WHY I'm DITCHING 1X Drivetrains
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
- After years of trying to make 1x drivetrains work, I'm switching back to 2x.
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Ha, I never stopped using 3x.
Me too! I have a 9-speed 3X drivetrain on my touring bike and an 8-speed 3X drivetrain on my mountain bike.
It's the future! 3X was never a problem in the first place. I wouldn't use anything else now.
3x9 is probably best ever invented if you want efficient chain line, long lasting system, and good gear range all in one package, IMHO.
I’m still 3x as well, most of the time. 1x has a place, but general utility and adaptability is it.
Glad to see you’ve regained your sanity.
It's really too bad that nearly all of the QBP brands Salsa, Surly, etc with their touring focused all road bikes are now spec'ed 1X. Maybe you will help influence a return of more sensible gearing for these types of bikes.
I love 3x9. I live in mountains. Currently my “gravel bike” has 44-32-22 up front and 12-36 in the back. Works great for me.
Sounds like my 2011, Co-Motion touring bike with 3x9. :-)
The best thing about triples is even if you live in a (relatively) flat area like I do you can just sit in the middle chainring and use the other two only when you want them. Less is not more in this case, lol.
I just stripped a '97 Hardrock to the frame and rebuilt it as a flat-bar gravel bike with a rigid fork. My comfortable cadence range is quite narrow, so I like a tight cassette, but I still wanted a low (~20 gear-inches) climbing gear. Went with a Deore 42-32-22 10 speed crankset, front derailleur, and front shifter; a SRAM 12-27 10 speed cassette; an Ultegra RX (clutched) rear derailleur; and a Tiagra 4700 flat bar shifter for the back.
3x10 for me. Got a Shimano 9sp MTB Shadow derailleur in the back with 10 speed road bar ends. Silky
I was so, so happy for my 3x9 on a bike tour in eastern Washington. I had a 700' climb on 7-8% grade with 20+ mph headwinds. I put the bike in the "Don't Be a Hero Gear" and rolled up at 3-4 mph easily.
As a 75 year old geezer; I find that a triple crank with indexed bar end shifters are what keep me riding without electric assist. It is so easy to go from one end of the cassette to the other or go from big ring to tiny ring in one motion. It really isn't that hard to get the components to work together.
79 year old boy here and totally agree with you. The manufactures keep trying to re-invent the wheel. I rarely have to adjust the front derailleur but adjust the rear about every 3 months.
I'm 42 and that's why I have the same set up, but with less maintenance friction thumbies/bar end levers, I want to keep having happy knees, and I like not having to faff with my bike. I like it, anyway.
@@timothydraper3687 The reason I stick with index shifting is my hearing is shot due to three years in the artillery. I just can't hear grinding gears anymore.
@@PeterC5263 That's interesting to know, my hearing isn't what it was since I saw The Prodigy playing live, I may need to do the same thing one day.
@@timothydraper3687 I had my share of concerts as well. One of which was Woodstock, six months after I got back from Vietnam in 1969.
We who have stayed with 2x and 3x agree: more gear choices is always a good thing. Long live friction shifting!
Yes!
Just having granny gears is magic, ask any 4x4 guy what a 50s suburban can do with a real granny gear it's unbelievable
@@coreygolphenee9633 great analogy!
Just being able to drop lots os gear at once by using the front derraileur is magic when you get to a steep hill.... long live friction shifting comarades
@@coreygolphenee9633 That's part of the deal. Really strong riders have no use for real low gears. None.....so of course to them yeah the 1X is it........ Its all they need.......the thing being I'm not them,and they aren't me..........I really liked the 22/36 low gear on my last Kona XC bike.......I set it up myself that way.........having a bike racer or super strong rider like the guy who put this video out tell you what you need,and whats best.......is mildly ass nine for the average person out on his bike on a 19% grade.
I'm a DFM engineer (design for manufacturing) by trade, and I totally understand why the bike industry is moving to 1x.. Simpler frame construction, fewer returns from customers complaining about shifting and noise issues that are just from the front derailleur being adjusted incorrectly, easier to turn around repairs for shops, lower BOM count in manufacturing, fewer assembly steps, etc, etc....but none of these reasons actually make the experience of riding the bike any better if your bike is setup correctly and maintained.
Now if those cost reductions would've only made it to the consumer....
Personally, I recently installed an FD on a frame with a high direct mount. We would've needed that way sooner, the setup is so incredibly simply since all you have to do is getting the height correct and Shimano actually shipped mine with a small bracket to keep the FD from compressing together and a small sticker to dial the gap to the chain ring right. I have never setup an FD this quickly in my life. Including the cable installation I didn't spend even 10 minutes on it, a large part of wich I also wasted by oggling the FD and bike instead of actually working to install everything.
Kinda sad it didn't catch on.
Another possible reason may simply be boredom - engineers like to be doing new things, and they may simply have been curious to see whether 1X could be implemented successfully.
@@gregsullivan7408 highly unlikely. Engineers are plenty busy constantly, and no business does anything anymore out of 'boredom'. Developing products to bring to the consumer market is way too costly to just do for fun. If I was bored when I was designing, it was a sign that I overlooked something on one of my projects that was about to blow up in my face.
It's been said that engineering is like riding a bike...except the bike is on fire, and you're on fire, and everything else is on fire.
I'm a mechanical design engineer and your logic is impeccable. However you did forget to add the bike companies can reduce costs and charge extra to the customer for the 'benefits'. I just love capitalism.
@@FiveMinuteVelo Exactly, less gear but higher price because it weighs 200g less.
2X has a wider gear range, smaller jumps between gears, a lower drive resistance, lower-cost parts AND a reduced need for hacking drivetrains to get appropriately low gears.
For your use, Russ, it seems like a no-brainer (MTBs being the exception).
It's all a matter of opinion. On the other side, gear jumps don't matter much in gravel and some 12 speed cassettes have enormous gear range. You also have the simplicity of only having one shifter and having fewer things to potentially repair on the road. But again, it's all about what you value. One isn't better than the other. They each have different costs and benefits.
@@DrTomCruisin 12x is expensive and then if the front der breaks it just turns into a 1x on the small chainring :) therefore no repair is necessary. While 3x can get complicated, 2x really isn't that hard to figure out. Single speed is great but Regardless one of these options might have a wider range of functionality.
There he is! I immediately thought about what CYCLINGABOUT would opine regarding getting the necessary 17ish gear inches for touring. May a respectful debate ensure!
@@Red-ju4mi 12x doesn't need to be expensive! I did a Ratio Tech upgrade for almost nothing. I just waited until my 11 speed cassette needed to be replaced, bought a used GX derailleur, and sold my road derailleur. All told, the upgrade cost me around $100.
@@DilbertMuc This is an important distinction. Good point. That gets to why I said there are costs and benefits to both, and each is suited better for different people and different settings. One isn't "better" than the other.
I’ve tried 1x, 2x, & 3x and for the kind of riding I do I had the most fun on the 3x. Made my bike a sport utility vehicle. I felt confident that I could ride up anything.
Yep, and you could put slicks on the same bike and make use of that large chainring. It's the true one drivetrain for everything.
I think you missed some key arguments, 9 and 10 speed are cheaper, the chains are wider and the smaller cassettes are steel so overall cost and durability is better.
I still run 9 speed and don't regret it. I also have 10 and 11 speed road bikes but I don't think they improve anywhere that I ride.
@@PRH123 This is why I like friction shifting as well. You can use all sorts of different parts in a pinch. Parts that don't work together when using proprietary indexed shifters. Everything must match. EVERYTHING on modern bikes is special and proprietary.
I say boycott em all. DIY what we really want. Haha, soon 13 speeds will be a thing! I say skip that, go to fourteen.
I'm using worn out 8or 9 speed Dura Ace bar ends on friction, 9 speed XT derailleur, 10 speed cassette and a 9 speed chain because that's what I had that day. I could use any cheap derailleur if it broke, most any chain and any 6- 9 speed cassette.
If you bend your hanger, friction shifting keeps on shifting. The front shifter is fully trimmable for cross chaining.
I like 1x but having to choose between climbing and top speed is annoying
@@spitchgrizwald6198 based on what? In my experience the massive aluminium rear sprockets wear quicker and then accelerate chain wear.
@@spitchgrizwald6198 still though, what makes you think a thinner chain is more durable?
I thoroughly believe the bike industry doomed front derailleurs just by trying to index them. For doubles, I like centering the big ring with the cassette so I can still get the whole range of the cassette without cross-chaining, but have the small ring aligned with the inside-half of the cassette. You can treat it like 1x most of the time, but have the convenience of a bail-out cluster for when the going gets tough.
That's clever. I think I did this by accident on a recent build by mounting a too-short BB spindle, but it works nicely for the reasons you explained.
I’ve done the same thing on more than a few bikes. You get the use of the entire cassette off the big ring, with just the meaningful part of the cassette when things get vertical.
Well. The newer ft derailleurs and shifters index like magic every time,and have for some years now. They shift as fast and accurate as the rear shifter. Instantly. GRX especially.
I've used this method on my commuter bike for years... still just 2x8 with some tiny bailout gears. I go on many reeides without shifting the front derailleur, but it sure is nice to have on occasion.
@@bradsanders6954
i think people overstate the issue or just dont know or have the experience (or patience?) to adjust them. I have an old Giant x1000 with a grimy old acera x group set and it shifts just flawlessly, even with those horrible gripshifters.
Perfect timing. I was just about to buy a 1x drivetrain because I didn't feel cool enough with my 2x. Thanks for talking me out of it.
I converted one of my 2x bikes to a 1x and ended up putting the 2x back on for the better range - my newer bikes are all 1x but I very much like the 2x..
My Diamondback Haanjo came stock 2x. I converted to 1x last year, but then converted back over the winter.
I do like 1x on my Surly Ogre and Felt 9er hardtail.
Good choice. I like 1x for mtb, but everywhere else 2x is preferable, imo.
Don't listen to him but try it out yourself.
I was thinking of a 1x on a steel frame bike, as my aluminium frame bike got its crack (I am still lamenting it), and then, I compared the costs between a 1x and a 2x, the ratios I would have, and finally, it is only a question of time to grab the 2x version, even though one can expect less maintaining costs on the 1x. The purchase price is, in my case, higher for the 1x than with the 2x, even taking the shifters prices into account. Too bad the 3x are disappearing from the market, because though they may be more complicated to maintain, and even then, not by that much, they are darn versatile
I think it all depends on what you are riding. I personally love the simplicity of a 1x when mountain biking but when I am gravel bike packing I find exactly what you have explained and the shifting and and need for transitions are not as frequent the extended range is nice to have. I actually think the range you described with the 40 24 upfront sounds awesome. Great video!
Personally a 1x is for those with a wallet full of money and wanting to stand out from the crowd. Same as internal cable routing; marketing at a price. Simplicity at the cost of your wallet and sanity isn't why I ride in my late 50s on a muddy trail...
I’ve ridden on my 1x mtb going on 3 years now without needing a single indexing adjustment. My new Ultegra 2x needs about about 2 adjustments a year to meet my standards. 1x is without debate an easier drivetrain to maintain
@@joen3992 You miss the point, its not about wallet and show off. front actually derailleur cost more, harder to maintain, heavier. I didn't miss the 2x at all, not even you are willing pay me to change back. However it make sense for Path Less Pedaled as he is more of gravel rider than mountain biking.
@@joen3992 you forget the introduction of dropper posts. I do technical MTB riding and a dropper post is one the best invention in the MTB imo. But with the remote on the bar, there is no (or less) space for front derailleur shifters. I prefer a clean and simple cockpit. So it all depends on what and how your ride.
@@joen3992 Marketing is what got people thinking a 2X was an unnecessary complication.........all it takes is repetition with well known people selling you what they want you to buy......now guys go on about how free they feel with no front mech, or how "aero" they feel with 1X.........or how neat it looks...........FFS. Sales work can do anything.
There's another nice thing about having a front derailleur; you can drop to a lower gear on the front derailleur while still pedalling hard far better than you can using the rear, which typically demands that you reduce the pressure while the gears change. It's a small thing, but it can be useful.
Yeah true and a 3x gives more shifting range when operating that way over a 2x. I changed from a 3x10 to a 1x11 and I miss those extra gears on the front derailleur for some terrain!
One thing I noticed with a 1x11 is any dirt or banging hard in trails causes the shifting to not be so crisp and sometimes I'm tuning the derailleur more often through the year than on the 3x10. I might go back to a 3x but maybe a 3x9. My best shifting bike ever was a Shimano Deore XT 3x7 from the 1990s. I think having less gears improves shifting tolerances because each shift has a larger area it encompasses in the shift range.
@@practicalguy973 I recently built a couple of bikes to use for bike-packing. We envisage doing a lot of our mileage off-road and so I wanted as big a range of gears as possible for climbing while loaded up with camping gear. So I went 3x9 (components sourced cheaply on eBay) but I went slightly beyond the range spec for the rear derailleur. It means that the system cannot cope with the chain on the largest rear sprocket and the largest chain ring at the same time (but who would do that anyway, right?), but I have the most amazing range of gears for climbing and for road work. I opted for XTR derailleur with XT front mech and shifters, and the shifting is as sweet as you can imagine. 3x9 stuff is cheap on eBay, nobody wants it!
this is how I dropped my chain on a training ride. My team thought I bonked and laughed at me for about a month. It's not a tuning issue I've only ever dropped my chain on the bottom of climbs and it has only happened once on Shimano and once on Sensah.
I ease up pedal pressure even when downshifting the front, but the biggest grade I ever faced was like 9%.
I’ve definitely reverted back to a 2X system on my gravel bikes. Being able to get an insane amount of range, and incremental shifting it’s so much nicer than having a clean looking set up.
Sram eagle is 500% range
@Maciej Jan Długosz I haven't had to maintain anything yet
The sram xx1 chain is terrible? It lasts ages
@Maciej Jan Długosz of course you have to change things
I'm not 100% how much I've done on it but I've had the bike 6 months,no chain wear yet
@@getstrongby4038Do the math and compare that to a 3x wide range touring set up. It's a lot more than 500%, believe it or not. Which may be ok for mtb or 'cross or flat roads and commuting. Which is what 1x was designed for. It's really nothing new. We used 1x for 'cross racing in the '80s! We didn't need anything close to 500%. Otherwise I'd have been dropped for certain. My mother also used 1x5 on her Schwinn cruiser in the '60s.
500% 'sounds' great, (not on paper though) but it's actually mere marketing BS. Something SRAM is great at. SRAM Eagle is also constant job security for me. I won't mention SRAM's constantly sucky hydro brakes we've been replacing warrantying and recalling for nearly 20 YEARS since they were called Avid. For this QC related problem alone I cannot recommend anything Sram to my favorite customers who value my expertise.
Once you start hauling your household up big mountain passes, riding ALL day, every day, or merely riding pavement to get to trails, 1x is sorely lacking, at least for my uses.
I'm glad someone else said it. Like you said, I get it. 1x looks good and it's great in certain instances. But for all round utility, 2x is still the way to go IMO
Well, I'm late to the party (pace), but I just can't see ever giving up my 2X config. I really like the convenience of shifting the chainring to get an instant 3-4 gear equivalent jump from very low for kicking off to cruising speed. I'm presently kitting up for a complete modernization overhaul of my vintage British touring bike to a 650b gravel-esque setup and I decided to pass on the idea of a 1X switch largely thanks to your experiences (especially with those monster cassettes). I don't need endless rear derailleur fiddling, thanks.
I really appreciate your alternative take on cycling. I've had about all I can take of the road racing, TT-centric RUclips channels so prevalent. I am a 60-something fitness, health and cycling enjoyment rider who now and then breaks into an impromptu sprint just for grins. I'm really enjoying your videos and I hope you keep on doing 'em. Cheers!
I switched to 1x on my commuter recently fully aware of the tradeoffs. The simplicity of one derailer is great, and I have the same ~400% range as before. Was a little harder to set up but I found it to be worth it. When I tour again I'll leave the rear as is and go back to 2x for absurdly low gear ratios.
11-48 with a 40-42t crank works for me
But you're severely limited in range. If you ride on mostly relatively flat roads that's fine. If you ride in mountains you won't be able to BOTH pedal up long climbs AND pedal down them. If you don't need that capability or just coast down hills that's fine too.
I tour and haul heavy loads and ride both pavement and trails in big mountains. Roads (IMHO) are simply a necessary evil to get to the dirt, and I don't want to waste time spinning madly on pavement, wearing junk out.
With 1X, I'd need to choose a gear range either high or low. Can't have both, there's no way around that. I tried it and despised it. Fortunately on a borrowed bike.
I'm a pro mechanic and also see wear and chainline issues with 1x. It's simply more job security, where my old 2 or 3x bikes last for decades.
Also I'm an old road racer who's very sensitive to change in cadence. A 1x system has huge gaps between each gear, which is no good for my efficiency.
If I want to be in the wrong gear constantly I ride my singlespeed or my fixed gear bikes! Thats how we trained every winter way back in the day. We emulated the Euro pros.
Fixed gear in particular works on strengthening my weaknesses in cadence. It's French word, called 'souplesse'.......
My 3x gears are 24,36,46 and 11-36 cassette. My 2x gears are 22/42 with 11-36. I gave high enough gears to spin over 40 mph and gears lower than I really need to haul a 50 lb load up a 5000' pass in the Sierra. I often ride all day, every day for days on end.
@@rollinrat4850 hello me defending a setup I no longer use a year ago 😂
I still believe in 1x even though it's don't use it on any of my bikes anymore. I don't know any bicycle commuters who have to climb mountains then bomb hills. I think that trade is worth it for simplicity for a lot of people.
As for "souplese" (spelling?) I hear you, I raced road bikes a bit as well and emulated the winter training in the same way you describe. I think that made my comfy on the admittedly greater gaps of 1x setups.
As for drivetrain wear, idk about your statement that they're "moneymakers" but I find your general sentiments re:maintenance, and it's what had me finally switch. I just wasn't seeing the chain life I wanted, so I went to a wide-low 2x setup, actually matching your 2x setup! 22-44 11-36t is my sweet spot for around here, and it generally feels as simple as a 1x without giving up range
Tldr good points, I enjoyed the 1x when I have it and appreciate what you trade, even though I don't run them anymore
For me a 40 or 38 ring and a 12spd 10-45 is the sweet spot
The nice thing about cycling in 2022 is that there seems to be something for most everyone. With that variety comes the ability to experiment and find what works for you, no matter what that might be. If it is 1X and it gets you home, great! If not, then 2X or even 3X might be the ticket. Cycling is not immune to fads and trends and 1X certainly has had its time in the sun. And for many it is fine but others find it too limiting and so they are moving back to multiple chain rings. I'm old enough to remember when 10 speeds were the norm and I mean two up front and 5 in the back, so most anything today is a huge improvement.
When it comes to bikes and likes, vive la difference!
Its real hard to buy a new mt bike with 2X........the bike design doesnt allow it........a gravel bike can still be a 2X.
@@bradsanders6954 back in 1983 on my first MTB I was running a Stronglight double with a 48 X 28 with a 5 speed rear. it was fine for my use the bike saw a lot of forestry logging and gravel roads.
Yep I know when 15 speed was on all top of the line bikes, 3 in front and 5 in the back or a 18 with 3 in front and 6 in the back for all top of the line, then a 24 that was 2x in front and 12 in back mostly for road but some were later made for extreme MBT stuff with all steel parts, with now 3x 12 for 36 is common for some road Pro stuff when going over biggest hills in some races like Tour De Frace or even tougher Giro De Italia cycling. In fact, it is in Italy where the Bianchi made the first road bikes with more than two gears using a Derailleur on the back gear, a 5 speed with a single speed in the front specifically for pro Italian riders in the Giro complaining how doing this race without more than 2 speed back Derailleur setup is leaving them unable to continue on stages due to race being mostly mountains.
@@caseysmith544 I had the first year Rockhopper they made,at the time it was a really cool bike........if a triple is tuned right it works fine, but 2X is fine these days with the cassettes coming in all sizes now.............it used to be a point of pride to run a tiny cassette on back with 12/22 or what ever,and 42/52 on front................now even pros run pretty realistic gears for climbing.
You won't believe me when i say I'm still looking for a 2x5 TODAY, why? The chain alignment.. i don't like today's new standards of the ever increasing number of rings because manufacturers do not tell consumers chains wear out faster the more rings you have, because the more rings, the chain alignment suffers, the result is faster wear and power losses, that's why they tried to offset it by creating a larger tire diameter to make the sprockets farther from each other thus lessening the strain on the chain, because using both smallest and largest cogs definitely misaligned the chain, so I'm going back to 2x5 to better preserve my chain, actually, I'm gonna build a NEW 2x5, my old 2x5 never worn-out its chain for a decade! THEY INCREASED THE SPEEDS NOWADAYS SO YOU WILL BUY A NEW CHAIN MORE OFTEN, MANUFACTURERS STRATEGY LOL
I’ve been around long enough to remember when the “new tech” was 1x5, 2x5, 3x6, 3x9, 2x10,,,,,,1x12. For enduro and DH the current 1x offerings make a lot of sense to me. Less chain issues with slapping or dropping. Front shifter spot becomes available for dropper post lever. All good. But for touring or bikepacking I wont give up 3x9 or 2x10. Having top gear above 90” is nice for casual stand up pedaling to give the butt a break. If I’m spinning out a 90+” gear chances are that gravity is already supplying so much power/speed that brake and tire tech become the more relevant topics. At the the low end, If I can’t keep my feet moving more than 60rpm in a 17.5” gear then I’ll speed up the trip by dismounting and pushing the bike.
LOL, started on hand-me-down one speed balloon tire bikes with very worn tires, as I got older dad let me use his three speed (in the rear hub) bike, mom had a similar one that they had used to bike tour/camp for their honeymoon in the early 1940's. My first "road" bike was 2x5 that I rode everywhere - pavement, gravel, trails, single track, corn fields, open woods, pastures. Recently went back to an old haunt - "how in the F did I ride up that hill( +-20%)but be defeated by a 5% gravel grade up to the high school. When my hand-me-up 3x6 was in the shop for a while I was loaned a 1x12 gravel bike that I put through its paces, nice but I missed that lower range. Ordered a new gravel bike and handed back the 3x6 bike to my son but while I waited had the loan of a 2x10 gravel bike - it hits that sweet spot of low enough to manage many steeps and high enough to challenge my PB speeds on pavement. Yes, if my cadence drops too low on steep climbs walk a bike becomes faster 👍🚴♀️
That's what I do too. I kinda understand the "floor is lava" cyclists, you want a universal machine, but riding up a very steep hill s*cks no matter what.
omg, I love this! I just found your channel and I am loving everything you're putting out. Thanks for this!!!
Been subscribed for a while now and I rarely if ever comment. I enjoy your content and am in the market now to update my current bike, let's just say it's old and I'm not far behind. All I see is 1x everything now. I honestly haven't even ridden on a bike with it yet but from all the comments I've read from more experienced people here I think I'll steer clear of it for the riding that I do. Thanks for the information and posting something like this, it's quite helpful!
Agreed. 2x for me - never going 1x . Especially since I use my gravel bike for everything - 1X is not flexible enough.
I rode a 3x setup for about a decade. 3x8 is actually very affordable, provides a huge range, and still has reasonable steps between the gears. I never once regretted having that granny ring even though I only used it once in a while. Also, you could pretty much leave the bike in the middle ring for 90% of riding, so it was nice not to really need to constantly switch the front deraileur. a little bit of extra weight, but knowing I always had the right gear no matter the circumstances was nice. I'm currently running a 2x, but I would consider going back to 3x if I was doing more loaded riding or lived in a hillier area.
I've personally fallen in love with my Rohloff IGH with a 42x16 input ratio, which gives a range from 18.2 GI-95.8 GI, and allows an absolutely beautiful unchanging chainline, which contributes to MASSIVE chain life in the thousands of miles given proper lubrication and cleaning routines
For MTB, I love my 1x. When I ran a gravel build, I really loved the 2x. I found it to be a perfect setup to run the big chainring for most of the flats and be able to have that 30T up front just for the big climbs.
This is what I have been thinking. I have just ordered a 48/32 crank to replace my old one after months of making myself mad trying to chose between 1 or 2x.
Heck, I too still prefer 3x and I have 1x, 2x and 3x bikes in my stable. With 3x and 8 or 9 speed you have all incremental range you could ever need. My 3x10 is a veritable smorgasbord of gears for my enjoyment 🙂. I’m different than you Russ in that I desire small jumps in gear changes. Guess I’m picky! The thing I always found funny when my LBS shop would tout 1x and say “you get 94% of the range” my response was always yes but it’s that 6% you really miss when you need it. Great video! Thanks.
It's not about being picky. Don't know where you live, but my home area is mostly flat, so the "problems" I have to deal with are mostly slight changes in road angle or wind intensity, also the slight decrease in energy over longer rides. For that, I absolutely want small steps between gears to stay at that sweet spot where the preferred pedalling frequency meets the optimal feeling of physical strain. So 3x it needs to be, for valid reasons.
I went with my gut and chose 2X as the rest of the world was jumping on the 1X wave and I’ve never regretted it. For my riding it gives so much more choice. And if you know how to maintain a bike, it’s really no hassle.
How so? You can use all the gears with 1x
Same came from a 3x MTB to a 2x hybrid and it is good.
@Maciej Jan Długosz As you said that would you think a 46/30 crank would be bad?
@Maciej Jan Długosz That is my worry too. I have a new 46/30 that I might just fit.
Excellent video! You're giving us a very well researched and common sense opinion that I agree with completely. As someone who loves to load up a cheap-o steel frame touring bike and explore, the weight savings and cool factor of the 1x drive never really justified the lost gear range or limited component selection. Kudos for bringing up the simplicity and effectiveness of friction shifters too!!!
I have been riding 3x this year and it's so much easier to climb with than 2x. This especially considering the hills around where I live consistently hit 20%+.
20% !!!!!!!
@@gicking3898 yes, I live next to the second tallest mountain in Africa. Mt Kenya.
@@MELAVINKING Cool!
Damn, dem legs!
Can you get a 2x with low gearing on the first gear?
finally a person making sense about this gearing stuff -good on ya i still run a 3 by and im ok with that !!!
Me too. Friction.
@@donhuber9131 I dont want friction shifting,and a proper 2X can be as low as 3X. The new front mechs Really Work Well,like magic.......so new stuff isnt so bad.......I just wish I hadnt spent 4+K on a new 1X XC bike...but I did.
@@bradsanders6954 good point!
Just got back from a tour running a front derailer for the first time. I used a bar end shifter and it was great to be able to use the granularity of the friction shifter to pop the chain back on if it dropped, plus it allowed me to trim the front derailer for a silent drivetrain no matter my chainline. I don't think I'd want to run an indexed 2x or 3x setup.
Thanks for the comment; I just knew that someone here would invoke wonderful old Suntour shifters. Well said! 👍🚴
The new lectric shimano shifting self trims the front derailleur,GRX and road both,you never have to touch it. it works so well its amazing.
friction rules. Indexing - especially a triple - is a PITA
I used to run my touring bike in friction mode for tours where shifting wasn't critical. It sort of gave me something to fidget with, also I enjoyed honing my skill at getting perfect shifts, reminded of the pre indexing days.
@@mikegleim5241 I'm using the wonderful XC Pro thumb shifters with custom machined clamps to operate under the brake levers on my ultra wide dirt drop bars. I'd been visualizing this set up for a long time as I went to sleep. I finally found the time to make it happen and machined the parts. It works as good as I imagined.
Some of the oldest bike parts Im still using on my rando bike are the awesome Sun Tour bar cons. Ive used 'em since the '70s!
Great video! I'm used to 3x mountain bikes and i never thought 1x was a good idea. A little less weight but much less versatility, there's just no reason for me to go 1x
I've always run 3x front gears and see no reason to pay more for less functionality.
@@DinnerForkTonguemore for more wear
This was fascinating, thoughtful, and very helpful. Thanks for sharing from your extensive experience.
Just made the move from 2x to 1x. Loving the simplicity, never going back, but then I'm 70 years old and ride a lot of hills. My 10-52 x 40t still gives me pedaling traction at 30 mph, a speed I hit once or twice in a long ride.
Yeah, I made the move a few years ago. Never going back. I recently upgraded to e13 cassette, so I have 9-50. Along with a 42 tooth chainring there is just no reason to need a 2x unless you really care about cadence.
@@DrTomCruisin Or weight. Heavier bike (or larger tires) or carrying anything more than bottles and your seat pack and suddenly your gearing verges on being insufficient.
Same here! 😃👍
@@SurpriseMeJT That setup I described has a 555% range. That's huge. I've gone bikepacking in some of the most mountainous areas and gearing has never been a problem.
Yeah, same. I can downshift on a climb with just a quick relax of pedal pressure.
Sticking with the 3 by on my tour bike. Love having the ability to climb the big hills while being capable of speed on the flats.
Love the hamsters reference
Fixed gear rider here. Set up and adjustments drive me crazy, I just want to ride. That said, I do have uses for geared bikes, especially since I'm getting older. The one thing that has always driven me nuts about 2x or 3x is chain rub on cross gearing. For me it's worth it to live with the 1x so I don't ever have to hear the faint sound of the chain rubbing on my front derailure.
When I want to ride a fixy I zip tie the cassette to the drive side spokes. This makes for a multi gear fixy. If I want a 1 gear bike I don't shift. 3 bikes in one! Oh yeah, If I want a track style fixy, don't use the brakes.
@@kevinnielsen1356 "if I want a 1 gear bike I don't shift" you monster
Friction shifting for the front derailleur completely eliminates that issue - not that I often had that problem with indexed front shifting, either. And even then, the rubbing noise to me is nowhere near as bad as the grinding sound of an ever so slightly dirty 1x chain cross-chaining up to the biggest ring. That always feels and sounds like pedaling through a mortar and pestle!
@@MSUTri the sound of chain and sproket grinding to dust.
Totally agree 2x is the way to go for gravelish bikes. I have a rim brake Black Mountain Cycles ‘Monstercross’, and run a 36/26 double and a 12-34 8-speed cassette. I only spin out the 36/12 top gear when going down hill, and by then, I’m coasting anyway. I can comfortably cruise at 17-18 mph on the flat without spinning over 80. With the 50mm tires I run, it’s plenty of top gear. For climbing I find 26/34 is usually low enough, but could see where 24/34 would be better with more weight on the bike. I use 8-speed shimano bar ends and generally go with friction mode mostly because as the chain gets covered with grime, the indexing gets finicky and, truth be told, I think friction shifting is actually _less_ of a hassle.
My only gripe with 2x is chain drops. Here’s where I’d love to get some collective wisdom on how to avoid this nuisance. I use the two inner rings on an sugino XD-2 triple crank (I use a riv chain guard in the outer position). I think the ring spacing might be a few mm too wide. What are optimal chain ring spacing for 8 or 9 speed chains. Finally, have any of you guys used a chain catcher? It looks like a good solution, but mounting space is tight on my bike. I’d need to add an additional hanger because the bike uses a top pull FD.
Gotta follow your needs.
For me, I'll never give up the slick, integrated dropper post that so smoothly integrates in the GRX 1x left lever that is no longer needed for shifting.
Never getting a 2x. Luckily I got to use my brother's 2X bike for a while before buying my own gravel bike. I have no regrets with my 1X choice. Only thing I am really missing is a bit of top speed, which is not really why I bike.
Are dropper posts really all that tho. A sus lockout lever would be more practical to people who do ascents
@@jellylake1649 for someone who came to gravel bikes from mountain bikes, and likes double tracks and often takes single track detours, it's fantastic. It sold my on getting a Kona Libre CR/DL instead of a Salsa warbird, and I have never regretted my choice.
Even around town, at stop lights, swinging a leg over the bike when loaded with bags or luggage, small things make it a delight to have. I love my dropper. Also makes descending delightfully pleasant and so much easier to get your body's centre of gravity lower or in a more comfortable position.
Benefits for me highly outweigh the few extra km/hour I'd get ftom a 2x setup
When we ride the really steep around here on gravel bikes,guess who is off and pushing sometimes? The guys who bought into 1X on a gravel bike. Like 20% grade and the 1 to 1 gearing or nearly so just wont quite do it...pushing does build character for sure.
@@bradsanders6954 Which is why bikes are so fun. There is no perfect bike, just perfect for you. And how many smiles your bike gives you.
No one is smiling on a 20% gravel climb, 1x, 2x, except maybe the person who rips past everyone on an ebike, but that's a while different can of debate ;)
Luckily I also ride gravel uphill on a 20% gradient basically never, so I'm pretty happy with my choice.
Walking up that, if I ever see such a thing in the part of the world I live in, qualifies as party pace to me. I have no qualms with that.
I really like my 1x setup on my gravel bike, but only after I put on a 38 chainring, although 36 might have worked too. Only problem is, I like loaded touring, and it just doesn't have the range for it. I either need to stick a front derailleur on it or get another bike...
A cycling journalist I used to follow once said “Never once on a ride have I ever thought: Hey, this would be more fun with fewer gears.”
I certainly have. Looks at single speed that I am currently building.
@@robertcoates2752 And if you can climb a “ridonkulus” grade, on gravel, loaded down, then I’m impressed. For me I might could do it, for a bit, but it wouldn’t be anything I’d call “fun”. Especially on a two to three day backcountry cruise.
@@greggschwabauer6241 I won't use my single speed for that.
I've been riding 2x and 3 x for years, but I love my 1x gravel bike. It's awesome for weekend rides on single trails and I have just completed a 600km multi day ride with over 12,000 meters of climbing on a loaded bike and it was fantastic. Hassle free riding.
Very informative video, and yes would enjoy seeing more videos of all the topics you mentioned. I'm a channel subscriber but this video reminded me to click the notification bell. I've missed a lot of your past videos.
Totally agree. I've built up two brand new frames in the last 18 months. One I did 2X and the other 3X (oh, the horror!) 9 speed. They are both LX/XT mountain bike components with Microshift friction shifting. I love the simplicity and ease of setup. Gives me the confidence that I can troubleshoot any problem on the side of the road or trail.
As a brevet and audax rider, aka partypace sportives (I also use my bike for gravel BRMs, and adventure, etc.) I really love having the gear range and the granularity offered by 2x, especially 2x10 and 2x11. The range gives me a decent climbing ability while giving me gears for a 25/30 mph top speed, and the granularity lets me ride at an appropriate pace in all conditions.
I love a 3x9 but will settle for a 2x10 or 11. The bike shops thinks I'm crazy for wanting a cutthroat with the grx 2x11. They keep telling me that 1x12 is better. Told them I'm old school retro grouch who has no problems shifting a 3x9.
I too like old school 'junk'. I still ride decades old 2or3X 6-10 speed set ups with all compatible friction shifting. It seems to last and last. I learned how to shift over 40 years ago. I very very
seldom drop my chain, even on more rocks than dirt trails. Ive ridden 100s of thousands of miles. I wrench in a high end shop just for 'fun'. I deal with ALL the issues, warranties and recalls. New bicycle 'technology' is nothing, but JOB SECURITY to me!'
I'm also a retired mechanical inspector and machinist as well. I can build nearly anything and understand high quality engineering procedures. Nobody is fooling me! Least of all, marketing bullshitters
Its the RIDER, not the freakin bike.
@@rollinrat4850 what got me about the bike shop workers was I had switched from down tube friction shifting to the very first sti shifters before they were even born. I wanted to say don't tell me I'll get confused about shifting and cross chaining unless I go 1x until you have more than a passing experience with 3x. SMH.
They want everyone on 1Xs because they know they'll sell more chains, more often. It hasn't been what's best for the rider for a long time, it's about getting you to buy parts faster.
@@grandpavanderhof Marketing bullshit is all about separating consumers from their money. Its not just the bike industry either. Profit is all that matters. Once they got IT, what IT'S exchanged for now becomes a consumer's PROBLEM. 1x does make sense for gravity oriented MTB and cyclocross racing, but lots of 'cross racers have used a single chainring long before 1x existed! So have downhillers! I've been around bike racing for several decades. Nobody's fooling me! For 'cross racing 'wide range' cassettes don't make sense either. For endurance riding, mixed terrain (gravel) and loaded touring, 'wide range' cassettes don't offer enough range. '500% just sounds good to those who believe marketing Bullshitters. It's actually a bald faced lie if you can actually do simple grade school math. I don't even need a calculator or paper to figure that out!
You're right, 1x drivetrain parts don't last as long and replacements are definately more expensive. More for less! Who woulda thunk? Only in the bike industry! They're noisier and often run rough at extreme chain angles. Lots of the bikes have chainline issues.
Just a chain, 'ring and cassette can cost over $300 on a mid level bike.
@@markowsley4954 Haha, I betcha most of those sales type people can't even drive a freakin stick shift!
Its not like its a 30 speed transmission on a diesel semi truck! A 3x 7,8,9,10,11 is hardly 'rocket science'! H
This is the kind of content that got this former hard-core roadie into your channel. I had to gear down after spine surgery but still didn’t want to spin out. I’ve seen all of your mullet drivetime videos multiple times, Love my brifters but probably going to go friction for maximum flexibility on my next build
This channel is music to my ears. Keep up the great work! 👍
I’m one hundred percent with you on running a 2x system, especially on my gravel bike. SRAM had to push 1x because they couldn’t build a decent front derailleur to save their life.
FD M6020 D by Shimano is a masterpiece! Origin8 Thruster Boost 2x crankset is my hero - but swap BB spacers to keep it centered.
I once had a box with DOZENS of broken Sram road front derailleurs at my shop. Everything, high to low end would break in exactly the same place. The spot weld on the cage. I always replaced them with Shimano's if we had 'em. I don't have a box of broken Shimano front derailleurs.
I'm a retired mechanical inspector. Now I wrench in the shop for fun. Sram has no idea what QC stands for. Don't waste your money.
Remember when Tom Ritchey released the 2x9? It was way ahead of its time (1994?!) in both concept and execution. Seems even more ingenious now that we are fully realizing the worth of 9speed, 2x, and the duration of production of the HG freehub.
Quite frankly, the bike industry simply needs to create new products for us to buy. It often has very little to do with innovation.
I remember vividly the articles reviewing 2 x 9 saying that it was realistically only for racers! That us mere mortals couldn't possibly handle not having the granny gear.
The past is the future.
@@mikegleim5241 Some kits had a 28t inner chainring. Combined with the 33t rear cog added in the back, you would have ~22 gear inches. That is plenty of low gear.
Charlie Cunningham was doing 2x drivetrains in the early 1980’s with custom modified freewheels.
Love your videos! I completely agree with the 2x set up. I don’t live in a mountainous area so the 48/30 works for me. I did do a ride out in Colorado last year with no gear loaded so I put a 11/40 cassette on and I was good to go. Once I start doing bike packing we will see how the 46/30 works out. Great video! Thanks!
"If it's good enough for Eddy Merckx, then it's good enough for me!" Awesome quote, thanks!
I've been running 1x for a while now and I love the simplicity and find I don't really need the extra gears for the type of riding I do, BUT I have been considering going to a 2x9 setup for a few reasons - the main one being the low cost and availability of 9-speed cassettes.
Here in Australia, getting a replacement 50t cassette is a mail-order event, which is already awkward when touring, but would be even worse if we were in Central Asia or something. Whereas last time I needed a 9-speed one I managed to find it in the first bike store I went into.
I had been looking at various wide-range doubles like the Sun Exceed etc.... but they're all expensive and hard to come by, so I'm just going to build my own. I have an Alivio triple crankset that I'm just going to use as a double. Leave the outer ring off and order a couple of chainrings in the sizes that I want - most likely a 40-26 or something like that. Should be extremely practical and budget friendly!
To add to the chorus, it really comes down to use. In NW Iowa, the paved riding is very slight gradient (almost never above 4%) and brief, but combined with long sustained headwinds. So at my shop I recommend 2x for finding that perfect cadence under load with lightly variable gradient. However, the gravel roads usually feature closely spaced rollers of brief duration, so a rider can move through the full range of the cassette multiple times in the space of a mile. Again, sustained climbing just doesn't happen. So 1x just becomes simpler at that point. Thanks for the vid Russ!
Yes, where you ride has a lot to do with it. Here in western NC, we see gravel road grades up to 28%. So many variables... And that's what keeps it interesting!
Props for using friction shifters! That's rad!! I rode my old M2 with first gen Grip Shift and a 42/24- 13-28 combo. I also had a run- of- the- mill Deore XT front and XT with Dura Ace cage in the back. Oh,yeah. It was also a 7 speed. Plenty of range tho. Enjoy the videos, I'll keep watching!
This is awesome! This is definitely bike content that no one else is talking about.
I think this is why the Classified 2 speed rear hub is such a compelling idea. It gives you the clean look of 1X with the range of a 2x.
I think its the 2.4k pricetag that disqualifies this brilliant solution for most of us
"the clean look". How much do looks really play into a drivetrain? I cant see em when Im riding.........I dont sit and look at my bike's driveline ever.
@@peteralexander6514 that 2.4k includes the whole carbon wheelset, a lot of carbon wheelsets are worth 2k dollars, 400 dollars seems justified in that sense.
@@pipolchamp8205 well, I'd buy the hub and cassette for 400 in a heartbeat 😃
Internal gear hubs are a sound solution, unless you live in North America.....?
I don't understand the 1x thing. If your climbing with a load, 3x seems like the best solution, but I can see 2x as being good enough. I use an elderly Suntour XCM front derailleur with a friction shifter and it is fine for my 3x setup. Cost was 3 dollars at the local bike co-op.
Nothing beats dropping down a gear effortlessly when you're met with a steeper hill than you expected. And you're right they're cheap as peanuts since there's such an abundance. I don't really get the 1x thing either unless you just don't need the range (mtb on the slow end, road/gravel racing for high end). For us casual riders a 2x or 3x is perfect
@@phantomflame0658 Having 30 gears is very intimidating for noobies. I found it very intimidating to have 30 gears before I started riding and understood how it works.
I think for entry level and low end bikes designed for noobs, 1x is a great idea. Less gears, less maintence, less shifters and cables. You don't have to worry about cross-chaining and tracking which gear you're in front and back. As a noob you just want to get on and ride.
IMO the main arguments for 1x is to keep it simple.
@@BanAaron That's a good point too but I'm more focused on the userbase of this channel. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense for touring bikes, and it's not much hassle at all, it takes like 10 mins to adjust everything nicely. All personal preference. I get why people do 1x swaps for normal commuter city bikes but I'll still take my triple any day :)
@@BanAaron After some thinking how I could get a bit lower gears on my road bike I was cycling with a 3x and was surprised how well it fit my speed on that bike. Set the front to slow, mid, fast and use the cassette for finer adjustment.
But I think for a noob to understand cross chaining can be confusing. An depending on the type of riding I'd take gear hubs into account. They also are 1x and you can shift at any speed including standing.
@@BanAaron For noobs, I just tell them to put the Front gear into the middle chainring, and get comfortable with shifting the rear. Once they figure that out, higher and lower on the big gears becomes much easier.
I love the way you're able to analyse your needs and adapt your bike based on it without getting locked into fashion. I intend to set my E-bike on 3x1 (single gear at the back). I'm sure I'll still this idea of a friction shifter you had.
Great video as always; ironically I started watching your channel to learn how to hack my old MTB into a 1 X gravel bike. The Gevenalle system works great with my old clutch XT derailleur. Pretty funny to me, this channel has gone full circle with how to 'hack' a front derailleur. Great stuff; keep the videos coming the techier the better.
I'll be honest, in many of your "technical" videos..I always had critiques and constructive criticism with at least part of your content...but this video...Excellent job on outlining everything that you've learned through the process. Everything you said, and all the topics you covered about braze-on clamps and FDs....all really good stuff and all absolutely on-point!
BTW. If you're looking for that 40/28 or around there....have a look at the 10sp SRAM and Shimano MTN cranksets. 39/26, 38/24 and 40/28.
I know for a fact Shimano and SRAM made 2X cranksets in those ranges, and I have a Shimano XTR M985 with 40/28.
Those cranks don't exist any more. I put together a 28/44 mountain double 2x9 with 64/104 BCD rings from FSA on Race Face Ride XC crankset from the end of the 3x9 MTB era. 28/38 is about the most you can expect these days on a "wide range" 2x10 MTB setup.
Everything still exists if you look for it. New or used. Search for 'NOS',but some rare stuff gets expensive if the seller knows what it is.
Be patient and persistent, it's out there. Lots of people, web sellers or even bike shops have old junk squirreled away, forgotten, collecting dust and taking up space Since it's 'old outdated junk' it will likely be cheap, maybe even free if you're persistent and lucky. Cycling is my 'cheap hobby'!
There are plenty of square taper mtb triples that work just fine as doubles. All ya gotta do is hunt and ask around.
I do 22/38 on a
104bcd crank, 24/42 on a 110bcd crank and 24/39 on a custom 130mm crank I machined myself from a block of aluminum. I'll use anything from 6 speed freewheels to 10 speed cassettes, all with friction shifters.
I'll even run 2 chainrings, no front derailleur and shift by hand. Ive done that since I was a broke kid. Its good incentive to not shift and keep pedaling hard!
My last gravel rebuild, I did a Tiagra 3X front, 105 10 spd rear. Wanted the 3X for loaded climbing. Seems to work well, but would love a GRX 3X setup.
I just setup a 26"-650b converted MTB with a mix of XTR/XT 3x8 setup and am super duper happy with it. Its so smooth and shifts so crisply. Crankset is 46/36/26 and the cassette is 12-36. Bar end shifters from micro shift with the left being friction only and the right being able to switch from index to friction. Rear mech is XTR (M900). Front mech is XT (m730). Crankset is XT m730 and 110 bcd so there are many different ring configurations that can be mounted. 1x is great. 2x is great. 3x is great. All good for different applications. Thanks for the great content as always Russ.
I built up my drop bar touring bike last year with 2x8. 22-36 MTB crankset, 11-34 Microshift steel cassette, Claris ST-R2000 brifters, Altus FD-M315, Sora mid cage RD I still had lying around. So happy with it! Inexpensive, huge range (18-90"), easy to setup, works fine, comfortable hoods also with flared bars, cables neatly under the handlebar tape. The front derailleur neatly prevents chain drop, no expensive narrow wide chainrings required.
The beauty of 2x on a gravel bike is being able to hang with the roadies and then hop straight onto the trails with MTB'ers and then back onto the road to go home! I understand certain conditions where 1x will have advantages. For most everything else something like 2x GRX is so smooth and easy to adjust, I only have to check my derailleurs every so often to make sure they're indexing properly (which they usually are). On a side note, I ride those SoCal hill climbs every week and this is where 2x shines with mostly sunny weather and hard packed dirt trails.
You left out the detail that SoCal mountains are steep!
Hear, here! I live in NorCal. I'm surrounded by 2-3000 foot vertical climbs . Any trail thats good fun where I can actually escape the masses requires at least a 1000- 2000 foot climb! I ride in the Sierras often and I'm planning to move to Colorado soon. Every time I ride in mountains I spend provably 80% of my time pedaling uphill!
My buddy did this on his recent bike build and excluded the front derailleur. He just moves it by hand when we gets to a big hill. Seems to work pretty good for him.
being dutch i've done that a lot lmfao. That and pulling brake cables that run under toptubes lol.
Did that on my kids bike - worked great
To each their own. I have a 1x11 42 11-42 on my gravel bike and I really like it.
Rock on, Russ. Most of us just want to ride. I'm still plodding along on my ancient Trek 520 triple. It's gotten me almost everywhere. I will say, now in my 70s, that, since following your channel, I've gone from 700 x 25's to 38's. And, I'll go wider if my rims can accommodate. I do love the supple. 👍
I appreciate this sort of video. I swapped to 1x and never looked back, but as I get older I'm starting to miss the range. 3x can die a cold hard death, but I might swap my bike to a 2x and it's good to have info on how to go about it.
Whats missing? The 50 tooth is ridiculous easy up hills
Is it the top speed?
@@getstrongby4038 the bike is slow
Depends on the bike I would say. My commuter and xc bike are 1X and I don’t see that changing ever. My road bike is a 2X and until hubshifting becomes more prevalent, I don’t see that changing either.
Indeed. For a trail bike a 1x drivetrain is perfect. One less lever on the bar, one less cable rattling against the frame and no more dropped chains on a front downshift. Imo it's one of the _best_ "innovations" in recent years. For an MTB, that is. On my commuter I'm running a 2x drivetrain and I'm happy with that too.
And also where you're riding it. I converted my mtb to 1x but kept 2x on my gravel bike; because that's what works best *where I ride each bike*. Out here in the Northeast, the mountain bike trails I ride don't have much net vertical altitude gain, but have frequent, short, steep ascents and descents. I just don't need much high-end gearing on my MTB where I ride it because on descents I'm usually coasting and there's very few flat sections. If I were riding the kind of trails we see on this channel, I'd probably have kept 2x. 2x works on my gravel bike because it gets ridden on a mix of roads and trails.
Love it! I currently run a 38 X 24 with a 11-36 10 speed and find it fits the bill pretty well for my riding. I am in my late 60s and just recycled most of my 2x stuff off an older MTB with ultegra shifters.
your bike builds are so awesome brother!
100% agree. A 40/24 with a 12-30 cassette is my sweet spot for the gravel in the western NC mountains. I'm a spinner and this lets me ride comfortably all day. A 1x is cool but doesn't quite match my rhythm especially when tired. So far all I know for options are White Industries and Rene Herse. I also agree there were more affordable options for this 1x with a low range concept.
T.A. makes 1, 2 and 3 ring cranks. Arms and spiders are separate. Peter White cycles sells them.
@@thedavidduncan Thanks! I'll check it out.
I was very sceptical about 1x also because of the gearing range issue. One plus I have with 1x is that the chain dried not drop off the crank anymore. So I'm keeping the new 1x setup for now.
1X tends to be the set up that does drop the chain,they make a bunch of guides to hold the chain in place,on mt bikes anyway. Maybe on gravel bikes...........its due to the chainline being so radical.
@@bradsanders6954 I did not mention I am using a big brand chainring with the narrow wide teeth. They do seem to help a lot with chain drop..
this video jusr saved me from this rabbit hole of going 1x on my daily bike. been thinking of it for a few months. thank you for this video
Great video, thanks.
I went from 3x to 2x and use a sram 42/28 bb30 crankset. I've been using this setup for 5 years. Its light and works well . The downsides - sram stopped making them, they've got aluminum spindles and hence wear out fast.
This makes a lot of sense for bike packing or having any kind of cargo or added weight to the bike. I think 1x systems are more or less designed for just the rider and bike using a fairly lightweight setup.
I rode a fully loaded hardtail mtn bike, 1x12 with 32 chain ring x10-51 cassette on half of the GDMBR last summer, 1,350 miles, I'm 68 years old. I was slow as molasses in January. :-) In the Great Basin of WY I carried 6L of water, two days food, plus base gear of 20 pounds. But, I also have a 3x9 road touring bike with super low gears, and a wider gear range. Both bikes work great for certain types of touring, and neither bike is perfect for every tour or ride. Happy trails, and safe rides.
3x9 is still the most versatile range for almost all cycling situations followed by 2x11 for quicker trail rides. My favorite though is still my Surly 1x1 with drop bars (when it’s not windy - ha)
Old crusty here... and yup, still lovin' my 48/36/26 triple matched to a 12/36 cassette. It's 9-speed setup that works like a charm for me. But I will say, I'm intrigued with the Bombtrack Arise bike... which seems to be what you're slowly working your way toward. Keep up the great work, cheers!
My warbird is a 2x. Love the versatility and gear range. I just got a Rene Herse crank set for my rando bike:46/34, but with unlimited flexibility to go lower. I was using an FSA compact 48/36 crank for years. But it’s just not “party pace” enough for me. Nice work Russ! Long live the dubl!!
Love the simplicity of my one by (32 11-42), just rode from one end of Tasmania to the other, faultless operation got me up and over the steepest climbs, I have ever encountered. Last week I rode a 130km gravel race, it would only spin out around 35-40kph which was was faster than my average. I guess horses for courses, but works for me.
The reviewer said he did 6000 feet in 10 miles or something, loaded with bikepacking gear, And he likes party pace. No brainer for him. He was keen to say it was what suits him, not everyone :)
@@andrewnorris5415 Agree go with whatever works for you. Just cannot see myself going back from 1x
Bold prediction: Russ unexpectedly and uncharacteristically tries single speed this summer.
Haha. I love the channel and your vibe man.
My touring bike is a vintage Gary Fisher mtb with Jones bars and still sporting a 3x. Mostly riding in the big ring but it’s nice to have the other two smaller rings when climbing especially when fully loaded. Glad you’ve speaking out about this especially on non-singletrack riding.
I have the Gary Fisher Utopia 2011 3x9, recently bought a carbon specialized with 2x9 and it is amazing.
Great video, thanks. Just not long got back into riding after a 20 year hiatus. First bike a 2x hardtail, and recently a Kona sutra 3x 10 speed. Very happy with the 3x, using it for everything, city riding, dirt roads, done some short tours. So good to be riding again. I live near Adelaide, South Australia and want to explore more of Australia by bike.
Having always used 1x setups on modern mtbs, I had the misconception that 3x setups were super noisy and clunky… until I tried it on a vintage mtb that I use for commuting, I was surprised on how smooth and silent it was when setup properly.
Now I can't stand the crunchiness of 1x setups, you can literally feel through the pedals and shoes how the soft alu chainring is being eaten up by the steel chain 😁
Exactly, 3x, when you know how to use it, is superior to all other configurations. The chainline is straighter and therefor power transfer is more efficient for more of the time. Proper gearing beats having lower weight.
I love effortlessly dropping down a gear on my old trek 7000 to a lower chainring when there's an unexpected hill, perfectly smooth and quiet, bike doesn't fight back; while everyone else around you is crunching away and getting pissed off. I cringe every time I hear someone on a new mtb or something going CRUNCH CRUNCH CRUNCH it's awful. If you can spend not even 5 minutes to adjust everything properly there's just nothing better.
3x7 XT thumb shifters are still the best shifting I have ever had. And if the indexing was wonky, a simple twist put you in friction mode. Easy-peasy.
Classified makes an internally geared hub with two gears that eliminates the need for a two-by up front. Pretty sure it’s for gravel stuff but I’m sure it would work well for bike packing. Maybe battery could be a concern with it being wireless but worth considering.
It's a cool concept, but it's less efficient and rather a black box in maintenance terms.
👍 1x is great for cyclocross racing or places where you know the terrain. I went back 2x this year too. I got tied of being over or under geared and when traveling always guessing which cassette to bring. Now I’m on a 32/47 with a 11-34 and the option to use a 11-40 if I ever need it for loaded touring.
Very informative video! Thanks! 👍
The nice thing about having multiple bikes is that you can set them up specific to your use cases. Why not just have both 1x and a 2x on different bikes?
Sure, if you have the money and the space to store them and you have no other members in the family who also occupy space with their stuff.
@@antoniocruz8083 agree, if you're a 1-bike person, a 2x/3x setup probably makes more sense.
I own about a dozen custom built bikes. Ive lost count! Theyre all built by me, just for me. They're mostly all pretty old, but some have suspension and disc brakes.
My newest bike is about 3 years old. Its heavy duty steel. No suspension. Its 3x10 for loaded bikepacking/dirt touring.
I'll never buy or build a 1X. It doesn't suit my purposes. If I want to be in the wrong gear all the time, I ride my singlespeeds or a fixed gear cyclocross bike. That's my favorite. 3 of my bikes are singlespeed. They are all I 'need' almost 50% of the time. Those are my 1Xs!
@@rollinrat4850 That is so amazing. Thanks for the info.
The other nice thing about having multiple bikes is better serving your community by working a second job so you are too busy to ride them. Also, you'll never need to maintain all those extra bikes, or buy $60 chains or $120 cassettes, or clean up more Sram Eagle chain links than beer cans from your local MTB trail. Since your first set of bicycles were so problem free, and you never learned how to properly shift them, and you are still need a healthy way to lose 20 lbs, the bicycle manufacturer can sell you another set of new bikes to motivate you to ride more....rinse and repeat.
I’ve always enjoyed your energetic and resourceful bike ‘fettling’. Just to help you out a bit, Spa Cycles in Harrowgate, Uk, sell three different copies of Sugino chainset that can be set up as triples or doubles. The Sugino models copied are the XD and the Alpina 2, I believe. The smallest inner ring is 24 teeth (74 BCD) and the middle and outer rings are on a 110 BCD spyder. To set it up as a double use a bash guard in place of the outer ring, or, more sensibly, fit five shims to replace the outer ring, and Bob’s your uncle, you’ve got a super compact 24/40, or 36, or 34, etc. I’ve used these chainsets for years on various bikes; e.g., a 14-28 freewheel with a 24/40 front gives a range from 23-72 gear inches and a 12-34 cassette gives an 18-100 gear inch range with a 24/44 front. The basic chainset, without rings, is £30, so about 40 odd US dollars. They are well made and nicely polished when in silver. Spa doesn’t ship to Europe because, I assume, of Brexit difficulties, but they should ship to the States. Try one - for the price you can’t go wrong and they are certainly better value than White Industries or Velo Orange, for that matter. Hope this helps, Cheers
The 110/74 triple is my new obsession. Can be set up many ways, and they don't cost a fortune.
I still have my 1by on my gravel and I have not gone out on it much this year but when I did I loved it and my friends said they thought I was having a lot of fun. However, after listening to your sage advice, I did go 2by on a recent road build but used the new GRX 12speed and I totally love it :)
Great video Russ, I love how you push back on the what today's "cool kids" ride with common sense and logic. My PartyPace LHT is 3x and I love it. Mind you, I'm 53 and started mountain biking in then 80s. Everything was 3x, shifters were bar top thumb shifters, 1.75" were fat tires and roller cam brakes were the cool new tech.
I get there is a place for 1x for sure, but I think it really shines for the "average" bike consumer who wants less doo-dads to fiddle with and less things to go wrong i.e 2nd shifter and front derailleur .
A good 2x10 is tough to beat. I am about 50/50 on 2x and 1x now. The 1x12’s are pretty good overall. The biggest issue I have isn’t in climbing (though I’m usually not too loaded up), but my complaint is top speed. I spin them all out so easily on pavement or hard pack dirt conditions. I’ll be doing 2x on my TT bike for sure
I miss the old-school friction levers. It seems that most transmission related incompatibilities are because of index shifters.
Great to find this video, thank you. Finally someone who has looked at this subject from a realistic, functional point of view. Having mechanic'ed in MTB XC racing I saw 1x evolve because you get all the gearing you need and, using narrow/wide front chainring, you massively reduce the problem of unshipping the chain during a race. For most other types of cycling 1x is a big compromise as you have discovered. The other big issue for me is that big range rear cassettes e.g. 10 - 50 only works properly with an expensive rear mech in almost new condition.
I love the idea of 40 24 chain rings. From your lips to the R&D departments of Sram & Shimano. I ride a Salsa Vaya with 42 28 chain rings and an 11 36 cassette. I'm in the 42 without a load and in the 28 when I do a loaded tour. With a load up a hill I always want a lower gear.
I've been contemplating this exact setup but 11-32. It would lead to more even wearing of my cassette. As it is with 46/30, I'm rarely in the little cogs.
Finally someone comes to their senses! The concept of 1 by is lost on me. I must admit I like to exceed 35mph on the downhills, so top of 96 gear inches is insanity, 'cause at 61 I can no longer spin that fast!
Where a 1x is needed is if you have a rear shock. The way most of the pivot patterns work doesn't allow for a front derailleur. But ya with a hard tail I completely get what your saying.
@gundi salvus Over the past 10 years if a front derailleur would have ruined or prevented it they would have just put a 1x on it. And years previous of 2012 its very possible having to design around a front derailleur could have prevented some designs. Just look at the specialized enduro and compare the suspension pivot design from 2010 and 2020.
1x has always been a compromise, reduced range or bigger gear gaps, often both. In years to come articles will be written about the genius marketing by SRAM to convince customers that less functionality was better.
I spin out on flat with 1x and like to pedal when going down hill at a lower cadence, so find 1x a compromised PITA. Heck I spin out on my 50/43-11/32, it's a tad hilly around here.
I'm stuck with it on the FS MTB because the excellent suspension is designed around a specific front ring size. But 1x only is pretty much a deal breaker on any other bike for me.
As for simplicity/reliability, front derailleurs tend to be fit and forget. Rear derailleurs are the where the complexity is and where problems usually occur.
You nailed it. And yup mt bikes are built around 1X....they really need a guide on the front sprocket/chain,and a special steel/alu chainring, and the huge cassette,and the wonky chainline............all basically hacks to make it work.....dont crash on that new 12 speed derailleur ,the price will Really Shock You for the good stuff.
@@NoBrakes23 Sorry, I didn't realise your anecdote represented all cyclists that ever existed.
Very interesting video! I struggled with how to achieve a large enough range on a 1x drop bar system and ended up with a 12 speed, 10-51 cassette, 32T ring with bar-end shifters for a range of 17-89 which I felt was pretty good but the compromises are increased wear on the single chainring and large jumps between the gears. The hardest part was finding a compatible crankset which ended up being the Praxis Alba with a Wolf Tooth Camo direct mount spider & chainring. I also haven't toured with it yet to see how practical it really is.
Love the Chanel! It’s become a drinking game for me as well. Every time you say supple I take a shot! Haha thanks and cheers!
Thanks, young man. One-by has never made sense to me: the "simplicity" seems to imply that I need to have either the brains of an Einstein or a the dexterity of Penn Jillette to manage that front derailleur (neither is the case), and the weight savings was never persuasive. Keep telling your truth; don't let the bike industry tell you what you like.
Amen!
Ability to have narrow-wide teeth (chain stays on), oval chainrings (better traction on climbs, more efficient pedal stroke), and greatly reduced chainslap are other strong arguments for 1x, depending on how often you rock singletrack
While I'm sure this will be taken out of context to assume that I am saying "2x and 3x bad" you've missed what is meant by calling it simplicity. It is the reduced mechanical complexity by lowering the number of moving parts (potentially increasing reliability, reducing repair times, etc, plus the weight gain which admittedly doesn't always matter much) - but not the amount of effort or thought it takes to switch gears - that is the reason for calling it simple no matter what it seems to imply. But if your bike is expensive, well-built, and light enough to begin with, then it does not matter what you do and it all comes down to your preference.
To be fair, I do like this particular meaning of “simplicity”: I haven’t had a 2x/3x in a while, but I’ve noted for myself that had I been riding a 3x, I would simply treat it like 3 sequential 1x systems: say, 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 2-4, 2-5, 2-6, 3-7, 3-8, 3-9, or the like, or else I would have to memorize exactly which combination is bigger/smaller than another, for all possible ones + memorize which ones are problematical cross-chaining-wise, because to me, on the road, a gear should only be higher or lower, with no other variables. I also prefer IGHs because I don’t have to pay attention to whether I’m pedaling or not
The bike, IMO, should disappear entirely from your attention when you use it, like your shirt or your phone does. If it doesn’t - it’s just bad.
P.S. my bike doesn’t have a front brake and a rear brake, it has THE brake, and then the thing you use for skids and emergencies. My left hand is my brake hand, and my right hand doesn’t even approach the lever 99% of the time
/rant
I'm in my mid 50s now and have seen all kinds of biking trends come and go. 1x was without a doubt the biggest solution in search of a problem I've ever seen. Is it "simpler"? Yes, it's simply a smaller gear range for more money. Is it lighter? Well, your wallet is definitely much lighter after you buy the industry's BS that you need to ditch your 2x or 3x system! I'm sure in another 10 years the big brands will be selling us on the "new" 3x front shifter!
1by didn’t come and go. If anything front derailleurs came and are now on their way out.
Being another 2x fan, it was refreshing to see this video. Thanks for posting and it was a bold move considering the dominance of 1x drivetrains. Microshift's 9-speed Advent drivetrain is a good option and you can use a Samox (hard to find) or a Dimension 28/44 crankset. On another note, I started using Paul 31.8 Thumbies on my drop bars on the flat section instead of bar ends and I will never look back.
Nice work, Russ, on trying and trying to make 1x work for you. You gave it the ol' college try and if you miss 1x, you could always get an old campus bike.