Why Freddy vs Jason Is More An Elm Street Movie Than Friday The 13th
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Often the debate can be had regarding whether or not the audience cares about the victims in a horror film or the killers themselves. Sure, we all love the Laurie Strodes and Nancy Thompsons of the world but what about the lesser characters in the later entries? In those instances, we are firmly on the side of the killer. So in 2003, when two titans of the horror genre did battle, you can bet that no one was buying a ticket to root on Miss Lori Campbell. So let's praise the Voorhees and Krueger of it all as we slash our way through Freddy vs Jason.
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Written, Narrated and Edited by Tyler Nichols
Produced by John Fallon and Tyler Nichols
Executive Producer by Berge Garabedian
SERIES SYNOPSIS: Ahhh the 80's. A simpler time where the blood ran red, the tits swung freely, and the weed was copiously smoked. A time where rampant killers were simply excuses for excessive sex and over the top murder. Yes, we're looking at an era where the slasher movie ran wild over cinemas everywhere. Today, we're looking at "Real Slashers."
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It does feel more like a Nightmare on Elm Street film, but you do see more of Jason's childhood and his mother more than his previous films. If only Tom Mathews' Tommy Jarvis was the deputy who helped the kids.
i never thought about how Tommy could have been included before reading this comment but that really would have worked. he knows the most about Jason out of anyone and its not outside the realm of possibility he would move to a new town and start a new life and job there. Maybe Tommy was still under the rights of paramount but if they can use Jason and Pamala i don't see why they wouldn't be able to use Tommy
I like it better when counselors were off screwing around and Jason drowned because no one was watching him. That's realistic. Not a fan of saying the kids there beat him up and threw him in then let him drown. That's a bit much. Bunch of psycho kids.
I loved when Freddy jumped out of the water in the Crystal lake dream sequence and looked just like Darth Maul. That was terrifying
That was so Kool it always gave me matrix vibes
That was Rey mysterio
Scariest and coolest design
That looked that Freddy had on his face when he saw Jason in the real world is classic.
It's a total Elm Street movie with Jason as the guest star.
which isn't a bad thing Freddys just got more going on lore wise than Jason. for one he can talk, has a personality, he has a rich backstory with the town and people in it. the Friday series doesn't really have that outside of Jason's origin its just a silent masked killer stalking mostly random people every movie. they included Jason, the camp and even his mom what more from the Friday series could they really have added to make it more Fridayish?
Calling him a guest star is exaggerating though Jason gets the body count in the movie and his history is explored in the film still. It’s a bit like BvS where it’s 60% Batman and 40% Superman. The same can be said here with Freddy and Jason.
This Movie for me is a classic. It came out right after the Blackout of 03 happened, and on my birthday. Having grown up with these Movies, of course I was all in for it. What made this for me, was the atmosphere in the Theater I saw it in. Everyone had an amazing time watching it, and we just took over the place. I was upset that Jason got the bulk of the kills, but I understood that it was more of an Elm Street Film, because New Line was making it. Of course Freddy was going to be the Star of the Show.
Same, I saw it at a midnight show with my gf at the time and another couple and the crowd was electric! We laughed and jumped the whole time, everyone loved it. One of my favorite movie-going experiences ever!
I've actually always considered it to be an "Elm Street" film The whole story of the movie is about nightmares, Jason just happens to be in it
It’s weirdly a Nightmare movie where Jason does like 80% of the killing
as Freddy said he'll get the blood but ill get the glory
Definitely was more a Elmstreet movie because of the New Line and Freddy connection
Replying to the 6:51 part. Jason wasn’t supposed to have that crack in the mask in the 8th movie because it wasn’t supposed to be the same mask. It got destroyed in the 7th movie.
Red & Green are also the colors of Freddy's Sweater. Of course, it's a Freddy movie. It's a New Line Cinema (The House That FREDDY Built) production. It's time for a sequel 11:11
There will never be another Robert Englund.
As much as I like Freddy vs Jason, what most people don't realize is hear me out, they made Jason Voorhees good towards the climatic scene. Yes both slashers are evil, but deep down 1 is good
What disappointed me about Freddy vs Jason, was that Freddy only gets one good kill, while Jason massacres half the city.
By making it a “Nightmare” film you make Freddy the villain and Jason the “good guy” by default.
Even if it was a Friday film, i don't think there is any way to make Freddy Krueger a good guy. I mean, the guy's just pure evil, far worse than Jason ever was. But still, Freddy Krueger is amazing character.
@@CoolGuyVoorhees Jason does have a higher kill count than Freddy.
Jason was definitely the good guy. He killed people but it was cartoonish and fun. Didn't feel like a horror movie at all.
"I've been away from my children..for far too long."
Watching this opening night and I remember the theater was whooping for that line!
FvJ IS indeed more a Nightmare film than a Friday film, but.. Jason gets most ALL of the kills. Freddy only really gets one kill in the entire movie.
(I was rooting for Freddy..loved his little wink at the end.)
“Jason fearing water” to me was the “child” within Jason being “pulled out” in the dream world. In Part 4, Jason didn’t fear water because his goal was to kill two teens on the property. In Part 6, he didn’t fear water because he was DEAD and was too tunnel visioned on Tommy to care. Part 7? He’s dead. He doesn’t care except for the two teens on shore. Part 8? Yeah he’s still dead. So of course he’s going to swim.
But Freddy Vs Jason puts Jason inside Freddy’s nightmare powered world, and eventually during the fight Jason catches on that he can’t kill Freddy on his territory. Freddy can control gravity, so of course he’s going to control water, and Jason doesn’t “know” nightmare water like human water. So when he steps back, it’s not me really seeing fear, it’s more like confusion and then ultimately entrapment.
I was literally typing "He wasn't powerful enough yet" hahaha.
same lmao
Freddy pulled off her nose in the dream, but he wasn't yet powerful enough for it effect the real world. That's why he was desperate for Jason to get the fear startedand running, so he could feed off the fear and be strong enough to kill in the real world through dreams, again.
Also, the Jasom doesn't speak and he's not strategic, of course Freddy would be the Alpha in that instance. He can control the dream world, and apparently, Jason sleeps...easy to manipulate someone like that, specially when they know nothing about you.
I love the flick. It's pure guilty pleasure.
Was gonna say the same, but nah, it's just a pleasure!
This whole argument about whether or not Jason is afraid of water or not, Jason the “zombie” isn’t afraid of water. Jason the little boy who drowned was afraid of water- and that is what Freddy was exploiting. They even mention it in water Freddy died from fire, Jason by water…
Bingo, don’t get how people don’t get it. That’s why he turns back into a child in the scene. I swear some people really seem to need everything spelled out for them.
The producer only watched the OG F13 & you can say Kelly's nose was down to Freddy not being strong enough yet 🤔🤔
This was the first Freddy or Jason movie I was old enough to see in theaters, and I loved it.
Still the best 'vs' movie we've had
its the only one where the two icons are actually ripping each other to pieces you can't do that with Batman and Superman or King Kong and Godzilla. i guess maybe Alien and Predator but those are just monsters of the same species there is no main Alien or main Predator you follow film to film
I would argue this totally made new fans. I was the perfect age to watch this and it was how I found out about Freddy and Jason and went back to the originals. It made me such a huge fan and I wouldn't have become one without it.
Kelly still had her nose because Freddy didn’t have enough power yet . He said he had to get them talking about him before he could start killing
I remember the DVD coming out and I watched it everyday that week!
I heard a channel called RealLifeRyan give a more generous take on Jason's apparent fear of water. He posited that Jason wasn't afraid of water, but reliving how he felt when he drowned, which would make sense as the only thing that could scare him and recontextualize why Freddy cast himself as one of the camp counselors in that sequence. As apparent as "Jason fears water" looks on a first viewing, I think it more likely that he's just reliving his most vulnerable moment and that this is backed up by how Jason's devotion to his mom is shown by how the only thing that got him out of Hell was Freddy putting on Pamela Drag.
All of that said, the director's choice not to use Cain Hoddard, lack of old Friday footage (even if it was for legal reasons) and the plot of the film definitely make this a Nightmare film that has Jason play a big role rather than a merger of the two genres. Understandable, since Jason doesn't talk, but bringing back Tommy Jarvis instead of using all new humans could have balanced things better.
I was never really bothered by the premise they did the best they could do 🤷🏾♂️
I play Jason at a haunted attraction in Ohio. You’d be surprised at how many people tell me “Jason is afraid of water.” I realize that this is probably the only film of his they’ve seen, and let it go in one ear and out the other…. uncultured swine.
That would make my blood boil hearing that load of bogus. But you’re right, just let it go in one ear and out the other, cuz in the long run, it just makes them look stupid af lol
Where in Ohio?
@@R-Lee- Lordstown Ohio
Even in this movie Jason isnt afraid of water. We literally see him rise out of the water twice in this movie. Freddy brought out the little boy who drowned in the nightmare realm, and that’s who is afraid of water.
I have no idea why this is such a difficult concept for people to understand. Freddy pulls people’s subconsicous fears to the surface and makes them 10x worse. That’s his whole gimmick. Saying Jason is afraid of water is like saying Nancy in Elm Street 1 is afraid of phones because Freddy became a phone.
I can't believe it's over 20 years old now!
Still an epic film. To this day it’s not forgotten. But I agree the final girl was not scripted right
She was sexy tho
She was sexy tho
Cool to put a face to the voice haha. Been watching your videos for a minute and this is the first video I remember seeing you do A roll for
This movie would have benefited from a plethora of more kills.
When it comes to Freddy's powers being weird, the fact that no one seemed to 'know him' because of the towns little agreement, makes Freddy weak and he can no longer affect the physical bodies of his victims until Jason really ramps up the killing and people start to talk about Freddy more and more.
He was getting more powerful, but not quite there yet, to effect the real world, but he was getting stronger, so he kept testing his powers. He was closer, but not quite there. Very soon there after, he was able to do legit damage.
I always felt the the nose coming off was to show that while Freddy wasn't at full power, he was starting to get stronger. His first attempt being the glove disappates, the next actually making contact but not enough to translate to the waking world, then the message finally saying he's back
The way they brought the two characters together I thought was pretty good. The actual fights between Freddy and Jason were epic and fun to watch.
I think the fact that every nightmare series collection, they always had this film in there and for the F13 series collections they didn't add FvJ so thats telling which series that this is considered to be a sequel to
You guys need to read the book 'Slash of the Titans' which details the absolute chore this film was to get made - mainly because it explains what we all missed about the "Jason's scared of water" scene.
The writer who originally wrote that scene explained that it's not Jason being afraid of water, it's a fear of dying by drowning as a child again that cripples him in that moment (hence his reversion to child Jason).
Granted, the film does a bad job of telling us this, but it's a glaring omission from a channel that usually does its research so well.
But, totally agree, this is a 'Nightmare...' movie, but it was always going to be with New Line making it and Freddy being the more interesting character. Plus he speaks, so that was always going to put him ahead of Jason.
The Jason Vorhees table flip entrance is still one of the greatest things I've seen in cinema.
The reason why there was A LOT of in consistencies in this movie is because the Director didn't watch all the Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm street movies....Not wanting to fulling understand Jason and Freddy lore ...the producers wanted a Korean Vibe. So yea.
I disagree, I think Freddy Vs. Jason strikes a good balance between the two franchises and honestly is probably the best we could have gotten at the time. I think Freddy Vs. Jason would have been a different movie if it was made in the early 90’s- could have been better or worse, we will never know.
Keep these going
Jason being scared of water makes as much sense as making Sadako scared of wells, Freddy scared of fire or Chucky being scared of bullets. Just because thats the cause of death doesnt automatically make them horrified of it. Dumb idea
Yeah I’d still say its down to Freddy not being strong enough yet in reference to the Kelly nose situation
Friday says The blacker the berry the sweeter the juice.... so not sure if dark meat is bad dialogue
The whole Jason is afraid of water is so silly considering jason is in water in multiple movies but whatever
I don’t really see anyone arguing that it’s more of a Freddy film than a Jason film . I think that’s pretty well established amongst the fan base. Honestly I think that’s the correct approach with a film like this because while he is very bad ass , and I do like Jason as a character , he is rather one dimensional and also does not talk , so it is rather difficult to have a narrative that is structured around his character and his story line as opposed to Freddy.
Classic film. Jason won. Wish it was hodder. But what we got was good
Freddy won
@Stigmatix666 what's Freddy gonna do bite him 😂
@@mrhumble2937 Way to turn off your brain and being a blind Jason fanboy 🤣🤣
@@Stigmatix666 just speaking facts. Poor freddy
It has it's flaws, but many of us liked it and wanted a sequel. Seeing Freddy's nightmare world with the updated technology had me hyped of how a new Nightmare movie would be fun and cool. Then came the remake we shall not speak of...
Freddy had more to the story, but Jason had all the kills in the movie. Freddy only killed one person in that movie.
One of my biggest issues is Freddy only kills 2 people, one in a flashback and one in the movie. If he had a few creative kills it would of worked better. Other than that if they made it again they could have kids from Springwood go to Crystal Lake and flip the idea where Freddy is haunting them. Being in the middle of nowhere would be scary which is perfect for him. He even says every town has an Elm Street so it's a loophole for people to have nightmares outside of the town.
A) I LOVE this movie!! 😆 ❤️
B) of course it's more of an Elm St. Movie, it's Freddy vs Jason, not Jason vs Freddy! Top billing, baby!! 😉
C) the beautifully ambiguous ending is fanTAStic!
I know from your video on 7 that you love Hodder but I thought Kirzinger was perfect for this depiction of Jason...his size, strength, and even a bit of sadness mixed in, all Karloff's Frankenstein Monster.
I mean, Freddy is the reason Jason woke from his nappy nap. Had it been more of a Friday style movie, Freddy would’ve had a tougher time with Jason. Also he got top billing lol
Freddy has personality...Jason has none.
Therefore.... 👀
Also: Who knew, Crystal Lake was right next to Elm Street?
It’s time for a nightmare in elm street & Friday the 13th series to make a comeback, & with social media and hashtags/tiktok trends I could totally see another Freddy vs Jason movie being a huge hit
11:41 ok so here is the thing you missed and most people do...
By the rules of the movies Freddy can be defeated, he can be forgotten. because the towns people know his weakness he had to plan something big. They succeeded, by using this against him he grew weak and disappeared. Here is the genius part of the movie...FREDDY IS NEVER GOING TO BE FORGOTTEN BY JASON. Jason has his head in his shack. . .even if said shack is in HELL...Jason still REMEMBERS HIM and who is more powerful than Jason? Nobody is going to erase Freddy now and that was his plan the whole time. Freddy is a joker and a level above genius to pull this off
I remember renting this on VHS.
I Have Freddy Vs Jason On DVD It Would've Made It Better If Nancy Thompson And Tommy Jarvis Was In This Movie.
I gotta say. As much as i love Kane. Ken was perfect for FvJ. The size difference played a huge part in making this clash so much more appealing. Ken's approach of a mindless child zombie works. Because Kane had that pissed off kid type of posture. The way he breathes and emotes. In FvJ he would've overshadowed Freddy. While Ken's demeanor works better in complimenting Freddy's bombastic personality. So it's a better fit.
I have always watched your videos to fall asleep Tyler Nichols - so seeing a face to your perfect narration is like a JoBlo version of Freddy vs. Jason - two icons coming together.
Oh and great video and understanding on this epic showdown for what it was!
I agree with most of the points you bring up here.
One thing I will partially explain/ defend is the plot point of aa you put it Jason being afraid of water. ( Yes, that would be ludicrous if that was what they were trying to illustrate) Hear me out o this, though , I don't think fear of water was what they meant to convey but rather the fear of DROWNING in water. A subtle but important differences that the film doesn't communicate well.
This does make sense in the cannon of both this film and the Friday franchise....when you remember that Jason either did drown or nearly drown as a boy( depending on how you interpret his backstory. Furthermore, remember in the later middle sequels when he returns from the grave as an undead REVENANT the only way to stop him is by trapping him under the lake. A fear of water makes no sense but a feat of being trapped underwater again might make some logical sense.
I think that's what they were going for here and executed it poorly.
Green for Jason… or red and green for Freddy world
That dark meat line got a laugh from half the theater back in 03. Times were so much better before the victimhood mentality destroyed everyone’s brain.
They don’t really need to develop characters for Jason to kill your watching two colossal monsters fight each other for the body count not a titanic script
i remember seeing it was coming out on my birthday so i saw it in theatres with my siblings and mom at 11 years old
Except, which villian had more kills?
By my count, Jason by alot.
So imo, Freddy/Jason is divided pretty evenly... too bad we didn't get a sequel that was featured more prominently at Crystal Lake.
Then we could have had a second part that was more Friday-centric in tone, location and would have been a nice yin/yang two-parter.
That's what I was hoping for.
I got a theory on this Jason. What if Jason X is canon? And at the end of that movie. When he crashed thru the atmosphere. He went in so fast he time jumped back to the past. And with that his memory is wiped clean back to the child in the lake. Now the fear of water makes sense. Because we don't know how long it took for him to get over that fear.
And at the end of FvJ. He walks out of the water triumphant. Because again..he finally got over that fear.
While I agree it's more an elm than a lake movie, there is the added amusement of a lot of elm style victims dying Jason style, and THE MOST lake-style victim having that amazing elm style caterpillar hookah death.
Jason was afraid of drowning as child never just water, which why Freddy took advantage of Jason's child like psyche in his nightmare. It's been over 20 years and we still haven't figured this out?
I agree with everything you said. Kane Hodder was the BEST Jason. No question. Robert will ALWAYS be Freddy. He is perfect as played, by him. Loved this movie but it could have been so much better.
It really annoys me how people just blindly think that this movie trying to showcase that Jasons afraid of water. NO. What it’s doing at least nuance wise is having Jason be afraid of drowning again. The water makes him feel vulnerable, he is afraid of feeling vulnerable. Adding him getting bullied and drowning is a great addition and ties nicely into why he doesn’t kill kids as it makes him feel vulnerable, he feels like his old self, same with the water at least in this movie, Freddy brings back his fear of drowning. It’s great writing really, plus the nerd guy was good imo.
Never took it as Jason being afraid of water. He drowned as a kid. It was simply Freddy manipulating his ptsd.
Sooo this guy thinks that memories in a nightmare happen the exact same way it happened in real time? I've had car engines turn into omelettes in dreams. It's a nightmare. Not just any nightmare. One controlled by Freddy 😂
I still canta get over how well Freddie was able 2 fight
Wait, Freddy died by fire, Jason by water… how can we use that?
I saw this at the Odeon cinema, on its first showing, which was around midday. I really enjoyed it. The intro was great, the boiler room fight in Jason's nightmare was excellent... the way Freddy toyed with him. Then end fight in reality was creatively done. As a crossover movie I thought they did a good job.
Usually, I have plenty to say. However problem in this case, it seems like you spoke everything I thought of and could think of. I am super impressed, even more so than usual, after having been blessed by finding this channel. Thank you very much for another Freddy video. And Jason video.
Yet Freddy kills like 1 person the entire movie and it ends on crystal lake and starts at crystal lake
0:30 well maybe Jason Ritter cause we all felt his dads death around that time
Yes, Ronnie is part to blame on it cause he already made it on the special features. He had never seen NightmareOnElmStreet or the fro 13 series right there. That was a bad choice having a Director, whose never seen any of the Continuity does not help either.
I appreciate this movie because I was 9 when it came out and it introduced me to both of them, I love Friday The 13th more but I still enjoy this one. But easily the biggest missed opportunity for this movie was that in the original script it was gonna reveal that Freddy actually worked at Camp Crystals lake and that he was the one who pushed jason into lake and when he saw how easy it was to kill him it motivated him to kill more children when he went back to spring wood. I think that would’ve been cool and could’ve been another way to connect them.
1 I think Kelly's character was having an ordinary nightmare, not a Freddy one? that is the only thing I can come up with to explain why she didnt lose her nose when she woke up
2 Freddy is gonna Freddy, he dont give no figs about offending anyone so I dont think it fair to judge the dialogue in the film as "dumb", It is in character for him yeah?
Anywho, great video once again, Tyler
I think very few people think that Freddy vs. Jason looks more like an Elm Street than Friday the 13th, besides the movie is terrying, but with some funny scenes, which is typical in horror movies, think of Peter Jackson's Dead Alive or Scary movie. Furthermore, I remember when this reboot came out, I saw it as a kid with my entire family and if you ask me about who I am fan of, I'm a fan of Freddy forever.
Hey wait a damn minute! Jason was still stalking his victims. He was stalking them in the corn stalks 😂
With New Line Cinema losing the rights to the Elm Street franchise and Friday reverting back to Paramount pictures, It's highly doubtful that another film will ever happen.
"The only thing to fear, is fear, himself" Best line!
Oh, THANK YOU so much for this video, I've always felt Freddy vs Jason was always just A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 8 and I'm glad to see it being called such. There were so many nuances and throwbacks to the Elm Street movies like Hypnocil and the KRGR TV station they watch at the clinic, and comparable references to Friday the 13th were noticeably absent. While I'm a fan of both series and I'm glad they gave Nightmare fans so much fan service, I was disappointed at the strong lack of Friday fan love. Still love the movie as an early 2000's nostalgia flick and it does have copious amounts of entertaining slasher moments, but I do have my qualms with it.
I ate this movie up when it first came out, but watching it now through a more mature and critical lens I see its issues. I’m glad someone else notices the issues with Jason’s portrayal in this one. Despite my gripes I have with it now I still enjoy watching it because in the end, it brought Freddy and Jason together and that’s all we ever asked for.
Robert Englund had to carry the movie, Jason cant speak and has no real meaning other than to murder teens who smoke, have sex or drink on his camp, Freddy was the mastermind and needed to narrate the story forward and come off as the more evil monster so you feel sorry for Jason
Yes. But he shouldn't have had to spoonfeed the plot to the audience, and break the fourth wall, every 10 minutes. The script actually called for Heather Langenkamp to reprise her role as Nancy in order to do a voice over in the first scene; "Do you wanna know who Fred Krueger was?" basically repeating what her mother said in part 1. It would have been far better than Freddy talking way too much in the scene..
@@Stigmatix666 yea I agree that sounds a nice touch especially for long time fans of the series but there were also kids going to see FvJ that might have never watched an elm street movie before so Freddy had to get himself across in the opening act
@@joe77750 Yup, I know. The strange thing with this movie is that it's for all intents and purposes aimed at older fans, but it wasn't made or released until it became a "millennial slasher" by default, for lack of a better word.
And I do believe this contributed to a lot of the dumber, spoonfeeding dialogue in the movie.
That would most likely never have happened if it had been released in the 90's. But alas..
Jason isn’t “scared” of water in this movie, everyone keeps getting it wrong. He is in the dream world at this point and Freddy is manipulating. Jason has a “subconscious fear” of water and Freddy is able to exploit that. Jason drowned as a child so yeah he does go in the water all the time, but in the back of his mind he definitely doesn’t like it.
"He wasn't scared of the water"
*explains that he was in fact scared of the water there because it triggered Jason so relive his past*
Lmao
lol no. And he never even drowned as a kid.
@@mrhumble2937 he literally canonically drowned in crystal lake. They say this in EVERY FILM
@@21Handguns no they thought he drowned. He wasn't a zombie until part 6.
@@mrhumble2937 I guess Pamela just forgot that little detail in the first Friday film. Would've helped save a lot of innocent peoples lives and her job 🤣
It could be a Jason movie only if you consider Friday the 13th 2009, Freddy Vs Jason and Jason X to be a loose trilogy in that order, other wise it’s a Freddy film by far
He may not appear on the "big screen" but Robert has been working steady since this film he's always out there, step away from theaters
The movie is more an Elm Street movie because Jason has little to no character he's mote a forcenof nature while Freddy has all the mythology. That is also why the movie wants Jason as the anti hero by the end because Freddy is more evil then Jason so it's only natural to root for Jason over Freddy.
One's fear is Water and the other is Fire 👌
It was clear that Freddy couldnt keep Kelly's nose because he wasnt strong enough yet.
The "got your nose" problem is nothing new. In part 3 Freddy cut off Kristen's moms head in a dream only for her to still be alive.
No joke. I just bought this movie on blu ray today.