Growtac has some impressive engineering. I'm hoping to use their Equal brakes on a future build. And love that they're preserving/advancing mechanical braking AND shifting.
Thanks! Thinking about building an 80's bianchi from a frame I have. This is going to be a very helpful series I will join patron Thanks again. This is a great idea. There are many videos like old shovel but I think you are giving the most valuable info out there. So helpful finding my way through the parts morass.
I love the sound of friction shifting. Thanks for sharing your insights. Growtac's brakes are my favorite for disks. This makes me re-consider my flat bar decision on my recent build.
Been waiting for this one, Russ! Hope you continue with an extended trial with these. "All front shifters should be friction anyways." Without a doubt!
I love friction shifters, and I love the thumb paddle. I've been holding on to a campy group set that's about 15 years old and well worn because I'd hate to lose my thumb button.
I loooooove these, I was actually thinking of how to retrofit my ergo campis to some sort of micro-ratcheting with help of 3D printing, but now it seems that my prayers has been answered. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!
I agree with Russ, have 12 speed setup with friction shifter, you never miss gears, the derailleur will just stick to a gear, if it’s out then it’ll jump to the other gear, never any issues, my shifter doesn’t have ratchet either, which I do miss but it just all works.
Looks pretty cool, but a friction for the front and indexed for the back, especially with polished aluminum levers and housings over plastic would be top.
Absolutely stellar idea - quite keen to find out more as they become available on soil outside Japan. They definitely point a middle finger towards a lot of highly bespoke gear that apparently only works with its own matching groupset componentry!
I mean this is a game changer for sure…for all Of us who have drank the cool aid of “get a gravel bike, and two wheelsets” now get 4 wheelsets and friction shifters golden! Also wish you showed the front mech shifting
@@georgeforeman89 i did have two different wheelset with different inner rim width, tire size, and cassette. One was for normal day and the other one was bike packing purpose but had to mess with the b limit every time which wasn't that bad
@@professionalconch7108 that’s what I was wondering about- the derailleur adjustment every time you switch would be super annoying. But to each their own!
Plastic I could see doing away with for carbon or stainless, but why get rid of the phillips? Most people have a Phillips screw driver at home, and they come on a ton of multitools. Do you see them as a “cheaper” option? Kinda weird IMO, but you could always change them by going to the hardware store and buying some stainless hex head if that’s your thing.
Are the plastic pulleys subject to wear during friction shifting, meaning are they used as a friction pad/surface? If not, you're pretty much just winding shift cable around them so they should be quite durable.
@pathlesspedaled You mentioned stripping the screw heads more than once, if these shifters are from japan they probably do not use Phillips screws they are most likely "JIS" screws they look similar but if you use a JIS screwdriver you will be way less likely to strip the screw heads.
what a horrific standard, making something that looks identical to an already extant standard, but make it perform worse. Also, cruciform screw heads are idiotic anyway.
@@PathLessPedaledTVhex is also easy to strip though, especially the smaller diameters. Torx should be the way to go for small screws that need to be tightened hard imo.
JIS screws aren't a standard anymore btw. Companies like vessel don't market their Philips as JIS anymore because it doesn't exist, but they build them to meet the old standards
Next generation Modolo Morphos, kinda...? Really like the idea of modern friction brifters, and the Campy Ergopower classic concept is excellent, love those, I run 8 and 10 speed on some road bikes. I'd love to have something similar on my custom Frankenstein gravel builds! I learned to shift on friction and it becomes second nature, I think I'd pick back up just like I was riding a bike!😂
I am soooo down for this, I'm almost considering going directly to the Japanese source to try to get these now. My bar end shifters are past their life and desperately need replacing, WITH THESE!! I have another road bike with Campy, and I love the thumb control, these would be great on my 2012 Kona Sutra.
I'll be honest, I'm into the idea, but having gone back from Gevenalle levers to indexed "brifters" the most interesting feature with these is the adjustable pull ratio and possible future addition of different indexing plates that you showed. I was already considered a pair of Sword levers after your video showing they can work with dynasis rear mechs. All of a sudden there are more and more cross-compatible drop bar lever options on the horizon, I'm wondering if decision paralysis is the next problem rather than a lack of available choices...
There was a period in Campy front shifters where there were so many clicks you could treat it as friction. When they went to Quick Shift it went down to a Shimano-like three or so, primary positions and a trim position or two.
Folks, you're looking at rare manufacturer that openly stated on their website on this product that they're not out to make hot product that flies off the shelf, but they're here to make products that cyclists need and want. CEO even said if the company goes down because their product don't sell, so be it. They once sold "adoptor" to use Campy Ergo shifter on Shimano groupset (discontinued cuz the Equal Control Lever can cover that)
I used to race XC but I had an old Trek Aluminum road bike with downtube shifters. They were Ultegra SIS, but I more often used them in friction mode because I could shift silently; which was useful for criteriums. The only drawback was having to reach down. A friction shifter on the drops would be very useful.
These look cool, would like to try them. Only thing that puts me off is cable actuated brakes. I run 1x12 using Microshift bar ends with Shimano deore m6100 rear derailleur. Because of this, I get index plus friction if I want it, but at the same time can run whatever hoods I want. So I just picked up some cheap battered Shimano 105 hyro levers coz I only need the hydraulics to work, doesn't matter on the style, number of gears etc I know the con of this set up is bar ends aren't for everyone
Glad to see you review them! I generally prefer solutions that are so robust that they hardly ever fail or so simple that they can always be repaired. Brifters aren't that, but they provide a very convenient form factor that can't quite be replicated even with the IRD brake levers shown in 5:35 or the Gevenalle, so I understand their appeal. However, you just can't beat the simplicity and robustness of a one-by setup with a bar-end friction shifter, even if the ergonomics are slightly worse. Lastly, I wish the Growtac stopped using Phillips (or is it JIS??) screws.
Boomer here, yep, more gears, better shifting, just may not be the gear you want, but it's not noisy. Running 1x10 with a 2001 105 and a 1981 dia-comp bar-end lever.
I'm much more excited about this product announcement than most or all of your others. I don't know if we are among rare customers who wanted something like this for a long time. I hope not, and I hope this idea takes off. I've been thinking of going back to bar-end shifters, and maybe I don't have to. I think this could be improved aesthetically if the lever handles were aluminum with a silver color, as I don't care for black, and flat black even less.
Oh my lord this looks like the shifter of my dreams! Brifter format, friction shifting... Adjustable pulls!?! I'm actually glad it's not out in the US yet because my next two projects are flat bars and I don't wanna be tempted to change plans just to use these! I wonder what ratchet mechanism it could be using, if it's purportedly silent? Also the lever material looks like injection-molded ABS, the same stuff that heavy duty equipment cases are made of. It's super-durable but not so sure of it's long-term weather resistance. Anyway I'm glad other outfits are jumping into the shifter market to provide alternatives.
Love compatibility and my Old Man Mountain racks! Lever design reminds me of the old 8/9 speed Campy levers which were some of the best feeling ones I’ve used. Don’t like the new ones. I use Microshift on my 1X mtb set for 12sp index, but I love being able to switch to friction in the field if I damage something. Makes it able to use some of the gears till I can get it fixed. Can’t do that with pure index shifting.
This is really interesting! I like that it is future-proof. I hope that it is durable (and repairable). I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually replace some of those plastic parts with metal ones (like the pulleys). Also perhaps hex bolts in place of phillips head screws. I like the appearance, I think it looks really modern!
So happy you uploaded this Rus! This vid is gonna be a useful visual aid since the setup is so wonky. I'm surprised that people are concerned with the plastic pulley, Sram has used plastic pulleys for years and I have never had one fail. I guess time will tell but I'm sold on these either way.
I think we have to be honest that this is going to be a niche product. I have friction and indexed shifters and love them for different reasons. If I loved drops, I’d be interested. I have tried to help my partner, who loves cycling but NOT wrenching, to properly use friction shifting and a 2x system to no avail. Indexed 1X is a game-changer and just works for her. She never has to hear the words “trim” or “cross-chained” ever again.
Not for me - at least not at the moment - but I'm very happy that they exist! One small thing I wanted to mention: are you sure those Phillips head screws aren't actually JIS? Keep up the great work, we really appreciate it!
I'm hoping to get one to try out. It's interesting that I had thought of such a system some 20 years ago and thought it would be pretty cool. Yes, these are similar to the Campagnolo shifters. All of my bikes with integrated shifters on curly bars have Campagnolo style shifters (the LTwoo shifters on my gravel bike being the only non-Campagnolo shifters but they have the same paddle and thumb button configuration). I have also heard that more gears on the back mean better shifting with friction so I'll be building a neo-retro 1993 Specialized Allez Pro with downtube shifters in friction mode with 10 or 11 speeds soon. I have all of the parts so it's a simple matter of assembling it.
Very cool design and great video! I'm a current super-fan of the Gevenalle levers and these looks just a bit too fiddly and plastically to change my preference. But I love how modern these look and the massive compatibility. Hopefully some OEMS start picking them up too!
I mainly use friction but also have Campag Chorus 11 which I instinctively use friction style at times with a big sweep to cruise across the sprocket range, as you can do with Campag....
This is pretty much exactly what campag ultrashift did when the g-springs went- the clicks went away but the shifting kept working fine as friction shifters.
honestly, I think that was a high water mark. I've not found anything since that era of campy levers to properly work with my hands, or be particularly reliable. Especially once shimano sram and campy kind of converged, it was kind of a mediocre place. But most people don't mind it so I feel stuck.
That sounds like a solution to put a racing / gravel handle bar on a folding bike. Since folding bikes often use mountain bike series it is not possible to find a solution without changing almost everything. At least for my Tern Verge X11 that is the case. Do they have or will offer a version for hydrolic breaks? Thank you for another great video. Greetings 🙂
Pretty sure Ronnie Romance ran friction 12spd once. I always thought more gears meant easier friction shifting, I just haven't upgraded yet because my 8spd cassette seems to be immortal.
I feel like this would be a pretty promising alternate way for shifting CVT internal gear hubs for the ultimate low maintance drop bar set up with basically unlimited steps to get the perfect cadence. Don't have to worry about indexing and no longer stuck to only gripshifts.
The thing I am most excited about these is that supposed extra shift button. On their website, it seemed to me like they can be used for actuating a dropper post and for actuating suspension lockout. Which I am very interested in on a xc bike convertered to a gravel bike!
Russ made an interesting point that the more gears in the cassette it makes the friction shifting easier. I can totally believe that! I am still mostly on 9-speed drivetrain (and a few 8- and 10-speed) mostly because I have a bevy of high quality hubs and am unwilling to switch to 11-speed specific hubs (and freehub bodies).
I’m not sure if it’s been said, but FYI, Japan has their own version of fastener standards called Japanese Industrial, or JIS for short. I’d highly recommend using a JIS “Phillips” bit or driver for things like this as the design is different enough that it can cause fasteners to get stripped out. It may not matter as much for smaller fasteners like the one on the shifter, but I figured I’d pass it on anyways.
This is exciting. I've been wanting to build a steel "retro-esque" road bike for some big rides next year and this might be the way to do it. I get so tired of indexed front derailleurs and love friction shifting, but appreciate being able to keep my hands on the bars and not having stray shift cables all over the place... Maybe i missed it, but is it realistic to hit the little thumb lever while still in the drops? And ditto on the "i want a silver version" 🤣
I'm a boomer and at first noticing that it is plastic rather than aluminum, I'm thinking na, not for me. But I have SunTour bar end shifters and while they are good, they are not perfect, at least for me. I spend most of my time on the hoods, so this does have my attention. I also agree that with modern derailleurs hitting the gear, rather than in between, is easier. The plastic is reinforced with fiber so it should be strong, but it may not look great on an old '80's bike. Ah, what do I care. When I'm riding I don't see it and if I ride more that is the point.
Really looking forward to seeing future improvements with regards to durability and a more streamlined design. Not sure I'd try friction at the moment but index shifters that have better compatibility and cost less than Shimano would be amazing.
Enjoyed the unedited shifting footage at the end. Interested to keep up with their product but probably won’t be jumping on that myself with how involved the install is. Thanks for sharing
I would LOVE throwing these on my 1992 Performance Vitesse Road Bike with 7 speed Suntour GPX setup that of course is downtube shifting now, but would be a really awesome neo-retro experience! And as someone who has built the friction only shifting skill for years, this looks like a breeze to use!
Great video, especially about the installation process! I totally agree on the aspect of flimsy plastic parts one first has to break off (like in old model building sets). Especially since Equal are stressing the compatibility and sustainability: At that price point they should rather go higher but offer the data files for 3D printing (opposed to ordering spares). There is a link to the presentation of the product range (adjustable road pedals, easily maintainable hubs,...) At least with the option of the additional lever and a second shift cable they are stressing the fact of its versatility, i.e. shift also internal Gear hubs (ROHLOFF !? PINION?! I don't know - they should tell more soon), dropper post actuation, paddle shift mode, i.e. left lever shifting up the RD, the other one shifting down. Suspension fork actuation. ... Swapping left and right lever control for FD and RD actuation. .... What I don't get is the option of not only removing single levers but ALL of them to create pure brake levers - at that higher price point?! (Well, maybe FOR 1X setups or if you like the look and ergonomics so much) But this is only said in the introduction to the 2023 Taipei Cycle Show, what will come in the future we will have to see. growtac.com/en/2023/03/20/equal2023-taipei/
The shifters sound very interesting, there's no doubt about that.What I can see is that a percentage of people may not want to take the time to set up everything initially.The other thing that I can see is the pulley issue, spare pulley's may get misplaced,broken or whatever. For folks touring on their bike, it may be another part to add to the onboard tool collection. Lastly, it may cost a bit of money, but perhaps offering "kits" with a pulley already installed might be a great option for some folks.
The big lever to shift travels too much to shift. I had a micronew 8s shifter (similar to shimano claris), in long rides the hand fadigue moving a lever with such long travel become evident. But is a great design. Pricewise I think it will be similar to a entry level hydro STI
I'm weird but my first thought is replacement hood availability. I've thought the same for the Microshift Sword levers i.e. how long would I be able to get replacements. Based on what looks like fairly thin/flimsy material, it appears they might be easy to wear and possibly tear.
I hadn't seen your brake lever friction shifter, very nice! I've been dreaming of Paul's mechanical break setup, but I'd want it on all of my bike$$$. I need to figure out top bar brakes for my gravel bike. When I get into heavy stuff I go into mtb mode and reach for brakes that aren't there. LOL PS I just let my LBS bleed my brakes...
Looks cool and I like the wide compatibility. I’d like to see a similar indexed mechanical brifter with mechanical brakes that handles a large cassette (up to 48-50). Built a bike up with a similar set up and was having a very hard time finding compatible shifters/derailleurs and cassettes. Microshift makes a groupset like that but the cranksets aren’t usually available, and the cassette is HG freehub compatible so if your wheelset had an XD or XDR freehub you need an adapter. Anyway I love the equal mechanical disc brake calipers and have them on two of my bikes so likely will be interested in trying these after a few iterations.
This seems very interesting!!! Serviceability, compatibility, etc is all great in my book! That said, I tend to fall more into the "go fast" set of riders, and part of me is a little worried a lack of indexing would just frustrate me. I loved my first road bike's downtube shifters and I still miss them, but they were still indexed. So if they do release an indexed version with swappable plates for different cassettes, I'm in!! Especially if they release a version with polished metal levers! I'd totally build up a retro franken road bike with all my parts been stuff haha! :D
Want. Love. The brake lever needs to be drillium though not plastic. I hope this takes off I'll have two please to be going on with. Thank you for covering this .
I've had too much coffee so I'm making to many posts, but I'm really excited about the idea of these taking off, as they are so rebuildable, and so perfectly suited to the whole hacky world of bikepacking/gravel/touring/neo-retro builds that aftermarket upgrades and refinements would be certain to materialize after some time.
I agree with the concept: if you haven't tried friction on ramped-type cassette you don't know how good it is. If one had an old bike set-up friction and an old freewheel they could compare. Great review - makes me pause and think would I want this? Idea for disscusion: trendsetter vs hipster (one being fashion-based, other - against fashion) vs nerd (or geek so unaware of fashion?) - none of them considered pejotatively. So seeking understanding which am I? - I settled on geek as my identity.
I have an E-bike with a 8 speed Tourney derailleur fitted. I also have Osteoporosis and found the constant trigger pulls hard on my wrist, so I changed to friction shifting and can now use my entire hand to shift rather than putting all the stress on the thumb/wrist area. Working well, but what really suprised me was just how well friction shifting works with modern equipment. I had down tube friction shifting on my road bikes in the Seventies and eighties, and it wasn't nearly so nice and I was constantly trimming. But I find it rare that I have to trim with the modern eight speed.
I recently ordered some Growtac brakes to the bike shop. I’m a bit hesitant to buy these levers even though I love the idea. They seem to be at an early stage of development which is understandble. Less plastic and easier installation would be ace.
The shifting hand motions required look a lot like when you use the Gevenalle-style shifter. So I would prefer the simpler solution. But 100% true that friction shifting gets easier with more gears.
I have a Campy Veloce 9spd brifter on one of my bikes which converted itself to friction ages ago when something probably broke inside it. I hardly even noticed. You just get used to knowing how far to push the lever. However I think we might as well have things on our bikes that are shiny and fun to use. These look a bit plasticky to me. And I don't really think we ever needed brifters with all the complexity. A lever on the end of the bar or on the downtube was always perfectly all right!
Crazy question -- I have two sets of wheels, one an 11 sp cassette, and one with a single cog from a 12sp cassette (if that matters). Can I set the limit screws on the derailleur so I can use it as a chain tensioner on the single speed wheel, and simply re-adjust those screws to use the 11sp wheel?
Russ can you make a review of the IRD shifter you used for illustration with the UNO shifter mounted? I appreciate Growtac for giving us this amazing option, but the fact that is does not have a ratchet system is a dealbreaker for me. Thanks
I don't think it's that much, at least if you aren't trying to change loads of gears at a time. It'll also change depending on which derailleurs you use too.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Growtac has some impressive engineering. I'm hoping to use their Equal brakes on a future build. And love that they're preserving/advancing mechanical braking AND shifting.
Thanks! Thinking about building an 80's bianchi from a frame I have. This is going to be a very helpful series I will join patron Thanks again. This is a great idea. There are many videos like old shovel but I think you are giving the most valuable info out there. So helpful finding my way through the parts morass.
Cool stuff Russ. Fun to see non E-shifting innovations! Thanks for taking the time to install and test.
I love the sound of friction shifting. Thanks for sharing your insights. Growtac's brakes are my favorite for disks. This makes me re-consider my flat bar decision on my recent build.
Been waiting for this one, Russ! Hope you continue with an extended trial with these. "All front shifters should be friction anyways." Without a doubt!
These look like my old Campy 10s brifters...but in friction! Best bike news I've heard all year! Thanks shining a light on this 👍
I love friction shifters, and I love the thumb paddle. I've been holding on to a campy group set that's about 15 years old and well worn because I'd hate to lose my thumb button.
I will absolutely buy these.
I loooooove these, I was actually thinking of how to retrofit my ergo campis to some sort of micro-ratcheting with help of 3D printing, but now it seems that my prayers has been answered. SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!
I agree with Russ, have 12 speed setup with friction shifter, you never miss gears, the derailleur will just stick to a gear, if it’s out then it’ll jump to the other gear, never any issues, my shifter doesn’t have ratchet either, which I do miss but it just all works.
Looks pretty cool, but a friction for the front and indexed for the back, especially with polished aluminum levers and housings over plastic would be top.
Second that!
Absolutely stellar idea - quite keen to find out more as they become available on soil outside Japan. They definitely point a middle finger towards a lot of highly bespoke gear that apparently only works with its own matching groupset componentry!
I mean this is a game changer for sure…for all
Of us who have drank the cool aid of “get a gravel bike, and two wheelsets” now get 4 wheelsets and friction shifters golden! Also wish you showed the front mech shifting
You have 2 wheelsets with different cassettes?
@@georgeforeman89650 with big cassette 700 with medium cassette
@@georgeforeman89 i did have two different wheelset with different inner rim width, tire size, and cassette. One was for normal day and the other one was bike packing purpose but had to mess with the b limit every time which wasn't that bad
@@professionalconch7108 that’s what I was wondering about- the derailleur adjustment every time you switch would be super annoying. But to each their own!
I love my old campag thumb shifters, glad they did use that concept
Further iterations should do away with the phillips head and plastic pulleys. I'd be willing to pay more for a stainless steel/alumnium pulley
I'm wondering if the pulleys are plastic due to it still being a preview version, I agree metal would make way more sense.
CAD files would be good so you could 3D print or machine your own.
@@FreeRadicalX Nah they would have had to pay to get the molds done, that'd just be a waste.
Plastic I could see doing away with for carbon or stainless, but why get rid of the phillips? Most people have a Phillips screw driver at home, and they come on a ton of multitools. Do you see them as a “cheaper” option? Kinda weird IMO, but you could always change them by going to the hardware store and buying some stainless hex head if that’s your thing.
Are the plastic pulleys subject to wear during friction shifting, meaning are they used as a friction pad/surface? If not, you're pretty much just winding shift cable around them so they should be quite durable.
The #peakmechanical episode I’ve been waiting for! Thanks Russ
Actually really awesome. I’m glad someone did it.
Growtac; I just Got the Equal disc brakes and love them! Paired with paul canti levers, they deliver big time!
@pathlesspedaled You mentioned stripping the screw heads more than once, if these shifters are from japan they probably do not use Phillips screws they are most likely "JIS" screws they look similar but if you use a JIS screwdriver you will be way less likely to strip the screw heads.
A good argument for using hex or torx. FWIW it says Philips and not jis in the manual.
@@PathLessPedaledTV That's really odd!
what a horrific standard, making something that looks identical to an already extant standard, but make it perform worse. Also, cruciform screw heads are idiotic anyway.
@@PathLessPedaledTVhex is also easy to strip though, especially the smaller diameters. Torx should be the way to go for small screws that need to be tightened hard imo.
JIS screws aren't a standard anymore btw. Companies like vessel don't market their Philips as JIS anymore because it doesn't exist, but they build them to meet the old standards
Best bicycle YT channel ever.
Next generation Modolo Morphos, kinda...? Really like the idea of modern friction brifters, and the Campy Ergopower classic concept is excellent, love those, I run 8 and 10 speed on some road bikes. I'd love to have something similar on my custom Frankenstein gravel builds! I learned to shift on friction and it becomes second nature, I think I'd pick back up just like I was riding a bike!😂
Sounds off-topic but you can build a 28/40T crankset with a 104 & 64 BCD crankset. :)
That take on modern drive trains and friction shifters matches my experience. And I'm a boomer (!).
I am soooo down for this, I'm almost considering going directly to the Japanese source to try to get these now. My bar end shifters are past their life and desperately need replacing, WITH THESE!! I have another road bike with Campy, and I love the thumb control, these would be great on my 2012 Kona Sutra.
I'll be honest, I'm into the idea, but having gone back from Gevenalle levers to indexed "brifters" the most interesting feature with these is the adjustable pull ratio and possible future addition of different indexing plates that you showed.
I was already considered a pair of Sword levers after your video showing they can work with dynasis rear mechs.
All of a sudden there are more and more cross-compatible drop bar lever options on the horizon, I'm wondering if decision paralysis is the next problem rather than a lack of available choices...
100% agree about more gears being even better with friction. Even going from 8 speed friction to 10 speed friction was a noticeable improvement.
So cool! Talking about friction shifters, it would be interesting to see how you shift during climbs etc. I am new to friction.
Absolutely fantastic idea and i see it blossoming into something really nice in the future
"All front derailleurs should be friction shifting, anyway." This.
There was a period in Campy front shifters where there were so many clicks you could treat it as friction. When they went to Quick Shift it went down to a Shimano-like three or so, primary positions and a trim position or two.
Folks, you're looking at rare manufacturer that openly stated on their website on this product that they're not out to make hot product that flies off the shelf, but they're here to make products that cyclists need and want. CEO even said if the company goes down because their product don't sell, so be it. They once sold "adoptor" to use Campy Ergo shifter on Shimano groupset (discontinued cuz the Equal Control Lever can cover that)
Really impressed by this Russ. Yes, they're not perfect, but its early in the product development cycle. These can only get better.
I used to race XC but I had an old Trek Aluminum road bike with downtube shifters. They were Ultegra SIS, but I more often used them in friction mode because I could shift silently; which was useful for criteriums. The only drawback was having to reach down. A friction shifter on the drops would be very useful.
These look cool, would like to try them. Only thing that puts me off is cable actuated brakes. I run 1x12 using Microshift bar ends with Shimano deore m6100 rear derailleur. Because of this, I get index plus friction if I want it, but at the same time can run whatever hoods I want. So I just picked up some cheap battered Shimano 105 hyro levers coz I only need the hydraulics to work, doesn't matter on the style, number of gears etc
I know the con of this set up is bar ends aren't for everyone
Glad to see you review them! I generally prefer solutions that are so robust that they hardly ever fail or so simple that they can always be repaired. Brifters aren't that, but they provide a very convenient form factor that can't quite be replicated even with the IRD brake levers shown in 5:35 or the Gevenalle, so I understand their appeal.
However, you just can't beat the simplicity and robustness of a one-by setup with a bar-end friction shifter, even if the ergonomics are slightly worse.
Lastly, I wish the Growtac stopped using Phillips (or is it JIS??) screws.
Boomer here, yep, more gears, better shifting, just may not be the gear you want, but it's not noisy. Running 1x10 with a 2001 105 and a 1981 dia-comp bar-end lever.
I'm much more excited about this product announcement than most or all of your others. I don't know if we are among rare customers who wanted something like this for a long time. I hope not, and I hope this idea takes off. I've been thinking of going back to bar-end shifters, and maybe I don't have to. I think this could be improved aesthetically if the lever handles were aluminum with a silver color, as I don't care for black, and flat black even less.
Oh my lord this looks like the shifter of my dreams! Brifter format, friction shifting... Adjustable pulls!?! I'm actually glad it's not out in the US yet because my next two projects are flat bars and I don't wanna be tempted to change plans just to use these! I wonder what ratchet mechanism it could be using, if it's purportedly silent? Also the lever material looks like injection-molded ABS, the same stuff that heavy duty equipment cases are made of. It's super-durable but not so sure of it's long-term weather resistance. Anyway I'm glad other outfits are jumping into the shifter market to provide alternatives.
Love compatibility and my Old Man Mountain racks! Lever design reminds me of the old 8/9 speed Campy levers which were some of the best feeling ones I’ve used. Don’t like the new ones. I use Microshift on my 1X mtb set for 12sp index, but I love being able to switch to friction in the field if I damage something. Makes it able to use some of the gears till I can get it fixed. Can’t do that with pure index shifting.
This is really interesting! I like that it is future-proof. I hope that it is durable (and repairable). I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually replace some of those plastic parts with metal ones (like the pulleys). Also perhaps hex bolts in place of phillips head screws. I like the appearance, I think it looks really modern!
So happy you uploaded this Rus! This vid is gonna be a useful visual aid since the setup is so wonky. I'm surprised that people are concerned with the plastic pulley, Sram has used plastic pulleys for years and I have never had one fail. I guess time will tell but I'm sold on these either way.
that's pretty neat. friction shifting on modern cassettes is underrated.
I think we have to be honest that this is going to be a niche product.
I have friction and indexed shifters and love them for different reasons. If I loved drops, I’d be interested.
I have tried to help my partner, who loves cycling but NOT wrenching, to properly use friction shifting and a 2x system to no avail. Indexed 1X is a game-changer and just works for her. She never has to hear the words “trim” or “cross-chained” ever again.
Fantastic insights into very interesting aspects that no one else really covers. 👍
Need a silver ratcheted version!
Not for me - at least not at the moment - but I'm very happy that they exist!
One small thing I wanted to mention: are you sure those Phillips head screws aren't actually JIS?
Keep up the great work, we really appreciate it!
I'm hoping to get one to try out. It's interesting that I had thought of such a system some 20 years ago and thought it would be pretty cool. Yes, these are similar to the Campagnolo shifters. All of my bikes with integrated shifters on curly bars have Campagnolo style shifters (the LTwoo shifters on my gravel bike being the only non-Campagnolo shifters but they have the same paddle and thumb button configuration). I have also heard that more gears on the back mean better shifting with friction so I'll be building a neo-retro 1993 Specialized Allez Pro with downtube shifters in friction mode with 10 or 11 speeds soon. I have all of the parts so it's a simple matter of assembling it.
Old ergos on all mine though the high mileage bikes use friction for the rear instead of clicky. (Easier to mix and match parts)
Make them from shiny Metals please
I'm not huge on the shape of the levers and lever bodies, but i adore the concept! Been wanting to put my brain to doing the exact same thing.
Very cool design and great video!
I'm a current super-fan of the Gevenalle levers and these looks just a bit too fiddly and plastically to change my preference. But I love how modern these look and the massive compatibility. Hopefully some OEMS start picking them up too!
I mainly use friction but also have Campag Chorus 11 which I instinctively use friction style at times with a big sweep to cruise across the sprocket range, as you can do with Campag....
This is pretty much exactly what campag ultrashift did when the g-springs went- the clicks went away but the shifting kept working fine as friction shifters.
honestly, I think that was a high water mark. I've not found anything since that era of campy levers to properly work with my hands, or be particularly reliable. Especially once shimano sram and campy kind of converged, it was kind of a mediocre place. But most people don't mind it so I feel stuck.
@@weatheranddarkness they still make them
Seeing a local brand popping up randomly in my recommendation isn't something i see everyday. Seems like Growtac is doing well!!
That sounds like a solution to put a racing / gravel handle bar on a folding bike. Since folding bikes often use mountain bike series it is not possible to find a solution without changing almost everything. At least for my Tern Verge X11 that is the case.
Do they have or will offer a version for hydrolic breaks?
Thank you for another great video. Greetings 🙂
Pretty sure Ronnie Romance ran friction 12spd once. I always thought more gears meant easier friction shifting, I just haven't upgraded yet because my 8spd cassette seems to be immortal.
8sp was a pretty good spot for overall wear.
I want them, Thanks Russ. Do you have a video reviewing this Frame? I'd luv to get the skinny on those rear dropout.
That’s his custom Sklar
.... also my Simplex/Huret friction levers are all I have so never hear or feel any ratcheting anyway....
I bet that would be a lot of fun with a rapid rise rear derailleur.
Awesome video, Russ! The silence is definitely something to get used to lol.
I feel like this would be a pretty promising alternate way for shifting CVT internal gear hubs for the ultimate low maintance drop bar set up with basically unlimited steps to get the perfect cadence. Don't have to worry about indexing and no longer stuck to only gripshifts.
I think Shimano Enviolo internal gear hub requires 2 cables to pull in both directions.
The thing I am most excited about these is that supposed extra shift button. On their website, it seemed to me like they can be used for actuating a dropper post and for actuating suspension lockout. Which I am very interested in on a xc bike convertered to a gravel bike!
Russ made an interesting point that the more gears in the cassette it makes the friction shifting easier. I can totally believe that! I am still mostly on 9-speed drivetrain (and a few 8- and 10-speed) mostly because I have a bevy of high quality hubs and am unwilling to switch to 11-speed specific hubs (and freehub bodies).
Having had a bar end go 4" into my knee I'm very excited about these levers.
ya, bar end shifters are not a good solution to the problem.
I’m not sure if it’s been said, but FYI, Japan has their own version of fastener standards called Japanese Industrial, or JIS for short. I’d highly recommend using a JIS “Phillips” bit or driver for things like this as the design is different enough that it can cause fasteners to get stripped out. It may not matter as much for smaller fasteners like the one on the shifter, but I figured I’d pass it on anyways.
While I like my hydraulic GRX 810 2x11 setup just fine, your videos always make me want to build a fully mechanical bike… 😁
This is exciting. I've been wanting to build a steel "retro-esque" road bike for some big rides next year and this might be the way to do it. I get so tired of indexed front derailleurs and love friction shifting, but appreciate being able to keep my hands on the bars and not having stray shift cables all over the place...
Maybe i missed it, but is it realistic to hit the little thumb lever while still in the drops?
And ditto on the "i want a silver version" 🤣
Looks like the thumb lever position is just about analogous to the Campy ergo. So should be pretty easy to reach from the drops.
I'm a boomer and at first noticing that it is plastic rather than aluminum, I'm thinking na, not for me. But I have SunTour bar end shifters and while they are good, they are not perfect, at least for me. I spend most of my time on the hoods, so this does have my attention. I also agree that with modern derailleurs hitting the gear, rather than in between, is easier. The plastic is reinforced with fiber so it should be strong, but it may not look great on an old '80's bike. Ah, what do I care. When I'm riding I don't see it and if I ride more that is the point.
Really looking forward to seeing future improvements with regards to durability and a more streamlined design. Not sure I'd try friction at the moment but index shifters that have better compatibility and cost less than Shimano would be amazing.
Enjoyed the unedited shifting footage at the end. Interested to keep up with their product but probably won’t be jumping on that myself with how involved the install is. Thanks for sharing
Love friction shifting, love bar end shifters, simplicity. Love the channel, thank you Russ.
I have one of the best friction shifting groups of all time, Suntour Superbe Pro. Thank God for modern Dura Ace 9100. Best ever
I love that silence, but also the idea of the index plates!
I would LOVE throwing these on my 1992 Performance Vitesse Road Bike with 7 speed Suntour GPX setup that of course is downtube shifting now, but would be a really awesome neo-retro experience! And as someone who has built the friction only shifting skill for years, this looks like a breeze to use!
What a fantistic review. GREAT WORK!
Great video, especially about the installation process!
I totally agree on the aspect of flimsy plastic parts one first has to break off (like in old model building sets).
Especially since Equal are stressing the compatibility and sustainability:
At that price point they should rather go higher but offer the data files for 3D printing (opposed to ordering spares).
There is a link to the presentation of the product range (adjustable road pedals, easily maintainable hubs,...)
At least with the option of the additional lever and a second shift cable they are stressing the fact of its versatility, i.e. shift also internal Gear hubs (ROHLOFF !? PINION?! I don't know - they should tell more soon), dropper post actuation, paddle shift mode, i.e. left lever shifting up the RD, the other one shifting down.
Suspension fork actuation.
...
Swapping left and right lever control for FD and RD actuation.
....
What I don't get is the option of not only removing single levers but ALL of them to create pure brake levers - at that higher price point?! (Well, maybe FOR 1X setups or if you like the look and ergonomics so much)
But this is only said in the introduction to the 2023 Taipei Cycle Show, what will come in the future we will have to see.
growtac.com/en/2023/03/20/equal2023-taipei/
The shifters sound very interesting, there's no doubt about that.What I can see is that a percentage of people may not want to take the time to set up everything initially.The other thing that I can see is the pulley issue, spare pulley's may get misplaced,broken or whatever. For folks touring on their bike, it may be another part to add to the onboard tool collection. Lastly, it may cost a bit of money, but perhaps offering "kits" with a pulley already installed might be a great option for some folks.
I feel it's only a matter of time before Shimano brings back the Ultegra and 105 mechanical rim brake options in 11 and the newer 12 speed..
Nice take on to the market of shifters... a bold one too. But I still prefer classic friction shifters with much less parts.
The big lever to shift travels too much to shift. I had a micronew 8s shifter (similar to shimano claris), in long rides the hand fadigue moving a lever with such long travel become evident.
But is a great design. Pricewise I think it will be similar to a entry level hydro STI
User adjustable index shifting would be amazing.
I'm weird but my first thought is replacement hood availability. I've thought the same for the Microshift Sword levers i.e. how long would I be able to get replacements. Based on what looks like fairly thin/flimsy material, it appears they might be easy to wear and possibly tear.
I hadn't seen your brake lever friction shifter, very nice! I've been dreaming of Paul's mechanical break setup, but I'd want it on all of my bike$$$. I need to figure out top bar brakes for my gravel bike. When I get into heavy stuff I go into mtb mode and reach for brakes that aren't there. LOL
PS I just let my LBS bleed my brakes...
I think there is a lot of potential here. After browsing their site, I love the idea of “build your own bicycle” or in this case; drivetrain.
With the index plates it seems like a modern take on the Modolo Morphos levers but hopefully these work better.
Looks cool and I like the wide compatibility. I’d like to see a similar indexed mechanical brifter with mechanical brakes that handles a large cassette (up to 48-50). Built a bike up with a similar set up and was having a very hard time finding compatible shifters/derailleurs and cassettes. Microshift makes a groupset like that but the cranksets aren’t usually available, and the cassette is HG freehub compatible so if your wheelset had an XD or XDR freehub you need an adapter. Anyway I love the equal mechanical disc brake calipers and have them on two of my bikes so likely will be interested in trying these after a few iterations.
Looks great. Lmk when the index version arrives.
This seems very interesting!!! Serviceability, compatibility, etc is all great in my book! That said, I tend to fall more into the "go fast" set of riders, and part of me is a little worried a lack of indexing would just frustrate me. I loved my first road bike's downtube shifters and I still miss them, but they were still indexed. So if they do release an indexed version with swappable plates for different cassettes, I'm in!! Especially if they release a version with polished metal levers! I'd totally build up a retro franken road bike with all my parts been stuff haha! :D
Want. Love. The brake lever needs to be drillium though not plastic. I hope this takes off I'll have two please to be going on with. Thank you for covering this .
I've had too much coffee so I'm making to many posts, but I'm really excited about the idea of these taking off, as they are so rebuildable, and so perfectly suited to the whole hacky world of bikepacking/gravel/touring/neo-retro builds that aftermarket upgrades and refinements would be certain to materialize after some time.
I agree with the concept: if you haven't tried friction on ramped-type cassette you don't know how good it is.
If one had an old bike set-up friction and an old freewheel they could compare.
Great review - makes me pause and think would I want this?
Idea for disscusion: trendsetter vs hipster (one being fashion-based, other - against fashion) vs nerd (or geek so unaware of fashion?) - none of them considered pejotatively. So seeking understanding which am I? - I settled on geek as my identity.
These are really nice. I can see this working really nice 1x
I have an E-bike with a 8 speed Tourney derailleur fitted. I also have Osteoporosis and found the constant trigger pulls hard on my wrist, so I changed to friction shifting and can now use my entire hand to shift rather than putting all the stress on the thumb/wrist area. Working well, but what really suprised me was just how well friction shifting works with modern equipment. I had down tube friction shifting on my road bikes in the Seventies and eighties, and it wasn't nearly so nice and I was constantly trimming. But I find it rare that I have to trim with the modern eight speed.
Oh yeah those tourney shifters are rough
Interesting. Would like to see you review a rotating grip shift though i know you kant fit it to a drop bar... still.
I recently ordered some Growtac brakes to the bike shop. I’m a bit hesitant to buy these levers even though I love the idea. They seem to be at an early stage of development which is understandble. Less plastic and easier installation would be ace.
The shifting hand motions required look a lot like when you use the Gevenalle-style shifter. So I would prefer the simpler solution. But 100% true that friction shifting gets easier with more gears.
Is that the uno mounted on a brake lever? Where do I snag one of those? Looks like the Gavenalle shifters i use now…
From the Soma fab store.
Woah that's a really cool shifter!
Those look excellent, I have growtac calipers and they are superb. tho I doubt I will change from the uno shifter any time soon
Looking forward to that Soma Fog Cutter review!!
I have a Campy Veloce 9spd brifter on one of my bikes which converted itself to friction ages ago when something probably broke inside it. I hardly even noticed. You just get used to knowing how far to push the lever. However I think we might as well have things on our bikes that are shiny and fun to use. These look a bit plasticky to me. And I don't really think we ever needed brifters with all the complexity. A lever on the end of the bar or on the downtube was always perfectly all right!
Crazy question -- I have two sets of wheels, one an 11 sp cassette, and one with a single cog from a 12sp cassette (if that matters). Can I set the limit screws on the derailleur so I can use it as a chain tensioner on the single speed wheel, and simply re-adjust those screws to use the 11sp wheel?
Russ can you make a review of the IRD shifter you used for illustration with the UNO shifter mounted? I appreciate Growtac for giving us this amazing option, but the fact that is does not have a ratchet system is a dealbreaker for me. Thanks
Man that throw! Don't think my gnarled old hands could handle that after a couple of hours on the road.
I don't think it's that much, at least if you aren't trying to change loads of gears at a time. It'll also change depending on which derailleurs you use too.
Used friction shifters when I was a kid, I am in no hurry to go back, even though I was good at using them.