was able to once again be his true self, of being free and having fun again, his true nature of chaos and anarchy
14:22 For a long time I didn't think that Vicki Vale existed before this movie, but apparently she existed in the comics all the way back to 1948. I believe she's always been portrayed as a journalist in one way or another and usually centered around investigating Batman. This apparently isn't even the first time she appeared on screen. The character was in a Batman adventure serial back in 1949 called "Batman and Robin."
On the original Nintendo Entertainment System(NES), there is a Batman game. Also Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were originally one universe. There was supposed to be a Batman vs Superman movie and Nicholas Cage was Superman. He had long hair like in ConAir and wore both the blue suit and the black suit. Then there was supposed to be a Batman Arkham Asylum movie with Scarecrow and all the villains capture Batman and put him on a conman led court trial. And Batman even was supposed to see Joker via the Scarecrow toxin. The plans for the 2 movies were cancelled after Batman and Robin didn't make as much money as the studio expected.
Fun fact. Some of the surgery tools used by the guy who worked on Joker are the same props used by Steve Martin's dentist character in Little Shop of Horrors.
Nolan’s “Bat Man” was so grounded in reality and plausibility, to the point where it was more of a straight-up crime thriller than a superhero movie, and the idea of The Penguin was considered too silly to be considered as a future villain. This Batman universe had fantastical elements to make it more dynamic and comic bookish.
Nolan definitely made a psychological crime drama more than he made a comic book movie. He also infused a whole lot of James Bond since he's always wanted to direct a Bond movie. He made Lucius Fox into Q for Batman giving him all his tech gear. Most of the action scenes are almost direct copies of Bond action and crime thrillers like Heat.
I was actually a little disappointed in the second movie because of how realistic it went. Like, "That's not Gotham City, it's just Chicago!" Whereas Batman Begins had a lot more of that stylized version of Gotham.
one of the reasons i dislike dark knight rises (aside from the fact you could kinda tell nolan only made it because they bankrolled inception) is because it's super over the top but nolan also wants it to be gritty and realistic, never quite comes together for me.
This was the first great bat suit. Everything before this it was basically blue spandex. By far the best car as well. This pretty much set the stage for all the movies to come.
Great reaction, and really great comments. This Batman was much closer to the comics of the 50s and 60s where everything was over the top with giant props and big fights. And the first Batman was a 1930s movie serial (like Buck Rogers) which is fun. The Batmobile was a 1936 Buik lol.
Nicholson is NOT 5'10". I don't care if that's what he's listed at. He looks maybe 5'8" in his movies at best. Watch him standing right next to Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men and how they're essentially the same height.
@@doughbafett It's well known that Tom Cruise has been known to stand on things to raise his height in movies, particularly in two shots with another character that he doesn't wanna look tiny next to.
When this movie came out, Harley Quinn wasn't created as a character yet. She first appeared in Batman the Animated Series, which came out after Batman Returns. 😅
Mark Hamill has the best interpretation of Joker, but he probably benefits from getting so much material to work with in tv, animated movies, & video games as opposed to just a single movie for most others.
Totally Bat-tastic reaction!!! This is my favorite Batman movie, favorite Batman and favorite Joker. When this came out, me and my friends bought tickets early and when we got to the theater the line was ungodly long. We walked right past everyone, handed our tickets to the doorman and went on in, got our concessions and got our pick of seating before anybody else......there were people cussing at us and giving us the mean eyes but we didn't give a crap cause this was a huge event, a big deal if you would...... being comic book fans, we were on cloud 9 so to speak. The reason I truly like this movie better than any other Batman movie is this one truly feels like a comic book come to life!!!! The way it transitions from scene to scene feels like the panels of a comic book. Jack Nicholson's Joker is the chef's kiss! It's the most like the Joker from the comics at the time with even a little bit of Cesear Romero's Joker from the 1966 Adam West Batman TV show thrown in. The Batmobile in this movie is definitely the coolest (I've still got my original toy of it from the movie)! What else can you say about Danny Elfman's music score that hasn't been said before! I loved Simone's "pew pew pew" when the actual church pews got knocked over.... that was comedy gold!!!! Again awesome reaction!!! Many blessings to you and yours!!!
I went on my first date to this movie when I was 14 We were both so nervous that shortly after finding our seats she spilled the popcorn, and I spilled our drinks. Fortunately the theater was nice enough to replace everything. I remember the theater was the old Richmond Square Famous Players cinema beside the mall in my home town of Richmond BC.
If you wanted a Disney reference, you could have gone with "I am the terror that flaps in the night. I am the bubble gum that sticks to your hair. I am... Darkwing Duck!"
Simone’s Batman Returns story was very innocent and wholesome. I’m sure I would have had the same experience in my youth if my Grandma didn’t own the first one on VHS and all I saw was the poster for Batman Returns when my family and I went to Red Robin every weekend.😂 Now I’m stoked for George to witness Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman. He will be appropriately SCROUSED when he sees her. Maybe Penguin too, who knows…
It's crazy how much Tim Burton was my childhood, with this and "Beetlejuice". Not only do I remember how phenomenal the trailer and ad campaign were but the moment my dad told me that we were going to see this. Batman was everywhere in 1989. You can imagine how much an 8-year-old little guy just loved every minute of this movie.
Yes, Jack Nicholson seems to have had a positive experience working on Batman. He had a strong negotiating position when he was proposed to play the Joker in Tim Burton’s 1989 adaption of Batman1. His involvement in the Batman movie was considered crucial by much of the production team2. As a result, he was able to set forth some strict contract requirements2, including "total makeup control"3 and adjustments to the shooting schedule around his Los Angeles Lakers’ home games3. Despite an incident on set where he expressed frustration, Nicholson’s performance became even more fervid and the movie ultimately established itself as a billion-dollar franchise4. His deal was re-negotiated to create an ultimate payoff of roughly $50 million, including participations in Batman profits and merchandising4. This suggests that Nicholson was not only committed to his role but also benefited significantly from it.
Bruce Wayne and fame.... You need to remember that in the 80s there was no internet. There was no ability to google someone and find out their entire life history. Unless you read the newspaper at the time, you were unlikely to have known anything about Bruce Wayne's parents and nothing about him as a person at all if he didn't advertise himself or get himself in the papers alot. The whole "Bruce Wayne is a multi-billionaire and could buy half the city" is a reasonably new thing and the story works better if he is "just" a multi-millionaire. Once you start get billions then he could do far more to help the city through direct funding and support than running around beating up badguys where as a millionaire detective with gadgets it makes sense that he does what he does. Great reaction, can't wait to see Batman Returns here!
Yeah, in retrospect making Bruce Wayne into a guy who's richer than god (if you'll pardon the expression) was a really bad move. It's no wonder you get so many people these days trying to argue that he's more villainous for his inaction as a philanthropist when modern tellings of the Batman story seem to do everything they can to make him less sympathetic by making him richer and richer. It's even crazier because of just how unnecessary it is--when being a millionaire is more than enough to make him into an eccentric high-tech detective, there's really no need to make him a Bezos-level billionaire magnate. Personally, I blame this problem primarily on DC's insistence on having Batman be in the same universe as all their other heroes--when you have almost literal gods among men, the only way a guy like Batman can compete is if he has enough wealth to be able to artificially recreate similar capabilities. As good as Justice League stories can be, I personally think that the JLA was probably the biggest misstep they could have made with regard to how the writers over the years have handled Batman as a character.
“I thought Jack Nicholson was a big guy” - it’s easy to look small next to Jack Palance. He was 6-4, and a Western movie legend, most famously as the villain in the movie “Shane.” (Well, his most famous role now is probably “City Slickers,” for which he won an Oscar, but in terms of classic Westerns.)
Burton said at the time that he had to work to find an actor who could convincingly intimidate Jack Nicholson. Height was a factor, but Palance also had tremendous presence.
@@anthonyleecollins9319fun fact: Jack Nicholson wasn’t interested in playing the Joker at first, so they teased Robin Williams with the role… and Williams said yes. So they told Nicholson that Robin Williams was gonna take the role if he didn’t do Nicholson changed his mind. So they basically used Robin Williams as bait which is pretty f*cked up
I remember getting the VHS for this for my birthday from my dad, I watched it soo much that it wore out the tape in the cassette. I would run around my living room with a batman mask and cape a act out the scenes with my dad. LOOOOVE THIS MOVIE and best Joker tied with Dark Knight.
One thing I always got a laugh about with the VHS was the Diet Coke advertisement before the movie actually began. Michael Gough must have been paid well for that, especially with the long sigh of enjoyment after taking a sip at the end.
Keep in mind that in terms of lore, there's been like 30 years of Batman stories since this film came out. They went with more of the classic, very early Batman. Early on, there was not much said about Bruce's family or Gotham. That was not a prominent part of stories. In fact, Arkham Asylum didn't get invented till '74. As for Batman, my understanding is that he's supposed to be in his 20s when he dons the cape, but Michael Keaton - as is often the case with actors - is about 10-15 years older than he should be to be playing the role. They always want a leading man with gravitas, which virtually always results in hiring an older actor, like Maguire's Spider-Man, who once again was about 15 years older than the character he was portraying. Vicki Vale's first appearance was in 1948. The Jack Napier identity for Joker was invented for this movie, but the vat of chemicals origin is classic lore. Also, Batman's abilities and tech have been greatly leveled up in the last few decades. For the first few decades, he used to wear a cloth suit that was getting ripped all the time. Now he's like Iron Man, and he doesn't even bother to dodge bullets. Originally, he didn't really have the ability to glide, and mainly was just running around at street level in his cape and sometimes swinging from a batline that was thrown, not a powered grappling hook. He did have the full set of vehicles early on, and he did have the bat cave. His early martial arts training was along the lines of some boxing and judo. Early on, your average person could get the drop on him and knock him out.
Also unlike what you would see today, it was easier to have your life under warps than exposed to everyone. Nowadays its impossible for a celibrity or billionaire to wipe his ass, without twitter and the media writting about it 5 mins later. But this is still a movie that takes places in the 80's, so with the correct ways and "bribes" it would have been easier as a Billionaire to keep things under wraps and people would've forgotten about it, specially if it happened in the late 60's. Plus while being important in later Lore like Nolan's trilogy, the Waynes, despite their wealth, were Less Public figures.
That small effect of Joker wiping his forehead to show the white underneath was an incredibly difficult effect to pull off. If you’re interested definitely check out some of the behind the scenes features.
When this film came out in 1989, the only other superhero films around were the Christopher Reeve Superman films, which were made in 1978, 1980, 1983, and 1987. Batman was much darker and felt very serious and gritty in comparison.
Vicky Vale does appear in the comics as a side character and occasionally love interest for Bruce. However her most prominent appearances beyond this film were arguably in the classic Fox Batman the Animated Series from the 90’s. In that show she was actually a tv news reporter and basically appeared any time Bruce or other characters were watching the news on the show.
Yeah, I was just about to comment on this, she's been around since the 40's apparently, and has her own Wikipedia page. Also known as Victoria Vale, and seems to have been mostly associated initially with investigating the stories around Batman or the links between Wayne and Batman.
The hype around this movie was insane. So much money went into promoting it. TV ads, trailers, posters everywhere. The music by Prince was a big part of making it well know before it hit theathers. Nicholson was huge at this time, that also helped. And the movie didn't let us down. An amazing movie in the theaters with lots of fans looking forward to a live action Batman! :) Thanks for your content from Denmark.
So regarding George's multiple questions about "lore" - ever since this movie, Batman, which could be considered the first real "modern" superhero movie (yes, I know there have been others), the comics are pretty much an inspiration and not word-for-word requirements. A lot of liberties are taken and each filmmaker sort of gets to use their own interpretation. The comics, in multiple series focusing on different topics, have gone on for almost a century, so there have been a LOT of different Batman versions. I typically watch superhero movies with an open mind and just enjoy the ride.
The people obsessed with lore only handicap themselves from having a good time. Their slavish devotion to "muh comic books" is a detriment to only their own.
Fun fact: the surgical props used in joker's facial reconstruction are the same props from the dentist in little shop of horrors Bob kane who created batman personally viuched for castingnjack Nicholson as the joker Michael ketonn hated the batsuit because it set off his claustrophobia, but bith he and burton decided it would help his performance (which isnwhy he looks so uncomfortable) The last act in the cathedral was tacked kn last minuet by producer jon peters behind burtons back. The film was filmed in london with many ofbthe extras actually being british. Sean young (rachel from bladerunner) was originally cast as vickie vale but was injured in a horseriding accident just before filming so had to drop out The film was released on the 50th anniversary of the day that the first comic depliction of batman was released. The axis chemical plant was the same disused powerstation used to film aliens, and even still had then hive set inside During filming kim basinger split from her husband and hooked up with producer jon peters resulting in jack Nicholson calling her out for showing upmlate because she was "f#*king the producer" When vicki and knox are exploring the mannor and looking at the armour the jokes were all adlibed The famous "I'm batman" line was adlibbed by keton. In the script he says "I'm the knight" Keton being cast as batman was on purpose because he looked the least likely to be batman Originally batman's parents were killed by a random thug, when the creator saw the film he kicked himself for not thinking of it himself calling it genius. For a while it was batman lore among other people over the years, but officially it was joe chill
Anton Furst was the production designer and really leaned in on the Art Deco feel of this movie, which then inspired the Batman Animated series that came out after. This movie was also one of the first successful dives into the tentpole comic movies since Superman in 1978 (and some other failed attempts in between) and the only frame of reference when this came out was the campy 1960's Batman tv show. Tim Burton was referencing that with his own style in this movie. Harley Quinn and other more popular Batman characters don't really show up until after the animated series and everything really took off. What's funny was that this movie was considered "dark" in its interpretation of the Joker and Batman as characters (again, because the only reference was the 1960s show...which you guys should watch at least one episode of just to say you have). I worked with David Goyer on a film back in 2007...he had written Batman Begins and wrote the story for The Dark Knight. He knows comic lore like no one else I've met so he was the one who dug up the obscure ninja training and all that. He said that they also referenced Malcom McDowell's character from A Clockwork Orange for Heath Ledger's Joker...rather than a vat of acid. Nolan's version is actually closer to the original comics (started in the depression). Anyway, sorry for the RUclips comment info dump. Thought you might like it :).
I'd say that the movie is a Mix of Art-Deco and Neo-Gothic, while the animated series went all in with the Art Deco to the point where you never knew if it took place in the 90's or the 50's to be honest.
The big difference is that this still feels like a comic book movie. Whereas the Nolan movies onwards decided to take a fantastical character like Batman, and attempted to make him fit into the real world (which doesn't work, in my opinion). It's virtually impossible to imagine superpowered Batman villains like Clayface and Mr. Freeze in his version of Gotham.
@@Rocket1377I've always felt that as well. He's a comic book character and this feels like a super hero movie off the pages of a comic book. The Nolan movies didnt do anything for me. Too much dialogue and boring at times and lacked the feel of theatrics and a good score.
@@Rocket1377 It's always deemed impossible until someone comes along and does it. For the ones who are not in the business of creating, they only believe in what was already done because they can't imagine something besides what they've already seen.
I grew up with the animated series, so Mark Hamill is always the one for me, but I do appreciate Cesar Romero's, Heath Ledger's, and Jack Nicholson's Jokers too. They all have their own twists on the character, which is always good.
Batman is a comic book hero. It is supossed to be unrealistic and with unexpected gadgits. What doesn't make sense is trying to make him into a "serious" character, like the later movies do. Enjoy it, it is a fun trip! You don't go to roller coaster ride and complain that it can't take you to your job.😊😊😊😊
OMG, I was looking away when the commercial started and I totally thought that was an ad from RUclips. It took a second for me to go "wait, that sorta sounds like...". 😂 Killer job. Now I'm already smiling before the movie starts
6:26 Harley Quinn actually didn't exist yet at this point in time! She was not introduced until an episode the animated series a few years after this film
Darkwing Duck would be a better opening reference. I think George is overlooking who directed this movie, there should be an expected tone for any Burton movie
The Joker that I grew up with was Cesar Romero from the 1966 Batman television series and movie starring Adam West as Batman and Burt Ward as Robin. Certainly it was modeled as a campy, comic-book styled show rather than the darker incarnations that other movies took, but regardless, Romero's Joker was a very stylized choice worth checking out.
@@terrylandess6072 For me, the whole series rides on the nostalgia factor and childhood memories based around the series, characters and costumes. Same is true for a number of other series from that era. Star Trek TOS, Tom Baker era Dr. Who, the original run from The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone, and especially the original series of 5 Planet of the Apes from the late '60s / early '70s (including the television series). A re-watch of Logan's Run (the movie) as well as the television series similarly comes with certain allowances for writing that didn't always age well and dated effects.)
Yes, all the villains were so over the top they were great. No doubt Carey took a lot from the 60's Riddler, but DeVito really made the Penguin his own IMHO
@@Cheepchipsable I enjoyed both Frank Gorshin and Jim Carrey in the role and certainly noted the similarities. I thought Danny DeVito's Penguin was well-acted and it fit the Tim Burton aesthetic, so it was a good choice, but I prefer the ritzy, tuxedo-clad Burgess Meredith's stylish portrayal because DeVito's Penguin was pretty filthy, smelly and disgustingly gross.
Jack Nicholson's Joker is definitely a lot goofier than most modern interpretations, but keep in mind that the only Joker mainstream audiences were exposed to at the time was the Cesar Romero version from the Adam West Batman show, so in comparison, he's leagues darker. Also, I kind of like weird and off-putting Joker; Idk it has its own charms.
What are you talking about? you have it backwards… Nicholson’s Joker was the closest to the modern Joker than any other portrayal of him. All other performances of the Joker haven’t been traditional
@@nsasupporter7557 Exactly, Jack Nicholson is literally how Joker acts in almost every comic Heath Ledger's was great but that is not Joker from the comics. Joker is supposed to be funny and creepy.
@@nsasupporter7557 Both Nolan and Ledger stated multiple times in interviews at the time that they poured over the comics to make sure Ledger's portrayal was as accurate to the source material as possible. That's why I personally find the Dark Knight version of the character a bit disappointing. Ledger's portrayal is great, but it's not accurate to the comic books as a whole, only to a few specific stories in particular, which is not what was promised by Nolan.
@@tehdipstick Ledger played the Joker perfectly as that version of Batman, if you catch my drift. Nolan’s movies weren’t comic book movies… they were serious crime dramas and Ledger’s Joker matched that style
The Waynes being founders of the city didn't come about until much later in the comics. Also Jack Napier being the murdered of that Waynes was only invented for this movie.
Harley Quinn was invented for the Batman Animated Series which debuted after this film in 1992. She was such a hit that she became part of the comic book canon and lore. So that means when Batman started in 1939 there were 53 years of Batman history and comic book lore WITHOUT Harley Quinn. That's how big of an impact she made. And Vicky Vale was Batman's love interest for years before the movie. The later movies just kind of left her behind and we've never heard of her again. Also, this is the best bat suit ever. How dare you diss it. :P
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
George commented that he was only used to seeing Batman serious and dark. When this came out, this WAS serious and dark. For 30 years prior to this, our only live action Batman was Adam West. This was a radical departure from what we knew. 35 years later, looking back, yes it's a little corny compared to the more modern iterations of the character. But in 1989, this was IT. EDIT: This came out before the creation of the Harley Quinn character. She came from Batman The Animated Series. This movie paved the way for that show.
Burton nailed it in terms of atmosphere ( _set design, costumes, dramatics_ ). Nicholson's joker is the closest portrayal of the original comic book Joker. The later Jokers ( _Ledger, Leto and Phoenix_ ) were grittier versions and not true to the original comic.
@@aimmethod My favorite reaction of the Joaquin Phoenix Joker was from Ralph Garman, who does a podcast with Kevin Smith, but has also written for DC Comics (including "Batman '66"). He said, "The Joker is someone who has panache. He has charisma. He's not some sad loser who rides the bus!"
Yeah wtf!? I love George, but has he seen Batman Forever or Batman & Robin 🤨 lmao?
@aimmethod actually Ledger was probably the truest. In the original comic The Joker was a murderous genius with a clown theme. His plans were elaborate but not silly like Nicholson. There were many years of stories portraying him like this, but this was not how he was originally in 1940.
I was going to make this same reference! I grew up with the Adam West Batman and remember vividly when these films came out. To us, these were dark but with just enough humor and cartoon quality to make the crossover for us at the time.
Guys, you have to understand that when this movie came out for the vast majority of people, their only image of Batman was the comical campy tv show from the 60s. This version of Batman was completely new, and radically different.
The darker, more gritty version of Batman around that time in the comics was the one with the blue cowl & grey suit with the spotlight chest logo. It was after this time when it started becoming more gothic and mature (more bc of Frank Miller and Alan Moore's stuff than these films I should add), but sometimes in a kind of goofy & overwrought way as per 1990s comic books lmao.
The TV show, as kids we didn't realize how campy it was. It's a fun show to watch as an adult, the campiness was intentional. Eartha Kitt as Catwoman was fun. Cesar Romero was Joker, Burgess Meredith ( Rocky's trainer in the movies ) was the Penguin, Frank Gorshin was the Riddler.
Hail Caesar Romero, a very good Joker. He refused to shave his mustache, so they used makeup to disguise it.
@brachiator1 if that was made in the 2010s they'd have CGI'd over it.
@@treetopjones737 I could never see what people like in the 60s Batman TV show. I still can't. I'm probably too old :D
Harley Quinn first appeared in the Batman cartoon in 1992, 3 years after this movie came out. Whether her civilian designed was based on this actress, I dunno
Harley Quinns design was based on her voice actress Arleen Sorkin
@@dg-my9pn RIP😢
It was cool seeing that character develop into an icon real time,when you go back to her first appearance it’s obvious they had no idea how important she would become to the lore
That actress is Jerry Hall. Before this movie, she was mostly famous for being a supermodel and Mick Jagger's long time girlfriend.
I love that Harley Quinn is such an iconic character that she feels like she's been around for longer than she has.
I saw it in the theater opening weekend, and when he said "I'm Batman" the entire theater started clapping and cheering. It's hard to explain to someone younger who has been bombarded by superhero movies most of their lives, how big a deal this was. Kinda like being a kid and seeing Star Wars when it came out in 1977, and experiencing something new and incredible for the first time.
Awesome man... Those are the moments like being around the first week. Song comes out from In artist people barely know and you hear it like the first Day or so and you just know it's gonna be a classic... And you can always say you were there for that... Big ups
More like seeing Richard Donner's Superman back in 1978.
Jack Nicholson is *very* much like how The Joker was in the comics around this time. Probably the best realisation of a comic book Joker in film.
Ledger, Leto, the new Joker guy. They are good actors but only Nicholson played him like in the comics.
More like how the original Batman TV series. Batman comic books of the late 80s and 90s were not like this.
@@ApexG321 Yes they were, after Tim Burton's movie came out, the books shifted to a darker noir tone for a while. Jack's Joker is a mix of the original gangster Golden Age version and the Dark Knight Returns psychopath. The Batman TV show made every character a childish caricature of their 50's versions. Nothing like this film.
@@stonebaxter I disagree completely.
No the 80's comics were like that jack was like the 80's comic joker he was very dark.@@ApexG321
people forget that *THIS* was the original dark & gritty Batman.
Vicki Vale was Bruce Wayne's love interest in the early 1940s. She was basically Lois Lane, constantly trying to prove Bruce was Batman.
Vicki Vale's first comics appearance was in 1948, and she lasted until 1963.
Bruce's early 1940's love interest was actress Julie Madison, but she didn't last long.
To add, Vicki still shows up from time to time in the comics and adaptations, bit rarely as a serious love interest anymore. She pretty famously showed up in the first issue of Frank Miller's All-Star Batman and really brought the fanservice
@@dngillikin Thanks for the clarification! I could've sworn Julie Madison only appeared a couple of times.
Harley literally didn't exist at this point. She was created for Batman: The Animated Series which was created in the wake of the Tim Burton movies.
The Hollywood legend I have heard on that one is that one of the show’s writers created the character specifically for his partner, a professional voice actress to play in the show.
@@timhibbard4226 I don't think that's completely accurate. I read that the writer was a friend of Arleen Sorkin and based Harley on a scene she had been in on another show where she dressed up as a clown - I think she was mainly a normal actor rather than a voice actor. I believe originally Harley was meant to be a one-off character, but the character was so popular they brought her back.
That is correct. Batman: The Animated Series "Joker's Favor" (September 11, 1992)
@@stephenhumphreys9149 Harley was supposed to be a one-off character. It was when Arleen Sorkin came up with the character's voice that Dini and Timm realized Harley's potential and made her a series regular. Cartoons have to have much more lead time than live-action, so Harley's appearances were already locked in before the show aired.
@@reidmason2551 Yeah, that's just about what I'd heard too - particularly that she had been planned beforehand but once Dini got Sorkin hired they then altered the character to fit her better. I actually read somewhere that Timm wasn't a big fan after the first episode but warmed up to the idea of bringing her back as time went on, but I'm not sure how accurate that is.
Vicki Vale is one of the older Batman characters she was from the late 1940s. She was pretty popular in the silver age not so much in the last 30 years or so and was many of Bruce Wayne’s love interest over the years.
Whats interesting for this movie , is they had chose Sean Young , from Blade Runner to play the part of Vicki Vale . But she got injured before filming , so Kim Basinger was given the role at the last minute . I can understand why she was upset for decades about losing the part . It was a big deal at the time this movie .
Was popular enough to get into the Arkham games.
Basically Batman's own Lois Lane.
Visually Burton went for a more timeless aesthetic pulling heavily from the 1930s mixed with the 1980s from fashion, vehicles, weapons, and technology. Gangsters with Tommy guns, Death of the Waynes everyone is wearing 1920s to 1930s clothes. This is heard in the sound effects as well such as the bullets sounds, very 1930s noir film.
Gotham itself was designed by Anton Furst who gave it a very timeless Art Deco meets Gothic Revival designs. In return giving Gotham a very Deco Punk look and feel. This style was also captured in the Batman: Animated Series (1992) but they dived deeper into the timeless aesthetic by having more 1930s to 1940s elements such as people driving around in retro 30/40s cars to blimps flying across the Gotham skyline. The Animated Series was also more Art Deco, dubbing it Dark Deco and using the Chicago World Fair as inspiration, A world where the fair never ended.
Funny enough for the Superman: Animated Series also used Art Deco but they gave it a more 1950s retro-futurism look to showcase Metropolis being the city of tomorrow. The cars for example were very 1950s retro-futuristic like a mix of Fallout and even some 1980s sports cars. While people dressed like a mix of the 1950s to the 1990s.
This was something the Nolan films lacked for me. Begins featured a cool art deco-like tram system and the narrows looked cool but Dark Knight (Love the film) just looked like Chicago while Dark Knight Rises was just New York City. The city lacked any personality for the sake of Nolan wanting to showcase that “Gotham could be any city” which just removes any uniqueness from this amazing city. Thankfully The Batman (2022) captured Gotham pretty well with heavy amounts of Gothic Revival being filmed in the UK within Liverpool and more importantly Edinburgh a VERY Gothic-looking city. Combined with Chicago as well but edited enough with unique Gothic and Art Deco skyscrapers so it doesn’t just look like Chicago.
Thank you for the design history of the Batman movies.
I never even heard of The Batman 2022
Jeez how many are there....
In 1989 - this WAS our "dark" on screen Batman. Hard to gather I'm sure, but this is where we were - and Tim Burton and the screenwriters nailed it. I was obsessed with this as an 11 year old. Which means a lot of us over the age of 40 will always love this movie. I can understand though that for younger generations used to the Nolan trilogy - it isn't really going to cut the mustard. Very much enjoyed the reaction though - :)
Yep, well compared to what we had before, good ol colorful Adam West Batman tv series and a movie! This was dark as hell in comparison!
I didn't think Nolan's films were particularly dark. Grounded yes, but that's not the same thing.
Burton's Batman was dark in a highly stylised way that felt like it nodded to a comic book feel, but again that doesn't make it less dark.
@@nebularain3338 Yeah i agree.
Nolan's are grounded and somewhat gritty, but still on par with any kinda thriller/crime movies that allready was in the begining of the 2000's.
They did some cool things, but nothing really ground breaking, it was down to the actors performances, Bale is really good, Nesson was not bad as Rhaz, if somewhat a bit of a misscast, and Ledger was great has the Joker that is the Anarchist Agent of Chaos.
But Nolan's isn't particularly "Dark", itys just, Crime ridled New York like city.
As a younger person Batman 1989 and Batman Returns are so much better than the Nolan Trilogy.
It's very interesting that this movie was considered 'Dark' when it first came out. I actually watched Batman '89 for the first time last night and while there was some dark and gritty elements to it the movie feels more campy and goofy in terms of the general tone to me. I don't say that as a criticism though because I quite liked this movie and I thought it was a lot of fun! I think I still prefer the Nolan movies (Even though I thought The Dark Knight Rises was a bit messy and disjointed) but I need to re-watch them because I haven't watched that trilogy in ages and I want to compare them to the Tim Burton movies!
You two should definitely watch Batman Mask of the Phantasm and Batman the Animated Series. Both feature Kevin Conroy as my favorite Batman and Mark Hamill as my favorite Joker.
There are a bunch of BTAS episodes that are really good especially in the first season or two. After a while they started changing the design and trying to tone it down on the more adult themes. The first round of Clay Face, Man-Bat, and HARDAC are all pretty memorable to me. The ending to the first Baby Doll episode is pretty bitter sweet as well. "Robin's Reckoning", "Night of the Ninja", "Day of the Samurai", "His Silicon Soul" and "Perchance to Dream" as well.
Anyway, I would say "Under The Red Hood" and "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker" are really good as well.
Ra's al Ghul with Talia is also interesting.
@@parker469aI forget what season it is (I’m pretty sure it’s season 2 but due to “production code” or something it might be considered season 3) but one of the best episodes is “Trial”. Anybody else agree? Disagree?
Might as well just watch a lot of DC animated series/films. Arguably better than most of the live-action presentations.
Part of me hopes you watch the 66 Batman movie for some lighthearted fun
Mask of the Phantasm just might be the best Bats movie out there.
Tim Burton's "Batman" films still has best atmosphere there is. Music, gothic-horror style, color palette added with Danny Elfman's intense theme. Never fails to give me goosebumps.
Also, not just a Jack Nicholson dance routine, a Jack Nicholson dance routine set to a Prince song. This movie is gold.
Harley Quinn didn't exist yet as a character at this point. She was created for the Batman animated series that started around the time of this movie's sequel. She was an original character for that series.
Vicki Vale is a DC Comics character who is a journalist and reporter for the Gotham Gazette. She is often depicted as a love interest of Bruce Wayne, Batman's alter ego. Vale first appeared in August 1948 as Batman's equivalent to Lois Lane. She is often romantically attracted to Batman and Bruce Wayne, and she eventually proves that they are the same person in the story Bruce Wayne: Road Home.
His other two major love interests are Selina Kyle and Talia al Ghul, the mother of Damian Wayne.
Back then, making a serious movie about a comic book was considered ludicrous.
Not quite. Richard Donner's *Superman* had already been out for 11 years by that time, and it was a massive success. It was more that a serious Batman was a risky venture because the Adam West show was still so popular and had shaped people's view of the character.
Joe Chill is historically the murderer of the Waynes not the Joker. Nolan uses the character in his first movie and how he portrays him is typically how is portrayed, as a desperate street level crook.
Burton was probably aware of the character but wanted to make the story in his film a little more self contained and also more dramatic.
Probably also didn't expect to turn this into a series when he first made it either. This was more popular than expected, I'm pretty sure.
Chill is in the movie, as Napier's sidekick during the origin sequence. This is per co-producer Michael Uslan, who's still involved with the Batman movies to this day.
There is this unfortunate trope that events have to refer back to themselves and be connected in media.
People have been trained to expect it.
For many of we older fans the 60's TV Joker was Cesar Romero. He refused to shave of his trademarked pencil mustache and so they just powdered over an obvious mustache. That's how camp it was.
I would love to see Simone and George react to the 60's Batman film, it's so camp it's basically a comedy
@@martynhill3479 It wasn't just "basically" a comedy, it was *literally* one.
Directly pulled from the censorship-enforced silliness of the superhero silver age comics. They made the best they could with the limited source material of the time.
That just showed how unprofessional he was and he didn't give a damn just to get it done
I can't explain to you how excited we were when this was first announced, and how confused we were that Beetlejuice was playing Batman.
He was always Mr. Mom to me before playing a dead guy or a bat guy.
i was a projectionist back then we had people asking which screen had the batman trailer running
Not confused here; just a little anxious until we saw what he could do.
@@somthingbrutal What a time! People buying tickets for a movie specifically for a trailer and then some just walking out!
Tom Hanks must have really freaked you out over his career.
It can't be overstated how huge this movie was when it came out - I'm not really talking about box office (though it was the highest grossing domestic film of that year) - I'm talking about culturally. As others have said, the superhero landscape was pretty barren after Superman. But like Supes, Batman was (and is) one of those iconic fictional characters that transcended every medium - everyone on Earth knew him. To have such an iconic character appear on screen for the first time was massive. You literally only needed the logo to advertise. It was a movie that was able to bridge the gap between the campy live action 60s Batman everyone knew and the grittier, gothic tone of then-contemporary batman comics. Having someone like Michael Keaton - a popular actor many thought was miscast - play the lead only added to the allure. Finishing it off by featuring a top-billed, Oscar caliber actor like Jack Nicholson was the cherry on top. All the stars aligned.
Batman merchandise was literally everywhere - you couldn't take two steps without seeing that logo on hats, belt buckles, happy meals, toys etc. Prince's songs charted on Billboard. Posters, art, etc. were plastered on every surface that summer. When I was little, this was the first film in my area that theaters used to test raising ticket prices, and no one cared. The closest comparison in terms of hype/awareness at the time would probably be Jurassic Park. Obviously, when we look back, it doesn't compare with modern day blockbusters - but at a time with no social media and no internet, this was a real pop culture "moment."
Also Batman is more interesting as a character honestly.
He's a man with flaws and in gripes with his own demons and Traumas, who tries to make a better world even if he has to use methods that would also earn him to be thrown in jail.
Superman is just, OP...
@@Mugthraka It's kind of funny to me that because Superman is so overpowered, the only real personal emotional struggle the writers could come up with for him is staying grounded and "human" in an attempt to keep himself from just going full dictator and taking over the world. Supposedly, that's the _real_ reason he works at the Daily Planet as Clark Kent.
Simone's love of her own intros is always my favorite. She has pure joy over the chaos of it all.
Even if I haven't seen the movie they're reacting to, I'll always check out the intro.
With all respect to Heath Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix, Jack didnt have to immerse himself or study nonstop to become the Joker. He just had to show up.
Explains why he wasn’t anywhere near as good as those two.
@@Grayskul04 I think he is very good tbh, his take on Joker fits the overall vibe of the movie. Ironically the fact that we've all come to expect that the Batman universe should be gritty and darkly realistic is kind of funny when the source material is in actual fact very goofy.
@@Grayskul04 He is great for how Joker had largely been written before the more "realistic" Joker took hold in the comics. This is much more the Clown Prince of Crime Joker longtime readers would have been familiar with at the time.
@@Grayskul04 please get off their --s . They were good but not better than Jack. Not sayin Jack was the greatest thing since peanut butter but neither one of them is better than him. They couldn’t even get the laugh right. Heath was trying but barely could do it. Phoenix couldn’t do that shit at all. He just resorted to laughing annoyingly hard and calling it a disability. Which was so corny to me. The standard ,imo is mark hamil. And the person who was closest to him was Jack. Jack had the jokes, the laugh and craziness. That makes him better than both Heath and Phoenix. And plus they tried too damn hard with those two. Joker isn’t some wet haired, drugged out looking dude that cut his own face and told 19 different stories about somebody else doing it. Or some mental patient with family problems who has a laughing disability. The joker (imo) is a regal, well dressed and hilarious psychopath. Who was once a regular dude who went through a Traumatic day and became the joker. Thats Jack Nicholson. Besides being a regular dude who went through something traumatic. He’s the joker I grew up watching in the cartoon. I don’t see heath or phoenix as that. They’re both modern 2000s , generic run of the mill dudes who chose to throw on some makeup and call themselves the joker. And if you actually studied all three , you would see how they both took pieces from Jack. Heath growling when he talked (just like Jack talking to his “number one guy”) or when Phoenix shot Robert deniro and danced after. That was literally Jack while shooting his boss. You may say they’re better but they know/knew they were following after him.
Joaquin Phoenix is Joker in name only. His movie only used the names Joker, Wayne, Arkham Asylum to bring in broader general audiences. His movie is based on Taxi Driver and King of Comedy. No inspiration from the comic source material.
It's a bit of a pity, honestly, that people lump him in with everyone else because they end up missing the message of the film; a man struggling with mental/emotional issues while living in a society that fosters those issues. General audiences wouldn't have seen that movie though. It's kinda like if Requiem for a Dream was presented as a Spider-Man movie it would've had much greater box office success.
I think the main reason for Batman not showing a lot of martial arts stuff was that Keaton literally couldn't do it in the suit. As a massive rubber monstrosity it looked great, but seriously limited mobility. (Nolan's Batman is the first live-action one to get full movement of his head, and even that took more than one movie to get right)
Keaton also injured his back in a horse riding scene that got deleted from the film, so they had to use a stuntman for most of the Batsuit scenes (apart from the close ups) while he healed up.
Came here to say this. But weirdly, I feel like the immobility of the suit added a weird, other-worldliness to Batman, his whole body having to rotate to look around or navigate corners. I know it wasn't specifically the case, but I could see Tim Burton making the suit very constricting just to make movement seem creepy and alien.
@@taejaskudva2543 The Batsuit in the 1989 film weighed between 80 and 90 pounds. Carl Newman, the ballet dancer who doubled for Keaton in many scenes, had to use all of his dance training to make the suit flow as needed. (Newman's involvement with the franchise was limited to this film, due to the sequels filming in Los Angeles instead of England.)
In *Batman Returns,* the suit got whittled down to 55 pounds.
In *Batman Forever,* they got the suit down to 35 pounds (although Val Kilmer thought it felt heavier because it was still painful and constrictive to wear).
In *Batman & Robin,* they switched over to using a latex foam for the bodysuits as opposed to using straight latex, resulting in a 14-pound costume that was easier to move in. But between the latex foam and the neoprene undersuit, the suit was still unpleasant to wear and felt heavier than it actually was. George Clooney remarked that even lifting his arms over his head was uncomfortable, and that he felt like a little kid could beat him up easily.
The main reason for no martial arts stuff is that Batman '89 was made well before that kind of combat became a thing in Hollywood movies. AFAIK Blade is the movie where that really started, a decade after Batman.
At least it gave us the epic Bat Turn.
"Vicky Vale" was created to be Batman's equivalent of Superman's "Lois Lane".
I love to see young people trying to wrap their brains around these classic movies. I was 26 when this movie came out and the whole world went Batmania.
The younger generation not having lived it and experienced it at the time need to understand that they will never understand how monumental this movie became in
1989. Even though I do love the Nolan Batman trilogy, Batman and Batman Returns will always have a special place in my heart.
“I am the terror that flaps in the night, I am the fingernail that scrapes the blackboard of your soul.” - DarkWing Duck
Best intro song for a morning cartoon EVER. LETS GET DANGEROUS!🎶🎵
Jack Palance, who plays Joker's boss, was one of the great old-Hollywood villain actors. Iconic.
@@Stogie2112 Right?! Him and Vincent Price.
@@Stogie2112 I've never put the Sutherlands in that "villain" community because most of their roles are "good" or good-ish characters. But they definitely have the look.
Palance could play heroes pretty well, too. He's terrific as the wise (if crusty) cattle driver in *City Slickers.*
He was a great ! also when Simone says she thought Jack N. was a big guy ? is just because Palance was almost 6'4 so he made Jack look smaller . He was 6 foot tall so he's not short .
@@reidmason2551 This is true. It's what made his Curley role so freaking hilarious. We were so used to him being a villain that they used that as part of his role's characteristics. So good.
It's important to remember for context that at the time this was the first onscreen depiction of Batman since the campy Adam West version. By contrast, this was dark and a novel approach. I saw this at the theaters when I was 7, so this is the definitive version of Batman for me.
It was only campy if you were older. I was 9 and it was the greatest thing on TV. I try to remember that when today's kids get excited over 'stuff'.
Keep in mind no-one in the mainstream population read comics. This film captures the aesthetics of the comics from that time almost perfectly.
Not only did Prince make songs for the movie, but he also made a song to promote the movie "Batdance". It went to number one on the charts for one week in 1989.
And it was *weird as all hell*.
Also a "Batman" album - he played "Partyman" and "Scandalous" live throughout much of the rest of his career but the rest of the songs he barely (if ever) played.
Yep. He was supposed to basically be “scoring” the movie until Burton realized pretty late in the process that the music Prince had written didnt match the vibe he wanted. So he tapped Elfman, who had never scored a movie before.
I’m pretty sure that all the diegetic music in the film (at least with words) is all music Prince wrote for the movie.
Fun fact.
The in lore reason for the bright yellow bat symbol is to draw gunfire to the most armored part of his suit.
When it was announced that Michael Keaton was going to be Batman, fans were furious because he was just in Beetlejuice and they couldn't see him as Batman. But that's what makes it so genius, Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne, I would believe it if someone said he was Batman. Keaton's Bruce Wayne would be the last person I'd suspect of being Batman.
We were also upset as it seemed Adam West had being overlooked or forgotten about. But as it turned out, Keaton did an ok job with the character.
Keaton is a better Batman than Bale. Keaton was able to change his entire persona between Wayne and Batman, giving the impression that he was dual personality.
All Christian did was just talk in that raspy voice.
So Keaton messes with Baldwin, then gets to mess with Baldwin's girl. Hollywood writes 'itself'.
When Heath Ledger was announced as the Joker fans had a similar reaction to the reaction my generation had to Keaton. Both turned out to be fantastic in their roles.
@@Deegee_1969 The only way you could have used West in this movie would have been to cast him as Commissioner Gordon. He would have been too old to play Thomas Wayne and never would have agreed to the role even if he'd been offered it (and it would have come off as an insult to older fans), and having him play an older Batman was never an option. In fact, one of the TV show's producers pitched a movie sequel to the series to WB around this time, and the pitch was so awful that WB doubled down on doing a full reboot with a new cast. (One of the proposed gags in that failed pitch? Bruce and Dick burning their crotches on the Batpoles due to not having used them in years. You can see why WB was less than impressed.)
Keep in mind, DC Comics at the time was very hateful toward the Adam West version of Batman in general, and was hellbent on pushing Frank Miller's psychotic, villain-in-hero's-clothing reboot of Batman. So overlooking and disregarding West was intentional at the time. It took decades before DC finally was forced to accept that the West version of Batman was never going to go away and made peace with it.
This film plays so differently now compared to when it came out. In 1989, superhero TV and movies had mostly been pitched at kids. The Christopher Reeve Superman wasn't a kids film really, but it was definitely kid-friendly and wholesome. Then Burton came out with this film, which had a far darker edge to it, and more complicated themes. It wasn't "adult" in the sense of an R rating, but it was pitched for adults moreso than kids. So yeah, it's definitely got its campy side and its humor... but it was a new thing in its maturity, and it was both a huge hit and had a good bit of critical acclaim. The later films in this series (culminating with Batman and Robin) leaned more and more into the campy side, which turned them into jokes in the end (as George rightly calls out). I think after that bombed, the lesson was learned that people didn't need so much of the silliness to enjoy the films, and that they could lean into the more serious tone. So now that we've had Nolan and Bale and Ledger and Phoenix, the dark and gritty side is completely ingrained for us. But this was completely surprising and different at the time.
Many great points here, but as a kid from the 80s, the one thing most of these comments seem completely oblivious to is Adam West's Batman from the TV series. I vivdly remember at the time this Batman movie came out, many parents were drawing fond comparisons to that show and Burton's many nods to its camp humor, while also embracing Burton's darker edge (as you noted).
Yeah it definitely had more of a comic book feel like the 60s show.
The more cartoony ones will always have my love, it fits the comic vibe more before everyone went all le darque edgelord
@@Liofa73 A 1960's DC superhero comic book feel, to be more correct.
Comic books were always far more than just simple plots with costumed people being silly for child audiences.
Billy Dee "Lando Calrissian" Williams took the small roll of Harvey Dent because he understood what villain he'd become. Unfortunately Burton never did more than 2 Batman movies and Williams never got the chance.
He did get some redemption by voicing Two-Face in the Lego Batman movie (which many unironically consider to be one of the best adaptions of Batman to the big screen).
i weep for the two-face we could have gotten with billy dee williams. i would have LOVED to see him as Two-Face.
They actually recently did a comic miniseries titled Batman ‘89 and it was written as Tim Burton’s unmade sequel. The story features William’s Dent becoming Two-Face. The artist for the series is really good at likenesses/caricature too, so his art of Dent looks like 90’s Billy Dee. There is a sequel coming out now and it stars a certain Dr. Crane drawn to look like he is played by Jeff Goldblum.
It’s definitely worth a read for anyone who likes comics and was bummed we never got that sequel.
Marlon Wayans was going to be robin but still got pay for it.
He also got paid a lot of money due to his contract which guaranteed he'd play Two-Face, but when Joel Schumacher (aka the man who killed Batman) wanted Tommy Lee Jones they had to buy him out of the contract.
thanks to Mcdonalds!they paid a couple of millions to endorse the 3rd movie, so they had a say in it!they didnt wanted a darker movie than the 2nd which Burton was moving towards!they didnt want the baddie to kill anyone in the movie, so WB paid back the money and got sued since they probably already had made bat toys for Kids Meal!
I really cannot explain just how popular this was when it came out. I finished an exam, caught a bus, went downtown, and waited in line for my friends to see it. They even handed out free comic books at the theatre and I just remember our minds being blown away by this!
Still one of the best cartoon-themed comic book movies ever!
Nolan's Trilogy may be "realistic" (in tone, if not in concept or plot execution), but Burton's two films are unsurpassed when it comes to sheer gothic mood and personality. This film manages to be both a fun superhero film, and take itself seriously with some pretty subtle work and acting when it comes to Bruce's trauma. And Jack Nicholson's Joker is supremely quotable. Also, the acclaimed animated series was clearly founded on Burton's vision. So it deserves a lot of props.
Supposedly, Jack Nicholson loved playing the Joker. He seemed to put a lot into the character, so the feeling that things seem forced is probably either a bit of 80s humor not quite landing for you or a purposeful character choice to complicate his personality. Joker is, after all, born out of a real person who probably didn't like losing himself to madness. It's an interesting idea, that Napier is still in there somewhere, fighting against losing himself.
I think the makeup didn't help either.
A great moment showing who he is as a person is when his girlfriend says "You look great!" and he responds "I didn't ask."
Michael Keaton surprised me, I was so used to his comedic roles, I didn't think he would make a good batman. I saw this and he killed it. He is the best Batman to date.
Anybody who says this is too cartoonish or campy, you GOTTA look at what Batman had been before this came out: the Adam West TV show, and Super-Friends. That was it! That was all the exposure the general non-comic reading public had to the character. Given what had come before, this was mind-blowing at the time.
In the comics, Batman's parents were killed by an ordinary criminal called Joe Chill. The movie decided to switch it to Joker for the "I made you? You made me!" symmetry.
Fyi, they were killed on the way home from the cinema, having just watched The Mask of Zorro. Clark Kent was also at the same cinema that night with his parents, but they watched To Kill A Mockingbird.
Don't forget to also give a react to the 1966 Batman: The Movie. It's what these four movies are in opposition to, and the Clooney one purposely leans back towards it. For thirty plus years, to the general public, this was Batman.
Clooney still apologizes for it.
In one of his interviews, Jack Nicholson said that Batman is one of his favorite films because the studio and the director had no influence on him and he just had fun and got drunk until he lost consciousness. Nicholson was drunk in all scenes of the film.
The Wayne family are one of the founding families of Gotham. The reason many people aren't aware of Bruce Wayne is because comic book-wise, the lore is that after his parents death, he travelled the world learning criminology, hunting/tracking, martial arts, etc., so people don't really know much about him or what he does because his family name was out of the public eye for many years. Also, in the comics, it was a common criminal known as Joe Chill (same as in the Nolan movies) that was responsible for the Wayne's murder.
In this version Batman is more detective. I watch another video that points out that Jack becoming Joker didn't change him. It just made the outside match the inside and be himself. Also Bruce is more of a confident person as Batman implying Batman is the real him.
Yeah, Jack was already crazy before becoming the Joker.
Here Bruce is more socially awkward
Bruce is more confident as Batman because Batman is his true (internal) identity. Bruce Wayne is the mask. That version of hin died with his parents in the alley.
Young Jack Napier was free and able to just have fun, his psychotic murderess carefree-ness, his true and enjoyed nature of chaos and anarchy
Old Jack Napier was restricted and confined, and was dead inside within that criminal business system/group, trying to work his way up, having lost his youthful "freedom" and fun "innocence"
in becoming the Joker (his acid-bath/chemical-mutation), Jack Napier was able to once again be his true self, of being free and having fun again, his true nature of chaos and anarchy
@fynnthefox9078 he was an A1 nut boy and Grissom knew it.
Vicky Vale debuted in Batman #49 in 1948. And Harvey Dent comes back in Batman Forever played by Tommy Lee Jones.
Vicky to Batman was supposed to be what Lois is to Superman.
She came back to the Comics in the 1970s as well
Billy Dee Williams only took the role of Dent because he thought he'd get to play Two-face eventually.
14:22 For a long time I didn't think that Vicki Vale existed before this movie, but apparently she existed in the comics all the way back to 1948. I believe she's always been portrayed as a journalist in one way or another and usually centered around investigating Batman. This apparently isn't even the first time she appeared on screen. The character was in a Batman adventure serial back in 1949 called "Batman and Robin."
On the original Nintendo Entertainment System(NES), there is a Batman game.
Also Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever and Batman and Robin were originally one universe.
There was supposed to be a Batman vs Superman movie and Nicholas Cage was Superman. He had long hair like in ConAir and wore both the blue suit and the black suit.
Then there was supposed to be a Batman Arkham Asylum movie with Scarecrow and all the villains capture Batman and put him on a conman led court trial. And Batman even was supposed to see Joker via the Scarecrow toxin.
The plans for the 2 movies were cancelled after Batman and Robin didn't make as much money as the studio expected.
Fun fact. Some of the surgery tools used by the guy who worked on Joker are the same props used by Steve Martin's dentist character in Little Shop of Horrors.
Nolan’s “Bat Man” was so grounded in reality and plausibility, to the point where it was more of a straight-up crime thriller than a superhero movie, and the idea of The Penguin was considered too silly to be considered as a future villain.
This Batman universe had fantastical elements to make it more dynamic and comic bookish.
Nolan definitely made a psychological crime drama more than he made a comic book movie. He also infused a whole lot of James Bond since he's always wanted to direct a Bond movie. He made Lucius Fox into Q for Batman giving him all his tech gear. Most of the action scenes are almost direct copies of Bond action and crime thrillers like Heat.
I was actually a little disappointed in the second movie because of how realistic it went. Like, "That's not Gotham City, it's just Chicago!" Whereas Batman Begins had a lot more of that stylized version of Gotham.
one of the reasons i dislike dark knight rises (aside from the fact you could kinda tell nolan only made it because they bankrolled inception) is because it's super over the top but nolan also wants it to be gritty and realistic, never quite comes together for me.
@@jessharvell1022 I had the exact same reaction. Conflicting styles that each detracted from the other. I much preferred the first two Nolan movies.
@@jessharvell1022 I think it works. I find it more satisfying than pure fantasy or pure realism.
“That’s why you don’t get your surgeons from Wish”. 😂 That was a good one George.
This was the first great bat suit. Everything before this it was basically blue spandex. By far the best car as well. This pretty much set the stage for all the movies to come.
Great reaction, and really great comments. This Batman was much closer to the comics of the 50s and 60s where everything was over the top with giant props and big fights. And the first Batman was a 1930s movie serial (like Buck Rogers) which is fun. The Batmobile was a 1936 Buik lol.
Kevin Conroy is my Batman... Mask of the Phantasm (1993), yo'.
Jack Nicholson isn’t short (5’10), Jack Palance was decently tall (6’3)
Nicholson is NOT 5'10". I don't care if that's what he's listed at. He looks maybe 5'8" in his movies at best. Watch him standing right next to Tom Cruise in A Few Good Men and how they're essentially the same height.
@@doughbafett It's well known that Tom Cruise has been known to stand on things to raise his height in movies, particularly in two shots with another character that he doesn't wanna look tiny next to.
5 “10 is still pretty short. Maybe not in America but in Europe it is.
LOL unfortunately 5'10" is still too short by many people's standards. XD
@@meu02136 average US male height is around 5'10 behind a lot of EU countries, like the Netherlands and Estonia where it's over 6ft.
I graduated high school when this came out, and the movie was EVERYWHERE. The soundtrack from Prince was just icing on the cake.
Canonically, Joker didn't kill Bruce's parents. A thug named Joe Chill did. The chemical company is named Ace Chemicals, no Ajax
...different medium, different canon.
When this movie came out, Harley Quinn wasn't created as a character yet. She first appeared in Batman the Animated Series, which came out after Batman Returns. 😅
the music from this movie has become THE batman theme, it was the theme of the animated series that came after this for years.
Yeah, Danny Elfman is really the star of the movie.
"Were those cabbages?" "Is this Avatar?" - two questions I did not expect in Batman. :D :D :D :D
Mark Hamill has the best interpretation of Joker, but he probably benefits from getting so much material to work with in tv, animated movies, & video games as opposed to just a single movie for most others.
Mark Hamill and Heath Ledger's Jokers don't exist without Nicholson's Joker.
I watched this in the cinema and audiences were so freaked out! We’d never seen anything like it.
The batman/duck tales intro is my most favorite ever! 😊
scribbles!! thank you so much! 😊
As a Batman fan, I knew Jack Nicholson could portray the Joker once I saw him in The Shining.
Totally Bat-tastic reaction!!!
This is my favorite Batman movie, favorite Batman and favorite Joker.
When this came out, me and my friends bought tickets early and when we got to the theater the line was ungodly long. We walked right past everyone, handed our tickets to the doorman and went on in, got our concessions and got our pick of seating before anybody else......there were people cussing at us and giving us the mean eyes but we didn't give a crap cause this was a huge event, a big deal if you would...... being comic book fans, we were on cloud 9 so to speak.
The reason I truly like this movie better than any other Batman movie is this one truly feels like a comic book come to life!!!! The way it transitions from scene to scene feels like the panels of a comic book.
Jack Nicholson's Joker is the chef's kiss! It's the most like the Joker from the comics at the time with even a little bit of Cesear Romero's Joker from the 1966 Adam West Batman TV show thrown in.
The Batmobile in this movie is definitely the coolest (I've still got my original toy of it from the movie)!
What else can you say about Danny Elfman's music score that hasn't been said before!
I loved Simone's "pew pew pew" when the actual church pews got knocked over.... that was comedy gold!!!!
Again awesome reaction!!!
Many blessings to you and yours!!!
thanks so much bradley!!
A thumbs up for Simone's "Pew. Pew. Pew." joke! 🤣
I did not get it
@@TorchySmurf Hint: What are the seats in a church called? 🤫
I went on my first date to this movie when I was 14
We were both so nervous that shortly after finding our seats she spilled the popcorn, and I spilled our drinks. Fortunately the theater was nice enough to replace everything. I remember the theater was the old Richmond Square Famous Players cinema beside the mall in my home town of Richmond BC.
If you wanted a Disney reference, you could have gone with "I am the terror that flaps in the night. I am the bubble gum that sticks to your hair. I am... Darkwing Duck!"
Simone’s Batman Returns story was very innocent and wholesome. I’m sure I would have had the same experience in my youth if my Grandma didn’t own the first one on VHS and all I saw was the poster for Batman Returns when my family and I went to Red Robin every weekend.😂
Now I’m stoked for George to witness Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman.
He will be appropriately SCROUSED when he sees her. Maybe Penguin too, who knows…
I laughed at that opening!
Batman Returns... is awfuI.
@@autoworld9681 Um, that's your opinion. Batman Returns was darker and I love it
@@Stogie2112 That was a very polite response to a very categorical and negative take.
No bickering to be found there.
This WAS the most serious and grounded Batman we'd gotten at that time. :)
The Dark Knight trilogy is amazing, but Keaton will always be my Batman
It's crazy how much Tim Burton was my childhood, with this and "Beetlejuice". Not only do I remember how phenomenal the trailer and ad campaign were but the moment my dad told me that we were going to see this. Batman was everywhere in 1989. You can imagine how much an 8-year-old little guy just loved every minute of this movie.
Yes, Jack Nicholson seems to have had a positive experience working on Batman.
He had a strong negotiating position when he was proposed to play the Joker in Tim Burton’s 1989 adaption of Batman1. His involvement in the Batman movie was considered crucial by much of the production team2. As a result, he was able to set forth some strict contract requirements2, including "total makeup control"3 and adjustments to the shooting schedule around his Los Angeles Lakers’ home games3. Despite an incident on set where he expressed frustration, Nicholson’s performance became even more fervid and the movie ultimately established itself as a billion-dollar franchise4. His deal was re-negotiated to create an ultimate payoff of roughly $50 million, including participations in Batman profits and merchandising4. This suggests that Nicholson was not only committed to his role but also benefited significantly from it.
Bruce Wayne and fame.... You need to remember that in the 80s there was no internet. There was no ability to google someone and find out their entire life history. Unless you read the newspaper at the time, you were unlikely to have known anything about Bruce Wayne's parents and nothing about him as a person at all if he didn't advertise himself or get himself in the papers alot. The whole "Bruce Wayne is a multi-billionaire and could buy half the city" is a reasonably new thing and the story works better if he is "just" a multi-millionaire. Once you start get billions then he could do far more to help the city through direct funding and support than running around beating up badguys where as a millionaire detective with gadgets it makes sense that he does what he does. Great reaction, can't wait to see Batman Returns here!
Yeah, in retrospect making Bruce Wayne into a guy who's richer than god (if you'll pardon the expression) was a really bad move. It's no wonder you get so many people these days trying to argue that he's more villainous for his inaction as a philanthropist when modern tellings of the Batman story seem to do everything they can to make him less sympathetic by making him richer and richer. It's even crazier because of just how unnecessary it is--when being a millionaire is more than enough to make him into an eccentric high-tech detective, there's really no need to make him a Bezos-level billionaire magnate. Personally, I blame this problem primarily on DC's insistence on having Batman be in the same universe as all their other heroes--when you have almost literal gods among men, the only way a guy like Batman can compete is if he has enough wealth to be able to artificially recreate similar capabilities. As good as Justice League stories can be, I personally think that the JLA was probably the biggest misstep they could have made with regard to how the writers over the years have handled Batman as a character.
“I thought Jack Nicholson was a big guy” - it’s easy to look small next to Jack Palance. He was 6-4, and a Western movie legend, most famously as the villain in the movie “Shane.” (Well, his most famous role now is probably “City Slickers,” for which he won an Oscar, but in terms of classic Westerns.)
Burton said at the time that he had to work to find an actor who could convincingly intimidate Jack Nicholson. Height was a factor, but Palance also had tremendous presence.
@@anthonyleecollins9319fun fact: Jack Nicholson wasn’t interested in playing the Joker at first, so they teased Robin Williams with the role… and Williams said yes. So they told Nicholson that Robin Williams was gonna take the role if he didn’t do Nicholson changed his mind. So they basically used Robin Williams as bait which is pretty f*cked up
I remember getting the VHS for this for my birthday from my dad, I watched it soo much that it wore out the tape in the cassette. I would run around my living room with a batman mask and cape a act out the scenes with my dad. LOOOOVE THIS MOVIE and best Joker tied with Dark Knight.
We got the VHS for Christmas when it first came out, I still remember that Christmas, 35-odd years later. We watched this basically on repeat
One thing I always got a laugh about with the VHS was the Diet Coke advertisement before the movie actually began. Michael Gough must have been paid well for that, especially with the long sigh of enjoyment after taking a sip at the end.
I always wanted to be the Joker for Halloween. He stole the show in this movie.
The Waynes being a big famous family is new canon. In the original Batman origin, you never know who the killer of his parents was.
Keep in mind that in terms of lore, there's been like 30 years of Batman stories since this film came out. They went with more of the classic, very early Batman. Early on, there was not much said about Bruce's family or Gotham. That was not a prominent part of stories. In fact, Arkham Asylum didn't get invented till '74. As for Batman, my understanding is that he's supposed to be in his 20s when he dons the cape, but Michael Keaton - as is often the case with actors - is about 10-15 years older than he should be to be playing the role. They always want a leading man with gravitas, which virtually always results in hiring an older actor, like Maguire's Spider-Man, who once again was about 15 years older than the character he was portraying. Vicki Vale's first appearance was in 1948. The Jack Napier identity for Joker was invented for this movie, but the vat of chemicals origin is classic lore.
Also, Batman's abilities and tech have been greatly leveled up in the last few decades. For the first few decades, he used to wear a cloth suit that was getting ripped all the time. Now he's like Iron Man, and he doesn't even bother to dodge bullets. Originally, he didn't really have the ability to glide, and mainly was just running around at street level in his cape and sometimes swinging from a batline that was thrown, not a powered grappling hook. He did have the full set of vehicles early on, and he did have the bat cave. His early martial arts training was along the lines of some boxing and judo. Early on, your average person could get the drop on him and knock him out.
Also unlike what you would see today, it was easier to have your life under warps than exposed to everyone.
Nowadays its impossible for a celibrity or billionaire to wipe his ass, without twitter and the media writting about it 5 mins later.
But this is still a movie that takes places in the 80's, so with the correct ways and "bribes" it would have been easier as a Billionaire to keep things under wraps and people would've forgotten about it, specially if it happened in the late 60's.
Plus while being important in later Lore like Nolan's trilogy, the Waynes, despite their wealth, were Less Public figures.
Mark Hamill is my Joker... Mask of the Phantasm (1993), yo'.
That small effect of Joker wiping his forehead to show the white underneath was an incredibly difficult effect to pull off. If you’re interested definitely check out some of the behind the scenes features.
Jack is also allergic to spirit gum, so the Joker prosthetics would be more difficult to work with.
When this film came out in 1989, the only other superhero films around were the Christopher Reeve Superman films, which were made in 1978, 1980, 1983, and 1987. Batman was much darker and felt very serious and gritty in comparison.
9:00: The mentioning of "Corto Maltese" surprises me every time, as I always think about the comic book character of Hugo Pratt.😅
22:24 To me, this is the Batmobile....not the lawmower Nolan uses....Nolan's looks like something Red Green and Tim Allen made for Batman.
Vicky Vale does appear in the comics as a side character and occasionally love interest for Bruce. However her most prominent appearances beyond this film were arguably in the classic Fox Batman the Animated Series from the 90’s. In that show she was actually a tv news reporter and basically appeared any time Bruce or other characters were watching the news on the show.
Summer Gleason is the reporter in TAS.
Yeah, I was just about to comment on this, she's been around since the 40's apparently, and has her own Wikipedia page. Also known as Victoria Vale, and seems to have been mostly associated initially with investigating the stories around Batman or the links between Wayne and Batman.
The hype around this movie was insane. So much money went into promoting it. TV ads, trailers, posters everywhere. The music by Prince was a big part of making it well know before it hit theathers. Nicholson was huge at this time, that also helped. And the movie didn't let us down. An amazing movie in the theaters with lots of fans looking forward to a live action Batman! :) Thanks for your content from Denmark.
So regarding George's multiple questions about "lore" - ever since this movie, Batman, which could be considered the first real "modern" superhero movie (yes, I know there have been others), the comics are pretty much an inspiration and not word-for-word requirements. A lot of liberties are taken and each filmmaker sort of gets to use their own interpretation. The comics, in multiple series focusing on different topics, have gone on for almost a century, so there have been a LOT of different Batman versions. I typically watch superhero movies with an open mind and just enjoy the ride.
Same here.
The people obsessed with lore only handicap themselves from having a good time. Their slavish devotion to "muh comic books" is a detriment to only their own.
Yup. I keep wanting to say to George: there are many canons. Let go and just enjoy.
Superman The Movie is the first. Without a blockbuster movie, comicbooks movies would have faded away.
@@ChrisWake For sure. I always look at comic book movies like DC elseworlds book, where it will take a basic concept and go somewhere else with it.
Fun fact: the surgical props used in joker's facial reconstruction are the same props from the dentist in little shop of horrors
Bob kane who created batman personally viuched for castingnjack Nicholson as the joker
Michael ketonn hated the batsuit because it set off his claustrophobia, but bith he and burton decided it would help his performance (which isnwhy he looks so uncomfortable)
The last act in the cathedral was tacked kn last minuet by producer jon peters behind burtons back.
The film was filmed in london with many ofbthe extras actually being british.
Sean young (rachel from bladerunner) was originally cast as vickie vale but was injured in a horseriding accident just before filming so had to drop out
The film was released on the 50th anniversary of the day that the first comic depliction of batman was released.
The axis chemical plant was the same disused powerstation used to film aliens, and even still had then hive set inside
During filming kim basinger split from her husband and hooked up with producer jon peters resulting in jack Nicholson calling her out for showing upmlate because she was "f#*king the producer"
When vicki and knox are exploring the mannor and looking at the armour the jokes were all adlibed
The famous "I'm batman" line was adlibbed by keton. In the script he says "I'm the knight"
Keton being cast as batman was on purpose because he looked the least likely to be batman
Originally batman's parents were killed by a random thug, when the creator saw the film he kicked himself for not thinking of it himself calling it genius. For a while it was batman lore among other people over the years, but officially it was joe chill
Simones face when she responded with "yeah" at the end was amazing!
Anton Furst was the production designer and really leaned in on the Art Deco feel of this movie, which then inspired the Batman Animated series that came out after. This movie was also one of the first successful dives into the tentpole comic movies since Superman in 1978 (and some other failed attempts in between) and the only frame of reference when this came out was the campy 1960's Batman tv show. Tim Burton was referencing that with his own style in this movie. Harley Quinn and other more popular Batman characters don't really show up until after the animated series and everything really took off. What's funny was that this movie was considered "dark" in its interpretation of the Joker and Batman as characters (again, because the only reference was the 1960s show...which you guys should watch at least one episode of just to say you have). I worked with David Goyer on a film back in 2007...he had written Batman Begins and wrote the story for The Dark Knight. He knows comic lore like no one else I've met so he was the one who dug up the obscure ninja training and all that. He said that they also referenced Malcom McDowell's character from A Clockwork Orange for Heath Ledger's Joker...rather than a vat of acid. Nolan's version is actually closer to the original comics (started in the depression). Anyway, sorry for the RUclips comment info dump. Thought you might like it :).
I'd say that the movie is a Mix of Art-Deco and Neo-Gothic, while the animated series went all in with the Art Deco to the point where you never knew if it took place in the 90's or the 50's to be honest.
@@Mugthraka True. It also gave the show its own style and tone. It’s fun watching how this franchise evolved (for good and bad).
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Batman was far more empathetic in TAS.
This was halfway between silly, campy 60's Batman and serious, gritty 21st century Batman in every sense.
The big difference is that this still feels like a comic book movie. Whereas the Nolan movies onwards decided to take a fantastical character like Batman, and attempted to make him fit into the real world (which doesn't work, in my opinion). It's virtually impossible to imagine superpowered Batman villains like Clayface and Mr. Freeze in his version of Gotham.
@@Rocket1377I've always felt that as well. He's a comic book character and this feels like a super hero movie off the pages of a comic book. The Nolan movies didnt do anything for me. Too much dialogue and boring at times and lacked the feel of theatrics and a good score.
I've seen every live adaptation of Catwoman and I can't deny the 60's Batman gave us Julie Newmar and was never topped (no pun intended).
@@Rocket1377 It's always deemed impossible until someone comes along and does it.
For the ones who are not in the business of creating, they only believe in what was already done because they can't imagine something besides what they've already seen.
When Bruce Wayne Says 'come on let's get nuts' that line kills me every time
He's really letting his Beetlejuice out in that scene.
So, how much German Expressionism do you want in your sets and costumes?
Tim Burton: Yes
12:46 "Could you pass the salt?"
"Sure. Go long."
To be fair to Simone I did not watch Batman 89 until after Batman Returns when I was a kid.
To answer George's question of favourite Batman/Joker. Kevin Conroy is Batman and Mark Hamill is Joker.
I grew up with the animated series, so Mark Hamill is always the one for me, but I do appreciate Cesar Romero's, Heath Ledger's, and Jack Nicholson's Jokers too. They all have their own twists on the character, which is always good.
Batman is a comic book hero. It is supossed to be unrealistic and with unexpected gadgits. What doesn't make sense is trying to make him into a "serious" character, like the later movies do. Enjoy it, it is a fun trip! You don't go to roller coaster ride and complain that it can't take you to your job.😊😊😊😊
OMG, I was looking away when the commercial started and I totally thought that was an ad from RUclips. It took a second for me to go "wait, that sorta sounds like...". 😂 Killer job. Now I'm already smiling before the movie starts
6:26 Harley Quinn actually didn't exist yet at this point in time! She was not introduced until an episode the animated series a few years after this film
Darkwing Duck would be a better opening reference.
I think George is overlooking who directed this movie, there should be an expected tone for any Burton movie
The Joker that I grew up with was Cesar Romero from the 1966 Batman television series and movie starring Adam West as Batman and Burt Ward as Robin. Certainly it was modeled as a campy, comic-book styled show rather than the darker incarnations that other movies took, but regardless, Romero's Joker was a very stylized choice worth checking out.
I still cringe during the fight scene between Bruce Lee's Kato and Robin but hey - back then at 9 years old it was all good.
@@terrylandess6072 For me, the whole series rides on the nostalgia factor and childhood memories based around the series, characters and costumes. Same is true for a number of other series from that era. Star Trek TOS, Tom Baker era Dr. Who, the original run from The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone, and especially the original series of 5 Planet of the Apes from the late '60s / early '70s (including the television series). A re-watch of Logan's Run (the movie) as well as the television series similarly comes with certain allowances for writing that didn't always age well and dated effects.)
Yes, all the villains were so over the top they were great.
No doubt Carey took a lot from the 60's Riddler, but DeVito really made the Penguin his own IMHO
@@Cheepchipsable I enjoyed both Frank Gorshin and Jim Carrey in the role and certainly noted the similarities. I thought Danny DeVito's Penguin was well-acted and it fit the Tim Burton aesthetic, so it was a good choice, but I prefer the ritzy, tuxedo-clad Burgess Meredith's stylish portrayal because DeVito's Penguin was pretty filthy, smelly and disgustingly gross.
@@tofersiefken Outer Limits had quality writing and acting.
Jack Nicholson's Joker is definitely a lot goofier than most modern interpretations, but keep in mind that the only Joker mainstream audiences were exposed to at the time was the Cesar Romero version from the Adam West Batman show, so in comparison, he's leagues darker.
Also, I kind of like weird and off-putting Joker; Idk it has its own charms.
What are you talking about? you have it backwards… Nicholson’s Joker was the closest to the modern Joker than any other portrayal of him.
All other performances of the Joker haven’t been traditional
@@nsasupporter7557 Exactly, Jack Nicholson is literally how Joker acts in almost every comic
Heath Ledger's was great but that is not Joker from the comics. Joker is supposed to be funny and creepy.
@@JurassicReptile yeah, but Ledger was just playing the Joker the way Chris Nolan was talking him to… he wasn’t supposed to be the traditional Joker
@@nsasupporter7557 Both Nolan and Ledger stated multiple times in interviews at the time that they poured over the comics to make sure Ledger's portrayal was as accurate to the source material as possible. That's why I personally find the Dark Knight version of the character a bit disappointing. Ledger's portrayal is great, but it's not accurate to the comic books as a whole, only to a few specific stories in particular, which is not what was promised by Nolan.
@@tehdipstick Ledger played the Joker perfectly as that version of Batman, if you catch my drift. Nolan’s movies weren’t comic book movies… they were serious crime dramas and Ledger’s Joker matched that style
The Waynes being founders of the city didn't come about until much later in the comics. Also Jack Napier being the murdered of that Waynes was only invented for this movie.
Harley Quinn was invented for the Batman Animated Series which debuted after this film in 1992. She was such a hit that she became part of the comic book canon and lore. So that means when Batman started in 1939 there were 53 years of Batman history and comic book lore WITHOUT Harley Quinn. That's how big of an impact she made. And Vicky Vale was Batman's love interest for years before the movie. The later movies just kind of left her behind and we've never heard of her again.
Also, this is the best bat suit ever. How dare you diss it. :P