Please share if you enjoyed! And remember, you can watch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform: Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jung-chang-living-through-cultural-revolution-and/id1516093381?i=1000636931465 Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/4XJRFIvfRetdzq3pffmMUL?si=FGzMVzV1QfSbZl522jD5_g
Quote-" Parents who went through suffering tend NOT to tell their children of what went on in the past...". I grew up not knowing anything about my parents' past in China, other than some offhand comments here n there. Must be " no knowledge is no danger". I'm learning now.. from the internet! Thank you. My family came from a whole line of teachers!
She came to my university years ago. Word on the street was, she was a massive diva and drove the students looking after her insane. Loved her book, tho. Dwarkesh: Try to get Chris Patten on your show. He's in his late 70s but still very sharp. He was the last governor of Hong Kong and has no end of juicy stories about the Chinese govt. I know this because I know the son of one of his pals👍 EDIT: I forgot to say how much I enjoyed your Dom Cummings interview. Great content, great questions👏
@@bobbiemiles-foremaniii8747 I was told she had a very high opinion of herself. Unusual, as most mainlanders in the West are polite and friendly. This was mid-90s.
This was one of the most amazing and heartbreaking conversations I've witnessed. I can't even imagine the hardship that Jung Chang went through, thank you for this window into the horrible reality so that we may remember it.
Oh boy. These stories give you shivers, especially when it is that person’s own experience, not just research. I just checked the latest big poll in Russia about Stalin (2019) and 17% believed he was a very positive and 52% believed he was a somewhat positive figure in history. Current approval rating of Putin is even higher, around 85%. Adam Smith was right: people are just enamored by those in power however flawed they are. Jung Chang confirmed the same: for 8 years she could not even think that the problem could have been Mao himself. Bryan Caplan’s advice is indispensable: create your own bubble (of people and work that you like) and don’t t let others prick it. You’re part of my bubble Dwarkesh, thank you and keep it up!
During the Second World War, the US supplied the USSR with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of trucks, jeeps, arms along with ammo, and most importantly food for their entire population and for the Red Army. Stalin ordered that every single crate that had “Made in America” on it be covered up and a “Made in the USSR” equivalent to be added. To this day the majority of the Russian population have not a single clue this happend. This is a fact
Great guest, great interview. Read her books: Wild Swans for the autobiographical history of the 20th century in China _Mao: The Untold Story_ a biography and forensic dismantling of Mao and Maoism They should both be on all Western high-school and university curriculums. I also enjoyed her biographies of Cixi (dowager Empress in late 19th century) and the Soong sisters, one of whom was married to Chiang Kai-shek (Nationalist leader). If you enjoy _Wild Swans_ (you will) I also recommend _The Great Flowing River_ by Chi Pang-Yuan. If you enjoy _Mao_ (you will) and want to go deeper, look at the works of Frank Dikötter.
Relatives had similar experience with the Soviet Union as well - torture, exile in camps and cultural genocide. There are similarities between totalitarian regimes. However the Asian ones sound worse.
Hi, my family was enslaved for over 200 years in the Caribbean. Driven by Capitalistic endeavors, our culture, language, history, children and our entire tradition was horrendously viciously opposed during this time. This was happening up until 2 generations or so before Mao's time. Now I am held in debt to the ancestors of those who once held us as intergenerational livestock. Incurring this financial debt is even enforced by law. I have no illusions about the skeletons in the closet regarding communism, but I'll be damned if I forget the demonic bowels of Capitalism.
BOTH [Wild Swans] and [Mao's Biography] are AMAZINGLY good !!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💖💖😊😊 [Empress Dowager] might be a bit controversial, but I think it's still pretty great.
This is an amazing video. HOWEVER! It does not appear under Videos--I can't find it anywhere, which might explain the low view count. I saw it because it came up as a recommendation. Also, I really do recommend you fix your video feed. The feed has both shorts and full episodes, which is very confusing and makes it hard to find the full episode. Finally, you want to get someone to fix your graphics because they don't look good. And, again, they are confusing. You want the name of the person and a brief title not some phrase in huge capitals. I really thought it was a second rate, click bait type of podcast, trying to lure people with wild claims (50 m dead!!!) If I did not know her, I would not have watched. I also recommend more sophisticated graphic design, especially regarding color; crass color is a little low brow.
Actually, now I see it in the video list. But 2 times before I did, and it was not there. Point stands. Mixing shorts with full length videos clutters your feed. It's ok to just have a few, especially when the speakers are major figures. It's becoming too much with the interminable podcasts, it's ok not to have an endless list.
I still Believe being a Cultureless society is As Bad as Being a Extremist society ,It’s A Slow Poision and For What ,Economicsl growth , This Western Concept of Wiping out culture to Grow as A Exonomicsl Society is Causing Societies to Collapse and Shrink , The First examples are Japan and Korea now followed by China ,This Trend Seems to be Taken Over , So We have Bipolar world ,One Side is Extreme and Cultural e.g Middle East ,,and other Side is West and East Asia becoming totally Without culture…..
Control is everything in 🇨🇳 I was in China when people were wearing Green and Blue uniforms in the country - I was astonished at the poverty and life was hard. There was no such thing as privacy as it was dangerous and denouncing ( I can’t recall the local word) felt a constant menace. Highly nationalistic people and brought up to think Chinese are a superior race.
Let's get some perspective here. The critics of Mao's China were correct, especially that they didn't have the industrial materials or knowledge to build the socialist China and used ruthless repression to quiet critics or opposition. But the critics of Mao's opposition were also correct that Liu Shao Qui and his supporters wanted to develop capitalism first, opening the Chinese to the world's imperialist economies and their imperialist aspirations for China. Deng Shiao Ping (sorry about the spelling) in the 80's did exactly that. The "Capitalist Roaders" took over after Mao's death, forged ahead, and at the expense of many millions of workers and peasants built a new, modern capitalist China, under a repressive in-name-only Socialist regime. It seems to me to be true, but so much more complicated overall.
But funnily enough almost all of Western society has managed, at least during the same time periods, without the excesses, so that would suggest responsible capitalism would have been just fine in China.
At the same time.. In regards to Dwarkeshs comment... Why is it "obvious" that Mao didn't 'understand' economics? The economy at the time ind China.... Was what? Opium? The west using them for geographical purposes? A country that was composed of tribes and disrespected?. I think Mao knew what his economics were. Even though communism was stupid
What happened to the end of the podcast? It just suddenly ends whilst she was answering your last statement (about how some people tried to compare the BLM protests to the cultural revolution, like WTF is that hyberbolic nonsense?!?)
@@Foxhound94 OK Trumpster. Let's compare knocking over a liquor store to overrunning the Capitol at the behest of your Savior. Vance had it right, Trump is the American Hitler.
This is an extreme right wing view of China's history. Gregor Benton and Lin Chun wrote a great academic paper in response to her books. I wonder if Dwarkesh would be willing to see the other side of this argument? Perhaps from someone like Dr. Roland Boer, Dr. Kenneth Hammond, or Dr. Richard Wolff.
Yeah, she is pretty right wing. Her hagiography of empress Cixi (which I did enjoy) made her sound like a omniscient ubermensch who never did anything wrong.
How is describing the historical starvation death of millions, destruction of educational & cultural institutions/artefacts, denouncing/brainwashing of people, etc a "right wing" view? Are you claiming it didn't happen?
I heard a similar story from someone who was on the faculty at Beijing University during the Cultural Revolution. He wasn't right or left wing relating his experience.
As a student who went to college around 1973 during the poorest time in China, Jung Chang was lucky. Here, I don’t want to comment on whether there is any story behind her lucky background. However, at the beginning of the interview, she satirized the ridiculousness of English education back then. Her greetings were: "Where are you going?" "Have you eaten?" I doubted her honesty, so I looked up some of her background. The university below is also another university in Chengdu, Sichuan Province. In terms of rankings in China, it is not as good as the Sichuan University where she studied. The following is the teaching staff. The well-known professors of the Department of Foreign Languages at Southwest Normal University include Zhao Weifan, who graduated from the National Central University, and is an English professor and director of the Department of Foreign Languages at the National Women's Normal University; Xiong Zhenglun, who graduated from Tsinghua School, has a master's degree from the University of Minnesota, is an English professor at Jiaotong University and Shanghai Law School, and is an English professor at Chongqing University. Director of the Foreign Languages Department, who was labeled as a rightist in 1957; Li Junyue, graduated from Central University and lecturer in the Foreign Languages Department of Women's Normal College. In the mid-1950s, some outstanding talents were transferred from middle schools and other institutions to serve as lecturers and teachers in the Department of Foreign Languages, such as Liu Chiliang and Huaqiao, who graduated from Yenching University and Princeton University in the United States, and Liu Meiyi, who graduated from Seattle University in the United States and Wuhan University, and was admitted to the Central University as a graduate student. Sun Fali, a graduate of Sichuan University, and Jiang Jiajun, a graduate of Sichuan University. Finally, I can tell that her statement is a lie. I don't understand. Is she just trying to be humorous and sarcastic by belittling her teachers? Sorry, I have always liked Dwarkesh Patel's show. I can only watch this episode for 10 minutes. I don't believe that a liar will be honest about other things.
I mean that 50+ million figure should already tell you she is a liar. It's just ridiculous, and aligns exactly with CIA/State Dept anti-China talking points. I dislike CCP, but that doesn't mean we should be eating up everything their adversary says about them, and pretend we are the good guys here.
Many of these atrocities mentioned by her are documented by the CCP themselves in documentaries made during those atrocities. For instance Mao's foolishness of killing sparrows which led to a famine in China is well documented by CCP. The man was a village idiot. This lady is being far too kind and diplomatic. Tiananmen Square Massacre was filmed. Your comment is meant to obfuscate.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
You always find super interesting guests to interview! Good work
Please share if you enjoyed!
And remember, you can watch on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform:
Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jung-chang-living-through-cultural-revolution-and/id1516093381?i=1000636931465
Spotify: open.spotify.com/episode/4XJRFIvfRetdzq3pffmMUL?si=FGzMVzV1QfSbZl522jD5_g
Why would you think that Xiping 's daughter is his successor?
What a wonderful, classy lady ! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💖💖
That's exactly what she is and who she is！
As someone who read Wild Swans recently for a class in Chinese history this is REMARKABLE!
Quote-" Parents who went through suffering tend NOT to tell their children of what went on in the past...". I grew up not knowing anything about my parents' past in China, other than some offhand comments here n there. Must be " no knowledge is no danger". I'm learning now.. from the internet! Thank you. My family came from a whole line of teachers!
Great timing on the Kissinger interview. Looking forward to that.
She came to my university years ago. Word on the street was, she was a massive diva and drove the students looking after her insane. Loved her book, tho.
Dwarkesh: Try to get Chris Patten on your show. He's in his late 70s but still very sharp. He was the last governor of Hong Kong and has no end of juicy stories about the Chinese govt. I know this because I know the son of one of his pals👍
EDIT: I forgot to say how much I enjoyed your Dom Cummings interview. Great content, great questions👏
I mean check out the hair and get up. Looks like she takes many hours to get ready
@@bobbiemiles-foremaniii8747 I was told she had a very high opinion of herself. Unusual, as most mainlanders in the West are polite and friendly. This was mid-90s.
such underrated channel. appreciate your work
these podcasts are super interesting . subbed !
I was brought to tears by this person's account of their experience under communist rule. How monstrous can people be?
This was one of the most amazing and heartbreaking conversations I've witnessed. I can't even imagine the hardship that Jung Chang went through, thank you for this window into the horrible reality so that we may remember it.
Wait till you find out what happens everyday under capitalist regimes!
I read her book while visiting China in 2006. Amazing woman. A must read.
Oh boy. These stories give you shivers, especially when it is that person’s own experience, not just research. I just checked the latest big poll in Russia about Stalin (2019) and 17% believed he was a very positive and 52% believed he was a somewhat positive figure in history. Current approval rating of Putin is even higher, around 85%. Adam Smith was right: people are just enamored by those in power however flawed they are. Jung Chang confirmed the same: for 8 years she could not even think that the problem could have been Mao himself. Bryan Caplan’s advice is indispensable: create your own bubble (of people and work that you like) and don’t t let others prick it. You’re part of my bubble Dwarkesh, thank you and keep it up!
During the Second World War, the US supplied the USSR with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of trucks, jeeps, arms along with ammo, and most importantly food for their entire population and for the Red Army. Stalin ordered that every single crate that had “Made in America” on it be covered up and a “Made in the USSR” equivalent to be added. To this day the majority of the Russian population have not a single clue this happend. This is a fact
Great guest, great interview. Read her books:
Wild Swans for the autobiographical history of the 20th century in China
_Mao: The Untold Story_ a biography and forensic dismantling of Mao and Maoism
They should both be on all Western high-school and university curriculums.
I also enjoyed her biographies of Cixi (dowager Empress in late 19th century)
and the Soong sisters, one of whom was married to Chiang Kai-shek (Nationalist leader).
If you enjoy _Wild Swans_ (you will) I also recommend _The Great Flowing River_ by Chi Pang-Yuan.
If you enjoy _Mao_ (you will) and want to go deeper, look at the works of Frank Dikötter.
This is now my second favorite video you put out. First goes to Sally Paine. I wish her books were on Audible.
Me too. Meet Sally Paine please!!!
Relatives had similar experience with the Soviet Union as well - torture, exile in camps and cultural genocide. There are similarities between totalitarian regimes. However the Asian ones sound worse.
Hi, my family was enslaved for over 200 years in the Caribbean. Driven by Capitalistic endeavors, our culture, language, history, children and our entire tradition was horrendously viciously opposed during this time. This was happening up until 2 generations or so before Mao's time.
Now I am held in debt to the ancestors of those who once held us as intergenerational livestock. Incurring this financial debt is even enforced by law.
I have no illusions about the skeletons in the closet regarding communism, but I'll be damned if I forget the demonic bowels of Capitalism.
Absolutely riveting. I have read Wild Swans and I'll certainly read her Mao biography.
Great stuff as always
Thank you for this interview!
Fantastic book and person
Her Mao book is a modern classic.
BOTH [Wild Swans] and [Mao's Biography] are AMAZINGLY good !!!!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💖💖😊😊
[Empress Dowager] might be a bit controversial, but I think it's still pretty great.
Incredible story
Omg the cheery intro music during the story of he parents' torture is too much
I wouldn’t call it cheery, it’s pretty dramatic in fact, just in the higher register
Why do you have constant cuts
insightful, amazing story
Thanks to all 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
You need to really make this more full time, make more cut videos that are 20 to 30 min, and you would be golden.... love these interviews.
This is an amazing video. HOWEVER! It does not appear under Videos--I can't find it anywhere, which might explain the low view count. I saw it because it came up as a recommendation. Also, I really do recommend you fix your video feed. The feed has both shorts and full episodes, which is very confusing and makes it hard to find the full episode. Finally, you want to get someone to fix your graphics because they don't look good. And, again, they are confusing. You want the name of the person and a brief title not some phrase in huge capitals. I really thought it was a second rate, click bait type of podcast, trying to lure people with wild claims (50 m dead!!!) If I did not know her, I would not have watched. I also recommend more sophisticated graphic design, especially regarding color; crass color is a little low brow.
Actually, now I see it in the video list. But 2 times before I did, and it was not there. Point stands. Mixing shorts with full length videos clutters your feed. It's ok to just have a few, especially when the speakers are major figures. It's becoming too much with the interminable podcasts, it's ok not to have an endless list.
you have to do Stephen Kotkin
Well... I prefer them speaking first. 😂
I still Believe being a Cultureless society is As Bad as Being a Extremist society ,It’s A Slow Poision and For What ,Economicsl growth , This Western Concept of Wiping out culture to Grow as A Exonomicsl Society is Causing Societies to Collapse and Shrink , The First examples are Japan and Korea now followed by China ,This Trend Seems to be Taken Over , So We have Bipolar world ,One Side is Extreme and Cultural e.g Middle East ,,and other Side is West and East Asia becoming totally Without culture…..
Democracy is generally a much better system than authoritarianism.
Control is everything in 🇨🇳 I was in China when people were wearing Green and Blue uniforms in the country - I was astonished at the poverty and life was hard. There was no such thing as privacy as it was dangerous and denouncing ( I can’t recall the local word) felt a constant menace. Highly nationalistic people and brought up to think Chinese are a superior race.
Wow
Let's get some perspective here. The critics of Mao's China were correct, especially that they didn't have the industrial materials or knowledge to build the socialist China and used ruthless repression to quiet critics or opposition. But the critics of Mao's opposition were also correct that Liu Shao Qui and his supporters wanted to develop capitalism first, opening the Chinese to the world's imperialist economies and their imperialist aspirations for China. Deng Shiao Ping (sorry about the spelling) in the 80's did exactly that. The "Capitalist Roaders" took over after Mao's death, forged ahead, and at the expense of many millions of workers and peasants built a new, modern capitalist China, under a repressive in-name-only Socialist regime. It seems to me to be true, but so much more complicated overall.
But funnily enough almost all of Western society has managed, at least during the same time periods, without the excesses, so that would suggest responsible capitalism would have been just fine in China.
1:07:05 - Mao wanted to dominate the world... o_O
Sure you're not getting the US and China confused honey?
Yet.
At the same time.. In regards to Dwarkeshs comment... Why is it "obvious" that Mao didn't 'understand' economics?
The economy at the time ind China.... Was what? Opium?
The west using them for geographical purposes?
A country that was composed of tribes and disrespected?.
I think Mao knew what his economics were.
Even though communism was stupid
Long live Mao Zedong 🙏
三哥三姐一家亲
What happened to the end of the podcast?
It just suddenly ends whilst she was answering your last statement (about how some people tried to compare the BLM protests to the cultural revolution, like WTF is that hyberbolic nonsense?!?)
Blm riots, not protests..
@@Foxhound94 OK Trumpster. Let's compare knocking over a liquor store to overrunning the Capitol at the behest of your Savior. Vance had it right, Trump is the American Hitler.
This is an extreme right wing view of China's history. Gregor Benton and Lin Chun wrote a great academic paper in response to her books.
I wonder if Dwarkesh would be willing to see the other side of this argument? Perhaps from someone like Dr. Roland Boer, Dr. Kenneth Hammond, or Dr. Richard Wolff.
Yeah, she is pretty right wing. Her hagiography of empress Cixi (which I did enjoy) made her sound like a omniscient ubermensch who never did anything wrong.
How is describing the historical starvation death of millions, destruction of educational & cultural institutions/artefacts, denouncing/brainwashing of people, etc a "right wing" view?
Are you claiming it didn't happen?
@@egalanosThey’re part of the left wing borg that has been destroying the world since 1917.
I heard a similar story from someone who was on the faculty at Beijing University during the Cultural Revolution. He wasn't right or left wing relating his experience.
Mao is bad ... but it did help china by obliterating its traditional class society
作为一个在中国最贫穷的时间，1973年左右上大学的学生，张戎（Jung Chang）是幸运的。在这里，我不想去评价她的幸运背景是否有什么故事。但是，在采访的开头，她就讽刺了当年的英语教育的可笑，问候语是：“你要去哪里？”“吃了吗？”。我很怀疑她的诚实，于是，我查询了当年的一些背景。下面这所大学，也是四川省成都市的另一所大学，从中国的排名上，不如她所就读的四川大学。以下是师资力量。
西南师范学院，外语系的知名教授有赵维藩，国立中央大学毕业，国立女子师范学院外语系英语教授，主任；熊正伦，清华学校毕业，美国明尼苏达大学硕士，交通大学、上海法学院英语教授，重庆大学外语系主任，1957年被打成右派；李峻岳，中央大学毕业，女子师范学院外语系讲师。
50年代中期一些优秀人才从中学等单位调到外语系担任讲师、教员，如毕业于燕京大学、美国普林斯顿大学的刘炽亮、华侨，美国西雅图大学毕业的刘美仪、武汉大学毕业，考上中央大学研究生的孙法理、四川大学毕业的江家骏等。
最后，我可以知道，她的说法是谎言，我不明白，她这样的贬低她的老师们，仅仅是想幽默和讽刺吗？
很抱歉，我一直非常喜欢Dwarkesh Patel的节目，这一期节目，我只能看10分钟，我不相信一个说谎的人，对于其它事情上，会是诚实的。
shes very much Rightist. Read her other books. Mao was a murderous opportunist
and these are truly stupid ads! medical weightloss, scientific dog food! How can you accept such rubbish?
As a student who went to college around 1973 during the poorest time in China, Jung Chang was lucky. Here, I don’t want to comment on whether there is any story behind her lucky background. However, at the beginning of the interview, she satirized the ridiculousness of English education back then. Her greetings were: "Where are you going?" "Have you eaten?" I doubted her honesty, so I looked up some of her background. The university below is also another university in Chengdu, Sichuan Province. In terms of rankings in China, it is not as good as the Sichuan University where she studied. The following is the teaching staff.
The well-known professors of the Department of Foreign Languages at Southwest Normal University include Zhao Weifan, who graduated from the National Central University, and is an English professor and director of the Department of Foreign Languages at the National Women's Normal University; Xiong Zhenglun, who graduated from Tsinghua School, has a master's degree from the University of Minnesota, is an English professor at Jiaotong University and Shanghai Law School, and is an English professor at Chongqing University. Director of the Foreign Languages Department, who was labeled as a rightist in 1957; Li Junyue, graduated from Central University and lecturer in the Foreign Languages Department of Women's Normal College.
In the mid-1950s, some outstanding talents were transferred from middle schools and other institutions to serve as lecturers and teachers in the Department of Foreign Languages, such as Liu Chiliang and Huaqiao, who graduated from Yenching University and Princeton University in the United States, and Liu Meiyi, who graduated from Seattle University in the United States and Wuhan University, and was admitted to the Central University as a graduate student. Sun Fali, a graduate of Sichuan University, and Jiang Jiajun, a graduate of Sichuan University.
Finally, I can tell that her statement is a lie. I don't understand. Is she just trying to be humorous and sarcastic by belittling her teachers?
Sorry, I have always liked Dwarkesh Patel's show. I can only watch this episode for 10 minutes. I don't believe that a liar will be honest about other things.
I mean that 50+ million figure should already tell you she is a liar. It's just ridiculous, and aligns exactly with CIA/State Dept anti-China talking points. I dislike CCP, but that doesn't mean we should be eating up everything their adversary says about them, and pretend we are the good guys here.
Wumao alert 😮
My mother in law here in HK lived through the cultural revolution so talking to her I think it's pretty clear who the "liar" is here.
Do you know how big China is?@@willsmith39
You are either a cccp shill or a bri'ish simp.
Many of these atrocities mentioned by her are documented by the CCP themselves in documentaries made during those atrocities. For instance Mao's foolishness of killing sparrows which led to a famine in China is well documented by CCP. The man was a village idiot. This lady is being far too kind and diplomatic. Tiananmen Square Massacre was filmed.
Your comment is meant to obfuscate.
Same American propaganda and lies 😂
Who are you trying to impress?