Here is a link to the S-Ride 520C/ 580C mentioned in the video: www.somafabshop.com/shop/590839-s-ride-rear-derailleur-overlength-cage-11sp-black-rd-m520c-gravel-5794?search=s-ride#attr=
@@cthulpiss Its fine. I order stuff there all the time. Their ecommerce site isn't the best since they are mostly a distributor. No EU presence that I'm aware of.
Fun fact: Tiagra 4700 came out after 105 become the 3rd groupset to get the 11 speed treatment. Shimano at the time was updating groupsets at a rate of once per year, so 11 speed and the new pull ratio was already several years old. Then, Tiagra was unique in that the GS rear derailleurs had more tooth capacity (41 vs 37) and higher rater max cog size (34 vs 32) versus the top 3 tiers of road groupset. When building a bike in 2015, I chose to a Tiagra 4700 RD with 105 5800 shifters to permit an 18t jump on the cranks (44/26) and 11-34 cassette.
We all know that he promotes friction shifting on the channel, but this video isn’t for the friction shifters. It’s for the people out there who want the clicky clicky! The sride is amazing
I have bar end friction for the front derailleur with a 22-33-44 triple and Shimano 105 10 speed shirters, 12-32 SRAM cassette, and mechanical 4 pot cable brakes. The bar end on the left was needed due to wrist injury and is still there despite my wrist healing. This option would work for hydraulic brakes too as the left lever is not involved in shifting.
I grew up with trigger shifters and grip shifts and all I use these days are friction shifters. To me, theres no real “performance” improvement and all the finicky issues with set up and maintenance. Set the limit screws and call it a day
I’m a fan of triple chainrings but friction ain’t for me no more. I also have a couple sports cars and drive automatics, albeit with paddle shifters; all shifting I need. In fact half my reason for a triple is to just quickly switch from a large 52 to 42 and leave cassette alone where it is. 👍✌️
3x9 here, wide range on the chain rings. Old guy living in hilly country. Genevalle friction/brake shifters. Totally friction friction for the chainrings and "clicky friction" for the rear end. I'm using about 23 of the 27 possible shift combos. I'm thinking of going 2x11 Cuse using my friction shifters. I need to check out the shifting sequence among other things. .
I have been using an 11 speed 105 R7000 shifters paired with both GRX 10 speed front and rear derailleur on an XT 11 speed 11-40 cassette. Crankset is a GRX 46/30 chainrings. 1 year+ later, absolutely zero problems.
@@rankin90049 yup... 10 speed 11-36 cassette works fine. But i am running an 11 speed 11-40 cassette and so far, no problems. Shifts great. Loving the granny bailout gear. Need those sometimes when the climbing gets rough...
Well researched, well presented, thanks for sharing this info with nerds like me! I’m an old guy, 69 years young, road cyclist since I was 14. I’m still racking up 5K miles per year, and I need a wide gear range to accommodate my “need-for-speed” and cope with the mountains in my west Texas home. I just finished adapting my Shimano 105 triple-10spd (5600) to meet those needs, by using a 9spd XTR M971 rear derailleur and 10spd, 11-36t Deore XT M771 cassette. Combining these parts with my 3x10, 105 shifters and 50/39/30t 105 crank set, I have a 545% gear range. Low/low ratio is 1.2:1 (~22.2 gear inches with 28x700c tires), while high/high is 0.22:1 (~121.3 gear inches). The XTR M971 is meant to be used with up to 34t cassettes, it clears the 36t with the B-screw turned almost all the way in. Shifts are crisp, and the driveline is supremely quiet with a fresh CN-6701 Ultegra chain. I can already envision an 11-speed (maybe even 12-speed), 2 chainring setup, using some combination of the components you discussed in this video. I’m glad you tried the “Tanpan” adapter, I’ve had my eye on those for a while now. Thanks again for making this video, I’m now a subscriber and fan of your channel, looking forward to seeing more of your content.😃❤
I'm so appreciative of the work you put in to provide us with practical information. And very timely too. I've been looking st new bikes. Love the GRX 600 jydro brskes but I've been wondering about a Tiagra and GRX 400 fitted bikes. Most of my bikes remain friction shifted.
The New Shimano road pull ratio was introduced when Dura-Ace 9000 went 11-speed in 2012, a whole three years before Tiagra 4700 dropped in 2015, Ultegra (6800) and 105 (5800) followed in 2013 and 2014, respectively. Tiagra 4600 was already 10-speed but still 1.7 ratio. Sora never jumped to 10-speed and is still 1.7 and 9-speed as of R3000, with all the compatibility to other 9-speed rear derailleurs. Also 8-speed Dura-Ace had its own thing entirely, incompatible with the rest of Shimano's offering.
Hey! We do know why Shimano changed the cable pull on Tiagra 4700. The OG cable pull required more frequent RD adjustment at 10 speeds vs 9. It tended to shift rough or miss shift unless it was adjusted just right. That's why Shimano updated the cable pull for their 11 speed drivetrains and also why Tiagra got it as a trickle down. Loving the peak mechanical series.
Yep. They even released a different Tiagra 10sp, 4600. The looser tolerances of Tiagra combined with the older pull ratio results in such poor shifting that they changed it.
This is dynamite information sir. Love from a touring cyclist currently weighing up a new drive chain. PS Pro budget tip...get Sensah Quantum 10 speed shifters instead of pricier Tiagra ones ...great quality and fully Tiagra 4700 compatible.
Happy patreon here. I love this peak mechanical content. It’s inspired me to run MS Sword brifters, 46x30 crank and Cues 8020 with HG 11x42 ten speed and it’s fantastic. Will likely adjust to 44x28 to get that sub 20inch winch gear.
Thanks for the depth and breadth of experimentation with mechanical drivetrains; no doubt, there is a lot of effort required to set up and ride each iteration!
Any chance you can do a list of those components you mentioned and put them in the video description? Happy to buy it through a webstore where you have affiliated links. Just makes it easier to follow. Thanks for your help.
Thanks for this video! I have a 2x 10 speed gravel bike with a Frankenstein drive train that will eventually need new shifters and your research helps a lot!
Russ, I got a bit lost during the initial explanation and want to make sure I am getting this right. Is the main point that the 11 speed GRX derailleur can handle an 11-42 cassette? That seems to be the key to allow for a big 2x gear range? I am having trouble understanding how the 10 speed Tiagra levers are relevant as it sounds like the key is using a large cassette in a 2x setup. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
My peak mechanical is 42/28 x 11-40. Tiagra 4600 flat bar shifters, Altus rear mech, microshift road front mech, no adapters or converters needed, less than $100 for all 3 new.
@@SchwappSchwopp Altus m310, microshift fd-r712, tiagra 3600 flat bar shifter, sunrace 11-40, crank arms are shimano mtb triple 110/74 bcd, I’m using a sunrace friction shifter for the front currently bc it’s easier to keep the chain from rubbing the front derailleur
I’ve just been bike packing / touring the Scottish North Coat 500 fully loaded. It was hilly but nothing crazy steep (like the 30% gradients in the North York Moors). I’m running an Uno bar end shifter on my gravel bike with 36t upfront and Deore 11 - 46 10 speed at the rear. No issues whatsoever 👍. Going forward I might change to Deore 10 - 51 12 speed. Just need to swap the Hope freehub to microspline.
for 4 yrs been running tiagra 10spd brifters with grx 400 rd 11-42 and 50-34 105 crank. my kona jake goes anywhere. for 2yrs running force 22 11spd brifters with senah srx pro rd 11-51 cassette, force 22 1x crank 40t no preload adjuster to fit 73 bb shell on mtb frame. works great!! drop bar mtbs are so much fun!!
Great video I have been running the tiagra 4700 with the rx400 for a few months now on alpine gravel roads and it's been flawless. Is there any real improvement to switch to the rx800?
Thanks for the reply 😊 I heard your comments in the video, but as you gave them both 10/10, it's hard to know if there's any real value in the more expensive option. I'm always seeking the best experience for my limited budget to avoid all the industry gimmicks.
I so needed this on a hilly gravel sportive I did last week lol. I have a Tiagra 4700 groupset on my bike with 46/34 front and 11-36 rear. The Tiagra rear mech just about supports that range (and maybe could be squeezed a little further) but it's a stretch. I was really wishing I had some lower gears.
That S-Ride rear derailleur looked interesting. Crazy range too. I know the weight difference between all of these derailleurs are negligible, but aren't the CUES ders very heavy? Wonder if the S-Ride one is quite a bit lighter? It looks much more svelte compared to CUES.
This is a very timely video for me as I'm planning out how to setup my new Lynskey GR300 frameset with the parts from my road bike that its replacing. Currently its a mishmash of 5800 and R7000 11s stuff but since my new frameset is disc brake, I'm moving over to hydraulic GRX levers and need to plan out what goes and what stays so that I still have a functional bike to sell in my road bike. Sounds like I may actually be setup quite well for the conversion, just needed to figure out how to get a larger 11-40 or 11-42 cassette on there to give me climbing gears with the 50/34 crankset. This video really helps even if my plans aren't fully cable-mechanical.
My setup is the grx 400 rd with an 11-36 cassette 10sp and up front the grx 8xx series 48-31 crankset. I also upgraded the jockey/pulley wheels to the 8xx series, so the bottom wheel is 13t, not 11t. Shifting at the rear is fine. This setup allows me a good range of gears both on and off road. However, as I ride less off-road, I might reduce the cassette to 11-34 and increase the crankset to 50-34. This will still give me a 1:1 ratio but also minimise the jumps in between.
thats a much wider range of gears than i actually need. for my new bike, i went with a 1x10 Sword setup, 40x 11/48. has all the gears i need. i used to run 2 chainrings, but when i was being honest with myself, i never used the big ring. in my new setup, i use almost all the gears, very simple, works well for me
I'm considering updating my wife's and my older road bikes to a Tiagra 4703 triple with the 11-34 and get the 165 mm crank. My bike is using the older Ultegra 6600 with 172.5 cranks, 53/39, 12-27 cassette. My wife's bike is an 2012 Gary Fisher WSD with the 105, 50/34 and 12-27 but with 170 mm cranks. Since we're older and plan to keep our forever bikes but upgrade the mechanicals before they're not available anymore and gearing to suit us as we get older. The Tiagra triple is our hack at getting a wider gear range without the 1x plus I'll say it, gives a better chain line throughout the cassette.
New bicycles are quickly getting away from being the simple efficient machines they once were. Call me a Luddite but all this electronic and hydro junk is so over complicated and without reason. Give me that solid as a rock 1980s Campy! Actually around year 2000 plus or minus, bikes peeked with 9 speed Shimano. Road, mountain, everything worked together, unlimited gear inches, simple to work on, thank goodness for eb@y keeping all the good stuff available!
As Always I love your content and appreciate you keeping it real and testing it off the stand…I am in a real pickle with my current ride and I have been eating up Peak Mechanical>…I have a surely disk trucker with a really nice “classical Shimano” group - Ultegra on the front with Mech disk brakes/a triple and XT in the rear for the cassette and derailer. I Use this bike for everything, from going to the store and short triathlons and 3 day tours….however it is aging and I really need a new group. I am planning on a real 1500 bike tour next summer and wondering What is my peak mechanical play??????? I am thinking I just go with full GRX but I will so miss my triple and as a 50 something rider I need tall bars and at least 17 or 18 Gear inches in the lows……. Where is my simple, strong, modern and even expensive Group set?????
Thank you for the video! That really helped me. I have a stupid question: Shimano says the GRX 400 derailleur can work with cassettes up to 36 tooth. So if I had a full GRX bike I can simply buy a Deore cassette with 42 teeth and everything will be fine?
Russ, cool video and I have learned a lot from your stuff. Question: Did you also test the Tiagra 10 speed rear derailleur with this set up? I have the Tiagra 10 speed groupset on my Cross bike and about a year ago a upgraded the rear cassette from the original 11 x 34 to the same Deore 11 x 42 cassette that you are using. With some B-screw tricks, it runs fine and I achieved that added range I wanted.
When my old Tiagra rear derailleur died I found out about the different pull ratio of the newer Tiagra and why I couldn’t easily replace the derailleur. Thankfully my local bike shop had an old 10 speed Ultegra derailleur that they fitted. Good upgrade!
I've been using 4700 shifters with a grx 400 front and rear derailleur since grx came out. At the time it was the only option if you didn't want hydro brakes and the small chainrings in the front. Works flawless after all these years. Only thing to keep in mind is that the 4700 is an "orphan" group set. A 10 SPD with 11 SPD pull. When the brifters will eventually break I will just use 105/5800 or 7000. Exactly the same.
Love the channel. I have a question. I bought a Surly Midnight special a few years ago and love it. I had to give up mtb biking due to a blood clotting disorder where I have to be on blood thinners for the rest of my life. Anyway, I'm focused on gravel riding. My goal is to do a century ride someday. I've been told that my MS is too big. The seat post is only 1.5" from the frame to the seat connecter. I have about 1K to spend. I was wondering what would be the better upgrade for performance/comfort of the bike? Should I buy a smaller frame and just switch over the parts or upgrade my components. I'm 56 y/o and ride 20-25-mile rides fairly easy at least twice a week. Would love your thoughts.
Got my wife a 11-40 with 46-30 GRX setup by mixing 1x and 2x GRX Parts. Works reliable. As said chain length needs attention. Also shifting is not as good as staying in Shimano recommend territory.
I am running GRX 810 rear with 11-42 and GRX front with 48/30 with Ultegra ST 8000 levers. Not absolutely pushing the limits but works great and very reliable.
I have a friend doing a very similar gearing except on grx 815di2. I tried doing the same exact setup on my revolt (also di2) but it didn't work because my BB distance to the rear hangar was much longer compared to her small bike frame. At least it didn't work without a hangar extender. For the most part GRX is compatible with very wide cassettes. Just need to fiddle with it a bit.
Great video! 1 question: would the GRX 400 RD work equally well when using a Tiagra FC-4700 50/34t crankset along with an 11-40t 10spd cassette? I'm hoping that the larger rings on the 50/34 would not make any difference to the GRX 400 RD (as compared to a 46/30t or 40/24). Buying these bike parts would be a big investment on my small budget. Thanks for any info.
Awesome video as always! I wonder if a 10 speed bar end shifter in index mode, like Microshift BS-T10B would work as well, in your GRX800 setup ( emphasizing the index mode) ?
@@PathLessPedaledTVI’ll try it and let you know. I am hoping to make my current setup a bit less mullet-ish! Currently I have a 3x9 setup on my long distance touring setup: 44/32/22 FC w/ 11-40 cassette which w/ my current tire size gives me a 15-110 Gear Inch. It works fine but the chain is very loose in small & small gear combo ( 22 & 11 ). - Dura Ace 9 speed end bar shifter using it in index mode. -Sun Race, CSM980, 9sp. 11-40T -RD Deore RD-M591 SGS - Wolftooth road link
One thing I might say about the electronic drive terrains, is that I think the software could be made to make the movement virtually continuous (like friction) or indexed to the settings of the rider. Not arguing that it is a good solution, just that the technology is not inherently more limited, rather it is commercially limited.
I have only 2 bikes. A Rambouillet with vintage DuraAce 52/39 crankset, some SunTour FD. In the rear 10 speed 14-28 cassette shifted with Shimano XT RD. Shifters are bar end Rivendell Silver 1st gen. Other bike is a Saluki. In the front 46/30 with vintage SunTour FD. In the rear 13-34 7 speed shifted by Shimano LX. Just upgraded from 8 speed! Bar ends again, this time Simplex RetroFriction. Both rear derailleurs are low normal as God intended.
While I know Russ prefers brifters and so for him the problem to solve is getting the right brifter to drive a wide-range rear mech, I think there is also an inverse problem for flat bar folks like me: Getting bar shifters to drive a wide-range 2x front mech! Seems most MTB 2x FDs only support a 10 tooth max jump, which makes one think about using a road FD for the larger jump, but bar shifters don't play nice with road FDs. Maybe there is simply a wide range MTB 2x FD out there I haven't heard about?
Tiagra 4700 came out years after the higher specs switched to 11. Actually it was launched after 105 switched to 11s. We’ve been installing R7000 derailleurs w 4700 shifters since 2019
@pathlesspedaledtv - Russ, I'm curious if you've encountered any issues with the front knuckle of any of the RDs bumping into the Fog Cutter's modular dropout? I'd tried to set up a 46-30/11-36 double on my FC using a Sensah SRX Pro RD and Empire shifters and FD, and if I loosened the B-screw enough to shift into the 11, that front knuckle would hit the dropout. I wound up giving up on that and am currently running Ltwoo GRT Hydraulic with a 10-51 SLX cassette with a 36T chainring.
Fun fact: The complete gear ratio of the bike used here is faster downhill than roadbikes with 9-speed cassettes around 20 years ago. When assuming the much wider and bigger gravel tires (2inches/50-622/700x50c) the complete ratio of 46-11 is faster than the 52-12 that was used on roadbikes with triple chainrings, 9 speed cassette and 700x25c tires. Even when upgrading the old roadbike with wider cyclocross tires the gear ratio is still slower than a modern gravel bike with 46-11. The width of a modern gravel tire makes a huge difference. For every inch (25mm) the tire gets wider (and therefore a little bit larger in diameter) we need to downsize the front chainrings by around 3 or 4 teeth. :-)
actually the timeframe of Tiagra is not entirely correct… there was a „old shimano“ tiagra (4600 Series) system available… only when 11 speed road components were released with „new Shimano“ Dura Ace, Ultrgra and 105 got 11 speeds but 4700 Tiagra got the same cable pull but remained 10 speed to differenciate from their big brothers….
I use tiagra front shifter, FD, and double crankset with all drive trains. I’ve mixed it with 105-ultegra and even dura ace 11 speed rear parts. Hydraulic or cable pull. The levers are very similar in size and shape depending on the generation.
I was wondering!!! Match one brifter to its correct fd, match other brifter (10vs 11sp) to its correct rd, the two brifters don’t have to be the same. Question I have is: the grx 400 and grx 600 cranksets, are they the same?? If not, what’s the difference? I have grx 400 and want to know what it will take to get 11 speed rear. Sounds like I can go with right/ rd grx 600 or 800 brifter, 600/800 series rd and 11 speed cassette
@@OutThere42 in my experience the crankset also has to be the same as the FD and shifter or the spacing between the rings will be off and the chain will rub. 10 speed cranks work with 11 speed chains.
@@urobos1 so to upgrade my GRX 400 group set to 11 speed, I need the 11 speed brifter, 11 speed rd , 11 speed chain, and 11 speed cassette. I have a new Ultegra 11sp cassette for a previous bike that I since sold. The brifter is what’s most expensive but 105 works.
When are you going to review that classic crankset you showed off on Instagram? Also, since your in Europe maybe you could review cyber cranks made in Germany. Also, cyber cranks makes a great fork for 90s mtbs.
On my lightweight tourer, I'm still rocking a triple (50, 34, 26) crankset with an 9 spd 11-34 cassette. I boggle at those who insist on a 1X drivetrain mated to a pizza sized cassette. This strikes me as form following style than function--at great expense. Everything comes around and I suspect I'll still be pedalling my '90's drivetrain when the next-big-thing in contemporary cycling will again be multi-ring cranks.
So I am currently running grx 810 crank with 28/46 and 10-45. Currently with xt 2x 12 speed rd and an 11 speed 3x xt fd, and slx 12 speed flat bar shifters. It is in depserate need of a trim function but other wise it works great. When i can afford it, my bike will don some drop bars. I am on the fence as to which derailluers will eventually be a permenant feature. Im probably gonna go grx 12 speed di2 with hanger extender and oversize jockey wheels. But may consider mechanical. How would you rate the sride compared to grx mechanical? Is there any chance you would be willing to check if the cage of the sride is compatible with shimano derailluers? Woud much prefer huge cage to hanger extender.
@@PathLessPedaledTV I'm not sure if I'm wanting something that is not possible. I want the low granny gears, and still get the high road speeds as well. That's why I was considering the triple.
Russ thanks for The effort you out in your viideos. I’m riding a Kona Sutra 2020 with tiagra 4700 3x10, 46-36-26 front and 11-34 rear. I’m looking for lower gears and more offroad capability. No chance to fit a grx groupset because of The 73mm BB. Any advice from you would be very welcome. Thanks.
I've been looking at building a commuter bike and use something like all this. What would be really great if someone had a spreadsheet or database system with all the possible combinations mapped out. I'd be happy to help build that but I don't have the information of what works with what. Has anyone built something like this? A MASTER COMPATIBILITY system/chart? One that combines brands and systems?
Is cross-chaining a potential drawback for a 2x w over 600% range? It seems like big/small & small/big would be only used on extremely steep climbs or descents. Then the rest of the time during a typical cruising speed the chain would be approaching big/big or small/small. With my 1x I feel like I can select a chainring that keeps my chainline pretty straight at my average speed (party pace!)
I don't ever use the extreme combos small/small & big/big combos in 2x. If you're actually using your lowest gears 2x is better because of better chainline in the lowest gear. With 1x you're essentially cross chained at either far end of the cassette. If you use the lowest gear it applies a lot of torque as well as opening up the chain plates to lots of debris. 1x chains tend to wear laterally a lot quicker than 2x because of this.
I’m confused as to why you don’t think you can mix and match with di2. I run 2x ultegra 11 speed shifters with a grx817 rear derailleur, also have used big cassettes with medium cages, just need to adjust that B screw baby!!
So the front derailleur gives mechanical advantage difficult to get with a rear derailleur alone. The front derailleur changes the riders torque before it gets to the rear derailleur. Could the same thing be done after the rear derailleur? When I was a kid I had a used Montgomery Wards bike with a Sturmey-Archer hub giving me 3 speeds. Maybe somebody already has a rear derailleur with many cogs and a shifting hub. It seems like a viable replacement for the beloved front derailleur. It's just a thought.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Thanks - The more I learn about high end expensive bicycles, the more I become satisfied with my old rim brake bike with front derailleur. Today you taught that the old rear derailleur on my bike matches the standard set by Shimano for many years.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Don't forget Classified's 2x rear hub take on this, seems to work well, but it uses a proprietary cassette, which is a non-starter for me.
I've got tiagra 4700 shifters, grx-46/30 crankset, grx400 derailleur, Shimano cues 11-39 cassette. But even with 11 to 39, if I'm in big/big the derailleur is pulled way forward towards the front of the bike, not almost vertical like yours. I would never be in that combination intentionally. But this made me think that the derailer probably couldn't handle any bigger cassette in the back. But maybe I just need a longer chain? So far I'm happy with the 11-39 but it's cool to know that I could even go a little bigger if I wanted.
I'm running the legacy Microshift XLE brifters with 11sp XT rear derailleur. I also run 2x with GRX 800 crank and front derailleur, which shift with friction bar ends (love it!). I run two different wheelsets- 650B with WTB Horizons in 47mm and 11-46cassette for touring and 700C WTB Byways in 44mm with 11-40 cassette for everything else. I also wanted cable actuated disc brakes so I run TRP HY-RD. This combo has worked for me long before GRX was offered. Can't see a need to switch from XT to GRX. Is there an advantage?
Can you make a deeper video on how you make the 11-42 cassette work with a GRX810? I tried on my gf's Salsa Vaya (11 speed) and I had to use all of the b screw and... it was definitely clunky. Could it be that the grx810 has an easier time with the 11-42 10speed than the 11sp cassette? Also, a written version of these experiments would be awesome. It's hard to come back to a specific video to try to find the info...
Are you sure you have an 810? Did you change the chain length? I literally just bolted it on like any other rear derailleur (with a new chain) on 3 different bikes. What are your front chainrings?
Thanks Russ! Great video 💕 this whole series. Are you using a 10spd or 11spd chain with the 810? I'm running the same 10spd deore 11-42 with the cues 8020 and a 10spd chain on a Bombora, barrel adjuster doesn't play nice with frame and prevents rear fenders and easy wheel removal. Hoping the 810 might be a better option @@PathLessPedaledTV
I can’t find anything about the S-Ride 508C derailleur anywhere. Is it out yet? In the video there is a S-Ride RD-M520C derailleur shown, so was 508C just a typo?
So to be clear you'd need the Tiagra brifters with the GRX 810 derailleur and Deore M4100 11-42 10x cassette? Not GRX brifter + derailleur and only changing out the cassette?
If your brifters are GRX 400, then simply swap the cassette over. The M4100 11-42 10 Speed. If your brifters are GRX 600 or GRX 800, then they are 11 Speed and in that case, swap in the M5100 11-42, which is 11 Speed. You don't need to change the brifters on your GRX setup. Just change out the cassette.
You know what they say about opinions! Gearing has been developed over many years. There isn't one better than the other. Folks pick what works best for them ...Not very complicated!
So if I heard correctly "new Shimano" and Dynasis are the same pull ratio? And that ratio includes Cues. So Shimano (and the two other rear derailleur brands mentioned) all are using that pull ratio. That seems to be the direction things are going and Tiagra just arrived early to that standard. I initially thought Shimano wanted to create an upgrade path for a 10sp buyer to go 11sp with only one (large $) purchase - just the shifters.
Still don't understand the hatred of 1x. Sure, if you're doing heavily loaded bikepacking or climbing a lot of 15+% hills, yeah, 2x is better. But if you're not doing either of those things, 1x with a 11-46 out back and 42 up front will give you enough range to climb pretty much any hill under 15% and enough high end to hit nearly 60km/h without spinning out. Maybe the jumps between gears are a bit bigger, but a) I don't find it to be a major issue and b) not having to deal with a front derailleur makes it worth it to me.
Wha? I carry 20 to 30lbs of fishing, painting and filming gear over mountains all the time. Grades here hit over 20% in the hills. I advocate for 2x because since the overratedness of 1x, 2x components have become harder to find. Try looking for a 40 or 42 aftermarket ring with shift ramps. Its nearly impossible to find. The same goes with front derailleurs. The bike industry is filled with lemmings and there needs to be atleast one voice proposing a counter narrative.
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Here is a link to the S-Ride 520C/ 580C mentioned in the video: www.somafabshop.com/shop/590839-s-ride-rear-derailleur-overlength-cage-11sp-black-rd-m520c-gravel-5794?search=s-ride#attr=
That somafabshop looks weird..... any EU store, by chance ?
@@cthulpiss Its fine. I order stuff there all the time. Their ecommerce site isn't the best since they are mostly a distributor. No EU presence that I'm aware of.
@@cthulpiss Somafab is as legit as it gets.
Fun fact: Tiagra 4700 came out after 105 become the 3rd groupset to get the 11 speed treatment. Shimano at the time was updating groupsets at a rate of once per year, so 11 speed and the new pull ratio was already several years old. Then, Tiagra was unique in that the GS rear derailleurs had more tooth capacity (41 vs 37) and higher rater max cog size (34 vs 32) versus the top 3 tiers of road groupset. When building a bike in 2015, I chose to a Tiagra 4700 RD with 105 5800 shifters to permit an 18t jump on the cranks (44/26) and 11-34 cassette.
We all know that he promotes friction shifting on the channel, but this video isn’t for the friction shifters. It’s for the people out there who want the clicky clicky!
The sride is amazing
Just wait until he gets his growtacs installed.
Went back to front triple last month. Liking it a lot. Friction shifting works fine for me
I have bar end friction for the front derailleur with a 22-33-44 triple and Shimano 105 10 speed shirters, 12-32 SRAM cassette, and mechanical 4 pot cable brakes. The bar end on the left was needed due to wrist injury and is still there despite my wrist healing. This option would work for hydraulic brakes too as the left lever is not involved in shifting.
@@peterthe46er Friction or Old ergos, by far the best way to shift the FD on a triple.
I grew up with trigger shifters and grip shifts and all I use these days are friction shifters. To me, theres no real “performance” improvement and all the finicky issues with set up and maintenance. Set the limit screws and call it a day
I’m a fan of triple chainrings but friction ain’t for me no more. I also have a couple sports cars and drive automatics, albeit with paddle shifters; all shifting I need. In fact half my reason for a triple is to just quickly switch from a large 52 to 42 and leave cassette alone where it is. 👍✌️
3x9 here, wide range on the chain rings. Old guy living in hilly country. Genevalle friction/brake shifters. Totally friction friction for the chainrings and "clicky friction" for the rear end. I'm using about 23 of the 27 possible shift combos. I'm thinking of going 2x11 Cuse using my friction shifters. I need to check out the shifting sequence among other things. .
I have been using an 11 speed 105 R7000 shifters paired with both GRX 10 speed front and rear derailleur on an XT 11 speed 11-40 cassette. Crankset is a GRX 46/30 chainrings. 1 year+ later, absolutely zero problems.
Your setup is something I'd like to try. It works even though the GRX 10 speed rear derailleur is officially maxed out at a 36T cassette?
@@rankin90049 yup... 10 speed 11-36 cassette works fine. But i am running an 11 speed 11-40 cassette and so far, no problems. Shifts great. Loving the granny bailout gear. Need those sometimes when the climbing gets rough...
105 11 speed R7000 shifters with the 105 R7000 RD, 11-40 cassette works fine also.
Just find your crank preference
@@rankin90049 I use GRX 400 Rd with 10 speed Tiagra STIs and 11-40 Sunrace cassette. Absolutely no problem whatsoever.
@@James.Gornell you are right, I just prefer the clutch on the GRX RD...
Well researched, well presented, thanks for sharing this info with nerds like me! I’m an old guy, 69 years young, road cyclist since I was 14. I’m still racking up 5K miles per year, and I need a wide gear range to accommodate my “need-for-speed” and cope with the mountains in my west Texas home.
I just finished adapting my Shimano 105 triple-10spd (5600) to meet those needs, by using a 9spd XTR M971 rear derailleur and 10spd, 11-36t Deore XT M771 cassette. Combining these parts with my 3x10, 105 shifters and 50/39/30t 105 crank set, I have a 545% gear range. Low/low ratio is 1.2:1 (~22.2 gear inches with 28x700c tires), while high/high is 0.22:1 (~121.3 gear inches). The XTR M971 is meant to be used with up to 34t cassettes, it clears the 36t with the B-screw turned almost all the way in. Shifts are crisp, and the driveline is supremely quiet with a fresh CN-6701 Ultegra chain.
I can already envision an 11-speed (maybe even 12-speed), 2 chainring setup, using some combination of the components you discussed in this video. I’m glad you tried the “Tanpan” adapter, I’ve had my eye on those for a while now. Thanks again for making this video, I’m now a subscriber and fan of your channel, looking forward to seeing more of your content.😃❤
I'm so appreciative of the work you put in to provide us with practical information. And very timely too.
I've been looking st new bikes. Love the GRX 600 jydro brskes but I've been wondering about a Tiagra and GRX 400 fitted bikes.
Most of my bikes remain friction shifted.
The New Shimano road pull ratio was introduced when Dura-Ace 9000 went 11-speed in 2012, a whole three years before Tiagra 4700 dropped in 2015, Ultegra (6800) and 105 (5800) followed in 2013 and 2014, respectively. Tiagra 4600 was already 10-speed but still 1.7 ratio. Sora never jumped to 10-speed and is still 1.7 and 9-speed as of R3000, with all the compatibility to other 9-speed rear derailleurs. Also 8-speed Dura-Ace had its own thing entirely, incompatible with the rest of Shimano's offering.
Hey! We do know why Shimano changed the cable pull on Tiagra 4700. The OG cable pull required more frequent RD adjustment at 10 speeds vs 9. It tended to shift rough or miss shift unless it was adjusted just right. That's why Shimano updated the cable pull for their 11 speed drivetrains and also why Tiagra got it as a trickle down.
Loving the peak mechanical series.
Yep. They even released a different Tiagra 10sp, 4600. The looser tolerances of Tiagra combined with the older pull ratio results in such poor shifting that they changed it.
This is dynamite information sir. Love from a touring cyclist currently weighing up a new drive chain. PS Pro budget tip...get Sensah Quantum 10 speed shifters instead of pricier Tiagra ones ...great quality and fully Tiagra 4700 compatible.
I"ve been running T4700 shifters with 11-speed derailleurs for a few years now and it has been the most reliable setup I've used. Great video.
cues content is always a good reminder to stock up on shimano 9 speed parts
Same applies to 10s, they're killing it too
Happy patreon here. I love this peak mechanical content. It’s inspired me to run MS Sword brifters, 46x30 crank and Cues 8020 with HG 11x42 ten speed and it’s fantastic. Will likely adjust to 44x28 to get that sub 20inch winch gear.
Thanks for the depth and breadth of experimentation with mechanical drivetrains; no doubt, there is a lot of effort required to set up and ride each iteration!
And now I've seen the Wolftooth "tanban" device in use in real life
Always useful and entertaining info. Thanks Russ.
Any chance you can do a list of those components you mentioned and put them in the video description? Happy to buy it through a webstore where you have affiliated links. Just makes it easier to follow. Thanks for your help.
Surly MS custom build here with full GRX 810 except GRX 600 crank 30x46 and XT 11spd cassette 10-40. Love it!
This is why I love you Russ. Sheldon Brown would be proud.
Thanks for this video! I have a 2x 10 speed gravel bike with a Frankenstein drive train that will eventually need new shifters and your research helps a lot!
Russ, I got a bit lost during the initial explanation and want to make sure I am getting this right. Is the main point that the 11 speed GRX derailleur can handle an 11-42 cassette? That seems to be the key to allow for a big 2x gear range? I am having trouble understanding how the 10 speed Tiagra levers are relevant as it sounds like the key is using a large cassette in a 2x setup. Thanks for taking the time to make this video.
My peak mechanical is 42/28 x 11-40. Tiagra 4600 flat bar shifters, Altus rear mech, microshift road front mech, no adapters or converters needed, less than $100 for all 3 new.
Are you using the Altus M310 rear mech?
Can you list all products?
@@atomicyema yes
@@SchwappSchwopp Altus m310, microshift fd-r712, tiagra 3600 flat bar shifter, sunrace 11-40, crank arms are shimano mtb triple 110/74 bcd, I’m using a sunrace friction shifter for the front currently bc it’s easier to keep the chain from rubbing the front derailleur
I’ve just been bike packing / touring the Scottish North Coat 500 fully loaded. It was hilly but nothing crazy steep (like the 30% gradients in the North York Moors). I’m running an Uno bar end shifter on my gravel bike with 36t upfront and Deore 11 - 46 10 speed at the rear. No issues whatsoever 👍. Going forward I might change to Deore 10 - 51 12 speed. Just need to swap the Hope freehub to microspline.
Always admire your work,the time to experiment its really interesting, greetings
I just got a NOS Shimano Deore XT 3x10 group fitted to one of my bikes, that group is amazing. I'm using it on a 1995 stump jumper.
for 4 yrs been running tiagra 10spd brifters with grx 400 rd 11-42 and 50-34 105 crank. my kona jake goes anywhere. for 2yrs running force 22 11spd brifters with senah srx pro rd 11-51 cassette, force 22 1x crank 40t no preload adjuster to fit 73 bb shell on mtb frame. works great!! drop bar mtbs are so much fun!!
Thanks!
Great video I have been running the tiagra 4700 with the rx400 for a few months now on alpine gravel roads and it's been flawless. Is there any real improvement to switch to the rx800?
I address that in the video. Larger pulley wheel has marginally better chain wrap capacity.
Thanks for the reply 😊 I heard your comments in the video, but as you gave them both 10/10, it's hard to know if there's any real value in the more expensive option. I'm always seeking the best experience for my limited budget to avoid all the industry gimmicks.
Amazing video !
I so needed this on a hilly gravel sportive I did last week lol. I have a Tiagra 4700 groupset on my bike with 46/34 front and 11-36 rear. The Tiagra rear mech just about supports that range (and maybe could be squeezed a little further) but it's a stretch. I was really wishing I had some lower gears.
That S-Ride rear derailleur looked interesting. Crazy range too. I know the weight difference between all of these derailleurs are negligible, but aren't the CUES ders very heavy? Wonder if the S-Ride one is quite a bit lighter? It looks much more svelte compared to CUES.
SRide is light at 260g.
This is a very timely video for me as I'm planning out how to setup my new Lynskey GR300 frameset with the parts from my road bike that its replacing. Currently its a mishmash of 5800 and R7000 11s stuff but since my new frameset is disc brake, I'm moving over to hydraulic GRX levers and need to plan out what goes and what stays so that I still have a functional bike to sell in my road bike. Sounds like I may actually be setup quite well for the conversion, just needed to figure out how to get a larger 11-40 or 11-42 cassette on there to give me climbing gears with the 50/34 crankset. This video really helps even if my plans aren't fully cable-mechanical.
My setup is the grx 400 rd with an 11-36 cassette 10sp and up front the grx 8xx series 48-31 crankset. I also upgraded the jockey/pulley wheels to the 8xx series, so the bottom wheel is 13t, not 11t. Shifting at the rear is fine. This setup allows me a good range of gears both on and off road. However, as I ride less off-road, I might reduce the cassette to 11-34 and increase the crankset to 50-34. This will still give me a 1:1 ratio but also minimise the jumps in between.
thats a much wider range of gears than i actually need. for my new bike, i went with a 1x10 Sword setup, 40x 11/48. has all the gears i need. i used to run 2 chainrings, but when i was being honest with myself, i never used the big ring. in my new setup, i use almost all the gears, very simple, works well for me
So nice, 10-64 Cassette, that is the Sram Family Pizza.....:)
Thanks Russ. Amazing video.
Excellent work as always! What BB are you running with the Sword crankset?
Basic shimano HTii
I'm considering updating my wife's and my older road bikes to a Tiagra 4703 triple with the 11-34 and get the 165 mm crank. My bike is using the older Ultegra 6600 with 172.5 cranks, 53/39, 12-27 cassette. My wife's bike is an 2012 Gary Fisher WSD with the 105, 50/34 and 12-27 but with 170 mm cranks. Since we're older and plan to keep our forever bikes but upgrade the mechanicals before they're not available anymore and gearing to suit us as we get older. The Tiagra triple is our hack at getting a wider gear range without the 1x plus I'll say it, gives a better chain line throughout the cassette.
Thanks! Now I'm going to see if Babbel so has Shimano
My 2022 Cube nuroad pro came with grx400 RD with these Tiagra shifters and mechanical disc brakes.
Hah, I turned my Cube CX bike (full Tiagra) into that!
So much great Info! Love this video mate
New bicycles are quickly getting away from being the simple efficient machines they once were. Call me a Luddite but all this electronic and hydro junk is so over complicated and without reason. Give me that solid as a rock 1980s Campy! Actually around year 2000 plus or minus, bikes peeked with 9 speed Shimano. Road, mountain, everything worked together, unlimited gear inches, simple to work on, thank goodness for eb@y keeping all the good stuff available!
As Always I love your content and appreciate you keeping it real and testing it off the stand…I am in a real pickle with my current ride and I have been eating up Peak Mechanical>…I have a surely disk trucker with a really nice “classical Shimano” group - Ultegra on the front with Mech disk brakes/a triple and XT in the rear for the cassette and derailer. I Use this bike for everything, from going to the store and short triathlons and 3 day tours….however it is aging and I really need a new group. I am planning on a real 1500 bike tour next summer and wondering What is my peak mechanical play??????? I am thinking I just go with full GRX but I will so miss my triple and as a 50 something rider I need tall bars and at least 17 or 18 Gear inches in the lows……. Where is my simple, strong, modern and even expensive Group set?????
Thank you for the video! That really helped me. I have a stupid question: Shimano says the GRX 400 derailleur can work with cassettes up to 36 tooth. So if I had a full GRX bike I can simply buy a Deore cassette with 42 teeth and everything will be fine?
you’ll need a longer chain as well
@@PathLessPedaledTV that makes sense as well 😃 thank you for your help!
Russ, cool video and I have learned a lot from your stuff. Question: Did you also test the Tiagra 10 speed rear derailleur with this set up? I have the Tiagra 10 speed groupset on my Cross bike and about a year ago a upgraded the rear cassette from the original 11 x 34 to the same Deore 11 x 42 cassette that you are using. With some B-screw tricks, it runs fine and I achieved that added range I wanted.
No.
When my old Tiagra rear derailleur died I found out about the different pull ratio of the newer Tiagra and why I couldn’t easily replace the derailleur. Thankfully my local bike shop had an old 10 speed Ultegra derailleur that they fitted. Good upgrade!
I've been using 4700 shifters with a grx 400 front and rear derailleur since grx came out. At the time it was the only option if you didn't want hydro brakes and the small chainrings in the front. Works flawless after all these years.
Only thing to keep in mind is that the 4700 is an "orphan" group set. A 10 SPD with 11 SPD pull.
When the brifters will eventually break I will just use 105/5800 or 7000. Exactly the same.
can i use the 105 R7000 brifters on grx 400 rd + 10spd cassette? or not doable
Great survey of derailleurs!
Love the channel. I have a question. I bought a Surly Midnight special a few years ago and love it. I had to give up mtb biking due to a blood clotting disorder where I have to be on blood thinners for the rest of my life. Anyway, I'm focused on gravel riding. My goal is to do a century ride someday. I've been told that my MS is too big. The seat post is only 1.5" from the frame to the seat connecter. I have about 1K to spend. I was wondering what would be the better upgrade for performance/comfort of the bike? Should I buy a smaller frame and just switch over the parts or upgrade my components. I'm 56 y/o and ride 20-25-mile rides fairly easy at least twice a week. Would love your thoughts.
Fit first. Would definitely consider a different frame. Components don't matter if you 're uncomfortable on the bike.
Got my wife a 11-40 with 46-30 GRX setup by mixing 1x and 2x GRX Parts. Works reliable. As said chain length needs attention. Also shifting is not as good as staying in Shimano recommend territory.
Awesome video! Are you using an 10 or 11 speed chain?
11
I am running GRX 810 rear with 11-42 and GRX front with 48/30 with Ultegra ST 8000 levers. Not absolutely pushing the limits but works great and very reliable.
I have a friend doing a very similar gearing except on grx 815di2. I tried doing the same exact setup on my revolt (also di2) but it didn't work because my BB distance to the rear hangar was much longer compared to her small bike frame. At least it didn't work without a hangar extender. For the most part GRX is compatible with very wide cassettes. Just need to fiddle with it a bit.
Great video! 1 question: would the GRX 400 RD work equally well when using a Tiagra FC-4700 50/34t crankset along with an 11-40t 10spd cassette? I'm hoping that the larger rings on the 50/34 would not make any difference to the GRX 400 RD (as compared to a 46/30t or 40/24). Buying these bike parts would be a big investment on my small budget. Thanks for any info.
Awesome video as always! I wonder if a 10 speed bar end shifter in index mode, like Microshift BS-T10B would work as well, in your GRX800 setup ( emphasizing the index mode) ?
If their documentation online is correct it should.
@@PathLessPedaledTVI’ll try it and let you know. I am hoping to make my current setup a bit less mullet-ish!
Currently I have a 3x9 setup on my long distance touring setup:
44/32/22 FC w/ 11-40 cassette which w/ my current tire size gives me a 15-110 Gear Inch. It works fine but the chain is very loose in small & small gear combo ( 22 & 11 ).
- Dura Ace 9 speed end bar shifter using it in index mode.
-Sun Race, CSM980, 9sp. 11-40T
-RD Deore RD-M591 SGS
- Wolftooth road link
One thing I might say about the electronic drive terrains, is that I think the software could be made to make the movement virtually continuous (like friction) or indexed to the settings of the rider. Not arguing that it is a good solution, just that the technology is not inherently more limited, rather it is commercially limited.
"Could" and will are different. Highly unlikely something SRAM or Shimano would ever do since they like their walled gardens.
I have only 2 bikes. A Rambouillet with vintage DuraAce 52/39 crankset, some SunTour FD. In the rear 10 speed 14-28 cassette shifted with Shimano XT RD. Shifters are bar end Rivendell Silver 1st gen. Other bike is a Saluki. In the front 46/30 with vintage SunTour FD. In the rear 13-34 7 speed shifted by Shimano LX. Just upgraded from 8 speed! Bar ends again, this time Simplex RetroFriction. Both rear derailleurs are low normal as God intended.
great stuff Russ
Can´t wait for a video about the Panorama Boreal. When do you think you gonna release it? Thx
While I know Russ prefers brifters and so for him the problem to solve is getting the right brifter to drive a wide-range rear mech, I think there is also an inverse problem for flat bar folks like me: Getting bar shifters to drive a wide-range 2x front mech! Seems most MTB 2x FDs only support a 10 tooth max jump, which makes one think about using a road FD for the larger jump, but bar shifters don't play nice with road FDs. Maybe there is simply a wide range MTB 2x FD out there I haven't heard about?
Tiagra 4700 came out years after the higher specs switched to 11. Actually it was launched after 105 switched to 11s. We’ve been installing R7000 derailleurs w 4700 shifters since 2019
Care to tell us more about that Fog Cutter? RH tires on 650b wheels?
Russ. How about looking into bicycle touring (with panniers) using ebikes. And which ebikes are suitable? i am asking about class 1 bikes.
@pathlesspedaledtv - Russ, I'm curious if you've encountered any issues with the front knuckle of any of the RDs bumping into the Fog Cutter's modular dropout? I'd tried to set up a 46-30/11-36 double on my FC using a Sensah SRX Pro RD and Empire shifters and FD, and if I loosened the B-screw enough to shift into the 11, that front knuckle would hit the dropout. I wound up giving up on that and am currently running Ltwoo GRT Hydraulic with a 10-51 SLX cassette with a 36T chainring.
Yes. It only happens in small-small (and only with some derailleurs) which I just avoid with shift discipline.
Fun fact: The complete gear ratio of the bike used here is faster downhill than roadbikes with 9-speed cassettes around 20 years ago. When assuming the much wider and bigger gravel tires (2inches/50-622/700x50c) the complete ratio of 46-11 is faster than the 52-12 that was used on roadbikes with triple chainrings, 9 speed cassette and 700x25c tires. Even when upgrading the old roadbike with wider cyclocross tires the gear ratio is still slower than a modern gravel bike with 46-11. The width of a modern gravel tire makes a huge difference. For every inch (25mm) the tire gets wider (and therefore a little bit larger in diameter) we need to downsize the front chainrings by around 3 or 4 teeth. :-)
actually the timeframe of Tiagra is not entirely correct… there was a „old shimano“ tiagra (4600 Series) system available… only when 11 speed road components were released with „new Shimano“ Dura Ace, Ultrgra and 105 got 11 speeds but 4700 Tiagra got the same cable pull but remained 10 speed to differenciate from their big brothers….
I use tiagra front shifter, FD, and double crankset with all drive trains. I’ve mixed it with 105-ultegra and even dura ace 11 speed rear parts. Hydraulic or cable pull. The levers are very similar in size and shape depending on the generation.
I was wondering!!! Match one brifter to its correct fd, match other brifter (10vs 11sp) to its correct rd, the two brifters don’t have to be the same. Question I have is: the grx 400 and grx 600 cranksets, are they the same?? If not, what’s the difference? I have grx 400 and want to know what it will take to get 11 speed rear. Sounds like I can go with right/ rd grx 600 or 800 brifter, 600/800 series rd and 11 speed cassette
@@OutThere42 in my experience the crankset also has to be the same as the FD and shifter or the spacing between the rings will be off and the chain will rub. 10 speed cranks work with 11 speed chains.
@@urobos1 so to upgrade my GRX 400 group set to 11 speed, I need the 11 speed brifter, 11 speed rd , 11 speed chain, and 11 speed cassette. I have a new Ultegra 11sp cassette for a previous bike that I since sold. The brifter is what’s most expensive but 105 works.
@@OutThere42 Yes, just make sure you get the right length cage in the RD for the big cogs in the cassette. Like a long cage for 34 teeth…
When are you going to review that classic crankset you showed off on Instagram? Also, since your in Europe maybe you could review cyber cranks made in Germany. Also, cyber cranks makes a great fork for 90s mtbs.
On my lightweight tourer, I'm still rocking a triple (50, 34, 26) crankset with an 9 spd 11-34 cassette. I boggle at those who insist on a 1X drivetrain mated to a pizza sized cassette. This strikes me as form following style than function--at great expense. Everything comes around and I suspect I'll still be pedalling my '90's drivetrain when the next-big-thing in contemporary cycling will again be multi-ring cranks.
Have you seen the Growtac non indexing friction shifters yet? I hope you can get some to review.
I just built up a sram rival group with a Shimano Cues front cranks and BB. It's mint.
So I am currently running grx 810 crank with 28/46 and 10-45. Currently with xt 2x 12 speed rd and an 11 speed 3x xt fd, and slx 12 speed flat bar shifters. It is in depserate need of a trim function but other wise it works great. When i can afford it, my bike will don some drop bars. I am on the fence as to which derailluers will eventually be a permenant feature. Im probably gonna go grx 12 speed di2 with hanger extender and oversize jockey wheels. But may consider mechanical. How would you rate the sride compared to grx mechanical? Is there any chance you would be willing to check if the cage of the sride is compatible with shimano derailluers? Woud much prefer huge cage to hanger extender.
Russ youre my goat !!
would the microshift sword 48/31 crankset work with the first grx810 setup?
What are your thoughts on triple chain rings? I'm considering going 3X for climbing.
I've used them but prefer wide/low 2x. Why do in 3 what you can do with 2.
@@PathLessPedaledTV I'm not sure if I'm wanting something that is not possible. I want the low granny gears, and still get the high road speeds as well. That's why I was considering the triple.
Danke!
I use GRX400 RD with 105 11 speed levers driving 11 speed cassette. Works 10/10.
This is the comment I was looking, I'm planning to use my 105r700 shifters with a 11s 11-40t and the grx400rd
Love my cable pull.
Running mu gravel with flat bars using rs7000 flat shiters, grx400 rd and FD then the crank is grx600 with 11s cassette of 11-36. So far no issues
Hi Russ. Do you think the ene ciclo 10s friction shifter can pull enough cable for the grx 810?
no. Need the UNO.
@@PathLessPedaledTV i knew it! Anyway thanks for your efforts in spreading mechanical gearing knowledge!
Russ thanks for The effort you out in your viideos. I’m riding a Kona Sutra 2020 with tiagra 4700 3x10, 46-36-26 front and 11-34 rear. I’m looking for lower gears and more offroad capability. No chance to fit a grx groupset because of The 73mm BB. Any advice from you would be very welcome. Thanks.
You could try a GRX 812 rear dereailleur and bigger cassette.
thank you. I wasn’t sure about it working with a 3x as well. I will definitely try it.
I've been looking at building a commuter bike and use something like all this. What would be really great if someone had a spreadsheet or database system with all the possible combinations mapped out. I'd be happy to help build that but I don't have the information of what works with what. Has anyone built something like this? A MASTER COMPATIBILITY system/chart? One that combines brands and systems?
Is cross-chaining a potential drawback for a 2x w over 600% range? It seems like big/small & small/big would be only used on extremely steep climbs or descents. Then the rest of the time during a typical cruising speed the chain would be approaching big/big or small/small. With my 1x I feel like I can select a chainring that keeps my chainline pretty straight at my average speed (party pace!)
I don't ever use the extreme combos small/small & big/big combos in 2x. If you're actually using your lowest gears 2x is better because of better chainline in the lowest gear. With 1x you're essentially cross chained at either far end of the cassette. If you use the lowest gear it applies a lot of torque as well as opening up the chain plates to lots of debris. 1x chains tend to wear laterally a lot quicker than 2x because of this.
Hi Russ. ANy reccomendations for 11 speed 105?
All these will work with 11spd 105.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thank you sir
I’m confused as to why you don’t think you can mix and match with di2. I run 2x ultegra 11 speed shifters with a grx817 rear derailleur, also have used big cassettes with medium cages, just need to adjust that B screw baby!!
Because its peak mechanical not peak hydro/electronic.
What rims are in the SOMA? They look like Zeta, but would love to know =)
zeta Classic.
What is the front derailleur you are using with the Microshift Sword crankset and Tiagra shifters?
Microshift sword fd.
Thanks!
So the front derailleur gives mechanical advantage difficult to get with a rear derailleur alone. The front derailleur changes the riders torque before it gets to the rear derailleur. Could the same thing be done after the rear derailleur? When I was a kid I had a used Montgomery Wards bike with a Sturmey-Archer hub giving me 3 speeds. Maybe somebody already has a rear derailleur with many cogs and a shifting hub. It seems like a viable replacement for the beloved front derailleur. It's just a thought.
It's been done. SRAM Dual Drive. Its heavy, expensive and adds needless complexity for very little advantage over a front derailleur.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Thanks - The more I learn about high end expensive bicycles, the more I become satisfied with my old rim brake bike with front derailleur. Today you taught that the old rear derailleur on my bike matches the standard set by Shimano for many years.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Don't forget Classified's 2x rear hub take on this, seems to work well, but it uses a proprietary cassette, which is a non-starter for me.
I've got tiagra 4700 shifters, grx-46/30 crankset, grx400 derailleur, Shimano cues 11-39 cassette. But even with 11 to 39, if I'm in big/big the derailleur is pulled way forward towards the front of the bike, not almost vertical like yours. I would never be in that combination intentionally. But this made me think that the derailer probably couldn't handle any bigger cassette in the back. But maybe I just need a longer chain? So far I'm happy with the 11-39 but it's cool to know that I could even go a little bigger if I wanted.
Yes you need a longer chain.
I'm running the legacy Microshift XLE brifters with 11sp XT rear derailleur. I also run 2x with GRX 800 crank and front derailleur, which shift with friction bar ends (love it!). I run two different wheelsets- 650B with WTB Horizons in 47mm and 11-46cassette for touring and 700C WTB Byways in 44mm with 11-40 cassette for everything else. I also wanted cable actuated disc brakes so I run TRP HY-RD. This combo has worked for me long before GRX was offered. Can't see a need to switch from XT to GRX. Is there an advantage?
Not really.
Can you make a deeper video on how you make the 11-42 cassette work with a GRX810? I tried on my gf's Salsa Vaya (11 speed) and I had to use all of the b screw and... it was definitely clunky. Could it be that the grx810 has an easier time with the 11-42 10speed than the 11sp cassette?
Also, a written version of these experiments would be awesome. It's hard to come back to a specific video to try to find the info...
Are you sure you have an 810? Did you change the chain length? I literally just bolted it on like any other rear derailleur (with a new chain) on 3 different bikes. What are your front chainrings?
@@PathLessPedaledTV Doesn't also depend on the length of the derailleur hangar?
@@jbondra2 I guess. But I think they’re fairly standardized. Esp the Vaya. I don’t see why it would be so radically different it wouldn’t work.
Thanks Russ! Great video 💕 this whole series.
Are you using a 10spd or 11spd chain with the 810?
I'm running the same 10spd deore 11-42 with the cues 8020 and a 10spd chain on a Bombora, barrel adjuster doesn't play nice with frame and prevents rear fenders and easy wheel removal. Hoping the 810 might be a better option @@PathLessPedaledTV
@@bencollett86 11spd chain.
Legend 🤙🤙
Is the soecific goal to use 10sp? Wouldn't the mecanical 105 11sp work perfectly with grx 11?
No. I can’t find an all mechanical 11spd. Tiagra was the next best thing since it uses 11spd pull and was accessible.
SO WHAT ABOUT DEORE AND OTHER MTB DERAILIERS ?? 9-10 spd options ?? PLEASE LET US KNOW OH GREAT CABLE ONE
These videos take time and money and I'm slowly working through the speeds testing things.
I can’t find anything about the S-Ride 508C derailleur anywhere. Is it out yet?
In the video there is a S-Ride RD-M520C derailleur shown, so was 508C just a typo?
508c is the updated version of the 520C.
@@PathLessPedaledTVLooks like it’s listed as 580 on their website. It says the 580 was the 520.
I would love to see a 10-64 cassette 😂😂😂 imagine the cage length !!!
So to be clear you'd need the Tiagra brifters with the GRX 810 derailleur and Deore M4100 11-42 10x cassette? Not GRX brifter + derailleur and only changing out the cassette?
Depends if you want 10 or 11.
If your brifters are GRX 400, then simply swap the cassette over. The M4100 11-42 10 Speed. If your brifters are GRX 600 or GRX 800, then they are 11 Speed and in that case, swap in the M5100 11-42, which is 11 Speed. You don't need to change the brifters on your GRX setup. Just change out the cassette.
@@_shreyash_anand Thank you very much for this great info!
Do the Tiagra 4700 shifters have the correct or relatively decent pull ratio for the sword front derailleur?
Have had no problem with that combo.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Thanks, good to know.
You know what they say about opinions! Gearing has been developed over many years. There isn't one better than the other. Folks pick what works best for them ...Not very complicated!
So if I heard correctly "new Shimano" and Dynasis are the same pull ratio? And that ratio includes Cues.
So Shimano (and the two other rear derailleur brands mentioned) all are using that pull ratio.
That seems to be the direction things are going and Tiagra just arrived early to that standard. I initially thought Shimano wanted to create an upgrade path for a 10sp buyer to go 11sp with only one (large $) purchase - just the shifters.
No. You heard incorrectly. That is why a Tanpan is needed to translate between new Shimano and dynasis.
Still don't understand the hatred of 1x. Sure, if you're doing heavily loaded bikepacking or climbing a lot of 15+% hills, yeah, 2x is better. But if you're not doing either of those things, 1x with a 11-46 out back and 42 up front will give you enough range to climb pretty much any hill under 15% and enough high end to hit nearly 60km/h without spinning out. Maybe the jumps between gears are a bit bigger, but a) I don't find it to be a major issue and b) not having to deal with a front derailleur makes it worth it to me.
Wha? I carry 20 to 30lbs of fishing, painting and filming gear over mountains all the time. Grades here hit over 20% in the hills. I advocate for 2x because since the overratedness of 1x, 2x components have become harder to find. Try looking for a 40 or 42 aftermarket ring with shift ramps. Its nearly impossible to find. The same goes with front derailleurs. The bike industry is filled with lemmings and there needs to be atleast one voice proposing a counter narrative.