Wheeler plays Three-Animator in Gladiator Decklist: www.moxfield.com/decks/DYZwSkvFuUagOljP7h5aXA EnchantWorldle/Spellify 0:00 Commander Ban List Discussion 8:20 Deck Tech 1:12:39 vs Grixis Midrange 1:16:04 vs Orzhov Soul Sisters 1:39:31 vs Boros Double Strike 2:06:05 vs Gruul Monsters 2:18:39 vs Boros Midrange 2:44:30
Also feels like the explanation for sol ring vs mana crypt could have just been that the negative experience it would have to new and casual players wouldn't outweigh how much benefit it would have. Killing every single precon is just unreasonable. Mana Crypt did not have that.
great breakdown of the bans, as a casual player who also owns a few of the banned cards I'm glad I no longer have to switch them between my Canlander decks to commander decks. these were a long time coming and it is really funny that now people are spec buying mana vault to try to replace crypt.
I appreciate so much that the content creator I look to the most for takes on power has a similar take to me as I thought for the recent bans and the opinions to ban next. It makes me feel validated, whilst I do think in more drastic positions. I feel to ban Rhystic Study *and* Mystic Remora. The card advantage engines we have in Commander are getting better everyday and each new one does it in a thematic way that fits the deck playing it these ancient and powerful cards don't need to stay around anymore.
@@arthurpotter9092 Indeed! Which is why it became popular. That's also why I want to ban Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora. We have so many cards now, and it would benefit the health of the format more if people's draw engines were different and unique, and not these old cards which have dominated in their spot for so long.
Sir, I watch every second of your Gladiator content here on YT. Obviously you have other stuff you also enjoy, but just wanted let you know this content is appreciated.
Re: Seth: Love him to death, seems like a sweetie. The way I'd put it is: He's joking when he's building toxic brews. Some of his fans are dead serious.
@@max27183141 Specifically, some of Seth's content is making decks that have play patterns that are unfun once they resolve (e.g. "you sacrifice all your permanents" or "Look at this kind of annoying combo!"). This can attract people whose interests lean toward the trolly or even toxic.
Thanks for giving your takes Wheeler, though I do have one gripe about your take on the ban list - The idea that “the ban list informs you as to the sorts of cards you shouldn’t play” doesn’t work. You have autism, you’re probably familiar with the “hidden rules” problem - I have autism, lots of my friends do too, and we run into the “wait if I’m not supposed to play this, why isn’t it just banned” thing a lot. I understand that the RC don’t intend to do that, I just wanted to get out my experience that that just isn’t how people work. At cons, I run into people playing Mana Vault and Crypt in “low power” decks. I’ve run into Back to Basics at an LGS. I’ve had Armageddon cast on turn 4. Magic players are garbage at social nuance. The idea of “people will know not to play cards like this” is just not true.
This is why I'm very curious what project the RC is working on that's supposed to help with that pre-game conversation. I agree with the take that you can't ban your way to a "balanced" commander format, so it will always rely on some amount of people just understanding what's reasonable, but I also agree with you that (even autism aside) people suck at understanding what other people consider reasonable. I also think that a lot of the "infamous" cards (like Armageddon) are completely fine as long as the person using them can recognize right place, right time and understands moderation. One turn 4 Armageddon is fine (if they can back it up with a quick win), a turn 4 geddon in two out of 10 games is a problem.
So that's fair but this is the best way to *try* to do that. Expressing soft rules to someone in that context is less helpful than the pattern recognition of "Hey, pal. Don't play this".
@@Ornithopter470 Totally agree! Didn't happen though. Got left alone for 2 decades, became a chase mythic in sealed product with outrageously priced promos.
As a person who got into magic because of AFR/CLB who runs a Tiamat pet deck focused on flavor over power, I am kinda bummed that I'll pretty much never be able to resolve my commander now that Jeweled Lotus is out. I do get the ban, but it hurts me when it feels like that wasn't the target. Edit: Getting roasted lol. Fair enough. The questions: Why you no play x ramp? A: I do to some degree. No dorks b/c not dragons, but I do have the usual artifact suspects including chromatic lantern and the orbs of dragonkind (all 4). Honestly, between dragons and kindred cards, I can't really fit in land ramp. I will have to take a look at changing that philosophy. Q- Why don't you just rule 0 it with your table? A- I do, at my home weekly. But I honestly just don't really wanna have to at my LGS, I'd rather just cut it and run something worse. Q- You seriously can't play your commander? A- No, obviously I was being facetious. It does potentially slow me down though, and that's a bit unfortunate. And I'm sure more games will happen that I will never get a chance to resolve Tiamat than would happen if my best acceleration wasn't illegal. Anyway, it's a bummer knowing that the most valuable card I've ever pulled personally doesn't have value anymore. C'est la vie.
I'm sorry but this makes no sense. Is your deck built around finding jeweled lotus to cast tiamat? You don't run any other ramp for your 7 mana commander?
Wheeler is on the Commander Advisory Group, hosts a podcast about looking at every set in Magic through the eyes of casual commander with Shivam (also on the CAG) and shows up on a lot of commander gameplay shows across youtube. 👍
Wheeler plays Three-Animator in Gladiator
Decklist: www.moxfield.com/decks/DYZwSkvFuUagOljP7h5aXA
EnchantWorldle/Spellify 0:00
Commander Ban List Discussion 8:20
Deck Tech 1:12:39
vs Grixis Midrange 1:16:04
vs Orzhov Soul Sisters 1:39:31
vs Boros Double Strike 2:06:05
vs Gruul Monsters 2:18:39
vs Boros Midrange 2:44:30
Thank you for dividing the video in neat chapters
"Commander isnt _A_ format" thank you, Wheeler.
Also feels like the explanation for sol ring vs mana crypt could have just been that the negative experience it would have to new and casual players wouldn't outweigh how much benefit it would have. Killing every single precon is just unreasonable. Mana Crypt did not have that.
Wheeler saying 'commander is not a format' is the cleanest way I have ever heard the issues with commander I've ever heard.
great breakdown of the bans, as a casual player who also owns a few of the banned cards I'm glad I no longer have to switch them between my Canlander decks to commander decks. these were a long time coming and it is really funny that now people are spec buying mana vault to try to replace crypt.
especially because vault is so much worse than crypt for the things that crypt was used for, vault is barely comparable
I can't wait for wizards to print "Jeweled Eye Diamond"
So, is it time to introduce a points list in Commander? _(non-derogatory)_
Definitely the best option, empirically speaking.
I appreciate so much that the content creator I look to the most for takes on power has a similar take to me as I thought for the recent bans and the opinions to ban next. It makes me feel validated, whilst I do think in more drastic positions.
I feel to ban Rhystic Study *and* Mystic Remora. The card advantage engines we have in Commander are getting better everyday and each new one does it in a thematic way that fits the deck playing it these ancient and powerful cards don't need to stay around anymore.
I'd say, keep remora, ban smothering tithe. rhystic study can go though, it sucks
the whole point of the format for many is to be a place to play cards from every era of the game
@@arthurpotter9092 Indeed! Which is why it became popular. That's also why I want to ban Rhystic Study and Mystic Remora. We have so many cards now, and it would benefit the health of the format more if people's draw engines were different and unique, and not these old cards which have dominated in their spot for so long.
Sir, I watch every second of your Gladiator content here on YT. Obviously you have other stuff you also enjoy, but just wanted let you know this content is appreciated.
Re: Seth: Love him to death, seems like a sweetie.
The way I'd put it is: He's joking when he's building toxic brews.
Some of his fans are dead serious.
Not trying to pick a fight but what does this mean? Seth makes fun non-meta decks and stuff right?
@@max27183141 Specifically, some of Seth's content is making decks that have play patterns that are unfun once they resolve (e.g. "you sacrifice all your permanents" or "Look at this kind of annoying combo!"). This can attract people whose interests lean toward the trolly or even toxic.
There’s no way he talks about the ban for an hour, right?
he talks about rhystic study
@@randumizerplus personally I could hear him talk about it for 4 hours.
Thanks for giving your takes Wheeler, though I do have one gripe about your take on the ban list - The idea that “the ban list informs you as to the sorts of cards you shouldn’t play” doesn’t work. You have autism, you’re probably familiar with the “hidden rules” problem - I have autism, lots of my friends do too, and we run into the “wait if I’m not supposed to play this, why isn’t it just banned” thing a lot.
I understand that the RC don’t intend to do that, I just wanted to get out my experience that that just isn’t how people work. At cons, I run into people playing Mana Vault and Crypt in “low power” decks. I’ve run into Back to Basics at an LGS. I’ve had Armageddon cast on turn 4.
Magic players are garbage at social nuance. The idea of “people will know not to play cards like this” is just not true.
This is why I'm very curious what project the RC is working on that's supposed to help with that pre-game conversation. I agree with the take that you can't ban your way to a "balanced" commander format, so it will always rely on some amount of people just understanding what's reasonable, but I also agree with you that (even autism aside) people suck at understanding what other people consider reasonable. I also think that a lot of the "infamous" cards (like Armageddon) are completely fine as long as the person using them can recognize right place, right time and understands moderation. One turn 4 Armageddon is fine (if they can back it up with a quick win), a turn 4 geddon in two out of 10 games is a problem.
So that's fair but this is the best way to *try* to do that. Expressing soft rules to someone in that context is less helpful than the pattern recognition of "Hey, pal. Don't play this".
"Nadu, who gives a fuck?." Lmao. Nadu isn't real and cannot bird at you.
crypt is still at 100 crying rn
@@christianroot6287 cheapest copy on mtggoldfish is $170. People are panic selling. The price will buoy back in a few weeks once that's done.
Really strong agree about Mana Crypt on all points. Really think they missed with that one, particularly considering its age.
Honestly, crypt probably should have been banned from the get go, as it was not printed in a real set. It was a promo card.
@@Ornithopter470 Totally agree! Didn't happen though. Got left alone for 2 decades, became a chase mythic in sealed product with outrageously priced promos.
I've seen a ton of this community outing themselves publicly after these bans and it's a little gross
Yeah, I'm a little sad that has made me actually want to play less magic, and I LIKE the bans
Unban Flash
Meow
As a person who got into magic because of AFR/CLB who runs a Tiamat pet deck focused on flavor over power, I am kinda bummed that I'll pretty much never be able to resolve my commander now that Jeweled Lotus is out.
I do get the ban, but it hurts me when it feels like that wasn't the target.
Edit: Getting roasted lol. Fair enough.
The questions: Why you no play x ramp?
A: I do to some degree. No dorks b/c not dragons, but I do have the usual artifact suspects including chromatic lantern and the orbs of dragonkind (all 4). Honestly, between dragons and kindred cards, I can't really fit in land ramp. I will have to take a look at changing that philosophy.
Q- Why don't you just rule 0 it with your table?
A- I do, at my home weekly. But I honestly just don't really wanna have to at my LGS, I'd rather just cut it and run something worse.
Q- You seriously can't play your commander?
A- No, obviously I was being facetious. It does potentially slow me down though, and that's a bit unfortunate. And I'm sure more games will happen that I will never get a chance to resolve Tiamat than would happen if my best acceleration wasn't illegal.
Anyway, it's a bummer knowing that the most valuable card I've ever pulled personally doesn't have value anymore. C'est la vie.
That's what Rule 0 is for. You are not trying to metagame here. I think people will be fine with it.
I'm sorry but this makes no sense. Is your deck built around finding jeweled lotus to cast tiamat? You don't run any other ramp for your 7 mana commander?
Me who has been casting Thraximundar and Karthus for 12 years:
I never had those cards and resolved mine on the regular. You have green and that ramps like mad and for cheap
dude run an explosive vegetation or 2 and you'll be fine
wow an hour talking about card bans in a format you dont play lol why
Wheeler is on the Commander Advisory Group, hosts a podcast about looking at every set in Magic through the eyes of casual commander with Shivam (also on the CAG) and shows up on a lot of commander gameplay shows across youtube. 👍
he's on the CAG smartass
Playing Commander is literally my job
Wow, talking out your ass about shit you don't know lol why
@@Darian2Darian Where can I find said podcast 🤔